|
|
England: Builds 2 units
France: Builds 2 units
Germany: Removes 3 units
Russia: Builds 1 unit
Message from Russia to all
>Movement results for Fall of 1907. (titleist.029)
>
>England: 8 Supply centers, 6 Units: Builds 2 units.
>France: 9 Supply centers, 7 Units: Builds 2 units.
>Germany: 0 Supply centers, 3 Units: Removes 3 units.
>Italy: 8 Supply centers, 8 Units: Builds 0 units.
>Russia: 4 Supply centers, 3 Units: Builds 1 unit.
>Turkey: 5 Supply centers, 5 Units: Builds 0 units.
Hmmm, lied to, and/or stabbed by three different Powers,
and I still gained a Center. Interesting...
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> Hmmm, lied to, and/or stabbed by three different Powers,
> and I still gained a Center. Interesting...
>
But nowhere to build unfortunately.
Germany and Turkey seem obvious decievers.
I assume England was the 3rd. What was it that he lied about?
Or was it me? Quickly checking my records, I don't think so.
Idalia
Message from Russia to Italy
>Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
> >
> > Hmmm, lied to, and/or stabbed by three different Powers,
> > and I still gained a Center. Interesting...
> >
>
>But nowhere to build unfortunately.
Yes, that's why I said I gained a Center, rather than
a build.
>Germany and Turkey seem obvious deceivers.
>I assume England was the 3rd. What was it that he lied about?
Actually, England and Turkey stabbed, while England
and France lied. England was supposed to leave Swe
and Den open, and France was supposed to go slow
against you. Ali, the fool, just stabbed, he didn't
even have the decency to lie to me.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to England and France
Gentlemen,
Well, it seems part of my predictions have come true. The two of you seem to
have forged a healthy alliance, you're both prospering well from it, and
Germany was quickly destroyed. Congratulations to you both.
Unfortunately, my Italian nemesis remains strong. I do not know why he has
decided to suicide against me, though I have some guesses. However, none of
them help me on the board. Clearly, he is counting on an eventual falling-out
between you, and is hoping that England will attack France soon.
So, I thought I'd drop you a line to encourage you both to stay the course.
There are still many centers for you both to gain by continuing to sweep
eastward. Conflict between the two of you is just as counterproductive for
both of you as it has ever been, if not more so.
Anyway, congratulations again, and I hope you will continue on in alliance
until you jointly control the remainder of the board.
Regards,
Ali
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
It's the part of Diplomacy that I hate. What do you do when you are making
moves that will disappoint someone you respect? Maintain absolute silence
for a week? That doesn't work. What else is there? You have to say
things that aren't true.
I was determined to go for Sweden and Denmark this turn and hoped to have
your blessing. But ... .
It was partly to eliminate Germany, and, yes, partly to prepare for an
attack on you. That's been the French/English plan, and as long as France
cooperated, I saw no reason to deviate.
Did you say three persons lied? Who were the other two?
Ivy
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
It sure looks like you're having a cakewalk against Italy. I'm glad to see
it. Roberto seems to be counting on the premise that he can destroy me before
you destroy him. At this rate, it looks like he may succeed. I urge you in
the strongest terms possible to continue against him, and I can only promise
to hold out as long as I can.
I repeat my message from my joint press in that I sincerely hope you and
England will continue in alliance. If you engaged in conflict with England
now, then Italy will be free to wipe me off the board. Once that happens, you
*know* he's going to try to regain his home centers. Far better for France to
eliminate him entirely, or at least drive him down to the point where he no
longer poses a significant threat to French interests.
Congratulations again, and I hope to see French armies in the center of the
board soon.
Ali
Message from England to all
Fredd,
I enjoyed our partnership. Seriously.
And we still have eight units between us!
Take care.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>It's the part of Diplomacy that I hate. What do you do when you are making
>moves that will disappoint someone you respect? You have to say
>things that aren't true.
Well, actually, you could have told me the truth.
It's not like I was in a position to stop you.
>It was partly to eliminate Germany, and, yes, partly to prepare for an
>attack on you. That's been the French/English plan, and as long as France
>cooperated, I saw no reason to deviate.
How about because there's no stalemate line between
France and England, and with Italy handing France
Centers there's no way you can match his growth, so
you'll end up losing to a French solo? Seems like
a hell of a reason to deviate to me.
