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Italy: Builds 2 units
Turkey: Builds 1 unit
Message from England to all
Hats off to Austria, for he is one of us.
Most of the rest of us will be joining you in good time, my friend.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Austria to all
> Most of the rest of us will be joining you in good time, my friend.
The Archduke fled the capital, and escaped in the confusion; from time to
time, I will pass on his messages and comments. At the moment, he is still
trying to familiarize himself with his new accomodations.
Miranda, for Austria-Hungary, by the Grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
Might I suggest Lvn-GoB-Swe this Spring? I don't think you can
afford a two-front war at this point, and I'd much rather focus on
regaining Sev than on defending StP, and forcing you out of Lvn.
Nick.
Message from France to all
France wishes the Best to Archduke Ferdinand.
May he enjoy his retirement. We shall be thinking of
him.
Also please give our best to Felicia. We enjoyed our
conversations with her.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
Good old Italy has done it again. Using his favorite weapon, the lie, he
has turned on Turkey and used me in the process.
There was an agreement in which Turkey was supposed to get Budapest and
Sevastopol, and Italy was supposed to get Vienna and Spain. Yes
Spain! Italy brought me into the deal. I was supposed to vacate MAO
voluntarily so that Italy could walk into Spain. I liked this, because at
this point I would take anything that reduced the French strength.
But Italy crossed everybody. He let France keep Spain. Italy did help
Turkey into Budapest, but only so that he could get Serbia. The Ionian was
supposed to go west against France, but instead went to the
Aegean. Tyrolia was supposed to go to Piedmont, but went to Trieste.
Now I wonder if Italy ever intended to attack France in the first
place. He had probably been leading me on for several seasons. Italy's
style is now so clear. Lie and stab. We all do it on critical occasions,
but he does it annually. Something to remember if we ever get in a
non-gunboat game with him.
France, meanwhile, is joyous. He believes that his position with Italy is
solid now.
Anyway, you can see that I continue to uphold our friendship. I could have
taken Holland but to what end? An ally is worth several centers any
day. It looks to me like we have to consider Turkey as some kind of
partner and Italy, France, and Russia as the enemy. Perhaps you and Turkey
can finish off Russia together.
As you can guess I could fill the library of Congress with notes from
France and Russia begging me to attack you. Old notes, new notes. The
theme rarely changes. They don't care about me, of course, they just see
their only future in a war between us.
It seems to me that the year that we lost due to my Nth move has come and
gone, and we now once again find ourselves at France's doorstep. The
difference is that this time he only has two armies and his weakness is on
land. Penetrating Burgundy will be easy. Which way is best?
If Italy builds an army in Venice, it will got to Tyrolia immediately. I
don't think you want a French army in Burgundy that would work with an
Italian army in Tyrolia.
Watch our for Ukraine->Moscow, because Russia can support StP from
Moscow. Another possibility for you to consider is a shift of armies
Hol->Ruh->Mun->Sil. That would postpone Burgundy for a turn, but give you
a stronger play against Russia.
Lots of choices.
Oh, yes, welcome back. Hope you had a good holiday.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
Can't believe that I'm not building. I actually never considered the
moves that Russia made. Although I doubt that i would have changed
anything if I had. DEN, HOL, and MUN had to be protected.
I wonder what Italy will build. I would expect an army in VEN. On the
other hand an army there will draw my attention. Italy will have to take
on Turkey big time now. Can he afford to have me battling south?
Probably not.
If I were him I'd build two fleets. Send one of them west to start
taking France apart.
Like I said the problem with the fleet in the north sea is getting it
out of there. Just look where I've had to go to protect my territory.
I'm getting real tired of pussy footing around. You're totally
correct. I can bust in on BUR. That's my intention.
What do you think of these moves?
RUH - BUR supported by MUN
BEL s ruh - bur
nth - lon
hol s bel
To be blunt, we're screwing around while Italy is gaining a big lead.
I'm worried that Italy will take over Turkey while I'm trying to get
through an old and tired Russia.
The bottom line is that I'm still with you, but I won't be if the fleet
remains in the North Sea for even one more turn. To be perfectly
straightforward if that fleet is still there after the next turn, I will
attack you.
Luckily I have a solution to all of this. Instead of moving to London
move to Norway. Then in the fall support me to STP. In the fall I'll
move DEN to SWE.
