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Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
This is a riot. It also makes my head spin.
I'll look at it.
Ivy
>Look at this
>Norway takes SWE - gives you a build
>DEN and NWG bounce the North Sea.
>you can attack France somehow as he won't expect it now.
>I take STP - Russia can't dislodge me without your help.
>I take MOS or WAR with Turkey's help. I build one.
>I can stay in TYR and continue to harras Italy.
>Another option is that I can now move to PIE and on into MAR.
>
>This just keeps getting better.
Message from Italy to Germany
Ok, I have to ask, what's up with Tyrolia?
I figured somebody would come after me. I was disappointed to find out it
was you, if indeed the move to Tyrolia was meant as an aggressive move. I
will have to figure out a way to defend against however regardless of its
motive.
Looks to me like you made moves against both Russia and England. I didn't
think you'd also move to Tyrolia as well.
Anyway, I'd love to here your thoughts on the spring moves and hope we can
resolve the issue of Tyrolia once and for all.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
> To attack in all directions simultaneously of course.
I like your sense of conservatism :-)
>The benefit to me is that the North Sea is finally
>clear.
Congratulations. Of course, I would have been happier
with the Channel clear :-)
>Too bad that you supported BEL. :-(
Well, you did not expect me to be happy about your having
Belgium and St. Petes. My math tells me that is 5 units
for me, 8 units for you. And then you expected me to go
fight Italy without additional resources.
Bascially, you did not offer Belgium to me, so I had to
accept the only reasonable request/offer that I had. A
truce with England.
>I laughed at your comments about working with him a
> couple of days ago. It's like pulling teeth.
Well, some people, not France of course, have said the
same of you :-) :-)
>I hope that no matter what happens between EFG that
>you'll be able to put at least one fleet into the Med.
I was supposed to build one in Marseilles, remember.
>Therefore I now have two good reasons to support you to
>BEL. From BUR, and with only HOL, as RUH will be
>heading to MUN.
Now you are talking! I hope to hear you repeat this as
the deadline gets closer. I just might be able to build
that fleet in Marseilles.
> I guess that puts you in the drivers seat.
What a strange thought. It is certainly a location I
have never been.
--Prince Daupin
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
Well, you got StP. I hope it was worth losing Swe this year, and Den
and/or Hol next year.
Nick.
Message from Germany to Russia
> Well, you got StP. I hope it was worth losing Swe this year,
> and Den and/or Hol next year.
Actually I'm not worried about SWE. To lose that either Ivy or you would
have to support the other in. I can't imagine that you'll support Ivy
in. Nor do I see Ivy giving you a build.
I noticed that Turkey tried to vacate SEV. Too bad all of your units
tried to move north. You could have picked up SEV and had three armies
working to contain Italy. That would have been a task that everyone
would have left you alone to do, or supported your efforts. As it is
you're just in the way. I don't see that you have any friends right
now. What good are you to Turkey? None. Me? None. England? If
you'll support him to Sweden you'll be of use. Unfortunately that'll
give Ivy a build with which he can guard against French agression while
he takes out STP. It's unlikely that England will attack me. If he
does Italy will win the game. It's that simple.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
Once again USIN acted up and we have had a day of silence. I will consider
your offer, or some modification of it, but I want to hear from Russia and
France as well.
The modification I have in mind is Holland instead of Sweden, and next year
instead of this year. I see no reason to try Nor->Swe now when you can
bounce me, and our trust is shaky, to say the least.
However, you could now move Hol->Ruh, Ruh->Mun, and Tyr->Pie with little
risk. You know I would not try to take Holland this year, because the
attempt could backfire, and I could lose Belgium. By making the above
moves, you show me that you are still anti-France and Holland would be open
for me next year. I would simply use the Channel to support Belgium and
hold Iri as well.
Please give this some thought and then reply -- with modifications of your
own, if necessary.
In the meantime let's both see what our other neighbors can offer.
Ivy
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
> Actually I'm not worried about SWE. To lose that either Ivy or you
> would have to support the other in. I can't imagine that you'll support
> Ivy in. Nor do I see Ivy giving you a build.
Perhaps, or perhaps not. Given:
Germany: Army Holland -> Belgium. (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Denmark -> North Sea. (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Holland -> Belgium.
Ivy has no reason to let you build, so if he doesn't support me into Swe,
he'll certainly support me back into StP.
> I noticed that Turkey tried to vacate SEV. Too bad all of your units
> tried to move north. You could have picked up SEV and had three
> armies working to contain Italy.
Not with you ordering Lvn-Mos, GoB-Swe, I'd have been forced to
disband one, even if I picked up Sev.
> That would have been a task that everyone would have left you alone
> to do, or supported your efforts.
The minute you get out of Russia, I'll turn on Italy, but defending the
Motherland takes priority over giving support to Turkey.
> It's unlikely that England will attack me.
Right. Check your Spring moves again, and explain why Ivy won't
attack you. You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
Russia accidentally sent me a message that was intended for you.
> You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
I don't like taunting.
Ivy
Message from Germany to Russia
> Right. Check your Spring moves again, and explain why Ivy won't
> attack you. You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
Oddly enough I think that you're history. I would who is right.
Oh yeah. You would have had to disband that fleet. Which was half my
point.
Message from Germany to England
> Russia accidentally sent me a message that was intended for you.
>
> > You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
>
> I don't like taunting.
Yeah he sent that along to me. We've just been yelling at each other
in the last couple of presses. It started with his remarking on how
I'm finally in STP, and was it worth it since I'll lose Sweden and HOl
or Den. Not to be outdone I nailed him back with a bunch of
speculation on how many ways he could be eliminated. The above was his
reply.
In a way I like this better. I can be openly hostile to him. This is a
rift that'll never be patched.