>Did you say three persons lied? Who were the other two?
Actually, two people lied, and two people stabbed.
You did both, though, so in total, it was three.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Looks like it was a good thing I moved to Mos. Otherwise Russia would build
and the situation would be very different.
My situation, unfortunately, is becoming more and more hopeless. I'll be able
to defend my home centers for this year at least, but I'm sure to lose either
Sev or Mos in the meanwhile. But, I will hold on as long as I can, and will
do what I can to assist you during that time.
I do hope you and France will continue as allies, at least for another year or
two. I realize France seems to have an easy time with Italy turning over his
centers the way he is. But long-term, it looks pretty certain that Italy will
succeed in his mission to wipe me off the map. Once that happens, he will
surely come back and try to reclaim his homeland. And at that point, you'll
be holding all the cards.
In any case, if you have any thoughts on what I should do with A Mos next
year, please let me know.
Ali
Message from Turkey to Master
Turkey's EOY for 1907
Well, things certainly haven't gone my way these last few years. My moves
have not been overly inspired, but really there hasn't been much I could do.
Italy's decision to devote all his resources to me without regard for losing
his home centers is just not something I can counter. I had hoped that by
encouraging EF alliance, and getting France into the Med, I could get Italy to
back off. But that clearly hasn't happened, and there are no indications it
will happen any time soon.
I've been trying to figure out why "Roberto" is so determined to attack only
me despite French pressure. My theory, which I hope is not true, is that this
is the same person who played Italy in my round 2 game, that he's recognized
who I am, and that he's paying me back for taking the solo in that game. It
would be sad to see an otherwise good game spoiled by such suicidal
cross-gaming motivations, but the Italian from my round 2 game did promise to
come gunning for me if he found out who I was in Titleist.
At any rate, about all I can do at this point is try to hold on with both
hands, and try to keep EF moving east. I don't hold much hope for survival
any more, especially after stabbing Russia for a 3rd time. My move to Moscow
was purely motivated by the fact that England requested it, and I'm eager to
do what I can to help England offset France's easy gains in Italy.
For the next year, it looks like I'll be able to hold onto my home centers,
but I'm sure to lose Mos, Sev or both. Unless a miracle occurs... but I'm
sure not expecting it. Since Italy won't even talk to me, I really have no
tools available to counter his overwhelming numerical superiority.
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
Is there nothing I can do to get you to cease your hostilities against me? Is
there nothing I can say to convince you to even talk to me?
I *still* do not understand your motivations here. You seem to be holding out
hope that England will attack France as a result of your throwing centers to
him. But England still has lots of opportunities without even looking at
France, and I will do what little I can to keep him on that track.
It is clear that you'll be able to eliminate me before France can eliminate
you. But then what do you do, hole up in Austria and hope you never lose any
units, and that you can work your way into a 3-way? I suppose it's possible,
but I think it highly unlikely you'll be able to survive in a draw without
your homeland. And if you go back to reclaim your home centers after the fact
then (1) they'll be difficult to regain, and (2) that essentially just throws
the game to England, which doesn't do you much good does it?
If you've lost interest in the game, and have simply decided to suicide in
some spectacular way, well, I guess that's your choice. But in my opinion,
frankly, it degrades an otherwise good game, and I think it's a damn shame.
Ali
Message from Observer to Observer
It's been a while since I've commented here, but I've been watching,
as many of you have.
I don't think Italy's behavior is necessarily crazy (although it
certainly appears that way).
It could be that Italy perceives that his best chance to survive to a
draw is to eliminate Turkey while also making France a solo threat.
This sounds bizzare, but maybe Italy perceives that the EF
relationship is very strong, and can be broken only if F is lured to
become a solo threat.
What about this: France "borrows" Italian centers, preparing himself
for a massive stab on England, and Italy re-takes his home centers
gradually while also finishing off the Turk? It's unorthodox, but if
I were Italy, I'd be arguing that line at this point. That would
allow for FI or an F solo.
What about an EIR alliance? An EIRT is probably not going to happen
since Italy is so dead set on Turkish elimination. Cooperating with
R, Italy could chip away at Turkey that much more quickly, and the
Russian fleet could be put to good use against France if England was
up to it. If Eric is indeed playing Russia and Alan England, we
can't rule out this possibility. In my limited experience, Eric is
an imaginative player and Alan is open-minded. Could be an
interesting mix.
