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Message from Germany to Italy
Roberto:
> > > Peace with Germany is an absolute requirement for my
> > > success and I will do anything to maintain that peace.
> >
> > Would that include helping England against France? Or me against
> > France?
> >
>
> Either. Both. Your choice.
I'm in heavy negotiations with both France and England. Probably the
alignments will stay the same. But you never know. If I were to follow
your example I'd attack them both. (and win)
I'll keep you informed. I am counting on getting your support of an
English fleet to the MAO, if all goes well in the negotiations. If
negotations go badly, I'll need help to prevent the Western Juggernaut
from rolling over me. Hope that doesn't happen.
Fredd
Message from Austria to Turkey
> I'm curious to know just how effective Italy's stab really was. Were your
> moves suggested by him, or by grey press? Even if you don't reply to me,
> I hope you'll mention it in your EOY.
No, I would have helped him if he would have let me live, but he didn't feel
the need to make any such deal. You should have taken my offer the previous
turn, but I'm sure you had reasons you didn't. I wouldn't mind hearing
them, now and/or at EoG time.
> Looks like I'll soon be joining you in exile. Save some space for me.
Turkey is hard to kill, and Russia wouldn't gain by speeding your downfall.
And Italy can't send all his forces east; it would take them too long to get
back when England enters the Med. Emotionally, I'd love to see both Turkey
and Italy excluded from the draw, as each of you stabbed me. Rationally, I
think the game is likely to end as either an EGI or EGT draw, and I'll have
to take consolation that whichever of I or T which shares in that draw will
be smaller than England, and therefore will not win the Title.
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
While lying awake in the middle of the night, I reached an easy decision:
trust Germany and move Nth->Nwg. No bounce.
Why was I awake? Read my broadcast. A little dose of real life certainly
puts Diplomacy in perspective.
Ivy
>Message from Germany to England in 'titleist':
>
>Ivy:
> > My work load is suddenly picked up considerably, so my responses
> > may not be as timely as before.
>
>No problem. My opinion is that less is more in this game. Everyone has
>their own agenda here. That agenda rarely matches anyone elses. If you
>talk too much to someone, you'll soon get pissed at that guy because you
>can never agree on anything.
>
> > One difference though. When you were worried about a stab from me,
> > you had 6 units to my 5, and I would have only been able to pick up
> > one of your centers with the stab. In the current situation, when
> > it is still 6 to 5 in your favor, if you entered the North Sea you
> > would get two of my centers, making it 8 to 3. That's not just a
> > stab; that is death.
>
>Actually any of us can pick up two centers from the other in a quick
>hurry. I could take two of yours right now, provided that certain
>people help me out either through action or inaction. Obviously there's
>the quick snatch of Belgium, but one of our friends has pointed out a
>way that I can take Norway, guaranteed.
>Just as certainly you can grab HOL, with France's help. Or swing NTH-SKA
>and ENG-NTH, to grab DEN. Or both.
>
>The reason that we don't do these things is that neither of us likes the
>end result. That's a strong France. We both know that we'll be at war
>with him that minute you or I get depleted. We also both know who
>usually wins that war. Add in that Italy will probably have already
>won, and I don't like the results of grabbing a quick center.
>
>I'd like to stop talking about bouncing NTH. Once before we both moved
>away simultaneously. I can do that again. How about you?
>DEN - BAL and NTH - NWG seem the best moves. I don't think that we
>have a turn to waste on that bounce.
>
>Fredd
Message from England to all
First, I am fairly confident that I will not need a deadline
extension. Tomorrow (Thursday) is a light work day for me, and that should
suffice. Read on.
Yesterday afternoon my wife ran up to me at work and said, "We've got to
get home immediately." [My wife and I work at the same place.] When we
got home, we saw that virtually every major tree on our property was
uprooted or snapped off at the base. The huge oak tree missed the house,
but it was laying across the street, blocking traffic. On the other side
of the house four maple trees were laying on our roof. In the back corner
of the lot my "wildlife forest" was flattened. Electricity, telephone, and
cable TV were all ripped off the house.
As I type, a crew of about six men is working to clear debris from the
roof. We think the only damage to the house will be some light roof
damage, but our yard and its 40-year old trees and landscaping has been
totaled.
This is NOT a plea for sympathy. I am rather hyper right now and just need
to talk. I know the difference between a major nuisance and a
disaster. What we have is not a disaster. Planning the yard again from
scratch might be fun in the long run. And I won't be raking many leaves
for a long time.
Talk to you tomorrow.
Ivy
Message from Russia to Germany
>Message from Germany to Russia in 'titleist':
> > >BTW a convoy to Finland is superior to a convoy > >to Sweden.
> > Not really. From Swe you threaten Nwy, and can
> > cover Den as you move your Fleet to Hel or Ska, and
> > GoB-Swe. Plus from Swe you don't threaten StP. 8-)
>My point was that I also threaten STP. ;-)
My hope was that we could disengage, and both
profit as a result. You have a one center advantage
over England or France, but if you have two Units tied
up around StP, you end up at a disadvantage in the
West.
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
>Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>You should demand the unconditional surrender of Sevastopol and then work
>with him
Already done.
>will you, put effort forth to create an FG alliance, with R neutrality?
Also done. Germany is trying to get StP as
part of the deal. I'm offering him Nwy, but he says
he's not sure that he's attacking England, yet.
In Haste,
Nick.
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
In spite of my broadcast, I am making time to write to you. [Next stop is
my insurance agent.]
Two points. It should be very easy for us to get to put armies in Burgundy
and Picardy this year, maybe even by this spring. After tha, France is in
real trouble. He cannot cover both Marseilles and Paris with his two
armies. I am confident we can handle France fast enough before Italy is
unstoppable. Turkey's last 4 or 5 centers will be very hard for Italy to get.
Second point. Turkey seems to want peace with Russia so that Russia can
help him against Italy. This probably requires that Turkey give Sevastopol
to Russia, and it appears that Turkey is willing to do this so he can
survive to grow again another day. Who is to say how Russia will behave
after he gets Sevastopol, though? Another approach is for you to insist
that Russia be dismantled fast, so that you and Turkey are free to work
against Italy together.
Which approach with Russia do you prefer? I will take your line when
talking to Turkey.
I should be able to peek at my e-mail later this afternoon, but I probably
have no Internet access later at home.
I will have time tomorrow.
Remember, I am offering to move Nth to Norwegian Sea, Eng sup Bel->Pic
along with Mun sup Ruh->Bur and presumably Den->Bal. Is this OK?
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
It's good to hear that you'll trust me. Strangely enough just hearing
that makes me want to be trustworthy. ;-) Must be a human behavior.
> Remember, I am offering to move Nth to Norwegian Sea, Eng sup
> Bel->Pic
> along with Mun sup Ruh->Bur and presumably Den->Bal. Is this OK?
this all works for me. Oops no it doesn't. BUR could retreat to BEL.
I'd really like to move MUN south, but realize that I can't do it this
turn. It does mean that I can move HOL-RUH. That'll help.
My personal preference is to have Russia help Turkey out immediately.
For instance moving WAR to GAL this turn. To that end I've made an
offer to Russia that I'll leave him alone if he gives up STP, and
disbands that fleet. Naturally he's reluctant to do that. On the other
hand, what good is that fleet? In exchange I promised to build an army
and send it south.
Fredd
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
England's moves made it obvious that he expected you to
go for Spain. Turkey of course is angry with you, so he
is liable to tell me anything that will cause me not to
trust you. The other(s) were speculating and telling me
what they guessed would happen.
I am not terribly upset that you were discussing the
option of taking Spain. One must always consider all
options. But I am glad that you saw that it was better
not to.
Now is the real critical point. With your two new units
you may be tempted to come take a part of France. I urge
you not to do so. Turkey and Russia can combine to hold
you back. If England gets worried, he might pull out of
France and FRT might be able to do you in. Therefore, it
is best to focus on one front at a time.
You have played a masterful game, your victory (at least
the largest share in the draw) is almost assured. You
should be proud of your efforts. All you need do is
exercise a bit of patience and not give in to the
temptation of attacking France now.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I guess you will believe what you choose to believe, but
why would I tell Italy that you were going to move to
Tyrolia. I do not even want you to move there!!!! I
want you to move to Kiel.
I also want the two of us to take out England fast before
Italy gets too large. This cannot happen if Italy is
harassing you. I want him to leave both of us alone!
As for a large France being a danger to you. Any large
country is a danger to you. I cannot understand how a
larger France is any more dangerous than a larger
England. Unless you want me to offer to never grow so
you feel comfortable? That seems a little unreasonable.
I am not asking to get huge. I just want enough forces
to eliminate England and put up a defense of France when
Italy comes to call.
I ask you to put aside your thoughts of Germany for a
second and consider the board as if you were France. My
situation is not very good. I have a year, maybe two,
before Italy comes to call. In that time I have be able
to put up a defense. To do so, either England must be
engaged elsewhere or I need England eliminated. I will
never be in a position to stab my western partner (E or
G) as I will soon have all my forces contributing to the
defense of Iberia from Italy.
Can you seen Italy doing anything other than attacking me
in a year or two?????
I see us having two options:
EFG unite to stop Italy
EFG eliminate one and then rush to stop Italy
The best path seems to be FG eliminate England because it
can be done before Italy can destroy Turkey. EF and EG
just seem to slow to me.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
>Germany is trying to get StP as
>part of the deal. I'm offering him Nwy, but he says
>he's not sure that he's attacking England, yet.
Pretty bold of him. Tell him that if he wants peace, he
needs to take centers from England and not you. Having
you give him your centers while he refuses to attack
England is sort of like cutting your own throat, isn't
it?
--Xavier
Message from France to all
Ivy:
I am sorry to hear about your problems. I know that it
is not a true diaster, but it is disturbing nonetheless.
It can make one think about how close things can come to
being true diasters. I guess that you can also think
yourself charmed and lucky that your house was not more
damaged. The French people are thinking of you.
I, on the other hand, am busy for more positive, but
perhaps no less stressful reasons. I had the joy of
sending a child off for his first day of Kindergarten.
