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Message from Observer to Observer
From: Douglas T. Massey E-mail: masseyd@b...
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I'm trying to get things set up so the Judge will automatically send
public results to this newsgroup.
Doug
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___, IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont
\o ASICs Product Development Engineering |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~masseyd (|)
Message from France to Master
Doug:
Now that everyone is signed on, when will the game officially start? I
will be out of town on Friday PM and Saturday and want to be prepared. I
do not need a deadline extension, just please do not start the press
Friday at Noon. It is bad to miss the first two days of a new game. :-)
Why did I not get notices when other players signed on? Is the game
silent or something? I really do not understand all those flags. But I
am guessing that we will not get to know who to be annoyed with when
they are late? :-)
Regards,
Roger
Message from Master to all
Welcome to 'titleist', the championship game of the 2000-01
Vermont Group Full Press Tournament. The first round reduced
49 players down to 21 and the second round reduced us down to
these seven. They've earned their way into the final and I
wish them the best.
The name 'titleist' refers to the fact that the winner will
consider himself the champion or title-holder for full-press
Diplomacy in the Vermont Group. This winner will be a soloist,
or the largest member of a draw. If the two largest members
of a draw are of equal size, they will be declared co-titleists.
'titleist' is also a very popular brand of golf balls and
golf equipment, which fits in well with the tendencies of your
game master. :-)
I'm capturing all partial press for display as a showcase game,
so keep in mind that your words will be recorded for posterity.
Keep the potty mouth to a minimum. ;-)
I've set the press to WGP-, and moved the first deadline to Friday,
July 13. There are two players who are in and out a bit early
on, so I don't want anyone short changed in the first season.
Let's come out swinging!
Doug
Message from France to all
Bonjour Europe and La Grande Assemblage of Observers.
Je m'appelle Prince Xavier Boar!
My father has grown ill and my brother, the Dauphin, has
taken over the day to day running of France. Since the
eldest tends to inherit the property and titles, most
often the second eldest turns to a religious education.
I am no different. But being the son of the King of
France, I could not follow a career in the Clergy,
therefore I have settled for being the spiritual leader
of France. I leave the teaching of religion to our
Bishops and the Church; I focus instead on philosophy and
the arts. Given that I am a "people person", by brother
has allowed me the privilege of being France's embassy to
Europe.
I pledge to take up this office with vigor and faithfully
fulfill my duty to both France and my neighbors in
Europe. I leave you with this motto which describes
myself, my brother, and our father.
France, her pen, her sword, and her legacy.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Friend in Germany,
My first letter goes to you as I see a potential strong
ally and a very important neighbor. Before we get into
the details of troop movements and treaties, I ask the
favor of discussing a philosophical issue with you. I
have often wondered at the parallelism between the
English-German relationship and the Turkish-Austrian one.
So many people feel that the Turkish-Austrian alliance
is untenable, strongly favoring Turkey. Austria gets
caught up between two wings of Turkish units and
eventually those wing collapse in an effective betrayal
and stab. I understand that there are times when the
alliance can be effective, but so very often the Austrian
refuses to consider it; and when he opts for it, he
regrets it.
When I look at the northern situation, the English-German
situation looks greatly parallel. Yet there is so often
an English-German alliance. I have often seen the Brit
collapse on the German with a might stab. But the German
is so seldom loath to engage in such a dangerous
alliance. To top off the situation, England has such an
strong defensive position and Germany has all those
coastal centers exposed to the British fleets.
I am sure that my humble strategic abilities are missing
the obvious. I have asked the Dauphin, but he gets
frustrated when I do not follow his lightening fast
explanations of fleets and armies and key supply centers.
Perhaps can you fill me in why Germany would consider
such a seemingly lopsided alliance? This would clear a
cloudy mystery with which I have struggled. In addition,
armed with that knowledge I may better argue with you why
France would be a superior ally.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Friend in England,
I send the warmest greetings from France. Before we
struggle over necessary, but boring, details such as
demilitarized zones and distribution of supply centers, I
thought I might start with a discussion of philosophy.
France's goal is to find a loyal and constant ally and,
under the strength of that friendship, advance to the end
game. You will not find France to be a country that
constantly changes side at a whim and for a small gain.
We seek a long term, steadfast, ally with whom we can
evenly divide the gains.
On a further philosophical note, I have long wondered why
the Turkish-Russian alliance is call the Juggernaut. It
seems to me that the English-French alliance is just as
strong. It also has the advantage in that it does not
get stalled against an alliance of equal strength. In
the T-R case, the Italian-Austrian alliance opposes it.
I suppose that a Germany-Italian alliance may stall an
active English-French alliance, perhaps with some Russian
help. It just seems silly to talk in awe about the TR
alliance when the EF alliance can be just as effective.
Perhaps you can enlighten me on what my humble strategic
mind is missing. I have asked the Dauphin, but he gets
frustrated when I do not follow his lightening fast
explanations of fleets and armies and key supply centers.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Friend in Italy,
I look forward to many conversations with you. I hope
that they will be filled with arguments for influencing
each others policies and activities in opposite ends of
Europe. I would dread that they would pertain to
discussions pertaining to a possible or, I shudder at the
thought, actual invasions by one of us on the other. I
believe that both our countries can benefit from a strong
and active peace between our countries.
In fact, I have read many military articles on the
subject. Usually I must turn to the Dauphin to explain
them due to though my limited strategic capabilities.
However on the subject of Italian-French interaction I am
please to say that I have followed them quite well. They
claim that it is not in Italy's best interest to engage
in an attack on France. In such a case Germany and
England tend to take the Lion's share, and eventually
Italy's share of the spoils. The articles go so far as
to say that it is not in Italy's best interest to see
France defeated by Germany and England. And if France is
invaded, they suggest that Italy should step in to help
defend France, often by putting pressure on Germany
through Tyrolia.
I wonder what you think of these ideas. Is this common
thinking in Italy? Or do you believe it to be a load of
bunk, probably written by a Frenchman posing as a
military expert.? I realize that it is difficult to
generalize, but I would like to here your ideas, if only
to enlighten me further on this topic. I am particularly
interested in hearing your thoughts on a long lasting
peace and complete demilitarization of our border.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Austria
Austria,
I send my welcome to you and hope to develop a strong
relationship. Although it is not impossible for us to
interact immediately, I realize that it is unlikely. I
do hope that a time may soon approach where we may
interact. Therefore a long standing line of open
communication will be a great asset at that time. If you
have nothing else to say at the time, send me a good
poem or even a funny joke. The former I will appreciate
and the latter can be used to amuse my father as he
rests.
If you are willing to share this information, I would
like to be kept informed about your relationship with
Italy. I will pledge to do the same. Rest assured that
any information you give me will not leave my desk. I
have a handy Shredder2000 that I will use religiously to
destroy such information. Well, it is actually a Monk
who likes to eat paper, but he is quite effective. I
will never pass on your messages or information.
As a sign of good faith I will tell you that I seek to
have a neutral relationship with Italy. That may allow
you to develop a strong relationship with Italy to turn
back any Juggernaut that may develop.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Russia:
Greetings from France. Our countries seem so far apart
and yet we have so many common areas of interest. I
suspect that for at least the first year we may not need
to directly interact. But we may be share information
and work together to setting up a commonly desired
situation in the West and East.
Do you have any strong preferred paths to glory? I once
knew a composer who insisted that writing a single
masterpiece was the best way to fame and fortune and he
would not play in public anything that he considered to
be less than that. Meanwhile others have steadily played
small performances and improved their fame slowly. I
know not which is the best course, but expect that there
are many routes to one's desires. And I believe that
this is true in Diplomacy as well. Whether we arrange
the defect of England and then press Germany between us,
or the opposite does not matter in the end. There are
certainly other options as well. I suspect that the path
that we follow may not present itself openly for a year
or two as plans much remain secret and until an open war
is declared, we will not know for sure the truth.
At any rate, I look forward to many interesting
conversations. I promise that they will be less
confusing than this message! I should not write when it
is late! The candle grows low in the holder.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Turkey:
I send my warmest greetings to you. Of all the great
powers, I realize that we will have the least amount of
interaction in the near term. However, the day may soon
come, our mutual gods willing, when we may be able to
interact. I pledge to continue to talk with you until
that glorious day arrives. Meanwhile we can share
information and a good oaths when things go poorly.
I hope that you will not attempt to turn Italy my way. I
will pledge to not do the opposite. Perhaps you can talk
Italy into attacking Austria? Anyone but one of us!
Best of luck to you.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar
A very interesting opening. Let's do as you suggest and look at a FG
alliance from the same perspective of AT.
I'll admit that there has been times when I've done exactly as you
say. I've been Austria and basically refused to ally with Turkey. For
exactly the same reasons that you state. Turkey has to go around both
sides of Austria. Creating a pincher which can snap shut at any time.
I'll also admit that that I made a mistake in rejecting Turkey from the
start. It turned out that Turkey was the superior player. He was also
much easier to work with than my allies. Perhaps a AT wouldn't work in
the long run, but I wish that I had a least tried it for a few years. I
would have enjoyed that game much better. I won't make that mistake a
2nd time.
Turning to the FG situation, there are similarities and differences.
The biggest difference is that France doesn't have to completely
envelope Germany as in the case of Turkey around Austria. There is the
southern option, which is available to France. France can move against
Italy without raising much concern in the German homeland at all.
This, in fact, will leave Germany to undertake 'adventures' to the
northwest. England would be a problem under this scenario. If either
Germany or France attacks England with too much force the other will
become very suspicious. Three French fleets north of the MAO and
Germany will be sweating bullets. Similarly, a couple of German fleets
in the North Sea and beyond, coupled with two armies near the French
border and the French will wonder about blitzkrieg.
Turning to another subject. I'm greatly looking forward to this game.
The other rounds of this tournament played our quite differently than
normal full press games. When the only goal is to get to the next round
it's easy to play for the draw. Now that there are no more next rounds
we all must go for the win. I suspect that we'll see this game ebb and
flow like nothing that has gone before. I wonder (out loud) if a
superior strategy might be to partner up with someone through the mid
game, and at that time both 'partners' go for the win.
Fred
Message from Germany to all
Hear Ye. Hear Ye. The Great Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
Frederick XXXIV extends his well wishes and salutations to all the
other noble rulers of Europe. Emissaries of the higher order are on
their way to your capitals. They bear gifts of great value and mystery.
Please receive them with kindness and wisdom.
Emperor Frederick.
Message from England to Germany
My dearest Freddy,
Greetings, old chap!
How would you like to have Norway? Please read on.
I am interested in a three-way attack on France and a GEI split of France,
Iberia, and Belgium. Even if Italy prefers to go east instead, I still
would like the two of us to take on the Frenchman.
There are several reasons why this might interest you. First of all, I am
tired of giving France his choice of England or Germany for an ally. That
reduces our own odds of finding a decent friend to 50-50, instead of the
2/3 opportunity that is fairer. Also, killing France has the additional
advantage of eliminating someone who is likely to be an extremely strong
and dangerous player to both of us if he gets moving with any strength
(someone who probably got his first choice of nations).
France usually gets his pick of England and Germany, because E & G tend to
view each other as natural enemies down the road. Well, I have seen highly
successful EG alliances, just as I have seen good TA alliances. It's a
matter of finding the right kind of ally and making intelligent agreements.
That's where Norway comes in. You are less likely to worry about our
future if I am clearly working in the south and heading for the
Mediterranean. If you had Norway, and all of Scandinavia for that matter,
then we have an excellent separation of forces. Yes, I expect to take
Norway in year one, but it can be handed over as soon as we are successful
and I have compensation elsewhere. Of course this means that, whether
Italy does or does not join in on the kill, he would likely be a next
target.
Please get back to me soon, for I will, of course, write France and be as
friendly as I can. I am not so naïve as to think that I should put all my
powder in one canoe. But you have my first offer and my first letter!
May I also say, by way of introduction, that I think you will find me an
easy-going ally who listens, who responds quickly, who stays calm, and who
has a sense of humor. Even though I try very hard and attend to detail,
nevertheless I'm in it for fun and don't take this business too seriously.
Courteously,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Austria
My dearest Austria,
Greetings, old chap.
Our immediate common interests are few, although we both wish to keep an
eye on Russia. Should we have any business to discuss, soon or far down
the road, I hope you can count on me to listen to your concerns and ideas.
Am I overlooking anything important?
Courteously,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to France
My dearest Prince Boar,
Greetings, old chap.
Forget about the Hundred Years War and the Seven Years War and Napoleon and
all of that. They were just wee misunderstandings. What say we start
afresh?
In short, I am not adverse to joining forces for the purpose of harassing
Huns, Lombards, Slavs, and Turks. My suspicion is that you are an
experienced and highly successful master at this trade, and I would much
rather have you on my side.
May I also say, by way of introduction, that I think you will find me an
easy-going ally who listens, who responds quickly, who stays calm, and who
has a sense of humor. Even though I try very hard and attend to detail,
nevertheless I'm in it for fun and don't take this business too seriously.
Your colorful prose does not mask an essential message that I find very
attractive. Your philosophy of loyalty and constancy suggests that you
find long-term alliances to be a key for success. I couldn't agree more.
While I certainly wish to give all my neighbors a hearing, it would
surprise me if any of them offer friendship in terms more inviting than
yours. You and I are off to a very good start, old chap.
Courteously,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Italy
My dearest Italy,
Greetings old chap.
I have an offer to make and a wee favor to ask.
The offer is Spain and Marseilles, which, as you can surely deduce, would
be yours if we carry out a quick IEG strike on France and split France,
Iberia, and Belgium three ways. This is easily done, and it is especially
favorable to the two of us, for we are nations who often have difficulty
going beyond four centers. Furthermore, it probably has the additional
advantage of eliminating someone who is likely to be an extremely strong
and dangerous player to both of us if he gets moving with any strength
(someone who probably got his first choice of nations).
The wee favor is that of a quick reply. If you are confident that you
would rather try your skill to the east (the usual), then I would wish to
court both Germany and France in search of an ally. The sooner I know your
thoughts the better. Of course, I will also ask the German if he is
interested in a triple attack on France.
May I also say, by way of introduction, that I think you will find me an
easy-going ally who listens, who responds quickly, who stays calm, and who
has a sense of humor. Even though I try very hard and attend to detail,
nevertheless I'm in it for fun and don't take this business too seriously.
Courteously,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Russia
My dearest Russia,
Greetings, old chap.
I haven't forgotten the invaluable aid that you rendered at old Waterloo.
Wasn't that was a wee tussle! We really ought to work together more often.
In short, I am not adverse to joining forces for the purpose of harassing
Huns, Lombards, Franks, and Turks. I suspect you are an experienced and
highly successful master at this trade, and I hope to have you on my side.
Should you wish to concentrate your attention on southern matters, then we
can still be respectful of each other's interest in Scandinavia. I vow to
take Norway with a fleet; that's least threatening to Russia. While I
cannot tell if Germany will be friend or foe, if the former then I will
urge him to avoid conflict in Sweden. If the latter, then you will be more
than welcome to nibble at the Hun from the rear.
May I also say, by way of introduction, that I think you will find me an
easy-going ally who listens, who responds quickly, who stays calm, and who
has a sense of humor. Even though I try very hard and attend to detail,
nevertheless I'm in it for fun and don't take this business too seriously.
Courteously,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Turkey
My dearest Turkey,
I believe it is traditional for England and Turkey to agree to meet in,
say, Warsaw around 1910 or thereabouts. Sounds good to me. Our immediate
common interests are few, maybe Russia, maybe even Italy. Should we have
such business to discuss, I hope you can count on me to listen to your
concerns and ideas.
Am I overlooking anything important?
Courteously,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to all
To: diplomats of Europe
From: Ivy Wingo
My nom de guerre, "Ivy Wingo" may be odd in that it has nothing to do with
war or diplomacy or politics. However, I like its somewhat romantic ring,
suggestive, perhaps, of characteristics of my true persona: honesty, honor,
harmlessness, faithfulness, integrity, loyalty, and innocence.
Let's have a wee contest. An actual, tangible, prize awaits the first
person to identify the real Ivy Wingo. Who is/was he? You are on your
honor (yes, honor!) not to consult any references whatsoever. Either you
know of Ivy Wingo or you don't. Surely, someone out there must be familiar
with him.
Remember, a real prize awaits the first to tell me who I am. Offer expires
if I expire.
Message from Russia to England
Something tells me that Ivy Wingo was a friend/associate of J. R. R.
Tolkien, and C. S. Lewis, at Oxford. (The Notion Club, perhaps?) I know
I've seen the name
before, but it's not quite clicking.
Tzar Nicholas II
P.S. Thank you for your mail, and I will respond formally to it once I get
my
Opening Broadcast sent out.
Nicky.
Message from Master to all
Okay, I just posted this to r.g.d:
Observers to this game can't comment on the game on USIN, but members
of 'vgfp_titleist' on yahoogroups.com can kibbitz all they like -- the
players are the only ones who won't be permitted to join the mailing
list. So if you'd like to discuss the game with others, join that
mailing list.
I should have included the list of participants (all JDPR's referenced
are as of March 7, which sucks, but is still relevant. They don't
include the semi-final results and are thus likely to be even higher
than listed):
Allen Schweinsberg: his 1716 JDPR rating is ninth among active players.
He's played 14 games on record, with victories in 'highland' and
'pinecone' on USEF, 'samband' on TWUT, and 'vgfp0005' on USIN in the
first round of the tournament, as well as five draws. Focuses largely
on full-press games and was ranked #6 on that list at the end of 2000.
Eric Hunter: 1535 JDPR, rank #23. Three full-game and one partial-game
press solos ('juteland' on USWA, 'eden' on USIN, 'unortho1' on
USBR, and 'rachel' on USIN), along with 11 draws, including a 2WD in
'vgfp0001' in the first round. Plays all types of press; was #19 on
the YE2000 full-press list.
Jeff Stephens: 1379 JDPR, ranked in the top 100. 54 official games
played, mostly full press, dating back to 1995. Three full solos and two
partials ('dilsey3' and 'mudcats' on USWI, 'samakama' on USEF, 'adv1'
on USIN, and 'exp2' on USEF), as well as 23 draws -- including a 2WD
in 'vgfp0012' on USVG and a 3WD in 'vgfp0006' on USIN in the first round.
#28 on the YE2000 full-press list.
Ken Lofgren: 1714 JDPR, #10 amongst active players and on YE2000
full-press list. 58 official games played, with 4 victories ('rubicon'
on USEF, 'test0' on USCA, 'tech4' and 'squash' on USEF) in games with
press, along with many draws, including a 3WD in 'vgfp0014' on USVG.
Mixes no-press tournaments and variants in with a steady diet of
full-press games.
Randy Hudson: 1733 JDPR, ranked #8. 77 games played, primarily no-press
and real-time, with lots of variants thrown in as well. Full-press
victories in 'flyer' and 'burnoff' on USEF, as well as the first round
game 'vgfp0009' on USVG and four no-press games. Only two career losses
in full-press game starts.
Rich Olver: 1271 JDPR. The underdog. :-) Normally, that rating is
one of the top one or two in a game, but not here. Played 34 games,
mostly no-press in recent years. Full-press wins in 'winooski' on USIN,
'vergenne' on USEF, and a 2WD in 'vgfp0008' on USVG in the first round.
JDPR peaked at 1471, before the 1999 and 2000 Vermont Group no-press
tournaments (which didn't go so well).
Roger Yonkoski: 1818 JDPR, #4 amongst active players. Also ranked #3
on YE2000 full-press list with 1825 rating. 25 games played, with
full-press solos in 'primary' on USEF, 'braves' on USNM, 'pride' on
USCA, 'horse' on USWI, 'truth' and 'abby' on USEF, plus a dozen or more
draws. 2WD in 'vgfp0013' in the first round. His loss in 'vgfp0004'
was his first loss, ever, in a full-press game he started. The favorite.
The average JDPR of the players in this game will be calculated at
then end of the game (that's the measurement point for all games).
Given that these players' successes in the second round (not to be
revealed until the final is finished), this is likely to be the
highest rated game in Judge history.
Doug
Message [from England] to all
What is most amazing about the list of players are the missing names.
Where is Ron Poet, #1 in the March ratings and #2 in this tournament after
the preliminary games? Where is Karlis Povisils, former #1 in the world,
currently #2, and #1 in this tournament after the preliminaries? Where is
Michael Andresen, currently #6 in the March ratings, and #3 in this
tournament after the preliminaries?
Arguably, the three best players going into the semifinal round did not
survive.
This is a most dangerous world. Get me out of here!
[Perhaps Rich Olver is the real favorite.]
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
It was great to hear from you. I must admit that I have
not heard of your namesake. I will adhere to your
request and not search out the information. Instead I
will remain curious hoping someone reveals it so that my
curiosity can be appeased. I do think that I will like
you quite a bit. Your irreverence and wit will keep me
smiling. Even feel free to call me Old Chap, despite the
fact that I am quite young! It is contrary to common
logic, which I find enjoyable.
You have described, at least to me, the perfect alliance.
I feel that when two allies communicate, are loyal, are
quick to answer messages, do not ignore questions, and
attempt to keep their alliance balanced; there is little
that they cannot accomplish. I promise to be all these
things. If every I fail in this endeavor, due to being
busy or other, call me on it. I specifically promise to
never ignore one of your questions because it is
uncomfortable or difficult.
I also agree with your assessment that it is wise to ally
with a strong and skilled partner. Seeking out a weak
player hoping to eliminate the strong is a recipe for
disaster. Certainly it is easier to beat the weak player
in the end, but that requires actually making it to the
end in order to have that opportunity. I prefer to take
my chances with a strong ally. I hope that I can offer
France to be such a strong ally. My brother and I make
quite a good team. The Dauphin excels in military
strategy while my strength is in building relationships
and influencing people. I am guessing that you also have
excellent qualities. The fact that you would be a fun
ally is just a bonus!
So what are your thoughts on an English-French alliance?
I think that it can be just as effective as a
Juggernaut, just without the catchy name. But I think
that it is best not to draw attention to it with a name.
How would we go about such a plan? Sure, split up
Germany. But what next? You go after Russia and I go
for Italy? How soon would we have to commit to that next
step?
-- Prince Boar
PS: So, how does one call oneself an Emperor when one
controls only three supply centers. At least Napoleon
waited until he controlled most of Europe!
Message from England to Russia
Nicky,
> Something tells me that Ivy Wingo was a friend/associate of J. R. R.
>Tolkien, and C. S. Lewis, at Oxford. (The Notion Club, perhaps?) I know
>I've seen the name before, but it's not quite clicking.
Sorry, I have nothing to do with Oxford or the chaps you mentioned.
May you live in peace in Sweden.
May I live in peace in Norway.
May our fortunes be entwined,
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
> Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
> > Something tells me that Ivy Wingo was a friend/associate of J. R. R.
> >Tolkien, and C. S. Lewis, at Oxford. (The Notion Club, perhaps
>
> Sorry, I have nothing to do with Oxford or the chaps you mentioned.
Hmm, could he be Red Wingo's older brother? ;-) (The web is a wonderful
thing.)
> May you live in peace in Sweden.
> May I live in peace in Norway.
> May our fortunes be entwined,
But not too closely entwined... ;-)
Nicky.
Message from England to Russia
> Hmm, could he be Red Wingo's older brother? ;-) (The web is a wonderful
>thing.)
Why, yes, of course, but the "rules" excluded consulting any reference.
Rather than question your honor, I will just assume that after your first
guess, you just gave up.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from Russia to all
(St. Petersburg, Russia, Dec. 1900)
"St.
Petersburg Pravda"
"A New Century, A New
Russia, and a New Europe"
In a speech today, Czar Nicholas II, grandson of Alexander II, the
Czar-Liberator, outlined his ideas regarding Russia in the 20th Century.
Here is the text of his speech.
With the ever increasing rate of industrialization in Russia and the
rest Europe, it has become clear that some manner of continental control is
necessary to ensure worker safety, to increase worker salaries, and to allow
their involvement in production decisions, in order to increase worker
satisfaction. Doing so will increase both productivity and profits.
Continental control of production centres will also increase profit and
productivity through the application of economies of scale, and make sure
that the natural resources needed for maintaining these newly achieved
levels of production can be cheaply and efficiently obtained. I, therefore,
propose the formation of a cooperative council to implement and oversee the
achievement of this European Economic Union, and lay out the following
proposed declaration of principles for the EEU.
Declaration of Principles
The fundamental tenets of the EEU movement are that more centralized control
of Production Centers will result in increased productivity and profits.
Secondly, worker unionization will improve safety, worker involvement in
production decisions, worker salaries, and worker satisfaction, and
therefore also increase productivity, thus a more efficient and profitable
economy will develop.
1) The 34 major Production Centers in Europe must be controlled by EEU
Member states.
2) Workers in Europe, both Agricultural, and Manufacturing, must be
Unionized.
3) Worker Unions and Management must negotiate equitable contracts that
protect worker safety, encourage worker innovation, and improve
productivity, and therefore improve management profits, and worker salaries.
4) If Management and Unions cannot agree on a Contract, they will submit to
the decision of the EEU Board of Arbitration.
5) The EEU will not interfere in the internal political, and social, affairs
of its member states.
6) All EEU member states will come to the aid of another member state, if
any member state is threatened by an outside state.
7) Conflicts between member states will be resolved through negotiation, not
the use of force.
8) Overall economic goals and policies will be set by the Union House, which
will have per capita representation from each union, and the Management
House, which will have a representative from each production area that must
negotiate with a union.
9) This overall economic policy will be subject to review by the EEU
Assembly, (a member from each EEU state), and final approval by the three
member Executive Council (Russia, and two members, yet to be determined.)
. These guiding principles are not yet set in stone, and are subject to
amendment by the Executive Council once it is formed, and I am more than
willing to consider the concerns of prospective members of the EEU. Rulers
of Europe, I look forward to speaking with each of you, and I hope to
establish close working relationships with those of you who see the
advantages that the EEU represents for our nations, our workers, and the
world.
Message from Russia to England
> Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > Hmm, could he be Red Wingo's older brother? ;-)
> Why, yes, of course, but the "rules" excluded consulting any reference.
> Rather than question your honor, I will just assume that after your first
> guess, you just gave up.
Well, yes. I didn't see much point in guessing, and
since my first instinct was wrong, I decided to look
him up, and mentioned that fact parenthetically so
you would know I was out of the running.
Russia.
Message from England to France
Noble Prince,
>It was great to hear from you. I must admit that I have
>not heard of your namesake. I will adhere to your
>request and not search out the information. Instead I
>will remain curious hoping someone reveals it so that my
>curiosity can be appeased.
All will be revealed in due time. Not that the answer will be particularly
entertaining. It's just that I've always liked the name and finally
thought of using it.
>Even feel free to call me Old Chap,
Although I think I have a reasonable sense of humor, I've never been good
at sustained role-playing. The "old chap" stuff will probably quickly
disappear.
>I specifically promise to never ignore one of your questions because it is
>uncomfortable or difficult.
And I will endeavor not to ask useless questions such as, "are you going to
stab me this turn?" Or fall victim to nervous fears such as, "but if we
eliminate Germany and Italy and Russia, won't you be tempted to turn on
me?" I do like long alliances. Especially when, say, my ally and I
dominate one side, while another pair dominates the other. In such
situations, it is almost certain folly to stab one's partner because the
other pair promises a love fest afterwards. No, make the other alliance
crack first. If there is going to be a solo, then may it be me or my
partner. If there has to be a 2 or 3-way, may both of us be there. All
very easy to state; all very hard in practice.
>I also agree with your assessment that it is wise to ally
>with a strong and skilled partner. Seeking out a weak
>player hoping to eliminate the strong is a recipe for
>disaster.
And just where do you suppose that one might find a weak player in this
game? I tell you, my knees are shaking.
>So what are your thoughts on an English-French alliance?
> I think that it can be just as effective as a
>Juggernaut, just without the catchy name.
I thought it did have a name, but I cannot remember it, if it does.
> How would we go about such a plan?
Well, calmly. Take Norway, Spain, Portugal. Keep Germany out of Belgium.
OK, so there's a delicate matter. Belgium. I don't care who gets it, but
I do care about the matter of balance that you mentioned earlier. I prefer
not to see a 6-center France, while I have only four. There are lots of
ways around this, but too much is unknown to know so soon what is best.
Will Italy be pounding at your door? Then you may need Belgium. Will
Russia be aiding Germany? Then I probably need Belgium. Will Russia be
attacking Germany? etc. etc. We can even trade Belgium back and forth to
sustain balance, if the the need arises.
>PS: So, how does one call oneself an Emperor when one
>controls only three supply centers. At least Napoleon
>waited until he controlled most of Europe!
Some Holy Roman Emperors controlled virtually nothing. Perhaps that's poor
Freddy's model.
Why are you and I sitting in front of computers on July 4?
May our fortunes be entwined,
Ivy
Message from England to all
>In a speech today, Czar Nicholas II, grandson of Alexander II, the
>Czar-Liberator, outlined his ideas regarding Russia in the 20th Century.
>Here is the text of his speech.
>
> With the ever increasing rate of industrialization in Russia and the
>rest Europe, it has become clear that some manner of continental control is
>necessary to ensure worker safety,
blah, blah, blah ...
>Declaration of Principles
blah, blah, blah ...
Just conquer the world and get on with it, man. 8-)
Ivy Wingo
Message from Russia to France
> Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> Greetings from France. But we may be share information
> and work together to setting up a commonly desired
> situation in the West and East.
I would, of course, welcome the opportunity to exchange information, as
well as vodka for your fine wines, and our tasty black bread for your
delicate cheeses.
> Do you have any strong preferred paths to glory?
Russia and France share the similar gift/curse of being primarily
focused in one direction, but having one Home Centre best suited to exert
influence in the other. I feel this requires a greater awareness of the
"Big Picture", and a measure of flexibility to take advantage of
opportunities wherever they might appear. This is another reason for us to
share information.
Cordially,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to all
> Broadcast message from England in 'titleist':
>
> >In a speech today, Czar Nicholas II, grandson of Alexander II,
>
> blah, blah, blah ...
>
> >Declaration of Principles
>
> blah, blah, blah ...
>
> Just conquer the world and get on with it, man. 8-)
Well, I could have given the standard, "I welcome your ambassadors, and
hope we can all be friends." speech, but I didn't figure anyone would buy
that, either. ;-) I do apologize for the length of my opening broadcast
though. I neglected to write it ahead of time, so it was rather
long-winded.
Nicky.
Message from England to all
Nicky,
> Well, I could have given the standard, "I welcome your ambassadors, and
>hope we can all be friends." speech, but I didn't figure anyone would buy
>that, either. ;-) I do apologize for the length of my opening broadcast
>though.
Heavens, I hope I didn't suggest the need for an apology. With my 20th
Century hindsight, I tend to suspect that Russians are long on the pen, but
put their faith in the sword. Actually I like the "I hope we all can be
friends" approach, at least afterwards. When this is all over, perhaps we
can drink a toast to friendship. If the drinks are contaminated with a wee
drop of blood, well, what's a little blood between friends?
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nicky,
In all seriousness, no offense intended.
I stand by my pledge to take Norway with a fleet and respect your right to
Sweden. I have yet to hear from Germany, and do not know if he will be foe
or friend. France is alive and well. I suspect he is a player of great
skill.
Ivy
Message from Russia to Germany
> Broadcast message from Germany in 'titleist':
>
> Hear Ye. Hear Ye. The Great Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire
> Frederick XXXIV extends his well wishes and salutations to all the
> other noble rulers of Europe. Emissaries of the higher order are on
> their way to your capitals. They bear gifts of great value and mystery.
> Please receive them with kindness and wisdom.
Emperor Frederick,
Good to hear from you, and I await your emmisary. England has indicated
a willingness to occupy Norway with a Fleet, so I hope that we can come to
an understanding regarding Sweden, which will allow me to focus on the
silent south, and you on the wild west. Fleet Kiel -> Holland allows you a
supported attack on Belgium in the Fall of 1901, while
bouncing me out of Sweden gains you little beyond the appreciation of my
southern opponent. What do you think?
Czar Nicholas II
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> We really ought to work together more often.
I am not, at all, opposed to this suggestion, though given the southern
silence, I am reluctant to commit to an early incursion into Germany.
Certainly we can exchange information, and work together where circumstances
allow.
> I vow to take Norway with a fleet; that's least threatening to Russia.
Fleet London -> English Channel, Fleet Edinburgh -> North Sea, Army
Liverpool -> Yorkshire, followed by Fleet English Channel SUPPORT Army
Yorkshire -> Belgium is less threating, yet, but I take your point and would
welcome an English Fleet in Norway.
> While I cannot tell if Germany will be friend or foe, if the former then I
will
> urge him to avoid conflict in Sweden. If the latter, then you will be
more
> than welcome to nibble at the Hun from the rear.
I have heard nothing from him since his opening broadcast, but your
support of my occupation of Sweden would be appreciated. Prince Boar sent
me (and probably everyone) a note after his opening broadcast that
recognized the fact that while it seems that France and Russia are far
apart, we are really only separated by England or Germany, and therefore
have more potential than an inexperienced leader might expect. He's
definitely someone to watch, and be careful about turning your back on.
> May I also say, by way of introduction, that I think you will find me an
> easy-going ally who listens, who responds quickly, who stays calm, and who
> has a sense of humor. Even though I try very hard and attend to detail,
> nevertheless I'm in it for fun and don't take this business too seriously.
We've certainly exchanged the most mail, so far, though not a lot of it
has been Dip related. 8-) I was not the least offended by your jabs at my
opening, (please note all the smiley faces in my response), and I do realize
that it was done in good fun, (and to plant the idea of Russia as an
aggressor in everyone else's minds.). ;-)
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Greetings from St. Petersburg:
Your Ambassador has not yet arrived here, so I thought I would take a
moment to initiate contact between our two Great Powers. As I gaze
westward, I see the opportunity for years of cooperation between us, but for
that to occur we must first establish a measure of trust and communication.
I hope to hear from you soon, and welcome any questions you may have about
the EEU. I have not yet heard from any of the Eastern Powers, but both
England and France seem more than competent. Have you heard from anyone,
and would you care to exchange impressions?
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to Austria
Greetings from St. Petersburg:
Your Ambassador has not yet arrived here, so I thought I would take a
moment to initiate contact between our two Great Powers. The Turks are
bound to attack one of our great nations in 1902 or '03, and then turn on
the other, so I see the opportunity for years of cooperation between us.
For that to occur, however, we must first establish a measure of trust and
communication. I hope to hear from you soon, and welcome any questions you
may have about the EEU. I have not yet heard from any of the Eastern
Powers, but both England and France seem more than competent. Have you
heard from anyone, and would you care to exchange impressions?
