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Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
This is a riot. It also makes my head spin.
I'll look at it.
Ivy
>Look at this
>Norway takes SWE - gives you a build
>DEN and NWG bounce the North Sea.
>you can attack France somehow as he won't expect it now.
>I take STP - Russia can't dislodge me without your help.
>I take MOS or WAR with Turkey's help. I build one.
>I can stay in TYR and continue to harras Italy.
>Another option is that I can now move to PIE and on into MAR.
>
>This just keeps getting better.
Message from Italy to Germany
Ok, I have to ask, what's up with Tyrolia?
I figured somebody would come after me. I was disappointed to find out it
was you, if indeed the move to Tyrolia was meant as an aggressive move. I
will have to figure out a way to defend against however regardless of its
motive.
Looks to me like you made moves against both Russia and England. I didn't
think you'd also move to Tyrolia as well.
Anyway, I'd love to here your thoughts on the spring moves and hope we can
resolve the issue of Tyrolia once and for all.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
> I just have time for a quick note. Thanks for withdrawing!!
You are welcome. One front at a time. The only bad part of the moves was
that rascal Germany moved into Tyrolia. I can't believe he made moves
against three different countries in one turn. To me, that's a recipe for
disaster. Was he expecting something from you that he didn't get?
> Now what to do next.
Clearly it's your decision but Italy would diplomatically support Bur-Mun
and, as soon as possible, I would support it militarally.
EG tension appears to have hit a boiling point and you made pro-English
moves so I would suspect you would keep that alliance. However, English
territory presents a larger and easier growth opportunity for you. I would
suggest a pro-EF fall turn but be prepared to stab England next year.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
That's about as good as you could expect. You got your fleet in the ideal
defensive position. You still have Sevastopol. Both Germany and I heeded
your advice to stab each other (yes, we are still talking). And now France
has fleets that are free to harass Italy.
There is still a downside. As I look at your position you will be exactly
one unit short of having enough for an airtight defense. Your south is
safe, but Romania will be vulnerable after you destroy a unit. The other
problem is still France. Just because he has free fleets does not mean he
will use them against Italy. He still may team up with Germany to use them
against me.
France has a tough decision to make. Just how many units can Turkey lose
(and Italy gain) before it is too late to step in?
You've done well, but keep talking to France. He is not fully committed to
ally with me against Germany. If he allies with Germany, the fleets will
stay west much longer.
Ivy
Message from France to England
> I am a diehard Steelers fan.
As you can guess from most the comments made by my
symposia commentators, I enjoy football as well. I,
however, am a life long Packer fan. Each of our teams
have the same problem, a couple of powerhouses in the
Division. Oh well, I will cheer for the Steelers if you
do so for the Pack! :-)
>You are to be congratulated. With persistent diplomacy
>and flawless tactics you have weathered the storm.
Thanks, but my tactics were not flawless. I gambled and
lost a couple of times. But I was consistent in my
focus, which worked out in the end. I owe my rebirth to
good luck as much as anything. (and perhaps how
difficult it is to work efficiently with Germany :-)
>Russia can come out even with my help. He can either
>recover StP or take Sweden instead.
Good
>But Germany does not lose a center. After I pull the
>Channel up into the North Sea this next turn he will be
>very hard pressed.
Yes, Germany will not fall this turn, but will be in
trouble next year. It may be a little slow, as I will
need to divert some forces south. But with three of us
working at it, we shall be over to overcome him soon.
>Germany sent me a note thanking me for vacating the
>North Sea. 8-)
Yes, he boasted to me about it as well.
Germany has already made some noise about offering me
Belgium. We could take advantage of that to press inland
a bit this year, namely Ruhr. If he is not attacking
Belgium, and he needs to cover Munich, then Belgium is
probably safe. We could order Bur to Ruh support by Bel
and Pic to Bur.
What are your plans for F Iri? Is it required for
defense or do you need it in the channel? If it is
defense, then can we figure out something reasonable,
like a bounce somewhere or docking it in Liverpool, while
I set up shop in Portugal or something?
If we are going to do something about Germany and Italy,
we may need to consider the best orders for our units, if
we had 100% trust. I expect that might be a bit far for
us to go, but we can discuss it. It would be a good
place to start our tactics and then work from there; i.e.
what is the best compromise between best tactics and
sense of security.
I will study the map and then write again tomorrow. The
orders are due Monday night, or at least that is what my
computer claims! :-)
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
> To attack in all directions simultaneously of course.
I like your sense of conservatism :-)
>The benefit to me is that the North Sea is finally
>clear.
Congratulations. Of course, I would have been happier
with the Channel clear :-)
>Too bad that you supported BEL. :-(
Well, you did not expect me to be happy about your having
Belgium and St. Petes. My math tells me that is 5 units
for me, 8 units for you. And then you expected me to go
fight Italy without additional resources.
Bascially, you did not offer Belgium to me, so I had to
accept the only reasonable request/offer that I had. A
truce with England.
>I laughed at your comments about working with him a
> couple of days ago. It's like pulling teeth.
Well, some people, not France of course, have said the
same of you :-) :-)
>I hope that no matter what happens between EFG that
>you'll be able to put at least one fleet into the Med.
I was supposed to build one in Marseilles, remember.
>Therefore I now have two good reasons to support you to
>BEL. From BUR, and with only HOL, as RUH will be
>heading to MUN.
Now you are talking! I hope to hear you repeat this as
the deadline gets closer. I just might be able to build
that fleet in Marseilles.
> I guess that puts you in the drivers seat.
What a strange thought. It is certainly a location I
have never been.
--Prince Daupin
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
How did things turn out for you? I know that you lost
Budapest, but at least you are in Galicia, which should
help you save Rumania. Russia will break even with
Sweden/St. Petes, so he only builds if he takes
Sevastopol. This of course, would risk Warsaw or Moscow.
I am not certain what he will do. He would be wisest to
support himself to Moscow this year and then worry about
Sevastpol next year after booting Germany from Livonia.
England and I managed a truce, where he made the first
move, but I protected Belgium while he made it. I was
willing to consider going for Ruhr as well, but it seemed
like a wasted move and would have prevented from from
going to Norway. Thanks for your help in getting us
talking. I have always left the door open, but he always
said that he would stick with the current path.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
So what will you do? It seems like you have to cover
Moscow and Warsaw, so going for Sevastopol this year is
probably not wise. Especially since Turkey may get
bounced out of Rumania and remain in Sevastopol. For
what it is worth, I suggest that you order Ukr to Mos s
by War. Next Spring order War to Liv s by Mos. In the
fall, cover War from Livonia and take Sev from Mos.
You could also go for Silesia next spring! :-)
Are you going to take Sweden or St. Petes? I just
realized that England can support you to either. Taking
St. Petes does not allow you to support yourself to
Moscow. I would recommend your going for Sweden. It
allows you to help England to Denmark next year.
Let's continue to work together and keep in touch.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Some observations.
To keep Germany from growing, I must assist Russia in taking either StP or
Sweden this fall. I strongly prefer Sweden, because it would keep the
German units widely separated and put pressure on Denmark.
Germany is making offers, but his sincerity is impossible to judge. For
example, he offers me Sweden, but he could bounce me there while keeping
StP. Thus, I dare not bite on this bait. He also offers to move to Piedmont!
Here is what I suggest. I tell him openly that I dare not go for the
Sweden offer, and I tell him why. I say that I would rather have Holland,
but must wait until next spring for precisely the same reason that I dare
not attempt Sweden this year. I ask him to demonstrate his willingness to
cooperate once again by moving Hol->Ruh, Ruh->Mun, and Tyr->Pie. This is
risk free for him, because I dare not try Bel->Hol this fall for fear of
betrayal and loss of Bel.
Perhaps he will go for this, perhaps not. We can try something like pic s
bel and bel s bur->ruh, which would work if Germany follows my
suggestion. You would also need Por->spa(sc), although I think this is a
move that you probably want to make no matter what. Por(sc) still protects
MAO, also protects Mar, and frees your army from protecting Mar. With
Italy in Tyrolia you can point out to Roberto that you have no choice but
to make this move.
Until I get the Channel into the North Sea, we are not going to take
Holland anyway. I can't think of anything better to do than the
above. Please let me know if you have some suggestions. Next year Germany
is going to have trouble in StP, Denmark, Holland, and Munich. I hope he
loses two of these. I don't know if we need to go into this yet, but with
three of us and 6 German units to divide, I suggest 2 each with you ending
with Belgium and Munich.
Now, what about Italy? He grows to 9 this year and surely 10 next
year. Turkey hasn't anything better than Sev s Gal->Rom this fall, after
which he will destroy Sevastopol. Romania goes next. We need to study the
timing of the Italian growth, so we can stop him before he gets a stalemate
line. That only requires 13 units.
I am perfectly capable of cooling my heels while you and Russia assist
Turkey. Please give me your thoughts on this.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
Let's go with Nor supp Fin->Swe this fall. That leaves the German fleet
isolated and harmless in StP, where we can pick it up next year. Nwg->Bar
should make this easy. Doing it this way also puts pressure on Denmark,
where you should be able to help me next year.
I think this is best, because it keeps the German forces widely separated
and more vulnerable. Next year is going to be very bad for him.
Comments?
Ivy
Message from Russia to Turkey
My thanks for attempting to vacate Sevastopol. Do you plan to support
yourself into Rum this Fall? I imagine Roberto will have to cover Ven, and
he'll probably order Bud-Tri, Ser-Tri as well, to prevent Tyl-Tri, so Tyl S
Gal-Vie might be worth suggesting to Fredd. Please let me know if he
asks for, or offers support into Mos. I realize that such an attack might
be
tempting, but since the West has shifted to EF vs. G., it's not in your best
interest to side with Germany at this point.
Nick.
Press to G
Fredd,
Well, you got StP. I hope it was worth losing Swe this year, and Den
and/or Hol next year.
Nick.
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
Well, you got StP. I hope it was worth losing Swe this year, and Den
and/or Hol next year.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> Let's go with Nor supp Fin->Swe this fall. That leaves the German fleet
> isolated and harmless in StP, where we can pick it up next year.
Agreed.
> Nwg->Bar should make this easy. Doing it this way also puts pressure
> on Denmark, where you should be able to help me next year.
I'd suggest Nwg S Eng-Nth, instead. I'll order War S Ukr-Mos this
Fall, and War-Lvn, Nwy S Mos-StP will take StP next Spring, while
Swe S Nth-Den takes Den. Germany is unlikely to order Den-Nth this
Fall, but Nwg S Eng-Nth seems the safer course.
> I think this is best, because it keeps the German forces widely separated
> and more vulnerable. Next year is going to be very bad for him.
That was my thinking. Hopefully the Bolsheviks will agree with us.
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>So what will you do?
I asked Turkey what he plans to do, but I expect
I will cover Mos, and take Swe.
>You could also go for Silesia next spring! :-)
I actually was toying with War-Sil this Fall,
just to panic Fredd, but I'm not sure it's worth
it.
>Are you going to take Sweden or St. Petes? I just
>realized that England can support you to either.
Hmmm, I hadn't considered that, but Swe makes
more sense, I think, it leaves Germany with two Units
out of position defending StP while EF&R overrun
Germany. Next year Fredd will end up disbanding his
Units in Russia, and I'll reclaim StP then. My only
concern is Lvn S Sev-Mos, but given that that would
just bounce off War S Ukr-Mos, it seems unlikely.
>Let's continue to work together and keep in touch.
You might want to consider sending a Fleet into
the Med to force Roberto to fully defend his holdings,
and slow his expansion. I'll recommend Nwg S Ech-Nth
to Ivy for this Fall.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>> I am a diehard Steelers fan.
>As you can guess from most the comments made by my
>symposia commentators, I enjoy football as well. I,
>however, am a life long Packer fan. Each of our teams
>have the same problem, a couple of powerhouses in the
>Division. Oh well, I will cheer for the Steelers if you
>do so for the Pack!
There are limits to what I will ask of a Diplomacy rival. I would never
ask you to root for the Steelers. They were pathetic today.
I got your message at 9pm on Sunday. I suspect you sent it a day ago.
USIN has been tempermental again.
>Germany has already made some noise about offering me
>Belgium. We could take advantage of that to press inland
>a bit this year, namely Ruhr. If he is not attacking
>Belgium, and he needs to cover Munich, then Belgium is
>probably safe. We could order Bur to Ruh support by Bel
>and Pic to Bur.
That scares me a little unless you intend that I protect Belgium from the
Channel. However, I had been thinking of Nwg supp Eng->Nth. Shouldn't you
like that because it removes yet another English fleet from your vicinity?
>What are your plans for F Iri? Is it required for
>defense or do you need it in the channel?
Ideally, if I send the Channel to Nth, then I should send Iri to the
Channel where it could protect Belgium next time, but I hesitate to expose
both Belgium and Liverpool on the same turn. Maybe Iri->Wal makes you
safer without risking Liverpool.
So, we may have two possibilities here. (1) Pic supp Bel; Nwg supp
Eng->Nth; Iri-Wal?
(2) Channel supp Bel; Iri->Wal.
In both cases Bel supp Bur->Ruh might work.
I really prefer (1). If I don't have to use the Channel to support
Belgium, then I can guarantee both Fin->Swe & Eng->Nth. If I do use the
Channel to support Belgium, then I have to outguess Germany and use Nwy
either to support Fin->Swe (probably) or support Nwg->Nth. Besides, it
seems better to send Nwg to Bar in the spring, and it cannot do that if it
goes to Nth this fall.
>If we are going to do something about Germany and Italy,
>we may need to consider the best orders for our units, if
>we had 100% trust. I expect that might be a bit far for
>us to go, but we can discuss it. It would be a good
>place to start our tactics and then work from there; i.e.
>what is the best compromise between best tactics and
>sense of security.
I now believe that there are no moves you could make that are so bad that I
could take advantage of them and still get to Italy fast enough. In my
other note, I argue for Por->Spa(sc). If you are just a little gutsy you
could think about moving MAO that way also -- without telling me about it.
Ivy
Message from Germany to Russia
> Well, you got StP. I hope it was worth losing Swe this year,
> and Den and/or Hol next year.
Actually I'm not worried about SWE. To lose that either Ivy or you would
have to support the other in. I can't imagine that you'll support Ivy
in. Nor do I see Ivy giving you a build.
I noticed that Turkey tried to vacate SEV. Too bad all of your units
tried to move north. You could have picked up SEV and had three armies
working to contain Italy. That would have been a task that everyone
would have left you alone to do, or supported your efforts. As it is
you're just in the way. I don't see that you have any friends right
now. What good are you to Turkey? None. Me? None. England? If
you'll support him to Sweden you'll be of use. Unfortunately that'll
give Ivy a build with which he can guard against French agression while
he takes out STP. It's unlikely that England will attack me. If he
does Italy will win the game. It's that simple.
Fredd
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>> Nwg->Bar should make this easy.
> I'd suggest Nwg S Eng-Nth, instead.