What does anyone else think?
===================
I definitely did not predict this turn of events, but it is
consistent with my guesses of the identities of the players. I
guessed that England was Alan, France was Roger, Jeff was Italy and
Eric was Russia. What they have in common is that they are
talkative, club player types. Randy and Ken are not (I've never
played with Rich Olver, but it seems that he's not a talker either).
Could it be the talkers (Alan, Roger, Jeff) have arranged for a 3-way
draw? Or maybe, with Eric's cooperation, it could be a 2-way or a
solo?
France's position is nearly unassailable at this point. It would
take a tremendous amount of effort for EI to put the kabash on French
growth, especially with Turkey still kicking around and Eric to
harass Alan in the north.
Karlis
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
Smooth sailing.
I've had no time to think about builds (probably a fleet and an army) or
moves for next year. I'll get back to you ASAP. Unfortunately I'll be
taking work home with me this evening.
Ivy
Message from Observer to Observer
From: Douglas T. Massey E-mail: masseyd@b...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There have been numerous accidental revelations of identity between
the players, so each of them is fairly certain who the others are.
:-) So I'll reveal the two eliminated powers.
Austria was Randy Hudson, and Germany was Rich Olver. Curiously
enough, these were the #7 and #6 seeds in the final -- the two players
who didn't achieve a draw or a solo in the semi-final games.
F1907M were pretty stunning moves by EF, I think. The game index
jumped from 30 to 36; I'd say that we're much closer to the endgame
than even that suggests (with Italy so wildly out of position for
any hope of expansion).
Would everyone agree that England or France is almost certain to
win at this point? Would you consider the F1907B builds *unbelievably*
important?
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------
___, IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont
\o ASICs Product Development Engineering |>
| Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 |
/ \ |
. My Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~masseyd (|)
Message from Master to all
Thank you for playing, Germany. The end came much more suddenly
than I expected! Please write up an EOG statement and "press to m"
(or broadcast, if you prefer). You can also write one at game's
end, but I'd prefer one now, if it's not too much trouble.
Doug
Message from Italy to Turkey
Have you never made an error in judgement before in a Diplomacy game?
Rhetorical question, no need to answer.
It's a damn shame I stabbed you.
It's a damn shame Germany moved to Tyrolia.
It's a damn shame France moved to the West Med.
The game is full of damn shames. In a normal Diplomacy game, you'd have a
very strong position right now as Italy would have moved to defend against
France. But, this isn't a normal Diplomacy game now is it. If you haven't
figured that out yet, you haven't been paying attention.
There was one time, and one time only, in this game that you should have
trusted me. It's a damn shame you didn't.
> Is there nothing I can do to get you to cease
> your hostilities against me?
No, not any more.
Idalia
Message from Italy to England
This message probably won't come as a surprise to you, but I'll tell you
anyway so it's on the record.
I will continue my attack against Turkey and I will not move to stop France
from taking what I leave behind. If that means he reaches 18, so be it.
I'll be happy that the game is over.
Idalia
Message from England to Italy
>This message probably won't come as a surprise to you, but I'll tell you
>anyway so it's on the record.
>
>I will continue my attack against Turkey and I will not move to stop France
>from taking what I leave behind. If that means he reaches 18, so be it.
>I'll be happy that the game is over.
Thank you for the courtesy of notifying me. I do have one question.
What do you wish to do if you are dug in at Turkey's location and France
does not yet have 18? Will you defend? Would you be interested in
fighting your way back west with the understanding that I would be handing
you some of my centers so that we could work for the natural 17-17 line?
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> What do you wish to do if you are dug in at Turkey's location
> and France does not yet have 18? Will you defend?
>
I'm not sure yet. You'll have to ask me again if the situation were to
arise. It could go either way.
If I were forced to answer today, I'd say I wouldn't defend.
Idalia
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Well, actually, you could have told me the truth.
>It's not like I was in a position to stop you.
I thought about it, but I was not thrilled with the prospect of fighting a
Germany/Russia coalition. That could have been possible for all I know.
>How about because there's no stalemate line between
>France and England, and with Italy handing France
>Centers there's no way you can match his growth, so
>you'll end up losing to a French solo? Seems like
>a hell of a reason to deviate to me.
