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England: Removes 1 unit
France: Builds 2 units
Germany: Builds 1 unit
Italy: Builds 1 unit
Russia: Builds 2 units
Turkey: Builds 1 unit
Message from Germany to England
Sorry Ben. I got spooked by you and France asking me to cut support from Sweden.
I found it very suspicious that you should both ask for the same thing within minutes of each other.
It was just to much of a coincidence, the two of you are still working together, until that is broken I have to stay with Russia.
Message from Germany to England
And also with both of you asking for me to move to Sweden I forsaw ska - den supported by nth.
Russia clearly indicated that he wouldnt be supporting me and needed to selfsupport himself.
Our moves would have worked but as I stated EF are still working to close together.
Your moves also indicated such, I was hoping to see lon - eng. The move to the NTH would have only meant my downfall.
Message from Germany to England
I would be considering lon - eng supported by nth followed by a convoy of yor - bel in the fall.
I cant consider working with you until I see some firm commitment against France, obviously the same applies for him against you. In fact if you would have gone to ENG last turn then BEL would have been yours in the spring. It can still be done, but it will mean LON - ENG in the spring.
Message from Russia to England
How about that Tony? Lied to both of us, we both knew he was lying to us,
and he still surprised us both. When he told me that he offered to support
Ska-Swe and you refused it, I was sure that Swe was going down.
You are in a tough position, and it's clear you're going to need to think
about how much you trust Erik and me when choosing your disband and forward
path. While I wish you had hit Tony (I know, not as much as you), what I
said about not being upset about you attacking me still holds.
Anyway, I really need to get to bed. Long deadline, more later.
--- Eric
Message from Austria to England
> I would appreciate it if you would keep this morsel between us. The image
> of an RT is very helpful to me right now. Thank you for the excellent
> insight.
I didn't tell anyone, but it seem other did. I guess
you expected Tony to support you in Sweden?
Regards,
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
Well, in a big surprise, Tony lied to me again. . . As I see it, we should
still be ok, as I am inclined to believe I will get Russian help against
Germany now. What harm am I, after all, and Tony has grown too much & been
lying his butt off to everyone, as far as I can tell.
F MAR and A PAR? I'm not sure why you would want to build F BRE, but if
you have reasons, let me know, so I can discourage you. ;o)
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> How about that Tony? Lied to both of us, we both knew he was lying to us,
> and he still surprised us both. When he told me that he offered to support
> Ska-Swe and you refused it, I was sure that Swe was going down.
I made a mistake not switching to an attack against DEN, which I almost did
last night after our correspondence yesterday. Looking back on it I'm not
sure why I didn't. . .
Anyway our position is good against Germany and you are clearly engaged in
the south again.
No doubt you are building F SEV - what are your thoughts for your second
build?
Ben
Message from England to all
Greetings all. I will be travelling through Friday - maybe Saturday - and
will correspond as much as I can.
Ben
Message from Germany to all
Hahahahahaha I hope none of you are observers to the PINNACLE VGFP 2002-2004
tournament via yahoo groups.
I posted my password, moves and press to the user group. Thanks to Doug for
pointing that out.
Message from France to England
Ben:
Okay, so trusting Tony was a little naive of us. At least I got Belgium,
which keeps him toned down a notch.
Not sure where you should head now. You need to take a center back, sure;
maybe it's worth trying for Holland or Denmark instead. I'm sure Russia
would help you move Ska - Den; the last thing he wants is EG cooperation.
The only reason for F Bre is to build fleets to deal with Andy without
alarming him immediately; F Mar is a little troubling for him, whereas F
Bre - Mao, Por - Spa (sc) achieves almost the same position but with less
initial threat to him.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
I made a big mistake not attacking DEN. Still I am hopeful for Russian cooperation.
As you say he does not want EG cooperation, and I am sure he does not want Tony to
grow any more.
So I will reach out to him - already underway.
Your moves have been exclusively anti-Germany. Andy can live with a F MAR; hold it
back if you like. I can write him of your defensive intentions, if you like.
Ben
Message from England to all
Ok, I have *occasional* access - maybe about once per day, evenings my
time, for short periods, while I'm away.
I'll be up to full speed over the weekend.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Sorry for not getting back sooner - I ended up leaving in a big rush.
I may have done the same thing as you did, in your shoes. The fact
is, our plan did not have on its face a big enought benefit for
Germany, and you wanted to retake MUN.
Next time we work something out, I will try to keep out a better eye
for your own interests, & I will count on you complying if the deal is
indeed, good enough for the deserving German people.
