|
|
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
Gentlemen,
We need to talk, as I am going to be away all weekend. Starting tommorow
night.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> We need to talk, as I am going to be away all weekend. Starting tommorow
> night.
ket's just gett our orders in now then
sev s mos
ukr s war
mos s war bal-rum
rom-tus
tys c tus-rom
nap s tys
ion s tun
tun h
tus s ven-pie
ven-pie
tri-ven
ber-pru (sil , war suupport)..or just retreat to previously stated stalemate
line.
anything other ideas? anything wrong with mine?
And does anyone think the Russian is going to be any quieter now?
Turkey
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
> sev s mos
> ukr s war
> mos s war
bal-rum
> rom-tus
> tys c tus-rom
> nap s tys
> ion s tun
> tun h
> tus s ven-pie
> ven-pie
> tri-ven
> ber-pru (sil , war suupport)..or just retreat to previously stated stalemate
> line.
This looks fine. I think we should offer the Russian part of the
draw...right now.
Hell...I will do it.
I am assuming that bal is bulgaria.
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> tys c tus-rom
> tus s ven-pie
Well, this might cause a problem. :-)
I think Rom-Tus
Tys c Tus-Rom
Tus-Tys-Rom,
Ven S Tyl-Pie
Vie S Tri-Tyl (or the reverse)
with either A Tri or A Vie being removed. You'll drop 2 centers but A Ber
is likely to be destroyed so only 1 removal.
I've set draw...
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>
>
> > tys c tus-rom
> > tus s ven-pie
>
> Well, this might cause a problem. :-)
>
> I think Rom-Tus
> Tys c Tus-Rom
> Tus-Tys-Rom,
> Ven S Tyl-Pie
> Vie S Tri-Tyl (or the reverse)
1. Could you use the Tyr notation to avoid confusion.
2. Could you explan. this in ref to our earlier talks today?
3. Why should we offer Russia anything? I don't understand why we need him?
Message from Russia to all
I'll be out of town and offline this weekend. I have orders in
with Wait Set and will be back Sunday evening, so there's no
need for a Deadline extension, but don't expect Press from me
this weekend.
Eric/Nicky/Russia
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
> 3. Why should we offer Russia anything? I don't understand why we need him?
Good point.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
I think Andrew is right, let the Russian die. Hold our ground and take a 4
way.
I will be setting draw along the way as well.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
here are my orders
bul-rum-gal if necessary...but I would think that Sil retreat to Gal
will happen in the spring?
also, I think by the end of this turn, we should be pretty close to
our stalemate line we discussed?
France should be in Lyo, Mar, Ber..only exception is Sil?
>
>
>Movement orders for Fall of 1911. (comments.046)
>
>Turkey: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw.
>Turkey: Army Moscow SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw.
>Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Tunis.
>Turkey: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea CONVOY Austrian Army Tuscany -> Rome.
>Turkey: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea.
>Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Moscow.
>Turkey: Army Rome -> Tuscany.
>Turkey: Army Bulgaria -> Rumania.
>Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea -> Greece.
Message from Turkey to France
France,
do you see any holes in our defense of your solo?
Mar, Stp, Swe, Nwy, Mun, Ber will put you at 17.
Message from France to Turkey
Dear Andy,
> do you see any holes in our defense of your solo?
Yes I do. Why are you asking?
-----------------------------------------------------------
p.s. I have looked at your admittedly impressive collection
of newsgroup posts. Reminded me of my long-pending plan of
getting a decent bike: I am not into racing but do cycle
into the mountains in the Geneve area.
Tamas
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
Do we see any problems with this.
Movement orders for Fall of 1911. (comments.046)
Austria: Army Tyrolia -> Piedmont.
Austria: Army Venice SUPPORT Army Tyrolia -> Piedmont.
Austria: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Army Silesia.
Austria: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Berlin -> Munich.
Austria: Army Berlin -> Munich.
Austria: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Berlin -> Munich.
Austria: Army Tuscany -> Tyrrhenian Sea -> Rome.
Austria: Army Vienna -> Tyrolia.
Austria: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Venice.
Austria: DRAW YES
Time to deadline: 3 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Time to grace period expiration: 6 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Message from Turkey to France
>Dear Andy,
>
>> do you see any holes in our defense of your solo?
>
>Yes I do. Why are you asking?