Yeah, I know. One of the things that I will discover when reading all the
mail (gulp!) after the game is over is whether or not you and France ever
intended to slice me up if the opportunity arose. I was never confident
that you would be in my camp if France and I went to war.
Ivy
Message from Observer to Observer
> Austria was Randy Hudson, and Germany was Rich Olver. Curiously
> enough, these were the #7 and #6 seeds in the final -- the two
players
> who didn't achieve a draw or a solo in the semi-final games.
That is interesting. These identities are consistent with my
original guess, that Ken, Randy and Rich were playing Austria,
Germany and Turkey. What a lucky guess (I also picked Tina as the
winner of Survivor 2 on the first episode - maybe I should head to
Atlantic City this weekend).
> Would everyone agree that England or France is almost certain to
> win at this point?
One or both of them will definitely be the winners, whether the end
result is a solo or a draw. Like I said before, in my limited
experience, Jeff, Eric, Roger and Allen are all talkers - I can
imagine last minute coalitions being pulled off against all odds, so
I don't think a solo is guaranteed.
> Would you consider the F1907B builds *unbelievably*
> important?
Yes; if E or F don't stab, I think the game will end as either an E
or F solo. That said, I think one of them will stab. I'm looking
for F Lon and F Lpl builds for England, coupled with an intense press
blitz with Russia and Turkey to win them over so that there's no
meddling with English posessions in the north. England also should
be dipping Italy pretty heavily. If Allen is playing England, he's
certainly capable of pulling off a diplomatic coup. Then again, so
is Roger.
Karlis
Message from Turkey to Italy
Well, at least I finally got you to reply.
> There was one time, and one time only, in this game that you should have
> trusted me. It's a damn shame you didn't.
What would make me trust you after you'd stabbed me twice?
Why did everything rest on that one action?
Why do you not even care that you're losing your home centers?
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >Well, actually, you could have told me the truth.
> >It's not like I was in a position to stop you.
>
>I was not thrilled with the prospect of fighting a
>Germany/Russia coalition. That could have been possible for all I know.
Given the difficulty you had coordinating with
Germany, and the history of his invasion of Warsaw
and St. Petersburg, I can't believe you could
seriously conceive of GR vs. E.
> >How about because there's no stalemate line between
> >France and England, and with Italy handing France
> >Centers there's no way you can match his growth, so
> >you'll end up losing to a French solo? Seems like
> >a hell of a reason to deviate to me.
>
>Yeah, I know. One of the things that I will discover when reading all the
>mail (gulp!) after the game is over is whether or not you and France ever
>intended to slice me up if the opportunity arose.
I've been at 3 Centers since 1902; my focus has been
on just surviving, and punishing those Powers whom
have done me harm. (Note that Austria and Germany,
the first two Powers to attack Russia, were the first
two Powers eliminated. Do you really want to be the
third? ;^) Before this Fall, I never considered
endgame possibilities.
>I was never confident that you would be in my camp if France and I went to
>war.
Well, I'd ask you to review my letter about you
stabbing me, and then attacking France. That's
STILL possible. Hell, I'd ally with anyone, at
this point. 8-)
Nick.
Message from Italy to Turkey
>
> What would make me trust you after you'd stabbed me twice?
>
Your Diplomacy intuition that you were patting yourself on the back with
earlier in the game.
> Why did everything rest on that one action?
>
Because I said so.
> Why do you not even care that you're losing your home centers?
>
Because I don't.
Idalia
Message from Master to Italy
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>Message from [klofgren@santarosa.edu as] Italy to England in 'titleist':
>
>If I were forced to answer today, I'd say I wouldn't defend.
Is this truly your sentiment, or a negotiation tactic? If the former,
I'm a little saddened that you have so little interest left in the
game. I think we all care a little less than we did before September
11, but I didn't think it had come to this.
Or is this a reflection of the fact that the "Titleist" will be the
player with the most SC's and you don't see that as a possibility for
you now?
It's not really my business, but I am curious.
Doug
Message from Turkey to Italy
You certainly sound very bitter. Hopefully some day I'll learn why that
bitterness is directed against me. Hopefully it at least has *something* to
do with my actions in this game.
Oh, and why are you signing your letters "Idalia"? Is that supposed to be
some kind of hint? Is the Archduke now controlling Italian units? That would
explain much, I suppose.
Ali
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> Actually, England and Turkey stabbed, while England
> and France lied. England was supposed to leave Swe
> and Den open, and France was supposed to go slow
> against you.
