|
|
England: Removes 1 unit
France: Builds 1 unit
Germany: Builds 1 unit
Italy: Removes 1 unit
Message from Russia to Turkey
> Movement results for Fall of 1906. (comments.024)
>
> Turkey: Army Sevastopol -> Moscow.
*sigh* Do you REALLY want France to Solo? Moving to threaten
War and StP is a hell of a way to make it happen. If you want my
cooperation against Austria, and my efforts to stop France, get the
hell out of Russia, now. We need all five of our Armies to be sure
of taking an Austrian Center. Your move to Moscow means that
won't happen this year.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Austria
Andy,
I don't make idle threats. There are times when I lack the force to carry
them
out, as when Sloth turned down my support to Ion, and took Tun instead, but
there's no reason to make a threat if you aren't going to carry it out, as
far as
I can see.
Eric.
Message from Russia to Germany and Italy
Gentlemen,
> Message from Italy to Germany and Russia in 'comments':
>
> Now, while I accept that it is a good thing to get Germany back into
> his home centers, I now have a disband and Germany has an unusable
> build. Was this really the best option?
Obviously not. With Austria retreating from Pie, France building,
England being eliminated, and the fool Turk moving to Moscow, an
Italian disband is the last thing we need to see.
> In any case, I'm retreating to Berlin and we can talk about what to
> do in adjustments later.
If you can convince Austria to move back to Pie, A Tus might be an
option. Otherwise, A Ber seems like the best choice
Nicky.
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
> I don't make idle threats.
I didnt take you as the kind of person that did.
There are times when I lack the force to carry
> them
> out, as when Sloth turned down my support to Ion, and took Tun instead, but
> there's no reason to make a threat if you aren't going to carry it out, as
> far as
> I can see.
I agree.
How do you want to work togther.
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
Mario,
I apologize, I got nervous.
I didnt hear from you all week and thought that you were cutting your
losses.
I didnt do anything that actually hurts you, but I am so screwed its
frightening.
The Turk has played the Russian like a cheap drum.
We need to get the French to back off.
I ask that you disband the army in Tuscany, I will MAKE the French
understand that we are going to stop Turkey and if he hinders that effort
in any way that we will both attack him full force, giving Turkey the
game.
I will be following up with a press to both of you.
Please tell me I havent ruined our relationship.
Andy
Message from Austria to Turkey
Andrew,
you live a dangerous life, or you are just WAY too trusting.
When a man makes a public threat to throw the game, if you make a
particular action, and you do it anyway, you have given him no option.
If you really do want to fight all 3 of us at once, you have certainly
invited it.
If there is anything we can do to *not fight* please let me know...
You do have options on who you attack this season, and some of those
options have a very short window of opportunity....like Warsaw for
instance.
Let me know
Andy
Message from Austria to France and Italy
Gentlemen,
We have a situation and an opportunity.
The situation revolves around the fact that Russia has been doing
everything in its power to help the Turk attack me, for what reason
I am not clear on.
The opportunity revolves around being able to stop the Turkish war
machine.
Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied Moscow again he
would help attack him full out until he was dead. Well...Turkey is in
Moscow, and the Russian seems well to carry out his threat.
Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I coordinate and deal
with the Turk, I have asked Mario to disband the army in Tuscany, and I
will move Venice back to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and
carry out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in the Gulf
of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or the Austro-Italian
forces as long as you keep the fleet in the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to
work on the Turk.
With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort into stopping
the behemoth that he has become. He is guaranteed at least one build this
coming year.
I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
thanks
Andy
Message from Austria to Germany
Eric,
That wasnt particurally helpful. You dont even have anywhere to build.
Im not sure what exactly you and the Russian are accomplishing up there,
but the Russian just got hosed by the Turk, so I think you might want to
start talking to me again, since I believe the Russians exact words were
"If you ever re-occupy Moscow I am going to help France win", that doesnt
look terribly good for you...
Let me know what is on your mind
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
> Please tell me I havent ruined our relationship.
We have a relationship? Seems to me like it consists of you asking me to
do things, and then you doing whatever you feel like. This is what, the
2nd? 3rd? time in a row for this?
But, to be fair, our "relationship" before that consisted of me doing
probably the same things...
In any case, I think that I need France or Turkey out of the game if I
have any hope to survive. Your plan seems reasonable enough, should
France agree to it. Couple of problems.
1. If I keep Ber what's it doing? I can't continue to fight france (with
GR) in the north, or France won't leave us alone in the Med. To Sil/Gal?
2. How are we going to stop Turkey, even given full AIR cooperation?
Message from France to Austria and Italy
Andy, Mario,
> Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied
> Moscow again he would help attack him full out until he
> was dead. Well...Turkey is in Moscow, and the Russian
> seems well to carry out his threat.
Did he say so? If yes why was he not among the addressees?
> Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I
> coordinate and deal with the Turk, I have asked Mario to
> disband the army in Tuscany, and I will move Venice back
> to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and carry
> out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in
> the Gulf of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or
> the Austro-Italian forces as long as you keep the fleet in
> the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to work on the Turk.
For many seasons I have been trying to show Mario via moves
and my talk that I am no threat to him, but rather I provide
help which I indeed did (on one particular occasion at
Andy's expense). My latest (almost fatal) act was an army
build in Paris at his demand, we all saw how Italy repaid
this.
I have been thinking how much farther I can go with making
one-sided commitments and frankly, I see less and less
justification for doing so. But, I do sense that this is an
opportunity: not in Andy's sense but for the very fact that
we might fix a three-way agreement which is a nice
guarantee.