Oops, I had Nwg doing two things at once. Yes Nwg s Eng-Nth is best.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
I had to go for Germany, because he was going for me. Germany had to go
for me, because I was going for him. This mutual, simultaneous stab is
remarkably guilt free.
I don't know what happens now. The balky USIN has just about cut off
communications again.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Is Fredd playing the same game we are?
> Message from Germany to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > Well, you got StP. I hope it was worth losing Swe this year,
> > and Den and/or Hol next year.
>
> Actually I'm not worried about SWE. To lose that either Ivy or you would
> have to support the other in. I can't imagine that you'll support Ivy
> in. Nor do I see Ivy giving you a build.
>
> I noticed that Turkey tried to vacate SEV. Too bad all of your units
> tried to move north. You could have picked up SEV and had three armies
> working to contain Italy. That would have been a task that everyone
> would have left you alone to do, or supported your efforts. As it is
> you're just in the way. I don't see that you have any friends right
> now. What good are you to Turkey? None. Me? None. England? If
> you'll support him to Sweden you'll be of use. Unfortunately that'll
> give Ivy a build with which he can guard against French agression while
> he takes out STP. It's unlikely that England will attack me. If he
> does Italy will win the game. It's that simple.
>
> Fredd
Roberto is a problem, but even if Turkey collapses, that only gives him 15,
and no clear path to three more. I don't see Turkey collapsing in a big
hurry, anyway. Sweden this Fall, Den and StP next Spring, and probably
one or two of Hol/Kie/Mun next Fall, and Germany should be gone by the
end of '07.
Nick.
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
Once again USIN acted up and we have had a day of silence. I will consider
your offer, or some modification of it, but I want to hear from Russia and
France as well.
The modification I have in mind is Holland instead of Sweden, and next year
instead of this year. I see no reason to try Nor->Swe now when you can
bounce me, and our trust is shaky, to say the least.
However, you could now move Hol->Ruh, Ruh->Mun, and Tyr->Pie with little
risk. You know I would not try to take Holland this year, because the
attempt could backfire, and I could lose Belgium. By making the above
moves, you show me that you are still anti-France and Holland would be open
for me next year. I would simply use the Channel to support Belgium and
hold Iri as well.
Please give this some thought and then reply -- with modifications of your
own, if necessary.
In the meantime let's both see what our other neighbors can offer.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Fredd,
> Actually I'm not worried about SWE. To lose that either Ivy or you
> would have to support the other in. I can't imagine that you'll support
> Ivy in. Nor do I see Ivy giving you a build.
Perhaps, or perhaps not. Given:
Germany: Army Holland -> Belgium. (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Denmark -> North Sea. (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Holland -> Belgium.
Ivy has no reason to let you build, so if he doesn't support me into Swe,
he'll certainly support me back into StP.
> I noticed that Turkey tried to vacate SEV. Too bad all of your units
> tried to move north. You could have picked up SEV and had three
> armies working to contain Italy.
Not with you ordering Lvn-Mos, GoB-Swe, I'd have been forced to
disband one, even if I picked up Sev.
> That would have been a task that everyone would have left you alone
> to do, or supported your efforts.
The minute you get out of Russia, I'll turn on Italy, but defending the
Motherland takes priority over giving support to Turkey.
> It's unlikely that England will attack me.
Right. Check your Spring moves again, and explain why Ivy won't
attack you. You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
> Actually I'm not worried about SWE. To lose that either Ivy or you
> would have to support the other in. I can't imagine that you'll support
> Ivy in. Nor do I see Ivy giving you a build.
Perhaps, or perhaps not. Given:
Germany: Army Holland -> Belgium. (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Denmark -> North Sea. (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Holland -> Belgium.
Ivy has no reason to let you build, so if he doesn't support me into Swe,
he'll certainly support me back into StP.
> I noticed that Turkey tried to vacate SEV. Too bad all of your units
> tried to move north. You could have picked up SEV and had three
> armies working to contain Italy.
Not with you ordering Lvn-Mos, GoB-Swe, I'd have been forced to
disband one, even if I picked up Sev.
> That would have been a task that everyone would have left you alone
> to do, or supported your efforts.
The minute you get out of Russia, I'll turn on Italy, but defending the
Motherland takes priority over giving support to Turkey.
> It's unlikely that England will attack me.
Right. Check your Spring moves again, and explain why Ivy won't
attack you. You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to England
Whoops, obviously that last message was intended for Germany. I
re-addressed
it and sent it out again. Sorry about that.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> Is Fredd playing the same game we are?
Yes, but his message to you was not one of his most convincing efforts, was it?
>Roberto is a problem, but even if Turkey collapses, that only gives him 15,
>and no clear path to three more.
It's much worse than that. The problem is that with only 13 he can form a
stalemate line. Furthermore, once he gets 10 or 11, he cannot be prevented
from getting 13. Once Italy gets his stalemate line, he can sit back
smugly.
I really believe that France needs to send a couple of fleets to the Med
immediately, but given our history it is difficult for me to suggest that
too strongly to him. Please ask him to move in that direction. He is safe
from me. There are no French moves so bad that I could take advantage of
him and still have time to stop Italy.
> Sweden this Fall, Den and StP next Spring, and probably
>one or two of Hol/Kie/Mun next Fall, and Germany should be gone by the
>end of '07.
I agree that the three of us need to hit him with all we got and turn on
Italy. Germany has 6 units. Perhaps the three of us can each gain two out
of this.
Something else is important for me to say. I am perfectly capable of
sitting on my hands after Germany is dead, if I don't have direct access to
Italy. Italy must be stopped, and I will not be nipping at your heels
while you stop him. What I will ask is that we adjust our mutual strength
in a reasonable fashion if you are feasting on Italy. We can sort this out
as we go. Let's just hit Germany hard now.
And yes, Norway is supporting Fin->Swe.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
Russia accidentally sent me a message that was intended for you.
> You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
I don't like taunting.
Ivy
Message from Germany to Russia
> Right. Check your Spring moves again, and explain why Ivy won't
> attack you. You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
Oddly enough I think that you're history. I would who is right.
Oh yeah. You would have had to disband that fleet. Which was half my
point.
Message from Germany to England
> Russia accidentally sent me a message that was intended for you.
>
> > You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
>
> I don't like taunting.
Yeah he sent that along to me. We've just been yelling at each other
in the last couple of presses. It started with his remarking on how
I'm finally in STP, and was it worth it since I'll lose Sweden and HOl
or Den. Not to be outdone I nailed him back with a bunch of
speculation on how many ways he could be eliminated. The above was his
reply.
In a way I like this better. I can be openly hostile to him. This is a
rift that'll never be patched.
In case you're interested, I pointed out that he's not helping Turkey
against Italy so why would Turkey work with him. Or for that matter
why would I work with him for the same reason, as I believe that Italy
will win this game unless someone gets a body on him. (See my move to
TYR.) I might have made him maddest though by pointing out that I just
couldn't imagine that he'd support you to Sweden. I'd bet money on that
one.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
> I will consider your offer, or some modification of it, but I want
> to hear from Russia and France as well.
Well France wants Belgium, as usual.
Good luck with Russia ;-) Although maybe I've pissed him off enough
that he'll support you into something.
> However, you could now move Hol->Ruh, Ruh->Mun, and Tyr->Pie with
> little risk. You know I would not try to take Holland this year,
> because the attempt could backfire, and I could lose Belgium.
I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you and France supported
each other last turn. BEL - HOL and PIC- BEL could be just what you
guys have in mind.
I'm still waiting to hear back from Turkey. This all turns if he'll
support me into WAR or MOS this year. If so (and I keep SWE and gain
STP) then I'd build two. Which means that I could afford to give up
something now, not later.
Your moves have merit, I'll wait for Turkey and get back to you.
What I'd like to do though is keep the North Sea open. To do that I
need to use DEN to bounce you from either NWG or ENG. Which means that
I can't cover SWE. Which makes that a better place to give up than
HOL.
Italy's pissed at me too. Turkey seems to be my only friend. sigh.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
> >Too bad that you supported BEL. :-(
> Well, you did not expect me to be happy about your having
> Belgium and St. Petes. My math tells me that is 5 units
> for me, 8 units for you. And then you expected me to go
> fight Italy without additional resources.
I hope you don't hold it against me if I try to win. The above would be
a formula for that. Which is why I never expected you to agree. I
was really trying to do an Italy.
>
> Bascially, you did not offer Belgium to me, so I had to
> accept the only reasonable request/offer that I had. A
> truce with England.
I would think that you guys have been working a lot closer for awhile
now. England has been inching my way for a couple of moves. Like I
said, I've seen that before.
> >I laughed at your comments about working with him a
> > couple of days ago. It's like pulling teeth.
> Well, some people, not France of course, have said the
> same of you :-) :-)
I think that we can say the same of all of us. It's rare that we can
find a win-win situation. It's almost always an advantage to someone.
And no one trusts anyone enough to let that happen. I suppose the
winner of this game will be the one who uses our paranoia to their
advantage. For instance, Ivy is totally paranoid. He could have been at
your throat a long time ago, but he was too busy making defensive
manuevers against me, while I was sending pratically everything that I
had east. HOL and DEN were wide open, but he couldn't muster the
courage to attempt to leave BEL open.
>
> >I hope that no matter what happens between EFG that
> >you'll be able to put at least one fleet into the Med.
> I was supposed to build one in Marseilles, remember.
It's not fall yet. I brought that up in the spring.
>
> >Therefore I now have two good reasons to support you to
> >BEL. From BUR, and with only HOL, as RUH will be
> >heading to MUN.
> Now you are talking! I hope to hear you repeat this as
> the deadline gets closer. I just might be able to build
> that fleet in Marseilles.
Naturally, I'm talking to Ivy still. Like I said at the start. I
wouldn't be surprised to see England allied with Germany one turn,
France the next, and Germany again.
Unfortunately he's pulling a Russia. I've given him a way that he can
build one this turn (without having to work with Russia) But he offered
counter moves. Ones that wouldn't have him building this turn. How
reasonable does that sound to you? Unless something changes I think
supporting you to BEL is still my best move. Course I'd really like
your build to be a fleet.
I think Russia's moves have pointed out that he's not going to help
Turkey. In that case either you or I have to, or Italy will win. I
don't see Turkey holding him alone. He'll be building every turn now.
Or at least he will if Turkey and I can't guess right with TYR and GAL.
I should point out that one of the moves that I can make with TYR is
PIE. But I'm sure you've seen that. I can't say that I won't go there.
But if I do moving down the Italian peninsula would be just as good a
move as going for MAR. And if we're working together, it'd be a much
better move.
>
> > I guess that puts you in the drivers seat.
> What a strange thought. It is certainly a location I
> have never been.
Unfortunately a lot of responsibility goes with the position. I see the
game winning threat from Italy. And I'm the only one (currently) doing
something about it. If I were to start losing units, where would I lose
them? Yep the one in TYR would be the first to go. I hate to make
threats like that, but that's the way that I play. I've never
understood players who continue to fight in one direction while someone
is nibbling away at them from behind. In those cases I always turn and
defend. If that means someone who's not attacking me wins, I can live
with that.
Talk to you Monday night.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
Life is not so beautiful.
The Tyrolia move is indeed meant as an aggressive move against you.
You know why of course. Nobody else is doing anything to halt your
takeover of Turkey. I figured that if I didn't do something, then
you'd win. I'm sure that you've considered this possibility yourself.
So it's nothing personal. I just can't win if you do.
> Looks to me like you made moves against both Russia and > England. I didn't think you'd also move to Tyrolia as well.
It was a tough call. I really wanted Russia to come down and help
Turkey against you, but he'd have none of it.
France asked me about it and my reply was that I decided to attack in
all directions. It'll probably backfire, but it sure beats all this
playing around.
>
> Anyway, I'd love to here your thoughts on the spring moves
> and hope we can resolve the issue of Tyrolia once and for
> all.
Ivy and I attemped a stab of each other simultaneously. He'd been
creeping toward me for a couple of moves, and wouldn't get out of the
North Sea. I've seen this type of behavior before. After the fact
I've found out he'd decided that since France had your help he couldn't
break through before you had pretty much dismantled Turkey. Hence EF
formed up. France is supposed to head your way. They're both supposed
to take me out. But considering how the pendulum swings, who knows what
will happen.
You might have made a mistake by becoming the 800 lb gorilla. Or it
might win you the game. Time will tell. For the moment I think that
we're antagonists. This could change. I'm burning no bridges (except
Russia's)
Fredd
Message from Russia to England
> >Roberto is a problem, but even if Turkey collapses, that only gives him
15,
> >and no clear path to three more.
>
> It's much worse than that. The problem is that with only 13 he can form a
> stalemate line. Furthermore, once he gets 10 or 11, he cannot be
prevented
> from getting 13. Once Italy gets his stalemate line, he can sit back
> smugly.
I don't think so. The odds are that I'll retake Sev, so the best Italy
can end
up with is 14, and let's assume that I hold Russia and Swe for 5, so that
leaves
16 Centers in the West, and the Title to you or France if you eliminate the
other
guy. This isn't a game where sitting behind a stalemate line is a winning
strategy.
> I really believe that France needs to send a couple of fleets to the Med
> immediately, but given our history it is difficult for me to suggest that
> too strongly to him. Please ask him to move in that direction. He is
safe
> from me. There are no French moves so bad that I could take advantage of
> him and still have time to stop Italy.
I already suggested that to him in my reply to his Post-S1905M letter.
Given
Eng-Nth, Iri-???, this Fall, I'd say he's likely to send a Fleet or two to
Turkey's
defense. I'll discuss it with him further, once he responds to my letter.
Nick.
Message from Russia to Germany
> Message from Germany to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > Right. Check your Spring moves again, and explain why Ivy won't
> > attack you. You're history, but you just haven't realized it, yet.
>
> Oddly enough I think that you're history.
I've been history since Turkey failed to support me into Bud in '03,
if not before, but I'll lay you odds that you're eliminated before I am.
> Oh yeah. You would have had to disband that fleet. Which was half my
> point.
I would have had to disband the Fleet, and not been able to build that
third
Army you feel I so desparately need to attack Italy. Plus, it's doubtful
even now
that Turkey will be able to vacate Sev, so I could have easily ended up with
only
one Unit/Center. I offered you three different ways for us to disengage,
and you
refused them all, because you wanted me to commit suicide by throwing myself
at Italy while you took my Centers. I don't think you even had half a
point.
Nick.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Sorry about the Steelers. The Packers did look good!
:-)
I was of course suggesting an alternative, that The
Channel move to the North Sea and Picardy move to
Burgundy, because I think that we want to be in both
places!
But I recognize that there is a risk to Belgium and you
have to feel comfortable with it. If we felt that we
knew what Germany was truly going to do, we could go for
it. But do we really know what Germany will do.
He admitted to me that he was trying to pull an Italy,
i.e. get to be real large. And then ally with Italy for
a race to the end? I really haven't had the interaction
with him that you have had. Is he really that devious
and non-trustworthy? He did paint you as paranoid.
