|
|
England: Removes 1 unit
France: Builds 1 unit
Germany: Builds 1 unit
Italy: Removes 1 unit
Message from Austria to France and Italy
Gentlemen,
We have a situation and an opportunity.
The situation revolves around the fact that Russia has been doing
everything in its power to help the Turk attack me, for what reason
I am not clear on.
The opportunity revolves around being able to stop the Turkish war
machine.
Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied Moscow again he
would help attack him full out until he was dead. Well...Turkey is in
Moscow, and the Russian seems well to carry out his threat.
Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I coordinate and deal
with the Turk, I have asked Mario to disband the army in Tuscany, and I
will move Venice back to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and
carry out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in the Gulf
of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or the Austro-Italian
forces as long as you keep the fleet in the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to
work on the Turk.
With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort into stopping
the behemoth that he has become. He is guaranteed at least one build this
coming year.
I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
thanks
Andy
Message from France to Austria and Italy
Andy, Mario,
> Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied
> Moscow again he would help attack him full out until he
> was dead. Well...Turkey is in Moscow, and the Russian
> seems well to carry out his threat.
Did he say so? If yes why was he not among the addressees?
> Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I
> coordinate and deal with the Turk, I have asked Mario to
> disband the army in Tuscany, and I will move Venice back
> to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and carry
> out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in
> the Gulf of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or
> the Austro-Italian forces as long as you keep the fleet in
> the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to work on the Turk.
For many seasons I have been trying to show Mario via moves
and my talk that I am no threat to him, but rather I provide
help which I indeed did (on one particular occasion at
Andy's expense). My latest (almost fatal) act was an army
build in Paris at his demand, we all saw how Italy repaid
this.
I have been thinking how much farther I can go with making
one-sided commitments and frankly, I see less and less
justification for doing so. But, I do sense that this is an
opportunity: not in Andy's sense but for the very fact that
we might fix a three-way agreement which is a nice
guarantee.
I will not go as far as promising precise orders and moves
on my part, I simply cannot afford it after two seasons of
defense against a 5-power alliance. But, if that is good
enough, I will promise that I will not attack Italy in any
sense and that my moves will be such that this is obvious.
I will also promise that I will not tip off the Turk. One
further thing I want is that Italy stops working with
Germany against me.
> With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort
> into stopping the behemoth that he has become. He is
> guaranteed at least one build this coming year.
>
> I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
>
> Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
It is certainly a good starting point, and I am certainly
happy to do real diplomacy after some silence on the
incoming telephone lines.
Looking forward to your comments,
Tamas
Message from Austria to France and Italy
Tamas, Mario
>
>
> > Russia stated publically that if Turkey EVER occupied
> > Moscow again he would help attack him full out until he
> > was dead. Well...Turkey is in Moscow, and the Russian
> > seems well to carry out his threat.
>
> Did he say so? If yes why was he not among the addressees?
Becuase in my experience if you are willing to broadcast that threat to
the entire game, you mean it.
I have gone to him for reassurances on it
> > Tamas, what I am asking is that you let Mario and I
> > coordinate and deal with the Turk, I have asked Mario to
> > disband the army in Tuscany, and I will move Venice back
> > to Trieste, what I need from you is to promise and carry
> > out orders that put Marsaille in Spain, and Western Med in
> > the Gulf of Lyon, You have not threat from the English or
> > the Austro-Italian forces as long as you keep the fleet in
> > the Mid Atlantic, and allow us to work on the Turk.
>
> For many seasons I have been trying to show Mario via moves
> and my talk that I am no threat to him, but rather I provide
> help which I indeed did (on one particular occasion at
> Andy's expense). My latest (almost fatal) act was an army
> build in Paris at his demand, we all saw how Italy repaid
> this.
>
We have all been decieving the other fro some time now. I think we can get
past this.
> I have been thinking how much farther I can go with making
> one-sided commitments and frankly, I see less and less
> justification for doing so. But, I do sense that this is an
> opportunity: not in Andy's sense but for the very fact that
> we might fix a three-way agreement which is a nice
> guarantee.
I agree.
> I will not go as far as promising precise orders and moves
> on my part, I simply cannot afford it after two seasons of
> defense against a 5-power alliance.
I think that I showed you last turn that I dont want to fight you.
I think you can also describe Mario's moves to be defensive in nature.
We both feel a bit of a squeeze right now, and I am trying to make it
possible for he and I to deal with the Turk....
Im pretty sure I can get the Russian on board, I am awaiting an answer to
the note I sent him.