I will not go as far as promising precise orders and moves
on my part, I simply cannot afford it after two seasons of
defense against a 5-power alliance. But, if that is good
enough, I will promise that I will not attack Italy in any
sense and that my moves will be such that this is obvious.
I will also promise that I will not tip off the Turk. One
further thing I want is that Italy stops working with
Germany against me.
> With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort
> into stopping the behemoth that he has become. He is
> guaranteed at least one build this coming year.
>
> I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
>
> Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
It is certainly a good starting point, and I am certainly
happy to do real diplomacy after some silence on the
incoming telephone lines.
Looking forward to your comments,
Tamas
Message from Russia to Austria
Andy,
> How do you want to work togther.
Do you want support back to Gal? Nwy-StP/NC blocks Mos-StP,
and I doubt that he'll want to give up Gal, so Gal S Mos-War seems
a bit more likely than Mos S Gal-War. If he does order Gal-War,
I'll retreat to Ukr, and we should be able to take Rum in the Fall.
Does this make sense to you?
Eric.
Message from Austria to Russia
> > How do you want to work togther.
>
> Do you want support back to Gal? Nwy-StP/NC blocks Mos-StP,
> and I doubt that he'll want to give up Gal, so Gal S Mos-War seems
> a bit more likely than Mos S Gal-War. If he does order Gal-War,
> I'll retreat to Ukr, and we should be able to take Rum in the Fall.
> Does this make sense to you?
>
That sounds like a fine plan.....
We are on.
Message from Austria to France and Italy
Tamas, Mario
>
>
> > Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied
> > Moscow again he would help attack him full out until he
> > was dead. Well...Turkey is in Moscow, and the Russian
> > seems well to carry out his threat.
>
> Did he say so? If yes why was he not among the addressees?
Becuase in my experience if you are willing to broadcast that threat to
the entire game, you mean it.
I have gone to him for reassurances on it
> > Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I
> > coordinate and deal with the Turk, I have asked Mario to
> > disband the army in Tuscany, and I will move Venice back
> > to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and carry
> > out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in
> > the Gulf of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or
> > the Austro-Italian forces as long as you keep the fleet in
> > the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to work on the Turk.
>
> For many seasons I have been trying to show Mario via moves
> and my talk that I am no threat to him, but rather I provide
> help which I indeed did (on one particular occasion at
> Andy's expense). My latest (almost fatal) act was an army
> build in Paris at his demand, we all saw how Italy repaid
> this.
>
We have all been decieving the other fro some time now. I think we can get
past this.
> I have been thinking how much farther I can go with making
> one-sided commitments and frankly, I see less and less
> justification for doing so. But, I do sense that this is an
> opportunity: not in Andy's sense but for the very fact that
> we might fix a three-way agreement which is a nice
> guarantee.
I agree.
> I will not go as far as promising precise orders and moves
> on my part, I simply cannot afford it after two seasons of
> defense against a 5-power alliance.
I think that I showed you last turn that I dont want to fight you.
I think you can also describe Mario's moves to be defensive in nature.
We both feel a bit of a squeeze right now, and I am trying to make it
possible for he and I to deal with the Turk....
Im pretty sure I can get the Russian on board, I am awaiting an answer to
the note I sent him.
But, if that is good
> enough, I will promise that I will not attack Italy in any
> sense and that my moves will be such that this is obvious.
> I will also promise that I will not tip off the Turk. One
> further thing I want is that Italy stops working with
> Germany against me.
I know I can agree to this, and I wont speak for Mario, but in my eyes it
seems very reasonable.
> > With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort
> > into stopping the behemoth that he has become. He is
> > guaranteed at least one build this coming year.
> >
> > I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
> >
> > Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
>
> It is certainly a good starting point, and I am certainly
> happy to do real diplomacy after some silence on the
> incoming telephone lines.
As am I.
Be well
Andy
Message from Russia to Austria
> That sounds like a fine plan.....
>
> We are on.
Ok, which Unit should I support to Gal?
Eric.
Message from Austria to Russia
>
> > That sounds like a fine plan.....
> >
> > We are on.
>
> Ok, which Unit should I support to Gal?
>
Vienna
Good luck
Andy
Message from Russia to Austria
Andy,
>> Ok, which Unit should I support to Gal?
>
> Vienna
Ok. On another topic, if Italy disbands A Tus, would you be willing
to move Ven-Pie? Germany wanted his Home Centers back so
badly that his dislodged IA Kiel, rather than just moving into Kiel
if Italy made it into Hol, so now Italy has to disband. We might be
able to use IA Ber against FT, but that would probably require
disbanding A Tus, and we don't want to allow A Mar-Pie.
Eric.
Message from Austria to Russia
> Ok. On another topic, if Italy disbands A Tus, would you be willing
> to move Ven-Pie?
Maybe. I have asked him to disband Tus, I want to hear what he has to say
first
Germany wanted his Home Centers back so
> badly that his dislodged IA Kiel, rather than just moving into Kiel
> if Italy made it into Hol, so now Italy has to disband. We might be
> able to use IA Ber against FT, but that would probably require
> disbanding A Tus, and we don't want to allow A Mar-Pie.
>
I understand, Germanys move was foolish.
Let me think about it...
Message from Russia to Italy
Mario,
I asked Austria if he'd be willing to commit to moving Ven-Pie if you
disband Tus. He said he'd asked you to disband Tus, and would
consider the move to Pie.
Nicky.
