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Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> That is now two you owe me for. :-)
Heheh, duly noted.
> Can you find me a supply center somewhere? I have to get
> units dislodge to artificially get builds. :-)
Be that as it may, you used that tactic to good advantage. Certainly, your
position has been much improved this turn.
> At least I can guarantee denying England a build, if I am
> completely conservative. If I get a little bolder Italy
> could betray me and help England get a build. Let me
> know what your hear.
I would be truly shocked if Italy cooperated with England this turn. As for
Roberto's long-term intentions, I think much will be revealed by what he
chooses to do with Tyr.
> But it looks like Germany will get one more (StP) Are
> you going to allow Russia to take Sev?
That is my desire. However, since I did not move to Rum, I am now dependant
on Italy's support for Bud, and indeed Italy has not yet really agreed to
Turkish ownership of Bud. But if Austria's centers can be split evenly
between I/T/R, that would be my preference.
> Do you find working with Roberto to be frustrating? I
> sure wish that you and I were neighbors.
He can be. He's easy to get along with, as long as you go along with what he
wants, and to date it's been in my best interests to do so. But he can also
be difficult (impossible?) to budge if you don't see eye to eye.
And I can definitely tell you that had I drawn England, this would have been a
*very* different game! ;^)
Regards,
Ali
Message from Italy to France
>
> Thanks for the support to Spain. It was not what I
> wanted, but good manners requires that I at least thank
> you for it. :-)
>
You are welcome. :)
While it may not have been what you wanted, the results of this past spring
could have been drastically worse for you. If I were you, I'd be throwing a
party right about now.
> I suppose that you would not consider support for
> a move to MAO this season?
Actually, I would consider supporting Spain to the MAO. Then next spring, I
can retreat from the West Med and we can return to our original treaty. (I
doubt England would retreat to NAF now and even if he did, I won't have the
Austrian fleet at my back to worry about).
> Would you consider attacking it just to
> break support if I felt that was useful? I have yet to
> look at a map, so I do not yet have a plan.
>
I would consider attacking but that would be a very last resort. If you
just wanted to attack to break support and not actually dislodge the unit,
then Portugal seems like the logical candidate for that job.
> If I asked you to support me to Munich you would probably
> choke and cough, right? :-) It would be nice to have
> some sucess .... :-)
>
Support to Munich? Hmmm. I'd have to think about that but you're probably
right, I'd cough. As an outsider, I see tension between EG mounting and I
have no real reason to stop that tension. Supporting you to Munich might
just rekindle the EG alliance and that's not what either of us wants.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
I'm honored to hear from you, I have enjoyed
exchanging letters with your brother, Prince Boar.
>Congratulations on getting rid of that Austrian army.
>Are you going to try and talk Turkey into giving you
>Sevastopol. I suppose that would require Italy allowing him Budapest. Do
>you sense any cracks in the IT alliance?
The Turk was not expecting Bud-Rum, so he thought
he would have a supported attack on Bud this Fall.
IT impresses me as an alliance of convenience, so I
suppose Ven S Tri-Bud, Bla S Sev-Rum is possible
with Italy building two, and attacking Turkey now
that Austria has been eliminated. If I ask for Sev,
I expect that Turkey will give it to me, but I have
to consider the German threat to StP/War/Mos before
contemplating that request.
>I survived by a bit of luck. I never ever expected him to leave France. I
>guess I should be celebrating!
He was expecting an English stab, (Since England
refused to agree to my plan for us stabbing Germany, I
told Germany about it, and showed him that the best
England could do attacking you was one possible, but
unlikely, Center, while stabbing Germany gave him two
without fail. I'm still not sure why England rejected
the plan.), and he wanted to be able to ally with you,
if it occurred.
>I am not out of the woods yet, but things look a little
>better. That just probably means I am in store for a
>real bad thing to happen :-_
You can dislodge MAO, (with help from Italy), and
probably F Pic, as well. Given EF Nth, you might even
be able to convince Germany to stab England, instead.
>Votre cher ami,
>-- Xavier
_________________________________________________________________
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Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> But Ali, how does E/G/I/T become E/I/T, especially when G is at 7 or 8 or 9
> centers? Answer: EI&T have to team up and take out Germany. And that
> leaves both Italian and Turkish units on "my" side of the classic east/west
> stalemate line.
>
> So my dilemma and your dilemma are the same. How do I get you back on your
> side of the stalemate line in the northeast while you gobble up Italy?
> Also, how do I help you gobble up Italy without crossing over to your side
> of the stalemate line in the Mediterrean?
Here is how I might approach this as England. I work overtime to make an
arrangement with Italy, with the first move being an Italian army entering
Marseilles. Italy then supports my fleet to Spa/nc. F (nc) does nothing to
threaten Italy, and since his support would have to specify the coast, it's
very safe for him. Then MAO S Spa-Por, leaving Spain for Italy (to be taken
with an army of course).
Meanwhile, I begin to harrass Germany, perhaps by attacking Holland or
Denmark. I encourage Turkey to keep Russia alive, so that I can make use of
his fleet. Russia and England have never been hostile, and neither threatens
the other; and Russia will be only too glad for an ally against the German.
Even if Russia is ultimately taken out by the Turk, having his fleet around
for a year or two is still helpful. And if Russia disbands the fleet and
rebuilds as an army, then that's all the more pressure Germany will have at
his back.
I don't expect much gain from Germany at first, but I can cause him lots of
grief with relative impunity. And whatever happens with Turkey and Russia,
*someone* will be there hitting him from the other side. After all, I've been
carefully nurturing my relationship with Turkey since the start of the game.
;^)
As France goes down to EI pressure, the gains from it give me new units that
first make a feint against the German homeland, then move to secure
Scandinavia. Once I've got fleets in Nth, Hel, Ska, then Scandinavia goes by
the numbers, especially if I can keep Germany from building a third fleet and
keep his armies off-balance. Meanwhile, I augment R/T pressure by guiding
Italy to Munich. Italy has already shown a lot of interest in the region, and
it would take little to convince him that Munich fits in with his plans to
control the center. I might support an Italian army through Burgundy, if I
can first secure Paris for myself.
While all this is taking place, I work on the angle that Turkey eventually has
to build fleets. This works to get Italian fleets pulled back from Gibraltar,
and gives Turkey further incentive to attack German centers to fuel the
shipyards for a surprise build. Once the IT conflict begins, it's pretty much
gravy. Having secured Scandinavia, I now take Germany proper, and either pump
armies into Russia or grab the rest of France and strike the Med. Probably
depends on whether Turkey or Italy is getting ahead in the south. The obvious
goal is to gain the 17 northern centers plus either Tunis, Warsaw or Moscow.
An alternative to this course would be to really shake things up and make a
peace with France. I start the same way, by coaxing an Italian army into
Marseilles. France will then do whatever is in France's best interest, and if
I simply sail away he's sure to let bygones be bygones (if he's a good player,
which I suspect he is) and attack Italy. That gives me lots of firepower
against Germany, and Scandinavia will be a cakewalk while France gets as
bogged down against Italy as he is against England now.
I take the same approach with building R/T pressure against Germany, except
under this scenario everything goes much faster in the east. Ultimately
Turkey runs out of room and attacks Italy. Just when France thinks he'll at
last get a piece of Italy, I strike him from behind with a crushing blow, and
this time there's nobody left to come to his rescue. Making peace with France
would take some diplomatic effort, and nobody likes to reverse a course after
devoting a lot of resources to it. But flexibility is the name of the game,
and if a course of action proves fruitless, the prudent man chooses another
path.
Obviously, these are both rosy scenarios. But I would certainly count both as
well within the realm of possibility.
> I want these problems! I would give anything to have these problems! Just
> get us there and we will work on them together! 8-)
I'm tryin, mate, I'm tryin. =)
> More seriously, how do we get Italy to work against Germany, when Italy can
> see from a mile away that he is likely to be caught between us afterwards?
See above. My hunch is that Italy sees control of the center as his ticket to
a solo. Work on that, and get him thinking thoughts of Munich. Make sure you
don't threaten him with your fleets, so that he feels he can handle any
Turkish surprise.
Meanwhile, I do my best to convince him there will be no Turkish surprise. If
he's peaceful with England and Turkey, he's less likely to attack either for
fear the other will strike from behind, and he'll be eager to bolster his
position in a way that helps protect him from both. Controlling the center
does that, as well as improving his chances of a successful game-winning stab
at the end.
See, under such a scenario as I describe above, my big unresolved problem is,
what happens when I attack Italy? Eventually I'll run out of room building
only armies, in which case conflict with Italy becomes inevitable. No matter
how I roll this around in my head, it comes out to your advantage.
> If we get there, and our problems are not resolvable, we always have the
> 14-14-6 option. The two 14s would be declared co-champs under Doug's
> rules. The spectators deserve something bloodier than this, but at lease
> we need to keep all options open.
Well, "keep your options open" is my motto. I fully expect to see some
serious efforts to take a solo in this game. So far I've been setting myself
up for a draw position, and I've been giving a lot of thought as to how to
break out of that. It all comes down to attacking Italy, and the timing is
everything.
I can't do it now, because I haven't secured my land position well enough yet.
If I do it too soon, I can't give a proper effort in Russia, and Germany
becomes dominant. If I do it too late, then you end up dominating the north
and IT both get consolation prizes, even in the event of a draw. "Just right"
would probably be if I can somehow gain War and Mos in the same turn, with Con
& Smy open for builds, but Italy's sure to see that coming a mile away and
could launch a pre-emptive strike.
Everyone has their own motivations. Sure, I'd love to come out of this game
with a solo, or with the title as part of a draw, or even a *share* of the
title as part of a draw. But the bottom line is, I want to survive the game,
and in the end I'll fight hard for even the bottom slot in a 3-way. Wouldn't
hurt my JDPR any. So far, my only focus has been to survive and be viable
going into the mid-game. I could still get a nasty surprise from Italy this
turn, but barring that, this early goal seems to have been accomplished. So
now it's time to start looking more to the horizon, so to speak.
I hope you don't mind my long-winded ramble. I enjoy the discussion, and I
find that the process of saying it all out loud can sometimes be quite
instructive.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
Yes, I must admit that I am happy about the way things
turned out. If Germany had moved to Paris, I would be
toast. With those moves, Bre->MAO would have been
better. But with the moves that we made, it was a wash.
I know that you are happier with this choice, hence it
was the best one.
For me to take the MAO, I will indeed need your help. I
realize that you prefer my taking it from Spa, as that
gets me out of the Med. It would of course make me more
comfortable taking it from Por. I do appreciate your
comments about withdrawing. But things have not turned
around just yet. Germany and England are not at war,
just not working together effectively. They could still
put it back together.
I think that you and I need to work together to push them
into that War. It would profit both of us. I could join
one side and have some security and a little growth. You
could have the freedom to deal with Turkey. He will
eventually run out of room to grow North and there you
will be. Do you have a preference, perhaps an FGI
alliance would be effective. That presumes that I could
arrange such an alliance with Germany.
I guess we have some time to ponder and I need not rush
things. This time I believe that the deadline is Monday
night at 11:30 PM Eastern. I hope that I have my
troubles straightened out. I was hoping to talk with you
more last deadline, that is why I was so shocked at the
deadline. But since I was late, I could not negotiate
and just had to turn in orders after I read Doug's
message.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
My Friend Nick,
I must chuckle. But you see that Xavier and Prince Boar
are one and the same! Perhaps you have caught my
Lectures on Philosophy that occur yearly on Cable? I
felt that since we were friends and have communicated so
often, I could drop the formality of my title. Although
I must admit that I do really like the sound of my title:
Prince Boar. But Xavier is my first name. If it
confuses you I can go back to Prince Boar. My Brother
has no name other than the Dauphin. As the oldest son
and heir to the throne of France, that is his only title
until he becomes King and adopts a formal name.
I do appreicate your help with my registration. It was
just the ticket.
I do hope that you can manage to get Sevastopol. You
then have the option of disbanding your fleet and
building an army. It will be a bit of a risk in that
Germany could instead take Warsaw and not St. Petes. You
could order St. Petes to Livonia to break support, but if
he attacked Warsaw from Livonia, which is likely, he
might walk into St. Petes and you would loose another
center. I think that the Turk is willing to help you.
It is just a matter of how things go between himself and
Italy. He needs Italian help for him to grow. But he
will want you around in case Italy gets greedy.
My question for you is, now that England did not stab
Germany, would Germany be willing to ally with me. He
wanted the option if the stab occurred. But it did not.
Is there a way for England and Germany to get past their
current problem? Their alliance is not dead, but England
is so far behind that he is almost starting over.
Meanwhile Turkey grows and Italy grows and Germany grows.
:-)
-- Xavier
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
>My Friend Nick,
>
>I must chuckle. But you see that Xavier and Prince Boar
>are one and the same! Perhaps you have caught my
>Lectures on Philosophy that occur yearly on Cable? I
>felt that since we were friends and have communicated so
>often, I could drop the formality of my title.
Ahh, I wondered for a moment, but was working and did
not have time to check my files. Had you not opened
your letter with, "Czar Nicholas:", I would have likely
reached the right conclusion. My apologies.
>I do appreciate your help with my registration. It was
>just the ticket.
Glad I could help.
>I do hope that you can manage to get Sevastopol. You
>then have the option of disbanding your fleet and
>building an army. It will be a bit of a risk in that
>Germany could instead take Warsaw and not St. Petes. You
>could order St. Petes to Livonia to break support, but if
>he attacked Warsaw from Livonia, which is likely, he
>might walk into St. Petes and you would loose another
>center. I think that the Turk is willing to help you.
>It is just a matter of how things go between himself and
>Italy. He needs Italian help for him to grow. But he
>will want you around in case Italy gets greedy.
Yes, it depends on whether Turkey trusts Italy to
support Ser-Bud, and what Germany does. The Turkish
move to Sev was intended to be a Spring visit, only.
>My question for you is, now that England did not stab
>Germany, would Germany be willing to ally with me. He
>wanted the option if the stab occurred. But it did not.
In previous existences, I have, on occasion, shifted
to defend against a stab that did not occur, and found
myself in a position to apologize for my lack of trust,
and then stab the next turn. 8-) Germany isn't well
positioned to do so, though. Ivy is away until Sunday,
so you have time to work on Germany. I'll certainly
do what I can to encourage EG conflict, probably
through England, though.
> Is there a way for England and Germany to get past their current problem?
Well, yes. They haven't harmed each other, yet.
On the other hand, Germany's retreat sets them back
at least a year, so unless Italy stabs Turkey, they
have an initiative problem. This Fall will be
interesting.
Nick.
Message from Germany to France
Boar:
Sorry I couldn't tell you that I was moving out. The reasoning is
obvious though.
You're quite right in pointing out that MAO didn't support NTH into
ENG. More important is that there is an English fleet in the North Sea
on a fall turn. That's not going over well.
Fredd.
Message from Germany to Italy
> Tyrolia will be exiting post-haste (and not to Munich as
> Russia has suggested).
That's good news. Hopefully not to BOH either.
Can I also count on you NOT supporting France to MUN this turn?
I'm assuming that you guys will eliminate Austria this turn.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
> I know why England moved to the North Sea. No explanation necessary.
What did he tell you? He told me that he needed to protect BEL.
Unfortunately, it makes a nice jumping off point to attack DEN or HOL
also.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
PB:
I'll give you one thing, you're a tough nut to crack.
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Boy that move to the North Sea really has turned out to have hurt us
both quite a bit. There's actually four fleets working on the MAO now.
Plus I have to consider a supported attack on HOL and MUN. Add in that
there's no way that you can take Brest now. Yuck.
Before you ask, I'm not going to give up HOL. I started writing that
I'd do it if and only if you took it from the North Sea. That move in
itself seems reasonable. It's when you go further that problems creep
in. For instance, what would that fleet do after it takes HOL? There's
really only one possibility - it goes back into the North Sea.