He was excited and it seemed to have gone well. But I
was busy all morning and I am way behind at work. I
realize I owe some of you messages, I will send a couple
very short ones now.
My Spring symposium will have to wait. Please do not get
too disappointed by that.
--Prince Boar
Message from Russia to France
>Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
> >Germany is trying to get StP as part of the deal.
>Pretty bold of him. Tell him that if he wants peace, he needs to take
>centers from England and not you.
Yes, I thought so, especially since he wanted
to take StP with A Lvn. Just one of the reasons I
favor EF vs. G. Negotiations continue, however.
Nick.
Message from Master to all
I'm out of town from tomorrow to the 9th, and won't be back reliably until
the 11th, but I'll probably check my email on the 9th and 10th. Please
submit orders and play nicely. :-)
Doug
Message from Observer to Observer
Aha! Another clue!!
> I, on the other hand, am busy for more positive, but
> perhaps no less stressful reasons. I had the joy of
> sending a child off for his first day of Kindergarten.
> He was excited and it seemed to have gone well. But I
So France has an approximately 5 year old son. Do we know which of
the candidates fits this description?
dan.
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> I'll keep you informed. I am counting on getting your support of an
> English fleet to the MAO, if all goes well in the negotiations. If
> negotations go badly, I'll need help to prevent the Western Juggernaut
> from rolling over me. Hope that doesn't happen.
>
Please do keep me abreast of the situation.
Are you considering GF vs E or are you mainly concentrating on GE vs F?
And how does Russia play into this? He's mentioned to me that he will once
again be making moves to combat German aggression. Have you considered your
options in that area? I could use Russian assistance, if just for a single
turn, against Turkey sometime down the road.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Observer to Observer
No, but someone I work with did the same thing yesterday and he has a 5
year old son.
James
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001 dan@i... wrote:
> Aha! Another clue!!
>
> > I, on the other hand, am busy for more positive, but
> > perhaps no less stressful reasons. I had the joy of
> > sending a child off for his first day of Kindergarten.
> > He was excited and it seemed to have gone well. But I
>
>
> So France has an approximately 5 year old son. Do we know which of
> the candidates fits this description?
>
> dan.
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
--
_______________________________________________________
| James Harman Colorado Native |
| _____________________________________________________ |
|Alcohol and Calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive!|
|_______________________________________________________|
It sure is creepy having a friend whose eyes glow in the dark.
- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)
Message from Observer to Observer
So, as I was doing some more searching on the candidates (Big Brother
is watching you... :-) ), I found out some more info.
Jim-Bob - I don't know what your reasons were for listing Roger as
France, but based on the recent revelation that he has a son in
kindergarten, Roger can't be ruled out.
I did a little guessing around based on Roger's email address listed
in his S1999R Pouch Article
(http://devel.diplom.org/Zine/S1999R/Yonkoski/alliance.html), and
came up with: http://home.att.net/~rkyonkoski/
He lists 2 sons (and an older daughter). No ages are listed,
though. But, he does list a BS degree in 1987, so if we assume he
took 4 years and went right after high school, that would put him at
about 36 years old. Certainly reasonable that either of his sons
would be kindergarten age, though probably the younger one.
But how about the other candidates? Allen S. I'm fairly confident is
England, and Jim-Bob, I'll go with you that Eric Hunter is Russia. A
bit of circumstancial evidence - Eric Hunter signed on to the over
1300 JDPR game (NZMB:gutsy) - perhaps he sees the writing on the wall
that his game in titleist is soon to be over? It's by no means
conclusive, but I would think that someone who was expecting to be in
titleist for awhile would concentrate most of his diploming on that?
A thought anyways... Let's say Roger is France - did Doug ever
confirm that Rich O. was Austria?
That leaves GIT and Ken Lofgren, Randy Hudson, and Jeff Stephens.
I did some home page guessing based on the email address used on the
YARS ratings and came up with
http://www.aracnet.com/~jis/ for Jeff Stephens - no mention of a
family.
http://www.santarosa.edu/~klofgren/index.html for Ken Lofgren - he
mentions one daughter.
No luck in finding Randy Hudson - well, I found some, but since it's
such a common name, I'm not sure I found the RIGHT one.
If we're doing this mastermind style, it should be relatively
trivial, as with only 3 powers left, there are only 6 possibilities.
dan.
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
Another thought:
> How about, Lvn-StP, GoB-Swe, StP/SC-Fin?
Followed by Swe S StP-Fin, Disband RF Fin. This would let me build
a third Army to use in the south. The other alternative is for you to move
Lvn-StP, and then I dislodge it, and you disband it, and rebuild in Germany,
(either a Fleet to attack England, or an Army to attack France.)
Nick.
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
Any new developments? I am very willing to talk
specifics with you, when you are ready.
Have you had any luck with Russia? I know that it can be
difficult to get him to do what you want him to do. I
have had some frustrating moments earlier in the game. I
found that it helps to ask something reasonable :-) That
does not always work, because he and I differed in our
opinions of reasonable, but I stopped trying to convince
him to do the unreasonable :-)
Speaking of unreasonable, how are your discussions going
with England? I hope poorly :-) I tell you what, write
to me every time you write to England and then you can
get a fair assessment of whom you can best work with. If
I lose that assessment, so be it. At least I will accept
that I had a fair shot and lost out.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
How goes things?
Have you had many discussions with Germany and Russia? I
tend to hear often from Russia, but not so much this
season. I suspect that you are keeping him busy? :-) I
typically hear little from Germany. This season, I get
spurts of messages (two is plural right?) and then
silence. But that is typical.
If people are trying to convince you to attack me, and
you are wavering, at least let me know. I deserve a shot
at convincing you otherwise. :-)
Until then, stay patient, do not stab France, look
forward to your tournament victory.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Have things settled down at work? I was hoping to hear
from you. You promised me a letter when you had the
time. I think you were planning to agree to stop your
attack on France. I hope that you actually wrote that
and I was not dreaming that I read it.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Italy to France
>
> Have you had many discussions with Germany and Russia?
No. Nor England. Oddly, the person I've had the most discussion with is
Turkey. You're a close second.
> I tend to hear often from Russia, but not so much this
> season. I suspect that you are keeping him busy? :-)
>
He must be keeping himself busy. Haven't heard from him since the
adjustments came down.
> I typically hear little from Germany. This season, I get
> spurts of messages (two is plural right?) and then
> silence. But that is typical.
>
Germany told me he is deep in negotiations with England & yourself and has
yet to determine which way he'll swing. He told me he'll let me know but to
expect a request to support an English fleet to the MAO. So, I'm waiting.
I suspect the English 'disaster' is slowing communications between he and
England.
> If people are trying to convince you to attack me, and
> you are wavering, at least let me know. I deserve a shot
> at convincing you otherwise. :-)
>
They will have a much tougher time convincing me to attack you as you will
have convincing me otherwise.
> Until then, stay patient, do not stab France, look
> forward to your tournament victory.
>
My tourney victory is a long, long, long way away. Whatever happens, I will
be able to say I gave it my best shot.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
Thank you for your message!
>He told me he'll let me know but to expect
>a request to support an English fleet to the MAO.
I hope that you will decline this. I expect that you
will tell them the truth, so you can keep up your
credibility with them. I will not ask you to agree and
then simply not do it.
What do you think about this logic:
If you told Germany now that you would not support
England to the MAO, no matter what. That might swing his
decision over to work with me rather than England. Make
sure to tell him that it is not a long term statement
that you would never attack me (if such a thing is even
possible in Diplomacy any way :-) but that for now, you
value your peace with France and do not wish to disturb
it.
Do you think that this would help swing him over to my
side? As long as you add the long term statement, it is
not likely to backfire and push E&G closer? I desire
your comments.
--Prince Boar
PS: Let me stand in your shadow as a small member of a
the draw, or as a survivor in your victory. It would
mean so much to me. The Dauphin has allowed our sister
to escape from the Convent. If you two start dating, it
would be natural for me to be a minor functionary in your
glorious government :-)
Message from Russia to all
"St. Petersburg Pravda"
January, 1905
"Economy Still Stagnant"
The economic malaise which has plagued Russia
since 1902 continues unabated. The employment crisis
in Sevastopol has worsened as a result of the Turkish
4th Army's failure to return to Rumania. Foreign
Ministry sources reveal that Turkish representatives
repeatedly pledged to vacate Sevastopol last Fall.
The Bolsheviks continue to demand structural reforms
of the EEU and the Russian government, and still
threaten revolution if these changes are not made.
Czar Nicholas's standing with the people has
improved somewhat, however, both because his pledge
to destroy the Austrian 1st Cavalry was carried out
last Spring, and because of his inspired defense of
St. Petersburg last Fall. It is rumored that the
Czar himself acted as a Forward Observer, and called
down the shore bombardment of the German 4th Army in
Livonia from the bridge of the Royal Yacht, the
Standart. This shore bombardment and the harassing
attacks from the 1st Guards Division, currently
holding Warsaw, stopped the German assault in its
tracks. The German retreat from Silesia suggests
that the Czar may well be able to defend St.
Petersburg indefinitely, but without economic growth,
it seems Russia is doomed.
Message from England to all
I'm finally back in the office at 1:20 on Thursday. I will try to rush out
an individual e-mail to each of you now.
It was an F-1 tornado, the weakest variety. Damage to our home will be
less than $1000. Cleanup outside plus landscaping will be a few thousand
more. The worst part is that we lost a few trees that cannot be
replaced. Not too bad overall, it wasn't quite the proverbial "act of
God." One of the lesser angels must have been messing around.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia and Turkey
Ali,
Prior to your return, I had already sent Nick my version of the
events. Nick can see that your version and mine are the same in all
important respects.
I will see what I can do to get Germany to leave Russia alone so that
Russia can help defend against Italy, but I have to believe that Germany
will not give up his assault on StP.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
If Turkey does not want to give you Sevastopol now that he really needs
you, then he is crazy. If the two of you act as a single, unified nation
then Italy can be stymied and each of you will live to fight another day.
