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Message from Master to all
As I mentioned before, there's a player who's asked for an extension
for August 14-20. Right now, the deadline is set for the evening
of the 14th; we'll extend the deadline following that if it involves
the missing player. If not, we'll retreat, build, and extend the
deadline for S1904M.
Please submit orders for F1903M on time. Thanks,
Doug
Message from England to Germany
OK, Fredd, time to wake up the troups and get them into battle.
Since my last note I have had brief exchanges with Russia, Austria, Italy
and Turkey. The only thing I conclude from all of that is that I don't
think the east is the least bit settled, in spite of what seems to have
been a defining stab of Austria by Italy. Every eastern power has deceived
or been deceived by every other power, and that usually makes for a weird,
unstable situation for a long time. Trust is nonexistent over there.
We ought to be able to take advantage by doing what we have always done.
Waiting to here from you.
Your partner,
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
> OK, Fredd, time to wake up the troups and get them into battle.
Ah what timing. I'm just sitting down to look everything over. More
to follow.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Ahh that break was nice. I've always hated it when games stop like
this. But in the high pressure, high stakes Titleist world it was a
relief.
I've also conversed with everyone else at least once this week. (so I
guess it wasn't that quiet, but at least it wasn't everyone everyday)
I'll agree that IT doesn't seem rock solid. I wonder what that Austrian
fleet in AEG will do. You'd think that Italy and Turkey will at least
stay friends until Austria is eliminated. But you never know.
Closer to home.
RUH s BEL and MUN - BUR are ordered.
I'd still rather that you stayed out of the North Sea. Certainly we
trust each other more and more. I would actually trust you not to attack
me in HOL or DEN. At least for awhile. But I'd have to move a fleet
into DEN at the very least. (I don't think that I should trust you
completely) That would blunt my attack on STP. Possibly allow Russia
to get an army into STP or his fleet in FIN. It would just complicate
matters. For you too. I'd have to make some covering moves, then
you'd get nervous and make some covering moves. Next thing you know,
neither of us is concentrating on our real opponent, and we stall.
Consider how you would feel if I wanted to put a fleet into NTH. That's
pretty much how I feel.
I do realize your concern once I'm in BUR and RUH. Then I'll have
pressure on BEL. I'm willing to take your lead to keep this a friendly
border. I could stay out of BUR if you wish?
The other problem is the Russian fleet. I could force it to retreat to
STP. PRU-LVN with support of my two fleets. But I think it was you who
pointed out that he could disband the fleet and build an army there.
Definitely something that we don't want. I guess that all I'll do is
toss a coin and either send BOT to STP or not.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
Have a good time on your break. Or Hope you had a good time.
I don't have much to report. After rereading your press I noticed that
you're not planning on attacking Russia this turn. Probably a good move
on your part. Let me attack him, then perhaps I'll draw his forces up
north, then you can use that new army to grab SEV, etc.
What an interesting game. Too bad that you're not in RUM anymore. I
could support you to GAL. Just a thought for the future.
Fredd.
Message from Germany to Austria
> > Will you support me into WAR?
>
> Right now, my country desparately needs centers. In almost
> any other situation, I would strongly consider supporting you,
> but right now, there's no tomorrow, and whatever good you can
> do for me tomorrow has little value today.
Well I suppose that I could support you to hold in VIE. But the only
threat to that is if I and R gang up on you. Which I consider to be
unlikely.
You can walk into SEV, if Turkey doesn't bounce you. I guess that's why
WAR isn't a tempting target. I could be talked into supporting you in
there, but you'd have to realize that I'm going to attack it soon. So
(hopefully) your stay would be brief.
Just doesn't look like there's a lot we can do together this turn.
Maybe next turn.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
> Is there any possibility of Boh-Vie? Perhaps as compensation for
> moving out of Tyrolia. :) If not, I can go another direction.
Maybe. But are you going to support me in, or do you just want me to
cut his support? If you're supporting me in, then I'll go. If you
want me to cut support, then I'll have to think about it some more. But
I owe Austria no favors.
If I were a betting man. (I'm always wrong) I'd say that Turkey will
give you Greece, and support you to hold in TRI. In exchange you'd pull
your fleet out of EAS, and he wouldn't build a fleet.
IF this is true, then BOH- VIE isn't needed to cut support.
Another question would be why you'd want to help me into VIE. Certainly
you'll build an army in VEN and I wouldn't last long there. Plus I'd be
going in a different direction than I want to. Instead of consolidating
my forces, I'd be spreading out. Another build in my pocket would also
make England nervous.