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to Italy
Greetings from St. Petersburg:
Your Ambassador has not yet arrived here, so I thought I would take a
moment to initiate contact between our two Great Powers. Given the distance
between our capitals, it might not seem like there is much need for early
discussion, but given that we are both Eastern Powers who could face attacks
from the West if we fail to maintain a careful watch, I see the opportunity
for years of cooperation between us. Indeed, the potential for an alliance
between Italy and Russia is both vast, and underrated, but for that to occur
we must first establish a measure of trust and communication. I hope to
hear from you soon, and welcome any questions you may have about the EEU. I
have not yet heard from any of the Eastern Powers, but both England and
France seem more than competent. Have you heard from anyone, and would you
care to exchange impressions?
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Italy to all
The great state of Italy welcomes all participants. We look forward to
discussing the future of Europe with all of you. blah, blah, friends, blah,
blah, blood, blah, blah, blah....
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto Benigni
ps: We are currently celebrating the American holiday known as the 4th of
July and are a bit busy with barbeques and sparklers and fireworks.
Tomorrow morning (Thurs), I will send more detailed press privately.
Message from Russia to England
> Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> In all seriousness, no offense intended.
None taken.
> France is alive and well. I suspect he is a player of great skill.
I'm sure that he is. We know that his JDPR is over 1300, and given that
he's playing France, he almost certainly submitted a Preference list that
was only one or two Powers long. If we ever hear from Germany and Italy,
and you want me to privately express my concern to them about the danger
France poses to us all, let me know.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Italy
> Broadcast message from Italy in 'titleist':
> Life is Beautiful,
>
> Roberto Benigni
I stand on the arms of my chair to welcome you to the ... Oh, wait,
that's your bit, isn't it? ;-) In any event, welcome, and I'll speak with
you tomorrow.
Nicky.
Message from Germany to England
Sir Wingo:
If you could be so kind as to excuse this very brief note. It's a bit
busy here with the Independence Day celebrations. (Independence from
England, hmmm. Just kidding)
I've read your press, and I was very gratified that you noticed that
France probably had his pick of powers. He could be quite an opponent.
I shall return a proper press with a day.
Freddy
Message from Austria to England
To all who see these presents, Greetings!
Know ye that, reposing special trust and confidence in the fidelities
and abilities of Edna Hapsburg Schmidt, we do appoint her our ambassador
to your nation, in plenipotentiary.
We hope her service will serve to further enhance communication and
cooperation between our nations.
Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to France
To all who see these presents, Greetings!
Know ye that, reposing special trust and confidence in the fidelities
and abilities of Felicia Hapsburg Schmidt, we do appoint her our
ambassador to your nation, in plenipotentiary.
We hope her service will serve to further enhance communication and
cooperation between our nations.
Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Germany
To all who see these presents, Greetings!
Know ye that, reposing special trust and confidence in the fidelities
and abilities of Gina Hapsburg Schmidt, we do appoint her our ambassador
to your nation, in plenipotentiary.
We hope her service will serve to further enhance communication and
cooperation between our nations.
Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Italy
To all who see these presents, Greetings!
Know ye that, reposing special trust and confidence in the fidelities
and abilities of Idalia Hapsburg Schmidt, we do appoint her our ambassador
to your nation, in plenipotentiary.
We hope her service will serve to further enhance communication and
cooperation between our nations.
Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Russia
To all who see these presents, Greetings!
Know ye that, reposing special trust and confidence in the fidelities
and abilities of Ralassa Hapsburg Schmidt, we do appoint her our
ambassador to your nation, in plenipotentiary.
We hope her service will serve to further enhance communication and
cooperation between our nations.
Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Turkey
To all who see these presents, Greetings!
Know ye that, reposing special trust and confidence in the fidelities
and abilities of Tamara Hapsburg Schmidt, we do appoint her our ambassador
to your nation, in plenipotentiary.
We hope her service will serve to further enhance communication and
cooperation between our nations.
Archduke Ferdinand
Message from France to Austria
Ms. Schmidt:
I congratulation you on your new post. We have that much
in common. I look forward to learning more of what we
may have in common.
My first question is whether you will represent your
country only to France or do your duties extend to all
the great countries in Europe?
I had sent an earlier message to your country, but did
not know whom to direct it to. I presume that it reached
Archduke Ferdinand. I trust that he or someone forwarded
it to you. If not, I will glad send a new copy.
Admittedly there was not much of substance, perhaps
something about coordinating our relationships with
Italy.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Mr. Roberto Benigni:
I welcome you to the game. I trust that your
celebrations were both enjoyable and safe. I have read
your broadcast quite carefully. I feel that your third
and seventh 'blah's were quite informative. I plan to
hold you to them!
I look forward to more substantial discussions than this
one.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
I am very happy that we have similar approaches and
attitudes to the game. That may make for an enjoyable
ride, even if I end up getting my butt whipped!
I do agree with your suggestion that we could use Belgium
as a country to exchange to keep our forces even. For
this first year I am inclined to keep it neutral. There
are many advantages in a bounce that can be used to
appease fears in the east and as negotiation tools. But
as you said, we need to wait to see what happens.
So far we have heard from everyone but Turkey. Given the
holiday I am not surprised that things have started
slowly. I must let you know that I was slipping off to
sneak some computer time. But in general we were
celebrating the Fourth. A nice American holiday. I am
looking forward to Bastille Day. Hmmm, that sounds
strange coming from a Monarchy? :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicolas II:
Bonjour from France.
I believe that I understood your message to me. You are
suggesting that I am best positioned to focus on the
North, but Marseilles is best suited for activity in the
South, while you are best positioned to focus on the
South while St. Petersburg is best suited for activity in
the North? At any rate we each have access to both the
North and South which gives us flexibility and a great
deal of work. It is both an important asset and a huge
liability.
As for your call for Unionization and such. I must admit
that as a Monarchy, France is not too keen on workers
rights. We would not want the people to forget their
place. We will endeavor to treat them right and any that
are not happy, we will send to you. We would sign up for
a mutual protection pact, such as you suggested. I do
not have the details of your message handy, so I hope
that I have remembered things correctly.
I also appreciate your offer of Black Bread and Vodka for
our Wine and Cheese. I will send my contribution
straight away. Please use the Black Bread as packing
material for the Vodka.
I look forward to more enjoyable conversations.
-- Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Your missive arrived "Thu, 5 Jul 2001 06:38:42 -0500"
An early riser! I like that, too. This morning I got up at 5:30am to
catch GodfatherII on AMC, because I missed the first hour of that movie
yesterday.
Hmmm. Of course, maybe you really do live in France, in which case you
were writing on your lunch break.
Anyway, I too am missing only a message from Turkey. Except for you and
Russia, every other message has been superficial. I'll write again when I
have heard something solid from others.
Ivy
Message from England to Austria
Dearest Edna,
I have in hand the note of introduction from your esteemed emperor
Ferdinand, who places special trust and confidence in you. Be assured that
we have no interests in conflict and that it is to our mutual benefit to
exchange information regarding dangerous neighbors.
To that end I report that I have heard briefly from all corners but Turkey
and that, except those from Russia and France, notes have been courteous,
but superficial. Russia seems a pleasant chap; I recommend that you make
his acquaintance. France appears to be a being of superior presence,
likely a man of great power who wished to be ruler of that nation and got
his wish. Certainly, he has my ear, but I do fear him, and I promise to
listen carefully to Germany as well, when that individual becomes more active.
If there is anything I can do for you, please do not hesitate to ask.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto! A fine name.
Your appearance on the scene is greatly appreciated. I wish to reinforce
my previous invitation to join our nations in cooperation.
France, as expected, already has shown himself to be an individual of
superior presence, likely a man of great power who wished to be ruler of
that nation and got his wish. Certainly, he has my ear, but I do fear him,
and I promise to listen carefully to Germany as well, when he becomes more
active. Should you wish to concentrate your energies in the east, then I
will do whatever I can within my limited abilities to strike a friendship
with either France or Germany. Beggars can't be choosers.
However, given France's potential to dominate one and all, please consider
the idea of a quick 3-way strike against him with opening moves to the
Channel, Burgundy, and Piedmont. It would be over very quickly and with
possession of Marseilles and Spain you would have full control over the
western Mediterranean.
Italy needs the decline of either France or Turkey in order to thrive.
Lately, with the decline in the Lepanto, Austria's suspicion of Italy has
grown, and it has not been quite as easy to take out Turkey. Provided we
can bring Germany on board, a triple attack on France is simple, no matter
how good he is.
Here's another way to view the situation. What do you have to fear from a
powerful France once either England or Germany is gone? What always
happens after a fleet is built in Marseilles?
Most cordially yours,
Ivy
Message from Italy to Austria
Archduke,
I'll get right to the point. I'm Italian and I don't like people of Turkish
descent. They make bad movies. In my opinion, the sooner the Turk is
disposed of the sooner we can concentrate our efforts on more profitable
areas of Europe. An Austria that builds armies in combination with an Italy
that builds fleets is a natural and powerful alliance. I hope to find you
in agreement with those thoughts.
Regardless of how you feel about the above, I consider you a friend and will
absolutely not attack you. It has been my experience that an Italian
offensive against Austria has no long-term sustainability. It's essentially
military suicide.
I look forward to future discussion between us that will hopefully lead to
mutual growth and defense.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to France
Prince Boar,
> Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> I believe that I understood your message to me.
> You are suggesting that I am best positioned to
> focus on the North, but Marseilles is best suited
> for activity in the South, while you are best
> positioned to focus on the South while St.
> Petersburg is best suited for activity in the
> North? At any rate we each have access to both
> the North and South which gives us flexibility
> and a great deal of work. It is both an important
> asset and a huge liability.
Precisely. If brevity is the soul of wit,
I fear that I am a dullard, indeed. 8-) Also, as
we share such similar opportunities, challenges,
and outlook, there is an innate opportunity for
cooperation between us.
> As for your call for Unionization and such. I
> must admit that as a Monarchy, France is not too
> keen on workers rights. We would not want the
> people to forget their place.
The Romanov family has ruled Russia in
an unbroken line since 1613. The reforms I have
implemented here, and hope to spread throughout
Europe are intended to strengthen my rule here,
and could be used by your brother to the same
effect in France. After all, if the workers are
well-paid, (fat and happy 8-), they have no reason
to revolt, even if they have no real political
power. I suggest that you re-read the Declaration
of Principles, and note that the true Power lies
with the Executive Council, and not the
quasi-democratic Management and Union Houses.
These "reforms" will give us greater control
while simultaneously short-circuiting any
inclination toward revolt by the masses.
> I also appreciate your offer of Black Bread and
> Vodka for our Wine and Cheese. I will send my
> contribution straight away. Please use the Black
> Bread as packing material for the Vodka.
Rest assured that we have centuries of
experience in shipping vodka, and it will not be
necessary to use the bread as packing material. 8-)
While Smirnoff has been "the Czar's vodka", for some
time, I am sending you a case from a new distiller,
Stolichnaya, which I believe has a bright future.
I hope you will enjoy it as much as I do.
> I look forward to more enjoyable conversations.
As do I.
Czar Nicholas II
Message from Observer to Observer
By the way, everyone, feel free to discuss the game in this forum.
I'm starting to get the impression that everyone here thinks that
they're supposed to sit quietly and watch.
Does anyone have first-hand experience against these guys? You can
use the search tool at http://www.onesite.org/dip/Players.php3 to
figure it out -- determine your ID number, then use the numbers for
these seven players (27, 46, 62, 130, 172, 306, and 487) to see if
there's overlap between your games and theirs.
Roger made mincemeat of me in 'u1a' -- he (as England) and Germany
chewed up my France; he ended up as a 3WD there.
Randy (the only one of the seven I've met in person) and I lost two
no-press games as A and R. In our only game with press -- a Crowded,
broadcast-only game -- I lost as France and he won as England. It's
been a long time ago, but as I recall, he taunted me a little bit for
my "strategy" in that game (which, towards the end, basically amounted
to keeping him from benefitting from my demise. Fat lot of good it
did.).
I've played four no-press Standard games with Ken -- he's got a solo,
I've got a 3WD. All four were touraments (two of my losses were in
takeover positions).
I've played three no-press games with Rich -- I actually got the
better of him (sort of!) with two 3WD's. The only time we were
neighbors, though, as EF, we both lost to Turkey in an old-fashioned
butt-kicking (Turkey was at 18-6-4-3-3 at the end of the game, which
is ridiculous). Rich and I also played in 'vgfp0008', his ticket to
the second round. I, as Germany, started strongly against EF, but
they pushed me back in the mid-game. Meanwhile, Rich and Italy
absolutely swamped RT, and then overran EFG on their way to a cowardly
2WD. :-)
Haven't played the others.
Anyone else?
Dog
Message from Italy to France
>
> I trust that your celebrations were both enjoyable
> and safe.
>
I only lost two fingers this year so they're getting safer.
> In fact, I have read many military articles on the
> subject. They claim that it is not in Italy's best
> interest to engage in an attack on France.
Today's your lucky day. The one other game of Diplomacy I've ever played, I
was Italy and a smooth-talking King of England talked me into attacking
France in 1901. Well, needless to say, I ran into a brick wall and it
didn't take long before my beloved country was swallowed up by the beast
from the east. I told myself, if I ever play this game again, I'll try a
different tact.
> I am particularly interested in hearing your thoughts
> on a long lasting peace and complete demilitarization
> of our border.
>
Rest assured, per above, I have no plans on moving into Piedmont unless of
course you really want me to. What do they call that? Oh yes, I think the
term is *bounce*. As for the seas, I'll have to defer to your military
handbooks as one of my interns has just spilled a bowl of pasta leaving my
articles completely unreadable.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I am relieved to hear that you were not severly hurt by
the celebrations. That means that your enemies were
unsuccessful at setting you up, if you actually have any
enemies that is.
I am glad to hear that you agree with me on keeping the
areas between ourselves free of armies and fleets. The
Dauphin has plenty of areas to send his armies without
bothering you. From both a practical and philosophical
point of view, many misunderstands can be avoided by
thinking the same way. I will gladly send you a copy of
those sea areas which shall remain free of our fleets.
Enclosed is an ancient map which I find quite soothing.
Please forgive the fact that Piedmont is included as part
of France. It was drawn during a past time of our
expansionism.
I do believe that you are pulling my leg concerning your
inexperience. That is OK, I enjoy the fun. Just be
careful not to get too personal when pulling my leg, else
you may lose a few more fingers. :-)
We have time to keep in touch concerning our peace and
hopefully behind the scenes support for each other.
Truly I do not wish to see Italy overrun by Austria or
Turkey. I would lose the security of my safe border with
you. I hope that you see that the opposite is true as
well.
-- Prince Boar
PS: Just to make it clear, France is *not* asking for
you to enter Piedmont.
Message from Italy to England
Ivy,
I've read and re-read your messages to me. In concept, I fully agree with
what you have to say. My only concern is that I'm not really the type of
player that will 'invade' a neighbor in the Spring of 1901. In order for me
to even consider such an action, I would have to have complete trust in my
Austrian neighbor and, unfortunately, I'm not that far along in my
negotiations with the Archduke.
However, that's not to say that I'm not interested and intrigued by your
proposal. I'm just not sure that I can fulfill your requirement of moving
to Piedmont at this stage of the game. I hope you understand. You are
correct in that I do not want France to become too powerful (I suppose
that's true for any power not just France) and will do everything in my
power to control excessive growth. I most definitely do not want to see
England eliminated.
BTW, the new Pope has requested a visit to the United Kingdom. In spite of
my advise not to sail due to the rumored military activities in the
Mid-Atlantic, he left this morning and should arrive within a day or two.
His name is Pope Johnny Bench I. We trust that you will treat him with the
honor and dignity that he deserves.
Roberto
Message from Russia to Austria
Archduke Ferdinand,
> Message from Austria to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> Know ye that, reposing special trust and
> confidence in the fidelities and abilities of
> Ralassa Hapsburg Schmidt, we do appoint her our
> ambassador to your nation, in plenipotentiary.
We are honored to welcome your sister
(cousin?) to our court in St. Petersburg.
> We hope her service will serve to further
> enhance communication and cooperation between
> our nations.
I will meet with her as soon as she has
settled in, and hope that we can resolve the
unrest in Galicia without conducting military
operations there this Spring.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Italy to Master
So, would I get a slap on the wrist of life in prison without the
possibility of parole if I broadcast just two simple words:
"Western Triple?"
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> Your Ambassador has not yet arrived here,
>
What?!! Not arrived! That makes three ambassadors that have somehow not
made it to their respective destinations. I'm beginning to suspect foul
play.
> Indeed, the potential for an alliance
> between Italy and Russia is both vast, and underrated,
Funny you mention that. I've always considered an Italian/Russian alliance
to be one of the best on the board both short term and long term. I'm not
just saying that either. I honestly believe that to be true. There are a
lot of centers that can be evenly split between Turkey, Austria, and the
Balkans. Not to get too far ahead of the game, but there are numerous
advantages to an IR Juggernaut in the mid-game as opposed to the traditional
RT Juggernaut.
Anyway, I don't want to put the cart before the horse but I am most
interested in pursuing cooperation with you. In my opinion, the beginning
of said cooperation would start with Turkey whom I suspect is behind the
disappearance of my ambassadors. I have already sent a feeler to the
Austrian but have yet to receive a reply. I will let you know if he has
similar thoughts.
> Have you heard from anyone, and would you care to
> exchange impressions?
>
Just France and England so far other than yourself. Both seem competent and
formidable opponents. Both are courting my friendship although for far
different alternatives.
Roberto
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
> Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
> > an alliance between Italy and Russia is both
> > [powerful] and underrated,
> There are a lot of centers that can be evenly
> split between Turkey, Austria, and the Balkans.
I'd much rather split those Centres between
Italy and Russia. 8-)
> there are numerous advantages to an IR Juggernaut
> in the mid-game as opposed to the traditional
> RT Juggernaut.
Most particularly Italy's inability to
build in Ankara and Constantinople, and the shorter
distance between your Home Centres and your next
target (France) once Austria and Turkey have been
eliminated. 8-)
> In my opinion, the beginning of said cooperation
> would start with Turkey whom I suspect is behind
> the disappearance of my ambassadors.
I have yet to hear from Turkey, and silence
is always suspicious. Additionally, eliminating the
witches is best done early, so I am certainly not
opposed to this idea.
> I have already sent a feeler to the Austrian but
> have yet to receive a reply. I will let you know
> if he has similar thoughts.
I have heard from Austria, but the lack of
content in his letter was profound. It sounded
like a form-letter.
> Both France and England seem competent and
> formidable opponents. Both are courting my
> friendship although for far different alternatives.
Yes, I agree. If England is seeking to
explore the possibility of an attack on France,
I would urge you to encourage this idea. I do not
think that we want England and France allying and
rolling over Germany.
In Friendship,
Nicky.
Message from Observer to Observer
All I could think about after England's toast proposal was that it
should perhaps be done with Klingon Bloodwine.... :)
--
Will Abbott
To e-mail me, take me out.
You believe at last
but a time is coming-- now
you will be scattered.
hold on.
Message from England to Italy
>His name is Pope Johnny Bench I
Very interesting. I've heard of him. I'm surprised that he doesn't know
me. Or does he? Please ask him.
>My only concern is that I'm not really the type of
>player that will 'invade' a neighbor in the Spring of 1901.
I respect your reply. Please note that the "Alpine Chicken" opening
(Venice->Piedmont & Rome->Venice) does not 'invade' France at all. Sure,
it does make him a little nervous, but it certainly does not commit one to
a war with France. In fact, it easily converts into a fine attack on
Austria. In short it is a flexible opening.
Carry on,
Ivy
Message from Observer to Observer
All I have to say is "yuck". How long does anyone seriously
think it will take for players to figure out at least some of
who is playing which countries??? Heck, I'll bet ***I*** can
figure out who a few of them are by 1904 or so.
In general, I find "character" stuff boring and this stuff is
not interesting. I want to know WHO these guys are as they
are playing out the game. But maybe that's just me....
Whine, complain, well, thanks to Doug for running this anyway!!
Jim-Bob
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., Will Abbott <wabbott@e...> wrote:
> All I could think about after England's toast proposal was that it
> should perhaps be done with Klingon Bloodwine.... :)
> --
> Will Abbott
> To e-mail me, take me out.
>
> You believe at last
> but a time is coming-- now
> you will be scattered.
>
> hold on.
Message from Observer to Observer
We aren't eligible for England's prize of course, but let me be
the first to say here that Ivy Wingo is/was a baseball player.
That's all I remembered off hand except that he was an "early
part of this century" player, so figuring that the "honor"
didn't apply to us anyway, I looked up his baseball stats
on the web. Once I did that, it came back to me, he has the
most errors by a catcher in major league history and led the
National League in errors by a catcher in seven different
seasons in the 1920's! You might think.... "hey, well he was
a good hitter, wasn't he?". You would be wrong.
He hit .300 once, but it looked like a fluke, he stole a
few bases, so he wasn't TOO slow, but he didn't hit a lick.
Is that England's fate in this game???
Jim-Bob
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., usin@t... wrote:
> News about USIN can be found at
> http://www.thekleimans.com/diplomacy/usin.htm
>
> All unmoderated games will be removed.
> Judge address is usin@t...
> New Registrations will be reviewed for completeness and
> removed without notice if determined incomplete.
>
> Broadcast message from England in 'titleist':
>
>
> To: diplomats of Europe
> From: Ivy Wingo
>
> My nom de guerre, "Ivy Wingo" may be odd in that it has nothing to
do with
> war or diplomacy or politics. However, I like its somewhat
romantic ring,
> suggestive, perhaps, of characteristics of my true persona:
honesty, honor,
> harmlessness, faithfulness, integrity, loyalty, and innocence.
>
> Let's have a wee contest. An actual, tangible, prize awaits the
first
> person to identify the real Ivy Wingo. Who is/was he? You are on
your
> honor (yes, honor!) not to consult any references whatsoever.
Either you
> know of Ivy Wingo or you don't. Surely, someone out there must be
familiar
> with him.
>
> Remember, a real prize awaits the first to tell me who I am. Offer
expires
> if I expire.
Message from Observer to Observer
Here are my comments on the players and their "likelihood"
of being Ivy Wingo/England.....oh yeah, I haven't played
with any of them.
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., usin@t... wrote:
> News about USIN can be found at
> http://www.thekleimans.com/diplomacy/usin.htm
>
> All unmoderated games will be removed.
> Judge address is usin@t...
> New Registrations will be reviewed for completeness and
> removed without notice if determined incomplete.
>
> Broadcast message from masseyd@b... as Master in 'titleist':
>
> Okay, I just posted this to r.g.d:
>
> Observers to this game can't comment on the game on USIN, but
members
> of 'vgfp_titleist' on yahoogroups.com can kibbitz all they like --
the
> players are the only ones who won't be permitted to join the mailing
> list. So if you'd like to discuss the game with others, join that
> mailing list.
>
> I should have included the list of participants (all JDPR's
referenced
> are as of March 7, which sucks, but is still relevant. They don't
> include the semi-final results and are thus likely to be even higher
> than listed):
>
> Allen Schweinsberg: his 1716 JDPR rating is ninth among active
players.
> He's played 14 games on record, with victories in 'highland' and
> 'pinecone' on USEF, 'samband' on TWUT, and 'vgfp0005' on USIN in the
> first round of the tournament, as well as five draws. Focuses
largely
> on full-press games and was ranked #6 on that list at the end of
2000.
>
Don't know Allen too well, but he sounds like a Baseball fan. 40%
chance of being Ivy Wingo.
> Eric Hunter: 1535 JDPR, rank #23. Three full-game and one partial-
game
> press solos ('juteland' on USWA, 'eden' on USIN, 'unortho1' on
> USBR, and 'rachel' on USIN), along with 11 draws, including a 2WD in
> 'vgfp0001' in the first round. Plays all types of press; was #19 on
> the YE2000 full-press list.
2% chance of being Ivy Wingo, I think Eric is a better player than
the player playing England and is an early favorite by me to do well
in this game.
>
> Jeff Stephens: 1379 JDPR, ranked in the top 100. 54 official games
> played, mostly full press, dating back to 1995. Three full solos
and two
> partials ('dilsey3' and 'mudcats' on USWI, 'samakama' on USEF,
'adv1'
> on USIN, and 'exp2' on USEF), as well as 23 draws -- including a 2WD
> in 'vgfp0012' on USVG and a 3WD in 'vgfp0006' on USIN in the first
round.
> #28 on the YE2000 full-press list.
>
Don't know him at all, but may well be the baseball fan, 20% chance
of being Ivy Wingo.
> Ken Lofgren: 1714 JDPR, #10 amongst active players and on YE2000
> full-press list. 58 official games played, with 4 victories
('rubicon'
> on USEF, 'test0' on USCA, 'tech4' and 'squash' on USEF) in games
with
> press, along with many draws, including a 3WD in 'vgfp0014' on USVG.
> Mixes no-press tournaments and variants in with a steady diet of
> full-press games.
>
2% chance of being Ivy Wingo, will play this game VERY seriously,
but I don't think he'll win.
> Randy Hudson: 1733 JDPR, ranked #8. 77 games played, primarily no-
press
> and real-time, with lots of variants thrown in as well. Full-press
> victories in 'flyer' and 'burnoff' on USEF, as well as the first
round
> game 'vgfp0009' on USVG and four no-press games. Only two career
losses
> in full-press game starts.
>
Randy has a decent chance of being Ivy Wingo, say 10%. I think
he has a much better chance of actually winning the game. I
like Randy's chances a whole lot, though like all the players,
I've never actually played with him. But when did that ever
stop me from making predictions????
> Rich Olver: 1271 JDPR. The underdog. :-) Normally, that rating
is
> one of the top one or two in a game, but not here. Played 34 games,
> mostly no-press in recent years. Full-press wins in 'winooski' on
USIN,
> 'vergenne' on USEF, and a 2WD in 'vgfp0008' on USVG in the first
round.
> JDPR peaked at 1471, before the 1999 and 2000 Vermont Group no-press
> tournaments (which didn't go so well).
>
Rich also has a high chance of being Ivy Wingo, say 25%. I don't
know him at all, but I suspect with his lack of full-press
experience he will take a BIG tumble (probably playing Italy
or was it Russia?? Anyway, one of the other countries with some
lame "character" press in the first days).
> Roger Yonkoski: 1818 JDPR, #4 amongst active players. Also ranked
#3
> on YE2000 full-press list with 1825 rating. 25 games played, with
> full-press solos in 'primary' on USEF, 'braves' on USNM, 'pride' on
> USCA, 'horse' on USWI, 'truth' and 'abby' on USEF, plus a dozen or
more
> draws. 2WD in 'vgfp0013' in the first round. His loss in
'vgfp0004'
> was his first loss, ever, in a full-press game he started. The
favorite.
>
Almost NO chance of being Ivy Wingo, say 1% (I think that adds up
to 100%). Roger is the third co-favorite in my initial guesses
along with Randy Hudson and Eric Hunter. Roger is a very experienced
player and must be the initial favorite, as Doug says, with the
advantage that no one knows where he is.
> The average JDPR of the players in this game will be calculated at
> then end of the game (that's the measurement point for all games).
> Given that these players' successes in the second round (not to be
> revealed until the final is finished), this is likely to be the
> highest rated game in Judge history.
>
> Doug
Thanks, Doug, thunderstorms this afternoon, no play golf.....
Jim-Bob
Message from Observer to Observer
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
vgfp_titleist group:
Who do you think is Ivy Wingo??
o Allen Schweinsberg
o Eric Hunter
o Jeff Stephens
o Ken Lofgren
o Randy Hudson
o Rich Olver
o Roger Yonkoski
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
Message from Observer to Observer
I've posted a poll on the list for who you think Ivy Wingo is.
It is possible/likely we won't be able to resolve the poll until
the end of the game, though we know Ivy is the English player,
so this poll is equivalent to figuring out who is playing England.
Jim-Bob
Message from Austria to Italy
Hi!
The Archduke asked me to respond to your note.
He completely agrees with your comments about conflict between Italy and
Austria-Hungary. Peace between those nations is their only hope.
If you wish that our cooperation extend to a joint attack against
Turkey, that is a reasonable idea, and I endorse it.
The military advisors feel that Italian fleets in the Ionian and Eastern
Mediterranean seas, probably convoying an Italian army to Syria or
Smyrna, will be the surest course of attack.
I hope we can achieve this, and on the basis of that cooperation, move
on to other areas of joint concern.
Idalia, for Archduke Ferdinand and Austria-Hungary
Message from Italy to England
>
> >His name is Pope Johnny Bench I
>
> Very interesting. I've heard of him. I'm surprised that he
> doesn't know me. Or does he? Please ask him.
>
I've got him on the cell phone right now. He's laughing pretty hard. To
paraphrase, he's spent his entire adult life trying not to break one of your
records. I thought it might be the Beatles White album but he just laughed
even harder. He mumbled something about once a Cardinal always a Cardinal
then he hung up. So, I'm guessing you either once held a high position in
the Catholic hierarchy or you loaned him your music collection. This is all
very confusing to me.
> >My only concern is that I'm not really the type of
> >player that will 'invade' a neighbor in the Spring of 1901.
>
> I respect your reply. Please note that the "Alpine Chicken" opening
> (Venice->Piedmont & Rome->Venice) does not 'invade' France
>
I'll admit, I'm not familiar with this opening but will do some research.
'Alpine Chicken'? That just doesn't sound like a good opening. Whomever
came up with that name should be shot.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> If you wish that our cooperation extend to a joint attack against
> Turkey, that is a reasonable idea, and I endorse it.
>
Great news. Would you suggest we ask Russia if he'd like to
help or would you prefer to keep this our little secret?
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Observer to Observer
> 7. Awfully quiet . . .
> From: "Doug Massey" <masseyd@b...>
> Does anyone have first-hand experience against these guys?
OK, I'll bite, although there's not much to say...
Roger Yonkoski:
France vs my Austria in ''jive' (nopress, USEF 1994). I don't
remember much, but I was dead in 4 years, while Roger got a 3-way.
Randy Hudson:
England with my France (both takeover positions) in dogrun (fleet
rome, USEF 1994). It was a game which was raised a while back on
r.g.d. IIRC we were together defending the Iberian end of the
stalemate line, and got caught by the judge coast 'feature' - F MAO-
Spa/sc, A Mar S F MAO-Spa [judge inserts 'north coast'] *void* which
allowed a solo by Turkey.
Rich Olver:
Germany vs my Italy in VGNP0001. Ended in a AFI 3-way.
Ken Lofgren:
Austria vs my Germany in VGNP0044. Ended in a AIG 3-way with Italy
owning none of his home centres, holding Mar/Por/Spa/Par. Ken and I
never managed to organise the elimination of Italy (both worried
about the other soloing), although we might have done had the 3-year
clock not intervened.
There's a couple of other games, but they're all involving takeover
positions which were either very brief or where one of us was already
dead.
Robin
Message from Austria to Italy
Russia's interest, I think, is in avoiding Ank-Bla this spring, while
that move would greatly ease our progress.
So, Austria-Hungary would prefer that we avoid making it easier for
Russia to deter Ank-Bla. Ooh, that's muddy syntax. Let's not push
Turkey into a Russian alliance, if we can avoid it. We don't need
immediate Russian cooperation, so seeking it won't necessarily be
productive.
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary and Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> > There are a lot of centers that can be evenly
> > split between Turkey, Austria, and the Balkans.
>
> I'd much rather split those Centres between
> Italy and Russia. 8-)
>
Indeed. Thank you for clarifying my intent.
> > there are numerous advantages to an IR Juggernaut
> > in the mid-game as opposed to the traditional
> > RT Juggernaut.
>
> Most particularly Italy's inability to
> build in Ankara and Constantinople, and the shorter
> distance between your Home Centres and your next
> target (France) once Austria and Turkey have been
> eliminated. 8-)
>
I see that I don't have to spell out every last detail. This is good!
Clearly, we have similar understandings of the map.
>
> I have yet to hear from Turkey, and silence
> is always suspicious. Additionally, eliminating the
> witches is best done early, so I am certainly not
> opposed to this idea.
>
I have yet to hear from the Turk as well although I take partial
responsibility since I haven't yet had time to pen him a message myself.
(it's on my to-do list)
>
> I have heard from Austria, but the lack of
> content in his letter was profound. It sounded
> like a form-letter.
>
I think I received that same form letter but since have received another
message. He seemed receptive to the idea of a Turkish offensive. I've
followed up and asked if we (meaning Austria/Italy) should as you for help
as well or if he'd rather not let our 'secret' out. I'll let you know what
he says.
....
He responded as I was typing this message. He'd prefer that I not seek your
cooperation fearing it would result in a RT defense alliance. So, publicly
I'm not seeking your cooperation but maybe you could 'accidently' mistype a
support order or two. Regardless, I'll keep you posted on AI negotiations
involving Turkey if you would be so kind as to reciprocate.
>
> Yes, I agree. If England is seeking to
> explore the possibility of an attack on France,
> I would urge you to encourage this idea.
>
Well, somewhat unfortunately, I responded to him prior to reading your
message. I basically told him that I'm not the type of player who 'invades'
in Spring of 1901, especially a neighbor as potentially powerful as France.
I didn't necessarily discourage an attack but I didn't really encourage it
either. Has England approached you with a suggestion to coordinate an
attack against Germany?
> I do not think that we want England and France
> allying and rolling over Germany.
True enough but I'm not too thrilled with the idea of England and Germany
rolling over France either. The longer the West remains unresolved, the
better for us obviously. We may find ourselves in a situation of having to
prop up the weakest of the Western powers until such time as we can move
west. Which begs the question, will Germany bounce you out of Sweden and if
so what would your response be?
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to all
The Sultanate of Turkey sends its warmest regards to our fellow leaders.
The Sultan himself has been imprisoned, ah, I mean, is temporarily
indisposed, and I now represent the armed forces of Turkey. We have sent
our spies, ah, that is, envoys and diplomats, throughout Europe. We look
forward to penetrating the defenses, that is to say, building on the mutual
security of our fellow Powers. We look forward to a lively dialogue while
the peasants beat their plowshares into swords.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Italy to Turkey
Ali,
Good to hear from you sir.
Now, I've played, moderated, and observed hundreds of games and I still
can't recall Italy and Turkey ever being allies. Seems to me, our two
nations always end up in conflict. There must be a scenario where Turkey
and Italy can be friends. This game is filled with quality diplomats any
one of which is capable of a solo. But, the other six will be so good at
preventing a solo I firmly believe it's going to take a special effort,
something spectacular, something unexpected to achieve ultimate success in
this game. Perhaps something as bold as an Italian/Turkish alliance. Is it
possible? Can it be done?
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
Thank you for your letter; I hope you will accept my heartfelt apologies
that I didn't write sooner. I, too, see many great opportunities for RT
cooperation. Indeed, I am greatly interested in building and strengthening
our relations. I hope and trust that you're already familiar with the great
power that we could share, if we can trust each other and work together
effectively.
The first order of business, of course, is the disposition of the Black Sea,
and of your southern fleet. There are three choices that come to mind: we
could bounce in Bla, DMZ Bla, or if you're feeling adventurous, we could try
something exotic such as the Slingshot. Myself, I think that the bounce is
counter-productive for both of us. Whether or not we can agree to an
immediate DMZ will be determined as our talks continue, I'm sure. I would
actually prefer the latter option, as I like to stir the pot, so to speak.