But, if that is good
> enough, I will promise that I will not attack Italy in any
> sense and that my moves will be such that this is obvious.
> I will also promise that I will not tip off the Turk. One
> further thing I want is that Italy stops working with
> Germany against me.
I know I can agree to this, and I wont speak for Mario, but in my eyes it
seems very reasonable.
> > With those guarantees from you we can put our full effort
> > into stopping the behemoth that he has become. He is
> > guaranteed at least one build this coming year.
> >
> > I believe that this is quite a fair offer for you.
> >
> > Is this acceptable to you Tamas??
>
> It is certainly a good starting point, and I am certainly
> happy to do real diplomacy after some silence on the
> incoming telephone lines.
As am I.
Be well
Andy
Message from France to Germany
Erik,
This thing does not seem to end, does it?
> If you have a better suggestion for it, though, I'm all
> ears.
My suggestion was there a year ago. If you had followed it
as you had promised you would, then you would now have Edi,
Kie, Ber and Holland too if you had insisted (to remind you:
I only took it so that we can build for it). Unfortunately
this is history, but I am really curious to see in the end
what made you abandon this clearly good plan of us.
At the same time I must notice that already a few times in
this game we showed excellence in overcoming our
difficulties and on each of these occasion both of us
benefited greatly. (And it is also true that we never
gained from screwing it up for the other). I hope that you
agree that another such action is in order.
I have already incorporated this hope in the past season's
orders. While most of my moves were concentrating on
defense, there were a few ways to do that and I did reject
the very tempting Bur S Bel-Ruh as well as Bel S Bur-Ruh,
Mar-Bur on the basis that it would not have left much room
for honest talk.
My suggestion is still the same and is quite playable. If
you want to make sure that you are in the draw, then you
have to secure the north for yourself. I want you to rule
Scandinavia and at the same time let me concentrate on the
south where my main interest lies. It is just too
frustrating that I have to keep three of my fleets in the
atlantic region because you keep knocking on the door
instead of both of us doing our own business.
As for concrete matters, I want to exchange Lon for Edi,
that way the line is most clearly defined between us. Of
course, I hope that you retake Ber and there be peace along
our border instead of opposing units.
If you are interested in talking about any of these, I am
all ears.
Tamas
Message from France to Turkey
Dear Sultan,
I am really disappointed. I am trying to find an
explanation for your strategy but naively it seems that you
do all in your power to make the 2WD impossible and turn it
into a larger draw.
Look, you keep telling me that my size frightens you and I
understand it but it more and more looks like a game you are
playing on me. Now you have had three or more fleets on ION
for many many years, could have taken all the Italian
centers by now and for some strange reason your fleets keep
holding instead. I know that you would now say that I am
not fighting Italy hard enough. But let's get this clear:
we are talking about _your_ centers and it is somewhat
strange the you want me to get them for you. I am taking
the beating for F WES from Italy for many seasons, and
making a fool out of myself. If you want the 2WD then you
should control the eastern med and take the Italian
centers.
EAS S Nap-ION instead of _at least_ EAS-ION ???? Brrr.
I now took Edi and believe me, I am not happy at all, it was
part of my defensive plan, did not mean to take it and you
will now say that we are getting unbalanced. I have no
options, the whole board is attacking me, I had to move
aggressively. Plenty of opportunity which you miss while 5
nations fight against myself. Instead, you are holding with
four fleets in the south.
I suggest the following. You tell me frankly what you want
and we revisit our joint plans to see how to accomplish
that. I hope that you will give up on your holding plan,
otherwise I pull back to my stalemate line (Por S Spa, Gas S
Mar, ENG S MAO), Italy knows that he cannot do me any damage
and will get a free hand to join Austria if he wants. One
thing is sure, I will not set draw as long as more than 3
players are on the board and in particular I will not set
draw as long as both Turkey and Italy are alive.
Looking forward to what you say,
Tamas
Message from France to Russia
Nicky,
From your last message I (correctly) assumed that you
eventually rejected the opportunity of taking Edi. This is
why I ignored my original offer and took it myself. I hope
that you understand: I did not need the center but
eliminating the completely silent power was all too
important for me.
In hindsight, I believe that your decision of abandoning
both Edi and Swe was wrong because you clearly are in need
of A StP now. The guessing game with Warsaw is too
frightening.
Do you have a plan? As I have told you for a long time, I
am happy to help you grow back to a healthy size but the
only way I see this is possible is if you pick up German
centers. You must realize that the chances of sniffing and
holding a French center are quite low, let alone building
for it after being stretched so far. Scandinavia (Den, Swe)
are much more viable options because the forces which take
these centers are naturally connected to the ones which
defend your home.
