|
|
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I have entered my retreat order to Sev. Unless something new develops, I
>agree to attack Moscow per your request. I would definitely like to see you
>succeed in balancing French growth.
Wonderful! My goal in this is to discourage France from trying to initiate
a Russian/French attack on me. That would be bad for both you and me. It
would weaken or stall me and strengthen Russia, while giving Italy an even
freer hand against you. If Russia is really weak, then it is less likely
that France will think this could be profitable.
> I assume the move to Bel was made with
>his blessing?
Yes, but I better protect it in the fall. Returning to my goal, it is much
better for France to stake all on an English/French ending with the risks
that entails. However, we all know that a third party usually makes all
the difference in these endings. The third party can play off one power
against the other, bargain for another unit or two, threaten to throw the
game, maneuver for a 3-way, etc. I want that third party to be
you. Russia is too fond of France. Italy is too treacherous and is not
communicating.
>Any new word on Italy's threat to change course should France take Italian
>home centers?
No, nothing new. Given that he has taken Rumania, somehow I doubt that he
will turn around now. Especially since he has four units on Bulgaria. Who
knows though? If Italy truly believes that he is doomed, he may indeed
turn around. He carried out his threat to not defend Italy; maybe he will
carry out his threat to give units to you. For some people, their word
becomes very important when all else is lost.
> I am, of course, urging France to take Rome as well as Naples
>this year.
Me too. I even suggested to Germany that, since Munich is lost, he might
as well go for Vienna.
I'll let you know if anything develops.
Ivy
Message from England to France and Russia
Nick and the Prince,
I'm still here, but suddenly very, very busy. I'll ponder Nick's latest
suggestions, while contemplating the likelihood of Skag->Norway.
Ivy
Message from England to Master
Doug,
Here are my comments on 1906, long overdue.
*************************
1906 from the English perspective.
Stay the course. That is, work toward my goal of growing with France and
hope that I can do well in a 2-way ending or a 3-way ending with Turkey as
the third power. I hope Russia remains weak so that France is not tempted
to try to organize an FR attack against me. So far, so good.
I don't know if others are discussing this game. Perhaps boredom has set
in. Still, here is a question for discussion:
What should Italy have done when the French fleets appeared in the
Mediterranean? Was his cause lost, even though he had nine units?
Allen Schweinsberg
Message from Observer to Observer
From: Douglas T. Massey E-mail: masseyd@b...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The English player in 'titleist' submitted an End-of-Year statement
and would like to pose this question to the observers:
"What should Italy have done when the French fleets appeared in the
Mediterranean? Was his cause lost, even though he had nine units?"
Responses you make here will be included in the Showcase of the game
on the Diplomatic Pouch at game's end, so feel free to share your
wisdom with the masses!
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont
\o ASICs Product Development Engineering |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~masseyd (|)
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>I want us to be thinking about the future.
Always a good idea.
>Will the provinces that you and I own at the end of the year be relatively
>permanent? Except for StP -- that's understood.
Frankly, I don't see how they can be, unless we
launch an immediate attack on France. (Given
Italy's behavior, that may not be such a bad
idea, but it's not my first choice of strategies.)
>What should I do? Must I go to war with you or France?
Either, one of those, or order Hol-Ruh this Fall,
and then move on to Munich next year as France shifts
south, and you continue to convoy Armies to Holland.
>France wonders if I will attack you next year.
I'm wondering the same thing... ;^} Nwy-Swe,
Nth-Den would position you nicely to take me out.
>What is he saying to you? Anything? Nothing?
He hasn't done more than respond to my letters
since we resumed the game, with the exception of
asking why I wanted to move Den-Kie. He's expressed
a consistent interest in seeing me grow, but has not
yet raised the prospect of cooperation against you
if I actually manage to achieve significant growth.
Once I retake StP, perhaps the idea will occur to him.
>For what it is worth, Italy and Turkey are dead silent.
I got a response from Italy endorsing my suggestion
that we cooperate against Turkey as he defends against
France, but he didn't send it until AFTER the Spring
moves went through, so his suggestion of Gal S Lvn-War,
Ukr-StP was not particularly practical. 8-)
>I wish I adjoined one of them.
I prefer neighbors who talk, it's much less nerve
wracking, and if you get stabbed, at least you have
the comfort of having been stabbed by a player you
can respect. (This is NOT an invitation to you to
stab me, however! ;^)
We will actually be pretty well positioned to stab
France, if you decide to go in that direction. I
suppose we could hope that Germany will take the
predictable route, and use Sil to defend Ber or Mun,
and order Ska-Swe/Den, and order Nwy-Swe, Nth-Den,
War-Sil to eliminate Germany, and Yor-Wal, Bel-ECh,
Hol-Bel, Edi-Cly to stage for the attack on France.
(I'm not insisting on this, by ANY means, but it
is a definite possibility.)
