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Italy: Army Trieste can retreat to Tyrolia or Venice or Vienna
Message from Observer to Observer
--- Gregory A Greenman wrote:
> Austria
>
> He's between a rock and a hard place. While he's a better player
> than his predecessor, he still seems to lack a plan that will get
> him out of his current predicament.
I'd agree with that. I'm not sure why he pushed so hard for Greece.
If he wants to stop Turkey rolling over him, he needed to offer
something up, after all. Asking Italy to move into Albania was good,
though, since it gives Turkey more to worry about and gives him
possible cooperation with Italy in that field.
> England
>
> I enjoyed reading Italy's comment to England today:
>
> "Well, as long as we're speaking frankly, if you decide to start
> supporting Russia, then you're going to likely face France and
> Germany teaming up to eliminate you (and I'll be forced to help)."
>
> England seems to suffer from myopia. He wants to get his revenge on
> Germany. He can't see beyond that.
How people can get so upset about a stab in 1901 never ceases to
amaze me. It's not like there's any really clear evidence (from
England's point of view) that Germany ever actually intended to help
attack France.
> France
I think we all agree that France is doing a fantastic job. He'll be
able to walk into England if he chooses, and given Russia's hit on
Germany, he may well choose to do so, in order to replace the
unreliable English fleets with more reliable French ones.
> > Germany
Well, Russia's move into Baltic cetrtainly puts the pressure on
Germany. I don't think France will give Russia support into Munich,
but Boh will quite likely be available for anti-German moves.
Leaving Denmark open was not a good move for Germany.
> > Italy
Very disappointing after such a good start. He just hasn't been
getting in people's ears enough, and hasn't been schmoozing enough
when he does.
>
> Russia
>
>
> Possibly well on the way to a fast solo. If he can just keep AIT at
> each other's throats and EG at each other's throats, there's
> nothing to stop him.
Well, there's France to stop him. That's it, really.
> Turkey
>
>
> I think that Turkey really is in quite a good position here. [He
> can [now] turn around and ally with Italy (if they can patch up
> their differences). If that happens, a stab of Russia's lightly
> defended underbelly will turn the game upside down.
Actually, given Austria's turnaround, he may not even need to patch
things up with Italy. Italy just nosedived.
Message from Observer to Observer
The following commentators poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: The Juggernaut: It looks like RT have
committed to the Juggernaut. Many of
the remaining players will try to break
them up. What is the most likely
outcome?
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Russia will stab Turkey by midgame, 4 votes, 26.67%
- Turkey will stab Russia by midgame, 5 votes, 33.33%
- RT will likely last till the endgame, 6 votes, 40.00%
For more information about this group, please visit
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Message from Observer to Observer
The following commentators poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Name the powers most likely to be "in
it" at the end. Not necessarily
predicting a draw, but the powers that
will still be major players during the
endgame. You may vote for one or more
powers in this poll.
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Austria, 0 votes, 0.00%
- England, 0 votes, 0.00%
- France, 15 votes, 31.25%
- Italy, 5 votes, 10.42%
- Germany, 2 votes, 4.17%
- Russia, 16 votes, 33.33%
- Turkey, 10 votes, 20.83%
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Message from Observer to Observer
> Movement results for Spring of 1903. (comments.008)
>
> Austria: Army Serbia SUPPORT Fleet Albania -> Trieste.
> Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Fleet Albania -> Trieste.
> Austria: Fleet Albania -> Trieste.
Good choice here from Austria. He could have taken Greece with
Italian assistance, but RT would have slaughtered him in return.
The risk of an RT stab in Fall is high, though.
> England: Army Yorkshire -> London.
> England: Fleet Edinburgh -> Norwegian Sea.
> England: Fleet English Channel -> North Sea. (*bounce*)
Move to Norwegian opens up possibilities for FG cooperation against
Russia, though that would leave Edinburgh vulnerable.
> France: Army Marseilles -> Piedmont.
> France: Army Paris -> Burgundy.
> France: Fleet Spain (south coast) -> Western Mediterranean.
(*bounce*)
> France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean -> North Atlantic Ocean.
> France: Fleet Brest -> Picardy.
Marseilles -> Piedmont in combination with the move on Belgium looks
great. he may well get Austrian support into Venice, or might decide
to support Austria in, giving Austria a possible two builds to work
against Russia. I think the latter is definitely a possibility,
though it may not work out that way.