So I guess there are many reasons why you'd support me in. All of those
reasons would also be why I shouldn't go. But I'd go anyway. A build
is a build. I'd worry about hanging onto it later on.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
I hope you had a pleasant vacation. I for one totally enjoyed a bit
of a more leisurely pace this week.
I'm afraid that there's nothing new to report. Perhaps it's just
recently that you saw that Italian stab of Austria. I can tell you a
little more about that. Austria seemed to think that Italy should take
on Turkey all by himself. Italy was too concerned about England
entering the MED to commit himself to the far east.
Now everyone in the east has stabbed everyone else. Sorta. I wonder
how long I and T will be friends. I'm betting not long. If they are
though it means problems for both of us. Turkey will be contesting me
for Russia, possibly even using Russia against me. While Italy is free
to swing toward your backside.
We shall see.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Russia
Nick
> GoB-StP will bounce off Lvn-StP, and force me to build in StP. Is that
> what you really want?
Good point. I was planning on forcing you to retreat to STP, but I
forgot that you could disband and rebuild as an army. Not at all what I
want.
My goal is for you to put your fleet in STP. The only way I can get
that is if you move it there yourself. Either as an agreement, or to
protect from GOB-STP. I don't have a lot of faith in reaching an
agreement. So let's toss a coin. Winner puts a fleet in STP.
You're the 2nd person to want me to go BOH-TYR-PIE. I'm not going to
spook Italy by doing that.
I also see your point about attacking the person who is trying to
contain IT. But from what I've heard from Turkey, I think that I should
worry more about RT right now.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
> Ahh that break was nice. I've always hated it when games stop like
>this. But in the high pressure, high stakes Titleist world it was a
>relief.
I like the continuity, no matter how intense. Right now, I have the time.
That helps.
> I wonder what that Austrian fleet in AEG will do.
It seems to have no useful purpose now. Austria will destroy it, I assume.
> You'd think that Italy and Turkey will at least
>stay friends until Austria is eliminated. But you never know.
This is not at all obvious to me. Turkey has been burned by Italy in the
past, so there is not myuch loyality there. You can never completely undo
that first betrayal. Italy says that Turkey is supposed to hand over
Greece as part of the deal. Will Turkey do it? Come to think of it,
Austria might use that fleet to screw up the handover of Greece, for
Austria knows that Italy is supposed to get Greece.
>RUH s BEL and MUN - BUR are ordered.
>I'd still rather that you stayed out of the North Sea.
Understood.
>Certainly we trust each other more and more.
Agreed. Also, that's my style. I have gained far more in past games by
trusting, even at some risk, than I have lost by it.
>I would actually trust you not to attack me in HOL or DEN. At least for
>awhile.
Good. If I were in the North Sea this fall, I would immediately order
North Sea->Belg in the spring to accompany Belg->Picardy. So you would
only need that trust for one move, the spring move.
>But I'd have to move a fleet into DEN at the very least.
I have no problem with this.
> I do realize your concern once I'm in BUR and RUH.
This has never been a concern of mine.
>I could stay out of BUR if you wish?
It's not what I had envisioned. I was hoping for a double attack on
Picardy by me and a double attack on Burgundy by you next spring. That
gives me a chance to pick up a supply center in the fall with your help.
I will return to this issue after responding to one other remark of yours.
> The other problem is the Russian fleet. I could force it to retreat to
>STP. PRU-LVN with support of my two fleets. But I think it was you who
>pointed out that he could disband the fleet and build an army there.
>Definitely something that we don't want. I guess that all I'll do is
>toss a coin and either send BOT to STP or not.
Tough choice. I looked at this a few days ago, and I cannot see any way to
guarantee that Russia will not build an army in StP. It's best just to hit
him hard and hope that all his units disappear soon. I think Austria may
get Sevast this fall, and you will certainly get StP next year.
Ok, now back to our real problem. I think it is a very serious problem. I
like a trusting partnership. Sure, I may stab if I think I see a good
chance for a win. I will also consider a 2-way as we discussed. But I
almost invariably go for a long term relationship. It pays off when the
rest of the world is in chaos.
I also want a partnership of equality. That's very important for the
mutual success of the team. You have one more unit than I do. Next year
you will get at least StP. Who knows about Warsaw? How are we going to
end next year on a relatively equal footing? I cannot see any way to get a
French unit if we, once again, have to support Belgium from Ruhr. I may
get into the Channel this fall, but if I support Belgium from the Channel,
then I have no attack on Picardy or Brest. Even if we make the most
powerful moves I can envision (with help from the North Sea, see above), we
are not fully guaranteed a French center in the fall. But I am willing to
take that chance.
