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England: Removes 1 unit
France: Builds 2 units
Germany: Builds 1 unit
Italy: Builds 1 unit
Russia: Builds 2 units
Turkey: Builds 1 unit
Message from Russia to Turkey
Hey Jason,
I know you're not happy with my move. I'm not either. I got up at 5am to
change them, but the moves had already processed.
FWIW, I really was worried about the possibility that you were planning to
come against me. I said that pretty clearly in my last messages. When you
responded by explaining how you were going to work with Andy for the next
three seasons, the support you promised me for getting you Rum just
disappeared without comment, and you wouldn't address how RT cooperation
might take place going forward, I kind of panicked. I truly didn't want to
fight you, and was trying to make clear how we could make a win-win for us
(in particular, Rum-Ser, Bul S Rum-Ser) I would have tapped Bud to make it
happen), but you seemed intent on moves that kept me without longer term
issues.
So that's my reasoning for the moves.
FWIW, I had changed my mind and am only up now (I checked the results at
5am local time, and I am NOT a morning person) because I had seen that the
moves were late last night, and I thought I could change them. But it's too
late for that now. So we're left with this mess.
I'm going back to bed, but wanted to drop a line first.
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Turkey
Hi Jason,
I try real hard to work with you since the start of the
game, and failed miserably. If there's anything that
could change that, do let me know because I ran out
of idea.
Hopefully, you will use this opportunity to build
yourself a fleet since the Med. is going to be full of
them soon.
Regards,
Philippe
Message from England to all
Greetings all. I will be travelling through Friday - maybe Saturday - and
will correspond as much as I can.
Ben
Message from Germany to all
Hahahahahaha I hope none of you are observers to the PINNACLE VGFP 2002-2004
tournament via yahoo groups.
I posted my password, moves and press to the user group. Thanks to Doug for
pointing that out.
Message from Turkey to Austria
I appreciate that you've been trying to work something out. AT is just
hard to do in the long run. It's not over for anyone yet, though.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Well, Russia claims he panicked, and Austria is giving me his sad story
once again.
Not sure what to do here. France has two builds, and is breathing down
your neck. Russia has two builds, and might decide I'm too much trouble.
Germany's in no position to counter anyone.
I'm going for a fleet this turn, not to go against you, but mostly
because an army will only freak Russia out completely.
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
> I appreciate that you've been trying to work something out. AT is just
> hard to do in the long run. It's not over for anyone yet, though.
In case you don't know, were as an AT is hard to work out,
an IT is nearly impossible. To be safe, Italy need to maintain
as big a navy as those from France & Turkey require of him,
while possessing the armies necessary to make gains further
inland; but for Turkey to be safe, he need to be in control of
the sea spaces surrounding his empire.
Basically, alliance between land power & sea power are
more stable then alliance of the same type. You can pretend
all you want that Italy or Turkey can become a land power,
but doing so when your homeland consist of coastal sc mean
that you expose yourself to a massive stab whenever your
ally feel like it.
More then that, even if you could take over all of the Balkans,
Austria & Russia for yourself, it would still leave you with 14
sc. Since the Med. is easy to blocked and hard to progress
through at best of time, your current strategy would never
allow you to secure a solo victory, so I would suggest trying
to insure you last long enough to be part of a draw instead
of rushing to your death.
Regards,
Philippe.
P.-S. Since I thought you didn't trust me, I suggested going
with Russia instead, God knows that it would be preferable
to working with Italy; but your safest bet, if you ever feel
like it, is to work with me.
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Well, Russia claims he panicked, and Austria is giving me his sad story
> once again.
You know that is crap.
> Not sure what to do here. France has two builds, and is breathing down
> your neck. Russia has two builds, and might decide I'm too much trouble.
> Germany's in no position to counter anyone.
I would suggest defending yourself. AR is coming. I will hinder A as much
as I can.
> I'm going for a fleet this turn, not to go against you, but mostly
> because an army will only freak Russia out completely.
I dont recommend it. But its your call
Message from England to all
Ok, I have *occasional* access - maybe about once per day, evenings my
time, for short periods, while I'm away.
I'll be up to full speed over the weekend.
Ben
Message from Turkey to Turkey
Sigh. What a total mess.
I thought AT would work great to get me a couple of Russian centers.
Junk. Then, I thought running the RT would work well. Crap. Now what do
I have? IT? Sheesh. AT is hard enough to run in the long run. IT is even
worse, as Austria says.
I want to build F Smy to try and keep a balanced force, but if I do face
AR, which is certainly likely, that's almost useless except to defend
Bul. A Ank could always convoy to Sev, but Russia's likely to block that
one. Of course, AIR is always a possibility.
If Russia does build in Sev, he's coming after me. A War means AG. StP
is England. We'll see what combination he chooses.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
So, do you think A Ank or F Ank makes more sense?
Obviously, I could use a support in Bul as well, if you could.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
> So, do you think A Ank or F Ank makes more sense?