Let's keep up the discussion until we are happy with a
plan.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I understand, that you wanted to grab enough centers to
feel center, ala Italy. The problem is that Italy really
has real pressure on his borders. You are not as well
situated. Whether that means you should be bolder or
more conservative is for you to decide.
So, I need to wait until tonight for you to tell me
whether you will support me to Belgium? Of course, you
were supposed to get back to me last move also, but I
never heard from you.
So as I stated, I had to accept England's offer. Your
statement that England and I have been working together
for some time now is pretty ridiculous. He has been
attacking my centers and I have been attacking him. Not
very effective cooperation is it? Thanks for the light
chuckle.
I will be around.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
F:
I meant to write that Italy had *no* pressures on his
borders. I was in too big a hurry.
PB
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>I was of course suggesting an alternative, that The
>Channel move to the North Sea and Picardy move to
>Burgundy, because I think that we want to be in both
>places!
Nick has pointed out that I will not need to go to the Barents to help him
take StP next spring. I can support him in from Norway, while he cuts
Livonia. This means that it is not so great a sacrifice to use Nwg to
enter the North Sea and permit Eng to support Belgium. One catch is that
Nwg->Nth could bounce. The other catch is that Eng would still be in Eng,
where, I presume, you would rather it not be.
It is Hol sup Ruh->Bel that I dread. It's true that I think that
particular attack is less than 50-50.
>He did paint you as paranoid.
I always thought that I was less paranoid than the average player. However
I am risk-adverse in certain situations, which is not the same thing. The
three of us have Germany in such a bad situation that it seems unnecessary
to gamble on Belgium. We don't need to take a risk in order to gain an
advantage. As for your own development and growth, I think we can
guarantee that you will get either Belgium or Munich next year even if
Pic->Bur has to wait until spring.
> I really haven't had the interaction
>with him that you have had. Is he really that devious
>and non-trustworthy?
Neither especially up to now, but the situation has changed.
He was always very secretive. Never once did I know in advance what he was
going to do on his Russian front.
Germany tells me that he hopes to build two units this year! He has StP
and is looking at Warsaw or Moscow with Turkey's help. Surely he eyes
Belgium as well. I am helping Russia into Sweden, so that cancels
StP. Belgium can be protected, of course.
That leaves an interesting situation with respect to Turkey. Turkey may
indeed help Germany against Russia, if Turkey thinks that Germany is his
best hope for immediate help. Even if Turkey did attempt to help Germany
with Warsaw or Moscow, the attempt could fail depending on Russian and
Italian moves. Of course, I would rather not see Turkey depend on Germany
at all.
That leaves you in a key position. If you want a quick EFR dismantling of
Germany, then you may need to give Turkey some reassurances about how your
fleets are coming to the rescue and ask him not to help Germany. The
alternative, which I do not recommend 8-), is an FG alliance. Turkey knows
that French fleets will be rather late then, and he will have to hope for
German armies to rescue him.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> Once Italy gets his stalemate line, he can sit back smugly.
>
>> I don't think so. The odds are that I'll retake Sev, so the best Italy
>>can end up with is 14, and let's assume that I hold Russia and Swe for 5,
>>so that
>>leaves 16 Centers in the West, and the Title to you or France if you
>>eliminate the
>>other guy. This isn't a game where sitting behind a stalemate line is a
>>winning
>>strategy.
But if the three of us are fighting while Italy sits on 13 or 14 with his
stalemate line, one of us will eventually throw the game to Italy. He is
in a fantastic position if he is permitted to conquer Turkey.
Turkey is desperate. He has two hopes that he is working on (that I know
of), French fleets or German armies. There is consideration of supporting
Germany into either Warsaw or Moscow. Neither you nor I want that. Both
you and I want Turkey's rescue to be with French fleets (now) and Russian
armies (soon). Talk to France. Talk to Turkey. Diplomacy is very
important now.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>I would be remiss if I didn't point out that you and France supported
>each other last turn. BEL - HOL and PIC- BEL could be just what you
>guys have in mind.
I am very proud of that support from France. I pointed out to him with
precise logic that he had nothing to lose. If either you or I attacked
each other, then Burgundy was safe, and Picardy did not need to support
it. If you and I stayed allied, then Burgundy was lost even with support
form Picardy, because I would cut the support from the Channel. Thus, Pic
supp Bur was useless, and Pic supp Bel was risk free for France, and he
could have his choice of allies next turn. All true.
Now, though, the three of us are dancing around the new situation with
(from my point of view) all kinds of offers and counter offers being thrown
about.
As for Hol->Ruh->Bur plus Tyr-Pie, it was just a suggestion. I thought it
might be a good way to defend against France while inviting a renewed EG in
the spring. Also, it is really true that I would rather have Holland than
Sweden. Anyway, Russia does not want to support me into Sweden; he prefers
the opposite. Surprise, surprise.
Bel->Hol is not even being considered. If you did move Hol->Ruh->Bur, I
never expected you to tell me so in advance. Bel will hold with
support. I don't dare risk it. The only way I will lose Belgium would be
with a united FG effort, in which case I have no hope anyway.
>Your moves have merit, I'll wait for Turkey and get back to you.
>What I'd like to do though is keep the North Sea open. To do that I
>need to use DEN to bounce you from either NWG or ENG. Which means that
>I can't cover SWE. Which makes that a better place to give up than
>HOL.
Alas, if you tried to give me Sweden this turn, I would probably only
bounce with Russia. I am content to wait until next year to gain a
unit. As far as the North Sea goes, you will have seen that I cannot
support Belgium, attempt Sweden, and support myself into the North
Sea. Just not enough units!
Anyway, this is not about tactics. I am trying, once again, to find an
ally. Russia writes. You write. France has been a little quiet.
More later probably.
Ivy
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Do you have time to have a frank discussion about about
Germany, Italy, and England?
You seemed to have talked England and I into attacking
Germany, which would allow me to come put pressure on
Italy. The rumors are that you may help Germany against
Russia. I hope that this is not true. Russia and I are
your best bets to slowing down Italy.
Please tell me what you are considering. I do not want
our efforts to cancel each other out.
You do not know that Germany is hard to work with. I
think I remember your point that out to England and I :-)
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
I am leaning towards NwS -> Nth, Eng s Bel, Pic -> Bur,
Bel s Bur -> Ruh. I would ask Iri to move to Cly on the
way North.
It is obvious that Russia is worried about your fleets
being too close to him when Germany falls. I have the
same concerns :-)
The moves proposed above might lessen my push into the
Med., but not eliminate it. But I think that it is
probably worth it.
As for Germany building two:
1) I am writing now to Turkey. I think my relationship
with him comparable to yours, so together we may have
influence. We can share notes and effort.
2) I do not trust Germany.
3) Ha
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> So it's nothing personal. I just can't win if you do.
>
Fair enough.
>
> It was a tough call. I really wanted Russia to come down and help
> Turkey against you, but he'd have none of it.
>
Would it help if I agreed not to pursue any further Turkish centers beyond
Budapest until such time as you've dealt with Russia and gotten the West
straightened out?
> They're both supposed to take me out.
And you certainly can't win if this happens.
>
> You might have made a mistake by becoming the 800 lb gorilla.
>
I guess that begs the question, why would anybody try to take a banana from
an 800 lb gorilla? :)
> For the moment I think that we're antagonists.
I don't think being antagonists at this point is very good for either of us.
If indeed EF has formed and they see you as tied up with 'keeping Italy from
winning', they will just take advantage of the situation and your position
will crumble very fast (at least in my humble opinion). You may indeed keep
me from winning but you won't be doing yourself any favors.
Looking at the map, I would suspect to see Pic s Bel again and probably Bur
- Mun as well as Nor s Fin - Swe. It could get ugly.
> This could change. I'm burning no bridges (except Russia's)
>
Like I said before, peace with Germany is of utmost importance to me and I'm
willing to do anything to get it. Please let me know what I need to do to
give us an equal chance at winning this game. I certainly liked your
suggestion of us going both east and west at the same time. I'm willing to
curtail my Turkish activities if need be. Whatever, just let me know.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to England
>Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>Italy is in a fantastic position if he is permitted to conquer Turkey.
Agreed, but conquering Turkey is not a trivial
task, by any means, especially when the pressure is
coming from only one direction.
>Turkey is desperate. He has two hopes that he is working on (that I know
>of), French fleets or German armies. There is consideration of supporting
>Germany into either Warsaw or Moscow.
Please make it clear to Ali that Germany is
losing a Center this year, and two or three next
year. That makes Fredd much less attractive as a
Turkish savior.
>Talk to France. Talk to Turkey.
I am, and have been, and will continue to do so.
>Diplomacy is very important now.
When you're a three Center Russia, diplomacy is
always very important. 8-)
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali, My Friend,
If you have any influence with Fredd, I urge you
to convince him to abandon his ill-conceived attack on
Russia. (I do realize, though, that altering his
course is a near impossibility. His world-view is so
narrow that there seems to be no room for diverging
opinions.) England is moving Eng-Nth this Fall, and
supporting me into Swe, so I'm encouraging France to
send a Fleet or two into the Med. Next year I'll
support England into Den while he supports me back
into StP, and EF take Mun and/or Hol, so if you've
been considering supporting Fredd into Mos or War, I
urge you to reconsider, and to instead urge him to
move Lvn-Pru. Hell, if he moves out of StP, I'll
build an Army and send it south to reinforce your
position. Fredd claims he's motivated by concern
about Italy's solo potential, but if that were true,
he would have pulled out of Russia, so that I could
turn south. Instead he attacked StP and Mos, forcing
me to focus on the North. Please do not be deceived
by his claims that he has your best interest at heart.
His primary concern has been and remains, his own
growth.
Nick.
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>I am leaning towards NwS -> Nth, Eng s Bel, Pic -> Bur,
>Bel s Bur -> Ruh. I would ask Iri to move to Cly on the
>way North.
Iri cannot move to Clyde. If you want Iri out of your hair via a northern
route, then is Iri->NAO acceptable to you? I thought Wales might have been
a decent compromise, since it is more distant from MAO than Iri, and it
could go then north via London. I am not crazy about Iri->Lvp, but I do
not want to be overly stubborn about anything right now. The Italian
situation makes our decisions critical.
>It is obvious that Russia is worried about your fleets
>being too close to him when Germany falls. I have the
>same concerns :-)
Of course. So, what will my fleets do after Germany is dead and you and
Russia are both engaged against Italy?
That's a fair question, but it is somewhat secondary. If Italy gets much
more, then he has his stalemate line. He can muster an adequate rearguard
action using units gained from Turkey even as he eliminates the rest of Turkey.
I am not a stupid player who stubbornly fights a neighbor while someone on
the other side of the board is walking away with the game. I only do that
if I no longer have any stake in the outcome. As long as my strength is
comparable to the strength of those on the front line who are stopping
Italy from running away, I will happily sit on my hands.
I can envision a situation in which Germany is gone and Italy has been
halted and cut back to size. Then when EFRTI are roughly equal in size and
opportunity, we are in a new game. Alliances may then be altered. Who
knows. This game should proceed by elimination, one by one, not by someone
running away with victory while others squabble.
All this is speculation. However, I really think that stopping Italy is
mainly your responsibility. I recognize that it is more important for you
to get a build than me. I will be much more comfortable with giving you
Belgium next year if I see French fleets in the Med. after this turn.
>I am writing now to Turkey. I think my relationship
>with him comparable to yours, so together we may have
>influence. We can share notes and effort.
Good.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Please make it clear to Ali that Germany is
>losing a Center this year,
The best we can hope for is that Germany breaks even. He gains StP, while
losing Sweden. We have to hope that his units in Livonia and Tyrolia will
not be supported into a supply center by Turkey.
> When you're a three Center Russia, diplomacy is
>always very important. 8-)
If all this works out, Germany will be gone and you will be comparable to
EFI&T in strength. Then we can play musical chairs yet again.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
>Iri cannot move to Clyde.
oops, how silly of me. It must be comforting to know
that I have not been studying the territory near your
island :-) So it is unlikely that I am considering an
attack :-)
I am trying to be reasonable and flexible, like
suggesting that you stay in the Channel. However, I do
not want all your fleet in the south. Eng, Nth, Wal
makes me a bit uncomfortable, that is why I suggested
Clyde (withouth getting out the map).
Why were you unhappy with Liverpool? I am just curious.
If you have a understandable reason, then I can live with
Wales. Liverpool does have the advantage of being next
to Clyde, but not the MAO. If I agreed to be more
agressive with my fleets (in a southern direction) would
you be willing to accept Liverpool?
I understand and agree with everything that you said
about Italy, Belgium, and the Mediterranean. I do want a
new unit soon, to put in Marseilles. It is too bad that
it could not happen this year, but those are the breaks.
I am not going to ask you to give me Belgium without
something to replace it. That would be too obnoxious and
probably unreasonable as well.
So it looks like France is going to trust you one more
time. Please do not let us down this time. Also, thanks
for taking the first step, NAO -> NwS, Eng -> Nth. I did
also risk a better defense of Bur to support Bel, so I
guess that I made some effort. But your effort was the
bigger one. I realize that and appreciate it, and it
makes me believe that you will not let us down.
Le DAUPHIN
PS: For now my default orders are Pic -> Bur, Bur -> Ruh
I also believe that you will be happy with my fleets
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
Ah, the table is finally turned. You are now asking *ME*
to go to Munich for politically reasons :-) :-) I will
consider it. But I will probably keep my moves close to
the vest this season. I really do not know what to
expect from England and Germany.
Do you think that Turkey and Germany will team up? Or is
Germany headed around Switzerland? I have noted that
possibility.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
I think this is a very critical turn, so forgive me if I state the obvious.
Russia is fighting Germany.
I am fully committed to fighting Germany.
You need help with Italy fast.
It has to come from France.
I know that Germany is asking for support into Warsaw or Moscow or Vienna
in exchange for his help. That's not going to help you. If France stays
committed to a FER dismantling of Germany then Germany's help against Italy
will instantly evaporate. If France tries to throw in with Germany, then
the French fleets will stay in the Atlantic and the RE vs FG mess will do
you no good.
I suspect this note is superfluous, because France just has to be smart
enough to see the situation. I can guarantee that France and Russia will
both build next year, so additional help will be on the way.
If all this plays out as I hope it will, I see a situation where Germany is
gone, Italy is trimmed back to size, and there is rough parity between
EFRIT. Then we can play Diplomacy with the five of us. Musical chairs.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from Italy to France
>
> Ah, the table is finally turned. You are now asking *ME*
> to go to Munich for politically reasons :-) :-)
> I will consider it.
>
I don't expect that you will move there. I just want to be able to tell
Germany that you told me that you will move there. :)
> But I will probably keep my moves close to
> the vest this season. I really do not know what to
> expect from England and Germany.
>
Germany has hinted at an EF plan which goes along the lines of: EF take
Germany out while you head my way and England heads to northern Russia.
If you didn't tell him that, either he made it up himself or Ivy is leaking
more information than you'd care to know.
> Do you think that Turkey and Germany will team up? Or is
> Germany headed around Switzerland? I have noted that
> possibility.