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Master to England
I'll pass your question on to the discussion group, Allen. Most
of the others are also submitting EOY's, so I encourage you to
continue.
Doug
Message from Italy to Germany
I could probably convince the army in Galicia to support Sil-War if you are
interested.
Idalia
Message from Germany to Master
Doug:
Can I have an extension until Tuesday? I'll be out of town
Germany
Message from France to all
Sorry for my silence of late. I am in class W-F all day and only have
limited time at the computer. Last night I hurt my forearm/wrist area and
it was too painful to type. This morning, I cannot seem to get into my
usual e-mail. Hopefully that will be cleared up by tonight or even
possibly lunch time.
I will write when I can, meanwhile keep sending those love letters :-)
--Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
Extension at player request.
Doug
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
Neither of us made mention of it when the moves arrived, but I want to tell
you that by moving your rear fleet eastward you gave me great reassurance.
Thank you.
Nick asked you to comment on what we should do (meaning what should England
do) in Scandinavia. Please hold off replying if you will, for I am going
to prempt debate and simply announce my moves in a joint message to you and
Russia. I'll be the bad cop.
I am moving to both Sweden and Denmark. It denies Germany a refuge and
gives me a second build. If you take Rome, which I encourage, you too will
have a second build. While trying to remain even, I don't mind us being
one unit apart in strength.
Russia may, or may not, interpret my announcement as a sign of impending
attack. That is, in fact, what it is. I am fully committed to marching
west to east in tandom with you. I will make my announcement sound a
little defensive, noting that I need to be even with France. Also, I will
note that I will support Belgium with Holland, which has nothing better to
do. Whether Russia gets worried or not hardly seems to matter. What could
he do if I simply declared war?
It occurs to me that I have never seen a formal, public declaration of war
in Diplomacy. Do Diplomacy instructions still indicate that declaring war
is an option? I haven't seen a new boxed set in many years.
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
I was sorry to hear about your arm, and hope it
was nothing serious. Germany should end the year at
zero to two Centers, and will effectively cease to
being more than an annoyance once he disbands. This,
of course, raises the question of what happens next
year. Any ideas? Italy is obviously hoping that
England will attack you, and Ivy is somewhat
concerned that you might attack him, while I have to
be concerned that Ivy will come after me.
If you're willing to continue your attack on
Italy by moving Mun-Tyl next year, and allow Ivy to
move from Hol to Mun, and then on to Boh, we can
actually maintain this EFR alliance, and push
southeast to eliminate Italy and Turkey, I think.
Given their silence, it certainly seems an
appropriate course to me, but I am willing to
consider other options. Please write when you can,
and let me know what you're thinking.
Nick.
Message from Germany to Italy
I'm ordering SIL to WAR, thanks
I'm also ordering TYR to support TRI - VEN In case you want that.
Fredd
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
I thought I would touch base with you.
France and Russia and England are engaged in what I would call uneasy
cooperation. With the upcoming demise of Germany, possibly as early as
this year, something will have to give between the three of us.
France does not divulge to me just what he is doing in Italy. He is in
Naples, but not Rome, when he could have been in both. Does he plan to
enter Rome in the fall? I don't know. I recall you once stated that you
would hand centers to Turkey if France took any of your home supply
centers. Are you now asking France to depart from Naples?
For what it is worth, my old ally Fredd knows that he is on his way
out. He may go quietly, although he is at least contemplating
Tyrolia-Vienna just to hang around. Thought you might like to know.
Cordially,
Ivy Wingo
Message from Observer to Observer
> The English player in 'titleist' submitted an End-of-Year statement
> and would like to pose this question to the observers:
>
> "What should Italy have done when the French fleets appeared in the
> Mediterranean? Was his cause lost, even though he had nine units?"
He certainly made it difficult for himself by not responding as soon
as France built F Mar. Tys-Rom was a bizarre choice.
Even after S1906 he should have been able to blockade France - e.g.
Nap S Rom, Gre S Ion. He would still have needed to persuade Turkey
that if he (Italy) couldn't hold France off then Turkey had no long
term future, so that Turkey would leave him alone. But since a
France who has conquered Italy is a serious solo threat, that
shouldn't have been difficult.
Mind you, Italy is hardly dead in the water even now. If he can
guess right a couple of times and do terminal damage to Turkey by the
end of next year then he may be able to counterattack, if the French
solo threat grows to the point that in induces a stab by England.
That's his main hope now - I doubt he can create a bolthole in the
southeast which will allow him to be part of a draw.
Robin Walters
Message from Observer to Observer
Right - this is basically what I was thinking. Once France built F
Mar and certainly once he stormed into the Med, Italy needed to do
something. Hindsight is of course 20/20 but it's pretty obvious that
his current strategy isn't working, at least to the observer's eyes -
we can't see partial press.