At the same time I'll be in Ruhr. France will probably have retreated
BUR to GAS. The probable fall move will be to support BEL to PIC, while
I move HOl out and get it into the action again.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Russia
Nick.
First might I congratulate you on a good guess. Funny I hadn't even
considered that you would move that way. Oh well, guess wrong one move,
guess right the next.
> Might I suggest Lvn-GoB-Swe this Spring? I don't think
> you can afford a two-front war at this point, and I'd much
> rather focus on regaining Sev than on defending StP, and
> forcing you out of Lvn.
That fleet in the North Sea certainly is getting old isn't it? Like I
said to Ivy, where would I be if he hadn't moved in there. (I'd probably
have WAR and STP, and he'd have at least one center from France)
Unfortunately there are other factors to consider when talking about
turning on England. The big one right now is Italy. Depending on what
he builds he must be considered a serious threat to take out Turkey.
Therefore I would not want to weaken Turkey by letting you 'bother' him
in the south.
I guess I'll have to continue my assault on STP. (as weak as it's been
so far.)
Fredd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
How many times are you going to let Italy stab you?
Ivy has suggested that we combine our forces and finish off Russia.
That seems like a good plan to me. However, it's my opinion that you're
still working with Nick. Do you have units to spare on a northern
campaign, and is that the way that you wish to go?
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
R.
Do my eyes decieve me, or did you just stab Turkey again? If so, it
seems to be working for you.
Unfortunately you are now the 800 lb gorilla. I wonder if everyone will
turn on you. I, for one, certainly hope that I don't see an army in
TYR again, soon.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
B:
It's fun to walk away from this game for a weekend, then come back to
find that a move has processed.
This time it looks like:
Italy has stabbed Turkey again. I don't know about you, but I'll never
trust Italy as far as I can throw him.
England is still in the North Sea. (One of these days....)
I'm beginning to fear an Italian victory. He can take BUD next turn.
Turkey is totally out of position, to defend much else well. There is no
threat to Italy from the west (or north). I'm tied up with an inferior
Russia.
Yep Italy looks pretty strong right now. Of course, that will probably
change after the next moves.
I guess that I have one or two reasons to still stick with England.
1) Continuity. Just as I would never trust Italy, I believe that
sticking with your partners is the way to victory.
2) England can support me into STP in the fall if he moves that fleet to
NWY this spring.
On the other hand. A FG alliance could do the following.
1) One of us could take BEL immediately, destroying the English army in
the process.
2) On a stab I could slip into the North Sea myself, and take EDI in the
fall.
3) France is the only possibility of applying pressure to Italy.
Specifically what do you think about these moves?
Spring
England
F NTH - NWY
nothing else matters. as
France
brest - eng
bur - bel supported by pic
por - spain (SC) (Needed to protect MAR as a German army in BUR is a
real possibility)
MAO s bre- eng
Italy
Western Med s MAO
GER
ruh s hol
mun - tyr
den - north sea
Fall
I'm not sure. Certainly I'd like to see pressure put on Italy, but I
don't see how right now. I definitely want to see that build be a
fleet in MAR. We'll bring your other three fleets mostly north.
England will still have three fleets. That is unless I can also take
NWY. But I don't see a real possibility for that. Unless Russia would
cooperate. But I remember a the start of the game what it was like to
get Nick to agree to anything.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>Can't believe that I'm not building. I actually never considered the
>moves that Russia made. Although I doubt that i would have changed
>anything if I had. DEN, HOL, and MUN had to be protected.
I never did either. If I were Germany, and if I had noticed the
possibility, I would have risked Munich and entered Silesia->Warsaw in
order to cut the possible support. That guarantees StP while risking
Munich. At worst you come out even, but you probably gain.
>I wonder what Italy will build. I would expect an army in VEN. On the
>other hand an army there will draw my attention. Italy will have to take
>on Turkey big time now. Can he afford to have me battling south?
>Probably not.
No, both Italy and Turkey will be after your friendship. Italy will want
you to be neutral, for he has a good edge over Turkey. Turkey may be
sufficiently in need of help that you may be able to persuade him to help
you against Russia.
>What do you think of these moves?
>RUH - BUR supported by MUN
>BEL s ruh - bur
>nth - lon
>hol s bel
My first reaction is that your own alternative below is superior.
>Luckily I have a solution to all of this. Instead of moving to London
>move to Norway. Then in the fall support me to STP. In the fall I'll
>move DEN to SWE.
This seems pretty good to me.