Message from France to Germany
Erik,
This thing does not seem to end, does it?
> If you have a better suggestion for it, though, I'm all
> ears.
My suggestion was there a year ago. If you had followed it
as you had promised you would, then you would now have Edi,
Kie, Ber and Holland too if you had insisted (to remind you:
I only took it so that we can build for it). Unfortunately
this is history, but I am really curious to see in the end
what made you abandon this clearly good plan of us.
At the same time I must notice that already a few times in
this game we showed excellence in overcoming our
difficulties and on each of these occasion both of us
benefited greatly. (And it is also true that we never
gained from screwing it up for the other). I hope that you
agree that another such action is in order.
I have already incorporated this hope in the past season's
orders. While most of my moves were concentrating on
defense, there were a few ways to do that and I did reject
the very tempting Bur S Bel-Ruh as well as Bel S Bur-Ruh,
Mar-Bur on the basis that it would not have left much room
for honest talk.
My suggestion is still the same and is quite playable. If
you want to make sure that you are in the draw, then you
have to secure the north for yourself. I want you to rule
Scandinavia and at the same time let me concentrate on the
south where my main interest lies. It is just too
frustrating that I have to keep three of my fleets in the
atlantic region because you keep knocking on the door
instead of both of us doing our own business.
As for concrete matters, I want to exchange Lon for Edi,
that way the line is most clearly defined between us. Of
course, I hope that you retake Ber and there be peace along
our border instead of opposing units.
If you are interested in talking about any of these, I am
all ears.
Tamas
Message from France to Turkey
Dear Sultan,
I am really disappointed. I am trying to find an
explanation for your strategy but naively it seems that you
do all in your power to make the 2WD impossible and turn it
into a larger draw.
Look, you keep telling me that my size frightens you and I
understand it but it more and more looks like a game you are
playing on me. Now you have had three or more fleets on ION
for many many years, could have taken all the Italian
centers by now and for some strange reason your fleets keep
holding instead. I know that you would now say that I am
not fighting Italy hard enough. But let's get this clear:
we are talking about _your_ centers and it is somewhat
strange the you want me to get them for you. I am taking
the beating for F WES from Italy for many seasons, and
making a fool out of myself. If you want the 2WD then you
should control the eastern med and take the Italian
centers.
EAS S Nap-ION instead of _at least_ EAS-ION ???? Brrr.
I now took Edi and believe me, I am not happy at all, it was
part of my defensive plan, did not mean to take it and you
will now say that we are getting unbalanced. I have no
options, the whole board is attacking me, I had to move
aggressively. Plenty of opportunity which you miss while 5
nations fight against myself. Instead, you are holding with
four fleets in the south.
I suggest the following. You tell me frankly what you want
and we revisit our joint plans to see how to accomplish
that. I hope that you will give up on your holding plan,
otherwise I pull back to my stalemate line (Por S Spa, Gas S
Mar, ENG S MAO), Italy knows that he cannot do me any damage
and will get a free hand to join Austria if he wants. One
thing is sure, I will not set draw as long as more than 3
players are on the board and in particular I will not set
draw as long as both Turkey and Italy are alive.
Looking forward to what you say,
Tamas
Message from France to Russia
Nicky,
From your last message I (correctly) assumed that you
eventually rejected the opportunity of taking Edi. This is
why I ignored my original offer and took it myself. I hope
that you understand: I did not need the center but
eliminating the completely silent power was all too
important for me.
In hindsight, I believe that your decision of abandoning
both Edi and Swe was wrong because you clearly are in need
of A StP now. The guessing game with Warsaw is too
frightening.
Do you have a plan? As I have told you for a long time, I
am happy to help you grow back to a healthy size but the
only way I see this is possible is if you pick up German
centers. You must realize that the chances of sniffing and
holding a French center are quite low, let alone building
for it after being stretched so far. Scandinavia (Den, Swe)
are much more viable options because the forces which take
these centers are naturally connected to the ones which
defend your home.
When I debated Austria's assessment in my broadcast and
argued that you have a chance in the draw, I was pretty
serious because indeed you did have a good chance to replace
Germany, but only if you build your own units instead of
suporting his. But we both know too well that this chance
is rapidly fading and the longer you postpone this
inevitable decision, the more unlikely it is that you have
any chance of surviving in this game.
I naturally would be very happy to hear your point of view
on this state of affairs.
Tamas
Message from France to Austria
Andy,
I appreciate your effort of straightening out things. At
the same time I want to make the comment that I would
probably make the observers astonished if I trusted you.
You yourself had said previously that
/---------------------------------------------
| > And I have stabbed Turkey so many times, in so many games
| > that I know he is dying to cut my heart out.
| >
| > the Russian is very wary of me, I just finished a game
| > with him where I showed myself to be a very dangerous
| > player.
| >
| > And the Turk has seen me expand exponentially in the past.
\---------------------------------------------
and I can do nothing but join those who fear your
partnership because by now you have been around for enough
time and I have been hit by the force of your lies.
At the same time you did make the good impression of a
player who appreciates his country's interest first and
foremost and that is something I rate very high, not shared
by many players unfortunately as examples in this game show
too.
Why am I saying this? Because I want to make sure that you
feel uncomfortable if trying to set a trap for me and I also
want you to know that although I completely agree with your
opinion on the Sultan's playing style, I will give all
assistance needed (diplomatic, advice, moves) for the Sultan
if AI goes around some funny business. I do guess that the
there is no need to say this and I do not expect that
happening at all but my experience is that it does more good
than bad to be aware of consequences of errors, mistakes.
