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Message [from Germany] to all
Ye Ha Buckeroos.
We have.
AI vs RT
and
EG vs F
Least it looks that way to me. Other opinions are welcome.
The Phantom (knows)
Message from England to Germany
Freddy,
Ah, yes! yes!
We are allies in deed now, not just in words. Thank you very much.
France made the moves that he designed as part of his anti-German plan. He
asked to get into the Channel so he could support Pic->Bel in the fall,
while I was supposed to take Holland. He said he would hold in Portugal so
as not to threaten me and would rush to the German border with the Paris
army.
Get prepared for lots of sugary sweet talk from France. Be polite to him,
but treat him as you would any tele-marketer. He will remain very, very
dangerous until he loses his first center. We will have to work together
carefully.
I don't mind the Kiel s Holland. Perfectly reasonable insurance.
Sweden is a cakewalk for you.
Let's catch our breaths and design our next moves.
Faithfully yours,
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to France
Good Prince,
This situation is all my responsibility.
Nothing you ever said to me provoked my moves. Your diplomacy was a model
of perfection. However, even before we "met" I was wishing and planning
for an EG alliance against what I was certain would be a French player of
the very highest level.
I had essentially given up on this plan a long time ago, and had internally
made my peace with an EF alliance, when Freddy came out of his shell and
sent me three messages on Saturday. I reverted to my original plan on
Sunday.
I know that I made a very risky gamble and that EF would have been much
safer and easier in the short run.
Your defenses are strong and your rear is secure. This could be a
difficult struggle.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
> You may hope that if Austria stabs me, I'll throw centers to you.
> This would not be my reaction. Austria is too strong for you to
> take on by yourself, so if you're interested in turning things
> around then now is the time.
Oh, BTW, just so we're clear, if you do attack me this Fall, I will
throw Centers to Austria. I REALLY don't want to, but it's the only
lever I've got, and I am a guy who keeps his promises, unlike
Austria.
I don't know that Italy will tell me what he has planned, but I am
going to write him and point out Austria's unreliability, and the fact
that he's dependent on Austrian support to take a Turkish Center,
while there is an Austrian Center of two available for the taking.
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I believe that you made the wrong choice. Germany would
have collasped quickly. I will not do so. There will be
a time, probably sooner than you realize, that you would
have wished that you stuck with the more reliable and
reasonable ally. Germany will tend to dictate and be a
bit abrasive while I would have been willing to
compromise and work things out.
It kind of silly actually to think that I am more
dangerous than Germany is. If you think about the
tournament, the players who did well in the first round
were ganged up on in the first round. I expect that they
did manage to struggle into this game. Hence they are in
powers like Germany, Italy, and Austria, perhaps England
and Russia. The Players who did well in the second round
were probably played by powers who eeked into the second
round. Therefore people playing Germany and Austria
probably did very well in two games (first round),
whereas the people playing France and Turkey did well in
only one game (second round). Who is really more
dangerous? In the end aren't we all.
There is still time to come to your senses.
I am not bitter, it is just a game. But it is always
disapointing when the choices seem to be made for reasons
outside the game. I too started the game thinking that I
wanted an FG to eliminate England. But I forced myself
to make the choice based on the playing styles and
situation, not my original choice without any
information.
Just so you know, it will be a long time before you get a
French center. Given a choice, I will defend against the
one who betrayed me the most. A very common reaction for
people, n'est pas?
-- Prince Boar
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Broadcast message in 'titleist':
>
> Ye Ha Buckeroos.
> We have.
> AI vs RT
> and
> EG vs F
>
> Least it looks that way to me. Other opinions are welcome.
>
> The Phantom (knows)
OK, somebody thinks so, anyway.
I'm on no better than a guess for Warsaw/Moscow. You can pick up Sev with
either your fleet supported by Rum, or your Rum army supported by the fleet
with Bul following into Rum, or your Bul army convoyed with support from
Rum. The last two are equivalent, and I think better for both strategic and
tactical reasons. Strategically, we'd like the Black Sea fleet as few moves
from Naples as possible. Tactically, I'd like an army in Sev available to
support me into Mos; it does look like EG are going to gift Russia with
Sweden.
I did notice the proffered support for Tun-Gre. I am curious how that came
about, but I'm not particularly upset about it. If you really want to stab
me, you'll get better opportunities later :-).