>
Germany has told me flat out that the move to Tyrolia was an aggressive move
against me to make sure I didn't advance against Turkey too fast. Am I the
only who thinks I can't get much further against Turkey without a lot of
luck?
Always good to hear from you. I'll be very interested in your moves this
fall as they very well could turn the tide in this game. I imagine
everybody wants to be your friend right now. (I head the top of that list
btw.) I just hope you remember which power has been your friend the longest
and will continue to be your friend.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to England
>Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
> >Please make it clear to Ali that Germany is
> >losing a Center this year,
>
>The best we can hope for is that Germany breaks even.
Well, yes, but if you tell Ali that you're supporting
me into Swe this year, and we're taking Den, StP, plus Hol
and/or Mun next year, he has much less reason to support
Fredd into Mos/War/Vie.
>We have to hope that his units in Livonia and Tyrolia will
>not be supported into a supply center by Turkey.
I don't know that Ali has much motive to let Germany
grow while he's losing Centers himself, even if it does
keep Italy from growing. It doesn't improve Turkey's
long-term prospects at all. I certainly saw no reason to
do it.
> > When you're a three Center Russia, diplomacy is
> >always very important. 8-)
>
>If all this works out, Germany will be gone and you will be comparable to
>EFI&T in strength. Then we can play musical chairs yet again.
Yup, that's the goal. I won't, in all likelihood,
be remembered as the first Vermont Group Full Press
Champion, but hopefully people who read about 'titleist'
in the Showcase section of the Pouch will see that it's
possible to fight/negotiate your way out of a severely
precarious position where resigning or phoning in
your remaining moves might seem like the thing to do.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>Why were you unhappy with Liverpool? I am just curious.
>If you have a understandable reason, then I can live with
>Wales. Liverpool does have the advantage of being next
>to Clyde, but not the MAO. If I agreed to be more
>agressive with my fleets (in a southern direction) would
>you be willing to accept Liverpool?
It is just that this does not advance that fleet toward Germany, i.e. Nth,
Skag, Helgo.
The other moves -- NAO, Clyde(impossible), Wales, and Eng (with Eng->Nth)
-- move Iri closer to the action, which is German centers.
Nothing is more important than Italy now, so I will move Iri->Lvp. Also
Bel supp Bur->Ruh.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
>The other moves -- NAO, Clyde(impossible), Wales,
>and Eng (with Eng->Nth)
>-- move Iri closer to the action, which is German
>centers.
>Nothing is more important than Italy now, so I
>will move Iri->Lvp.
Go ahead and move to NAO, as long as you agree to move it
out to NwS, or Clyde if NwS is not available, next move.
Working efficiently is important, as long as it is
reasonable.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Observer to Observer
The following vgfp_titleist poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Okay, I think it's pretty clear that
Austria is not long for this world.
Care to guess who he is? If enough of
you vote, I'll reveal his identity after
he's eliminated. ;-)
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Allen Schweinsberg, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Eric Hunter, 1 votes, 14.29%
- Jeff Stephens, 1 votes, 14.29%
- Ken Lofgren, 1 votes, 14.29%
- Randy Hudson, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Rich Olver, 3 votes, 42.86%
- Roger Yonkoski, 1 votes, 14.29%
For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist
For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
My moves:
Nwg->Nth
Nwy->Nth
Bel h
Eng s Bel
Iri->NAO
That's far less aggressive than I thought I would be, but I know I would
not be getting a supply center no matter what I did. The only move that
might require explanation is the Iri move. It paves the way for NAO->Nwg
next year should it be clear that you and I were going to all out war. At
the same time it keeps an eye on France. Basically I am watching what
others are doing. France has given me far less clues than you. Strange,
after the last set of moves.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> Do you have time to have a frank discussion about about
> Germany, Italy, and England?
Absolutely. My apologies for not replying sooner after the results. I often
find it difficult to diplome on weekends. In any case, it should come as no
surprise to you that I welcome such frank discussions.
> You seemed to have talked England and I into attacking
> Germany, which would allow me to come put pressure on
> Italy. The rumors are that you may help Germany against
> Russia. I hope that this is not true. Russia and I are
> your best bets to slowing down Italy.
I couldn't agree more. I don't know where these "rumors" have come from since
this is in fact my very first press since the result. It is true that I had
suggested to Germany that I would support him against Vie if he moved to Tyr.
As I told you, I was grasping at any straw I could find.
As it stands, however, the broader strategic considerations are more important
than any single-center gain against Italy, and supporting Germany in any way
would be counter to those considerations. I will not be supporting Germany in
any way.
> Please tell me what you are considering. I do not want
> our efforts to cancel each other out.
I certainly share that concern! My actions will be 100% defensive. I will do
my best to withstand Italian attacks, and I will do nothing to hinder EF
efforts against Germany. I wasn't kidding when I said I consider a strong EF
to be my best chance to survive Italian aggression.
> You do not know that Germany is hard to work with. I
> think I remember your point that out to England and I :-)
Preaching to the choir, my friend. My efforts at getting EF together last
turn were genuine; it is my sincere hope (and expectation) that EF will cut
through Germany like a hot knife through butter, thereby allowing the
introduction of French forces into the Mediterranean.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
I haven't much time, so I will try to be brief. First off, though I was
encouraging you anti-German, I did not encourage Germany anti-English. My
desire is and has been to see England prevail in such a conflict, so I
certainly didn't want Germany attacking you first.
Next, although I did suggest to Germany last turn that I would support him to
Vie if he moved to Tyr, that would be counterproductive on my part. I
sincerely wish to see you and France join forces and prevail against the
German, and by extension, the Italian. I will not be supporting Germany in
any way.
I'll try to write more as time permits. Meanwhile, please rest assured that I
did not encourage EF cooperation only to leave you hanging. I will continue
to encourage France in a pro-English, anti-German direction. Likewise, I hope
you will encourage Russia in a pro-Turkish, anti-Italian direction.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
I am very relieved to hear your words concerning Germany.
I guess that I see the next phase of the game being EFRT
versus I&G. Feel free to encourage Germany to attack
Vienna, that keeps him away from my border and keeps
friction between I&G. Just do not actually support him.
Have you worked out your issues with Russia? I hope that
he will leave you Sevastopol for this year. I think that
he will. He cannot afford to let Germany get Moscow or
Warsaw.
I hope to begin to pressure Italy. I cannot wait until
it is too late for you. I would appreciate your not
trying to make Italy paranoid about me and trying to get
him to send fleets my way. The more effective my
actions, the better off you will be.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
I received a positive response from Turkey. He says that
he will not be helping Germany. Since you and I are
cooperating, he has not need to thwart our activities
against Germany. He was trying to work with Germany in
case you and I did not cooperate.
Did you get the same story?
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I haven't much time, so I will try to be brief.
>I'll try to write more as time permits.
There is no need to write again. I think all is OK and French fleets will
be sailing against Italy this turn. France, Russia, and I see the need to
put immediate pressure on Italy, and fuel for the fire has to come from
Germany.
>Likewise, I hope you will encourage Russia in a pro-Turkish, anti-Italian
>direction.
Russia will need a build first. That will happen next year. He should
send help, not because he is fond of you 8-) , but because he sees the
necessity of stopping Italy. You have a lot of mending to do if you want
Russian friendship far down the road.
Then again, maybe I am totally wrong about all of this. 8-) 8-)
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
> >Let's continue to work together and keep in touch.
Ivy is supporting Fin-Swe, and Eng-Nth this Fall.
Have you heard from Ali? I'm concerned that he might
support Germany into Mos, War or Vie, or that Fredd
might support Sev-Mos, or Gal-War. Please let Ali
know that EFR vs. G is for real, and suggest that he
insist on Tyl S Gal-Vie to compensate for the loss of
Bud. If you could tell him that you're sending a
Fleet East to help, and you need me around to balance
England, that would help to. Please let me know what
you're hearing.
Thanks,
Nick.
Message from England to France
>I received a positive response from Turkey. He says that
>he will not be helping Germany. Since you and I are
>cooperating, he has not need to thwart our activities
>against Germany. He was trying to work with Germany in
>case you and I did not cooperate.
He said the same to me. My message to Turkey was brief. It said that you
and I and Russia saw the need for immediate pressure on Italy and that fuel
for the fire had to come from Germany.
My moves are in. Iri->NAO, Bel supp bur-Ruh, eng s Bel, nwg-Nth, nwy sup
fin->swe.
Ivy
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>Please let Ali
>know that EFR vs. G is for real
I have already done so. I did stress the importance of
his not helping Germany. He stated that he will not do
so. I think it reasonable that if he wants me to put
pressure on Italy, that he cannot be helping Germany
grow.
Turkey assure me that he will not help Germany.
I do think that you should let him keep Sev for this year
as it is not worth the risk of losing Mos or War. We do
not want Germany to get a build! Neither of us, EFR will
net anything from Germany, but we will gain positionally
on him, which is more important. We do not want him to
net any centers, that could be a royal pain in the
behind.
--Xavier
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
Time is short, so I must be brief. Germany has requested support of Lvn-War,
which I have declined. I did suggest to Germany last turn that I would
support him to Vie if he moved to Tyr, but that would be counter-productive of
me. I will not be supporting Germany in any way. I sincerely hope that you
and England will coordinate as effectively as possible for both your benefits.
Of immediate interest, my best bet to get Sev-Rum is to support from Gal &
Bul, but both supports can be cut. Rather than try and force Sev-Rum, then
disband Gal, I'm wondering about Sev S Gal-Rum, then disbanding Sev. It is
very important to me that I not do anything to further damage my relations
with Russia, so if this does not meet your approval please let me know, and
I'll order Gal S Sev-Rum.
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali
Message from Russia to France and Turkey
>Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>Turkey assure me that he will not help Germany.
That's good, I wonder why I haven't heard from
him?
>I do think that you should let him keep Sev for this year
>as it is not worth the risk of losing Mos or War. We do
>not want Germany to get a build!
Thoughts of taking Sev this year stopped when
Fredd ordered Lvn-Mos, rather than Lvn-StP. I'll
retake StP before I even consider taking Sev, and
I'll only do it then if we can get Turkey Bud, Vie
or Tri in exchange.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> Have you worked out your issues with Russia? I hope that
> he will leave you Sevastopol for this year. I think that
> he will. He cannot afford to let Germany get Moscow or
> Warsaw.
I hope so too. I've done my best to mend fences with Russia, and will
continue to do so. I've got a lot of damage to make up for, though.
> I hope to begin to pressure Italy. I cannot wait until
> it is too late for you. I would appreciate your not
> trying to make Italy paranoid about me and trying to get
> him to send fleets my way. The more effective my
> actions, the better off you will be.
I have not written Italy since just after his stab. I fear that no good would
come of it. In any case, I will not urge him to do anything at all, least of
all anything that might possibly blunt your own attacks. I look forward to
seeing effective French fleet attacks into the Med as quickly as possible.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Italy to Russia
If you're interested, Budapest and Serbia might be talked into supporting
Ukraine to Rumania.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to England, France, and Russia
Gentlemen,
I'm writing to confirm what I've told each of you privately: I will not
support Germany, and I strongly urge cooperation between the three of you to
change the direction of the game. I am hopeful that I can mend my fences with
Russia, and make up for my past transgressions.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to France and Russia
Gents,
> That's good, I wonder why I haven't heard from
> him?
My apologies for this. I wasn't able to get time over the weekend to diplome
(this is often the case for me). Today, I find myself busier than usual and
again had difficulty sending press. So, I wasn't able to write everyone at
the same time as I usually try to do.
In any case, I will behave. I am greatly in favor of FERT cooperation, and I
will not do anything to disrupt progress in that direction.
In haste,
Ali
Message from Russia to Turkey
>Message from Turkey to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>I will not be supporting Germany in any way. I
>sincerely hope that you and England will coordinate
>as effectively as possible for both your benefits.
Good, glad to hear it. Ivy and I are in agreement
for the next three turns, though only time will tell
if he's telling the truth. I believe he is, though,
it's in his best interest.
>I'm wondering about Sev S Gal-Rum, then disbanding Sev
As long as Sev and Gal don't attack or support
attacks on Mos and War, nothing you do will displease
me. Do whatever you think gives you the best chance
against Italy. I have to spend next year attacking
Germany, but I have encouraged France to move a Fleet
or Fleets into the Med this Fall to ease Italy's
pressure on you.
Nick.
Message from Russia to Italy
>Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>If you're interested, Budapest and Serbia might be talked into supporting
>Ukraine to Rumania.
It's interesting, but I fear I have to deal
with the German presence in StP first. Maybe next
year.
In Haste,
Nick.
Message from Master to all
I'm back and I see everything went smoothly in my absence. Maybe
I should take more golf vacations . . .
Doug
Message from Italy to Master
>
> I'm back and I see everything went smoothly in my absence.
>
Not quite. The judge was down most of the weekend. I don't think anybody
has asked for a deadline extension though.
Roberto
Message from Master to all
S1905R processed on Saturday; this is a -MTWTF- 48 hour game; I thought
that would put the next deadline on Tuesday night. I guess not though;
Monday night deadlines are allowed and it is 48 hours after the last
deadline, so it passed through.
How would I set deadlines such that a deadline would fall on a Monday
only if the previous moves processed Thursday or earlier? IOW, so that
every movement deadline followed at least two full weekdays . . .
Anyway, I'm moving *this* deadline to tomorrow night.
Doug
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
> Good, glad to hear it. Ivy and I are in agreement
> for the next three turns, though only time will tell
> if he's telling the truth. I believe he is, though,
> it's in his best interest.
I believe so as well. I've been encouraging Ivy for some time to cooperate
with you against Germany. I take it the deal is that you'll take Swe this
year, then you support him to Den while he supports you to StP. I strongly
encourage this plan, and I will encourage it to Ivy as well.
> As long as Sev and Gal don't attack or support
> attacks on Mos and War, nothing you do will displease
> me.
In that case, you will be pleased with my orders. I will certainly not do
anything that affects either Mos or War.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England, France, and Russia
Gents,
I'd like some input if you have the time. I have been considering Gal/Bul S
Sev-Rum, but Italy could defeat that and take Rum. I can't use Bla, since
that would risk losing Bul. A stronger defense of Rum would be Sev S
Gal-Rum, but that could well remove my army from Gal. On the other hand, I
had also been considering Gal as my likely disband choice this year.
However, I am reluctant to give up the tactical advantages of having an army
in Gal.
Either way, my orders will not be in any way anti-Russian; I will not
attack, nor support attack against, War or Mos.
I realize the burden of defending my country falls to me. However, I very
much hope that the next few years will see greater cooperation between the
four of us, and I definitely want my actions to be consistent with such
cooperation. So, if you have any thoughts, requests or suggestions, they
would be most welcome.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
Sory for the delay in my reply. It's often difficult for me to diplome on
weekends.
In any case, I really cannot support you against Russia at this point. Even
with German help, if Russia joins Italy against me, I won't stand a chance.