In case you're interested, I pointed out that he's not helping Turkey
against Italy so why would Turkey work with him. Or for that matter
why would I work with him for the same reason, as I believe that Italy
will win this game unless someone gets a body on him. (See my move to
TYR.) I might have made him maddest though by pointing out that I just
couldn't imagine that he'd support you to Sweden. I'd bet money on that
one.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
> I will consider your offer, or some modification of it, but I want
> to hear from Russia and France as well.
Well France wants Belgium, as usual.
Good luck with Russia ;-) Although maybe I've pissed him off enough
that he'll support you into something.
> However, you could now move Hol->Ruh, Ruh->Mun, and Tyr->Pie with
> little risk. You know I would not try to take Holland this year,
> because the attempt could backfire, and I could lose Belgium.
I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you and France supported
each other last turn. BEL - HOL and PIC- BEL could be just what you
guys have in mind.
I'm still waiting to hear back from Turkey. This all turns if he'll
support me into WAR or MOS this year. If so (and I keep SWE and gain
STP) then I'd build two. Which means that I could afford to give up
something now, not later.
Your moves have merit, I'll wait for Turkey and get back to you.
What I'd like to do though is keep the North Sea open. To do that I
need to use DEN to bounce you from either NWG or ENG. Which means that
I can't cover SWE. Which makes that a better place to give up than
HOL.
Italy's pissed at me too. Turkey seems to be my only friend. sigh.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
> >Too bad that you supported BEL. :-(
> Well, you did not expect me to be happy about your having
> Belgium and St. Petes. My math tells me that is 5 units
> for me, 8 units for you. And then you expected me to go
> fight Italy without additional resources.
I hope you don't hold it against me if I try to win. The above would be
a formula for that. Which is why I never expected you to agree. I
was really trying to do an Italy.
>
> Bascially, you did not offer Belgium to me, so I had to
> accept the only reasonable request/offer that I had. A
> truce with England.
I would think that you guys have been working a lot closer for awhile
now. England has been inching my way for a couple of moves. Like I
said, I've seen that before.
> >I laughed at your comments about working with him a
> > couple of days ago. It's like pulling teeth.
> Well, some people, not France of course, have said the
> same of you :-) :-)
I think that we can say the same of all of us. It's rare that we can
find a win-win situation. It's almost always an advantage to someone.
And no one trusts anyone enough to let that happen. I suppose the
winner of this game will be the one who uses our paranoia to their
advantage. For instance, Ivy is totally paranoid. He could have been at
your throat a long time ago, but he was too busy making defensive
manuevers against me, while I was sending pratically everything that I
had east. HOL and DEN were wide open, but he couldn't muster the
courage to attempt to leave BEL open.
>
> >I hope that no matter what happens between EFG that
> >you'll be able to put at least one fleet into the Med.
> I was supposed to build one in Marseilles, remember.
It's not fall yet. I brought that up in the spring.
>
> >Therefore I now have two good reasons to support you to
> >BEL. From BUR, and with only HOL, as RUH will be
> >heading to MUN.
> Now you are talking! I hope to hear you repeat this as
> the deadline gets closer. I just might be able to build
> that fleet in Marseilles.
Naturally, I'm talking to Ivy still. Like I said at the start. I
wouldn't be surprised to see England allied with Germany one turn,
France the next, and Germany again.
Unfortunately he's pulling a Russia. I've given him a way that he can
build one this turn (without having to work with Russia) But he offered
counter moves. Ones that wouldn't have him building this turn. How
reasonable does that sound to you? Unless something changes I think
supporting you to BEL is still my best move. Course I'd really like
your build to be a fleet.
I think Russia's moves have pointed out that he's not going to help
Turkey. In that case either you or I have to, or Italy will win. I
don't see Turkey holding him alone. He'll be building every turn now.
Or at least he will if Turkey and I can't guess right with TYR and GAL.
I should point out that one of the moves that I can make with TYR is
PIE. But I'm sure you've seen that. I can't say that I won't go there.
But if I do moving down the Italian peninsula would be just as good a
move as going for MAR. And if we're working together, it'd be a much
better move.
>
> > I guess that puts you in the drivers seat.
> What a strange thought. It is certainly a location I
> have never been.
Unfortunately a lot of responsibility goes with the position. I see the
game winning threat from Italy. And I'm the only one (currently) doing
something about it. If I were to start losing units, where would I lose
them? Yep the one in TYR would be the first to go. I hate to make
threats like that, but that's the way that I play. I've never
understood players who continue to fight in one direction while someone
is nibbling away at them from behind. In those cases I always turn and
defend. If that means someone who's not attacking me wins, I can live
with that.
Talk to you Monday night.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
Life is not so beautiful.
The Tyrolia move is indeed meant as an aggressive move against you.
You know why of course. Nobody else is doing anything to halt your
takeover of Turkey. I figured that if I didn't do something, then
you'd win. I'm sure that you've considered this possibility yourself.
So it's nothing personal. I just can't win if you do.
> Looks to me like you made moves against both Russia and > England. I didn't think you'd also move to Tyrolia as well.
It was a tough call. I really wanted Russia to come down and help
Turkey against you, but he'd have none of it.
France asked me about it and my reply was that I decided to attack in
all directions. It'll probably backfire, but it sure beats all this
playing around.
>
> Anyway, I'd love to here your thoughts on the spring moves
> and hope we can resolve the issue of Tyrolia once and for
> all.
Ivy and I attemped a stab of each other simultaneously. He'd been
creeping toward me for a couple of moves, and wouldn't get out of the
North Sea. I've seen this type of behavior before. After the fact
I've found out he'd decided that since France had your help he couldn't
break through before you had pretty much dismantled Turkey. Hence EF
formed up. France is supposed to head your way. They're both supposed
to take me out. But considering how the pendulum swings, who knows what
will happen.
