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Message from France to Austria and Italy
Sorry guys, this was misaddressed - was meant to AI instead
of AT
> Message from tamas.hauer@cern.ch as France to Austria and Turkey in
> 'comments':
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Receiving the complaints through formal and informal
> channels, I would like to make a remark.
>
> I did tell you guys (after telling Italy many times) that I
> had been dissatisfied with Mario's reaction to my actions
> and that the present position does not leave much room for
> me making firm promises.
>
> Andy put forward an offer which I accepted _as is_,
> basically giving you guys a blank cheque against the Sultan.
> I think that it is just natural that after Mario violates
> this agreement - again (intentionally or just not paying
> attention) without further explanation - I did not feel
> bound to it either. Granted, the Italian moves were OK, but
> there had to be a point where I stop making fool of myself
> (in Constantinople as well as in Rome).
>
> Tamas
Message from Italy to Austria and France
I'm confused. Maybe I just have my head on wrong, but I'm not sure what
agreement I violated and how I violated it.
My remembering was that this agreement to attack Turkey mentioned below
was before last turn. I moved in agreement. Meantime I was laid into on
both sides.
Am I mis-remembering something?
> > Dear Friends,
> >
> > Receiving the complaints through formal and informal
> > channels, I would like to make a remark.
> >
> > I did tell you guys (after telling Italy many times) that I
> > had been dissatisfied with Mario's reaction to my actions
> > and that the present position does not leave much room for
> > me making firm promises.
> >
> > Andy put forward an offer which I accepted _as is_,
> > basically giving you guys a blank cheque against the Sultan.
> > I think that it is just natural that after Mario violates
> > this agreement - again (intentionally or just not paying
> > attention) without further explanation - I did not feel
> > bound to it either. Granted, the Italian moves were OK, but
> > there had to be a point where I stop making fool of myself
> > (in Constantinople as well as in Rome).
> >
> > Tamas
>
Message from Italy to Austria
I think it's got to be Turkey that we send our centers to. You want to
punish Russia, I want to punish France. It seems that the best way to do
both of these is to let Turkey become a solo threat...
I also see that as about the only way either of us are going to survive...
Message from Italy to Turkey
I'm a bit surprised that I hadn't heard back from you about bidding for my
units. Other countries have already started negotiating, and I'd have
thought that you'd be first in line to try and get some of my fleets
attacking France.
I mean let's face it. I can't fight both you and France. You're both
twice my size. So I have to choose one of you to favor. Want it to be
you?
Message from Italy to Russia
What's going on in this game? See any way I can survive? It's looking
grim...
Message from France to Austria and Italy
> I'm confused. Maybe I just have my head on wrong, but I'm
> not sure what agreement I violated and how I violated it.
>
> My remembering was that this agreement to attack Turkey
> mentioned below was before last turn. I moved in
> agreement. Meantime I was laid into on both sides.
>
> Am I mis-remembering something?
Austria's original proposal included the disband of A Tus.
That was what we all accepted, no further suggestion was put
forward. I actually jumped on it exactly because of that: A
Gas/F Lyo indeed would have been exactly what I needed for
defense while the rest could have been sent to the north.
In any case, I have to admit that seeing the adjustments
made me quite upset (see my elaboration on my having done
whatever Mario asks - without any use), I got somewhat tired
of making a fool of myself and gave up on further efforts to
sort this problem out before the moves. Sorry for this
part.
Tamas
Message from Turkey to Italy
>I'm a bit surprised that I hadn't heard back from you about bidding for my
>units. Other countries have already started negotiating, and I'd have
>thought that you'd be first in line to try and get some of my fleets
>attacking France.
oh, i thought you were joking.
>
>I mean let's face it. I can't fight both you and France. You're both
>twice my size. So I have to choose one of you to favor. Want it to be
>you?
sure, what do i have to do? Of course France finally talked me into
the IONIAN with a promise of Tunis, and now is reneging on that...so
I will work with you vs. France. In fact, I have no immediate plans
for Italy, so I think we should be able to work something out. I
have to kill Austria and that could take a couple of years.