It would require only one adjustment -- I'm thinking as I type here -- We
would have to bounce in the North Sea with your Denmark and my
Channel. Otherwise you have a stab that gives you two of my centers. I
never had that great an opportunity against you. With this bounce, if you
take Belgium then I should be able to arrange for France to get most of my
other centers.
The downside is that I may lose the Channel to France with this bounce, but
that is far from certain.
>At the same time I'll be in Ruhr.
Burgundy, I think you mean.
>France will probably have retreated
>BUR to GAS. The probable fall move will be to support BEL to PIC, while
>I move HOl out and get it into the action again.
OK, let's both look at all of this a little more carefully. In the
meantime it will be interesting to hear what Turkey and Italy say.
One day, I swear, I will be handing over Norway to you as suggested long,
long, ago. Then we break out the champaign.
Ivy
Message from Italy to Germany
> Do my eyes decieve me, or did you just stab Turkey again?
>
Let's just say, he won't be pleased with my moves. But what he suggested I
move wasn't very good for Italy's future.
> If so, it seems to be working for you.
That's yet to be determined. I actually stabbed Turkey with anyone's
knowledge and not expecting any assistance. It was a very difficult choice
to make especially since I knew he would be getting a build out of the deal
as well.
> Unfortunately you are now the 800 lb gorilla. I wonder if everyone will
> turn on you.
Everyone? Doubtful. Somebody other Turkey? Certainly possible.
I was somewhat banking on your earlier message about GF vs E. I would move
in at the appropriate time to keep France busy while you mopped up England.
My war with Turkey will take quite a bit of effort and time. That's the
downside. The upside is, I don't have to completely eliminate him, just
keep him tucked away in his corner. I should have several units at my
disposal free to do various French spy maneuvers.
> I, for one, certainly hope that I don't see an army in TYR again, soon.
I currently have an army build ordered but it will not by moving to Tyrolia.
It will most likely take residence in Trieste as I evict Turkey from
Idalia's homeland.
Peace with Germany is an absolute requirement for my success and I will do
anything to maintain that peace.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
First it was PB, now just B. Well as long as you write
you can shorten my name to whatever your like. Skip it
altogether if you want.
Yes, Italy did betray Turkey again. Hence, I expect
peace between him and myself. I will not threaten him
until
my situation with England is resolved. This can be best
accomplished by my working with you to eliminate him,
but I can also settle for an alliance with him where his
forces shift to Scandinavia and North Germany.
>I believe that sticking with your partners is the way
>to victory.
I thought that you believe that there would be many
betrayals, especially between EFG in this game. I was
the one looking for a long term partner, remember. :-)
I still am.
<3) France is the only possibility of applying pressure
to Italy.
This is the only thing that I have going for me.
I also told Ivy that if France is not allowed to put
pressure on Italy soon, he will get to the point where he
will be large enough to almost guarantee himself to be
the largest member of any draw, hence the winner. I
believe that it will be too difficult for the two of you
to eliminate me in time. Therefore I suggest that one of
you side with me to eliminate the other, allow me to get
to Italy before Turkey is effectively eliminated and
cannot claw at his back if Italy is forced to turn and
fight.
I am certainly willing to attack Belgium. I would
appreciate support from Holland as well. I think that
this would not be an unreasonable request. I would
probably use my fleets to mount some sort of attack on
England and at the same time, defend my rear territory.
With the appropriate moves, you could easily take Norway
in the fall. GoB -> Swe, Den -> Ska (or Nth), Mun
-> Kie.
I may also be able to help influence Russia if we are
working together. He and I have been kindred spirits
lately, so we have gotten along well.
It is too bad that you could not find yourself trusting
me last turn. I could have taken Belgium and you could
have taken St. Petes (Sil -> War). You instead choose to
partially trust England and leave Holland at risk.
When will you let me know if you are deciding to side
with France?
--Prince Boar
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
> It would require only one adjustment -- I'm thinking as I
> type here -- We would have to bounce in the North Sea with
> your Denmark and my Channel. Otherwise you have a stab that
> gives you two of my centers. I never had that great an
> opportunity against you. With this bounce, if you
> take Belgium then I should be able to arrange for France to
> get most of my other centers.
>
> The downside is that I may lose the Channel to France with
> this bounce, but that is far from certain.
