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Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
> Well, here we are. France is claiming to move back. Obviously if you
> both try to take me out, there is nothing I can do to stop you.
I have said from the begining of this stage of the game that I would
prefer to keep Italy in the draw. He has held a stalemate line for us
for a long time. That is my opinion....I will remind you Andrew that
what I said before still holds, he has earned his spot in this draw.
I have draw set.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria
I have no intention of taking Tunis or talking to France
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>
>
>Anyway, I think the best plan, if you are in agreement, is to let me
>re-occupy Rom and Nap. That way we can demonstrate to Tamas that we are
>not going to give in to his chicanery.
1. I haven't heard anything from Tamas in quite some time.
2. Speaking of chicanery, would you care to explain what would have
happened with these 3 sets of moves some time ago? Could you have
really thrown the game to france?
> tys-tun
> ion s tys-tun
> nap-tys
> lyo-tys
> wes s naf-tun
> naf-tun
>
> when italy orders
> 1. tun-tys
> 2. tun-ion
> 3. tun h
3. I'm all for you being in the draw, I just want everything on the table.
As for current moves, I'm going to keep ordering what I have been
ordering and setting draw. But since we know Tamas isn't going to be
setting draw (I have a feeling even if Italy were eliminated Tamas
wouldn't set draw),....we still have quite some time. (and Italy has
quite some time to answer the above question)
Message from Austria to Turkey
Message from buffalo@guisarme.net as Austria to Austria in 'comments':
> I have no intention of taking Tunis or talking to France
>
Excellent...that is exactly how I feel.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> > tys-tun
> > ion s tys-tun
> > nap-tys
> > lyo-tys
> > wes s naf-tun
> > naf-tun
> >
> > when italy orders
> > 1. tun-tys
> > 2. tun-ion
> > 3. tun h
Well, with those particular orders from France, no, not on that turn. But
had you ordered that even once, then I'd have to assume you were trying to
whittle me out and go into throw the game to France mode.
So the next season France and I would order Naf S Tun, Tun, Lyo S Wes-Tys.
Tys would be dislodged and the next turn France could take Tunis. Or if
we thought you'd try to block that, we'd order the simple attack on Tunis.
It's a guessing game that eventually you would guess wrong (Even if it
took 100 seasons)
> 3. I'm all for you being in the draw, I just want everything on the table.
> As for current moves, I'm going to keep ordering what I have been
> ordering and setting draw. But since we know Tamas isn't going to be
> setting draw (I have a feeling even if Italy were eliminated Tamas
> wouldn't set draw),....we still have quite some time. (and Italy has
> quite some time to answer the above question)
Well, on the table - I know that France is going to start (continue?)
whining on and on about how you HAVE to eliminate me. Probably come up
with great ways about how now that he's backed up to Spa and Por, you HAVE
to eliminate Austria too and go for the 2-way.
I think the best way to show to him that he's full of it is to give me Rom
and Nap back. It's a center from each of you. You both have at least one
unit that could easily be removed (F Bla, A Rom). Then, once that is
done, tell France if he wants to prolong the game, then he has to start
giving us centers. We'll see how that goes.
What do you think?
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>Well, with those particular orders from France, no, not on that turn. But
>had you ordered that even once, then I'd have to assume you were trying to
>whittle me out and go into throw the game to France mode.
>
>So the next season France and I would order Naf S Tun, Tun, Lyo S Wes-Tys.
>Tys would be dislodged and the next turn France could take Tunis. Or if
>we thought you'd try to block that, we'd order the simple attack on Tunis.
>It's a guessing game that eventually you would guess wrong (Even if it
>took 100 seasons)
good answer. That is why you didn't want me to have another fleet in Italy.
>
>> 3. I'm all for you being in the draw, I just want everything on the table.