In addition to specifics, I'd like to hear more about how you envision a
possible RT shaking out. Do you prefer the cloak & dagger, attempting to
hide RT from the others until it's underway? Would you feel comfortable
opening with an overt alliance?
As for the others, so far I've only received the usual introductory
greetings. However, it is my hope that conversations will begin to
flourish, and I sincerely look forward to our comparing notes as the
diploming progresses.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Italy
My dear Roberto,
Many thanks for your letter. To answer your question, yes IT can and has
been done. I have seen (and participated in) such alliances before, and
they can work out quite well. The usual problem is one of naval dominance;
we cannot be effective together if we engage in useless strugles for control
of the seas. My experience is that to make it work, Turkey must embark on
the course of a land-based power. I certainly understand the need for Italy
to control the western Mediterranean seas for defensive reasons.
This may seem a small matter, but it can often become a stumbling block.
After all, even a land-based Turkey must have some naval resources for
defensive purposes, and *any* Turkish fleet builds can sometimes make
Italian admirals nervous. Another matter to be resolved would be who should
be the short-term and long-term owner of Greece (and they need not
necessarily be the same power).
However, if we can get past these initial obstacles, the benefit to each of
us is tremendous. It would free you of the need to cling to an Austrian
ally, thereby giving you another avenue for growth (not to mention resolving
the Ven/Tri situation). A land-based Turkey would give you the naval
flexibility to get the better of any conflicts with France. And a secure
western front would enable me to form a strong position and challenge
Austria and Germany for control of the center.
Most importantly, though, I think it's a mistake to say "this-power and
that-power are always enemies, they can never get along." Doing so, I feel,
robs one of a potentially valuable ally. I urge you to judge me by my
nature and my actions, rather than the color of my pieces on the board.
In any case, I'm quite delighted to hear from you. I eagerly await your
thoughts on the above... or any other topic that comes to mind.
Sincerely,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Austria
Greetings from Turkey,
I'm writing to open a dialogue between us. We have received your
proclamation that Tamara Hapsburg Schmidt has been installed as your
ambassador, and we therefore extend our invitation to the very inner sanctum
of our military machine.
It has been my experience that Austria and Turkey have many opportunities to
work well together. Naturally, we potentially have common enemies in Russia
and Italy. And, if Turkey focuses on fleet strength, and Austria on land,
then there are few ways we can really get in each other's way.
I hope you feel the same way; I am ready, willing and eager to discuss any
propositions or proposals put forth by your noble Archduke.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from France to Turkey
Ali Baba:
I welcome you to the game. I look forward to meeting
your emissaries.
I have arranged a special Diplomatic processing center on
the Island of Corsica. I know that it is off the
mainland, but it is very nice. Tell them to look for the
large tent and long wooden table. I know that it does
not sound like very much, but it is a very plush tent.
Tell them not to mind the metal detectors when they get
off the plane or boat.
Feel proud, the other Emissaries are stuck on the
Mainland and do not get such royal treatment. Of course
they are the boring types that are not out spying and
penetrating defenses. How trite of them.
Tell the Sultan that we wish him well. Perhaps he and my
father can converse or play backgammon while you and I
work out the real issues.
-- Prince Boar
PS: The Dauphin sends his best and says that he is
keeping an eye on you. How lucky for you.
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicolas:
I agree that we may have much in common and much to
cooperate over. I do realize that now may not be the
time to figure discuss them. Our plans may require
secrecy. But let us always keep those options in mind.
As I stated in my opening letter, there are many paths
that we may take to cooperate. Let's keep an eye out for
signs of a German-English alliance. That alliance always
marks France and Russia as it's victims. We would need
to work closely together.
>From a philosophical point of view, would it make more
sense for Russia, Germany, and France to work to
eliminate England, or would Russia, England, and France
be better suited to eliminate Germany. It seems that
either would work. But there may be a tactical,
strategic, or geographic reason why one would work
better. I was curious whether you had any thoughts on
that, from a purely hypothetical point of view of course.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
Well, I have heard from everyone now. But like yourself,
I have received mostly superficial messages. Russian
messages have bordered on being more meaningful, but have
not yet. The Italian message was a bit real in the form
of a joke. Or perhaps it was a tease in the form of a
joke. I know not which at this point.
I wait to hear more from Germany.
While we wait, shall we discuss the inevitable topic:
The English Channel. I hope that we can just agree to
not enter in and be done with it. A move to the Channel
is the surest sign of war. The only thing that rivals it
is a move to Prussia and Silesia. Therefore, let's just
say that we both understand that entering the Channel
means war and put the topic behind us. Sound good to
you, Young Pup?
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Emperor Frederick:
I trust that you had a nice holiday. I hope to hear from
you soon. I know that I laid a lot of topics on you and
I hope that you did not faint from dealing with all of
them. The entire analogies between the East and West
interests me and it would seem that Germany would be the
one that would feel the most, therefore I attempted to
discuss them with you.
Have you heard much from Russia, England, or Italy. I
have heard sparingly from each, but England the most.
Perhaps he was the most available. But I guess that it
makes the most sense that the three of us would
concentrate our discussions on each other.
If I do not respond to you on Friday and Saturday, it is
because I will be our Hiking in the Alps. Do not worry,
I will not be spying on Germany. I play to stay near
Switzerland. I may take a peak towards Italy, but let's
keep that between the two of us.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Italy
> Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
> I have yet to hear from the Turk as well although I take partial
> responsibility since I haven't yet had time to pen him a message myself.
> (it's on my to-do list)
He replied to my message today. I'm more impressed with
him than I am with the Archduke at this point.
> I think I received that same form letter but since have received another
> message. He seemed receptive to the idea of a Turkish offensive. He'd
> prefer that I not seek your cooperation fearing it would result in a RT
> defense alliance.
Or worse yet (for Austria), an RI Alliance once Turkey is eliminated.
8-)
I think it's best if we down-play our relationship when talking with AT.
I've
indicated a willingness to consider RA in both my letters to Austria, but
have
not gotten a substantive response. Perhaps he feels that we are destined to
come into conflict, and sees no reason to attempt to avoid it.
> Well, somewhat unfortunately, I responded to him prior to reading your
> message. I basically told him that I'm not the type of player who
'invades'
> in Spring of 1901, especially a neighbor as potentially powerful as
France.
> I didn't necessarily discourage an attack but I didn't really encourage it
> either. Has England approached you with a suggestion to coordinate an
> attack against Germany?
England has been surprisingly accomodating. He offered to occupy
Nwy with a Fleet , and either attack Germany together, or attempt to
influence him to let me into Swe, before I made my Opening Broadcast.
You could approach him in a few days with a line like, 'The more I talk
to France, the more concerned I become. Perhaps attacking him early,
before he has a chance to grow is worth considering..."
> > we [don't] want England and France rolling over Germany.
>
> True enough but I'm not too thrilled with the idea of England and Germany
> rolling over France either. The longer the West remains unresolved, the
> better for us obviously.
Obviously, but EG is more unstable than EF in my opinion, and France
is much harder to eliminate than Germany is. Plus, Prince Boar seems
entirely too capable.
> will Germany bounce you out of Sweden and if
> so what would your response be?
I've heard nothing from Germany beyond his Opening Broadcast, yet.
I wrote to him suggesting that Fleet Kiel -> Holland had advantages for
him that F Kie - Den - Swe did not, but he has not responded. My
reaction to a threatened or actual bounce depends on the circumstances,
but I expect I'd need to respond somewhat forcefully to maintain
control of St. Petersburg, so that I could attack in the North while you
concentrate in the South, after we eliminate AT.
In Friendship,
Nicky.
Message from Germany to England
Please excuse my poor timing, but I won't be able to discuss the game
again tonight. It's past my bedtime, and I have many more emails to
answer. I picked next weekend as the perfect time to take 73 of my
closest friends to a getaway weekend. There were 50 unread emails
backed up tonight. Who says computers are time savers. Bah Humbug.
Frederick
Message from Germany to France
Please excuse my poor timing, but I won't be able to discuss the game
again tonight. It's past my bedtime, and I have many more emails to
answer. I picked next weekend as the perfect time to take 73 of my
closest friends to a getaway weekend. There were 50 unread emails
backed up tonight. Who says computers are time savers. Bah Humbug.
Have a good time on your hikes. That's some pretty big territory
you'll be covering.
We have a week to discuss our opening moves, and I'm patient. (Or is
it I'm a patient)
Frederick
Message from Germany to Russia
Please excuse my poor timing, but I won't be able to discuss the game
tonight. It's past my bedtime, and I have many more emails to answer.
I picked next weekend as the perfect time to take 73 of my closest
friends to a getaway weekend. There were 50 unread emails backed up
tonight. Who says computers are time savers. Bah Humbug.
You're quite right in that we need to talk about Sweden. Time after
time Germany bounces Russia out of there. I would like to look at other
options. In particular, if I don't bounce you there, what commitments
can you make that you won't use that build against me. Or better yet,
what should our joint action be?
Frederick
Message from Germany to Austria
Please excuse my poor timing, but I won't be able to discuss the game
again tonight. It's past my bedtime, and I have many more emails to
answer. I picked next weekend as the perfect time to take 73 of my
closest friends to a getaway weekend. There were 50 unread emails
backed up tonight. Who says computers are time savers. Bah Humbug.
Frederick
Message from Russia to Germany
Frederick,
> Message from Germany to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> You're quite right in that we need to talk about Sweden. I would like
> to look at other options. In particular, if I don't bounce you there,
> what commitments can you make that you won't use that build against
> me. Or better yet, what should our joint action be?
Alliances are, of course, still up in the air at this point, but given
the
frequency with which England and France are writing, and the quality
of their correspondence, I am already concerned about an EF
"reverse-Juggernaut" rolling eastward, so, at this point, I am
pro-German as a matter of self-defense. 8-) Obviously, an agreement
about Sweden would reinforce that inclination. While conventional
wisdom suggests that Germany and Russia are destined to come into
conflict, there are actually a number of stalemate lines that would make
that both unnecessary and unproductive.
As a devout Orthodox Christian, my dislike of witches suggests a
possibility for cooperation between us, but Ivy Wingo has been
surprisingly accommodating (offering to occupy Norway with a Fleet
even before I had a chance to write to him), so if you decide that your
best hope lies in attacking France, I can provide you with a rear-guard
to discourage English stabs.
Cordially,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to Italy
>> >His name is Pope Johnny Bench I
>>
>> Very interesting. I've heard of him. I'm surprised that he
>> doesn't know me. Or does he? Please ask him.
>>
>
>I've got him on the cell phone right now. He's laughing pretty hard. To
>paraphrase, he's spent his entire adult life trying not to break one of your
>records. I thought it might be the Beatles White album but he just laughed
>even harder. He mumbled something about once a Cardinal always a Cardinal
>then he hung up.
Ha-ha. So you do know me. Why not just announce my i.d. in a broadcast
and claim the prize?
>> I respect your reply. Please note that the "Alpine Chicken" opening
>> (Venice->Piedmont & Rome->Venice) does not 'invade' France
>>
>
>I'll admit, I'm not familiar with this opening but will do some research.
>'Alpine Chicken'? That just doesn't sound like a good opening. Whomever
>came up with that name should be shot.
The name is derogatory, supposedly indicating an Italy who is afraid of
both Austria and France. In truth, it is an excellent opening that can
swing either way, east or west. It keeps neighbors guessing. I think it
has not been seen much lately, because of the prevalence of Rome->Naples
and the Lepanto.
Ivy
Message from France to Austria, England, Germany, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Mes Amis:
I shall be away the next two days. I will be hiking and
meditating in the French Alps. I hear that there is an
astrologer hermit in the Mountains and I aslo wish to
consult him on some things that I have read in the stars.
I am letting you know this for two reasons. The first is
that I do not want you to think that I am ignoring you if
I do not immediately return mail. The second is that I
am willing to consult the hermit on your behalf.
-- Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>I shall be away the next two days. I will be hiking and
>meditating in the French Alps.
Ah, the French Alps. The home of my ancestors - for real! Have a good
time and do not worry that your absence will have any effect on our
discussions.
Most cordially,
Ivy Wingo
Message from France to all
It is with great pleasure that I announce the beginning
of the Tour de France. I will be at the official start
of the race tomorrow.
As it is such a national treasure and a point of pride
for France, I will endeavor to keep you informed of the
Progress.
I imagine that Germany will be pulling for Team Deustche
Telekom
England may wish to adopt the American USPS team, as they
share a common language.
Italy should choose one of the Italian Teams:
Fassa Bortolo
Lampre - Daikin
Mapei - Quick Step
I will choose a French team, say:
Festina
The remainder of you (Turkey, Austria, and Russia) can
choose one of:
*Rabobank from the Netherlands
*Domo - Farm Frites from Belgium
*CSC - World Online from Denmark
*O.N.C.E. from Spain
(first come first serve, send me your preferences in
order as I may not see them before the race begins)
Please let me know your choice. I will then award points
according to the following:
10 points for winning a stage
20 points for winning the Green or Polka Dot Jersey
50 Points for winning the race
Who ever gets the most points is the winner and wins the
following grande prize:
A date for their sister with the Dauphin.
(not to mention a great deal of bragging rights)
I hope that you will all participate. It will be fun, I
promise. Just imaging the fame you will receive as your
adopted team wins a stage. Power, Fame, Dates, they will
all be yours.
-- Prince Boar
Message from England to Germany
Frederick,
> Please excuse my poor timing, ...
Excused. I understand. We have lots of time.
You must know by now that it has become increasingly obvious that France,
as expected, has shown himself to be an individual of great danger, likely
a man of great power who wished to be ruler of that nation and got his
wish. There is a reason that he is France, and you and I are not.
Certainly, he has my ear, but I do fear him deeply, and I promise to listen
to you with care when you can engage in serious negotiations.
I await with patience.
In friendship,
Ivy Wingo
Message from Russia to France
preferences in order
>*Rabobank from the Netherlands
>*Domo - Farm Frites from Belgium
>*CSC - World Online from Denmark
>*O.N.C.E. from Spain
Nicky.
Message from England to Russia
Czar Nicholas II
>I am reluctant to commit to an early incursion into Germany.
Of course, I haven't asked this. I just need to find a friend between
Germany or France, and it's too soon to know what the resolution of this
will be. France is obviously highly skilled and dangerous. On the other
hand, Germany is too busy with real life to communicate effectively yet.
>> I vow to take Norway with a fleet; that's least threatening to Russia.
>
> Fleet London -> English Channel, Fleet Edinburgh -> North Sea, Army
>Liverpool -> Yorkshire, followed by Fleet English Channel SUPPORT Army
>Yorkshire -> Belgium is less threating, yet, but I take your point and would
>welcome an English Fleet in Norway.
Of course, Fleet London -> English Channel forces war with France, and I
have no idea if that is called for yet. Is that what you want? 8-)
> He's [France] definitely someone to watch, and be careful about turning
your back on.
He is so obviously a powerful player it would be nice if he could be made
to disappear. But that requires German help, and I still await Germany's
awakening. Maybe you can urge EG cooperation against France, once Germany
is ready to communicate with neighbors. An EG attack on France is very
time consuming, so you could be free from worries from the west for a long
time. On the other hand, if Germany doesn't start talking soon, I will
have no choice but to turn to an EF alliance. The third possibility, an FG
alliance, makes all of this moot of course.
>If we ever hear from Germany and Italy,
>and you want me to privately express my concern to them about the danger
>France poses to us all, let me know.
Italy has said he is reluctant to enter into early agression against
France. I've countered with the suggestion that Venice->Piedmont and
Rome->Venice is actually non-committal and is excellent defense and
potentially offensive in either direction, east or west. It needn't be
seen as immediate warfare against France, but could turn out that way. If
you wish to point out the danger of the French player to Italy, please feel
free to do so. Would he rather have France grow strong behind him or England?
Having said all of this, I still remain open to France as an ally. I need
clear German support before France is my enemy.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Russia to France
>Message from France
>
>I will be hiking and meditating in the French Alps.
I hope that you enjoy your hike, and that
your meditation brings the clarity you seek.
>I am willing to consult the hermit on your behalf.
I appreciate the offer, but doubt that my wife,
Alexandra, or "Our Friend", Rasputin, would approve.
Your friend,
Nicky.
Message from Russia to France
>Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>Let's keep an eye out for signs of a German-English
>alliance. That alliance always marks France and
>Russia as it's victims. We would need to work
>closely together.
England's early letters seemed to suggest a
preference to move South, rather than West, though
that could eaisly have been a message crafted for
my ears. The subsequent German silence has,
understandably, seemed to worry Ivy.
>From a philosophical point of view, would it make more sense for Russia,
>Germany, and France to work to eliminate England, or would Russia, England,
> and France be better suited to eliminate Germany. I was curious whether
>you had any thoughts on that,
>from a purely hypothetical point of view of course.
From a Russian theoretical perspective, it would
make more sense to eliminate England first. Doing so
would immediately open Norway to encorporation into
the EEU under Russian control and pull German forces
west, leaving Berlin and Munich exposed to Russian
takeover, and all German possessions sandwiched
between us. If England were to help us eliminate
Germany, English forces would be headed east, and be
poised on the Russian border once Germany was gone.
Additionally, the Witches' defensive strength becomes
difficult to breach once they reach six Centres.
Cordially,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Italy to all
It is with great pride that I make the team of Fassa Bortolo my Tour de
France selection.
Life is Beautiful - as is the ride to Paris
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
>
> The second is that I
> am willing to consult the hermit on your behalf.
>
Can you ask him what he thinks about the "Alpine Chicken" opening. I've
been getting letters explaining this as the most advantageous opening for
Italy. Seeing how I've only played this game once before, all this talk of
Lepantos and Chickens has got me really confused. I was hoping the hermit
might be of assistance.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
>
> Ha-ha. So you do know me. Why not just announce my i.d. in
> a broadcast and claim the prize?
>
What?, and spoil everybody elses fun. Nah. I'm not materialistic. I'll
probably come up with a few more references. Can't wait for your first
mistaken order - 'just like Ivy to make another error'. Maybe a Yogism or
two. Nobody you'll know what I'm talking about. They'll just think I'm
some kook.
> I think it has not been seen much lately, because
> of the prevalence of Rome->Naples and the Lepanto.
>
Well, I'm finding myself between a rock and a hard place. As you point out,
the Frenchman is a skilled diplomat and most likely got a first choice of
powers. Not sure if you've had the pleasure of speaking with Ali Baba or
not, but he's impressed me as all. Very organized, very clear. He'll be a
tough nut to crack as well.
The more I think about it and the more I discuss issues with the other
powers, perhaps my best approach would be a quick strike against France.
Have you heard from Germany yet?
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Germany
Haven't had the pleasure yet of talking to you. We are neighbors separated
by a single province so surely we would have some matters to discuss.
How are your negotiations going with England and France? Has Belgium been
resolved? And what about Sweden? Any worthwhile news there?
I was wondering if you'd have any interest in joining Austria and myself in
a Center Alliance. It's been my experience that if one of the three of us
falls to an enemy, then usually one of the other two is next to go and once
a corner power gets a foothold they are very difficult to contain. Even if
we cannot help each other per se gain centers, we should, at the very least,
be aware of each other defensive needs. What are your thoughts on this
matter?
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali Baba ,
>Message from Turkey to Russia in 'titleist':
>I hope you will accept my heartfelt apologies that
>I didn't write sooner.
No apology is necessary. I certainly understand how
domestic concerns can interfere with foreign affairs.
>The first order of business, of course, is the disposition of the Black
>Sea, and of your southern fleet. There are three choices that come to
>mind: we could bounce in Bla, DMZ Bla, or if you're feeling adventurous, we
>could try something exotic such as the Slingshot. Myself, I think that the
>bounce is counter-productive for both of us.
The Slingshot certainly has advantages, but would
almost certainly be recognized at this level as an
attempt to conceal the Juggernaut. This, of course,
begs the question of how Powers at this level would
react to a Juggernaut. What do you think? Another
possibility would be to combine a Turkish Hedgehog
(Con-Bul, Smy-Arm, Ank-Con), with the Turkish Attack
variant of the Southern System (Sev-Bla, Mos-Sev,
StP-Bot, War-Ukr/Gal), and then Convoy Arm to Bul or
Rum in 1902. This would probably be the only way to
hide the Juggernaut.
>I'd like to hear more about how you envision a
>possible RT shaking out. Do you prefer the cloak & dagger, attempting to
>hide RT from the others until it's underway? Would you feel comfortable
>opening with an overt alliance?
I'm not sure. Conventional wisdom says that Ank-Con,
Sev C Smy-Vie in S'01 will result in AI & a Western
Triple all headed East, but the conventional wisdom
also says that the Juggernaut is much better for
Russia than it is for Turkey, and that's just not the
case as long as Russia builds in the North instead of
the South. If we play into the conventional wisdom,
though, and you tell everyone that once Austria's
gone, you intend to stab me, the West will probably
let us roll over Austria. Please let me know what you
think.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
> Fleet London -> English Channel forces war with France, and I
> have no idea if that is called for yet. Is that what you want? 8-)
It could be argued that Lon-Eng was intended to give you influence
over Belgium, and that the "English" Channel IS English, after all, but
you're right that it would increase the likelyhood of EF conflict. Given
that Germany would join with one of you, and attack the other, and that
would mean his forces would be headed west, leaving him open to a
stab once France was eliminated, I do prefer that idea over you allying
with France and the two of you overrunning Germany and appearing
on my border in force.
> If you wish to point out the danger of the French player to Italy, please
> feel free to do so.
I'll mention my concern to both Germany and Italy.
> Having said all of this, I still remain open to France as an ally.
> I need clear German support before France is my enemy.
I do understand. Allying with someone who doesn't communicate is
counterproductive.
Nicky.
Message from England to Turkey
Dear Turkey
Forgive me, I am at home and I do not have a copy of your introductory
broadcast, so I forget your proper name.
Here is some information that may be of use to you, and passing it on does
me no harm. Who knows, perhaps you can return the favor some day.
Simply this: Roberto the Italian and I have exchanged some initial
observations, and he appears favorably impressed with your opening
correspondence with him. Hence, I think you may be able to persuade him to
become an ally or at least remain neutral with respect to Turkey. I have
read that the Lepanto is falling out of favor, and it may be that Italians
these days are more predisposed to consider Turkey as a possible friend.
Anyway, I know that you dare not have more than one enemy among Russia,
Austria, and Italy, so that Italian good will may be good news indeed.
Good luck,
Ivy Wingo
Message from Observer to Observer
Anyone want to make any predictions before the spring moves
adjudicate?
I predict:
EI draw
T odd man out in east, first elimination
F odd man out in west
Any other wild guesses?
Karlis
Message from Observer to Observer
I'll bite as well:
Roger Yonkoski & Randy Hudson: Roger was France, Randy was England
and I was Italy in vgfp0004. It was an EFI endgame with me being the
larger power. IIRC, I was trying to broker an EI draw, and Randy was
playing along but was really going for a larger share of an EFI draw.
However, Roger must have believed that he was going to be squeezed out
in an EI draw (Randy's moves were consistent with EI and EFI) and
threw the game to me. That game is how my JDPR rating skyrocketed. :)
Then I was hammered in round 2. :(
Allen Schweinsberg and Jeff Stephens: Allen was France, Jeff was
Turkey and I was Russia in vgfp0012. In short, Jeff and I formed the
closest alliance I've ever been in. Allen was rightly surprised and
frustrated that he couldn't split us apart. I believe that Jeff and I
each made an error in the endgame that would have led to a solo by the
other if we both weren't so carebearish (in that particular game).
The game ended as an RT draw.
====================
I believe there are strong similarities between Roger's, Jeff's and
Allen's (and my) diplomatic styles. It would be hard for me to tell
them apart in a game I think. All three are expert diplomats, very
friendly, reasonable in negotiations, responsive. Randy is also
reasonable, and very sharp and shrewd, but isn't quite as friendly.
But what can one tell from one game?
I have more to tell, but I would have to reveal details about round 2
of the tournament. Doug, is this permissible?
Karlis Povisils (I have no idea why my yahoo ID says "Kyle Runner")
Message from Germany to all
I will adopt Team Deutsche Telekom and Jan Ullrich. Although my heart
will be with Lance again. We finally have live TV coverage here in
the US. On OLN (Outdoor life network) Finally there's a reason to pay
for cable TV.
Fred
> I imagine that Germany will be pulling for Team Deustche
> Telekom
Message from Russia to all
I'll take Rabobank since it starts with R. 8-)
Nicky.
Message [from Germany] to all
What can I say. Obviously I don't stand a chance. ;-)
My results in the 2001 NoPress Tourney is no better than the other
years. So my rating will probably sink even further.
I guess I'm just really bad at strategy.
> Rich Olver: 1271 JDPR. The underdog. :-) Normally, that rating is
> one of the top one or two in a game, but not here. Played 34 games,
> mostly no-press in recent years. Full-press wins in 'winooski' on USIN,
> 'vergenne' on USEF, and a 2WD in 'vgfp0008' on USVG in the first round.
> JDPR peaked at 1471, before the 1999 and 2000 Vermont Group no-press
> tournaments (which didn't go so well).
Message [from Russia] to all
> Broadcast message in 'titleist':
>
> My results in the 2001 NoPress Tourney is no better than the other
> years. So my rating will probably sink even further. I guess I'm just
> really bad at strategy.
No, that's not an accurate conclusion. My rating is pretty evenly
the result of my press ability and my strategy and tactics, but so far
I've lost four games in the 2001-VGNP. I did not lose because I
was outplayed, but because someone else did something stupid like
stabbing for a single Center, or failing to recognize that it was
necessary to form a "Stop the Leader" alliance, in spite of repeated
Convoys of his Armies to the Leader's capital. It doesn't matter how
well you play if the people near you do dumb things that hurt you and
help someone else.
Message from Observer to Observer
From: Douglas T. Massey E-mail: masseyd@b...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(For those who aren't aware, Karlis finished the *first* round of
the VGFP tournament as the top seed, with a solo and a 2WD. As he
mentioned, he finished the *second* round tied for . . . uh . . .
well, not in first place anymore. :-) )
> I have more to tell, but I would have to reveal details about round 2
> of the tournament. Doug, is this permissible?
'Fraid not. The games are still NoReveal. I told the losers from
the round two games who the winners were, but on promise of secrecy.
Even though this mailing list is supposed to be outside the realm
of the participants in 'titleist', I'd still like to keep mum about
the round two games.
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont
\o ASICs Product Development Engineering |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~masseyd (|)
Message [from Germany] to all
>
> > Broadcast message in 'titleist':
> >
> > My results in the 2001 NoPress Tourney is no better than the other
> > years. So my rating will probably sink even further. I guess I'm just
> > really bad at strategy.
>
> No, that's not an accurate conclusion. My rating is pretty evenly
> the result of my press ability and my strategy and tactics, but so far
> I've lost four games in the 2001-VGNP. I did not lose because I
> was outplayed, but because someone else did something stupid like
> stabbing for a single Center, or failing to recognize that it was
> necessary to form a "Stop the Leader" alliance, in spite of repeated
> Convoys of his Armies to the Leader's capital. It doesn't matter how
> well you play if the people near you do dumb things that hurt you and
> help someone else.
Oh don't get me started on my bad luck for neighbors. I swear this is
what happened one year. When I was Russia, Turkey opened to Armenia.
When I was Germany, England left himself WIDE open to France, and never
responded after being stabbed. When I was France, England made his 1st
build a fleet in Liverpool. When I was Austria, Italy opened to Trieste.
I will admit culpability though. I tend to trust people entirely too
much. In the NoPress tournaments there seems to be a lot of stabbing
going on just for the sake of the stab. I've never changed tactics to
match this. Guess I'm just too much of a nice guy. Note my two way
win. My partner didn't come through, so I guess it's ok to say that I
carried him over the finish line. I basically put a gun to his head and
said that he'll take the two way, my way. (Maybe I'm not that nice)
Message from Germany to England
Ivy Wingo seems to have been a Cincinnati Red who holds the record of
most errors by a catcher, probably because he played the most games. I
cheated and looked it up. Is that wrong? I haven't found any reference
for that Name in England. And I read English history as a hobby.
On to other topics.
I expect that we have lots of time to talk, before and after the first
move. Your moves are standard. You'll certainly go into the North Sea.
The only decision that you have is to go to the Channel or NWG. My
choices are equally mundane. I could surprise everyone and go for
something like Tyrolia or Prussia, but I'll bet that nobody does
anything out of the ordinary this first move.
This leaves us free to talk of greater ideals.
For instance. In most games everyone starts out looking for the win,
then they settle for a draw if need be. The number of units not being
important in that draw. That's not the case here. Every piece we can
get our hands on is very important. I doubt if anyone will be willing
to accept a draw except for the person with the most units. The win is
what we all want, nothing else will do.
I think all of this will make for a very deliberate game. I won't be
surprised to see alliances shift move after move. Whoa onto the power
which gains a lead. Everyone will jump on him. Could this turn into a
7 way draw? Naw, but I'll be surprised if we're done by Christmas.
Looking closer to home. You're completely correct in your initial
comments. France usually does have his choice of E or G as an ally.
I'll go further and say that it's usually England. Then the game turns
on whether France can get into the Irish Sea or not. If he goes for it
he's usually successful.
England and Germany usually try to talk France into going after Italy.
But France doesn't usually do that, at least initially.
Looking at our France. He certainly does have a silver tongue. You
have to like the guy. I'll bet that whoever he's holding the knife
behind his back for, won't even mind when he slips it in. Therefore, I
share your concerns that this France will be especially dangerous. I
believe that it'll be in our mutual interests to take him out. How to
go about that could be our topic of discussion for awhile. I like your
idea of England going south and Germany going NE. I'm glad you didn't
try to blow smoke up me bum by presenting a plan where you'd be in
Scandinavia and France. Pincher around my territory are never the basis
of a strong alliance.
I've been running at the fingers here. I'll send another note out soon
covering the theoretical goals of England and Germany.
Fred.
Message from Germany to France
How was the Prologue of the TDF? I watched live on TV. I'm a road
biker myself, with over 1200 miles traveled already this year. If you
don't hear from me, perhaps it'll be because I'm slipping the miles by
somewhere. My man came in 4th. I was hoping for more. 2 out of the
top 5 being Frenchmen, you must be proud.
Continuing our discussion of AT vs EG parallels.
I'd have to say that the reason that EG is much more common than AT is
the narrow path that Turkey has to get out. He has to go through the
Ionian and Aegean, or through Sevastopol. All of these bump up against
'normal' Austrian territory. While if England goes south or east, he can
operate far from the German homeland. Thus the threat is reduced in that
situation.
The similarity is the pincher problem you mention. Austria is
reluctant to have Turkey going west AND north. Just as any German of
moderate intelligence will work long and hard to make sure that England
doesn't go South AND East. I can say that in this game if England tries
to go into Scandinavia AND go against you, I will attack him on one of
those fronts. I fully realize that if he gets a favorable position like
that, I'm a goner.
Speaking theoretically, how do you see alliances working in this
game? My belief is that there will be no long term alliances. I
wouldn't be surprised to see alliances form and break with every turn.
In a typical game at least one strong alliance will form at the
beginning of the game. Lets say EF for the sake of argument. England
goes west, France heads SE. If they stay partners, they steamroll the
opposition. But what usually happens is that one of the partners gets
lucky and faces easier opposition. This partner takes a lead in unit
count. That's ok in most games, as draw is as good as a win in a lot of
situations. Sometimes it's more rewarding to NOT go for the stab. As
one can then feel that he's not a total dick. In this game it'll be
different. There is no tomorrow. I don't see anyone allowing a
'partner' to get a lead. Whoa onto anyone who gets a lead in this
game. The wolfs will eat him up. I guess I'm saying that I don't see
that a conventional alliance will work. Suppose I build three in the
first year. Wouldn't you and England immediately take me down? I would
expect it. Same goes for you, if you were to build three, I'd have to
seriously talk to England about containing any further French expansion.
I suppose an alliance could be made where two powers promise to build
equally up to a certain number. Say 10. Then it's every man for himself.
Frederick
Message from Germany to Russia
Nicky:
How did you find out that there is a great deal of communication
between E and F? Your intelligence network must be vastly superior to
my own. Although I'll admit that I suspected as much (EF burning up the
Internet). But then that would be normal. My intentions is to be
minimal with my communications to these powers. Enough to let them know
that I'm around, but not enough to inadvertently contradict myself. Or
let them in on the secret that the Germans are a very obnoxious bunch.
;-)
As for Sweden, etc. I think I'll cover that with a broader brush in
this press. It's my opinion that for the German to win, he must get to
a corner. The SE corner is out of the question. That leaves the other
three. To get to one of the other three corners I have to fight
straight through either you, England, or France. The NE or NW corner
has been the favorite German target for most games. Both have
advantages and disadvantages. Russia is usually tied up in the south
with Austria and Turkey so that would make you a good target. However,
allying with Russia to kick england out of Norway usually weakens E
enough that an assault on the English island has a good chance for
success.
Let's continue our discussion through the first move. I don't see any
reason that we all can't keep talking right through that turn. I can't
imagine that someone is going to make a radical opening move.
I will say that I'll probably open to Denmark. That doesn't mean that
I intend to bounce you out of Sweden in the fall. I does mean that I
don't want to give England the opportunity to bounce me out of Denmark
in the fall. Opening to Holland does give me the opportunity to build
three the first year. But I'd rather not do that. I'd just as soon not
still my head up early on.
Freddy
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Gentlemen:
I'm sure that you're tied up with communications with Turkey and
Russia. So I'll keep this short.
Remember the old song 'Stuck in the Middle with You'? It appears that
that's exactly what we are. We all know that we're on the inside
looking out. All the other powers have to come to the middle to collect
centers. We on the other hand have to expand outward. A much tougher
job.
If this were a earlier round game, and all we needed was a draw, I'd
propose that the three of us stick together til the endgame. Since the
object in this game isn't a draw, that won't really work. But we should
at least agree to keep our communications lines open, and not to
pressure each other for the first couple of moves.
For my part I'll say up front that I won't be going to Tyrolia this
turn. If either of you feel the need to move there I'd appreciate a
heads up on that move. Knowing that you're going in and why will
certainly go a long way toward relieving an urge to immediately attack
that unit.
Play on
Frederick MLXXXVII
Message from Germany to Italy
Roberto:
Get off that chair, go and get your Oscar. You're one happy guy,
aren't you.
Whoops, I didn't read your press about the Center Alliance, before
sending you that note about GAI. Obviously I agree.
We do have one other source of discussion. Obviously France. Nothing
is resolved with respect to Belgium yet. In fact nobody's even brought
up the subject. Yet. It's mostly been a lot of happy talk, England
proposing that we attack France, France proposing that we attack
England. I think that they ought to attack each other and leave me
alone. The usual opening game press.
England makes an interesting argument that I had already thought of.