> Germany: Army Denmark -> Kiel.
> Germany: Army Kiel -> Holland.
> Germany: Fleet Holland -> Helgoland Bight.
> Germany: Army Munich SUPPORT French Army Paris -> Burgundy.
> Germany: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT English Army Yorkshire -> London.
(*cut*)
Leaving Denmark empty wasn't a great move. I don't know what lead
him to trust Russia so much. I expect he'll be calling for England's
assistance against Russia very soon. His defences will be strained
in Fall, and he may have to ask France to (hopefully) bounce in
Munich.
> Italy: Army Trieste SUPPORT Austrian Army Budapest. (*cut,
dislodged*)
> Italy: Army Belgium HOLD.
> Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Austrian Fleet Albania -> Greece.
(*void*)
> Italy: Fleet Adriatic Sea -> Albania.
> Italy: Fleet Tunis -> Western Mediterranean. (*bounce*)
> Italy: Fleet Naples HOLD.
A punishing set of moves for Italy. Stabbed by France and Austria.
The French move to Piedmont means retreating to Vienna isn't really
an option any more. He can accept the loss of Trieste and ask
Austria for help into Greece instead, but whether Austria will accept
that offer is another question. I think Austria needs Turkish
assistance, not Turkish enmity.
> Russia: Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
> Russia: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Turkish Army Rumania.
> Russia: Fleet Sweden -> Baltic Sea.
> Russia: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Silesia -> Bohemia.
> Russia: Fleet Norway -> Sweden.
> Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (north coast) -> Norway.
Strong moves from a strong power. Russia is confident and moving
forward. Not stabbing Austria was definitely the right choice.
Fall's less clear, though. He's got a lot of options for how to
attack Germany, and Germany doesn't have enough pieces to cover all
of them.
> Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea -> Greece.
> Turkey: Army Rumania SUPPORT Russian Army Galicia.
> Turkey: Fleet Constantinople -> Aegean Sea.
> Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea -> Greece.
> Turkey: Fleet Smyrna -> Eastern Mediterranean.
Set for an attempt on the Ionian, or can just sit on what he has to
let attrition take out the Italian defenses. Turkey's coasting.
Overall
-------
RT are definitely rolling, and I really can't see any reason for
Russia to want to end that. Turkey might be convinced to stab Russia
if Russia has too easy a time of it up north.
The Russian move on Germany invalidates a lot of France's rhetoric,
so he'll have to work on England a lot this next season. Russia's
size, and his secure southern border, are his only arguments to use
now, and they're not as compelling as the RG coalition he was scaring
England with.
- Mike
Message from Germany to England
Dave:
By all rights, you should toss this message in the trash, as I've
screwed you out of Belgium not once, but twice. I'm hoping, however,
that in the mutual interest of survival, you'll consider what I have to
say.
It is painfully clear to me now that my strategy vis-a-vis Russia has
been ineffectual, and as I was confident you would do, it appears that
you turned to him for support against you and I. I hope that despite
your desire for revenge, you can see that any support you give to Russia
is a deal with the devil. He is guaranteed a German center this turn and
probably an Austrian; a well-timed stab against Turkey in a few rounds
will give him a healthy lead. You and are already almost afterthoughts.
France is clearly just looking to tear into Italy, all the while
providing me with completely useless assistance in my quest to take
English centers. He'd like me to do the heavy lifting against Russia
while he gains steam. Turkey is just going to be a Russian patsy until
he's stabbed. Austria is too busy recovering to be of much help. Italy
is isolated and will soon be crushed.
So, in short, if you and I don't cooperate, we're both toast. If you'd
like to see that happen, fine. There's nothing I can do about that. I
can tell you, though, that if you keep helping Russia, that *will* be
the outcome. I would like to formally request that we wipe the slate
clean, despite the fact that I'm the one that's done all the wrong here.
I am absolutely willing to support you into Norway this season. I may
lose Berlin or Denmark, but I *do not* want the Russian to gain another
center. I will completely back off any previous attempt to take English
centers. I will work with you against France. In short, you give me a
chance to survive with you, and I'll make it worth your while.