>> As for current moves, I'm going to keep ordering what I have been
>> ordering and setting draw. But since we know Tamas isn't going to be
>> setting draw (I have a feeling even if Italy were eliminated Tamas
>> wouldn't set draw),....we still have quite some time. (and Italy has
>> quite some time to answer the above question)
>
>Well, on the table - I know that France is going to start (continue?)
>whining on and on about how you HAVE to eliminate me. Probably come up
>with great ways about how now that he's backed up to Spa and Por, you HAVE
>to eliminate Austria too and go for the 2-way.
>
>I think the best way to show to him that he's full of it is to give me Rom
>and Nap back. It's a center from each of you. You both have at least one
>unit that could easily be removed (F Bla, A Rom). Then, once that is
>done, tell France if he wants to prolong the game, then he has to start
>giving us centers. We'll see how that goes.
What does Austria think on this matter?
My initial inclination is no, to get you extra centers from France,
not us. I don't feel that I am so large that my position is that
solid to give away centers. You also have to realize that if France
keeps backing up, then you guys can attack me too. (Of course I do
realize that we aren't all in the same exact boat/same power
here...but all the same I would like to keep my position rock solid.)
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> good answer. That is why you didn't want me to have another fleet in Italy.
Exactly. With another fleet you'd be able to make it a lot harder, though
actually you would need 2 more fleets to have a rock solid defense. But
not having the fleet also makes it a guessing game for you to hold Tunis
if you did take it from me. France could easily come storming back into
the Med, and you wouldn't have enough fleets to stop him from retaking
Tunis.
> What does Austria think on this matter?
>
> My initial inclination is no, to get you extra centers from France,
> not us. I don't feel that I am so large that my position is that
> solid to give away centers. You also have to realize that if France
> keeps backing up, then you guys can attack me too. (Of course I do
> realize that we aren't all in the same exact boat/same power
> here...but all the same I would like to keep my position rock solid.)
Well, I see 2 basic problems with that (my getting extra centers from
France). 1. What centers? There's no way that we can force our way past
his position - he has a 17 center stalemate. 2. Even if we were able to
get me centers from France, I couldn't build the units.
What about if you stationed a fleet in the Ion, maybe with another one in
Aeg or so for support, and disband F Bla. Coupled with your armies in
southern Russia, there is no way that either Austria or I could attack
you. We'd have to give you at least 1-2 seasons of forewarning. And if
we did turn our backs to attack you, you know that France would be trying
to get that 18th center, and it really wouldn't be that hard.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
> >> 3. I'm all for you being in the draw, I just want everything on the table.
> >> As for current moves, I'm going to keep ordering what I have been
> >> ordering and setting draw. But since we know Tamas isn't going to be
> >> setting draw (I have a feeling even if Italy were eliminated Tamas
> >> wouldn't set draw),....we still have quite some time. (and Italy has
> >> quite some time to answer the above question)
> >
> >Well, on the table - I know that France is going to start (continue?)
> >whining on and on about how you HAVE to eliminate me. Probably come up
> >with great ways about how now that he's backed up to Spa and Por, you HAVE
> >to eliminate Austria too and go for the 2-way.
> >
> >I think the best way to show to him that he's full of it is to give me Rom
> >and Nap back. It's a center from each of you. You both have at least one
> >unit that could easily be removed (F Bla, A Rom). Then, once that is
> >done, tell France if he wants to prolong the game, then he has to start
> >giving us centers. We'll see how that goes.
>
>
> What does Austria think on this matter?
I see the reasoning behind what Italy wants but I dont see a way to do it
without bringing another fleet up and that is unacceptable.
It is functionally impossible to accomplish.
> My initial inclination is no, to get you extra centers from France,
> not us.
Thats impossible also, he has nowhere to build.
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> I see the reasoning behind what Italy wants but I dont see a way to do it
> without bringing another fleet up and that is unacceptable.
>
> It is functionally impossible to accomplish.
So, if we could come up with a way to do it that didn't risk Tunis to
France, would you be for the idea?
