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Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> But Ali, how does E/G/I/T become E/I/T, especially when G is at 7 or 8 or 9
> centers? Answer: EI&T have to team up and take out Germany. And that
> leaves both Italian and Turkish units on "my" side of the classic east/west
> stalemate line.
>
> So my dilemma and your dilemma are the same. How do I get you back on your
> side of the stalemate line in the northeast while you gobble up Italy?
> Also, how do I help you gobble up Italy without crossing over to your side
> of the stalemate line in the Mediterrean?
Here is how I might approach this as England. I work overtime to make an
arrangement with Italy, with the first move being an Italian army entering
Marseilles. Italy then supports my fleet to Spa/nc. F (nc) does nothing to
threaten Italy, and since his support would have to specify the coast, it's
very safe for him. Then MAO S Spa-Por, leaving Spain for Italy (to be taken
with an army of course).
Meanwhile, I begin to harrass Germany, perhaps by attacking Holland or
Denmark. I encourage Turkey to keep Russia alive, so that I can make use of
his fleet. Russia and England have never been hostile, and neither threatens
the other; and Russia will be only too glad for an ally against the German.
Even if Russia is ultimately taken out by the Turk, having his fleet around
for a year or two is still helpful. And if Russia disbands the fleet and
rebuilds as an army, then that's all the more pressure Germany will have at
his back.
I don't expect much gain from Germany at first, but I can cause him lots of
grief with relative impunity. And whatever happens with Turkey and Russia,
*someone* will be there hitting him from the other side. After all, I've been
carefully nurturing my relationship with Turkey since the start of the game.
;^)
As France goes down to EI pressure, the gains from it give me new units that
first make a feint against the German homeland, then move to secure
Scandinavia. Once I've got fleets in Nth, Hel, Ska, then Scandinavia goes by
the numbers, especially if I can keep Germany from building a third fleet and
keep his armies off-balance. Meanwhile, I augment R/T pressure by guiding
Italy to Munich. Italy has already shown a lot of interest in the region, and
it would take little to convince him that Munich fits in with his plans to
control the center. I might support an Italian army through Burgundy, if I
can first secure Paris for myself.
While all this is taking place, I work on the angle that Turkey eventually has
to build fleets. This works to get Italian fleets pulled back from Gibraltar,
and gives Turkey further incentive to attack German centers to fuel the
shipyards for a surprise build. Once the IT conflict begins, it's pretty much
gravy. Having secured Scandinavia, I now take Germany proper, and either pump
armies into Russia or grab the rest of France and strike the Med. Probably
depends on whether Turkey or Italy is getting ahead in the south. The obvious
goal is to gain the 17 northern centers plus either Tunis, Warsaw or Moscow.
An alternative to this course would be to really shake things up and make a
peace with France. I start the same way, by coaxing an Italian army into
Marseilles. France will then do whatever is in France's best interest, and if
I simply sail away he's sure to let bygones be bygones (if he's a good player,
which I suspect he is) and attack Italy. That gives me lots of firepower
against Germany, and Scandinavia will be a cakewalk while France gets as
bogged down against Italy as he is against England now.
I take the same approach with building R/T pressure against Germany, except
under this scenario everything goes much faster in the east. Ultimately
Turkey runs out of room and attacks Italy. Just when France thinks he'll at
last get a piece of Italy, I strike him from behind with a crushing blow, and
this time there's nobody left to come to his rescue. Making peace with France
would take some diplomatic effort, and nobody likes to reverse a course after
devoting a lot of resources to it. But flexibility is the name of the game,
and if a course of action proves fruitless, the prudent man chooses another
path.
Obviously, these are both rosy scenarios. But I would certainly count both as
well within the realm of possibility.
> I want these problems! I would give anything to have these problems! Just
> get us there and we will work on them together! 8-)
I'm tryin, mate, I'm tryin. =)
> More seriously, how do we get Italy to work against Germany, when Italy can
> see from a mile away that he is likely to be caught between us afterwards?
See above. My hunch is that Italy sees control of the center as his ticket to
a solo. Work on that, and get him thinking thoughts of Munich. Make sure you
don't threaten him with your fleets, so that he feels he can handle any
Turkish surprise.
Meanwhile, I do my best to convince him there will be no Turkish surprise. If
he's peaceful with England and Turkey, he's less likely to attack either for
fear the other will strike from behind, and he'll be eager to bolster his
position in a way that helps protect him from both. Controlling the center
does that, as well as improving his chances of a successful game-winning stab
at the end.
See, under such a scenario as I describe above, my big unresolved problem is,
what happens when I attack Italy? Eventually I'll run out of room building
only armies, in which case conflict with Italy becomes inevitable. No matter
how I roll this around in my head, it comes out to your advantage.
> If we get there, and our problems are not resolvable, we always have the
> 14-14-6 option. The two 14s would be declared co-champs under Doug's
> rules. The spectators deserve something bloodier than this, but at lease
> we need to keep all options open.
Well, "keep your options open" is my motto. I fully expect to see some
serious efforts to take a solo in this game. So far I've been setting myself
up for a draw position, and I've been giving a lot of thought as to how to
break out of that. It all comes down to attacking Italy, and the timing is
everything.
I can't do it now, because I haven't secured my land position well enough yet.
If I do it too soon, I can't give a proper effort in Russia, and Germany
becomes dominant. If I do it too late, then you end up dominating the north
and IT both get consolation prizes, even in the event of a draw. "Just right"
would probably be if I can somehow gain War and Mos in the same turn, with Con
& Smy open for builds, but Italy's sure to see that coming a mile away and
could launch a pre-emptive strike.
Everyone has their own motivations. Sure, I'd love to come out of this game
with a solo, or with the title as part of a draw, or even a *share* of the
title as part of a draw. But the bottom line is, I want to survive the game,
and in the end I'll fight hard for even the bottom slot in a 3-way. Wouldn't
hurt my JDPR any. So far, my only focus has been to survive and be viable
going into the mid-game. I could still get a nasty surprise from Italy this
turn, but barring that, this early goal seems to have been accomplished. So
now it's time to start looking more to the horizon, so to speak.
I hope you don't mind my long-winded ramble. I enjoy the discussion, and I
find that the process of saying it all out loud can sometimes be quite
instructive.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Boy that move to the North Sea really has turned out to have hurt us
both quite a bit. There's actually four fleets working on the MAO now.
Plus I have to consider a supported attack on HOL and MUN. Add in that
there's no way that you can take Brest now. Yuck.
Before you ask, I'm not going to give up HOL. I started writing that
I'd do it if and only if you took it from the North Sea. That move in
itself seems reasonable. It's when you go further that problems creep
in. For instance, what would that fleet do after it takes HOL? There's
really only one possibility - it goes back into the North Sea.
- time goes by as I look at the board----
What we could do is have me support BEL to BUR this turn. That'll go as
Paris has to support Brest. That puts you in BUR, and HOL could move to
BEL next turn.
Or I could just leave you with HOL and take Norway. Although I
suspect that I'll have to send the army that's about to take STP, south.
Think these things over. I have to get outta here right now. One
question that I haven't addressed is what would you do with a build?