Ben
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
I do not have your note in front of me, though as I recall you
sent me a nice one.
Yes things could be better for me. A great deal will depend on
Russia - if Eric wants to work with me then, despite my small
size, I will be on good terms with F and R, most importantly.
Assuming I am on good terms with F.
Anyway, good for you; RT conflict is surely not a bad thing for
Austria. . .
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Eric screwed me in 02. Still if you can help repair that bridge, I
think Eric wants to see me attack Tony & I will comply, if Eric will
assist me, instead of taking my dots.
What do you think
and
What can you do to help.
Thanks.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> Eric screwed me in 02. Still if you can help repair that bridge, I
> think Eric wants to see me attack Tony & I will comply, if Eric will
> assist me, instead of taking my dots.
Im working on it.
I want to see how he responds to my note.
Message from Germany to England
I bet France is pushing for a disband of the army or of the fleet in London.
You are at a crossroads once again.
If the fleet in SKA is removed then I will start to believe that EG can have a meaningful and mutual benificial relationship.
Message from France to England
>
> Erik -
> I made a big mistake not attacking DEN. Still I am hopeful for Russian
> cooperation.
True. Last turn could have gone better all around, I think, despite my
gains in Belgium. Actually taking Munich sort of threw me for a loop, and
the Russian's wacky set of moves really kind of derailed your efforts.
>
> Your moves have been exclusively anti-Germany. Andy can live with a F
> MAR; hold it
> back if you like. I can write him of your defensive intentions, if you
> like.
>
I suppose you're right. Speaking of Andy, he's been sending me messages
urging me to "make nice" with you, and claims that you've been claiming to
him that I somehow screwed you in '02. What's the story with that?
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
Interesting about Andy. What I told him was, *Eric* screwed me. He must have
heard, *Erik*. :-)
Still it works to our benefit. Tell him you had to build F MAR (instead of
BRE) to make up with me.
It gave me a laugh anyway - I had to dig up the press I'd sent him. Pretty funny.
Do me a favor and don't build F BRE. It will force me to keep A YOR, which I'd
rather not do.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Thanks.
Keep me posted. Russian & French interests seem to be that
I should attack Germany - I should think it's what they both
want.
They just need to know it.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Erik isn't asking for anything. But right now I'm not going to push a plan
with you - burned too many times. I'm glad to work with you, if you have
something suitable to your interests, but lay it out for me & I'll let you
know.
Not saying I won't do it - quite the contrary - just saying, don't ask me
to take a leap of faith right now.
We have plenty of time - let me know what's on your mind.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
Hi Ben,
This has been a tough week for Diplomacy. I've had time to get out a few
notes, but mostly it's been reply quickly to whatever comes in (which ain't
been much either). So my apologies on that front. Next week I have Jury
Duty. I honestly don't know if that's going to help or hurt the problem.
So it will come as no surprise that Tony wants to see me build F StP/nc.
Normally (if you were in a better position) I'd think about suggesting we
do it. If I can get Bal without Tony expecting it, that would be great, and
while StP/nc is a threat to you, it's just as close to Swe as StP/sc, and
may be important if Tony builds a second fleet. I'm guessing you won't like
this idea, so I'm just talking at this point. Feel free to rebut, concede,
whatever, but please don't feel threatened by me throwing the idea out there.
My dilemma is that I'm trying to figure out how not to telegraph my intent
to Tony. Any build that is not StP/nc will be worrisome to him. Any ideas
on how to play that?
There are two longer term points I'd like to cover with you:
(1) Assuming we go through with taking out Tony, how do you propose we go
forward? I know you said that you are of the "let's not argue over things
that may not happen" persuasion, but I have to admit that part of the
thinking in taking Nwy in Spring was the apparent strength of the FE
alliance. I didn't want to help you into Germany without some sense that
you were seriously considering moving on France as Germany falls. Because,
frankly, if you are not, then I SHOULD be building StP/nc regardless and
sticking with Tony a little longer, hoping that as you fall, maybe France
and Tony won't get along. That's not my preferred course of action, and I
don't expect you to say anything but that you would consider moving on
France, but I'd like to get somewhat more specific about things.
(2) Along those lines, as a strawman outline of longterm ER cooperation I
propose the following. I keep Nwy, but unmanned or perhaps with just an
army there, unless we get into a situation where center swapping is
important. In Spring, you order Ska-Den with support, while I move Swe-Bal,
Nwy-Swe. If you are successful taking Den, you help me into Germany (which
probably will unsuccessful until 04) and we try to lock up Germany before
France can get too far entrenched. If you are unsuccessful taking Den, then
I'll have F Bal, A Swe, and we'll be able to overpower him there, and the
"lock up Germany quickly" plan continues. Then basically we DMZ
Scandinavia, keep some token troops in Germany proper, and you go west
while I go south.