And mainly I say this because I am not sure what your plan
really is. You need units to fight Turkey even with Italian
help and that may be hard. A Ber might help but it might be
disbanded next year. And where will your centers come from,
in particular a fourth fleet?
If Italy disbands A Tus then clearly there are two ways to
play from there. One is the tactics you outlined to IF.
But I must notice that another excellent plan is for Austria
to grab Rom and invite France back to the Med a season later
(which is what F WES-LYO suggests). Quite playable because
you get the boot, the centers you need against Turkey and it
hardly makes a difference for you whether the Turkish fleets
are stoped where they are or on ION by France. And a
two-center Italy cannot even throw anything to Turkey in
revenge.
I cannot tell which one is your plan and I am pretty sure
you will not tell me, which is allright with me. If we
agree along the lines proposed, I will follow through as I
had said but I am quite curious what way it will turn out.
There is another option for you to gain centers, one which I
find unlikely that you want to take, which is Tyr-Mun and
the like. If you do think about these directions, I
strongly advise that you coordinate with me because it would
be somewhat unfortunate to step on each other's toe.
Sorry for the long rubbish.
Tamas
Message from Russia to France
Tamas,
Quickly as the family is getting ready to go out. I toyed with Swe Support
Nth-Den last season, and even thought about logging back in and ordering
it before the deadline, but I fell asleep. With Germany supporting himself
to Denmark instead of just following IA Kiel if Kiel-Hol succeeded that
forces Italy to disband and with your build that's not good for the "Stop
France" campaign. When combined with Turkey's move to Moscow,
I'm very close to a "support the French Solo to punish the fools" attitude,
right now. I really wonder what part of, "If Turkey moves back to Mos,
I'll support the French Solo.", Turkey didn't understand?
> Do you have a plan?
Several, but I have no clear idea which one I'll choose at this point. I
do understand your perspective, and it has a certain validity, but I don't
feel that I can eliminate German Armies if I can't afford to move forward
to fill in for them and the Turkish Army adjacent to my Home Centers
prevents that.
Nicky.
Message from France to Russia
Nikcy,
> I toyed with Swe Support Nth-Den last season,
Which indeed would have been a winner even for the
stop-France thingy.
> With Germany supporting himself to Denmark instead of just
> following IA Kiel if Kiel-Hol succeeded that forces Italy
> to disband and with your build that's not good for the
> "Stop France" campaign.
Germany wanted Kie-Hol to fail. He wanted to show himself
loyal to the stop France alliance but at the same time
thought that his bid for Scandinavia - given Turkish A Mos -
has much better chances with my fleet Hol than the Italian
army which has already proven to be able to do funny things.
What he failed to take into account is that I will risk
Lvp-Edi. He counted on me not building and thought that IA
all against me along with the annoying English F NAO indeed
would tie my fleets down while he goes back to Swe and Nor
(with the promised Turkish help).
> Several, but I have no clear idea which one I'll choose at
> this point. I do understand your perspective, and it has
> a certain validity, but I don't feel that I can eliminate
> German Armies if I can't afford to move forward to fill in
> for them and the Turkish Army adjacent to my Home Centers
> prevents that.
Ok, I wait for you thinking it over, you do not have a build
so you have some time. I do not get your point about what
you can and cannot afford. It is most clear that your
country needs a miracle. I am not saying that what I
suggest has a high chance of guaranteeing your survival but
I am not sure if there are any viable alternatives.
I will not talk you into supporting the French solo,
although it has some merit because a more direct solo threat
is what creates opportunities for minor powers to survive.
Recently I was in a game where a one center Austria survived
in Warsaw thanks to a 17-center Italy.
On the other hand I am sure that you notice that after
Austria has quit, Germany is deliberately screwing up
things, and Italy cannot move a further step towards me
(because of Turkey and the disappearance of F NAO), it would
be quite foolish to hammer me along the lines of "the good
cause". I will make an offer for you now which I am sure
you will find credible. I of course am fighting for the
solo just like most of us do. I do think that my chances
are better than the others' on the board. I will attack you
if at any point I find that my chances to win come from
taking dots from you. But, if you stay allied with me, then
I will give all assistance needed to make sure that _if_ the
game ends in a draw then it will include you.
Tamas
Message from France to France
Observers,
I was extremely lucky this season. I correctly guessed that
Russia is probably too tired to mislead me on their plan.
NTH-Edi, Kie S Ruh-Hol, Mun-Ber would have been quite
devastating for me.
Clearly by far the biggest gain for me this year is the
disband of F NAO. Italy cannot do any damage to me and
freed from the English fleet in the backyard I have many
options to negotiate.
What I need now is Turkish success against Italy and
Austrian success against Turkey. Timing is very important,
the Turkish success should come first. I very much hope
that Turkey takes ION finally this season. I think that the
Austrian suggestion of WES-LYO has some merit, if I can stay
on MAO then the Turkish attack opens a clear path to line up
on LYO-WES-NAF soon. SPA-WES-NAF is already a stalemate
line (Mar might need support though). Thus even if the
southern push does not work, I will have 5 units to work
with on the north as long as Pie is empty.
I made the "standard" offer to Russia. I was a little bit
lying about the game I quoted where Austria survived. He
_almost_ survived but Italy grabbed the solo eventually.
And with some luck this might be the case. One distinct
possibility is that if I make Russia attack any German
center then Germany might also help me out of spite against
the Tzar.