When I debated Austria's assessment in my broadcast and
argued that you have a chance in the draw, I was pretty
serious because indeed you did have a good chance to replace
Germany, but only if you build your own units instead of
suporting his. But we both know too well that this chance
is rapidly fading and the longer you postpone this
inevitable decision, the more unlikely it is that you have
any chance of surviving in this game.
I naturally would be very happy to hear your point of view
on this state of affairs.
Tamas
Message from France to Austria
Andy,
I appreciate your effort of straightening out things. At
the same time I want to make the comment that I would
probably make the observers astonished if I trusted you.
You yourself had said previously that
/---------------------------------------------
| > And I have stabbed Turkey so many times, in so many games
| > that I know he is dying to cut my heart out.
| >
| > the Russian is very wary of me, I just finished a game
| > with him where I showed myself to be a very dangerous
| > player.
| >
| > And the Turk has seen me expand exponentially in the past.
\---------------------------------------------
and I can do nothing but join those who fear your
partnership because by now you have been around for enough
time and I have been hit by the force of your lies.
At the same time you did make the good impression of a
player who appreciates his country's interest first and
foremost and that is something I rate very high, not shared
by many players unfortunately as examples in this game show
too.
Why am I saying this? Because I want to make sure that you
feel uncomfortable if trying to set a trap for me and I also
want you to know that although I completely agree with your
opinion on the Sultan's playing style, I will give all
assistance needed (diplomatic, advice, moves) for the Sultan
if AI goes around some funny business. I do guess that the
there is no need to say this and I do not expect that
happening at all but my experience is that it does more good
than bad to be aware of consequences of errors, mistakes.
And mainly I say this because I am not sure what your plan
really is. You need units to fight Turkey even with Italian
help and that may be hard. A Ber might help but it might be
disbanded next year. And where will your centers come from,
in particular a fourth fleet?
If Italy disbands A Tus then clearly there are two ways to
play from there. One is the tactics you outlined to IF.
But I must notice that another excellent plan is for Austria
to grab Rom and invite France back to the Med a season later
(which is what F WES-LYO suggests). Quite playable because
you get the boot, the centers you need against Turkey and it
hardly makes a difference for you whether the Turkish fleets
are stoped where they are or on ION by France. And a
two-center Italy cannot even throw anything to Turkey in
revenge.
I cannot tell which one is your plan and I am pretty sure
you will not tell me, which is allright with me. If we
agree along the lines proposed, I will follow through as I
had said but I am quite curious what way it will turn out.
There is another option for you to gain centers, one which I
find unlikely that you want to take, which is Tyr-Mun and
the like. If you do think about these directions, I
strongly advise that you coordinate with me because it would
be somewhat unfortunate to step on each other's toe.
Sorry for the long rubbish.
Tamas
Message from Russia to France
Tamas,
Quickly as the family is getting ready to go out. I toyed with Swe Support
Nth-Den last season, and even thought about logging back in and ordering
it before the deadline, but I fell asleep. With Germany supporting himself
to Denmark instead of just following IA Kiel if Kiel-Hol succeeded that
forces Italy to disband and with your build that's not good for the "Stop
France" campaign. When combined with Turkey's move to Moscow,
I'm very close to a "support the French Solo to punish the fools" attitude,
right now. I really wonder what part of, "If Turkey moves back to Mos,
I'll support the French Solo.", Turkey didn't understand?
> Do you have a plan?
Several, but I have no clear idea which one I'll choose at this point. I
do understand your perspective, and it has a certain validity, but I don't
feel that I can eliminate German Armies if I can't afford to move forward
to fill in for them and the Turkish Army adjacent to my Home Centers
prevents that.
Nicky.
Message from France to Russia
Nikcy,
> I toyed with Swe Support Nth-Den last season,
Which indeed would have been a winner even for the
stop-France thingy.
> With Germany supporting himself to Denmark instead of just
> following IA Kiel if Kiel-Hol succeeded that forces Italy
> to disband and with your build that's not good for the
> "Stop France" campaign.
Germany wanted Kie-Hol to fail. He wanted to show himself
loyal to the stop France alliance but at the same time
thought that his bid for Scandinavia - given Turkish A Mos -
has much better chances with my fleet Hol than the Italian
army which has already proven to be able to do funny things.
What he failed to take into account is that I will risk
Lvp-Edi. He counted on me not building and thought that IA
all against me along with the annoying English F NAO indeed
would tie my fleets down while he goes back to Swe and Nor
(with the promised Turkish help).
