|
|
Message from Master to all
As I mentioned before, there's a player who's asked for an extension
for August 14-20. Right now, the deadline is set for the evening
of the 14th; we'll extend the deadline following that if it involves
the missing player. If not, we'll retreat, build, and extend the
deadline for S1904M.
Please submit orders for F1903M on time. Thanks,
Doug
Message from England to Germany
OK, Fredd, time to wake up the troups and get them into battle.
Since my last note I have had brief exchanges with Russia, Austria, Italy
and Turkey. The only thing I conclude from all of that is that I don't
think the east is the least bit settled, in spite of what seems to have
been a defining stab of Austria by Italy. Every eastern power has deceived
or been deceived by every other power, and that usually makes for a weird,
unstable situation for a long time. Trust is nonexistent over there.
We ought to be able to take advantage by doing what we have always done.
Waiting to here from you.
Your partner,
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
> OK, Fredd, time to wake up the troups and get them into battle.
Ah what timing. I'm just sitting down to look everything over. More
to follow.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Ahh that break was nice. I've always hated it when games stop like
this. But in the high pressure, high stakes Titleist world it was a
relief.
I've also conversed with everyone else at least once this week. (so I
guess it wasn't that quiet, but at least it wasn't everyone everyday)
I'll agree that IT doesn't seem rock solid. I wonder what that Austrian
fleet in AEG will do. You'd think that Italy and Turkey will at least
stay friends until Austria is eliminated. But you never know.
Closer to home.
RUH s BEL and MUN - BUR are ordered.
I'd still rather that you stayed out of the North Sea. Certainly we
trust each other more and more. I would actually trust you not to attack
me in HOL or DEN. At least for awhile. But I'd have to move a fleet
into DEN at the very least. (I don't think that I should trust you
completely) That would blunt my attack on STP. Possibly allow Russia
to get an army into STP or his fleet in FIN. It would just complicate
matters. For you too. I'd have to make some covering moves, then
you'd get nervous and make some covering moves. Next thing you know,
neither of us is concentrating on our real opponent, and we stall.
Consider how you would feel if I wanted to put a fleet into NTH. That's
pretty much how I feel.
I do realize your concern once I'm in BUR and RUH. Then I'll have
pressure on BEL. I'm willing to take your lead to keep this a friendly
border. I could stay out of BUR if you wish?
The other problem is the Russian fleet. I could force it to retreat to
STP. PRU-LVN with support of my two fleets. But I think it was you who
pointed out that he could disband the fleet and build an army there.
Definitely something that we don't want. I guess that all I'll do is
toss a coin and either send BOT to STP or not.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
> Ahh that break was nice. I've always hated it when games stop like
>this. But in the high pressure, high stakes Titleist world it was a
>relief.
I like the continuity, no matter how intense. Right now, I have the time.
That helps.
> I wonder what that Austrian fleet in AEG will do.
It seems to have no useful purpose now. Austria will destroy it, I assume.
> You'd think that Italy and Turkey will at least
>stay friends until Austria is eliminated. But you never know.
This is not at all obvious to me. Turkey has been burned by Italy in the
past, so there is not myuch loyality there. You can never completely undo
that first betrayal. Italy says that Turkey is supposed to hand over
Greece as part of the deal. Will Turkey do it? Come to think of it,
Austria might use that fleet to screw up the handover of Greece, for
Austria knows that Italy is supposed to get Greece.
>RUH s BEL and MUN - BUR are ordered.
>I'd still rather that you stayed out of the North Sea.
Understood.
>Certainly we trust each other more and more.
Agreed. Also, that's my style. I have gained far more in past games by
trusting, even at some risk, than I have lost by it.
>I would actually trust you not to attack me in HOL or DEN. At least for
>awhile.
Good. If I were in the North Sea this fall, I would immediately order
North Sea->Belg in the spring to accompany Belg->Picardy. So you would
only need that trust for one move, the spring move.
>But I'd have to move a fleet into DEN at the very least.
I have no problem with this.
> I do realize your concern once I'm in BUR and RUH.
This has never been a concern of mine.
>I could stay out of BUR if you wish?
It's not what I had envisioned. I was hoping for a double attack on
Picardy by me and a double attack on Burgundy by you next spring. That
gives me a chance to pick up a supply center in the fall with your help.
