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Message from Master to all
Hello again.
Greg, GM
Comments
Message from Master to all
Hello yet again.
Greg, GM
Comments
Message from Master to all
Hello #4
Message from Master to all
Hello #5
endpress signoff
Message from Master to all
Another test message.
Greg
Message from Master to all
Players and Commentators,
We now have seven players, so we're about ready to start. I plan to
start the game about noon, USTX time, tomorrow (Jan 7th). In the
meantime, I'm hoping a few more people sign on as Commentators. Also,
if anyone would like to change their power preference, you are free to
do so until I start the game. I've set the game to allow you to ask
for a random power. You can stick with a preference list, if you
prefer, but, IMHO, real men take any power that's given to them. :-)
This game is not gunboat, so all the players can see who they're up
against. Please keep in mind that although you can see the other
players' e-mail addresses, you should do all your negotiations through
the judge. If you don't, the Commentators will not be able to see them
and that will kind of defeat the purpose of this game.
Commentators, please keep in mind that after the game is over, the
players will be able to see all the comments that were made on the
Commentators list. So, please try to make your comments constructive.
Players, if you'd like to tell the Commentators what you're thinking,
the best way to do that is to send press to yourself. If you send
press to observers, then all the players can see it if they use the
history command. If you send press to master, then only I will see it.
If anyone has any questions, please let me know.
I hope everyone enjoys the game - best of luck everyone!
Greg, GM
Comments
Message from Italy to all
First in?!? Woohoo!!! :-)
The Italian envoys are on their way to your respective capitals.
Super Mario
Message from Turkey to Russia
Russia,
I would like to extend a greeting up north. Being so close we have
some immediate things to discuss. I hope that we can work together
well and that both of our countries prosper for years to come.
Historically, this is often the case.
Turkey
Message from England to Austria, Italy, and Turkey
Hello, everyone - England checking in. Looking
to continue my country's fine tradition of
neighbourly diplomacy.
Message from Turkey to Austria
Austria,
Hello neighbor,
I want to extend some Turkish greetings to your great country. Soon
we will have some tough negotiations before us. I hope that we can
work things out well such that both of our countries grow and prosper.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Italy,
While we don't immediately border each other, your great navel
prowess quickly becomes a very decisive power in the Med. I hope that
we can work the Balkans to both of our advantages.
Turkey
Message from Turkey to England
England,
How's it going?
While we don't have anything specific to coord or discuss right
now...you want to exchange secret information in case we come across
any? While sometimes this type of information is worse than
worthless, othertimes it can help shape sound policy.
Turkey
Message from England to Turkey
Turkey - hello, and good luck in your corner of the world. Information-sharing sounds good to me. Alas, I don't have anything for you at the moment, but if I hear anything that might interest you, I'll certainly share it, supposing that you do the same for me.
With a little luck, we'll meet in Munich in a decade or so.
end press
Message from Russia to all
Greetings from St. Petersburg:
I, Nicholas II, Emperor and Autocrat of All the Russias, Tsar of Moscow,
Kiev, Wladimir, Novgorod, Kazan, Astrakhan, Poland, Siberia, the Chersonnese
Taurics, and Georgia, Lord of Pskov, Grand Duke of Smolensk, Lithuania,
Volhynia, Podolia and Finland, Prince of Estonia, Livonia, Courland and
Semigallia, Samogitia, Bielostock, Carelia, Tver, Yongoria, Perm, Vlatks,
Bolgaria, and of other lands, Lord and Grand Duke of Lower Novgorod,
Tchernigov, Riasan, Polotsk, Rostov, Yaroslav, Belosero, Oudoria, Obdoria,
Condia, Vitebsk, Mstislav, and all the Northern Region, Lord and Sovereign
of the lands of Iveria, Cartalinia, Kabardinia and the provinces of Armenia,
Lord of the Circassian and Mountain princes, Lord of Turkestan, Heir of
Norway, Duke of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Ditmarschen and Oldenburg,
Supreme Defender and Guardian of the Dogmas of the Church, greet you.
You may call me Nicky. Your Ambassadors are most welcome in the Winter
Palace, and My Ambassadors will be contacting you as soon as appropriate
transportation can be arranged.
Cordially,
Nicky.
Message from Italy to Turkey
Greetings from the west. I know that the conventional wisdom states
that Italy and Turkey must fight, but personally I find that to be a
load of hogwash. I've found that Italy and Turkey can get along just
fine, and even enjoy long relationships into the mid-game.
The key of course is limiting Turkish fleets and Italian armies. Italy
must be willing, once Austria is dispatched, to sail west around Iberia.
Turkey can get 2 fleets - one in Bla and one in say, Aeg for defense,
but any more fleets than that just signal an impending attack on Italy.
I'll be frank with you - I'll likely open up to Apu and Ion, but I don't
want to necessarily Lepanto against you - I find that it just bogs down
Italy *forever*. So, if you don't open Ank-Con (either bouncing in Bla
or actually getting in), then I will call off the Lepanto and move on
Austria. Plus that gives you the added security of making sure Russia
doesn't sneak into Bla and border 2 of your home centers. And usually
in the fall of 1901, Russia has to use his southern fleet to guarantee
Rumania, letting you take the Black Sea no matter what.
Hey I just got your earlier message - seems like we're both thinking
along the same lines - thoughts?
Mario
Message from France to all
*** L'Humanite *** Edition Centenniee ***
*** France to start new century, opens embassies ***
Yielding to the growing pressure from humanitarian organizations, the
french government finally decided to put an end to the Spanish
inquisition practices. The president has confirmed the authorization of
recruiting new armies whose main (and only!) duty will be to liberate
the Iberian people. To forego the suspicion which might arise in
neighboring and other european countries, the president also has
decided to end France's separatist policy and reopen the six main
embassies around Europe. Below we publish the message of the president
which the ambassadors carry to their destination:
***
Dear leaders of Europe
I wish you all an exciting and fun game. France's intention in this
game will be to prove that there is no more peaceful nation in Europe
than us. All my units should be considered as peacekeeping force and of
course are at your disposal should you feel the need for such help.
Application for the use of our armies and fleets should be sent via
"press to f", in case your cause is well founded, the units will be on
their way towards your country to bring peace to your people.(*)
Once again, good luck and have a good game!