- time goes by as I look at the board----
What we could do is have me support BEL to BUR this turn. That'll go as
Paris has to support Brest. That puts you in BUR, and HOL could move to
BEL next turn.
Or I could just leave you with HOL and take Norway. Although I
suspect that I'll have to send the army that's about to take STP, south.
Think these things over. I have to get outta here right now. One
question that I haven't addressed is what would you do with a build?
Your four fleets don't have a lot of room to operate anyway. Where would
another fleet go? Or if you built an army how would it get convoyed?
By a fleet in NTH? There we go again. One of my fleets could become
available. But you've seen what I think of having your fleet in NTH, I
imagine that you feel the same way.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Don't you just hate it. Italy puts a major stab on Austria, and instead
of fighting back Austria turns entirely toward you. This is how games
are won, and I hate it. If it were me, I'd attack you one turn, then
turn around and attack Italy the following turn. (But it's not me)
Well at least we should be down to 6 after the next turn. After that
everything is up for grabs. You and Italy will be right up against each
other, and there is some bad blood between you. Russia will be down to
two. Who knows what's going to happen in the west. England's move to
the NTH has returned to bite him in the ass. (I told him that if he
moved there I'd have to cover my ass - that's what I did.) Worse is
that he's still there. With the possibility to support an attack on
HOL. It's really stifling our attack on France.
What a mess. I love it.
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>I'll give you one thing, you're a tough nut to crack.
The Dauphin and I both thank you for your compliment
It is something we could be proud of if we were not
fighting for our lives.
Am I to read into this that you are still planning on
continuing the attack? Is there no way for you and I to
start over? With the east getting itself resolved, would
it not be better to eliminate England from out backs. If
Turkey/Italy start to press you, do you want your
backside exposed to England. Any new unit he builds are
near it. My new units would be at your flank. But they
would be concerned with the Italian units on my doorstep.
England never would have that problem of units on his
doorstep (like you and I would), unless those units were
yours and mine.
>Sorry I couldn't tell you that I was moving out. The
>reasoning is obvious though.
Surely, you did not want me to spill my guts to the
English. I understand. I am not complaining that you
did not tell me. On the contrary, I thank you for the
move no matter if you told me or not.
I did notice your movements near St. Petes. Were those
based on my messages or had you decided that earlier?
>You're quite right in pointing out that MAO didn't
>support NTH into ENG.
I thought that you would have insisted on Bel -> Pic and
Nth -> Bel. The army in Belgium is also a long term
threat to you. I would have thought that England would
have wanted it in France, not hanging out in the fringe.
so his movements surprised me.
>More important is that there is an English fleet in the
>North Sea on a fall turn. That's not going over well.
You can still cover your butt and take St. Petes. You
can always also support me to Belgium! :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
I know that you will not receive this for some time. But
you must know that there is great joy in France. If
Germany had ordered Bur to Par, I would have lost Paris
and Brest this year. We have very very happy that he did
not. But you must also know that we find it amusing that
Germany did finally let you down, on a critical turn, as
we predicted. :-)
You are almost at the point where you must start over
with your attack on France. Your window of opportunity
for shifting gears towards Germany is closing rapidly. I
recommend that you consider that shift in gears now. You
can always work with Italy or Turkey later to take out
France. The time is no longer right for attempting it
now. We stand ready to join in with whomever first takes
action (England or Germany) against the other.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Germany to France
> I did notice your movements near St. Petes. Were those
> based on my messages or had you decided that earlier?
>
I phased in my orders for the spring right after the last fall moves
processed. I never changed them, although I considered it when Austria
disbanded VIE.
So great minds must think alike.
I think we should talk a little more seriously. Although I doubt that I
can agree to support you to Belgium. The simple truth is that I'm not
in position to take on England.
Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
Thanks for the note.
>I think we should talk a little more seriously.
I am always here to talk, seriously or not. Although I
do wish to seriously talk about the future.
>Although I doubt that I can agree to support you to
>Belgium. The simple truth is that I'm not
>in position to take on England.
Is the unlikeliness for your support to Beglium because
of other tactical needs or because you are not ready to
support me against England? It would help me formulate
our discussions to know which is the issue.
None of us, Germany, England, or France is well
positioned to take on the other. Certainly England has
some position against me. But that is likely to degrade
this year as I may take both MAO and Picardy back. He
has some position against you as well, but you can cover
it. You and I are about neutral against each other.
Taking a center from him would certainly hurt his
positions, hence help us. You will also get a build,
another fleet perhaps?
The longer we wait, the harder it gets. Also the less
time we will have (i.e. Turkey and Italy will clean up
the south).
France is not greedy. We are not seeking to be even with
you in Supply Centers. An even distribution of the
current English holdings would be plenty. We are fully
prepared to establish reasonable demilitarization of any
future borders with you and form a joint effort south and
east. England is too far away and out of position to
eventually help you with Italy. I have access. You know
my arguments about the locations of his new builds and
your exposure. I will beat those points to death.
I think that there are many advantages for us both to
work together. Also we have no serious history of bad
blood between us, that we must overcome.
Please give it some thought. Even if you are not ready
to take the plunge, at least talk hypothetically about
it, so we can flesh out the issues and potential
problems. Who knows what may come of it?
-- Prince Boar
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> That's good news. Hopefully not to BOH either.
>
Nope. Either Piemont or Vienna or, I suppose, Venice. Do you have a
preference?
> Can I also count on you NOT supporting France to MUN this turn?
Asked and rejected already.
> I'm assuming that you guys will eliminate Austria this turn.
>
That's the hope. Neither Turkey or myself want to give the other guy the
extra build but I'm sure we'll work something out.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> > I know why England moved to the North Sea. No explanation
> necessary.
>
> What did he tell you? He told me that he needed to protect BEL.
> Unfortunately, it makes a nice jumping off point to attack DEN or HOL
> also.
>
There was a possibility that Russia would actually get a build last fall and
that he needed to defend Norway in case of a new unit in STP.
He actually said he needed to defend Belgium? That sounds like a real
bonehead thing to say to an ally.
Roberto
Message from Observer to Observer
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., "Doug Massey" <masseyd@b...> wrote:
> --- In vgfp_titleist@y..., dan@i... wrote:
> > Ah, based on this page
> >
> > http://www.bucknell.edu/directories/ph.asp?q1=department-
> > 'Mathematics'&h2=Mathematics
> >
> > I believe you're right with Allen Schweinsberg. I'm not sure
that
> > this Allen is our Allen (Math teacher at Bucknell University) -
but
> > how many Allen Schweinsbergs can there be? - , but there is also
> > listed in the Math department, a Joanne Mayer Schweinsberg.
> >
> > So I think we can safely say that England / Ivy Wingo is Allen
> > Schweinsberg.
>
> Now that's some good detective work! :-)
>
> Doug
I actually found just the same thing as Dan and was 99.9% sure
that was our Allen Schweinsberg, our Joanne Mayer Schweinsberg,
our Ivy Wingo, and thus our England. I did ***NOT*** state this
directly because I worried about what Doug might say about
breaking the anonymity of the game so conclusively.
If we wanted to go on, I'm pretty damned sure I know who France
is too. And this latest little "ditty" about getting lost in
time locks it up for me.
Think we can get them all before the game ends???
Jim-Bob
Message from Observer to Observer
The following vgfp_titleist poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Who do you think is Ivy Wingo??
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Allen Schweinsberg, 3 votes, 50.00%
- Eric Hunter, 2 votes, 33.33%
- Jeff Stephens, 1 votes, 16.67%
- Ken Lofgren, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Randy Hudson, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Rich Olver, 0 votes, 0.00%
- Roger Yonkoski, 0 votes, 0.00%
INDIVIDUAL VOTES
- Allen Schweinsberg
- burgess@w...
- kavcioglu@y...
- greg@s...
- Eric Hunter
- sbyt@y...
- harmanjd@k...
- Jeff Stephens
- cmann@s...
- Ken Lofgren
- Randy Hudson
- Rich Olver
- Roger Yonkoski
For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist
For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
Message from Observer to Observer
Maybe if we can get all the countries to broadcast obscure clues
about their personal lives we can nail them all ;-)
dan.
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., burgess@w... wrote:
> --- In vgfp_titleist@y..., "Doug Massey" <masseyd@b...> wrote:
> > --- In vgfp_titleist@y..., dan@i... wrote:
> > > Ah, based on this page
> > >
> > > http://www.bucknell.edu/directories/ph.asp?q1=department-
> > > 'Mathematics'&h2=Mathematics
> > >
> > > I believe you're right with Allen Schweinsberg. I'm not sure
> that
> > > this Allen is our Allen (Math teacher at Bucknell University) -
> but
> > > how many Allen Schweinsbergs can there be? - , but there is
also
> > > listed in the Math department, a Joanne Mayer Schweinsberg.
> > >
> > > So I think we can safely say that England / Ivy Wingo is Allen
> > > Schweinsberg.
> >
> > Now that's some good detective work! :-)
> >
> > Doug
>
> I actually found just the same thing as Dan and was 99.9% sure
> that was our Allen Schweinsberg, our Joanne Mayer Schweinsberg,
> our Ivy Wingo, and thus our England. I did ***NOT*** state this
> directly because I worried about what Doug might say about
> breaking the anonymity of the game so conclusively.
>
> If we wanted to go on, I'm pretty damned sure I know who France
> is too. And this latest little "ditty" about getting lost in
> time locks it up for me.
>
> Think we can get them all before the game ends???
>
> Jim-Bob
Message from Observer to Observer
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., vgfp_titleist@y... wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> vgfp_titleist group:
>
> Okay, I think it's pretty clear that
> Austria is not long for this world.
> Care to guess who he is? If enough of
> you vote, I'll reveal his identity after
> he's eliminated. ;-)
>
> o Allen Schweinsberg
> o Eric Hunter
> o Jeff Stephens
> o Ken Lofgren
> o Randy Hudson
> o Rich Olver
> o Roger Yonkoski
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist/polls
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
There really isn't much of a clue anywhere as to who Austria
is (unless I missed something), but sure I guessed....
I still think Russia might be eliminated first. Austria may
intend to try to "hang around as some kind of puppet" and
try to salvage some prestige and NOT be knocked out first.
But we shall see.....
Jim-Bob
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
Well, that could have gone better, but it could have been worse. I've written
to Italy requesting support for Ser-Bud. If he agrees, then I'd say Bla S
Sev-Rum, Ukr-Sev, War Hold, StP Hold are your best bet. That way you're
guaranteed to end the year at 3, since Germany will be unable to take more
than one center in the north.
My guess is StP, in which case you could either disband and rebuild A Mos, or
keep the fleet around to hassle Germany. I've written to England to suggest
he turn anti-German now and make arrangements with you to combine E/R efforts.
But he's away for a while, so who knows if we'll have time to put such a thing
together. Anyway, if England bites, then the fleet could be very useful. Or,
an army would put lots of heat on Germany; either way has benefits.
I haven't heard back from Roberto yet, but it's clear that he is in position
to simply take Bud for himself. I've argued to him that it is better for
stability if Austrian centers are split evenly between I/T/R. Let's hope he
buys it. If he grabs Bud for himself, then I could end up hostile with Italy
all over again.
Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? I look forward to your reply.
Ali
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
>that could have gone better, but it could have been worse.
Yes, it's ironic that Austria actually helped me by
bouncing War-Mos.
>I've written to Italy requesting support for Ser-Bud.
If he doesn't do it, it means he plans to attack
you. I suspect that he will order the support, though.
I'll write to him and endorse the idea, as well.
>I'd say Bla S Sev-Rum, Ukr-Sev, War Hold, StP Hold
That's what I was thinking, or perhaps War-Lvn,
Stp-Lvn.
>Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
I think you've covered everything. I'll try to
get a letter out to Roberto today, and will let you
know what he says.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
> That's what I was thinking, or perhaps War-Lvn,
> Stp-Lvn.
That sounds risky, since GOB S Lvn-StP, Sil-War would give Germany Warsaw.
Ali
Message from Master to all
Extension due to player absence, for one additional day.
Doug
Message from Germany to Italy
> There was a possibility that Russia would actually get a build
> last fall and that he needed to defend Norway in case of a new
> unit in STP.
Actually Ivy used this excuse also. Mainly because I was pointing out
the danger from Russia. I was never really worried about that though,
as my prime objective was to make sure that Russia didn't put an army in
STP. One of my successes.
Piedmont would be an interesting place to go. But I don't know if you'd
support France or attack him.
It's getting close to the time that you have to look seriously at being
in a war with Turkey again. (I think) With Austris gone and Russia
getting very weak, Turkey's avenues of expansion are limited to coming
at me or you. You'll be a lot closer. Although it's possible that he
swing around you and your centers in Austria, it's highly unlikely.
Therefore I think that you and I will be battling to contain Turkey
in the not too distant future. We both know how difficult it is to
return the genie to the bottle once he's out.
Perhaps it's time to also talk about what else we would like to
happen in the West at the same time. Keep this to yourself, but what
about a stab of England, draw France North, followed by a stab of France
from the south? You're the stab king so far, care to go for three?
(You wouldn't actually be stabbing England)
Fredd
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto, My Friend,
Well, that was interesting... 8-) Would you like
me to lobby Prince Boar to support WMed-MAO? It would
make him feel safer, (maybe), and give you access to
the Atlantic, so it strikes me as a good thing for both
of you. Do you plan to take Bud for yourself, or
support Ali in? Either way, I hope you will tell him
that you will, so that he'll move Sev-Rum, to let me
take Sev. Please let me know what you're thinking.
Nick.
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I seek your professional opinion. I am trying to decide where to attack
the MAO from. I know that you desire my attack from Spain, and that
would begin the process of stablizing our region. My quandy is that I
fear that England and Germany are still allied. If they do retake
Burgundy, it would be stronger to have my fleet in Spain rather than
Portugal. I would have the flexibility of acting on Marseilles from
Spain with the fleet or Gascony with the retreating army.
Since your support for my move to MAO is important, I want to know what
you think about the choice.
So how are things going in the east. I imagine that Turkey wants
Budapest. He is probably reminding you of his support for Tieste last
fall. Are you planning on allowing him Budapest? I am sure that you
are tempted by two builds. But that also makes you a target, being so
much larger than your neighbors. Choose carefully.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Are you planning a bounce in Smyrna? That would allow you to build a
fleet there? If Italy gets a build, he is surely to make it a fleet.
Can you allow yourself to be down 1 fleet to his 4 fleets?
I was looking to try and find a way for you to only move from Sevastopol
only if you take Budapest. But I think that there is no way to
accomplish it.
You may wish to remind Italy that he does not want to be the largest
fish in the fishbowl. It would make his neighbors jealous. :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
>You know my arguments about the locations
>of his new builds and your exposure. I will
>beat those points to death.
I meant to write that I would NOT beat
those points to death.
Sorry, I was not trying to be obnoxious.
Did you have any comments on the rest of
that message?
-- Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
> Did you have any comments on the rest of
> that message?
sorry for not responding. It's been a glorious weekend here. With Ivy
gone, I've been enjoying a little down time.
It's Sunday. I'll have something to say this evening.
Fredd
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
You might want to discuss supporting WMed-MAO with
the Dauphin and Roberto. It's might allow you to
avoid the probable Italian attack on France next year.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy, Ivy, Ivy, (It had to be done.8-)
>Movement results for Spring of 1904. (titleist.013)
>
>England: Army Belgium SUPPORT Fleet English Channel -> Picardy.
>England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean.
>England: Fleet English Channel -> Picardy.
>England: Fleet North Sea -> English Channel. (*bounce*)
>England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean HOLD.
