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England: Removes 1 unit
France: Builds 1 unit
Germany: Builds 1 unit
Italy: Removes 1 unit
Message from Russia to Germany and Italy
Gentlemen,
> Message from Italy to Germany and Russia in 'comments':
>
> Now, while I accept that it is a good thing to get Germany back into
> his home centers, I now have a disband and Germany has an unusable
> build. Was this really the best option?
Obviously not. With Austria retreating from Pie, France building,
England being eliminated, and the fool Turk moving to Moscow, an
Italian disband is the last thing we need to see.
> In any case, I'm retreating to Berlin and we can talk about what to
> do in adjustments later.
If you can convince Austria to move back to Pie, A Tus might be an
option. Otherwise, A Ber seems like the best choice
Nicky.
Message from Austria to Italy
Mario,
I apologize, I got nervous.
I didnt hear from you all week and thought that you were cutting your
losses.
I didnt do anything that actually hurts you, but I am so screwed its
frightening.
The Turk has played the Russian like a cheap drum.
We need to get the French to back off.
I ask that you disband the army in Tuscany, I will MAKE the French
understand that we are going to stop Turkey and if he hinders that effort
in any way that we will both attack him full force, giving Turkey the
game.
I will be following up with a press to both of you.
Please tell me I havent ruined our relationship.
Andy
Message from Austria to France and Italy
Gentlemen,
We have a situation and an opportunity.
The situation revolves around the fact that Russia has been doing
everything in its power to help the Turk attack me, for what reason
I am not clear on.
The opportunity revolves around being able to stop the Turkish war
machine.
Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied Moscow again he
would help attack him full out until he was dead. Well...Turkey is in
Moscow, and the Russian seems well to carry out his threat.
Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I coordinate and deal
with the Turk, I have asked Mario to disband the army in Tuscany, and I
will move Venice back to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and
carry out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in the Gulf
of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or the Austro-Italian
forces as long as you keep the fleet in the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to
work on the Turk.
With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort into stopping
the behemoth that he has become. He is guaranteed at least one build this
coming year.
I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
thanks
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
> Please tell me I havent ruined our relationship.
We have a relationship? Seems to me like it consists of you asking me to
do things, and then you doing whatever you feel like. This is what, the
2nd? 3rd? time in a row for this?
But, to be fair, our "relationship" before that consisted of me doing
probably the same things...
In any case, I think that I need France or Turkey out of the game if I
have any hope to survive. Your plan seems reasonable enough, should
France agree to it. Couple of problems.
1. If I keep Ber what's it doing? I can't continue to fight france (with
GR) in the north, or France won't leave us alone in the Med. To Sil/Gal?
2. How are we going to stop Turkey, even given full AIR cooperation?
Message from France to Austria and Italy
Andy, Mario,
> Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied
> Moscow again he would help attack him full out until he
> was dead. Well...Turkey is in Moscow, and the Russian
> seems well to carry out his threat.
Did he say so? If yes why was he not among the addressees?
> Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I
> coordinate and deal with the Turk, I have asked Mario to
> disband the army in Tuscany, and I will move Venice back
> to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and carry
> out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in
> the Gulf of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or
> the Austro-Italian forces as long as you keep the fleet in
> the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to work on the Turk.
For many seasons I have been trying to show Mario via moves
and my talk that I am no threat to him, but rather I provide
help which I indeed did (on one particular occasion at
Andy's expense). My latest (almost fatal) act was an army
build in Paris at his demand, we all saw how Italy repaid
this.
I have been thinking how much farther I can go with making
one-sided commitments and frankly, I see less and less
justification for doing so. But, I do sense that this is an
opportunity: not in Andy's sense but for the very fact that
we might fix a three-way agreement which is a nice
guarantee.
I will not go as far as promising precise orders and moves
on my part, I simply cannot afford it after two seasons of
defense against a 5-power alliance. But, if that is good
enough, I will promise that I will not attack Italy in any
sense and that my moves will be such that this is obvious.