Tamara, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
Nice job turning England against me. I felt good about
my chances of him siding with me. I was also trying to
keep my options open to side with you as well. That
doors is not closed. With Austria and Italy likely to
grow large quickly, do you realy want to be caught in
between a large England and Austria? At least France is
at your flank and would have Italy in my face. Besides I
am not likely to be large after this set back.
My original preference was for an FG alliance. I was
leaning towards the FE because we had a lot more
communication in the beginning. Clearly an England that
can negotiate walking into both Belgium and Norway when
there could have been opposition to both is very skilled
and dangerous.
I still feel that you are putting your neck in a noose
choosing an EG. England will be exactly where you said
he could not be in such an alliance. He will be at both
Flanks (northern Scan and France). Coupling that with a
large Austria .... It is just a matter of time before
the pincher move while you defend against Austria (who
will have Russia before you can get a share).
-- Prince Boar
Message from Observer to Observer
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
vgfp_titleist group:
Which power do you view as the leader,
through S1901M? Feel free to comment
through the mailing list . . .
o Austria
o England
o France
o Germany
o Italy
o Russia
o Turkey
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vgfp_titleist/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
Message from England to France
Good Prince,
>I believe that you made the wrong choice. Germany would
>have collasped quickly. I will not do so.
Agreed. England/France would have made rapid progress.
>Who is really more
>dangerous? In the end aren't we all.
Yes, and I prefered to face the greatest danger in the beginning instead of
in the end. That was part of my reasoning.
>But it is always
>disapointing when the choices seem to be made for reasons
>outside the game.
This I must kindly deny. Had this not been a tournament with a history,
but just another game, I still would have quickly concluded that you were
the most able player in "titlest." Having reached this conclusion, I faced
the common dilemma, is it better to work with the strongest player or to
conspire against the strongest player. I put this question to player who
faced this choice in my last game and he replied, "do both." He allied
himself with the strongest player, but didn't survive.
>Just so you know, it will be a long time before you get a
>French center. Given a choice, I will defend against the
>one who betrayed me the most.
Yes. I have been in that position a number of times. The first person to
harm you is placed in a special category.
I know I don't have to say this -- I'm very certain that I don't -- but I
retain the greatest respect for the person behind the Prince Boar mask. In
a similar instance, I still exchange friendly e-mails with an individual
who did me permanent harm in one of the preliminary games. He is not in
this final.
Ivy
Message from Austria to Italy
Another good season. It looks like Turkey, England, and Germany are all
willing to contribute a little to prop up Russia. That's OK; I hope the
fleet in Sweden annoys them soon. For now, I may take my guess in Russia
and support Tun-Smy (Aeg's support cannot be cut).
Did you ask Turkey for the support to Gre, or was that his idea? Either
way, you destroyed any credibility Turkey might have in seeking to ally with
me, so it certainly benefits you.
I am prepared to carry on AI vs RT, if you are. With at least 5 centers
each after the fall, versus a total of 9 at most between our opponents, one
of which is represented by the nearly-wasted Russian northern fleet, I
believe we will succeed, with RT dying by the end of 1903 and dead (except
perhaps for northern Russia) by the end of 1904.
I didn't feel I could accept an anti-Turkey plan that strengthened Russia;
the risk of getting sandwiched between Russia and Italy after Turkey fell
seeemed too high. From your point of view, a quick elimination of your
naval rival, Turkey, should free you to join in against France in time to
pick up your share (or a bit more) of the spoils there. Stabbing me, and
holding your gains after my inevitable response, would seem to leave you in
a strategically inferior position, with RT on your east and England better
positioned to take Iberia than you.
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from England to Russia
Nicky,
Extend my wishes to your wife. Tell her she is still a little more
important than Diplomacy. I don't know about your wife, but mine accepts
this harmless hobby. I am careful not to over do it though.
I am reminded that one year ago I took my wife, my mother, and my father to
the emergency room (*separately*!) all within one 24 hour period. They are
fine now.
You can imagine how reieved I was when I was permitted to remain neutral in
Scandinavia. Neither you nor Germany asked explicitly for support in
Sweden. Had Germany asked, I don't know what I would have done. If I
refused, I would have lost him as an ally. Perhaps plan B, Norway->Skag,
would have been resurrected.