Because it would be nice to hear what it is so the hole can be fixed.
So do you think you can solo?
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>p.s. I have looked at your admittedly impressive collection
>of newsgroup posts. Reminded me of my long-pending plan of
>getting a decent bike: I am not into racing but do cycle
>into the mountains in the Geneve area.
remember to always wear a helmet.
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>Do we see any problems with this.
>
>
>Movement orders for Fall of 1911. (comments.046)
>
>Austria: Army Tyrolia -> Piedmont.
>Austria: Army Venice SUPPORT Army Tyrolia -> Piedmont.
>Austria: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Army Silesia.
>Austria: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Berlin -> Munich.
>Austria: Army Berlin -> Munich.
>Austria: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Berlin -> Munich.
>Austria: Army Tuscany -> Tyrrhenian Sea -> Rome.
>Austria: Army Vienna -> Tyrolia.
>Austria: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Venice.
why wouldn't you use trieste to support vie-tyr?
>Austria: DRAW YES
does anyone know off the top of their head if France gets all his
builds, will he have enough units eventually to get units to BOT,
FIN, NWY, and BAR to take STP and still hold his western line of 17?
(presuming of course Russia actually became interested in not
throwing the game to france and holding.
Message from France to Turkey
Hi Andy,
> >> do you see any holes in our defense of your solo?
> >
> >Yes I do. Why are you asking?
>
> Because it would be nice to hear what it is so the hole
> can be fixed.
I bet it would. :-)
> So do you think you can solo?
Well, this question is not a very interesting one because my
answer to it does not affect my play right now. More
interesting is do _you_ think I can solo?
As far as what the hole is: it is hard to tell, because you
did not show me any defense: a list of centers is hardly
something which one can argue with. Consider this:
"Mar, Stp, Swe, Nwy, Mun, Ber, Mos, War, will put me at 19."
do you see any holes in it?
My guess is though that if you show me the defense for my
comments, then the biggest whole is the word "our" in your
question. Who is "us"? If you tell me in S1901 that there
is a complete 6-power defense against France which
stalemates me at zero centers, there is nothing to argue
with. How different is the present situation? Hard to
tell. Under usual circumstances my solo chances would be
nil and the game would end in a 2WD. But I hardly think
that the circumstances are usual.
Tamas
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> remember to always wear a helmet.
I never do. :-(
T
Message from Turkey to France
>
>> >> do you see any holes in our defense of your solo?
>> >
>> >Yes I do. Why are you asking?
>>
>> Because it would be nice to hear what it is so the hole
>> can be fixed.
>
>I bet it would. :-)
>
>> So do you think you can solo?
>
>Well, this question is not a very interesting one because my
>answer to it does not affect my play right now.
no does it affect my play. however, I don't see how this changes the
level of interest in the comment.
> More
>interesting is do _you_ think I can solo?
Of course you _can_, anyone still left on the board can potentially solo.
>
>As far as what the hole is: it is hard to tell, because you
>did not show me any defense:
You can look at the board and see the defense. The list of centers
wasn't anything but a passing comment.
> a list of centers is hardly
>something which one can argue with. Consider this:
>
>"Mar, Stp, Swe, Nwy, Mun, Ber, Mos, War, will put me at 19."
>
>do you see any holes in it?
holes in what?
>
>My guess is though that if you show me the defense for my
>comments, then the biggest whole is the word "our" in your
>question. Who is "us"? If you tell me in S1901 that there
>is a complete 6-power defense against France which
>stalemates me at zero centers, there is nothing to argue
>with. How different is the present situation?
you can easily get to 17, but not more.
> Hard to
>tell. Under usual circumstances my solo chances would be
>nil and the game would end in a 2WD. But I hardly think
>that the circumstances are usual.
you can say that again.
>
>Tamas
>
>> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > remember to always wear a helmet.
>
>I never do. :-(
you should.
Message from France to Turkey
Andy,
> >> >> do you see any holes in our defense of your solo?
> >> >>
> >> >> Mar, Stp, Swe, Nwy, Mun, Ber will put you at 17.
> >"Mar, Stp, Swe, Nwy, Mun, Ber, Mos, War, will put me at 19."
> >
> >do you see any holes in it?
>
> holes in what?
Yes, that was exactly my point.
> >As far as what the hole is: it is hard to tell, because
> >you did not show me any defense:
>
> You can look at the board and see the defense.