>
Sounds like your usefullness to EF has run its course but I'm sure you knew
that would happen with the annihilation of Germany.
Idalia
Message from Italy to Master
> >
> >If I were forced to answer today, I'd say I wouldn't defend.
>
> Is this truly your sentiment, or a negotiation tactic?
>
A little of both perhaps but I'd say it leans slightly more to the latter
than the former. I see no reason why I should defend if England does
nothing to stop France from putting me in that position.
> If the former,
> I'm a little saddened that you have so little interest left in the
> game. I think we all care a little less than we did before September
> 11, but I didn't think it had come to this.
>
The truth of the matter is, I don't care the outcome of this game. It would
not bother me if the game were to end tomorrow.
Did I need more time? I'd say it's obvious I did. But how much more time
is anybody's guess. You may have had to wait years before I had the proper
frame of mind to continue as before.
I'm guessing you didn't have a 2 year old daughter to come home to that
night completely oblivious to the events of the day with her parents equally
mystified as to the type of world they were raising their only child.
Believe me, it makes you think long and hard about what life is really
about.
My sincere apologies if this turns out not to be the 'showcase' game you had
hoped for due to a suicidally deranged Italian.
Ken
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Yes, I too am very busy. I have had classes and/or
experiments for 7 work days in a row. Tomorrow is the
last day. Then of course all the meetings that have been
put off will hit on Friday. :-) I too brought work home,
I have to edit a 20 some page report rough draft. So
this will be short.
I too want to build an army in a fleet. In case we do
not get to talk, let's follow the same reasoning that we
discussed last adjustment phase.
I must admit that I think that you are in much better
position than I am. I have a 8 unit Italy which if I try
to do something about would just turn into a large
Turkey. Meanwhile you have nothing but a disjointed 3
unit Russia that was just betrayed on his backside. You
may have to exercise the same restraint that you asked of
me and be sensitive to the fact that your forces are so
much closer to my homeland than mine are to yours.
How has Nick taken your moves?
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
It was nice playing with you. It is too bad that we
never really had an opportunity to work together. After
the game we should still chat a bit about biking. Good
luck in future games and in all life's endeavors.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
Congratulation on your continued progress against Turkey.
As promised, I took only the centers which you were
taking from Turkey. What exactly is your overall plan?
It would help if you could explain it to me.
I would like to negotiation a reduction in your size,
gradually as you press further east. Are you willing to
allow me to take one more center than you take from
Turkey? I might not be so interested in that if a
portion of your forces were centered in Russia where they
were a threat to England and not all staring back at me
in the Mediterranean. Perhaps if you answer my question
above (your plan), it would help me understand if this is
reasonable.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I am really ticked at Turkey. I was going to write him
and ask him not to do that, but I did not want to put the
thought into his head if he hadn't seen it. I guess that
was naive of me to think that he would not notice. The
real problem was he did not write at all.
Ignoring what a disappointed it was to you and being
purely selfish, it hurts me in that it makes England
without any serious threats. Given Turkey's move against
you, it will be hard for you to fight England.
I am sorry for his move to Denmark. He said that he was
planning it, but I did not know if he was lying to me or
not. I wanted to tell you, but the losses (war with
England) outweighed your gains (your good will). I was
just praying that Germany would bounce him from one of
Den/Swe and that Turkey would behave. Oh well, 50%.
Now what are your plans? What is Turkey telling you? He
cannot expect to hold Sev and Mos with that single army.
He has only bought himself time. Unfortunately for him
he may be less likely to have my help now.
Write as soon as you can and I hope that I was not one of
those your counted as betraying you.
--Xavier
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
Thank you for your kind words. I hope that England and I
can keep things together. Unfortunately your move to
Moscow makes that harder. England now has nothing to
threaten him. You may have been better served giving up
that unit and then having me feel more secure so I could
have gone all out after Italy. England was always
holding me back, but with Germany gone I could have done
everything to hurt Italy. Now I have to worry about how
much to leave in defense of the potential stab by
England. I suppose that it was my fault for not
discussing it with you. Sorry for that.
As for your question on why Italy is suiciding against
you. I truly do not know, although it greatly favors me.
I think that it started as a threat to England: attack
France or I will let him grow and be dangerous. Now I
wonder if he simply wants to take your corner as a safe
haven in hopes of being in the draw.