He may have been trying to finish off Turkey in time to get some
builds to fight off France. Or maybe Turkey wouldn't bury the
hatchet. Seems though that Turkey wanted Italy to go fight France -
didn't one of his EOY statements say something about italian suicide
bombers - I took this to mean just that.
Anyways, giving up your home centers is never good - even if you get
builds you can't use them, and taking your home centers back requires
2 years to get a useful build (since the first year you take it back
by definition the center is occupied)
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., "Robin Walters" <r.g.walters@v...> wrote:
> > The English player in 'titleist' submitted an End-of-Year
statement
> > and would like to pose this question to the observers:
> >
> > "What should Italy have done when the French fleets appeared in
the
> > Mediterranean? Was his cause lost, even though he had nine
units?"
>
> He certainly made it difficult for himself by not responding as
soon
> as France built F Mar. Tys-Rom was a bizarre choice.
>
> Even after S1906 he should have been able to blockade France - e.g.
> Nap S Rom, Gre S Ion. He would still have needed to persuade
Turkey
> that if he (Italy) couldn't hold France off then Turkey had no long
> term future, so that Turkey would leave him alone. But since a
> France who has conquered Italy is a serious solo threat, that
> shouldn't have been difficult.
>
> Mind you, Italy is hardly dead in the water even now. If he can
> guess right a couple of times and do terminal damage to Turkey by
the
> end of next year then he may be able to counterattack, if the
French
> solo threat grows to the point that in induces a stab by England.
> That's his main hope now - I doubt he can create a bolthole in the
> southeast which will allow him to be part of a draw.
>
> Robin Walters
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I apologize for the delay in writing. I had a carpal
tunnel pain. It hurt to do anything and typing was out
of the question. But it is better today.
I am sorry that I cannot bounce with you in Venice. I
promised to hit Tyrolia and it is something that I cannot
back out of. I know that this doubles Germany's chance
to sneak into one of your centers. I apologize for that.
Given that Germany must worry that I might go for
Venice, that one is probably already safe from him.
If your request was also partially to defend Venice from
me, I will understand if that is the location that you
will choose to cover. All I can say is that I will not
move there, the rest is up to you. I of course do not
want to know which center you will choose to cover, just
in case you guess wrongly.
I could hint to Germany that I was going for Venice if
that would help you. But there is a chance that he would
then move there just to spite me. Whom do you think that
he wants to punish more? It is probably best that I just
say nothing to him; but if you disagree, please let me
know.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I am getting to some old messages.
I guess that if we had been working closely together from
the beginning it may have set off all sort of alarms.
The key would have been to disguise it as long as
possible and keep others guessing that at any time we
might side with Italy or Russia and stab the other. But
against really good players, I admit that would have been
difficult. But in theory you and I are really good
players, so we might have been able to pull it off ;-)
:-)
>Do you mean that you don't wake up screaming and
>sweating in the middle of the night because you dreamt
>that all your units have vanished?
My nightmares usually consist of massive amounts of
foreign armies wandering around France. :-)
>Neither of us made mention of it when the moves arrived,
>but I want to tell you that by moving your rear fleet
>eastward you gave me great reassurance.
>Thank you.
You are welcome. I admit that I debated holding one
fleet back as defense. But I decided that I have come
this far with blind trust, why not cover both eyes and
rush headlong into the fire. :-)
>simply announce my moves in a joint message
I did not see this. Is it still in process or did
something go wrong?
I will simply tell Nick that I will not get involved in
the discussion, wishing to stay neutral.
>Do Diplomacy instructions still indicate that declaring
>war is an option?
The wonderful thing about this game is that you can do
whatever you like, even broadcast discussions on
philosophy, if you so choose. :-) Of course if I saw
someone make such a public declaration, I would immediate
wonder if it was just a ruse. I have seen them in anger,
and I have seen them trying to hide and alliance
(especially RT).
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>I would welcome the Dauphin's (theoretically)
>disinterested opinion.
I think that it is best to stay out of it openly. There
is too much going on between you and Ivy jockeying for
the future.
If you think that Fredd is smart enough to see Skag ->
Norway, then you might want to let him know that you see
it too, as does Ivy. He is less likely to try it if he
knows he will not be tricking anyone. It will just be a
1-in-3 chance (England can cover two of Swe, Den, Nor).
But if he has not seen it, you hurt yourself by putting
it into his head.
You can promise him something for next year if he does
bounce England from Den or Swe? But is he more inclined
to want to help you or spite you? He could also let it
get back to Ivy? It is all very tricky and I trust that
you will figure something out. I think that I would
prefer that you not mention this conversation to Ivy, by
the way. I want to appear as neutral as possible. But I
*do* want you to get a build! If you end up with one
stored for the future, that is even better.
>I was sorry to hear about your arm, and hope it
>was nothing serious.
It was a carpal tunnel pain. It hurt to do anything and
typing was out of the question. Luckily it is gone now.