I will return to this issue after responding to one other remark of yours.
> The other problem is the Russian fleet. I could force it to retreat to
>STP. PRU-LVN with support of my two fleets. But I think it was you who
>pointed out that he could disband the fleet and build an army there.
>Definitely something that we don't want. I guess that all I'll do is
>toss a coin and either send BOT to STP or not.
Tough choice. I looked at this a few days ago, and I cannot see any way to
guarantee that Russia will not build an army in StP. It's best just to hit
him hard and hope that all his units disappear soon. I think Austria may
get Sevast this fall, and you will certainly get StP next year.
Ok, now back to our real problem. I think it is a very serious problem. I
like a trusting partnership. Sure, I may stab if I think I see a good
chance for a win. I will also consider a 2-way as we discussed. But I
almost invariably go for a long term relationship. It pays off when the
rest of the world is in chaos.
I also want a partnership of equality. That's very important for the
mutual success of the team. You have one more unit than I do. Next year
you will get at least StP. Who knows about Warsaw? How are we going to
end next year on a relatively equal footing? I cannot see any way to get a
French unit if we, once again, have to support Belgium from Ruhr. I may
get into the Channel this fall, but if I support Belgium from the Channel,
then I have no attack on Picardy or Brest. Even if we make the most
powerful moves I can envision (with help from the North Sea, see above), we
are not fully guaranteed a French center in the fall. But I am willing to
take that chance.
I see one alternative way to guarantee equality. When you get StP you
could lend me Holland. Then we would be 6-6. This is acceptable, but it
is second rate. We can do better, because lending me Holland does little
toward the defeat of France.
I hope this notion of equality does not surprise you. I feel it was
implicit from the beginning. The reason that you have the potential to
grow faster than me is because I had to take on the stronger neighbor. But
we are a team. I want us to be a team five years from now.
Fredd, if you can see any way out of this dilemma that does not involve the
North Sea for one turn, I am all ears. I want this to work. Any ideas?
Most respectfully and faithfully,
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I'm in full agreement with maintaining equality between us. In fact,
if you look over my old presses I'm sure that you will see reference to
exactly that several times. I don't remember specific times, but the
same thought reoccurs game after game. Therefore I'm sure I've mentioned
it many times.
All that being said you'll have to excuse me if I'm a bit nonchalant
about it. I believe this is a case or our own paranoia talking. I'm
sure that it looks to you as if I have a very easy road through Northern
Russia. While to me it looks rather difficult. I wouldn't be
surprised to see a lot of complications arise. One turn ago Turkey
looked like he was on deaths door. Now he looks like a powerhouse.
Russia and Austria currently look weak. What will they look like after
this next turn?
On the other hand, I see seven units surrounding France's five.
(With a probable Italian unit due soon) Brest will surely fall by next
fall, and probably something else. Therefore, it's quite possible that
you'll build two while I build none next fall. You just never know.
If I pick up STP and you get nothing, I have no problem with letting
you pick up HOL temporarily. Hopefully if the situation should reverse
itself (unlikely but possible) then you could pass me BEL.
A double attack on BUR and PIC in the spring should put a world of hurt
on France. You'll have to send the fleet into PIC. OR risk a retreat to
BEL. That will force France back to MAR and PAR. Unfortunately we
won't be able to attack Paris. But Brest will surely fall.
Fredd
Message from Russia to all
My moves are in. Wait is NOT set. If you want to try to influence my
moves, contact me.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Thank you for your kind words, but I do not see the
changed dynamic in the south as a very useful victory for
France. Certainly having the south resolved sooner may
help put pressure on yourself and Germany. But the
alliance that occurred in the south puts no pressure on
you two right now. Also, Italy should be given the
credit for creating the alliance. I merely put it over
the top.
I do agree that Turkey is looking the best in the game.
You are not looking too badly, but Germany is looking
better. We shall indeed see if the Italian fleet in
coming to help me as promised or whether it will help you
as perhaps promised to yourself.
I knew that my shot at Belgium was a long one. I figured
that I had a 50-50 chance to save MAO. I guessed
wrongly. In hindsight the support from the MAO was a
waste and it should have been ordered to NAO.
So how did you con Russia into moving to Livonia?
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
Either you live in a faraway time zone or you keep weird hours! 8-)
>I'm in full agreement with maintaining equality between us.