Norway must now drift out to sea. Germany, obviously, is going to take
Sweden. StP is safe from me. In fact, I think your best move is to put the
fleet in StP and negiotate with Germany for peace in Scandinavia. I can
help with this.
Best wishes,
Ivy Wingo
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Thanks for the note. Be honest, it was really the Trey
Wingo thing that set you against me? :-)
>>Who is really more
>>dangerous? In the end aren't we all.
>Yes, and I prefered to face the greatest danger in the
>beginning instead of in the end. That was part of
>my reasoning.
Ah, but you misunderstood me. My point was that I do not
believe that anyone of us is truly more dangerous than
any other. We are all pretty good players, we had to be
in order to get here. So how can you really say that
Germany is less dangerous than I.
>>But it is always
>>disapointing when the choices seem to be made for
>>reasons outside the game.
>This I must kindly deny. Had this not been a
>tournament with a history, but just another game, I
>still would have quickly concluded that you were
>the most able player in "titlest."
Perhaps. But I still cannot shake the feeling that I was
doomed before the game even began. You wanted an EG and
I had a very very uphill battle to prevent it. I started
working for the FG, but was willing to change my mind. I
guess that means you are just the better player, being
able to change my mind on it while I could not change
yours.
>Having reached this conclusion, I faced
>the common dilemma, is it better to work with the
>strongest player or to
>conspire against the strongest player.
If I put aside the notion that there really is no
strongest player and assume that you are correct, then
this is a difficult philosophical question. I believe
that we discussed it at the beginning of the game. In a
game with random players of mixed skill, then perhaps it
is a wise strategy to go after the strongest. In a game
with all skilled players you run a terrible risk that a
second group of the best players from the other end of
the board will instead choose to team up and dominate.
My opinion is the opposite of yours, I chose to seek out
the strongest ally that I could find. I liked my chances
getting to the mid game and end game with that plan. I
figured that I had the best chance at the win. It would
at least be a great challenge at the end, hence a lot of
fun. Why get stuck in mediocraty when there was a chance
at greatness?
In this game, I think that you are setting yourself up
for a draw at best. Together we could have worked as a
well oiled machine and dominated the board. Perhaps one
would have stabbed the other at mid-game and became the
dominate power. But as things stand now I think that
Austria and Italy will dominate the board and one will
emerge as the dominate power. Or perhaps they will stick
together and you will be the third power in a three-way
draw? I know that my speculations are a stretch at this
point. But how long can Turkey and Russia hold up? Not
long. I will be fighting you still when they come
looking for a piece of the action.
I may respect your style and abilities, but if you
persist in your course of action I must do everything
that I can to make you pay for it.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
One last things. I just thought I would let you know
that Germany spent quite a bit of effort warning me about
your likely attack and trying to get me to attack you. I
am sure that does not surprise you. We all try to gain
subtle advantages on even out allies by pointing our
victims at them. The humorous thing is that I was not
doing that to you. I actively worked at getting Russia
to let you have Norway. I was trying to point Germany at
Russia and leave him open for you.
Since my plan was to side with you and dominate the
board, our joint success was critical. So your success
was equally important to mine. That is the only
way to dominate in a group of very good powers. Perhaps
I am a fool, but that was the type of ally you would have
had until at least the mid-game.
Cheers old chap,
Xavier Boar, Prince until the bitter end
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicholas:
I was glad to hear that your wife is not in a critical
condition. I hope that the doctors will find the problem
and give her relief very soon. It puts silly things like
being stabbed in a game in perspective.
Nevertheless, that is where I find myself, betrayed.
Looking at your situation I do not see how you stand any
chance at taking Sweden. The EG alliance is alive and
well. The will try to make short work of us. There is
no chance that England will side with you against Germany
since he needs Germany against me. Germany will
certainly take Sweden. I suspect that England will try
to sneak into St. Petes. I suggest that you deny him it
by moving GoB to St. Petes. It may put off the
inevitable, but it will give us some time to turn Germany
on England.
Meanwhile, I will do everything that I can to hold
England back, thereby helping you as well. If you deny
him St. Petes, he will not get a build. Hence you will
be in better shape near St. Petes and I will be able to
hold out longer.