Well I did see the possibility of the move to NTH. Actually considered
it also. Mainly because I just wanted to say "Now you know why your
move to the North Sea caused such a reaction from me"
I think that I'd rather not have you go to Norway if it's going to mean
that your fleets will retreat further. That's not going to get us
anything. Unfortunately the same problem occurs if you move NTH
anywhere, and I know about it.
We might be reaching an impass here. I want to get things moving. I
can't while you're in the North Sea. But if you move out you leave me a
stab opportunity. (and how many times have I said how difficult it
would be to get back out of NTH?)
How about moving to Yorkshire? You can still protect EDI that way. Or
better yet the Norwegian Sea? Then you can protect EDI and NWY.
Depending on how the guesswork goes.
Message from Germany to Italy
> Peace with Germany is an absolute requirement for my
> success and I will do anything to maintain that peace.
Would that include helping England against France? Or me against
France?
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
> Yes, Italy did betray Turkey again. Hence, I expect
> peace between him and myself. I will not threaten him
> until my situation with England is resolved.
Certainly Italy wants peace with both of us. He'll need everything that
he's got to take on Turkey.
> When will you let me know if you are deciding to side
> with France?
Tough one. England has already spotted the stab opportunity I'd have if
he moved out of the North Sea. Therefore that stab opportunity has
pretty much evaporated. Which leaves you with picking up Belgium, and
me with.... Certainly your moves of attacking Norway instead of STP
are feasible. The Pandora's Box that that opens is Russia. What's he
going to do? I doubt if the answer is to just sit around.
I'm not ready to commit to you yet. Maybe we can work something out
before the next moves. Right now what we have on the table goes
something like this.
You get Belgium.
I switch from attacking STP to attacking Norway.
You're not really willing to make any moves against Italy. (Even with a
build that you get from Belgium)
I have a stab opportunity, but there's not much to it.
Would you switch alliances for the above?
Fredd
Message from Germany to Russia
Nick:
Don't reject this immediately. It's better to think it over.
I can do the following.
I can leave Warsaw and Moscow alone in exchange for you handing STP over
to me.
Sounds outlandish doesn't it. Why give up a center? Well what good is
it doing you? Your fleet is bottled up. Disbanding it loses you
basically nothing. What it gains is the ability to move your other two
units south. As it is you have to use one of those units to support
STP.
Now would be the time to do this. I would move my army onto STP. (away
from WAR)
Certainly both Italy and Turkey are bidding for your favor. One of
those two can get you your next build.
I really think that this could be a win win. Right now you're tied up.
You're just waiting for the victor of I vs T to take you out when
they're ready. This deal frees up your two units. It's a win for me as
I can concentrate in the west. It also gives me a build. Which I won't
use against you.
Think it over.
BTW a convoy to Finland is superior to a convoy to Sweden.
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>Right now what we have on the table goes
>something like this.
>You get Belgium.
>I switch from attacking STP to attacking Norway.
>You're not really willing to make any moves against
>Italy. (Even with a
>build that you get from Belgium)
>I have a stab opportunity, but there's not much to it.
>Would you switch alliances for the above?
My answer to you is Yes, if you are thinking long term
rather than short term. In the long term, I am better
position to be of help against Italy, and much sooner
than England is. (My home centers are also in a less
dangerous position than his.)
It will take a longer time to eliminate me than it will
him. We can take England down to 3 centers this year.
He will fall fast. (Medium term advantage)
The short term is not all that bad as well. England is
not willing to help you get St. Petes, therefore you are
likely not to get it. You are likely to get Norway. The
only way for England to stop it is for him to be in
Norway and the North Sea. If he does that shift, I will
be in the Channel and not him. Hence, I will break his
support for Norway.
I will put my new force in the Mediterranean. It may not
be able to launch an attack on Italy, but it will at
least get his attention and perhaps slow down his
progress on Turkey. You can also shift your army in
Livonia to Prussia and then Silesia to start putting a
little pressure on Italy as well.
If I am being attack by you and England, then I will not
be putting any units in the Mediterranean to make Italy
nervous. I will sell out in the North. In fact, Italy
may end up growing even larger as he is likely to come
over and take his share. These may get him to 16
centers, or perhaps the victory depending on how things
eventually go in Russia.
Finally, I can keep Russia out of your back door. He
will be simply happy to have relieve from your attack;
and he will focus on getting the rest of his homeland
back. This will give us time to take out England and
give you the forces you need to then Finish off Russia
without all the concerns at your back.
I think that your long term choice is obvious - France!