Monsieur Coq au Vin Gris des Cotes de Toul
(*) Apply soon, apply often! Certain restrictions apply. Offer void
where prohibited. England need not apply.
Message from France to Turkey
Dear Sultan,
Let me welcome the great leader of the Turkish empire. I am wishing you
good luck for the game.
It would be somewhat unexpected to see cooperation or conflict between
our countries early in the game but I do expect and wish that the two of
us meet in the midgame somewhere around the Ionian sea. In my
experience starting diplomacy at that stage is quite late and much less
effective than when a good understanding is already built in from the
start. Therefore I am planning to chat with you from day one, that is
today and I wish to keep our embassies busy.
Moreover. Clearly the fact that we have little in common as far as
spheres of influence, could be greatly used for our own advantage. I
certainly see absolutely no reason why we should not conduct a
diplomatic alliance on the basis of trust and honesty. I am expecting
good contact with Russia and probably you will similarly have
information about Italy and Austria which might help me devising my
plans.
I hope that this philosophy of mine finds a partner in you and by the
time we become neighbors we will also be friends.
With best regards,
Tamas
Message from Austria to all
Greetings to all powers in Europe...European Ambassadors are welcome in Wien
and my Ambassadors will be contacting you as soon as transportation can be
arranged.
Haider, Duke of Carolingya and Ruler of Austria
Message from Russia to Turkey
> I would like to extend a greeting up north. Being so close we have
> some immediate things to discuss. I hope that we can work together
> well and that both of our countries prosper for years to come.
> Historically, this is often the case.
Obviously the first matter to discuss is the Black Sea and our Fleets.
Shall we agree to a safe, standard bounce, or would you like to try
something more ambitious like the Black Sea Exchange or Slingshot
Juggernaut?
Nicky.
Message from Austria to Turkey
Greetings,Sultan.
> Message from albrigh@mail.med.upenn.edu as Turkey to Austria in
'comments':
>
>
> Austria,
> Hello neighbor,
>
> I want to extend some Turkish greetings to your great country. Soon
> we will have some tough negotiations before us. I hope that we can
> work things out well such that both of our countries grow and prosper.
>
Austrian Greetings to your great nation.
No negotiation is tough when a common objective is put on the table...and
that objective can be something like peaceful borders between our great
nations,isn't it?Or something more complex like the Balcans?
Please let me hear your thoughts on this...
Haider, Duke of Carolingya and Ruler of Austria
Message from Turkey to Russia
> Obviously the first matter to discuss is the Black Sea and our Fleets.
> Shall we agree to a safe, standard bounce, or would you like to try
> something more ambitious like the Black Sea Exchange or Slingshot
> Juggernaut?
I would say that the best course of action would be a mutual bounce in
the Black Sea, which we can paint any way we like it to the rest of the
board.
From there, I like the idea of a Juggernaut; the trick of course is to
engineer the Italian-Austrian conflict which is necessary. I don't need
to point out what happens with IA vs. TR, especially if they can talk
England or Germany into mischievity.
so back the original point of a putative alliance...how do we turn a
bounce in the BLA and a traditional opening, into a Juggernaut? I
personally like to choose a good plan, but one that is conservative.
I am not familiar with the Black Sea Surprise (that Slingshot seems like
it could lead to too much trouble with the experienced Austrian player)?
turkey
Message from Turkey to Austria
> Austrian Greetings to your great nation.
> No negotiation is tough when a common objective is put on the table...and
> that objective can be something like peaceful borders between our great
> nations,isn't it?Or something more complex like the Balcans?
> Please let me hear your thoughts on this...
Austria,
I would like to pursue a A-T alliance. It seems to me that the RT
juggernaut ends up with Turkey on the short end of the stick.
If we can manipulat Italy into a quick demise and get English/German help
vs Russia, then we can make short work of both.
Of course, early on, Austria will need more units to make this work. I
prpse therefore, that we split the 4 Balkan centers early on. Then I get
tunis and Sev and Mos, while you get 3 Italian ceners plus War...and you
stay ahead one center until we reach the mid-game. To me, this type of
spliting up of centers would lead to a good solid alliance,as it would be
too difficult for either of us to try and stab the other.???
Just some random thoughs, let me know what you think.
Turkey
Message from Russia to Turkey
> I would say that the best course of action would be a mutual
> bounce in the Black Sea,
Agreed, that's certainly safest.
> I am not familiar with the Black Sea Surprise (that Slingshot seems like
> it could lead to too much trouble with the experienced Austrian player)?
Sorry, I should have laid them out for the Observers, anyway.
Black Sea Exchange:
Sev-Bla, Ank-Con, Con-Bul, Smy-Arm, followed by
RF Bla-Con, Con-Aeg, TA Arm-Sev. Russia takes Con, Turkey takes
Sev. In 1902, the Russian Fleet moves to Aeg. This gets the Russian
Fleet out into the Med were it can help Turkey over-run Italy. The level
of trust required to do this is phenomenal, though, since it's so easy to
bounce the move to Sev or Con and stab hard.
Slingshot Juggernaut:
Sev-Arm, Mos-Sev, War-Ukr, Ank-Bla, Smy-Ank, followed by
Bla S Ank-Arm, Sev S Ukr-Rum. The Russian Fleet is destroyed
so Turkey doesn't have to worry about it, and Russia rebuilds it in StP,
or as an extra Army. Then in 1902 Bla C Arm-Bul, and the Juggernaut
is rolling.
> so back the original point of a putative alliance...how do we turn a
> bounce in the BLA and a traditional opening, into a Juggernaut? I
> personally like to choose a good plan, but one that is conservative.
Well, we bounce in Bla in the Spring, then in the Fall, you move
Ank-Con, and I order F Sev S Ukr-Rum, and we push into Austria
from Rum and Bul. I wonder if we could get Italy to attack France?
That would be almost as good as him attacking Austria.
Nicky.
Message from Germany to all
Guten Tag, Herren und Damen of Europe. My apologies for my late entrance,
but here in the newly unified Germany, the bureaucracy isn't quite running
at full speed. I assure you, our response time will only get better.
In the mean time, I send my greetings, along with a generous serving of
impossibly heavy sausage products a prodigious quantity of beer. May you all
dine on them and become fat and laz -- er, content. Yes, content.
Most humbly, etc., etc.