The south is a big question. Austria's proposal is
credible, I believe and I do not think he ever considered
the path I outlined in my reply (him stabbing Italy on the
way). Chances are that he will laugh at it but one never
knows...
In general, I am quite pleased. The west sorted out before
the east and that might be decisive. Even if I lose
something in the near future, the complexity of the
battlefield in the IAT region will surely open up a few
opportunities in the future. Of course the FT 2WD bid is
still in the cards but if the FT push is succesful then I am
confident that I can steal the solo from the sultan. It is
more likely that he will abandon it because I am sure many
on the board explain him this very carefully.
Tamas
Message from France to Italy
Dear Mario,
I would appreciate your comments to Austria's proposal. I
will not repeat my honest explanation of why I did what I
did and how I think it was pro-Italian rather than
aggressive because you are surely bored of it now.
I have to compliment on the arrangement of the anti-French
campaign at the same time, I only saved my ass by incredible
luck and guesswork. Of course it is hard to keep that many
powers together and the fact that Germany wanted Kie-Hol to
fail did not help a lot but I still could have suffered big
if I had guessed wrong.
The fortunate annihilation of F NAO makes my defense pretty
good all over therefore I surely can afford to watch the
spectacular AI against T keeping only a very limited force
in the south. The only weak point I see is that the list of
major Austrian lies in this game has grown to an incredible
size. If you tell me that you trust his suggestion and you
are interested in stopping your anti-French campaign then I
am more than ready to continue our partnership.
Tamas
Message from Austria to France
> I appreciate your effort of straightening out things. At
> the same time I want to make the comment that I would
> probably make the observers astonished if I trusted you.
> You yourself had said previously that
>
> /---------------------------------------------
> | > And I have stabbed Turkey so many times, in so many games
> | > that I know he is dying to cut my heart out.
> | >
> | > the Russian is very wary of me, I just finished a game
> | > with him where I showed myself to be a very dangerous
> | > player.
> | >
> | > And the Turk has seen me expand exponentially in the past.
> \---------------------------------------------
Yes....I think they would be
> and I can do nothing but join those who fear your
> partnership because by now you have been around for enough
> time and I have been hit by the force of your lies.
I dont understand. I havent been lying about you....who has said that.
> At the same time you did make the good impression of a
> player who appreciates his country's interest first and
> foremost and that is something I rate very high, not shared
> by many players unfortunately as examples in this game show
> too.
I would tend to agree with that sentiment.
> Why am I saying this? Because I want to make sure that you
> feel uncomfortable if trying to set a trap for me and I also
> want you to know that although I completely agree with your
> opinion on the Sultan's playing style, I will give all
> assistance needed (diplomatic, advice, moves) for the Sultan
> if AI goes around some funny business.
I understand what you are saying completely. I cannot REALLY affect you,
and I will do my best to convince the Italian to stay on the path as well.
I do guess that the
> there is no need to say this and I do not expect that
> happening at all but my experience is that it does more good
> than bad to be aware of consequences of errors, mistakes.
No need whatsoever.
I am a firm believer in punishing poor play.
> And mainly I say this because I am not sure what your plan
> really is. You need units to fight Turkey even with Italian
> help and that may be hard. A Ber might help but it might be
> disbanded next year. And where will your centers come from,
> in particular a fourth fleet?
Well....assuming the Russian stands by his word, and from my experience in
the past with him, he doesnt make public threats idley.
Turkey can be dealt with as long as you arent threatening our centers.
> If Italy disbands A Tus then clearly there are two ways to
> play from there. One is the tactics you outlined to IF.
Yes.
> But I must notice that another excellent plan is for Austria
> to grab Rom and invite France back to the Med a season later
> (which is what F WES-LYO suggests). Quite playable because
> you get the boot, the centers you need against Turkey and it
> hardly makes a difference for you whether the Turkish fleets
> are stoped where they are or on ION by France. And a
> two-center Italy cannot even throw anything to Turkey in
> revenge.
Well...I cant do that in the short term. I just dont have the fleets.
And the boot is niegh unto impossible to protect without a few fleets.
I suggested going to LYO so that you had option on how you felt
comfortable protecting Marsaille. I am not going to get anywhere near it.
> I cannot tell which one is your plan and I am pretty sure
> you will not tell me, which is allright with me. If we
> agree along the lines proposed, I will follow through as I
> had said but I am quite curious what way it will turn out.
As am I.
> There is another option for you to gain centers, one which I
> find unlikely that you want to take, which is Tyr-Mun and
> the like. If you do think about these directions, I
> strongly advise that you coordinate with me because it would
> be somewhat unfortunate to step on each other's toe.
Not with the Turk putting the full court press on me.
> Sorry for the long rubbish.
Not long....
take care
Andy
Message from Turkey to Russia
>
> > Turkey: Army Sevastopol -> Moscow.
>
>*sigh* Do you REALLY want France to Solo? Moving to threaten
>War and StP is a hell of a way to make it happen. If you want my
>cooperation against Austria, and my efforts to stop France, get the
>hell out of Russia, now. We need all five of our Armies to be sure
>of taking an Austrian Center. Your move to Moscow means that
>won't happen this year.
Dude, I'm not attacking you. I moved to Moscow to bounce you. With
Den and Swe, you could have been at 6 centers this turn, with me
going down one...I couldn't let that happen. I full expect you to
take and hold the north. You can have Moscow this turn, as i think I
will surely get an Austrian center to make up for it.