That our France is probably the favorite and #1 seed. While the
'underdog' and the 8th seed are probably in GAI somewhere. IE the
best player is sitting with the most powerful country. France. It
does bear serious consideration.
I'd suggest that Italy head west, and if you were to do this I'd
certainly pledge my support. But I realize that Italian designs are
rarely to immediately turn toward France. Even after the 1st build. Too
many other problems in Turkey to take care of. Plus England and Germany
usually tie up France enough that he's too busy to swing south.
If I were in your shoes I'd build a good talking relationship with
Germany, so you can be aware if France/England build a juggernaut, and
France heads south. Then I'd work with Austria to take out Turkey.
Keeping an eye to the west.
I'll agree to be your spy at any time. In exchange there's not really
much that I can ask for. Certainly any intelligence that you can pass
along to me will be helpful. But I doubt if E or F will give you real
insight. I'd love to see an Italian army in Piedmont. I can't ask for
that though, as I realize that that would compromise any agreement that
you have with France. And there's no sense in tugging on Superman's
cape.
I will add a further thought though. If Italy is to win the game,
you'll have to get a fleet into the Atlantic. There is not better way
to do that than to ally with Germany and England early, and partition
France. Get yourself past that stalemate point early on, and your
chances of getting the win go up.
Frederick LXXIV
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
How is it in the southern climes? It's HOT here. HOT, HOT, HOT.
I thought it would be prudent to open a line of communication between
us. It's been my experience that I get along the best with the powers
who are farthest from me. I can't imagine why that is. Ha.
Anyway, I look forward to discussing issues, ideology, and tactics with
you as the game rolls on. I doubt that discussing our mutual neighbors
will do much good. They're not about to tell me anything about what
their intentions are toward you. Although Russia could be a subject
that we discuss the most. As he'll certainly concentrate on the south or
the north. I hope he moves south, while you hope the opposite, I'm
sure. However, perhaps we'll have the opportunity to coordinate a
joint move against him at some future time.
Frederick MCMXXV
Message from Germany to Austria
Gina Hapsburg Schmidt - great name, great beer drinker. You've sent her
to the right place.
I'm running a little short on poetic prose at the moment. Spending too
much effort with England and France as you might suspect.
Let the Center Alliance go! Is my battle cry.
We have little to talk about yet except for strategy and tactics, and
maybe a little Russian conversation. Perhaps we'll meet soon on the
Russian Steppe. EF is my primary interest, but as the German I realize
that I need to get to a corner to win. The NE has always been the most
tempting.
If you conversations with Nicky don't go well, drop me a line, and
perhaps we can develop a plan of action.
Frederick MCVVII
Message from Austria to France
> I send my welcome to you and hope to develop a strong relationship.
Oh, what a week this has been. I'm sorry I didn't get here earlier, but
I've been busy. Really busy.
OK, I, too, hope we can have a productive relationship.
The only information of substance I have for you is that Italy has told
our Italian ambassador that Italy has a non-aggression agreement with
you. I tend to believe him.
Have you heard anything?
Felicia, on behalf of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
Message from Austria to England
> Am I overlooking anything important?
What a week this has been.
No, I can't think of anything you've overlooked. Your relationships with
Russia, Germany, and France are of course of some import to my little
empire, but I doubt we can help each other much there as yet. When that
changes, as I'm sure it will, we'll have more of substance to discuss.
Edna, representing the Empire of Austria-Hungary
Message from Austria to Russia
> The Turks are bound to attack one of our great nations in 1902 or '03,
If so, I must hope that it is yours!
Actually, your point is well-taken. Our strategic advisory council
suggests that Austria-Russia is a quite powerful alliance, and has urged
me to pursue that possibility. Accordingly, I suggest that we
cooperate.
An initial goal for such a joint effort would be the elimination of
Turkey, whichever of us he chooses to attack first. Would such a plan
hold any interest for you?
Sincerely,
Ralassa
Message from Austria to France
> My first question is whether you will represent your
> country only to France or do your duties extend to all
> the great countries in Europe?
I have the honor of the posting to France.
Felicia
Message from Austria to Russia
> I [...] hope that we can resolve the unrest in Galicia without
> conducting military operations there this Spring.
The Archduke shares that hope, but would not be averse to joint
military maneuvers there as a prelude to further cooperation.
So, do you have immediate need for your Warsaw army elsewhere? If
not, perhaps a bounce in Warsaw would make the proper impression on
our neighbors.
Ralassa
Message from Austria to Turkey
My Dearest Ali,
What a week this has been! I apologize for taking so long to journey to
Constantinople to represent my Archduke; he was travelling, and barely
had time to appoint me before moving on. And I was so surprised! It
took me *days* to get myself together.
Anyway, I'm here now.
In my readings, I've learned that some Turkish leaders feels they have
no good alternative to an alliance with Russia. Your predecessor may
have felt that way, but as you've clearly taken a new direction, I hope
that you can see how well an alliance between Turkey and Austria-Hungary
can work.
Essentially, if we work together, Russia can be easily dispatched.
After that, Turkey has an easy naval path of expansion, while Austria
keeps to land. As Turkey need build only fleets, and Austria only
armies, they have some assurance against stabs. The Italian centers
and/or the centers along the Black Sea coast can be passed back and
forth to maintain strategic balance, making fearful stabs unnecessary.
Does any of this make sense to you?
Yours Truly,
Tamara
Message [from Austria] to all
> England may wish to adopt the American USPS team, as they
> share a common language.
surely you must be joking
Message [from Austria] to all
> Note my two way
> win. My partner didn't come through, so I guess it's ok to say that I
> carried him over the finish line. I basically put a gun to his head and
> said that he'll take the two way, my way.
dale didnt make it to the finals just you your better
than him right
Message from England to France
Good Prince Boar,
OK, I'll take that American team that you recommended.
>While we wait, shall we discuss the inevitable topic:
>The English Channel. I hope that we can just agree to
>not enter in and be done with it. A move to the Channel
>is the surest sign of war. The only thing that rivals it
>is a move to Prussia and Silesia. Therefore, let's just
>say that we both understand that entering the Channel
>means war and put the topic behind us. Sound good to
>you, Young Pup?
This sounds good to me. Surprisingly, in games that I have played, the
Channel nevers seems to be a powder keg the way, say, the Black Sea is. It
seems to be very difficult for Russia and Turkey to trust each other over
the Black Sea in 1901, but the Channel stays vacent even in games in which
France and England eventually come to blows. Perhaps it is because England
is drawn to Norway and France to Iberia initially, which also gives them an
extra year to size up their neighbors.
On to the topic of Munich. I consider Munich to be yours, while my domain
lies to the north. Belgium, as we've discussed earlier, is up for grabs,
but I vow it will not be so great an issue with me that it could dampen the
partnership.
Germany sent his first real note. He seeks a partnership, but there was
nothing especially attractive in style or content that makes me want to
rethink my preference to go with France/England.
[My home internet connection is down, and I trudged to the office this
morning to rush out some e-mail. Lately, with lots of rain and storms, my
telephone-line supported modem is hopeless in the evening.]
Ivy Wingo
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Italy
My good Roberto,
>> Ha-ha. So you do know me. Why not just announce my i.d. in
>> a broadcast and claim the prize?
>>
>
>What?, and spoil everybody elses fun.
Two of our friends have identified me after confessing that they consulted
references. A third had given up. I expect that in another day I will
announce you as the winner and make a few comments on the subject.
Had I been Van Lingle Mungo, would you have known me? Did you know Ivy
Wingo because you are a Reds fan or a J. Bench fan? Or are you an all
around baseball fan?
>The more I think about it and the more I discuss issues with the other
>powers, perhaps my best approach would be a quick strike against France.
>Have you heard from Germany yet?
Yes, finally. Please make his acquaintence yourself and let me know what
you think. An anti-French assault is not very attractive for Italy if
Germany is not on board. If Germany is on board, then its a cakewalk. The
three of us could evenly share Spain, Portugal, Marseilles, Paris, Brest,
and Belgium very, very quickly.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nicky,
>Given
>that Germany would join with one of you, and attack the other, and that
>would mean his forces would be headed west, leaving him open to a
>stab once France was eliminated, I do prefer that idea over you allying
>with France and the two of you overrunning Germany and appearing
>on my border in force.
Another advantage to you is that an eg attack on France draws my forces to
the south, whereas a French/English assault on Germany puts my forces in
Scandinavia. Also the attack on France takes much longer. So why does it
interest me? Same reason: I think that the French player is so good that I
just don't want to see him begin to grow. If we do manage to take out
France, and you thrive as well, there could be lots of opportunities for
the two of us to work together on a common project.
Anyhow, Germany is finally talking!
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Hi Fred!
>Ivy Wingo seems to have been a Cincinnati Red who holds the record of
>most errors by a catcher
Yup.
>I cheated and looked it up. Is that wrong?
Yup.
> And I read English history as a hobby.
Interesting, for I dabble in history a little. One of the greatest books I
ever read was Barbara Tuchman's "The Guns of August." Not exactly pure
English history, but England was certainly involved.
>I expect that we have lots of time to talk, before and after the first
>move. Your moves are standard. You'll certainly go into the North Sea.
>The only decision that you have is to go to the Channel or NWG.
Well, NWG is standard, but the Channel is very bold. However, the Channel
is my strong preference. Let me be very clear here: I will open to the
Channel, if you open to Burgundy.
>I could surprise everyone and go for
>something like Tyrolia or Prussia,
That could be fun, but it turns your back on both England and France.
That's just too inviting for England/France, and I suspect that in this
high stakes game everyone will be more conventional.
>This leaves us free to talk of greater ideals.
>For instance. In most games everyone starts out looking for the win,
>then they settle for a draw if need be. The number of units not being
>important in that draw. That's not the case here. Every piece we can
>get our hands on is very important. I doubt if anyone will be willing
>to accept a draw except for the person with the most units. The win is
>what we all want, nothing else will do.
> I think all of this will make for a very deliberate game. I won't be
>surprised to see alliances shift move after move. Whoa onto the power
>which gains a lead. Everyone will jump on him.
Very, very interesting. You are the first person to discuss the
implications of Doug's stipulation in which the person with the most units
in a draw becomes the grand champion. This makes any endgame very
unstable, and a solo more likely.
I've thought hard about this and how it should affect long range strategy.
Here is my conclusion. It is a mistake to alter what has proven to be
successful strategy in the past. Find a partner and stick together. Stick
together when others are falling apart. Talk to members of the alliance on
the other side of the board and get them to split apart instead.
Near the end of the game, if I get careless and my partner stabs me for the
win, then that's fine. That's what I would do to you if it could get me 18
centers. So that's what I want. I want to be part of a team that is says
together while the number of players is whittled down one by one.
What won't work though is a stab that gets me from 10 to 12 or from 12 to
14, etc. Because, as you have observed, the other two or three players
will then just chop me back down again. It won't do to just get ahead, if
it falls short of victory. Better to grow slowly and evenly and remain at
the same size as others as long as possible.
> Looking closer to home. You're completely correct in your initial
>comments. France usually does have his choice of E or G as an ally.
>I'll go further and say that it's usually England.
That's what I am trying to avoid. Giving France, a terrific player in this
instance, a free ride.
> Looking at our France. He certainly does have a silver tongue. You
>have to like the guy. I'll bet that whoever he's holding the knife
>behind his back for, won't even mind when he slips it in. Therefore, I
>share your concerns that this France will be especially dangerous. I
>believe that it'll be in our mutual interests to take him out.
Yes, I like him. But I'd like his persona dead. Afterwards, I am sure the
master behind the puppet will congratulate us. He will probably be someone
who has butchered you or me or both of us in the past.
>How to
>go about that could be our topic of discussion for awhile. I like your
>idea of England going south and Germany going NE. I'm glad you didn't
>try to blow smoke up me bum by presenting a plan where you'd be in
>Scandinavia and France. Pincher around my territory are never the basis
>of a strong alliance.
Yeah, this is why France usually gets his choice of allies. I am very
serious about me pulling out of Norway and pushing far to the south. You
can have Norway when I get compensation down there. For example, we might
first put you in Belgium but transfer it to me when you take Norway.
Whatever. Let's feel our way as we go. Sweden is also yours, but I
suggest that you let Russia sleep there in peace until France is no longer
a threat. We don't want Russia helping France.
It is possible that Italy could be part of an attack on France. That would
really finish off the Boar quite fast. Whether or not Italy joins in, I
prefer that he not get wind of my southern strategy. I have to go to the
Med if you and I are to remain friends.
I think we have something going here.
Ivy
Message from France to all
Well, that was an exciting opening to the First Stage of
the Tour de France. After opening ceremony, I was
distracted by an argument over whether the middleclass
truly has freedom. So I will reply on the following
excerpt from the offical royal coverage of the race:
Festina rider Christophe Moreau, winner of the
recent Dauphine Libere stage race, has stunned the
Tour de France by winning the prologue by an
outstanding three seconds. Defending champion
Lance Armstrong (USPS) finished the 8.2 kilometer
test just four seconds behind Moreau.
He went on to add that the Festina rider was helped when
a team mate grabbed a spoke from his wheel and poked
Lance Armstrong while he was making his move. I have
discounted this claim of course. It is not that I think
that there would be no stabbing going on, I think that
amounts to a minor fine. I just do not believe one can
remove spoke from a wheel at high speeds.
Well, with this first victory, my team Festina takes the
first points! Vivre la France! That does pose a dilema
however. If Festina wins, that means my sister wins a
date with my brother, the Dauphin. Well, I do not mind
punishing my brother like that, but my sister deserves
something better. Perhaps I can give the Dauphin too
much wine and send him off with the 90 year old chamber
maid who assists my sister.
Official Tally:
(note that I assigned teams to Austria and Turkey)
Austria (Domo-Farm Frites): 0 points
England (USPS): 0 points
France (Festina): 10 points
Germany (Telekom): 0 points
Italy (Fassa Bortolo): 0 points
Russia (Robobank): 0 points
Turkey (CSC): 0 points
Doug (O.N.C.E.): 0 points
I will try to send more diplomacy related mail later
today after I do some mundane things like go hunting
(take a trip to the grocery store).
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Germany
Freddy,
> How did you find out that there is a great deal of communication
> between E and F?
It is supposition on my part, but given that everyone has mentioned how
much press they are sending, it seems unlikely that they wouldn't be talking
to each other.
> As for Sweden, [...] for the German to win, he must get to
> a corner. Russia is usually tied up in the south with Austria and
> Turkey so that would make you a good target.
Of course, Germany attempting to reach St. Petersburg with England and
France still strong, invites them to visit Kiel and Munich...
> allying with Russia to kick england out of Norway usually weakens E
> enough that an assault on the English island has a good chance for
> success.
I'm willing to consider this, of course.
> I can't imagine that someone is going to make a radical opening move.
Radical? No. Aggressive? Possibly. I would not be surprised to see a
Fleet try for the English Channel, an Italian Army in Piedmont or Tyrolia, a
Turkish Army in Armenia, or French Armies in Burgundy and Picardy. (You
will not see a Russian Army in Silesia, however. That crosses the line from
agressive to foolish, in my opinion.)
> I will say that I'll probably open to Denmark. That doesn't mean that
> I intend to bounce you out of Sweden in the fall. It does mean that I
> don't want to give England the opportunity to bounce me out of Denmark
> in the fall.
By extension then, you shouldn't risk Den - Swe in the Fall, since
Den-Swe, Nth-Den, Bot-Bal, is even worse for you than getting bounced out of
Den in the Fall.
> Opening to Holland does give me the opportunity to build
> three the first year. But I'd rather not do that. I'd just as soon
> not stick my head up early on.
Understandable, but Kie-Hol also lets you support France or England into
Bel, and solidify an alliance. (Just a thought.) I will certainly attempt
to keep the lines of communication open throughout 1901, and beyond.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Austria
Ralassa,
> Message from Austria to Russia in 'titleist':
> Our strategic advisory council suggests that Austria-Russia is
> a quite powerful alliance, [...] I suggest that we cooperate.
Excellent!
> An initial goal for such a joint effort would be the elimination of
> Turkey, whichever of us he chooses to attack first. Would such
> a plan hold any interest for you?
Yes, that is why I raised the spectre of a Turkish attack upon us
in my first letter. If the Turk is to be eliminated, it is best done early.
> > I [...] hope that we can resolve the unrest in Galicia without
> > conducting military operations there this Spring.
>
> The Archduke shares that hope, but would not be averse to joint
> military maneuvers there as a prelude to further cooperation.
No, there is an obvious benefit to joint-training exercises,
particularly if they are not announced to our neighbors beforehand.
> So, do you have immediate need for your Warsaw army elsewhere?
Well, by moving into the Ukraine in the Spring, the Warsaw Guards would
be positioned to occupy Rumania in the Fall as part of the Turkish Attack
Variant of the Southern System, but that's just one possibility.
Cordially,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> Another advantage to you is that an eg attack on France draws my forces
> to the south, whereas a French/English assault on Germany puts my forces
> in Scandinavia.
True. It also allows you to try to break into the Med as we pressure
Germany together, once France falls..
> Also the attack on France takes much longer.
Not if you/we can convince Italy to send a Unit or two west. EIR has
potential, I think.
> If we do manage to take out France, and you thrive as well, there could
> be lots of opportunities for the two of us to work together
Agreed. There was a recent article in the DipPouch that discussed
stable two-ways. I was surprised to see that there were several possible
for England and Russia. I had always thought that the "St. Petersburg
Question" would make that difficult if not impossible, but I am glad to see
that that is not the case.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to all
"St. Petersburg Pravda"
"A Slow Start for Team Robobank"
> Well, that was an exciting opening to the First Stage of the Tour de
France.
> Official Tally:
> Russia (Robobank): 0 points
It was learned today that the members of Team Robobank were delayed by
Union Steward V. I. Lenin, who was attempting to explain the benefits that
unionization would present to both bank workers and bicyclists. Union
Steward Lenin has been encouraged to attempt to unionize other teams before
the next stage, and to speak with Team Robobank only after the stage has
been completed.
Message from Germany to France
Keep the TDF accounts coming. I watched yesterday, and taped today's
race. I'll watch it tonight. Had to go do some riding myself. A
simple little 38 mile out and back. But it was that 10,000 ft elevation
gain that was the killer. (I could be exaggerating about that)
As an aside. Can we agree to stay out of Burgundy this turn? Or
perhaps bounce there?
Fred
Message from Germany to Russia
> > As for Sweden, [...] for the German to win, he must get to
> > a corner. Russia is usually tied up in the south with Austria and
> > Turkey so that would make you a good target.
>
> Of course, Germany attempting to reach St. Petersburg with England and
> France still strong, invites them to visit Kiel and Munich...
Tell me about it.
> > I can't imagine that someone is going to make a radical opening move.
>
> Radical? No. Aggressive? Possibly. I would not be surprised to see a
> Fleet try for the English Channel, an Italian Army in Piedmont or Tyrolia, a
> Turkish Army in Armenia, or French Armies in Burgundy and Picardy. (You
> will not see a Russian Army in Silesia, however. That crosses the line from
> agressive to foolish, in my opinion.)
Likewise I have no plans for going to Prussia or Silesia this turn.
Freddy
Message from Russia to Germany
Freddy,
> > You will not see a Russian Army in Silesia
> Likewise I have no plans for going to Prussia or Silesia this turn.
Would you care to formalize this understanding? Say, ...
"No Russian or German Unit will move, or attempt to move, to Bal, Pru, or
Sil in 1901, 1902 or 1903. Russia will not interfere with German occupation
of Denmark, nor will Germany interfere with Russian occupation of Sweden.
This DMZ can be extended in time and/or provinces through mutual agreement
in 1903."
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Germany to France
Just chock up those Telecom points. I must admit I forgot about Erik
Zabel.
Fred
Message from Austria to Russia
> Well, by moving into the Ukraine in the Spring, the Warsaw Guards
> would be positioned to occupy Rumania in the Fall as part of the Turkish
> Attack Variant of the Southern System, but that's just one possibility.
Should Turkey bounce you from the Black Sea in the spring, I think a
Ukraine army would be better used in supporting the Sevastopol fleet to
Rumania. That would allow you to build a second fleet in Sevastopol.
If you wanted to build that second fleet, then Mos-Sev would be
counterproductive. So Moscow could easily be the army which moves to
Ukraine, leaving Warsaw free to bounce in Galicia, giving our opponents
the impression that we were at war. Or, Warsaw could move to Silesia,
giving Germany fits. Finally, if you preferred to give England fits, a
northern opening (Moscow - St. Petersburg in spring) could be accompanied
by War-Ukr.
Please let me know which you prefer; I am comfortable with any of these.
Ralassa
Message from Germany to Russia
> Message from Russia to Germany in 'titleist':
>
> Freddy,
>
> > > You will not see a Russian Army in Silesia
> > Likewise I have no plans for going to Prussia or Silesia this turn.
>
> Would you care to formalize this understanding? Say, ...
> "No Russian or German Unit will move, or attempt to move, to Bal, Pru, or
> Sil in 1901, 1902 or 1903. Russia will not interfere with German occupation
> of Denmark, nor will Germany interfere with Russian occupation of Sweden.
> This DMZ can be extended in time and/or provinces through mutual agreement
> in 1903."
>
> Czar Nicholas II.
Actually, I don't put much stock in formal agreements. They're worth
about as much as they're written on.
I realize that I'm being coy here. But it's the start of the game and
we're feeling each other out, and getting to know one another.
I realize that many people play with game by looking for the opportunity
to stab someone. I rarely play that way. Although it's probably
inevitable that we'll all have to stab in the endgame. But because so
many people are liars, I like to play it loose through the early game,
and see who does what they say. Or who will say what they're going to
do. In this case we're both stated a move that we're not going to
make. Let's see if we really do that. Next turn, we'll see again.
Perhaps we can exchange something besides what we're not going to do.
Frederick MCMIIIII
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
Well, I have received meaningful letters from everyone now, though
England and France continue to be winning the battle for press frequency.
Given Germany's late start, I have been pretty free in expressing my concern
to England about France's natural advantages, and Prince Boar's obvious
skill with a pen. He seems to agree with my evaluation, but is
understandably hesitant to commit to an attack without support from Germany.
I floated the possibility of EIR to Ivy without suggesting that our
relationship is particularly close. Opening Ven-Pie might be all it would
take to get England to commit, and an EF war would be to both our
advantages, I think. What you do with Army Venice is, of course, your
decision, though.
The Austrian Ambassador has finally arrived in St. Petersburg, and I am
favorably impressed. (Particularly since the Archduke has been so
unimpressive.) The Austrian Ambassador and I are discussing a possible
attack on Turkey, but I have not, and do not plan to, mention you. Better
that the Archduke thinks he has two separate allies against Turkey than that
there is an AIR vs. T arrangement. Ali Baba and I are, of course,
discussing the possibility of a Juggernaut, but frankly, I feel the risks
outweigh the benefits. Frederick of Germany says he plans to respond to the
barrage of press from EF largely with silence, which I do not understand,
but we are discussing Sweden, and I am hopeful that he will not oppose
Sweden joining the EEU under Russian protection. How does this match up
with what you are hearing?
In Friendship,
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Germany
Freddy,
> Actually, I don't put much stock in formal agreements.
That's unfortunate.
> it's the start of the game and we're feeling each other
> out, and getting to know one another.
Yes, and it seems that you are steadfastly refusing to commit on the
smallest issues. I find that troubling, so I will directly address the
question. Will you allow my Fleet to assume control of Sweden in F1901, or
will you oppose that action? If you are opposed, what can I do to change
your mind? If you are undecided, what can I do to encourage you to decide
in my favor?
> because so many people are liars, I like to play it loose through the
early game,
> and see who does what they say. Or who will say what they're going to do.
Perhaps I'm too honest, but at this level I expect that people will tell
as much of the truth as possible, and lie only when neccessary to achieve a
specific objective. Since it does not make sense for Germany and Russia to
come into conflict in the opening, we have no reason to lie to one another,
and every reason to cooperate where possible.
> In this case we're both stated a move that we're not going to
> make. Let's see if we really do that. Next turn, we'll see again.
> Perhaps we can exchange something besides what we're not going to do.
To be successful, I think we have to look beyond the current turn. If
you think you might need my assistance against England, then Mos-StP would
be appropriate this Spring. If you believe you are more likely to come into
conflict with France, then Mos-StP would be counter-productive.
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Austria
> Should Turkey bounce you from the Black Sea in the spring, I think a
> Ukraine army would be better used in supporting the Sevastopol fleet to
> Rumania. That would allow you to build a second fleet in Sevastopol.
Yes, what happens in the Fall will, of course, depend on the Spring, and
I do understand that you would prefer a Fleet in Rumania to an Army. I do
realize that I have many openings available to me, and I have not yet
decided which to use. If you feel there would be an advantage to the
appearance of conflict in Galicia, I'm willing to order War-Gal, but since
our target is Turkey, I think moving that way would be better. The "Turkish
Attack" is wonderful if Turkey open Ank-Con, but a problem otherwise, so my
choice of opening will depend on my sense of his intentions, and what the
situation in Scandinavia seems to require. Any information you can provide
on those subjects would be much appreciated.
Czar Nicholas II
Message from Germany to Russia
I haven't decided whether to bounce you out of Sweden in the fall yet.
(And I haven't given it a lot of thought yet. My concern is EF)
Primarily because you didn't answer my question as to what you'd do with
that build if you got it. So you see we're both playing this the
same way. Neither of us wants to give away our hands yet, or commit to
something which will look bad in the future.
For your part I imagine that you don't really want to say where you'll
put that build because of your ongoing negotiations in the south. If
they bear fruit, you won't need a build down there, and you can begin to
think about Norway. (It's possible that MOS - STP, but I'd have to say
highly unlikely. It leaves you too open on your southern border. If
Turkey opens to Armenia you'll be in a heap of trouble.)
Frederick
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicolas:
>From a Russian theoretical perspective, it would
>make more sense to eliminate England first.
I see your point. England is difficult to eliminate,
especially once she gets too large. But any country can
be eliminated in the medium range (6-8 centers), some
just take more work, hence more time. Time may not
always be a luxury that we can afford.
No matter which way things go, France wants to work with
Russia in the early game. I see three options, FRG
eliminating England, FRE eliminating Germany, or FR
defending ourselves against EG. I prefer one of the
first two, obviously. But I am not ready to choose one
over the other. I think that it will depend on how
things go. But keep me apprised on how you see things.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I must apologize that my reference list of tactical
maneuvers was lost. Maybe it was the same intern that
spilled spaghetti on your map - or perhaps a relative?
At any rate, I cannot at the moment explain to you what
the Alpine Chicken is. I suspect it may be a dance. In
my younger days I used to do this thing called the
chicken dance. Perhaps one day I can show it to you, or
if you know it we can do it together. It used to be
accompanied by drinking beer, so we will have to keep
that in mind.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
Ivy Wingo:
Your last message had two signatures. I am not certain
if you have a split personality or if you fear that I
will forget your name. Fear not, I will always remember
it!
Speaking of names, what is the name of the Austrian
Ambassador? I have the feeling that we each have our own
person. Austria must be rich to be able to pay so many
functionaries! The Austrian ambassador to France is
Felicia something or other. I have it written down
somewhere.
I am glad to hear that you favor a French/English
alliance to the German/English alliance. I am of the
same mind as you. I feel that we have a lot in common in
style. Specifically: wanting a long term alliance,
keeping our size balanced, keeping up the level of
communication. I would add that I pledge to be
reasonable and always discuss the options and not try to
ram my ideas down your throat.
I was glad to get your note on the Channel. Now we need
not waste any time discussion it again. Let's work
towards keeping Belgium a neutral. It is the best
option. Our Spring movements should keep that in mind.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Emperor Frederick:
I want to answer your questions related to strategy and
territories immediately. I also really want to talk
about biking, but that will have to wait until the end
because the other topic is more important. I never want
to wait to long to answer a question from an important
neighbor and hopefully ally.
First, as for Burgundy - I am open to a bounce. I just
want to make certain that we keep our options open to
bounce England from Belgium and Russia from Sweden if we
so choose. I guess that the only way to accomplish that
is for me to move to Picardy and you to move to Denmark.
We can then order Marseilles and Munich to Burgundy. I
will put that as my default orders and wait while we
discuss things further.
Now to turn to your topics on alliances. I do see your
point why England and Germany can ally more than Turkey
and Austria. Although the successful AT alliance has the
same elements that you describe for an EG. Turkey can be
restricted to only one direction, North with armies, or
West with fleets. I suppose that Turkey is slightly more
boxed in; but I think that the analogy is closer than
most people realize. Perhaps there is something to do
with Italy that makes it different. Oh well, something
for me to ponder on alone. I will not bother you with it
no longer. I do truly appreciate your taking the time to
discuss it with me.
I did find your statement that long term alliances would
be unlikely, very interesting. I was thinking that it
would be nice to find a long term ally. But it will be
very hard to sustain it. Not only is there the issue of
one getting larger than the other. There is also the
fact that the remaining powers are smart enough to see
the strong alliance forming and band together to fight it
off. Perhaps in a game of changing alliances, it is
Italy that is the strongest country. For I have read
that it is to Italy's benefit to create such a game.
Thinking about your points on alliances is why I
suggested that Belgium remain neutral this first year.
If either one of us gets it, then we are dangerous and
will get turned on by the other and England. If we allow
England to have it, then he is really more powerful than
us because his natural defensive position gives him at
least a 1 unit leg up on us.
Now finally to biking. 38 miles! Wow! I am both
impressed and jealous. I am no longer in shape to easily
bike that far, nor could I find the time. Home, Family,
Diplomacy, Work, you know. But you are giving me more
incentive, beside my expanding gut, to find the time! I
really look forward to talking more about biking with
you, especially when the game ends.
-- Prince Boar
PS: Congratulations on the stage win. I think that
Telekom has a pretty good change at winning the Tour, or
at least winning you points. Zabel can win you some
stages, he may take the Green Jersey, and Jan may win
some stages or the entire thing. But like you, I will
cheer for Lance. I think read that some of the USPS team
members went over to Telekom this year?
At least you get OLN. I do not and must wait for the CBS
coverage. Looking at the times, it must be a cut down
version of the race. Oh well. I will have to take what
I can get. You may be better suited to give the updates,
but I happen to be playing France. :-)
Message from France to Austria
Ms. Felicia:
Thank you for your note. I was happy to hear that you
feel that Italy desires neutrality with me. I have
enough to worry about, without worrying about Italy.
Also, if you and Italy know that I desire neutrality with
him, that gives you the opportunity to put up an
effective attack on Turkey, or an effective defense
against a Juggernaut.
Russia seems friendly and we have agreed to keep in
touch. I have the usual warm fuzzies from Germany and
England. One never really knows whom will be the odd man
out until someone shows their hand. Wish me luck.
-- Prince Boat
Message from France to all
Tour de France Stage 1 Results:
With a perfectly timed sprint, German Sprinter Erik Zabel
wins the first Stage of the Tour de France. (Note that
yesterday's race was the Prologue.)
This gives 10 points to Germany and puts Zabel as the
favorite to win the Green Jersey (best sprinter).
Official Tally:
Austria (Domo-Farm Frites): 0 points
England (USPS): 0 points
France (Festina): 10 points
Germany (Telekom): 10 points
Italy (Fassa Bortolo): 0 points
Russia (Robobank): 0 points
Turkey (CSC): 0 points
Doug (O.N.C.E.): 0 points
Selected Standings:
1. Christophe Moreau (FES) 5 hrs 4 min 35 secs
2. Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (ONC) @ :03 secs
3. Lance Armstrong (USPS) :04
5. Jan Ullrich (TEL) :07
6. Florent Brard (FES) :07
10. Joseba Beloki (ONC) :13
Message from Italy to France
>
> At any rate, I cannot at the moment explain to you what
> the Alpine Chicken is.
>
Allow me, I've done some research this weekend. The Alpine Chicken opens:
ven-pie
rom-ven
nap-ion
It's intended as a feint to France since it's most popular fall move is
ven-tri; pie-tyr to catch an unsuspecting Austrian.
I must tell you that I have 4 of the other 5 powers urging me to open
ven-pie. Do you have any friends beyond me in this game? :)
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
> I expect that in another day I will announce you as
> the winner and make a few comments on the subject.
>
I'd prefer to stay anonymous. Not sure why.
> Had I been Van Lingle Mungo, would you have known me?
No.
> Did you know Ivy Wingo because you are a Reds fan or a
> J. Bench fan? Or are you an all around baseball fan?
>
Let's just say I happened to know who holds the record for most errors
all-time by a catcher and leave it at that. I will admit I did have to look
up what team he played for which is where I got the Bench reference.
> >Have you heard from Germany yet?
>
> Yes, finally. Please make his acquaintence yourself and let
> me know what you think.
>
Talked with him the other day. I was impressed. He basically said he would
not ask that I move to Piedmont but if I were so inclined that he would
pledge his full support. I'll let you know if I hear more.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Austria
Well, about the only piece of business left for me decide before I write my
spring orders is whether or not I want to convoy an army to Tunis leaving a
fleet in the Ionean for spring '02. My only concern is, that would
certainly be a strong indication to Turkey of my intent and could very well
cause a fleet build in Smyrna which would slow our progress. A fleet in
Tunis can be argued will be moving to the West Med. The Ionean leaves
little doubt to its intent. What would your preference be: convoy or no
convoy?
What did you think about Germany's message to the both of us. I think it a
good idea. While the majority of our units, at least early on, will be
focused east, I don't think we can allow an EF alliance to rollover Germany.
We need a viable German to keep the west contained at least until we're done
with Turkey. We're going to need to keep an eye out west with the
possibility of moving a unit or two to help our center neighbor. What are
your thoughts?
Roberto
Message from Russia to Germany
>Message from Germany to Russia in 'titleist':
>I haven't decided whether to bounce you out of Sweden
>in the fall yet. Primarily because you didn't answer
>my question as to what you'd do with that build if
>you got it.
Ah, ok, fair enough. It's difficult to predict
which Centers will be open for builds, since I haven't
decided on an Opening, but if you want help against
England, I'm willing to use the Swedish supplies to build
F StP/NC, (or A StP, if you prefer), or build in Mos/Sev,
and head south, if you don't want the help, or are allied
with England against France.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to all
To: diplomats far and wide.
From: Ivy Wingo
The identify Ivy Wingo contest is over. Amazingly, the winner prefers to
remain anonymous! Since I don't yet want to antagonize any of our good
fellows, I must respect this shy man's request. However, if he ever
performs a dasterdly deed I shall expose him without remorse.
Ivy Wingo was a catcher for the St. Louis Cardinals and Cincinnati Reds. I
chose the name only because I was fond of its wacky sound. It was tempting
to go with the even wackier Van Lingle Mungo, but that player has already
been celebrated in song.
Now for the prize. The prize is Belgium. The winner, although
unidentified, is free to travel to Belgium to make his claim. He may wish
travel afloat, but a land route would be quicker. I am sure that my good
friends Prince Boar and/or Freddy will issue the necessary visas upon request.