I probed Germany concerning his attitude toward you, now that Italy has a
powerful position. I asked him if he preferred (a) destroying Russia so
that he (Germany) would be free to help against Italy or (b) having Russia
around so that Russia could immediately help Turkey, before it is too
late. Germany said that he preferred the latter, and I have no reason to
doubt this.
The catch, as usual, is that Germany still wants StP now. My Germany
friend really likes to have things his way.
In the meantime, he is surely thinking of stabbing me on this particular
turn. He may or he may not. If he does I will probably throw surviving
fleets north toward Scandinavia.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Good Roberto,
I have a suggestion for you. [It is axiomatic that if everyone followed my
suggestions, I would always win.] France and I have five units each, and
the long stalemate is very good for you. You probably want to see this
continue.
My suggestion is that you announce to France and me in a joint communique a
policy of neutrality as long as the centers remain at 5-5. You will simply
hold in the Western Med. This policy would make everything right between
us after that nasty fib last fall.
Also, by doing this, you may be helping yourself. There is a very good
chance that Germany is planning to cross me this turn, and by helping
France you might only hasten his victory in the west.
If you don't do this, then I will ... I will ... hmmm, I will threaten you
with very bad threats that I cannot possibly carry out. There.
Your friend,
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>this all works for me. Oops no it doesn't. BUR could retreat to BEL.
Say! If I had a fleet in the North Sea then Nth->Bel would prevent
this. 8-) 8-) I'm smiling, I'm smiling, don't get upset.
I do find it amusing that we have been in this precise predicament
before. My "solution" then, Lon->Nth, didn't work very well. Anyway, I
promise it is still Nth-Nwg unless I hear from you begging something like
Nth-Bel.
Ivy
Message from France to all
Czar Nick wrote:
>Foreign Ministry sources reveal that Turkish
>representatives repeatedly pledged to vacate
>Sevastopol last Fall.
It is obvious that the Italians tied their shoe laces
together when they were not looking. It is one of the
oldest tricks in the book. I am shocked that the Turks
fell for it.
Ivy wrote:
>it wasn't quite the proverbial "act of
>God." One of the lesser angels must have been
>messing around.
Obviously they are punishing you for attacking France! I
suggest that you repent now.
Josephine
Sister to Prince Boar and the Dauphin
and recently released from the convent
Message from Italy to France
>
> >He told me he'll let me know but to expect
> >a request to support an English fleet to the MAO.
>
> I hope that you will decline this. I expect that you
> will tell them the truth, so you can keep up your
> credibility with them. I will not ask you to agree and
> then simply not do it.
>
Interesting development from England. He has not requested support into the
MAO. In fact, he is expecting treachery from Germany this year.
Ivy has asked that I send a joint comminique to EF committing to neutrality
as long as EF growth remains even. The bad part of his request is, he has
suggested that in order to accomplish this, I should remain in the West Med.
What are your thoughts on this new development.
>
> If you told Germany now that you would not support
> England to the MAO, no matter what. That might swing his
> decision over to work with me rather than England. Make
> sure to tell him that it is not a long term statement
> that you would never attack me (if such a thing is even
> possible in Diplomacy any way :-) but that for now, you
> value your peace with France and do not wish to disturb
> it.
>
Now, in combination with the letter I will be sending Germany, me remaining
in the WMS might not be such a bad idea. It would be more believable if I
actually could help him (as opposed to being in the TYS and having to say
something like, "Well, I can't help you right now but let me move to the WMS
and I'll help you next year." That probably would fall on deaf ears). We
both know I have no intention of helping either EG against you but they
don't know that yet.
If played correctly, you very well could have your choice of whom to team up
with.
Let me know soon so that I can properly reply to England.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Germany
>
> I am counting on getting your support of an
> English fleet to the MAO,
>
I have just heard from England and he has not requested support into the
MAO. I don't think I'll be able to follow thru on your request if England
isn't going to move there.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Sorry to hear about your problems at home. Sounds like it could have been a
lot worse; but that's little consolation when your home is threatened. I have
the same fear, since my house is close to some very tall trees which, if they
fell in the wrong direction, could cause a lot of damage. Those trees were
the most desirable feature of the lot we built on, but at the same time they
present a real concern. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that things are ok.
As for the game, I really don't have many choices other than to defend against
Italy as best I can. I'm sure to lose one this year, two if Russia takes Sev.
Hopefully he'll see that a quick Turkish death wouldn't serve Russian purposes
any.
I finally heard from Germany. He doesn't seem really happy with either GE or
GF at the moment. His big concern with you, of course, is F Nth. However, he
seems to also share our common belief that GF would be bad for him in the long
run, since he would ultimately end up just as vulnerable to French fleets as
English. It seems he's focusing his efforts on convincing Russia to give up
StP voluntarily. Naturally, I hope he does not succeed in these efforts,
since that would push Russia to take Sev to make up for it.
I've been looking at the board for some time, trying to figure out some way to
get pressure on Italy. Frankly, the only possibility I see is EF. Whether
Germany sides with England or France, by the time the western triangle is
resolved Italy will hold most of the south. Conversely, an EF would allow you
to make gains in Germany and Scandinavia, and allow France to apply real
pressure against Italy. I believe that FT cooperation against Italy would
bring Italy down quickly... *if* France were to move now. A year or two down
the road will probably be too late.
So, any chance you and France might make amends? I am, of course, writing to
France with the same suggestion.
It won't matter much from my point of view, for this turn at least, as I'll be
making the same moves either way. I'm trying to decide whether to try and
force Bul-Con, or move F Bul back to Bla for defense. I had also thought of
Arm-Ank, Sev-Arm for defensive purposes, but Russia suggests Sev-Rum makes
more sense. If you have any thoughts or suggestions, they would be most
welcome. Time permitting, of course.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
I feel compelled to write you with a suggestion, which on the one hand is
quite selfishly motivated, but on the other is also, I believe, best for
France.
The bottom line is that whether Germany allies with England or France, by the
time the western triangle is resolved Italy will hold most of the south.
Obviously that's bad for me. But it's also bad for you, since by the time you
can deal with Italy he may be too large to stop. If you and Germany finish
England quickly, you might be able to keep him from winning a solo, but he
would surely be the largest power in an IFG 3-way and would therefore take the
title. Obviously, that is something I'd very much like to avoid.
After looking at the board for some time, I can find only one way to prevent
Italy from running away with the game. Namely, an FE alliance. I know you
and Ivy have been in conflict since early in the game, but I can only hope you
both would turn things around if it's in your best interests to do so. My
personal impression is that Ivy would be much easier to work with than the
German. At least, I've found it difficult to pry any communication out of
Germany, and Ivy has reported the same frustration. Chances are, it would be
the same for you going forward.
So, any chance you and England might make amends? I've no doubt it would take
some effort, and admittedly I've got some self-interest in proposing such a
thing. But I also truly believe that it's the only way to stop Italy's strong
momentum. I'll surely be disbanding one unit this year, two if Russia takes
Sev, three if Italy also gains more than Bud. If you attack Italy now, I'm
confident that FT forces could bring him down. But even a year or two down
the road, I doubt I'll be able to be much help even with French pressure.
Another Italian fleet or two, and he can defend the Med in the west while he
still tears me a new one in the east.
I've maintained reasonably good communication with Ivy so far, and naturally
if there is anything I can do on the diplomatic end to broker an EF deal, I'd
be more than happy to do so. If on the other hand EF is not within the realm
of possibility, let me know and I'll abandon this approach. Either way, I
look forward to hearing your thoughts on the above.
Regards,
Ali
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
I think I have in hand (below) the earliest of your messages that I have
not responded to.
>Either one of us
>is very wrong, or he [Italy] is playing us both like Bach plays a
>piano.
The latter apparently. I certainly believed that Roberto was attacking you
last turn.
>The reason that your statement really surprised me is
>that it does seem obvious to me that he is only helping
>me because he wishes to stalemate our situation. As long
>as we are at war, and no one is winning, he has the time
>to do as he pleases in the south without concern for his
>other border. The reason that I was willing to trust him
>is because I felt confident that he would not take Spain,
>because he did not want you to have the advantage over
>me.
I agree with all of this.
>The person that I think Italy tight with is Germany.
I don't think so. I think Italy doesn't play favorites. He will warm up
to anyone who can help him for the moment. Then it is on to another
friend. He is very good at it, of course.
>I wish you to honest tell me how it has been working with Germany.
It's very tough. The problem is no longer lack of communication. We know
he had early problems with writing at all, but that quickly passed. The
problem, from my point of view, is the German need for absolute
security. Recall in the beginning that I invited you to build a fleet in
Brest and then accepted (invited? don't remember) its moving to the English
Channel. I was still courting two neighbors then. 8-) Germany could
never have done that. He won't take any risk if he can help it. I believe
he wildly overreacted to my North Sea move even though I thought I had
sufficient offensive and defensive reasons for that move and discussed them
with him. In his final response before I moved to the North Sea, he no
longer forbade the move. I took this, mistakenly, for grudging
permission. It's been tough going ever since then.
Unfortunately, I have always believed that a EG war would see you enter on
the side of Germany. Since you are required to say otherwise no matter
what your position, it is just about impossible for me to be persuaded
otherwise by a reading of your notes. I have had to rely on more subtle
things, which may or may not be accurate.
>If Italy manages to take out Turkey, ...
This would be very, very bad for all others. I am perfectly capable of
scrapping all plans in order to be part of a unified stop-Italy
campaign. It is a little too soon for that, but we all must watch carefully.
>If we worked together there is a chance that we could
>take out Germany fast enough to get after Italy before
>Turkey is eliminated.
Or Germany and I could take out you, or you and Germany could take out
me. All are possible.
>Italy to secure 14 centers that cannot be breached. It
>is not hard for Italy to get 2-3 more either in lower
>France or Russia. I realize that he is not there yet,
>but look at his position. He is lined up against Turkey.
> He drove a wedge between Turkey and Russia (by
>convincing Turkey to betray Russia near Sevastopol).
>Therefore he has an ally against Turkey. If I hold you
>back, what will stop him?