You might have made a mistake by becoming the 800 lb gorilla. Or it
might win you the game. Time will tell. For the moment I think that
we're antagonists. This could change. I'm burning no bridges (except
Russia's)
Fredd
Message from Russia to Germany
> Message from Germany to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > Right. Check your Spring moves again, and explain why Ivy won't
> > attack you. You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
>
> Oddly enough I think that you're history.
I've been history since Turkey failed to support me into Bud in '03,
if not before, but I'll lay you odds that you're eliminated before I am.
> Oh yeah. You would have had to disband that fleet. Which was half my
> point.
I would have had to disband the Fleet, and not been able to build that
third
Army you feel I so desparately need to attack Italy. Plus, it's doubtful
even now
that Turkey will be able to vacate Sev, so I could have easily ended up with
only
one Unit/Center. I offered you three different ways for us to disengage,
and you
refused them all, because you wanted me to commit suicide by throwing myself
at Italy while you took my Centers. I don't think you even had half a
point.
Nick.
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I understand, that you wanted to grab enough centers to
feel center, ala Italy. The problem is that Italy really
has real pressure on his borders. You are not as well
situated. Whether that means you should be bolder or
more conservative is for you to decide.
So, I need to wait until tonight for you to tell me
whether you will support me to Belgium? Of course, you
were supposed to get back to me last move also, but I
never heard from you.
So as I stated, I had to accept England's offer. Your
statement that England and I have been working together
for some time now is pretty ridiculous. He has been
attacking my centers and I have been attacking him. Not
very effective cooperation is it? Thanks for the light
chuckle.
I will be around.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
F:
I meant to write that Italy had *no* pressures on his
borders. I was in too big a hurry.
PB
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you and France supported
>each other last turn. BEL - HOL and PIC- BEL could be just what you
>guys have in mind.
I am very proud of that support from France. I pointed out to him with
precise logic that he had nothing to lose. If either you or I attacked
each other, then Burgundy was safe, and Picardy did not need to support
it. If you and I stayed allied, then Burgundy was lost even with support
form Picardy, because I would cut the support from the Channel. Thus, Pic
supp Bur was useless, and Pic supp Bel was risk free for France, and he
could have his choice of allies next turn. All true.
Now, though, the three of us are dancing around the new situation with
(from my point of view) all kinds of offers and counter offers being thrown
about.
As for Hol->Ruh->Bur plus Tyr-Pie, it was just a suggestion. I thought it
might be a good way to defend against France while inviting a renewed EG in
the spring. Also, it is really true that I would rather have Holland than
Sweden. Anyway, Russia does not want to support me into Sweden; he prefers
the opposite. Surprise, surprise.
Bel->Hol is not even being considered. If you did move Hol->Ruh->Bur, I
never expected you to tell me so in advance. Bel will hold with
support. I don't dare risk it. The only way I will lose Belgium would be
with a united FG effort, in which case I have no hope anyway.
>Your moves have merit, I'll wait for Turkey and get back to you.
>What I'd like to do though is keep the North Sea open. To do that I
>need to use DEN to bounce you from either NWG or ENG. Which means that
>I can't cover SWE. Which makes that a better place to give up than
>HOL.
Alas, if you tried to give me Sweden this turn, I would probably only
bounce with Russia. I am content to wait until next year to gain a
unit. As far as the North Sea goes, you will have seen that I cannot
support Belgium, attempt Sweden, and support myself into the North
Sea. Just not enough units!
Anyway, this is not about tactics. I am trying, once again, to find an
ally. Russia writes. You write. France has been a little quiet.
More later probably.
Ivy
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> So it's nothing personal. I just can't win if you do.
>
Fair enough.
>
> It was a tough call. I really wanted Russia to come down and help
> Turkey against you, but he'd have none of it.
>
Would it help if I agreed not to pursue any further Turkish centers beyond
Budapest until such time as you've dealt with Russia and gotten the West
straightened out?
> They're both supposed to take me out.
And you certainly can't win if this happens.
>
> You might have made a mistake by becoming the 800 lb gorilla.
>
I guess that begs the question, why would anybody try to take a banana from
an 800 lb gorilla? :)
> For the moment I think that we're antagonists.
I don't think being antagonists at this point is very good for either of us.
If indeed EF has formed and they see you as tied up with 'keeping Italy from
winning', they will just take advantage of the situation and your position
will crumble very fast (at least in my humble opinion). You may indeed keep
me from winning but you won't be doing yourself any favors.
Looking at the map, I would suspect to see Pic s Bel again and probably Bur
- Mun as well as Nor s Fin - Swe. It could get ugly.
> This could change. I'm burning no bridges (except Russia's)
>
Like I said before, peace with Germany is of utmost importance to me and I'm
willing to do anything to get it. Please let me know what I need to do to
give us an equal chance at winning this game. I certainly liked your
suggestion of us going both east and west at the same time. I'm willing to
curtail my Turkish activities if need be. Whatever, just let me know.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
My moves:
Nwg->Nth
Nwy->Nth
Bel h
Eng s Bel
Iri->NAO
That's far less aggressive than I thought I would be, but I know I would
not be getting a supply center no matter what I did. The only move that
might require explanation is the Iri move. It paves the way for NAO->Nwg
next year should it be clear that you and I were going to all out war. At
the same time it keeps an eye on France. Basically I am watching what
others are doing. France has given me far less clues than you. Strange,
after the last set of moves.
Ivy
Message from Master to all
I'm back and I see everything went smoothly in my absence. Maybe
I should take more golf vacations . . .
