|
|
Message from Austria to France
Tamas,
Its been a while since we spoke.
I need you to give me some space so that I can actually turn
on the Turk....you have a full court press going on and I am starting
to actually have the position and power to do it.
But I am going to need a little bit of space.
Can you help me out here.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria
******NOTE JUST TO YOU*********
>
>> between you and me, you see this going to a 3WD right?
>
>Yes.
good.
>But when we go to take him out. we need to take him out all at
>once....period.
Yes, I agree. And of course, I need to time it with what France is
doing, not doing.
>
>He has just enough units and power to make our lives miserable.
>
>When do you think we need to move....I would say ...soon.
i would like to move sooner than France talks me into moving vs.
Italy so that we control what is happening on the board, and not
France.
>
>I would even say.....now.
>
>Do you think its time??
I think it is...but like I said we need to manipulate France and
Italy at the same time.
France seems interested in taking Tunis, in exchange for giving me
STP. he is wanting to do this with an Army into Tunis. for a 3WD,
that seems like a good setup to prevent a French solo, do you agree?
if that were to happen this turn, then we could order:
apu s tyr-ven
tyr-ven
vie-tri
ion-nap
tys s ion-nap
Tunis and Ven/Nap are destroyed with there being no retreats.
then in the fall, we just need to take Rom, which should be rather easy.
some other things;
1) we still maintain 3way press with Italy, however, it is all
complete bullshit..the only press that will matter will be direct
press between the two of us.
2) do we get France to convoy Pie instead of MAR?
3) Do we request France attack Kie?
anything else?
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Yes, I agree. And of course, I need to time it with what
France is
> doing, not doing.
Agreed, he isnt talk to me.
> >He has just enough units and power to make our lives miserable.
> >
> >When do you think we need to move....I would say ...soon.
>
> i would like to move sooner than France talks me into moving vs.
> Italy so that we control what is happening on the board, and not
> France.
Agreed.
> >I would even say.....now.
> >
> >Do you think its time??
>
>
> I think it is...but like I said we need to manipulate France and
> Italy at the same time.
Italy shouldnt be too tough.
> France seems interested in taking Tunis, in exchange for giving me
> STP. he is wanting to do this with an Army into Tunis. for a 3WD,
> that seems like a good setup to prevent a French solo, do you agree?
If we are giving Tunis to the French, who gets Rome.
I would like it, if for no other reason I am in the best position to hold
it.
> if that were to happen this turn, then we could order:
>
> apu s tyr-ven
> tyr-ven
> vie-tri
> ion-nap
> tys s ion-nap
And AEG - ION
> Tunis and Ven/Nap are destroyed with there being no retreats.
Well...there is ROME for the Venitian army.
> then in the fall, we just need to take Rom, which should be rather easy.
>
> some other things;
>
> 1) we still maintain 3way press with Italy, however, it is all
> complete bullshit..the only press that will matter will be direct
> press between the two of us.
Works for me.
> 2) do we get France to convoy Pie instead of MAR?
Let him convoy Marsaille, we will talk the Italian into moving up to PIE
with support from Tuscany and you offering to tap Marsaille for him.
> 3) Do we request France attack Kie?
I dont see how we can stop him.....I would acutally REALLY like to see
France back off of Munich and take down Scandanavia. Giving me Berlin and
Kiel in the process
> anything else?
>
Not that I can think of off the top of my head. At least in regards to
Italy...
in the east, Support yourself to MOS from UKR and I will support you from
WAR, and move GAL up to SIL
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria
>
>> France seems interested in taking Tunis, in exchange for giving me
>> STP. he is wanting to do this with an Army into Tunis. for a 3WD,
>> that seems like a good setup to prevent a French solo, do you agree?
>
>If we are giving Tunis to the French, who gets Rome.
I think I should get Rome, Naples, STP
You get Kie, Ber and Venice.
France will surely take Scand and we can call a draw.
I think I won't have a problem holding Rome, do you have a specific
set of moves otherwise?
>
>I would like it, if for no other reason I am in the best position to hold
>it.
>
>> if that were to happen this turn, then we could order:
>>
>> apu s tyr-ven
>> tyr-ven
>> vie-tri
>> ion-nap
>> tys s ion-nap
>
>And AEG - ION
yes
>
>> Tunis and Ven/Nap are destroyed with there being no retreats.
>
>
>Well...there is ROME for the Venitian army.
Either Nap or Ven will be able to retreat to Rome, he will have to choose.
>
>
>> 2) do we get France to convoy Pie instead of MAR?
>
>Let him convoy Marsaille, we will talk the Italian into moving up to PIE
>with support from Tuscany and you offering to tap Marsaille for him.
ok, I'll do the talking with France, you do the talking with Italy.
>
>> 3) Do we request France attack Kie?
>
>I dont see how we can stop him.....I would acutally REALLY like to see
>France back off of Munich and take down Scandanavia. Giving me Berlin and
>Kiel in the process
I will ask him to take Scand.
but I should point out that he wants a 2WD, and keeps nagging me
about letting you grow. So until the cat is out of the bag, i can't
ask for him to give you Kie/Ber..that would be too obvious. Once we
pull of this set of moves and the cat IS out of the bag, that is no
problem in negotiation.
>
>> anything else?
>>
>
>Not that I can think of off the top of my head. At least in regards to
>Italy...
>
>in the east, Support yourself to MOS from UKR and I will support you from
>WAR, and move GAL up to SIL
ok.
and send some bullshit press to Italy.
i'll keep you up to date with what France is telling me.
and lastly, we need to make 100% sure toward the end of the turn that
our orders are exact. for this turn, we can't afford ANY
miscom...like leaving a hole for France or Italy keeping an extra
unit.
turkey
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
Gentlemen,
If we are going to get our orders in ahead of time, we need to
collectively get our acts together...hopefully my work life will allow me
to be more talkative over the next 2 days.