> Several, but I have no clear idea which one I'll choose at
> this point. I do understand your perspective, and it has
> a certain validity, but I don't feel that I can eliminate
> German Armies if I can't afford to move forward to fill in
> for them and the Turkish Army adjacent to my Home Centers
> prevents that.
Ok, I wait for you thinking it over, you do not have a build
so you have some time. I do not get your point about what
you can and cannot afford. It is most clear that your
country needs a miracle. I am not saying that what I
suggest has a high chance of guaranteeing your survival but
I am not sure if there are any viable alternatives.
I will not talk you into supporting the French solo,
although it has some merit because a more direct solo threat
is what creates opportunities for minor powers to survive.
Recently I was in a game where a one center Austria survived
in Warsaw thanks to a 17-center Italy.
On the other hand I am sure that you notice that after
Austria has quit, Germany is deliberately screwing up
things, and Italy cannot move a further step towards me
(because of Turkey and the disappearance of F NAO), it would
be quite foolish to hammer me along the lines of "the good
cause". I will make an offer for you now which I am sure
you will find credible. I of course am fighting for the
solo just like most of us do. I do think that my chances
are better than the others' on the board. I will attack you
if at any point I find that my chances to win come from
taking dots from you. But, if you stay allied with me, then
I will give all assistance needed to make sure that _if_ the
game ends in a draw then it will include you.
Tamas
Message from France to France
Observers,
I was extremely lucky this season. I correctly guessed that
Russia is probably too tired to mislead me on their plan.
NTH-Edi, Kie S Ruh-Hol, Mun-Ber would have been quite
devastating for me.
Clearly by far the biggest gain for me this year is the
disband of F NAO. Italy cannot do any damage to me and
freed from the English fleet in the backyard I have many
options to negotiate.
What I need now is Turkish success against Italy and
Austrian success against Turkey. Timing is very important,
the Turkish success should come first. I very much hope
that Turkey takes ION finally this season. I think that the
Austrian suggestion of WES-LYO has some merit, if I can stay
on MAO then the Turkish attack opens a clear path to line up
on LYO-WES-NAF soon. SPA-WES-NAF is already a stalemate
line (Mar might need support though). Thus even if the
southern push does not work, I will have 5 units to work
with on the north as long as Pie is empty.
I made the "standard" offer to Russia. I was a little bit
lying about the game I quoted where Austria survived. He
_almost_ survived but Italy grabbed the solo eventually.
And with some luck this might be the case. One distinct
possibility is that if I make Russia attack any German
center then Germany might also help me out of spite against
the Tzar.
The south is a big question. Austria's proposal is
credible, I believe and I do not think he ever considered
the path I outlined in my reply (him stabbing Italy on the
way). Chances are that he will laugh at it but one never
knows...
In general, I am quite pleased. The west sorted out before
the east and that might be decisive. Even if I lose
something in the near future, the complexity of the
battlefield in the IAT region will surely open up a few
opportunities in the future. Of course the FT 2WD bid is
still in the cards but if the FT push is succesful then I am
confident that I can steal the solo from the sultan. It is
more likely that he will abandon it because I am sure many
on the board explain him this very carefully.
Tamas
Message from France to Italy
Dear Mario,
I would appreciate your comments to Austria's proposal. I
will not repeat my honest explanation of why I did what I
did and how I think it was pro-Italian rather than
aggressive because you are surely bored of it now.
I have to compliment on the arrangement of the anti-French
campaign at the same time, I only saved my ass by incredible
luck and guesswork. Of course it is hard to keep that many
powers together and the fact that Germany wanted Kie-Hol to
fail did not help a lot but I still could have suffered big
if I had guessed wrong.
The fortunate annihilation of F NAO makes my defense pretty
good all over therefore I surely can afford to watch the
spectacular AI against T keeping only a very limited force
in the south. The only weak point I see is that the list of
major Austrian lies in this game has grown to an incredible
size. If you tell me that you trust his suggestion and you
are interested in stopping your anti-French campaign then I
am more than ready to continue our partnership.
Tamas
Message from Austria to France
> I appreciate your effort of straightening out things. At
> the same time I want to make the comment that I would
> probably make the observers astonished if I trusted you.
> You yourself had said previously that
>
> /---------------------------------------------
> | > And I have stabbed Turkey so many times, in so many games
> | > that I know he is dying to cut my heart out.
> | >
> | > the Russian is very wary of me, I just finished a game
> | > with him where I showed myself to be a very dangerous
> | > player.