What's this I hear? I can't believe my ears. "We don't need no stinkin'
visas!"
Well, what ever happened to civility? And I thought I was playing with
gentlemen. It is indeed best that this rogue not be known by name. But
beware the snake who crawls into Belgium.
Message from England to Russia
Nicky,
> Not if you/we can convince Italy to send a Unit or two west. EIR has
>potential, I think.
Hmmm. EIR. I like the possibilities here. Each of the other four powers
is bounded by two of us, and we can work together to control them. What is
really needed to make this work is conflict, or at least deep mistrust,
between Turkey and Austria. Once one of these two is weakened, you and
Italy can handle the eastern situation easily.
I guess it goes without saying that if you and Turkey began by plowing into
Austria, then Italy (heck, the entire world) would be very wary of the
situation. We've discussed western possibilities enough that I feel free
to throw in my two cents here. I would much rather see you and Austria
begin by taking on Turkey, than you and Turkey taking on Austria.
I do understand that one has to find a friend whereever one finds a friend.
That's why, even at this point, that I cannot rule out some sort of EF
partnership. It's not my preference, though.
So let's talk up friendship with Italy. He can help both of us.
Ivy
Message from Observer to Observer
All right, let's make this interesting and try to figure out who's
playing what country. Based upon the exchanges of the players thus
far, here's what I've come up with. With all of us working together,
we should be able to figure this out.
Austria, Turkey and Germany: we have not heard much public press
from these countries, so I'm guessing that Randy and Ken have to be
playing two of the three powers (given their proclivity for
nopress). If my other guesses are correct, by process of
elimination, Rich has to be playing the third of these countries.
England, France and Italy: Allen, Roger and Jeff, because all are
friendly verbose Dippers who tend toward humor at times. I'd place
Jeff as Italy.
Russia: Eric, based upon his initial and somewhat long-winded public
press. Don't read into this that I don't think Eric is an excellent
player, because I definitely know he is. But I also think he is the
Russian.
Let's put our heads together and fill this in.
IF I'm correct in my guesses, then Allen or Roger (France or England)
could be in serious trouble. With Germany (as far as we can tell)
lying low in comparison to E and F, it's very possible that E AND F
will each attempt to court G to gang up on the other. Normally I'd
say Allen and Roger might side with each other, but given the stakes,
each will probably seek to eliminate the other. Their diplomatic
style is too similar (in my limited experience with both of them) for
them to ally in this particular game.
The reason I predicted that France will be the odd man out (in an
earlier post) is that the person who is playing France in the final
is probably one of the top finishers in the second round (since the
conventional wisdom is that France is a desirable country to play,
and the top finishers of the 2nd round had first pick of countries in
titleist), therefore the English and German players might seek to
eliminate the perceived greater threat of France.
The east is much harder to predict because we haven't heard too much
from that side. I have a feeling that England and/or France is
probably courting Jeff (Italy, if I'm correct in my guess), and Jeff
will try to form an alliance with Eric (if he is in fact playing
Russia) and one of either Austria or Turkey. In my limited
experience Jeff is an alliance player and responds to press, so if
Ken or Randy is playing A or T, Jeff will go for whichever one sends
the better press. Then again, it's not likely that Ken or Randy
would sit around and let Italy choose the alliance structure.
However, if Italy and Russia form a tight bond, it's possible they
could get the upper hand on Austria and/or Turkey, even if they were
quick to spot the danger emanating from IR.
Another possibility, if EG ally, is that Jeff could be tempted into a
joint attack on France. If Randy and Ken are playing AT, he'll do so
at his peril I'd imagine. For some reason I do not think it's
possible that Russia (Eric) will open in the north. He'll probably
seek to secure his western flank through diplomacy while focusing the
the southeast.
Obviously we'll have something of a clue once the spring moves are
adjudicated.
One other thing: what does anyone think of England's public offer of
Belgium? Is he signalling flexibility on the Belgium question in an
attempt to attract a better alliance offer from F or G, or is it a
sign of desperation in that perhaps he has not yet received a
credible offer from F or G is trying to prevent an FG?
Karlis
Message from England to France
Good Prince Boar,
>Speaking of names, what is the name of the Austrian
>Ambassador? I have the feeling that we each have our own
>person. Austria must be rich to be able to pay so many
>functionaries! The Austrian ambassador to France is
>Felicia something or other.
I have the honor of listening to Edna Hapsburg Schmidt. Edna Hapsburg
Schmidt, it turns out, has nothing to say.
Is there a pattern here? Edna for England; Felicia for France; R----- for
Russia; etc?
>I am glad to hear that you favor a French/English
>alliance to the German/English alliance. I am of the
>same mind as you. I feel that we have a lot in common in
>style. Specifically: wanting a long term alliance,
>keeping our size balanced, keeping up the level of
>communication. I would add that I pledge to be
>reasonable and always discuss the options and not try to
>ram my ideas down your throat.
These words resonate. Now we only need moves to match!
I tell myself to be patient and give the German a fair hearing, but he does
not give me enough to develop any confidence in him at all. I am ready to
move and it is only Monday.
By the way, do you have things squared away with Italy? Are you
comfortable in that quarter? He and I do chat a bit and it appears that he
too will open conventionally. He never even asked about a possible early
attack on France. However if you want me to say anything to him, I will.
Ivy
Message from England to Austria
My Dearest Edna,
Is it true that Austria has managed to send emissaries whose names begin
with the letter of the country to which they are sent? Edna for England,
R--- for Russia, T---- for Turkey, etc.? If so do I get a prize for
noticing this?
Ivy Wingo
Message from Austria to England
> Is it true that Austria has managed to send emissaries whose names begin
> with the letter of the country to which they are sent? Edna for England,
> R--- for Russia, T---- for Turkey, etc.? If so do I get a prize for
> noticing this?
I'm sure the Archduke made an effort to choose ambassadors who were
compatible with the nation with which they were posted.
Edna
Message from Austria to Italy
I don't believe it is necessary for you to decide the convoy question
until after the spring results. But it seems to me that Turkey will
almost certainly build an outside fleet this winter regardless of our
moves, unless he is required to do otherwise by a strong alliance. I
doubt that you and he will form such a strong alliance so early in this
game, and I can't imagine any other power who would prefer a Turkish
army build to a fleet build.
The Archduke's strategic advisors prefer the convoy as foundation for an
attack on Turkey. The fleet move to Tunis is one tempo closer to
France, one tempo further from Turkey. As such, it is usually
considered anti-France, and might encourage France to send a fleet into
the Med. That in turn would disrupt our attack on Turkey.
Germany's message was pleasant. His concern is probably that France is,
by geography, stronger than England or Germany unaided. If Germany is
unable to gain alliance with England, he will need both our help, either
immediately against an EF alliance, or eventually after England falls to
an FG alliance.
If an EG alliance does eventuate, France can hold out for quite a while,
until Russia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire moves against Germany -
unless, that is, Italy also moves against France, and/or Russia and the
Empire are too engaged with each other to move against Germany.
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Russia
> If you feel there would be an advantage to the appearance of conflict
> in Galicia, I'm willing to order War-Gal
The Archduke is rather fond of an American game called "poker". In it,
deceptions are sometimes carried out for no better reason than to ensure
that one's opponents are unsure whether some later action is a
deception. That is not necessarily of benefit here, and some of his
advisors are recommending against letting such thinking get out of hand.
Nevertheless, I am commissioned to present the Archduke's policies in
their best available light.
His idea, as I understand it, is that if your Warsaw army has no direct
tactical advantage to gain by a successful move, then there are clear
strategic advantages to the bounce in Galicia. It will reassure Germany
that you have a conflict in the south, making him more likely to permit
you free access to Sweden. It will reassure Italy that Austria-Hungary
has a conflict to her east, freeing him to roam further from his
homeland. It may reassure Turkey enough that he'll make moves which
aren't the strongest against a Russian-led assault, in order to be
better positioned against a possible AI alliance.
If your fleet succeeds in getting to the Black Sea, then my Serbian army
will be able and willing to support Bla-Bul, while the Moscow forces in
Ukraine take Rumania. That will leave Turkey without a build, while you
will have at least two, three if Germany allows you into Sweden. One of
those builds can be a new southern fleet, giving you two fleets to
Turkey's one, so that you can eliminate him quickly.
If your fleet is bounced from the Black Sea, then your move of Mos-Ukr
and War-Gal lets you explain to Turkey that your Black Sea move was
defensive, and you're really not after him. Now Turkey has to decide
what home center to leave vacant for the build. Assuming he's not most
concerned about the Russian threat, he's likely to order Ank-Con,
Smy-Ank to leave Smy available for the outside fleet build. Thus, when
you order Sev-Rum rather than Ukr-Rum, and build a second southern
fleet, he has no defense against that fleet's entry into the Black Sea,
and you and I can proceed to eliminate him.
If you proceed in the most straightforward way, then he can blockade
you, at the cost of leaving himself wide open to Italy. That, in turn,
would leave us dependent on Italy to aid in his elimination. While
that's not hopeless, it seems a less certain path than one which uses
the small deception of a bounce in Galicia to set up a quicker takedown
of the Ottomans.
If you can let me know your thinking on this matter, I will try to do a
thorough job of explaining it to the Archduke.
Ralassa, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to France
> Russia seems friendly and we have agreed to keep in touch. I have the
> usual warm fuzzies from Germany and England. One never really knows whom
> will be the odd man out until someone shows their hand. Wish me luck.
Good luck!
France was singularly unsuccessful in the semifinals, apparently because
the other powers assumed that the top seeds chose it first, and thus,
France's geographic advantages were accompanied by a dangerously skilled
player. If that thinking carries over here, then you'll need all the luck
I can wish you.
Message from Italy to Turkey
You gave me a lot to think about over the weekend.
>
> yes IT can and has been done. I have seen (and participated
> in) such alliances before, and they can work out quite well.
>
I think the problem is, so many games we witness are with, quite frankly,
less experienced players. Turkey has only 3 routes to expand and two of
those come into direct conflict with Italy. Italy has up to 4 routes of
expansion but 2 of those come into conflict with Turkey so I think it just
the odds are quite high either Italy or Turkey will choose 1 of the routes
that causes conflict.
> The usual problem is one of naval dominance;
> we cannot be effective together if we engage in useless
> struggles for control of the seas.
This does get to the crux of the problem. Before continuing, let me just
say that I cannot forsee a situation that I would willingly give up control
of the Ionean Sea. Similarly, I doubt you would willingly give up control
of the Aegean or Eastern Med. I think as long as we understand these
issues, then the debate over the placement of our fleets becomes more
constructive. We both need fleets for defensive purposes but we also need
them for offensive possibilities as well.
> My experience is that to make it work, Turkey
> must embark on the course of a land-based power.
I am glad to hear this. Nothing would make me happier than to see Turkey
become a land-based power.
> After all, even a land-based Turkey must have some naval resources for
> defensive purposes, and *any* Turkish fleet builds can sometimes make
> Italian admirals nervous.
Reading between the lines, I assume your first build will probably, emphasis
on probably, be a fleet. I completely understand.
> Another matter to be resolved would be who should
> be the short-term and long-term owner of Greece (and they need not
> necessarily be the same power).
>
I don't have an answer to that question just yet. Will probably depend on
the board dynamics. I can imagine though that unit should be an army
regardless of owner.
>
> Most importantly, though, I think it's a mistake to say
> "this-power and that-power are always enemies, they can
> never get along."
I completely agree and I hope I didn't make it seem like I thought we
couldn't be allies. Nothing could be farther from the truth. But, just
from our short conversation, it seems obvious that it's not a natural
occurance for Turkey to become an immediate land-based power for a couple of
reasons, 1) you need fleets for defensive purposes and 2) there are just not
a whole lot of easy, immediate centers for you to gain. Thus, the IT
alliance will take communication, cooperation, and a lot of patience. The
rewards, as you point out though, can be quite profitable.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia
I owe you a message but it has been a hectic day at work today. I hope to
be able to send something out tomorrow. Didn't want you thinking I was
ignoring you.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Germany
I owe you a message but it has been a hectic day at work today. I hope to
be able to send something out tomorrow. Didn't want you thinking I was
ignoring you.
Roberto
Message from France to all
Sorry, this will be brief. I still need to catch up on
my other mail.
Tour de France Stage 2 Results:
After riding in a break of 16 for the last 20 kilometers
Rabobank rider Marc Wauters took the victory in Stage 2
of the 2001 Tour de France today. The expected contenders
for the overall victory--Moreau, defending champion Lance
Armstrong and Jan Ullrich--all survived the day without
incident.
This gives 10 points to Russia and puts Wauters in the
Yellow Jersey. Can he hold on for the Tour de France
victory? Time will tell.
Official Tally:
Austria (Domo-Farm Frites): 0 points
England (USPS): 0 points
France (Festina): 10 points
Germany (Telekom): 10 points
Italy (Fassa Bortolo): 0 points
Russia (Robobank): 10 points
Turkey (CSC): 0 points
Doug (O.N.C.E.): 0 points
Selected Standings:
1. Marc Wauters (RAB) 9 hours 40 minutes 17 seconds
3. Servais Knaven (DFF) @ :27
4. Christophe Moreau (FES) @ :27
9. Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (ONC) @ :30
11. Lance Armstrong (USP) @ :31
12. Jan Ullrich (TEL) @ :34
13. Florent Brard (FES) @ :34
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
La Vie, C'est tres belle! Indeed!
Thank you for your explanation of the Alpine Chicken. I
had asked the Dauphin and he explained it to me as well.
And he did a little dance himself when I explained why I
was asking. He was hopping mad. He was angry with me
that I had promised that I had your neutrality, and here
you are threatening to move to Piedmont, contrary to your
earlier statement that you would not. He did calm down a
bit when I explained that you were merely telling me what
others had told you to do. At least now he is mad at
someone else and not at me. The Dauphin did suggest that
you go for a variation of the Lepanto. He said that
there is a great deal of flexibility with this opening
move. It can be used against Austria as well as Turkey.
In some variations you can annoy Germany. Anyone but
France!
According to your letter, 4 or 5 other people asked you
to move to Piedmont. Well, that would be just about
everyone, wouldn't. Either everyone is so afraid of the
Dauphin's military skill or I have succeeded in
alienating everyone! I usually take more time to annoy
people. This must be a new record.
Someone told me that France had done poorly in all the
semi-final games because people assumed that the best
players had chosen France and they ganged up on her.
Well, my first thought is I wonder how this person (who
will remain nameless) knows what happened in all three
games. At any rate. I will reply to them, and I will
repeat it to you, that the players who did the best in
Round 2 may not have been the best players from Round 1.
Therefore, the most dangerous players may be in other
countries. Also, it is entirely possible that the top
seeds chose less likely powers, just to put someone else
as the threat in the early going. It is very difficult
to know. Beside, all the powers are dangerous, so it
really does not matter who has what country.
I hope that I can count on you to keep our border
neutral. If you keep it that way, you will have two
benefits. The first is that you can count on neutrality
from me for a very long time. I have many other things
to do before I would start thinking about the
Mediterranean. Second, if your are threatened, and I
have the ability, I will glad send help, solely at your
request. As I have stated before. I want a viable Italy
to remain as my best defense to the south for a long,
long time. I hope to remain your best defense to the
west for just as long.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
>Is there a pattern here? Edna for England; Felicia for
France;
>R----- for Russia; etc?
I have no doubt that you are correct. I was thinking the
same thing about the name Felicia. I give the Austrian
credit for trying this. I often contemplated such a
plan. But it seemed like more trouble than it was worth.
We shall see how long before I get a message from Edna.
Although Felicia may tell her how cute I am and she may
write me on purpose ;-)
>I tell myself to be patient and give the German a fair
hearing,
>but he does not give me enough to develop any confidence
in
>him at all. I am ready to move and it is only Monday.
I understand what you are saying. I am sure that we will
both continue to talk with him through Spring of 1902.
But I expect that it will not change my initial
preference for you. I hope that the same will be true
for you. I do appreciate your honesty about the
situation. No need to tell each other lies that we will
not believe, and do not expect each other to believe.
>By the way, do you have things squared away with Italy?
>Are you comfortable in that quarter?
Well I was at first comfortable. But now he is making
noise about moving to Piedmont. He claims that everyone
else wants him to do so. Perhaps he just likes jerking
my chain. We shall see what comes of it. Anything that
you can do to persuade him to stick to the Southeast
would be great. After all, we want to try to establish
an IA vs. RT battle. This usually bogs down and gives us
time to settle our little end of the world. If Italy
comes after France, then ART can settle themselves too
soon. Similarly, we do not really want Russia to come
North and ignore the South.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Austria
Felicia:
>France was singularly unsuccessful in the semifinals,
>apparently because the other powers assumed that the
>top seeds chose it first, and thus, France's geographic
>advantages were accompanied by a dangerously skilled
>player. If that thinking carries over here, then you'll
need
>all the luck I can wish you.
I appreciate the sentiment. Thank you!
I have two things to say:
1) How do you know that France did poorly in all the
games? Did I miss out on some information?
2) The players who did the best in Round 2 may not have
been the best players from Round 1. Therefore, the most
dangerous players may be in other countries. Also, it is
entirely possible that the top seeds chose less likely
powers, just to put someone else as the threat in the
early going. It is very difficult to know. Beside, all
the powers are dangerous, so it really does not matter
who has what country. So is France or Turkey truly the
most dangerous?
What luck have you been having with Italy? Have you two
come to an agreement that you can believe in? It is
always so hard to know in 1901. But often you get a feel
for things.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali Baba:
I have not heard from you lately. I trust that you were
not insulted by my teasing that your diplomats had to
stay on Corsica. They are welcome in Paris at any time.
In fact, we will not even count the towels in their
hotel rooms. We will just trust them.
Are you running into the same phenomena that I am. The
top seeds from Round 2 must have chosen France and
Turkey, therefore they are the most dangerous. We should
eliminate them. I have not heard these exact words, but
close enough to read between the lines. Too bad we
cannot band together; we are too far apart. But perhaps
we can share ideas on how to get through the early going
and put this danger behind us. Once the game gets to
1903, everyone will have forgotten about this issue. But
for now it is alive and dangerous.
I have tried to point out that all the players are
dangerous and that the top seeds may have taken other
powers to hide themselves. Any other ideas?
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to all
>I am sure that my good friends Prince Boar and/or
>Freddy will issue the necessary visas upon request
I would gladly issue Visas for the winner to travel to
Belgium. Simply pass through Munich and Ruhr and
everything will be just fine.
> Go Team O.N.C.E!
>Doug
That's the spirit!
-- Prince Boar
Message from Germany to Italy
Perish the thought. I'm taking 74 of my best friends on a weekend
getaway this weekend. I'm literally swamped myself. That's what you
get when you're the President of a social club.
Fred
> Message from Italy to Germany in 'titleist':
>
> I owe you a message but it has been a hectic day at work today. I hope to
> be able to send something out tomorrow. Didn't want you thinking I was
> ignoring you.
>
> Roberto
Message from Russia to all
> Rabobank rider Marc Wauters took the victory in Stage 2
> of the 2001 Tour de France today. This gives 10 points
> to Russia and puts Wauters in the Yellow Jersey. Can he
> hold on for the Tour de France victory? Time will tell.
Marc, Marc, he's our man, if he can't do it, well then
Lance can! (The United States Postal Service is unionized,
after all.)
V. I. Lenin,
European Union Steward for Russia.
Message from Austria to France
> 1) How do you know that France did poorly in all the
> games? Did I miss out on some information?
Good catch. No, I don't "know" it; but I do believe what I said is
accurate. On the one hand, since you and I probably (though not
necessarily) came from different semifinal games, we could learn more by
discussing this further. On the other hand, I suspect doing so would
annoy Doug, even if neither of us actually violate the EPHR injunction
against making a claim as to our real identities. On the gripping hand,
I could be a solo-winner France from one of the semis and just inventing
all the foregoing for diplomatic reasons.
And if it's true that the Frances did poorly in the semifinal rounds,
then it is not unlikely that the soloists from the semis might take that
into consideration in setting their final-round preferences.
Felicia
Message from Russia to France
> England is difficult to eliminate, especially
> once she gets too large. But any country
> can be eliminated in the medium range
Yes, but England and Turkey are especially difficult to eliminate,
indeed probably the most difficult to eliminate, if it's not done early.
(The fact that I'm sandwiched between them may influence my opinion,
slightly...8-)
> keep me apprised on how you see things.
Germany seems to be playing (or at least, negotiating) cautiously.
This, along with England's corner position, makes me view England as the
bigger threat, at the moment. Would you care to share your appraisal of the
Eastern Powers?
Cordially,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicholas:
I understand your point. England is a difficult bird to
crack once she gets too big. And perhaps he is the
greater danger. I will certainly keep that in mind as
things progress. You opinion may change as you see what
Germany does about Denmark in the Fall. Let's continue
to keep an open dialogue, hoping to avoid making the
opposite choice and cause problems for ourselves.
My assessment of the Eastern powers? Well, Italy is
trying to be flaking, but I suspect that he is competent
and has friends in Sicily that will cut your throat if
you so much as look away. Other than that he seems like
a nice guy. I have heard essentially nothing from
Turkey, so I do not know about him. Austria may be the
easiest prey, but I do not know if you would then prefer
to keep him around and focus on the dangerous ones. Do
you want to go for the corners at both ends of the world
and weed out your long term threats? The only thing that
I do know is that Italy and Austria seem to be getting
along OK.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
I believe that I saw a relative of yours on TV. His name
was Trey Wingo and he is a Sports Announcer on ESPN
Sports Center. I never really payed attention to his
name before, until I met you. See how you are broadening
my horizons. For that I thank you.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Emperor Frederick:
Have you had time to further ponder our opening moves? I
have my default moves in for our bounce in Burgundy. But
I definitely do not want to move to Burgundy, if you are
not ordering Munich there.
We should also being to talk about longer term plans. I
thank you for indulging me in discussions about alliances
and such. But it is obvious that there will be no
Western Triple Alliance. Therefore two of us will team
up on the third. I certainly want to avoid being the
third. I image that you feel the same way.
Based on our discussions on alliances, you must suspect
that I wish to convince you that England is a more
dangerous choice for you than France. France has a lot
to offer you. After England, we have different avenues
of expansions on opposite sides of the board (you Russia,
me Italy). France is also loyal and willing to strive to
avoid the pitfalls where one of us feels we must stab the
other. We have enough centers between us that we can
trade them back and forth to keep our alliance even,
hence not have one get nervous about the other.
I will also always discussion any options and strive to
make sure that we are both comfortable with alliance and
our security. I will not ignore your questions,
especially when they are difficult ones.
Finally, I will provide to you the bike from the winner
of the Tour de France, autographed by the ride himself!
Let's at least talk about the possibilities and not just
assume that the other knows we are interest.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Master to Austria and France
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>On the other hand, I suspect doing so would annoy Doug, even if
>neither of us actually violate the EPHR injunction against making a
>claim as to our real identities.
This is correct. Let's not talk about the second round games, okay?
Just play this one.
Doug
Message from England to France
Good Prince Boar,
> >>By the way, do you have things squared away with Italy?
>>Are you comfortable in that quarter?
>Well I was at first comfortable. But now he is making
>noise about moving to Piedmont. He claims that everyone
>else wants him to do so.
Very interesting. Two easterners have suggested that I target France as an
enemy, but no one other than yourself thinks I should go after Germany. I
think I know what is going on here. Your press, public and private, has
identified you as a very likeable person. You are someone who is fun to
play Diplomacy with. The experienced, sophisticated players of this game
recognize that those characteristics mark a dangerous player. So, as much
as they like and admire the man behind the French persona, they think it
best to get rid of him. Make sense?
Thinking out loud now: perhaps in a game like this it is best to restrict
one's charms to one or two neighbors while lying low in broadcasts and
letters sent to distant realms.
>I believe that I saw a relative of yours on TV. His name
>was Trey Wingo and he is a Sports Announcer on ESPN
>Sports Center.
Yes! I saw him for the first time this week in some sort of ESPN promo.
Has to be a relative.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>Thinking out loud now: perhaps in a game like this i
>is best to restrict one's charms to one or two
>neighbors while lying low in broadcasts and
>letters sent to distant realms.
An interesting philosophy. If I was smart I would adhere
to it. But I value my enjoyment too much. Hence I
intend to have fun, despite the consequences. I will
also choose a long term ally based as much on enjoyment
as strategic reasons. A flaw, but an acceptable one in
my opinion.
As for my charms being the reason that others suggest
that you attack me. That is nice of you to say. I have
received a similar letter about you, being more dangerous
that Germany based on your style. However, in my case I
think that it may also do something with my being France.
France is a popular choice. Hence the player choosing
France must have done well in Round 2. Hence he is
dangerous, so let's get rid of him. For one thing, the
best players may have hid themselves in other countries
to avoid this phenomena. Secondly, we are all dangerous
players. I think that you and I need to stick together
to deal with this they are dangerous so let's get 'em
phenomena.
-- Prince Boar
Message [from France] to all
BG> Holey Negotiations Diploman, things seem to heating up, but so far the
negotiations have been slow.
DM> Yes, Boy Gambit, things have been a bit slow.
BG> But one guy rambles on about unions, another goes on and on about a bike
race, and a third says nothing but blahs. Don't they know there is a game of
Diplomacy going on?
DM> Well, relationships take time to build. Besides, some people insist on
taking all the time allotted.
BG> Well, myself and the other observers are falling asleep here. I wish that
they would just get on with it.
DM> Be patient Boy Gambit. You know that we must be ever vigilant to seek out
the betrayer, the liar, the stabber and bring them to justice. That is our
role.
BG>ZZZZZZZzzzzz
Message from Russia to France
>I understand your point. England is a difficult bird to crack once she
>gets too big. And perhaps he is the
>greater danger.
Rest assured, I'm not trying to imply that you
HAVE to attack England for us to cooperate, or even
that I feel you SHOULD attack Ivy. You asked a
hypothetical question regarding my preference
regarding your first target, and I've attempted to
lay out the reasons why I feel it makes more sense
for you to attack England first. That is all.
>Do you want to go for the corners at both ends?
If we could accomplish this, it would make meeting
in the middle a much more straight-forward process. :-)
Nick.
Message from Turkey to all
My fellow conspirators,
I have been having ISP problems that have prevented me from replying to
press, and in some cases prevented me from receiving them. I am using
alternate methods to get this message through. The scoundrels that formerly
provided these so-called "services" have been executed and replaced, and our
communications centre will be in full operating status by this evening. If
you have sent anything to me in the last few days, please re-send.
Apologies for this untimely inconvenience.
Ali Baba
Message from Italy to Turkey
Just in case you didn't get this the first time. My apologies for not
removing the '>'.
>
> You gave me a lot to think about over the weekend.
>
> >
> > yes IT can and has been done. I have seen (and participated
> > in) such alliances before, and they can work out quite well.
> >
>
> I think the problem is, so many games we witness are with,
> quite frankly,
> less experienced players. Turkey has only 3 routes to expand
> and two of
> those come into direct conflict with Italy. Italy has up to
> 4 routes of
> expansion but 2 of those come into conflict with Turkey so I
> think it just
> the odds are quite high either Italy or Turkey will choose 1
> of the routes
> that causes conflict.
>
> > The usual problem is one of naval dominance;
> > we cannot be effective together if we engage in useless
> > struggles for control of the seas.
>
> This does get to the crux of the problem. Before continuing,
> let me just
> say that I cannot forsee a situation that I would willingly
> give up control
> of the Ionean Sea. Similarly, I doubt you would willingly
> give up control
> of the Aegean or Eastern Med. I think as long as we understand these
> issues, then the debate over the placement of our fleets becomes more
> constructive. We both need fleets for defensive purposes but
> we also need
> them for offensive possibilities as well.
>
> > My experience is that to make it work, Turkey
> > must embark on the course of a land-based power.
>
> I am glad to hear this. Nothing would make me happier than
> to see Turkey
> become a land-based power.
>
> > After all, even a land-based Turkey must have some naval
> resources for
> > defensive purposes, and *any* Turkish fleet builds can
> sometimes make
> > Italian admirals nervous.
>
> Reading between the lines, I assume your first build will
> probably, emphasis
> on probably, be a fleet. I completely understand.
>
> > Another matter to be resolved would be who should
> > be the short-term and long-term owner of Greece (and they need not
> > necessarily be the same power).
> >
>
> I don't have an answer to that question just yet. Will
> probably depend on
> the board dynamics. I can imagine though that unit should be an army
> regardless of owner.
>
> >
> > Most importantly, though, I think it's a mistake to say
> > "this-power and that-power are always enemies, they can
> > never get along."
>
> I completely agree and I hope I didn't make it seem like I thought we
> couldn't be allies. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
> But, just
> from our short conversation, it seems obvious that it's not a natural
> occurance for Turkey to become an immediate land-based power
> for a couple of
> reasons, 1) you need fleets for defensive purposes and 2)
> there are just not
> a whole lot of easy, immediate centers for you to gain. Thus, the IT
> alliance will take communication, cooperation, and a lot of
> patience. The
> rewards, as you point out though, can be quite profitable.
>
> Roberto
>
> End of message.
>
Message from England to Turkey
Sent earlier:
Here is some information that may be of use to you, and passing it on does
me no harm. Who knows, perhaps you can return the favor some day.
Simply this: Roberto the Italian and I have exchanged some initial
observations, and he appears favorably impressed with your opening
correspondence with him. Hence, I think you may be able to persuade him to
become an ally or at least remain neutral with respect to Turkey. I have
read that the Lepanto is falling out of favor, and it may be that Italians
these days are more predisposed to consider Turkey as a possible friend.
Anyway, I know that you dare not have more than one enemy among Russia,
Austria, and Italy, so that Italian good will may be good news indeed.
Broadcast earlier:
To: diplomats far and wide.
From: Ivy Wingo
The identify Ivy Wingo contest is over. Amazingly, the winner prefers to
remain anonymous! Since I don't yet want to antagonize any of our good
fellows, I must respect this shy man's request. However, if he ever
performs a dasterdly deed I shall expose him without remorse.
Ivy Wingo was a catcher for the St. Louis Cardinals and Cincinnati Reds. I
chose the name only because I was fond of its wacky sound. It was tempting
to go with the even wackier Van Lingle Mungo, but that player has already
been celebrated in song.
Now for the prize. The prize is Belgium. The winner, although
unidentified, is free to travel to Belgium to make his claim. He may wish
travel afloat, but a land route would be quicker. I am sure that my good
friends Prince Boar and/or Freddy will issue the necessary visas upon request.
What's this I hear? I can't believe my ears. "We don't need no stinkin'
visas!"
Well, what ever happened to civility? And I thought I was playing with
gentlemen. It is indeed best that this rogue not be known by name. But
beware the snake who crawls into Belgium.
Good luck,
Ivy Wingo
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> Just in case you didn't get this the first time. My apologies for not
> removing the '>'.
Thanks, I hadn't seen this. No apology needed of course!
> > I think the problem is, so many games we witness are with,
> > quite frankly,
> > less experienced players.
This may be... but on the other hand, part of my experience stems from a
very successful game I once had as Italy, with a strong Turkish ally. He
and I hit it off, and this was early enough in my career that I didn't
"know" that Italy and Turkey are supposed to be enemies. The game ended in
an EIT draw.
> > Turkey has only 3 routes to expand
> > and two of
> > those come into direct conflict with Italy. Italy has up to
> > 4 routes of
> > expansion but 2 of those come into conflict with Turkey so I
> > think it just
> > the odds are quite high either Italy or Turkey will choose 1
> > of the routes
> > that causes conflict.
That can be said of any two neighbors on the board. I assume that by 3
avenues for Turkish expansion, you mean through Italy, through Austria, or
through Russia. As I see it, it need not (and likely will not) be
all-or-nothing. In an IT alliance, I envision a sharing of Austrian
resources, rather than either of us controlling Austria entirely.
> > This does get to the crux of the problem. Before continuing,
> > let me just
> > say that I cannot forsee a situation that I would willingly
> > give up control
> > of the Ionean Sea. Similarly, I doubt you would willingly
> > give up control
> > of the Aegean or Eastern Med.
Depends on how you define "control". If you mean, Turkey never tries to get
a fleet into Ion, then I agree. If you mean, Italy must station a fleet
permanently in Ion, then I disagree, at least long-term. Appropriate
demilitarization is part of any alliance, and I would really foresee Italian
fleets in the Adriatic and pressing France and Iberia. Meanwhile, my
primary fleet requirement would be a permanent station in the Black Sea and
perhaps one to defend the eastern Med; but in any case, not in any position
to threaten Italian holdings.
> > I think as long as we understand these
> > issues, then the debate over the placement of our fleets becomes more
> > constructive. We both need fleets for defensive purposes but
> > we also need
> > them for offensive possibilities as well.
See, that's just my point. As soon as you take it for granted that Turkey
needs fleets for "offensive purposes", we run into trouble; such fleets
could only be used against Italy.
> > I am glad to hear this. Nothing would make me happier than
> > to see Turkey
> > become a land-based power.
Heh heh I don't doubt it. Likewise, nothing would make me happier than to
have such good relations with Italy that I've got the freedom to embark on
such a course. Too many Italians force my hand with Leponto openings,
driving me into Russian arms whether I like it or not.
> > > After all, even a land-based Turkey must have some naval
> > resources for
> > > defensive purposes, and *any* Turkish fleet builds can
> > sometimes make
> > > Italian admirals nervous.
> >
> > Reading between the lines, I assume your first build will
> > probably, emphasis
> > on probably, be a fleet. I completely understand.
I think you've read more than was there, but my first reaction is that I'm
glad you read between the lines, and I'm glad you brought it up. Forming
and maintaining a good alliance requires that we each clearly ascertain what
the other is thinking, and that we both feel free to voice our concerns.
In any case, I have not even given any thought to what my first build might
be, nor will I do so until the fall movement has shaken out. But I've
sometimes been approached by Italians with "I'll be your ally if you promise
not to build any fleets", which I don't feel is a reasonable demand.
> > > Another matter to be resolved would be who should
> > > be the short-term and long-term owner of Greece (and they need not
> > > necessarily be the same power).
> > >
> >
> > I don't have an answer to that question just yet. Will
> > probably depend on
> > the board dynamics. I can imagine though that unit should be an army
> > regardless of owner.
Agreed. One tactic is to get Turkish armies in Gre and Bul, then have Italy
move into Greece as Bul supports Gre-Ser.
This brings to mind another aspect that I forgot to mention, but that I feel
is important. I am firmly committed to the principles of mutual growth and
size. Italy and Turkey are powers that often build only one in the first
year. It will be crucial for us to grow in such a way that neither of us
outpaces the other, and we will have to coordinate our growth as carefully
as we coordinate our efforts on the battlefield.
> > > Most importantly, though, I think it's a mistake to say
> > > "this-power and that-power are always enemies, they can
> > > never get along."
