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France: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) can retreat to Greece
Italy: Army Rumania can retreat to Galicia or Sevastopol
Message from Italy to England
> Make the change. Move Silesia->Bohemia.
Done.
> If not, we should be able to get the troops home by Christmas.
Or even the weekend. :)
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
> Make the change. Move Silesia->Bohemia.
Done.
> If not, we should be able to get the troops home by Christmas.
Or the weekend. :)
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Robert, I actually tried to change my moves, but before I got a
confirmation the move processed.
I'm going to bed now and will sleep well. Talk to you tomorrow.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England, France, and Russia
Gentlemen & Nick,
It's been a wonderful game. I've enjoyed it immensely. Hope everybody has
a happy holiday.
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
I'm at a loss for words. He's the lowest form of scum on the face of the
earth. My apologies but I must now allow France to achieve a solo victory.
I actually sent my change of orders but the results arrived prior to my
change in orders. Didn't the results arrive early?
Message from Italy to France
Whatever you want. I will not defend a single center and if you force me to
dislodge a unit I will disband it rather than retreat [except this turn
since I need to pay Mr Russia back as much as I can].
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and France
Gentlemen,
We have been headed in this direction for some time now, and
I believe that we should be able to eliminate Italy, and declare an
EFR three-way pretty rapidly. Italy will undoubtedly try to throw
the game to France, but unless Xavier accepts Italian support into
Russian positions, that will not happen. Ivy I apologize for deceiving
you, but I felt the time had come for Italy to depart our company.
So, how do we want to play this out?
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
Might I suggest that you disband F Bul, rather than
retreating to Greece, and rebuild in Mar? If you're
sincere about not going for the solo, you really do
not need the third Fleet in the Eastern Med, and
Italy is almost certainly going to disband F Con,
and offer you all his Centers, anyway, so you don't
need it to defend against him.
A Hopeful,
Nick.
Message from Italy to Russia
What I don't understand is why you felt it necessary to perpetuate a total
charade and farce. Just let moves play out. I can respect and even admire
a stab but a boldface lie, turn after turn, deserves what it gets. How you
can even sleep tonight is beyond me.
As if it matters, Ivy and I both tried to change our orders at the last
second but the moves processed as we were changing our orders. The end
result would not have changed though.
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
>What I don't understand is why you felt it necessary to perpetuate a total
>charade and farce.
England stabbed me in 1907; you stabbed me in 1909;
I felt that a strong France was my best hope to avoid
elimination, and that required playing a deceptive
game. It's not at all my normal style, but I lacked
the Units, and the defensible position to play a
"normal" game.
>How you can even sleep tonight is beyond me.
I did what I felt was necessary to avoid elimination,
and to have a chance at the draw. Dying honestly
has no value in Diplomacy.
>Ivy and I both tried to change our orders but the moves processed as we
>were changing The end result would not have changed though.
Had you changed to the orders I suggested, France
would have had to focus more on defending in the
West, which would have increased my chances of
keeping him from soloing in the East. Now we'll
see whether he's been lying to me all along, I guess.
You played a good game, but you gave up too much to
get to the corner, I think.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Ding Dong Ding
The Bells are ringing throughout France in celebration!
Thank you for keeping your word and helping to end this thing more
quickly! I did not wait for the results last night. When I downloaded
my messages I was confident that you had followed through since there
were so many. Typically there would have only been a single note from
you. And upon reading the results, I was correct.
I have no plans to go for the solo. I need to study the map and think
about the retreat. The fastest course for setting up a pseudo stalemate
position will be my goal. I want to remain enough of a threat when
Italy is gone that you and England will vote for the draw, but do not
want to appear too threatening that you would change your mind about
eliminating Italy.
--Xavier
PS: I haven't heard from Ivy, what does he think of all this? I will
have to write him and Roberto back, but will do so later.
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I am sorry for what happened. I realized that I was
pushing for it, but I feel bad when people get betrayed,
even when it is not me doing the betraying :-) Not sure
if I should be playing this game :-) But I do enjoy many
aspects of it.
/Begin Substance/
I am not certain where you will retreat. If Sev, you can
hold it. But Galicia has more possibilities.
I am thinking that your best removal might be Bul and
then move fleets to Ank -> Arm. But you could also
remove Con. I am speculating and am interested to see
what you decide. I know you have a strong grasp on the
tactics than I.