Interesting. At first glance, your moves look as
though you remain committed to the EG alliance, but I
find Bel S Eng-Pic, Nth-Eng, MAO HOLD intriguing, since
it leaves you positioned to stab Germany this Fall.
>France: Army Gascony -> Burgundy.
>France: Army Picardy SUPPORT German Army Burgundy -> Belgium. (*void,
>dislodged*)
>France: Fleet Portugal -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean. (*bounce*)
>France: Fleet Brest -> English Channel. (*bounce*)
>France: Fleet Marseilles -> Spain (south coast).
>
>Germany: Army Ruhr -> Kiel.
>Germany: Army Bohemia -> Silesia.
>Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Army Prussia -> Livonia.
>Germany: Fleet Livonia -> Baltic Sea.
>Germany: Army Burgundy -> Ruhr.
>Germany: Army Prussia -> Livonia.
I have to admit that I didn't expect this, though
now that I see it, it is rather obvious. I expected
Fredd to pull back in the East, and maintain pressure
on France, but doing so would have left him unable to
recapture Hol/Den had you stabbed, while this way, FG
is a real possibility, even though you didn't.
>Russia: Fleet StP/SC CONVOY English Army Belgium -> Berlin.
Can't blame me for trying. 8-) Now, the question
is, what do you and Fredd do at this point? Obviously,
you can protest your innocence, and hope that Germany
will continue with you, but his retreat will cost you
at least a year, and perhaps more, since France could
dislodge your Fleet in MAO this Fall.
Will Germany look at your moves, and decide that
he misjudged you, and realign himself with you, or
will he look at the map, and see that unless he covers
Den and Hol, you could STILL stab for two? If he covers,
then what? Will it occur to him that he's now in a
position to build a Fleet and attack you with French
help? I don't envy you your position, but I did try
to warn you of the dangers you faced. If you'd care to
discuss the future, I'm at your service.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
Enjoy your time off. So you did not get such a nice breather when I was
gone? :-)
I did want to take advantage of Ivy's absence to try and sway you to my
side, but I guess it is only fair that I must wait until he is around to
balance my arguments.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Did Italy have any say in your request that I ask him to take the MAO?
I hesitate to ask him to go there. It could be a big pain in my side if
I manage to improve my situation.
How do you know for certain that he will attack me next year? He may be
in a war with Turkey as well? What have you heard that gives you
confidence in your prediction?
--Xavier
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>Did Italy have any say in your request that I ask him to take the MAO?
No, he has not written me since moves came through.
>I hesitate to ask him to go there. It could be a big pain in my side if I
>manage to improve my situation.
Yes, I can't say for sure how he would respond, but
if you supported me into MAO, my inclination would be to
go after England, and continue to work with you.
>How do you know that he will attack me next year?
I don't. If he takes Bud, he's likely to attack
Turkey. If he supports Ser-Bud, and Turkey builds
another Army, however, you're Italy's most likely
next target. Supporting WMed-MAO might change that.
(Of course, it could also make it more likely.)
>What have you heard that gives you
>confidence in your prediction?
When I encouraged Roberto to support you in
Iberia, and move Ven-Tyl, he indicated that he
planned to support you this year. This suggests that
he intends to reconsider his options, once Austria
is eliminated. Turkey's inability to take Bud this
Fall without Italian support makes Italy vs. Turkey
more likely, but trying to cross the stalemate line
in 1905 would probably be the better strategic move
for Italy.
It's clearly a judgement call for you and the
Dauphin, and should be based on your view of the
relationship between EG, but I thought I would
mention the possibility to you. I haven't heard
back from Ivy, yet, and haven't written Germany, so
I have no advice for you on that front. Once I hear
from England, I'll write Fredd, and contact you, again.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to France
I thought that I would take this slow down in the game to go back and
explain my thoughts for my orders for the last season.
My plan was:
F Bre -> MAO s by Por (and Italian WES)
F Mar -> Spa
A Pic -> Bre
A Gas -> Bur
I choose these orders because I was expecting:
Bel -> Pic s by Bur
F Nth -> Bel
F Eng -> Bre (to break it's support)
F MAO s F Eng -> Bre (why not?)
F NAO s F MAO
I was hoping to take MAO and bounce all the other armies. If Burgundy
took Picardy, I would have retreated to Paris. I was not expecting Eng
-> Pic by England.
I also considered Pic -> Par, Gas -> Par. I choose the above because I
did not want England to walk into Brest and also, if I lost Picardy it
could have no where to retreat to.
But Italy would not cooperate and make the desired support. He stated
that he did not want England to retreat to NAf. It is understandable,
but I was disappointed. I also figured that he did not want to help me
too much, as he is trying to keep friendly with Germany and England.
Again, this is understandable, but something that I did not like. :-)
So given that Italy would only order WES s Mar -> Spa (even that was
unknown as I could not talk to him again and the orders were due), I
choose different orders. They were:
Mar -> Spa (to cover it and hopefully improve my position for the fall
against MAO)
Por -> MAO (to break its support for Eng -> Bre)
Bre -> Eng (to break its support for Bel -> Pic)
Gas -> Bur (to break its support for Bel -> Pic)
Pic s Bur -> Bel (what the heck, it was better than holding. I made a
small statement)
I was purposely leaving Mar and Par open for Germany. I was willing to
let him have one rather than England take one of my centers. I have
been getting along reasonably well with Germany and have figured out how
to interact with him. My biggest hope was to not have Germany in Paris
just yet as I wanted to not have him help England to Brest.
I did consider Pic -> Bur as I really did not want Gas to go to Bur if
Bur went to Par. I wanted to be near Brest. I decided against it
because I figured that being in Bur put some pressure on Munich, in case
I needed it.
As I mentioned in private press to others, I really could have been
burnt if Germany had ordered Bur to Par. I am very lucky and glad that
he did not. In that case, my preferred orders above would have been
better as it would have saved the army. But I would have still been in
bad shape.
That's enough for now.
Roger
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Uh-oh! Did you lose your German friend? Looks from here like he expected
>you to stab him.
What a fine kettle of fish we have here, Ollie!
Germany was trying to have his cake and eat it too. He told me in advance
that he would have to defend against a possible stab, even though he
believed that I was not going to stab. He insisted that we would continue
to attack France once he was confident he was secure. He really wanted to
have it both ways: retain my trust in him, while preparing for a possible
stab himself. I was not able to persuade him to continue the assault on
France without making those "defensive" moves. I ha hoped for something
better, but it was not to be.
If this were a no press game, I would expect Germany to switch sides now
and join forces with France. I am not sure what he will actually do under
the influence of diplomacy from all around the world.
Certainly, I do not like my position very much right now, and if I were you
I wouldn't like the Italian position much either. You were soon going to
be able to pick up Spain and Marseilles. Now, if Germany switches sides,
that looks more distant, and Turkey looms larger every moment.
So here is what I want you to do. Think very hard about what is best for
Italy and I will do my best to cooperate. I am assuming that the choices
are between (1) trying to persuade Germany to participate in a 3-way attack
on France. That still could proceed fairly quickly if Germany were with
us. Or (2) get France to join us in attacking Germany. What makes me most
nervous in all of this is that Turkey is not going to be idle. I guess
there is a third possibility. You may end up, willingly or otherwise, in
a war with Turkey. In that case I could be caught between France and
Germany. That's the way it goes sometimes.
This is my first note after getting back. Think hard about your situation
and get back to me as soon as possible.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
Just got back, and I have to be brief. I should have more time tomorrow.
Most of this will be off-the-cuff reactions to your notes.
>OK Ivy, I am dying to know. What was the set of orders
>that would have guaranteed you a build. I have not found
>them. But now that it does not matter, could you show
>them to me?
I don't have time to try to reconstruct, but I think it involved Bel->Pic
with the help of Germany, so that I could hold the Channel and MAO. In the
fall I would have then gotten Brest using cuts of support from MAO and
Burgundy.
>PS: You are actually the master diplomat, not me. I
>could not convince Italy to do what I wanted,
I was almost certain that I had this minor victory.
>just as you had trouble with Germany.
Just as I was almost certain that I had this major diplomatic loss.
The net result favors you and your diplomacy greatly.
> But you must know that there is great joy in France.
I can hear the shouting.
> we find it amusing that
>Germany did finally let you down, on a critical turn, as
>we predicted. :-)
Sooner or later in an alliance, someone lets his partner down. The trick
is ... well, you know what the trick is.
>Your window of opportunity
>for shifting gears towards Germany is closing rapidly.
I will consider it. First, I need some sleep.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Freddy,
What a fine kettle of fish we have here, Ollie!
> Boy that move to the North Sea really has turned out to have hurt us
>both quite a bit.
But at least you kept your word. That was very important to you.
>Plus I have to consider a supported attack on HOL and MUN. Add in that
>there's no way that you can take Brest now. Yuck.
There is no hesitation in my reaction. I am not going to turn against you.
I will not attack Holland and I will not attack Denmark. Never, never
intended to do anything like that. I am in this to the end. There is no
other course of action that makes sense to me in the long run.
>What we could do is have me support BEL to BUR this turn. That'll go as
>Paris has to support Brest. That puts you in BUR, and HOL could move to
>BEL next turn.
It is a little premature to know what to do. If for some reason you don't
trust me (my reassuring words last time didn't have much effect) then you
will want Ruhr to influence Holland. Or you may want Ruhr to affect
Munich. We need some intelligence. I don't think I will get anything out
of France, but Italy has always been very forthcoming with me. There is a
good chance I will get his actual moves (again), provided I take the right
approach.
> Or I could just leave you with HOL and take Norway. Although I
>suspect that I'll have to send the army that's about to take STP, south.
No matter what yur western plans, you have to be concerned about the vast
armies that Turkey is raising.
Most of the world may assume that you are about to join with France in an
attack on me. Surely you will consider it. Be a little careful. France
and Italy are not tight at all, and France now knows it. Italy refused to
support a French attack in MAO last turn. Italy wants Spain and Marseilles
and a dead France to prepare for his upcoming war against Turkey. It is
not France and Italy who are together, but France and Turkey are chummy.
Give a lot of thought to continuing an FIE assault on France. Talk Italy
into Tyrolia->Piedmont, for example. If Italy cannot be convinced that he
should stay the course (against France), then he will unite with France and
go after Munich while trying to get you and me to squabble.
Italy is key here. He knows he cannot be anti England. He has to choose
between hitting you with French help or hitting France with our help.
I just got home. More tomorrow probably.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
> Most of the world may assume that you are about to join with
> France in an attack on me. Surely you will consider it.
They'd be wrong. The advantages of joining France over you are?.....
But of course I considered it. Which is why I'm not going to do that. I
don't see any advantage. I do see a couple of disadvantages. The main
one being that I'd have to start building fleets. What good are fleets
going to be against Italy or Turkey? Not much. They're be good against
you, and then against France. They'd leave me weaker on the Russian
Steppes
Fredd
Message from France to England
Wingo:
I know that you must have been swamped upon your return
and that you had plenty to deal with. France appreciates
that you would take the time to write us, an enemy, back.
We hope that you have recovered and slept enough.
We still do hope to continue the discussion on those
orders which would have guaranteed Brest. If we could
have had Italy support action into the MAO, I do not
think that there was a guaranteed set. Even without that
support, I think that France could have guessed correctly
no matter what you ordered. I am not saying that we
would have, just that we could have.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I have ordered Spa to MAO as my default orders. I can
change them if our discussion warrants it. But for now,
I think this choice reasonable.
--Prince Boar
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Well, the deadline is tomorrow. What are your thoughts? Let's get a plan
together.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> Well, the deadline is tomorrow. What are your thoughts?
> Let's get a plan together.
>
I came to work today planning on hammering out a plan but found the judge
unresponsive. At home now without time to adequately write what I need to.
I've asked Doug for a Wednesday deadline so we hopefully won't be pressured
tomorrow but I'll get something out to you first thing tomorrow morning.
Roberto
Message from England to France
>I know that you must have been swamped upon your return
>and that you had plenty to deal with.
Yes, and now a day of USIN blackout when I had hoped to be communicating.
Now that your e-mail has gotten through I hope USIN will see fit to grind
out some more. I don't know when you wrote the note that I got (it was
delivered 7:16pm eastern), but I believe that I still haven't received
confirmation from all that I wrote early this morning.
>We still do hope to continue the discussion on those
>orders which would have guaranteed Brest. If we could
>have had Italy support action into the MAO, I do not
>think that there was a guaranteed set.
OK. I looked at the board again, and I concede that Brest was less certain
than I thought. I would have needed Bel->Pic to have succeeded with the
support of Eng & Bur. I considered it highly unlikely that you would have
stopped that, but in fact you did hit both Eng & Bur with your moves! Had
that succeded, then Eng s Pic->Brest does the job with appropriate cuts
from MAO & Burgundy. At least I knew that MAO was safe.
Ivy
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Here is how I might approach this as England.
We got home yesterday evening. I put your analysis under my pillow and
slept on it. It was frustrating not to be able to communicate effectively
today, but I think that USIN is back in order.
Now you see what I meant when I said that I was having difficulty with
Germany. His moves were expected, although I held out hope for something
better. Clearly, he is giving himself some options, not all of which are
favorable to me.
In the meantime, you have a wonderful position. The only way to mess it up
would be to get a couple of units ahead of everyone else and provoke a
"stop Turkey" alliance.
>I hope you don't mind my long-winded ramble. I enjoy the discussion, and I
>find that the process of saying it all out loud can sometimes be quite
>instructive.
No, I don't mind it. I know you are feeling pretty good right now. And I
did find it helpful.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Ivy, Ivy, Ivy, (It had to be done.8-)
What a fine kettle of fish we have here, Ollie!
>Now, the question
>is, what do you and Fredd do at this point?
I don't know. Germany's moves were expected, but I held out hope for
something better. Communications today have been disrupted by good old
USIN. I will have to do some quick thinking tomorrow.
>Obviously, you can protest your innocence,
For I AM innocent. That's my style. Remember that if we get in a
non-anonymous game some day.
> Will Germany look at your moves, and decide that
>he misjudged you, and realign himself with you,
Perhaps he will. The alternative is to build fleets and attack me, fleets
that will be useless against Turkey. Or he can let France build the fleets
and then be defenseless against France.
>will he look at the map, and see that unless he covers
>Den and Hol, you could STILL stab for two?
He will do some covering no matter what, of course.
Sigh.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Have you come up with a suggested plan of action yet?
What I see is this.
You're going to get ejected from the MAO. (Unless Italy supports you to
Spain) Why would he do that? If he did that, you'd be stronger with
France weaker. Barring a stab I'll build one. (an army BTW) It could be
that Italy would like to see a stronger England to counter me. At
least that's the tack that I'd use to encourage him to help you.
You also could be pushed out of PIC.
BUR-PIC
BRE s BUR-PIC
PAR s BRE
Or France could attack MUN.
I'm willing to trust you a little. I can support BEL-BUR if you want.
That will leave me open to a supported attack on HOL. You've said that
you're not going to attack there, and I'm going to believe you. (I
reserve the right to move KIE-HOL anyway. I also reserve the right NOT
to move KIE-HOL.
Certainly I'll cover MUN. Whether with or without support.
I return I'd like you to get out of the North Sea. Belgium would be a
good place to go. Or the Channel.
Or I'll listen to any other thoughts or ideas that you might have.
Fredd
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> In the meantime, you have a wonderful position. The only way to mess it
up
> would be to get a couple of units ahead of everyone else and provoke a
> "stop Turkey" alliance.
Not much fear of that. Italy has not yet replied yea or nay to my request
for Bud. If he does give it, then I fully intend to vacate Sev. If not,
then I still might, depending on your viewpoint.
> No, I don't mind it. I know you are feeling pretty good right now. And I
> did find it helpful.