There are a few things we need to do...
1. We need to get the French out of Piedmont...
2. We need to get into the Western Med.
3. We need to hold the Munich line.
1....VEN - PIE
TUS s VEN - PIE
LY0 - MAR
it pops the army unless its already going backwards.
2. My suspicion is that either WES or SPA(SC) are moving to LYO with
support,
TUN s TYS - WES
ION s TUN
TYS - WES
NAP - TYS or Hold
3. France can take Munich from me with the Germans help.
Hopefully that wont happen, it wont be available to him in the fall
Feedback...Please
Message from Austria to Turkey
> >If we are giving Tunis to the French, who gets Rome.
>
> I think I should get Rome, Naples, STP
>
> You get Kie, Ber and Venice.
>
> France will surely take Scand and we can call a draw.
This all sounds fine to me. Have you gotten any discourse from the
French..
I told him I wanted him to back off me so that I could attack you....he
didnt respond, which to me tells me that he has passed that info on to
you. You do know better than to believe that I am attacking you...right??
> >> apu s tyr-ven
> >> tyr-ven
> >> vie-tri
> >> ion-nap
> >> tys s ion-nap
> >
> >And AEG - ION
>
> yes
>
Good...we are on then.
> >> Tunis and Ven/Nap are destroyed with there being no retreats.
> >
> >
> >Well...there is ROME for the Venitian army.
>
>
> Either Nap or Ven will be able to retreat to Rome, he will have to choose.
Good Point.
> >> 2) do we get France to convoy Pie instead of MAR?
> >
> >Let him convoy Marsaille, we will talk the Italian into moving up to PIE
> >with support from Tuscany and you offering to tap Marsaille for him.
The French retreat to Marsaille.
> ok, I'll do the talking with France, you do the talking with Italy.
No problem.
> >> 3) Do we request France attack Kie?
> >
> >I dont see how we can stop him.....I would acutally REALLY like to see
> >France back off of Munich and take down Scandanavia. Giving me Berlin and
> >Kiel in the process
> I will ask him to take Scand.
>
> but I should point out that he wants a 2WD, and keeps nagging me
> about letting you grow.
Just keep repeating that you are not comfortable with a 2 way draw until
you catch up to him and get some position; That means that he needs to
back off the stalemate line, or at the very least not go forward.
So until the cat is out of the bag, i can't
> ask for him to give you Kie/Ber..that would be too obvious. Once we
> pull of this set of moves and the cat IS out of the bag, that is no
> problem in negotiation.
But if he simply doesnt attack me, I can get to them.
> and send some bullshit press to Italy.
Done earlier.
> and lastly, we need to make 100% sure toward the end of the turn that
> our orders are exact. for this turn, we can't afford ANY
> miscom...like leaving a hole for France or Italy keeping an extra
> unit.
No problem.
Andy
Message from France to Austria
Andy,
> But I am going to need a little bit of space.
>
> Can you help me out here.
Would be easier if you had built F Tri, but I am thinking
about a safe plan right now.
Tamas
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>
>If we are going to get our orders in ahead of time, we need to
>collectively get our acts together...hopefully my work life will allow me
>to be more talkative over the next 2 days.
>
>There are a few things we need to do...
>
>1. We need to get the French out of Piedmont...
>2. We need to get into the Western Med.
>3. We need to hold the Munich line.
>
>
>1....VEN - PIE
> TUS s VEN - PIE
> LY0 - MAR
does this risk lyo getting destroyed?
>
>it pops the army unless its already going backwards.
>
>2. My suspicion is that either WES or SPA(SC) are moving to LYO with
> support,
>
> TUN s TYS - WES
> ION s TUN
> TYS - WES
> NAP - TYS or Hold
should we play defensively here, or take a gamble on attack Wes?
>
>3. France can take Munich from me with the Germans help.
What I don't understand is why Germany is helping France?
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
> >There are a few things we need to do...
> >
> >1. We need to get the French out of Piedmont...
> >2. We need to get into the Western Med.
> >3. We need to hold the Munich line.
> >
> >
> >1....VEN - PIE
> > TUS s VEN - PIE
> > LY0 - MAR
>
> does this risk lyo getting destroyed?
>
No. If WES is the mover to attack LYO, we get into WES with support from
TUN. And LYO retreats to TYS
If WES is the supporting unit, TYS cuts support.
> >
> >2. My suspicion is that either WES or SPA(SC) are moving to LYO with
> > support,
> >
> > TUN s TYS - WES
> > ION s TUN
> > TYS - WES
> > NAP - TYS or Hold
>
> should we play defensively here, or take a gamble on attack Wes?
>
I dont think its a gamble. We either get WES or trade WES for LYO short
term, and its a trade that is good for us, if France dislodges WES, you
can retreat to MAO
> >3. France can take Munich from me with the Germans help.
>
> What I don't understand is why Germany is helping France?
>
Either do I.
Message from Turkey to Austria
austria,
>
>This all sounds fine to me. Have you gotten any discourse from the
>French..
Not really, he is waiting for me to decide on when I will let him into tunis.
Would there be any utility in making him wait a year on that? Could
we successfully attack italy first? Or maybe lie to the French re:
convoy to Tunis, kill Tunis ourselves and attack italy...i'd have to
look at the board closely...but immediately i don't see that working
too well.
>
>I told him I wanted him to back off me so that I could attack you....he
>didnt respond, which to me tells me that he has passed that info on to
>you. You do know better than to believe that I am attacking you...right??
yes, if you attack me, then you have to trust France not to solo.