Your four fleets don't have a lot of room to operate anyway. Where would
another fleet go? Or if you built an army how would it get convoyed?
By a fleet in NTH? There we go again. One of my fleets could become
available. But you've seen what I think of having your fleet in NTH, I
imagine that you feel the same way.
Fredd
Message from France to England
Wingo:
I know that you will not receive this for some time. But
you must know that there is great joy in France. If
Germany had ordered Bur to Par, I would have lost Paris
and Brest this year. We have very very happy that he did
not. But you must also know that we find it amusing that
Germany did finally let you down, on a critical turn, as
we predicted. :-)
You are almost at the point where you must start over
with your attack on France. Your window of opportunity
for shifting gears towards Germany is closing rapidly. I
recommend that you consider that shift in gears now. You
can always work with Italy or Turkey later to take out
France. The time is no longer right for attempting it
now. We stand ready to join in with whomever first takes
action (England or Germany) against the other.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Master to all
Extension due to player absence, for one additional day.
Doug
Message from Russia to England
Ivy, Ivy, Ivy, (It had to be done.8-)
>Movement results for Spring of 1904. (titleist.013)
>
>England: Army Belgium SUPPORT Fleet English Channel -> Picardy.
>England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean.
>England: Fleet English Channel -> Picardy.
>England: Fleet North Sea -> English Channel. (*bounce*)
>England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean HOLD.
Interesting. At first glance, your moves look as
though you remain committed to the EG alliance, but I
find Bel S Eng-Pic, Nth-Eng, MAO HOLD intriguing, since
it leaves you positioned to stab Germany this Fall.
>France: Army Gascony -> Burgundy.
>France: Army Picardy SUPPORT German Army Burgundy -> Belgium. (*void,
>dislodged*)
>France: Fleet Portugal -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean. (*bounce*)
>France: Fleet Brest -> English Channel. (*bounce*)
>France: Fleet Marseilles -> Spain (south coast).
>
>Germany: Army Ruhr -> Kiel.
>Germany: Army Bohemia -> Silesia.
>Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Army Prussia -> Livonia.
>Germany: Fleet Livonia -> Baltic Sea.
>Germany: Army Burgundy -> Ruhr.
>Germany: Army Prussia -> Livonia.
I have to admit that I didn't expect this, though
now that I see it, it is rather obvious. I expected
Fredd to pull back in the East, and maintain pressure
on France, but doing so would have left him unable to
recapture Hol/Den had you stabbed, while this way, FG
is a real possibility, even though you didn't.
>Russia: Fleet StP/SC CONVOY English Army Belgium -> Berlin.
Can't blame me for trying. 8-) Now, the question
is, what do you and Fredd do at this point? Obviously,
you can protest your innocence, and hope that Germany
will continue with you, but his retreat will cost you
at least a year, and perhaps more, since France could
dislodge your Fleet in MAO this Fall.
Will Germany look at your moves, and decide that
he misjudged you, and realign himself with you, or
will he look at the map, and see that unless he covers
Den and Hol, you could STILL stab for two? If he covers,
then what? Will it occur to him that he's now in a
position to build a Fleet and attack you with French
help? I don't envy you your position, but I did try
to warn you of the dangers you faced. If you'd care to
discuss the future, I'm at your service.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Uh-oh! Did you lose your German friend? Looks from here like he expected
>you to stab him.
What a fine kettle of fish we have here, Ollie!
Germany was trying to have his cake and eat it too. He told me in advance
that he would have to defend against a possible stab, even though he
believed that I was not going to stab. He insisted that we would continue
to attack France once he was confident he was secure. He really wanted to
have it both ways: retain my trust in him, while preparing for a possible
stab himself. I was not able to persuade him to continue the assault on
France without making those "defensive" moves. I ha hoped for something
better, but it was not to be.
If this were a no press game, I would expect Germany to switch sides now
and join forces with France. I am not sure what he will actually do under
the influence of diplomacy from all around the world.
Certainly, I do not like my position very much right now, and if I were you
I wouldn't like the Italian position much either. You were soon going to
be able to pick up Spain and Marseilles. Now, if Germany switches sides,
that looks more distant, and Turkey looms larger every moment.
So here is what I want you to do. Think very hard about what is best for
Italy and I will do my best to cooperate. I am assuming that the choices
are between (1) trying to persuade Germany to participate in a 3-way attack
on France. That still could proceed fairly quickly if Germany were with
us. Or (2) get France to join us in attacking Germany. What makes me most
nervous in all of this is that Turkey is not going to be idle. I guess
there is a third possibility. You may end up, willingly or otherwise, in
a war with Turkey. In that case I could be caught between France and
Germany. That's the way it goes sometimes.
This is my first note after getting back. Think hard about your situation
and get back to me as soon as possible.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
Just got back, and I have to be brief. I should have more time tomorrow.
Most of this will be off-the-cuff reactions to your notes.
>OK Ivy, I am dying to know. What was the set of orders
>that would have guaranteed you a build. I have not found
>them. But now that it does not matter, could you show
>them to me?
I don't have time to try to reconstruct, but I think it involved Bel->Pic
with the help of Germany, so that I could hold the Channel and MAO. In the
fall I would have then gotten Brest using cuts of support from MAO and
Burgundy.
>PS: You are actually the master diplomat, not me. I
>could not convince Italy to do what I wanted,
I was almost certain that I had this minor victory.
>just as you had trouble with Germany.
Just as I was almost certain that I had this major diplomatic loss.
The net result favors you and your diplomacy greatly.
> But you must know that there is great joy in France.
I can hear the shouting.
> we find it amusing that
>Germany did finally let you down, on a critical turn, as
>we predicted. :-)
Sooner or later in an alliance, someone lets his partner down. The trick
is ... well, you know what the trick is.
>Your window of opportunity
>for shifting gears towards Germany is closing rapidly.
I will consider it. First, I need some sleep.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Freddy,
What a fine kettle of fish we have here, Ollie!
> Boy that move to the North Sea really has turned out to have hurt us
>both quite a bit.
But at least you kept your word. That was very important to you.
>Plus I have to consider a supported attack on HOL and MUN. Add in that
>there's no way that you can take Brest now. Yuck.
There is no hesitation in my reaction. I am not going to turn against you.
I will not attack Holland and I will not attack Denmark. Never, never
intended to do anything like that. I am in this to the end. There is no
other course of action that makes sense to me in the long run.
>What we could do is have me support BEL to BUR this turn. That'll go as
>Paris has to support Brest. That puts you in BUR, and HOL could move to
>BEL next turn.
It is a little premature to know what to do. If for some reason you don't
trust me (my reassuring words last time didn't have much effect) then you
will want Ruhr to influence Holland. Or you may want Ruhr to affect
Munich. We need some intelligence. I don't think I will get anything out
of France, but Italy has always been very forthcoming with me. There is a
good chance I will get his actual moves (again), provided I take the right
approach.
> Or I could just leave you with HOL and take Norway. Although I
>suspect that I'll have to send the army that's about to take STP, south.
No matter what yur western plans, you have to be concerned about the vast
armies that Turkey is raising.