I really didn't mean to come off that way. I began my reply several times,
trying to write an analysis from an "objective" point of view. After
rewriting it 3 or 4 times, I found that I could not help but work some
Turkish angle into it somehow. Hey, old habits die hard. Anyway, in the
end I tried approaching it from just an English perspective, and I found my
train of thought came much more naturally.
The reason my decision on Sev depends on your input is this. Italy may or
may not agree to support me to Bud. If he does not, then I suspect that IT
conflict may come sooner rather than later. If that happens to coincide
with the introduction of EG conflict, then I think we would both clearly be
better off if we can use Russia to our advantage. Or, Italy may promise the
support, but then take Bud for himself, and I must be prepared for that
eventuality.
But mostly, I need to decide what to do if Italy simply refuses, urging me
instead to just hold onto Sev. In that case, it might still be wisest to
vacate Sev to Russia, even if it means not having a build. It all depends
on questions I can't answer: namely, what would happen in France then, and
what will happen between E/G. So, any advice you could give regarding these
considerations would be most greatly appreciated.
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali
Message from Germany to France
PB:
I'm going to do a lot of thinking out loud here, so please bear
with me.
Naturally I'm considering switching alliances (if you'll have me ;-)
Before doing that though I want to weight the pros and cons.
If I switched this turn we could:
force England from MAO.
take Belgium. (Only because he wouldn't know it's coming and won't be
supporting it)
Those are both advantages for you. The advantage for me would be...
Well I wouldn't expect you to hand BEL over to me anytime soon....
I could be in NWY in the spring. Thereby giving myself another build...
But I'd have to build another fleet, fairly soon.
I'd also be diverted from pursuing a ground war in Russia.
It's not Russia that I'm worried about. It's Turkey and Italy.
If I switch alliances would they be more or less inclined to fight
amoungst themselves?
There's a topic of discussion. Realistically, strategically having you
or Ivy as a partner doesn't matter much. I currently have no designs on
your centers. I suppose that I'm want one of IVY's. And I'd want to be
unthreatened in the North Sea.
The $64,000 question is what would Italy and Turkey do if I switched
sides?
Fredd
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
I have a question for you. I'm a little too close to the action.
I think that I can't see the forest through the trees.
If you were me, who would you ally with, France or England? I'm
only thinking in a strategic sense. Discount personalities.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
Roberto:
I have a question for you. I'm a little too close to the action.
I think that I can't see the forest through the trees.
If you were me, who would you ally with, France or England? I'm
only thinking in a strategic sense. Discount personalities.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I thought that you should be aware of this. I just sent a message to
Italy and Turkey individually. I asked each of them if I should ally
with you or France. Strickly based on strategy. I'd be interested in
knowing how fast one of them spills the beans to you that "I'm looking
at switching alliances."
The reality is that I intend to stick with you. I, for one, see no
strategic advantage in stabbing you. However, I'd really like to see
Italy and Turkey fighting. (and I suspect that would benefit you also)
If they think that the EG juggernaut rolls on, then they could stay
together. If they think that we're breaking up, maybe we'll see some
sparks fly.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Master
Germany 1903 EOY statement
There wasn't a lot happening this year for me.
I really didn't want to build (this year)
If I did then I would have been the big guy on the block. I'd rather
keep a low profile for awhile longer.
In the spring Italy was still in Tyrolia, so I was concerned about that
and supported Munich. I also had to support England in BEL from French
attack. I also began a slow march on STP. It's possible I guess that I
could make bolder moves, but then I might get it.
In the fall, I managed to move into BUR. This is good and bad. I
actually have no intention of proceeding further into France. My mission
is to help England in. Our original deal is that he gets all of
France. I still have no problem with that.
What I did have a problem with is his move to the North Sea. I have two
open centers bordering NTH. HOL and DEN. I now have to cover those
centers. This means that I won't be able to help England in France. So
he won't be making any gains there.
I have seen moves like England's North Sea move many, many times. A
move like that is always accompanied with a lot of sincere press saying
how his real intention is something else, then on the next move we see
the stab. I will not be leaving my centers unguarded. This will slow
my advance into Russia. I believe that was England's real intention. To
slow me down, but not to stab me. It works, but it'll slow him down
also.
I also gave Austria a support move. He didn't take advantage of
it. That was a waste on my part. On the othe hand I would have just
held in BOH anyway.
Fredd
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >Obviously, you can protest your innocence,
>
>For I AM innocent. That's my style. Remember that if we get in a
>non-anonymous game some day.
I appreciate your feelings, but there are times
when a stab is the right thing to do, and it seems
to me that this Spring was the right time for you to
stab Germany.
> > Will Germany look at your moves, and decide that
> >he misjudged you, and realign himself with you,
>
>Perhaps he will. The alternative is to build fleets and attack me, fleets
>that will be useless against Turkey.
Were I to lay odds, I'd say Turkey is likely to
be busy defending against Italy next year, and in no
position to attack Germany, so Fredd could well have
a free hand against you.
>Or he can let France build the fleets and then be defenseless against
>France.
Of course, if Italy doesn't attack France, he'll
attack France.
> >will he look at the map, and see that unless he covers
> >Den and Hol, you could STILL stab for two?
>
>He will do some covering no matter what, of course.
I expect you're right, and then you face the
problem of the defense against the stab becoming the
groundwork for a stab. It seems to me that you HAVE
to reevaluate your game-plan, at this point, if you
want to survive. (I ought to know, I've done enough
of that, so far. ;-)
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I guess that the Judge is working again. Have you had a
chance to think over my question for you? (Which, Spa or
Por, is better to take MAO?) In a subsequent letter I
said that I have already ordered Spa to MAO. I
appreciate that you agreed to support it, I hope that you
still are. I am counting on it.
Do you think that the Austrian will be eliminated this
turn? It looks like Budapest should fall, to you or
Turkey. Sevastopol should be either Turkish or Russia.
Therefore the Austrian fleet should disappear. Unless of
course Turkey supports Budapest or some mixup happens
near Sevastopol. About the worst thing that could happen
is that Austria could have a surviving center and get his
fleet into the Ionian.
Hmm, I guess there are worst things for you. Turkey
could support Austria to Greece as well. My advice is
that you plan it safe.
You will also notice that I am not requesting support for
a move to Munich. I know that you would not want to do
that. I also am choosing to be cautious.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
As you ponder pulling back from your attack on France, I
suggest MAO -> Eng, NAO -> NwS, Pic -> Bel, Bel ->?
or Pic -> Eng, MAO -> NAO, NAO -> Iri, Bel hold?
As I stated, I am willing to join in with whomever acts
first, you or Germany. Germany is already in the lead
due to his pull out of France.
How are things going between you and Germany? Did you
have a few words with him? :-)
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
Thanks for the note. I will try to be objective, but I
of course want you to side with me rather than against
me. (In reality I will side with whomever acts first,
you or England. I cannot be choosy. But I do prefer
that it be you.)
So let me be honest about my goal and state that I will
try to argue why Italy and Turkey might be more likely to
fight, if you side with me.
If you and England continue your attack on me, Italy will
eventually feel secure enough to join in the attack. He
will send over a couple of more fleets and take some of
my centers for himself. This means that he can delay his
battle with Turkey for a while. Hence, they will
continue to cooperate. Also, everyone is already aware
of and concerned about the EG alliance. If you continue
it that will force IT to stick together solidly. If EG
cracks, then IT will be looking more locally and thinking
about dominating their side of the board.
Turkey will therefore be more wary of Italy if he has not
obvious outlet for his forces (France). This will cause
friction between them. He will therefore be more
focussed in the south and not likely to rush armies North
into Russia and the heartland, making you nervous.
Bottom line: Italy will probably build a fleet. If
there is a France under duress, it will head that way,
allowing Turkey to build another army. But if France is
alive enough to make an Italy invasion fruitless, but
that France is embattled with an invasion of England,
Turkey must worry that the Italian fleet will join the
other two and head his way. He will have to build a
fleet. He knows the history of what Roberto has done to
him and Austria. I will certain argue with Turkey to
build that fleet.
As for Belgium and England. Yes, I do want Belgium this
turn. But I expect that it will eventually be yours in
exchange for the British Isles. This is 100% negotiable
and I am open to any reasonable distribution that makes
sense at the time. But it makes more sense now for our
centers to be as separate as possible. I do not want to
have to worry about defending Belgium and you do not want
one of my armies sitting there, to defend it.
As long as we can put a reasonable and minimal defense in
the North together, we will each feel secure. You will
want to prevent my entry into the North Sea, I will want
to defend the Island. This could be accomplish with
something like:
German F Hol hold
German F Den -> Nth
French F Edi -> Nth
French A Lon hold
Your second fleet holding in Holland is there as a future
defense to my trying to sneak a second fleet in place to
grab the North Sea. If you grab the North Sea, I will at
least have the army in place to help with defense. That
seems pretty stable.
If England was your ally, you would always be worried
about that second or third fleet suddenly appearing in
London and/or Edinburgh (during an adjustment) and your
having no time to react to it.
Sorry for the long note. But I had a lot to cover :-)
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
One last thing. You told me something in the beginning
of the game that I have remembered. You said that you
would lie through your teeth just before the big stab,
but would not lie otherwise. I thought that a pretty
good plan.
Is not there a similar statement that one should not
betray an ally unless it is a real stab. For example I
did not support myself to Burgundy in spring 01 and you
told me that you were going for Bur in Fall 01 (to
bounce me). Also, I did not move to the MAO in the fall
of 02. I would have been better off in MAO if England
betrayed me, which he did. But since I was hoping to
ally with England, I did not want even a little betrayal,
that I hoped I could talk my way out of, to be on my
record. It breaks the necessary trust for the little
things (the big stab is always there).
I view Ivy's move to the North Sea as one of those litle
betrayals. Yes he did not take a center, but he acted
without regard to the trust between you. Will he
continue to make those little breaches of trust, that are
not stabs, but continually improve his position relative
to your own?
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
How are things going over there? I have not heard from
you lately.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to England
>Message from Russia to England in 'titleist':
I mis-spoke >
> Of course, if Italy doesn't attack France, he'll attack France.
Too early in the morning.... Obviously, that
should be if Italy doesn't attack Tukey, he'll attack
France.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Master to all
Extension to Wednesday evening, due to judge outage.
Doug
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Not much fear of that. Italy has not yet replied yea or nay to my request
>for Bud.
Has he replied at all?? I need to hear from Italy most of all right now,
and I have not heard a word from him. Is he talking to you?
>If he does give it, then I fully intend to vacate Sev. If not,
>then I still might, depending on your viewpoint.
I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
on his intentions in the west.
>The reason my decision on Sev depends on your input is this. Italy may or
>may not agree to support me to Bud. If he does not, then I suspect that IT
>conflict may come sooner rather than later. If that happens to coincide
>with the introduction of EG conflict, then I think we would both clearly be
>better off if we can use Russia to our advantage. Or, Italy may promise the
>support, but then take Bud for himself, and I must be prepared for that
>eventuality.
Italy has never mislead me, so when he does reply I may have some
information that could help us both.
>But mostly, I need to decide what to do if Italy simply refuses, urging me
>instead to just hold onto Sev. In that case, it might still be wisest to
>vacate Sev to Russia, even if it means not having a build. It all depends
>on questions I can't answer: namely, what would happen in France then, and
>what will happen between E/G. So, any advice you could give regarding these
>considerations would be most greatly appreciated.
Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
any deadline for your decisions?
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> > >Obviously, you can protest your innocence,
> >
> >For I AM innocent. That's my style. Remember that if we get in a
> >non-anonymous game some day.
>
> I appreciate your feelings, but there are times
>when a stab is the right thing to do, and it seems
>to me that this Spring was the right time for you to
>stab Germany.
We all have been successful with our own styles. That's why we are here.
> Were I to lay odds, I'd say Turkey is likely to
>be busy defending against Italy next year, and in no
>position to attack Germany, so Fredd could well have
>a free hand against you.
Turkey is trying to decide whether or not to give you Sevastopol. If he
gets Budapest with Italian help, you will surely get Sevastopol. If Italy
prefers not to grant Budapest to Turkey, then Turkey may, or may not, give
you Sevastopol. Turkey wants my advice.
What is missing in all of this seems to be Italy. I have not heard from
Italy, and I need information from him most of all. Is Italy talking to you?
Your next note:
>Too early in the morning.... Obviously, that
>should be if Italy doesn't attack Tukey, he'll attack
>France.
By noon I bet that you will even be able to spell "Turkey" ! 8-)
Hmmm. Why didn't you include the possibility of Italy attacking Germany?
Anyway, the big question is this: have you heard from Italy?
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to France
>How are things going between you and Germany? Did you
>have a few words with him? :-)
Nah. I am a very even-tempered person (like you apparently). I just
smiled at him and kept talking.
As nearly as I can tell, USIN has delivered some e-mail and has now shut
down again. I am sending this anyway, but I have become very frustrated
with my inability to communicate back and forth with anyone.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>Have you come up with a suggested plan of action yet?
No. I have not heard yet from Italy. Has he written to you?
I don't even know when you will receive this message. It is 9:00 am now,
but I think USIN is once again down. Very frustrating.
> What I see is this.
>You're going to get ejected from the MAO. (Unless Italy supports you to
>Spain) Why would he do that? If he did that, you'd be stronger with
>France weaker.
That's what Italy wanted before the last moves. He wanted France weaker so
he could grab Marseilles and Spain. He may reconsider now that the EG
attack on France has been weakened.
>Or France could attack MUN.
Or Italy could. Or both.
>I'm willing to trust you a little.
A little. 8-)
I think that what you did last turn set us back much further than my move
to the North Sea. But I just shrug my shoulders, smile, and
continue. That's the way that I am. EG still makes the most sense to me,
and I have always profited in the past by sticking to a game plan. We all
have our styles, and we all have been successful with our styles.
> I can support BEL-BUR if you want.
Until I hear from Italy, I am not sure what to do. Bel supp Pic may be the
preferred alternative.
>I return I'd like you to get out of the North Sea. Belgium would be a
>good place to go. Or the Channel.
Belgium would probably bounce, unless Bel->Bur has succeeded. But that
probably means that France will have gotten into Picardy, so Picardy would
retreat to Channel.
Anyway, I do understand the reason behind your request. I will try, once
again, to move Nth south.
Are you aware that Turkey is supposed to give Sevastopol to Russia this
fall? Russia is not dead. Expect Russia to move War->Mos and Ukr->Sev.
This is actually good news for you. It suggests that Turkey will go after
Italy and leave Russia to harass you. Being harassed by Russia is far
better than having TI coming after you in force. I agree that you need
another army. Your southeast by far your most vulnerable spot. There is
some obvious self-serving in this, but I do think it is best that you take
StP with a fleet. Your army will remain one step closer to where it is
going to be sorely needed.
More later. I can communicate up to the last minute today, if only USIN
cooperates. It seems to be down again. If it stays down again for most
of the day, I may have to ask Doug for another one-day extension.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
One more thing. Did you ever get the following message? I received an
e-mail saying that it was undeliverable -- obviously due to USIN problems.
Ivy
***************
Fredd,
>But of course I considered it. Which is why I'm not going to do that. I
>don't see any advantage. I do see a couple of disadvantages. The main
>one being that I'd have to start building fleets. What good are fleets
>going to be against Italy or Turkey? Not much. They're be good against
>you, and then against France. They'd leave me weaker on the Russian
>Steppes
I hadn't even thought of that, but then I have been totally out of it for
several days now.
I wrote Italy. He is still the key. That one army. There is a world of
difference between Tyrolia->Munich and Tyrolia->Piedmont.
Once I here from him I will try to put together some moves and we can
communicate in more detail.
Ivy
Message from Russia to Italy and Turkey
Gentlemen,
Have you come to an agreement regarding Budapest?