Kaiser Erik
Message from Turkey to Russia
>Black Sea Exchange:
>Sev-Bla, Ank-Con, Con-Bul, Smy-Arm, followed by
>RF Bla-Con, Con-Aeg, TA Arm-Sev. Russia takes Con, Turkey takes
>Sev. In 1902, the Russian Fleet moves to Aeg. This gets the Russian
>Fleet out into the Med were it can help Turkey over-run Italy. The level
>of trust required to do this is phenomenal, though, since it's so easy to
>bounce the move to Sev or Con and stab hard.
What is your opinion about how hard these moves are to pull off
without others getting an idea about what is up? My opinion is that
if, from the get-go, we look like we are a Juggernaut, then everyone
gets all freaked out and they decide their policy based only on this.
(Same with the Early Leader Syndrome).
Perhaps it is better to pick one of these plans and follow it in
principle, but not exactly by the book..letting the overall feel of
diplomacy with Italy and Austria help decide which way we go.
For example, we try and get a feel who Austria trusts more and is
more likely to ally with...then we chose a strategy that makes our
moves more plausible to him.,i.e. if Austria seems to court turkey
for an alliance vs. Russia..then we go with a Black Sea variant that
has me going to ARM from the get go.
However, if Austria makes peace with you over Gal and wants to be
your ally, or something like that..then you move accordingly, like
going with the Slingshot Juggernaut.
Basically, we tell Austria what Austria wants to hear.
How does that sound?
Also, you've offered up some possibilies here....do you have a preference?
>
>Slingshot Juggernaut:
>Sev-Arm, Mos-Sev, War-Ukr, Ank-Bla, Smy-Ank, followed by
>Bla S Ank-Arm, Sev S Ukr-Rum. The Russian Fleet is destroyed
>so Turkey doesn't have to worry about it, and Russia rebuilds it in StP,
>or as an extra Army. Then in 1902 Bla C Arm-Bul, and the Juggernaut
>is rolling.
>
>> so back the original point of a putative alliance...how do we turn a
>> bounce in the BLA and a traditional opening, into a Juggernaut? I
>> personally like to choose a good plan, but one that is conservative.
>
>Well, we bounce in Bla in the Spring, then in the Fall, you move
>Ank-Con, and I order F Sev S Ukr-Rum, and we push into Austria
>from Rum and Bul. I wonder if we could get Italy to attack France?
>That would be almost as good as him attacking Austria.
Let's start trying to get a feel for the rest of the board.
Austria hasn't said much to me yet.
Italy has said basically that he doesn't want to see a fleet in Con
or he will Lepanto. (doesn't really want to Lepanto..but must protect
himself).
So I'll check back with Italy and try and negotiate no Lepanto. then
if things in the West look like England and Germany vs. France, then
we could get Italy to go after France. And even if it isn't E-G vs.
France, then maybe we could do our best to make it seem like that.
Russia.
Message from Turkey to Italy
>Greetings from the west. I know that the conventional wisdom states
>that Italy and Turkey must fight, but personally I find that to be a
>load of hogwash. I've found that Italy and Turkey can get along just
>fine, and even enjoy long relationships into the mid-game.
>I agree. Usually either Italy and turkey gets ousted
>early...however, I feel this is usually because Austria works it
>that way. If we don't let Austria dictate what is going down, then
>we are better off.
>The key of course is limiting Turkish fleets and Italian armies. Italy
>must be willing, once Austria is dispatched, to sail west around Iberia.
> Turkey can get 2 fleets - one in Bla and one in say, Aeg for defense,
>but any more fleets than that just signal an impending attack on Italy.
I agree here too. I also feel that Turkey doesn't need anymore
fleets than just protection.
>
>I'll be frank with you - I'll likely open up to Apu and Ion, but I don't
>want to necessarily Lepanto against you - I find that it just bogs down
>Italy *forever*.
I agree here too. A lepanto bogs down Italy, spreads it out...it
also limits Turkey's growth since Turkey has to use valuable
resources to stop it. A nice alternative is a quick parlay into
Austria..and definitely limiting early Austrian growth.
> So, if you don't open Ank-Con (either bouncing in Bla
>or actually getting in), then I will call off the Lepanto and move on
>Austria. Plus that gives you the added security of making sure Russia
>doesn't sneak into Bla and border 2 of your home centers. And usually
>in the fall of 1901, Russia has to use his southern fleet to guarantee
>Rumania, letting you take the Black Sea no matter what.
I am almost certain that I will bounce Black Sea..that is the safest
for both Russia and Turkey.
If I didn't move to Con, would you be willing to consider moving
against Austria and or France? all depending on how the Western
Triple works out? If Germany and England work agaisnt France, and we
make peace, this could work out well for you up to the mid-game..and
it could also spell wonders for a Italian and turkish alliance...we
both have separate spheres we can go after. We could engineer a
russian-austrian war with us making sure that we share the spoils of
Austria and the Balkans. then I move against Russia and you move West
and North.
thoughts?
Turkey
Message from Turkey to France
>Let me welcome the great leader of the Turkish empire. I am wishing you
>good luck for the game.
>
>It would be somewhat unexpected to see cooperation or conflict between
>our countries early in the game but I do expect and wish that the two of
>us meet in the midgame somewhere around the Ionian sea. In my
>experience starting diplomacy at that stage is quite late and much less
>effective than when a good understanding is already built in from the
>start. Therefore I am planning to chat with you from day one, that is
>today and I wish to keep our embassies busy.
>
>Moreover. Clearly the fact that we have little in common as far as
>spheres of influence, could be greatly used for our own advantage. I
>certainly see absolutely no reason why we should not conduct a
>diplomatic alliance on the basis of trust and honesty. I am expecting
>good contact with Russia and probably you will similarly have
>information about Italy and Austria which might help me devising my
>plans.
>
>I hope that this philosophy of mine finds a partner in you and by the
>time we become neighbors we will also be friends.
>
>With best regards,
>
>Tamas
That is a great plan (I couldn't have written it better myself..and I
might have to save this message for my next game!)
Not to reiterate...I agree completely. At this stage it would be
great to share information, although right now..there really isn't
much info I have for you (i don't even know how the East is going to
shape up). However, perhaps we can discuss the board as the first
moves progress???
My initial goal is that same as always early one...just survive
(can't get to the endgame unless you survive the first round of
alliances and stabs!).