Whatever your plan, I want to let you know that I will
not actively work with your units right now. I feel it
best to stay on the path of moving peacefully towards the
three way draw. Your plans should be independent of my
forces.
however, I will accept whatever information you will
offer and we can try to avoid getting our units in each
other's way.
/End Substance/
Thanks for the holiday wishes. The same to you and your
family.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I am curious to hear your thoughts on the situation. My
plans are to carefully work towards the three-way draw in
a manner that minimizes risk and makes it very likely
that the two of you will vote for it.
--Prince Boar
PS: The Dauphin wants to know what your obsession with
Picardy is all about?
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
>Ding Dong Ding
>The Bells are ringing throughout France in celebration!
Yes, but are they celebrating the upcoming French
Solo, or just my attack on Italy? ;^}
>When I downloaded my messages I was confident that
>you had followed through since there were so many. Typically there would
>have only been a single note
>from you. And upon reading the results, I was correct.
Well, the number of notes I send is generally more
influenced by the amount of time I spend online, than
on whether or not I'm breaking a promise. 8-)
>I need to study the map and think about the retreat. The fastest course for
>setting up a pseudo stalemate
position will be my goal.
Pie S Ven, Adr S Ion will stalemate me for at least
five years.
>I want to remain enough of a threat when Italy is
>gone that you and England will vote for the draw,
>but do not want to appear too threatening that you
>would change your mind about eliminating Italy.
I would consider an FR two-way, but I do not trust
Ivy enough to think about an ER one. If you pull
back a bit in the East Med, I can build in StP, and
shore up my defense against England. If you remain
strong in Austria, I have to defend against your
solo bid, even though you say you're not going to
make it.
If we're going to consider a two-way, the Stockholm
Line seems the most practical for us to achieve.
http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/Zine/S2001M/Ledder/TwoWayDraws.html
>PS: I haven't heard from Ivy, what does he think of all this? I will have
>to write him and Roberto back, but will do so later.
I haven't heard from him, yet, either. Roberto
doesn't understand why I lied to him so much. *shrug*
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>Well, the number of notes I send is generally more
>influenced by the amount of time I spend online
I have only a second, so I will be brief (if that is
possible).
I was unclear in my last message. I meant that (after
the results) typically I would only have one message
total and it would be from you. This morning there was
four total messages (I did not yet know whom them were
from). So I figured that something happened between you
and Italy. Otherwise I would only have gotten the one
note from you saying "Sorry". So I had a good guess at
the results before I looked at them.
I do not know about that stalemate line. I think that it
would be really hard to achieve and take a long time.
But I have not studied it very much. The most reasonable
ones may have you holding France. I do not know if I
could bite that one off either :-) It looks more like a
three way than a two way possibility. But we have some
time to discuss.
--Xavier
PS: I convinced the Dauphin to disband the Bulgarian
Fleet, per your request. He is heart-broken because it
was our first fleet built. He has some sentimentality
after all. Just do not tell him that I said so.
I do not know why the adjustments have not come through.
Either Italy is pondering his decision or else someone
has set wait.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>I actually sent my change of orders but the results arrived prior to my
>change in orders. Didn't the results arrive early?
I too submitted new orders that were not accepted. By the clock on the
wall, I should have had another two or three minutes. I wasn't wearing my
wristwatch, however, which is accurate to within a second or two.
>I'm at a loss for words. He's the lowest form of scum on the face of the
>earth. My apologies but I must now allow France to achieve a solo victory.
Ah, but it looks as if Nick will have the last laugh on you. See the
following message:
>Message from Russia to England and France in 'titleist':
>
>Gentlemen,
>
> We have been headed in this direction for some time now, and
>I believe that we should be able to eliminate Italy, and declare an
>EFR three-way pretty rapidly. Italy will undoubtedly try to throw
>the game to France, but unless Xavier accepts Italian support into
>Russian positions, that will not happen.
So you see, Russia has a 3-way, and all the world will applaud his
genius. I know that we have been a bit of an obstacle to the Russian
master plan. I can only hope that observers will be kind and not sneer at
us. We have so much to learn.
Most cordially yours,
Ivy Wingo
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>I do not know about that stalemate line.
That's why I included the link. 8-) I'd never heard
of it before reading the article, either, but we're
not that far from it as we stand, now.
>It looks more like a three way than a two way
I can accept an EFR three-way, or an FR two-way.
(Well, technically, I'd also accept a Russian Solo,
but I don't see that happening. 8-)
>PS: I convinced the Dauphin to disband the Bulgarian
>Fleet, per your request.