Splitting the Austrian Centers seems like the way to go,
but I'd like to confirm that everyone is on the same
page here.
Sincerely,
Nick.
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> How are things going over there? I have not heard from
> you lately.
I've not heard from much of anyone lately. The judge problems aren't helping.
I'm still waiting to hear yes or no from Roberto about Bud. Until I hear
*something* from him, it's hard to say what I should do, specifically about
Sev. Hopefully he'll write soon.
Ali
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I may not be around much tonight, but will check
messages. I should be around this afternoon if you want
to carry on a dialogue, and can arrange to find time
tonight if you find it useful.
If you do not get time for much discussion, please at
least let me know whether you will support Bur to Bel.
If you choose not to, I have other options for A Burgundy
(like just supporting it to hold from Paris).
Thanks.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
>At least I knew that MAO was safe.
The original plan for my defense was to take the MAO.
But Italy would not help me do so. He said that you had
poisoned him and were withholding the antidote if he
supported me thus. A very nice ploy on your part. Was
the poison a bluff? He may never know. He will just
simply avoid English Beer now, like the rest of us.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Let's get a plan together.
>
Well, doesn't look like we're going to get that deadline extension I had
hoped for but we still have plenty of time. Luckily, the position this fall
doesn't have too many options.
I've been thinking about your question of should we let Russia have SEV and
thus keeping our growth on an even platform vs one of us get a 2-for-1 deal.
Honestly, I don't really have an answer. One on hand, I don't see the
reason in delaying the inevitable (that of you taking SEV from Russia down
the road anyway). On the other hand, Germany's pull back from France has
not made Ivy very happy and thus a Russian presence against Germany might
keep the West unsettled for a longer period of time.
I guess what I need to know from you is, how do you forsee the division of
spoils now that the Austrian demise is imminent. Where will our next areas
of growth come from - for the both of us. Your growth potential seems
rather obvious as SEV, WAR, MOS all seem to be reachable goals. If the EG
alliance has indeed hit a snag, centers from Iberia will not be so easy to
come by for me.
All three of EFG have suggested to me that war between IT seems inevitable.
As long as they think that way, I'd like to prove them wrong. I'm just not
quite sure how to go about that just yet.
France has told me his default move is SPA-MAO and has asked for my fleet to
support that move. I consider this good for Italy in that it gets as many
fleets as possible furthest away from my home.
England is still trying to persuade an EGI attack on France.
Germany is asking me who he should ally with (from a purely tactical
standpoint). I think the answer is France since France is the lesser threat
right now.
Having taken all of this in, I suspect our best move is to play it safe and
allow Russia back into SEV (I doubt he'll get a build as Germany HAS to take
STP right?). This option should leave us with more flexibility next year.
Thus, I guess I'm suggesting:
tri s ser - bud
bla s sev - rum
wes s spa/sc - mao
con - smy
ank - smy
ion - tun
gre - aeg (so that you will remain in CON/ARM in case of unwanted AEG
support - of course, I can forgo this order if you don't care)
That leaves me with a unit unaccounted for, namely TYR. Any suggestions?
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Sorry for the delay in response. I hate sending press when the judge is
down though. I never now if it will arrive or be sent to byte-heaven.
Message from Italy to Germany
> If you were me, who would you ally with, France or England? I'm
> only thinking in a strategic sense. Discount personalities.
>
Very tough question. From a purely tactical sense, probably England. Ivy
can pull back from France and defend against a German attack if he wants -
France doesn't have the luxury of being able to defend against an EG attack.
Allying with France, you could find yourself fighting multiple fronts.
Were Russia eliminated and IT in war, the answer would probably be
different.
Hope
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> Well, that was interesting... 8-) Would you like
> me to lobby Prince Boar to support WMed-MAO? It would
> make him feel safer, (maybe), and give you access to
> the Atlantic, so it strikes me as a good thing for both
> of you.
>
I appreciate this but it won't be necessary. I'm not quite ready yet to
move into the MAO. France and I have come to an agreement regarding the
MAO. It's not a perfect agreement but it's something the both of us can
live with.
> Do you plan to take Bud for yourself, or
> support Ali in? Either way, I hope you will tell him
> that you will, so that he'll move Sev-Rum, to let me
> take Sev. Please let me know what you're thinking.
>
Unless you feel strongly otherwise, I will be supporting Ali to Budapest and
using diplomatic means to get him to return SEV to its rightful owner.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
>
> I have ordered Spa to MAO as my default orders. I can
> change them if our discussion warrants it. But for now,
> I think this choice reasonable.
>
I thank you in advance for this. It will be the first step in returning to
our original agreement. If I'm not mistaken, the two of us may well have
the longest peace between nations so far. I'd like to see that continue. I
honestly think the German moves this spring have created tension between EG
and peace between them is quite fragile.
>From Italy's perspective, with the Austrian demise imminent, I will be
looking at increased tension with Turkey. I would feel more comfortable in
remaining east if I have as little a threat of fleets entering the Western
Med as possible. Your move of SPA-MAO is the best possible outcome to
achieve that goal. Most of my units are east. I see no reason not to
continue moving in that direction.
I currently have six units, including Vienna, with a chance at 7 if I want
it. It is important to me that we achieve some sort of balance so that one
does not feel threatened by the other in anyway. However, I don't think
Munich is the answer at this point. In order for you to be successful
against England, you will need German assistance; in order for me to be
successful against Turkey, I will need German assistance. I don't think
either of us should make a play for Munich this fall to show Germany that we
are serious in seeking his aide in other parts of Europe.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
I obviously can't count very well. :(
Guess I never really thought I'd ever make to 6 centers let alone 7 with a
shot at 8 if I were greedy. My apologies for my bad math.
Roberto
Message [from Russia] to all
"Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3... " (*THONK*) (The sound of a microphone being
tapped.) "I know you're out there, I can hear you breathing..."
Message from Germany to England
No I never got that one.
............................
> One more thing. Did you ever get the following message? I received
> an e-mail saying that it was undeliverable -- obviously due to USIN
> problems.
>
> Ivy
>
> ***************
>
> Fredd,
>
> >But of course I considered it. Which is why I'm not going to do that. I
> >don't see any advantage. I do see a couple of disadvantages. The main
> >one being that I'd have to start building fleets. What good are fleets
> >going to be against Italy or Turkey? Not much. They're be good against
> >you, and then against France. They'd leave me weaker on the Russian
> >Steppes
>
> I hadn't even thought of that, but then I have been totally out of it for
> several days now.
>
> I wrote Italy. He is still the key. That one army. There is a world of
> difference between Tyrolia->Munich and Tyrolia->Piedmont.
>
> Once I here from him I will try to put together some moves and we can
> communicate in more detail.
>
> Ivy
Message from Germany to England
> No. I have not heard yet from Italy. Has he written to you?
One short note. No substance.
> I think that what you did last turn set us back much further than
> my move to the North Sea.
Excuse me while I beat my dead horse. 'But I wouldn't have made my move
if you hadn't gone to the North Sea.' The horse is sufficiently dead
now I should think. Let's move on.
> Are you aware that Turkey is supposed to give Sevastopol to Russia
> this fall? Russia is not dead. Expect Russia to move War->Mos
> and Ukr->Sev.
Interesting. I hadn't heard that. It does make sense though doesn't
it. I and R announced the 'juggernaut' a long time ago. It just hasn't
been strong enough to get any attention. Plus Turkey has told me at
least twice that he's starting a ground campaign against southern
Russia. I wonder if this means that Turkey is the one that is supposed
to get VIE? Hence T, I, and R all build one. An interesting trio.
(turkey behind both - that'll never last)
I've been planning on Russia disbanding that fleet, finally. I guess
this means that it could still hang around. This means that I'd best
take STP with the army. Keeping the fleet to counter Russia's fleet
retreat.
I have no designs on taking Norway before you're ready.
Fredd
Message from France to England
Wingo:
>Nah. I am a very even-tempered person
>(like you apparently).
Ah, I think that you are much better than I. I do have a
temper. I took your betrayal quite badly. Do you
remember my calling you an eel-faced slug? I guess that
was not very nice of me.
Hmmm, now that I think about it, I probably did not say
that to your face or in a note, only to Prince Boar and
my sister. Uh, forget that I mentioned it! ;-) I guess
that you did call me fishy, so we are even :-)
At any rate, how are you coming with the decision to
withdraw from your foolish attack on France. I suppose
that there is little for us to negotiate on the topic.
You will either withdraw or you will not. We do not have
to coordinate your withdrawal. I am not likely to risk
my position until you have actually withdrawn. As I have
stated before, my defense of France will not hurt you if
you do withdraw. I will just muck around in my own land.
Therefore, just do it and you need not worry about it
hurting your position.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
Ah, finally the judge appears to be working. Now we can
continue our discussions. I believe that you got at
least one copy of all of my messages, therefore I will
not repeat them. I will wait for you to let me know that
you have time.
The most important topic is whether you might support
Burgundy to Belgium. But I am available to negotiate
anything that concerns you.
Ivy is a little frustrated, don't you think?
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
It sure is difficult comunicating when the judge is up
and down. One never knows when messages were sent versus
others read. Sorry, but this note will be in a rush.
I appreciate your message explaining your position. I am
glad to hear that the neutrality and peace with France is
as important to you as it is to France.
We note that your message agreed with one of my earlier
assumptions that you prefer peace with Germany and hope
that if I am able to find an ally in the North it is
Germany and not England. I made that guess because it
made sense for you. It would help a lot if you sent a
note to Germany urging him to side with me. It would not
hurt for you to imply that if he does, that allows you
some freedom to deal with Turkey, which can only help
him.
I believe from your message that you do prefer that I
take MAO from Spain. You did not comment on my concern
about Germany and England combining to take Burgundy.
But I can deal with that if it happens. Just to confirm,
I am leaving my order of Spa -> MAO. You did not confirm
that you are supporting it. I ask and hope that you will
!
-- Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
> >At least I knew that MAO was safe.
>The original plan for my defense was to take the MAO.
>But Italy would not help me do so.
Italy has been very open with me. He wanted to support you to restrain the
EG alliance. At the same time he admitted that he wanted southern French
centers for himself -- as soon as he could get there with two fleets. His
compromise was to limit his support to the Mediterranean and not to get
involved in anything beyond Gibraltar.
>At any rate, how are you coming with the decision to
>withdraw from your foolish attack on France. I suppose
>that there is little for us to negotiate on the topic.
>You will either withdraw or you will not.
Yes, I agree completely with these statements.
Most cordially,
the slug
Message from Master to all
Extending the deadline one more day, now that USIN seems to be back
with us for good.
Doug
Message from England to Germany
> > Are you aware that Turkey is supposed to give Sevastopol to Russia
> > this fall? Russia is not dead. Expect Russia to move War->Mos
> > and Ukr->Sev.
>
>Interesting. I hadn't heard that. It does make sense though doesn't
>it. I and R announced the 'juggernaut' a long time ago. It just hasn't
>been strong enough to get any attention. Plus Turkey has told me at
>least twice that he's starting a ground campaign against southern
>Russia. I wonder if this means that Turkey is the one that is supposed
>to get VIE? Hence T, I, and R all build one. An interesting trio.
>(turkey behind both - that'll never last)
No, it will never last. Turkey will choose between attacking Russia or
Italy. I think that what he does in Sevastopol will tell us which.
Still no word from Italy. What is this guy up to? I can't think of any
good reason why he doesn't want to communicate with me.
It has gotten to the point where I must make plans without his input. So,
here goes (but stay tuned later in the day).
First, do not support Belgium to Burgundy. My gut feeling is that, in the
final analysis, you will want Ruhr to defend Holland or Munich. I am
leaning toward NAO s MAO; MAO s Nth->Eng; Pic s Nth-Eng; Bel s Pic.
To be honest I also have to at least consider Nth s Bel. I know this could
really mess us up. I don't think you would help France gain ascendancy in
the Atlantic. In attacking France my fleets are drawn to the south. But
if France attacks me (with your help) his fleets are drawn to the
north. In the aftermath there is a big difference in the position of
Atlantic fleets.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
You sure know how to make a guy nervous.
No one on this planet wants to help you more than I do right now. You want
to attack Germany? Fine, count me in. You still want to attack
France? Fine, count me in. In both cases, we need a little time to say
the right things to France and Germany.
You want to pull out of the west altogether? Then it is to your advantage
to let me know, for in that case I may be trapped between France and
Germany by myself and you will want me to survive as long as possible.
Now, about your problem with Turkey. He told me that he is considering
letting Russia have Sevastopol, provided you give him Budapest. He said
that if you don't give him Budapest, then he may still give Sevastopol to
Russia. He wants my advice. Clearly he has to decide between attacking
you or Russia next.
Back to your western choice. You might consider working with France to
take Munich, although France may still be disappointed with you lack of
support in MAO last turn. Germany cannot save both Holland and Munich.
A totally different possibility is Wes s MAO->spa(nc) with Tyr->Pie,
Ion->Tys. This is your best shot at getting French centers next
year. These moves could be combined with helping Turkey into Budapest to
keep him happy and insure that the Austrian fleet vanishes.
Lot's of choices & I want to help.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> > >For I AM innocent. That's my style.
>
> > I appreciate your feelings, but there are times
> >when a stab is the right thing to do, and it seems
> >to me that this Spring was the right time for you to
> >stab Germany.
>
>We all have been successful with our own styles. That's why we are here.
I'm not trying to change your style. I suspect
that our styles are very similar, in fact, but I try
to consider the board separately from my perceptions
of a player's style. Your F1903 moves looked like a
stab setup to me, and would to any German, so I knew
that Fredd would react the way he did. If you weren't
planning to stab, why did you move Lon-Nth, Iri-Eng
last Fall? As I saw it, once you made that move, you
were in a stab or be stabbed position.
>Turkey wants my advice.
Tell him to give me Sev. ;-)
>Is Italy talking to you?
I finally got a note from him in the 8/28-8/29
group.
>By noon I bet that you will even be able to spell "Turkey" ! 8-)
I can spell Turkey, I just can't type. ;-)
>Why didn't you include the possibility of Italy attacking Germany?
For Italy to attack Germany, he'd have to take
Bud and Boh, and that would seal off Turkey's only
avenue for growth within the alliance structure. If
Italy takes Bud, attacking Turkey makes more sense,
than turning his back on him to attack Germany, I
think.
>have you heard from Italy?
Yes, he claims to be supporting France, and
Turkey's claim to Bud, and my claim to Sev.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to France and Italy
Gentlemen,
Have you considered a supported attack on Munich?
Tyl S Bur-Mun, WMed & Spa/SC S Por-MAO, Bre S Par-Pic
would work quite nicely, I think.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to Italy
Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>I'm not quite ready yet to move into the MAO
Okay.
>Unless you feel strongly otherwise, I will be supporting Ali to Budapest
>and using diplomatic means to get him to return SEV to its rightful owner.
This works for me.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Roberto claims that he favors making Bud Turkish
and Sev Russian again.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Thanks for the note. I cannot convince Italy to attack
Germany. He wants to keep that alliance possibility for
the future. He is concerned about Turkey in the long
term. Therefore I do not expect him to support me to
Munich. I did ask him though :-) But I have given up
the idea.
Both Germany and England have mentioned that they might
consider switching sides. It is not a guarantee, but it
at least it is an improvement over their telling me there
was no chance. :-)
--Xavier
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>Thanks for the note. I cannot convince Italy to attack
>Germany. He wants to keep that alliance possibility for
>the future. He is concerned about Turkey in the long
>term. Therefore I do not expect him to support me to
>Munich. I did ask him though :-) But I have given up
>the idea.
I didn't think he'd go for it, but it made sense
from and anti-EG position, so I felt I should mention it.
Did you offer to support Tyl-Mun, by chance?
