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Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> That is now two you owe me for. :-)
Heheh, duly noted.
> Can you find me a supply center somewhere? I have to get
> units dislodge to artificially get builds. :-)
Be that as it may, you used that tactic to good advantage. Certainly, your
position has been much improved this turn.
> At least I can guarantee denying England a build, if I am
> completely conservative. If I get a little bolder Italy
> could betray me and help England get a build. Let me
> know what your hear.
I would be truly shocked if Italy cooperated with England this turn. As for
Roberto's long-term intentions, I think much will be revealed by what he
chooses to do with Tyr.
> But it looks like Germany will get one more (StP) Are
> you going to allow Russia to take Sev?
That is my desire. However, since I did not move to Rum, I am now dependant
on Italy's support for Bud, and indeed Italy has not yet really agreed to
Turkish ownership of Bud. But if Austria's centers can be split evenly
between I/T/R, that would be my preference.
> Do you find working with Roberto to be frustrating? I
> sure wish that you and I were neighbors.
He can be. He's easy to get along with, as long as you go along with what he
wants, and to date it's been in my best interests to do so. But he can also
be difficult (impossible?) to budge if you don't see eye to eye.
And I can definitely tell you that had I drawn England, this would have been a
*very* different game! ;^)
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> But Ali, how does E/G/I/T become E/I/T, especially when G is at 7 or 8 or 9
> centers? Answer: EI&T have to team up and take out Germany. And that
> leaves both Italian and Turkish units on "my" side of the classic east/west
> stalemate line.
>
> So my dilemma and your dilemma are the same. How do I get you back on your
> side of the stalemate line in the northeast while you gobble up Italy?
> Also, how do I help you gobble up Italy without crossing over to your side
> of the stalemate line in the Mediterrean?
Here is how I might approach this as England. I work overtime to make an
arrangement with Italy, with the first move being an Italian army entering
Marseilles. Italy then supports my fleet to Spa/nc. F (nc) does nothing to
threaten Italy, and since his support would have to specify the coast, it's
very safe for him. Then MAO S Spa-Por, leaving Spain for Italy (to be taken
with an army of course).
Meanwhile, I begin to harrass Germany, perhaps by attacking Holland or
Denmark. I encourage Turkey to keep Russia alive, so that I can make use of
his fleet. Russia and England have never been hostile, and neither threatens
the other; and Russia will be only too glad for an ally against the German.
Even if Russia is ultimately taken out by the Turk, having his fleet around
for a year or two is still helpful. And if Russia disbands the fleet and
rebuilds as an army, then that's all the more pressure Germany will have at
his back.
I don't expect much gain from Germany at first, but I can cause him lots of
grief with relative impunity. And whatever happens with Turkey and Russia,
*someone* will be there hitting him from the other side. After all, I've been
carefully nurturing my relationship with Turkey since the start of the game.
;^)
As France goes down to EI pressure, the gains from it give me new units that
first make a feint against the German homeland, then move to secure
Scandinavia. Once I've got fleets in Nth, Hel, Ska, then Scandinavia goes by
the numbers, especially if I can keep Germany from building a third fleet and
keep his armies off-balance. Meanwhile, I augment R/T pressure by guiding
Italy to Munich. Italy has already shown a lot of interest in the region, and
it would take little to convince him that Munich fits in with his plans to
control the center. I might support an Italian army through Burgundy, if I
can first secure Paris for myself.
While all this is taking place, I work on the angle that Turkey eventually has
to build fleets. This works to get Italian fleets pulled back from Gibraltar,
and gives Turkey further incentive to attack German centers to fuel the
shipyards for a surprise build. Once the IT conflict begins, it's pretty much
gravy. Having secured Scandinavia, I now take Germany proper, and either pump
armies into Russia or grab the rest of France and strike the Med. Probably
depends on whether Turkey or Italy is getting ahead in the south. The obvious
goal is to gain the 17 northern centers plus either Tunis, Warsaw or Moscow.
An alternative to this course would be to really shake things up and make a
peace with France. I start the same way, by coaxing an Italian army into
Marseilles. France will then do whatever is in France's best interest, and if
I simply sail away he's sure to let bygones be bygones (if he's a good player,
which I suspect he is) and attack Italy. That gives me lots of firepower
against Germany, and Scandinavia will be a cakewalk while France gets as
bogged down against Italy as he is against England now.
I take the same approach with building R/T pressure against Germany, except
under this scenario everything goes much faster in the east. Ultimately
Turkey runs out of room and attacks Italy. Just when France thinks he'll at
last get a piece of Italy, I strike him from behind with a crushing blow, and
this time there's nobody left to come to his rescue. Making peace with France
would take some diplomatic effort, and nobody likes to reverse a course after
devoting a lot of resources to it. But flexibility is the name of the game,
and if a course of action proves fruitless, the prudent man chooses another
path.
Obviously, these are both rosy scenarios. But I would certainly count both as
well within the realm of possibility.
> I want these problems! I would give anything to have these problems! Just
> get us there and we will work on them together! 8-)
I'm tryin, mate, I'm tryin. =)
> More seriously, how do we get Italy to work against Germany, when Italy can
> see from a mile away that he is likely to be caught between us afterwards?
See above. My hunch is that Italy sees control of the center as his ticket to
a solo. Work on that, and get him thinking thoughts of Munich. Make sure you
don't threaten him with your fleets, so that he feels he can handle any
Turkish surprise.
Meanwhile, I do my best to convince him there will be no Turkish surprise. If
he's peaceful with England and Turkey, he's less likely to attack either for
fear the other will strike from behind, and he'll be eager to bolster his
position in a way that helps protect him from both. Controlling the center
does that, as well as improving his chances of a successful game-winning stab
at the end.
See, under such a scenario as I describe above, my big unresolved problem is,
what happens when I attack Italy? Eventually I'll run out of room building
only armies, in which case conflict with Italy becomes inevitable. No matter
how I roll this around in my head, it comes out to your advantage.
> If we get there, and our problems are not resolvable, we always have the
> 14-14-6 option. The two 14s would be declared co-champs under Doug's
> rules. The spectators deserve something bloodier than this, but at lease
> we need to keep all options open.
Well, "keep your options open" is my motto. I fully expect to see some
serious efforts to take a solo in this game. So far I've been setting myself
up for a draw position, and I've been giving a lot of thought as to how to
break out of that. It all comes down to attacking Italy, and the timing is
everything.
I can't do it now, because I haven't secured my land position well enough yet.
If I do it too soon, I can't give a proper effort in Russia, and Germany
becomes dominant. If I do it too late, then you end up dominating the north
and IT both get consolation prizes, even in the event of a draw. "Just right"
would probably be if I can somehow gain War and Mos in the same turn, with Con
& Smy open for builds, but Italy's sure to see that coming a mile away and
could launch a pre-emptive strike.
Everyone has their own motivations. Sure, I'd love to come out of this game
with a solo, or with the title as part of a draw, or even a *share* of the
title as part of a draw. But the bottom line is, I want to survive the game,
and in the end I'll fight hard for even the bottom slot in a 3-way. Wouldn't
hurt my JDPR any. So far, my only focus has been to survive and be viable
going into the mid-game. I could still get a nasty surprise from Italy this
turn, but barring that, this early goal seems to have been accomplished. So
now it's time to start looking more to the horizon, so to speak.