My thanks.
>I do not know why the adjustments have not come through.
I set wait to give myself time to convince you to
disband the Fleet. ;^} I'll set no wait, now.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> unless Xavier accepts Italian support into
>Russian positions, that will not happen.
This should be interesting.
> Ivy I apologize for deceiving
>you, but I felt the time had come for Italy to depart our company.
There is no need for apology whatsoever. Nor was there any
deception. After asking me if we should stab Italy and then later asking
me what Italy's moves were, it was pretty obvious what was going on. You
will see from my correspondence with Italy late last night that we expected
the result.
I was away yesterday until late in the evening. I managed to get hold of
Italy around 11:15, I think. We agreed that, if you were helping France,
we had nothing to lose by your moves. We actually both tried to change
moves but time expired on us. I got the results seconds after submitting
your suggested moves.
You and I agreed on eliminating Italy. We just disagreed (severely!) on
when it was intelligent to do so. I hope your decision was a good one, but
I fear it wasn't. Fortunately, we don't have to debate who was
correct. Events will determine that for us.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
Easy question first:
>PS: The Dauphin wants to know what your obsession with Picardy is all about?
It was meaningless. I had nothing better to do.
>I am curious to hear your thoughts on the situation.
Nick and I agreed that Italy could be eliminated, but disagreed (severely,
it turns out) on the timing. I wanted the three of us to reduce you to
about 10 units until we were something like 10-8-8-8. At that time Italy's
6 pieces would be overextended, and I hoped we could eliminate him in
safety. Nick is not particularly patient or disciplined, however.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>This should be interesting.
It will be that...
>We agreed that, if you were helping France,
>we had nothing to lose by your moves.
Yes, those moves actually put us in a better position
to encourage France to behave, it's too bad you didn't
get them in, in time. Of course, we should still be
able to do it this Spring...
>You and I agreed on eliminating Italy. We just disagreed (severely!) on
>when it was intelligent
>to do so. I hope your decision was a good one,
France has agreed to disband F Bul rather than
retreating to Gre, which I take as a hopeful sign.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
>France has agreed to disband F Bul rather than
>retreating to Gre, which I take as a hopeful sign.
Are you surprised that the retreats are not in yet? My guess is that
Prince Boar and Italy are working on the details of the Italian surrender.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >France has agreed to disband F Bul rather than
> >retreating to Gre, which I take as a hopeful sign.
>Are you surprised that the retreats are not in yet? My guess is that Prince
>Boar and Italy are working on the details of the Italian surrender.
I had Set Wait to allow time to convince the French
to disband the Fleet. I Set No Wait just before I
replied to you, so they may come thru soon.
Nick.
Message from Italy to France
>
> I am not certain where you will retreat. If Sev, you can
> hold it. But Galicia has more possibilities.
>
My order is to retreat to Galicia.
> I am thinking that your best removal might be Bul and
> then move fleets to Ank -> Arm.
>
Close, current plan is remove Bul and then fleets bla-arm; con-bla
>
> Whatever your plan, I want to let you know that I will
> not actively work with your units right now. I feel it
> best to stay on the path of moving peacefully towards the
> three way draw. Your plans should be independent of my
> forces.
>
No problem.
But what three-way draw are you talking about? You're not a carebear right?
You have 14 centers at my count and I will give you 4 of my 5 centers this
year if you want them. Actually, I'd support you into SEV as well in the
fall.
> however, I will accept whatever information you will
> offer and we can try to avoid getting our units in each
> other's way.
>
England sent me this note:
-----------------------------
Ah, but it looks as if Nick will have the last laugh on you. See the
following message:
>Message from Russia to England and France in 'titleist':
>
>Gentlemen,
>
> We have been headed in this direction for some time now, and
>I believe that we should be able to eliminate Italy, and declare an
>EFR three-way pretty rapidly. Italy will undoubtedly try to throw
>the game to France, but unless Xavier accepts Italian support into
>Russian positions, that will not happen.
So you see, Russia has a 3-way, and all the world will applaud his
genius. I know that we have been a bit of an obstacle to the Russian
master plan. I can only hope that observers will be kind and not sneer at
us. We have so much to learn.