Doug
Message from Master to all
S1905R processed on Saturday; this is a -MTWTF- 48 hour game; I thought
that would put the next deadline on Tuesday night. I guess not though;
Monday night deadlines are allowed and it is 48 hours after the last
deadline, so it passed through.
How would I set deadlines such that a deadline would fall on a Monday
only if the previous moves processed Thursday or earlier? IOW, so that
every movement deadline followed at least two full weekdays . . .
Anyway, I'm moving *this* deadline to tomorrow night.
Doug
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
Sory for the delay in my reply. It's often difficult for me to diplome on
weekends.
In any case, I really cannot support you against Russia at this point. Even
with German help, if Russia joins Italy against me, I won't stand a chance.
However, I did promise support against Vie, and that certainly seems like a
viable option. Of course, it would be fairly easy for Italy to defend
against it. I do like the possibility of attacking Ven, since it weakens
his position in Austria, and certainly if you got into Venice you could
wreak all kinds of havoc.
In any case, if you want support for Tyr-Vie, please just let me know.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
I did have one other thought, and it is this. The most obvious German
attacks are to Ven, or to Vie with support. The logical defense against
that is Tri-Ven, Bud S Vie. That would leave Italy open to Tyr-Tri.
Italy's only counter to that is Ser-Tri; but if you don't attack Tri, then
that risks me moving Bul-Ser.
In any case, it occurs to me that Trieste, though an unlikely-looking
target, might actually be a reasonable choice. Any thoughts? I'm beginning
to consider making more aggressive (and risky) moves agaisnt Italy, rather
than simply defending, on the basis that Roberto might protect all assets
against A Tyr. I have no doubt that he is using diplomatic channels to make
Tyr go away quietly. Perhaps this could give us some advantage?
Anyway, please write with your thoughts at your earliest convenience.
Ali
Message from Germany to Turkey
I'm going to stick with my original premise for another round of
press. That's the one where you help me into WAR or MOS. I'd like to
point out that if we do this, and I stay in STP, and England doesn't
support Russia to SWE, then Russia will be down to one unit.
A couple of points on that; why would England support Russia against
me? Certainly it'll weaken me, but to what advantage to England. I'd
just disband my army in Tyrolia. Italy would go unchecked while I
fought England.
Russia can't dislodge STP without English help. I've given Ivy the
option of taking SWE instead of dislodging STP. That keeps me at the
same size, and Ivy builds one, Russia loses one. So Russia is down to
two. If we take another, he's down to one. Not even a threat, and
you'll have real help from the west.
Your TYR - TRI move is a good idea. I also like TYR - PIE. Leaves me
open to either move an army to MUN or build one there, and put two
armies on Italy.
Conversely, you saw how Russia tried to move all of his units in my
direction last time. If I have to fight him, I can't put any pressure
on Italy.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
> That's far less aggressive than I thought I would be, but I know I
> would not be getting a supply center no matter what I did.
What about my suggestion of taking SWE? There's a build. If you take
SWE then you can't support Russia against me in STP.
Turkey isn't cooperating with me about supporting me into either WAR or
MOS. But it's still a win for me if I take STP and you take SWE. I
wouldn't build. But Russia would lose one. That's a gain for me. I'd
request that you not use that build against me of course. I'll even go
so far as to support you in, if you'll promise to self-bounce in the
North Sea.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
> Would it help if I agreed not to pursue any further Turkish centers
> beyond Budapest until such time as you've dealt with Russia and
> gotten the West straightened out?
I'm afraid not. I guess he would lives by the sword dies by the sword.
Meaning that you've lied (although not to me) in the past. I would be
remiss if I didn't take that into consideration.
I can point you in a better direction for your diplomatic efforts. I've
told France and England that if they take a bite out of me, my first
disband will be that army in TYR.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
> Anyway, Russia does not want to support me into Sweden; he prefers
> the opposite. Surprise, surprise.
I'm rolling on the floor.
>
> Anyway, this is not about tactics. I am trying, once again, to
> find an ally. Russia writes. You write. France has been a little
> quiet.
Well we have another day, now. If you offer to not knock me out of
STP, and don't want SWE, I'll take it. I would still use the build to
build an army and move it south. I'd also give up SWE or HOL to you
the following year, provided the North Sea stays clear. (Weren't we at
this spot 3 years ago? ;-)
What do you think will happen with I vs T if no one else interferes?
I'm basing all of my offers and possible moves on my theory that Italy
will overrun Turkey. And Turkey will be down to 3 units within 2 years.
Italy is basically offering me the world to stay out of his hair.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Kind Neighbor:
(Thought that I'd try something different)
Looks like we have another day. Which I could use. I haven't agreed
with anyone on anything yet. Which is good for FG.
England's offers are puzzling, because it appears that his plan is to do
nothing.
Russia and I really dislike each other. There's no chance I'll do
anything there but try to grab a center of his.
You'd think that Turkey would be happy to get my help, and be suggesting
ways to get more of it, but he's not.
Italy is offering the world to me if I'll pull out of TYR. Too bad I
don't think that he should be trusted. I did point out that he should
point his diplomatic arrows at a better target than me. I mentioned
that if E or F take a bit out of me I'll disband that TYR army first.
Maybe you should expect a barrage of press from Italy exorting you to
attack Germany. There are some advantages to being the player in the
middle.
Fredd
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> I'm afraid not. I guess he would lives by the sword dies by
> the sword.
I appreciate the answer but you leave me no choice then but to forcefully
remove the unit at the first opportunity.
> Meaning that you've lied (although not to me) in the past.
>
Who hasn't?
Roberto
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
I'm watching Monday Night Football and typing this during commercials, so
this may not be my most coherent letter.