I heard this about the line involving Ber/Mun last year and
your holding Tunis, etc. There is hardly any defense now.
Granted, we will bounce on LYO a few more times just to keep
your fleets from advancing to TYS, and barring chances for
Tun I will have to move my fleets to help in Scandinavia
later. But Austria is disbanding this year and his holes
should be soon filled by Turkish armies, which certainly
will not increase your stability much.
> you can easily get to 17, but not more.
You are probably right. In fact I might end up with much
less than that, once I realize that it is over and will have
to give up centers to my neighbors.
Tamas
Message from Turkey to France
>
>
>> >> >> do you see any holes in our defense of your solo?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mar, Stp, Swe, Nwy, Mun, Ber will put you at 17.
>
>> >"Mar, Stp, Swe, Nwy, Mun, Ber, Mos, War, will put me at 19."
>> >
>> >do you see any holes in it?
>>
>> holes in what?
>
>Yes, that was exactly my point.
>
>> >As far as what the hole is: it is hard to tell, because
>> >you did not show me any defense:
>>
>> You can look at the board and see the defense.
>
>I heard this about the line involving Ber/Mun last year and
>your holding Tunis, etc. There is hardly any defense now.
>Granted, we will bounce on LYO a few more times just to keep
>your fleets from advancing to TYS, and barring chances for
>Tun I will have to move my fleets to help in Scandinavia
>later. But Austria is disbanding this year and his holes
>should be soon filled by Turkish armies, which certainly
>will not increase your stability much.
>
>> you can easily get to 17, but not more.
>
>You are probably right.
I had hoped that you would be all confident about your moves and that
you would be so cocky and show them to me.
> In fact I might end up with much
>less than that, once I realize that it is over and will have
>to give up centers to my neighbors.
I had really hoped for a more detailed discussion, either you are
getting lazy or you aren't letting on to all that you know.
I do realize now that I made the correct decision about not letting
you have Tunis (with your army) in exhange for STP, which everyone
knows I couldn't hold. ARe you going to admit now that you tried to
pull a fast one on me and I didn't bite and that that was the right
thing to do..or are we going to have to wait until after the game is
over?
Message from France to Turkey
Andrew,
> >> you can easily get to 17, but not more.
> >
> >You are probably right.
>
> I had hoped that you would be all confident about your
> moves and that you would be so cocky and show them to me.
I usually do not know my moves until a few hours before the
deadline. And - again - I do not think that my moves are
the most interesting ones. For many years my moves has been
the most boring: what the others do is much more exciting.
For example whether Austria goes on with his self-bounces,
whether he dislodges A Pie, risking losing Rom and
disbanding 2-3...
> I had really hoped for a more detailed discussion, either
> you are getting lazy or you aren't letting on to all that
> you know.
I kind of have gotten irritated with the experience that as
the discussion between us gets detailed, the arguments
always seem to end up in a broadcast of yours. What kind of
details are you interested in?
I do not think I am getting lazy, my other embassies like
the ones in Vienna, StPetersburg are working around the
clock in the usual fashion. Unfortunately Italy does not
write for some time.
Let me add something. You might not realize that my
successful attacks are what keep you still alive. If I was
less ambitious and complied with the demands of IAR (which
is ongoing in this very minute), you would be on your way
out.
> I do realize now that I made the correct decision about
> not letting you have Tunis (with your army) in exhange for
> STP, which everyone knows I couldn't hold. ARe you going
> to admit now that you tried to pull a fast one on me and I
> didn't bite and that that was the right thing to do..or
> are we going to have to wait until after the game is over?
Oh, what a curiosity!!!
You are missing an important point: _YOU_ offered Tunis for
me. I would not have suggested it but of course there was
no reason for me to refuse. Let me make this clear: Indeed,
you made the correct decision. But at the same time, all my
arguments in that discussion were completely valid. That
is: once you ASSUME that Tunis can end up in French hands,
the rest of it was completely honest on my part. This is
why I was quite mad at you in the end: you could have said
that France stays out of Tun no matter what to which I would
not have an answer, but all your criticism concerning the
hows and safety measures of getting Tun to me were (excuse
me) bullshit.