>
>Do you see obvious flaws in my logic?
Just the timing. Turkey has lots of resources. Russia may be helping him
as well. We are not at the danger point yet.
I am sorry that my note only replies to yours and does not break new ground.
For all sorts of reasons, my head hurts today.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England and France
Gentlemen,
By now you've both received my private suggestions that the two of you put
aside your differences and form an alliance. Naturally, I've got a fair
amount of self-interest in wanting to see pressure against Italy. However, in
reality that concern should be shared by everyone else on the board. Italy is
already the strongest power, he has not a single threat on the board, and he's
got lots of opportunity for further growth as he expands to the east.
Whether the West turns into EG vs. F or FG vs. E, it will be a while before
the western triangle is resolved. In that time, Italy will have secured the
lion's share of the south. Once he's gained a few more centers from me, and
turned them into new fleets, he'll be able to defend the Med against France
while continuing to grow in the east. Either EG or FG might be able to
prevent an outright Italian solo; but either way, Italy comes out on top.
Whatever happens, it's clear that someone in the west must take some bold
action, or Italy will run away with the game. The only way I can see to stop
Italian momentum is with French fleets; but the only way that can happen is in
alliance with England.
I hope you will consider this suggestion. I've maintained good relations with
you both, and if there's anything I can do to help broker a deal, you have but
to say the word.
Regards,
Ali
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I am sorry, but the words that I am getting from Ivy is
that he doubts that we can work together. So having your
fleet stay in the Western Mediterranean as a peace
keeping mission is not required or desired. I need to be
able to act without always worrying when that fleet might
slip into an undefended supply center. I am willing to
live with the delay caused by your retreat to Tunis or
Tyrrhenian Sea.
--Prince Boar
By the way, what was the gist of that message that you
sent to Germany? I am confused why it would make it good
for you to be in WES.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Oh come on now, if you can't tell how we feel about
working with Germany, you have not been paying much
attention.
I would have no choice to to accept an alliance with
which ever one of you is willing to sign up with me. But
I prefer that it be you, much less stressful.
Since you are making it obivous that you are not
interested, I will have to put my efforts into talking
Germany into it and deal with the stress. I hope that
you will change your mind, or at least open it up to the
possibilities. If you do, I am more than anxious to talk
with you.
For what it is worth, I understand that EF, EG, FG all
sound about the same in terms of elimination the other.
But I do have two advantages. First, I think that France
has an excellent defensive position. Second, of England
and France, I am better positioned to stop Italy when the
time is right. I give Italy a year, maybe two, before he
comes steam rolling west.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Thanks for your efforts. England followed your message
with one that pretty much tells me that it is unlikely
for him to work with me.
The difficulty that I would have is that he would have to
withdraw first. My accepting this deal without his
withdrawal would be too much of a temptation for him to
stab me and succeed quickly. The threat of holding them
back until Italy takes you out is the only thing that I
have to try and convince them to stop attacking me and
join me against the other. I would be happy to side with
Ivy, but not with all his units on my doorstep. He needs
to make the first move and then I will gladly join him.
Of course, he will counter that if he does, I am likely
to take advantage and attack him. Your arguments about
the difficulty in working with Germany should be enough
to say that I would not do that. Unfortunately, he is
not ready to accept that fact.
--Prince Boar
Message from Italy to France
>
> I am sorry, but the words that I am getting from Ivy is
> that he doubts that we can work together.
>
Hmmm, that doesn't compare to what he most recently told me. It's more
important though what he tells you than what he tells me about you.
> So having your
> fleet stay in the Western Mediterranean as a peace
> keeping mission is not required or desired. I need to be
> able to act without always worrying when that fleet might
> slip into an undefended supply center.
>
I think that was England's point. I would be there in case you attacked
him. He was assuming that EF vs G was a possibility. If I'm understanding
you correctly though, you do not see this as the main option for France.
Your preference is FG vs E, correct?
> I am willing to live with the delay caused by your
> retreat to Tunis or Tyrrhenian Sea.
>
My current order is to move to the TYS. Please don't take this discussion
the wrong way. You asked that I keep you informed of what I'm hearing from
England and Germany. I'm trying to be as open and honest as possible. I
thought the more information you knew about what your enemies were thinking,
the better able you would be to counter them. Or at least have a better
idea of which one was telling you the truth.
>
> By the way, what was the gist of that message that you
> sent to Germany? I am confused why it would make it good
> for you to be in WES.
>
I haven't written it yet. Was waiting to hear from you.
I will tell Germany that I cannot assist him this year but will re-evaluate
the situation on a season-by-season basis.
I think this is what Germany is thinking: he really wants to stab England.
If I were to support England to the MAO, it would accomplish a couple of
things for Germany. 1) England would be that much further away from his
homeland thus making it easier on Germany's attack and 2) you would be upset
with me and thus not be inclined so much to join England against him. IF I
was in the WES with the threat of supporting England to the MAO and IF
Germany thought I would make that order, it might just get him to stab
England which would be good for the both of us.
I don't blame you for being confused. I confuse myself most of the time.
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
My apologies if this is a duplicate message. I thought I sent it but did
not receive a judge confirmation. I have been known to hit that little 'X'
instead of the 'Send' button.
>
> My suggestion is that you announce to France and me in a
> joint communique a policy of neutrality as long as the
> centers remain at 5-5. You will simply hold in the
> Western Med.
>
If I altered the announcement to be that I would anchor my fleet in the TYS
on the lookout for French treachery against the peoples of England and on a
moment's notice be available to turn rudder into the WES or GOL, would that
be acceptable?
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Most certainly TYS would be fine. That is even more obvious neutrality, a
watch-and-wait policy that I would pursue in your position.
Ivy
> > My suggestion is that you announce to France and me in a
> > joint communique a policy of neutrality as long as the
> > centers remain at 5-5. You will simply hold in the
> > Western Med.
> >
>
>If I altered the announcement to be that I would anchor my fleet in the TYS
>on the lookout for French treachery against the peoples of England and on a
>moment's notice be available to turn rudder into the WES or GOL, would that
>be acceptable?
>
>Roberto
Message from Italy to England and France
Gentlemen,
After much reflection, it is time for Italy to declare its neutrality
involving any debate between your great nations. Henceforth, I will be
retreating my WMS fleet to the TYS where it will remain docked as long as
your nations remain at even strength. Upon request, the TYS fleet will be
available to assist against the aggressor if so deemed necessary.
We hope this policy meets with approval of all involved and we are certainly
willing to discuss this matter both publicly and privately.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Observer to Observer
>No luck in finding Randy Hudson - well, I found some, but since it's
>such a common name, I'm not sure I found the RIGHT one.
I believe "Randy Hudson" is a nom de guerre. Randy masks his true identity.
So even if you found a "Randy Hudson", it would not be the right one,
because he is someone else. This comes from a recollection I have of a VG
Onelist discussion of those of us who alter our true identities slightly.
Randy participated in the discussion.
Nap
_________________________________________________________________
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Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I think that I best start the discussion of specifics.
If you join me, I have all ready sent a list of initial
agreements. Long term, I am willing to only have two
fleets North of Iberia. One in the MAO, one in England.
I will probably need most of my fleets for a naval battle
in the Mediterranean, anyway.
I have already agreed to your having two fleets near the
North Sea. A third one could sit in the Gulf of Bothnia
or something.
I would want to avoid a mass of Germany armies hovering
near Burgundy. I am sure that you can say the same thing
concerning French armies near the lowlands and Ruhr.
But the key is how to cut England down to 3 centers in
one year. I think that we have a plan for that.
Bur -> Bel s by Pic and Hol. The only way this can be
stopped is by Eng -> Pic (I could take Bel from Pic, it
is guaranteed!)
Den -> Ska, GoB -> Swe, Mun -> Kie.
I agree to attack the Channel. The only way that you can
not take Norway is if England moves NAO -> NwS. This is
not going to happen as he and I are not even close to
trusting one another.
Do you really think that the two of you could cut France
down to 3 centers in one year? I suppose you might if
you guessed well and you two tricked me completely. I am
a little worried about your knowing my orders. I will
probably play it careful a bit. But if I am going to
have any chance at doing anything other than a long
stalemate with a likely death in the end, I have to do
something now. I think that if you assessed your
situation honestly, you would think the same thing.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to France
I am overloaded, very tired, and need to go to bed. So
this will be very short.
Bascially I spent last year try to deny the English any
of my centers. As I stated in earlier messages, I risk
centers for Germany trying to minimized the odds for
England. Luckily the English move to the North Sea
caused Germany to pull out of France. I tried to get
Germany to then turn on England, but he would not do so.
He preferred to play defensive, as did England.
This year, my plan is to try and get one of England or
Germany to turn on the other. I am willing to accept
which ever one will do it. I am try to point out the
threat of Italy getting too large to be beat back down.
He would eventually be the largest power, hence the
winner of the tournament. I think that it actually true,
but do not think that either of them see it.
If I had a preference it would be to work with Germany.
This is for purely strategic issues. England would get
more centers from Germany and I and then have all these
extra forces with nothing to do. If I was facing Italy,
he could stab me much easier than Germany could. I think
that Germany should be making the same assessment and
prefer me, but he cannot seem to see it that way. Sure I
am biased, but I think not so much that I cannot make an
objective observation.
I do not yet know my orders for this season. I wait on
Germany. If he does say he agrees to work with me, I
will have a big risk. The moves that I would have to
order would be risky in that he and England could use
them against me. I am not sure if I am 100% willing to
take that chance. My short term orders might be safer
"trusting" England. But my long term position seems
better with Germany. But any chance at growing larger at
the expense of my ally would work much better against
Germany than England.
more later
Message from France to all
Spring 1905 Symposium on Philosophy, Europe and
Everything.
- by Prince Xavier Boar
[This is Rece Davis here. Stuart Scott cannot make it
this year. It seems that he is stuck in Constantinople.
He was told that one can kiss girl's cheeks all you want
in Italian territory. I told him he was jumping the gun,
that the Italian are not in control there. But he
believe those anonymous reports floating around about
Italian relief efforts to Turkey. Any way, he tried to
kiss one to many girls and ended up in a Turkish court.