Most of the world may assume that you are about to join with France in an
attack on me. Surely you will consider it. Be a little careful. France
and Italy are not tight at all, and France now knows it. Italy refused to
support a French attack in MAO last turn. Italy wants Spain and Marseilles
and a dead France to prepare for his upcoming war against Turkey. It is
not France and Italy who are together, but France and Turkey are chummy.
Give a lot of thought to continuing an FIE assault on France. Talk Italy
into Tyrolia->Piedmont, for example. If Italy cannot be convinced that he
should stay the course (against France), then he will unite with France and
go after Munich while trying to get you and me to squabble.
Italy is key here. He knows he cannot be anti England. He has to choose
between hitting you with French help or hitting France with our help.
I just got home. More tomorrow probably.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
> Most of the world may assume that you are about to join with
> France in an attack on me. Surely you will consider it.
They'd be wrong. The advantages of joining France over you are?.....
But of course I considered it. Which is why I'm not going to do that. I
don't see any advantage. I do see a couple of disadvantages. The main
one being that I'd have to start building fleets. What good are fleets
going to be against Italy or Turkey? Not much. They're be good against
you, and then against France. They'd leave me weaker on the Russian
Steppes
Fredd
Message from France to England
Wingo:
I know that you must have been swamped upon your return
and that you had plenty to deal with. France appreciates
that you would take the time to write us, an enemy, back.
We hope that you have recovered and slept enough.
We still do hope to continue the discussion on those
orders which would have guaranteed Brest. If we could
have had Italy support action into the MAO, I do not
think that there was a guaranteed set. Even without that
support, I think that France could have guessed correctly
no matter what you ordered. I am not saying that we
would have, just that we could have.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to France
>I know that you must have been swamped upon your return
>and that you had plenty to deal with.
Yes, and now a day of USIN blackout when I had hoped to be communicating.
Now that your e-mail has gotten through I hope USIN will see fit to grind
out some more. I don't know when you wrote the note that I got (it was
delivered 7:16pm eastern), but I believe that I still haven't received
confirmation from all that I wrote early this morning.
>We still do hope to continue the discussion on those
>orders which would have guaranteed Brest. If we could
>have had Italy support action into the MAO, I do not
>think that there was a guaranteed set.
OK. I looked at the board again, and I concede that Brest was less certain
than I thought. I would have needed Bel->Pic to have succeeded with the
support of Eng & Bur. I considered it highly unlikely that you would have
stopped that, but in fact you did hit both Eng & Bur with your moves! Had
that succeded, then Eng s Pic->Brest does the job with appropriate cuts
from MAO & Burgundy. At least I knew that MAO was safe.
Ivy
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Here is how I might approach this as England.
We got home yesterday evening. I put your analysis under my pillow and
slept on it. It was frustrating not to be able to communicate effectively
today, but I think that USIN is back in order.
Now you see what I meant when I said that I was having difficulty with
Germany. His moves were expected, although I held out hope for something
better. Clearly, he is giving himself some options, not all of which are
favorable to me.
In the meantime, you have a wonderful position. The only way to mess it up
would be to get a couple of units ahead of everyone else and provoke a
"stop Turkey" alliance.
>I hope you don't mind my long-winded ramble. I enjoy the discussion, and I
>find that the process of saying it all out loud can sometimes be quite
>instructive.
No, I don't mind it. I know you are feeling pretty good right now. And I
did find it helpful.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Ivy, Ivy, Ivy, (It had to be done.8-)
What a fine kettle of fish we have here, Ollie!
>Now, the question
>is, what do you and Fredd do at this point?
I don't know. Germany's moves were expected, but I held out hope for
something better. Communications today have been disrupted by good old
USIN. I will have to do some quick thinking tomorrow.
>Obviously, you can protest your innocence,
For I AM innocent. That's my style. Remember that if we get in a
non-anonymous game some day.
> Will Germany look at your moves, and decide that
>he misjudged you, and realign himself with you,
Perhaps he will. The alternative is to build fleets and attack me, fleets
that will be useless against Turkey. Or he can let France build the fleets
and then be defenseless against France.
>will he look at the map, and see that unless he covers
>Den and Hol, you could STILL stab for two?
He will do some covering no matter what, of course.
Sigh.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Have you come up with a suggested plan of action yet?
What I see is this.
You're going to get ejected from the MAO. (Unless Italy supports you to
Spain) Why would he do that? If he did that, you'd be stronger with
France weaker. Barring a stab I'll build one. (an army BTW) It could be
that Italy would like to see a stronger England to counter me. At
least that's the tack that I'd use to encourage him to help you.
You also could be pushed out of PIC.
BUR-PIC
BRE s BUR-PIC
PAR s BRE
Or France could attack MUN.
I'm willing to trust you a little. I can support BEL-BUR if you want.
That will leave me open to a supported attack on HOL. You've said that
you're not going to attack there, and I'm going to believe you. (I
reserve the right to move KIE-HOL anyway. I also reserve the right NOT
to move KIE-HOL.
Certainly I'll cover MUN. Whether with or without support.
I return I'd like you to get out of the North Sea. Belgium would be a
good place to go. Or the Channel.
Or I'll listen to any other thoughts or ideas that you might have.
Fredd
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> In the meantime, you have a wonderful position. The only way to mess it
up
> would be to get a couple of units ahead of everyone else and provoke a
> "stop Turkey" alliance.
Not much fear of that. Italy has not yet replied yea or nay to my request
for Bud. If he does give it, then I fully intend to vacate Sev. If not,
then I still might, depending on your viewpoint.
> No, I don't mind it. I know you are feeling pretty good right now. And I
> did find it helpful.
I really didn't mean to come off that way. I began my reply several times,
trying to write an analysis from an "objective" point of view. After
rewriting it 3 or 4 times, I found that I could not help but work some
Turkish angle into it somehow. Hey, old habits die hard. Anyway, in the
end I tried approaching it from just an English perspective, and I found my
train of thought came much more naturally.
The reason my decision on Sev depends on your input is this. Italy may or
may not agree to support me to Bud. If he does not, then I suspect that IT
conflict may come sooner rather than later. If that happens to coincide
with the introduction of EG conflict, then I think we would both clearly be
better off if we can use Russia to our advantage. Or, Italy may promise the
support, but then take Bud for himself, and I must be prepared for that
eventuality.
But mostly, I need to decide what to do if Italy simply refuses, urging me
instead to just hold onto Sev. In that case, it might still be wisest to
vacate Sev to Russia, even if it means not having a build. It all depends
on questions I can't answer: namely, what would happen in France then, and
what will happen between E/G. So, any advice you could give regarding these
considerations would be most greatly appreciated.
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I thought that you should be aware of this. I just sent a message to
Italy and Turkey individually. I asked each of them if I should ally
with you or France. Strickly based on strategy. I'd be interested in
knowing how fast one of them spills the beans to you that "I'm looking
at switching alliances."
The reality is that I intend to stick with you. I, for one, see no
strategic advantage in stabbing you. However, I'd really like to see
Italy and Turkey fighting. (and I suspect that would benefit you also)
If they think that the EG juggernaut rolls on, then they could stay
together. If they think that we're breaking up, maybe we'll see some
sparks fly.