Thank you for asking.
>This, of course, raises the question of what happens
>next year. Any ideas?
A very provocative question. But an important one
nonetheless. Obviously ERF cannot stick together
indefinitely. Sure, we could get England into Germany
(probably giving you more of Scandinavia) and keep things
going for a while. But that probably will not last long.
We both need to be very careful.
>Italy is obviously hoping that
>England will attack you, and Ivy is somewhat
>concerned that you might attack him, while I have to
>be concerned that Ivy will come after me.
All real possibilities. England and I are not really set
up to attack one another. It could happen, but it would
be very long and slow. I would say that the only way
that I would take on this task is if he was at war with
you and you were a viable threat to him.
What are your thoughts and plans for the future? Are
they as fuzzy as mine are?
--Xavier
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
I will do as much as I can this year. Next year I will
be able to do even more, as I will not need to walk so
carefully.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> But in theory you and I are really good
>players, so we might have been able to pull it off ;-)
>:-)
Yes, I see the wink and smile. In all seriousness, I doubt that we are any
better than the others in this game, with perhaps one or two
exceptions. In any one game so much luck is involved. Had not a certain
chance event occurred in an early round, I probably would not have been
here. And in another game I saw a truly first-rate player eliminated
because he happened to be on the wrong side of the continent.
> >simply announce my moves in a joint message
>I did not see this. Is it still in process or did
>something go wrong?
No, nothing went wrong. When I saw the postponement of the deadline, I
simply took a Diplomacy breather. After 9:00 this morning I should be able
to get out the message to you and Nick.
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
> >I would welcome the Dauphin's (theoretically)
> >disinterested opinion.
>I think that it is best to stay out of it openly.
I understand that, but I would still welcome the
Dauphin's sense of what Fredd (and Ivy) will do.
>is he more inclined to want to help you or spite you?
I expect that his most likely action will be to
spite me. From the moment I ordered Mos-StP in S'01,
he seemed too focus entirely too much attention on me.
> >This, of course, raises the question of what happens
> >next year. Any ideas?
>A very provocative question. But an important one
>nonetheless. Obviously ERF cannot stick together
>indefinitely. Sure, we could get England into Germany and keep things
>going for a while. But that probably will not last long.
I don't know. Ivy's behavior so far has
suggested powerful care-bear tendencies. (I'm not
a stabber by nature, but realistically, Ivy should
have stabbed Fredd much earlier than he did.) So,
if you give him a path to continued growth, (Ruh,
Mun) we could have a decent shot at eliminating
Italy and Turkey before trying to get down to a
Solo or 2-way.
> We both need to be very careful.
Definitely.
>What are your thoughts and plans for the future? Are they as fuzzy as mine
>are?
Assuming I don't get stabbed this Fall, or in '08-'09,
I will have built three Armies, and perhaps one Fleet,
so attacking England isn't really a practical option.
My hope is to hold the EFR coalition together and grow
to be the dominant Power in the East. It still seems
unlikely that I'll manage to do that, though.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Just quickly, Prince Boar claims he can't see
attacking you unless I'm fairly strong, and you
attack me. I've proposed that he let you move to
Ruhr, and then to Munich to be able to send Armies
against Italy.
In Haste,
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I got your message while halfway through composing a message to both you
and France. That note will arrive shortly.
>I've proposed that he let you move to
>Ruhr, and then to Munich to be able to send Armies
>against Italy.
My problem with this is that it would advertise to the Prince that Belgium
is undefended. He could retake Belgium in addition to Rome and Naples (and
possibly Venice) and build two (possibly three) to my zero!
I will definitely defend Belgium as explained in my joint note, which is
almost finished.
Ivy
Message from England to France and Russia
Gentlemen and fellow Hunaphobes,
Sorry for the 24 hour silence, but I took some time off when I saw the
deadline extension. Also, I've been worrying a little. Please don't take
offense at my worrying. It's not personal, and I am sure that we all go
through the exercise of asking ourselves, "what could go wrong?"
What if the Prince takes Belgium instead of Munich? Then I build
zero. What if the Prince takes Rome, in addition to Naples and presumably
Munich? Then he builds two units and goes two up on me. He could even try
for Belgium, Venice, Rome and Naples -- all four -- and build three to my
zero.
This situation is different from that of 1905 when I willingly gave
Belgium to my enemy France and when, shortly thereafter, the Prince left
both Paris and Brest undefended next to my units. Back then we took great
risks in order to save the game from Italy.
This time, I just don't see any need to take a risk. For starters,
Holland will defend Belgium. It has nothing better to do anyway. Also,
I've decided to block Germany from both Sweden and Denmark. As indicated
earlier, this dooms Germany if he makes expected moves. Yes, it also gives
me a second build -- at Germany's expense. But France will get one or two
builds, and this permits me to keep pace. That's important to me.
