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Italy: Fleet Tunis can retreat to North Africa or Western Mediterranean
Message from Italy to Austria and Turkey
Sigh... I kind of felt like this might be coming here. Both times that
you have stabbed me, you have suddenly gone silent, whereas every other
turn you are very active with your press. Not that there is/was much I
could do about it... But it might be something to consider as you move on
to future games.
I don't know - maybe I'm just super gullible or something - but I can't
understand why you would lie to me when there is nothing I can do about
it. This has happened to me several times lately, and I still don't get
it. I know that there is a place for lies in Diplomacy. But why bother
lying to me when there's nothing I can do about it? To prove you're the
l33t 5aX0r? Just tell me "Hey Italy we decided to eliminate you and call
it a 3-way. Good night".
What I also don't get is why you continually revile France in your press,
talk about how you hate how he has played, and what a jerk he is, and how
you wish he would just shut up, but then your moves constantly do exactly
what he wants! Hey - stab Italy. Let me take out Russia. Stab Italy
again, etc.
We can still advance against France. His hubris in continually waiving
his 3 builds will be his downfall. If we move now, we can guarantee
taking Mun or Mar next year.
Wes S Tun-Naf, Tys-Lyo, with Austria shuffling armies up into Sil (maybe
Pru too). We have 3 on Munich, and 2 on Mar. Spa's support of Mar can be
cut by F Wes, and Bur can only support either Mar or Mun.
Message from Italy to Austria
Well, if you were serious in your press to me a few years ago that you and
I go together, now would be the time to throw to France. Either that or
convince Turkey to go along with my plan that I listed in press to at.
But... judging from the fact that you didn't order the agreedupon moves
this past spring either, I guess you're on Turkey's side...
Message from Italy to France
Well, despite my neverending diplomacy to the contrary, what you have
probably viewed as inevitable has finally happened.
So the question now becomes can you take advantage of this and solo? I
don't know - it might be tough, even if we found a way to keep my fleet in
play to help you around.
Seems like you have 2 seasons to get into position before the fleet now in
Con makes it into the Ionian to act as the 4th fleet needed for the
stalemate line. You'd need fleets in Lyo, Wes and Naf to make it a
guessing game between Ion s Tys and Tun. Can't see off the top of my head
a way to get that done, both trying to keep my fleet in and not.
But one thing you do have going for you is that Turkey is tactically very
weak - he seems to have no concept of stalemate lines. Notice the move of
Nap-Apu. I was figuring that that was to allow Austria to take Naples?
But if Austria's army is in Naples, then once you get your fleets into
Lyo, Wes and Naf, he won't have the necessary support for Tys and you can
take thatand then Tun.
I hope that you will at least give it a try. Really you have no risk to
moving Por-Spa, Mao-Wes, Eng-Mao. fleet builds in Bre and Mar and you
could give it a try. I mean once I'm eliminated, your worst case is a
3-way. No risk in trying to get a solo. And don't the house rules you
cited compel you to try?
I'm in writing to AT to try and vacate Tunis, but of course I have my
doubts. I have decided though that even if I can convince them to do it
(I've suggested Tun S Wes-Naf, Tys-Lyo), that they have had their chance
(several of them in fact) and I would still order Wes-Tun. That way, if
you did order Por-Spa, Mao-Wes, Eng-Mao, I think we'd have a guarantee to
get you Tunis. No takebacks this time :-)
Anyway, talk to you later...
Message from Austria to Italy
> Well, if you were serious in your press to me a few years ago that you and
> I go together, now would be the time to throw to France. Either that or
> convince Turkey to go along with my plan that I listed in press to at.
Well....to be completely honest...I just want this game over.
I HATE this crap, it would never happen in a ftf game.
> But... judging from the fact that you didn't order the agreedupon moves
> this past spring either, I guess you're on Turkey's side...
Well...I just wanted to be done, but his little move to BUL and RUM says
to me that he is going to stab me next. He was supposed to go to ARM.
So...when he stabs me....which I expect in the fall, I will be throwing to
France.
Message from Italy to Austria
> Well....to be completely honest...I just want this game over.
>
> I HATE this crap, it would never happen in a ftf game.
Cmon that's lame. Why does everyone (not just you) have this insistence
with wanting games to be over. What's another month or 2 when we'vebeen
playing for near a year?
> So...when he stabs me....which I expect in the fall, I will be throwing to
> France.
Are you sure you can? Or that France will take the risk?
Message from Austria to Italy
>
> > Well....to be completely honest...I just want this game over.
> >
> > I HATE this crap, it would never happen in a ftf game.
>
> Cmon that's lame. Why does everyone (not just you) have this insistence
> with wanting games to be over. What's another month or 2 when we'vebeen
> playing for near a year?
How many games are you in?
> > So...when he stabs me....which I expect in the fall, I will be throwing to
> > France.
>
> Are you sure you can? Or that France will take the risk?
Yes.....Those French armies will be in Livonia and Prussia soon....