I was glad to see that you and Turkey are working
together. It is too bad that Austria and Italy are set
to make gains against you. I am not sure what I can do
in that area to help you.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
Thanks for keeping our border safe. You look to be in a
very commanding position. I congratulate you. I am in a
poor position, unfortunately. I fear that I could not
overcome the "most dangerous person" fallacy. I will do
my best to defend your border. I think that I can hold
out for quite a while. I do appreciate anything you can
do to make Germany nervous and a bit tenative.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Austria
Ms. Felicia:
Congratulations on your strong position. You and Austria
seem to have the kind of alliance that I was seeking.
You two will soon dominate the board. I may survive to
see you come along and finish me off :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali Baba:
Well, I guess that you did the best that you could with
the situation. It looks like Austria and Italy are very
strong. Unfortunately I will not be able to deter them
as I have my own problems. There goes our dreams :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from Observer to Observer
--- In vgfp_titleist@y..., vgfp_titleist@y... wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> vgfp_titleist group:
>
> Which power do you view as the leader,
> through S1901M? Feel free to comment
> through the mailing list . . .
I've edited this poll to say "through S1902M". Duh.
Doug
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> Did you ask Turkey for the support to Gre, or was that his
> idea?
He offered it up and said he would make the order and I could take advantage
of it if I so desired. I'll admit, I took a look at the map and moved some
pieces around but it didn't take long to realize how bad of a move that
would have been for Italy.
>
> I am prepared to carry on AI vs RT, if you are.
>
Count me in. Shall we prepare a division of the spoils so that we both
agree who will get what and there won't be any surprises or conflicts down
the road.
>
> I didn't feel I could accept an anti-Turkey plan that
> strengthened Russia;
>
Completely understand. That's why I was suggesting that you should get
Rumania (Russia's only legitimate sniff at a supply center this year). I
don't want Russia to get a build any more than you do.
> From your point of view, a quick elimination of your
> naval rival, Turkey, should free you to join in against
> France in time to pick up your share (or a bit more)
> of the spoils there.
That's what I'm hoping. If I can eliminate Turkey AND gain my share of
Iberia, I'll lay odds that I'd be around for the end-game and there's really
nothing more I can ask for than that.
> Stabbing me, and holding your gains after my inevitable
> response, would seem to leave you in a strategically
> inferior position, with RT on your east and England
> better positioned to take Iberia than you.
>
You have absolutely no fear of a stab. I am not a rookie at this game. I
happen to think that I play the game fairly well and understand the
intricacies so often missed by others. I cannot reasonably defend any
center currently owned by you. All that would happen is your armies would
come roaring back home to take back what was rightfully yours to begin with
and allow RT to take up the real estate you're currently occupying. Italy
would have to be a complete fool, and trust me, I ain't no fool.
My orders are so pathetically easy this fall they are already ordered. I
will indeed be convoying to Smyrna and would appreciate your support from
the Aegean. We can't afford to allow Turkey a build this winter so I think
that's the best play. However, if you decide to make a different move, and
I can see where that is possible, please be so kind as to inform me so that
I don't waste 3/4 of my military strength this fall.
Life is Beautiful
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
>
> Thanks for keeping our border safe. You look to be in a
> very commanding position. I congratulate you.
>
Thank you. For the life of me, I still can't figure out how that happened.
I guess it's a rare occassion that Italy has to overcome the "most dangerous
person" fallacy.
> I do appreciate anything you can
> do to make Germany nervous and a bit tenative.
>
Partly why I'm in Tyrolia right now. It will keep him on his toes. I won't
consider any moves that will jeopardize his trust in me though until you're
at least in Burgundy in which case Tyrolia might be useful. You can be safe
in knowing though that Germany will not be able to pull the old end-around
to get to Piedmont via Tyrolia.
If there is anything I can do for you, just let me know.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Austria to Turkey
> My orders are so pathetically easy this fall they are already ordered. I
> will indeed be convoying to Smyrna and would appreciate your support from
> the Aegean. We can't afford to allow Turkey a build this winter so I
> think that's the best play. However, if you decide to make a different
> move, and I can see where that is possible, please be so kind as to inform
> me so that I don't waste 3/4 of my military strength this fall.