Completely unbiasedly yours, ;-)
--Prince Boar
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I was thinking about this game last night after I turned off the
computer. What a lousy partnership we have. I have six units, you have
five. We still haven't made a dent in France, and we're actually going
in the other direction.
The reality is that we should have all the other powers banding
together to stop us because we're so damm tough. But what's happening
is that we're impotent while the stab king is gaining a lead.
Well I for one am tired of this. I'm willing to get my ass in gear.
My question is; are you?
I would like to move my fleet in DEN into the Baltic, to counter any
Russia move from Warsaw. (This is how pathetic this has become, I'm
worried about Russia when he should be on the verge of elimination from
me)
I also will blast BUR out of the way. My goals in France remain the
same. However, time has run out and if I have to take a French center
to knock him down, so that you can push in then so be it.
What I really have to do (and quick) is engage Italy. Turkey will not
survive. Although I expect a long battle. But without help I don't see
Turkey holding out the Italian.
What are you willing to commit to?
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar
Yes I think that you're a little biased. I'll send a more complete
response tonight, after Russia gets back to me.
I was hoping that you'd have something more substantial to offer, than
reasoning.
Freddd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
It's my belief that Italy can run over you (eventually) unless you get
some help.
This is not part of my plan for the German victory.
Unfortunately, I can't send any units south this turn.
There is however another way to add two units to your arsenal
immediately. They are sitting in WAR and UKR.
I've made an offer to Russia that I'll leave WAR and MOS alone if
he'll
give up STP. (Which doesn't matter really as his fleet there can't do
anything anyway)
You might want to offer him some builds if he'll help you out.
I can send a unit to TYR in the fall. I'm sure that it'll be too late
then.
Fredd
Message from Italy to Germany
> > Peace with Germany is an absolute requirement for my
> > success and I will do anything to maintain that peace.
>
> Would that include helping England against France? Or me against
> France?
>
Either. Both. Your choice.
Roberto
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>I was hoping that you'd have something more substantial
>to offer, than reasoning.
What is it that you want me to offer?
I am agreeing to take Belgium from Burgundy, so you can
clear out Munich and feel safe.
I am agreeing to attack the Channel, even if that risks
MAO.
I am agreeing to put breaking Nth Sea support for Norway
over any of my needs for a possible French fleet in the
Channel.
I am agreeing to build a fleet in Marseilles, per your
request.
I have suggest to Russia that we should consider working
with you. I can put in more effort but hesitated to
reveal to him our discussions.
I am very willing to discuss any long term distribution
of SC. I have in the past agreed to transferring Belgium
to you, I am still willing to do so.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
My work load is suddenly picked up considerably, so my responses may not be
as timely as before. Fortunately, we have a lot of time. Let me respond
to your two e-mails one at a time.
>I think that I'd rather not have you go to Norway if it's going to mean
>that your fleets will retreat further.
I had never considered Norway myself; I was just responding to your idea.
>Mainly because I just wanted to say "Now you know why your
>move to the North Sea caused such a reaction from me"
One difference though. When you were worried about a stab from me, you had
6 units to my 5, and I would have only been able to pick up one of your
centers with the stab. In the current situation, when it is still 6 to 5
in your favor, if you entered the North Sea you would get two of my
centers, making it 8 to 3. That's not just a stab; that is death.
Fortunately, you are still coming up with reasonable alternatives.
>How about moving to Yorkshire? You can still protect EDI that way. Or
>better yet the Norwegian Sea?
The Norwegian Sea works for me. Anything that does not expose me to an
immediate loss of two centers. We would still need the bounce in the North
Sea this turn, so that I would only risk Belgium. But with your army in
Burgundy, we would be once again well under way against France, and our
mutual trust would take a big leap.
*********************
From your second note:
>What are you willing to commit to?
That's a fair question. Without thinking too hard about tactics for a
moment, let's look the general strategic situation. Several cases:
A. I could risk the loss of two centers. For example, by simply vacating
the North Sea.
B. I could risk the loss of one center. For example, I could risk Ruhr by
vacating the North Sea while we bounce there.
C. We both could risk a center. For example, I could stay in Nth for
exactly one more turn, while you move Den->Bal. Ruhr is at risk and so is
either Holland or Denmark, but not both.
There must be other permutations, but you get the idea. We have lived a
long time with one center under risk, whether it be Holland or Belgium or
both. Stabs are rarely made for one center.