It doesn't really matter if you forward this to the Russian -- he's
going to attack me regardless. If you'd like to take Norway, though --
your best shot a gain, frankly -- then it's in your interest to keep
this *very* quiet and work things out with me. If you agree, I can
promise you my committment. Quite frankly, it's the only hope I've got,
and I hope that you can see that. Yeah, I could take Edinburgh if you
went for Norway, but that wouldn't gain me much. With the guaranteed
loss of a center, your fleet in NWG is far more valuable to a defense
against Russia than another build is to me.
Humbly,
Kaiser Erik
Message from Germany to Russia
Hmmmmm.
Message from Observer to Observer
The following commentators poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Who will own Greece after Fall 1903?
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- England, 0 votes, 0.00%
- France, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Germany, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Austria, 4 votes, 30.77%
- Italy, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Russia, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Turkey, 8 votes, 61.54%
- None of the above, 1 votes, 7.69%
INDIVIDUAL VOTES
- England
- France
- Germany
- Austria
- yahoo@morse.myweb.nl
- jasonab@acm.org
- afarnsworth@rim.net
- ericgood@pacbell.net
- Italy
- Russia
- Turkey
- thorfinn+dip@tertius.net.au
- jamie4home@hotmail.com
- greg@spencersoft.com
- elric72@freenet.de
- tim@9oakhill.com
- shatteredanvil@bigpond.com
- agtomlinson@ntlworld.com
- r.g.walters@dsl.pipex.com
- None of the above
- rasputin_69@yahoo.com
For more information about this group, please visit
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Message from Observer to Observer
That was an excellent letter by Erik. It's too bad he didn't follow
up with more letters to the rest of the board, because I'm not
certain England is going to be flexible enough to change. I know
Turkey and Austria are not in a position to do much against
Russia, but simply talking about one's Russian concerns to everyone
will plant the seed that Russia should be stopped and maybe if
England hears an anti-Russian chorus from everyone ...
By the way, I saw the Russian stab coming (I would have made the
exact same fleet moves that Eric made), but I was surprised that Eric
(Russia) didn't stab Erik harder by leaving the army in SIL or
(better yet!) moving to BER. Moving to BOH seems bad, because it
makes Austria cognizant of the fact that he's a target, too. Staying
out of BOH would at least keep Austria neutral/friendly to Russia.
Now, it will be a very tough for Russia to keep Austria friendly,
especially when there were so many better options like attacking
Germany.
Message from Russia to Germany
> Hmmmmm.
Yeah, what was I thinking? I've stabbed you but have no way to take
a Center from you. Not a well-thought out turn for me, I'm afraid.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to all
Did anyone else not get the S1903M Results? I see on floc.net that they
processed yesterday evening, but they still haven't appeared in my Inbox.
Nicky.
Message from Austria to all
> Broadcast message from hunter90@comcast.net as Russia in 'comments':
>
> Did anyone else not get the S1903M Results? I see on floc.net that they
> processed yesterday evening, but they still haven't appeared in my Inbox.
>
I got them, but have deleted them since.
Andy
Message from France to all
Dear All,
The French Foreign ministry will be renovated between 15th
and 25th of February; unfortunately we will have to shut
down the communication for this period. We apologize for
the inconvenience and will answer your messages immediately
after the lines are restored.
Monsieur Coq au Vin Gris des Cotes de Toul
Besides, I go skiing to the Alps (as you can see from the
Spring moves too).
tamas
Message from France to Italy
Mario,
> SHould we bounce in Wes this turn? I'm okay with doing it
> this turn but I don't want to get in the habit of it since
> I'm likely to soon need that fleet to support Ion.
Sure, I definitely do not want to keep bouncing when our
units have better things to do, which was not the case this
spring.
I had thought some about Mar-Tyr and although I am not sure
about the long-term plan I finally decided that I accept
your invitation. Now I see that you will be able to use
that extra army well enough and at the same time we will
have a much better shot at Munich. We should probably work
out the details though because east of Switzerland appears
to be quite crowded these days.
Finally Russia stabbed Germany. I am not sure yet what it
means on the long run but at least he did not get as far as
NWG yet, which would have been quite a disaster.
We should probably have some plan for our armies. I would
like the two of us (A Bel and A Bur) to aim for Munich
asap. What do you think?
Tamas
Message from France to Russia
Nicky,
> Kaiser Erik indicated it would HOLD while waiting for me
> to move to Nrg. I offered him a couple of support options
> for it, but I don't know if he'll listen.