What did you have in mind?
how about letting me into Tys so i can attack France?I would love that.
I'll get France to think he is convoying my Bul army to Tunis (he
said he would allow that.), then you move tys-lyo, I move ion-tys,
you re-take Ion.
Message from Italy to France
Hmm you're right. Ironically enough, the reason I kept A Tus was so that
I could have some say in ever retaking Venice, not with any mmalice
towards you.
But oh well, the die is probably cast now...
Message from Italy to Turkey
> What did you have in mind?
>
> how about letting me into Tys so i can attack France?I would love that.
>
> I'll get France to think he is convoying my Bul army to Tunis (he
> said he would allow that.), then you move tys-lyo, I move ion-tys,
> you re-take Ion.
>
Well, that's one option.
I don't particularly need to retake the Ionian though. You can guarantee
to keep Serbia with Gal-Bud, Gre-Alb (which cuts at least one support for
Austria, and Bul S Ser (uncuttable support). Sev-Rum to guarantee Rum.
You could move Ion-Adr which would pretty much hose Austria next year.
But convincing France to support Bul-Tun is probably a good idea.
Message from France to Italy
Mario,
> Hmm you're right. Ironically enough, the reason I kept A Tus was so
> that I could have some say in ever retaking Venice, not with any mmalice
> towards you.
I can see that and if I had given it a deep thought, I probably would have
come to that conclusion. Unfortunately, as I said, emotion made a bigger
impact on my orders than logical thinking.
> But oh well, the die is probably cast now...
I dunno. I have never had any interest in Italian centers and still do
not. Securing the west med against you and the Turk has been my main
concern and still is. The French solo is out of question thanks to the
German suicide. Apart from that, I really do not care _that much_ (see
below) who I share the draw with.
I want Tunis. I probably cannot get it soon but I really fancy the
stalemate line Mar-Lyo-Wes-Tun which can be held with five units.
Meanwhile I expect Austria making some headache for the Turk and if Russia
joins him then I can see no reason why you cannot prosper on the eastern
med on the long run. If Tunis falls but you take Venice then you will not
have to disband because Germany does not seem too keen on retaking Ber.
And frankly, given the very unattractive Turkish style, I would be very
happy to have you in whatever draw we end with.
Tamas
p.s. I am close to my first ever nopress solo !!!! :-)
Message from Italy to France
I had quite a tough decision in what unit to remove. Perhaps I chose
wrongly. My real question wwas what was A Ber going to do, and there were
3 options, none of whcih were good.
> I want Tunis. I probably cannot get it soon but I really fancy the
> stalemate line Mar-Lyo-Wes-Tun which can be held with five units.
Well, if you're looking for 5 unit stalemate lines, Mar,Spa S Lyo, Naf S
Wes is one that doesn't include Tunis...
> Meanwhile I expect Austria making some headache for the Turk and if Russia
> joins him then I can see no reason why you cannot prosper on the eastern
> med on the long run. If Tunis falls but you take Venice then you will not
> have to disband because Germany does not seem too keen on retaking Ber.
> And frankly, given the very unattractive Turkish style, I would be very
> happy to have you in whatever draw we end with.
Hey me too...
Message from France to Italy
Mario,
> Well, if you're looking for 5 unit stalemate lines, Mar,Spa S Lyo, Naf S
> Wes is one that doesn't include Tunis...
I did not say I am looking for _a_ stalemate line for 5 units :-). Tunis
is the center which feeds one of the units and that line has way more
diplomatic options... but of course I understand Rome's concern. Although
once we are talking about chosing between _these_ two lines, it should not
make much difference for _you_: if Tunis is yours then you have to defend
it which is at best zero net result, while my F Tun can actually support
your actions on ION without you being nervous when that supporting unit is
captured.
Yeah, I know I am saying nasty things but it's kind of hard to jump back
and forth.