What is your relationship/position with Russia. Is there
any chance of working with him to slow down England, or
at least allowing him to defend himself against England?
--Prince Boar
Message from France to all
I suggest that EoG statements be held private to the
end, but certainly can be sent to the master anytime.
Germany can of course broadcast anything
he chooses. I personally would like to know how
me managed all those dates in hot tubs! :-)
Seems like a more useful skill than knowing
stalemate lines!
France
Message from Germany to all
Germany EOG.
One message to cover the whole game. Boy that's a tough one, this
game has already taken much more time than I thought it would. So I'll
keep it short, or at least try.
The most important move of the game. That's easy. England going into
the North Sea. It forced me to pull back my attack on England, and to
pull out of helping England attack France. Of course, it's my belief
that that's exactly what England wanted. I was going to become too
powerful if I gobbled up Russia. Plus I believe that England had decided
that he couldn't get through France so might as well switch directions.
Every move he made from that move on was a swing of his forces toward
me. I knew it was coming, and made many attempts to counter, all to no
avail.
The most important date. Sept 11. It was during this spell that my
fate was sealed. I was pretty sure of the EF juggernaut in the west.
Therefore I needed builds right then. I approached Turkey about
supporting me against Russia, but he did not respond from Sept 11 until
the next moves processed. Obviously he didn't want to go in that
direction, but what really chapped my hide was that he spent weeks as
the silent type then he sent a message within hours of the moves
processing. I wouldn't talk to him the rest of my existence.
Friends or people that I enjoyed playing with. Nobody.
Austria and I must have exchanged 3 messages the whole game. Almost all
of my press to him went unanswered.
Italy - Decent enough except for my final move when he was supposed to
support me into WAR. Chalk up one more stab for Robbie.
Turkey - see above. What's the point of this game if you don't talk.
Russia - What a pain in the butt. Never could he be convinced of
mutually beneficial moves. Always he would go back to moves that would
solely benefit himself. This is why we fought the whole game. His last
laugh is that I'm out before him. My laugh is that he'll be gone very
very soon. I fail to see the difference.
England - I can see why he did what he did. He's much better off this
way. It'll be interesting to see if its him or France who wins.
I believe that he missed one of the best stab opportunities a little
while ago when he didn't attack France. I would have taken it.
France - Probably going to win. Playing a great game. Stalemated
Englands attack and got him to turn toward me. (I wonder how much press
it took to get England to go into the North Sea) He's also got Italy to
totally turn over his entire homeland to him. I wonder if he won't be
able to talk England into accepting 2nd place?
Fredd
Chow
richolver@home.com has resigned richolver@home.com
as Germany in game 'titleist'.
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
I think I will be building two armies and try to convoy them via Nth and Nwg.
There is a neutral zone from east to west -- Picardy, Burgundy,
Switzerland, Tyrolia, Bohemia, Galicia, Ukraine -- that almost splits the
board. I count 14 centers above that line and 19 below. [Sevastopol seems
more above than below.] Anyway, it's clear that a 17-17 split between us
will be very, very difficult. I would need to have a portion of Austria
apparently.
Let me know if you get any bright ideas.
Ivy
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>I too want to build an army in a fleet. In case we do
>not get to talk, let's follow the same reasoning that we
>discussed last adjustment phase.
I am tired and I don't remember this reasoning. My database of
correspondence is only on my work computer, so I can't check until
tomorrow.
About the same time that you wrote your note, I wrote a note to you saying
that I was now thinking of two armies. That note got queued and is just
now being sent because of some e-mail problems at my work site.
>I must admit that I think that you are in much better
>position than I am. I have a 8 unit Italy which if I try
>to do something about would just turn into a large
>Turkey.
The grass is always greener. Italy will not defend. You are taking
centers by walking into them and that will continue. It is as if there
were no armies whatsoever in front of you.
>You may have to exercise the same restraint that you asked of me
Yes, I vote for restraint too. How is this for restraint: suppose we try
to end the next year with the same number of centers? I think I can get
two centers from Russia, but if you are completely stymied, I would
restrict myself to one. [I can't decide if I should append a smiley.]
>and be sensitive to the fact that your forces are so
>much closer to my homeland than mine are to yours.
I agree with you on the homeland business. The other side of the coin ( I
slip into cliches when I am tired) is this: you are much closer to the
remaining centers than I am.