>Just keep repeating that you are not comfortable with a 2 way draw until
>you catch up to him and get some position; That means that he needs to
>back off the stalemate line, or at the very least not go forward.
good advice--I think i will do that.
>
> So until the cat is out of the bag, i can't
>> ask for him to give you Kie/Ber..that would be too obvious. Once we
>> pull of this set of moves and the cat IS out of the bag, that is no
>> problem in negotiation.
>
>But if he simply doesnt attack me, I can get to them.
true, I will put that out there for france...telling him to let you
get those SC's...i'll let you know what he says.
turkey
Message from Austria to Turkey
Andrew,
> >This all sounds fine to me. Have you gotten any discourse from the
> >French..
>
> Not really, he is waiting for me to decide on when I will let him into tunis.
Tell him that you have to see how this spring turns out, and they you can
tell him if its this fall, or next year.
> Would there be any utility in making him wait a year on that? Could
> we successfully attack italy first? Or maybe lie to the French re:
> convoy to Tunis, kill Tunis ourselves and attack italy...i'd have to
> look at the board closely...but immediately i don't see that working
> too well.
Absolutely.
Actually it could work out quite well. You could have NaP and TuN and I
could get VEN and ROM. And if the French dont play nicely on the 3 way
draw, I cede ROM to you later so that you can build.
Spring:
ION - TUN
TYS s ION - TUN
AEG - ION
APU s TYR - VEN
LYO s VEN - PIE
And its up to you whether you actually give TUN to the French.
But lets look at it and see if its prudent or not.
Fall:
APU s VEN - ROM
LYO - TUS
TYS - NAP
ION s TYS - NAP
TUN h
TRI - VEN
> >I told him I wanted him to back off me so that I could attack you....he
> >didnt respond, which to me tells me that he has passed that info on to
> >you. You do know better than to believe that I am attacking you...right??
>
> yes, if you attack me, then you have to trust France not to solo.
>
Yeah....right. Its not going to happen.
> > So until the cat is out of the bag, i can't
> >> ask for him to give you Kie/Ber..that would be too obvious. Once we
> >> pull of this set of moves and the cat IS out of the bag, that is no
> >> problem in negotiation.
> >
> >But if he simply doesnt attack me, I can get to them.
>
> true, I will put that out there for france...telling him to let you
> get those SC's...i'll let you know what he says.
>
Thanks
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria
austria,
>Actually it could work out quite well. You could have NaP and TuN and I
>could get VEN and ROM. And if the French dont play nicely on the 3 way
>draw, I cede ROM to you later so that you can build.
>
>Spring:
>
>ION - TUN
>TYS s ION - TUN
>AEG - ION
>APU s TYR - VEN
>LYO s VEN - PIE
If I lie to France, then we don't have to worry about
wes-tun
naf s wes-tun
spa-wes or lyo
France should be worried about
a supported attack on WES, no?
If we order the above, what do we try to sell to the Italian?
I would worry that if both France and myself attack Tunis, then tunis
lives. and then in Tus-Nap-Tun will support France into Tys in the
fall.
does apu s tyr-ven
and tys s ion-nap, kill one or the other of Nap or Ven?
After thinking through all of that, I think the best thing would be
to actually get France to order the Mar-tun convoy, killing tunis, on
his own, then at the same time we get Ven and nap, killing another
Italian unit..I think that is the least amount of risk. however,
once France has an army in Tunis, it is there to stay?
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
What do you think about Apu-Pie? Potentially risky, depending on whether
Tyl S Apu-Pie and Tus S Lyo or Tus S Apu-Pie, but that might be our best
move. If not that, then I think that we should support Lyo-Pie and
continue to shuffle our fleets up.
I think it highly likely that he will take Munich in the spring, so we
should try to come up with a plan to retake it in fall, including leaving
a place for it to retreat. Maybe war-Pru, Gal S Boh-Sil, Mun R Boh?
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
>
> What do you think about Apu-Pie? Potentially risky, depending on whether
> Tyl S Apu-Pie and Tus S Lyo or Tus S Apu-Pie, but that might be our best
> move. If not that, then I think that we should support Lyo-Pie and
> continue to shuffle our fleets up.
This risks Tunis, and takes up out of position by retreating LYO.
What is the problem with moving Venice?? We really do need an army in
Piedmont.
> I think it highly likely that he will take Munich in the spring, so we
> should try to come up with a plan to retake it in fall, including leaving
> a place for it to retreat. Maybe war-Pru, Gal S Boh-Sil, Mun R Boh?
He cant, unless Piedmont is cutting support in Tyrolia, which, if we
attack it as described, pops the army
Message from Austria to Italy
Mario,
What is bothering you.....suddenly you have gotten very quiet and
extremely conservative.
Help me out here.
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> This risks Tunis, and takes up out of position by retreating LYO.
Slight risk to Tunis, but Ven S Lyo-Pie, Tus S Tys-Lyo, Ion-Tys is pretty
risk free, since Tunis could retreat to Ion. Or maybe we could let Tus
move to Lyo, with Tys-Wes to cut support.
> What is the problem with moving Venice?? We really do need an army in
> Piedmont.
Not really. What can A Pie do that F Pie can not? Only affect Tyrolia,
which A Ven can do just as well. Now an army in Marseilles yes that is
handy, but that can be accomplished with F Pie S A Tus-Lyo-Mar. Maybe we
could do A Apu-Rom this spring, and Rom-Tus in the fall, to then convoy
next spring? Or maybe we keep it in Apu to convoy Apu-Mar in fall?