Terrific. I am glad the subject has come up again. It helps
reconfirm. And, yes, I will indeed hand over Belgium or anything else if
that is needed to even our supply centers. Uh, almost anything else.
> I'm sure that it looks to you as if I have a very easy road through
> Northern
>Russia.
Well yes, it does. Boh-Sil gives you a double attack on Warsaw, and it is
easy to get a double attack on StP with your fleets. You can be guaranteed
StP in the spring if you wish.
> On the other hand, I see seven units surrounding France's five.
>(With a probable Italian unit due soon)
For now, I count that 6 vs 6. Italy has promised France that the Italian
fleet will support France. And Italy's word is as good as ... as good as
... hmmm, it's worthless, I suppose. Italy says he will prop up France,
but we really don't know until the time comes.
> Brest will surely fall by next
>fall, and probably something else. Therefore, it's quite possible that
>you'll build two while I build none next fall. You just never know.
Fredd, to be honest, I don't think the board configuration supports that
claim at all. I see no moves that guarantee even one center for me next
year. That's why I am desperate to use more force against France.
>If I pick up STP and you get nothing, I have no problem with letting
>you pick up HOL temporarily.
OK, but we can do better than that. Of course, it may be impossible for me
to take Holland without France getting Belgium. On the other hand, I just
can't believe that this scenario is what we will settle for. It's too meek.
> A double attack on BUR and PIC in the spring should put a world of hurt
>on France. You'll have to send the fleet into PIC. OR risk a retreat to
>BEL.
Not if I have North Sea->Bel. That gets North Sea out of your hair as
well. The alternative, Channel->Picardy is foiled by Pic s Burgundy->Bel.
It's really fairly messy, and I do not see guarantees (unlike, say your
attack on StP). I don't want to go to North Sea without your permission,
but I am frustrated with attacking France only with limited force. Having
North Sea->Bel frees up Channel and gives us more options. I think we
might succeed in getting Brest in that situation.
Please think about this. We are just on the verge of dominating this game.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>My moves are in. Wait is NOT set. If you want to try to influence my
>moves, contact me.
Germany and I are having a diplomatic disagreement. I have no idea what he
is going to do with his fleets. I wish I could say more.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
I don't have time to respond to your full press, but consider.
Russia keeps WAR.
Turkey bounces UKR out of SEV.
TUrkey and ITaly support GAL to BUD.
Russia builds 2. And is quite alive and well.
Turkey and Russia declared the Juggernaut a turn or two ago. I've seen
nothing that suggests that they aren't still working together.
Italy could easily support Russia in an attempt to thwart me and Turkey,
down the road.
So you see. Through my paranoid colored glasses, my road doesn't look
that easy.
Fredd
I keep weird hours.
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>We shall indeed see if the Italian fleet in
>coming to help me as promised or whether it will help you
>as perhaps promised to yourself.
More than perhaps. Italy has a style of his own. His word is as good as
... as good as
... hmmm, it's worthless, I suppose, given what others have said he has
said. The Italian fleet will go to West Med with your blessing and
mine. What it will really do there afterwards I don't pretend to know in
advance.
>So how did you con Russia into moving to Livonia?
Russia, too, has a unique style. Livonia was Russia's idea. He insisted
on moving to Livonia along with the German moves Swe-Bal & Bal-Pru. This
was Russia's anti-Austrian scheme. He repeated these plans ad nauseam,
message after message, even though Germany told him that he didn't like the
plans and I told him that I had no control over German moves in the northeast.
Germany is being difficult. I don't know how much longer this can go
on. But just to be clear, my moves will be still be pro-German this fall.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>I don't have time to respond to your full press, but consider.
>Russia keeps WAR.
>Turkey bounces UKR out of SEV.
>TUrkey and ITaly support GAL to BUD.
>
>Russia builds 2. And is quite alive and well.
I see your point. It's possible, but unlikely.
>I keep weird hours.
Get some sleep. I like well-rested friends. 8-)
Write when you get a chance. 'Spose I'll have to work now.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Wingo:
> Germany is being difficult.
Thanks for making my day. Well, perhaps that is a bit
strong. Thanks for making my moment. I enjoy hearing
about your sufferings when dealing with him. He does
challenge my resolve at making certain you have a hard
time at succeeding. I sometimes get tempted to hand you
a couple centers just to make his life difficult :-) But
I am not going to do that. You will have to earn them or
perhaps capitalize on my mistakes.