I will also promise that I will not tip off the Turk. One
further thing I want is that Italy stops working with
Germany against me.
> With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort
> into stopping the behemoth that he has become. He is
> guaranteed at least one build this coming year.
>
> I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
>
> Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
It is certainly a good starting point, and I am certainly
happy to do real diplomacy after some silence on the
incoming telephone lines.
Looking forward to your comments,
Tamas
Message from Austria to France and Italy
Tamas, Mario
>
>
> > Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied
> > Moscow again he would help attack him full out until he
> > was dead. Well...Turkey is in Moscow, and the Russian
> > seems well to carry out his threat.
>
> Did he say so? If yes why was he not among the addressees?
Becuase in my experience if you are willing to broadcast that threat to
the entire game, you mean it.
I have gone to him for reassurances on it
> > Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I
> > coordinate and deal with the Turk, I have asked Mario to
> > disband the army in Tuscany, and I will move Venice back
> > to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and carry
> > out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in
> > the Gulf of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or
> > the Austro-Italian forces as long as you keep the fleet in
> > the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to work on the Turk.
>
> For many seasons I have been trying to show Mario via moves
> and my talk that I am no threat to him, but rather I provide
> help which I indeed did (on one particular occasion at
> Andy's expense). My latest (almost fatal) act was an army
> build in Paris at his demand, we all saw how Italy repaid
> this.
>
We have all been decieving the other fro some time now. I think we can get
past this.
> I have been thinking how much farther I can go with making
> one-sided commitments and frankly, I see less and less
> justification for doing so. But, I do sense that this is an
> opportunity: not in Andy's sense but for the very fact that
> we might fix a three-way agreement which is a nice
> guarantee.
I agree.
> I will not go as far as promising precise orders and moves
> on my part, I simply cannot afford it after two seasons of
> defense against a 5-power alliance.
I think that I showed you last turn that I dont want to fight you.
I think you can also describe Mario's moves to be defensive in nature.
We both feel a bit of a squeeze right now, and I am trying to make it
possible for he and I to deal with the Turk....
Im pretty sure I can get the Russian on board, I am awaiting an answer to
the note I sent him.
But, if that is good
> enough, I will promise that I will not attack Italy in any
> sense and that my moves will be such that this is obvious.
> I will also promise that I will not tip off the Turk. One
> further thing I want is that Italy stops working with
> Germany against me.
I know I can agree to this, and I wont speak for Mario, but in my eyes it
seems very reasonable.
> > With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort
> > into stopping the behemoth that he has become. He is
> > guaranteed at least one build this coming year.
> >
> > I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
> >
> > Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
>
> It is certainly a good starting point, and I am certainly
> happy to do real diplomacy after some silence on the
> incoming telephone lines.
As am I.
Be well
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
Mario,
I asked Austria if he'd be willing to commit to moving Ven-Pie if you
disband Tus. He said he'd asked you to disband Tus, and would
consider the move to Pie.
Nicky.
Message from France to Italy
Dear Mario,
I would appreciate your comments to Austria's proposal. I
will not repeat my honest explanation of why I did what I
did and how I think it was pro-Italian rather than
aggressive because you are surely bored of it now.
I have to compliment on the arrangement of the anti-French
campaign at the same time, I only saved my ass by incredible
luck and guesswork. Of course it is hard to keep that many
powers together and the fact that Germany wanted Kie-Hol to
fail did not help a lot but I still could have suffered big
if I had guessed wrong.
The fortunate annihilation of F NAO makes my defense pretty
good all over therefore I surely can afford to watch the
spectacular AI against T keeping only a very limited force
in the south. The only weak point I see is that the list of
major Austrian lies in this game has grown to an incredible
size. If you tell me that you trust his suggestion and you
are interested in stopping your anti-French campaign then I
am more than ready to continue our partnership.