I see one alternative way to guarantee equality. When you get StP you
could lend me Holland. Then we would be 6-6. This is acceptable, but it
is second rate. We can do better, because lending me Holland does little
toward the defeat of France.
I hope this notion of equality does not surprise you. I feel it was
implicit from the beginning. The reason that you have the potential to
grow faster than me is because I had to take on the stronger neighbor. But
we are a team. I want us to be a team five years from now.
Fredd, if you can see any way out of this dilemma that does not involve the
North Sea for one turn, I am all ears. I want this to work. Any ideas?
Most respectfully and faithfully,
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I'm in full agreement with maintaining equality between us. In fact,
if you look over my old presses I'm sure that you will see reference to
exactly that several times. I don't remember specific times, but the
same thought reoccurs game after game. Therefore I'm sure I've mentioned
it many times.
All that being said you'll have to excuse me if I'm a bit nonchalant
about it. I believe this is a case or our own paranoia talking. I'm
sure that it looks to you as if I have a very easy road through Northern
Russia. While to me it looks rather difficult. I wouldn't be
surprised to see a lot of complications arise. One turn ago Turkey
looked like he was on deaths door. Now he looks like a powerhouse.
Russia and Austria currently look weak. What will they look like after
this next turn?
On the other hand, I see seven units surrounding France's five.
(With a probable Italian unit due soon) Brest will surely fall by next
fall, and probably something else. Therefore, it's quite possible that
you'll build two while I build none next fall. You just never know.
If I pick up STP and you get nothing, I have no problem with letting
you pick up HOL temporarily. Hopefully if the situation should reverse
itself (unlikely but possible) then you could pass me BEL.
A double attack on BUR and PIC in the spring should put a world of hurt
on France. You'll have to send the fleet into PIC. OR risk a retreat to
BEL. That will force France back to MAR and PAR. Unfortunately we
won't be able to attack Paris. But Brest will surely fall.
Fredd
Message from Austria to Germany
> Well I suppose that I could support you to hold in VIE. But the only
> threat to that is if I and R gang up on you. Which I consider to be
> unlikely.
Ser and Tri probably won't be moving, and neither you nor I can cut
their double support for Gal-Bud. But with your help, I do have a
chance of bouncing Gal-Bud, if both Vie and Boh support Bud-Gal.
Earlier, though, you said you wouldn't be able to help me defend my
homeland. Have you changed your mind?
Grace, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Russia to all
My moves are in. Wait is NOT set. If you want to try to influence my
moves, contact me.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
You leave little for us to discuss. I do not understand
why you ordered Swe to Bot. All Russia had to do was
hold in Bot and then retreat to Fin. That would have
prevented your taking ST. Petes for at least another
year. Are you that submissive to England that you had no
choice but to move away from his center in Norway? You
could have easily argued for Bal -> Bot, which would have
given you an option for this fall to cut England down to
three centers. I notice now that only he can take one of
yours.
Congratulations on your position in general. The Italian
move must be to your liking. I see you growing quickly
now. But what about the long term? You may get be the
German sandwich between the Turkish and English bread.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
Actually England suggested that I stay in Sweden. I was trying to
arrange a deal with Russia, but he's very difficult to work with. I
finally gave up and just attacked him. If he had retreated to FIN, I
would have just walked him around to STP. The same conditions still
exist actually. Keeping the Russian fleet penned up takes both my
fleets, and pulls them further east. Which presents a prime opportunity
for an English stab.
Once again I am insulted (a bit) by your insinuation that Ivy is
pulling my strings.
Who knows what will happen in the east? Like I said alliances could
switch each turn. Everyone down there has stabbed someone else
already. With Italy making two excellent stabs already.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
Either you live in a faraway time zone or you keep weird hours! 8-)
>I'm in full agreement with maintaining equality between us.
Terrific. I am glad the subject has come up again. It helps
reconfirm. And, yes, I will indeed hand over Belgium or anything else if
that is needed to even our supply centers. Uh, almost anything else.
> I'm sure that it looks to you as if I have a very easy road through
> Northern
>Russia.
Well yes, it does. Boh-Sil gives you a double attack on Warsaw, and it is
easy to get a double attack on StP with your fleets. You can be guaranteed
StP in the spring if you wish.
> On the other hand, I see seven units surrounding France's five.