> >
> > I completely agree and I hope I didn't make it seem like I thought we
> > couldn't be allies. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Glad to hear it. =)
> > But, just
> > from our short conversation, it seems obvious that it's not a natural
> > occurance for Turkey to become an immediate land-based power
> > for a couple of
> > reasons, 1) you need fleets for defensive purposes and 2)
> > there are just not
> > a whole lot of easy, immediate centers for you to gain. Thus, the IT
> > alliance will take communication, cooperation, and a lot of
> > patience. The
> > rewards, as you point out though, can be quite profitable.
I agree with the last two sentences. However, as for point (1), this can be
controlled and need not be immediate. And as for point (2), it's true that
Turkey doesn't have any immediate easy centres; but by the same token, that
fact remains whether I'm anti-Italian or not, so I don't see it as a factor.
Once IT can get established, I think we've got good prospects. Between us
lies the Balkan region, with enough SCs for both of us. Combined IT efforts
can be very effective in the Balkans, and gains there can easily fuel
expeditions into Austria, Russia and France.
My goals for the immediate future are simple. I want to open to a flexible,
defensive position and see how the first year shakes out. I make no secret
of the fact that I'll be looking for a strong ally among my neighbors. Our
discussions have had the greatest promise so far, and I very much look
forward to continuing our discussions.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the delay in my response; I've had
trouble with my communications apparatus. Anyway, down to business.
> The Slingshot certainly has advantages, but would
> almost certainly be recognized at this level as an
> attempt to conceal the Juggernaut. This, of course,
> begs the question of how Powers at this level would
> react to a Juggernaut. What do you think?
That was the main reason I asked whether you'd be open to an overt RT
alliance. I expect that the Slingshot would be recognized right away. The
main thing I like about it is that it effectively deals with the issue of
your southern fleet, which can often be a thorn in the side of RT relations
down the road, and it gives you another army, thereby greatly improving your
position in the center.
> Another
> possibility would be to combine a Turkish Hedgehog
> (Con-Bul, Smy-Arm, Ank-Con), with the Turkish Attack
> variant of the Southern System (Sev-Bla, Mos-Sev,
> StP-Bot, War-Ukr/Gal), and then Convoy Arm to Bul or
> Rum in 1902. This would probably be the only way to
> hide the Juggernaut.
That could work. Offhand my concern would be that I'd need to defend both
home centers this fall, meaning my fleet couldn't get out to Aeg, which is
one of the compelling arguments in favor of Ank-Con. Also I think a Turkish
landing in Rum would only be temporary, as Rum must clearly be a Russian
centre in the long term.
> I'm not sure. Conventional wisdom says that Ank-Con,
> Sev C Smy-Vie in S'01 will result in AI & a Western
> Triple all headed East, but the conventional wisdom
> also says that the Juggernaut is much better for
> Russia than it is for Turkey, and that's just not the
> case as long as Russia builds in the North instead of
> the South.
Hm, I don't think I'm following you here. A western triple would imply F/I
conflict, which would be welcome. Indeed, I think if an EF alliance were to
form, they would likely welcome an RT, since Germany, Austria and Italy
would be quickly crushed between hammer and anvil.
I don't agree that RT favors Russia over Turkey, at least as long as the
southern fleet question can be resolved. In my experience, once that's done
we've both got good avenues for growth as well as good mutual security. I
also think that Russia benefits from not having to choose between North and
South, but instead focuses on opposing Austria and Germany for the center.
Of course, I defer to your greater judgement on how Russian interests can
best be served.
> If we play into the conventional wisdom,
> though, and you tell everyone that once Austria's
> gone, you intend to stab me, the West will probably
> let us roll over Austria. Please let me know what you
> think.
My sense is that conventional wisdom is of limited use. For one thing, some
of my best successes have come from bucking "conventional wisdom". For
another, I expect that we've got an exceptional group of players here, and
conventional wisdom may not even apply. From what I've seen, I'm not the
only one looking for a unique or unexpected approach.
I again apologize for my untimely (yet unavoidable) silence. I'm eager to
get our conversation going in full force, so that we can open without any
misunderstandings. It seems at present that neither of us is comfortable
with the other controlling the Black in the opening move. I will consider
your proposal in greater depth when I am able, but off the bat it makes me a
bit uncomfortable. If we cannot come to some such agreement, do you favor a
bounce in Bla or DMZ there?
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
Sorry, I realized I didn't quite answer your question here:
> If we play into the conventional wisdom,
> though, and you tell everyone that once Austria's
> gone, you intend to stab me, the West will probably
> let us roll over Austria. Please let me know what you
> think.
I agree this is a promising approach. Particularly, if we can arrange ITR
cooperation against Austria, then I might convince Italy I'll attack you
next. If some conflict erupts in the Western triangle, as seems likely,
then you're right that Austria would probably receive little help.
My concern then, of course, might be an IR effort to eliminate Turkey.
However, I'm confident that by that time I'll have convinced you that I'm
the more worthy ally.
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Austria
My dearest Tamara,
Many thanks for your reply. Now that my communication apparatus has been
restored, I'm eager to continue our dialogue.
> In my readings, I've learned that some Turkish leaders feels they have
> no good alternative to an alliance with Russia. Your predecessor may
> have felt that way, but as you've clearly taken a new direction, I hope
> that you can see how well an alliance between Turkey and Austria-Hungary
> can work.
Indeed, Turkey has many viable alternatives to alliance with Russia. In many
ways, alliance with Austria is preferable, since it removes the difficulty
of Russia's southern fleet. Likewise, AT cooperation against Italy is
advantagous for Austria, since it resolves the Ven/Tri issue. So you needn't
convince me that together we could work very effectively.
> Essentially, if we work together, Russia can be easily dispatched.
> After that, Turkey has an easy naval path of expansion, while Austria
> keeps to land. As Turkey need build only fleets, and Austria only
> armies, they have some assurance against stabs. The Italian centers
> and/or the centers along the Black Sea coast can be passed back and
> forth to maintain strategic balance, making fearful stabs unnecessary.
>
> Does any of this make sense to you?
Absolutely. The only concern I see is that Italy won't stand idly by while
you and I dismantle Russia, and he's surely not going to be happy to see me
build fleets. I suspect that AT collusion would likely have to be carried
out against Russia and Italy simultaneously, or very nearly so. Not that I
don't think we could prevail in such a scenario, of course.
Of crucial importance to any anti-Italian naval effort is the province of
Greece. I understand that Greece is naturally an early Austrian conquest. I
hope, though, that you can appreciate its vital strategic importance when
considering naval attacks into the Ionian. Might you agree to Turkish
control of Greece in '02 or '03 in exchange for support into Rumania? Any
thoughts at all concerning this matter?
In any case, we have much to discuss. I look forward to hearing from you at
your earliest convenience.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Thanks for your press, and thanks for the information you sent. Sorry it's
taken me so long to reply, but I'm confident that my communication
difficulties have been resolved.
Indeed, England and Turkey form a special relationship. I can genuinely say
I'd be happy to see successful English advances, and I hope you feel the
same way. Naturally, Russia is a likely topic of conversation, but in the
long term I think we'll each be better off if we're both doing well.
As for Russia, I've not yet had any indication of how he intends to open.
Negotiations are ongoing regarding the Black Sea, but the issue is as yet
unresolved. As you know, I've had some favorable correspondence with Italy;
nothing yet from Austria but the usual warm & fuzzies.
How are things going in the north? I've had little word from France, except
for is request that I not try to send Italy his way. Why he suspects I
might do such a dastardly thing, I've no idea. As you might imagine, our
strategists are dying for word of the Western Triangle.
Anyway, thanks again for your good news. I look forward to what I hope will
be a long and mutually rewarding relationship between us.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
Many thanks for your letters of introduction. I truly regret that the
failure of my communication apparatus cause me to miss out on your kind
invitation to Corsica. I trust that your metal detectors have been put to
some other good use. In any case, I assure you I would never have brought
anything that would have set off a metal detector.
Unfortunately, my technical difficulties have apparently disrupted my spy
network. Not a single one reported any of the "top seed" rumors you
expressed. Whatever would make anyone think such a thing? In any case, I
must say that I approve of your conclusions: that we should simply eliminate
them. I like the way you think; and I'd love to hear more about any such
plan.
I assure you I have done nothing to encourage Italy to open anti-French. I
hope and trust that likewise you have not been pointing him my way. I agree
that an Italian focus against Austria might work to our mutual advantage,
but how to accomplish it? Austria has encouraged me to build fleets and go
after Italy, but if I leak such a thing, what's to convince Italy that it's
true? Such a blatant move could easily backfire.
I have so far not received much beyond the usual warm & fuzzies from my
neighbors, and many of my negotiations remain unresolved. I'll be glad to
keep you posted as things evolve, and I hope you might slip me some word of
activity in the Western Triangle.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Germany
My dearest Frederick,
Sorry to hear of your unseasonable weather in the Reichland. It has been no
less unbearable down here, made more unpleasant by my technical
difficulties, which have disrupted not only my communications but the air
conditioning as well. Our technicians are blaming the whole mess on
inferior Russian workmanship.
I, too, look forward to many interesting and enlightening conversations as
we go forward. As you say, Russia is a likely topic of conversation. As
yet, he has given me no real indication of his intentions. Austria, for his
part, proposed immediate anti-Russian efforts, but the issue of what Italy
will do while this goes on is unresolved.
I am attempting to open fairly neutrally, and not really commit until the
first year shakes out. At this point I can honestly say I have not yet
chosen a particular ally over the others. This may change if ongoing
diplomacy develops strongly, of course, but essentially I'm not eager to
commit in move one. Of course, if England were to be involved in an
anti-Russian action, I'd be eager to learn of it. What can you tell me of
the English?
Other than that, I have little to report. However, I agree with your
premise that it's good to make friends with the folks just the other side of
your immediate neighbors. If you and I both survive the initial shake-out,
we would both be well-served by having a good working relationship. I look
forward to hearing your thoughts.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Observer to Observer
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., povisils@y... wrote:
> All right, let's make this interesting and try to figure out who's
> playing what country. Based upon the exchanges of the players thus
> far, here's what I've come up with. With all of us working
together,
> we should be able to figure this out.
I'll add in some of my thoughts, someone could add a number of
"polls" so people can "vote" without writing comments, that
will help us figure out how close we are.....
>
> Austria, Turkey and Germany: we have not heard much public press
> from these countries, so I'm guessing that Randy and Ken have to be
> playing two of the three powers (given their proclivity for
> nopress). If my other guesses are correct, by process of
> elimination, Rich has to be playing the third of these countries.
>
I think that sounds right on, just about how I would figure it.
It will be nearly impossible for us to actually figure out who
is who here, though.
> England, France and Italy: Allen, Roger and Jeff, because all are
> friendly verbose Dippers who tend toward humor at times. I'd place
> Jeff as Italy.
>
I agree, and Allen (Ivy Wingo) is almost definitely England.
I am more convinced of that now than my initial "probabilities"
indicated. Again, here, by process of elimination we have
Roger as France, which also makes sense with the "Tour de France"
press.
> Russia: Eric, based upon his initial and somewhat long-winded
public
> press. Don't read into this that I don't think Eric is an
excellent
> player, because I definitely know he is. But I also think he is
the
> Russian.
>
> Let's put our heads together and fill this in.
>
> IF I'm correct in my guesses, then Allen or Roger (France or
England)
Allen....
> could be in serious trouble. With Germany (as far as we can tell)
> lying low in comparison to E and F, it's very possible that E AND F
> will each attempt to court G to gang up on the other. Normally I'd
> say Allen and Roger might side with each other, but given the
stakes,
> each will probably seek to eliminate the other. Their diplomatic
> style is too similar (in my limited experience with both of them)
for
> them to ally in this particular game.
>
> The reason I predicted that France will be the odd man out (in an
> earlier post) is that the person who is playing France in the final
> is probably one of the top finishers in the second round (since the
> conventional wisdom is that France is a desirable country to play,
> and the top finishers of the 2nd round had first pick of countries
in
> titleist), therefore the English and German players might seek to
> eliminate the perceived greater threat of France.
>
Ah, so actually we have EVEN more information, since some of the
people on this list (not me) were in the Second Round.... we
already know you were, since you said you were. Do you have
any idea who won your game among the players here???
> The east is much harder to predict because we haven't heard too
much
> from that side. I have a feeling that England and/or France is
> probably courting Jeff (Italy, if I'm correct in my guess), and
Jeff
> will try to form an alliance with Eric (if he is in fact playing
> Russia) and one of either Austria or Turkey. In my limited
> experience Jeff is an alliance player and responds to press, so if
> Ken or Randy is playing A or T, Jeff will go for whichever one
sends
> the better press. Then again, it's not likely that Ken or Randy
> would sit around and let Italy choose the alliance structure.
> However, if Italy and Russia form a tight bond, it's possible they
> could get the upper hand on Austria and/or Turkey, even if they
were
> quick to spot the danger emanating from IR.
>
> Another possibility, if EG ally, is that Jeff could be tempted into
a
> joint attack on France. If Randy and Ken are playing AT, he'll do
so
> at his peril I'd imagine. For some reason I do not think it's
> possible that Russia (Eric) will open in the north. He'll probably
> seek to secure his western flank through diplomacy while focusing
the
> the southeast.
>
> Obviously we'll have something of a clue once the spring moves are
> adjudicated.
>
> One other thing: what does anyone think of England's public offer
of
> Belgium? Is he signalling flexibility on the Belgium question in
an
> attempt to attract a better alliance offer from F or G, or is it a
> sign of desperation in that perhaps he has not yet received a
> credible offer from F or G is trying to prevent an FG?
>
> Karlis
I think it is a bit early to be very confident about alliances
forming, though I read all of this with interest. It looks
VERY insightful!!
Everybody vote for Karlis in the hobby poll:
http://devel.diplom.org/DipPouch/Postal/Zines/TAP/BALLOT01.html
Actually, vote for whomever you like, but PLEASE vote!!!
Thanks,
Jim-Bob
Message from France to all
Tour de France Stage 3 Results:
Erik Zabel (Telekom) proved again
why he's been the winner of the
Tour's green jersey for best
sprinter five times as he blew
through an uphill sprint at the end
of today's stage Seen at
the front of the race in the late
going were defending Tour champ
Lance Armstrong (USPS), and
hopefuls Jan Ullrich (Telekom) and
Christophe Moreau.
I thought that the TdF was a long haul race and not one
for sprinters. But it looks like a sprinter is stealing
the show for now. Can Zabel avoid the early leader
syndrom and not have all the other powers conspiring to
beat him down! Emperor Frederick best watch out. This
may work against him :-)
This gives 10 more points to Germany and likely sets him
up for 20 more points for the Green Jersey.
Official Tally:
Austria (Domo-Farm Frites): 0 points
England (USPS): 0 points
France (Festina): 10 points
Germany (Telekom): 20 points
Italy (Fassa Bortolo): 0 points
Russia (Robobank): 10 points
Turkey (CSC): 0 points
Doug (O.N.C.E.): 0 points
Selected Standings:
1. Stuart O'Grady (C.A.)14-hours 15-minutes 44-seconds
2. Christophe Moreau (FES) @ :17-seconds
5. Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (ONC) @ :20
7. Lance Armstrong (USP) @ :21
8. Erik Zabel (TEL) @ :23
9. Jan Ullrich (TEL) @ :24
10. Florent Brard (FES) @ :24
12. Joseba Beloki (ONC) @ :30
-- Prince Boar
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Absolutely. The only concern I see is that Italy won't stand idly by
> while you and I dismantle Russia, and he's surely not going to be
> happy to see me build fleets. I suspect that AT collusion would likely
> have to be carried out against Russia and Italy simultaneously, or
> very nearly so. Not that I don't think we could prevail in such a
> scenario, of course.
I also think that AT can beat IR, in part because of AT's relatively
interior lines. IR's recourse will be to concentrate their attacks on
just one of the other two, in hopes that that one will accept a
different arrangement than a continued AT. I suspect that
Austria-Hungary would be chosen for that target; I also believe that an
Austria between an allied IR will be living on borrowed time only,
whatever promises might have been made.
With proper Diplomacy, however, the situation shouldn't degenerate into
AT vs IR so quickly. Italy rarely starts by attacking Austria. If he
starts by attacking Turkey, he will initially be happy to see RT at war.
And if he starts by heading west, we can certainly avoid discouraging
that; while R will beg Italy to return and attack Austria-Hungary, if he
is making progress against France, it would cost him several turns to
redeploy eastwards, by which time it should be too late.
> Of crucial importance to any anti-Italian naval effort is the province
> of Greece. I understand that Greece is naturally an early Austrian
> conquest. I hope, though, that you can appreciate its vital strategic
> importance when considering naval attacks into the Ionian. Might you
> agree to Turkish control of Greece in '02 or '03 in exchange for
> support into Rumania? Any thoughts at all concerning this matter?
Greece is best occupied by a fleet, certainly. In the long term, that
makes it most comfortably a Turkish holding. In the short term, as in
1901, I would prefer to occupy it myself in order to build two armies.
In the medium term, tactical considerations will probably govern; but if
Turkey is carrying the brunt of a naval assault into the Med, while
Austria-Hungary is attacking Russia's inland centers, then it is likely
that Greece will be more useful in Turkish hands.
Tamara, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from France to Germany
Emperor Frederick:
I was hoping for 38 Km, a step down from your 38 mi, but
quite a distance for me. My route only took me 28.5 Km.
It was long enough, my family was organizing a search
party to go look for me. I did not go as fast as I
liked, but had enough for a couple sprints at the end.
It is always good to zoom past the neighbors, it makes
them think that you are better than you are. :-)
I guess that you are out biking as I have not heard from
you. Enjoy yourself. Hmm, I hope that you are not too
shocked by my message to write, or perhaps you are
spending all your time negotiating my demise with
England. Must...Control...The...Paranoia! :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali Baba:
>In any case, I assure you I would never have brought
>anything that would have set off a metal detector.
Well, the German officials helmets, you know the ones
with the spikey points on them, set off the alarms. Even
after they rooms the caps, the plates in their ends still
set off the darn things. Sigh, technology brings more
problems than it is worth some times.
I am glad that you have not been running into the "top
seed dangerous issue". Perhaps it is only France that
gets it. Or maybe, you have just not snuffed it out.
Beware! :-0 OK, maybe I am just more paranoid than you.
But I did like your interpretation of my statements.
Let's just wipe them out. It was not exactly what I
meant, but I like it just the same. The only problem is
that you are over there, and I am over here. Perhaps it
is a good long term goal however.
It is interesting that Austria wants you to send your
fleets towards Italy. Perhaps that means that Italy is
headed my way, at least Austria thinks so. Well, I am
all for you moving fleets out into the open waters. It
will get Italy's attention at least. Perhaps it is a
good idea to be on Russia's good side?
I am not trying to sick Italy on you. I am merely trying
to negotiate neutrality. I really do not care if he
attacks Austria or you. Although it would hamper our
long term goal of a FT two-way if he attacked you. I
trust that you can effectively manipulate the situation
in your favor.
Finally, what is happening the west? Well, everyone is
being real coy and cautious. I do not expect anything
dramatic to happen early. I think that people are
nervous about the competition and do not want to make a
stupide mistake, like attacking Russia when he was siding
with you, but Austria attack you. Simply substitute
England, Germany, and France for Austria, Turkey, and
Russia (in any arrangement) and you get the same thing.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
Is everything OK with you and Austria? I have nothing
definate, but based on bits and pieces, it does not seem
like there is that tight Austrian-Italian alliance that
is so often necessary. I would not want to see you
focussed west while Turkish fleets or Austrian armies
walk in your back door.
OH by the way, I consulted the Royal Chef. He says that
the dish Alpine Chicken is out-dated these days. People
much prefer Roast Turkey, or if they want to splurge on
the unhealthy side, they go for Austrian Dumpling! Just
thought I would let you know, as you seem to be a man who
loves life, and food is an important part of the
enjoyment!
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicolas:
I am sorry. I did not mean to imply that you were
speaking in a way other than hypotheticaly. I was
speaking in that manner as well.
Some more hypothetical talk for you. If France were to
join an RFG alliance to eliminate the which in the
corner, we would want to make certain that Germany is
firmly on board. We have not gotten the feeling that
Germany strongly wants to work with France. In that
case, we would hypothetical, and naturally, lean towards
working with England. In such a possible FGR future, we
may have to count on you to help convince the German, and
then convince me of his sincerity.
On a related note. What happened to your man in
Robobank? He puts on the Yellow Jersey and then he falls
off the face of the earth? Does Lenin have him out
canvassing for Union rights amoung the spectators? Those
wooden signs draped over his front and back must really
slow him down!
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to all
Major thunderstorm fried my modem. The replacement is working, finally,
but it's late, and I'm annoyed, so I'll try to contact everyone tomorrow.
Russia.
Message from Germany to all
It's that one two punch. Or is that a one-a and a two-a?
Zabel will win more stages and the green jersey. In the mountains we
have Ullrich. Can Team Telekom be stopped? Time will tell.
> I thought that the TdF was a long haul race and not one
> for sprinters. But it looks like a sprinter is stealing
> the show for now. Can Zabel avoid the early leader
> syndrom and not have all the other powers conspiring to
> beat him down! Emperor Frederick best watch out. This
> may work against him :-)
>
> This gives 10 more points to Germany and likely sets him
> up for 20 more points for the Green Jersey.
Message from Germany to France
Sorry that I'm been slow on getting back to you. I've been watching
TDF on TV. Amazing stuff. Much more exciting than this game. I'll
make some serious proposals tomorrow.
(I'm also working on girlfriends. I'm enjoying the TDF more, but they
are softer.
Freddy
Message from Germany to England
Ivy
Sorry if I haven't responded to anything that you've said lately. (I
haven't read emails) I've been tied up watching Tour de France on TV.
It's captivating. A million people watched yesterday's stage in
person. Amazing.
I'll make some time for this game soon.
I'm also not sure that we all need to be creating a mountain of press
right now.
Freddy
Message from Russia to Turkey
> Message from Turkey to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the delay in my response; I've had
> trouble with my communications apparatus.
It seems to be spreading... 8-(
> That could work. Offhand my concern would be that I'd need to defend both
> home centers this fall, meaning my fleet couldn't get out to Aeg, which is
> one of the compelling arguments in favor of Ank-Con.
I do agree that the Slingshot greatly increases your security, and as long
as I build Armies and you build Fleets, the stab potential between us is
minimized. The only real advantages of the Turkish Attack/Hedgehog are
that no-one is going to suspect we're allied, and it gets your Fleet to the
Aegean in F1901, short-circuiting the Lepanto. This does assume that you
trust me enough to move Con-Aeg with my Fleet in Bla, but given that
A Arm, A Bul, A Ser, and F Con could cooperate to take Rum in F'01,
that trust question really goes both ways.
> I think a Turkish landing in Rum would only be temporary, as Rum must
> clearly be a Russian centre in the long term.
Actually, if we want to extend the Juggeraut to its natural conclusion, the
Balkans, Austria, Italy, Tun, Mar and Iberia would be yours, while Germany,
Scandinavia, Engand, the Low Countries, Par and Bre would be mine, but
Rum and Por are flexible.
> Hm, I don't think I'm following you here. A western triple would imply
F/I
> conflict, which would be welcome.
Welcome for you, certainly, but I'd find myself facing EG in Scandinavia,
something I'm hoping to avoid. 8-)
> I don't agree that RT favors Russia over Turkey,
I don't either, actually, but most of the articles seem to think so. It is
certainly possible for Russia to demand large chucks of Austria, and
choke off Turkey growth/expansion path, but it seems rather pointless
to try to arrange an RT and then do that.
> It seems at present that neither of us is comfortable with the other
> controlling the Black in the opening move. I will consider your
> proposal in greater depth when I am able, but it makes me a
> bit uncomfortable. If we cannot come to some such agreement,
> do you favor a bounce in Bla or DMZ there?
I'm not ruling out the Slingshot. I thought you were looking for a
way to conceal the RT, and didn't feel the Slingshot would do so,
and offered an alternative that would.
Nick.
Message from Observer to Observer
From: Douglas T. Massey E-mail: masseyd@b...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim-Bob said:
>Ah, so actually we have EVEN more information, since some of the
>people on this list (not me) were in the Second Round.... we
>already know you were, since you said you were. Do
>you have any idea who won your game among the players
>here???
Yes, but they're sworn to secrecy.
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont
\o ASICs Product Development Engineering |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~masseyd (|)
Message from Observer to Observer
Responding to Jim-Bob:
> > Austria, Turkey and Germany: we have not heard much public press
> > from these countries, so I'm guessing that Randy and Ken have to
be
> > playing two of the three powers (given their proclivity for
> > nopress). If my other guesses are correct, by process of
> > elimination, Rich has to be playing the third of these
countries.
> >
> I think that sounds right on, just about how I would figure it.
> It will be nearly impossible for us to actually figure out who
> is who here, though.
After the move results we should have some information to go on.
> > England, France and Italy: Allen, Roger and Jeff, because all are
> > friendly verbose Dippers who tend toward humor at times. I'd
place
> > Jeff as Italy.
> >
> I agree, and Allen (Ivy Wingo) is almost definitely England.
> I am more convinced of that now than my initial "probabilities"
> indicated. Again, here, by process of elimination we have
> Roger as France, which also makes sense with the "Tour de France"
> press.
OK, so let's take that as settled: Allen is playing England and
Roger is playing France. I'm also pretty well convinced that Jeff
and Eric are playing Italy and Russia (I would say "respectively",
but it's possible that Eric is playing Italy and Jeff Russia).
> > IF I'm correct in my guesses, then Allen or Roger (France or
> England)
>
> Allen....
My money is on Allen prevailing in the Western Triangle, not Roger
(in fact, I'm rooting for Allen to win it, though as england that'd
be tough to do, especially in this game. My second choice is Roger.
I like Randy, Eric and Jeff also. It was very tough to pick someone
to root for!) Allen is Roger's equal in diplomacy in my opinion, and
given the probability that the Frenchman soloed in the second round,
he may very well be able to convince the German to go for the "let's
get rid of the top player first strategy".
> > could be in serious trouble. With Germany (as far as we can
tell)
> > lying low in comparison to E and F, it's very possible that E AND
F
> > will each attempt to court G to gang up on the other. Normally
I'd
> > say Allen and Roger might side with each other, but given the
> stakes,
> > each will probably seek to eliminate the other. Their diplomatic
> > style is too similar (in my limited experience with both of them)
> for
> > them to ally in this particular game.
> >
> > The reason I predicted that France will be the odd man out (in an
> > earlier post) is that the person who is playing France in the
final
> > is probably one of the top finishers in the second round (since
the
> > conventional wisdom is that France is a desirable country to
play,
> > and the top finishers of the 2nd round had first pick of
countries
> in
> > titleist), therefore the English and German players might seek to
> > eliminate the perceived greater threat of France.
> >
> Ah, so actually we have EVEN more information, since some of the
> people on this list (not me) were in the Second Round.... we
> already know you were, since you said you were. Do you have
> any idea who won your game among the players here???
Yes, I do, but as Doug says, I'm sworn to secrecy. If someone were
to establish a poll for the identities, I could give my input
anonymously... :)
[snipped my premature analysis of alliances]
> I think it is a bit early to be very confident about alliances
> forming,
Agreed. I'm not in a game right now, so my diplomatic effort is
focused (perhaps too much) on this group.
Karlis
Message from England to Germany
Freddy,
> I'll make some time for this game soon.
Good. There is one essential detail that we need to agree on. Do we take
the agressive route or a passive wait-and-see route?
I really prefer that we open with a bang and hit the Channel and Burgundy,
while encouraging Italy to go for Piedmont, but I don't wish to open to the
Channel if you prefer to wait.
So please respond soon with your feelings on this. I don't want France to
get off and running. If you say you want a more conservative, conventional
opening I will respect that and do likewise.
I still am talking to France (a lot; he is agressive and friendly), but you
are still my first choice for an ally.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
> I do agree that the Slingshot greatly increases your security, and as long
> as I build Armies and you build Fleets, the stab potential between us is
> minimized. The only real advantages of the Turkish Attack/Hedgehog are
> that no-one is going to suspect we're allied, and it gets your Fleet to
the
> Aegean in F1901, short-circuiting the Lepanto. This does assume that you
> trust me enough to move Con-Aeg with my Fleet in Bla, but given that
> A Arm, A Bul, A Ser, and F Con could cooperate to take Rum in F'01,
> that trust question really goes both ways.
Yes, I realize that any such "exotic" opening will likely involve some
amount of trust on both sides. One thing that you didn't address was what
ultimately becomes of your southern fleet. Are you reluctant to lose it?
Please let me know your feelings on the matter; as I said, it's one of the
reasons the slingshot appeals to me so much.
> Actually, if we want to extend the Juggeraut to its natural conclusion,
the
> Balkans, Austria, Italy, Tun, Mar and Iberia would be yours, while
Germany,
> Scandinavia, Engand, the Low Countries, Par and Bre would be mine, but
> Rum and Por are flexible.
I suppose this is true, in the long run. To be honest I hadn't thought that
far ahead. I do think that in the near term, at least, it's not realistic
for me to own Rum since it borders a Russian home center. But of course,
we'll have a fair bit of flexibility going forward, and we can certainly
trade centers to keep an even balance.
> Welcome for you, certainly, but I'd find myself facing EG in Scandinavia,
> something I'm hoping to avoid. 8-)
Yes, true story. For what it's worth, France seems to be quite concerned
that his border with Italy is peaceful. This probably means he's planning
to attack either E or G, which would certainly take pressure off
Scandinavia. And, as I mentioned, if an EF turns up it'll be good news all
around.
> I don't either, actually, but most of the articles seem to think so. It
is
> certainly possible for Russia to demand large chucks of Austria, and
> choke off Turkey growth/expansion path, but it seems rather pointless
> to try to arrange an RT and then do that.
Actually, I see you owning all of Austria save Trieste. As you know, I
foresee Russian strength in the center, and my expansion route would mainly
be through sea lanes.
> I'm not ruling out the Slingshot. I thought you were looking for a
> way to conceal the RT, and didn't feel the Slingshot would do so,
> and offered an alternative that would.
I'm not necessarily that worried about hiding the RT. My main interests are
in finding a solution for the southern Russian fleet, and building an overt
RT. The slingshot becomes a different strategic move once you assume it
will be recognized. The fact that it will likely be recognized probably
gives Russia a bit more security, since an apparent RT pretty well rules out
any Turkish alliances with Austria or Italy.
In any case it isn't the only choice. I'm still curious about how you feel
about losing the southern fleet, or what you foresee doing with it if it
isn't converted to an army. Also, what are your feelings on whether to come
out in the open or try to hide our alliance? You seem to be favoring
"hide"... is this true?
Looking forward to your reply,
Ali Baba
Message from Observer to Observer
Am I the only one who thinks the bike race scheme to generate
goodwill is boring and silly (for that matter, am I one of the only
ones who posts to this group? Can you tell I'm not in a game right
now? :-))?
When it was first proposed, I thought it was a clever idea; a good
way to break the ice and foster goodwill with other players. However,
it's dragging on and on (and it's still spring 1901!!) and has not
provoked any clever dialogue (at least not public dialogue). It
might have given Roger (let's assume it's Roger who is playing
France) an edge in initial negotiations, but could just as easily
turn into a liability. It may already have!
I bet Germany sides with England against France. I said that before,
but the ongoing bike race crap makes it more likely in my opinion.
It's too obviously a gimmic. I prefer Allen's (assuming Allen is
England) approach at a game-wide involvement gimmic - gives you a
chance to introduce yourself in a novel way, some folks might have
fun for a day or two, then it's over. That approach might look even
better to the players in titleist who have tired of the bike race
game.
What does anyone else think?
Karlis
Message from Observer to Observer
All right, here's my second attempt to provoke some responses:
If you are rooting for a particular player, which one, and why?
I'm rooting for Allen. After Jeff and I defeated him in vgfp0012, he
vowed revenge (in a friendly manner) in the next round.
I told him that he could try, but that I have eyes in the back of my
head. He told me that I do him a disservice by insinuating he would
stab me in the back. He told me that when he would come for me, it
would be out in the open. Well, he was right. He had me 110%
convinced that he would pick me over [censored - name and country] in
the very early mid game. I was wrong and subsequently annihilated.
His play was completely aboveboard (he of course emphasized certain
things and de-emphasized others to mislead me, but there were no
stabs), which kept me more or less on his side throughout the game
even though he was the primary reason for my downfall. In retrospect
I might (and maybe should) have seen it coming, but his spell over me
at the time was that complete. I cannot properly attribute my loss
to a mistake on my part (though I certainly made some mistakes in
that game). I was defeated through Allen's superior diplomacy. And
he's a damn nice person (actually, all of the finalists I've had any
contact with are damn nice folks in my limited experience). Go Allen
go!
I would love to say more, but I am sworn to secrecy. I may have
revealed too much as it is! :-)
Karlis
Message from Observer to Observer
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., povisils@y... wrote:
> All right, here's my second attempt to provoke some responses:
>
> If you are rooting for a particular player, which one, and why?
> Karlis
I'm rooting for Karlis. At least for him to keep up the discussion
even if it is something of a monologue.
Tim
Message from France to England
Ivy Wingo:
So have you heard much from Germany lately? I have heard
from him only sparingly. We then talk about Biking and
not Diplomacy. I am jsut wondering if you are having the
same experiences. The game seems to have slowed down.
We need to get the first moves going.
Otherwise, I hope things are going well. The Dauphin and
I busy ourselves playing Chess. He likes to may battle
sounds, especially when he moves his Horse. I always try
to trade my Bishop or Knight for his Knight, just to
annoy the heck out of him. But then he says something
annoying like, "Talk about separation of Church and
State, I separated that Church from the state of the
Board" when he takes my Bishop. We are passing time
waiting for something to happen.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to all
Tour de France Stage 3 Results:
Official Report:
Former UCI #1 rider Laurent Jalabert (CSC), proved to be
too strong for breakaway partner Ludo Dierckxens (Lampre)
as he took the two-man sprint to win the 215-kilometer
fourth stage of the 2001 Tour de France from Huy to
Verdun.
Aussie Stuart O'Grady (C.A.) managed to keep his the
yellow leader's jersey that he won yesterday, despite a
number of serious breakaways thoughout the day. Defending
champ Lance Armstrong (USPS) stayed clear of trouble and
is still in a good position to vie for a third
consecutive win.
Prince Boar's commentary:
I wonder why they keep talking about Lance And Jan
Ullrich as favorites when they cannot manage to even
break into the top 5. Perhaps when the road gets tough
in the Pyrenees. It is clear that Moreau of Team Festina
is the true favorite! :-)
Atleast a new great power gather some points as the
Turks' team, CSC takes the stage! Congratulations to Ali
Baba.