>Both Germany and England have mentioned that they might
>consider switching sides. It is not a guarantee, but it at least it is an
>improvement over their telling me there was no chance. :-)
I continue to point out to Ivy that stabbing
Germany is his only logical alternative at this
point, and I'd obviously rather see EF vs. G than
FG vs. E at this point, but he has not succumbed to
the wisdom of my position, yet. 8-) (Did you ever
notice that people tend to discount your strategic
and tactical advice when you have fewer Centers than
you started the war with? 8-)
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> I've been thinking about your question of should we let Russia have SEV and
> thus keeping our growth on an even platform vs one of us get a 2-for-1 deal.
> Honestly, I don't really have an answer. One on hand, I don't see the
> reason in delaying the inevitable (that of you taking SEV from Russia down
> the road anyway). On the other hand, Germany's pull back from France has
> not made Ivy very happy and thus a Russian presence against Germany might
> keep the West unsettled for a longer period of time.
That is my sense as well. If EG conflict breaks out, then having Russia
around to work against Germany could be in our best interests. If Russia
keeps his fleet alive, that will give Germany a more difficult time getting
his fleets out. Russia has also speculated about disbanding the fleet and
building a third army, which (if used against Germany) would also do much to
affect the E/G balance of power.
> I guess what I need to know from you is, how do you forsee the division of
> spoils now that the Austrian demise is imminent. Where will our next areas
> of growth come from - for the both of us. Your growth potential seems
> rather obvious as SEV, WAR, MOS all seem to be reachable goals. If the EG
> alliance has indeed hit a snag, centers from Iberia will not be so easy to
> come by for me.
I actually expect the opposite: EG conflict will make Ivy desperate for an
Italian ally, and the reduction of the threat against France increases your
options to attack France rather than help him. I would think that France's
chances would be even worse against EI cooperation than EG, if England is kept
viable.
As for our next areas of growth, I agree my obvious targets are Sev, Mos and
War. Your obvious targets are Mar and Spa. FG alliance changes things in
France, and that might make it more difficult for you to gain there, though
unless England dies quickly, the odds are still in your favor. I might have
an easier time against Russia, but not if I hope to use him as a janissary
against Germany.
In the final analysis, I'm not opposed to trading centers in Austria in order
to keep the IT balance. For instance, if you were to get stalled in France
while I hit Russia, I would agree to turn Bud over to you. Given what I
perceive to be a rather unpredictable game, my first desire is to see
stability in the south, which means keeping IT forces on par with each other.
To me that includes not letting Turkey outpace Italy, just as much as not
letting Italy outpace Turkey.
> All three of EFG have suggested to me that war between IT seems inevitable.
> As long as they think that way, I'd like to prove them wrong. I'm just not
> quite sure how to go about that just yet.
I'm sure each of EFG have reasons to want you thinking along those lines, and
I wouldn't be surprised if each of their predictions had some angle in it that
favored them.
In any case, the question is what happens long-term. Clearly, a land-based
Turkey isn't a solo proposition. Even if I gained all of Balkans, Russia,
Austria and Germany (which would be all but impossible), that's only 17
centers. So on the assumption I'm going for a solo (a safe assumption to make
in this game), then they're right.
On the other hand, a strong land-based Turkey would be very tough to kill, and
would be in place to have some influence over the balance of power in the end
game. So far, my only concern has been to survive and be viable going into
the mid-game, and that continues to be the approach I'm taking. This game has
been one of shifting alliances so far, and I expect that to continue. So, I'm
taking rather more of a short-term approach than usual, with the emphasis on
stability and flexibility.
In any case, I sincerely share your desire to prove them wrong!
> France has told me his default move is SPA-MAO and has asked for my fleet to
> support that move. I consider this good for Italy in that it gets as many
> fleets as possible furthest away from my home.
Agreed. I might suggest supporting England to Spain, but supporting him to
Spa/sc would not be prudent.
> England is still trying to persuade an EGI attack on France.
At this point, I would encourage you to cooperate with England against France
as soon as possible, though probably not in this turn.
> Germany is asking me who he should ally with (from a purely tactical
> standpoint). I think the answer is France since France is the lesser threat
> right now.
He asked me the very same thing, and I come up with the same answer. I think
it very likely that EG conflict is about to break out, and we surely should be
prepared for it.
> Having taken all of this in, I suspect our best move is to play it safe and
> allow Russia back into SEV (I doubt he'll get a build as Germany HAS to take
> STP right?). This option should leave us with more flexibility next year.
Those are my thoughts as well, and I'm glad you agree. There's still a chance
Russia could disband & rebuild an army, but that could be useful too.
Although, in the long run it makes taking Mos/War more difficult.
> Thus, I guess I'm suggesting:
>
> tri s ser - bud
> bla s sev - rum
> wes s spa/sc - mao
> con - smy
> ank - smy
> ion - tun
> gre - aeg (so that you will remain in CON/ARM in case of unwanted AEG
> support - of course, I can forgo this order if you don't care)
I would prefer you held in Greece; I'm not that concerned about unwanted
support, and the fleet will be gone after this turn anyway.
I noticed your suggestion of Tri S Ser-Bud, but you didn't say what you plan
with Vie. Did you not like Vie S Ser-Bud, with Bul/Tri bouncing in Ser? I
kind of like that as a way of demilitarizing the Balkans, and perhaps our
bounce may have others guessing.
> That leaves me with a unit unaccounted for, namely TYR. Any suggestions?
My suggestion would be Piedmont, in preparation for an attack on France. An
alternative would be to attack Munich, though I doubt Germany will leave it
open, and it would be difficult to keep even if you got it.
Anyway, it all sort of boils down to what we think will happen in the west.
If we expect to see FG vs. E, then I think it would be wisest in the long term
to prop up Russia, and therefore England, giving you better opportunities in
France. In that case, then the move is Ser-Bud, Sev-Rum.
The alternative is to go for the gusto now, which would mean you take Vie and
Bud, I stay in Sev, and try for War/Mos ASAP. The risk here is that it
strongly favors Germany, which in turn weakens England, which in turn
strengthens France. This seems more of a short-term approach to me, and my
gut tells me it may be somewhat short-sighted. but I'm not ruling it out if
you can think of a reason this would be a better way to go.
> Sorry for the delay in response. I hate sending press when the judge is
> down though. I never now if it will arrive or be sent to byte-heaven.
Same here. Hopefully the judge is now back up and running, and this will get
through. I'm entering my orders of Ser-Bud, Bul-Ser, Con/Arm-Smy, Bla S
Sev-Rum, just so I have something in. Let me know what you think of the
above.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Ah, the judge seems to be up. I have a few more alternatives, just for the
sake of argument.
Alternative one is for you to make a stronger anti-French move this turn, with
Ion-WMS, WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie. It doesn't get France's F Spa out of the way
(though he might accomplish that himself), but it does give you a strong
anti-French position.
Alternative two is that I could try a death-stab on Russia now, with Sev-Mos,
Bla S Arm-Sev, Con-Smy, Bul-Con, Ser-Bul (perhaps Ser/Gre-Bul for the bounce).
The drawback is that my attack could bounce if Russia tries to cover Mos,
though I think holding in War makes more sense. Also, there's a good chance
that all but one of my home centers would be covered, and I'd have an unusable
build if I did gain two.
I'm not trying to make things more complicated than they already are, but I
thought I should at least mention them.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
> Roberto claims that he favors making Bud Turkish
> and Sev Russian again.
He's said the same to me, but has not yet really committed to it. In any
case, I have ordered Bla S Sev-Rum, and I'm counting on Ukr-Sev. Austria must
die this year. And, if Italy renegs on his promise, all the more reason I'll
need my Russian ally to be as strong as possible.
There are indications that EG conflict may begin soon. I've already
encouraged England to seek Russian cooperation in that event, so I hope the
two of you will discuss anti-German cooperation soon (if you haven't already).
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> Has he replied at all?? I need to hear from Italy most of all right now,
> and I have not heard a word from him. Is he talking to you?
I did finally hear from him, delayed of course by the judge outage. He said
he favors supporting me to Bud, so my orders at present are to vacate Sev.
> I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
> on his intentions in the west.
Hopefully you'll hear from him soon. I have suggested that he move Ion-WMS,
WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie to set up attacks on France next year.
> Italy has never mislead me, so when he does reply I may have some
> information that could help us both.
Any info at all would be most helpful. I, of course, promise to return the
favor in kind.
> Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
> any deadline for your decisions?
Not really, other than the game deadline tomorrow (Thursday) night.
Germany has written to both me and Italy with the question, would Germany be
better off with a French or English ally, from a purely tactical point of
view. I am of course encouraging him to stick with England. However, I take
it as a sign that he is at least considering abandoning the EG alliance.
There are two ramifications to this. First is that it increases my desire to
keep Russia alive, which should help England, and therefore hurt Germany and
France. Also, I've turned up the heat on urging Italy to work with you
against France.
Naturally, it's imperative that France not be allowed to build. At this
point, I wouldn't rule out FG cooperation, and therefor I would urge you to
use Nth to support Belgium.
I'll write at once if I receive any news, and I hope you'll do the same.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali
>He has not yet really committed to it.
He may have been waiting for me to express an
opinion on Ukr-Sev. I sent him a very neutral letter
hoping to find out which way he was leaning, and he
may not have wanted to commit without being sure I
was on board.
>I'm counting on Ukr-Sev.
It's been ordered.
>I've encouraged England to seek Russian cooperation I hope you will discuss
>anti-German cooperation soon
I've offered my cooperation ever since he moved to
Nth, but he has yet to accept.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
> I have a question for you. I'm a little too close to the action.
> I think that I can't see the forest through the trees.
> If you were me, who would you ally with, France or England? I'm
> only thinking in a strategic sense. Discount personalities.
Man, that's a really difficult question to answer, especially since I usually
consider personality before geography.
Empirically, when I play Germany I have generally had greater success by
allying with France, since FG have more clearly defined borders along the
Maginot line. The problem then becomes dividing up England, and Germany won't
want to let France have Beglium. If France doesn't have Belgium, he'll want
London. Either way, alliance with France against England will mean you'll
need to build up some fleet strength to counter-balance French fleets.
Alliance with England makes it more difficult to establish defensible borders
(as his fleet in Nth makes clear). However, given the current board position,
turning around to attack England now might be difficult, and might take some
time. It would definitely detract from your ability to hit Russia, and would
mean a bigger focus on fleet builds, which weakens your position in the
center. So I guess if it were me, I'd stick with England for now *if* I felt
he could be trusted. But that's a pretty big "if", which only you can answer.
Sorry I haven't given you a definitive answer, but that's a pretty tough
question! What you ultimately decide is up to you, and I'll still seek
alliance with Germany either way. However, your decision does have a
far-reaching on my own plans, so I hope you'll give me some hint as to your
decision.
Regards,
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I did finally hear from him, delayed of course by the judge outage. He said
>he favors supporting me to Bud, so my orders at present are to vacate Sev.
>
> > I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
> > on his intentions in the west.
>
>Hopefully you'll hear from him soon. I have suggested that he move Ion-WMS,
>WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie to set up attacks on France next year.
I have not heard from Italy at all. My best guess is that he is trying to
make up his mind before contacting me. Frankly, at this point, any wise
Italy would have to view Turkish advice with suspicion. Why would you give
Sev to Russia? Wouldn't that mean you were about to attack Italy? Perhaps
not, but any explanation you hand Italy would viewed with suspicion as well.
> Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
> > any deadline for your decisions?
>
>Not really, other than the game deadline tomorrow (Thursday) night.
I wrote that when I thought the deadline was going to be Tuesday night.
>Germany has written to both me and Italy with the question, would Germany be
>better off with a French or English ally, from a purely tactical point of
>view. I am of course encouraging him to stick with England. However, I take
>it as a sign that he is at least considering abandoning the EG alliance.
I have no doubt of this. My oddsmaker gives 3-2 in favor of Germany
switching sides.
>There are two ramifications to this. First is that it increases my desire to
>keep Russia alive, which should help England, and therefore hurt Germany and
>France. Also, I've turned up the heat on urging Italy to work with you
>against France.
Say your advice is followed. Italy attacks France. Russia goes for
Germany. What in the world will you be doing?
In 95% of the games you could just plow forward in any direction now and
win. The rest of the world is in disarray. But you have a problem (wish I
had this problem). If you show signs of dominating, you run the risk of a
stop-Turkey movement. With these players it is almost certain.
>I'll write at once if I receive any news, and I hope you'll do the same.
Ditto. Italy, when he has written in the past, has always been honest with me.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> I have not heard from Italy at all. My best guess is that he is trying to
> make up his mind before contacting me. Frankly, at this point, any wise
> Italy would have to view Turkish advice with suspicion. Why would you give
> Sev to Russia? Wouldn't that mean you were about to attack Italy? Perhaps
> not, but any explanation you hand Italy would viewed with suspicion as well.
Here are the arguments I've made to Roberto.
One, it's very important to me that he and I continue to gain one build
apiece, so I'm not comfortable with his building two, and likewise I don't
expect him to be comfortable with me building two (nor am I really comfortable
with that myself). I've made a big deal about even size & even growth with
Italy, right from the start.
Two, if an FG emerges, it's going to be to both our advantages if England is
strong. England's position is strenthened if Russia is alive to bother
Germany. If Turkey defeats Russia, then Turkey could pressure Germany too;
but not for a year or two at best. A stronger England, and EI cooperation,
make it that much easier for Italy to make gains against France. And an
anti-German Russia would likely be out of position for a Turkish stab later on
anyway.
Conversely, if I go anti-Russian now, and FG emerges, the result is entirely
pro-German, which helps France, which hurts Italy.
> Say your advice is followed. Italy attacks France. Russia goes for
> Germany. What in the world will you be doing?
Recovering my position and getting ready for the Next Big Thing. Assuming I
gain a build this year, I may also have two home centers blocked by Turkish
armies (assuming unwanted support from Aeg). So, most likely I'll need next
year just to get my armies out of Turkey, and in position to respond to
whatever next year brings.
The point is that my attacking Russia now would likely impact the situation in
the West. Since I do not know what that situation will be, I'm hesitant to do
it. Furthermore, my best guess is that it would impact the west in a way I'd
rather not see. If the next turn or two indicates that I'm best off attacking
Russia, I can do it then. If not, then that's one bridge I'll be glad I
didn't burn.
> In 95% of the games you could just plow forward in any direction now and
> win. The rest of the world is in disarray. But you have a problem (wish I
> had this problem). If you show signs of dominating, you run the risk of a
> stop-Turkey movement. With these players it is almost certain.
Almost certain, yes. And hence my strong desire for even IT growth. I don't
want Roberto to start having concerns that I'll outpace him. Indeed, such a
concern may well prevent him from supporting me to Bud in the first place.
And indeed, if I made gains against Russia while he got stalled in France, I
would most likely agree to swap centers in Austria for the sake of stability.
None of which really gives me any long-term solo prospects. But in this game,
I expect less-than-average stability in terms of long-lasting alliances, which
means it's that much harder to envision the board two or three years hence.
As a result, I've tended to take more of a short-term approach than I normally
do, as I mentioned before. Right at this moment, my primary focus is on
stability and flexibility.
Russia claims he's been offering you anti-German cooperation since your move
to Nth. If that's true, then I hope you can at least start the ball rolling.
If EG holds together, then nothing will have been lost. If not, then you've
at least got the icebreaking out of the way and can get down to business. And
even if I end up hitting Russia down the road, a year or two of Russian
efforts against Germany would, I think, be well worthwhile.
In any case, you've not said anything pro or con yet about keeping Russia
alive. I guess there is still a small chance that I might go anti-Russian
this turn, depending on how discussions go with Russia and Italy (and you).
So if you had to vote, would you vote in favor of my propping up Russia or
attacking him?