My experience is that German Kaisers get somewhat
unmotivated to listen to suggestions from Moscow if these
are brought to Berlin by a Baltic Fleet. But you never
know.
It seems that the Tyrolia region is getting quite crowded
and multinational these days. I like globalization, hope
you guys do not mind me attending that meeting of yours.
Clearly you will have to wait for the Italian retreat before
deciding about A Boh but in case you do not have a good idea
what to move, may I possibly borrow that order for the fall
season?
Tamas
Message from France to England
Dave,
It is actually better than what we hoped for. With the
Russian stab on Germany we might just win enough time to
seal the Tzar's navy out of the Atlantic, but I do not think
the danger is over yet.
The Kaiser is now without many friends and I will not try to
persuade him to move Hel S NTH - Den to save Denmark. If
that flies then we may even have some nice options for a fun
plan coming now.
I am planning to support ENG-Bel in the fall, but you will
have to leave Edi open for the build. I am sure that
Germany will not attempt it, but I will certainly find out
about it. Alternatively ENG-NTH can be played if you want
to seal out a possible Nor-NTH. As of now I do not know
what's best, but we are in good shape.
A very exciting plan would be the following:
ENG-Bel, NWG-BAR, NAO-NWG. With this you could convoy a
newly built army right to Stp, or take Norway with support.
We should discuss this further.
I will be reading email until Friday afternoon GMT, then I
am off for a week.
Best,
Tamas
Message from France to Austria and Turkey
My Friends,
I appreciate the effort you two put into getting to the much
needed agreement. I am hoping that Italy is stopped soon
and we can concentrate on Russia (which I have started
already).
I am a little worried about Sil-Boh and it might be a good
idea to cover Vie from Bud and maybe we could play Rum-Gal,
Mun-Boh (I hope I can arrange the latter)? If we could deny
Russia a build until an English fleet is put next to StP
would be quite a relief for all of us and will bring us a
nicely balanced Europe again.
Thoughts?
Tamas
Message from France to Germany
Erik,
I am guessing that Swe-Bal is not something which you agreed
on with Russia. We will have to think about the fall moves
but I am afraid trading Denmark for an unsure English center
would not be a good bargain.
I am sorry I could not go to ENG but I had to bounce Italy
off Wes and dislodging ENG would have given me an English
retreat to MAO. Of course Belgium is now yours, you
definitely need it much more than I do but we will have to
plan it carefuly because again it would not be wise to trade
it for a German home center to Russia, England or Italy.
In any case, I am now on NAO as promised, of course that
means that England will not write to me any more and I will
be back to MAO by the end of this fall to put adequate
pressure where needed. We should probably try to talk
Turkey into some action in the south because presently he is
only concerned with Italy.
Thoughts?
Tamas
Message from England to Germany
Erik,
Suddenly I am a very popular power...I think I have presses from everyone (save maybe Turkey) to consider. I'll get back to you later today about the merits of your suggestions; just wanted to let you know that your message was received and under consideration.
dave
Message from France to France
Observers,
I apologize for being lazy and not writing these reports.
To be honest, I have not done any tactical planning since
S1901, all my effort went into diplomacy to consolidate my
position without caring much about where my units are.
I believe (might be bold) that by now I have achieved what
my goal usually is, that I am semi-allied with every power
on the board. I do not know though what Italy will say
about my lineup against Belgium, he probably does not treat
me as an ally any more but he is not the alliance-player
anyway.
My goal is to accomplish as much tempo as I can without
antagonizing others, thus I am planning to push my units
still further in the fall. I'd like to see myself in Tyr
and possibly on NWG by the end of the year. I am counting
on England not taking Brest which is a risk I think I can
afford, and I want to support ENG-Bel which gets rid of that
neighboring fleet as well as the Italian army hopefully.
If I can convince Italy to play Bel-Ruh then I might ask
Russia to support me into Munich, a sixth center would
really be quite comforting for me. Another quite nasty
thought is the following:
F Pic S Bur-Bel, Spa-MAO, NAO-Lvp. That would give me two
builds, A Bre, A Mar and an almost guaranteed convoy to the
island, or F Bre, A Mar and a nice opposition to Russia's
navy.
Tamas
Message from England to France
Tamas,
ENG-Bel would be lovely. Also lovely is Germany's proposal to me (very long, very desperate, very apologetic) to support NWG-Nor. He is very alarmed about Russia.