Anyway, here is my answer to your question. I will commit to any set of
moves that does not risk the loss of two centers. I have not had the time
to examine the tactics in detail, but something should prove to be mutually
satisfying.
Most cordially,
Ivy
All of this is highly temporary. Once we are inside France againthis fall
our trust will increase.
Message from Master to all
Okay, I think my email is back. I got nothing in or out of
masseyd@btv.ibm.com for four or five days, then I got a flood
of about 300 mails in the last hour (in reverse chronological
order, for some reason).
Anyway, everything seems to be back to normal on my end.
I think we have everyone back from Labor Day vacation in the
U.S. and are ready to continue with the F1904B deadline
tonight.
Doug
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
Good to hear from you. Indeed, it seems I'll need to make amends with
Russia, since IR cooperation right now would kill me quickly. That will
mean giving him Sev. If that appeases him, and you don't attack him, then
he and I could probably gain the upper hand against Italy, though it would
take a while and Russia would surely prosper from it. Or, Russia might
attack me anyway, in which case he'll still grow, and Italy will become fat
from my carcass.
Italy has not a single threat on the board, and is already the largest
power. I had hoped I could at least keep up, but it was not to be, and I'll
probably end the year at 4 or 5 units. Unless *somebody* else attacks him,
he'll have gained most of the south by the time the western triangle is
resolved. If you can get into Tyr, that would be great, but Italy's already
shown a strong desire to control the center of the board, and I fully expect
A Ven, so it may take more than that to turn the tide. [Don't get me wrong:
any help at all would, obviously, be more than welcome.]
The current board position looks like the makings of an IFG, which would
essentially mean FG vs. E, IR vs. T. That's going to mean you'll need to
build fleets to (a) attack England, and (b) defend against all the French
fleets that will be on your border once England is gone. France may turn
against Italy, but so far they seem rather joined at the hip, do they not?
That in turn means you may be army-weak in a period where Russia may have
grown from gains against Turkey. Whatever you decide, I strongly urge you
to seriously consider these ramifications.
In any case, the one thing I really want from you is a little more press.
;^) I certainly understand your desire to keep your cards close to the
vest, and I definitely urge you to do exactly that in your dealings with
Italy. He has already shown a strong tendency to stab based on his
foreknowledge of his ally's moves; he's done that 3 times already in the
game. So by all means, I urge you not to let Roberto in on your moves any
more than is absolutely necessary. But that said, I don't think it's unfair
to ask for some notion of what German goals and intentions are, and I have
always wished for greater communication between us.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Master to Austria, England, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Just signing on to encourage End Of Year statements from the players,
especially from Austria (who I think mentioned that he'd be forthcoming
with one soon, anyway).
Thank you for playing Austria; I hope you'll stay on as an observer.
Feel free to continue to affect play in a verbal manner, if you wish.
Doug
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
>I congratulate you on a good guess. I hadn't even
>considered that you would move that way.
It wasn't really a guess. You had to order
GoB S Lvn-StP, or Lvn S GoB-StP, and the Army would
be much more useful to you there, so War S Lvn-StP
was the only possible defense of StP. I expected
that Sil-War would cut the support, but felt that
I had to make the attempt for "political" reasons.
> > Might I suggest Lvn-GoB-Swe this Spring
>Italy must be considered a serious threat to take out Turkey. Therefore I
>would not want to weaken Turkey by letting you 'bother' him in the south.
It remains to be seen who I'll support in the
south. I doubt that Turkey will be as foolish as
Austria, and continue to attack me as Italy rolls
over him, and given freedom from a Northern threat,
I could as easily move War-Gal and take Bud from
Italy, (since he'll take it from Turkey this year).
>I guess I'll have to continue my assault on STP.
This would keep me from getting involved in the
south, but unless you bring another Unit east, or get
some unlikely Turkish cooperation, you won't be able
to hold it.
>I can leave Warsaw and Moscow alone in exchange for you handing STP over to
>me. Now would be the time to do this. I would move my army onto STP.
>(away from WAR)
The only way I'd consider it would be if you did it
with the Fleet. A StP threatens Moscow.
>BTW a convoy to Finland is superior to a convoy to Sweden.
Not really. From Swe you threaten Nwy, and can
cover Den as you move your Fleet to Hel or Ska, and
GoB-Swe. Plus from Swe you don't threaten StP. 8-)
Nick.