> > I think it highly likely that he will take Munich in the spring, so we
> > should try to come up with a plan to retake it in fall, including leaving
> > a place for it to retreat. Maybe war-Pru, Gal S Boh-Sil, Mun R Boh?
>
> He cant, unless Piedmont is cutting support in Tyrolia, which, if we
> attack it as described, pops the army
Right. I'm just saying that I think it's highly likely that we will pop
Piedmont and he will cut support in Tyrolia and he will take Munich. So
we should provide for a plan to retake Mun or Ber in fall. Though I don't
think we can guarantee it. Spa can support Mar, which would let us take
Wes in the fall.
thoughts?
Message from Italy to Austria
Well, I don't think I've gotten conservative. Here's the thing. I
have been operating under the idea that you and I were attempting to
draw Turkey out, send him north and west around our units and then, once
he wa sway out of position, we stab him and move to eliminate him. Is
this not the plan? As such, I want it to be Turkey's units (not mine)
that advance west.
I mean, we get him moving west and without a build (which is certainly
realistic) then we could easily make a devastating stab on him within the
next year or 2 that he would be powerless to stop. You move through the
Balkans, I take the Ion and have Turkey proper laid wide open to me, while
his units are in places like PIedmont, Wes, Naf, etc.
If you've got another plan, let's talk about it.
More in a joint message to follow.
Message from Austria to Italy
> Well, I don't think I've gotten conservative. Here's the thing. I
> have been operating under the idea that you and I were attempting to
> draw Turkey out, send him north and west around our units and then, once
> he wa sway out of position, we stab him and move to eliminate him. Is
> this not the plan? As such, I want it to be Turkey's units (not mine)
> that advance west.
I have been operating under the same set of rules. But the Turk is
noticing that you arent moving at all...you have hunkered down on the boot
and he thinks you are going to stab him.
Sometimes you have to give alittle to get alot.
> I mean, we get him moving west and without a build (which is certainly
> realistic) then we could easily make a devastating stab on him within the
> next year or 2 that he would be powerless to stop.
We arent going to be able to keep him from building for 2 years.
You move through the
> Balkans, I take the Ion and have Turkey proper laid wide open to me, while
> his units are in places like PIedmont, Wes, Naf, etc.
Well...I need to keep what I have to do that. And yes it would be nice to
strand him that far from home, I think you are being too optimistic.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
>
> > This risks Tunis, and takes up out of position by retreating LYO.
>
> Slight risk to Tunis,
What else are those two units going to do.
but Ven S Lyo-Pie, Tus S Tys-Lyo, Ion-Tys is pretty
> risk free, since Tunis could retreat to Ion. Or maybe we could let Tus
> move to Lyo, with Tys-Wes to cut support.
That might work. But its still risky...do you really want to give th
French the other end of the stalemate line
> > What is the problem with moving Venice?? We really do need an army in
> > Piedmont.
>
> Not really. What can A Pie do that F Pie can not? Only affect Tyrolia,
> which A Ven can do just as well.
So...what you are telling me is that you never intend on moving Venice.
Now an army in Marseilles yes that is
> handy, but that can be accomplished with F Pie S A Tus-Lyo-Mar. Maybe we
> could do A Apu-Rom this spring, and Rom-Tus in the fall, to then convoy
> next spring? Or maybe we keep it in Apu to convoy Apu-Mar in fall?
Then we need to talk about this stuff rather than leaving it up in the
air.
> > > I think it highly likely that he will take Munich in the spring, so we
> > > should try to come up with a plan to retake it in fall, including leaving
> > > a place for it to retreat. Maybe war-Pru, Gal S Boh-Sil, Mun R Boh?
> >
> > He cant, unless Piedmont is cutting support in Tyrolia, which, if we
> > attack it as described, pops the army
>
> Right. I'm just saying that I think it's highly likely that we will pop
> Piedmont and he will cut support in Tyrolia and he will take Munich. So
> we should provide for a plan to retake Mun or Ber in fall. Though I don't
> think we can guarantee it. Spa can support Mar, which would let us take
> Wes in the fall.
>
> thoughts?
>
I think it would be a mistake for him to take Munich in the spring.
He cant hold it.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> That might work. But its still risky...do you really want to give th
> French the other end of the stalemate line
What do you mean?
> So...what you are telling me is that you never intend on moving Venice.
No. But it doesn't seem like now is the best time to do so.
>
> Now an army in Marseilles yes that is
> > handy, but that can be accomplished with F Pie S A Tus-Lyo-Mar. Maybe we
> > could do A Apu-Rom this spring, and Rom-Tus in the fall, to then convoy
> > next spring? Or maybe we keep it in Apu to convoy Apu-Mar in fall?
>
> Then we need to talk about this stuff rather than leaving it up in the
> air.
And here we are.
> I think it would be a mistake for him to take Munich in the spring.
>
> He cant hold it.
I disagree.
Bur, Ruh S Ber-Mun, Pie-Tyl, Kie-Ber, Hol-Kie, Swe-Bal holds Mun and Ber
against any possible attack we throw at it in the fall.
Message from Italy to Austria
> I have been operating under the same set of rules. But the Turk is
> noticing that you arent moving at all...you have hunkered down on the boot
> and he thinks you are going to stab him.
>
> Sometimes you have to give alittle to get alot.
>
> > I mean, we get him moving west and without a build (which is certainly
> > realistic) then we could easily make a devastating stab on him within the
> > next year or 2 that he would be powerless to stop.
>
> We arent going to be able to keep him from building for 2 years.
Well, where's his next build going to come from?
> Well...I need to keep what I have to do that. And yes it would be nice to
> strand him that far from home, I think you are being too optimistic.
Maybe. But what is your plan then?