The only risk whatsoever is that Germany might try Skag->Norway. This
would definitely hurt Nick, but I really, really, really think this has
almost no chance of occurring. Skag->Norway would be pointedly
anti-Russian, and Fredd has given every indication of favoring Russia as he
goes down. He hasn't even written to me in a long time. I'll put money on
Skag->Swe.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
I found it hard to strike the right tone in that joint message. Everything
was intended to mask and/or justify my moves to Sweden and Denmark, one of
which will succeed. What I fear is not Russian objections, but endless
messages from Nick that try to persuade me to change my mind. He is a very
determined negotiator.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
It is very important that France believes that Belgium will be protected.
[Recall our many messages back and forth at the start of the game in which
I insisted that I would protect Norway with the North Sea when you wanted
the North Sea to take Belgium! Of course I wanted to take Belgium and did,
but I tried to be believable when I insisted that I was going to protect
Norway. I am sure you saw through that. Or was I convincing? Please tell
me I was convincing.]
>We will actually be pretty well positioned to stab
>France, if you decide to go in that direction. I
>suppose we could hope that Germany will take the
>predictable route, and use Sil to defend Ber or Mun,
>and order Ska-Swe/Den, and order Nwy-Swe, Nth-Den,
>War-Sil to eliminate Germany, and Yor-Wal, Bel-ECh,
>Hol-Bel, Edi-Cly to stage for the attack on France.
>(I'm not insisting on this, by ANY means, but it
>is a definite possibility.)
Now I must think about this. Should I play it safe (probably) or go for this?
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and France
Gentlemen,
>Message from England to Russia and France in 'titleist':
>
>I've been worrying a little. What if the Prince takes Belgium instead of
>Munich? Then I build zero.
Yes, but we'd also be left with a two or
three Center Germany, and France would be firmly
established as a target for all of us. It seems
foolish and therefore unlikely. The three of us
are working well together, and it would be unwise
to dissolve that partnership while Italy and Turkey
are able to regroup.
>This time, I just don't see any need to take a risk. Holland will defend
>Belgium.
That's your choice to make, of course, but
Hol-Ruh does position you to push toward Italy if
we continue to cooperate.
>I've decided to block Germany from both Sweden and Denmark. As indicated
>earlier, this dooms Germany if he makes expected moves. Yes, it also gives
>me a second build -- at Germany's expense.
Umm, no, it's at MY expense, and it could easily
become three builds for you, and none for me. Don't
try to set up a stab of me as defense against France,
Ivy, we're all to accomplished to fall for it. If you
want to play safe in Belgium, that's your concern, but
moving to Sweden and Denmark without my permission is
NOT the act of an ally!
>The only risk is that Germany might try Ska->Nwy. but I think this has
>almost no chance of occurring. Fredd has given every indication of
>favoring Russia as he goes down. He hasn't even written to me in a long
>time. I'll put money on Skag->Swe.
I told Fredd that I wouldn't support an attack
on Kiel if he disbanded War and GoB, and while I
don't know if that influenced his disbands, I doubt
that he's pleased that I took Kiel, and will take
Berlin this Fall. Given that I could well end up
taking War, Kie, and Ber from him this year, he has
little, if any, reason to favor me. Indeed, his
actions throughout this game have been largely
anti-Russian. You're welcome to put money on
Ska-Swe, but don't bet my Centers, Ivy. ;^)
Will Fredd come up with Ska-Nwy, Sil-Boh on
his own? That's hard to say, but he has made some
clever moves in the past, and even if he doesn't
think of it himself, someone could leak those moves
to him. I'm sure you'd apologize, but I'd rather
have the builds than your apologies. 8-)
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
My letter to you and Prince Boar does represent
my feelings on the matter, but it also serves to set
up the French stab if you move to ECh and Cly as I
laid out. I think we are better off continuing to
work together and eliminate Italy/Turkey before
trying for a two-way or Solo, but if you want to
stab France at this point, the moves I laid out
earlier, should prove effective, and if you "stab"
me at the same time, I might be able to gain useful
information from France, and take Mun from him by
surprise. It's your call.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Umm, no, it's at MY expense, and it could easily
>become three builds for you, and none for me. Don't
>try to set up a stab of me as defense against France,
>Ivy, we're all too accomplished to fall for it.
This is much clearer than the earlier:
>For the Fall, Kie S Pru-Ber, War-Sil, Pie-Tyl, Ruh S Bur-Mun, Nwy-Swe,
>Nth-Den, will eliminate Fredd, unless he orders Sil-Boh and/or Ska-Nwy.
>Fredd is unlikely to issue either of those orders, but I think Nwy S
>Edi-Nth, Nth-Hel is probably the better bet. Opinions?
which I thought left the door open for discussion.