Message from Germany to Russia
> >I can leave Warsaw and Moscow alone in exchange for you handing STP
> >over to
> >me. Now would be the time to do this. I would move my army onto STP.
> >(away from WAR)
>
> The only way I'd consider it would be if you did it
> with the Fleet. A StP threatens Moscow.
Seems fair. I will accept that. Although I'll point out that this
leaves me with an army in LVN, which threatens both Moscow AND Warsaw.
I imagine that you're thinking that I should convoy it to Sweden. That
would definitely mean that I'm attacking England. I'm not sure that
that's the way that I want to go. I'm not sure that it isn't. At any
rate if I convoy the army out of there in the spring, what motivation
would you have to go through with our bargain. This requires more
thought and discussion. Another drawback to the convoy is that it shows
England that I'm attacking, but half of my fleets are sitting far away
from him. I don't think he'll get too worried.
>
> >BTW a convoy to Finland is superior to a convoy to Sweden.
>
> Not really. From Swe you threaten Nwy, and can
> cover Den as you move your Fleet to Hel or Ska, and
> GoB-Swe. Plus from Swe you don't threaten StP. 8-)
>
My point was that I also threaten STP. ;-) Hmmm Maybe that's the
compromise?
Fredd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
Sorry if I've seemed silent. It's on purpose. We really didn't have a
lot to discuss, until now. I like this game, but not to the tune of
spending 2 hours a night reading and writing email.
I will give a look at my overall strategy.
I don't know what to do with England and France. I've been going with
Ivy. What has that gotten us so far. We have 5 English units vs 5
French units. With a little help from me France should already be on
the way out. That is certainly not the case. The problem remains the
English Fleet in the North Sea. Turn after turn it's sitting there.
Why? Certainly there is an excuse for it now, but there really wasn't
when it went in. Ivy apprised my of his intentions to move there. I
was totally against it. For two reasons. 1) It threatened HOL and DEN.
2)We were disengaged on that front, once we are engaged it's very
difficult to withdraw. This prediction has come to pass. Ivy is
very resistant to withdrawing from the North Sea, because of the stab
possibility from my DEN fleet. (with good reason) So he wants to set
up a bounce to keep the North Sea free. In other words, another turn
wasted. Hell he could even get booted out of the Channel if France plays
it right.
This all is crap. I need an ally would will make some bold moves. At
this pace Italy will have won the game before England breaks in on
France.
So I'm a little pissed about England's play. Therefore, switching
alliances to France seems like an option. Unfortunately, France isn't
really in any kind of position to be of use. I'd like him to at least
spook Italy, but if we combine forces and attack England he'll need all
of his fleets in the north to be successful. That'll go over well later
on. We all know what happens when France takes out England with a lot
of fleets, he continues on into Germany.
I don't know what I'll do about E and F. Maybe they'll attack me, and
solve that problem :-(
My major worry right now is Italy. There's only one way that I see
that he can be stopped. That's if you and Russia combine forces.
That's why I offered to leave Russia alone if he turns STP over to me.
I also intend to use that build to build an army and move south with
it. In other words, we get rid of a Russian fleet which is worthless,
and replace it with a German army sitting on Italys northern border.
(It just takes a year to get there)
Russia and I are working on the details of that plan.
Fredd
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
How about, Lvn-StP, GoB-Swe, StP/SC-Fin, War-Lvn? Followed by Swe S
StP-Nwy, Lvn S Fin-StP/SC, perhaps?
Just thinking,
Nick.
Message from Italy to all
And adjustments haven't processed because ......
Message from Germany to Russia
>
> How about, Lvn-StP, GoB-Swe, StP/SC-Fin, War-Lvn? Followed by Swe S
> StP-Nwy, Lvn S Fin-StP/SC, perhaps?
Wow real moves. Great. I've been getting tired of all the generalized
talk from the others.
I like the first three moves. The fourth not as much.
As I just told Ali, my biggest worry is that Italy will win the game.
In fact, the only way that I see to stop him is if you and I work with
Turkey towards that goal. I was hoping that in resolving hostilities
between us that you'd be able to send both your armies to help Turkey,
immediately. I would even expect that Turkey will give back SEV if you
help out. (Ask him)
You are key here. I don't think that I'm going to be able to send my
Munich army south this turn. Although I intend to use the build (from
STP) to send at least one army south.