You took a chance letting Germany attack Gulf of Bothnia
from Sweden. What if Russia had not been so foolish as
to move to Livonia. If he had held and retreated to
Finland. Germany could have taken St. Petes and let him
into Sweden. Norway and the North Sea would have been
vulnerable. Then again, you probably did not want
Germany in Sweden because the opportunity to cut you down
to three centers was there.
Obviously I am making all the wrong decisions. But
things are going well for you. I grudgingly offer my
congratulations.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to France
>You took a chance letting Germany attack Gulf of Bothnia
>from Sweden. What if Russia had not been so foolish as
>to move to Livonia. If he had held and retreated to
>Finland.
"letting" ?? I obviously had no control over the situation. Russia was so
obviously going to Livonia, demanding all along that Germany enter Swe->Bal
& Bal->Pru. I begged Germany to stay in Sweden for fear of Bot->Swe (!) --
even in a joint message to Germany and Russia. Germany reassured me he
would stay in Sweden.
>Obviously I am making all the wrong decisions. But
>things are going well for you.
Wish I felt the same. I think my "grand strategy" is hanging by a thread.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>Germany and I are having a diplomatic disagreement. I have no idea what he
>is going to do with his fleets. I wish I could say more.
I urge you to consider MAO-Eng, Lon-Nth, Bel-Hol,
NAO-Nwg. Otherwise you run the risk of France throwing
Centres to Germany to deny you builds, and Germany
expanding in the East and West until he becomes too big
to control.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Just so you know, France is not "dying" to work with
Germany. If you did decide to turn on him. Our anger at
your betrayal would be overlooked in favor of our
pleasure at seeing him gutted. Even though our
original plan was to being insulting and arrogant to you,
in hopes that Germany would get the idea that our bridges
were burned with you, we find ourselves being civil with
you and insulting Germany yearly.
I do not expect you to answer this statement, I just
wanted you to know where we stood. Until such time that
we see a visible change on your part, we shall put all of
effort into our defense. Of course that defense will be
focussed around France and if you suddenly pulled out it
would stumble around france and not spill into your
territory.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
One last consideration, and then I will shut up.
What happens if Russia does build an army in StP? We can't quite guarantee
that won't happen. There will be hell to pay. That army will bounce
around in Scandinavia, and it will take several of our units to eliminate
it.
However, if I am in the North Sea (tired, broken record), then I could go
to Norway and you could send one fleet to Finland and we cut off the
Russian army and destroy it in StP before it causes trouble.
Let's hope that doesn't happen.
OK. Now I shut up. Please send a brief response before the moves are due.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
My number one goal is to keep Russia from getting an army into STP.
Because I can see the problems that it'll cause, just as you point
out.
I'm trying to get Russia to retreat there. I also feel that he has
to. I can't imagine that he's made peace with Austria, because that
army in UKR HAS to go to SEV or MOS (I suppose RUM is a remote
possibility) Russia should hang onto WAR. If he doesn't lose anything
else or he also picks up BUD then he'll build. But not if he loses
STP.
Summing up.
.He can't afford to lose STP, but building there isn't supremely
important. He could always build in MOS.
But then I'm always wrong
Fredd
Message from France to England
Wingo:
As I wait for the fall campaign, I have some idle time to
review the history of the wars. One thing that jumped
out at me was:
>Movement results for Fall of 1902. (titleist.005)
>England: Army Belgium SUPPORT German Army Munich ->
>Burgundy. (*void*)
>Movement results for Spring of 1903. (titleist.008)
>England: Army Belgium SUPPORT German Army Munich ->
>Burgundy. (*void*)
Do you and Germany have some game going where you render
your army in Belgium as useless? It is too bad that he
never takes you up on your offer. It would have succeed
last move. One would think with the increased level of
communication that you two would have straightened
out such an important point of cooperation. :-)
In the Fall of 1901, Austria stabbed Russia.
In the Spring of 1902, Italy betrayed Turkey and
England (and perhaps Germany) betrayed France
In the Fall of 1902, Germany semi-betrayed Russia
In the Spring of 1903, Italy stabbed Austria
It has been an eventful game so far. I wonder who will
be the next person to receive the knife?