Fredd
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >Obviously, you can protest your innocence,
>
>For I AM innocent. That's my style. Remember that if we get in a
>non-anonymous game some day.
I appreciate your feelings, but there are times
when a stab is the right thing to do, and it seems
to me that this Spring was the right time for you to
stab Germany.
> > Will Germany look at your moves, and decide that
> >he misjudged you, and realign himself with you,
>
>Perhaps he will. The alternative is to build fleets and attack me, fleets
>that will be useless against Turkey.
Were I to lay odds, I'd say Turkey is likely to
be busy defending against Italy next year, and in no
position to attack Germany, so Fredd could well have
a free hand against you.
>Or he can let France build the fleets and then be defenseless against
>France.
Of course, if Italy doesn't attack France, he'll
attack France.
> >will he look at the map, and see that unless he covers
> >Den and Hol, you could STILL stab for two?
>
>He will do some covering no matter what, of course.
I expect you're right, and then you face the
problem of the defense against the stab becoming the
groundwork for a stab. It seems to me that you HAVE
to reevaluate your game-plan, at this point, if you
want to survive. (I ought to know, I've done enough
of that, so far. ;-)
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
As you ponder pulling back from your attack on France, I
suggest MAO -> Eng, NAO -> NwS, Pic -> Bel, Bel ->?
or Pic -> Eng, MAO -> NAO, NAO -> Iri, Bel hold?
As I stated, I am willing to join in with whomever acts
first, you or Germany. Germany is already in the lead
due to his pull out of France.
How are things going between you and Germany? Did you
have a few words with him? :-)
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Russia to England
>Message from Russia to England in 'titleist':
I mis-spoke >
> Of course, if Italy doesn't attack France, he'll attack France.
Too early in the morning.... Obviously, that
should be if Italy doesn't attack Tukey, he'll attack
France.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Master to all
Extension to Wednesday evening, due to judge outage.
Doug
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Not much fear of that. Italy has not yet replied yea or nay to my request
>for Bud.
Has he replied at all?? I need to hear from Italy most of all right now,
and I have not heard a word from him. Is he talking to you?
>If he does give it, then I fully intend to vacate Sev. If not,
>then I still might, depending on your viewpoint.
I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
on his intentions in the west.
>The reason my decision on Sev depends on your input is this. Italy may or
>may not agree to support me to Bud. If he does not, then I suspect that IT
>conflict may come sooner rather than later. If that happens to coincide
>with the introduction of EG conflict, then I think we would both clearly be
>better off if we can use Russia to our advantage. Or, Italy may promise the
>support, but then take Bud for himself, and I must be prepared for that
>eventuality.
Italy has never mislead me, so when he does reply I may have some
information that could help us both.
>But mostly, I need to decide what to do if Italy simply refuses, urging me
>instead to just hold onto Sev. In that case, it might still be wisest to
>vacate Sev to Russia, even if it means not having a build. It all depends
>on questions I can't answer: namely, what would happen in France then, and
>what will happen between E/G. So, any advice you could give regarding these
>considerations would be most greatly appreciated.
Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
any deadline for your decisions?
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> > >Obviously, you can protest your innocence,
> >
> >For I AM innocent. That's my style. Remember that if we get in a
> >non-anonymous game some day.
>
> I appreciate your feelings, but there are times
>when a stab is the right thing to do, and it seems
>to me that this Spring was the right time for you to
>stab Germany.
We all have been successful with our own styles. That's why we are here.
> Were I to lay odds, I'd say Turkey is likely to
>be busy defending against Italy next year, and in no
>position to attack Germany, so Fredd could well have
>a free hand against you.
Turkey is trying to decide whether or not to give you Sevastopol. If he
gets Budapest with Italian help, you will surely get Sevastopol. If Italy
prefers not to grant Budapest to Turkey, then Turkey may, or may not, give
you Sevastopol. Turkey wants my advice.
What is missing in all of this seems to be Italy. I have not heard from
Italy, and I need information from him most of all. Is Italy talking to you?
Your next note:
>Too early in the morning.... Obviously, that
>should be if Italy doesn't attack Tukey, he'll attack
>France.
By noon I bet that you will even be able to spell "Turkey" ! 8-)
Hmmm. Why didn't you include the possibility of Italy attacking Germany?
Anyway, the big question is this: have you heard from Italy?
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to France
>How are things going between you and Germany? Did you
>have a few words with him? :-)
Nah. I am a very even-tempered person (like you apparently). I just
smiled at him and kept talking.
As nearly as I can tell, USIN has delivered some e-mail and has now shut
down again. I am sending this anyway, but I have become very frustrated
with my inability to communicate back and forth with anyone.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>Have you come up with a suggested plan of action yet?
No. I have not heard yet from Italy. Has he written to you?
I don't even know when you will receive this message. It is 9:00 am now,
but I think USIN is once again down. Very frustrating.
> What I see is this.
>You're going to get ejected from the MAO. (Unless Italy supports you to
>Spain) Why would he do that? If he did that, you'd be stronger with
>France weaker.
That's what Italy wanted before the last moves. He wanted France weaker so
he could grab Marseilles and Spain. He may reconsider now that the EG
attack on France has been weakened.
>Or France could attack MUN.
Or Italy could. Or both.
>I'm willing to trust you a little.
A little. 8-)
I think that what you did last turn set us back much further than my move
to the North Sea. But I just shrug my shoulders, smile, and
continue. That's the way that I am. EG still makes the most sense to me,
and I have always profited in the past by sticking to a game plan. We all
have our styles, and we all have been successful with our styles.
> I can support BEL-BUR if you want.
Until I hear from Italy, I am not sure what to do. Bel supp Pic may be the
preferred alternative.
>I return I'd like you to get out of the North Sea. Belgium would be a
>good place to go. Or the Channel.
Belgium would probably bounce, unless Bel->Bur has succeeded. But that
probably means that France will have gotten into Picardy, so Picardy would
retreat to Channel.
Anyway, I do understand the reason behind your request. I will try, once
again, to move Nth south.
Are you aware that Turkey is supposed to give Sevastopol to Russia this
fall? Russia is not dead. Expect Russia to move War->Mos and Ukr->Sev.
This is actually good news for you. It suggests that Turkey will go after
Italy and leave Russia to harass you. Being harassed by Russia is far
better than having TI coming after you in force. I agree that you need
another army. Your southeast by far your most vulnerable spot. There is
some obvious self-serving in this, but I do think it is best that you take
StP with a fleet. Your army will remain one step closer to where it is
going to be sorely needed.
More later. I can communicate up to the last minute today, if only USIN
cooperates. It seems to be down again. If it stays down again for most
of the day, I may have to ask Doug for another one-day extension.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
One more thing. Did you ever get the following message? I received an
e-mail saying that it was undeliverable -- obviously due to USIN problems.