However, I did promise support against Vie, and that certainly seems like a
viable option. Of course, it would be fairly easy for Italy to defend
against it. I do like the possibility of attacking Ven, since it weakens
his position in Austria, and certainly if you got into Venice you could
wreak all kinds of havoc.
In any case, if you want support for Tyr-Vie, please just let me know.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
I did have one other thought, and it is this. The most obvious German
attacks are to Ven, or to Vie with support. The logical defense against
that is Tri-Ven, Bud S Vie. That would leave Italy open to Tyr-Tri.
Italy's only counter to that is Ser-Tri; but if you don't attack Tri, then
that risks me moving Bul-Ser.
In any case, it occurs to me that Trieste, though an unlikely-looking
target, might actually be a reasonable choice. Any thoughts? I'm beginning
to consider making more aggressive (and risky) moves agaisnt Italy, rather
than simply defending, on the basis that Roberto might protect all assets
against A Tyr. I have no doubt that he is using diplomatic channels to make
Tyr go away quietly. Perhaps this could give us some advantage?
Anyway, please write with your thoughts at your earliest convenience.
Ali
Message from Germany to Turkey
I'm going to stick with my original premise for another round of
press. That's the one where you help me into WAR or MOS. I'd like to
point out that if we do this, and I stay in STP, and England doesn't
support Russia to SWE, then Russia will be down to one unit.
A couple of points on that; why would England support Russia against
me? Certainly it'll weaken me, but to what advantage to England. I'd
just disband my army in Tyrolia. Italy would go unchecked while I
fought England.
Russia can't dislodge STP without English help. I've given Ivy the
option of taking SWE instead of dislodging STP. That keeps me at the
same size, and Ivy builds one, Russia loses one. So Russia is down to
two. If we take another, he's down to one. Not even a threat, and
you'll have real help from the west.
Your TYR - TRI move is a good idea. I also like TYR - PIE. Leaves me
open to either move an army to MUN or build one there, and put two
armies on Italy.
Conversely, you saw how Russia tried to move all of his units in my
direction last time. If I have to fight him, I can't put any pressure
on Italy.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
> That's far less aggressive than I thought I would be, but I know I
> would not be getting a supply center no matter what I did.
What about my suggestion of taking SWE? There's a build. If you take
SWE then you can't support Russia against me in STP.
Turkey isn't cooperating with me about supporting me into either WAR or
MOS. But it's still a win for me if I take STP and you take SWE. I
wouldn't build. But Russia would lose one. That's a gain for me. I'd
request that you not use that build against me of course. I'll even go
so far as to support you in, if you'll promise to self-bounce in the
North Sea.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
> Would it help if I agreed not to pursue any further Turkish centers
> beyond Budapest until such time as you've dealt with Russia and
> gotten the West straightened out?
I'm afraid not. I guess he would lives by the sword dies by the sword.
Meaning that you've lied (although not to me) in the past. I would be
remiss if I didn't take that into consideration.
I can point you in a better direction for your diplomatic efforts. I've
told France and England that if they take a bite out of me, my first
disband will be that army in TYR.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
> Anyway, Russia does not want to support me into Sweden; he prefers
> the opposite. Surprise, surprise.
I'm rolling on the floor.
>
> Anyway, this is not about tactics. I am trying, once again, to
> find an ally. Russia writes. You write. France has been a little
> quiet.
Well we have another day, now. If you offer to not knock me out of
STP, and don't want SWE, I'll take it. I would still use the build to
build an army and move it south. I'd also give up SWE or HOL to you
the following year, provided the North Sea stays clear. (Weren't we at
this spot 3 years ago? ;-)
What do you think will happen with I vs T if no one else interferes?
I'm basing all of my offers and possible moves on my theory that Italy
will overrun Turkey. And Turkey will be down to 3 units within 2 years.
Italy is basically offering me the world to stay out of his hair.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Kind Neighbor:
(Thought that I'd try something different)
Looks like we have another day. Which I could use. I haven't agreed
with anyone on anything yet. Which is good for FG.
England's offers are puzzling, because it appears that his plan is to do
nothing.
Russia and I really dislike each other. There's no chance I'll do
anything there but try to grab a center of his.
You'd think that Turkey would be happy to get my help, and be suggesting
ways to get more of it, but he's not.
Italy is offering the world to me if I'll pull out of TYR. Too bad I
don't think that he should be trusted. I did point out that he should
point his diplomatic arrows at a better target than me. I mentioned
that if E or F take a bit out of me I'll disband that TYR army first.
Maybe you should expect a barrage of press from Italy exorting you to
attack Germany. There are some advantages to being the player in the
middle.
Fredd
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> I'm afraid not. I guess he would lives by the sword dies by
> the sword.
I appreciate the answer but you leave me no choice then but to forcefully
remove the unit at the first opportunity.
> Meaning that you've lied (although not to me) in the past.
>
Who hasn't?
Roberto
Message from Italy to Turkey
For whatever reason, Germany has decided to be a thorn in my side. For my
sake, let's hope I guess correctly this turn. If not, you'll probably win
the game. I tip my hat to you if you somehow influenced Mun->Tyr.
Roberto
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
I'm watching Monday Night Football and typing this during commercials, so
this may not be my most coherent letter.
>What do you think will happen with I vs T if no one else interferes?
>I'm basing all of my offers and possible moves on my theory that Italy
>will overrun Turkey.
Yes, and get a 13-14 center stalemate line as well. It's really been on my
mind, but what should I be doing about it?
>What about my suggestion of taking SWE? ... I'll even go
>so far as to support you in, if you'll promise to self-bounce in the
>North Sea.
I could really get screwed doing this. If I try Nor->Swe and bounce myself
in Nth, then I can't protect Belgium. You could take Belgium while
bouncing me (and Russia too?) in Sweden.
I could try Nor-Swe and Nwg->Nth. That would require you to decide what to
do with Den. It would most likely end with you and I bouncing in Nth and
Russia and I bouncing in Swe. I don't like that much either. Russia is
already fed up with my refusing to help him for so long. It's one thing
for you to bounce him out of Sweden; it's another for me to do it. I am
trying not to burn too many bridges.
>Well we have another day, now. If you offer to not knock me out of
>STP, and don't want SWE, I'll take it.
Denver's McCafferty just broke his leg. Looks very, very bad.
I am not touching StP. I'll sleep on Sweden. I am trying to get France to
support Belgium again, but he has some strange ideas. Round and round we
go.
Tomorrow.
Ivy
Message from Germany to Italy
> > Meaning that you've lied (although not to me) in the past.
> >
>
> Who hasn't?
You've been particularly good at it :-0 (that's a compliment)
Fredd
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
> Message from Turkey to Russia, England and France in 'titleist':
> if you have any thoughts, requests or suggestions, they
> would be most welcome.
Roberto offered to support Ukr-Rum, so he may be more
concerned about GA Tyl, than about pressing the attack against
you. If I had to defend Bul and Rum, however, I would order:
Smy - Aeg (Aeg-Bul/SC seems unlikely.)
Ank-Smy (Just in case. 8-)
Con S Bul
Bul S Sev-Rum
Bla S Sev-Rum
Gal -Bud (Bud-Rum seem VERY unlikely, so you might
as well cut support.)
(This is just the approach I would take, I'm not saying it's
better than yours, or any more likely to succeed, or that I'll be
offended if you do something else.)
(Well, I'll be offended if you do Sev-Mos, Gal-War, but you'd
expect that. ;-)
Nick.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Just to confirm that I am ordering Bur -> Ruh and Pic->
Bur and that you are supporting Bel, not me. Also,
fleets -> Med.
I trust that you are trying to give Italy the impression
that all's quiet on the Med. front? I will have a hard
time making progress against him. We want as much
advantage to stalemate his situation with Turkey as
possible.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Germany
Dear Neighbor:
>(Thought that I'd try something different)
I thought that I would go you one better :-)
>Looks like we have another day. Which I could use.
Indeed.
>I haven't agreed with anyone on anything yet.
>Which is good for FG.
Agreeing with France would be much better for FG,
actually. Will you support Burgundy to Belgium?
I guess that I could support it myself and then we would
just bounce, if you decide to make a grab for it.
But there are better plans, ones that would assure that
the army is destroyed.
>England's offers are puzzling, because it appears that
>his plan is to do nothing.
You are smart enough to read between those lines.
>Italy is offering the world to me if I'll pull out of
>TYR. Too bad I don't think that he should be trusted.
>I did point out that he should point his diplomatic
>arrows at a better target than me. I mentioned
>that if E or F take a bit out of me I'll disband that
>TYR army first. Maybe you should expect a barrage of
>press from Italy exorting you to attack Germany.
He wants me to attack Munich. I told him that I will
consider it. I have not yet made up my mind.
>There are some advantages to being the player in the
>middle.
Presumeably you mean that you get more press, and stress
I imagine.
Bottom line, do you want my help against Italy? Then you
need to offer me Belgium. Since France seems to be your
last option, I am putting my efforts elsewhere. If you
want to work with France, you will have to put forth the
effort to talk me into it.
Until such time I will probably follow England's plan and
do very little, other than perhaps a beer run.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England and Russia
Ivy & Nick:
So, while Germany sorts through his "many" offers and
makes us all "wait" for him to decide what he will do, I
thought that I would write to you and say hello. :-)
He has continually done this, made it clear that *he* is
the one deciding what will occur and that he has many
options. In past seasons, I had to patiently wait and
hope to get him to discuss siding with me - which in the
end never were completed. This season, I have the luxury
of just smiling and not worrying about him.
A quote that basically sums up his attitude, "I haven't
agreed with anyone on anything yet." I will not repeat
the unfriendly things that he said about you two. I am
sure that he says similar things to you about me.
Is it bad to look forward to seeing him crushed between
us?
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England, Germany, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Just to let you know that I will likely be unavailable
tonight. Any thing that you need to be work out with
France, please try to do before the standard workday
ends.
Merci,
France
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>Just to confirm that I am ordering Bur -> Ruh and Pic->
>Bur and that you are supporting Bel, not me. Also,
>fleets -> Med.
Confirmed. My moves were in a long time ago.
>I trust that you are trying to give Italy the impression
>that all's quiet on the Med. front?
I sent him one message and never heard back from him.
> I will have a hard
>time making progress against him. We want as much
>advantage to stalemate his situation with Turkey as
>possible.
The Italian/Turkish situation truly worries me. Italy could be building
fresh troops back home as fast as you and Russia can bring your forces to
bear. I even thought about handing you Belgium one turn early so you could
build a fleet in Marseilles immediately, but that can't be done without
destroying my Belgium army. That would just slow our conquest of Germany
and cause us too much grief down the road.
Ivy
Message from England to France and Russia
>So, while Germany sorts through his "many" offers and
>makes us all "wait" for him to decide what he will do, I
>thought that I would write to you and say hello. :-)
I have had to write back and forth to Germany, pretending to consider his
offers. Since I cannot support myself into the North Sea, my goal is to
get him to try to bounce Finland away from Sweden instead of successfully
bouncing me in the North Sea. Germany is (or is pretending) to offer me
Sweden. His goal is probably to get ME to bounce Finland.
Ivy
Message from England to France, Russia, and Turkey
To Ali:
>I'd like some input if you have the time. I have been considering Gal/Bul S
>Sev-Rum, but Italy could defeat that and take Rum. I can't use Bla, since
>that would risk losing Bul. A stronger defense of Rum would be Sev S
>Gal-Rum, but that could well remove my army from Gal.
Sev s gal->rum is the move that insures no additional loses this
year. Risking Bulgaria or Rumania with one of the other moves could be
considered, provided guessing correctly might produce a significant change
in next year's result. But I don't see any upside. I think Italy gets
Romania next year no matter what happens this year, and the loss of Romania
or Bulgaria this year is a huge downside.
You can at least hope that Italy will not try Vie->Gal this turn because of
the German army in Tyrolia.
To the best of my knowledge help is on the way.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and France
>Message from France to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
>[Germany] has continually made it clear that *he* is the one deciding what
>will occur and that he has many options. A quote that basically sums up
>his attitude, "I haven't agreed with anyone on anything yet."
Perhaps Ivy has seen a different side of him,
since they were actually allied for a while, but I
noticed this, in my mind, unusual attitude, as well.
I have a reputation as a "determined" negotiator,
but that is because I look at a situation, and try
to find a solution that benefits both sides, and
I'm reluctant to change that solution if I see the
change as less effective. Fredd seems to decide
what he wants, and insist on that, regardless of
the fact that the person he's "negotiating" with
has other concerns that his "solution" doesn't
address. Ah well.
>Is it bad to look forward to seeing him crushed between us?
If it is, then I'm bad as well.
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
>I even thought about handing you Belgium one turn early
>so you could build a fleet in Marseilles immediately,
>but that can't be done without destroying my Belgium
>army. That would just slow our conquest of Germany
>and cause us too much grief down the road.
The only options are:
1)Pic -> Bel s by Bur, Bel -> Eng -> Pic
2)Pic -> Bel s by Eng, Bel -> Bur, Bur -> Pic
3)Bur -> Bel s by Eng, Bel -> Pic, Pic -> Bur
That puts us at less of a beneficial position relative to
Germany, but does improve my strength relative to Italy.
Three fleets in the Med might actually make progress.
I realize that there are disadvantages to you. But I am
basically allowing your army into France, which is a risk
for me. A chance I am willing to take. But you need to
be willing to take your accept the loss of a unit. I
leave it up to you to ponder. Any of the above could be
bounced by Germany. They all do keep Belgium safe
though. Either I get it or you keep it.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Russia to England and France
>Message from England to France and Russia in 'titleist':
>
>Since I cannot support myself into the North Sea, my goal is to get him to
>try to bounce Finland away from Sweden instead of successfully bouncing me
>in the North Sea.
Ummm, why can't you support yourself into Nth?
Nick.
Message from France to England and Russia
Nick:
CC: Ivy
>Ummm, why can't you support yourself into Nth?
He can, if he chooses to give up other options. In the
far west hear, we have given higher priority to those
other options. But things will continue to be discussed
until later this evening. (I may have limited time this
evening afterall.)
Xavier
Message from Russia to England and France
>Message from France to Russia and England in 'titleist':
>
> >Ummm, why can't you support yourself into Nth?
>He can, if he chooses to give up other options. In the
>far west hear, we have given higher priority to those
>other options. But things will continue to be discussed until later this
>evening.
I actually concluded that the two of you had
decided to do something else with F Eng and/or
F Nwg. Given that Ivy mentioned Nwg-Bar at one
point, however, and then rejected it in favor of
Nwg S Eng-Nth, I wanted to find out what had
changed, and make sure Nwg-Bar wasn't back on the
table. You don't really think I'd leak your plans
to Fredd, do you?
Nick.
Message from France to England and Russia
Nick:
>You don't really think I'd leak your plans
>to Fredd, do you?
No.
But at the same time, I try to be sensitive about not
revealing someone else's plans (England's), without their
permission.
Although I think that we can trust each other, it buys us
nothing to reveal plans near the North Sea and Moscow.
So let's keep some suspense and surprise! :-)
Best of luck. I look forward to seeing what happens.