Official Tally:
Austria (Domo-Farm Frites): 0 points
England (USPS): 0 points
France (Festina): 10 points
Germany (Telekom): 20 points
Italy (Fassa Bortolo): 0 points
Russia (Robobank): 10 points
Turkey (CSC): 10 points
Doug (O.N.C.E.): 0 points
Selected Standings:
1. Stuart O'Grady (C.A.) 19-hours 32-minutes 49-seconds
3. Christophe Moreau (FES) @ :23
5. Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (ONC) @ :26
7. Lance Armstrong (USP) @ :27
8. Jan Ullrich (TEL) @ :30
9. Florent Brard (FES) @ :30
-- Prince Boar
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
> I still am talking to France (a lot; he is agressive and friendly), but you
> are still my first choice for an ally.
France certainly is easy to talk to. Probably why he's #1 (or
close) After some of the 'jerks' I'm been stuck with for allies
talking to him makes me think that this game will be more fun than some
of the other ones. Then I realize that he didn't get to be one of the
top seeds by NOT stabbing his partners at the right moment. The smile
is easy to see, but then so is the dagger.
So let's go for him. For no other reason than he's got to be the most
dangerous person in the game. Not that you're not, or I'm not, for
that matter. Germany is obviously a low seed. On the other hand,
perhaps it's better to fall under the radar screen in this game. ;-)
I am going to Burgundy, but it's a prearranged bounce. If you
arrange a bounce in the English Channel, the only move that he could
make is to Picardy or Spain. Probably Picardy, then move MAR - SPA in
the fall.
Bouncing means that I won't be in position to stop any action in
Belgium. This means that unless you arrange a bounce, France will be in
position to build three. On the other hand, he should know that if he
does that, EVERYONE will notice. (and attack)
This could mean that you could walk into Belgium in the fall. But
that'll be between the two of you.
I prefer a more aggressive route after the first build.
Fred IVXXX
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
Diplomacy is more important than biking? I disagree. This is a
game. TDF is life. (Maybe that's a little over the top)
OLN is broadcasting live. Starting at 9:30 am EST. Which means that
the race is usually half over when they start. But then it's live the
rest of the way. So I turn on my VCR. At work I go to the OLNTV.com
site. The sound from the TV show is available there, if you have a fast
connection.
Kevin Livingston from USPS is on Telekom this year. He was a name that
I remember from last year. I think the Russian replaced him. MAybe
that was a step up?
I'm submitting orders to go to Burgundy. I'm also going to Denmark.
As you point out this will leave Belgium free of German interference in
the fall. This will leave possession of this gem as negotiable between
you and England. Perhaps not the best move for me, but the other option
is not to go to Denmark or Burgundy. If I go to Ruhr, you'll be in
Burgundy, and I'll just have to retreat to Munich, or chance leaving it
open. Truthfully, I wouldn't go for building three in this game. Too
much chance that I'll become a target of everyone around me. I wouldn't
be surprised if you feel the same. I could also not go to Denmark,
but I don't want to give England the opportunity to bounce me out of
there. More importantly, I want to have the Sweden bounce as a tool to
find out what Russia is up too. I have no idea if I'll bounce him out
of Sweden, but I want that option, if he doesn't concentrate on the
south.
I'll send a lot more press after the first move. That's when things
will get 'interesting'.
Why won't there be a Western Triple, at least early? I haven't brought
it up, but neither has anyone else. I wonder why?
I'm ridden over 1200 miles this summer, so far. Making this my best
summer yet. That 38 miles was just a recreation cruise. Three days
before I went 77 miles.
Plus a couple of weeks ago I did 300 miles in 4 days. That was fun.
I'd like to ride across the country, but am too old.
I'll be off on a weekend getaway on Friday. But I should be able to
respond tomorrow again. I don't have DIP at work. It's too
distracting, I need to get some work done there.
Two stage wins already. Ye Ha.
Frederick McMVXII
Message from Germany to Russia
Nik:
We should know more after the opening move. The place that I'm
watching is the Channel. Naturally as in all games everyone is
friends with everyone else, but we'll see what the real moves have to
say. I listen to them more than what anyone says.
To reiterate, I'm not heading east.
Freddy.
>
> Ah, ok, fair enough. It's difficult to predict
> which Centers will be open for builds, since I haven't
> decided on an Opening, but if you want help against
> England, I'm willing to use the Swedish supplies to build
> F StP/NC, (or A StP, if you prefer), or build in Mos/Sev,
> and head south, if you don't want the help, or are allied
> with England against France.
>
> Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Germany to Turkey
Oh you're NOT going to tell me your exact alliances? Ok, I'll guess.
No I didn't really expect you to have your alliances nailed down yet, or
to tell me if you did.
I'm in the same boat. Talking a lot, not saying much. Both France and
England communicate well. Russia less so. For instance, I had to prod
him twice to get anything out of him on what he would build if I let him
into Sweden. I guess he's keeping all his options open.
Naturally if I do let him in, he'll have told me that he'll either will
use the build in your neck of the woods, or against England. Again
this is not news.
Anybody making any sounds about doing the unexpected and moving toward
TYR, BOH, SIL, PRU?
Your friend
Frederick CIXV
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
Thank you for the note. I will confirm the bounce in
Burgundy. It does have some advantages. It gives up
better options for defense of our homeland against Italy.
It also allows us to point out to whomever that we do not
trust each other very much. Just in case that is useful.
As for the Triple Alliance. I have often found that it
is just a ploy to get someone to turn their back so the
other two can stab them more easily. Also, many times it
is suggested early because people are being polite and
feel uncomfortable acknowledging that someone in our
group is likely to be ganged up on by the other two.
Well, in this game we must all be mature enough to know
what is coming and do not feel the need to pretend
otherwise. That is at least why I never mentioned it.
>I'm ridden over 1200 miles this summer, so far.
>Making this my best summer yet. That 38 miles was just
> a recreation cruise.
Don't make me cry. I will be lucky to find the time to
ride 38 miles at once. My best ever was a century. I
could not walk for a few days afterwards :-) Of course
there were two long periods of down pouring rain and the
last third was into a strong headwind (the kind that
makes the flag look stiff :-0)
>Three days before I went 77 miles. Plus a couple of
>weeks ago I did 300 miles in 4 days. That was fun.
>I'd like to ride across the country, but am too old.
Never say that! You are never too old. It is a state of
mind! :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
How are things going? I have not heard much from you. I
assume that you are busy negotiating in the south. I
actually do not mind not hearing from Austria, Turkey and
Russia. But as one of my nearest neighbors, I feel the
urge to talk to you more.
Just drop me a line letting me know how things are going.
Feel free to be honest. If there are still pressure for
you to attack me, I am happy to discuss the reasons for
doing something else. Otherwise, I want to make certain
that I do not badger you by going on and on about a moot
point.
I of course do not expect you to tell me your plans or
your opening. But if you ever want a friendly ear to
discuss options, even hypothetically, I am here for you.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
> One thing that you didn't address was what ultimately becomes of your
> southern fleet. Are you reluctant to lose it
Ummm, as far as I know, the Attack/Hedgehog combo has never been
tried as a Juggernaut cover, so I'm making this up as I go along. 8-) I
suppose the most logical thing to do with F Sev would be to send it to
Con in S'02 or S'03, and then into the Med for a speed run to the Atlantic,
or to have it act as a virtual-proxy to you, and support your expansion into
the Med. I'm not reluctant to trade F Sev in for A War or F StP/NC, but
I am a little concerned about announcing the Juggernaut in S1901M thru
F Sev - Arm. That's likely to result in a Lepanto in the Med, Germany
bouncing me out of Swe in F'01, and early EG pressure on StP. We
could easily find ourselves bogged down trying to eliminate Austria and
get you into Ion while the West resolves itself. Please don't misunderstand
me, though, I'm NOT saying, 'It's my way or the highway!', or that I refuse
to consider the Slingshot. I'm just offering what I think would be a good
alternative, since it obscures the Juggernaut.
> Actually, I see you owning all of Austria save Trieste. As you know, I
> foresee Russian strength in the center, and my expansion route would
> mainly be through sea lanes.
Initially that almost certainly the way it will be true, but if we
eliminate
A, and I start to expand into Germany and Scandinavia, we will probably
have to shift Austrian Centres to you since there are 8 Centres in G/Scan,
and only 4 in Italy.
> The slingshot becomes a different strategic move once you assume it
> will be recognized.
You don't think it's likely to result in a Lepanto and pressure on StP?
> what are your feelings on whether to come out in the open or try to
> hide our alliance? You seem to be favoring "hide"... is this true?
That seems to be the side I'm coming down on, yes. I think the
Slingshot would eliminate any chance I have of getting Swe, and greatly
increase the likelihood of early pressure on StP; while forcing us to deal
with a solid AI and a Lepanto. Do you see it otherwise?
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to Italy
Good Roberto,
It is close to decision time and I hope to hear from you one more time
before I enter my moves. Perhaps you might wish to choose from 1) to 5)
below or submit an original essay of your own.
1) I am moving to Piedmont with the intention of participating in a triple
attack on France.
2) I am moving to Piedmont, but am still uncertain whether I am going east
or west.
3) I prefer not to move to Piedmont.
4) You, Mr. Wingo, are a scoundrel, and I spit in your eye.
5) I prefer not to reveal my plans at this time.
[Germany tells me that he wants to join in an attack on France, but that
his moving to Burgundy is a prearranged bounce. So if you are in Piedmont,
the fall move Piedmont->Marseilles prevents France from taking Spain
without the loss of Marseilles.]
Obviously, I am making my final decision on whether to attempt the Channel.
Your response will enable me to decide whether to attack now or to hold
off and mave moves that enable me to ally with either France or Germany
later on.
Please understand that any response that you give me, including "no
comment," will not affect your good reputation in England.
Most sincerely,
Ivy
Message from Observer to Observer
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., "Tim Goodwin" <tim@9...> wrote:
> --- In vgfp_titleist@y..., povisils@y... wrote:
> > All right, here's my second attempt to provoke some responses:
> >
> > If you are rooting for a particular player, which one, and why?
>
> > Karlis
>
> I'm rooting for Karlis. At least for him to keep up the discussion
> even if it is something of a monologue.
>
> Tim
OK OK, I can take a hint. :-) I suppose I should wait until the
spring moves adjudicate before I begin spouting off a bunch of half-
cocked predictions.
However, I do stand by my judgement that the bike race commentary is
getting old. :)
Karlis
Message from Russia to France
Prince Boar,
> If France were to join an RFG alliance to eliminate
> the witch in the corner, we would want to make
> certain that Germany is firmly on board. We have
> not gotten the feeling that Germany strongly wants
> to work with France.
Frederick seems determined to avoid making
promises or commitments before Fall 1901. I would
not blame you for allying with Ivy, though that is,
I think, more risky for both of us.
> In such a possible FGR future, we may have to count
> on you to help convince the German, and then
> convince me of his sincerity.
I have had very little luck, so far, in
convincing Germany to do, or not do, anything, but
I will continue to lobby him in favor of FGR vs. E.
> On a related note. What happened to your man in
> Robobank? He puts on the Yellow Jersey and then he
> falls off the face of the earth? Does Lenin have
> him out canvassing for Union rights among the
> spectators? Those wooden signs draped over his
> front and back must really slow him down!
Precisely. Lenin's focus is, in some ways,
commendable, but I do wish he would concentrate his
attentions on say, the German team.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
How are things in Rome? I presume that you
and Austria have agreed to some form of a Lepanto
attack on Turkey. Based on my discussions with Ali
Baba, it seems unlikely that he will open Ank-Con,
so the Lepanto should work. I will be issuing orders
to the troops this evening, but will not execute them
until the agreed upon hour, so I can adjust based on
any last minute information you might be able to
provide. Most particularly, has Austria given you
any indication that he plans to surprise me? We've
been discussing an attack on Turkey, but haven't
settled the Galicia question, yet. Please write if
you can.
Your Friend, and Ally,
Nick.
Message from Russia to Austria
My Dear Ralassa,
My apologies for not getting back to you
sooner. It seems as though I am going to have to
send Army Warsaw to the Ukraine, so I would ask
that we declare Galicia a DMZ in 1901, with the
option (and intention) to extend that DMZ each
Fall throughout the next year. Is this acceptable
to you, and Austria-Hungary?
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to France
Good Prince Boar,
>So have you heard much from Germany lately? I have heard
>from him only sparingly.
I wonder it the German really cares much about this game. He writes
briefly and infrequently. He does claim to be my ally and says he has
agreed to bounce you in Burgundy. His last message was about as long as
what I have just written. What he doesn't convey is any sense of
reliability or committment or zest for the endeavor.
Actually, press from others has diminished as well. We need to see moves
to get the blood stirring.
My wife and I saw a terrific movie last night. You would like the movie,
since it was in French (with subtitles for folks like me). "The Widow of
St. Pierre." Best movie I've seen in a year.
Also, I was out chasing butterflies today. Really! Life is so exciting.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Austria to Russia
> My apologies for not getting back to you
> sooner. It seems as though I am going to have to
> send Army Warsaw to the Ukraine, so I would ask
> that we declare Galicia a DMZ in 1901, with the
> option (and intention) to extend that DMZ each
> Fall throughout the next year. Is this acceptable
> to you, and Austria-Hungary?
In the interest of good relations with a neighbor who has shown no
ill-will toward my country, I will agree to keep Galicia inviolate
this year, and in future years unless some deterioration in our
relationship occurs.
I hope this minor degree of cooperation will pave the way for
even more beneficial cooperation in the near future.
More out of curiosity than doubt, what has transpired that you feel
you need your Warsaw army in Ukraine?
Ralassa, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Turkey
Dearest Ali,
Assumimg all remains well with your young regime, I am pleased that we
can work together.
There is some hope that Russia will indeed use a northern opening. If
he does, I think we can have him crippled quickly enough that help from
Italy will not be in time to save him.
Assuming you still feel this is the best way to proceed, I will be happy
to work with you for the forseeable future.
Tamara, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Italy to Austria, England, France, Germany, Russia, and Turkey
My sincere apologies for less than punctual in returning press. Real life
as gotten the best of me the last couple of days. Don't feel 'special' that
you haven't heard from me the last couple of days - I've 'ignored' each of
you equally.
I promise first thing tomorrow morning (Friday) to send a message to all.
Once again, my apologies.
Life is Beautiful (except when it interferes with my Diplomacy),
Roberto
Message from France to all
Tour de France Stage 5 Results:
The fifth stage of the Tour de France is a team trial
stage. Each member of the team gets assigned the time of
the slowest member. The teams therefore ride together
and try to help each other. In most trials so far, the
difference between first and second place has been 0-3
seconds. In this stage Team Credit Agricole finished
almost a half a minute faster than the next team and
almost a minute ahead the the next. The fourth team,
USPS, was almost a minute and a half behind.
This is quite an accomplishment for Credit Agricole since
they were not expected to contend. They must have been
inspired by the fact that one of their team mates is
wearing the Yellow Jersey. O'Grady should hold that lead
for a while, perhaps until the Mountain stages.
NO one gets any points. But at least it is a French team
with the lead. Too bad it is not the one that is riding
for me (Festina).
Selected Standings:
1. Stuart O'Grady (C.A.) 20 hours, 54 minutes 21 seconds
4. Igor G. Galdeano (ONC) @ :57
8. Christophe Moreau (FES) @ 1:17
15. Lance Armstrong (USP) @ 1:53
19. Jan Ullrich (TEL) @ 2:20
24. Michael Boogerd (RAB) @ 2:47
Message from Germany to all
I will be away this weekend. So my next message to anyone will be on
Monday.
This will give you all a good opportunity to blame everything on me.
Sorry, but my schedule calls for me having way too much fun this
weekend.
Frederick XCMXXMVVIII the 3rd
Message from France to Austria
Ms. Felicia:
I trust that things are going well. It has been a quiet
game so far. Turkey had ISP problems, Germany was busy
with other things, Italy was dealing with real life. At
least I have always been here. But you and I have not
taken much advantage of that.
I hope that you are working things out with Italy. I
believe that Turkey and Russia will open conservatively
and initially stick together. No one wants to make a
mistake and attack the wrong person. Some wise advice.
Yourself and Italy probably want to show solidarity until
you are sure that there is no Juggernaut.
Have you gotten any hint about where German and English
loyalties might lie. I just get warm fuzzies from them.
Perhaps you might hear a bit more that you can share.
At any rate. I wish you the best this season. I hope
that things go your way.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>I wonder it the German really cares much about
>this game.
Well, I have to tell you. I personally need an ally that
I can count out. I do not want to be struggling to
negotiate a tricky situation or not be able to discuss
some last minute cool plan that I have. Communication is
the key ingredient in an effective alliance. I think
that it is pretty obvious which ally I will choose. I
hope (believe?) that you feel the same way.
>agreed to bounce you in Burgundy.
Yes he suggested it. I agreed 3 days ago and last night
he did confirm it. I will move to MAO, Picardy and
Burgundy (bounce). How is that for showing some faith in
you? :-)
>My wife and I saw a terrific movie last night. You
>would like the movie, since it was in French (with
>subtitles for folks like me). "The Widow of
>St. Pierre." Best movie I've seen in a year.
I have not heard of it. But then again the only movies I
really get to see in a theater are made by Disney.
Perhaps I will rent it with Hidden Dragon, Crouching
Tiger, or whatever that movie is called. They both have
subtitles. At least I will not have to worry about the
Dauphin tagging along. He always asks me to explain
things to him, which is distracting. But he probably
will not like the movie that you suggested, no armies and
tanks, I am guessing.
I wish you the best of luck this season. May it be all
that you dream it will be.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
Thank you for your note. I am confirming the bounce in
Burgundy. It is a good compromise in this game. I am
sure that we can still put things to our best advantage
in the long run.
Have you heard anything about an Italian opening? Has he
and Austria agreed not to move to Tyrolia?
I wish you the best of luck this season.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
>Life is Beautiful (except when it interferes with
>my Diplomacy)
Nonsense. Life is always beautiful. It is diplomacy
that can sometimes get ugly. I hope that whatever issues
you were dealing with turned out well.
Perhaps we will get time to chat before the deadline. If
not, I wish you the very best this season.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicolas:
I think it wise that Lenin is concentrating on the
Germans. The French are true racers and would run over
anyone trying to distract them. We may not always be the
fastest riders but we are the most passionate!
I guess that you must be relieved now that Turkey is
finally communicating. It must have been frustrating
writing to him and not hearing back. Perhaps that caused
you to make an alliance with Austria? Just be careful
that Italy and Austria are not setting you up. Caution
may be the best opening move, so you do not attack the
wrong person.
No matter what your difficult choices may be, I wish you
the best luck, at least within the union rules.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali Baba:
Have you managed to recover from your absence. It is
always a bad time to not communicate, the beginning of
the game. With Italy not around for a while, that gave
Russia and Austria a lot of time to talk to each other.
I am sure that you can talk your way back into the mix.
May Allah smile on you and your camel always spit down
wind (especially when you are riding it).
-- Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Good Prince Boar,
[And to our Master, who probably intercepts the mail.]
Some fancy game this is. Turkey and Russia can't talk because of computer
problems. Germany is off in another world. Italy too is distracted. And
Austria - who is Austria talking to? Certainly not to England, but then
when do England and Austria ever talk in 1901?
It's impossible to get a conspiracy under way.
And Doug is saving all of this? What will future novices think when they
search these dispatches hoping for instruction and inspiration?
Me? I think I'll go away for a couple of months. Don't worry, I've phased
the next ten years of moves.
Actually I will be gone most of tomorrow, but expect to be able to check
the mail briefly in the morning and evening.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Austria to France
> Have you gotten any hint about where German and English
> loyalties might lie. I just get warm fuzzies from them.
That is more than I have gotten from them.
Felicia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Italy
> I promise first thing tomorrow morning (Friday) to send a message to all.
I will be flying, followed by driving, most of Friday, and may not have
good communications for the following week either (family committments).
Austria-Hungary intends to maintain an alliance with Italy until and
unless Italy behaves in a way that makes continuation of that alliance
impossible.
I believe that Rom-Apu and Nap-Ion are appropriate moves for Italy, and I
would not be alarmed by Ven-Tyr as long as it was accompanied by Rom-Apu
or Rom-Nap. The northern wanderer Ven-Tyr-Boh-Sil can be key to AI
overcoming an RT alliance, which I currently have to assume we'll face.
I hope our alliance will be fruitful and rewarding for both of us.
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Russia to France
> I guess that you must be relieved now that Turkey is
> finally communicating. It must have been frustrating
> writing to him and not hearing back. Perhaps that caused
> you to make an alliance with Austria? Just be careful
> that Italy and Austria are not setting you up. Caution
> may be the best opening move, so you do not attack the
> wrong person.
Everyone seems to like me, except perhaps Frederick,
who has been unwilling to acknowledge my claim to Swe,
(though it's been quite some time since I've heard from Italy,)
so I don't see myself attacking anyone right out of the box.
I expect that I'll make that decision in S1902.
Nick.
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
I'm happy with the bounce in BUR. You certainly don't want me in
there, and I feel better without you there.
It also allows both of us to sit tight on one front. It's never a bad
idea to hold in MAR the first turn. In case Italy gets some ideas.
One of those ideas being a move to TYR, so holding in MUN also works for
me.
Obviously my other main option was to go to RUHR. But that leaves you
in BUR (more than likely) so a retreat back to MUN will often be the
next move.
Italy has been fairly quiet. Sounds like he has a busy summer like me.
Austria sends the usual; Hi how ya doin. You're a stud, lets be
friends.
What's your opinion of Russia? To me he seems to be less of a
communicative wiz than either you or England.
My what a nice bunch of guys we have. I suppose that's to be expected.
Previous games there always seemed to be a one of more guys who I just
couldn't snuggle up against. This group is special in more than one
way. Perhaps the game should be called charisma instead of titleist. I
almost want to just sit tight and be friends with everyone. I'll set
draw if you will. ;-)
Frederick XXXXXIV
Message from Italy to Austria
> I believe that Rom-Apu and Nap-Ion are appropriate moves for Italy,
I do believe I have settled on rom-apu and nap-ion. I have not committed
myself to convoying the army though but want to at least have the
possibility available to me.
> and I would not be alarmed by Ven-Tyr
This is the unit that I'm still not sure what I will do. I've considered
pie, tyr, tus, and holding. Piedmont in conjunction with the other two
moves above doesn't make much sense. No need to provoke the Frenchman.
Tuscany is a very defensive move but it would provide you with an assurance
that Trieste would not be attacked this fall so your units would be fully
available to you. Holding just doesn't seem like the way to go in a press
game. That leaves Tyrolia. I'll ask Germany whether or not it would be
okay with him if the reason for the move was the tyr-boh-sil crawl.
> I hope our alliance will be fruitful and rewarding for both of us.
As do I.
Again, my apologies for any inconvenience I may have caused with my delayed
press.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Germany
Hope this reaches you before your trip.
Austria has given me the green light to move to Tyrolia for the express
purpose of moving to boh then to sil/gal in coming seasons.
I know you asked for advance warning of a move to Tyrolia. I have not made
up my mind that I will definitely move to Tyrolia but it is a distinct
possibility.
I realize there is a good chance that you won't receive this message in time
for a reply but, if possible, a stamp of approval would most likely tip the
scale for me in deciding my final order. If you have an opposing point of
view regarding the potential northern movement of my army, I would be most
interested in hearing that and I would certainly reconsider my orders.
Again, my apologies for any inconvience my delay in press has caused you and
I hope you have a good time this weekend.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
You can let your brother know that the move ven-pie in Spring 1901 has been
removed from the board and is not an option. My spaghetti tossing advisors
have convinced me that it is a poor opening tactic.
You had previously asked about Austria. I'm not sure where you received
your information that AI was having problems. Austria has proven to be a
fine diplomat and I am happy to call him a friend and potential ally.
Perhaps the Turk was leaking false information.
We wish you the best of luck in the coming season and hope to maintain a
peaceful western border for years to come.
Just for kicks and hypothetically of course, in conjunction with rom-apu and
nap-ion, how would you rank the following Venetian moves?
ven hold
ven - tus
ven - rom
ven - tyr
ven - tri
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
I'm afraid I'm going to have to compose my own entry #6.
6) I prefer not to move to Piedmont in the Spring of 1901 but would consider
the move at a later season in conjunction with a 3-way attack.
The advice I've received is that an immediate move to Piedmont is too easily
stopped by France and ties up too many of my units. My fear is that my
Austrian friend will be overrun by RT if I focus too much of my attention to
the west too soon.
> So if you are in Piedmont, the fall move Piedmont->Marseilles prevents
> France from taking Spain without the loss of Marseilles.]
Only if France makes a tactical mistake. If indeed FG have a pre-arranged
bounce in bur, then France should do either of 1) mar-spa which would leave
me with a guess as to whether or not to move into mar or 2) mar-bur and
par-gas which of course leaves France quite capable of capturing spa while
keeping mar.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> Have you managed to recover from your absence. It is
> always a bad time to not communicate, the beginning of
> the game. With Italy not around for a while, that gave
> Russia and Austria a lot of time to talk to each other.
> I am sure that you can talk your way back into the mix.
Ah, the fox is in the henhouse now. I have been communicating with Russia
and Austria, and rather thought I was in the mix. What have you heard?
> May Allah smile on you and your camel always spit down
> wind (especially when you are riding it).
Likewise, I'm sure. Except the bit about the camel. You don't have camels
in France, do you?
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
How are things going on your end? I hope you've had a chance to give
consideration to IT alliance. As time progresses, I myself am favoring it
more and more. Here is what I've seen since we last spoke.
Austria proposes that I join him against Russia, then build fleets to come
after you. I'm not altogether sure he's sincere, though, or else perhaps he
doesn't believe I'll move anti-Russian. Meanwhile, my discussions with
Russia concerning the Black Sea and the ultimate status of his southern
fleet have been unproductive.
In the West, Germany is simply being coy, and England hasn't written at all
lately. France, for his part, is mostly concerned that I not urge you in
his direction. My guess is that he'll concern himself within the Western
Triangle, and probably won't give you any trouble... although of course
that's just a guess.
In any case, I'd like to extend an official invitation to form an active IT
alliance. If you're willing to give it a shot, I can assure you, you'll
find me a quite worthy ally. My gut reaction to our dialogue so far is that
we ought to be able to get along well; I think we see many things from the
same perspective.
If you agree, then I'd like some feedback on how best to proceed. I see two
scenarios that have some promise. One, we begin with an ITR joint effort
against Austria. As soon as Austria and Russia are fighting, probably
spring or fall of '02, I attack Russia. The hope is that A/R conflict will
make it difficult for them to join forces, and coordinated IT efforts should
be quite effective. This would mean I'd go along with Russia in the
opening, probably bouncing him in Bla and moving Smy-Con.
The other scenario is that I could go along with Austria at first, opening
blatantly anti-Russian, probably Ank-Bla, Smy-Arm. Austria has speculated
that you might be happy to remain neutral at first, though in truth I
suspect he's urging you against me. Anyway, assuming Austria did attack
Russia, that would leave him open to attack from Italy. I would then join
you against him, and again hopefully A/R conflict would give us an easier
time of it.
France has implied that there may be an AR alliance brewing, perhaps due to
untimely silence on both your part and mine. My impression was that he was
fishing, but of course an AR alliance wouldn't be good for either of us.
I may be risking a bit by revealing this much to you, but if we form an
alliance as I hope, then I believe we should combine our efforts in
intelligence as well as combat. I hope that you will consider my invitation
to alliance, and I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest
convenience.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Austria
My Dearest Tamara,
Sorry I haven't written lately. I hope that you're being on the level about
anti-Russian campaigns; I've heard rumors that an AR alliance may be in the
works. I think that joint AT action against Russia would be very beneficial
to us both, and I think that in the long run your interests and Russia's are
sure to collide, so I hope that you haven't changed your mind.
Unfortunately, Germany is being very coy about his intentions, and England
hasn't written at all lately. Do you know if Germany is planning to contest
Sweden this year? Any indication of what's going on in the west?
In any case, I'd like to discuss the details of our joint campaign in
greater detail. Are you willing to open to Galicia? If you did, and I
opened to Armenia, it would put Russia in a tight spot.
Also, I'm curious to hear where the rumor of a northern Russian opening came
from. Russia has not indicated to me what he intends, but I rather got the
impression he was more concerned about the south.
Anyway, we have much to discuss. I look forward to hearing from you at your
earliest convenience.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
With the deadline approaching, it's starting to look like we're at a bit of
an impass regarding the opening. You're not comfortable with the Slingshot,
and I'm not really comfortable with the Southern Attack/Hedgehog plan.
Since the deadline is tomorrow, perhaps we should agree to a DMZ or a
bounce? I apologize for my hesitancy... I guess I haven't really ruled out
the Hedgehog plan either, but it still makes me a bit nervous.
In any case, I think it's important that we come up with some kind of
agreement before the deadline. Our relations will go much more smoothly if
we each know what to expect from the other. At present my orders are
Con-Bul, Ank-Con, Smy-Ank, for lack of anything better to do.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Germany
Frederick,
> Oh you're NOT going to tell me your exact alliances? Ok, I'll guess.
> No I didn't really expect you to have your alliances nailed down yet, or
> to tell me if you did.
Indeed, they have not yet been nailed down. I must confess to some anxiety
regarding the matter. I may just have to see which of my neighbors go to
war before deciding. Hopefully they won't all just come after me.
> I'm in the same boat. Talking a lot, not saying much. Both France and
> England communicate well. Russia less so. For instance, I had to prod
> him twice to get anything out of him on what he would build if I let him
> into Sweden. I guess he's keeping all his options open.
> Naturally if I do let him in, he'll have told me that he'll either will
> use the build in your neck of the woods, or against England. Again
> this is not news.
Interesting. I take it then that you're planning to at least have the
option in the fall? Austria has been urging me to join him in an early
anti-Russian offensive, but I'm not yet convinced he's on the level. I've
also heard rumors (though only rumors) of AR cooperation. What is your
impression of the Austrian?
> Anybody making any sounds about doing the unexpected and moving toward
> TYR, BOH, SIL, PRU?
Not a peep. I still have no idea what any of my neighbors is planning.
However, I must say I'll be surprised if anyone moves to any of those
provinces.
And I'm not just being coy... I really don't know what this first move will
look like. Everyone seems to be playing their cards quite close to the vest
so far. Either that, or I'm being kept in the dark more than I realize.
Kind regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
How are things going in the north? Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope
all is well on your end.
I must say, with the deadline fast approaching I still have few clues what
to expect. I will say that my negotiations with Russia have been
unproductive, though we may still work something out before the deadline.
Austria is urging me to join him in an anti-Russian campaign. Naturally I'm
curious about any potential English and German participation in such a plan,
but the German is being coy. He's hinted there's a possibility he may let
Russia into Sweden this year, although my impression is that's not been
decided yet. What are your thoughts on the subject?
In any case, I hope we won't lose touch. I look forward to hearing from you
when you get the chance.
Ali Baba
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
I haven't had much contact with A or I. Italy appears to be busy with
the good life. Austria, I don't know.
Just some friendly conversations about Tyrolia. I'm hoping that we
don't see anyone there, also.
Well I'm worthless for your benefit. Hopefully that will change as the
game moves on.
Freddy
Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
I'm sorry, it just dawned on me that I didn't answer your question! The
reason I'm not as concerned about the Leponto is that I had hoped I could
portray my actions to AI as being genuinely anti-Russian, even if the
slingshot were recognized. Austria has been urging me to join him against
you, and I've been trying to win Italy's good graces (for reasons I'm sure
you can understand), so that notion may not be entirely far-fetched.
I also figured you could immediately claim that you regretted the decision
to go along with the sling, that you don't feel you can trust me after all,
and so on. Anyway, if we can give AI the impression that they can play us
off against each other, they should be unprepared for our attack... even if
they're planning an attack of their own.
Also, I should make clear that I didn't mean to imply that a rebuilt army
should be in the north. An army build in Sev can also be quite effective,
if you prefer to focus on the south at first. Germany has hinted to me that
he'll let you into Sweden if you tell him what he wants to hear regarding
what you'll build as a result. And France seems to want peaceful borders
with Italy, implying he'll be giving either England or Germany some trouble.
Anyway, I'll repeat what you said: I'm not trying to ram my proposals down
your throat. We have many options, but I did want to make sure I addressed
the concerns you rased in your press.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Germany
Dear Freddy,
Thanks for your quick reply!
> I haven't had much contact with A or I. Italy appears to be busy with
> the good life. Austria, I don't know.
> Just some friendly conversations about Tyrolia. I'm hoping that we
> don't see anyone there, also.
I see. Wish I had more to tell ya. I'll certainly write if I learn
anything along those lines.
> Well I'm worthless for your benefit. Hopefully that will change as the
> game moves on.
Not entirely worthless I'd say. Any chance you might shed some light on
your thoughts regarding Sweden? If an anti-Russian campaign were launched,
would you be in a position to join juch an effort? Or is it too early to
tell?
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
>ven hold
>ven - tus
>ven - rom
>ven - tyr
>ven - tri
When I play Italy, I almost always open to Tyrolia. It
ticks off the German, but I want to make certain that
there is early G-E alliance against France. It also
opens up the possibility of Munich, Vienna, or Trieste in
the fall, but I typically sit tight in Tyrolia or bounce
Austria somewhere. Tyrolia is a powerful place to be.
It is not necessarily a move against Germany. It also
opens up the possibility for a move to Bohemia in the
fall.
My second choice is to hold. It sounds boring, but it is
safe and leaves options for the future.
Do not forget the Rom -> Ven, Ven -> Apu option. It
accomplishes the same thing as Ven hold, but it is more
interesting.
I am glad to hear that things are going well with you and
Austria. I should not even repeat rumors as they are
almost always false at this stage of the game. It was
just something about Turkish fleets into the Mediterrean.
Something that neither one of us wants. Hopefully it is
false.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
>When I play Italy, I almost always open to Tyrolia. It
>ticks off the German, but I want to make certain that
>there is early G-E alliance against France.
I meant to type "there is NO early G-E alliance...."
See what happens when you edit your sentences after
writing them, and then you do not proofread! :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali Baba:
>Likewise, I'm sure. Except the bit about the camel.
>You don't have camels in France, do you?
But of course not. We ride our bikes everywhere. That
is why we are such good racers.
Glad to hear things are going well. I hope that you and
Russia were able to work things out concerning the Black
Sea. A bounce is always so safe, but moving to
Constantinople is so much strong. Either one is fine as
long as you and Russia see eye-to-eye.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
I am sorry, France cannot set draw. The Dauphin says
that we will fight to the death! Or at least until 1905,
then we shall see.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicolas:
I am sure that everyone does like you. What is not to
like? The single eye brow is very fashionable these days
;-) And the evil eye, it is all the rage with the
ladies! :-)
Talk to you on the other side of the moves.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to all
What a lucky day to have our first deadline! My
astrologer says that it will be a good day for me. I
just do not know why he was sweating so much, the air
conditioning was on? At any rate, I am sending you all a
four-leaf clover, just to cover your fate. I have
millions of clover in my yard, it should not be hard to
find a few with four leaves.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Master to England and France
England said:
>[And to our Master, who probably intercepts the mail.]
Indeed.
>And Doug is saving all of this? What will future novices think when
>they search these dispatches hoping for instruction and inspiration?