I hope you don't mind my long-winded ramble. I enjoy the discussion, and I
find that the process of saying it all out loud can sometimes be quite
instructive.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Germany to Turkey
Don't you just hate it. Italy puts a major stab on Austria, and instead
of fighting back Austria turns entirely toward you. This is how games
are won, and I hate it. If it were me, I'd attack you one turn, then
turn around and attack Italy the following turn. (But it's not me)
Well at least we should be down to 6 after the next turn. After that
everything is up for grabs. You and Italy will be right up against each
other, and there is some bad blood between you. Russia will be down to
two. Who knows what's going to happen in the west. England's move to
the NTH has returned to bite him in the ass. (I told him that if he
moved there I'd have to cover my ass - that's what I did.) Worse is
that he's still there. With the possibility to support an attack on
HOL. It's really stifling our attack on France.
What a mess. I love it.
Fredd
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
Well, that could have gone better, but it could have been worse. I've written
to Italy requesting support for Ser-Bud. If he agrees, then I'd say Bla S
Sev-Rum, Ukr-Sev, War Hold, StP Hold are your best bet. That way you're
guaranteed to end the year at 3, since Germany will be unable to take more
than one center in the north.
My guess is StP, in which case you could either disband and rebuild A Mos, or
keep the fleet around to hassle Germany. I've written to England to suggest
he turn anti-German now and make arrangements with you to combine E/R efforts.
But he's away for a while, so who knows if we'll have time to put such a thing
together. Anyway, if England bites, then the fleet could be very useful. Or,
an army would put lots of heat on Germany; either way has benefits.
I haven't heard back from Roberto yet, but it's clear that he is in position
to simply take Bud for himself. I've argued to him that it is better for
stability if Austrian centers are split evenly between I/T/R. Let's hope he
buys it. If he grabs Bud for himself, then I could end up hostile with Italy
all over again.
Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? I look forward to your reply.
Ali
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
>that could have gone better, but it could have been worse.
Yes, it's ironic that Austria actually helped me by
bouncing War-Mos.
>I've written to Italy requesting support for Ser-Bud.
If he doesn't do it, it means he plans to attack
you. I suspect that he will order the support, though.
I'll write to him and endorse the idea, as well.
>I'd say Bla S Sev-Rum, Ukr-Sev, War Hold, StP Hold
That's what I was thinking, or perhaps War-Lvn,
Stp-Lvn.
>Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
I think you've covered everything. I'll try to
get a letter out to Roberto today, and will let you
know what he says.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
> That's what I was thinking, or perhaps War-Lvn,
> Stp-Lvn.
That sounds risky, since GOB S Lvn-StP, Sil-War would give Germany Warsaw.
Ali
Message from Master to all
Extension due to player absence, for one additional day.
Doug
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Are you planning a bounce in Smyrna? That would allow you to build a
fleet there? If Italy gets a build, he is surely to make it a fleet.
Can you allow yourself to be down 1 fleet to his 4 fleets?
I was looking to try and find a way for you to only move from Sevastopol
only if you take Budapest. But I think that there is no way to
accomplish it.
You may wish to remind Italy that he does not want to be the largest
fish in the fishbowl. It would make his neighbors jealous. :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Well, the deadline is tomorrow. What are your thoughts? Let's get a plan
together.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> Well, the deadline is tomorrow. What are your thoughts?
> Let's get a plan together.
>
I came to work today planning on hammering out a plan but found the judge
unresponsive. At home now without time to adequately write what I need to.
I've asked Doug for a Wednesday deadline so we hopefully won't be pressured
tomorrow but I'll get something out to you first thing tomorrow morning.
Roberto
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Here is how I might approach this as England.
We got home yesterday evening. I put your analysis under my pillow and
slept on it. It was frustrating not to be able to communicate effectively
today, but I think that USIN is back in order.
Now you see what I meant when I said that I was having difficulty with
Germany. His moves were expected, although I held out hope for something
better. Clearly, he is giving himself some options, not all of which are
favorable to me.
In the meantime, you have a wonderful position. The only way to mess it up
would be to get a couple of units ahead of everyone else and provoke a
"stop Turkey" alliance.
>I hope you don't mind my long-winded ramble. I enjoy the discussion, and I
>find that the process of saying it all out loud can sometimes be quite
>instructive.
No, I don't mind it. I know you are feeling pretty good right now. And I
did find it helpful.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> In the meantime, you have a wonderful position. The only way to mess it
up
> would be to get a couple of units ahead of everyone else and provoke a
> "stop Turkey" alliance.
Not much fear of that. Italy has not yet replied yea or nay to my request
for Bud. If he does give it, then I fully intend to vacate Sev. If not,
then I still might, depending on your viewpoint.
> No, I don't mind it. I know you are feeling pretty good right now. And I
> did find it helpful.
I really didn't mean to come off that way. I began my reply several times,
trying to write an analysis from an "objective" point of view. After
rewriting it 3 or 4 times, I found that I could not help but work some
Turkish angle into it somehow. Hey, old habits die hard. Anyway, in the
end I tried approaching it from just an English perspective, and I found my
train of thought came much more naturally.
The reason my decision on Sev depends on your input is this. Italy may or
may not agree to support me to Bud. If he does not, then I suspect that IT
conflict may come sooner rather than later. If that happens to coincide
with the introduction of EG conflict, then I think we would both clearly be
better off if we can use Russia to our advantage. Or, Italy may promise the
support, but then take Bud for himself, and I must be prepared for that
eventuality.
But mostly, I need to decide what to do if Italy simply refuses, urging me
instead to just hold onto Sev. In that case, it might still be wisest to
vacate Sev to Russia, even if it means not having a build. It all depends
on questions I can't answer: namely, what would happen in France then, and
what will happen between E/G. So, any advice you could give regarding these
considerations would be most greatly appreciated.
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
I have a question for you. I'm a little too close to the action.
I think that I can't see the forest through the trees.
If you were me, who would you ally with, France or England? I'm
only thinking in a strategic sense. Discount personalities.
Fredd
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
How are things going over there? I have not heard from
you lately.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
Extension to Wednesday evening, due to judge outage.
Doug
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Not much fear of that. Italy has not yet replied yea or nay to my request
>for Bud.
Has he replied at all?? I need to hear from Italy most of all right now,
and I have not heard a word from him. Is he talking to you?
>If he does give it, then I fully intend to vacate Sev. If not,
>then I still might, depending on your viewpoint.
I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
on his intentions in the west.
>The reason my decision on Sev depends on your input is this. Italy may or
>may not agree to support me to Bud. If he does not, then I suspect that IT
>conflict may come sooner rather than later. If that happens to coincide
>with the introduction of EG conflict, then I think we would both clearly be
>better off if we can use Russia to our advantage. Or, Italy may promise the
>support, but then take Bud for himself, and I must be prepared for that
>eventuality.
Italy has never mislead me, so when he does reply I may have some
information that could help us both.
>But mostly, I need to decide what to do if Italy simply refuses, urging me
>instead to just hold onto Sev. In that case, it might still be wisest to
>vacate Sev to Russia, even if it means not having a build. It all depends
>on questions I can't answer: namely, what would happen in France then, and
>what will happen between E/G. So, any advice you could give regarding these
>considerations would be most greatly appreciated.
Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
any deadline for your decisions?
Ivy
Message from Russia to Italy and Turkey
Gentlemen,
Have you come to an agreement regarding Budapest?
Splitting the Austrian Centers seems like the way to go,
but I'd like to confirm that everyone is on the same
page here.
Sincerely,
Nick.
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> How are things going over there? I have not heard from
> you lately.
I've not heard from much of anyone lately. The judge problems aren't helping.
I'm still waiting to hear yes or no from Roberto about Bud. Until I hear
*something* from him, it's hard to say what I should do, specifically about
Sev. Hopefully he'll write soon.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Let's get a plan together.
>
Well, doesn't look like we're going to get that deadline extension I had
hoped for but we still have plenty of time. Luckily, the position this fall
doesn't have too many options.
I've been thinking about your question of should we let Russia have SEV and
thus keeping our growth on an even platform vs one of us get a 2-for-1 deal.
Honestly, I don't really have an answer. One on hand, I don't see the
reason in delaying the inevitable (that of you taking SEV from Russia down
the road anyway). On the other hand, Germany's pull back from France has
not made Ivy very happy and thus a Russian presence against Germany might
keep the West unsettled for a longer period of time.
I guess what I need to know from you is, how do you forsee the division of
spoils now that the Austrian demise is imminent. Where will our next areas
of growth come from - for the both of us. Your growth potential seems
rather obvious as SEV, WAR, MOS all seem to be reachable goals. If the EG
alliance has indeed hit a snag, centers from Iberia will not be so easy to
come by for me.
All three of EFG have suggested to me that war between IT seems inevitable.
As long as they think that way, I'd like to prove them wrong. I'm just not
quite sure how to go about that just yet.
France has told me his default move is SPA-MAO and has asked for my fleet to
support that move. I consider this good for Italy in that it gets as many
fleets as possible furthest away from my home.
England is still trying to persuade an EGI attack on France.
Germany is asking me who he should ally with (from a purely tactical
standpoint). I think the answer is France since France is the lesser threat
right now.
Having taken all of this in, I suspect our best move is to play it safe and
allow Russia back into SEV (I doubt he'll get a build as Germany HAS to take
STP right?). This option should leave us with more flexibility next year.
Thus, I guess I'm suggesting:
tri s ser - bud
bla s sev - rum
wes s spa/sc - mao
con - smy
ank - smy
ion - tun
gre - aeg (so that you will remain in CON/ARM in case of unwanted AEG
support - of course, I can forgo this order if you don't care)
That leaves me with a unit unaccounted for, namely TYR. Any suggestions?
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Sorry for the delay in response. I hate sending press when the judge is
down though. I never now if it will arrive or be sent to byte-heaven.
Message [from Russia] to all
"Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3... " (*THONK*) (The sound of a microphone being
tapped.) "I know you're out there, I can hear you breathing..."
Message from Master to all
Extending the deadline one more day, now that USIN seems to be back
with us for good.
Doug
Message from Russia to Turkey
Roberto claims that he favors making Bud Turkish
and Sev Russian again.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> I've been thinking about your question of should we let Russia have SEV and
> thus keeping our growth on an even platform vs one of us get a 2-for-1 deal.
> Honestly, I don't really have an answer. One on hand, I don't see the
> reason in delaying the inevitable (that of you taking SEV from Russia down
> the road anyway). On the other hand, Germany's pull back from France has
> not made Ivy very happy and thus a Russian presence against Germany might
> keep the West unsettled for a longer period of time.
That is my sense as well. If EG conflict breaks out, then having Russia
around to work against Germany could be in our best interests. If Russia
keeps his fleet alive, that will give Germany a more difficult time getting
his fleets out. Russia has also speculated about disbanding the fleet and
building a third army, which (if used against Germany) would also do much to
affect the E/G balance of power.
> I guess what I need to know from you is, how do you forsee the division of
> spoils now that the Austrian demise is imminent. Where will our next areas
> of growth come from - for the both of us. Your growth potential seems
> rather obvious as SEV, WAR, MOS all seem to be reachable goals. If the EG
> alliance has indeed hit a snag, centers from Iberia will not be so easy to
> come by for me.
I actually expect the opposite: EG conflict will make Ivy desperate for an
Italian ally, and the reduction of the threat against France increases your
options to attack France rather than help him. I would think that France's
chances would be even worse against EI cooperation than EG, if England is kept
viable.
As for our next areas of growth, I agree my obvious targets are Sev, Mos and
War. Your obvious targets are Mar and Spa. FG alliance changes things in
France, and that might make it more difficult for you to gain there, though
unless England dies quickly, the odds are still in your favor. I might have
an easier time against Russia, but not if I hope to use him as a janissary
against Germany.
In the final analysis, I'm not opposed to trading centers in Austria in order
to keep the IT balance. For instance, if you were to get stalled in France
while I hit Russia, I would agree to turn Bud over to you. Given what I
perceive to be a rather unpredictable game, my first desire is to see
stability in the south, which means keeping IT forces on par with each other.
To me that includes not letting Turkey outpace Italy, just as much as not
letting Italy outpace Turkey.
> All three of EFG have suggested to me that war between IT seems inevitable.
> As long as they think that way, I'd like to prove them wrong. I'm just not
> quite sure how to go about that just yet.
I'm sure each of EFG have reasons to want you thinking along those lines, and
I wouldn't be surprised if each of their predictions had some angle in it that
favored them.
In any case, the question is what happens long-term. Clearly, a land-based
Turkey isn't a solo proposition. Even if I gained all of Balkans, Russia,
Austria and Germany (which would be all but impossible), that's only 17
centers. So on the assumption I'm going for a solo (a safe assumption to make
in this game), then they're right.
On the other hand, a strong land-based Turkey would be very tough to kill, and
would be in place to have some influence over the balance of power in the end
game. So far, my only concern has been to survive and be viable going into
the mid-game, and that continues to be the approach I'm taking. This game has
been one of shifting alliances so far, and I expect that to continue. So, I'm
taking rather more of a short-term approach than usual, with the emphasis on
stability and flexibility.
In any case, I sincerely share your desire to prove them wrong!
> France has told me his default move is SPA-MAO and has asked for my fleet to
> support that move. I consider this good for Italy in that it gets as many
> fleets as possible furthest away from my home.
Agreed. I might suggest supporting England to Spain, but supporting him to
Spa/sc would not be prudent.
> England is still trying to persuade an EGI attack on France.
At this point, I would encourage you to cooperate with England against France
as soon as possible, though probably not in this turn.
> Germany is asking me who he should ally with (from a purely tactical
> standpoint). I think the answer is France since France is the lesser threat
> right now.
He asked me the very same thing, and I come up with the same answer. I think
it very likely that EG conflict is about to break out, and we surely should be
prepared for it.
> Having taken all of this in, I suspect our best move is to play it safe and
> allow Russia back into SEV (I doubt he'll get a build as Germany HAS to take
> STP right?). This option should leave us with more flexibility next year.
Those are my thoughts as well, and I'm glad you agree. There's still a chance
Russia could disband & rebuild an army, but that could be useful too.
Although, in the long run it makes taking Mos/War more difficult.