I wish you the best in the game and hopefully it works out well for both of us,
Turkey
Message from Russia to Turkey
Well, I've written to and heard from everyone, so I
thought I'd check back and compare notes.
Austria - He seemed eager to work with me, but he
hasn't responded to my reply, yet.
England - Inexperienced? But friendly.
France - A player of our caliber, but he's likely
to be victimized by his less experienced neighbors.
He'd like to hear from you concerning Italy.
Germany - Inexperienced? Seems to view writing to
his ally as the only important thing.
Italy - Talented, but can he be trusted?
Russia - Nice guy, but long-winded. Everyone loves
him and no-one would think of attacking him! 8-)
Turkey - Cautious, but fundamentally sound. A
Scholar and a Gentleman! ;^)
Have you spoken with/heard from everyone, yet?
What's your take on our boardmates?
Nicky.
Message from Turkey to Russia
>Well, I've written to and heard from everyone, so I
>thought I'd check back and compare notes.
>
>Austria - He seemed eager to work with me, but he
>hasn't responded to my reply, yet.
Non-commital..hadn't heard back yet after first round of
pleasantries//deal-making. Inexperienced? Austria of all must be the
country most inclined to have a silver tongue and quick diplomacy to
keep us and Italy at bay. A quiet Austria will quickly be way too
quiet.
>
>England - Inexperienced? But friendly.
My read too..but it can be hard to tell right at the start.
>
>France - A player of our caliber, but he's likely
>to be victimized by his less experienced neighbors.
>He'd like to hear from you concerning Italy.
I agree. I just responded and got a dialogue going.
>
>Germany - Inexperienced? Seems to view writing to
>his ally as the only important thing.
If this is the case too, then we should really make sure that we
fomment discontent in the West.
>
>Italy - Talented, but can he be trusted?
Italy seems to be a straight shooter, which isn't always great either
for the player and their allies. Let's see how Italy responds to my
offer of an alliance deal on no turkish fleet vs no lepanto. Of
course in the East, I think that for an alliance to work two
countries must always feel that the two remaining countries need to
be at each other's throats. However, what usually seems to happen is
that there is a just a big quagmire in the East,everyone afraid to
make that first move of aggression (for above reasons)...in that
climate the Juggernaut is most fertile.
>
>Russia - Nice guy, but long-winded. Everyone loves
>him and no-one would think of attacking him! 8-)
>
>Turkey - Cautious, but fundamentally sound. A
>Scholar and a Gentleman! ;^)
I concure wholeheartedly on those two assessments!
turkey
Message from Russia to Turkey
> >Black Sea Exchange:
> >Slingshot Juggernaut:
> >Black Bounce:
> What is your opinion about how hard these moves are to pull off
> without others getting an idea about what is up?
Italy and France both seem experienced enough to
recognize any book opening and Italy will certainly
scream "JUGGERNAUT!" if he sees one.
> you've offered up some possibilies here....do you have a
> preference?
England and Germany both seems somewhat inexperienced,
so I'm concerned about how they'll react if someone
says Juggernaut. At this point, I think the bounce
in Bla is probably the way to go, though the Slingshot
has potential.
> Austria hasn't said much to me yet.
I just got one letter that sounded friendly, but
didn't go into detail. Italy is writing but when
you look at it, he's really not saying much. Have
you heard from/written to the Western Powers?
Nicky.
Message from Turkey to Russia
>
>> What is your opinion about how hard these moves are to pull off
>> without others getting an idea about what is up?
>
>Italy and France both seem experienced enough to
>recognize any book opening and Italy will certainly
>scream "JUGGERNAUT!" if he sees one.
I agree.
>
>> you've offered up some possibilies here....do you have a
>> preference?
>
>England and Germany both seems somewhat inexperienced,
>so I'm concerned about how they'll react if someone
>says Juggernaut.
I agree
> At this point, I think the bounce
>in Bla is probably the way to go, though the Slingshot
>has potential.
Agree also. bounce in Bla, and I'll move to Bul. Let's decide on my
last move once we get more out of Austria. These moves won't upset
Italy.
>
>> Austria hasn't said much to me yet.
>
>I just got one letter that sounded friendly, but
>didn't go into detail. Italy is writing but when
>you look at it, he's really not saying much. Have
>you heard from/written to the Western Powers?
I haven't heard anything of content from England and France. I
suppose you want to know if Germany plans on bouncing you in Sweden.
I'll try to get a read on Germany (haven't heard anything yet...only
country not to talk
Turkey
Message from France to Turkey
Hi Andrew,
I truly appreciate your kind reply and indeed it appears
that we have a good chance of conducting diplomacy on a
honest and constructive basis.
> >Moreover. Clearly the fact that we have little in common
> >as far as spheres of influence, could be greatly used for
> >our own advantage. I certainly see absolutely no reason
> >why we should not conduct a diplomatic alliance on the
> >basis of trust and honesty. I am expecting good contact
> >with Russia and probably you will similarly have
> >information about Italy and Austria which might help me
> >devising my plans.
>
> That is a great plan (I couldn't have written it better
> myself..and I might have to save this message for my next
> game!)
Thanks for the compliment!
> Not to reiterate...I agree completely. At this stage it
> would be great to share information, although right
> now..there really isn't much info I have for you (i don't
> even know how the East is going to shape up). However,
> perhaps we can discuss the board as the first moves
> progress???
This is certainly very useful but we might go somewhat
further than that. In my experience every single piece of
information adds to the big picture and putting many tiny
things on top of each other might bring us a huge pile. [[
Just one example: I always find it of great importance to
know who writes and how much in general. If you and Italy
exchange 10 letters about the weather in New Zealand, I
might not know what moves I should expect from him, but I do
ask myself the question: why is he not talking with me about
the weather in New Zealand...]]
I am certainly very interested in what's happening in the
east in general so whatever information you think is worth
sharing, I would always be delighted to hear. Let me give
an initial update of what I can see so far.
I have talked to everybody now, England and Germany are not
very talkative but Russia is friendly, so is Austria and
Italy seems to me a competent diplomat. In fact I have to
tell you that you might want to be very careful in the
beginning as both Russia and Italy look to me players who do
not make many mistakes.