Sorry, I'm trying to make up for days of not being available here. If my
grand planning is too much to take at once, or if I'm overlooking some
obvious problem just point it out.
Good luck this week. The phins are good, but they are weak enough that the
Ravens may be able to take them. With Gannon and Tui both out for the year,
I think our draft positions are looking pretty strong. Yet another reason
to root against Tampa! (I think we still get a couple of their first round
picks from the Gruden trade).
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Stayed away & extra day & arrived home to 368 e-mails in the in-box.
Your plan looks good - hold onto NWY.
I am coming to the realization that Tony makes his money moving while
everyone around him tries to appear neutral. If you want to go against him
then STP/sc, though really I think we'd be find with two southern armies.
Your call.
Ben
Message from England to England
A few small - though some important - points.
First of all, Andy mistaking "Eric" for "Erik" could get me in some big
trouble. If Erik is alienated then there will be a F MAR and I will soon
be the walking dead. He write so rarely - I will have to wait for his
response to my last note - mustn't bother him too much. One way or the
other I will write him tomorrow.
Second, I should have taken DEN. I thought about it as the deadline drew
near and I didn't do it. I don't even remember why not.
Third, my plan has shifted to the more short term goal of, surviving the
opening.
This board is making me feel like a newbie. . .
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
I am at work & don't have my archives here. Where were we? Did you decide
not to build F BRE?
Ben
Message from France to England
>
> Erik -
> I am at work & don't have my archives here. Where were we? Did you
> decide
> not to build F BRE?
>
Yes. I'll build F Mar and tell Andy that you forced me not to build in Bre
as part of my trying to win you back from "screwing you." Just don't
correct his mistake if you haven't already.
So, A Par and F Bre. What are you going to remove?
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Yes. I'll build F Mar and tell Andy that you forced me not to
> build in Bre
> as part of my trying to win you back from "screwing you." Just don't
> correct his mistake if you haven't already.
Good, good. No, I didn't tell him - I thought it might work to our
advantage this way.
> So, A Par and F Bre. What are you going to remove?
A LON.
I'm hopeful Eric will work with me now - I'm agreeable and his easy gain, in
NWY, he already has.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Sorry that last note was so short - I just wanted to get something out to
you.
In some more detail:
> This has been a tough week for Diplomacy. I've had time to
> get out a few
> notes, but mostly it's been reply quickly to whatever comes
> in (which ain't been much either).
I'm pleased to hear it's not just *me*. I would have expected more press in
an exhibition game. I was worried I was just out of the loop. . .
> So my apologies on that front. Next week I have Jury
> Duty. I honestly don't know if that's going to help or hurt
> the problem.
Let me know how that goes. I have some familiarity with juries. . .
> So it will come as no surprise that Tony wants to see me
> build F StP/nc.
> Normally (if you were in a better position) I'd think about
> suggesting we
> do it. If I can get Bal without Tony expecting it, that would
> be great, and
> while StP/nc is a threat to you, it's just as close to Swe as
> StP/sc, and
> may be important if Tony builds a second fleet. I'm guessing
> you won't like
> this idea, so I'm just talking at this point. Feel free to
> rebut, concede,
> whatever, but please don't feel threatened by me throwing the
> idea out there.
I don't think there's anything to be gained by STP/nc. Long term of course
it has certain advantages for Russia, short term I do not think we have have
much to gain from trying to sneak up on Tony.
> My dilemma is that I'm trying to figure out how not to
> telegraph my intent
> to Tony. Any build that is not StP/nc will be worrisome to
> him. Any ideas on how to play that?
You do not need to build a northern fleet. With the chaos in the Balkans
two southern armies could serve you well. Then support me into DEN; BER for
you is a matter of time, and your northern garrison ought to be enough to
keep me at bay, should I decide to attack. Then you have preserved
neutrality another season, and set yourself up nicely in the south *and* for
a ground attack against Germany in the spring.
> There are two longer term points I'd like to cover with you:
>
> (1) Assuming we go through with taking out Tony, how do you
> propose we go
> forward? I know you said that you are of the "let's not argue
> over things
> that may not happen" persuasion, but I have to admit that part of the
> thinking in taking Nwy in Spring was the apparent strength of the FE
> alliance. I didn't want to help you into Germany without some
> sense that
> you were seriously considering moving on France as Germany
> falls. Because,
> frankly, if you are not, then I SHOULD be building StP/nc
> regardless and
> sticking with Tony a little longer, hoping that as you fall,
> maybe France
> and Tony won't get along. That's not my preferred course of
> action, and I
> don't expect you to say anything but that you would consider moving on
> France, but I'd like to get somewhat more specific about things.