> | >
> | > And the Turk has seen me expand exponentially in the past.
> \---------------------------------------------
Yes....I think they would be
> and I can do nothing but join those who fear your
> partnership because by now you have been around for enough
> time and I have been hit by the force of your lies.
I dont understand. I havent been lying about you....who has said that.
> At the same time you did make the good impression of a
> player who appreciates his country's interest first and
> foremost and that is something I rate very high, not shared
> by many players unfortunately as examples in this game show
> too.
I would tend to agree with that sentiment.
> Why am I saying this? Because I want to make sure that you
> feel uncomfortable if trying to set a trap for me and I also
> want you to know that although I completely agree with your
> opinion on the Sultan's playing style, I will give all
> assistance needed (diplomatic, advice, moves) for the Sultan
> if AI goes around some funny business.
I understand what you are saying completely. I cannot REALLY affect you,
and I will do my best to convince the Italian to stay on the path as well.
I do guess that the
> there is no need to say this and I do not expect that
> happening at all but my experience is that it does more good
> than bad to be aware of consequences of errors, mistakes.
No need whatsoever.
I am a firm believer in punishing poor play.
> And mainly I say this because I am not sure what your plan
> really is. You need units to fight Turkey even with Italian
> help and that may be hard. A Ber might help but it might be
> disbanded next year. And where will your centers come from,
> in particular a fourth fleet?
Well....assuming the Russian stands by his word, and from my experience in
the past with him, he doesnt make public threats idley.
Turkey can be dealt with as long as you arent threatening our centers.
> If Italy disbands A Tus then clearly there are two ways to
> play from there. One is the tactics you outlined to IF.
Yes.
> But I must notice that another excellent plan is for Austria
> to grab Rom and invite France back to the Med a season later
> (which is what F WES-LYO suggests). Quite playable because
> you get the boot, the centers you need against Turkey and it
> hardly makes a difference for you whether the Turkish fleets
> are stoped where they are or on ION by France. And a
> two-center Italy cannot even throw anything to Turkey in
> revenge.
Well...I cant do that in the short term. I just dont have the fleets.
And the boot is niegh unto impossible to protect without a few fleets.
I suggested going to LYO so that you had option on how you felt
comfortable protecting Marsaille. I am not going to get anywhere near it.
> I cannot tell which one is your plan and I am pretty sure
> you will not tell me, which is allright with me. If we
> agree along the lines proposed, I will follow through as I
> had said but I am quite curious what way it will turn out.
As am I.
> There is another option for you to gain centers, one which I
> find unlikely that you want to take, which is Tyr-Mun and
> the like. If you do think about these directions, I
> strongly advise that you coordinate with me because it would
> be somewhat unfortunate to step on each other's toe.
Not with the Turk putting the full court press on me.
> Sorry for the long rubbish.
Not long....
take care
Andy
Message from Turkey to France
Let's review something. If you had tapped Tunis last turn, I would
have already been in the Ionian. I was not in a position of strength
with the Russian this turn and had to either trust him or potentially
piss him off by moving/bouncing in Mos. Austria I am already
attacking.
Therefore given your wishy-washy stuff on Italy, I couldn't afford to
piss him off this turn too.
Message from Italy to France
Tamas,
> campaign at the same time, I only saved my ass by incredible
> luck and guesswork. Of course it is hard to keep that many
> powers together and the fact that Germany wanted Kie-Hol to
> fail did not help a lot but I still could have suffered big
> if I had guessed wrong.
Well, I think you played it excellently. The record will show that the
moves I preferred would have cost you Holland, and left IGR (should that
continue to exist) in much better position. But, whatever...
> major Austrian lies in this game has grown to an incredible
> size. If you tell me that you trust his suggestion and you
> are interested in stopping your anti-French campaign then I
> am more than ready to continue our partnership.
Oh this concerns me quite a bit. At this point though what can I do? I
feel quite strongly that I can not be a viable force in this game while
you and Turkey are alive. I am fine with it being you (i.e. Turkey being
eliminated). I assume you are as well? :-)
Certainly myself and somebody (Russia? Germany?) will need to keep an eye
on Austria.
And needless to say I will cease my anti-F efforts in the north.
England: REMOVE Fleet North Atlantic Ocean (*no order*)
France: BUILD Fleet Brest
Germany: WAIVE
Italy: REMOVE Army Berlin
Centers
Austria: 5
France: 9
Germany: 5
Italy: 4
Russia: 3
Turkey: 8
|