> Thus, I guess I'm suggesting:
>
> tri s ser - bud
> bla s sev - rum
> wes s spa/sc - mao
> con - smy
> ank - smy
> ion - tun
> gre - aeg (so that you will remain in CON/ARM in case of unwanted AEG
> support - of course, I can forgo this order if you don't care)
I would prefer you held in Greece; I'm not that concerned about unwanted
support, and the fleet will be gone after this turn anyway.
I noticed your suggestion of Tri S Ser-Bud, but you didn't say what you plan
with Vie. Did you not like Vie S Ser-Bud, with Bul/Tri bouncing in Ser? I
kind of like that as a way of demilitarizing the Balkans, and perhaps our
bounce may have others guessing.
> That leaves me with a unit unaccounted for, namely TYR. Any suggestions?
My suggestion would be Piedmont, in preparation for an attack on France. An
alternative would be to attack Munich, though I doubt Germany will leave it
open, and it would be difficult to keep even if you got it.
Anyway, it all sort of boils down to what we think will happen in the west.
If we expect to see FG vs. E, then I think it would be wisest in the long term
to prop up Russia, and therefore England, giving you better opportunities in
France. In that case, then the move is Ser-Bud, Sev-Rum.
The alternative is to go for the gusto now, which would mean you take Vie and
Bud, I stay in Sev, and try for War/Mos ASAP. The risk here is that it
strongly favors Germany, which in turn weakens England, which in turn
strengthens France. This seems more of a short-term approach to me, and my
gut tells me it may be somewhat short-sighted. but I'm not ruling it out if
you can think of a reason this would be a better way to go.
> Sorry for the delay in response. I hate sending press when the judge is
> down though. I never now if it will arrive or be sent to byte-heaven.
Same here. Hopefully the judge is now back up and running, and this will get
through. I'm entering my orders of Ser-Bud, Bul-Ser, Con/Arm-Smy, Bla S
Sev-Rum, just so I have something in. Let me know what you think of the
above.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Ah, the judge seems to be up. I have a few more alternatives, just for the
sake of argument.
Alternative one is for you to make a stronger anti-French move this turn, with
Ion-WMS, WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie. It doesn't get France's F Spa out of the way
(though he might accomplish that himself), but it does give you a strong
anti-French position.
Alternative two is that I could try a death-stab on Russia now, with Sev-Mos,
Bla S Arm-Sev, Con-Smy, Bul-Con, Ser-Bul (perhaps Ser/Gre-Bul for the bounce).
The drawback is that my attack could bounce if Russia tries to cover Mos,
though I think holding in War makes more sense. Also, there's a good chance
that all but one of my home centers would be covered, and I'd have an unusable
build if I did gain two.
I'm not trying to make things more complicated than they already are, but I
thought I should at least mention them.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
> Roberto claims that he favors making Bud Turkish
> and Sev Russian again.
He's said the same to me, but has not yet really committed to it. In any
case, I have ordered Bla S Sev-Rum, and I'm counting on Ukr-Sev. Austria must
die this year. And, if Italy renegs on his promise, all the more reason I'll
need my Russian ally to be as strong as possible.
There are indications that EG conflict may begin soon. I've already
encouraged England to seek Russian cooperation in that event, so I hope the
two of you will discuss anti-German cooperation soon (if you haven't already).
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> Has he replied at all?? I need to hear from Italy most of all right now,
> and I have not heard a word from him. Is he talking to you?
I did finally hear from him, delayed of course by the judge outage. He said
he favors supporting me to Bud, so my orders at present are to vacate Sev.
> I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
> on his intentions in the west.
Hopefully you'll hear from him soon. I have suggested that he move Ion-WMS,
WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie to set up attacks on France next year.
> Italy has never mislead me, so when he does reply I may have some
> information that could help us both.
Any info at all would be most helpful. I, of course, promise to return the
favor in kind.
> Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
> any deadline for your decisions?
Not really, other than the game deadline tomorrow (Thursday) night.
Germany has written to both me and Italy with the question, would Germany be
better off with a French or English ally, from a purely tactical point of
view. I am of course encouraging him to stick with England. However, I take
it as a sign that he is at least considering abandoning the EG alliance.
There are two ramifications to this. First is that it increases my desire to
keep Russia alive, which should help England, and therefore hurt Germany and
France. Also, I've turned up the heat on urging Italy to work with you
against France.
Naturally, it's imperative that France not be allowed to build. At this
point, I wouldn't rule out FG cooperation, and therefor I would urge you to
use Nth to support Belgium.
I'll write at once if I receive any news, and I hope you'll do the same.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali
>He has not yet really committed to it.
He may have been waiting for me to express an
opinion on Ukr-Sev. I sent him a very neutral letter
hoping to find out which way he was leaning, and he
may not have wanted to commit without being sure I
was on board.
>I'm counting on Ukr-Sev.
It's been ordered.
>I've encouraged England to seek Russian cooperation I hope you will discuss
>anti-German cooperation soon
I've offered my cooperation ever since he moved to
Nth, but he has yet to accept.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
> I have a question for you. I'm a little too close to the action.
> I think that I can't see the forest through the trees.
> If you were me, who would you ally with, France or England? I'm
> only thinking in a strategic sense. Discount personalities.
Man, that's a really difficult question to answer, especially since I usually
consider personality before geography.
Empirically, when I play Germany I have generally had greater success by
allying with France, since FG have more clearly defined borders along the
Maginot line. The problem then becomes dividing up England, and Germany won't
want to let France have Beglium. If France doesn't have Belgium, he'll want
London. Either way, alliance with France against England will mean you'll
need to build up some fleet strength to counter-balance French fleets.
Alliance with England makes it more difficult to establish defensible borders
(as his fleet in Nth makes clear). However, given the current board position,
turning around to attack England now might be difficult, and might take some
time. It would definitely detract from your ability to hit Russia, and would
mean a bigger focus on fleet builds, which weakens your position in the
center. So I guess if it were me, I'd stick with England for now *if* I felt
he could be trusted. But that's a pretty big "if", which only you can answer.
Sorry I haven't given you a definitive answer, but that's a pretty tough
question! What you ultimately decide is up to you, and I'll still seek
alliance with Germany either way. However, your decision does have a
far-reaching on my own plans, so I hope you'll give me some hint as to your
decision.
Regards,
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I did finally hear from him, delayed of course by the judge outage. He said
>he favors supporting me to Bud, so my orders at present are to vacate Sev.
>
> > I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
> > on his intentions in the west.
>
>Hopefully you'll hear from him soon. I have suggested that he move Ion-WMS,
>WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie to set up attacks on France next year.
I have not heard from Italy at all. My best guess is that he is trying to
make up his mind before contacting me. Frankly, at this point, any wise
Italy would have to view Turkish advice with suspicion. Why would you give
Sev to Russia? Wouldn't that mean you were about to attack Italy? Perhaps
not, but any explanation you hand Italy would viewed with suspicion as well.
> Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
> > any deadline for your decisions?
>
>Not really, other than the game deadline tomorrow (Thursday) night.
I wrote that when I thought the deadline was going to be Tuesday night.
>Germany has written to both me and Italy with the question, would Germany be
>better off with a French or English ally, from a purely tactical point of
>view. I am of course encouraging him to stick with England. However, I take
>it as a sign that he is at least considering abandoning the EG alliance.
I have no doubt of this. My oddsmaker gives 3-2 in favor of Germany
switching sides.