I haven't looked at the map too much, but I think that especially if we
see France pull back this spring, we can pull it off.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
>
> So, if we could come up with a way to do it that didn't risk Tunis to
> France, would you be for the idea?
>
> I haven't looked at the map too much, but I think that especially if we
> see France pull back this spring, we can pull it off.
>
I dont think he will ever be able to pull back far enough.
If Turkey is uncomfortable with it, my opinion really doesnt matter.
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
>
>>
>> So, if we could come up with a way to do it that didn't risk Tunis to
>> France, would you be for the idea?
>>
>> I haven't looked at the map too much, but I think that especially if we
>> see France pull back this spring, we can pull it off.
>>
>
>I dont think he will ever be able to pull back far enough.
>
>If Turkey is uncomfortable with it, my opinion really doesnt matter.
if there is a way, I would do it. And perhaps, I could take Tunis,
Italy gets italy back, Austria gets Moscow.
but we should try to get A or I across the stalemate line by
negotiation with France. I too see that this is unlikely, however, if
were able to engineer getting across it then a 3WD with IAT would be
a great outcome to this game.
First, I think we just keep ordering our same orders until France retreats:
The Versailles line
east (16 units): Mos (1), War (1), Gal, Boh (1), Trl (1), Ven (1), F
Rom, Tyn (1), Tun(1)
west (15 unit): Stp, Bot, Bal (1), Ber (1), Mun (2), Mar (1), Spa (1), Mid (1)
DMZ: Lvn, Pru, Sil, Pie, Tus, Lyo, Wes, Naf
We could even DMZ our side of this (this also makes it more unlikley
that I could attack I or A)...so we should all be for this.
THEN and only then, we try and get France to give up a SC on his side
of the line. Reasoning here will be that I can't possibly try to for
a 2WD with France unless the board is more even between f and T.
[France of course will be need to be thinking that he wants to
engineer problems between IAT such that he can solo...I can't help
but think that France still desparately wants a solo]
Of course there are a lot of details to work out, like how to Get
Italy more units and how IAT sets it up such that a FT is impossible.
(This is what I would want if I were either of you)
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
Guys...IM really busy right now, I will get back to this in the evening.
Thanks
Andy
Message from Turkey to all
Everyone,
I will be gone from 8/1/03 until 8/11/03...and may be fairly busy
from wednesday on
Master,
Can I have an extension then?
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
> if there is a way, I would do it. And perhaps, I could take Tunis,
> Italy gets italy back, Austria gets Moscow.
That sounds reasonable. Certainlyh something like that is what we'd need
to do.
> were able to engineer getting across it then a 3WD with IAT would be
> a great outcome to this game.
I agree. It would have to be some sort of record to have France
eliminated after reaching 17 centers.
> First, I think we just keep ordering our same orders until France retreats:
>
> We could even DMZ our side of this (this also makes it more unlikley
> that I could attack I or A)...so we should all be for this.
Agreed. But this could happen as soon as this spring.
> THEN and only then, we try and get France to give up a SC on his side
> of the line. Reasoning here will be that I can't possibly try to for
> a 2WD with France unless the board is more even between f and T.
> [France of course will be need to be thinking that he wants to
> engineer problems between IAT such that he can solo...I can't help
> but think that France still desparately wants a solo]
Of course he does - every move he makes still screams out "I WANT A SOLO"
which is why it would be foolish for any of us (most likely either of you)
to try to do anything foolish.
> Of course there are a lot of details to work out, like how to Get
> Italy more units and how IAT sets it up such that a FT is impossible.
> (This is what I would want if I were either of you)
Right. The details would have to be worked out. We'd have to limit
Turkish fleets I think. Enough fleets so that Turkey feels safe about not
succumbing to any AI attack, but few enough so that Italy feels safe
moving his fleets west. Probably the thing to do would be have Turkey
take Tunis as mentioned and move his units through Ion and Tun, leaving
Tys Italian. Another thing might include making a big convoy chain for
Turkish armies - Con-Aeg-Ion-Tys-Wes-Mao-Gas or something like that.