I do not have a precise plan yet but I do hear rumors about
a forming northern alliance (EGR) and whether it is true or
not I do not want to be unprepared. I am trying to find
out about Austria's plans but he has not written much yet.
> My initial goal is that same as always early one...just
> survive (can't get to the endgame unless you survive the
> first round of alliances and stabs!).
I cannot agree more. My guess at this point is that a
friendly connection with Russia would satisfy most of your
expectations. From his talk I would say I find it pretty
unlikely that he would risk his reputation by lying as early
as 1901. And if it is true that they are cooking something
up in the north then you should definitely be able to
present him a viable alternative. I am positive that he has
not made up his mind yet and a loyal alliance might easily
steer him to the direction where he could make the most
surprises.
I would welcome your opinion on this issue as well as
information about who you have heared from so far. I
realize that the western powers might easily ignore you
(unlike me), and if they do not that is also a very
important thing for me to know.
> I wish you the best in the game and hopefully it works out
> well for both of us, Turkey
I agree completely. We cannot both win but one of us can
and we can both be part of a draw if we do not screw it up.
Good luck!!
Tamas
Message from Italy to Turkey
> >I agree. Usually either Italy and turkey gets ousted
> >early...however, I feel this is usually because Austria works it
> >that way. If we don't let Austria dictate what is going down, then
> >we are better off.
Right.
> I agree here too. I also feel that Turkey doesn't need anymore
> fleets than just protection.
It sounds like we're pretty much in agreement then.
> I agree here too. A lepanto bogs down Italy, spreads it out...it
> also limits Turkey's growth since Turkey has to use valuable
> resources to stop it. A nice alternative is a quick parlay into
> Austria..and definitely limiting early Austrian growth.
Right. The key, at least as far as I'm concerned is something along the
lines of: How do I attack Austria, without running into an RT
Juggernaught? Obviously if RT is coming, then I need to be-friend
Austria, because after Austria is gone, usually Italy is next. Obviously,
Ank-Bla in Spring AND fall would do wonders to help me out there.
> I am almost certain that I will bounce Black Sea..that is the safest
> for both Russia and Turkey.
Good.
>
> If I didn't move to Con, would you be willing to consider moving
> against Austria and or France? all depending on how the Western
> Triple works out? If Germany and England work agaisnt France, and we
> make peace, this could work out well for you up to the mid-game..and
Exactly what I'm thinking. I still need to work out somediplomacy with my
neighbors, but right now I'm thinking about maybe moving to Tyl or Pie?
> it could also spell wonders for a Italian and turkish alliance...we
> both have separate spheres we can go after. We could engineer a
> russian-austrian war with us making sure that we share the spoils of
> Austria and the Balkans. then I move against Russia and you move West
> and North.
Right - as I said before, conventional wisdom says it's hard for IT to
ally, and I think that's exactly why we *should* - nobody would expect it,
which can only work to our favor
Talk to you later
Mario
Message from England to Turkey
Greetings and salutations. In the spirit of our agreement to exchange information, I can give you reasonable assurances that G and I are going to work together against France for the forseeable future. That said, (1) this press never happened, (2) this information is for your own use, not to be shared, and (3) it's now your turn.
Message from England to Turkey
As an addendum to the press that never happened, "I" = "Italy", not "me."
Message to all
Opening Quiz:
1. The Western Triple is:
[ ] Name of a popular coctail served in
Liverpool bars after the death of
John Lennon
[ ] Austria, Italy and Turkey's common
interest in liberating Sevastopol.
2. Northern Alliance is:
[ ] A victorious coalition in Afghanistan.
[ ] A disguise of Russia and England
allying to dismember Germany.
3. Juggernaut is:
[ ] A nice spectacle when watched from the
MAO
[ ] Boring.
Message from Turkey to France
Tamas,
>
>I truly appreciate your kind reply and indeed it appears
>that we have a good chance of conducting diplomacy on a
>honest and constructive basis.
I concur!
>
>This is certainly very useful but we might go somewhat
>further than that. In my experience every single piece of
>information adds to the big picture and putting many tiny
>things on top of each other might bring us a huge pile. [[
>Just one example: I always find it of great importance to
>know who writes and how much in general. If you and Italy
>exchange 10 letters about the weather in New Zealand, I
>might not know what moves I should expect from him, but I do
>ask myself the question: why is he not talking with me about
>the weather in New Zealand...]]
Yes, that is true.
>I am certainly very interested in what's happening in the
>east in general so whatever information you think is worth
>sharing, I would always be delighted to hear. Let me give
>an initial update of what I can see so far.
I have found Russia to be an experienced diplomat. Italy obviously
knows a lot too; however, the Italian style is a little more to the
point. there isn't much subtly or reading between the lines.
right now the way I see it is that everyone is going to play things
close to the vest early on. No one wants to be the big, first
attacker and get some one all hot and bothered...because then the 3rd
and/or 4th powers will use that to their advantage....
I can't really do much from the start WRT to solid alliance play
since I am so bottled up. You'll see a bounce in BLA and then me
taking Bulgaria. In the fall things will get a little more dicey, and
maybe before then we can talk some more (it would be helpful to know
what is going on and what you think..it could be easy for me to miss
something right before my eyes.)
>
>I have talked to everybody now, England and Germany are not
>very talkative but Russia is friendly, so is Austria and
>Italy seems to me a competent diplomat. In fact I have to
>tell you that you might want to be very careful in the
>beginning as both Russia and Italy look to me players who do
>not make many mistakes.
>
>I do not have a precise plan yet but I do hear rumors about
>a forming northern alliance (EGR) and whether it is true or
>not I do not want to be unprepared. I am trying to find
>out about Austria's plans but he has not written much yet.
That was going to be my question...do you think there is a EG on? or
is it a EGR? And EGR might actually be more to your advantage since
you can work one against the other and try to find the weak
link...Germany? also it would be more difficult for them to keep a 3
way round of discussion/negotiations going. You can imagine it is
difficult for turkey to know EXACTLY what is going on in the east,
but my immpression both what you and others have/haven't written is
tha an EG or EGR are very likely....but you seem to know this?
That would of course suck for you, but isn't, of course the end of
the world. Recently I was France and after making 'dmzs' with E and G
on the first turn, they moved to ENG and BUR in S01. I survived
longer than Germany, and just as long as England. I don't need to
tell you that if you think an EG is on, the best thing to do is to
drive a wedge between them. In my mind, if I were playing Germany,
France is a much better ally as there is less to squable about. Also,
it is easier to take down England than to take down France.