>What do you think will happen with I vs T if no one else interferes?
>I'm basing all of my offers and possible moves on my theory that Italy
>will overrun Turkey.
Yes, and get a 13-14 center stalemate line as well. It's really been on my
mind, but what should I be doing about it?
>What about my suggestion of taking SWE? ... I'll even go
>so far as to support you in, if you'll promise to self-bounce in the
>North Sea.
I could really get screwed doing this. If I try Nor->Swe and bounce myself
in Nth, then I can't protect Belgium. You could take Belgium while
bouncing me (and Russia too?) in Sweden.
I could try Nor-Swe and Nwg->Nth. That would require you to decide what to
do with Den. It would most likely end with you and I bouncing in Nth and
Russia and I bouncing in Swe. I don't like that much either. Russia is
already fed up with my refusing to help him for so long. It's one thing
for you to bounce him out of Sweden; it's another for me to do it. I am
trying not to burn too many bridges.
>Well we have another day, now. If you offer to not knock me out of
>STP, and don't want SWE, I'll take it.
Denver's McCafferty just broke his leg. Looks very, very bad.
I am not touching StP. I'll sleep on Sweden. I am trying to get France to
support Belgium again, but he has some strange ideas. Round and round we
go.
Tomorrow.
Ivy
Message from Germany to Italy
> > Meaning that you've lied (although not to me) in the past.
> >
>
> Who hasn't?
You've been particularly good at it :-0 (that's a compliment)
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Dear Neighbor:
>(Thought that I'd try something different)
I thought that I would go you one better :-)
>Looks like we have another day. Which I could use.
Indeed.
>I haven't agreed with anyone on anything yet.
>Which is good for FG.
Agreeing with France would be much better for FG,
actually. Will you support Burgundy to Belgium?
I guess that I could support it myself and then we would
just bounce, if you decide to make a grab for it.
But there are better plans, ones that would assure that
the army is destroyed.
>England's offers are puzzling, because it appears that
>his plan is to do nothing.
You are smart enough to read between those lines.
>Italy is offering the world to me if I'll pull out of
>TYR. Too bad I don't think that he should be trusted.
>I did point out that he should point his diplomatic
>arrows at a better target than me. I mentioned
>that if E or F take a bit out of me I'll disband that
>TYR army first. Maybe you should expect a barrage of
>press from Italy exorting you to attack Germany.
He wants me to attack Munich. I told him that I will
consider it. I have not yet made up my mind.
>There are some advantages to being the player in the
>middle.
Presumeably you mean that you get more press, and stress
I imagine.
Bottom line, do you want my help against Italy? Then you
need to offer me Belgium. Since France seems to be your
last option, I am putting my efforts elsewhere. If you
want to work with France, you will have to put forth the
effort to talk me into it.
Until such time I will probably follow England's plan and
do very little, other than perhaps a beer run.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England, Germany, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Just to let you know that I will likely be unavailable
tonight. Any thing that you need to be work out with
France, please try to do before the standard workday
ends.
Merci,
France
Message from Germany to France
When will you be back online?
My number one option is still to support you to BEL. I'm not planning
on putting my orders in until tonight though. I'm waiting on Ali. I
want him to support me into WAR or MOS, but he's waffling. If he
doesn't do that why should I help him with Italy? And if I'm not
attacking Italy that changes everything, for a lot of people.
I guess that I'll just be late.
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>When will you be back online?
My complications are somewhat relieved. I should be
on-line sporadically all day.
>I guess that I'll just be late.
I am sure that we can talk enough that you can avoid
this.
So if Turkey will not help you against Russia, then what
are your plans?
--Prince Boar
Message from Russia to all
Like much of the rest of the country, my
workplace is shutting down in response to the
reported terrorist attacks in New York and
Washington D.C. I'll be back online once I
get out of town, and back home. (Nick shakes
his head, "The chances of a terrorist targeting
the town I work in, let alone the building I
work in, is exactly zero, but I suppose that
since everyone is watching TV and listening to
the radio, rather than working, it makes a
certain amount of sense.)
Message from Italy to all
We are taking a break. I cannot give you a timeline of when I will be back
online. There are no words to describe the events of today.
Message from Master to all
Agreed. I've moved the deadline way out and set wait; we'll talk about
resuming this game at some time in the future. I have a brother who on
occasion has to work at the Pentagon and I'm not interested in doing
anything until I hear from him.
Doug
Message from Turkey to all
I cannot begin to describe the mortification, grief and fury that course
through me on this blackest of days. I, too, will unavailable until further
notice.
Message from Germany to France
Looks like it's best to just postpone this game for awhile.
Fredd
Message from Russia to all
I Wrote >
> I'll be back online once I get out of town, and back home.
In the unlikely event that anyone was even remotely concerned
about my safety based on my last message, don't be. I'm home,
and fine.
Russia.
Message from England to all
I am willing to
a) resume "titleist" anytime, whether it be now, a week from now, a month
from now, ... whatever.
b) terminate the game if someone is so personally affected that continuing
would be inappropriate.
Ivy
Message from Germany to all
My suggestion would be to just leave this alone through the coming
weekend. Then set a deadline of Wed midnight for the next moves.
Fredd
Message from France to all
I agree with the German proposal. Next week seems like
an appropriate time to start thinking about a game again.
It may be nice to have a friendly diversion from all
these troubles. However, I think that we may want to
slow things down for a little while, perhaps adjusting
the deadlines to 72 hours, as we will all be distracted.
However, if Doug, or any single person is not ready to
start, for any reason. Then I am willing to allow them
an unquestioned veto for the start date (for as long as
necessary).
May God, Buddha, or wherever we draw our religious or
philosophical strength watch over each of us.
--Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
I'll set the next deadline for the latest date that any player
requests, but will move to 72 hour deadlines only by unanimous
consent of all players (I'd still like to finish by December,
though, since the next full-press tournament should being in
early 2002 -- so I'd personally rather stay with 48 hours).
Please press to m with your opinion on both matters; all player
requests will be private.
Doug
Message from France to all
I am not suggesting or even requesting a permanent
deadline change to 72 hours. I was suggesting that in
the first week or so after we continue, that we may want
to proceed slowly. I do not think that settings changes
are necessary.
Since, I am voting against changing the game to 72 hours,
there is no need for anyone else to vote. All I ask is
that we adjust the first few deadlines *if* it seems
appropriate.
Thanks,
France
Message from Germany to Master
Doug:
I'd like a 72 hour deadline, but only for the next board year.
My suggestion for the next deadline is next Wed. 11:55 pm EST.
Germany
Message from Turkey to all
I am ready to resume the game at any time. My orders for fall are confirmed.
Ali
Message from Russia to all
>Broadcast message from Turkey in 'titleist':
>
>I am ready to resume the game at any time. My orders for fall are
>confirmed.
My orders are in as well.
Nick.
Message from Master to all
I've set the deadline for F1905M to Thursday evening. If anyone would
like more time for this or the next few deadlines, let me know.
Doug
Message from England to all
We are starting again, apparently.
I haven't given any thought to "titleist" since we halted. It just doesn't
feel the same. The often used phrase, "it's just a game," never meant more
than it does now. So let's "play" and play well, knowing more than ever
that it is just recreation. Recreation still has its place.
Ivy
Message from France to all
I am available and ready to continue. I too am
struggling getting back into the game. I suppose that it
will improve with time. I apologize in advance if my
presentation and attention suffers for a while.
I may need a little more time before removing my set
wait. Negotiations were not complete last Tuesday when
it suddenly no longer matter.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I believe that we left things with your promising to get
back to me.
--Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I only look at Titleist at home. Before coming home from work today, I
made plans for the whole evening. Starting in about 10 minutes.
Can this wait until Wed?
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>Can this wait until Wed?
I guess by default it must :-) :-)
I would wish you a good time, but it is already too late.
So I will hope that you had a good time.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
While you are poinering your future, I will tell you my
default orders. I will attack Belgium from Picardy.
Burgundy will either support Picardy to Belgium or go for
Munich. This gives me flexibility to accept your help
for Belgium in you decide to help me, but at the same
time keeps you honest.
It also allows me to get in orders without waiting for
you to make a decision. I think that it also gives you
flexibility to help me take Belgium (perhaps), giving me
a fleet to use against Italy, if you choose to do that at
the last minute.
Since England may support Belgium from the Channel, it
may mean that neither of us would take it. Although I
could break this support, I am not inclined to do so. I
do not want you to take the opportunity to take Belgium
instead. I cannot afford a super large Germany on my
border to go along with a super large Italy on my border.
If you wish to dicuss things further, I should be
available.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
This has been a very difficult negotiating season for me. I am referring
solely to the game situation, not to the tragic external events.
I don't know if my moves will please you or not, but I am motivated by and
frustrated by being isolated from Italy, when I think that Italy should be
the primary concern of all other players. I have been trying to alert
others to the dangerous situation Italy has us in. He is already very
close to being able to take out Turkey and grab a stalemate line with 13 or
14 centers. If that happens, we might stop him from winning the game, but
I doubt we could stop him from winning the tournament.
Anyway, my moves are entered. I am not attacking Holland. I am not
attacking Sweden. More I do not wish to say.
No matter what happens, I stand ready to ally with anyone who can muster
the resources to stop Italy. We may need a multi-player coalition. That
will be difficult, given the recent history involving France, England,
Germany, and Russia.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
I'd say something about the events in the outside world, but maybe it's
better just to stick to the game.
I like your idea of TYR-TRI. Will you support LVN-WAR from GAL?
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I also see the Italian threat. Which is why I went to TYR last turn.
And in fact practically my whole moves hinged on that. If I moved MUN
south, then I couldn't take BUR, if I couldn't take BUR it's another
turn where EG spin their wheels. Therefore why not attack England?
Sounds like twisted logic, but you know how your moves sometimes flow
from the decision of the first piece.
My intention is to keep STP and build an army to send south. That
decision would be easier if I could work with Turkey, but I haven't
heard anything from him yet. Have you?
I've got another day to decide on my moves. Truthfully I don't know
what they'll be yet. Obviously the only place that I could hurt you is
by supporting France to BEL. I still haven't figured out what that'll
get me. As I'm still of the opinion that France is a caged tiger. Let
him out and we're toast. I'd say that if his real intention is to send
a fleet or two against Italy then he should have moved this fleet in POR
to SPA last turn.
I'll write again tomorrow.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Prince:
But wouldn't a super large Germany cancel out the super large Italy?
In fact wouldn't a larger Germany be much better right about now? I
mean because you and Ivy are on my backside, whereas Roberto only has
Ali.
I haven't heard a word from Turkey, have you?
I'm still interested in support you into Belgium, but it'll have to go
from BUR. You can see my reasoning there. I'd also like to hold you
to your promise to build a fleet in MAR with that build.
Do we have a deal with these conditions?
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>But wouldn't a super large Germany cancel out the super
>large Italy?
Math may not be my strong point, but I know that 9 + 8 do
not equal zero! They equal, ummm, just a second, let me
slip my shoes off here, OK, 17!
:-)
>I haven't heard a word from Turkey, have you?
No, I supsect we will not until the orders process.
>I'm still interested in support you into Belgium,...
>Do we have a deal with these conditions?