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
> > That might work. But its still risky...do you really want to give th
> > French the other end of the stalemate line
>
> What do you mean?
France is likely to get STP, and say he going to take Munich, do you want
to risk giving him Tunis so that he has all 3 parts of the stalemate line.
> > Now an army in Marseilles yes that is
> > > handy, but that can be accomplished with F Pie S A Tus-Lyo-Mar. Maybe we
> > > could do A Apu-Rom this spring, and Rom-Tus in the fall, to then convoy
> > > next spring? Or maybe we keep it in Apu to convoy Apu-Mar in fall?
> >
> > Then we need to talk about this stuff rather than leaving it up in the
> > air.
>
> And here we are.
I think being more vocal about the way YOU want to do things is a good
idea. That is all.
> > I think it would be a mistake for him to take Munich in the spring.
> >
> > He cant hold it.
>
> I disagree.
>
> Bur, Ruh S Ber-Mun, Pie-Tyl, Kie-Ber, Hol-Kie, Swe-Bal holds Mun and Ber
> against any possible attack we throw at it in the fall.
And you think he is going to give the German Munich.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> France is likely to get STP, and say he going to take Munich, do you want
> to risk giving him Tunis so that he has all 3 parts of the stalemate line.
Ah. Gotcha. No, I don't particularly want to give him Tunis, but I think
he is unlikely to attack Tunis.
> I think being more vocal about the way YOU want to do things is a good
> idea. That is all.
Okay.
> And you think he is going to give the German Munich.
Sure - why not? He can always take it back whenever he feels like it.
Germany is puppeting for France at this point.
Message from Austria to France
If I build a fleet in Trieste, I totally spook the Italian and Turk sees
me coming.
Tamas, I am a better player than that.
The single thing that I need you to do this year, is not take Munich, and
not assist the German to Munich.
Will you do that for me??
thanks
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
Italy and Austria,
just opened email from both of you...it seems there is a little
disagreement, although I can't tell exactly what it is going to
result in for moves.
Can both of you put out the list of moves you were planning on
order/wanted others to order? Maybe that will help move the
discussion along????
My opinion for an overall plan is to hold France, while, if possible,
getting rid of Russia and Germany
Message from Austria to Italy
> > > I mean, we get him moving west and without a build (which is certainly
> > > realistic) then we could easily make a devastating stab on him within the
> > > next year or 2 that he would be powerless to stop.
> >
> > We arent going to be able to keep him from building for 2 years.
>
> Well, where's his next build going to come from?
Probably Spain
>
> > Well...I need to keep what I have to do that. And yes it would be nice to
> > strand him that far from home, I think you are being too optimistic.
>
> Maybe. But what is your plan then?
To keep doing what we have talked about but you are going to need to show
him something in the next year or so or he is just not going to keep
moving.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
> Italy and Austria,
> just opened email from both of you...it seems there is a little
> disagreement, although I can't tell exactly what it is going to
> result in for moves.
How about this...
VEN s TUS - PIE
TUS - PIE
NAP h
TUN s TYS - WES
ION - TYS
TYS - WES
APU h
AEG - ION
RUM - UKR
UKR - MOS
SEV s UKR - MOS
TYR s MUN
BOH s MUN
VIE - GAL
GAL - WAR
WAR - PRU
Message from Austria to Turkey
Andrew,
I just thought about something...
Getting Venice doesnt do me any good if I am going to lose Munich.
And you building 2 doesnt do us any good if I stay even. I am on the front
line.
This is a problem
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
What about F Lyo? Mar to cut support?
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
>
> What about F Lyo? Mar to cut support?
>
>
Yes....sorry for leaving it off...
Message from Austria to Italy
Mario,
I have this feeling that the Turk is going to stab the hell out of you.
just a feeling.
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>
>
>VEN s TUS - PIE
>TUS - PIE
>NAP h
>TUN s TYS - WES
>
>ION - TYS
>TYS - WES
>APU h
>AEG - ION
>RUM - UKR
>UKR - MOS
>SEV s UKR - MOS
That looks good to me
>
>TYR s MUN
>BOH s MUN
>VIE - GAL
>GAL - WAR
>WAR - PRU
what about gal-sil? is that where MUNICH will retreat?
also, have we given up on diplomacy to get France to back off? What
happens if we tell him that if he doesn't let Austria keep
Munich-take Germany, then we are going to go for a 5WD including
Russia (or even a 6WD)? I don't see any way--even if Russia
misbehaves that France can solo now...not without splitting us up.
also, we haven't spoken about it, but we are all in agreement that
France can not be eliminated from this game and will autom share in a
draw.
Message from Turkey to Austria
>
>
>Getting Venice doesnt do me any good if I am going to lose Munich.
>
>And you building 2 doesnt do us any good if I stay even. I am on the front
>line.
>
>
>This is a problem
What do you propose to do to eliminate the problem?
I don't really think it matters one way or the other exactly how many
centers i have or you have. the difference is small.
there is no way you can come up with a scenario whereby Turkey (even
with a year of stabbing) could help see the elimination of
Austria--in a way that doesn't end in the French solo. you stab me,
France solos, i stab you, France solos, timing and a few centers
aren't going to matter a bit.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
>
> what about gal-sil? is that where MUNICH will retreat?
Yes.
> also, have we given up on diplomacy to get France to back off? What
> happens if we tell him that if he doesn't let Austria keep
> Munich-take Germany, then we are going to go for a 5WD including
> Russia (or even a 6WD)? I don't see any way--even if Russia
> misbehaves that France can solo now...not without splitting us up.
Oh...I do.
Assuming he takes MUN, KIE and BER...that puts him at 14, NWY, SWE and STP
give him 17, Tunis is 18.