No, you do not have to wait until after the game is over:
/---------------------------------------------
| Message from hauer@caesar.elte.hu as France to France in 'comments':
|
|
| Observers,
|
| I guess there is not much explanation needed here. I am
| sorry for Germany's demise, he could have been useful for
| some more time.
|
| My discussion with Turkey is very interesting/exciting. I
| never in my dreams thought that he would let me into
| Tunis. Although he claims to have read about stalemate
| lines, he surely does know what will happen after I take
| Tunis. Tunis is worth _anything_ for me.
|
| If I am in Tunis, there are several ways to play from
| there. My control of Swe/Nor/StP is already undebatable
| on the long run (this is another mistake of his). Munich
| is held well by Austria but all the balkans and what's
| around is empty, so anything can happen there. I could
| pretend to play for the 2WD, let Turkey collect everything
| while I take Mun and Ber, then after 17-17 I simply sail
| to StP.
|
| [...]
|
| In any case, there will be many new options. I think that
| already a stab on the eastern side (whoever hits whom)
| would open up the game somewhat but this is much more
| promising. It is also good to strengthen Turkey because
| AI are too smart and they might be able to kill Turkey
| without letting me through.
|
| Tamas
\---------------------------------------------
Tamas
Message from Turkey to France
>
>I kind of have gotten irritated with the experience that as
>the discussion between us gets detailed, the arguments
>always seem to end up in a broadcast of yours.
you started it first of course. As a general rule, I don't fwd press,
unless of course someone else does it first, like you did.
> What kind of
>details are you interested in?
>
>I do not think I am getting lazy, my other embassies like
>the ones in Vienna, StPetersburg are working around the
>clock in the usual fashion. Unfortunately Italy does not
>write for some time.
I've already said that this kind of stuff doesn't work with me...you
shouldn't even bother, but I suppose that it is in your nature.
>
>Let me add something. You might not realize that my
>successful attacks are what keep you still alive.
That is completely untrue. If you start marching west, and RAIT can
duke it out, who does that benefit the most? me.
However, as your successful attacks push Austria back towards me
there are fewer options, and all units from all parties, are
necessary to prevent your solo. So I disagree that your attacks keep
me alive.
> If I was
>less ambitious and complied with the demands of IAR (which
>is ongoing in this very minute), you would be on your way
>out.
You are funny.
>
>> I do realize now that I made the correct decision about
>> not letting you have Tunis (with your army) in exhange for
>> STP, which everyone knows I couldn't hold. ARe you going
>> to admit now that you tried to pull a fast one on me and I
>> didn't bite and that that was the right thing to do..or
>> are we going to have to wait until after the game is over?
>
>Oh, what a curiosity!!!
>
>You are missing an important point: _YOU_ offered Tunis for
>me.
Wrong you asked for it first.
> I would not have suggested it but of course there was
>no reason for me to refuse.
I wonder if you re-write history for purposes of Diplomacy or you
really have yourself believing such things.
>No, you do not have to wait until after the game is over:
>/---------------------------------------------
>| Message from hauer@caesar.elte.hu as France to France in 'comments':
>|
>|
>| Observers,
Interesting, but of course, you can understand given the fluidity of
my situation, I can't reciprocate on my assessment of you and your
play./
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
>
> why wouldn't you use trieste to support vie-tyr?
Good point.
>
> >Austria: DRAW YES
>
> does anyone know off the top of their head if France gets all his
> builds, will he have enough units eventually to get units to BOT,
> FIN, NWY, and BAR to take STP and still hold his western line of 17?
> (presuming of course Russia actually became interested in not
> throwing the game to france and holding.
>
I think we can hold him...regardless as long as we hold Tunis
Message from France to Turkey
Andy,
> you started it first of course.
Nope. And in fact never did.
> That is completely untrue. If you start marching west, and
> RAIT can duke it out, who does that benefit the most? me.
>
> You are funny.
Yes, you told me that. Thanks for the compliment. Of
course I do not think that you would learn from our
discussion like I did. At least you are duly entertained.
As far as your elimination: you are missing a point again.
You constanly think that I am lying without thinking whether
it is likely or not (i.e. whether I gain anything or just
enjoy lying itself). In fact I very rarely lie. I am
telling you that you would be on your way out if I had let
them do it but you are correct in saying that it is less and
less likely as time passes. Will I achieve anything with
telling you this information? Nothing. Is there any point
in lying? No. We are chatting about the game, I will of
course stop as soon as you are tired of it. You are given
the option of thinking about it and maybe realize that you
are lucky and in your next game you would do something
different. This is what I am doing on my end of the line at
least.