:-) Apparently I have an undeserved reputation as some kind of carebear, as
this is not the first time someone this game has made a comment like this to
me. I am quite sure you have me mistaken for someone else.
Geographically speaking, ER makes more sense than EF. I vaguely recall this
is born out in some 'Zine statistical analysis, though I could be wrong
about that. The best allies are the ones who are distant, is my thinking.
> (2) Along those lines, as a strawman outline of longterm ER
> cooperation I
> propose the following. I keep Nwy, but unmanned or perhaps
> with just an
> army there, unless we get into a situation where center swapping is
> important. In Spring, you order Ska-Den with support, while I
> move Swe-Bal,
> Nwy-Swe. If you are successful taking Den, you help me into
> Germany (which
> probably will unsuccessful until 04) and we try to lock up
> Germany before
> France can get too far entrenched. If you are unsuccessful
> taking Den, then
> I'll have F Bal, A Swe, and we'll be able to overpower him
> there, and the
> "lock up Germany quickly" plan continues. Then basically we DMZ
> Scandinavia, keep some token troops in Germany proper, and you go west
> while I go south.
I love this plan. This is exactly why E and R can be allied for so long.
My thinking is, perhaps you will not build the second northern fleet, as
sooner or later it will have nowhere to go but the STP quay, which will not
do you much good. An army in WAR may serve our goals - short and long term
- better.
> Sorry, I'm trying to make up for days of not being available
> here. If my
> grand planning is too much to take at once, or if I'm overlooking some
> obvious problem just point it out.
No no no. You have hit the nail on the head, as far as I'm concerned, with
ER relations.
> Good luck this week. The phins are good, but they are weak
> enough that the
> Ravens may be able to take them. With Gannon and Tui both out
> for the year,
> I think our draft positions are looking pretty strong. Yet
> another reason
> to root against Tampa! (I think we still get a couple of
> their first round picks from the Gruden trade).
Hate the Bucs. Nice game for the Raiders - the Vikings are taking their
turn in the cellar; maybe the Raiders get to come out. Our defense played
like Super Bowl champs, second week in a row. Griese had 126 yards passing,
or something like that, and *awesome* Miami field position turned into nine
lousy points for them. Unfortunately, it was enough. Boller was (& will
be) the real deal - better & better every week, with a huge upside - but for
the third year in a row we have lost a key starter to a lengthy injury.
2001 - Jamal Lewis 2002 - Ray Lewis 2003 - Kyle Boller. Oh well, it's the
NFL.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Oops. Remove the army in YOR, I meant - there is of course no army in LON.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
On the low press volume, it's a problem I almost always run into in PBEM. My
work schedule is so wildy variable that at some times I can send tons, and at
others it's difficult just to check in.
On you being a carebear, I certainly didn't mean to imply that. What I meant
was just that there were two ways you could expand as Tony falls, one of
which is to keep moving east, and the other is to push on France. I agree
with your comments that being not-close neighbors makes cooperation easier,
which is what makes NOT building a northern fleet look like a good idea to
me. I certainly don't want to give you any reason to join up with Tony, and a
northern fleet would not help me pick up a center for at least two years.
However, with no build in the north I was concerned that I might be painting
a tempting target. I thought it important to point out reasons why I thought
I would be a more tempting ally (because you get the same number or more
centers out of cooperation, with better overall position and fewer enemies)
than target (because it's unlikely you'd get much further than StP, and doing
so puts you out of position if France gets any ideas). In my mind G or F are
both more of a threat to you than Russia, and so my idea made a ton of sense,
but never having played England, I'm not sure that's how you would see things
from your side.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> On you being a carebear, I certainly didn't mean to imply that. What I
meant
> was just that there were two ways you could expand as Tony falls, one of
> which is to keep moving east, and the other is to push on France. I agree
> with your comments that being not-close neighbors makes cooperation
easier,
> which is what makes NOT building a northern fleet look like a good idea to
> me. I certainly don't want to give you any reason to join up with Tony,
and a
> northern fleet would not help me pick up a center for at least two years.
I agree on this point. I do not think, short term, a northern fleet would
help you very much. Long term it is hostile to England; short term I do
not think you need it for Germany. Thus spake England, giving the reason
against a northern fleet build.