We should wait till next spring to make our move, assuming France pulls
back. Then, maybe something like
Rom-Ven, Ven-Tyl, Tyl-Boh, Boh-Sil
Tys-Lyo, Nap-Tys, Ion-Gre/Aeg, Tun-Ion
this allows Ion-Nap in the fall.
Then we start pushing on France to back off. If he won't, we then just
set draw and wait for the draw clock and a 4-way. If he will, then we
exploit that to move forward.
Those are my initial thoughts.
Mario
Message from Russia to all
> Broadcast message from Turkey in 'comments':
>
> I will be gone from 8/1/03 until 8/11/03...and may be fairly busy
> from wednesday on
>
> Master,
> Can I have an extension then?
Oh, come on, there is at most two turns worth of
play left in the game. Either France gets Tunis,
Turkey gets Tunis, or it's a 4-way.
Eric.
Message from Italy to Turkey
If they're being snooty, you can use the set absence command to set your
own absence. You can send get absence to get the code for the syntax, or
I think it's (after you signon):
set absence 1 aug 2003 to 11 aug 2003
You should set it now - it only affects future deadlines, so it won't
affect this current deadline
Message from Turkey to all
> >
>> Master,
>> Can I have an extension then?
>
>Oh, come on, there is at most two turns worth of
>play left in the game. Either France gets Tunis,
>Turkey gets Tunis, or it's a 4-way.
I don't think you have much of a pronostication leg to stand on.
Weren't you the person that thought I was hell bent on eliminating
you? and your good buddy France was your savior?
Message from Turkey to Italy
thanks
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
here are my moves..
sev s mos
rum s ukr
mos h
ukr s mos
bla h
tus s pie
tys s tus
nap s tys
ion s tys
set draw
you may not hear from me before I leave...but i don't think it
matters, I hope we continue with the holding pattern plan until
France withdraws to his minimum stalemate plan.
Message from Russia to all
> Broadcast message from Turkey in 'comments':
>
> >Oh, come on, there is at most two turns worth of
> >play left in the game. Either France gets Tunis,
> >Turkey gets Tunis, or it's a 4-way.
>
>
> I don't think you have much of a pronostication leg
> to stand on.
Ok, technically, you could convoy Rom-Tun and give
Tunis to Austria, but it still requires no more than two
turns to finish this.
> Weren't you the person that thought I was hell bent
> on eliminating you?
No, you were hell-bent on keeping me from establishing
the Scandinavian section of the stalemate line, which
meant that France could eliminate me whenever he
chose to.
> and your good buddy France was your savior?
No, I knew that the only way I'd survive was if France
Soloed before I was eliminated. Now the only question
is, who holds Tunis when the game ends.
Eric.
Austria: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Tyrolia
Austria: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Warsaw
Austria: Army Piedmont HOLD
Austria: Army Rome SUPPORT Turkish Army Tuscany
Austria: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Army Bohemia
Austria: Army Venice SUPPORT Army Piedmont
Austria: Army Warsaw HOLD
France: Fleet Baltic Sea → Kiel
France: Fleet Barents Sea → St Petersburg (north coast)
France: Fleet Berlin HOLD
France: Army Brest → Gascony
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich
France: Army Finland → Sweden
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Spain (south coast)
France: Army Kiel → Ruhr
France: Army Marseilles HOLD
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Portugal
France: Army Munich HOLD
France: Army Norway HOLD
France: Army St Petersburg → Finland
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Italy: Fleet Tunis HOLD
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea HOLD
Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea
Turkey: Army Moscow HOLD
Turkey: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea
Turkey: Army Rumania SUPPORT Army Ukraine
Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Moscow
Turkey: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Austrian Army Piedmont
Turkey: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Army Tuscany
Turkey: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Army Moscow
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