>
> > My initial goal is that same as always early one...just
> > survive (can't get to the endgame unless you survive the
> > first round of alliances and stabs!).
>
>I cannot agree more. My guess at this point is that a
>friendly connection with Russia would satisfy most of your
>expectations. From his talk I would say I find it pretty
>unlikely that he would risk his reputation by lying as early
>as 1901. And if it is true that they are cooking something
>up in the north then you should definitely be able to
>present him a viable alternative. I am positive that he has
>not made up his mind yet and a loyal alliance might easily
>steer him to the direction where he could make the most
>surprises.
of course, if Russia is going to have things easy up in the north and
i decide to ally with Russia..then that isn't all that great for me
as I could become a weaker partner.
but..given Austria being quiet, I think that I am probably better off
working with Russia.
>I would welcome your opinion on this issue as well as
>information about who you have heared from so far. I
>realize that the western powers might easily ignore you
>(unlike me),
yeah, i haven't heard much from England and Germany (maybe they are
busy making plans?)
Talk to you soon
Andrew
Message from Turkey to Italy
>Right. The key, at least as far as I'm concerned is something along the
>lines of: How do I attack Austria, without running into an RT
>Juggernaught? Obviously if RT is coming, then I need to be-friend
>Austria, because after Austria is gone, usually Italy is next. Obviously,
>Ank-Bla in Spring AND fall would do wonders to help me out there.
sounds like we are on the same page. You must remember that turkey
is almost always a victim of a juggernaut in the end...and frequently
they don't work out at all. also, I am getting no indication that
Russia will have northern troubles...even more reason to be wary of
Russia.
>
>> I am almost certain that I will bounce Black Sea..that is the safest
>> for both Russia and Turkey.
>
>Good.
>
>>
>> If I didn't move to Con, would you be willing to consider moving
> > against Austria and or France? all depending on how the Western
>> Triple works out? If Germany and England work agaisnt France, and we
> > make peace, this could work out well for you up to the mid-game..and
>
>Exactly what I'm thinking. I still need to work out somediplomacy with my
>neighbors, but right now I'm thinking about maybe moving to Tyl or Pie?
that all depends what is going on WRT to Germany and Austria, I
guess. It looks like even France looks like E-G are going to attack.
If I were Italy, I would want some part of that. (unfortunate for
France though--oh well). And further, the last thing _anyone_ wants
is two countries to just roll, ala England and Germany and/or RT jug.
What have you heard from Austria?
>
>> it could also spell wonders for a Italian and turkish alliance...we
>> both have separate spheres we can go after. We could engineer a
>> russian-austrian war with us making sure that we share the spoils of
>> Austria and the Balkans. then I move against Russia and you move West
>> and North.
>
>Right - as I said before, conventional wisdom says it's hard for IT to
>ally, and I think that's exactly why we *should* - nobody would expect it,
>which can only work to our favor
I agree. We could easily do well if we can foment a Austrian-russian war.
Turkey
Message from Turkey to England
>Greetings and salutations. In the spirit of our agreement to
>exchange information, I can give you reasonable assurances that G
>and I are going to work together against France for the forseeable
>future. That said, (1) this press never happened, (2) this
>information is for your own use, not to be shared, and (3) it's now
>your turn.
1. what press
2. I won't share it, but it is hardly a secret....everyone seem to
know/assume this is happening (not sure what that means/important or
not)
3. I am reasonable sure that Italy is not going to attack me.
Austria is either going to attack me (not much press), or
thinks/knows Russia is going to help him attack me.
Message from France to Turkey
Andrew,
> In my mind, if I were playing Germany, France is a much
> better ally as there is less to squable about. Also, it is
> easier to take down England than to take down France.
I trust you that you do not hide this opinion of yours when
you are chatting with our German friend, do you?
Tamas
Message from Turkey to France
Certainly..as soon as I can get Germany to talk!
Message from Turkey to Germany
So, how is it going? I think you are the only power I haven't had a
chance to converse with yet. I wish you the best of luck this coming
game.
While we don't have any immediate issues to discuss, we certainly
have some common neighbors. If you are interested, I would be
willing to discuss this as it is probably in our best interests.
Message from Germany to Turkey
Sultan:
Good to hear from you. My apologies for not writing earlier, but like you, I
have been caught up with local matters. We must not allow that which is nearby
to disrupt the benefits of a long-distance relationship, eh?
I would love to discuss our mutual neighbors. I'm hoping we can shed some light
on each other's situations. I can tell you now that Italy may be headed toward
France, but is worried about Austria. Russia spoke with me briefly yesterday,
but has been quiet since; I have heard a rumor that he and England are cooking
something up. Not a peep from Austria, and that has me a bit spooked.
What's going on on your end?
Kaiser Erik
Message from Turkey to Germany
Germany
What you say is what i have heard save the following additions and changes:
Austria..I haven't heard from at all since yesterday..nothing of
substance..I think no one has heard anything.
Italy is crafty and I don't think will let on exactly what he is up
to. I do have a good rapport with him, but he writes a lot but
doesn't say much.
England is good and concise.
France and Russia have been the best diplomats. russia I need to
trust, so there is always the fear that he will tell me what I want
to hear. France, obviously I don't have that concern, but I am
impressed nonetheless.
So in summary, the general consensus is that in the West, France is
outside looking in, and nothing has been decided in the East.
Does that fit into what you would guess?
>
>I would love to discuss our mutual neighbors. I'm hoping we can shed
>some light
>on each other's situations. I can tell you now that Italy may be headed toward
>France, but is worried about Austria. Russia spoke with me briefly yesterday,
>but has been quiet since; I have heard a rumor that he and England are cooking
>something up. Not a peep from Austria, and that has me a bit spooked.
>
>What's going on on your end?
>
>Kaiser Erik
Message from Italy to Turkey
Well, if it is true that EG are going to attack France, then maybe I
should try and put some pressure on Germany? As you mention, we don't
want 2 countries to get a head-start on the rest of the board (unless it's
you and me!!)