Tamas
Message from Turkey to Italy
OK, what now? I didn't attack you, and now France is pissed. Austria
and I are at war, and Russia is pissed.
turkey
Message from Italy to France
Tamas,
> campaign at the same time, I only saved my ass by incredible
> luck and guesswork. Of course it is hard to keep that many
> powers together and the fact that Germany wanted Kie-Hol to
> fail did not help a lot but I still could have suffered big
> if I had guessed wrong.
Well, I think you played it excellently. The record will show that the
moves I preferred would have cost you Holland, and left IGR (should that
continue to exist) in much better position. But, whatever...
> major Austrian lies in this game has grown to an incredible
> size. If you tell me that you trust his suggestion and you
> are interested in stopping your anti-French campaign then I
> am more than ready to continue our partnership.
Oh this concerns me quite a bit. At this point though what can I do? I
feel quite strongly that I can not be a viable force in this game while
you and Turkey are alive. I am fine with it being you (i.e. Turkey being
eliminated). I assume you are as well? :-)
Certainly myself and somebody (Russia? Germany?) will need to keep an eye
on Austria.
And needless to say I will cease my anti-F efforts in the north.
Message from Italy to Turkey
Well, thanks to Germany, first I have to decide what unit to remove. My
next goal will be to retake Venice. After that, I'll continue to try and
gain some other supply center. It's not looking good for me I think, but
nonetheless I will march on...
Message from Italy to Austria
So, if I remove A Tus, a) what do I do with A Ber, b) how do I get a
center to make up for the fact that Germany is going to take Berlin
(regardless of whether or not it's a good idea for him). Tangentially c)
when do I get Venice back?
Worth anything to have France's fleet pass through Ion to give us another
fleet against Turkey?
I'd be okay with it passing through Tys and/or Ion if my fleets occupied
Nap and Tun. A 4th fleet might come in handy. But with Turkey's forces
so land-oriented, any attack on him is going to need to come from southern
Russia - we'll never be able to penetrate his naval defenses
Message from Austria to Italy
> So, if I remove A Tus, a) what do I do with A Ber, b) how do I get a
> center to make up for the fact that Germany is going to take Berlin
> (regardless of whether or not it's a good idea for him). Tangentially c)
> when do I get Venice back?
A) I dont know.
B) As soon as I can get one to you. If I had the position to do so, I
would support you to Greece this year, and I might have the position in
the fall.
C) As soon as I get a build.
> Worth anything to have France's fleet pass through Ion to give us another
> fleet against Turkey?
If you are comfortable with it, I can work with it, its not my call. But I
dont want him in the Adriatic.
> I'd be okay with it passing through Tys and/or Ion if my fleets occupied
> Nap and Tun. A 4th fleet might come in handy. But with Turkey's forces
> so land-oriented, any attack on him is going to need to come from southern
> Russia - we'll never be able to penetrate his naval defenses
We will make it happen.
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
> B) As soon as I can get one to you. If I had the position to do so, I
> would support you to Greece this year, and I might have the position in
> the fall.
Uh how are you possibly going to have position to do so this fall? I
can barely paint a reasonable position that you'd have ths position to do
so NEXT fall.
Which doesn't change the fact that I agree that something needs to happen
about Turkey, I just am not seeing anything happening for at least a year.
1) How can AIR attack against Turkey, given full AIR cooperation?
2) How long can AIR maintain full cooperation?
These are the big questions to answer...
Message from Italy to Russia
So, tactically, how can AIR proceed against TUrkey, if you are in fact
up for that (I'm assuming that you are based on Turkey's re-entry into
Moscow)
On the northern front, it seems that if I am fully engaged with Turkey,
then I would need to dis-engage with France. I think Tamas would agree to
that, but an obvious condition is that I not attack him with you and
Germany.
In other news, Tamas in an offhand way seemed to suggest that Germany
leaked to him that he wished Kie-Hol to fail. I believe it, which makes
me even less anxious to work with him. Heck if I could be convinced that
Tamas would let you and I take most of the spoils, I could almost be
convinced to do FIR vs. G. The only problem remains what to do once
Germany is gone - could either of us (or both of us together) stop France
if we're also trying to contain Turkey? Or would France just sit and
waive builds and such while we finish off Turkey? DOubtful on both
counts...