Ivy
***************
Fredd,
>But of course I considered it. Which is why I'm not going to do that. I
>don't see any advantage. I do see a couple of disadvantages. The main
>one being that I'd have to start building fleets. What good are fleets
>going to be against Italy or Turkey? Not much. They're be good against
>you, and then against France. They'd leave me weaker on the Russian
>Steppes
I hadn't even thought of that, but then I have been totally out of it for
several days now.
I wrote Italy. He is still the key. That one army. There is a world of
difference between Tyrolia->Munich and Tyrolia->Piedmont.
Once I here from him I will try to put together some moves and we can
communicate in more detail.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Wingo:
>At least I knew that MAO was safe.
The original plan for my defense was to take the MAO.
But Italy would not help me do so. He said that you had
poisoned him and were withholding the antidote if he
supported me thus. A very nice ploy on your part. Was
the poison a bluff? He may never know. He will just
simply avoid English Beer now, like the rest of us.
Le DAUPHIN
Message [from Russia] to all
"Testing, testing, 1, 2, 3... " (*THONK*) (The sound of a microphone being
tapped.) "I know you're out there, I can hear you breathing..."
Message from Germany to England
No I never got that one.
............................
> One more thing. Did you ever get the following message? I received
> an e-mail saying that it was undeliverable -- obviously due to USIN
> problems.
>
> Ivy
>
> ***************
>
> Fredd,
>
> >But of course I considered it. Which is why I'm not going to do that. I
> >don't see any advantage. I do see a couple of disadvantages. The main
> >one being that I'd have to start building fleets. What good are fleets
> >going to be against Italy or Turkey? Not much. They're be good against
> >you, and then against France. They'd leave me weaker on the Russian
> >Steppes
>
> I hadn't even thought of that, but then I have been totally out of it for
> several days now.
>
> I wrote Italy. He is still the key. That one army. There is a world of
> difference between Tyrolia->Munich and Tyrolia->Piedmont.
>
> Once I here from him I will try to put together some moves and we can
> communicate in more detail.
>
> Ivy
Message from Germany to England
> No. I have not heard yet from Italy. Has he written to you?
One short note. No substance.
> I think that what you did last turn set us back much further than
> my move to the North Sea.
Excuse me while I beat my dead horse. 'But I wouldn't have made my move
if you hadn't gone to the North Sea.' The horse is sufficiently dead
now I should think. Let's move on.
> Are you aware that Turkey is supposed to give Sevastopol to Russia
> this fall? Russia is not dead. Expect Russia to move War->Mos
> and Ukr->Sev.
Interesting. I hadn't heard that. It does make sense though doesn't
it. I and R announced the 'juggernaut' a long time ago. It just hasn't
been strong enough to get any attention. Plus Turkey has told me at
least twice that he's starting a ground campaign against southern
Russia. I wonder if this means that Turkey is the one that is supposed
to get VIE? Hence T, I, and R all build one. An interesting trio.
(turkey behind both - that'll never last)
I've been planning on Russia disbanding that fleet, finally. I guess
this means that it could still hang around. This means that I'd best
take STP with the army. Keeping the fleet to counter Russia's fleet
retreat.
I have no designs on taking Norway before you're ready.
Fredd
Message from France to England
Wingo:
>Nah. I am a very even-tempered person
>(like you apparently).
Ah, I think that you are much better than I. I do have a
temper. I took your betrayal quite badly. Do you
remember my calling you an eel-faced slug? I guess that
was not very nice of me.
Hmmm, now that I think about it, I probably did not say
that to your face or in a note, only to Prince Boar and
my sister. Uh, forget that I mentioned it! ;-) I guess
that you did call me fishy, so we are even :-)
At any rate, how are you coming with the decision to
withdraw from your foolish attack on France. I suppose
that there is little for us to negotiate on the topic.
You will either withdraw or you will not. We do not have
to coordinate your withdrawal. I am not likely to risk
my position until you have actually withdrawn. As I have
stated before, my defense of France will not hurt you if
you do withdraw. I will just muck around in my own land.
Therefore, just do it and you need not worry about it
hurting your position.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
> >At least I knew that MAO was safe.
>The original plan for my defense was to take the MAO.
>But Italy would not help me do so.
Italy has been very open with me. He wanted to support you to restrain the
EG alliance. At the same time he admitted that he wanted southern French
centers for himself -- as soon as he could get there with two fleets. His
compromise was to limit his support to the Mediterranean and not to get
involved in anything beyond Gibraltar.
>At any rate, how are you coming with the decision to
>withdraw from your foolish attack on France. I suppose
>that there is little for us to negotiate on the topic.
>You will either withdraw or you will not.
Yes, I agree completely with these statements.
Most cordially,
the slug
Message from Master to all
Extending the deadline one more day, now that USIN seems to be back
with us for good.
Doug
Message from England to Germany
> > Are you aware that Turkey is supposed to give Sevastopol to Russia
> > this fall? Russia is not dead. Expect Russia to move War->Mos
> > and Ukr->Sev.
>
>Interesting. I hadn't heard that. It does make sense though doesn't
>it. I and R announced the 'juggernaut' a long time ago. It just hasn't
>been strong enough to get any attention. Plus Turkey has told me at
>least twice that he's starting a ground campaign against southern
>Russia. I wonder if this means that Turkey is the one that is supposed
>to get VIE? Hence T, I, and R all build one. An interesting trio.
>(turkey behind both - that'll never last)
No, it will never last. Turkey will choose between attacking Russia or
Italy. I think that what he does in Sevastopol will tell us which.
Still no word from Italy. What is this guy up to? I can't think of any
good reason why he doesn't want to communicate with me.
It has gotten to the point where I must make plans without his input. So,
here goes (but stay tuned later in the day).
First, do not support Belgium to Burgundy. My gut feeling is that, in the
final analysis, you will want Ruhr to defend Holland or Munich. I am
leaning toward NAO s MAO; MAO s Nth->Eng; Pic s Nth-Eng; Bel s Pic.
To be honest I also have to at least consider Nth s Bel. I know this could
really mess us up. I don't think you would help France gain ascendancy in
the Atlantic. In attacking France my fleets are drawn to the south. But
if France attacks me (with your help) his fleets are drawn to the
north. In the aftermath there is a big difference in the position of
Atlantic fleets.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
You sure know how to make a guy nervous.
No one on this planet wants to help you more than I do right now. You want
to attack Germany? Fine, count me in. You still want to attack
France? Fine, count me in. In both cases, we need a little time to say
the right things to France and Germany.
You want to pull out of the west altogether? Then it is to your advantage
to let me know, for in that case I may be trapped between France and
Germany by myself and you will want me to survive as long as possible.
Now, about your problem with Turkey. He told me that he is considering
letting Russia have Sevastopol, provided you give him Budapest. He said
that if you don't give him Budapest, then he may still give Sevastopol to
Russia. He wants my advice. Clearly he has to decide between attacking
you or Russia next.
Back to your western choice. You might consider working with France to
take Munich, although France may still be disappointed with you lack of
support in MAO last turn. Germany cannot save both Holland and Munich.
A totally different possibility is Wes s MAO->spa(nc) with Tyr->Pie,
Ion->Tys. This is your best shot at getting French centers next
year. These moves could be combined with helping Turkey into Budapest to
keep him happy and insure that the Austrian fleet vanishes.