Finally, your private note
> My letter to you and Prince Boar does represent
>my feelings on the matter, but it also serves to set
>up the French stab if you move to ECh and Cly as I
>laid out. I think we are better off continuing to
>work together and eliminate Italy/Turkey before
>trying for a two-way or Solo, but if you want to
>stab France at this point, the moves I laid out
>earlier, should prove effective, and if you "stab"
>me at the same time, I might be able to gain useful
>information from France, and take Mun from him by
>surprise. It's your call.
makes everything completely clear. Moves to Sweden and Denmark are an
absolute no-no unless accompanied by a stab of France. Clear and fair.
On my part, I too need to be firm on one decision. I don't want to agree
to Holland->Ruhr. Leaving Belgium undefended and telling France that I am
doing it is just too risky for me. Losing Belgium would mess up any plan
that I might contemplate. Holland->Ruhr does make sense as a spring idea.
Back to the issue of stabbing France or playing it safe. [OK, there is a
third option -- attacking Russia -- but it's not possible now. It could
still be an option if I played it safe this turn, as could attacking
France, for that matter.] I will try to reach a conclusion this weekend
and let you know on Monday. I can still communicate over the weekend, if
you need to explore the matter further.
Ivy
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> Don't try to set up a stab of me as defense against France,
>Ivy, we're all to accomplished to fall for it.
Gee, it worked in other games. 8-(
In fairness to Nick, he also sent a private note in which he indicated that
the moves to Sweden and Denmark would be OK as long as they were
accompanied by a stab of France: Hol->Bel, Bel->Channel, etc. That would
be a puny stab compared to what was available earlier.
I am attacking Sweden and Denmark, as I indicated to you, followed by more
eastward movement next year.
Have you decided what you will do with Rome? I have not heard from Roberto
in ages.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
I'm at work, so I'll try to make this quick. (That
tends to be tough for me for some reason. ;^}
>Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> >Umm, no, it's at MY expense, and it could easily
> >become three builds for you, and none for me. Don't
> >try to set up a stab of me as defense against France,
> >Ivy, we're all too accomplished to fall for it.
>
>This is much clearer than the earlier:
>
> >For the Fall, Kie S Pru-Ber, [...], Nwy-Swe,
> >Nth-Den, will eliminate Fredd,
>which I thought left the door open for discussion.
>Finally, your private note
>
> > My letter to you and Prince Boar does represent
> >my feelings on the matter, but it also serves to set
> >up the French stab if you move to ECh and Cly as I
> >laid out. if you want to
> >stab France at this point, the moves I laid out
> >earlier, should prove effective, and if you "stab"
> >me at the same time, I might be able to gain useful
> >information from France, and take Mun from him by
> >surprise. It's your call.
>
>makes everything completely clear. Moves to Sweden and Denmark are an
>absolute no-no unless accompanied by a stab of France. Clear and fair.
Yes, my views have shifted somewhat as I have written,
but I think that the advantages gained in eliminating
Germany completely this year do not outweigh the risk
that I won't get a build, unless you also commit to
attacking France.
>I don't want to agree to Holland->Ruhr.
I have no problem with this. It's a very
pro-French move in a lot of ways, and honestly,
whether you move there this Fall, or next Spring
(as you convoy to Hol), would have no real effect
on your Southern push. (Assuming you decide to
take the Hol-Ruh-Mun-Boh-Vie highway.) (This
didn't really occur to me until after I wrote to
you the last time.) I really don't see France
attacking Bel, though, even if you did agree to
Hol-Ruh. (At least, if he's going to stab you,
he doesn't trust me enough to ask me to help.)
>Back to the issue of stabbing France or playing it safe. I will try to
>reach a conclusion this weekend and let you know on Monday.
Given how over-extended I am at the moment, (and
my natural inclination to ally with people who write),
my feeling is that continuing EFR makes the most
sense. We might want to insist that France only build
Fleets in Mar, though, to keep him from surging into
solo position.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I will attempt to catch up.
>endless messages from Nick that try to persuade me to
>change my mind.
So how has that been going? I was going to tease you
that I would write him and egg him on. But I am sure
that there is no need for that. And I am sure that part
of his persuasive technique is to try to direct you
towards France. So in any notes to him I will just wish
him luck, basically stay out of it. I will try to sick
him on Germany. If he wastes his time trying to trick
Germany into doing what he wants, that gives you a
breather. At a minimum, it annoys Fredd :-)
>Gee, it worked in other games. 8-(
Yes, I have found in this tournament that trying to be
tricky and cute can be very dangerous. The players are
less likely to fall for it. I am sure that you will calm
him down.
>In fairness to Nick, he also sent a private note in
>which he indicated that the moves to Sweden and Denmark
>would be OK as long as they were accompanied by a stab
>of France: Hol->Bel, Bel->Channel, etc. That would
>be a puny stab compared to what was available earlier.
Yes, pretty weak stab. This is the beauty of our current
position. A stab would be so fruitless that it makes it
not worth trying. Hence, we have a more stable alliance.