Is this a bonafide promise to do so if I agree or is it
merely your still considering your options. Although I
am likely to be talked into it, I really do not want to
waste my time discussing it until you are actually
offering to carry through with it.
--Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
> >I'm still interested in support you into Belgium,...
> >Do we have a deal with these conditions?
> Is this a bonafide promise to do so if I agree or is it
> merely your still considering your options. Although I
> am likely to be talked into it, I really do not want to
> waste my time discussing it until you are actually
> offering to carry through with it.
I don't think that I can get more precise than what I said originally
above. It's a bonafide deal in my view.
I'm seeing the deadline change around. Perhaps we won't have orders
process anytime soon.
Fredd
Message from Master to all
Okay, let's try Friday night (tonight!) for a deadline.
Doug
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
OK, sorry if I did not take "I am still thinking about
supporting you to Belgium" as a promise of your doing so.
The reason that I hestiate to order Bur to Bel is that
you could pull the old two-step, support Bur to Bel and
then slip Ruh into Bur. But thinking about it, I guess
that you would end up with an English army in Ruhr and
have just as many problems as I would have. Therefore I
am now less concerned.
You have to worry about two things. My betraying you and
going for Munich and the English army retreating to Ruhr.
You can cover both of these with the following orders:
Hol s Bur to Bel, Ruh -> Mun, Tyr -> Mun
I need the support from Holland because I need to split
my fleet forces. I have to worry about Italy, your
moving to Piedmont, and England slipping into the MAO. I
will try to cover all bases with limited resources.
So yes, if you order as above and I do indeed take
Belgium from Burgundy, I will cheerfully build a fleet in
Marseilles. Your presence in Tyrolia would be important
because my forces in the Med. will still be limited. I
would need something in the North to deal with England.
although, I know I must keep that force to a minimum, to
ease your fears.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
> I've got another day to decide on my moves. Truthfully I don't know
>what they'll be yet. Obviously the only place that I could hurt you is
>by supporting France to BEL. I still haven't figured out what that'll
>get me. As I'm still of the opinion that France is a caged tiger. Let
>him out and we're toast. I'd say that if his real intention is to send
>a fleet or two against Italy then he should have moved this fleet in POR
>to SPA last turn.
That *&%7)*& USIN is at it again. Perhaps you will get 10 copies of
this. Rather than being upset at judge keepers, I admire them all the more
for what they have to put up with in order to keep this hobby alive.
I understand your dilemma. Long ago, I decided that this had to be a
wait-and-see turn for me. I do think there is a chance that France will
turn fleets against Italy, and I am willing to leave him alone this
turn. Who knows what he will really do?
If he is asking you to support him into Belgium, then perhaps he is feeding
me a line. Or, assuming that he really may be going against Italy, maybe
he just doesn't want you to take Belgium. Surely, he is bright enough to
see that Italy is the big problem now.
I am not confident any more that I have a great future in
"titleist." Probably everything I do and write in the next several moves
will be based on the assumption that Italy must be stopped, even if it
takes all of the rest of us to cooperate.
Anyway, for this turn, I prefer that you not support him into Belgium or
attack it yourself. That's what my message comes down to, I guess,
something so obvious that it hardly seems worth my time to say it.
Your once and future friend,
Ivy
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
After much thought and sole searching, I will support you into BEL from
BUR. The primary reason is that if we don't do something about Italy
now, it'll be too late. The secondary reason is that England has moved
himself out of position to have much effect on this game.
I hope you will follow through on your promise to build a fleet in
MAR. I would also like a future consideration, to be named later. Here
I'm just thinking that if I support you into one center, than a fair
return would be for you to support me into a center later. (Perhaps in
England, or Italy)
I have been looking at the MUN bounce. I thought of that also, but I
think I'll keep quiet as to whether I'll take that route or not. There
are other options, such as using TYR against Italy, or moving RUH to
MUN. (which does leave England a retreat into RUH, but if he does that
he'll have to disband a fleet.)
You'll have time to make any move changes that you wish. I don't have
my orders in yet. As Turkey and I have more details to work out in
regard to the east. I'll wait until at least I hear back from you.
Regards,
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
I understand your feelings about pretty much holding this turn. I still
don't know what to do (at least in the east) as Turkey is still silent.
I have the same concerns that you do over BEL, although my thoughts are
a little further east. I hope that you're not helping Russia attack me
in SWE or STP. It doesn't sound like you will. Russia needs to be
eliminated. He's no help against Italy. Plus I need a build to send
another army south before it's too late.
I currently am not attacking BEL or helping France attack BEL.
The moves will not be processing tonight. I don't have orders in. I
wonder if Turkey is even still with us.
Does this game seem unimportant to you?
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
That was pretty good. I wrote that whole note, and forgot to mention
the thing that I started out looking at.
Are you going to bounce the North Sea? I figure that I pretty much
have to go to SWE to counter Russia. Therefore I can't bounce with you
in NTH.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
Are you still with us?
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
As I have promised 5 times, if you help me take Belgium, I will indeed
build a fleet in Marseilles. :-) My only admendment is that I do not
find a German army in Piedmont. :-) Thank you for your support.
I understand that you may not bounce yourself in Munich. You may
instead hold in Ruhr and use Tyrolia against Italy. But you do not want
to tell me this in case I may consider going for Munich. There still is
that chance that I could try it anway(although it is not highly likely
if Belgium is available), so I do recommend the bounce. :-)
And yes, there is no need to throw in extra stipulations of my agreeing
to support you to a center later. I think that the implicited agreement
would be that we would work to together to split the English centers.