Tamas
Message from Austria to France and Italy
>
> I'm confused. Maybe I just have my head on wrong, but I'm not sure what
> agreement I violated and how I violated it.
>
In the eyes of the French you violated our agreement by not disbanding
Tuscany.
I disagree with him.
> My remembering was that this agreement to attack Turkey mentioned below
> was before last turn. I moved in agreement. Meantime I was laid into on
> both sides.
>
> Am I mis-remembering something?
No.
Message from Austria to Italy
> I think it's got to be Turkey that we send our centers to. You want to
> punish Russia, I want to punish France. It seems that the best way to do
> both of these is to let Turkey become a solo threat...
>
> I also see that as about the only way either of us are going to survive...
I couldnt agree with you more.
I am going to craft a letter to the Turk, and see if he will just sit
behind us and position while we move on our respective targets.
I might want to help with France.
I will get the letter out later today.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Italy
>
> >
>> I'll get France to think he is convoying my Bul army to Tunis (he
>> said he would allow that.), then you move tys-lyo, I move ion-tys,
>> you re-take Ion.
>>
>
>Well, that's one option.
>
>I don't particularly need to retake the Ionian though. You can guarantee
>to keep Serbia with Gal-Bud, Gre-Alb (which cuts at least one support for
>Austria, and Bul S Ser (uncuttable support). Sev-Rum to guarantee Rum.
That is exactly what I am going to do. You see though that that uses
up all my armies..so now I have 3 fleets to do stuff with.
>
>You could move Ion-Adr which would pretty much hose Austria next year.
Yes, that is true..however, getting one of my fleets past Italy and
into play against France would be particiularly attractive.
But I can't do that without your help...so if you don't want Ion-Tys,
I'll either sit there or attack Austria with it. ion-alb with support
could kill Austria and not allow him to choose what he can pull off
the board.
And I will do my part to convince France to support Bul-Tun..but
please do your part to make sure that France doesn't take tunis.
turkey
Message from Turkey to France, Italy, and Russia
France,
everything is off for this year in the Med.
I will order Ion s Tun (so you don't take it)
and I will support Ion so it doesn't get bounced by Italy (or if it
does it goes to Nap)
since everyone is fwd'ing everything let's just talk clearly as one group.
As far as all your other suggestions, no dice...they leave me too wide open.
I am taking and keeping Serbia this turn.
Russia gets Moscow.
Italy can figure out what Italy wants to do re: Venice/Berlin.
We'll talk next year when things are more clear.
gotta go, no more press to anyone from me
turkey
Message from Italy to France, Russia, and Turkey
Huh? Where did this come from?
On Tue, 22 Apr 2003, USTX Diplomacy Judge
wrote:
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from albrigh@mail.med.upenn.edu as Turkey to France, Italy and Russia
> in 'comments':
>
>
> France,
> everything is off for this year in the Med.
>
> I will order Ion s Tun (so you don't take it)
> and I will support Ion so it doesn't get bounced by Italy (or if it
> does it goes to Nap)
>
> since everyone is fwd'ing everything let's just talk clearly as one group.
>
> As far as all your other suggestions, no dice...they leave me too wide open.
>
> I am taking and keeping Serbia this turn.
>
> Russia gets Moscow.
>
> Italy can figure out what Italy wants to do re: Venice/Berlin.
>
> We'll talk next year when things are more clear.
>
> gotta go, no more press to anyone from me
>
> turkey
>
Message from France to France, Italy, and Turkey
> Huh? Where did this come from?
ROTFL!!!
I have no idea but now I am _really_ curious about where the
crack which some people seem to get hold of is coming from.
Pretty good quality!
> since everyone is fwd'ing everything let's just talk
> clearly as one group.
First: I never forward _any_ press.
Second: I have not been forwarded _anything_ from the
addressees recently.
I signed up for Diplomacy and not stand-up comedy, but in
the given case I find it quite insulting that we leave
Austria and Germany out of the enjoyment. Certainly if you
want to go public then they should be included!