But of course you know that the effectiveness of the stab
is not what matters to Nick. It is the fact that you
will have betrayed me. This will cause a war between us
which will draw many of your resources. He may not like
that this helps Italy grow, but he would like that you
would may leave him alone or have your backside exposed
to him.
>I am attacking Sweden and Denmark, as I indicated to you
Good. But you did not mention the fact that you will
not be moving to the Channel. Can you confirm that you
will not? It is good to get these things out in the open
and not assume. :-)
>Have you decided what you will do with Rome?
I have to take it so that Roberto will not build. But I
will only gain two centers, just like you. I know that I
have one more unit. But look how far away from home most
of my units are. Paul Windsor would say that is good. I
say that is also dangerous :-)
--Prince Boar
PS: My orders have been in since Friday morning, without
wait.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
> That was a pretty bold statement made by England! How
> are you taking it? Not much you can do about it but try
> to talk him out of it and hope for the best. It does add
> strength to my suggestion that we both be careful. My
> plans involve being prepared. Perhaps yours should as
> well.
Well, I did suggest that move right after the Spring Results
came through, as a way to eliminate Germany this year, but
further thought made it seem unnecessarily risky. Ivy accepted
my admonition that moving Nth-Den, Nwy-Swe without my
consent was not the act of an ally, and I've since made it clear
to him that I think I have more cause to worry about Germany,
than he does about you.
> If you cannot convince Ivy, then you may have to attempt
> to talk or trick Germany into moving to Sweden or
> Denmark.
Ska-Swe is actually his most likely move, I think, but I'd
rather see me get two builds, and have to save one for next
year, than see Ivy get two.
Nick.
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>So how has that been going?
I owe Nick a note, but will probably delay until this evening or early
morning. This is the part of Diplomacy that is no fun whatsoever -- being
required to lie to someone you respect. I know the likelihood is small,
but what if Russia and Germany combined at this stage? That would be most
inconvenient. They could keep me out of Sweden/Denmark and you out of
Germany. So in response to Russia's inquiry I will say that I am not
aiming for Sweden/Denmark. I will also say that I am not attacking you,
for with a Germany that is still alive I will have something else to keep
me busy next year. I think that will be more believable than telling
Russia that I am following his wishes and am attacking you with an attack
that anyone can see would be weak and nonproductive.
> >I am attacking Sweden and Denmark, as I indicated to you
>Good. But you did not mention the fact that you will
>not be moving to the Channel. Can you confirm that you
>will not? It is good to get these things out in the open
>and not assume. :-)
I am not moving to the Cahnnel. Hmmm. Neither am I moving to the Channel.
We should have 17 units after this year. That's a milestone worth noting.
The Steelers play Tampa Bay today, then Tennessee and Baltimore. We will
soon know if they are any good at all.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I'll just cool my heels this fall. Germany can have either Denmark or
Sweden, and I will not attack France. With Germany still alive, that will
still give me something useful to do next year. It will be Norway hold and
Edi->Nth->Skag.
I also need to say this in a joint message to you and France so that the
Prince is not surprised by my change in plans.
Ivy
Message from England to France and Russia
Gentlemen,
Envoys from the tsarist realm have made a persuasive case for letting the
German live, albeit barely, for one more year. Germany can have his choice
of Denmark or Sweden with Nick guaranteed to keep the other. Thus, Norway
will hold, but I will order North Sea->Skag to follow on the heels of the
German fleet. We can sink it next year.
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
It occurred to me yesterday morning (note the timing) that I should propose
the following to you. When we are at the point of, say, 15 units each, we
agree that the winner should be you if the Packers have a better record
than the Steelers and me if the Steelers have the better record. Cute
perhaps, but
I knew that would be a rather stupid agreement on my part.
Now I am not so sure.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and France
Ivy Wrote, >
>Envoys from the tsarist realm have made a persuasive case for letting the
>German live, albeit barely, Thus, Norway will hold, but I will order North
>Sea->Skag to follow on the heels of the
>German fleet. We can sink it next year.
My thanks. I would, of course, welcome the
end of German military strength, but I do not feel
that I can afford to sacrifice Russian growth at
this point to accomplish that worthwhile goal.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
Whew, one crisis averted. I can't see Ivy
agreeing not order attack Swe and Den, and then
doing so. It would gain him nothing, so I am
confident he will issue the stated orders.
If I might ask, what are your plans in the
Med? We have the potential to actively work
together there as early as next year, if things
go as planned.
Nick.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
Would you like me to tap Gal, so that you can
retake Rum from Sev? (War-Gal, Bla S Sev-Rum,
Bul-Ser would do it, I think.) Let me know.
Thanks,
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I agree that we have a chance to work together next year
in the Mediterranean. I prefer to wait until then before
talking too much about my plans. Bascially I am going
slow to keep Ivy (and perhaps you) happy.