>There are two ramifications to this. First is that it increases my desire to
>keep Russia alive, which should help England, and therefore hurt Germany and
>France. Also, I've turned up the heat on urging Italy to work with you
>against France.
Say your advice is followed. Italy attacks France. Russia goes for
Germany. What in the world will you be doing?
In 95% of the games you could just plow forward in any direction now and
win. The rest of the world is in disarray. But you have a problem (wish I
had this problem). If you show signs of dominating, you run the risk of a
stop-Turkey movement. With these players it is almost certain.
>I'll write at once if I receive any news, and I hope you'll do the same.
Ditto. Italy, when he has written in the past, has always been honest with me.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> I have not heard from Italy at all. My best guess is that he is trying to
> make up his mind before contacting me. Frankly, at this point, any wise
> Italy would have to view Turkish advice with suspicion. Why would you give
> Sev to Russia? Wouldn't that mean you were about to attack Italy? Perhaps
> not, but any explanation you hand Italy would viewed with suspicion as well.
Here are the arguments I've made to Roberto.
One, it's very important to me that he and I continue to gain one build
apiece, so I'm not comfortable with his building two, and likewise I don't
expect him to be comfortable with me building two (nor am I really comfortable
with that myself). I've made a big deal about even size & even growth with
Italy, right from the start.
Two, if an FG emerges, it's going to be to both our advantages if England is
strong. England's position is strenthened if Russia is alive to bother
Germany. If Turkey defeats Russia, then Turkey could pressure Germany too;
but not for a year or two at best. A stronger England, and EI cooperation,
make it that much easier for Italy to make gains against France. And an
anti-German Russia would likely be out of position for a Turkish stab later on
anyway.
Conversely, if I go anti-Russian now, and FG emerges, the result is entirely
pro-German, which helps France, which hurts Italy.
> Say your advice is followed. Italy attacks France. Russia goes for
> Germany. What in the world will you be doing?
Recovering my position and getting ready for the Next Big Thing. Assuming I
gain a build this year, I may also have two home centers blocked by Turkish
armies (assuming unwanted support from Aeg). So, most likely I'll need next
year just to get my armies out of Turkey, and in position to respond to
whatever next year brings.
The point is that my attacking Russia now would likely impact the situation in
the West. Since I do not know what that situation will be, I'm hesitant to do
it. Furthermore, my best guess is that it would impact the west in a way I'd
rather not see. If the next turn or two indicates that I'm best off attacking
Russia, I can do it then. If not, then that's one bridge I'll be glad I
didn't burn.
> In 95% of the games you could just plow forward in any direction now and
> win. The rest of the world is in disarray. But you have a problem (wish I
> had this problem). If you show signs of dominating, you run the risk of a
> stop-Turkey movement. With these players it is almost certain.
Almost certain, yes. And hence my strong desire for even IT growth. I don't
want Roberto to start having concerns that I'll outpace him. Indeed, such a
concern may well prevent him from supporting me to Bud in the first place.
And indeed, if I made gains against Russia while he got stalled in France, I
would most likely agree to swap centers in Austria for the sake of stability.
None of which really gives me any long-term solo prospects. But in this game,
I expect less-than-average stability in terms of long-lasting alliances, which
means it's that much harder to envision the board two or three years hence.
As a result, I've tended to take more of a short-term approach than I normally
do, as I mentioned before. Right at this moment, my primary focus is on
stability and flexibility.
Russia claims he's been offering you anti-German cooperation since your move
to Nth. If that's true, then I hope you can at least start the ball rolling.
If EG holds together, then nothing will have been lost. If not, then you've
at least got the icebreaking out of the way and can get down to business. And
even if I end up hitting Russia down the road, a year or two of Russian
efforts against Germany would, I think, be well worthwhile.
In any case, you've not said anything pro or con yet about keeping Russia
alive. I guess there is still a small chance that I might go anti-Russian
this turn, depending on how discussions go with Russia and Italy (and you).
So if you had to vote, would you vote in favor of my propping up Russia or
attacking him?
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> So far, my only concern has been to survive and be
> viable going into the mid-game,
Mine too and it's my belief that a stong fleet-based Italy can alter the
balance of power at either end of the stalemate line in the end-game.
Here's hoping I make it that far.
>
> Agreed. I might suggest supporting England to Spain, but
> supporting him to Spa/sc would not be prudent.
>
England has mentioned Spa/nc but I haven't replied back yet. I doubt I'd
agree to that though. I'd like to see France push a little farther north
before hitting him hard.
>
> At this point, I would encourage you to cooperate with
> England against France as soon as possible, though probably
> not in this turn.
>
I've always told England that I'm willing to help him against France once
the Austrian fleet has been neutralized. That done, I'm prepared to
negotiate with England immediately on a more active level.
>
> I would prefer you held in Greece; I'm not that concerned
> about unwanted support,
Okay, just thought I'd throw out the idea.
>
> I noticed your suggestion of Tri S Ser-Bud, but you didn't
> say what you plan
> with Vie. Did you not like Vie S Ser-Bud, with Bul/Tri
> bouncing in Ser? I
> kind of like that as a way of demilitarizing the Balkans, and
> perhaps our
> bounce may have others guessing.
>
I missed that suggestion in all of the messages and down time. Yes, Vie S
Ser-Bud and Tri-Ser is better.
> > That leaves me with a unit unaccounted for, namely TYR.
> Any suggestions?
>
> My suggestion would be Piedmont, in preparation for an attack
> on France. An alternative would be to attack Munich, though
> I doubt Germany will leave it open, and it would be difficult
> to keep even if you got it.
>
I'd rather keep Germany focused on EF (and even northern Russia from my
perspective) than me so action in Munich has been eliminated from my plan
this fall.
Regarding Piedmont.....
> Alternative one is for you to make a stronger anti-French
> move this turn, with Ion-WMS, WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie
Thank you for mentioning this alternative. I have been seriously
considering this alternative. However, I'd really only want to make these
moves if I could build two fleets this winter and be comfortable in knowing
that I can keep France on the MAO side of Iberia. Of course, that means
that I'd need Budapest and Russia wouldn't get SEV etc, etc. The safer,
more cautious approach was being discussed and I didn't want to seem pushy
in asking for Budapest.
If I moved to PIE and GOL, my having an additional unit shouldn't pose
nearly the problem for you since I would have an immediate enemy in France -
something I currently don't have.
Barring that, I'd probably order Tyr-Ven (at the request of Germany) and Ion
s Gre (at the request of France) and see how the west plays out. I'd build
a fleet in Naples and I'd still have plenty of opportunities against either
Germany or France.
> Alternative two is that I could try a death-stab on Russia now,
> with Sev-Mos, Bla S Arm-Sev, Con-Smy, Bul-Con, Ser-Bul (perhaps
> Ser/Gre-Bul for the bounce). The drawback is that my attack
> could bounce if Russia tries to cover Mos, though I think
> holding in War makes more sense. Also, there's a good chance
> that all but one of my home centers would be covered, and I'd
> have an unusable build if I did gain two.
Actually, the biggest drawback I see is that Rumania is uncovered against
Bud-Rum or the retreating Budapest. Probably not your best moves.
I did just think of a set of moves that might accomplish everything I want.