>(With a probable Italian unit due soon)
For now, I count that 6 vs 6. Italy has promised France that the Italian
fleet will support France. And Italy's word is as good as ... as good as
... hmmm, it's worthless, I suppose. Italy says he will prop up France,
but we really don't know until the time comes.
> Brest will surely fall by next
>fall, and probably something else. Therefore, it's quite possible that
>you'll build two while I build none next fall. You just never know.
Fredd, to be honest, I don't think the board configuration supports that
claim at all. I see no moves that guarantee even one center for me next
year. That's why I am desperate to use more force against France.
>If I pick up STP and you get nothing, I have no problem with letting
>you pick up HOL temporarily.
OK, but we can do better than that. Of course, it may be impossible for me
to take Holland without France getting Belgium. On the other hand, I just
can't believe that this scenario is what we will settle for. It's too meek.
> A double attack on BUR and PIC in the spring should put a world of hurt
>on France. You'll have to send the fleet into PIC. OR risk a retreat to
>BEL.
Not if I have North Sea->Bel. That gets North Sea out of your hair as
well. The alternative, Channel->Picardy is foiled by Pic s Burgundy->Bel.
It's really fairly messy, and I do not see guarantees (unlike, say your
attack on StP). I don't want to go to North Sea without your permission,
but I am frustrated with attacking France only with limited force. Having
North Sea->Bel frees up Channel and gives us more options. I think we
might succeed in getting Brest in that situation.
Please think about this. We are just on the verge of dominating this game.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from Germany to Austria
I have already entered orders of BOH - GAL. I'll change them to BOH s
BUD - GAL.
This doesn't contradict what I said earlier. With this move I'm not
messing with Turkey or Italy. Just Russia, who I've declared war on.
I assume that you're going after either MOS or SEV with your unit in
UKR. I've ordered PRU-WAR. I'm hoping that WAR goes to MOS.
Sorry I can't talk more. Got to get out of here. I won't get any more
mail until the end of the day.
My units that concern you have the following orders
PRU-WAR
BOH s a bud - GAL
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
I don't have time to respond to your full press, but consider.
Russia keeps WAR.
Turkey bounces UKR out of SEV.
TUrkey and ITaly support GAL to BUD.
Russia builds 2. And is quite alive and well.
Turkey and Russia declared the Juggernaut a turn or two ago. I've seen
nothing that suggests that they aren't still working together.
Italy could easily support Russia in an attempt to thwart me and Turkey,
down the road.
So you see. Through my paranoid colored glasses, my road doesn't look
that easy.
Fredd
I keep weird hours.
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>I don't have time to respond to your full press, but consider.
>Russia keeps WAR.
>Turkey bounces UKR out of SEV.
>TUrkey and ITaly support GAL to BUD.
>
>Russia builds 2. And is quite alive and well.
I see your point. It's possible, but unlikely.
>I keep weird hours.
Get some sleep. I like well-rested friends. 8-)
Write when you get a chance. 'Spose I'll have to work now.
Ivy
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>If he had retreated to FIN, I would have
>just walked him around to STP.
Yes, but you would have had a fleet in St. Petes while he
had a fleet in Sweden. I guess that it would have
been breaking even for you, but it would have been more
of a problem to take back Sweden as well as raise issues
protecting Norway and Denmark. You took an awful gamble.
Your gambles pay off better than mine do. Or perhaps you
were secretly hoping to have Russia in Sweden. You would
have had an excuse to scramble around an be better
prepared for an attack on England.
>Once again I am insulted (a bit) by your
>insinuation that Ivy is pulling my strings.
It is all I have left to keep me amused.
If you had stayed in Sweden I was going to attack Belgium
and tell you about it. You had the option of cutting
England down to 3 centers or using the information to
take Burgundy. But now I have no incentive or
opportunity to do so. Perhaps I will make a similar
arrangement with England.
>Who knows what will happen in the east?
> Like I said alliances could switch each turn.
It looked like a perfect opportunity for you to eliminate
England. But you obviously have other plans.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
>My goal is for you to put your fleet in STP. The only way I can get
>that is if you move it there yourself. Either as an agreement, or to
>protect from GOB-STP. I don't have a lot of faith in reaching an
>agreement. So let's toss a coin. Winner puts a fleet in STP.
I've always found that reaching an agreement is much
more likely way to get the results you want than trying to
force it.
>You're the 2nd person to want me to go BOH-TYR-PIE. from what I've heard
>from Turkey, I think that I should
>worry more about RT right now.