> Obviously, I could use a support in Bul as well, if you could.
>
You have my support, and I would build an army, its a bigger threat to
Russia.
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason....definitely ....build the Fleet in Ankara,
I have a plan....it gets me SErbia in the spring and you Rum (and maybe
SEV) in the fall
Andy
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Following up on my last message. I haven't heard from you since the moves and
don't know if it's due to you being too busy or if you're not talking to me.
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to Italy
Gotcha. F Ank ordered.
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Sorry about not getting back with you. We had high winds over here last
night that knocked out our power.
So, how do you want to reconstitute RT? With you in Rum, and a build in
Sev, I have to assume that AR is coming down the pike. Obviously, I'd
prefer to avoid that. How should we now push west?
jason
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
I had started a longish message to you when I saw yours. I think some of it
is a repeat from what I had said before.
My main concern last season was the "how is RT going to move forward"
question. I asked a couple of times about how we would cooperate, and even
said that I was concerned enough to consider attacking you (I believe I said,
"Are you trying to goad me into attacking Rum?"). When you sent that last
minute message saying that you were giving Andy Ser and he was going to give
you Gre in return, that just looked like you were going to come after me. In
particular, I don't see how you would expect to get Gre uncontested if you
build F Smy -- Andy would see that as hostile. Unfortunately, getting that
message from you right before the deadline I didn't have time to talk it out
with you, so went with the move that Philippe suggested.
Had I really had more time to think about it, then even if I didn't have the
chance to negotiate with you, I would have *at least* used the army to take
Rum, because then I could guarantee you getting Ser in Spring.
If you are willing to cooperate, here's what I think we could do:
If neither of us builds fleets on Bla (that is, you build F Smy and I build A
Sev) I can shuffle my units so that I put an Army into Rum, while you move to
Aeg to threaten Gre (if you bounce with Andy, that's no big deal, Gre is
still unprotected). In Fall, we can do what I suggested last season -- I
support you to Ser and tap (or maybe attack) Bud. You get a guaranteed build,
I get a "maybe" build. You put in a fleet, and by S04 you have Gre (Andy
won't be able to stop that), and then we get you Tri and me Vie, and the
Juggernaut is off and rolling.
Now that first part, where you build F Smy and I build A Sev, is the hard
part. It takes a lot of initial trust. But if you are willing to commit to
it, then I think it puts us in a very strong position, and gives you a clear
direction for growth. With Austria dead, you should get some fairly quick
growth into Italy, while an obvious RT will cause GE to combine against me,
so you shouldn't even have to worry about getting "overshadowed" by me.
That's my thinking in a nutshell. I'm sure there's details to work out.
What do you think?
--- Eric
P.S. I hope everything's alright with you. Don't know where you are
physically, so don't know which storms you are referring to. I've been really
busy myself, or you'd have had much more substantial mail in your inbox
already.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Doing fine over here. We've just had some high winds near Philly, and
it's knocked down some trees.
I'm not sure I follow how this shuffling will work. If you build A Sev,
where does F Rum go, so you can move A Sev into Rum? It seems I'll have
to vacate Bla, which I'm obviously not a fan of.
Unfortunately, your direct attack last turn has made me a little wary.
jason
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Glad to hear you are doing okay.
It looks like all the mail I got and sent yesterday was eaten by my ISP
last night, so I don't have my original message to you on hand. Oh well,
I'll know what I said when I get eliminated and can read the archives. :)
>I'm not sure I follow how this shuffling will work. If you build A Sev,
>where does F Rum go, so you can move A Sev into Rum?
F Rum would go Sev. I could either rotate my three units (Sev Ukr Rum) or
you could convoy Sev to Rum. Probably the former.
>It seems I'll have
>to vacate Bla, which I'm obviously not a fan of.
I never said that F Bla would leave; besides, that would be unrealistic to
ask of you at this point. Down the line -- once we are actually working
together and have built up some mutual trust -- obviously I'd like that,
but for now you'll need it for defense -- against me if you don't trust me,
and to support Con or Bul if you end up fighting Andy. My thinking was that
you get Ser, then build another F Smy, then you've got two fleets on the
EMed, and can take Gre. It's several seasons before you "need" to leave Bla.
>Unfortunately, your direct attack last turn has made me a little wary.
Well of course it did, but that comment can go both ways. Your move to Arm
in S01, you helping Austria into Rum in F01, and you pulling your promised
support for Gal while announcing you had a long term deal with Andy in S02
has made me wary of working with you. Still I made an honest effort last
season to set up an RT that got rolling quickly. When you said no to us
working together directly and instead wanted to support Andy, I tried to
get you to explain how RT would benefit from the moves you suggested.