I do like the idea of LVN-STP, and GOB-SWE then STP-NWY supported by
SWE. What is of mild concern is leaving your fleet at my back. What
isn't good is not getting a friendly army into GAL. I can see that
Turkey's best move is BUL-BLA, RUM-BUL, BUD-RUM. This leaves GAL open.
We could really use your help in there.
I also see the possibility of a nasty stab from me, if you move both STP
and WAR off their centers. I'd say that I haven't been lying in the
past, but the truth is that given the opportunity to walk into two
centers, I'd probably lie my ass off for that. Therefore, I can't
expect you to move WAR south AND STP-FIN. Perhaps we can do one of
those in the spring, and one in the fall. I'd prefer getting the army
in WAR south ASAP. Perhaps you could do the following:
Spring.
WAR-GAL
UKR-MOS
STP hold
I suppose that I could still double cross you and take STP, but we're
discussing turning it over anyway. You'd also be in position to take
WAR back if I stabbed you by walking into WAR.
This deserves more thought.
Truthfully, I haven't decided that I should attack England, yet.
Fredd
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
> > >I was hoping that you'd have something more substantial
> >to offer, than reasoning.
> What is it that you want me to offer?
18 centers, of course. ;-)
>I am agreeing to build a fleet in Marseilles, per your
>request.
Ah, actually you had said 'force' in your last message. This is a good
clarification.
>
> I have suggest to Russia that we should consider working
> with you. I can put in more effort but hesitated to
> reveal to him our discussions.
I appreciate that you keep these discussions quiet. This game feels
like a broadcast game sometimes. It's caused me (and I think a couple
of others) to keep a lid on what we talk about.
>
> I am very willing to discuss any long term distribution
> of SC. I have in the past agreed to transferring Belgium
> to you, I am still willing to do so.
I think we both know what happens when France and Germany get together
to take out England, and France gets quite a few fleets up around the
English Isle. The next target is Germany. Plus I don't really want to
build fleets. Italy is the clear and present danger. German fleets can
do nothing to stop an Italian takeover.
You also know my greatest fear. That I'll have a strong and powerful
France at my back, down the road. Just look at the trouble England has
breaking in. On the other hand, Italy is already prepared to help me
against you if need be. But then who would take his word on anything.
Let's keep talking along these lines. Russia is the key here. I'm not
asking for your help in talking to him, I can do that well enough on my
own.
We'll have to take two from England by next fall for this to work, and
one of us will have to be in either the Channel or the North Sea.
A word of caution. Italy has stated that he won't be going to TYR if he
builds in VEN. If he does, there are two possibilites. 1)He lied - a
bad idea if he wants to stay on my good side (and he does) 2) Someone
told him that I was interested in moving to Munich. (that would be
you) My advice is to not tell Italy that I'm contemplating a move to
TYR.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
> My work load is suddenly picked up considerably, so my responses
> may not be as timely as before.
No problem. My opinion is that less is more in this game. Everyone has
their own agenda here. That agenda rarely matches anyone elses. If you
talk too much to someone, you'll soon get pissed at that guy because you
can never agree on anything.
> One difference though. When you were worried about a stab from me,
> you had 6 units to my 5, and I would have only been able to pick up
> one of your centers with the stab. In the current situation, when
> it is still 6 to 5 in your favor, if you entered the North Sea you
> would get two of my centers, making it 8 to 3. That's not just a
> stab; that is death.
Actually any of us can pick up two centers from the other in a quick
hurry. I could take two of yours right now, provided that certain
people help me out either through action or inaction. Obviously there's
the quick snatch of Belgium, but one of our friends has pointed out a
way that I can take Norway, guaranteed.
Just as certainly you can grab HOL, with France's help. Or swing NTH-SKA
and ENG-NTH, to grab DEN. Or both.
The reason that we don't do these things is that neither of us likes the
end result. That's a strong France. We both know that we'll be at war
with him that minute you or I get depleted. We also both know who
usually wins that war. Add in that Italy will probably have already
won, and I don't like the results of grabbing a quick center.
I'd like to stop talking about bouncing NTH. Once before we both moved
away simultaneously. I can do that again. How about you?
DEN - BAL and NTH - NWG seem the best moves. I don't think that we
have a turn to waste on that bounce.
Fredd
Italy: BUILD Fleet Naples
Italy: BUILD Army Venice
Turkey: BUILD Fleet Smyrna
Centers
England: 5
France: 5
Germany: 6
Italy: 8
Russia: 3
Turkey: 7
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