Order the convoy; I told you I'd make sure you gain an SC this year, and I
meant it. Also, I *still* would like Tyr-Boh; that convoy back to
Livonia was excellent defense by Russia, and he'll also get Sweden this
fall, I think. We will need another army on Warsaw if my guess there is
wrong, and maybe even if it's right. And that army is as useless where it
is now as Russia's northern fleet; more, since Russia's northern fleet is
about to pick up an SC for him.
Of course, if your cooperation by not moving to Boh last turn gained any
intelligence about Russian plans, I'd like to hear about it; but I can't
imagine Russia telling you anything that lets me outguess him.
Any thoughts about Turkey's next moves? The Archduke actually considered
the convoy back before the builds, and completely missed it when creating
the spring orders. So, if the Sultan relies on Russia, he can sit tight on
Rum, with Bul/Bla/Sev s Rum, and there's nothing I can do about it. But I
don't expect him to do that, because Russia might be unreliable, and because
it has no upside; he either swaps Smyrna for Rumania, if Aeg supports you,
or keeps Smy while losing Rum, if Aeg hits Bul to cut support.
More likely, I think, is one of Bul-Gre, Rum-Bul, Bla s Sev-Rum; or Bul s
Rum-Ser, Bla s Sev-Rum. What I'd like would be a move set that doesn't lose
an SC to either of these, and either gains one against at least one of these
or gives me a viable guess against Russia. Any suggestions?
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Observer to Observer
A couple items in the latest moves completely confused me. Hoping some
expert reading this can un-confuse a relative newbie.
>France: Fleet Portugal HOLD.
Was there any reason not to move to MAO?
>Germany: Army Holland SUPPORT Army Kiel -> Ruhr. (*void*)
>Germany: Army Kiel SUPPORT Army Holland.
A misorder???
Rather confused,
Brian.
_________________________________________________________________
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Message from Austria to France
> Congratulations on your strong position. You and Austria
> seem to have the kind of alliance that I was seeking.
> You two will soon dominate the board. I may survive to
> see you come along and finish me off :-)
Hungary has little choice, I'm afraid, but to ally with
Austria. However, Austria-Hungary is far from dominating the
board.
Your neighborhood seems to have gotten a bit warmer; perhaps
some support into Burgundy would be more effective?
At any rate, Italy is likely to be tied up for some time,
either in attacking Turkey or in attacking Austria-Hungary.
I wish I knew which. England and Germany seem to be
foregoing their opportunities in Sweden and St. Petersburg,
which will leave them without a build. So you will have
plenty of opportunity to point out to England and/or Germany
why they shouldn't be attacking France.
Felicia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from France to Austria
Ms. Felicia:
>Hungary has little choice, I'm afraid, but to ally with
>Austria.
Thanks for the chuckle. I mistyped in my haste. I meant
to say that you and Italy are in great shape. England
choose the long hard route of trying to eliminate
me rather than more quickly eliminating Germany. Italy
probably faces a similar dilmena. Hit you before you get
too big or else work with you and clean up your end of
the board fast. You can hope that he is smarter than
England is.
>Your neighborhood seems to have gotten a bit warmer;
>perhaps some support into Burgundy would be more
>effective?
I am trying, I am trying. I gave it all the support I
could (from Picardy) in the spring. It was enough to
repel the attack. But I may never enter Burgundy. OK, I
can guarantee it if I choose to. But I may not choose
to this season. I have other concerns.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I notice that you can still take Holland if you wish to
do so. It is not too late to change your mind as major
harm has not yet been done.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
When pondering the board I see that there is still a
chance to hurt England before it is too late. All you
have to do is find something for him to do with the North
Sea other than support Belgium. If he is secure it in,
you could support me to Belgium. I am even
willing to help you take it first, but I think you
might be warry of being too large relative to your
neighbors. Another alternative is for you to attack the
North Sea from Denmark. This breaks that support. You
would need to count Russia ordering GoB to St. Petes,
which I think is *highly* likely. I can even push hard
to accomplish it. I imagine that you would not want to
talk too much to Russia about it so it does not get back
to England. That is where I could be of service.
I think that if you played things correctly, we would
each get a build and England would lose one. Do you
really want that monster at your back? Further, by
influencing his moves, you could set yourself up to
hasten your entry into the North Sea. I am willing to
make that a top priority over my invasion of England.
His forces would be focussed on me. If he is not willing
to do that, what is he up to?