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well once again I find myself without a clear sense of how things will go in
the south. I've been courted by Italy (who wants Ser S Tri), and by Austria
(who wants Ser S Vie-Tri), and by Russia (who wants Ser S Gal-Bud). Who'd
have guessed I'd be this popular all of a sudden. I'm still not sure which
way to jump, and I'm hoping for some further press that will guide my way. If
nothing else I'll just flip a coin or something. Now to find a 3-sided coin!
How have your discussions with Italy gone? He's still given me no indication
if he intends to support France or attack him. I hope your discussions along
that line have gone well.
Best of luck in the results, and don't hesitate to write with any thoughts.
Ali
Message from Master to all
Just a reminder: please submit moves today. We have another extension
coming up and I'd like to get in the moves, retreats, and builds if
we can before his return.
Doug
PS: which player was it? Could the departing power please remind me?
Message from England to France
>In the Fall of 1901, Austria stabbed Russia.
>
>In the Spring of 1902, Italy betrayed Turkey and
>England (and perhaps Germany) betrayed France
>
>In the Fall of 1902, Germany semi-betrayed Russia
>
>In the Spring of 1903, Italy stabbed Austria
>
>It has been an eventful game so far. I wonder who will
>be the next person to receive the knife?
Interesting that you didn't count England "stabs" France. Neither would
I. By my definition, and perhaps yours, that wasn't a stab.
Ivy
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>How have your discussions with Italy gone? He's still given me no indication
>if he intends to support France or attack him. I hope your discussions along
>that line have gone well.
Italy is going to the Western Med with the blessings of both France and
me. He has promised France to help him. He has explored dividing France
with me. Given his history, I don't think Italy's word means a thing. We
won't know what he will do until he does it.
Good luck with your decision.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Wingo:
>>In the Spring of 1902, Italy betrayed Turkey and
>>England (and perhaps Germany) betrayed France
>Interesting that you didn't count England "stabs"
>France. Neither would I. By my definition, and
>perhaps yours, that wasn't a stab.
Yes, I did not call it a stab. We did not really have a
long history of working together as allies. But I
certainly called it a betrayal. You did make quite a few
promises about our future together and led me to
believe in that. Your attack was a betrayal to those
promises and that feeling of good will. I listed Germany
as only perhaps betraying me because he made few
promises and I never really believed any of them anyway.
He was probably more in the attack category.
I would say that a stab is worse than a betrayal. But
neither are nice and good :-) The next step down is an
attack, which is not positive either, but certain a
lesser degree of evilness. They are certainly not as
much fun as trust, but all necessary elements of the
game, nevertheless.
Thanks for relieving my boredom for a short while. I
would wish you good luck tonight, but as I expect that
you are still attack me, I will refrain. I would instead
wish Germany good luck, but he probably does not need it.
Next year he will collect St. Petes, probably Warsaw and
maybe a French center.
Le DAUPHIN
Austria: Fleet Aegean Sea → Greece (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Vienna → Trieste (*cut*)
Austria: Army Ukraine → Sevastopol
Austria: Army Vienna → Trieste (*bounce*)
England: Army Belgium SUPPORT German Army Munich → Burgundy
England: Fleet Irish Sea → English Channel
England: Fleet London → North Sea
England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Irish Sea → English Channel
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Brest → English Channel (*bounce*)
France: Army Burgundy → Belgium (*bounce, dislodged*)
France: Army Gascony → Spain (*bounce*)
France: Army Picardy SUPPORT Army Burgundy → Belgium
France: Fleet Portugal → Spain (south coast) (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Baltic Sea → Livonia
Germany: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Austrian Army Budapest → Galicia (*void*)
Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Russian Fleet Livonia → St Petersburg (south coast)
Germany: Army Munich → Burgundy
Germany: Army Prussia → Warsaw (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT English Army Belgium
Italy: Army Albania SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Ionian Sea
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Army Trieste SUPPORT Russian Army Galicia → Budapest (*cut*)
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Western Mediterranean
Russia: Army Galicia → Budapest (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Livonia → St Petersburg (south coast)
Russia: Army Warsaw HOLD
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Greece → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Serbia SUPPORT Italian Army Trieste
Turkey: Army Smyrna → Constantinople (*bounce*)
|