>How has Nick taken your moves?
Nick is a gentleman. I like him. He has fought valiently from a weak
position for the entire game. I hope that I can get involved in some
non-gunboat games with some of this gang so that we can get to know each
other a lot better. My last non-gunboat game was great fun. My arch enemy
and I had a wonderful correspondence about work, family (mine), girlfriend
(his), etc.
Nick is still trying to get me to stab you. He claims that you have a much
better position than I do. 8-)
Ivy
Message from Germany to all
> Broadcast message from France in 'titleist':
>
> I suggest that EoG statements be held private to the
> end, but certainly can be sent to the master anytime.
Ya gotta love it. The person who has sent out more press than anyone
whom I've ever played against, wants to be a censor.
What could any EOG message say that hasn't been said in private many
times?
I thought I'd do it now. I doubt if I'll care at the end. This game lost
it's importance for me about 6 weeks ago. Not that I think there should
be an asterick after the winners name. The winner (who ever it is) will
have certainly earned the title.
Stab you later
I'm looking at getting my own hot tub ;-)
Freddy
Message from Italy to France
> Congratulation on your continued progress against Turkey.
> As promised, I took only the centers which you were
> taking from Turkey.
>
Quite frankly, you got lucky unless you knew Turkey would be moving to
Moscow. Had Turkey defended Rumania, I would have to disband and I probably
wouldn't be replying to this message. But, since I don't have to disband, I
won't hold it against you.
> What exactly is your overall plan?
To make sure than England does not win. He has consistently spread blatant
lies about my intentions and has suggested pathetically poor tactical
manuevers throughout the game (wes-spa/sc was one fine example). In my
mind, he has not negotiated in good faith. You wouldn't believe the latest
if you read it yourself. I'll paraphrase:
If you're holed up in Turkey, will you be willing to fight your
way west under the assumption that I [England] would be giving
you my centers towards the natural 17/17 stalemate line.
Uhhh, yeah right.
> It would help if you could explain it to me.
I hope that explains it well enough. Bottom line, I want you to win this
game as the most deserving participant. God knows, I don't deserve to win.
But I would settle for anybody but England.
> I would like to negotiation a reduction in your size,
> gradually as you press further east.
Careful here. A reduction in my size begins to let Turkey off the hook and
gives me less opportunity to hit Northern Russia. However, I could probably
afford to pull the EAS fleet if I had to.
> Are you willing to allow me to take one more center than you take from
> Turkey? I might not be so interested in that if a
> portion of your forces were centered in Russia where they
> were a threat to England and not all staring back at me
> in the Mediterranean.
I'd be happy to position my units whereever you like as long as Turkey's
elimination was the immediate goal.
I was thinking something like:
eas - syr
ion - eas
aeg s ion - eas
In the fall, you could support syr-smy. In return, you could take one of my
centers. We can discuss the second center you talked about in the fall.
Idalia
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
> I am really ticked at Turkey. I was going to write him
> and ask him not to do that, but I did not want to put the
> thought into his head if he hadn't seen it. I guess that
> was naive of me to think that he would not notice. The
> real problem was he did not write at all.
I'm sure you're not nearly as mad at him as I am. ;^}
I assumed he had noticed, and offered to tap Gal, so that
he could retake Rum, but I also assumed that he would
realize that at best it would delay his death by only a year
or two, and at worse make me side with Italy, and hasten
his demise. It was a phenomenally dumb move, in my
opinion, but then I seem blessed with opponents who
make those sorts of attacks on me in this game.
> Ignoring what a disappointed it was to you and being
> purely selfish, it hurts me in that it makes England
> without any serious threats. Given Turkey's move
> against you, it will be hard for you to fight England.
Well, at this point, my inclination is to order, War-Mos,
and let my German forces remain in Germany to work
with whomever makes me the best offer. There is no EF
stalemate line, and given Italy's behavior, you have and
will likely continue to have the advantage, so it's just a
question of does England stab you before you begin your
solo push, or not?
> Now what are your plans? What is Turkey telling you?
> He cannot expect to hold Sev and Mos with that single
> army. He has only bought himself time. Unfortunately
> for him he may be less likely to have my help now.