Maybe everyone else is telepathic . . .
>Me? I think I'll go away for a couple of months. Don't worry, I've
>phased the next ten years of moves.
Holds and disbands, I presume . . .
;-)
Doug
Message from England to Turkey
Good Ali,
>How are things going in the north? Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope
>all is well on your end.
Yeah. I hope so too.
I do not know how the EFG triangle will resolve itself and do not expect to
know after the moves. I believe I know the exact German and French moves,
and they are entirely conventional and flexible.
>Austria is urging me to join him in an anti-Russian campaign. Naturally I'm
>curious about any potential English and German participation in such a plan,
>but the German is being coy.
I know of no plans by Germany to hinder Russia, and I will tell you that I
have no intention of troubling Russia anytime soon. Of course, if Russia
were in a state of decline it would only be natural for Germany to eye
Sweden and for me to eye StP.
>He's hinted there's a possibility he may let
>Russia into Sweden this year, although my impression is that's not been
>decided yet. What are your thoughts on the subject?
I think it is still conventional for Germany to permit Russia to enter
Sweden and more radical to bounce him out of Sweden. Given the caution
that I perceive in Germany, I would be surprised if he does bounce Russia.
But then, I get surprised a lot in this business.
Also, I suspect that Italy will do the usual, i.e. work somehow to the
east, but I don't know who (whom?) he prefers over there.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Good Roberto,
Thank you most sincerely. Your response has been very helpful to me.
>> So if you are in Piedmont, the fall move Piedmont->Marseilles prevents
>> France from taking Spain without the loss of Marseilles.]
>
>Only if France makes a tactical mistake.
I have done my best to persuade on the basis of strategy. Given what I
know about the German and French moves, it is tempting to continue the
discussion on tactical grounds. But I sense the hour is too late for that
and you have made up your mind. Let's hope we can work together in the
future.
Did you ever see the old Bob Hope movie, The Paleface," in which he sings,
"East is East and West is West ... "?
Please do good work in the East. You will need to be very strong in the
mid-game if we hope to work together.
Most cordially,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Germany
Dear Freddy IVXMC,
Hope you have a nice weekend. Just heard from Roberto, and he does not
want to move to Piedmont. Given the fact that Munich->B will not go
through, but only bounce, I think it best that I too take a cautious
approach this spring.
Let's talk on Monday after you get back.
Your friend,
Ivy
Message from England to France
Good Prince,
You may wish to know that I have in hand a flurry of last minute
dispatches. If there ever was a danger to the French regime, that danger
has passed.
Congratulations.
I hope that I am in the same situation.
I truly, truly wish that you and I live to fight it out as old men. As
young men, we first have the world to conquer. I echo your earlier
thoughts on our compatibility. You are the kind of partner that I look for
in this business. In spite of all the hype for "titleist" no one else is
measuring up. Probably the timing was bad.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nicky,
It's been a while since we last chatted. Nothing has changed.
I believe that Germany will permit you to walk into Sweden. Neither of us
have ever discussed any anti-Russian possibilities. That's a little
strange actually, now that I think of it.
I have no idea how the Russia/Austria/Turkey situation is working out, but
if you run into trouble, it won't come from the north.
Good luck,
Ivy
Message from Russia to Austria
My Dear Ralassa,
>I will agree to keep Galicia inviolate this year, and in future years
>unless some deterioration in our relationship occurs.
My thanks. I trust that the
deterioration will not occur.
>I hope this minor degree of cooperation will pave the way for even more
>beneficial cooperation in the near future.
I remain committed to our joint-attack
on Turkey.
>what has transpired that you feel you need your Warsaw army in Ukraine?
I have been negotiating with Frederick
of Germany in an attempt to gain his assurance
that he will not block our attempt to bring
Sweden into the EEU under Russian control this
Fall, but he has, so far, been unwilling to make
that commitment. Since Germany traditionally
values Austrian strength,it is my hope that by
demonstrating my goodwill towards Austria this
Spring by respecting your border, Frederick will
be more likely to allow my Northern Fleet
unhindered passage to Sweden. Indeed, if you,
or the Austrian Ambassador to Germany could speak
to the Kaiser on my behalf this Fall, I would be
most appreciative.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>I truly, truly wish that you and I live to fight it out
>as old men. As young men, we first have the world to
>conquer. I echo your earlier thoughts on our
>compatibility
Hear hear!
I just wish that we could get started on it! I have my
orders in, without wait. But it seems that someone has
not yet sent in orders. I can't image being late when we
had 10 days to negotiate! :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
Moves are due tonight, everyone. Some have 'wait' set, which is perfectly
fine. But if someone has failed to submit orders after ten days of
negotiation, I'm going to be upset . . .
Also, the following deadlines will be at 48hr intervals, not landing on
weekends. So this game is destined to pick up speed.
Doug
Message from Germany to Master
Doug:
I'll be away this weekend. But that shouldn't impact the game.
Leading a trip of 74 people up to Steamboat Springs, Co.
Rich
Message from Germany to Turkey
Ali:
If an anti-Russian campaign were to be launched, I'd seriously consider
jumping in.
I can say that I am moving to Denmark this turn. That's not really an
anti-Russia move. But I do want to be in position in case something
comes up. More importantly I want to rule out the possibility that
England bounces me out of Denmark in the fall. Even more importantly,
NOT going to Denmark would set me up to have a chance to build three. I
don't want to start that way.
Freddi
> Not entirely worthless I'd say. Any chance you might shed some light on
> your thoughts regarding Sweden? If an anti-Russian campaign were launched,
> would you be in a position to join juch an effort? Or is it too early to
> tell?
>
> Regards,
>
> Ali Baba
Message from Austria to Italy
> I do believe I have settled on rom-apu and nap-ion. I have not committed
> myself to convoying the army though but want to at least have the
> possibility available to me.
I believe the convoy is correct, but we can discuss it more after the moves.
>> and I would not be alarmed by Ven-Tyr
>
> This is the unit that I'm still not sure what I will do. I've considered
> pie, tyr, tus, and holding.
> That leaves Tyrolia. I'll ask Germany whether or not it would be
> okay with him if the reason for the move was the tyr-boh-sil crawl.
While my preference would be Ven-Tyr, Germany would undobtedly be nervous
about it, as he's probably going to send Kiel to Denmark immediately, and
use Mun-Ruh to assure himself of Holland and influence on Belgium. That
would leave Munich vulnerable to a sneak Tyr-Mun in the fall; protecting
against that would weaken his influence on the low countries. And even if
that weren't a concern to him, he'd still probably be uncomfortable with
your army wandering into Silesia, where it borders two of his home centers.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, just that you can expect Germany to
try to discourage you from it. On the other hand, a pattern of honesty in
that series of touchy situations will improve your believability in later
touchy situations.
If you decide not to do that, I suggest you order Ven-Tri. That's right,
attack me. I may decide to order Vie-Tri to bounce that, but if I don't, we
can proceed with a Key Lepanto, where Italy takes Serbia for the fastest
possible attack on Turkey. It's very risky for Austria-Hungary, which is
why I haven't decided to go ahead with it, but it does get that Venice army,
which otherwise just hangs around doing nothing, into action immediately.
I have connectivity for another hour or two, then I'm offline until after the
deadline. I will submit orders soon, and may change them just before I go
offline. Right now I'm in an airport with no local phone calls, paying long
distance charges to send this message. I must be crazy.
> Again, my apologies for any inconvenience I may have caused with my delayed
> press.
Summer is vacation time for many; I suspect this game would better have been
started in September, but the 2000 tournament then wouldn't end until 2002.
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I think we'll all take a cautious approach the first turn. Waiting for
someone else to make a mistake being a common tactic.
I also heard the Italy wasn't going to Piedmont. It remains to be seen
if he goes to TYR. I wouldn't like that if I were Austria, especially
if the army in Rome follows to Venice.
Have a good weekend.
I've noticed that France sends out about three times as much mail as
anyone else. But then we're also getting updates on the TDF.
Fredi
Message from Austria to Turkey
My Dearest Ali,
> Sorry I haven't written lately. I hope that you're being on the level
> about anti-Russian campaigns; I've heard rumors that an AR alliance
> may be in the works. I think that joint AT action against Russia
> would be very beneficial to us both, and I think that in the long run
> your interests and Russia's are sure to collide, so I hope that you
> haven't changed your mind.
In the long run, all our interests are sure to collide. But at present,
I like your appraoch better than Russia's, and will choose to ally with
you as long as that seems a reasonable approach.
There are some reasons for that that lie outside this game. I tend to
prefer unconventional alliances and approaches. While I can justify
this within the game by claiming that unexpected alliances are more
likely to succeed just because they aren't as easily recognized and
countered by the other players, I also am attracted to what in poker is
disparagingly referred to as "Fancy Play Syndrome" - taking the course
more likely to win oohs and ahs from the (usually imaginary) gallery
rather than the straightforward approach most likely to get the money.
In Diplomacy, I can exercise my Fancy Play tendencies withoutt costing
myself real money; and besides, this game at least does presumably have
a gallery.
I have held from time to time that AT is a reasonable alliance, and will
welcome the chance to demonstrate it in this game.
> Unfortunately, Germany is being very coy about his intentions, and
> England hasn't written at all lately. Do you know if Germany is
> planning to contest Sweden this year? Any indication of what's going
> on in the west?
I've heard rather little from Germany directly, but what I've heard
indirectly strongly suggests that Germany will open to Kiel to at least
preserve the option of bouncing Russia in Sweden - which is of course
good for us. I also get the impression that France feels he is likely
to be the odd power out in the west, and was soliciting Russia to open
northern, to rebalance the situation some.
> In any case, I'd like to discuss the details of our joint campaign in
> greater detail. Are you willing to open to Galicia? If you did, and
> I opened to Armenia, it would put Russia in a tight spot.
It would indeed. But right now I'm nervous about a rumor of IA Ven-Tri,
and am strongly considering Vie-Tri to protect. I realize this weakens
our assault on Russia, but it would be irretrievably damaged if Vie-Tri
were to succeed, and only delayed by my precautions otherwise.
I'll also try to justify it on appearance grounds: if we both openly
move strongly against Russia in the spring, we can expect Germany not to
bounce Sweden in the fall; it's certainly not in his interest for an AT
alliance to succeed quickly, if at all.
Just to be clear, I would be delighted to see Smy-Arm and Ank-Bla, and
would support Bul-Rum or Bla-Rum in the fall if the opportunity arises.
If Germany also bounces Swe, that would leave Russia with no builds, to
be crippled in 1902 and eliminated in 1903.
> Also, I'm curious to hear where the rumor of a northern Russian
> opening came from. Russia has not indicated to me what he intends,
> but I rather got the impression he was more concerned about the south.
Perhaps France was being optimistic, or intentionally misleading me
while retaining deniability. I don't think it's something we can base
our plans on, but i do consider what the board would look like if he did
move that way while we moved as we've been planning.
> Anyway, we have much to discuss. I look forward to hearing from you
> at your earliest convenience.
I will only be online another hour, and will submit tentative orders by
the end of that time. While I hope to get on again before the deadline,
that's highly uncertain. Family vacation, and they consider Diplomacy
antisocial!
Tamara, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Russia
> I have been negotiating with Frederick
> of Germany in an attempt to gain his assurance
> that he will not block our attempt to bring
> Sweden into the EEU under Russian control this
> Fall, but he has, so far, been unwilling to make
> that commitment.
If you have good relations with England, you can arrange to
take advantage of a German attempt to bounce Sweden. In
the fall, rather than order the futile Bot-Swe, order
Bot-Bal while England convoys an army to Den. Germany ends
up with the difficult-to-defend Sweden, your fleet ends up
in vital Bal rather than distant Bot, and England gets an
extra build and threatening position that will keep
Gertmany distracted for several years.
> Since Germany traditionally values Austrian strength,
Unfortunately, this Germany doesn't seem to, or perhaps
takes an AG alliance for granted.
Just to play devil's advocate, a major reason Germany
favors a strong Austria is to keep Russia engaged in the
south. A strong Austria allied with Russia should be
fearsome to Germany, rather than reassuring.
At any rate, as promised, I will not enter Galicia this
turn, nor on future turns without discussing it first.
> Indeed, if you,
> or the Austrian Ambassador to Germany could speak
> to the Kaiser on my behalf this Fall, I would be
> most appreciative.
I will pass your suggestion on to our ambassador there,
with my endorsement. I'm not sure how much good it will do.
Ralassa, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> If you decide not to do that, I suggest you order Ven-Tri.
> That's right, attack me. I may decide to order Vie-Tri to
> bounce that, but if I don't, we can proceed with a Key
> Lepanto, where Italy takes Serbia for the fastest
> possible attack on Turkey.
>
>From Italy's point of view, the Key Lepanto is the best way to go. It
allows me to build two fleets which gives us a total of three fleets against
Turkey while I would still have another fleet to keep on eye on the west -
used to either help France or be a pest so France doesn't get too powerful
too soon.
> It's very risky for Austria-Hungary, which is
> why I haven't decided to go ahead with it,
>
Which is also precisely why I haven't suggested it. Seems a bit rude for
Italy to ask Austria to take on that much risk so soon in a game.
I've asked Germany his opinion on my moving to Tyrolia but I suspect I won't
get a response as my tardiness as seen him leave town himself. I don't want
to move to Tyrolia without his approval so I'll order ven-tri and expect you
to bounce me. If you don't, we can discuss the Key or something else but I
don't want to be in Trieste come the winter.
After the game, feel free to bill me for the call....
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Austria
Tamara,
Many thanks for your reply. I am greatly encouraged.
> In the long run, all our interests are sure to collide. But at present,
> I like your appraoch better than Russia's, and will choose to ally with
> you as long as that seems a reasonable approach.
Thank you. As the game goes forward, I'm confident you'll find me a worthy
ally. I also enjoy using less conventional approaches, and I think we're
going to get along well.
> I've heard rather little from Germany directly, but what I've heard
> indirectly strongly suggests that Germany will open to Kiel to at least
> preserve the option of bouncing Russia in Sweden - which is of course
> good for us. I also get the impression that France feels he is likely
> to be the odd power out in the west, and was soliciting Russia to open
> northern, to rebalance the situation some.
That matches what little I've heard. England says he's expecting
conventional, flexible openings from Germany and France, and Germany is
likely to open to Denmark. Germany did tell me that he would "seriously
consider" joining an anti-Russian campaign, and England also implied he'd be
interested in StP if Russia were in decline.
> It would indeed. But right now I'm nervous about a rumor of IA Ven-Tri,
> and am strongly considering Vie-Tri to protect. I realize this weakens
> our assault on Russia, but it would be irretrievably damaged if Vie-Tri
> were to succeed, and only delayed by my precautions otherwise.
Understood. For what it's worth, I've tried to remain on cordial terms with
Italy, so as to keep him off my back while I'm occupied in the east. He
certainly never mentioned any plan to attack you, and I would think he would
have said something to either me or Russia. Russia is telling me to watch
out for a Leponto; so if your "rumor" comes from the Russian, then he's
clearly telling us each a different tale. If not, then you certainly have a
valid concern.
> I'll also try to justify it on appearance grounds: if we both openly
> move strongly against Russia in the spring, we can expect Germany not to
> bounce Sweden in the fall; it's certainly not in his interest for an AT
> alliance to succeed quickly, if at all.
See above, Germany did indicate some interest in an anti-Russian campaign.
Of course, whether or not he would carry through is another question. But
Germany would probably benefit in the long run from Russia's demise, so it's
not far-fetched.
> Just to be clear, I would be delighted to see Smy-Arm and Ank-Bla, and
> would support Bul-Rum or Bla-Rum in the fall if the opportunity arises.
> If Germany also bounces Swe, that would leave Russia with no builds, to
> be crippled in 1902 and eliminated in 1903.
I'm not really comfortable opening to Arm if you're not moving to Gal. In
that case, I will just move Smy-Con. I'd rather not be the only one
sticking my neck out, if you know what I mean. If you change your mind, let
me know and I'll attack Arm.
> Perhaps France was being optimistic, or intentionally misleading me
> while retaining deniability. I don't think it's something we can base
> our plans on, but i do consider what the board would look like if he did
> move that way while we moved as we've been planning.
Indeed, a northern Russian opening would be much to our advantage. I'm
confident we could prevail either way, but I must say I applaud France's
efforts.
> I will only be online another hour, and will submit tentative orders by
> the end of that time. While I hope to get on again before the deadline,
> that's highly uncertain. Family vacation, and they consider Diplomacy
> antisocial!
Hope you get this in time to fire off a reply. Best of luck in the result!
Ali Baba
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>I believe that Germany will permit you
>to walk into Sweden. Neither of us have
>ever discussed any anti-Russian
>possibilities. That's a little strange
>actually, now that I think of it.
Hmmm, everyone seems to think I'll
get Sweden except me. Perhaps Freddy is
being more circumspect with me than with
everyone else. The lack of anti-Russian
discussion is heartening, though.
Austria claims that there has been
no mention from Germany regarding the
standard German-Austrian hopes for mutual
success that is normally a corner-stone of
AG relations. Freddy seems to be an odd
fish, all the way around.
>I have no idea how the Russia/Austria/Turkey
>situation is working out,
Neither do I, unfortunately.
Hopefully the Archduke and Ali are as
unsure as I am. 8-) I guess we'll see
who breaks their promises, and who
doesn't, soon enough.
France and I have mostly
discussed the Tour and Lenin's attempts
to unionize the Robobank team of late,
and I've still heard nothing from Italy.
Your Friend,
Nicky.
Message from Italy to Russia
Nick,
First, from my records, it would appear I have not sent you a message for a
week while I've received three from you. That's totally unacceptable and I
will strive to do better in the future. Hopefully, I make up in quality
what I lack in quantity.
> I presume that you and Austria have agreed to some form
> of a Lepanto attack on Turkey.
Yes we have. The latest is the Key Lepanto variation at his request. I do
believe that variation will be very favorable for the IR alliance. I hope
you agree.
> Based on my discussions with Ali
> Baba, it seems unlikely that he will open Ank-Con,
The latest I got from Turkey: "...discussions concerning the Black Sea ....
have been unproductive". He claims there will be no clear winner of the
Black Sea conflict this spring. It will be the first test of his
reliability in my eyes.
> Most particularly, has Austria given you
> any indication that he plans to surprise me? We've
> been discussing an attack on Turkey, but haven't
> settled the Galicia question, yet.
>
No, Austria has made no such indication. He's invited me to move to Trieste
and said he may decide to bounce me. He did not mention whether he would
move to Bud/Gal/??? or hold if he did not bounce me, although Budapest is
the likely landing point since he would need to support me to Serbia to
follow thru with the Key. Austria and I have talked about nothing but a
Turkish attack. There are no long-term agreements of what will happen if we
were successful. There has been no mention of Russian participation.
My take on the west: it's a mess. Ivy has been begging me to open ven-pie.
Personally, I think he knows France and I have agreed to a truce and he's
just looking to distract France so he and Germany are free to either head
your way or take France for themselves. I've heard thru the grapevine that
FG are prearranging a bounce in Burgundy. This means that Germany will not
be getting three builds so that is good news. I have absolutely no
indication as to whether or not Germany is planning on moving to Den in
preparation for a Swedish bounce. Germany has played it close to the vest
on that subject as have both EF (ie: they haven't leaked any
disinformation).
If there is anything more you need from me before the deadline, please do
not hesitate to ask. I will answer if possible.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto, My Friend,
> it would appear I have not sent you a message for
> a week while I've received three from you. That's
> totally unacceptable and I will strive to do better
> in the future. Hopefully, I make up in quality
> what I lack in quantity.
I understand that on occasion, life interferes
with Diplomacy, and the advantage of IR is that close
coordination is not necessary before S1901M.
> > I presume that you and Austria have agreed to some
> > form of a Lepanto attack on Turkey.
> Yes we have. The latest is the Key Lepanto variation
> at his request.
Really? My, that's convenient! 8-)
> The latest I got from Turkey: "...discussions
> concerning the Black Sea .... have been unproductive".
> He claims there will be no clear winner of the
> Black Sea conflict this spring.
He wanted to use the Slingshot Juggernaut
opening to destroy my Fleet. I almost agreed, since
it would have kept his Fleet out of Aeg for some
time, but I was concerned about how EG would react
to us showing Juggernaut in S1901M. I proposed a
Southern System, Turkish Attack Variant, combined
with a Turkish Hedgehog since it would hide the
Juggernaut effectively, and could be shifted into
an Austrian attack in the Fall, or 1902. Of course,
it would also have allowed me to attack Turkey in '02,
so he nixed that idea. As a result, I've proposed
that we bounce in Bla in the Spring, primarily to
keep him from opening Ank - Con.
> Austria and I have talked about nothing but a
> Turkish attack. There has been no mention of
> Russian participation.
Good. We just agreed to DMZ Gal, and
have agreed to attack Turkey, while we wonder
about Germany. 8-)
> My take on the west: it's a mess. Ivy has been
> begging me to open ven-pie. Personally, I think
> he knows France and I have agreed to a truce and
> he's just looking to distract France so he and
> Germany are free to either head your way or take
> France for themselves.
Well, France is a naturally strong Power,
and was one of the first Powers taken in 'titleist',
so that suggests that Prince Boar is a player to
be respected, if not feared. I've certainly
played that up in my discussions with Ivy. Ivy
claims to plan to take Nwy with a Fleet, and says
that he and Germany have had no discussions of
anti-Russian plans. He said he found that odd,
but Frederick does seem odd to me as well. Germany
has said that he's moving to Den, but has not yet
decided whether he will bounce me out of Sweden.
Nick.
Message from Observer to Observer
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
vgfp_titleist group:
Who will be the first power to be
eliminated?
o Austria
o England
o France
o Germany
o Italy
o Russia
o Turkey
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
Message from Observer to Observer
It will be interesting to see how the poll results evolve after the
Spring moves.
Vote at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist/surveys?id=10111210
I tried to put the countries in alphabetical order, but Austria keeps
getting kicked to the end of the list.
Kimon
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> Austria proposes that I join him against Russia, then build
> fleets to come after you. I'm not altogether sure he's sincere,
>
This is not surprising. The Archduke has proposed to me a joint attack
against your fair nation, then I'd head west and he'd go against Russia.
I'm sure he's in consultation with Russia proposing attacking you and the
he'd attack me while Russia went towards Scandanavia. His hope is that
he'll cause enough confusion amongst us that he'll have his choice of
expansion paths. Can't say I wouldn't do the same in his shoes.
> Meanwhile, my discussions with
> Russia concerning the Black Sea and the ultimate status of
> his southern fleet have been unproductive.
>
I'm sorry to hear that. Why can't we all just get along? :)
Seriously, the Black Sea is a critical body of water for both Russia and
Turkey and I can certainly understand why neither of you would want to
relinquinsh control. Typically though, the Russian fleet is involved in
acquiring Rumania in the fall so often times Turkey can sneak Ank into the
Black Sea then.
Any idea whether Germany is planning on bouncing Russia in Sweden? Without
a second build, Russia would be hard-pressed to build a second southern
fleet to challenge your superiority in the Black Sea region.
> In the West, Germany is simply being coy,
>
Oh, cancel that last question. :) Germany hasn't tipped his hand to me
either. I suspect nobody knows but him.
> and England hasn't written at all lately.
I just keep getting, "I'll move to the Channel if you agree to move to
Piedmont". My gut tells me Ivy isn't sincere and would't move to the
Channel even if I agreed. I could test him by agreeing but then I look bad
for agreeing to something and not following thru.
> France, for his part, is mostly concerned that I not
> urge you in his direction. My guess is that he'll concern himself within
> the Western Triangle, and probably won't give you any trouble... although
> of course that's just a guess.
>
That's my take as well. I think France wants his Iberian builds without
causing any trouble and then decide his course of action. He may very well
move my direction but I doubt it would take too much to convince EG to
distract him were that the case. That does bring up a point though
regarding any attack we may be making in the Balkans. I don't want EG
rolling over France so I must be prepared to send a unit or two west to help
France if he so requests it. I'm not necessarily expecting that to happen,
I just wanted to make sure you understand that I will not sacrifice
long-term goals for short-term gain. If you've played any chess, you'll
understand the analogy that you don't take a pawn if it means your king will
ultimately be exposed. Of course, having my units already west at an
opportune moment wouldn't be bad either. :)
> In any case, I'd like to extend an official invitation to
> form an active IT alliance.
>
> If you agree, then I'd like some feedback on how best to proceed.
> I see two scenarios that have some promise. One, we begin with an ITR
> joint effort against Austria.
>
This is obviously the easiest for me to agree to since I really can't
participate in an AIT attack on Russia. But, back to my chess analogy, I
don't want RT running mad either so the dissection of Austria would have to
provide me with a viable defensive position and a clear indication that a
Juggernaut was not forming (Turkish army builds would be clear enough).
Even Russia being sufficiently distracted in the north by E/G would probably
tip the scale enough for me to completely agree to ITR vs A.
>
> The other scenario is that I could go along with Austria at
> first, opening blatantly anti-Russian, probably Ank-Bla, Smy-Arm.
> Austria has speculated that you might be happy to remain neutral
> at first, though in truth I suspect he's urging you against me.
>
Well, I'm not going to even suggest that you open blatantly anti-Russian and
lose a potential ally. Do you really have that much faith in the Austrian
that he'll follow thru with his end of the bargain? If it works, you're in
like a cat on a rainy night, but if it fails, you can kiss your vgfp trophy
goodbye.
What is in common here though is that there must be A/R conflict. It's very
difficult for Austria and Russia to avoid the inevitable so we may just want
to let nature take her course and then strike at the appropriate time.
Starting in Gre/Tri and working northward into Ser/Rum/Sev would seem
logical. The goal would be an Austrian elimination and not a total Russian
elimination unless his presence wasn't needed in Scandanavia. The trick
comes in getting your armies to Prussia while my fleets reach the MAO. We
can cross that bridge later.
>
> France has implied that there may be an AR alliance brewing,
> perhaps due to untimely silence on both your part and mine.
> My impression was that he was fishing, but of course an AR
> alliance wouldn't be good for either of us.
>
An AR arrangement is fairly easy to spot. Galicia in Spring '01 will tell
us a lot. Let's see what happens there and then revisit the French hunch.
> and I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.
>
My apologies again for my delayed response and whatever inconvenience this
may have caused you.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> > Yes we have. The latest is the Key Lepanto variation
> > at his request.
>
> Really? My, that's convenient! 8-)
>
My jaw almost hit the floor when I read the message. I certainly am hoping
he'll follow thru. Even if he doesn't, I like the fact that he was even
willing to suggest the idea because that means he's developed a least a
little bit of trust in me already.
> but I was concerned about how EG would react
> to us showing Juggernaut in S1901M.
Not well I can assure you. Everybody out west is always on the lookout for
a Juggernaut. Even the slightest suspicion will make them react.
>
> Good. We just agreed to DMZ Gal, and
> have agreed to attack Turkey,
>
Sounds like the three of us are all on the same page. Now it's just a
matter of executing. You will be a key since Turkey will undoubtedly
bombard you to come to his defense. He won't like my opening in the least
and will likely see you as his only hope of survival. String him along if
you like. He should still have some use. What I'd like to see happen
though is that as Turkey is reduced to a couple of units that Austria
doesn't have more than 5 units. That means our attack on Austria probably
happens just about the same time we're supporting Austrian units into
Turkish territory.
>
> Well, France is a naturally strong Power,
> and was one of the first Powers taken in 'titleist',
> so that suggests that Prince Boar is a player to
> be respected, if not feared.
>
I've heard this same line as well from both EG but I'm not really buying the
argument. I've read the list of participants. Heck, even if you put the
highest ranked player in France, that still leaves several respectable
players scattered around the board. If you ask me, all players in this game
have deserved my respect and any one of us has the ability to take the
title.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Thanks for your reply. Good to hear from you.
> This is not surprising. The Archduke has proposed to me a joint attack
> against your fair nation, then I'd head west and he'd go against Russia.
> I'm sure he's in consultation with Russia proposing attacking you and the
> he'd attack me while Russia went towards Scandanavia. His hope is that
> he'll cause enough confusion amongst us that he'll have his choice of
> expansion paths. Can't say I wouldn't do the same in his shoes.
Indeed. Unfortunately too many different stories usually backfires in the
long run. Austria will have to choose sides sooner or later.
> Seriously, the Black Sea is a critical body of water for both Russia and
> Turkey and I can certainly understand why neither of you would want to
> relinquinsh control. Typically though, the Russian fleet is involved in
> acquiring Rumania in the fall so often times Turkey can sneak Ank into the
> Black Sea then.
That's my current plan.
> Any idea whether Germany is planning on bouncing Russia in Sweden?
Without
> a second build, Russia would be hard-pressed to build a second southern
> fleet to challenge your superiority in the Black Sea region.
The consensus seems to be that Germany will indeed open to Denmark, though
whether or not he will contest Sweden remains to be seen. I don't think
Germany wants trouble with Russia, per se, but he did express some interest
in joining an AT effort against the Bear. Austria has also promised to
support me into Rumania at the first chance, but I'm taking it with a huge
grain of salt so to speak.
> I just keep getting, "I'll move to the Channel if you agree to move to
> Piedmont". My gut tells me Ivy isn't sincere and would't move to the
> Channel even if I agreed. I could test him by agreeing but then I look
bad
> for agreeing to something and not following thru.
England says he's expecting conventional, neutral openings in the West.
This matches what I've heard from others as well. In fact, it's starting to
look like everyone on the board will open quite conservatively, myself
included.
> That's my take as well. I think France wants his Iberian builds without
> causing any trouble and then decide his course of action. He may very
well
> move my direction but I doubt it would take too much to convince EG to
> distract him were that the case. That does bring up a point though
> regarding any attack we may be making in the Balkans. I don't want EG
> rolling over France so I must be prepared to send a unit or two west to
help
> France if he so requests it. I'm not necessarily expecting that to
happen,
> I just wanted to make sure you understand that I will not sacrifice
> long-term goals for short-term gain.
Absolutely, of course. One must always be looking ahead, and short-term
tactics need to be driven by those long-range plans, not the other way
around.
> > If you agree, then I'd like some feedback on how best to proceed.
> > I see two scenarios that have some promise. One, we begin with an ITR
> > joint effort against Austria.
>
> This is obviously the easiest for me to agree to since I really can't
> participate in an AIT attack on Russia. But, back to my chess analogy, I
> don't want RT running mad either so the dissection of Austria would have
to
> provide me with a viable defensive position and a clear indication that a
> Juggernaut was not forming (Turkish army builds would be clear enough).
> Even Russia being sufficiently distracted in the north by E/G would
probably
> tip the scale enough for me to completely agree to ITR vs A.
Rumor has it that France has been trying to get Russia to open to the north.
Russia has expressed some concern about EG causing him problems in
Scandinavia and STP, so that may fit. As long as you and I remain on good
terms, I'm certainly not opposed to building an army this year. Such a
build would be sure to be unwelcome in both Austria and Russia, of course,
so I'm banking a lot on our developing relations. I might be able to sell
it to Austria as being anti-Russian.
> Well, I'm not going to even suggest that you open blatantly anti-Russian
and
> lose a potential ally. Do you really have that much faith in the Austrian
> that he'll follow thru with his end of the bargain? If it works, you're
in
> like a cat on a rainy night, but if it fails, you can kiss your vgfp
trophy
> goodbye.
Heh. I'm just looking to survive here, I don't have my eyes on any trophy.
My expectation is that it'll be difficult to end up the board leader, let
alone solo, in this game. Especially as Turkey. If I can survive to share
a draw, I'll consider it a feather in my cap.
In any case, I proposed to Austria that I would move to Arm if he attacked
Gal. He declined, citing some rumor that you were planning to attack
Trieste. He said his plan is to order Vie-Tri to counter such an attack.
> What is in common here though is that there must be A/R conflict. It's
very
> difficult for Austria and Russia to avoid the inevitable so we may just
want
> to let nature take her course and then strike at the appropriate time.
> Starting in Gre/Tri and working northward into Ser/Rum/Sev would seem
> logical. The goal would be an Austrian elimination and not a total
Russian
> elimination unless his presence wasn't needed in Scandanavia. The trick
> comes in getting your armies to Prussia while my fleets reach the MAO. We
> can cross that bridge later.
Indeed. Unfortunately it'll be difficult for me to ride the fence for long
if I'm building armies. But we'll be able to better guage the timing of
coordinated efforts once the game is actually under way.
> An AR arrangement is fairly easy to spot. Galicia in Spring '01 will tell
> us a lot. Let's see what happens there and then revisit the French hunch.
See above. I'm not expecting an Austrian move to Gal.
> My apologies again for my delayed response and whatever inconvenience this
> may have caused you.
No inconvenience at all. In any case it was good to hear from you, and I
look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
>You can let your brother know that the move ven-pie in
>Spring 1901 has been removed from the board and is not
>an option.
The Dauphin is quite pleased. He even gave me a bonus.
I get to have an extra dessert tonight.
Let me see, will it be Claudia, Cloquette, Marguerite?
I mean whom will I share the dessert with, of course!
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
> > but I was concerned about how EG would react
> > to us showing Juggernaut in S1901M.
> Not well I can assure you
Yes, that was my thought as well, and since a western
reaction to RT falls hardest on R, I suspect that played a
role in Ali's desire to immediately announce it to the world.
> Sounds like the three of us are all on the same page. Now it's just a
> matter of executing. You will be a key since Turkey will undoubtedly
> bombard you to come to his defense. He won't like my opening
If Austria allows the Key, you might want to consider Ion-Aeg in
F1901. It would give one of us Bul in 1902.
> > Well, France is a naturally strong Power,
> > and was one of the first Powers taken in 'titleist',
> > so that suggests that Prince Boar is a player to
> > be respected, if not feared.
> I've heard this same line as well from both EG but I'm not really
> buying the argument. I've read the list of participants. Heck,
> even if you put the highest ranked player in France, that still
> leaves several respectable players scattered around the board.
> If you ask me, all players in this game have deserved my respect
> and any one of us has the ability to take the title.
Oh, to be sure. Given four Top-10 players, with the other three
in the top 100, Boar is not the ONLY player to worry about, but
[several sentences deleted]
I suppose I should stop before I say something to break gunboat. 8-)
Prince Boar's press style and frequency suggest to me that he's
someone to watch closely, though.
Nick.
Austria: Army Budapest → Serbia
Austria: Fleet Trieste → Albania
Austria: Army Vienna → Trieste (*bounce*)
England: Fleet Edinburgh → Norwegian Sea
England: Army Liverpool → Yorkshire
England: Fleet London → North Sea
France: Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Marseilles → Burgundy (*bounce*)
France: Army Paris → Picardy
Germany: Army Berlin → Kiel
Germany: Fleet Kiel → Denmark
Germany: Army Munich → Burgundy (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Naples → Ionian Sea
Italy: Army Rome → Apulia
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Moscow → St Petersburg
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Gulf of Bothnia
Russia: Army Warsaw → Ukraine
Turkey: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Smyrna → Constantinople
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