I request that Turkey sends a copy to Austria too.
Tamas
Message from France to Italy
Mario,
Ok, this is the point where I am really without a clue as to
what to do. This game is full of surprises but this recent
one is somewhat disturbing as it seems to require
treatment.
Tamas
Message from Italy to France
My guess is that he meant that for another game he is playing in.
Unless Russia forwarded soemthing. Or you did. Because I didn't
Message from France to Italy
> My guess is that he meant that for another game he is
> playing in. Unless Russia forwarded soemthing. Or you
> did. Because I didn't
I _never_ forward any press.
But,
I _do_ sometimes lie.
One possible explanation (and the only one I can think of)
is the following. I told him recently that X knows about
our plan (FT on Tunis) and I asked him if he was the one who
fed X with the confidential info. (I made this up.)
Apparently I guessed right :-) but I did not consider the
possibility of _these_ consequences.
Tamas
Message from Observer to all
>>for the sake of the observers, should
the best one(s) win!<<
You're too good to us, Tamas.
Message from France to all
> Broadcast message from dmshewchuk@hotmail.com as Observer in 'comments':
>
>
> >>for the sake of the observers, should
> the best one(s) win!<<
>
> You're too good to us, Tamas.
Will *someone*, *finally*, *please*, tell me where I can get
hold of this crack????
Message from France to Italy
Mario,
> Italian units, up for highest bid. Make all inquiries at
> the Naples Arena (while that's still Italian!)
As this game is getting out of control (Germany committing
suicide in the privacy of his own office, Austria using more
and more swear words, Turkey retreating to a health care
unit and now England broadcasting pieces of my private
press) I do have a suggestion.
I want only sane players be included in the end result
(possible exception: me). I will make my bid now which is
probably the first proposal of this game which I make
without second thoughts.
Tunis stays Italian. You move Tys-Nap and I move Wes-Tys.
You do not take Venice _this year_. Next year you are
supported to the ION and do whatever you want with the Turk,
with or without Austria, I do not care.
If you do not screw it up again then I move Naf-Mao
preferably in the spring. F TYS stays until you take Ven
(but not this year, otherwise no deal).
I mean it. What say you?
Tamas
Message from Italy to France
Certainly something to think about. I have maintained for awhile and
continue to maintain that I have no chance at this game if both you and
Turkey are in it.
I'd love to take out turkey. But I don't know that we can. Still your
offer beats me suiciding in Turkey's (or your) favor...
Message to all
>Broadcast message from tamas.hauer@cern.ch as France in 'comments':
>
>
>> Broadcast message from dmshewchuk@hotmail.com as Observer in 'comments':
>>
>>
>> >>for the sake of the observers, should
>> the best one(s) win!<<
>>
>> You're too good to us, Tamas.
>
>Will *someone*, *finally*, *please*, tell me where I can get
>hold of this crack????
You're mom's house?
Thanks,
-Observer #2
Message from France to all
> >Will *someone*, *finally*, *please*, tell me where I can get
> >hold of this crack????
>
> You're mom's house?
Was this really necessary? :-(
Message from Russia to Italy
Mario,
> What's going on in this game? See any way I can survive? It's
> looking grim...
I hesitate to predict what the Turk will do, but it seems unlikely
that we'll both survive. Tamas is clearly looking to Solo, and
he's hoping to use an FT two-way as the carrot to hide his Solo
stick. I'm not at all sure what motivates the Turk, so it's difficult
for me to say how tempting he finds that offer, or whether he
sees the hidden threat. The Tun-TyS-Nap line always gives
you a chance, though.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to France, Italy, and Turkey
> Message from Italy to France, Russia and Turkey in 'comments':
>
> Huh? Where did this come from?
> > Message from Turkey to France, Italy and Russia in 'comments':
> >
> > France,
> > everything is off for this year in the Med.