> However, with no build in the north I was concerned that I might be
painting
> a tempting target. I thought it important to point out reasons why I
thought
> I would be a more tempting ally (because you get the same number or more
> centers out of cooperation, with better overall position and fewer
enemies)
> than target (because it's unlikely you'd get much further than StP, and
doing
> so puts you out of position if France gets any ideas). In my mind G or F
are
> both more of a threat to you than Russia, and so my idea made a ton of
sense,
> but never having played England, I'm not sure that's how you would see
things
> from your side.
Why would I attack you. Tony's been lying to me since S'01 and as you know
I have another neighbor - France - who also would like to see Tony go down.
You do not need to build a northern fleet to show me you mean business.
You are well enough defended there, I think. What I would ask, rather than
showing me you are prepared to defend yourself, is that you are prepared to
cash in on the benefit of our ER.
Ultimately it is your call. Now you know how I feel.
Ben
p.s. Only just a few hours ago observed Oakland on the schedule in a few
weeks. . . Game is here, I think.
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I do not know how much time we will have before Erik's moves come in.
But if you would still like to build a F STP, I'd be curious to know your
reasons, so I could try to address them.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Oops! Didn't really mean two southern armies - I'd overlooked SEV was
vacant. I imagine you will be building a southern fleet. . .
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
Sorry I didn't write sooner - I'd been away. Unfortunately I hadn't known
about the attack, either. Hopefully you will be able to survive in a shell
for alittle while - with A and I at war already, relief may be in sight.
I haven't heard from A or I in ages, but I'll let you know if I do.
Ben
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
Well, good for you, my friend. Hopefully the crack in the door will widen
and you will emerge the stronger for your early challenges.
Now if only you can hold off Italy. . .
I haven't heard from any of the eastern powers in ages, except for the
occasional note about Scandinavia, from Russia.
But I'm sending out some press now & I'll let you know if I hear anything.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
I've decided not to go with F StP, so no need to convince me.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I've decided not to go with F StP, so no need to convince me.
Now if only we could find Erik. . .
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> Well, good for you, my friend. Hopefully the crack in the door will widen
> and you will emerge the stronger for your early challenges.
>
> Now if only you can hold off Italy. . .
>
> I haven't heard from any of the eastern powers in ages, except for the
> occasional note about Scandinavia, from Russia.
>
> But I'm sending out some press now & I'll let you know if I hear anything.
Hi Ben,
Not sure I follow where this is coming from. Has anything
happened recently wich I should know about?
Regards,
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Not sure I follow where this is coming from. Has anything
> happened recently wich I should know about?
I had thought there was an RTI against you. Now I see you and Russia
ejecting Turkey from Rumania. Surely that is some kind of improvement,
right?
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> I had thought there was an RTI against you. Now I see you and Russia
> ejecting Turkey from Rumania. Surely that is some kind of improvement,
> right?
Since it's now been a week since those results came in, I
thought you might be refering to something else and I was
curious to know what it might be.
Anyway, thanks for your conforting words and let's hope
for a better future for Austria.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Since it's now been a week since those results came in, I
> thought you might be refering to something else and I was
> curious to know what it might be.
Nah. I'd been away & we hadn't corresponded.
What do you hear from Tony?
> Anyway, thanks for your conforting words and let's hope
> for a better future for Austria.
My friend, I think it is on the way.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> What do you hear from Tony?
Nothing really. I've mostly kep to myself,
waiting to see what's going to happen.
Philippe
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
I'm removing the army & pressing on.
Put in a good word for me with Russia, please.
Ben
Message from England to England
Kind of sad to see MAR - PIE - TYR - MUN - RUH. . .
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
Thanks, I should be fine over here. Italy talks to me occasionally, but
I think he's just setting me up for the stab. Austria will probably be
going down in flames soon.
jason
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Thanks, I should be fine over here. Italy talks to me occasionally, but
> I think he's just setting me up for the stab. Austria will probably be
> going down in flames soon.
:-)
You know, when Eric took Norway from me, he was very nice about it, too.
Godspeed, my friend.
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
No doubt. :-)
Trouble is, Italy will get me if Russia doesn't. Rock and a hard place,
as they say!
Godspeed to you as well.
jason
England: REMOVE Army Yorkshire
France: BUILD Fleet Marseilles
France: BUILD Army Paris
Germany: BUILD Army Berlin
Italy: BUILD Army Rome
Russia: BUILD Army Sevastopol
Russia: BUILD Army Warsaw
Turkey: BUILD Fleet Smyrna
Centers
Austria: 4
England: 3
France: 6
Germany: 5
Italy: 5
Russia: 7
Turkey: 4
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