I assume Pie-Ven? With Italy losing Tri, Ven and Bel this fall, he'd be in horrible shape. I propose taking the German up on his offer, and NWG-Nor, (NTH S) (figuring that Russia will use Swe and BAL to try for Den, right?) with NAO rotating into NWG to fill our lines. Your thoughts? The possibiIity of two builds is so appealing to me that it's possible I'm overlooking the benefits of NWG-BAR and setting up the convoy line...of course, if R gets a build (which he will) he'd put a unit in StP.
Things are looking up, Tamas.
Yours,
dave
Message from France to England
Hi Dave,
> ENG-Bel would be lovely. Also lovely is Germany's
> proposal to me (very long, very desperate, very
> apologetic) to support NWG-Nor. He is very alarmed about
> Russia.
No kidding! :-)
> I assume Pie-Ven? With Italy losing Tri, Ven and Bel this
> fall, he'd be in horrible shape.
I do not know. Pie-Ven is not likely to succeed and I would
not mind seeing some more blood in the I-T war before I am
there with all my units I need to sort out things.
> I propose taking the German up on his offer, and NWG-Nor,
> (NTH S) (figuring that Russia will use Swe and BAL to try
> for Den, right?) with NAO rotating into NWG to fill our
> lines. Your thoughts? The possibiIity of two builds is
> so appealing to me that it's possible I'm overlooking the
> benefits of NWG-BAR and setting up the convoy line...of
> course, if R gets a build (which he will) he'd put a unit
> in StP.
NWG-Nor is not very good, I think. First, you have to trust
Germany and although he must be talking flowers, I would not
bet my life on it. The only advantage I see in it is that F
NAO goes to NWG which is probably a better position for both
of us. But it leaves the German fleet on NTH which is very
bad. I believe that NWG S NTH-Nor is somewhat better.
Remember, it is always better to see your neighbors fighting
then fighting either of them. And this is exactly what
Germany is up to: if he can make you attack Russia, he might
have some chance to patch up with the Tzar (especially if
Turkey moves this season).
I know that it would be nice to build two units but where do
you send those two units next year? You still have an army
to deploy and there are not any more sea provinces next to
England unless you consider MAO, but I would be somewhat
nervous in that setup given that I am not building this
year. Maybe in that case it would be better if both of us
built one: that is I took Belgium and you Norway, that has
the added advantage that I can support your convoy into
Holland next fall, which would be quite a spectacular move.
> Things are looking up, Tamas.
I agree but we have to play it right to capitalize on what
we have achieved. I really appreciate the work we both put
in sorting out our differences and I can see many good
things about working together on the long run. If German
can be sent to face Russia with full power then we are on
the right track of ruling the west hand in hand.
Best,
Tamas
Message from Russia to France
Tamas,
> My experience is that German Kaisers get somewhat
> unmotivated to listen to suggestions from Moscow if these
> are brought to Berlin by a Baltic Fleet. But you never
> know.
Supporting Yor-Lon was my first suggestion to him,
oddly enough. Since you seemed concerned about my
expanding into England, and I wasn't sure that
helping Germany grow at England's expense was in
Russia's best interest, I changed to the Baltic
shift shortly before deadline. Had I known you
were going to Pie, I probably wouldn't have moved
to Boh, though.
> Clearly you will have to wait for the Italian retreat before
> deciding about A Boh but in case you do not have a good idea
> what to move, may I possibly borrow that order for the fall
> season?
What did you have in mind?
Nicky.
Message from Russia to England
Dave,
Sorry about not ordering Nwy-Nrg to bounce Edi-Nrg,
but I really didn't expect you to move there, and
I decided that helping Germany invade England was
a bad idea. It's hard to say how Kaiser Erik will
react to my move to the Baltic, but I suppose you
can't rule out Nth-Edi.
I imagine that Tamas will take Lvp, and there's no
real way for you to stop him, but you might ask
him to support ECh-Bel. You could threaten to
disband F Nrg if he doesn't, and he should welcome
the chance to hurt Italy and protect Brest, and
get your cooperation. Feel free to drop me a line
and chat, if you'd like.
Nicky.
Message from England to France
Tamas,
If you will support ENG-Bel, then I will suggest to Germany that I support him to Nor instead of the other way around if you believe that to be wiser.
Italy: Army Trieste → Venice
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