> >
> > since everyone is fwd'ing everything let's just talk clearly as one
group.
Sorta make you wonder who is forwarding "everything" and what that
"everything" is, doesn't it, Mario? I've hardly had time to send or reply
to Press before today, so I haven't forwarded anything, or even discussed
anything but local tactics with anyone.
Nicky.
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
Andrew,
I have heard a rumor that you are not particurally available this week,
but I would hope that you would take the time to listen to what Italy and
I have to offer you.
Both of us, are tired of listening to the French prattle on at us about
how we need to attack each other and attack you, and basically twist our
words at every chance.
We would like to help you solo. I will move northeast and north, and maybe
northwest alittle bit and Italy will move west and northwest.
All we ask is that you give us time to push back your opponents; France,
Germany and Russia before you start taking our dots.
For instance you could convoy and army to Apulia, and move out of
Serbia...to say Rum. And let us move away from you and defend against
others...
I will move
TYR s VIE - BOH
TRI - VIE
ALB - TRI
VIE - BOH
BUD - GAL
Italy moves
TUS - PIE
APU - NAP
TUN h
TYS s TUN
You move
GAL - UKR
SEV - MOS
SER - RUM
BUL - APU
AEG and ION convoy BUL
EAS and GRE support ION
It creates space between our borders in an immediate sense, but if we act
up and dont follow the plan, you can easily move in and take our dots.
Does this work for you??
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
> Andrew,
>
> I have heard a rumor that you are not particurally available this week,
> but I would hope that you would take the time to listen to what Italy and
> I have to offer you.
yes it is true. i am just checking my email right now and then may or may not
be able to check it again before the deadline.
However, I will definitely listen to what you have to say.
>
> Both of us, are tired of listening to the French prattle on at us about
> how we need to attack each other and attack you, and basically twist our
> words at every chance.
While this could of course be a huge gambit on your parts, I am willing to
bite. I am myself not working with the French and am currently in no hurry to
get any bigger.
Here are my conditions to try this:
a) I will do what you say if it setup so that it isn't much risk for me.
b) then I can wait and see what you guys are up to...and take it from there.
> All we ask is that you give us time to push back your opponents; France,
> Germany and Russia before you start taking our dots.
If you really are honest about your plans..I have no problem with this.
>
> For instance you could convoy and army to Apulia, and move out of
> Serbia...to say Rum. And let us move away from you and defend against
> others...
>
> I will move
>
> TYR s VIE - BOH
> TRI - VIE
> ALB - TRI
> VIE - BOH
> BUD - GAL
>
> Italy moves
>
> TUS - PIE
> APU - NAP
> TUN h
> TYS s TUN
>
> You move
>
> GAL - UKR
> SEV - MOS
> SER - RUM
> BUL - APU
> AEG and ION convoy BUL
> EAS and GRE support ION
These moves for me meet my criteria. It is a little bit of a chance because
Russia will be mad...but I think that I can smooth things over with some
explanation after the moves are over.
I was already going to pretty much order holds and supports as it was...so I am
willing to try this. I will order like you said and then hope you follow
through. Knowing your treacherous nature when push comes to shove, i will be
skeptical until I see the moves though.
While he hasn't really been in a position to hurt me with his lying, I am
having fun messing with the French...so if you do this, even just a little bit,
then it will be fun to hear him scream bloody murder.
Message from France to Italy and Russia
> Sorta make you wonder who is forwarding "everything" and
> what that "everything" is, doesn't it, Mario? I've hardly
> had time to send or reply to Press before today, so I
> haven't forwarded anything, or even discussed anything but
> local tactics with anyone.
I _never_ forward any press. Ever.
[[ Small exceptions are when pieces of press are so
entertaining that I cannot resist. Even then I cut out all
the informative part. ]]
Also it would be kindof hard for me to forward press among
RIT given that the cross-section of RF and IF press has been
negligible recently.
Tamas
Message from Turkey to Austria and Italy
soo...I got completley turned around about what day it is/was/going
to be. Orders are due tonight and i am back in town with a few days
to kill.