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> So far, my only concern has been to survive and be
> viable going into the mid-game,
Mine too and it's my belief that a stong fleet-based Italy can alter the
balance of power at either end of the stalemate line in the end-game.
Here's hoping I make it that far.
>
> Agreed. I might suggest supporting England to Spain, but
> supporting him to Spa/sc would not be prudent.
>
England has mentioned Spa/nc but I haven't replied back yet. I doubt I'd
agree to that though. I'd like to see France push a little farther north
before hitting him hard.
>
> At this point, I would encourage you to cooperate with
> England against France as soon as possible, though probably
> not in this turn.
>
I've always told England that I'm willing to help him against France once
the Austrian fleet has been neutralized. That done, I'm prepared to
negotiate with England immediately on a more active level.
>
> I would prefer you held in Greece; I'm not that concerned
> about unwanted support,
Okay, just thought I'd throw out the idea.
>
> I noticed your suggestion of Tri S Ser-Bud, but you didn't
> say what you plan
> with Vie. Did you not like Vie S Ser-Bud, with Bul/Tri
> bouncing in Ser? I
> kind of like that as a way of demilitarizing the Balkans, and
> perhaps our
> bounce may have others guessing.
>
I missed that suggestion in all of the messages and down time. Yes, Vie S
Ser-Bud and Tri-Ser is better.
> > That leaves me with a unit unaccounted for, namely TYR.
> Any suggestions?
>
> My suggestion would be Piedmont, in preparation for an attack
> on France. An alternative would be to attack Munich, though
> I doubt Germany will leave it open, and it would be difficult
> to keep even if you got it.
>
I'd rather keep Germany focused on EF (and even northern Russia from my
perspective) than me so action in Munich has been eliminated from my plan
this fall.
Regarding Piedmont.....
> Alternative one is for you to make a stronger anti-French
> move this turn, with Ion-WMS, WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie
Thank you for mentioning this alternative. I have been seriously
considering this alternative. However, I'd really only want to make these
moves if I could build two fleets this winter and be comfortable in knowing
that I can keep France on the MAO side of Iberia. Of course, that means
that I'd need Budapest and Russia wouldn't get SEV etc, etc. The safer,
more cautious approach was being discussed and I didn't want to seem pushy
in asking for Budapest.
If I moved to PIE and GOL, my having an additional unit shouldn't pose
nearly the problem for you since I would have an immediate enemy in France -
something I currently don't have.
Barring that, I'd probably order Tyr-Ven (at the request of Germany) and Ion
s Gre (at the request of France) and see how the west plays out. I'd build
a fleet in Naples and I'd still have plenty of opportunities against either
Germany or France.
> Alternative two is that I could try a death-stab on Russia now,
> with Sev-Mos, Bla S Arm-Sev, Con-Smy, Bul-Con, Ser-Bul (perhaps
> Ser/Gre-Bul for the bounce). The drawback is that my attack
> could bounce if Russia tries to cover Mos, though I think
> holding in War makes more sense. Also, there's a good chance
> that all but one of my home centers would be covered, and I'd
> have an unusable build if I did gain two.
Actually, the biggest drawback I see is that Rumania is uncovered against
Bud-Rum or the retreating Budapest. Probably not your best moves.
I did just think of a set of moves that might accomplish everything I want.
Vie s Ser - Bud
Tri - Ser
Tyr - Tri (this is the key)
Germany wants me to evacuate Tyrolia. I'm sure I can pass it off as a
(failed) stab against you (perhaps even including Gre-Bul and Ion-Aeg
orders). If the west sees an IT conflict, they're more likely to relax a
bit and we might just catch them off-guard next year. That includes Russia
as well.
I don't know. Maybe I'm the one making the position more complicated now.
I've entered the more cautious orders mentioned above. We still have
tomorrow to finalize a plan of attack.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
>
> I believe from your message that you do prefer that I
> take MAO from Spain. You did not comment on my concern
> about Germany and England combining to take Burgundy.
Based on my conversations with England and Germany, them combining to
re-take Burgundy is remote.
> Just to confirm,
> I am leaving my order of Spa -> MAO. You did not confirm
> that you are supporting it. I ask and hope that you will
> !
Sorry about that. Consider this note confirmation of my support for Spa/sc
- MAO.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia and Turkey
>
> Have you come to an agreement regarding Budapest?
> Splitting the Austrian Centers seems like the way to go,
> but I'd like to confirm that everyone is on the same
> page here.
>
Italy has agreed to support Turkey to Budapest. In exchange, we have kindly
asked that Sevastopol be returned to its original owner.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
The theory is that I should be more comfortable with this, since it will
mean he has an enemy in France. I get the impression he'll support me to
Bud if I request it; but in that case, would not make any overtly
anti-French moves at this time.
Much of my reasoning in pursuing this approach surrounds the impact on
England and Germany should I attack Russia. That being the case, I'm hoping
for some English perspective. Lacking that, I may go anti-Russian after
all, although it feels like an appeasement of Italy. Still, if it does send
Roberto toward France's coast, it might be worthwhile.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Italy to France
>
> I believe from your message that you do prefer that I
> take MAO from Spain. You did not comment on my concern
> about Germany and England combining to take Burgundy.
Based on my conversations with England and Germany, them combining to
re-take Burgundy is remote.
> Just to confirm,
> I am leaving my order of Spa -> MAO. You did not confirm
> that you are supporting it. I ask and hope that you will
> !
Sorry about that. Consider this note confirmation of my support for Spa/sc
- MAO.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia and Turkey
>
> Have you come to an agreement regarding Budapest?
> Splitting the Austrian Centers seems like the way to go,
> but I'd like to confirm that everyone is on the same
> page here.
>
Italy has agreed to support Turkey to Budapest. In exchange, we have kindly
asked that Sevastopol be returned to its original owner.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
The theory is that I should be more comfortable with this, since it will
mean he has an enemy in France. I get the impression he'll support me to
Bud if I request it; but in that case, would not make any overtly
anti-French moves at this time.
Much of my reasoning in pursuing this approach surrounds the impact on
England and Germany should I attack Russia. That being the case, I'm hoping
for some English perspective. Lacking that, I may go anti-Russian after
all, although it feels like an appeasement of Italy. Still, if it does send
Roberto toward France's coast, it might be worthwhile.
Regards,
Ali
Message from France to Germany, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Just to let you know that I will be pretty busy today.
The Dauphin has me doing some experiments in the dungeon
on some English prisoners. Therefore I may be slow in
getting back to you. But do not hesitate to write me, I
will write back, just a little delay during the day.
Now, off to my job. I wonder what this long pointed
thing with the three curved blades does?
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
>me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
>Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
[You and Italy have noticed, haven't you, that Ion cannot move to Wms?]
I have given the current situation a lot of thought and have come to the
rather predictable conclusion that I do want Italy to attack France. Prior
to getting your last e-mail I was preparing to send you a message inquiring
precisely about the possibility that you just outlined -- Italy gets
Budapest while you go for Russia.
Your situation is far more secure than Italy's (or anyone else's), because
Italy has too many boundaries. He cannot, or at least should not, continue
with any western adventures with limited resources.
If you respond favorably, I would like to send a joint message to Germany,
Italy, and you suggesting that Germany and Turkey take out Russia and GEI
take out France, leaving just the four of us. I might even go so far at to
suggest a possible division of spoils, at least in the west. That's easy
for me to do, since I would have the least.
What I have in mind (besides obvious, immediate self interest) is still the
ultimate scenerio that you and I have discussed before. A EIGT ending
still leaves G & I in the middle to pick off one at a time.
If you can get back to me before noon with approval, I will send such a
message with modifications as you may suggest. If I don't hear from you, I
will probably send it anyway for time is short.
Cheers,
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
France is willing to consider an alliance with
either you or Germany, based on my reading of his
letters. Nth S Bel-Hol, Pic-Bel, MAO-ECh will get
you a build, keep Germany from building and give you
an alliance with France. It seems like your best
chance to avoid being on the short end of the
Western Triangle at this point.
Your Friend,
Nick.
PS Obviously, I have a vested interest here, but
I don't believe that my analysis is colored by
that interest, here.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
First let me confirm my understanding of the main options we're considering.
The first is a more conservative approach, along the lines of the following:
Vie S Ser - Bud
Tri - Ser
Bul - Ser
Bla S Sev - Rum
Con - Smy
Arm - Smy
Gre Hold (or -> Bul)
Ion S Gre (or -> Tun)
Tyr ?
The second is a more aggressive approach, involving Vie S Tri-Bud, Tyr-Pie,
WMS-GOL, Ion-WMS, with me staying in Sevastopol. Thereafter, you attack
France in force while I attack Russia.
It seems that I want you to attack France, and you want me to attack Russia,
and neither of us is wholly comfortable with the other gaining Bud. All very
reasonable it seems to me. The conservative approach would seem to give us
both more flexibility, whereas if we each attack our prospective targets,
we'll each have a better sense of security within our alliance, and probably
beter prospects for gain.
Assuming we take the latter approach, I'd like to re-address the issue of Mos.
Of course, as you pointed out, my original though will not work due to lack of
coverage in Rum. What would you think of Sev-Mos, Bla S Arm-Sev, Ser S
Bul-Rum, Gre/Con-Bul?
The risk, of course, is that Austria might order to Smy. If I gained Moscow,
I'd still build one and could boot him out pretty easily. If I bounce Mos,
then I won't be able to build, but Arm will be still be there to dislodge Smy
next year. I don't know that Aeg-Smy is a likely move, but it would mean at
least some chance that Austria might stay alive until next year.
The reward is that I might gain two, thereby keeping up with you; there are a
couple of ways I could end up building one; and also a chance that I might go
without. If Austria did end in Smy, his fleet would be out of position to
threaten anything else, and so there's still a high probability he'd be
eliminated next year. But the main advantage I see is that if Mos goes, it
would take Russia down to one, which will be a big help even if I must then
expel Austria from Smy.
I keep telling myself that this plan is rash, but something about it keeps
calling to me. I guess if I stay in Sev, my relations with Russia will be
trashed anyway, and so attacking Mos wouldn't make things any worse. But yet
I really want to see Austria gone this year. Playing conservatively is safer,
but taking the risk has a much bigger payoff. A bird in the hand is worth two
in the bush, but he who hesitates is lost, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
Anyway, if we did go the more aggressive route, do you think my Mos attack
would be the way to go, or would you advise just holding in Sev so as to
ensure Austria's elimination?
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Arrrgh! I hate these judge outages, they don't make anything easier. I wrote
you this morning, but I still haven't seen a confirmation. My orders are
still in with the "conservative" plan, but I've not ruled out going the other
route if we can talk it through.
Ali
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
Well the judge seems to be out again, so I feel like I'm sending this by
carrier pidgeon: it may be out of date by the time it reaches you.
In any case, Roberto claims to favor supporting me to Bud, but hasn't yet
made a firm commitment. It's clear to me he really wants Bud for himself.
So if I take Bud, chances are I'll still have more Italian units around me
than I'd like. On the other hand, attacking Russia by staying in Sev would
seem to favor Germany.
At present, my orders are to attack Bud, but I could go either way. What
would you advise?
Ali
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
I know we've been having problems with the judge, but I'm desperate for some
word from you. Will you be attacking Russia this turn? If so, are you
attacking Moscow? I ask because I am considering Mos myself; and the last
thing I want to see is you and me bouncing there due to miscommunication.
Of course I ask that you keep this information strictly confidential! And I
pledge to do the same.
Please write at your earliest convenience. Whatever we do, let's not screw
each other up now.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
Just writing to touch base (assuming this gets through). My orders are
unchanged, Bla S Sev-Rum, and I'm removing my wait with this press. I get
the impression that Roberto really doesn't want to support me to Bud, but
that he will go through with it now that he's promised it.
I don't know if it's the judge outage or what, but I've heard nothing from
England, France or Germany in quite some time. But the last indications
were that Germany is seriously considering switching sides to GF. If so,
then England will surely get off his duff sooner or later and write you.
What are your thoughts on disbanding the fleet and rebuilding in Mos, vs.
keeping the fleet?
Let's stay in touch,
Ali
Message from Germany to Master
Doug:
Can I have an extension until Tuesday nite? Big weekend.
Fredd
Message from Germany to all
The US Labor Day weekend is upon us. I'm afraid that I'll be out of
touch until Tuesday. (you can talk about me now)
Fredd
Message from Russia to Turkey
>Message from Turkey to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>Just writing to touch base (assuming this gets through).
Yeah, I can't recall the last time it took less than
16 hours for USIN to process my mail. 8-(
>My orders are Bla S Sev-Rum, and I'm removing my wait
I've got Sev-Rum, and I tried to remove wait
yesterday afternoon. Perhaps it's gone through by now.
>Roberto really doesn't want to support me to Bud, but
>that he will go through with it now that he's promised it.
I think he's sincere. Stabbing you now will make
him the dominant Power in the East, but is likely to
result in a 3-way. Getting you and I to attack Germany,
while he heads west gives him solo options.
>What are your thoughts on disbanding the fleet and rebuilding in Mos, vs.
>keeping the fleet?
Germany is a threat as a land Power, so I think
the Army makes more sense, unless he does something
foolish like GoB-StP/SC, and England sneaks into Den.
I'm not going to make a firm decision until I see the
moves, though. What do you think I should do?
>Let's stay in touch,
Judge willing. 8-)
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
What a communications mess. I don't know when USIN came back up; I was in bed.
My moves are in now, but I may still have time to change them to correspond
with whatever you have done.
To the best of your knowledge is Italy getting Budapest and two fleet
builds, so that he can attack France? If so, I will try to change my moves.
Ivy
Message from Observer to Observer
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
vgfp_titleist group:
Eric Hunter has been commenting A LOT
on r.g.d lately, so from his literary
and personal style, I'm pretty damned
sure he is Russia, do you agree???
o Yes, Eric Hunter is Russia for sure!!!
o Yeah, Eric MIGHT be Russia, but.....
o Eric is probably Russia, but if he is then Yonkoski must be France!
o NO WAY IN HECK is Eric Hunter Russia!
o Jim-Bob is a nutcase (or other)
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> What a communications mess. I don't know when USIN came back up; I was in
bed.
Same here.
> My moves are in now, but I may still have time to change them to
correspond
> with whatever you have done.
>
> To the best of your knowledge is Italy getting Budapest and two fleet
> builds, so that he can attack France? If so, I will try to change my
moves.
To the best of my knowledge no, not at this moment. Roberto and I were
supposed to finalize everything yesterday, and the judge was down all day
yesterday. So my orders are still to attack Bud, and I assume Roberto is
supporting me.
I wrote Roberto twice yesterday, but I've not heard back from him. If it
can be safely arranged, there's a fair chance that we'll change our plan.
However, it makes me very nervous to change things when (a) the judge is
being so flaky, and (b) the deadline is past. I'd rather coordinate with a
less-preferred plan, than to have one of us zig while the other zags.
I'll write at once if anything develops.
Ali
Message from Italy to England
Looking back thru my backlog in my inbox, I notice I owe you a message or
two or three. My apologies, but I typically don't like sending press when
the judge is down for various unknown reasons.
Anyway, I know the deadline has passed and this message may not effect the
moves this turn, however, I'm hopeful we might get another extension due to
yesterday's outage.
With the Austrian demise, it would appear I have four choices.
1) attack Germany. I find this the least desirable choice as I really don't
want to anger Germany since he has the ability to aide Turkey in Russia and
the Balkans. I want Turkey and Germany fighting over control of Warsaw and
Moscow.
2) attack Turkey. As you point out, I may end up in a war with Turkey
willingingly or otherwise. If I knew he would turn against me, then a
pre-emptive strike this turn would benefit me greatly.