> Wrong you asked for it first.
>
> I wonder if you re-write history for purposes of Diplomacy
> or you really have yourself believing such things.
Even if I had asked for it first, it would not make any
difference from the argument's point of view. You do not
see it, do you? I do not understand your comment about the
history either, I said: "YOU offered Tunis to me". In what
sense is this wrong?
> Interesting, but of course, you can understand given the
> fluidity of my situation, I can't reciprocate on my
> assessment of you and your play.
I share Russia's view (his message to AIFT) that when we
discuss the game afterwards, you might not be the top
authority in assessing the players' ability. Very honestly,
I do not mean this to be an insult in any way but it is true
that among the observers and the players there are others
with higher success rate who will get more attention:
naturally. Maybe your views will end up being the generally
accepted ones, maybe not. I am much less self-confident
than you are and would be afraid to defend my opinion as
arrogantly as (I sense) you do about the quality of players.
Tamas
Message from Turkey to France
> > Wrong you asked for it first.
>>
>> I wonder if you re-write history for purposes of Diplomacy
>> or you really have yourself believing such things.
>
>Even if I had asked for it first,
You asked for tunis and you asked for tunis before I ever wrote the word tunis.
So again, I ask you the question, why do you try to rewrite history
in the context of this game:
A) does it just happen
B) is it part of your strategy?
And once you re-write history, do you start believing it yourself?
Like how OJ believes he didn't kill Nicole.
Message from Turkey to France
>Andy,
>
>> you started it first of course.
>
>Nope. And in fact never did.
OK, here is how I tell if someone is lying, I make a bet with them
with real money (i.e. USD, or Euros).
Would you like to bet on the following (payable via paypal)
1. Between the two of us, you were the first person to fwd press that
was initially F<-->T to a third party.
2. You did indeed forward press from me.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
good morning.
Did we settle on a plan. I dont remember.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
ignore that last message....my orders are already in.
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
what do we think France is doing? does it matter?
here is what I have...
>
>Movement orders for Fall of 1911. (comments.046)
>
>Turkey: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw.
>Turkey: Army Moscow SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw.
>Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Tunis.
>Turkey: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea CONVOY Austrian Army Tuscany -> Rome.
>Turkey: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea.
>Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Moscow.
>Turkey: Army Rome -> Tuscany.
>Turkey: Army Bulgaria -> Rumania.
>Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea -> Greece.
>
>Time to deadline: 0 days, 17 hours, 6 minutes, and 8 seconds.
>
>Time to grace period expiration: 3 days, 17 hours, 6 minutes, and 8 seconds.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
That looks good. I've ordered Pie-Tyl,F Tun S Mao-Wes. These are the
orders that France has asked for, and since they don't interfere with our
plans, I see no reason not to order them.
Austria: Army Berlin → Munich (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Berlin → Munich
Austria: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Berlin → Munich (*cut*)
Austria: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Vienna → Tyrolia
Austria: Army Tuscany → Tyrrhenian Sea → Rome
Austria: Army Tyrolia → Piedmont
Austria: Army Venice SUPPORT Army Tyrolia → Piedmont
Austria: Army Vienna → Tyrolia
Austria: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Army Silesia
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich
France: Fleet Helgoland Bight → Denmark
France: Army Kiel → Berlin (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Western Mediterranean
France: Army Munich SUPPORT Army Prussia → Silesia (*cut*)
France: Fleet North Africa SUPPORT Italian Fleet Tunis
France: Army Prussia → Silesia (*bounce*)
France: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Munich
France: Army Spain → Western Mediterranean → Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea → Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*no convoy*)
France: Fleet Sweden → Gulf of Bothnia
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Gulf of Lyon
Italy: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia (*bounce, dislodged*)
Italy: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT French Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Western Mediterranean
Russia: Fleet Baltic Sea CONVOY Army Livonia → Berlin
Russia: Army Livonia → Baltic Sea → Berlin (*bounce*)
Russia: Army St Petersburg → Norway
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea → Greece
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Italian Fleet Tunis
Turkey: Army Moscow SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw
Turkey: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea
Turkey: Army Rome → Tuscany
Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Moscow
Turkey: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea CONVOY Austrian Army Tuscany → Rome
Turkey: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Austrian Army Warsaw
|