When he did not like the size of his fine/bribe, he
turned around and told the judge that he could kiss these
cheeks. Well he is currently cooling off in jail and who
knows when he will be back. I am filling in for him on
rather short notice I might add.]
[So is Italy starting too look like Barry Bonds or what?
Turkey might be considered Sosa because like the Cubs
they tease you with greatness and then peeter out in the
end.]
{silently….What? Oh, ok}
[It seems that I am supposed to be talking about this
symposium and not baseball. So, let's role the clip of
the uncensored parts of Prince Bore's speech.]
{silently, what, Boar? Hey I call them like I see them.
Oh OK!}
[Rather Prince Boar's speech]
My dear people. I hope that you have enjoyed our
celebrations. We have successfully repelled the English
and Germany invaders from our homeland and the
Mid-Atlantic Ocean. It is indeed a time for rejoicing.
We have had so little to celebrate, that I hate to bring
you back to reality, but the crisis is not beyond us.
Plenty of forces still are massed at our borders. But
rest assured that the Dauphin and I are doing everything
that we can to improve our situation, both diplomatically
and militarily. We hope for the best but are still
determined to deal with the worst.
We do wish to thank our Italian neighbors for their
critical assistance. We truly express our gratitude. It
will long be remembered. I ask you to let the Italians
join in our celebrations and then wish them a safe trip
home.
[The prince acts like they just won the Stanley Cup for
something. I supposed they are just happy that things
are not worse. Is it a turning point in French history
or just the eye of the hurricane? Hey an weather
analogy. I may have a career on the Weather Channel if
this ESPN gig every goes sour! Oh, here is the part
about Philosophy. All I can say is that I was suffering
just listening to it.]
Philosophy
Today's lecture is on the philosophy of the Budha. I
find it appropriate as Budha believed that "the weight of
suffering that goes on it the world is unbearable. For
every living thing: birth, suffering, death." Well the
French people have certainly had their share of
suffering. Are we through with our suffering or like
Budha suggest, will the wheel turn again to birth,
suffering, death?
Budha's first truth is that existence is suffering. The
French people, as well as the Russia, Austrian, and
perhaps the Turkish people certainly know this. The
Austrians have already gone the way of the Budha and
completed the circle with their death. We hope they find
their Nirvana. Budha's second truth is that our pain and
suffering are caused by what we perceive to be our needs
and cravings. His third truth is that we can eliminate
our pain if we eliminate our needs and cravings. We
offer this advice to the English. Your needs and
cravings for French centers are causing your pain and
suffering. You must let go these cravings and your pain
will disappear. The Germans can certain heed this advice
as well, if they crave French centers.
Budha's philosophy, or the way of the Budha, is that life
is brief and painful, birth is evil, death is release;
and the best way to live is to fall out of live with life
and develop a state of mind that will provide an
authentic experience of peace and joy. I truly wish this
blessing on us all
[Like I said, suffering man, suffering.]
[Reece]
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar (et al),
Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your explanation, and I understand
your position. I'm glad you don't take my presses amiss. I enjoy this game
too much, I think, and I have in the past made the mistake of sending too
much press, to which some players seem to take exception. And there are
certainly players out there who resent others meddling in their affairs.
But, as you say, that's what the game is all about.
I can only hope Ivy replies with as reasonable a response. I have not heard
from him yet. I've been encouraging him against Germany since the start of
the S1904 diplomacy phase, but he remains cool to the idea. What can one
do, but continue the attempt? Who knows what will come of it. In any case,
I saw no harm in attempting to repay my diplomatic debts to France.
Best of luck in the coming result, and may Buddha's compassion go with you.
Ali
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Sorry to hear about the torando, but I'm glad your home wasn't too
>badly damaged.
It's OK, but the damage to the property is slowly sinking in and affecting me.
> He claims his lack of support so far is all Italy's fault, but he's been
>the one promising the orders and then changing them without telling me, so I
>really don't buy the, 'Italy made me do it!', line.
Right.
>If he moves out of Sev
>this year, then I'll work with him,
He tells me that he is moving out.
>if not, I'll demand the Lion's share of
>Turkey from Italy for my cooperation against Ali.
My worry is that Italy does not need your help at all. He might get
everything he wants, including the entire game if he is not opposed.
> He's considering Lvn-StP-Nwy, but hasn't committed to it.
Please clarify. I don't understand what "Lvn-StP-Nwy" means. there must
be a typo in there. Also, how do you know this?
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
Ah yes, now I see. If you move to Finland, then Liv->StP->Nwy really does
make sense. Of course, it also gives Germany the option of staying in StP
if he chooses.
Ivy
Message from England to France and Russia
Dauphin & Nick,
I am prepared to move against Germany now. Three reasons -- 1) Germany has
a much too juicy opportunity to stab me this turn if I make the moves that
I am supposed to make, 2) I am not getting anywhere anyway, even if Germany
makes the moves that he is supposed to make, and 3) Italy. In short, I
have little to lose, even if the Dauphin takes advantage of the situation
and throws in with Germany.
If the three of us combine against Germany, his demise should easily be
fast enough to prevent Italy from winning unimpeded.
Now, all I have to do this morning is teach some sleepy Engineers, talk to
the insurance adjuster, meet with the tree remover, and of course, conquer
Europe.
For starters, if Germany is telling the truth, he will double-attack
Burgundy. If not, he will double-attack Belgium. He won't attack
both. So Belgium can support Burgundy, and I hope I can receive support
from France in return. My fleets will go against Germany in a manner yet
undetermined, and the French fleets can do whatever the Dauphin deems to be
in his best interests.
Off to class. More later when I find a minute.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
>Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
> >If he moves out of Sev
> >this year, then I'll work with him,
>
>He tells me that he is moving out.
Yeah, but he told me he was supporting me into Bud
in '03, and that he was moving out of Sev in '04. At
this point I'll believe it when I see it, and not before.
>My worry is that Italy does not need your help at all. He might get
>everything he wants, including the entire game if he is not opposed.
This may be true, but I see no reason to devote my
Units to stopping him if I'm going to be stuck on two or
three Centers for the rest of the game. Without growth,
my chances of a draw, let alone a win, are very small,
and if I can't count on Turkey to do what he says he's
going to do when it's in his own best interest, how can
I count on him to support things that are good for me?
>I don't understand what "Lvn-StP-Nwy" means.
Sorry, shorthand. GA Lvn-StP this Spring,
followed by GA StP-Nwy this Fall.
> Also, how do you know this?
He's trying to get me to commit to attacking
Italy, and I refuse to head South while he's in Lvn.
I suggested GoB C Lvn-Swe this Spring, but he didn't
like that. We're discussing GoB-Swe, StP-Fin, Lvn-StP
now. From there he has the option for Swe S StP-Nwy,
or Swe S StP-Fin to allow me to disband my Fleet,
build an Army, and send it south, or my moving War-Lvn,
Ukr-Mos in the Spring, and destroying his Army so that
he can rebuild it and use the new build against you,
France, or Italy. He still favors taking StP, though.
Nick.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
France is very pleased to hear of your decision. We
certainly hope that it is true! We will be conservative
(in case it isn't true), but will not act to try and take
advantage of it (in case it is true).
Any new builds France shall place in the Mediterranean to
combat the Italians. How do we go about assuring that I
have that resource?
We also need to eventually talk about how to keep most
your forces busy at the other corner so I can utilize
most of my force in the Mediterranean. I am sure that
two reasonable people can work it out.
We can talk about details for our armies later in the
day.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>Any new builds France shall place in the Mediterranean to
>combat the Italians. How do we go about assuring that I
>have that resource?
It's not easy. Only Munich and possibly Belgium appear to be
available. But then a six or seven center France will be as strong as
England, and I can't do better than that. For this turn in particular,
when there is little trust between us, I can't think of anything better
than mutual support between Belgium and Burgundy. Germany will attack one
of these.
Afterwards, when you see my fleets moving north, we can use our three
armies against Ruhr and then Munich. Germany can defend on land only at
the cost of losses farther north. He will prefer to defend in the north,
because he will be angrier at me.
>We also need to eventually talk about how to keep most
>your forces busy at the other corner so I can utilize
>most of my force in the Mediterranean.
Oh, they will be busy. Don't worry.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Wingo:
I do not know what you have in mind for your fleets. But
you could support Belgium from the Channel and then use
Belgium to support Burgundy to Ruhr. It may fail, but it
might be better than holding.
We, or I, would have to do a little soul searching, but I
may be willing to try this first step. The biggest risk
would be German forces in France if you betrayed me,
which would be inevitable anyways.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Germany to France
I'm running late for work. I'll respond this evening at length.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Russia
Nick:
How did we get from my offer of leaving MOS and WAR alone, to you
disbanding the fleet to put an army in STP? I expected you to just
dismiss my idea or negotiate how long it's hands off Mos and WAR.
We've also gotten away from what we're going to do about Italy.
Getting you to send your two armies south to help Turkey before he's
overrun was my whole point.
Turkey has told me a couple of times that he'll probably have to give
up SEV to get your help. I would assume that he's told you that.
That's where I was planning that your next build will come from.
The deadline is tonight. Are you interested in returning to our
original topic?
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Nothing much new here. Lots of talk. Nothing that really makes me want
to switch alliances. Currently I have orders in for RUHR-BUR supported
by Munich.
Fredd
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
My last message was unpolished -- they all are these days -- for my wife
was standing over my shoulder at work saying, "we need to go home, now."
>I do not know what you have in mind for your fleets. But
>you could support Belgium from the Channel and then use
>Belgium to support Burgundy to Ruhr. It may fail, but it
>might be better than holding.
OK, I can do this. I was hoping for Channel->Nth, but it's important that
Germany not destroy the army in Belgium.
>We, or I, would have to do a little soul searching, but I
>may be willing to try this first step. The biggest risk
>would be German forces in France if you betrayed me,
>which would be inevitable anyways.
Had I stayed loyal to Germany, and he to me, Burgundy would be displaced
this year, for Eng is supposed to cut Pic.