-----------------------------
All I ask is that you take the victory that you so deserve and do not accept
a 3-way draw. The way I see it, if you take my centers (ser,bul,con,ank)
that should give you a solo by pure mathematics. To get a 3-way, Russia has
to take some of my centers or you have to give him some. Now, I think we
all know that EIR working together as a cohesive unit could have done some
serious damage to your position. What would happen if you move toward a
3-way and then ER decide not to accept it? They would have a similar
position to EIR of a couple of years ago. It would be a shame if it turned
out that YOU were actually the one being set-up the whole time.
One last question and you can refuse to answer if you want but it would let
me sleep better. Did you set draw this spring?
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
>
> Ah, but it looks as if Nick will have the last laugh on you. See the
> following message:
>
Doubtful unless France is a carebear.
Just assure me that you were not part of the charade. I would be extremely
disappointed to learn that.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> >Message from Russia to England and France in 'titleist':
> >
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> > We have been headed in this direction for some time now, and
> >I believe that we should be able to eliminate Italy, and declare an
> >EFR three-way pretty rapidly.
>
The best of luck to you. You'll need it.
Idalia
Message from Italy to Master
Doug,
Can you check in on the timestamp of the USVG judge for me. My email has
the results arriving at 8:22 pm, a full eight minutes earlier than they
should have.
In this particular case, I'm glad it happened :) but I think the clock needs
to be synchronized with the rest of the world for future games.
Thanks,
Ken
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
> > Ah, but it looks as if Nick will have the last laugh on you. See the
> > following message:
> >
>
>Doubtful unless France is a carebear.
I thought my sarcasm was transparent.
>Just assure me that you were not part of the charade. I would be extremely
>disappointed to learn that.
I was not. You can read all about it when the press becomes
available. [Will anyone ever wade through all of that?]
I advocated reducing France to about 10 units. That meant getting his 4
southeast provinces. When we were about 10-8-8-8, then I suggested it
might be safe to eliminate Italy. Your 6 active units would have been
stretched rather thinly by then. While I would have much rather eliminated
Russia, that would have been difficult with you unable to grow. That's
what I was saying anyway. What would have actually happened is anyone's guess.
Ivy
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
> >I believe that we should be able declare an
> >EFR three-way pretty rapidly.
The best of luck to you. You'll need it.
I knew it was a calculated risk. We'll see whether
I misjudged Prince Boar, or not.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England
>
> I thought my sarcasm was transparent.
>
My bad. Missed that one.
>
> I was not.
>
I knew you weren't.
> You can read all about it when the press becomes
> available. [Will anyone ever wade through all of that?]
>
Eventually, I will. But, not for a couple of years. :)
> I advocated reducing France to about 10 units. That meant
> getting his 4 southeast provinces. When we were about
> 10-8-8-8, then I suggested it might be safe to eliminate
> Italy. Your 6 active units would have been
> stretched rather thinly by then.
>
This I could have respected. You may not believe this, but I actually would
have supported my own elimination if it meant a legitimate (non-carebear)
three way between EFR.
I've never actually thrown a game before. Threatened to on many occasions
but the other soul came to his senses. I guess it is true - there is a
first for everything.
Enjoy your holidays.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Master, England, France, and Russia
>
> Game 'titleist' order #044 (F1911R) has a deadline of Fri Dec
> 07 2001 22:33:53 -0500.
> Those who haven't gotten their orders in will be abandoned if nothing
> is received by Mon Dec 10 2001 22:33:53 -0500.
>
No set wait. No mention of a power not having orders in.
Why haven't the retreats processed? [It's been like this for at least 45
minutes]
Doug, feel free to use the 'process' command and get me out of my misery.
Italy
Message from Italy to France
Here are a set of moves for you to chew on for next year - completely on the
level.
bla - arm
con - bla
aeg/smy - con [with con-ank and the other fleet to con in the fall]
tyr supp ser - tri
gal supp sil - war
rum s gal
gre - bul
alb - ser
in the fall, tri supp tyr-vie for the solo.
No tricks. Nothing up my sleeve.
Roberto
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I will try to address your other comments later, although
a few I may avoid if it seems best. Feel free to ask
again if it is important enough. I do understand your
points. I will answer this one now:
>Did you set draw this spring?
Yes I did. I set it with the note that I officially
stated that I had done so. I did not remove it. I have
confirmed this in my private (press to f) messages. You
can read them after the game if you are so inclined. I
do not know who would have the free time to read it all
:-) (I did not set draw in the fall though.)
--Prince Boar
Message from France to all
For the record, I have my retreat in and have not set
wait.
--Prince Boar
France: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) DISBAND
Italy: Army Rumania → Galicia
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