--Xavier
Message from Germany to France
When will you be back online?
My number one option is still to support you to BEL. I'm not planning
on putting my orders in until tonight though. I'm waiting on Ali. I
want him to support me into WAR or MOS, but he's waffling. If he
doesn't do that why should I help him with Italy? And if I'm not
attacking Italy that changes everything, for a lot of people.
I guess that I'll just be late.
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>When will you be back online?
My complications are somewhat relieved. I should be
on-line sporadically all day.
>I guess that I'll just be late.
I am sure that we can talk enough that you can avoid
this.
So if Turkey will not help you against Russia, then what
are your plans?
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Germany must be putting pressure on you to support him to
Moscow or Warsaw, or at least that is the impression that
he is giving me. Does he not realize you could lose Rum
or Bul by agreeing to help him?
Maybe it is best to simply agree to help him, but send
Russia a note letting him know that you actually will not
do so. Of course then you do not help him. That gets
him off your back, may keep him from doing something more
drastic than we like in the north or south, and will keep
him focussed on Italy for you.
I know that this may burn a bridge with him, but you know
how difficult he is to deal with. He will have no allies
and will be going down. Those are the bridges that can
be burnt in favor survival. Russia and I need to make
progress before it is too late to help you.
Let me know your thoughts.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
There was no major secret about what the Channel was doing. It was going
to support Belgium, so that Picardy could go for Burgundy. Now France and
I are thinking of something very tricky on the French border that may
change the Channel's assignment.
Anyway, Nwg->Nth is a given.
Ivy
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
You can see what a lousy tactician I am. I really thought that I would
have to destroy the army to give you Belgium.
The first option will do, **IF** I can work up the courage.
I will be tied up today between 11:30 and 3:30 and again from 5:30 to about
9:00. I hope this leaves us enough time to communicate about any
changes. Who knows, maybe the Nation's entire infrastructure will have
collapsed by then.
Ivy
>1)Pic -> Bel s by Bur, Bel -> Eng -> Pic
>
>That puts us at less of a beneficial position relative to
>Germany, but does improve my strength relative to Italy.
>Three fleets in the Med might actually make progress.
>
>I realize that there are disadvantages to you. But I am
>basically allowing your army into France, which is a risk
>for me. A chance I am willing to take. But you need to
>be willing to take your accept the loss of a unit. I
>leave it up to you to ponder. Any of the above could be
>bounced by Germany. They all do keep Belgium safe
>though. Either I get it or you keep it.
>
>Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
If we do this, maybe you will consider Brest->MAO on top of everything
else. You wouldn't have to tell me. That would really get Italy's attention.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
>Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>Anyway, Nwg->Nth is a given.
I imagined as much, but felt it wouldn't hurt
to confirm.
Message from Russia to all
Like much of the rest of the country, my
workplace is shutting down in response to the
reported terrorist attacks in New York and
Washington D.C. I'll be back online once I
get out of town, and back home. (Nick shakes
his head, "The chances of a terrorist targeting
the town I work in, let alone the building I
work in, is exactly zero, but I suppose that
since everyone is watching TV and listening to
the radio, rather than working, it makes a
certain amount of sense.)
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
>If we do this, maybe you will consider Brest->MAO
I am willing to consider it. I of course worry about
your quick grab at one of my centers, while I hurt my
relationship with Italy. But I think that you realize
that in the long run, this would be a bad idea for you.
I can give Italy time to finish off Turkey, and probably
help him take a couple of my centers.
I too am getting worried about Italy, as I look at the
situation. 1 build this year, another next year. He
might be able to put up a defensive front against me and
still slowly grind Turkey into elimination. We do need
to get a move on.
How about I dust off my 4-sided die and move to MAO on 3
chances in 4? :-) That leaves a little uncertainy for
you, but most likely accomplishes your request.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Italy to all
We are taking a break. I cannot give you a timeline of when I will be back
online. There are no words to describe the events of today.
Message from Master to all
Agreed. I've moved the deadline way out and set wait; we'll talk about
resuming this game at some time in the future. I have a brother who on
occasion has to work at the Pentagon and I'm not interested in doing
anything until I hear from him.
Doug
Message from Turkey to all
I cannot begin to describe the mortification, grief and fury that course
through me on this blackest of days. I, too, will unavailable until further
notice.
Message from Germany to France
Looks like it's best to just postpone this game for awhile.
Fredd
Message from Russia to all
I Wrote >
> I'll be back online once I get out of town, and back home.
In the unlikely event that anyone was even remotely concerned
about my safety based on my last message, don't be. I'm home,
and fine.
Russia.
Message from England to all
I am willing to
a) resume "titleist" anytime, whether it be now, a week from now, a month
from now, ... whatever.
b) terminate the game if someone is so personally affected that continuing
would be inappropriate.
Ivy
Message from Germany to all
My suggestion would be to just leave this alone through the coming
weekend. Then set a deadline of Wed midnight for the next moves.
Fredd
Message from France to all
I agree with the German proposal. Next week seems like
an appropriate time to start thinking about a game again.
It may be nice to have a friendly diversion from all
these troubles. However, I think that we may want to
slow things down for a little while, perhaps adjusting
the deadlines to 72 hours, as we will all be distracted.
However, if Doug, or any single person is not ready to
start, for any reason. Then I am willing to allow them
an unquestioned veto for the start date (for as long as
necessary).
May God, Buddha, or wherever we draw our religious or
philosophical strength watch over each of us.
--Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
I'll set the next deadline for the latest date that any player
requests, but will move to 72 hour deadlines only by unanimous
consent of all players (I'd still like to finish by December,
though, since the next full-press tournament should being in
early 2002 -- so I'd personally rather stay with 48 hours).
Please press to m with your opinion on both matters; all player
requests will be private.
Doug
Message from Russia to Master
>Broadcast message from masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master in 'titleist':
>
>I'll set the next deadline for the latest date that any player
>requests, but will move to 72 hour deadlines only by unanimous
>consent of all players (I'd still like to finish by December,
>though, since the next full-press tournament should being in
>early 2002 -- so I'd personally rather stay with 48 hours).
We were basically ready for the turn to process,
so I would think a deadline of Monday 9/17 @ 23:30
would be sufficient. I don't think an extension to
72 hour deadlines is necessary, but I don't object
to it.
Eric.
Message from England to Master
Doug,
I can play anytime. I vote for the current 48 hour deadline. If there are
only one or two persons who want 48 hours, then I would be willing to
change my mind.
Allen
p.s. Joanne and I may take a vacation out of the country next summer. I
am thinking that a two week absence might be tolerated by fellow gamers in
the 2002 full-press tournament, but that three weeks might be too much. Do
you have any guidelines on this?
Last year we were in Scandinavia and met up with Klas Forsberg in
Stockholm. Had a great time.
Message from France to all
I am not suggesting or even requesting a permanent
deadline change to 72 hours. I was suggesting that in
the first week or so after we continue, that we may want
to proceed slowly. I do not think that settings changes
are necessary.
Since, I am voting against changing the game to 72 hours,
there is no need for anyone else to vote. All I ask is
that we adjust the first few deadlines *if* it seems
appropriate.
Thanks,
France
Message from France to Master
Doug:
I prefer next Tuesday as the earliest that the deadline
should be set. Any time after that is fine with me.
I should mention that I cannot connect to the Internet
through my dial-up connection at home. AT&T says they
are working on these problems, but gave no time frame.
Until that is fixed, I ask for flexibility on Monday
movement deadlines (I might only have 8 hours total of
negotiating time). Hopefully it will never be a factor,
as they will fix the problem soon. I will let you know
as soon as I can connect from home.
Thanks,
Roger
Message from Germany to Master
Doug:
I'd like a 72 hour deadline, but only for the next board year.
My suggestion for the next deadline is next Wed. 11:55 pm EST.
Germany
Message from Turkey to all
I am ready to resume the game at any time. My orders for fall are confirmed.
Ali
Message from Russia to all
>Broadcast message from Turkey in 'titleist':
>
>I am ready to resume the game at any time. My orders for fall are
>confirmed.
My orders are in as well.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Just to confirm, I've ordered Fin-Swe, expecting
Nwy S Fin-Swe, Nwg-Nth.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
Just to confirm what you already know, I am acting purely defensively, and
will not trouble War or Mos.
Ali
Message from Master to all
I've set the deadline for F1905M to Thursday evening. If anyone would
like more time for this or the next few deadlines, let me know.
Doug
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Just to confirm, I've ordered Fin-Swe, expecting
>Nwy S Fin-Swe, Nwg-Nth.
And that is what I will do.
Ivy
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
Looks like we are starting up again. I haven't given "titleist" a minute's
thought since we halted. I will look at the proposed sacrifice that would
give you an extra fleet and get back to you.
This is going to be a very busy day, so you may not hear from me again
until tomorrow.
Ivy
Message from England to all
We are starting again, apparently.
I haven't given any thought to "titleist" since we halted. It just doesn't
feel the same. The often used phrase, "it's just a game," never meant more
than it does now. So let's "play" and play well, knowing more than ever
that it is just recreation. Recreation still has its place.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I am ready when you are. Take care of your real life
things first, write when you can.
I know it is just a game. I am half tempted to try and
enjoy it as much as possible by working with those who
make it the most fun. If you are ready to make a long
term commitment to work with France, let me know. But I
do not want to seem to be trying to take advantage of the
tragedy. It is hard though not to let it influence my
outlook and preferences. Perhaps taking things slowly at
first makes the most sense.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to all
I am available and ready to continue. I too am
struggling getting back into the game. I suppose that it
will improve with time. I apologize in advance if my
presentation and attention suffers for a while.
I may need a little more time before removing my set
wait. Negotiations were not complete last Tuesday when
it suddenly no longer matter.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I believe that we left things with your promising to get
back to me.
--Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I only look at Titleist at home. Before coming home from work today, I
made plans for the whole evening. Starting in about 10 minutes.
Can this wait until Wed?
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>Can this wait until Wed?
I guess by default it must :-) :-)
I would wish you a good time, but it is already too late.
So I will hope that you had a good time.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
According to the Dauphin, we have two options on the
table:
Option 1: F Eng s A Bel, A Bur -> Ruh s by Bel, Pic ->
Bur,
Option 2: A Pic -> Bel s by Bur, A Bel -> Eng -> Pic, F
Eng c A Bel -> Pic
In both cases Ir -> NAO, NwS -> Nth, MAO -> WES, Por ->
Spa (sc), Bre rolls a die for hold/MAO
Option 1 makes better progress against Germany (unless he
supports Ruh from Hol). Option 2 gives me better
resources for trying to prevent Italy from getting too
strong. He will certainly be building another fleet with
Budapest SC. Italy can defend his centers from Germany.
I am not certain which is best. If you prefer Option 2,
but are nervous about France, do not be. If France
wanted to take advantage of England, we could do so with
either option. The reverse is true as well. We each
know that this is a recipe for an unbeatable Italy. He
may not win, but he will be impossible to prevent from
being the largest power in any draw. The only hope would
be to beat him to 18 centers, but with his head start,
forget it. Therefore I am very committed.
France's point is that we are comfortable with either
option. Choose the one that makes the most strategic
sense and do not worry about France taking advantage of
you, we will NOT!
If it is possible to decide soon, that will allow me to
decide what to tell Germany. If I am taking Belgium, I
will tell him that and ask him for support. :-) If it
is the other, then I will ask him for the same support
but tell him that I may go for Munich as well, I have not
yet decided.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
Let's go for option two in which I voluntarily hand over Belgium via a
convoy to Picardy. If nothing else, it is more dramatic and it will
entertain the observers.
Is it good diplomacy? I'm not sure. I can't tell if Italy can withstand a
full attack by French fleets. He still might be able to hold you off while
chewing up Turkey. His weak area should be in the vicinity of
Piedmont. Can Russia ever spare an army or two to hit Italy from the
north? Not clear. I could even consider an arrangement with Germany if
that is what it would take to bring down Italy, but we are not there
yet. But I will be very disappointed if observers watch one country run
away with a high-level game so easily.
What is clear is that we can stop Italy from winning outright, and any set
of half decent players should do that much.
>Option 2: A Pic -> Bel s by Bur, A Bel -> Eng -> Pic, F
>Eng c A Bel -> Pic
>
>In both cases Ir -> NAO, NwS -> Nth, MAO -> WES, Por ->
>Spa (sc), Bre rolls a die for hold/MAO
If that die doesn't come up "MAO" I will be very disappointed. 8-)
>I am not certain which is best. If you prefer Option 2,
>but are nervous about France, do not be.
I'm not nervous, because I don't feel that I am risking much. As you point
out, you could take Belgium anyway. The right thing for "experts" to do in
a situation such as this is to realign and stop Italy.
It's another busy day. I am now working full time and then some after many
months of light duty. [I wish we were free to be a little more personal in
our correspondence.]
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I confirm that the Dauphin will direct his forces to take
Belgium from Picardy. Enjoy your trip to Picardy.
The observes may also think me crazy for allowing an
English army in Picardy. But let them, it is the right
thing to do.
If you think a French army in Marseilles is better than a
Fleet, we can look at that. But let's see what the fall
brings before worrying too much about it.
I agree that it is too bad that we must maintain our
masks, but it is probably too late to change the game.
It is probably not worth the hassle to try and do so.
You may have noticed, but did not comment that the
Dauphin has allowed me to correspond with you again. He
has done so for three reasons. 1) We seem to be working
together, or at least negotiating again. 2) With all the
trouble in the world, it seemed silly to be so
hard-nosed. 3) He also felt it best to go into a more
secured area and that would make it more difficult for
him to communicate.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
While you are poinering your future, I will tell you my
default orders. I will attack Belgium from Picardy.
Burgundy will either support Picardy to Belgium or go for
Munich. This gives me flexibility to accept your help
for Belgium in you decide to help me, but at the same
time keeps you honest.
It also allows me to get in orders without waiting for
you to make a decision. I think that it also gives you
flexibility to help me take Belgium (perhaps), giving me
a fleet to use against Italy, if you choose to do that at
the last minute.
Since England may support Belgium from the Channel, it
may mean that neither of us would take it. Although I
could break this support, I am not inclined to do so. I
do not want you to take the opportunity to take Belgium
instead. I cannot afford a super large Germany on my
border to go along with a super large Italy on my border.
If you wish to dicuss things further, I should be
available.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Prince Boar & the Dauphin,
>You may have noticed, but did not comment that the
>Dauphin has allowed me to correspond with you again. He
>has done so for three reasons. ...
Oh, I did notice and I wanted to comment, but certain responsibilities
prevented me from doing so. My immediate, and perhaps best, reaction was
to express my preference for continuing to write to the Dauphin. My
reasoning was that I have already upset the Prince once, and I hate to
think of his reaction if ever I did so a second time. This game may have a
long time to go, and you never know what might happen.
If I angered him twice, he might never want to deal with me again --
ever. What if he and I ended up in a non-anonymous game some day? Hence,
I should write to the Dauphin. [Of course, my second, more reasoned,
reaction was that it won't really matter who (whom?) I write to.