It seems to me that Picardy supp Belgium is a no-lose move for you. There
are four cases to consider depending whether or not Germany and I are, or
are not, loyal to each other. If either Germany or I turn against the
other (or both), then Burgundy is safe. If we both cooperate against you,
then Ruhr displaces Burgundy. In all four cases Picardy supp Burgundy is
meaningless.
You may have something entirely different in mind I suppose, and goodness
knows I am missing a lot of tactics in my present state of mind. However,
unless you change your mind, I will be supporting Belgium from the Channel.
Hmmm. Stay tuned, for I will also give some thought to Nth supp Bel->Hol,
leaving Belgium for you.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Wingo:
If I ordered Bur to Ruh, then I would be ordering Picardy
to Bur. I can't have Munich walking into Burgundy
unopposed and I want to put pressure on Munich, to open
up options for fall.
Perhaps this is too optimistic, but why not at least plan
for possible success.
I will wait to here more from you.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>If there's anything I can do for you on the diplomatic front, just let me
>know.
Yes. I am trying to warm up to France right now, but he is appropriately
cautious. You can tell him, with whatever sweet words that are at your
disposal, that you would rather he work with England than with Germany.
Why would he do this when an EG alliance might finish me off rather
quickly? For one, Germany is a difficult to work with. Perhaps much more
importantly for you is this: if France fights me, he will be using his
fleets for the job and will not be pressuring Italy for some time. If
France works with me, he can be used against Italy rather quickly.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
France and I are discussing my upcoming attack on Germany. He, of course
is wary. There is always the possibility that he and Germany will team up
against me instead. I won't know this in advance, but there is an
excellent chance that you will.
A France/Germany attack on England will easily succeed and Germany will
grow even bigger. That can't be very good for you. If France wants
Germany for a partner, then he may not be saying much to you about his
plans. He may be discouraging you from
He's trying to get me to commit to attacking
>Italy, and I refuse to head South while he's in Lvn.
>I suggested GoB C Lvn-Swe this Spring, but he didn't
>like that. We're discussing GoB-Swe, StP-Fin, Lvn-StP
>now. From there he has the option for Swe S StP-Nwy,
>or Swe S StP-Fin to allow me to disband my Fleet,
>build an Army, and send it south, or my moving War-Lvn,
>Ukr-Mos in the Spring, and destroying his Army so that
>he can rebuild it and use the new build against you,
>France, or Italy. He still favors taking StP, though.
Anything that lets Germany attack Norway in the fall without using the
fleet currently in Denmark is very bad for me. If Germany can enter
Den->Nth and still expect to get Belgium and Norway this year, then he has
got *both* of us.
I assume that you are pro-Russia right now, but rather indifferent to what
happens to me in the long run. I think you can serve both of us by telling
France, "Hey, England really is going to do it, isn't he." Both you and I
want a weak Germany right now. In particular, I am trying to avoid France
siding with Germany after my attack on Germany.
You can see what is going on. I think Germany is attacking me. I AM going
to be shifting my fleets toward him.
If some of this is disjointed, it is because I have so much on my mind at
present.
Anyway I am asking two things. (1) Arrange your moves to be consistent
with a three-way war on Germany and do not help Germany this turn. (2)
Help bring in France on our side, not Germany's side.
If Germany is hit from all three sides, he will decline fast enough so that
we will have time to keep Italy under control.
Please fill in the blanks in this disjointed mess of a message.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>Nothing much new here. Lots of talk. Nothing that really makes me want
>to switch alliances.
Ditto. Sort of. I am getting the usual volume of mail. France suggests
that I attack you. So does Russia. Every turn, every year.
What is different now is that Turkey is starting to sing the same song. He
wants those French fleets to go into the Med and that is only possible if I
make peace with France.
> Currently I have orders in for RUHR-BUR supported
>by Munich.
As long as you do not favor Eng s Bel->Pic in conjunction with Nth->Bel
(hint, hint), I must enter Nth->Nwg & Eng supp Bel.
Are you still sure that you do not want Nth->Nwy so it can support action
at StP in the fall?
Ivy
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Who knows, I may just be able to work something out with
England. He seems more willing, else he is setting me
up.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
So, why do you think that everyone expect me to go do
something about the big scary Italy? I have problems of
my own and you have been supportive of me.
Why should France be responsible for preventing your
victory? Your victory is rapidly becoming my goal!
Hope things are going well. I just wanted to let off
some steam.
--Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
>How did we get from my offer of leaving MOS and WAR alone, to you
>disbanding the fleet to put an army in STP? I expected you to just
>dismiss my idea or negotiate how long it's hands off Mos and WAR.
Well, given Swe S GA StP-Fin, Disband RF Fin,
I wouldn't build in StP, I'd build in War or Mos to
head south.
>Getting you to send your two armies south to help Turkey before he's
>overrun was my whole point.
Expecting me to do that while you have an Army in
Lvn or StP is, in my view, unreasonable. If you want
me to fight Italy, get your Units out of Russia, and
away from my Home Centers.
>Turkey has told me a couple of times that he'll probably have to give
>up SEV to get your help. I would assume that he's told you that.
>That's where I was planning that your next build will come from.
Yeah, and he told me in '03 that he'd support me
into Bud, and last year he said he'd vacate Sev, so
that I could move in. I'll believe it when I see it.
>The deadline is tonight. Are you interested in returning to our original
>topic?
Sure. Will you leave Russia so that I can attack
Italy? If so, how?
Nick.
Message from Italy to France
>
> So, why do you think that everyone expect me to go do
> something about the big scary Italy? I have problems of
> my own and you have been supportive of me.
>
I imagine because they can't solve their own problems by themselves. They
want you to solve their problems for them. Of course, their problems would
go away but yours would probably multiply.
> Why should France be responsible for preventing your
> victory? Your victory is rapidly becoming my goal!
>
And sharing that victory with you is rapidly becoming my goal.
> Hope things are going well. I just wanted to let off
> some steam.
>
Anytime. I'm sure the world is beating a path to your door.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Briefly because I'm pressed for time. I want,
in order:
1) Germany out of Russia.
2) A Build or two.
3) Italy weakened, or at least delayed.
Germany wants:
1) A Build.
2) The destruction of F StP/SC.
3) Italy weakened.
France wants:
1) An Ally.
2) The opportunity to grow.
I see EFR vs. G as the best way to accomplish my
goals, and NAO-Nwg, Nth-Nwy, StP/SC-Fin as the
best way to accomplish that. I don't believe
that Germany plans to attack you this turn, based
on what he's said so far, but we're still going
round about StP/GoB/Lvn.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> Briefly because I'm pressed for time.
Ditto.
>I see EFR vs. G as the best way to accomplish my
>goals, and NAO-Nwg, Nth-Nwy, StP/SC-Fin as the
>best way to accomplish that.
NAO->Nwg is going to happen. NAO-Nwy is still up in the air. The problem
is that Germany is demanding NAO->Nwg, so I fear and expect
Den->NAO. Unless France protects Belgium for me, I need Eng supp
Bel. Somehow I have to conver the North Sea. Nth->Den will do it. If
Germany is honest with me (doubtful, now. So much has changed), he will
move Den->Bal.
So NAO->Nwy would be nice, but I need help from France. It may or may not
happen. I will try to let you know.
Ivy
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
Russia appears to be moving to Finland. Russia wants Nth->Nwy. Germany
wants Nth->Nwg. I expect what Germany really wants is Den->NAO. If I need
to protect Bel with the Channel, then I cannot afford Nth->Nwy. Nth->Den
seems best then.
Also, Nth supp Bel->Hol is a loser. The expected Den->Nth cuts the
support. Not only would I not get Holland, but Belgium would be lost as well.
>If I ordered Bur to Ruh, then I would be ordering Picardy
>to Bur. I can't have Munich walking into Burgundy
>unopposed and I want to put pressure on Munich, to open
>up options for fall.
Here are some possibilities. (1) Nth->Den; Eng supp Bel; Bel supp
Bur->Ruhr; Pic->Bur (as you suggest above).
(2) Pic supp Bel; Bel supp Bur; Eng->Nth; Nth->Nwy (makes Russia happy and
might clear the Channel)
(3) Nth->Hol; Eng ->Nth; Bel supp Bur->Ruhr; Pic->Bur (Bel is safe with this)
NAO->Nwg is a given in all of this.
I will do as you ask.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> Yes. I am trying to warm up to France right now, but he is appropriately
> cautious. You can tell him, with whatever sweet words that are at your
> disposal, that you would rather he work with England than with Germany.
Believe me, I am doing my best to do just that.
> Why would he do this when an EG alliance might finish me off rather
> quickly? For one, Germany is a difficult to work with. Perhaps much more
> importantly for you is this: if France fights me, he will be using his
> fleets for the job and will not be pressuring Italy for some time. If
> France works with me, he can be used against Italy rather quickly.
Exactly the arguments I've been making. I will continue my efforts.
Ali
Message from England to Master
An End of Year confession is overdue, but my mind is mostly blank thanks to
the tornado strike on our house and yard. There was little house damage;
extensive yard damage. We lost 21 trees. Fortunately there was less than
$1000 damage to the house.
***************
What I do remember most about the past year is the Italian move that did
not occur. I cleared the Mid Atlantic so that France would get in so that
Italy could slip into Spain. This would have reduced France to four units
and then the rest would have been easy -- in theory.
But Italy lied to me, apparently to cover his lie to Turkey. Now Italy is
sitting pretty, and Turkey, who I thought was the strongest player on the
board, is in real trouble.
Not that I am in any better shape. My overall strategy is more or less
bankrupt, all because I misjudged the German response to London->North Sea
a while back.
Allen
Message from France to England
Wingo:
> I will do as you ask.
OK now, what is going on here? I am getting suspicious
now that you are being too nice :-)
Let me think about it a bit and get back to you.
What is your preference for helping Russia get Sweden
this year? Want to or do not want to?
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
That is excellent news. I've received basically the same message from Ivy,
namely that he is exploring the possibility. He asks me to continue to
encourage you to consider EF. He echoes the arguments I've already made,
particularly about Germany being difficult to work with.