Thoughts?
Message from Austria to Italy
> > B) As soon as I can get one to you. If I had the position to do so, I
> > would support you to Greece this year, and I might have the position in
> > the fall.
>
> Uh how are you possibly going to have position to do so this fall? I
> can barely paint a reasonable position that you'd have ths position to do
> so NEXT fall.
I almost said....Lets call it a secret for the time being, but thought
that might not sit really well with you right now.
Well....this is all assuming that the Russian carries out his
threat...which he has reassured me he is doing.
This is the only window in which the Turk can take Warsaw.
Warsaw is supporting Vienna to Gal.
Budapest is supporting Serbia - Rumania
if the Turk takes warsaw with Gal, Warsaw retreats to the Ukraine
the likely way for turkey to try to take Serbia is Rum supporting Bul....
We swap centers in Ser and Rum, but Russia has an army in Ukraine.
And I have Serbia surrounded, in Tri, Bud, Rum, Gal... we get a Turkish
dot.
> 1) How can AIR attack against Turkey, given full AIR cooperation?
I just outlined the land war.
> 2) How long can AIR maintain full cooperation?
As long as Russia is on board, we seem to be doing alright.
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
Okay that looks pretty good. There are some holes of course, but it's
hard to detail a fool proof plan when we are out-numberd as we are. Given
what I've seen out of the Turk, odds are good that that plan will succeed.
The big weakness is Gal-Bud, Bul S Rum-Ser, but hopefully Turkey won't go
there. It's also risky (since it risks Bud-Rum) and he seems pretty
risk-averse.
So anyway, what good does my unit in Berlin do? What is your unit in
Tyrolia doing? What I'm getting at is why can't I just keep A Tus, and,
assuming things go well in spring, retake Venice in the fall. I know it's
never fun to potentially remove, but since I think it's inevitable that
Germany will make a play at Berlin. So you're asking me to go down to 3
centers so you can stay at 5?
Sure there are other options (like Bur,Tyl S Ber-Mun), but they're not as
good really.
I mean I'm always willing to keep you from a removal if it would crumble
our line, but from what I see, your A Tyl is not currently doing anything
an Italian unit couldn't do.
At this point I"m just bringing it up - it's not at the point where I'm
saying give me Venice this turn or I'll implode to Turkey or France. I
don't even want to go there, and I think that between the two of us we can
work something out.
Thoughts?
Message from Turkey to Italy
Italy,
I don't think it looks that bad for you. Remove your northern army ,
which never had any future, and take advantage of France and myself
not working together...and me attacking Austria full-on.
Of course now that you are firmly in the Ionian, I would like some assurances.
if you were to move on France, I will support you into Venice. You
don't have to worry about me attacking you for a while. 1) I need to
kill Austria first, and 2) i need you to block French expansion.
However, if you sit on the fence and play conservatively (i.e. not
like you played at the start), I would imagine you will eventually
get squeezed out?
turkey
Message from Austria to Italy
> So anyway, what good does my unit in Berlin do? What is your unit in
> Tyrolia doing?
Supporting VEN - TRI, to make sure it gets there.
What I'm getting at is why can't I just keep A Tus, and,
> assuming things go well in spring, retake Venice in the fall. I know it's
> never fun to potentially remove, but since I think it's inevitable that
> Germany will make a play at Berlin. So you're asking me to go down to 3
> centers so you can stay at 5?
Because if you want me to walk away from your border, I have to feel
comfortable doing it, and with a bored army in Tuscany I REALLY dont feel
comfortable.
> I mean I'm always willing to keep you from a removal if it would crumble
> our line, but from what I see, your A Tyl is not currently doing anything
> an Italian unit couldn't do.
You are making suggestions that are phenomenally one-sided here.
You not only are asking me to disband, you are asking me to intermix our
units....
There is no downside at all for you, and I take all the risk.