After this fall, and when we find out for sure if both of
us has averted our potential crisis with Ivy, we can
begin to really discuss the future.
I am anxious to do so, but feel that it is best to keep
my cards close to the vest this season.
I do wish you luck and truly hope that you do get that
build!
--Xavier
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I would have jumped at your Packer-Steeler bet. I am
glad that I had not choice to do so. :-) Of course the
Packers have had a rough 3 games. TB, Bal, Min (IN MIN).
Things should get more reasonable from here. I think
that you mentioned that Pit has things challenging for a
while. So in 3 more weeks we will see who has the best
records. GB has their bye this week.
As for the game, I am just waiting for the ineviatable
late message and then the delay until the orders process.
:-) I am sure that Nick was happy with your message.
Unfortunately it was necessary. I may have to deliver a
similar one to Italy next year. Although he has not
written in a long while, so maybe it will not be
required.
--Prince Boar
Our motto: 17!
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>I agree that we have a chance to work together next year
>in the Mediterranean. I prefer to wait until then before
>talking too much about my plans. Bascially I am going
>slow to keep Ivy (and perhaps you) happy.
Understood. I think that going slow in terms of growth,
is probably best. Nap-Apu, TyS-Ion, Ion-Adr, Tus-Rom
has potential, though... ;^}
>I do wish you luck and truly hope that you do get that
>build!
Any word from Fredd, Roberto, or Ali?
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>Any word from Fredd, Roberto, or Ali?
No, No, and No. :-)
Roger
Message from Russia to Master and France
Doug, and Roger,
I don't know how you want to handle this, but I
figured that I should bring it to your attention.
( I also don't know how I've managed to avoid it
so far. ;^} )
Russia in 'titleist'
---------------------------------------------------
>Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>Nick:
>
> >Any word from Fredd, Roberto, or Ali?
>No, No, and No. :-)
>
>Roger
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> I am sure that Nick was happy with your message.
>Unfortunately it was necessary. I may have to deliver a
>similar one to Italy next year.
Uh, you mean that Roberto hasn't gotten a wee bit suspicious of you yet?
>Our motto: 17!
After all that I have put into this tournament, two long years now, I would
be more than happy with a 17-17 handshake.
Ivy.
Message from Master to France and Russia
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>Doug, and Roger,
>I don't know how you want to handle this, but I figured that I should
>bring it to your attention. ( I also don't know how I've managed to
>avoid it so far. ;^} )
Play on. Keep all communication through the Judge (even in the event
of a Judge outage).
I hate "anonymous" games. :-)
Doug
Message from Russia to Master and France
>Message from Master to France and Russia in 'titleist':
>
>I hate "anonymous" games. :-)
Which Power insisted on Gunboat? We could eliminate him,
if we haven't already, and then make it non-gunboat. ;^}
Nick. (Nick, keep signing them "Nick"!)
Message from France to Master and Russia
>>Roger
Ack ack ack! Darn it!
I have almost done that dozens of times and then caught
it and changed the name. I was in too much of a hurry.
There is a good chance that you already suspected;
although I have tried very hard to hide it.
Sorry for messing up.
France
Message from Russia to France
>Message from France to Master and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> >>Roger
>Ack ack ack! Darn it!
>
>There is a good chance that you already suspected;
>although I have tried very hard to hide it.
Nick nods, 'Yes, it was pretty clear to me that you
were playing England or France.'
>Sorry for messing up.
It's nearly impossible to avoid. On a couple of
occasions, I've either sent a message too fast, and
left off the "Endpress/Signoff", or mis-typed them,
and sent out ISP/Email program info that could have
revealed me to whomever I sent the message to.
(stop and think... 8-)
Nick.
England: Fleet Belgium HOLD
England: Fleet Edinburgh → Norwegian Sea
England: Army Holland SUPPORT Fleet Belgium
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Yorkshire → Denmark
England: Fleet Norway → Sweden (*bounce*)
England: Army Yorkshire → North Sea → Denmark
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Ruhr → Munich
France: Fleet Ionian Sea → Adriatic Sea
France: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea
France: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia (*bounce*)
France: Army Ruhr → Munich
France: Fleet Tuscany → Rome
France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea
Germany: Army Berlin → Prussia (*bounce, destroyed*)
Germany: Army Silesia → Warsaw (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Skagerrak → Sweden (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Italian Army Trieste → Venice (*void*)
Italy: Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Galicia → Rumania
Italy: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Galicia → Rumania
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Trieste → Vienna
Russia: Fleet Kiel SUPPORT Army Prussia → Berlin
Russia: Army Prussia → Berlin
Russia: Army Warsaw → Silesia (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Ankara SUPPORT Fleet Smyrna
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Bulgaria HOLD (*destroyed*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Sevastopol → Moscow
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna HOLD
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