Message from Turkey to Austria
could you be more specific? i am really only attacking you. I moved
to Moscow expecting a bounce. Russia could have taken 3 center this
turn, that would have been a nightmare for me with R holding a strong
hand. All Russia needs to do is hold that north and he has prime real
estate. I have no plans to stab Russia as I can't possibly pull it
off. also, I am obviously not attacking Italy so he can hold off
France.
That leaves you, who I am obviously attacking. I have just reviewed
all options and I can't see that there is anything but for me to
attack you
Message from Turkey to Italy
OK, what now? I didn't attack you, and now France is pissed. Austria
and I are at war, and Russia is pissed.
turkey
Message from Turkey to France
Let's review something. If you had tapped Tunis last turn, I would
have already been in the Ionian. I was not in a position of strength
with the Russian this turn and had to either trust him or potentially
piss him off by moving/bouncing in Mos. Austria I am already
attacking.
Therefore given your wishy-washy stuff on Italy, I couldn't afford to
piss him off this turn too.
Message from Turkey to Germany
No press? What is going on with you France and Russia?
Message from Austria to Turkey
> could you be more specific?
Lets see...
I believe the Russian's exact words were "If you ever occupy Moscow again,
I will do everything I can to throw France the game"
I think that would constitute attacking you. Which I expect him to go
through with....
Message from Turkey to Austria
> > could you be more specific?
>
>Lets see...
>
>I believe the Russian's exact words were "If you ever occupy Moscow again,
>I will do everything I can to throw France the game"
>
>I think that would constitute attacking you. Which I expect him to go
>through with....
with what? he can't attack me. I'll give him Moscow this turn, and
we'll be all good. he will look like a fool if he throws the game.
i think you on the other hand are head for the showers. it's the
bottom of the ninth, the bases are loaded and you have no one left in
the bullpen.
turkey
Message from Austria to Turkey
you are probably right.
Message from Italy to France
Tamas,
> campaign at the same time, I only saved my ass by incredible
> luck and guesswork. Of course it is hard to keep that many
> powers together and the fact that Germany wanted Kie-Hol to
> fail did not help a lot but I still could have suffered big
> if I had guessed wrong.
Well, I think you played it excellently. The record will show that the
moves I preferred would have cost you Holland, and left IGR (should that
continue to exist) in much better position. But, whatever...
> major Austrian lies in this game has grown to an incredible
> size. If you tell me that you trust his suggestion and you
> are interested in stopping your anti-French campaign then I
> am more than ready to continue our partnership.
Oh this concerns me quite a bit. At this point though what can I do? I
feel quite strongly that I can not be a viable force in this game while
you and Turkey are alive. I am fine with it being you (i.e. Turkey being
eliminated). I assume you are as well? :-)
Certainly myself and somebody (Russia? Germany?) will need to keep an eye
on Austria.
And needless to say I will cease my anti-F efforts in the north.
Message from Italy to Turkey
Well, thanks to Germany, first I have to decide what unit to remove. My
next goal will be to retake Venice. After that, I'll continue to try and
gain some other supply center. It's not looking good for me I think, but
nonetheless I will march on...
Message from Italy to Austria
So, if I remove A Tus, a) what do I do with A Ber, b) how do I get a
center to make up for the fact that Germany is going to take Berlin
(regardless of whether or not it's a good idea for him). Tangentially c)
when do I get Venice back?
Worth anything to have France's fleet pass through Ion to give us another
fleet against Turkey?
I'd be okay with it passing through Tys and/or Ion if my fleets occupied
Nap and Tun. A 4th fleet might come in handy. But with Turkey's forces
so land-oriented, any attack on him is going to need to come from southern
Russia - we'll never be able to penetrate his naval defenses
Message from Austria to Italy
> So, if I remove A Tus, a) what do I do with A Ber, b) how do I get a
> center to make up for the fact that Germany is going to take Berlin
> (regardless of whether or not it's a good idea for him). Tangentially c)
> when do I get Venice back?
A) I dont know.
B) As soon as I can get one to you. If I had the position to do so, I
would support you to Greece this year, and I might have the position in
the fall.
C) As soon as I get a build.
> Worth anything to have France's fleet pass through Ion to give us another
> fleet against Turkey?
If you are comfortable with it, I can work with it, its not my call. But I
dont want him in the Adriatic.
> I'd be okay with it passing through Tys and/or Ion if my fleets occupied
> Nap and Tun. A 4th fleet might come in handy. But with Turkey's forces
> so land-oriented, any attack on him is going to need to come from southern
> Russia - we'll never be able to penetrate his naval defenses
We will make it happen.
Andy
Message from Austria to Germany
Erik,
You do realize that with every italian dot you take, you make French and
Turk that much stronger....
Message from Italy to Austria
> B) As soon as I can get one to you. If I had the position to do so, I
> would support you to Greece this year, and I might have the position in
> the fall.
Uh how are you possibly going to have position to do so this fall? I
can barely paint a reasonable position that you'd have ths position to do
so NEXT fall.
Which doesn't change the fact that I agree that something needs to happen
about Turkey, I just am not seeing anything happening for at least a year.
1) How can AIR attack against Turkey, given full AIR cooperation?
2) How long can AIR maintain full cooperation?
These are the big questions to answer...
Message from Italy to Russia
So, tactically, how can AIR proceed against TUrkey, if you are in fact
up for that (I'm assuming that you are based on Turkey's re-entry into
Moscow)
On the northern front, it seems that if I am fully engaged with Turkey,
then I would need to dis-engage with France. I think Tamas would agree to
that, but an obvious condition is that I not attack him with you and
Germany.