Vie s Ser - Bud
Tri - Ser
Tyr - Tri (this is the key)
Germany wants me to evacuate Tyrolia. I'm sure I can pass it off as a
(failed) stab against you (perhaps even including Gre-Bul and Ion-Aeg
orders). If the west sees an IT conflict, they're more likely to relax a
bit and we might just catch them off-guard next year. That includes Russia
as well.
I don't know. Maybe I'm the one making the position more complicated now.
I've entered the more cautious orders mentioned above. We still have
tomorrow to finalize a plan of attack.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia and Turkey
>
> Have you come to an agreement regarding Budapest?
> Splitting the Austrian Centers seems like the way to go,
> but I'd like to confirm that everyone is on the same
> page here.
>
Italy has agreed to support Turkey to Budapest. In exchange, we have kindly
asked that Sevastopol be returned to its original owner.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
The theory is that I should be more comfortable with this, since it will
mean he has an enemy in France. I get the impression he'll support me to
Bud if I request it; but in that case, would not make any overtly
anti-French moves at this time.
Much of my reasoning in pursuing this approach surrounds the impact on
England and Germany should I attack Russia. That being the case, I'm hoping
for some English perspective. Lacking that, I may go anti-Russian after
all, although it feels like an appeasement of Italy. Still, if it does send
Roberto toward France's coast, it might be worthwhile.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Italy to Russia and Turkey
>
> Have you come to an agreement regarding Budapest?
> Splitting the Austrian Centers seems like the way to go,
> but I'd like to confirm that everyone is on the same
> page here.
>
Italy has agreed to support Turkey to Budapest. In exchange, we have kindly
asked that Sevastopol be returned to its original owner.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
The theory is that I should be more comfortable with this, since it will
mean he has an enemy in France. I get the impression he'll support me to
Bud if I request it; but in that case, would not make any overtly
anti-French moves at this time.
Much of my reasoning in pursuing this approach surrounds the impact on
England and Germany should I attack Russia. That being the case, I'm hoping
for some English perspective. Lacking that, I may go anti-Russian after
all, although it feels like an appeasement of Italy. Still, if it does send
Roberto toward France's coast, it might be worthwhile.
Regards,
Ali
Message from France to Germany, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Just to let you know that I will be pretty busy today.
The Dauphin has me doing some experiments in the dungeon
on some English prisoners. Therefore I may be slow in
getting back to you. But do not hesitate to write me, I
will write back, just a little delay during the day.
Now, off to my job. I wonder what this long pointed
thing with the three curved blades does?
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
>me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
>Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
[You and Italy have noticed, haven't you, that Ion cannot move to Wms?]
I have given the current situation a lot of thought and have come to the
rather predictable conclusion that I do want Italy to attack France. Prior
to getting your last e-mail I was preparing to send you a message inquiring
precisely about the possibility that you just outlined -- Italy gets
Budapest while you go for Russia.
Your situation is far more secure than Italy's (or anyone else's), because
Italy has too many boundaries. He cannot, or at least should not, continue
with any western adventures with limited resources.
If you respond favorably, I would like to send a joint message to Germany,
Italy, and you suggesting that Germany and Turkey take out Russia and GEI
take out France, leaving just the four of us. I might even go so far at to
suggest a possible division of spoils, at least in the west. That's easy
for me to do, since I would have the least.
What I have in mind (besides obvious, immediate self interest) is still the
ultimate scenerio that you and I have discussed before. A EIGT ending
still leaves G & I in the middle to pick off one at a time.
If you can get back to me before noon with approval, I will send such a
message with modifications as you may suggest. If I don't hear from you, I
will probably send it anyway for time is short.
Cheers,
Ivy
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
First let me confirm my understanding of the main options we're considering.
The first is a more conservative approach, along the lines of the following:
Vie S Ser - Bud
Tri - Ser
Bul - Ser
Bla S Sev - Rum
Con - Smy
Arm - Smy
Gre Hold (or -> Bul)
Ion S Gre (or -> Tun)
Tyr ?
The second is a more aggressive approach, involving Vie S Tri-Bud, Tyr-Pie,
WMS-GOL, Ion-WMS, with me staying in Sevastopol. Thereafter, you attack
France in force while I attack Russia.
It seems that I want you to attack France, and you want me to attack Russia,
and neither of us is wholly comfortable with the other gaining Bud. All very
reasonable it seems to me. The conservative approach would seem to give us
both more flexibility, whereas if we each attack our prospective targets,
we'll each have a better sense of security within our alliance, and probably
beter prospects for gain.
Assuming we take the latter approach, I'd like to re-address the issue of Mos.
Of course, as you pointed out, my original though will not work due to lack of
coverage in Rum. What would you think of Sev-Mos, Bla S Arm-Sev, Ser S
Bul-Rum, Gre/Con-Bul?
The risk, of course, is that Austria might order to Smy. If I gained Moscow,
I'd still build one and could boot him out pretty easily. If I bounce Mos,
then I won't be able to build, but Arm will be still be there to dislodge Smy
next year. I don't know that Aeg-Smy is a likely move, but it would mean at
least some chance that Austria might stay alive until next year.
The reward is that I might gain two, thereby keeping up with you; there are a
couple of ways I could end up building one; and also a chance that I might go
without. If Austria did end in Smy, his fleet would be out of position to
threaten anything else, and so there's still a high probability he'd be
eliminated next year. But the main advantage I see is that if Mos goes, it
would take Russia down to one, which will be a big help even if I must then
expel Austria from Smy.
I keep telling myself that this plan is rash, but something about it keeps
calling to me. I guess if I stay in Sev, my relations with Russia will be
trashed anyway, and so attacking Mos wouldn't make things any worse. But yet
I really want to see Austria gone this year. Playing conservatively is safer,
but taking the risk has a much bigger payoff. A bird in the hand is worth two
in the bush, but he who hesitates is lost, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
Anyway, if we did go the more aggressive route, do you think my Mos attack
would be the way to go, or would you advise just holding in Sev so as to
ensure Austria's elimination?
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Arrrgh! I hate these judge outages, they don't make anything easier. I wrote
you this morning, but I still haven't seen a confirmation. My orders are
still in with the "conservative" plan, but I've not ruled out going the other
route if we can talk it through.
Ali
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
Well the judge seems to be out again, so I feel like I'm sending this by
carrier pidgeon: it may be out of date by the time it reaches you.
In any case, Roberto claims to favor supporting me to Bud, but hasn't yet
made a firm commitment. It's clear to me he really wants Bud for himself.
So if I take Bud, chances are I'll still have more Italian units around me
than I'd like. On the other hand, attacking Russia by staying in Sev would
seem to favor Germany.
At present, my orders are to attack Bud, but I could go either way. What
would you advise?
Ali
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
I know we've been having problems with the judge, but I'm desperate for some
word from you. Will you be attacking Russia this turn? If so, are you
attacking Moscow? I ask because I am considering Mos myself; and the last
thing I want to see is you and me bouncing there due to miscommunication.
Of course I ask that you keep this information strictly confidential! And I
pledge to do the same.
Please write at your earliest convenience. Whatever we do, let's not screw
each other up now.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
Just writing to touch base (assuming this gets through). My orders are
unchanged, Bla S Sev-Rum, and I'm removing my wait with this press. I get
the impression that Roberto really doesn't want to support me to Bud, but
that he will go through with it now that he's promised it.