Lot's of choices & I want to help.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> > >For I AM innocent. That's my style.
>
> > I appreciate your feelings, but there are times
> >when a stab is the right thing to do, and it seems
> >to me that this Spring was the right time for you to
> >stab Germany.
>
>We all have been successful with our own styles. That's why we are here.
I'm not trying to change your style. I suspect
that our styles are very similar, in fact, but I try
to consider the board separately from my perceptions
of a player's style. Your F1903 moves looked like a
stab setup to me, and would to any German, so I knew
that Fredd would react the way he did. If you weren't
planning to stab, why did you move Lon-Nth, Iri-Eng
last Fall? As I saw it, once you made that move, you
were in a stab or be stabbed position.
>Turkey wants my advice.
Tell him to give me Sev. ;-)
>Is Italy talking to you?
I finally got a note from him in the 8/28-8/29
group.
>By noon I bet that you will even be able to spell "Turkey" ! 8-)
I can spell Turkey, I just can't type. ;-)
>Why didn't you include the possibility of Italy attacking Germany?
For Italy to attack Germany, he'd have to take
Bud and Boh, and that would seal off Turkey's only
avenue for growth within the alliance structure. If
Italy takes Bud, attacking Turkey makes more sense,
than turning his back on him to attack Germany, I
think.
>have you heard from Italy?
Yes, he claims to be supporting France, and
Turkey's claim to Bud, and my claim to Sev.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> Has he replied at all?? I need to hear from Italy most of all right now,
> and I have not heard a word from him. Is he talking to you?
I did finally hear from him, delayed of course by the judge outage. He said
he favors supporting me to Bud, so my orders at present are to vacate Sev.
> I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
> on his intentions in the west.
Hopefully you'll hear from him soon. I have suggested that he move Ion-WMS,
WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie to set up attacks on France next year.
> Italy has never mislead me, so when he does reply I may have some
> information that could help us both.
Any info at all would be most helpful. I, of course, promise to return the
favor in kind.
> Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
> any deadline for your decisions?
Not really, other than the game deadline tomorrow (Thursday) night.
Germany has written to both me and Italy with the question, would Germany be
better off with a French or English ally, from a purely tactical point of
view. I am of course encouraging him to stick with England. However, I take
it as a sign that he is at least considering abandoning the EG alliance.
There are two ramifications to this. First is that it increases my desire to
keep Russia alive, which should help England, and therefore hurt Germany and
France. Also, I've turned up the heat on urging Italy to work with you
against France.
Naturally, it's imperative that France not be allowed to build. At this
point, I wouldn't rule out FG cooperation, and therefor I would urge you to
use Nth to support Belgium.
I'll write at once if I receive any news, and I hope you'll do the same.
Regards,
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I did finally hear from him, delayed of course by the judge outage. He said
>he favors supporting me to Bud, so my orders at present are to vacate Sev.
>
> > I hope to offer an opinion, but I do need to get some indication from Italy
> > on his intentions in the west.
>
>Hopefully you'll hear from him soon. I have suggested that he move Ion-WMS,
>WMS-GOL, Tyr-Pie to set up attacks on France next year.
I have not heard from Italy at all. My best guess is that he is trying to
make up his mind before contacting me. Frankly, at this point, any wise
Italy would have to view Turkish advice with suspicion. Why would you give
Sev to Russia? Wouldn't that mean you were about to attack Italy? Perhaps
not, but any explanation you hand Italy would viewed with suspicion as well.
> Stay tuned. I can communicate until the last minute today. Do you have
> > any deadline for your decisions?
>
>Not really, other than the game deadline tomorrow (Thursday) night.
I wrote that when I thought the deadline was going to be Tuesday night.
>Germany has written to both me and Italy with the question, would Germany be
>better off with a French or English ally, from a purely tactical point of
>view. I am of course encouraging him to stick with England. However, I take
>it as a sign that he is at least considering abandoning the EG alliance.
I have no doubt of this. My oddsmaker gives 3-2 in favor of Germany
switching sides.
>There are two ramifications to this. First is that it increases my desire to
>keep Russia alive, which should help England, and therefore hurt Germany and
>France. Also, I've turned up the heat on urging Italy to work with you
>against France.
Say your advice is followed. Italy attacks France. Russia goes for
Germany. What in the world will you be doing?
In 95% of the games you could just plow forward in any direction now and
win. The rest of the world is in disarray. But you have a problem (wish I
had this problem). If you show signs of dominating, you run the risk of a
stop-Turkey movement. With these players it is almost certain.
>I'll write at once if I receive any news, and I hope you'll do the same.
Ditto. Italy, when he has written in the past, has always been honest with me.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> I have not heard from Italy at all. My best guess is that he is trying to
> make up his mind before contacting me. Frankly, at this point, any wise
> Italy would have to view Turkish advice with suspicion. Why would you give
> Sev to Russia? Wouldn't that mean you were about to attack Italy? Perhaps
> not, but any explanation you hand Italy would viewed with suspicion as well.
Here are the arguments I've made to Roberto.
One, it's very important to me that he and I continue to gain one build
apiece, so I'm not comfortable with his building two, and likewise I don't
expect him to be comfortable with me building two (nor am I really comfortable
with that myself). I've made a big deal about even size & even growth with
Italy, right from the start.
Two, if an FG emerges, it's going to be to both our advantages if England is
strong. England's position is strenthened if Russia is alive to bother
Germany. If Turkey defeats Russia, then Turkey could pressure Germany too;
but not for a year or two at best. A stronger England, and EI cooperation,
make it that much easier for Italy to make gains against France. And an
anti-German Russia would likely be out of position for a Turkish stab later on
anyway.
Conversely, if I go anti-Russian now, and FG emerges, the result is entirely
pro-German, which helps France, which hurts Italy.
> Say your advice is followed. Italy attacks France. Russia goes for
> Germany. What in the world will you be doing?
Recovering my position and getting ready for the Next Big Thing. Assuming I
gain a build this year, I may also have two home centers blocked by Turkish
armies (assuming unwanted support from Aeg). So, most likely I'll need next
year just to get my armies out of Turkey, and in position to respond to
whatever next year brings.
The point is that my attacking Russia now would likely impact the situation in
the West. Since I do not know what that situation will be, I'm hesitant to do
it. Furthermore, my best guess is that it would impact the west in a way I'd
rather not see. If the next turn or two indicates that I'm best off attacking
Russia, I can do it then. If not, then that's one bridge I'll be glad I
didn't burn.
> In 95% of the games you could just plow forward in any direction now and
> win. The rest of the world is in disarray. But you have a problem (wish I
> had this problem). If you show signs of dominating, you run the risk of a
> stop-Turkey movement. With these players it is almost certain.
Almost certain, yes. And hence my strong desire for even IT growth. I don't
want Roberto to start having concerns that I'll outpace him. Indeed, such a
concern may well prevent him from supporting me to Bud in the first place.
And indeed, if I made gains against Russia while he got stalled in France, I
would most likely agree to swap centers in Austria for the sake of stability.