If England makes pro-French promises, I would tend to believe them. He'll
have no love lost for Roberto after last fall. And I think the risks of
promising cease-fire, then stabbing, are greater than the risks of acting
pro-French. From my point of view, that would also be a betrayal of Turkey as
well as France; though that may not mean much to him on the battlefield, it
would certainly reduce his number of friends at the diplomatic level.
I realize it may not all happen overnight (or at all, for that matter). But
I'm very hopeful about the matter.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
Nwy supp Fin->Swe is OK with me in the fall, provided (1) Russia can also
hold onto StP and (2) he is willing to help me with Denmark afterwards.
As for (1), I think that this requires that he attempt War->Liv & Ukr->Mos
this spring.
As for (2), recall that long ago I became frustrated when Russia wanted
Denmark while you were supposed to get Belgium. That left me with an
impossibly narrow path between the two of you, and it was one of the major
contributing factors in my pro-German decision.
Remember, I cannot send Nth to Norway unless I have Eng->Nth. And I cannot
do this unless I get protection for Belgium from you.
So, in your decision, you may be pitting best moves for you against best
moves for Russia.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England and France
Gentlemen,
I've now received encouraging press from both of you, indicating that you are
at least exploring the possibilities of cease-fire and cooperation. So, I
write with another installation of "food for thought".
Today's chapter addresses the issue you've both raised: what if I agree to
cease hostilities, and the other guy stabs me? In my view, you've both got a
lot more to lose by making promises and breaking them, than by actually
embracing the EF.
>From England's point of view, stabbing France under a flag of truce would be
madness. At best, it might allow for one sucker-punch, then it's back to the
same old stalemate. Furthermore, I don't think anyone on the board can truly
predict what Germany will do (possibly including the German himself). If
England were to stab France right when Germany stabbed him, the result would
be disastrous.
Conversely, cooperating with France gives England better opportunity for
growth. I have long believed that England's power base is in Scandinavia and
Germany. EF is one of the strongest alliances on the board, and Germany would
not have a chance, especially with Russia kept alive on his flanks. England's
fleets would ensure the day for him in Scandinavia, giving him access to the
Baltic region and the eastern half of the board.
Likewise from France's point of view, a stab would offer little reward. At
most, if he can be sure of the German, he might gain Belgium. But German
armies are massed on the Maginot line, so that isn't very secure for France.
In terms of hurting England, it might eliminate England's army, but that does
nothing to get English fleets out of his face, so it would be a very
short-term gain. And meanwhile, a 600 pound gorilla grows ever stronger at
his backside.
Conversely, by cooperating with England, France can address the growing threat
to his south. France's gain of Munich will mean he can get armies around the
other side of Switzerland, giving him that much better opportunity against
Italy. France need not fear that Turkey will contest him for Italian centers,
since Turkey is (and will remain) feet-weak. But Italy could not withstand
pressure from both sides, if it happens soon, so Italy and the Med would
quickly belong to France.
Finally, you both share a common risk by stabbing, and that is a serious loss
of diplomatic credibility. Certainly, a stab by either of you under the flag
of truce would be a betrayal of Turkey as well as the victim. Such a stab, on
either part, would leave one of two possibilities: either Italy becomes so
strong that he cannot be stopped, or else the victor will need me as an ally
on Italy's other side. Unfortunately, continued EF conflict will mean I'll be
out of the picture, or else too weak to be of any real use, by the time the
conflict ended.
I realize that Rome wasn't built (nor defeated) in a day. My impression from
you both is that you're cautiously exploring the possibilities, but each of
you is worried he'll be betrayed. I truly believe you'd both have more to
lose by stabbing after making promises of cease-fire. And, you've both got a
lot to gain by turning this game on its head and collectively taking control
of the West.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from England to France and Turkey
>Finally, you both share a common risk by stabbing, and that is a serious loss
>of diplomatic credibility.
Sorry, but this one made me laugh. Look what lies and loss of diplomatic
credibility has done for Italy.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England and France
> >Finally, you both share a common risk by stabbing, and that is a serious
loss
> >of diplomatic credibility.
>
> Sorry, but this one made me laugh. Look what lies and loss of diplomatic
> credibility has done for Italy.
What it benefits Italy in the long run is up to the two of you. If the you
play into his hands by continuing in conflict, then you're right. But if, on
the other hand, you turn things around and join forces, then Italy's betrayals
will ultimately have caused his demise. The choice is yours.
My belief is that one has to be very careful of burning bridges in this game.
My betrayal of Russia was my biggest mistake so far, worse even than
over-trusting Italy. My point is that if either of you promises peace now,
then stabs, there will be very little chance for re-negotiation later.
Ali
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Well at least I can provide entertainment value. ;^)
I realize I may be barking up the wrong tree, so to speak, but I do see EF as
the only thing that can prevent Roberto from running away from the game. And
to the degree that my suggestions may help alleviate French aggression, I
don't see how it can hurt.
Ali
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Bur -> Ruh seems doomed to failure. It might be
important to bounce Ruh -> Mun, but if Germany would
bemaking that order, I doubt he would hit Bel to break
its support for Burgundy. Therefore, Bur should be safe,
if you following through.
Bur -> Ruh only works if Germany orders Ruh -> Bel s by
Hol. Since I have no idea what Germany will actually do,
I am not inclined to waste our joint opportunity costs
elsewhere. In other words the movement of your fleets to
Norway or even Helgoland Bight have a higher probability
of success. :-)
Also, Germany may simply support Ruh from Mun and "offer"
to support me to Belgium. Therefore, Bur -> Ruh is very
unlikely to work.
Therefore, I think it best that we order Pic s Bel, Bel s
Bur, Eng -> Nth, Nth -> ?
I prefer the Bight, it really opens up many options. But
I know that you will need to keep Russia happy so you may
end up in Norway. So the big winner in our truce is....
Russia of course! ;-)
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to France
I have decided to take a chance and go with England. But
I will basically make conservative orders, all holds or
supports. It has the advantage of not being antagonistic
to Germany if does not attack me. (Well, aside from the
support for Belgium, but that is passive and not active.)
If England orders as promised, things could work out in
the future.
If Germany sends me a note at the last minute saying that
he is siding with me, I could easily take Belgium, if
Germany follows through. The problem will be do I want
to work with Germany or England? England would be easier
to work with, but in the end more dangerous. At least a
viable Russia might make England less dangerous.
I guess I have until tonight to change my mind.
Roger
Message from Turkey to Germany
Fredd,
Thanks for your explanation. I certainly understand your position. Whatever
you decide, I hope things can be resolved quickly so that someone is able to
pressure Italy. I have entered orders to vacate Sev to appease Russia, and I
can only hope for his ultimate cooperation. However, I've betrayed him three
times now, and I cannot believe he holds Turkish interests dear to his heart.
However, at this point it's my only chance.
I hope you are giving thought to moving to Tyr. I expect Bud to retreat to
Galicia, so if you gain Tyr I can (and will) support you to Vie. And if Italy
does move to Tyr, I'd think you'd be much better off having bounced him.
Either way, best of luck in the result.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
My orders are confirmed. I am trying Sev-Rum. The last I heard from Germany
was that he's trying to talk you into giving up StP voluntarily, and that he
hadn't yet decided whether to go with England or France. Not much
information, but it's all I've got. Best of luck in the result; you'll have
no trouble from me.
Ali
Message from England to France and Turkey
> > >Finally, you both share a common risk by stabbing, and that is a serious
>loss
> > >of diplomatic credibility.
> >
> > Sorry, but this one made me laugh. Look what lies and loss of diplomatic
> > credibility has done for Italy.
>My belief is that one has to be very careful of burning bridges in this game.
>My betrayal of Russia was my biggest mistake so far, worse even than
>over-trusting Italy. My point is that if either of you promises peace now,
>then stabs, there will be very little chance for re-negotiation later.
Surely you know that my reply was not entirely serious. But, to be serious
now, I suspect that Italy has burned his diplomatic credibility a little
too soon. He has a great position, but it is far from a winning
position. Yet, I can't imagine anyone ever again believing Italy in a
situation in which he has something to gain by lying.
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>Message from England to France and Russia in 'titleist':
>I am prepared to move against Germany now.
About time...
It's your choice to make, obviously, but I'd reccomend
supporting Bel, and moving Por-Spa/SC with support.
Nick.
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>Bur -> Ruh seems doomed to failure.
I think so.
> It might be
>important to bounce Ruh -> Mun,
I give Ruh-> Mun about a 40% chance of occurring -- the chance that Germany
does not try to stab on this turn.
>Therefore, I think it best that we order Pic s Bel, Bel s
>Bur, Eng -> Nth, Nth -> ?
>
>I prefer the Bight, it really opens up many options. But
>I know that you will need to keep Russia happy so you may
>end up in Norway. So the big winner in our truce is....
>Russia of course! ;-)
I will strongly consider the Bight. If Russia convinces me that his moves
really will cost Germany a unit if I am in Norway, then I will go
there. Otherwise the Bight. In any event I will inform you. I also have
Bel supp Bur, Eng->Nth, NAO-Nwg, and IRI->?.
Not sure of IRI, either hold or Eng or NAO.
Domestic responsibilities may have me away from the computer for 2-3 hours now.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I have to choose between Nth->Bight or Nth->Nwy. France prefers the
former, but can live with the latter.
Here is what it comes down to. Do you have a set of moves in mind that
gives you Sweden in addition to keeping StP, i.e. a set of moves that
causes Germany to lose a unit this year? If so, what are they? Will
StP->Fin, War->Liv, Ukr->Mos do the job?
I will look at these moves myself this evening and see if I think they will
work. Without some confidence in those moves or others that you propose,
Nth->Bight looks fairly effective to me.
Also, if you get Sweden, I want your help into Denmark afterwards. Please?
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England and France
> Surely you know that my reply was not entirely serious. But, to be serious
> now, I suspect that Italy has burned his diplomatic credibility a little
> too soon. He has a great position, but it is far from a winning
> position. Yet, I can't imagine anyone ever again believing Italy in a
> situation in which he has something to gain by lying.