I am very amused to realize that I have never deceived/stabbed (I still
draw a distinction) any person twice in the same game. Why? Because once
always sufficed. 8-) 8-) 8-). That just goes to show what a difficult
game "titleist" is! Imagine my frustration at striking someone and not
even drawing blood. There are supermen in this game, and I despair.
Ivy
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
I have done my best -- my very, very best -- to organize resistance to the
Italian threat. Now we have to see if it suffices. I hope a pleasant
surprise awaits you.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
This has been a very difficult negotiating season for me. I am referring
solely to the game situation, not to the tragic external events.
I don't know if my moves will please you or not, but I am motivated by and
frustrated by being isolated from Italy, when I think that Italy should be
the primary concern of all other players. I have been trying to alert
others to the dangerous situation Italy has us in. He is already very
close to being able to take out Turkey and grab a stalemate line with 13 or
14 centers. If that happens, we might stop him from winning the game, but
I doubt we could stop him from winning the tournament.
Anyway, my moves are entered. I am not attacking Holland. I am not
attacking Sweden. More I do not wish to say.
No matter what happens, I stand ready to ally with anyone who can muster
the resources to stop Italy. We may need a multi-player coalition. That
will be difficult, given the recent history involving France, England,
Germany, and Russia.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
I'd say something about the events in the outside world, but maybe it's
better just to stick to the game.
I like your idea of TYR-TRI. Will you support LVN-WAR from GAL?
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I also see the Italian threat. Which is why I went to TYR last turn.
And in fact practically my whole moves hinged on that. If I moved MUN
south, then I couldn't take BUR, if I couldn't take BUR it's another
turn where EG spin their wheels. Therefore why not attack England?
Sounds like twisted logic, but you know how your moves sometimes flow
from the decision of the first piece.
My intention is to keep STP and build an army to send south. That
decision would be easier if I could work with Turkey, but I haven't
heard anything from him yet. Have you?
I've got another day to decide on my moves. Truthfully I don't know
what they'll be yet. Obviously the only place that I could hurt you is
by supporting France to BEL. I still haven't figured out what that'll
get me. As I'm still of the opinion that France is a caged tiger. Let
him out and we're toast. I'd say that if his real intention is to send
a fleet or two against Italy then he should have moved this fleet in POR
to SPA last turn.
I'll write again tomorrow.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Prince:
But wouldn't a super large Germany cancel out the super large Italy?
In fact wouldn't a larger Germany be much better right about now? I
mean because you and Ivy are on my backside, whereas Roberto only has
Ali.
I haven't heard a word from Turkey, have you?
I'm still interested in support you into Belgium, but it'll have to go
from BUR. You can see my reasoning there. I'd also like to hold you
to your promise to build a fleet in MAR with that build.
Do we have a deal with these conditions?
Fredd
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
When I came up for air today I had a little time to review e-mail for the
past several days. I want to respond to something that you said a couple
of days ago.
> If you are ready to make a long term commitment to work with France,
> let me know.
I am ready. I think you have seen enough of my style to know that I don't
hop willy-nilly from one ally to another. I tend to remain loyal until and
unless it appears hopeless to continue. I would have continued with
Germany even longer (to my regret, I suppose) had there not been strong
indicators that he was going to turn on me and had not Italy been such a
threat.
We both agree, surely, that my army in Picardy will be misplaced. I assume
that an immediate goal will be to use my fleets to advance your army in
Belgium to Holland while I get back to Belgium myself. This will restore
my lost unit. We will still have some untangling to do, and some balancing
of forces to accomplish. I hope this latter can be done without too much
difficulty at the expense of Germany.
Speaking of Germany. He seems so much easier to talk to now that we have
no great expectations of each other. He tells me that he may support you
into Belgium! This from someone who would rarely reveal moves when we were
allies.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>My reasoning was that I have already upset the Prince
>once, and I hate to think of his reaction if ever I did
>so a second time.
Then simply never do so! That is easy!
>[Of course, my second, more reasoned, reaction was that
>it won't really matter who (whom?) I write to.
Ah, rationality, now stop that immediately!
>I am very amused to realize that I have never
>deceived/stabbed any person twice in the same game.
Ah , excellent, I take this as your promise never to stab
France again! ;-) Thank you.
>There are supermen in this game, and I despair.
Well, I am certainly not one of them! I do not judge
you a failure either. I simply think you initially
chose an unreliable and unreasonable ally. That was
always my position. Keep that in mind as we go forward
;-)
Speaking of Germany, he is insisting that he will only
support Burgundy to Belgium and not Picardy. What kind
of evil could he do if he managed to get me to agree with
this? I am trying to figure out what he is really up
to. What is he telling you?
Do not worry, the Dauphin settled on the plan with you
and will not change it, without your negotiating that
change. In fact, our troops are ordered without wait
orders. I merely am trying to figure out what we want
Germany to do. I guess we want to avoid Ruh -> Bel s by
Hol and Den -> Nth. Any thoughts on how to do with would
be appreciated.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>But wouldn't a super large Germany cancel out the super
>large Italy?
Math may not be my strong point, but I know that 9 + 8 do
not equal zero! They equal, ummm, just a second, let me
slip my shoes off here, OK, 17!
:-)
>I haven't heard a word from Turkey, have you?
No, I supsect we will not until the orders process.
>I'm still interested in support you into Belgium,...
>Do we have a deal with these conditions?
Is this a bonafide promise to do so if I agree or is it
merely your still considering your options. Although I
am likely to be talked into it, I really do not want to
waste my time discussing it until you are actually
offering to carry through with it.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
When I came up for air today I had a little time to review e-mail for the
past several days. I want to respond to something that you said a couple
of days ago.
> If you are ready to make a long term commitment to work with France,
> let me know.
I am ready. I think you have seen enough of my style to know that I don't
hop willy-nilly from one ally to another. I tend to remain loyal until and
unless it appears hopeless to continue. I would have continued with
Germany even longer (to my regret, I suppose) had there not been strong
indicators that he was going to turn on me and had not Italy been such a
threat.
We both agree, surely, that my army in Picardy will be misplaced. I assume
that an immediate goal will be to use my fleets to advance your army in
Belgium to Holland while I get back to Belgium myself. This will restore
my lost unit. We will still have some untangling to do, and some balancing
of forces to accomplish. I hope this latter can be done without too much
difficulty at the expense of Germany.
Speaking of Germany. He seems so much easier to talk to now that we have
no great expectations of each other. He tells me that he may support you
into Belgium! This from someone who would rarely reveal moves when we were
allies.
Ivy
Message from Germany to France
> >I'm still interested in support you into Belgium,...
> >Do we have a deal with these conditions?
> Is this a bonafide promise to do so if I agree or is it
> merely your still considering your options. Although I
> am likely to be talked into it, I really do not want to
> waste my time discussing it until you are actually
> offering to carry through with it.
I don't think that I can get more precise than what I said originally
above. It's a bonafide deal in my view.
I'm seeing the deadline change around. Perhaps we won't have orders
process anytime soon.
Fredd
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>Prince Boar,
Thank you!
>I am ready.
Wonderful! So is France!
>I think you have seen enough of my style to know that
>I don't hop willy-nilly from one ally to another. I
>tend to remain loyal until
Yes. Although we were frustrated by our inability to
turn you against Germany, we admired the fact that you
made a decision and stuck with it (until it was proven
to be clearly not working).
>We both agree, surely, that my army in Picardy will be
>misplaced. I assume that an immediate goal will be to
>use my fleets to advance your army in
>Belgium to Holland while I get back to Belgium myself.
Yes, I agree that the army in Picardy is misplaced. But
I do not mind things being messy as long as they are the
best things to do. I too have thought of how to get your
army farther east. I thought of supporting it to Ruhr or
moving it to Belgium while my army moves to Holland.
This has the disadvantage in that things will remain a
bit messy with my army misplaced. But we can deal with
that. The other option is to convoy Picardy to Holland,
but that ties up several fleets that could do other
things.
>Speaking of Germany. He seems so much easier to
>talk to now that we have no great expectations of
>each other. He tells me that he may support you
>into Belgium! This from someone who would rarely
>reveal moves when we were allies.
He has always wavered between periods of reasonablenss
and communication to complete silence in the end when it
counted.
I worry a bit about Germany ordering either Ruh/Hol to
Bel with the support of the other or Ruh -> Bur, Hol ->
Bel. Both of these deny us our goal and would have made
our other choice better. What do you think that I should
tell Germany that will increase the likelihood of his not
making those orders? I want him to worry about Munich.
I want to make him realize that he had no chance at
Belgium himself. You have had better interaction with
him. Any advice is appreciated.
--Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
Okay, let's try Friday night (tonight!) for a deadline.
Doug
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
OK, sorry if I did not take "I am still thinking about
supporting you to Belgium" as a promise of your doing so.
The reason that I hestiate to order Bur to Bel is that
you could pull the old two-step, support Bur to Bel and
then slip Ruh into Bur. But thinking about it, I guess
that you would end up with an English army in Ruhr and
have just as many problems as I would have. Therefore I
am now less concerned.
You have to worry about two things. My betraying you and
going for Munich and the English army retreating to Ruhr.
You can cover both of these with the following orders:
Hol s Bur to Bel, Ruh -> Mun, Tyr -> Mun
I need the support from Holland because I need to split
my fleet forces. I have to worry about Italy, your
moving to Piedmont, and England slipping into the MAO. I
will try to cover all bases with limited resources.
So yes, if you order as above and I do indeed take
Belgium from Burgundy, I will cheerfully build a fleet in
Marseilles. Your presence in Tyrolia would be important
because my forces in the Med. will still be limited. I
would need something in the North to deal with England.
although, I know I must keep that force to a minimum, to
ease your fears.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I asked Germany to order Hol s Bur to Bel, Ruh -> Mun,
Tyr -> Mun. This should allow us to make our swap. I
also implied to him that I would not be attacking the
Channel, hoping he would then not bother to try to grab
Belgium himself, and bounce our exchange.
What are you telling Germany and what is he telling you
these days? Let's keep each other informed so we can
work efficiently together. I am telling Germany nothing
about our discussions. I hope that you do the same.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I hope that things are going well for you. I have not
talked to you since 9/11. I know that the game is realy
not too important and we have nothing to coordinate, but
I miss our discussions nonetheless. I wish you well and
reconfirm my committment to EFR against G. Let eliminate
the pain in our sides and then we can consider the
future. I hope that we each can make a strong recovery
and via for a strong finish. Someday soon we can more
actively work together whether it be against Germany,
England or Italy.
--Xavier
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
I hope that things are going well for you. I have not
talked to you since 9/11. I know that the game is realy
not too important and we have nothing to coordinate, but
I miss our discussions nonetheless. I wish you well and
hope to be in a position to help you soon.
I hope that you are taking England's advice and trying to
minimize the damage, i.e. making certain that you do not
lose Rumania or Bulgaria. Since help is on the way, it
is important for you to remain strong and not take undue
chances.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I hope that things are going well for you. I have not
talked to you since 9/11. I know that the game is realy
not too important and we have nothing to coordinate, but
I miss our discussions nonetheless.
Have you been having troubles with Germany? He is pretty
determined to get me to committ forces against you. I
know that someday we will need to have some 'peace
keeping' forces on our border, but I need to finish off
England or Germany first. Right now I am worried about
Germany trying a second major play. His army in Tyrolia
could do so many things from moving to Piedmont to going
for Trieste or Venice. It is too bad that you ever gave
up that spot :-)
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
> I've got another day to decide on my moves. Truthfully I don't know
>what they'll be yet. Obviously the only place that I could hurt you is
>by supporting France to BEL. I still haven't figured out what that'll
>get me. As I'm still of the opinion that France is a caged tiger. Let
>him out and we're toast. I'd say that if his real intention is to send
>a fleet or two against Italy then he should have moved this fleet in POR
>to SPA last turn.
That *&%7)*& USIN is at it again. Perhaps you will get 10 copies of
this. Rather than being upset at judge keepers, I admire them all the more
for what they have to put up with in order to keep this hobby alive.
I understand your dilemma. Long ago, I decided that this had to be a
wait-and-see turn for me. I do think there is a chance that France will
turn fleets against Italy, and I am willing to leave him alone this
turn. Who knows what he will really do?
If he is asking you to support him into Belgium, then perhaps he is feeding
me a line. Or, assuming that he really may be going against Italy, maybe
he just doesn't want you to take Belgium. Surely, he is bright enough to
see that Italy is the big problem now.
I am not confident any more that I have a great future in
"titleist." Probably everything I do and write in the next several moves
will be based on the assumption that Italy must be stopped, even if it
takes all of the rest of us to cooperate.
Anyway, for this turn, I prefer that you not support him into Belgium or
attack it yourself. That's what my message comes down to, I guess,
something so obvious that it hardly seems worth my time to say it.
Your once and future friend,
Ivy
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>Speaking of Germany, he is insisting that he will only
>support Burgundy to Belgium and not Picardy. What kind
>of evil could he do if he managed to get me to agree with
>this? I am trying to figure out what he is really up
>to. What is he telling you?
I didn't get this note until this morning at roughly the same time that I
got your other notes. I imagine that you sent the first one about 24 hours
ago, though. My own note, written yesterday morning, partially answers
your questions. Germany did tell me that he was considering supporting you
into Belgium.
>I guess we want to avoid Ruh -> Bel s by Hol and Den -> Nth. Any
>thoughts on how to do with would be appreciated.
> I guess we want to avoid Ruh -> Bel s by Hol and Den -> Nth.
As far as Den->Nth goes, I have been telling Germany that I will not be
bouncing anyone, Germany or Russia, in Sweden. Of course, I am supporting
Russia into Sweden. If Fredd believes me, then he will have to try to
bounce Russia himself in Sweden. His overriding concern has to be holding
on to his build this year. That will permit me to gain the North Sea.
As for Germany's action around Belgium, I am highly limited in what I can
say. I've said in so many words, "please don't attack Belgium or help
France attack Belgium." Anything else would sound highly strange
indeed. My message has been that I have a wait-and-see, sit-on-my-hands
approach this turn, because I want France to consider action against Italy.
Given Germany's one, and only one, message to me, I have to assume that he
is at least considering cooperation with you.
The move that I really would like to see would be Tyrolia->Venice, but I
can't imagine how we could get Germany to do that. Otherwise Italy's
Trieste->Venice will succeed and will be able to go to Piedmont next turn.
Ivy
Message from Italy to France
>
> Have you been having troubles with Germany? He is pretty
> determined to get me to committ forces against you. I
> know that someday we will need to have some 'peace
> keeping' forces on our border, but I need to finish off
> England or Germany first. Right now I am worried about
> Germany trying a second major play. His army in Tyrolia
> could do so many things from moving to Piedmont to going
> for Trieste or Venice.
>
I am willing to commit to whatever units are needed against Germany that you
want. Germany and I have not seen eye-to-eye on many things this game. Let
me know what you need if you decide to go against Germany. I would support
you 100%.
> It is too bad that you ever gave up that spot :-)
>
I have resigned myself to the fact that I made a poor move this last spring.