Anyway I'll have to ponder that
Mario
Message from Turkey to Italy
>
>Well, if it is true that EG are going to attack France, then maybe I
>should try and put some pressure on Germany?
well..that may be true..depends on how you look at it I guess. (you
wouldn't want France to go down quickly--unless you got some of that
action.)..although I guess helping prop up a dying-France might be
good and set you up for his SCs as he'll be mad at England and
Germany....
turkey
> As you mention, we don't
>want 2 countries to get a head-start on the rest of the board (unless it's
>you and me!!)
Message from France to Turkey
Sultan,
Just checking in. Do you have any news about my neighbors?
I have the impression that Austria is the least active
diplomat, can you confirm this? Germany is stirring things
all over, I have now exchanged a few letters with him but
his intentions especially long-term ones are quite unclear.
Italy finally agreed to not moving to Piedmont (hope he will
not) and seems to be sitting on the fence for some time.
Let me ask an important question: did you explicitely
request Italy to take Tunis with a fleet?
thanks,
Tamas
Message from Turkey to France
I don't have any new news for you from your neighbors (actually no
one at all). Just exchanging pleasantries.
Very early on, I spoke with Italy, who said he was taking Tunis
(didn't say how)..and then if I kept a fleet out of the Med, Con,
then he wouldn't lepanto...that is all. He didn't say then if he
were going to go against you or Austria. (and of course he could
still lepanto)
Turkey
>
>Just checking in. Do you have any news about my neighbors?
>I have the impression that Austria is the least active
>diplomat, can you confirm this? Germany is stirring things
>all over, I have now exchanged a few letters with him but
>his intentions especially long-term ones are quite unclear.
>Italy finally agreed to not moving to Piedmont (hope he will
>not) and seems to be sitting on the fence for some time.
>Let me ask an important question: did you explicitely
>request Italy to take Tunis with a fleet?
>
>thanks,
>
>Tamas
Message from Germany to Turkey
Sultan:
Yes, I think you've got it right. France appears to be the odd man out to
some degree, simply by virtue of having gotten a late diplomatic start, but
who can say for sure? I know Italy was gunning for him early. I assume he
still is.
Russia and England are definitely cooperating closely on something, but I'm
sort of in the dark about what. I hope they're not planning a pincher move,
but if Russia's not concerned about threats from England or Germany (I have
been cordially agreeing to various demilitarized agreements with both), you
should keep an eye on him. I would certainly seek a Black Sea bounce, if
nothing else.
I'll let you know if I hear anything else.
Kaiser Erik
Message from Austria to all
Hello everyone!
I've returned from a trip...I'll answer to all of you tomorrow,Monday.
Master...may we have a little delay,at least until Tuesday? If everyone
agrees,of course.
Haider, Duke of Carolingya and Ruler of Austria.
Message from Master to all
Players,
I'm extending the deadline per Austria's request.
As a reminder, please be sure to ask for deadline extensions in
advance of the turn for which they're needed. I usually don't grant
them otherwise.
Greg, GM
Comments
Message from Turkey to Germany
>Yes, I think you've got it right. France appears to be the odd man out to
>some degree, simply by virtue of having gotten a late diplomatic start, but
>who can say for sure? I know Italy was gunning for him early. I assume he
>still is.
Yeah, it's interesting how frequently it seems that when you have a
group of 3 countries, the last person to start diploming usually is
the oddman out. The only exception seems to be if there is some
knucklehead who actually pisses someone off right from the get go.
Like an England that demands Belgium or something. In the East it is
probably less important since you have a 4 way triangle to resolve.
Although, Austria is probably in trouble since Austria really needs
to talk his way out of early trouble.
>Russia and England are definitely cooperating closely on something, but I'm
>sort of in the dark about what.
I would assume it is in russian interests to keep things calm for
himself up north. Being friendly with both you and England is to his
advantage. However, I'm sure I don't need to point out to you that if
there is a strong England and strong Russia, that after France is
gone, Germany is usually next.
Since that scenario is not very good for me either..let's keep tabs
on the situation.
>I hope they're not planning a pincher move,
>but if Russia's not concerned about threats from England or Germany (I have
>been cordially agreeing to various demilitarized agreements with both), you
>should keep an eye on him. I would certainly seek a Black Sea bounce, if
>nothing else.
you will assuredly see a bounce in the Black Sea.
Turkey
Message from Turkey to Russia
So do we have some agreement on our first moves in the Balkan/Black
sea theater?
I'll order
ank-bla
con-bul
but what of Smyrna? do we wait to try and see what Austria is thinking?
turkey
Message from Russia to Turkey
> So do we have some agreement on our first moves in
> the Balkan/Black sea theater?
> I'll order
> ank-bla
> con-bul
Yes, and I'll bounce Bla with Sev and move to take
Rum with an Army.
> but what of Smyrna?
Ummm, Smy Hold would allow Ank-Con, Smy-Ank, build
F Smy in the Fall, which would set you up nicely to
expand into the Med, while Smy-Con would make that
less effective. I suppose Smy-Ank, or Smy-Arm would
be as effective as Smy HOLD, but I'd rather not see
either of us in Arm.
Nicky.
Message from Turkey to Russia
> > So do we have some agreement on our first moves in
>> the Balkan/Black sea theater?
>
>> I'll order
>> ank-bla
>> con-bul
>
>Yes, and I'll bounce Bla with Sev and move to take
>Rum with an Army.
>
>> but what of Smyrna?
>
>Ummm, Smy Hold would allow Ank-Con, Smy-Ank, build
>F Smy in the Fall, which would set you up nicely to
>expand into the Med, while Smy-Con would make that
>less effective. I suppose Smy-Ank, or Smy-Arm would
>be as effective as Smy HOLD, but I'd rather not see
>either of us in Arm.
I'll order Smy h or Smy-Ank for now, unless we decide Smy-Arm is
better (in the event it is necessary to fake out Austria) and then
I'll change it to Smy-Arm.
so for now:
con-bul
ank-bla
smy-ank
Message to all
1. Austria badly needs the extension to
[ ] rethink the order of F Tri
[ ] renegotiate the status of Gal
[ ] read all the articles about the Key Lepanto.
2. Thanks to the one-day extension, Austria will
[ ] survive until at least 1903
[ ] not go abandoned for at least another season
[ ] write an article about the Key Lepanto.
3. Austria has filed SET ABSENCE for
[ ] S1901 Retreat.