None of which really gives me any long-term solo prospects. But in this game,
I expect less-than-average stability in terms of long-lasting alliances, which
means it's that much harder to envision the board two or three years hence.
As a result, I've tended to take more of a short-term approach than I normally
do, as I mentioned before. Right at this moment, my primary focus is on
stability and flexibility.
Russia claims he's been offering you anti-German cooperation since your move
to Nth. If that's true, then I hope you can at least start the ball rolling.
If EG holds together, then nothing will have been lost. If not, then you've
at least got the icebreaking out of the way and can get down to business. And
even if I end up hitting Russia down the road, a year or two of Russian
efforts against Germany would, I think, be well worthwhile.
In any case, you've not said anything pro or con yet about keeping Russia
alive. I guess there is still a small chance that I might go anti-Russian
this turn, depending on how discussions go with Russia and Italy (and you).
So if you had to vote, would you vote in favor of my propping up Russia or
attacking him?
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
The theory is that I should be more comfortable with this, since it will
mean he has an enemy in France. I get the impression he'll support me to
Bud if I request it; but in that case, would not make any overtly
anti-French moves at this time.
Much of my reasoning in pursuing this approach surrounds the impact on
England and Germany should I attack Russia. That being the case, I'm hoping
for some English perspective. Lacking that, I may go anti-Russian after
all, although it feels like an appeasement of Italy. Still, if it does send
Roberto toward France's coast, it might be worthwhile.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
The theory is that I should be more comfortable with this, since it will
mean he has an enemy in France. I get the impression he'll support me to
Bud if I request it; but in that case, would not make any overtly
anti-French moves at this time.
Much of my reasoning in pursuing this approach surrounds the impact on
England and Germany should I attack Russia. That being the case, I'm hoping
for some English perspective. Lacking that, I may go anti-Russian after
all, although it feels like an appeasement of Italy. Still, if it does send
Roberto toward France's coast, it might be worthwhile.
Regards,
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>Well here's another new wrinkle to add to the equation. Roberto now tells
>me that he would favor my anti-French suggestions (Tyr-Pie, Wms-Gol,
>Ion-Wms) *if* he can take Bud and build 2 fleets.
[You and Italy have noticed, haven't you, that Ion cannot move to Wms?]
I have given the current situation a lot of thought and have come to the
rather predictable conclusion that I do want Italy to attack France. Prior
to getting your last e-mail I was preparing to send you a message inquiring
precisely about the possibility that you just outlined -- Italy gets
Budapest while you go for Russia.
Your situation is far more secure than Italy's (or anyone else's), because
Italy has too many boundaries. He cannot, or at least should not, continue
with any western adventures with limited resources.
If you respond favorably, I would like to send a joint message to Germany,
Italy, and you suggesting that Germany and Turkey take out Russia and GEI
take out France, leaving just the four of us. I might even go so far at to
suggest a possible division of spoils, at least in the west. That's easy
for me to do, since I would have the least.
What I have in mind (besides obvious, immediate self interest) is still the
ultimate scenerio that you and I have discussed before. A EIGT ending
still leaves G & I in the middle to pick off one at a time.
If you can get back to me before noon with approval, I will send such a
message with modifications as you may suggest. If I don't hear from you, I
will probably send it anyway for time is short.
Cheers,
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
France is willing to consider an alliance with
either you or Germany, based on my reading of his
letters. Nth S Bel-Hol, Pic-Bel, MAO-ECh will get
you a build, keep Germany from building and give you
an alliance with France. It seems like your best
chance to avoid being on the short end of the
Western Triangle at this point.
Your Friend,
Nick.
PS Obviously, I have a vested interest here, but
I don't believe that my analysis is colored by
that interest, here.
Message from Germany to all
The US Labor Day weekend is upon us. I'm afraid that I'll be out of
touch until Tuesday. (you can talk about me now)
Fredd
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
What a communications mess. I don't know when USIN came back up; I was in bed.
My moves are in now, but I may still have time to change them to correspond
with whatever you have done.
To the best of your knowledge is Italy getting Budapest and two fleet
builds, so that he can attack France? If so, I will try to change my moves.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> What a communications mess. I don't know when USIN came back up; I was in
bed.
Same here.
> My moves are in now, but I may still have time to change them to
correspond
> with whatever you have done.
>
> To the best of your knowledge is Italy getting Budapest and two fleet
> builds, so that he can attack France? If so, I will try to change my
moves.
To the best of my knowledge no, not at this moment. Roberto and I were
supposed to finalize everything yesterday, and the judge was down all day
yesterday. So my orders are still to attack Bud, and I assume Roberto is
supporting me.
I wrote Roberto twice yesterday, but I've not heard back from him. If it
can be safely arranged, there's a fair chance that we'll change our plan.
However, it makes me very nervous to change things when (a) the judge is
being so flaky, and (b) the deadline is past. I'd rather coordinate with a
less-preferred plan, than to have one of us zig while the other zags.
I'll write at once if anything develops.
Ali
Message from Italy to England
Looking back thru my backlog in my inbox, I notice I owe you a message or
two or three. My apologies, but I typically don't like sending press when
the judge is down for various unknown reasons.
Anyway, I know the deadline has passed and this message may not effect the
moves this turn, however, I'm hopeful we might get another extension due to
yesterday's outage.
With the Austrian demise, it would appear I have four choices.
1) attack Germany. I find this the least desirable choice as I really don't
want to anger Germany since he has the ability to aide Turkey in Russia and
the Balkans. I want Turkey and Germany fighting over control of Warsaw and
Moscow.
2) attack Turkey. As you point out, I may end up in a war with Turkey
willingingly or otherwise. If I knew he would turn against me, then a
pre-emptive strike this turn would benefit me greatly.
3) play it cautious and see what unfolds. I have a set of orders available
that just sits and supports, take my build, remain compact, and let the
chips fall where they may. Nothing says I HAVE to be the aggressor at this
point.
4) attack France. I've given this serious consideration. Tyr-Pie, WMS-Gol,
Ion-Tun with a new fleet build looks very strong. France has requested WMS
s Spa/sc-MAO. My question to you is, without my support, would Spain still
succeed in reaching the MAO? And if so, where would your MAO fleet retreat
to?
Which option do you think is best for Italy and why? And which option would
you like, as England, like to see Italy adopt and why?
Lots of questions, but your answers would go a long way in shaping Italian
policy.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
>4) attack France. I've given this serious consideration. Tyr-Pie, WMS-Gol,
>Ion-Tun with a new fleet build looks very strong. France has requested WMS
>s Spa/sc-MAO. My question to you is, without my support, would Spain still
>succeed in reaching the MAO? And if so, where would your MAO fleet retreat
>to?
>
>Which option do you think is best for Italy and why? And which option would
>you like, as England, like to see Italy adopt and why?
I would like to see you attack France, but the moves that I have entered
assume otherwise.
If you do tell me that you are going to attack France (with me), then I
will change my moves.
It is so obvious that this is best for me, otherwise I risk get crushed
between France and Germany. If I don't get crushed between France and
Germany, it would only be because France went after you!