Or I can just fall back to the next stalemate line.
Message from Italy to Austria
> How many games are you in?
6. Though I recently had several of my games finish and am waiting for
some new ones to start up.
> Yes.....Those French armies will be in Livonia and Prussia soon....
He orders to Rum, Ser and support to Warsaw, and you drop 2. He could
have taken Rome too if he hadn't moved Apu-Nap?!
So, what are you removing then?
Message from Austria to Italy
> > How many games are you in?
>
> 6. Though I recently had several of my games finish and am waiting for
> some new ones to start up.
Full press? Im in 5 full press games, all as a replacement, and 3 no
press games, and 2, 7 game nopress tournaments, of which there are 12
games left.
> > Yes.....Those French armies will be in Livonia and Prussia soon....
>
> He orders to Rum, Ser and support to Warsaw, and you drop 2. He could
> have taken Rome too if he hadn't moved Apu-Nap?!
>
> So, what are you removing then?
First...I am going to get France to attack Moscow, and support GAL -UKR
If Turkey attacks me, I support the French to Moscow.
If he walks to BUD and SER, I remove ROM and PIE
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
> Full press? Im in 5 full press games, all as a replacement, and 3 no
> press games, and 2, 7 game nopress tournaments, of which there are 12
> games left.
No - not all full press. 5 no press, including the VG 2nd round game and
a WM02 tournament 2nd round game.
The point is that this game really isnt' taking up that much of either of
our time, and IMO is only very lamely used as an excuse to end the game
when the situation indicates you should play on.
> > > Yes.....Those French armies will be in Livonia and Prussia soon....
> >
> > He orders to Rum, Ser and support to Warsaw, and you drop 2. He could
> > have taken Rome too if he hadn't moved Apu-Nap?!
> >
> > So, what are you removing then?
>
> First...I am going to get France to attack Moscow, and support GAL -UKR
>
> If Turkey attacks me, I support the French to Moscow.
>
> If he walks to BUD and SER, I remove ROM and PIE
Yeah in looking at the map you can probably throw it to France.
But why? Shouldn't we just either press on towards France, or just sit
and call it a 4-way? Why should I be punished for something that is no
fault of my own?
Message from Austria to Italy
> Yeah in looking at the map you can probably throw it to France.
>
> But why? Shouldn't we just either press on towards France, or just sit
> and call it a 4-way? Why should I be punished for something that is no
> fault of my own?
Because the Turk has made it indellibly clear to both France and I that he
had no intentions of keeping you in the draw.
And no amount of my arguing with him helped. Its why he wasnt setting draw
all this time.
This is the turn that Turkey either stabs me and France gets a solo or
doesnt and we take a 3 way.
One way or another this game gets over.
I wanted to keep you in the draw....as my press will prove once this is
all done.
Andy
Message from France to Italy
Dan,
> Well, despite my neverending diplomacy to the contrary, what you have
> probably viewed as inevitable has finally happened.
It is still way beyond my understanding what made you hope otherwise.
At least both Turkey's and Austria's standpoint was crystal clear and
consistent all the way in private press and their broadcasts.
> So the question now becomes can you take advantage of this and solo? I
> don't know - it might be tough, even if we found a way to keep my fleet in
> play to help you around.
I will have to think what can be done but I highly doubt that any
attempt with Tunis is useful.
But I will think about it.
> I hope that you will at least give it a try. Really you have no risk to
> moving Por-Spa, Mao-Wes, Eng-Mao. fleet builds in Bre and Mar and you
> could give it a try. I mean once I'm eliminated, your worst case is a
> 3-way. No risk in trying to get a solo. And don't the house rules you
> cited compel you to try?
No, they do not.
> I think we'd have a guarantee to get you Tunis.
> No takebacks this time :-)
You know, Dan, I actually doubt this. If there was a second time, with
you in Tunis again, your case would be extremely strong to deter Turkey
from trying it again, and similarly (I agree that his tactical skills
are not very good), he would not see another withdrawal of my forces
good enough again. What would make you keep your promise this time?
> Anyway, talk to you later...
Definitely. And I am sorry for the short reply, I am on holiday and
lack my usual internet connectivity (which is also why I was late). I
do have a few things on my mind, but - as I told you - I have already
settled for the FAT. Do not worry, I will try to push the buttons I
find, but I have yet to find the most promising one, and I am not too
optimistic.
Tamas
Message from Italy to Turkey
What? No reply? TUrkey, don't I at least deserve better than that? Why
are you insisting on ending this game without me?
I recognize that you're just trying to do the best for your country. I
have to say though that if you try for a 2-way draw now you will lose.
But if you work with me to weaken France so that he's not sitting on 17,
then you have a chance to do it. Or maybe even solo.
All you need to do is just order Wes-Naf and Tys-Lyo and there we go.
Your only leverage to get France to move back is the threat of not
eliminating me and forcing him to take a 4-way draw. Once I'm gone he has
no incentive to back off at all.
Italy: Fleet Tunis → Western Mediterranean
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