I should have moved Venice to Tyrolia.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
I'll admit I haven't been spending a lot of time thinking about the game. I
have no doubt that as time goes on, my enthusiasm will regrow. The importance
of many aspects of day-to-day life are different now, but life goes on.
Diplomacy has been, and will remain, a part of my life, and the game is still
important to me. But most of the needed diplomacy in this game, at least from
my perspective, had been completed before the 11th anyway.
My orders are Bul/Gal S Sev-Rum, Con/Bla S Bul, Smy-Aeg, Ank-Smy. This is
what I had in before; it's not airtight, but I figure Italy will have to
respond in some way to German A Tyr, so he may not throw against me the
resources it would take to get him Rum.
Germany continues to request support to Warsaw. I have not replied to his
request. I told him before I wouldn't support him against Russia.
Anyway, if you feel my moves are overly risky, please let me know with a
proposed alternative.
Regards,
Ali
> Message from France to Turkey in 'titleist':
>
> Ali:
>
> I hope that things are going well for you. I have not
> talked to you since 9/11. I know that the game is realy
> not too important and we have nothing to coordinate, but
> I miss our discussions nonetheless. I wish you well and
> hope to be in a position to help you soon.
>
> I hope that you are taking England's advice and trying to
> minimize the damage, i.e. making certain that you do not
> lose Rumania or Bulgaria. Since help is on the way, it
> is important for you to remain strong and not take undue
> chances.
>
> --Prince Boar
>
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Thanks for your press, and for your efforts. I did hear from France, who
promises that help is on the way. I certainly hope for continued momentum in
favor of EF cooperation.
Germany continues to request support against Warsaw, but I've already told him
I can't support him against Russia. I wrote to Russia to confirm that I'm not
bothering him, but he has not replied. In short, it's been pretty quiet down
here since the break on the 11th.
Best of luck to you in the results. Here's hoping.
Ali
> Ali,
>
> I have done my best -- my very, very best -- to organize resistance to the
> Italian threat. Now we have to see if it suffices. I hope a pleasant
> surprise awaits you.
>
> Most cordially,
> Ivy
>
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>I hope that things are going well for you. I have not
>talked to you since 9/11.
My family and I are fine. We were 100 miles from the
Pentagon, and not that close to NYC or western PA, so
it was frightening, but not dangerous for us.
>I miss our discussions nonetheless. I wish you well and
>reconfirm my commitment to EFR against G. Let eliminate
>the pain in our sides and then we can consider the
>future. I hope that we each can make a strong recovery
>and via for a strong finish. Someday soon we can more
>actively work together whether it be against Germany,
>England or Italy.
Yes, I felt we had reached our decisions by the 10th,
so I haven't written to anyone in any detail since then.
I'm sure once the turn finally processes things will
pick up again, though.
Nick.
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
After much thought and sole searching, I will support you into BEL from
BUR. The primary reason is that if we don't do something about Italy
now, it'll be too late. The secondary reason is that England has moved
himself out of position to have much effect on this game.
I hope you will follow through on your promise to build a fleet in
MAR. I would also like a future consideration, to be named later. Here
I'm just thinking that if I support you into one center, than a fair
return would be for you to support me into a center later. (Perhaps in
England, or Italy)
I have been looking at the MUN bounce. I thought of that also, but I
think I'll keep quiet as to whether I'll take that route or not. There
are other options, such as using TYR against Italy, or moving RUH to
MUN. (which does leave England a retreat into RUH, but if he does that
he'll have to disband a fleet.)
You'll have time to make any move changes that you wish. I don't have
my orders in yet. As Turkey and I have more details to work out in
regard to the east. I'll wait until at least I hear back from you.
Regards,
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
I understand your feelings about pretty much holding this turn. I still
don't know what to do (at least in the east) as Turkey is still silent.
I have the same concerns that you do over BEL, although my thoughts are
a little further east. I hope that you're not helping Russia attack me
in SWE or STP. It doesn't sound like you will. Russia needs to be
eliminated. He's no help against Italy. Plus I need a build to send
another army south before it's too late.
I currently am not attacking BEL or helping France attack BEL.
The moves will not be processing tonight. I don't have orders in. I
wonder if Turkey is even still with us.
Does this game seem unimportant to you?
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
That was pretty good. I wrote that whole note, and forgot to mention
the thing that I started out looking at.
Are you going to bounce the North Sea? I figure that I pretty much
have to go to SWE to counter Russia. Therefore I can't bounce with you
in NTH.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
Are you still with us?
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
As I have promised 5 times, if you help me take Belgium, I will indeed
build a fleet in Marseilles. :-) My only admendment is that I do not
find a German army in Piedmont. :-) Thank you for your support.
I understand that you may not bounce yourself in Munich. You may
instead hold in Ruhr and use Tyrolia against Italy. But you do not want
to tell me this in case I may consider going for Munich. There still is
that chance that I could try it anway(although it is not highly likely
if Belgium is available), so I do recommend the bounce. :-)
And yes, there is no need to throw in extra stipulations of my agreeing
to support you to a center later. I think that the implicited agreement
would be that we would work to together to split the English centers.
Hopefully you are now able to turn your orders in and we can finally get
this game going, before the judge goes down again! :-)
--Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
I'm already to turn in my support order for you. But I'm going to wait
a bit longer to see if I can't get a deal with Turkey. There are two
late players. I'm one. I'm assuming that other is Ali.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
> Prince Boar:
> I'm already to turn in my support order for you. But I'm going to wait
> a bit longer to see if I can't get a deal with Turkey. There are two
> late players. I'm one. I'm assuming that other is Ali.
I should clarify that. I haven't totally decided on my orders for my
eastern units. The support of BUR to BEL by HOL is entered.
My dealings with Turkey don't effect my dealings with you.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
I got your two messages late Saturday evening frum our beloved USIN.
Goodness knows when you actually wrote them. I am writing Sunday at 11:30
am. Goodness knows when your will receive this!
> ... as Turkey is still silent.
I had one brief message from Turkey after Septmber 11. He said nothing of
consequence. I think his moves are in.
> I have the same concerns that you do over BEL, although my thoughts are
>a little further east. I hope that you're not helping Russia attack me
>in SWE or STP.
>Are you going to bounce the North Sea? I figure that I pretty much
>have to go to SWE to counter Russia. Therefore I can't bounce with you
>in NTH.
My moves are still as I suggested so long ago. Eng s Bel; Nwg & Nwy->Nth.
>Does this game seem unimportant to you?
Yes, but for more than the one obvious big reason. My load at work has
increased enormously recently. Also the USIN disruptions have detracted
from the continuity of titleist. Finally, I think I have always had a
healthy sense of perspective. Diplomacy has always seemed unimportant to
me. In spite of that, I do play hard, and I see no reason to just "mail in
the moves." I'll continue to give this my best.
>Plus I need a build to send
>another army south before it's too late.
> I currently am not attacking BEL or helping France attack BEL.
I find it interesting that neither of us has of late urged the other to
make anti-French moves. I once recommended Hol-Ruh, and Ruh-Mun to you.
Those would still be good moves. I also once wanted Tyrolia-Piedmont, but
now I would rather see Tyrolia->Venice. Somewhere along the way, I began
to realize that Italy is much too big a threat and that we may need France
to help us. I don't want all those observers to see us squabble while one
country runs away with the game. Aren't we supposed to be better than
that? No one should have an easy victory.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Good point about neither of us suggesting anti-France moves. I'd say
the reason is that we don't have much hope of getting anything done in
that direction. When I decided to send MUN south instead of using it to
support a move to BUR my anti-French options dried up. You don't have
many options either, as you have retreated your fleet in NAO to NWG.
More importantly we've already tried that route. It didn't get very
far. Perhaps we can try it again in the future. With Italy supporting
France we didn't have much chance. If we can turn France toward Italy
(basically by leaving him alone) perhaps a stab will work better in the
future.
Interesting in that we share the same opinion of this game. It never
was that important to me. And in fact was taking up more of my time
than I'd like it to. Hence my slow response at times. I have been
giving it the old college try though.
Fredd
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I may take you up on your offer to work against Germany.
I really do not want to give away too much before the
moves come in.
I would recommend that you make sure that he does not
take one of your centers (i.e, try Tri -> Ven, Bud, Vie
to Tri, or something along those lines).
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Although I am nervous about your risking Italy getting
two builds, I can see the advantage of being in Galicia.
I will do what I can to make Italy see the threat of
Germany and thereby increase your odds.
Hang in there! I am trying to help and I will need you
viable for me to be successful in doing that.
--Prince Boar
Message [from France] to all
What is the story with the game? Is someone missing or is someone
expecting a deadline extension? If not, what are we waiting for?
Message from Germany to Master
Doug:
You might not be able to answer this. Is someone missing?
Obviously I'm one of the late ones. I'm obviously here.
I'm holding my moves because I believe that we ARE missing someone. If,
in fact, everyone has signaled to you that they're ready to start
playing again, I'll submit orders. Whether or not certain people
contact me.
Germany
> Broadcast message in 'titleist':
>
> What is the story with the game? Is someone missing or is someone
> expecting a deadline extension? If not, what are we waiting for?
Message from Master to Germany
usin@thekleimans.com said:
> You might not be able to answer this. Is someone missing? Obviously
>I'm one of the late ones. I'm obviously here.
Although you obviously haven't submitted orders and you obviously
are continuing to send press. Why you might think that this is
appropriate behavior is beyond me. Please don't try to manage deadlines
by withholding orders.
Submit your orders ASAP, please.
> I'm holding my moves because I believe that we ARE missing someone.
>If, in fact, everyone has signaled to you that they're ready to start
>playing again, I'll submit orders. Whether or not certain people
>contact me.
Everyone has indicated that they are ready to continue. Two players,
including yourself, have failed to submit orders.
Doug
Message from Master to Italy
Any problems here, Ken? We're waiting for your orders . . .
Doug
Message from France to France
My orders are:
mao -> wes
por -> spa (sc)
bre -> mao
pic -> bel s by Bur
I told England that I would flip a coin about bre -> mao
versus hold. But I never flipped that coin. I just made
the move. I merely wanted to keep some doubt so he would
not try eng -> bre.
Assuming that Germany's offer to support me to Belgium is
even legitimate, I have basically two options.
1) take Belgium, try to work with Germany, and use my
knowledge of England's moves to take advantage of him.
The goal would be to put him out. I could order
bre -> pic, bel -> pic s by bur
or bur -> bel s by pic, bre -> eng
mao -> iri, por -> mao
2) work with England to put out Germany and get a start
on doing something about Italy.
I choose two for a few reasons:
1) I am worried that Italy will get too big
2) I do not think that Germany is reliable enough to work
with long term. It would also be frustrating.
Looking at the situation objectively, not know the
personalities, one would think that it would be safer to
take this chance at eliminating England and not have that
risk of him at my exposed back. If Germany was more
reasonable to deal with I might have considered that
option. I would hope that Italy could be managed enough
to whittle him down later with Germany's help. I could
try to stab Germany and grow as large as Italy and
consider a two-way draw with solo possibilities. But
this is not a highly likely scenario.
The long run may have better solo options by cutting
Italy down now and hoping to work with Russia against
England later.
I will try to sell my fleet moves as completely defensive
(to all the world but England). mao -> wes defends
agaisnt tys -> wes, por -> spa(sc) defends against tyr ->
pie, bre-> mao defends against iri -> mao
France
Message from England to all
My moves have been in for a long, long time.
Ivy
Message from Russia to all
> Broadcast message from England in 'titleist':
>
> My moves have been in for a long, long time.
Mine have been in since, (checking records...) the night of 9/9.
Nick.
Message from Observer to Observer
Doug,
Do you know what the hold up is?
dan.
Message from France to England and Russia
Nick, Ivy:
I too have had my orders in for a long time.
I am almost certain that it is Germany who is holding things up. He is
likely holding the game up until he can talk Turkey into supporting his
attack on Russia. At least that was initially the reason the first day
or so. Someone may be late for some other reason. But I find
negotiating after the deadline and willfully holding the deadline to be
abhorrent tactics.
I am just blowing off a little frustration. I do not know what we can
do about it, just continue to be patient. I suppose in the coming
seasons we can do something about it.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France and Russia
>I am almost certain that it is Germany who is holding things up.
Until a day or so ago two persons were late. Germany was one of them. I
had a message from him shortly after the deadline in which he indicated
some loss of motivation for "titleist," but he said he would make a good
effort. After that message, I expected him to submit moves rather quickly,
but that didn't happen. Now, however, only one person is late.
Italy is the only player I haven't heard from in ages.
Ivy
He is
>likely holding the game up until he can talk Turkey into supporting his
>attack on Russia. At least that was initially the reason the first day
>or so. Someone may be late for some other reason. But I find
>negotiating after the deadline and willfully holding the deadline to be
>abhorrent tactics.
>
>I am just blowing off a little frustration. I do not know what we can
>do about it, just continue to be patient. I suppose in the coming
>seasons we can do something about it.
>
>--Prince Boar
Message from France to England and Russia
Ivy,Nick:
>Italy is the only player I haven't heard from in ages.
I have heard from a couple times since the game was
halted. I did not get the impression that he was waiting
for anything? I only knew that Germany was waiting while
he tried to work on Turkey. But that a day or so after
the deadline. It has been a long time since then. One
would think that he would have accepted and moved on. I
guess that I should not "jump to the Island of
Conclusions" :-)
I wish that the game would reveal late players. I have
never liked that flag. Oh well, I guess that there is
nothing to talk about other than Football.
What about those Packers? Two and Oh! :-) After they
beat the Panthers that means that by default they know
they can beat the Vikings!
Hopefully the Steelers can beat up on the lowly Bills!
--Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
I've spoken with the late player. He's had some hectic issues to deal
with and has had to knock the priority of Diplomacy down a bit recently.
But he didn't ask for an extended break and said he would submit orders
by the end of the weekend.
The game is listed "Quiet", so I won't say who it was, nor will I confirm
or deny anything.
Doug
England: Army Belgium → English Channel → Picardy
England: Fleet English Channel CONVOY Army Belgium → Picardy
England: Fleet Irish Sea → North Atlantic Ocean
England: Fleet Norway SUPPORT Russian Fleet Finland → Sweden
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea → North Sea
France: Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Western Mediterranean
France: Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Fleet Portugal → Spain (south coast)
Germany: Fleet Denmark → Sweden (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Holland SUPPORT French Army Burgundy → Belgium (*void*)
Germany: Army Livonia → Warsaw (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr → Munich
Germany: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) HOLD
Germany: Army Tyrolia → Trieste (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Aegean Sea → Bulgaria (south coast) (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Budapest → Galicia (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea → Bulgaria (south coast)
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Apulia
Italy: Army Serbia → Rumania (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Trieste → Tyrolia (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea HOLD
Italy: Army Vienna → Galicia (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Finland → Sweden
Russia: Army Ukraine → Moscow
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Army Ukraine → Moscow (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Ankara → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna → Aegean Sea (*bounce*)
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