I don't know if it's the judge outage or what, but I've heard nothing from
England, France or Germany in quite some time. But the last indications
were that Germany is seriously considering switching sides to GF. If so,
then England will surely get off his duff sooner or later and write you.
What are your thoughts on disbanding the fleet and rebuilding in Mos, vs.
keeping the fleet?
Let's stay in touch,
Ali
Message from Germany to all
The US Labor Day weekend is upon us. I'm afraid that I'll be out of
touch until Tuesday. (you can talk about me now)
Fredd
Message from Russia to Turkey
>Message from Turkey to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>Just writing to touch base (assuming this gets through).
Yeah, I can't recall the last time it took less than
16 hours for USIN to process my mail. 8-(
>My orders are Bla S Sev-Rum, and I'm removing my wait
I've got Sev-Rum, and I tried to remove wait
yesterday afternoon. Perhaps it's gone through by now.
>Roberto really doesn't want to support me to Bud, but
>that he will go through with it now that he's promised it.
I think he's sincere. Stabbing you now will make
him the dominant Power in the East, but is likely to
result in a 3-way. Getting you and I to attack Germany,
while he heads west gives him solo options.
>What are your thoughts on disbanding the fleet and rebuilding in Mos, vs.
>keeping the fleet?
Germany is a threat as a land Power, so I think
the Army makes more sense, unless he does something
foolish like GoB-StP/SC, and England sneaks into Den.
I'm not going to make a firm decision until I see the
moves, though. What do you think I should do?
>Let's stay in touch,
Judge willing. 8-)
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
What a communications mess. I don't know when USIN came back up; I was in bed.
My moves are in now, but I may still have time to change them to correspond
with whatever you have done.
To the best of your knowledge is Italy getting Budapest and two fleet
builds, so that he can attack France? If so, I will try to change my moves.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> What a communications mess. I don't know when USIN came back up; I was in
bed.
Same here.
> My moves are in now, but I may still have time to change them to
correspond
> with whatever you have done.
>
> To the best of your knowledge is Italy getting Budapest and two fleet
> builds, so that he can attack France? If so, I will try to change my
moves.
To the best of my knowledge no, not at this moment. Roberto and I were
supposed to finalize everything yesterday, and the judge was down all day
yesterday. So my orders are still to attack Bud, and I assume Roberto is
supporting me.
I wrote Roberto twice yesterday, but I've not heard back from him. If it
can be safely arranged, there's a fair chance that we'll change our plan.
However, it makes me very nervous to change things when (a) the judge is
being so flaky, and (b) the deadline is past. I'd rather coordinate with a
less-preferred plan, than to have one of us zig while the other zags.
I'll write at once if anything develops.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Well it seems the judge is back up. I had hoped we could finalize our fall
plans yesterday. At this point, I'm leaning in favor of you taking Bud if
it means you'll build 2 fleets and attack France, but my orders are still
those of our original plan.
I will change orders to hold in Sev (or attack Russia) if I hear from you to
that effect. I'm nervous about changing things when the judge is being
flaky and the deadline is passed, so I won't change anything until you
confirm.
Please write at your earliest convenience.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
I was just penning a response when I got your latest message.
>
> First let me confirm my understanding of the main options
> we're considering.
>
Those are the two options.
>
> Anyway, if we did go the more aggressive route, do you think
> my Mos attack
> would be the way to go, or would you advise just holding in
> Sev so as to ensure Austria's elimination?
>
If we took this tact, I think the gamble in Moscow would be the correct
move. Holding in SEV will burn the last bridge between you and Russia. The
fewer units he has, the less likely he can retaliate. If you don't move to
Moscow, in all probablity Russia would still have two armies next year.
Nothing insurmountable mind you, but two is a whole lot better than one in
this game.
> At this point, I'm leaning in favor of you taking Bud if
> it means you'll build 2 fleets and attack France, but my
> orders are still those of our original plan.
I'll be honest. I am the one who is late so if you don't want to diplome
with a late player, I fully respect that decision. I'm only diploming now
since I've asked our moderator for an extension due to the judge and am
waiting on his decision. The good news is, there is no pressure that the
moves will adjudicate while we're in the middle of talks. I whole-heartedly
refuse to issue orders while the judge is down though since I cannot read
the confirmation message to make sure I didn't mis-order.
I too am in favor of the more aggressive option. I like how our alliance
has progressed and I see no reason why we wouldn't eventually make these
moves next year anyway. Why delay the inevitable? The downside is, it will
probably reintroduce the EG alliance quicker than otherwise but that may
happen anyway. German moves this spring though will have cost the EG side
an entire year of production. On the other hand, we'd be moving forward
full steam.
I will wait to enter orders until I hear from you. Whatever you decide,
cautious, aggressive, or "you know what, I can't diplome with a late power",
is fine by me.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
Roberto & Ali,
I have now heard from both of you and wish to change my moves to be
consistent with a joint attack on France. If I get word from Italy that he
is attacking France, then I will immediately change my moves. I do not
know if Italy needs any reassurances from Turkey in order to reach this
decision, so I write both of you.
If MAO is dislodged, I will not retreat to North Africa.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
Ivy,
What moves would you like me to order this turn as a joint attack of France?
WMS s MAO-SPA will not succeed although it may prevent France from reaching
the MAO.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Ok, I'm changing my orders with this press. Please make your own attack on
Bud. I am also counting on Tyr-Pie, and WMS-GOL (or whatever you and England
work out). Also, I need Gre-Bul, so I can bounce from either Con or Bla.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England and Italy
Gents,
> I have now heard from both of you and wish to change my moves to be
> consistent with a joint attack on France. If I get word from Italy that he
> is attacking France, then I will immediately change my moves. I do not
> know if Italy needs any reassurances from Turkey in order to reach this
> decision, so I write both of you.
Such reassurance is given. I look forward to our mutual success.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
I have informed Roberto that I am no longer attacking Bud. My change in
orders has been confirmed. Looks like we may be able to pull this off after
all.
Must be brief. Will write later.
Ali
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
>
>
> I am resigned to losing MAO, but if France takes MAO from
> Spain, doesn't that open up Spain for you?
>
Yes.
> Why not MAO->Spa(sc) & Ion->Tys?
>
I assume you meant WMS-spa(sc).
^^^
I'll have to ask Ali. Is is alright if I make this move and risk gaining 3
builds? I can always waive a build.
Roberto
btw, Ion would move to Tunis leaving the TYS open for my new fleet out of
Rome/Naples.
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
Must go eat.
I've changed my moves, although I would still like a final confirmation
from Roberto.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
>
> But the new fleet could still move to TYS next spring,
> because TYS would be moving on to WES or LYO.
>
I will take another look.
Ali, do you agree with Ivy's tactical analysis regarding my fleet move to
TUN or TYS?
> if you know that France is attacking from Spain.
I have been asked to order 'WMS s Spa/sc - MAO'. He's been honest with me
to date. I see no advantage to France to ask for this support if he doesn't
intend to use it.
> So, when (if?) you give me the word that you are going
> through with this, please confirm that you want me to
> vacate MAO now.