Doesnt look too tough to me.
> also, we haven't spoken about it, but we are all in agreement that
> France can not be eliminated from this game and will autom share in a
> draw.
It would be VERY difficult to cut France out right now.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> Assuming he takes MUN, KIE and BER...that puts him at 14, NWY, SWE and STP
> give him 17, Tunis is 18.
Right - Tunis (or Mun or Ber) is the key.
> It would be VERY difficult to cut France out right now.
Agreed. But how rewarding! Wouldn't it be hilarious to hear him whine
for years! :-)
Message from Austria to Turkey
> >Getting Venice doesnt do me any good if I am going to lose Munich.
> >
> >And you building 2 doesnt do us any good if I stay even. I am on the front
> >line.
> >
> >This is a problem
>
>
> What do you propose to do to eliminate the problem?
See how the Spring goes and give me Rome if I lose Munich.
> I don't really think it matters one way or the other exactly how many
> centers i have or you have. the difference is small.
It matters in how many units I hve to hold the middle of the board.
> there is no way you can come up with a scenario whereby Turkey (even
> with a year of stabbing) could help see the elimination of
> Austria--in a way that doesn't end in the French solo. you stab me,
> France solos, i stab you, France solos, timing and a few centers
> aren't going to matter a bit.
Good point.
I think we tell the French that he can have Tunis this fall, as long as he
doesnt take Munich in the spring.
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>
>>
>> what about gal-sil? is that where MUNICH will retreat?
>
>Yes.
>
>> also, have we given up on diplomacy to get France to back off? What
>> happens if we tell him that if he doesn't let Austria keep
>> Munich-take Germany, then we are going to go for a 5WD including
>> Russia (or even a 6WD)? I don't see any way--even if Russia
>> misbehaves that France can solo now...not without splitting us up.
>
>Oh...I do.
>
>Assuming he takes MUN, KIE and BER...that puts him at 14, NWY, SWE and STP
He can't take STP, can he?
>give him 17, Tunis is 18.
as long as Italy and I cooperate..there is no way he can take
Tunis--so we are safe.
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
> > It would be VERY difficult to cut France out right now.
>
>Agreed. But how rewarding! Wouldn't it be hilarious to hear him whine
>for years! :-)
ok, let's start looking through how we are going to cut France out....
The only way I see is if GRIAT work together...or does someone see another way?
Message from Turkey to Austria
>See how the Spring goes and give me Rome if I lose Munich.
that works for me.
> > I don't really think it matters one way or the other exactly how many
>> centers i have or you have. the difference is small.
>
>It matters in how many units I hve to hold the middle of the board.
true...i don't need to units right now, and you do.
>
>I think we tell the French that he can have Tunis this fall, as long as he
>doesnt take Munich in the spring.
i will do that...but then do we attack Italy this spring? and how do
we do it? what do we expect France to order then?
Message from Austria to Turkey
> >See how the Spring goes and give me Rome if I lose Munich.
>
> that works for me.
Ok.
> > > I don't really think it matters one way or the other exactly how many
> >> centers i have or you have. the difference is small.
> >
> >It matters in how many units I hve to hold the middle of the board.
>
> true...i don't need to units right now, and you do.
Correct.
> >I think we tell the French that he can have Tunis this fall, as long as he
> >doesnt take Munich in the spring.
>
>
> i will do that...but then do we attack Italy this spring? and how do
> we do it? what do we expect France to order then?
Im not sure, as long as he knows that he needs to go take Scandanavia or
at least NOT attack or support an attack on Munich.
Lets do the attack on Italy.
Message from Turkey to Austria
>Im not sure, as long as he knows that he needs to go take Scandanavia or
>at least NOT attack or support an attack on Munich.
I expect the French to go completely crazy any minute now. In
addition to the demand of not taking Munich, I am going to try and
trade him STP for Tunis. I'm making my case, in press to him, that he
should give me Tunis, and in return he can have STP.
here is my thinking.
If russia ends up with an army in STP, then theoretically France
could take STP with army Fin, fleets Swe and BAR..and there is
nothing i could do about it.
Tunis is different though....if I get Tunis, then there is nothing he
can do about it. (as long as italy is dead)
>
>Lets do the attack on Italy.
yes, let's do that. I am going to try to get France to move wes
med-mao at the same time...or should I get him to do that FIRST
before we attack italy?
for some reason he keeps trying to paint the picture that he will do
everything I say and that he won't try to stab me because that would
be an insane move on his part. However, what I see, he could (and
has) lie and do whatever he wants..and there is nothing I could do to
punish him. (except help do a 4-5 WD..but I want him to explicitly
say that)...and I figure the best thign here is to buy us some time.
Message from Austria to Turkey
>
> >Im not sure, as long as he knows that he needs to go take Scandanavia or
> >at least NOT attack or support an attack on Munich.
>
> I expect the French to go completely crazy any minute now. In
> addition to the demand of not taking Munich, I am going to try and
> trade him STP for Tunis. I'm making my case, in press to him, that he
> should give me Tunis, and in return he can have STP.
>
Why would he go crazy, and how did he respond to the request of not taking
Munich.
> here is my thinking.
>
> If russia ends up with an army in STP, then theoretically France
> could take STP with army Fin, fleets Swe and BAR..and there is
> nothing i could do about it.
I know.
> Tunis is different though....if I get Tunis, then there is nothing he
> can do about it. (as long as italy is dead)
>
Correct. Its a good move.
> >Lets do the attack on Italy.
>
> yes, let's do that. I am going to try to get France to move wes
> med-mao at the same time...or should I get him to do that FIRST
> before we attack italy?