In other news, Tamas in an offhand way seemed to suggest that Germany
leaked to him that he wished Kie-Hol to fail. I believe it, which makes
me even less anxious to work with him. Heck if I could be convinced that
Tamas would let you and I take most of the spoils, I could almost be
convinced to do FIR vs. G. The only problem remains what to do once
Germany is gone - could either of us (or both of us together) stop France
if we're also trying to contain Turkey? Or would France just sit and
waive builds and such while we finish off Turkey? DOubtful on both
counts...
Thoughts?
Message from Austria to Italy
> > B) As soon as I can get one to you. If I had the position to do so, I
> > would support you to Greece this year, and I might have the position in
> > the fall.
>
> Uh how are you possibly going to have position to do so this fall? I
> can barely paint a reasonable position that you'd have ths position to do
> so NEXT fall.
I almost said....Lets call it a secret for the time being, but thought
that might not sit really well with you right now.
Well....this is all assuming that the Russian carries out his
threat...which he has reassured me he is doing.
This is the only window in which the Turk can take Warsaw.
Warsaw is supporting Vienna to Gal.
Budapest is supporting Serbia - Rumania
if the Turk takes warsaw with Gal, Warsaw retreats to the Ukraine
the likely way for turkey to try to take Serbia is Rum supporting Bul....
We swap centers in Ser and Rum, but Russia has an army in Ukraine.
And I have Serbia surrounded, in Tri, Bud, Rum, Gal... we get a Turkish
dot.
> 1) How can AIR attack against Turkey, given full AIR cooperation?
I just outlined the land war.
> 2) How long can AIR maintain full cooperation?
As long as Russia is on board, we seem to be doing alright.
Andy
Message from Germany to Turkey
Frankly, I haven't sent much press because a.) you haven't, either and b.)
having the Italian bouncing around my home centers has kind of taken the wind
out of my sails.
Not sure what's going on with F/R. France has sworn his loyalty to a joint anti-
Russian cause, and has more or less followed through in his actions; Russia has
sworn loyalty to a joint anti-French cause, and at least had the decency not to
take Sweden.
What's a German leader to do?
Kaiser Erik
Message from Germany to Austria
Yes, I'm aware of that. Last season's move were intended to get Italy out of
Germany and into French territory. Didn't quite work that way.
I'm also aware that there's all sorts of machinations going on between
everyone, and that's made any sort of long-term planning sort of worthless. I
am, frankly, a little weary, and I need to spend some time looking at the map,
which I've glanced at for five minutes in the past two or three days, due to
other things draining my energy.
I will get back to you after the builds.
Kaiser Erik
Message from Italy to Austria
Okay that looks pretty good. There are some holes of course, but it's
hard to detail a fool proof plan when we are out-numberd as we are. Given
what I've seen out of the Turk, odds are good that that plan will succeed.
The big weakness is Gal-Bud, Bul S Rum-Ser, but hopefully Turkey won't go
there. It's also risky (since it risks Bud-Rum) and he seems pretty
risk-averse.
So anyway, what good does my unit in Berlin do? What is your unit in
Tyrolia doing? What I'm getting at is why can't I just keep A Tus, and,
assuming things go well in spring, retake Venice in the fall. I know it's
never fun to potentially remove, but since I think it's inevitable that
Germany will make a play at Berlin. So you're asking me to go down to 3
centers so you can stay at 5?
Sure there are other options (like Bur,Tyl S Ber-Mun), but they're not as
good really.
I mean I'm always willing to keep you from a removal if it would crumble
our line, but from what I see, your A Tyl is not currently doing anything
an Italian unit couldn't do.
At this point I"m just bringing it up - it's not at the point where I'm
saying give me Venice this turn or I'll implode to Turkey or France. I
don't even want to go there, and I think that between the two of us we can
work something out.
Thoughts?
Message from Turkey to Germany
>Frankly, I haven't sent much press because a.) you haven't, either and b.)
>having the Italian bouncing around my home centers has kind of taken the wind
>out of my sails.
I'll admit to not sending that much press but now we have more to
talk about. However, since we have waited so long, diplomacy might be
difficult.
>
>Not sure what's going on with F/R. France has sworn his loyalty to a
>joint anti-
>Russian cause, and has more or less followed through in his actions;
>Russia has
>sworn loyalty to a joint anti-French cause, and at least had the
>decency not to
>take Sweden.
>
>What's a German leader to do?
I think you have your priorities right....hold off France while
trying to convince Russia not to eat you up.
I need a strong ally in one of you such that France doesn't solo. If
Russia decides to attack me, would you be willing to squash him?
While you may give up a little to France, Russia could be eliminated
and you could control the Scand and ST. Pete centers which would
ensure you are around for part of a draw.
Also, if you want, I can try to get italy to remove his lone unit up there.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Italy,
I don't think it looks that bad for you. Remove your northern army ,
which never had any future, and take advantage of France and myself
not working together...and me attacking Austria full-on.
Of course now that you are firmly in the Ionian, I would like some assurances.
if you were to move on France, I will support you into Venice. You
don't have to worry about me attacking you for a while. 1) I need to
kill Austria first, and 2) i need you to block French expansion.
However, if you sit on the fence and play conservatively (i.e. not
like you played at the start), I would imagine you will eventually
get squeezed out?
turkey
Message from Austria to Italy
> So anyway, what good does my unit in Berlin do? What is your unit in
> Tyrolia doing?
Supporting VEN - TRI, to make sure it gets there.