3) play it cautious and see what unfolds. I have a set of orders available
that just sits and supports, take my build, remain compact, and let the
chips fall where they may. Nothing says I HAVE to be the aggressor at this
point.
4) attack France. I've given this serious consideration. Tyr-Pie, WMS-Gol,
Ion-Tun with a new fleet build looks very strong. France has requested WMS
s Spa/sc-MAO. My question to you is, without my support, would Spain still
succeed in reaching the MAO? And if so, where would your MAO fleet retreat
to?
Which option do you think is best for Italy and why? And which option would
you like, as England, like to see Italy adopt and why?
Lots of questions, but your answers would go a long way in shaping Italian
policy.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Well it seems the judge is back up. I had hoped we could finalize our fall
plans yesterday. At this point, I'm leaning in favor of you taking Bud if
it means you'll build 2 fleets and attack France, but my orders are still
those of our original plan.
I will change orders to hold in Sev (or attack Russia) if I hear from you to
that effect. I'm nervous about changing things when the judge is being
flaky and the deadline is passed, so I won't change anything until you
confirm.
Please write at your earliest convenience.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
I was just penning a response when I got your latest message.
>
> First let me confirm my understanding of the main options
> we're considering.
>
Those are the two options.
>
> Anyway, if we did go the more aggressive route, do you think
> my Mos attack
> would be the way to go, or would you advise just holding in
> Sev so as to ensure Austria's elimination?
>
If we took this tact, I think the gamble in Moscow would be the correct
move. Holding in SEV will burn the last bridge between you and Russia. The
fewer units he has, the less likely he can retaliate. If you don't move to
Moscow, in all probablity Russia would still have two armies next year.
Nothing insurmountable mind you, but two is a whole lot better than one in
this game.
> At this point, I'm leaning in favor of you taking Bud if
> it means you'll build 2 fleets and attack France, but my
> orders are still those of our original plan.
I'll be honest. I am the one who is late so if you don't want to diplome
with a late player, I fully respect that decision. I'm only diploming now
since I've asked our moderator for an extension due to the judge and am
waiting on his decision. The good news is, there is no pressure that the
moves will adjudicate while we're in the middle of talks. I whole-heartedly
refuse to issue orders while the judge is down though since I cannot read
the confirmation message to make sure I didn't mis-order.
I too am in favor of the more aggressive option. I like how our alliance
has progressed and I see no reason why we wouldn't eventually make these
moves next year anyway. Why delay the inevitable? The downside is, it will
probably reintroduce the EG alliance quicker than otherwise but that may
happen anyway. German moves this spring though will have cost the EG side
an entire year of production. On the other hand, we'd be moving forward
full steam.
I will wait to enter orders until I hear from you. Whatever you decide,
cautious, aggressive, or "you know what, I can't diplome with a late power",
is fine by me.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
>4) attack France. I've given this serious consideration. Tyr-Pie, WMS-Gol,
>Ion-Tun with a new fleet build looks very strong. France has requested WMS
>s Spa/sc-MAO. My question to you is, without my support, would Spain still
>succeed in reaching the MAO? And if so, where would your MAO fleet retreat
>to?
>
>Which option do you think is best for Italy and why? And which option would
>you like, as England, like to see Italy adopt and why?
I would like to see you attack France, but the moves that I have entered
assume otherwise.
If you do tell me that you are going to attack France (with me), then I
will change my moves.
It is so obvious that this is best for me, otherwise I risk get crushed
between France and Germany. If I don't get crushed between France and
Germany, it would only be because France went after you!
I know that Turkey was leaning toward giving you Budapest precisely so that
you could build two fleets and safely go for France. He too has been
frustrated by the inability to communicate. I will also write a joint note.
Ultimately, I would like to eliminate France and then work against Germany.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
Roberto & Ali,
I have now heard from both of you and wish to change my moves to be
consistent with a joint attack on France. If I get word from Italy that he
is attacking France, then I will immediately change my moves. I do not
know if Italy needs any reassurances from Turkey in order to reach this
decision, so I write both of you.
If MAO is dislodged, I will not retreat to North Africa.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
Ivy,
What moves would you like me to order this turn as a joint attack of France?
WMS s MAO-SPA will not succeed although it may prevent France from reaching
the MAO.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>What moves would you like me to order this turn as a joint attack of France?
>WMS s MAO-SPA will not succeed although it may prevent France from reaching
>the MAO.
I am resigned to losing MAO, but if France takes MAO from Spain, doesn't
that open up Spain for you?
Why not MAO->Spa(sc) & Ion->Tys?
If France gets MAO then you get Spain. I would protect MAO as best as
possible from NAO. Then he can't take MAO without using both Por &
Bre. That definately open up Spa for you. once France loses a unit, it is
all downhill for him.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Ok, I'm changing my orders with this press. Please make your own attack on
Bud. I am also counting on Tyr-Pie, and WMS-GOL (or whatever you and England
work out). Also, I need Gre-Bul, so I can bounce from either Con or Bla.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England and Italy
Gents,
> I have now heard from both of you and wish to change my moves to be
> consistent with a joint attack on France. If I get word from Italy that he
> is attacking France, then I will immediately change my moves. I do not
> know if Italy needs any reassurances from Turkey in order to reach this
> decision, so I write both of you.
Such reassurance is given. I look forward to our mutual success.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
I have informed Roberto that I am no longer attacking Bud. My change in
orders has been confirmed. Looks like we may be able to pull this off after
all.
Must be brief. Will write later.
Ali
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
>
>
> I am resigned to losing MAO, but if France takes MAO from
> Spain, doesn't that open up Spain for you?
>
Yes.
> Why not MAO->Spa(sc) & Ion->Tys?
>
I assume you meant WMS-spa(sc).
^^^
I'll have to ask Ali. Is is alright if I make this move and risk gaining 3
builds? I can always waive a build.
Roberto
btw, Ion would move to Tunis leaving the TYS open for my new fleet out of
Rome/Naples.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Of course, any strongly anti-French moves from you suit our joint
purpose. I just want an indication that you are doing this.
Getting excited,
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> I would protect MAO as best as possible from NAO.
>
Actually, if I am going to move WMS-Spa/sc, would it better if you allowed
France to move into the MAO? Then we can support you back in next spring
after he removes a unit.
Just a thought.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
> > Why not MAO->Spa(sc) & Ion->Tys?
> >
>
>I assume you meant WMS-spa(sc).
Yes, of course. Back to old habits.
>btw, Ion would move to Tunis leaving the TYS open for my new fleet out of
>Rome/Naples.
But the new fleet could still move to TYS next spring, because TYS would be
moving on to WES or LYO. However, I think Ion->Spa is only an advantage
to you if you do get Spain this turn.
As you see fit though.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Actually, if I am going to move WMS-Spa/sc, would it better if you allowed
>France to move into the MAO? Then we can support you back in next spring
>after he removes a unit.
Yes, if you know that France is attacking from Spain.
So, when (if?) you give me the word that you are going through with this,
please confirm that you want me to vacate MAO now.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
Must go eat.
I've changed my moves, although I would still like a final confirmation
from Roberto.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
>
> But the new fleet could still move to TYS next spring,
> because TYS would be moving on to WES or LYO.
>
I will take another look.
Ali, do you agree with Ivy's tactical analysis regarding my fleet move to
TUN or TYS?
> if you know that France is attacking from Spain.
I have been asked to order 'WMS s Spa/sc - MAO'. He's been honest with me
to date. I see no advantage to France to ask for this support if he doesn't
intend to use it.
> So, when (if?) you give me the word that you are going
> through with this, please confirm that you want me to
> vacate MAO now.
I will issue Tyr-Pie and WMS-Spa/sc pending no objection from Ali for my
potential 3rd build this year. I have no expectation to keep Spain next
year but would hope to exchange it for Marseilles if possible.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
I must confess I'm not comfortable with your gaining 3 while I risk staying
even. How would you feel about picking up Spa and Vie, while I take Bud and
Sev? That would be much safer for me, since I can self-bounce in Smy, Gre/Bla
self-bounce in Bul, and thereby we guarantee Austria's elimination.
If you agree, please let me know at once so I can change my orders.
Just for the record, regarding late diplomacy. I am normally quite picky
about sticking to the rules. In this case, since my orders are confirmed
without error, I feel I should be allowed to continue sending press after the
deadline. This is especially true due to the judge outages. It would be a
shame to see the game degraded due to technical problems.
Ali
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
> pending no objection from Ali for my
>potential 3rd build this year.
Why not go for 4 and hit Munich? 8-)
[Can you spell s-u-i-c-i-d-e ?]
Ivy
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> I must confess I'm not comfortable with your gaining 3 while
> I risk staying even.
>
Damn! Never should have asked for your permission. :)
> How would you feel about picking up Spa and Vie, while
> I take Bud and Sev?
>
That sounds fair. I'm reasonably sure I will reach Spain this fall. Even
if I don't, I'll still get a build and have reasonable chances next year to
catch up to you. Regardless, I've always considered Budapest Turkish and
haven't really felt completely comfortable taking it.
Just to recap:
Our orders will be:
vie s ser - bud
gre - bul/sc
tyr - pie
wms - spa/sc
ion - tys (your opinion on this is still asked if you have time)
tri sits and spins (previously we were bouncing in Serbia)
ser - bud
bul - rum
sev s bul - rum
bla - bul/ec
con - smy
arm - smy
I like those moves very much. Austria is eliminated, my Greece province is
clear of foreign units, and we've demilitarized quite nicely.
>
> If you agree, please let me know at once so I can change my orders.
>
Change them orders.
> Just for the record, regarding late diplomacy. I am normally
> quite picky about sticking to the rules.
>
As am I but I feel justified this time. If I had to enter my orders this
morning, the more cautious approach would have been taken and the game could
very well have been decidedly different in the end.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
ps: I will enter orders 30 minutes from sending this mail. Hopefull an hour
is enough time for you to change your orders. If you do so earlier, let me
know and I will enter orders immediately.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> Our orders will be:
>
> vie s ser - bud
> gre - bul/sc
> tyr - pie
> wms - spa/sc
> ion - tys (your opinion on this is still asked if you have time)
> tri sits and spins (previously we were bouncing in Serbia)
>
> ser - bud
> bul - rum
> sev s bul - rum
> bla - bul/ec
> con - smy
> arm - smy
Yes, absolutely. I am definitely in favor of moving to Tys, as it puts it
that much closer to Iberia. I would also propose Tri-Tyr; that would give us
an excellent offensive line, and maintains Italian influence in the center.
My orders are in as listed above.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
As I understand it, the EI plan is to allow France into MAO, thereby WMS into
Spa/sc. Roberto has agreed to support me to Bud, so he takes Spa, Vie and I
take Bud, Sev. So I would highly urge you to allow France to MAO =).
Fingers crossed,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> ser - bud
> bul - rum
> sev s bul - rum
> bla - bul/ec
> con - smy
> arm - smy
> ps: I will enter orders 30 minutes from sending this mail. Hopefull an hour
> is enough time for you to change your orders. If you do so earlier, let me
> know and I will enter orders immediately.
My orders are confirmed.
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I will issue Tyr-Pie and WMS-Spa/sc pending no objection from Ali for my
>potential 3rd build this year. I have no expectation to keep Spain next
>year but would hope to exchange it for Marseilles if possible.
I say let Italy take a shot with Wes->Spa. Whether he makes it or not, he
has started a war with France. That's good for both you and me. If he
succeeds, we will simply insist that he cool his heels for a while until
the situation evens out a little.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
MAO->IRI has been entered.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Duh, why don't I think of these things? Of course, Tri must hold, since Bud
will be dislodged.
Ali
Message from Italy to Turkey
Orders are in! Half hour to results.
I ordered:
vie s tri
tri s ser - bud
Roberto
Message from Master to all
Not sure if any of these emails are getting through . . .
I'm have extreme email difficulty with my usual conduit -- if you've sent
me any email in the last day or so, please send it directly to
dtmasse@us.ibm.com
I'm assuming we can process orders tonight?
Doug
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> dtmasse@us.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
> for game 'titleist' to Fri Aug 31 2001 23:30:00 EST.
>
All my guilt for negotiating after the deadline has be exorcised.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Master
Doug,
It just dawned on me that I never wrote you about this weekend. I will be
going out of town this evening, and will not be back until Monday evening
(Sept. 3). During that time, I will be out of e-mail contact. So, depending
on what happens in the fall move, i.e. assuming I have a build coming, I may
need an extension through Tuesday.
My sincere apologies for not mentioning this before, for some reason I thought
I had things all taken care of, then I realized I never sent the message.
Unfortunately, it looks like I won't even be able to see the fall result until
I get back. I've removed my wait, but it looks like others still have it set,
and I'll be gone when the new deadline comes.
Thanks,
- Jeff
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> > dtmasse@us.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
> > for game 'titleist' to Fri Aug 31 2001 23:30:00 EST.
Ack! I'm going out of town this evening, and will be gone until Monday
evening. I'll be out of e-mail contact that whole time. So I may not even
see the result until I get back. =/
> All my guilt for negotiating after the deadline has be exorcised.
Heh, indeed. I didn't think it would be an issue, what with the judge
outages.
Looks like all orders are in. Now if I could only get everyone to set no
wait....
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well, after that last-minute flurry of negotiations, all is quiet. I'll be
going out of town this evening, and will be gone through Monday evening. I'll
be out of e-mail contact during that time. So, I may not even see the results
until I get back. I've removed my wait, but it seems others still have it
set.
In any case, it seems we've got a good deal worked out. It would be nicer if
you were getting a build out of it, but at least Italy won't build three
(assuming he keeps his promise). Anyway, I'm sure you would share my delight
in seeing Italy take Spain.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Observer to Observer
Don't look if you don't want to know, but I think I've figured out
who the Russian is too, which has a cascade effect for me in figuring
out who the Frenchman is, which for me has me identifying 3/7 to a
high level of probability. Go check out this poll and have fun with
it if you can.
Jim-Bob
Message from Observer to Observer
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., burgess@w... wrote:
> Don't look if you don't want to know, but I think I've figured out
> who the Russian is too, which has a cascade effect for me in
figuring
> out who the Frenchman is, which for me has me identifying 3/7 to a
> high level of probability. Go check out this poll and have fun with
> it if you can.
Plus, everyone still needs to guess what the identity of the Austrian
in before he's eliminated -- otherwise, I won't say who he is.
Minimum number of votes needed: 10!
Arbitrarily yours,
Doug
Message from Turkey to all
To whom it may concern:
I have declared a national holiday throughout Turkey. As a result, the
Turkish diplomatic office will be closed as our people celebrate three days of
drunken debauchery, ah, that is to say, prayer and meditation.
Our diplomatic corps will resume their work in three days. Until then, may
Allah smile on you all.
Ali Baba
Austria: Fleet Aegean Sea → Smyrna (*bounce, dislodged*)
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Turkish Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*void, dislodged*)
England: Army Belgium SUPPORT Fleet Picardy (*cut*)
England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Irish Sea
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Army Belgium
England: Fleet Picardy SUPPORT Army Belgium (*cut, dislodged*)
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Army Paris → Picardy
France: Army Burgundy → Belgium (*bounce*)
France: Army Paris → Picardy
France: Fleet Portugal SUPPORT Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Germany: Fleet Baltic Sea → Denmark
Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Army Livonia → St Petersburg
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland
Germany: Army Livonia → St Petersburg (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Silesia → Munich
Germany: Army Silesia → Munich
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Aegean Sea
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Aegean Sea
Italy: Army Trieste → Serbia
Italy: Army Tyrolia → Trieste
Italy: Army Vienna SUPPORT Turkish Army Serbia → Budapest
Italy: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT French Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Livonia (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Livonia
Turkey: Army Armenia → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea → Bulgaria (east coast)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Serbia → Budapest
Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Bulgaria → Rumania (*cut*)
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