> At this point I"m just bringing it up - it's not at the point where I'm
> saying give me Venice this turn or I'll implode to Turkey or France. I
> don't even want to go there, and I think that between the two of us we can
> work something out.
>
> Thoughts?
First and foremost, I think if I disband at this point, my position is
dead, and Turkey will get all my dots, except maybe Venice.
I am touching Turkish units on all of my borders, the only dot I have
which doesnt touch a turkish unit is in Venice.
Thanks to the Russian's help, the Turk is in a great position to just
continue to beat down on me, since noone is really challenging him but me.
Hopefully the Russian turning to help me, will change some things.
I am in a very very tough position.
Message from Italy to Austria
> Because if you want me to walk away from your border, I have to feel
> comfortable doing it, and with a bored army in Tuscany I REALLY dont feel
> comfortable.
That's reasonable. I'd say it's also reasonable that I don't feel
comfortable with a plan that is all but guaranteed to see me drop to 3
centers this year.
> You are making suggestions that are phenomenally one-sided here.
I could say the same thing.
> You not only are asking me to disband, you are asking me to intermix our
> units....
No - my units would stop at Venice.
> First and foremost, I think if I disband at this point, my position is
> dead, and Turkey will get all my dots, except maybe Venice.
Well after thinking about things I'm going to go ahead and disband A Tus,
though I think you're selling your position short. Either that or you're
over-hyping your position in your other emails. I mean you just told me in
an email earlier today about how you could support me to Greece this fall.
It's either one or the other...
Guess we'll see how things work out...
Message from Austria to Italy
>
> > Because if you want me to walk away from your border, I have to feel
> > comfortable doing it, and with a bored army in Tuscany I REALLY dont feel
> > comfortable.
>
> That's reasonable. I'd say it's also reasonable that I don't feel
> comfortable with a plan that is all but guaranteed to see me drop to 3
> centers this year.
>
That is fair also.
> > You are making suggestions that are phenomenally one-sided here.
>
> I could say the same thing.
you could....I wouldnt agree with you completely.
> > You not only are asking me to disband, you are asking me to intermix our
> > units....
>
> No - my units would stop at Venice.
>
Oh...thats very different....I thought you were suggesting that the army
in Berlin get involved where it might land somewhere like Galacia.
> > First and foremost, I think if I disband at this point, my position is
> > dead, and Turkey will get all my dots, except maybe Venice.
>
> Well after thinking about things I'm going to go ahead and disband A Tus,
> though I think you're selling your position short. Either that or you're
> over-hyping your position in your other emails. I mean you just told me in
> an email earlier today about how you could support me to Greece this fall.
> It's either one or the other...
Well....you make a good point. But if you take Venice and Russia doesnt
work with me, Turkey takes all my dots.
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
> Oh...thats very different....I thought you were suggesting that the army
> in Berlin get involved where it might land somewhere like Galacia.
Well, if I keep the army in Berlin, what else am I going to do with it but
send it to Silesia or somewhere over there? Work with GR against France?
CAn't happen or France will interfere in the Med. Work with F against G?
Not so good since then France will become dominant in the north. The
argument against our inter-mixing is an argument for keeping A Tus, not
that we really have time to talk about this in depth (since teh deadaline
is real soon and I'm about to go to bed)
> Well....you make a good point. But if you take Venice and Russia doesnt
> work with me, Turkey takes all my dots.
Given. That's why I was saying I would only take it if things went well
in spring.
Message from Austria to Italy
> > Well....you make a good point. But if you take Venice and Russia doesnt
> > work with me, Turkey takes all my dots.
>
> Given. That's why I was saying I would only take it if things went well
> in spring.
sounds fair.
take care
Andy
England: REMOVE Fleet North Atlantic Ocean (*no order*)
France: BUILD Fleet Brest
Germany: WAIVE
Italy: REMOVE Army Berlin
Centers
Austria: 5
France: 9
Germany: 5
Italy: 4
Russia: 3
Turkey: 8
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