Roberto has used his foreknowledge of his ally's moves to make an effective
stab in every year of this game so far, save the first. I'm astonished at how
successful he's been with this approch, but it hasn't left him many active
allies. My hope and belief is that in the long run, this will be his undoing.
But as you point out, it's left him in great position. His stabs certainly
been effective. Eight centers is, of course, never a winning position. But
eight centers without any serious threats or opposition is a pretty good
formula for success. As to whether Roberto will hang on his own diplomatic
rope, well, that's what I'm talking to you guys for!
Regards,
Ali
Message from Russia to England
>Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>Do you have a set of moves in mind that
>gives you Sweden in addition to keeping StP
>Will StP->Fin, War->Liv, Ukr->Mos do the job?
I believe so. Obviously, it depends on what
Germany does in the Spring, but I ought to be able
to retake StP, and take Swe. I'm making those moves
no matter what you do, since they do let me hold on
to StP, no matter what.
>Also, if you get Sweden, I want your help into Denmark afterwards. Please?
Of course.
Nick.
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
I am prepared to give trusting England another try. But like Italy to
you, he betrays me twice and he will forever be doomed as untrustworthy
and unbelievable.
Thanks for you help.
--Prince Boar
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
Excellent news. If he makes promises to you and breaks them, I will truly be
surprised. And if that occurs, I certainly understand it will have been his
last chance. It is my sincere hope and desire that my diplomatic efforts will
prove beneficial to France.
Ali
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>>Do you have a set of moves in mind that
>>gives you Sweden in addition to keeping StP
>>Will StP->Fin, War->Liv, Ukr->Mos do the job?
>
> I believe so. Obviously, it depends on what
>Germany does in the Spring, but I ought to be able
>to retake StP, and take Swe.
I looked at the position. You obviously get StP back, but wouldn't Den
supp Sweden easily protect Sweden? I am assuming Bothnia->Sweden.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Wingo:
>Not sure of IRI, either hold or Eng or NAO.
This goes without saying. I fully accept that IRI will do some random
defensive thing. That keeps me from trying to sneak by you. But as I
have said, I will remain defensive and not try to take advantage of this
opportunity. But do what you think best with IRI.
As for the decision on Bur -> Ruh, I am glad that we agree. I though
that my reasoning was reasonable, but wanted to hear what you thought.
I look forward to a new relationship with England. For the record, Pic
will support Belgium and no other unit will do anything offensive to
you.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from England to France and Russia
Gentlemen,
Unless persuaded otherwise (before 10pm eastern) I am moving Nth->Norway.
I doubt that we can get Sweden this fall, for it can be protected by
Germany's two fleets, but I may need my fleet to protect Norway if Germany
has units in Sweden and Stp, which seems quite possible.
Ivy
Message from Germany to England
> Are you still sure that you do not want Nth->Nwy so it
> can support action at StP in the fall?
I had thought that we had ruled that out. But you're right it would be
back on the table again. I'll leave that up to you. I can see your
hesitation is moving there as EDI would be wide open.
Interesting enough Ali also mentioned siding with France would allow him
to drop some fleets in the Med. (That is ME sideing with France.)
Every angle is being played here. You'd think something was at stake.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Russia
> >The deadline is tonight. Are you interested in returning to our original
> >topic?
>
> Sure. Will you leave Russia so that I can attack
> Italy? If so, how?
The original topic was I offered to leave WAR and MOS alone (for an
unspecified period of time) in exchange for you giving up STP to me.
Freddd
Message from Germany to Turkey
I'd say that your assessment of Russia is correct. As he said, he'll
believe it when he sees it.
Now I remember why I stopped working with him. I've been trying to
make a deal where he can swing both of his armies south to help you.
Nothing going so far. Every press from him is a little different than
that last. We started out with me offering to leave WAR and MOS alone
(basically he'd have to give up STP also) it turned into me destroying
his fleet so he could build an army. ???
I'm not confident of his help.
Fredd
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
>> Are you still sure that you do not want Nth->Nwy so it
>> can support action at StP in the fall?
>
>I had thought that we had ruled that out.
I thought that you had ruled it out because it would be too near Sweden.
>I'll leave that up to you. I can see your
>hesitation is moving there as EDI would be wide open.
Thanks for reminding me. Nevertheless, I'll think about changing it to
Nwy. Given my position and lack of progress, I don't think I have much to
lose by trusting you all the way. So, it's a maybe.
You haven't mentioned the possible NEED for assistance from Norway. Russia
can bring three units to bear on StP in the fall, even if you get in in the
spring. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no idea what he is doing this
time. He may send something toward Sevastopol (which I think Turkey is
vacating) or toward Silesia to threaten Berlin or Munich.
>Interesting enough Ali also mentioned siding with France would allow him
>to drop some fleets in the Med. (That is ME sideing with France.)
8-)
>Every angle is being played here. You'd think something was at stake.
Italy did a great job on Turkey. He should get some kind of tournament
award. Turkey went from the top position in the game to endangered in one
turn.
I can check my e-mail until about 10pm eastern.
Ivy
Message from France to England and Russia
Czar Nicholas & Ivy Wingo:
France has agreed to the moves proposed by England, at least in the
west. We do not know the exact details of those in the East. My only
comment is that let's not let Germany grow if we can help it.
Best of luck to us all.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I am inclined to give Ivy a chance. Although I will certainly be a lot
less trusting that you are, at least from what I gleaned from my
conversations with England. Do be careful.
The way the Dauphin looks at it, if England does betray us, Germany will
be the big winner, so we doubt that he will. I am glad that you will
also be benefiting from England's decision. I feel a whole lot better
working with him if I know that you will be around for the long term,
keeping him honest on the other side.
--Xavier
Message from France to all
>DATELINE: CONSTANTINOPLE
>After years of political crisis, the Turkish government
>has finally collapsed, ...etc.
This Ali Baba person seems like he needs to clean up his act. My
brothers tell me not to believe everything I read, especially when the
sources are not revealled. But really, drunken and drugged, what a
horrible waste of a life! He needs a good woman to straighten him out.
I hope that the Italians can help him out. But if not...we do have a
cousin....She is a bit homely, but would make a good housewife and is
not afraid to lash out with her tongue... If Ali surfaces, let us know.
Josephine Boar
French Department of Manners, Ettiquette, Respect, Decency and Ethics
Message from France to France
Well, given that I have not heard form Germany, again, by default I must
try to work with England.
I continue to wonder if Germany simply focusses on England and is
keeping me as a back up, so I only get sporadic press, or if he treats
England this way as well.
For the reader, it must be easy to see why I continue to dislike the
idea of working with him. He seems like a nice guy personally, but as a
Diplomacy player, I wonder how he got into this game.
Oh well, enough of a rant for now. I can always side with Germany in
the fall. But do I really want to, even if he begs ....? Not that I
expect him to beg, or even be very reasonable.
My orders stand:
Pic s Bel, per my agreement with England
Bur s Pic, just in case Germany does not attack Bur and England goes for
Pic. I it better than a hold
Por&Bre s MAO, putting all I can into hold it. Only Italy can cause me
to lose it.
This also allows me position to boot Italy from Spain if he moves there
in the spring. I suspect the reason that he wanted to hold in WES this
spring may have been that if he stole Spain in a fall turn, he would
have two moves to get more help over, and cause me to lose a unit.
Perhaps I am being too paranoid. But you cannot be too careful,
especially with this Italy :-)
France
Message [from France] to all
>Diplomacy game 'titleist' is waiting for some power's orders.
>Diplomacy game 'titleist' is waiting for some power's orders.
What is this a novice game?
I hope that I remembered to make this a grey broadcast this time
England
Message [from France] to all
>What is this a novice game?
Hey, what is going on here?
I know that the deadline said Friday, but I figured that it meant next
Tuesday!
France
Message [from Russia] to all
> Broadcast message in 'titleist':
>
> >Diplomacy game 'titleist' is waiting for some power's orders.
> >Diplomacy game 'titleist' is waiting for some power's orders.
> What is this a novice game?
Sorry, I came down with a case of (what is known in polite circles as)
"stomach flu", orders going in now.
Russia
Message from Russia to England
> Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
> >>Do you have a set of moves in mind that
> >>gives you Sweden in addition to keeping StP
> >>Will StP->Fin, War->Liv, Ukr->Mos do the job?
> >
> > I believe so. Obviously, it depends on what
> >Germany does in the Spring, but I ought to be able
> >to retake StP, and take Swe.
>
> I looked at the position. You obviously get StP back, but wouldn't Den
> supp Sweden easily protect Sweden? I am assuming Bothnia->Sweden.
I don't see Germany ordering Den-Nth, since he has refused to commit
to taking Nwy in the Fall, so if you order Eng-Nth, and then Nth-Den to cut
support, Swe falls.
Nick.
England: Army Belgium SUPPORT French Army Burgundy (*cut*)
England: Fleet English Channel → North Sea (*bounce*)
England: Fleet Irish Sea HOLD
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean → Norwegian Sea
England: Fleet North Sea → Norway
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Picardy
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean HOLD
France: Army Picardy SUPPORT English Army Belgium
France: Fleet Portugal SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Germany: Fleet Denmark → North Sea (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → St Petersburg (south coast)
Germany: Army Holland → Belgium (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Livonia → Moscow (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Munich → Tyrolia
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Holland → Belgium
Italy: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Greece → Bulgaria (south coast) (*cut*)
Italy: Fleet Greece → Bulgaria (south coast) (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Naples → Ionian Sea
Italy: Army Serbia → Rumania (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Trieste → Budapest
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste
Italy: Army Vienna SUPPORT Army Trieste → Budapest
Italy: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Tyrrhenian Sea
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Finland
Russia: Army Ukraine → Moscow (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw → Livonia (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Armenia → Ankara
Turkey: Army Budapest → Serbia (*bounce, dislodged*)
Turkey: Fleet Bulgaria (east coast) → Black Sea
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna → Aegean Sea (*bounce*)
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