If you think he will do it now, ask for him to do it now.
> for some reason he keeps trying to paint the picture that he will do
> everything I say and that he won't try to stab me because that would
> be an insane move on his part. However, what I see, he could (and
> has) lie and do whatever he wants..and there is nothing I could do to
> punish him. (except help do a 4-5 WD..but I want him to explicitly
> say that)...and I figure the best thign here is to buy us some time.
That is what he wants you to believe. Just stick to your guns and
hopefully it will buy us some time.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria
>Why would he go crazy, and how did he respond to the request of not taking
>Munich.
he hasn't yet, this request was in the last email.
i'll let you know when I know (right now you know everything i do re:
situation)
Message from Austria to Turkey
>
> >Why would he go crazy, and how did he respond to the request of not taking
> >Munich.
>
> he hasn't yet, this request was in the last email.
>
> i'll let you know when I know (right now you know everything i do re:
> situation)
>
10-4
Message from Austria to Turkey
Tell me what you believe our moves are??
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
France is trying to get me to support his army to Tunis...what this
means is that we could order:
lyo and tun s tys-wes, to dislodge Wes.
and ion-tys.
Then with french in spa-mao-naf, and us in lyo-wes-tun, we have a 50%
shot of getting spain or Naf?..(if Mar can be tapped)
Therefore, might this be our opening re: France?
Am I missing something?
Message from Turkey to Austria
>Tell me what you believe our moves are??
sev s ukr-mos
war-pru
gal-war
(I assume you have russia supporting you to MOS)
mun,boh,vie,tyr..i don't know
rum-ukr
tys s ion-tun
ion-tun
lyo?
aeg-ion
apu s tyr-ven
and that last note to both you and Italy was serious...is that really
a hole that can be exploited?
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
ignore that last email re: attacking France. France is no longer
trying to talk himself into Tunis, and is probably ordering more or
less defensively.
Message from Austria to Turkey
>
>
> sev s ukr-mos
WAR s UKR - MOS
GAL - SIL
> (I assume you have russia supporting you to MOS)
>
> mun,boh,vie,tyr..i don't know
TYR - VEN
VIE - TRI
BOH s MUN
MUN s GAL - SIL or MUN s KIE....which do you think is better.
> rum-ukr
> tys s ion-tun
> ion-tun
> lyo?
support TYS
> aeg-ion
> apu s tyr-ven
>
Message from Turkey to Austria
one last thing...any interest in not attacking Italy this spring at
least? let's piff his Pie army, shore up our defenses and force the
issue with Russia..we still have ground to make there..and it is
somewhat of a race WRT to France.
This is all based on my discussions with France. I called his bluffs,
saw through his bs, then he laid out his positions clearly.
Basically he said he has secured his place in the draw and now is
just trying to see who wants to make it a smaller draw. So if we sit
here and whittle away at each other, I think that falls into his
hands...he is dictating the pace and progression of play.
If we don't eliminate Italy (or at least not immediately), then I
think he will start to get frustrated, which may not make a whole
big difference in the long run, but might give us more breathing room
(if we demand he retreats a little).
You have to look at how he has manipulated eveerything so far to his
advantage and how nicely he has gotten himself into the nice position
he is in. England and Germany were weak players and it is somewhat
understandable, but I don't want to be put in that same class.
>
>>
>>
>> sev s ukr-mos
>
>WAR s UKR - MOS
>GAL - SIL
>
>> (I assume you have russia supporting you to MOS)
>>
>> mun,boh,vie,tyr..i don't know
>
>TYR - VEN
>VIE - TRI
>BOH s MUN
>MUN s GAL - SIL or MUN s KIE....which do you think is better.
>
> > rum-ukr
> > tys s ion-tun
> > ion-tun
> > lyo?
>
>support TYS
>
> > aeg-ion
> > apu s tyr-ven
> >
Message from Austria to Turkey
>
> one last thing...any interest in not attacking Italy this spring at
> least? let's piff his Pie army, shore up our defenses and force the
> issue with Russia..we still have ground to make there..and it is
> somewhat of a race WRT to France.
I can go either way, I just need to know which one....its suicide for me
to attack him without you.
So....we wont attack him this spring.
> This is all based on my discussions with France. I called his bluffs,
> saw through his bs, then he laid out his positions clearly.
> Basically he said he has secured his place in the draw and now is
> just trying to see who wants to make it a smaller draw. So if we sit
> here and whittle away at each other, I think that falls into his
> hands...he is dictating the pace and progression of play.
Did he give you a promise of NOT attacking Munich
> If we don't eliminate Italy (or at least not immediately), then I
> think he will start to get frustrated, which may not make a whole
> big difference in the long run, but might give us more breathing room
> (if we demand he retreats a little).
Ok.
> You have to look at how he has manipulated eveerything so far to his
> advantage and how nicely he has gotten himself into the nice position
> he is in. England and Germany were weak players and it is somewhat
> understandable, but I don't want to be put in that same class.
Agreed.
If we arent attacking Italy....what are our moves....they change
drastically.
Let me know...I will be gone from tonight through Monday at DixieCon....
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
OK---I didn't hear back from you guys and orders are due tonight?
ukr-mos
sev s ukr-mos
tys-wes
tun s tys-wes
ion s tun
lyo-mar
ven-pie
tus s ven-pie
apu h
aeg s ion
tyr s mun
boh s mun
mun h
war-pru
gal-war
vie h
Message from Turkey to Austria
france said nothing concrete re: Munich, so I assume that he is
supporting Germany there or attacking it hiself.
>If we arent attacking Italy....what are our moves....they change
>drastically.