Of course you should be wary of me, but despite my attack I've been
straight with you all along. When I was worried about your moves I told you
about it. I've offered and followed through on agreements that actually
help you (and got you Rum). Yes, I know that I attacked you, but as I've
said a couple of times, I told that if I hit Rum I'd have to do it harder
than a tap, and that your plans with Andy had me considering an attack. So
while it was an attack, it would be a stretch to call it a stab. It's not
like I sat here thinking "ha, ha, he's fallen into my trap, now I'll just
blindside him in Rum". I tried hard to change your mind and craft an
arrangement where we both benefited. It was only when it became clear that
you were set on an agreement where you and Andy got centers while I was
stuck on the sidelines that I took the more drastic step of attacking you.
On the other hand, I know you were nervous about Andy, but you'd be crazy
not to consider Andy a threat right now. Just imagine how he's salivating
over there. If you and I build fleets on Bla, then we fight while he gets
Ser, and then he's got enough units to move west, while dictating things
(and taking the lion's share of the gains) in the east. Since neither of us
is going to get builds without his help, he gets his choice of allies. And
realistically, it's going to be easier for him to take Turkish centers than
to take Russian centers. From my point of view you are actually much more
directly threatened by us fighting than I am, because once Andy is in Ser,
he doesn't need your help to expand any more. He'll just have a bunch of
units staring down at Bul/Con/Smy, and thinking, "gee, if I work with
Russia, I'll get twice as many Turkish centers as he will".
So the question isn't "should you be worried about me". The question is who
is in a better position to really hurt you, me, Andy or Philippe, and
therefor who should you be MOST wary of. The last thing I want to do is
spend a lot of effort fighting you and going nowhere while Andy grows. I'm
hoping you see RT conflict at this point the same way.
Sorry, I know this got long winded -- but (a) I'm a windbag and (b) I've
been so busy at work that I haven't gotten much press to you recently and
this is a make-up message. And I probably sound a little hostile because
I'm pulling out every bit of history between us and dissecting it. But I'm
not trying to be hostile. I know that we're beyond the "just trust me"
point -- probably have been since the S01 moves -- so I want to make it
really clear that my actions have made sense in the context of trying to
create an RT.
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to Turkey
As much as I agree with Andy about not wanting to screw up a good thing,
and as much as I hate going back and forth between allies, Russia makes
lots of sense.
Andy promises me Rum and Sev, which is clearly exactly what he wants me
to take. All my armies sit in the middle of Russia, while his fleets hit
me from behind. I can't afford for that to happen.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Very well. I do see the threat that Andy poses to me, and I'm sure he
wants nothing more than for me to march everything I've got north, while
he takes over Turkey. I'll build F Smy.
jason
Message from France to Turkey
Sorry I haven't talked to you in a while -- we've clearly both been busy.
Nice work on the diplomatic redirect down there. Very well done. Would you
like to talk about Russian growth?
Erik
Message from Turkey to France
Good to hear from you.
Not sure how much is diplomatic maneuvering and how much is me just
being confused. :-)
As for Russian growth, certainly. His position in the north is much more
advanced than I would have expected. How are you and England looking to
keep him in check?
jason
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
Sorry I didn't write sooner - I'd been away. Unfortunately I hadn't known
about the attack, either. Hopefully you will be able to survive in a shell
for alittle while - with A and I at war already, relief may be in sight.
I haven't heard from A or I in ages, but I'll let you know if I do.
Ben
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
In this brief respite, just wanted to confirm that we're still on for no
fleet builds on Bla. Andy has told me that his plan is to take Ser and then
convoy a second army into Gre, so he's definitely coming after you if you
come after me. Whereas I have plenty of places to move if I focus north,
which gives you lots of options to take Balkan centers.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
That last message was more theoretical than it should have been. My build
order is for A Sev. I just wanted to make sure you knew that I was still in.
I didn't mean it to be a question.
I think this (A Sev, F Smy) will work very well for both of us, and put us in
a position to expand in opposite (well, technically parallel) directions.
Good luck!
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to England
Thanks, I should be fine over here. Italy talks to me occasionally, but
I think he's just setting me up for the stab. Austria will probably be
going down in flames soon.
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Confirm F Smy. We're a go.
jason
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Thanks, I should be fine over here. Italy talks to me occasionally, but
> I think he's just setting me up for the stab. Austria will probably be
> going down in flames soon.
:-)
You know, when Eric took Norway from me, he was very nice about it, too.
Godspeed, my friend.
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
No doubt. :-)
Trouble is, Italy will get me if Russia doesn't. Rock and a hard place,
as they say!
Godspeed to you as well.
jason
England: REMOVE Army Yorkshire
France: BUILD Fleet Marseilles
France: BUILD Army Paris
Germany: BUILD Army Berlin
Italy: BUILD Army Rome
Russia: BUILD Army Sevastopol
Russia: BUILD Army Warsaw
Turkey: BUILD Fleet Smyrna
Centers
Austria: 4
England: 3
France: 6
Germany: 5
Italy: 5
Russia: 7
Turkey: 4
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