Are we all set?
Message from Austria to Italy and Turkey
>
> soo...I got completley turned around about what day it is/was/going
> to be. Orders are due tonight and i am back in town with a few days
> to kill.
>
> Are we all set?
My orders are in.
Message from France to Italy
Mario,
What's the verdict?
Tamas
Message from Italy to France
I went and re-read your proposal. Why do you not want me to take Venice
this year?
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
I'm all set.
Message from Italy to Turkey
Are you convoying to Apulia this turn?
Message from France to Italy
mario,
Because I do not want Austria to die.
Tamas
Message from Turkey to Italy
>Are you convoying to Apulia this turn?
here is what I have ordered, do you think it is good? You have as
much to lose if Austria is telling us a tall tale. (I was already not
attacking you..and if this is a doublecross Austria will benefit)
Turkey: Army Serbia -> Rumania.
Turkey: Army Galicia -> Ukraine.
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea CONVOY Army Bulgaria -> Apulia.
Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea CONVOY Army Bulgaria -> Apulia.
Turkey: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea.
Turkey: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea.
Turkey: Army Sevastopol -> Moscow.
Turkey: Army Bulgaria -> Aegean Sea -> Ionian Sea -> Apulia.
Message from Italy to Turkey
I think that looks about as good as anything else. As for Austria, I
have no idea what he will truly order - he only seems kind of peeved at
the Russian, so that would seem to indicate that he is being
straightforward...
I wonder if it would be worth it to convoy Bul-Tus instead of Apu?
Message from Turkey to Italy
>I think that looks about as good as anything else. As for Austria, I
>have no idea what he will truly order - he only seems kind of peeved at
>the Russian, so that would seem to indicate that he is being
>straightforward...
We'll see.
>
>I wonder if it would be worth it to convoy Bul-Tus instead of Apu?
but then I would worry that France would attack and take
Tunis...which neither of us want
Message from Italy to Austria
> Message from tamas.hauer@cern.ch as France to Italy in 'comments':
>
> mario,
>
> Because I do not want Austria to die.
Hmm me either. Since then it will be alone vs. Turkey. Though I'm
beginning to think more and more that any hopes we have of eliminating
Turkey are pipedreams...
I think that I have to reject your plan at least right now. Perhaps we
can re-open discussions next season.
Message from Italy to Turkey
Ah very true. Okay well I'm putting in orders now and have just told
France to go stick his plan (where I attack you and totally turn my back
on him)
Austria: Army Albania → Trieste
Austria: Army Budapest → Galicia
Austria: Army Trieste → Vienna
Austria: Army Tyrolia → Munich (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna → Bohemia
France: Army Belgium SUPPORT Army Ruhr → Holland
France: Fleet Brest → English Channel
France: Fleet Helgoland Bight → Denmark (*bounce*)
France: Army Marseilles → Burgundy
France: Fleet North Africa → Western Mediterranean
France: Army Ruhr → Holland
France: Fleet Wales → London
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Gulf of Lyon
France: Army Yorkshire SUPPORT Fleet Wales → London
Germany: Fleet Kiel → Denmark (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet London SUPPORT Russian Fleet North Sea (*void, destroyed*)
Germany: Army Munich → Kiel (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Apulia → Naples
Italy: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea
Italy: Army Tuscany → Piedmont
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tunis
Russia: Fleet Holland → Kiel (*bounce, destroyed*)
Russia: Fleet North Sea → Denmark (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw → Moscow (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea CONVOY Army Bulgaria → Apulia
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Aegean Sea → Ionian Sea → Apulia
Turkey: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea
Turkey: Army Galicia → Ukraine
Turkey: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea
Turkey: Fleet Ionian Sea CONVOY Army Bulgaria → Apulia
Turkey: Army Serbia → Rumania
Turkey: Army Sevastopol → Moscow (*bounce*)
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