[ ] F1901 Adjustment, but he will have no orders due
[ ] F1901, S1902, F1902, i.e. for his entire game
Message from Russia to Turkey
I've gotten word from a couple of Powers that information I shared
with Austria about my northern plans has been forwarded by him to
others, and that he has been claiming that he rejected a proposal I
made to attack Germany, when, in fact, I rejected the proposal HE
made. I suggest that you weigh all his press carefully, don't
automatically believe anything he says, and be extremely careful
what you reveal to him from now on. I know I will be!
In alliance,
Nicky.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Russia,
Not to worry...I am firmly in your court WRT to attacking Austria.
While I don't have any personal gripe with Austria (yet), I feel that
we have established a good rapport and we need to make sure that we
take full advantage of this, develop a good alliance, which should
put us in a very good position for the midgame.
Turkey
>I've gotten word from a couple of Powers that information I shared
>with Austria about my northern plans has been forwarded by him to
>others, and that he has been claiming that he rejected a proposal I
>made to attack Germany, when, in fact, I rejected the proposal HE
>made. I suggest that you weigh all his press carefully, don't
>automatically believe anything he says, and be extremely careful
>what you reveal to him from now on. I know I will be!
>
>In alliance,
>
>Nicky.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Italy,
Just to check in...my moves will be as described before. Hope to talk
to you in depth after we see spring '01 moves
Message from Italy to Turkey
Sorry for my recent silence. I agree - no real news here - let's talk
again once moves are out
Message from Austria to Turkey
Greetings Sultan.
Excuse my late mail....I forgot to answer you.It seemed I had already
answered...
> If we can manipulat Italy into a quick demise and get English/German help
> vs Russia, then we can make short work of both.
>
> Of course, early on, Austria will need more units to make this work. I
> prpse therefore, that we split the 4 Balkan centers early on. Then I get
> tunis and Sev and Mos, while you get 3 Italian ceners plus War...and you
> stay ahead one center until we reach the mid-game. To me, this type of
> spliting up of centers would lead to a good solid alliance,as it would be
> too difficult for either of us to try and stab the other.???
>
> Just some random thoughs, let me know what you think.
> Turkey
>
About manipulating Italy...it would be a good try.I guess he is heading to
France...but he didn't «opened the game» with me.
About Russians,they are quite well with Brits and Germans.
About Balkans..may I propose Serbia/Greece to Austria and Rumania/Bulgaria
to Turkey?
Later on you think what's best.
Haider,Duke of Carolingya and Ruler of Austria
Message from Turkey to Austria
>About manipulating Italy...it would be a good try.I guess he is heading to
>France...but he didn't ´opened the gameª with me.
let's see where he goes. If he goes west, we won't have much to talk
about. If he goes East, then we need to work against him.
>About Russians,they are quite well with Brits and Germans.
That isn't good for either of us.
>About Balkans..may I propose Serbia/Greece to Austria and Rumania/Bulgaria
>to Turkey?
I think we can agree on Serbia to Austria and Bulgaria to Turkey.
however, after that, it may be easier for you to take Rumania..than
for me to take it. Let's talk again quickly after the spring moves.
Again, I would be willing to work with you in an equal partnership.
good luck in the Spring
Message from Turkey to England
I heard nothing more of use to either of us. good luck this spring,
and let's talk shortly after our first round of moves.
Remember you don't attack Con this turn, and I'll leave London alone!!!
Turkey
Message from Turkey to France
Good luck with the Spring!!! I tried to twist the ear of Germany WRT
to R-E, hopefully that works out
Message from France to Turkey
> Good luck with the Spring!!! I tried to twist the ear of
> Germany WRT to R-E, hopefully that works out
Good luck for you too! I appreciate your effort on Germany,
at the same time I worked on picturing Austria as the bad
guy for Russia while praising your apparent sensible
attitude. We should resume chatting after the spring,
Best,
Tamas
Message from Russia to all
I was thinking that since it's five hours before the deadline, it might
be interesting for everyone to send a Press to themselves, and
explain to the "commentators" watching, what we're each really
thinking and planning, and what we expect to happen when the
results come through.
Eric Hunter,
"Nicky" of Russia in 'comments' on USTX.
Message from Master to all
> Broadcast message from Dip_Power@comcast.net as Russia in 'comments':
>
> I was thinking that since it's five hours before the deadline, it might
> be interesting for everyone to send a Press to themselves, and
> explain to the "commentators" watching, what we're each really
> thinking and planning, and what we expect to happen when the
> results come through.
Indeed, that's what some of the commentators have been asking me to
suggest.
Like Eric says, if you send press to yourself, the commentators will
see it.
Greg, GM
Comments
Message from Turkey to Turkey
Dear Self,
So I wonder how things are going to shake out.
Russia, seems that h will be good to me in the short run
Austria..he is in a bad spot, but I hope that he attacks Russia
short-term. Hopefully he will be looking for a friend early on.
Italy is a wild-card, I have no idea what he will do. If he doesn't
attack France or Germany, hen I will have to go out of my way to keep him
in play WRT to attacking Austria.
France,E,G just exchaning info with them at this point.
My reads on the players so far:
Russia, good player, is smart to be everyone's friend.
Italy-not much tact, but obviously one of those swarmy, good players. A
Snake in the Grass, if BillClinton played Diplomcy, he would be Italy in
this game.
Austria-didn't pick a good time to go on vacaation.
Germany and England - not much idea.
France-good player, but by the sounds of it, E-G are attacking him..but i
find that hard to believe that E-G would let this be _THAT_ well-known.
suspect that either E-G are rank amatuers or we might see some surprises.
Good night moon,
Good night Stars,
Self
Austria: Army Budapest → Serbia
Austria: Fleet Trieste → Albania
Austria: Army Vienna → Galicia
England: Fleet Edinburgh → North Sea
England: Army Liverpool → Yorkshire
England: Fleet London → English Channel
France: Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Marseilles → Spain
France: Army Paris → Burgundy (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Berlin → Kiel
Germany: Fleet Kiel → Holland
Germany: Army Munich → Burgundy (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Naples → Ionian Sea
Italy: Army Rome → Venice
Italy: Army Venice → Piedmont
Russia: Army Moscow → Ukraine
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Gulf of Bothnia
Russia: Army Warsaw → Livonia
Turkey: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Smyrna → Ankara (*bounce*)
|