I know that Turkey was leaning toward giving you Budapest precisely so that
you could build two fleets and safely go for France. He too has been
frustrated by the inability to communicate. I will also write a joint note.
Ultimately, I would like to eliminate France and then work against Germany.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
Roberto & Ali,
I have now heard from both of you and wish to change my moves to be
consistent with a joint attack on France. If I get word from Italy that he
is attacking France, then I will immediately change my moves. I do not
know if Italy needs any reassurances from Turkey in order to reach this
decision, so I write both of you.
If MAO is dislodged, I will not retreat to North Africa.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
Ivy,
What moves would you like me to order this turn as a joint attack of France?
WMS s MAO-SPA will not succeed although it may prevent France from reaching
the MAO.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>What moves would you like me to order this turn as a joint attack of France?
>WMS s MAO-SPA will not succeed although it may prevent France from reaching
>the MAO.
I am resigned to losing MAO, but if France takes MAO from Spain, doesn't
that open up Spain for you?
Why not MAO->Spa(sc) & Ion->Tys?
If France gets MAO then you get Spain. I would protect MAO as best as
possible from NAO. Then he can't take MAO without using both Por &
Bre. That definately open up Spa for you. once France loses a unit, it is
all downhill for him.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England and Italy
Gents,
> I have now heard from both of you and wish to change my moves to be
> consistent with a joint attack on France. If I get word from Italy that he
> is attacking France, then I will immediately change my moves. I do not
> know if Italy needs any reassurances from Turkey in order to reach this
> decision, so I write both of you.
Such reassurance is given. I look forward to our mutual success.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
I have informed Roberto that I am no longer attacking Bud. My change in
orders has been confirmed. Looks like we may be able to pull this off after
all.
Must be brief. Will write later.
Ali
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
>
>
> I am resigned to losing MAO, but if France takes MAO from
> Spain, doesn't that open up Spain for you?
>
Yes.
> Why not MAO->Spa(sc) & Ion->Tys?
>
I assume you meant WMS-spa(sc).
^^^
I'll have to ask Ali. Is is alright if I make this move and risk gaining 3
builds? I can always waive a build.
Roberto
btw, Ion would move to Tunis leaving the TYS open for my new fleet out of
Rome/Naples.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Of course, any strongly anti-French moves from you suit our joint
purpose. I just want an indication that you are doing this.
Getting excited,
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> I would protect MAO as best as possible from NAO.
>
Actually, if I am going to move WMS-Spa/sc, would it better if you allowed
France to move into the MAO? Then we can support you back in next spring
after he removes a unit.
Just a thought.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
> > Why not MAO->Spa(sc) & Ion->Tys?
> >
>
>I assume you meant WMS-spa(sc).
Yes, of course. Back to old habits.
>btw, Ion would move to Tunis leaving the TYS open for my new fleet out of
>Rome/Naples.
But the new fleet could still move to TYS next spring, because TYS would be
moving on to WES or LYO. However, I think Ion->Spa is only an advantage
to you if you do get Spain this turn.
As you see fit though.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Actually, if I am going to move WMS-Spa/sc, would it better if you allowed
>France to move into the MAO? Then we can support you back in next spring
>after he removes a unit.
Yes, if you know that France is attacking from Spain.
So, when (if?) you give me the word that you are going through with this,
please confirm that you want me to vacate MAO now.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
Must go eat.
I've changed my moves, although I would still like a final confirmation
from Roberto.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Turkey
>
> But the new fleet could still move to TYS next spring,
> because TYS would be moving on to WES or LYO.
>
I will take another look.
Ali, do you agree with Ivy's tactical analysis regarding my fleet move to
TUN or TYS?
> if you know that France is attacking from Spain.
I have been asked to order 'WMS s Spa/sc - MAO'. He's been honest with me
to date. I see no advantage to France to ask for this support if he doesn't
intend to use it.
> So, when (if?) you give me the word that you are going
> through with this, please confirm that you want me to
> vacate MAO now.
I will issue Tyr-Pie and WMS-Spa/sc pending no objection from Ali for my
potential 3rd build this year. I have no expectation to keep Spain next
year but would hope to exchange it for Marseilles if possible.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
> pending no objection from Ali for my
>potential 3rd build this year.
Why not go for 4 and hit Munich? 8-)
[Can you spell s-u-i-c-i-d-e ?]
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
As I understand it, the EI plan is to allow France into MAO, thereby WMS into
Spa/sc. Roberto has agreed to support me to Bud, so he takes Spa, Vie and I
take Bud, Sev. So I would highly urge you to allow France to MAO =).
Fingers crossed,
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I will issue Tyr-Pie and WMS-Spa/sc pending no objection from Ali for my
>potential 3rd build this year. I have no expectation to keep Spain next
>year but would hope to exchange it for Marseilles if possible.
I say let Italy take a shot with Wes->Spa. Whether he makes it or not, he
has started a war with France. That's good for both you and me. If he
succeeds, we will simply insist that he cool his heels for a while until
the situation evens out a little.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Turkey
MAO->IRI has been entered.
Ivy
Message from Master to all
Not sure if any of these emails are getting through . . .
I'm have extreme email difficulty with my usual conduit -- if you've sent
me any email in the last day or so, please send it directly to
dtmasse@us.ibm.com
I'm assuming we can process orders tonight?
Doug
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well, after that last-minute flurry of negotiations, all is quiet. I'll be
going out of town this evening, and will be gone through Monday evening. I'll
be out of e-mail contact during that time. So, I may not even see the results
until I get back. I've removed my wait, but it seems others still have it
set.
In any case, it seems we've got a good deal worked out. It would be nicer if
you were getting a build out of it, but at least Italy won't build three
(assuming he keeps his promise). Anyway, I'm sure you would share my delight
in seeing Italy take Spain.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to all
To whom it may concern:
I have declared a national holiday throughout Turkey. As a result, the
Turkish diplomatic office will be closed as our people celebrate three days of
drunken debauchery, ah, that is to say, prayer and meditation.
Our diplomatic corps will resume their work in three days. Until then, may
Allah smile on you all.
Ali Baba
Austria: Fleet Aegean Sea → Smyrna (*bounce, dislodged*)
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Turkish Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*void, dislodged*)
England: Army Belgium SUPPORT Fleet Picardy (*cut*)
England: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Irish Sea
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Army Belgium
England: Fleet Picardy SUPPORT Army Belgium (*cut, dislodged*)
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Army Paris → Picardy
France: Army Burgundy → Belgium (*bounce*)
France: Army Paris → Picardy
France: Fleet Portugal SUPPORT Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Germany: Fleet Baltic Sea → Denmark
Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Army Livonia → St Petersburg
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland
Germany: Army Livonia → St Petersburg (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Silesia → Munich
Germany: Army Silesia → Munich
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Aegean Sea
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Aegean Sea
Italy: Army Trieste → Serbia
Italy: Army Tyrolia → Trieste
Italy: Army Vienna SUPPORT Turkish Army Serbia → Budapest
Italy: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT French Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Livonia (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Livonia
Turkey: Army Armenia → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea → Bulgaria (east coast)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Serbia → Budapest
Turkey: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Bulgaria → Rumania (*cut*)
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