Hmm, I wonder what you're hearing from Turkey? If
he's the 2nd person, I would guess that he doesn't
want to have to fight you for my Centres, and would
welcome an IG conflict, rather than he views me as an
ally.
Nick.
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
One last consideration, and then I will shut up.
What happens if Russia does build an army in StP? We can't quite guarantee
that won't happen. There will be hell to pay. That army will bounce
around in Scandinavia, and it will take several of our units to eliminate
it.
However, if I am in the North Sea (tired, broken record), then I could go
to Norway and you could send one fleet to Finland and we cut off the
Russian army and destroy it in StP before it causes trouble.
Let's hope that doesn't happen.
OK. Now I shut up. Please send a brief response before the moves are due.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
My number one goal is to keep Russia from getting an army into STP.
Because I can see the problems that it'll cause, just as you point
out.
I'm trying to get Russia to retreat there. I also feel that he has
to. I can't imagine that he's made peace with Austria, because that
army in UKR HAS to go to SEV or MOS (I suppose RUM is a remote
possibility) Russia should hang onto WAR. If he doesn't lose anything
else or he also picks up BUD then he'll build. But not if he loses
STP.
Summing up.
.He can't afford to lose STP, but building there isn't supremely
important. He could always build in MOS.
But then I'm always wrong
Fredd
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
You're right that I'm not planning to attack Russia this turn. My only real
attack would be Sev, and that might just bounce an Austrian move there.
However, my plan at this point is to go anti-Russian in the spring. Of
course, once again the things I'm hearing from my three neighbors don't quite
jive, so as always I cannot rule out the possibility that I may get screwed in
the result. But if things go as planned, then I should be building at least
one this year, and southern Russia beckons. I will also be attempting to
re-occupy Rum, and from there we will have a number of opportunities.
In any case, best of luck to you in the result. From what I know, there is at
least a slim chance that Russia will gain a center from Austria, though I
myself will do nothing to support him. I've also tried to nudge Austria
toward attacking Mos (indeed, I believe such an attack would succeed), in
which case he could be a big help with War/StP.
Please don't hesitate to write with any thoughts, concerns or comments.
Ali
Message from Master to all
Just a reminder: please submit moves today. We have another extension
coming up and I'd like to get in the moves, retreats, and builds if
we can before his return.
Doug
PS: which player was it? Could the departing power please remind me?
Message from Italy to Germany
> > Is there any possibility of Boh-Vie?
> Maybe. But are you going to support me in, or do you just want me to
> cut his support? If you're supporting me in, then I'll go. If you
> want me to cut support, then I'll have to think about it some more.
Can I support you in? I'd have to answer no. I think that would adversely
affect my diplomatic relations with Turkey and to a lesser extent England.
There are rumors though of an AT plan to take Trieste which, if true, might
allow you to waltz into Vienna without my support.
I fully understand if you have other plans and in no way would our relations
be affected if you decided to move east and north against Russia.
> Certainly you'll build an army in VEN and I wouldn't last long there.
Given the luxury of a build this winter (not guaranteed by any stretch of
the imagination) I would still consider strongly building another fleet if
everything went as I hope.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Austria: Fleet Aegean Sea → Greece (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Vienna → Trieste (*cut*)
Austria: Army Ukraine → Sevastopol
Austria: Army Vienna → Trieste (*bounce*)
England: Army Belgium SUPPORT German Army Munich → Burgundy
England: Fleet Irish Sea → English Channel
England: Fleet London → North Sea
England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Irish Sea → English Channel
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Brest → English Channel (*bounce*)
France: Army Burgundy → Belgium (*bounce, dislodged*)
France: Army Gascony → Spain (*bounce*)
France: Army Picardy SUPPORT Army Burgundy → Belgium
France: Fleet Portugal → Spain (south coast) (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Baltic Sea → Livonia
Germany: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Austrian Army Budapest → Galicia (*void*)
Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Russian Fleet Livonia → St Petersburg (south coast)
Germany: Army Munich → Burgundy
Germany: Army Prussia → Warsaw (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT English Army Belgium
Italy: Army Albania SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Ionian Sea
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Army Trieste SUPPORT Russian Army Galicia → Budapest (*cut*)
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Western Mediterranean
Russia: Army Galicia → Budapest (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Livonia → St Petersburg (south coast)
Russia: Army Warsaw HOLD
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Greece → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Serbia SUPPORT Italian Army Trieste
Turkey: Army Smyrna → Constantinople (*bounce*)
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