What I'm getting at is why can't I just keep A Tus, and,
> assuming things go well in spring, retake Venice in the fall. I know it's
> never fun to potentially remove, but since I think it's inevitable that
> Germany will make a play at Berlin. So you're asking me to go down to 3
> centers so you can stay at 5?
Because if you want me to walk away from your border, I have to feel
comfortable doing it, and with a bored army in Tuscany I REALLY dont feel
comfortable.
> I mean I'm always willing to keep you from a removal if it would crumble
> our line, but from what I see, your A Tyl is not currently doing anything
> an Italian unit couldn't do.
You are making suggestions that are phenomenally one-sided here.
You not only are asking me to disband, you are asking me to intermix our
units....
There is no downside at all for you, and I take all the risk.
> At this point I"m just bringing it up - it's not at the point where I'm
> saying give me Venice this turn or I'll implode to Turkey or France. I
> don't even want to go there, and I think that between the two of us we can
> work something out.
>
> Thoughts?
First and foremost, I think if I disband at this point, my position is
dead, and Turkey will get all my dots, except maybe Venice.
I am touching Turkish units on all of my borders, the only dot I have
which doesnt touch a turkish unit is in Venice.
Thanks to the Russian's help, the Turk is in a great position to just
continue to beat down on me, since noone is really challenging him but me.
Hopefully the Russian turning to help me, will change some things.
I am in a very very tough position.
Message from Russia to Turkey
> Dude, I'm not attacking you. I moved to Moscow to bounce you.
To quote from "Animal House", *cough* bullshit *cough*.
> With Den and Swe, you could have been at 6 centers this turn,
Of course, I couldn't have built three, and if I hadn't supported Ukr-Gal
as I promised to, you'd have been in Ukr and pissed, so I had no
motive to stab.
> with me going down one...I couldn't let that happen.
Why not? You've got four Fleets sitting in the Eastern Med not doing
anything. Now you've got an Army in Moscow doing absolutely zero
to advance you against Austria, and it forces me to defend StP, so it
screws up my moves to stop France, who is building again this year.
> You can have Moscow this turn, as i think I
> will surely get an Austrian center to make up for it.
You'd better move back to Sev this Spring, then.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Sorry my last reply was more heated than it should have been.
Eric.
Message from Italy to Austria
> Because if you want me to walk away from your border, I have to feel
> comfortable doing it, and with a bored army in Tuscany I REALLY dont feel
> comfortable.
That's reasonable. I'd say it's also reasonable that I don't feel
comfortable with a plan that is all but guaranteed to see me drop to 3
centers this year.
> You are making suggestions that are phenomenally one-sided here.
I could say the same thing.
> You not only are asking me to disband, you are asking me to intermix our
> units....
No - my units would stop at Venice.
> First and foremost, I think if I disband at this point, my position is
> dead, and Turkey will get all my dots, except maybe Venice.
Well after thinking about things I'm going to go ahead and disband A Tus,
though I think you're selling your position short. Either that or you're
over-hyping your position in your other emails. I mean you just told me in
an email earlier today about how you could support me to Greece this fall.
It's either one or the other...
Guess we'll see how things work out...
Message from Austria to Italy
>
> > Because if you want me to walk away from your border, I have to feel
> > comfortable doing it, and with a bored army in Tuscany I REALLY dont feel
> > comfortable.
>
> That's reasonable. I'd say it's also reasonable that I don't feel
> comfortable with a plan that is all but guaranteed to see me drop to 3
> centers this year.
>
That is fair also.
> > You are making suggestions that are phenomenally one-sided here.
>
> I could say the same thing.
you could....I wouldnt agree with you completely.
> > You not only are asking me to disband, you are asking me to intermix our
> > units....
>
> No - my units would stop at Venice.
>
Oh...thats very different....I thought you were suggesting that the army
in Berlin get involved where it might land somewhere like Galacia.
> > First and foremost, I think if I disband at this point, my position is
> > dead, and Turkey will get all my dots, except maybe Venice.
>
> Well after thinking about things I'm going to go ahead and disband A Tus,
> though I think you're selling your position short. Either that or you're
> over-hyping your position in your other emails. I mean you just told me in
> an email earlier today about how you could support me to Greece this fall.
> It's either one or the other...
Well....you make a good point. But if you take Venice and Russia doesnt
work with me, Turkey takes all my dots.
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
> Oh...thats very different....I thought you were suggesting that the army
> in Berlin get involved where it might land somewhere like Galacia.
Well, if I keep the army in Berlin, what else am I going to do with it but
send it to Silesia or somewhere over there? Work with GR against France?
CAn't happen or France will interfere in the Med. Work with F against G?
Not so good since then France will become dominant in the north. The
argument against our inter-mixing is an argument for keeping A Tus, not
that we really have time to talk about this in depth (since teh deadaline
is real soon and I'm about to go to bed)
> Well....you make a good point. But if you take Venice and Russia doesnt
> work with me, Turkey takes all my dots.
Given. That's why I was saying I would only take it if things went well
in spring.
Message from Austria to Italy
> > Well....you make a good point. But if you take Venice and Russia doesnt
> > work with me, Turkey takes all my dots.
>
> Given. That's why I was saying I would only take it if things went well
> in spring.
sounds fair.
take care
Andy
England: REMOVE Fleet North Atlantic Ocean (*no order*)
France: BUILD Fleet Brest
Germany: WAIVE
Italy: REMOVE Army Berlin
Centers
Austria: 5
France: 9
Germany: 5
Italy: 4
Russia: 3
Turkey: 8
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