Hopefully you are now able to turn your orders in and we can finally get
this game going, before the judge goes down again! :-)
--Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
I'm already to turn in my support order for you. But I'm going to wait
a bit longer to see if I can't get a deal with Turkey. There are two
late players. I'm one. I'm assuming that other is Ali.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
> Prince Boar:
> I'm already to turn in my support order for you. But I'm going to wait
> a bit longer to see if I can't get a deal with Turkey. There are two
> late players. I'm one. I'm assuming that other is Ali.
I should clarify that. I haven't totally decided on my orders for my
eastern units. The support of BUR to BEL by HOL is entered.
My dealings with Turkey don't effect my dealings with you.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
I got your two messages late Saturday evening frum our beloved USIN.
Goodness knows when you actually wrote them. I am writing Sunday at 11:30
am. Goodness knows when your will receive this!
> ... as Turkey is still silent.
I had one brief message from Turkey after Septmber 11. He said nothing of
consequence. I think his moves are in.
> I have the same concerns that you do over BEL, although my thoughts are
>a little further east. I hope that you're not helping Russia attack me
>in SWE or STP.
>Are you going to bounce the North Sea? I figure that I pretty much
>have to go to SWE to counter Russia. Therefore I can't bounce with you
>in NTH.
My moves are still as I suggested so long ago. Eng s Bel; Nwg & Nwy->Nth.
>Does this game seem unimportant to you?
Yes, but for more than the one obvious big reason. My load at work has
increased enormously recently. Also the USIN disruptions have detracted
from the continuity of titleist. Finally, I think I have always had a
healthy sense of perspective. Diplomacy has always seemed unimportant to
me. In spite of that, I do play hard, and I see no reason to just "mail in
the moves." I'll continue to give this my best.
>Plus I need a build to send
>another army south before it's too late.
> I currently am not attacking BEL or helping France attack BEL.
I find it interesting that neither of us has of late urged the other to
make anti-French moves. I once recommended Hol-Ruh, and Ruh-Mun to you.
Those would still be good moves. I also once wanted Tyrolia-Piedmont, but
now I would rather see Tyrolia->Venice. Somewhere along the way, I began
to realize that Italy is much too big a threat and that we may need France
to help us. I don't want all those observers to see us squabble while one
country runs away with the game. Aren't we supposed to be better than
that? No one should have an easy victory.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Good point about neither of us suggesting anti-France moves. I'd say
the reason is that we don't have much hope of getting anything done in
that direction. When I decided to send MUN south instead of using it to
support a move to BUR my anti-French options dried up. You don't have
many options either, as you have retreated your fleet in NAO to NWG.
More importantly we've already tried that route. It didn't get very
far. Perhaps we can try it again in the future. With Italy supporting
France we didn't have much chance. If we can turn France toward Italy
(basically by leaving him alone) perhaps a stab will work better in the
future.
Interesting in that we share the same opinion of this game. It never
was that important to me. And in fact was taking up more of my time
than I'd like it to. Hence my slow response at times. I have been
giving it the old college try though.
Fredd
Message [from France] to all
What is the story with the game? Is someone missing or is someone
expecting a deadline extension? If not, what are we waiting for?
Message from Germany to Master
Doug:
You might not be able to answer this. Is someone missing?
Obviously I'm one of the late ones. I'm obviously here.
I'm holding my moves because I believe that we ARE missing someone. If,
in fact, everyone has signaled to you that they're ready to start
playing again, I'll submit orders. Whether or not certain people
contact me.
Germany
> Broadcast message in 'titleist':
>
> What is the story with the game? Is someone missing or is someone
> expecting a deadline extension? If not, what are we waiting for?
Message from Master to Germany
usin@thekleimans.com said:
> You might not be able to answer this. Is someone missing? Obviously
>I'm one of the late ones. I'm obviously here.
Although you obviously haven't submitted orders and you obviously
are continuing to send press. Why you might think that this is
appropriate behavior is beyond me. Please don't try to manage deadlines
by withholding orders.
Submit your orders ASAP, please.
> I'm holding my moves because I believe that we ARE missing someone.
>If, in fact, everyone has signaled to you that they're ready to start
>playing again, I'll submit orders. Whether or not certain people
>contact me.
Everyone has indicated that they are ready to continue. Two players,
including yourself, have failed to submit orders.
Doug
Message from England to all
My moves have been in for a long, long time.
Ivy
Message from Russia to all
> Broadcast message from England in 'titleist':
>
> My moves have been in for a long, long time.
Mine have been in since, (checking records...) the night of 9/9.
Nick.
Message from Master to all
I've spoken with the late player. He's had some hectic issues to deal
with and has had to knock the priority of Diplomacy down a bit recently.
But he didn't ask for an extended break and said he would submit orders
by the end of the weekend.
The game is listed "Quiet", so I won't say who it was, nor will I confirm
or deny anything.
Doug
England: Army Belgium → English Channel → Picardy
England: Fleet English Channel CONVOY Army Belgium → Picardy
England: Fleet Irish Sea → North Atlantic Ocean
England: Fleet Norway SUPPORT Russian Fleet Finland → Sweden
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea → North Sea
France: Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Western Mediterranean
France: Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Fleet Portugal → Spain (south coast)
Germany: Fleet Denmark → Sweden (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Holland SUPPORT French Army Burgundy → Belgium (*void*)
Germany: Army Livonia → Warsaw (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr → Munich
Germany: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) HOLD
Germany: Army Tyrolia → Trieste (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Aegean Sea → Bulgaria (south coast) (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Budapest → Galicia (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea → Bulgaria (south coast)
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Apulia
Italy: Army Serbia → Rumania (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Trieste → Tyrolia (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea HOLD
Italy: Army Vienna → Galicia (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Finland → Sweden
Russia: Army Ukraine → Moscow
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Army Ukraine → Moscow (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Ankara → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna → Aegean Sea (*bounce*)
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