I will issue Tyr-Pie and WMS-Spa/sc pending no objection from Ali for my
potential 3rd build this year. I have no expectation to keep Spain next
year but would hope to exchange it for Marseilles if possible.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
I must confess I'm not comfortable with your gaining 3 while I risk staying
even. How would you feel about picking up Spa and Vie, while I take Bud and
Sev? That would be much safer for me, since I can self-bounce in Smy, Gre/Bla
self-bounce in Bul, and thereby we guarantee Austria's elimination.
If you agree, please let me know at once so I can change my orders.
Just for the record, regarding late diplomacy. I am normally quite picky
about sticking to the rules. In this case, since my orders are confirmed
without error, I feel I should be allowed to continue sending press after the
deadline. This is especially true due to the judge outages. It would be a
shame to see the game degraded due to technical problems.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> I must confess I'm not comfortable with your gaining 3 while
> I risk staying even.
>
Damn! Never should have asked for your permission. :)
> How would you feel about picking up Spa and Vie, while
> I take Bud and Sev?
>
That sounds fair. I'm reasonably sure I will reach Spain this fall. Even
if I don't, I'll still get a build and have reasonable chances next year to
catch up to you. Regardless, I've always considered Budapest Turkish and
haven't really felt completely comfortable taking it.
Just to recap:
Our orders will be:
vie s ser - bud
gre - bul/sc
tyr - pie
wms - spa/sc
ion - tys (your opinion on this is still asked if you have time)
tri sits and spins (previously we were bouncing in Serbia)
ser - bud
bul - rum
sev s bul - rum
bla - bul/ec
con - smy
arm - smy
I like those moves very much. Austria is eliminated, my Greece province is
clear of foreign units, and we've demilitarized quite nicely.
>
> If you agree, please let me know at once so I can change my orders.
>
Change them orders.
> Just for the record, regarding late diplomacy. I am normally
> quite picky about sticking to the rules.
>
As am I but I feel justified this time. If I had to enter my orders this
morning, the more cautious approach would have been taken and the game could
very well have been decidedly different in the end.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
ps: I will enter orders 30 minutes from sending this mail. Hopefull an hour
is enough time for you to change your orders. If you do so earlier, let me
know and I will enter orders immediately.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> Our orders will be:
>
> vie s ser - bud
> gre - bul/sc
> tyr - pie
> wms - spa/sc
> ion - tys (your opinion on this is still asked if you have time)
> tri sits and spins (previously we were bouncing in Serbia)
>
> ser - bud
> bul - rum
> sev s bul - rum
> bla - bul/ec
> con - smy
> arm - smy
Yes, absolutely. I am definitely in favor of moving to Tys, as it puts it
that much closer to Iberia. I would also propose Tri-Tyr; that would give us
an excellent offensive line, and maintains Italian influence in the center.
My orders are in as listed above.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
As I understand it, the EI plan is to allow France into MAO, thereby WMS into
Spa/sc. Roberto has agreed to support me to Bud, so he takes Spa, Vie and I
take Bud, Sev. So I would highly urge you to allow France to MAO =).
Fingers crossed,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> ser - bud
> bul - rum
> sev s bul - rum
> bla - bul/ec
> con - smy
> arm - smy
> ps: I will enter orders 30 minutes from sending this mail. Hopefull an hour
> is enough time for you to change your orders. If you do so earlier, let me
> know and I will enter orders immediately.
My orders are confirmed.
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I will issue Tyr-Pie and WMS-Spa/sc pending no objection from Ali for my
>potential 3rd build this year. I have no expectation to keep Spain next
>year but would hope to exchange it for Marseilles if possible.
I say let Italy take a shot with Wes->Spa. Whether he makes it or not, he
has started a war with France. That's good for both you and me. If he
succeeds, we will simply insist that he cool his heels for a while until
the situation evens out a little.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
MAO->IRI has been entered.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Duh, why don't I think of these things? Of course, Tri must hold, since Bud
will be dislodged.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
Orders are in! Half hour to results.
I ordered:
vie s tri
tri s ser - bud
Roberto
Message from Master to all
Not sure if any of these emails are getting through . . .
I'm have extreme email difficulty with my usual conduit -- if you've sent
me any email in the last day or so, please send it directly to
dtmasse@us.ibm.com
I'm assuming we can process orders tonight?
Doug
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> dtmasse@us.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
> for game 'titleist' to Fri Aug 31 2001 23:30:00 EST.
>
All my guilt for negotiating after the deadline has be exorcised.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Master
Doug,
It just dawned on me that I never wrote you about this weekend. I will be
going out of town this evening, and will not be back until Monday evening
(Sept. 3). During that time, I will be out of e-mail contact. So, depending
on what happens in the fall move, i.e. assuming I have a build coming, I may
need an extension through Tuesday.
My sincere apologies for not mentioning this before, for some reason I thought
I had things all taken care of, then I realized I never sent the message.
Unfortunately, it looks like I won't even be able to see the fall result until
I get back. I've removed my wait, but it looks like others still have it set,
and I'll be gone when the new deadline comes.
Thanks,
- Jeff
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> > dtmasse@us.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
> > for game 'titleist' to Fri Aug 31 2001 23:30:00 EST.
Ack! I'm going out of town this evening, and will be gone until Monday
evening. I'll be out of e-mail contact that whole time. So I may not even
see the result until I get back. =/
> All my guilt for negotiating after the deadline has be exorcised.
Heh, indeed. I didn't think it would be an issue, what with the judge
outages.
Looks like all orders are in. Now if I could only get everyone to set no
wait....
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well, after that last-minute flurry of negotiations, all is quiet. I'll be
going out of town this evening, and will be gone through Monday evening. I'll
be out of e-mail contact during that time. So, I may not even see the results
until I get back. I've removed my wait, but it seems others still have it
set.
In any case, it seems we've got a good deal worked out. It would be nicer if
you were getting a build out of it, but at least Italy won't build three
(assuming he keeps his promise). Anyway, I'm sure you would share my delight
in seeing Italy take Spain.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to all
To whom it may concern:
I have declared a national holiday throughout Turkey. As a result, the
Turkish diplomatic office will be closed as our people celebrate three days of
drunken debauchery, ah, that is to say, prayer and meditation.
Our diplomatic corps will resume their work in three days. Until then, may
Allah smile on you all.
Ali Baba
Austria: Fleet Aegean Sea → Smyrna (*bounce, dislodged*)
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Turkish Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*void, dislodged*)
England: Army Belgium SUPPORT Fleet Picardy (*cut*)
England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Irish Sea
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Army Belgium
England: Fleet Picardy SUPPORT Army Belgium (*cut, dislodged*)
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Army Paris → Picardy
France: Army Burgundy → Belgium (*bounce*)
France: Army Paris → Picardy
France: Fleet Portugal SUPPORT Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Germany: Fleet Baltic Sea → Denmark
Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Army Livonia → St Petersburg
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland
Germany: Army Livonia → St Petersburg (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Silesia → Munich
Germany: Army Silesia → Munich
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Aegean Sea
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Aegean Sea
Italy: Army Trieste → Serbia
Italy: Army Tyrolia → Trieste
Italy: Army Vienna SUPPORT Turkish Army Serbia → Budapest
Italy: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT French Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Livonia (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Livonia
Turkey: Army Armenia → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea → Bulgaria (east coast)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Serbia → Budapest
Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Bulgaria → Rumania (*cut*)
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