I would say we should order this (and I need to send this to
Italy..because he hasn't been saying much)
ukr-mos
sev s ukr-mos
tys-wes
tun s tys-wes
ion s tun
lyo-mar
ven-pie
tus s ven-pie
apu h
aeg s ion
the rest I don't know..up to you.
Message from Austria to Turkey
Please do....I will adjust my orders accordingly.
>
> ukr-mos
> sev s ukr-mos
>
> tys-wes
> tun s tys-wes
> ion s tun
>
> lyo-mar
>
>
> ven-pie
> tus s ven-pie
>
> apu h
>
> aeg s ion
>
>
> the rest I don't know..up to you.
>
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
Also, you should probably just go ahead and order Ion-Tys, Aeg-Ion, in
case Tys-Wes bounces.
Message from Austria to Italy
>
> Also, you should probably just go ahead and order Ion-Tys, Aeg-Ion, in
> case Tys-Wes bounces.
Does this mean you are ok with moving VEN??
Message from Austria to France
Tamas,
Are yo giving me the space I need or not.....
I feel alittle insulted that you have just stopped talking to me all
together.
Help me out here.
Andy
Message from Austria to Russia
Sorry for the silence,
Do I still have 2 supports to Moscow??
thanks
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
Mario,
France just sent me a note that says that you are going to stab me.
Why on gods green earth would I do anything that stupid.
I am giving us more space, please dont take advantage of that out of fear
of me.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>Also, you should probably just go ahead and order Ion-Tys, Aeg-Ion, in
>case Tys-Wes bounces.
why not ion s tunis?
and could you just order nap-tys? [I don't think it is going to
matter, but I don't want us to lose Tunis and if we get Wes, you
could still be tehre.
here are my orders, unless you want me to change something--if you
do, then i'll email you back a confirmation:
Turkey: Army Rumania HOLD.
Turkey: Army Ukraine -> Moscow.
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea.
Turkey: Fleet Gulf of Lyon -> Marseilles.
Turkey: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea -> Western Mediterranean.
Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Tunis.
Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Ukraine -> Moscow.
Turkey: Army Apulia HOLD.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
Looks good, but I'll order Ven S Tus-Pie, since that will allow Lyo to
retreat to Tus should it be dislodged.
Message from Italy to Austria
I thought I sent out the message to at - I thought it would be better to
order Ven S Tus-Pie, to give f Lyo a place to retreat to (Tus) if it is
dislodged (quite possible)
Message from Austria to Italy
> I thought I sent out the message to at - I thought it would be better to
> order Ven S Tus-Pie, to give f Lyo a place to retreat to (Tus) if it is
> dislodged (quite possible)
>
Exactly.
I just reread the note I sent you earlier.
What I meant was....
The french just told me that you think that I am going to stab you.
Its not happening.
Nada
noway
not gonna happen.
Andy
Message from France to Austria
Andy,
My apologies, I did not mean to insult, have had very little time for dip
these days. I read your email some time ago and filed it as a request,
thought that you do not really need an aswer since I hardly think you
would base your orders on what I say, especially after you failing to
issue the agreed support to Pie. No problem, but kind of makes it
idealistic that you would believe what I say this turn.
I have not made up my mind about moves yet. Russia, Italy, Turkey and you
all asked me to do specific things and I can tell you that I have not
promised anything to anyone. But you can safely count on me being
reasonable and the fact that I too want as small a draw as possible, this
should be favourable for you.
For one thing, please do not feel insulted. Apologies again.
tamas
On Thu, 22 May 2003, USTX Diplomacy Judge wrote:
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from buffalo@guisarme.net as Austria to France in 'comments':
>
>
> Tamas,
>
> Are yo giving me the space I need or not.....
>
> I feel alittle insulted that you have just stopped talking to me all
> together.
>
> Help me out here.
>
> Andy
>
>
Message from Russia to Austria
> Do I still have 2 supports to Moscow??
Sure, why not.
Eric.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
Ah yes, Ion S Tun - didn't realize that. I will order Nap-Tys in case
it succeeds.
Message from Italy to Austria
No I don't think you're going to stab me. Well, it's crossed my mind
that either you or Turkey (or both) might at some point, but at this point
the die is cast - I'd much rather prefer working with you and I don't
really have any other options anyways...
Austria: Army Bohemia → Silesia
Austria: Army Galicia → Warsaw
Austria: Army Munich HOLD
Austria: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Army Munich
Austria: Army Vienna → Bohemia
Austria: Army Warsaw → Prussia
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Piedmont → Marseilles
France: Army Denmark SUPPORT Army Holland → Kiel
France: Fleet Helgoland Bight SUPPORT Army Holland → Kiel
France: Army Holland → Kiel
France: Army Marseilles → Gascony
France: Fleet North Africa SUPPORT Fleet Western Mediterranean
France: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Army Denmark
France: Army Piedmont → Marseilles
France: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Holland → Kiel
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Western Mediterranean
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean HOLD
Germany: Army Berlin SUPPORT Fleet Kiel
Germany: Fleet Kiel SUPPORT Army Berlin (*cut, destroyed*)
Italy: Fleet Naples → Tyrrhenian Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT Turkish Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Western Mediterranean
Italy: Fleet Tuscany → Piedmont
Italy: Army Venice SUPPORT Fleet Tuscany → Piedmont
Russia: Army Livonia SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw → Moscow (*void*)
Russia: Army St Petersburg SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw → Moscow (*void*)
Russia: Fleet Sweden → Baltic Sea
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea
Turkey: Army Apulia HOLD
Turkey: Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Marseilles (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Tunis
Turkey: Army Rumania HOLD
Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Ukraine → Moscow
Turkey: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Western Mediterranean (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Ukraine → Moscow
|