I'll be talking to everyone while you and Ivy are
deciding on your builds. Turkey hasn't written or replied
to my letters in some time, though I haven't written to him
since these moves came through. He's lost any chance of
my help, as well. 8-)
> Write as soon as you can and I hope that I was not one
> of those your counted as betraying you.
Well, you did lie to me about going slow in Italy, and
I guess in the bigger sense regarding the EF plan once
Germany was eliminated, but I don't really see that as a
betrayal. You may have convinced Ivy that if he attacked
me, you'd continue to work with him and not take the solo
he is handing you, but he's still the one who attacked, and
he should be able to look at the position, and realize that
he needed me strong as much or more than you did.
Nick.
Message from Russia to Italy
> Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
> Sounds like your usefullness to EF has run its course but I'm sure
> you knew that would happen with the annihilation of Germany.
Actually, I expected them to keep me strong in hopes of gaining
my help when the EF conflict flared up again. I guess England
feared I'd aid France, rather than him. Of course, now I will, so
I'm not sure he's gained that much. Stabbing an ally for just a
Center or two is usually a bad idea. *shrug*
Do you plan to defend against France now, or can I invite you
into Ukr to split Mos and Sev?
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
The logic last year was that you did not want any of my
armies in the North and that you preferred a fleet in
Brest to an army in Paris. Hence my plan is a fleet in
Brest and an army in Marseilles. Let me know if you have
major problems with this.
I see your point about risk versus opportunity. Yes, I
am closer to the supply centers that are not owned by
either of us. The supply centers that you have best
access to happen to be mine :-) :-)
Let me count to 17: England (3), Lowlands (5),
Scandinavia (8) Russia (12) Germany (15). So you would
need part of Austria or Turkey. Rumania and Vienna seem
reasonable, but we can be flexible. If need be, you may
take Brest. Let's not hand that one over just yet,
however. :-) :-)
To accomplish your part you will need armies into Russia
and Germany. I of course prefer them to shuttle in
through Scandinavia and not the Lowlands.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> Hence my plan is a fleet in
>Brest and an army in Marseilles. Let me know if you have
>major problems with this.
That's fine.
>To accomplish your part you will need armies into Russia
>and Germany. I of course prefer them to shuttle in
>through Scandinavia and not the Lowlands.
I am thinking of convoying one army to Norway, but the other to
Holland. In order to guarantee Kiel this year, I think I need Hol->Ruhr
and Lon->Nth->Hol in the spring. I suppose I could settle for just Sweden,
but that would give me exactly one build. We would then be even. However,
don't you think we should both be more aggressive this year than 1 for me
and 0 for you?
Actually, I would be content with 2 new centers each for us this
year. Next year we might contemplate giving me Munich and that could be
the catch-up year. It's a little premature for that discussion though. At
the rate we are going, the 2002 tournament will start before we are
finished with 2000.
Ivy
Message from Master to Italy
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>I'm guessing you didn't have a 2 year old daughter to come home to
>that night completely oblivious to the events of the day with her
>parents equally mystified as to the type of world they were raising
>their only child. Believe me, it makes you think long and hard about
>what life is really about.
You're right, I don't have a child. Of course, I didn't know you
had a child, either, so I wasn't leaping to any conclusions. My
best friend here at work has a daughter born in Feb 2000 and he's
going through much the same thing, so I think I can understand your
sentiment, though.
>My sincere apologies if this turns out not to be the 'showcase' game
>you had hoped for due to a suicidally deranged Italian.
No apology needed -- the game has been terrific and I think you've
done a fine job. You may not win (though I've seen stranger things
happen), but you've done better than others. And just like the
Academy Awards "the real prize is just being here". ;-)
Doug
Message from Master to France
You have "wait" set; if you're finished negotiating, please clear
the flag with "set nowait". I'm not pushing you to do so; I'm just
trying to move the game along if we're all just waiting around for
the turn to process.
Thanks!
Doug
Message from France to Master
Doug:
Thanks for the note. I had set wait on while waiting to
here back from England. I have done so, so I will
remove
the wait.
Roger
England: BUILD Army Edinburgh
England: BUILD Army London
France: BUILD Fleet Brest
France: BUILD Army Marseilles
Germany: REMOVE Army Silesia
Germany: REMOVE Fleet Skagerrak
Germany: REMOVE Army Tyrolia
Russia: WAIVE
Centers
England: 8
France: 9
Italy: 8
Russia: 4
Turkey: 5
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