I am not trying to grow too large, just on par or
slightly behind you. I will not have fleets hanging
around where they can nab several of your centers at any
time. Therefore you would not have to waste so many
units keeping an eye on me, as you would have to do with
England.
-- Prince Boar
Message [from Austria] to all
BG> Holey Rubbergundy Diploman, they bounced again!
DM> Yes Boy Gambit, both Germany and France seem to be more afraid of the other occupying Burgundy than wanting to occupy it themselfs.
BG> Are there any alliances yet?
DM> There's an RT, an EG, and an AI.
BG> Oh! France has no ally?
DM> That would appear to be correct, Boy Gambit.
BG> You mentioned RT? You mean, Russia and Turkey?
DM> Correct again, Boy Gambit.
BG> But the other powers will never permit that. Everyone knows the RT alliance is far too powerful. And didn't Russia open against England?
DM> The other powers seem to be encouraging it. Look, both Saint Petersburg and Sweden were left for Russia.
BG> Wow! So the other powers are afraid of AI!
DM> I don't think so Boy Gambit. Do you have another idea?
BG> Sorry, Diploman. I just don't understand it.
DM> Consider, Boy Gambit, what happens when England and Germany attack France.
BG> Don't they win, Diploman?
DM> Indeed, Boy Gambit. But who gets the southern French centers?
BG> Oh! Italy gets most of them.
DM> Unless?
BG> Unless Italy has to fight in the East! Wow, Diploman, this game is really complicated! So England and Germany are promoting the RT alliance so
they don't have to share the spoils in France?
DM> It certainly looks that way, Boy Gambit.
Message from England to Italy
Good Roberto,
We now seem to have additional facts at our disposal!
>BG> Unless Italy has to fight in the East! Wow, Diploman, this game is
>really complicated! So England and Germany are promoting the RT alliance
>so
>they don't have to share the spoils in France?
>
>DM> It certainly looks that way, Boy Gambit.
Amusing! But I think you know that I would like nothing more than your
participation in southern France. You even have a spare army in Tyrolia.
[I suspect the author of the BG/DM dialogs to be none other than Prince
Boar himself.]
Ivy Wingo
Message [from France] to all
BG> Holey Impostors Diploman, someone is trying to steal our gig!
DM> Yes Boy Gambit, when you become popular there always will be copy cats. At
least they cannot duplicate our nifty outfits.
BG> I bet they even wear underwear under their leotards!
DM> Uh hum, there is no need to reveal all our secrets.
BG> They do not even know that our role is to bring the betrayers to justice!
DM> Yes, they have other motives. Turning to our responsibilities, the obvious
targets are those that appear to be the winners. England and Germany obviously
betrayed France. Although the alliance were not yet obvious so it may be hasty
to call it a betrayal.
BG> But there must have been some lies told, and we are after those dirty
scoundrels as well!
DM> Certainly. It seems likely that Italy lied to and betrayed Turkey. At
least Russia seemed to keep his word based on the support for Rumania. Austria
is always under suspicion due to his actions last year.
GB> There seems to be too many betrayers out there for us to handle alone.
Perhaps we should team up with those Copy Cats.
DM> Perhaps we will, Boy Gambit. I just hope that they are not too furry. I
have allergies.
Message from England to Austria
Dear Edna,
>France's reason isn't mysterious; he wants Russia to survive as his
>potential ally against either E or G, or both.
That was so clear. Even while courting my friendship, France was adamant
that I not harm Russia.
>I urge you to at least support Den-Swe, which certainly would promote EG
>amity,
Your wish, Edna, was my command. Germany preferred to take Sweden in the
manner that we just witnessed. If necessary, I would have assisted him in
the fall. Now it won't be necessary.
You and Italy appear to have a clear upper hand against RT. Selfishly, I
hope you run into some modest difficulty, for goodness knows it will take
quite a few moves before we can wrest a single center from France.
It is much too early to assume that EG will prevail, that AI will prevail,
and that it will be EG vs AI in the end. So much can happen. Please,
let's maintain good will between us, for one never knows when fate will mix
the deck.
Good luck.
Most cordially,
Ivy Wingo
Message from Turkey to all
I usually have to chuckle when someone broadcasts a sad lament of betrayal,
as if betrayal isn't a part of Diplomacy, generally including a quote from
some private press which proves the dastardliness of the traitor beyond a
shadow of doubt. So I will not quote Italy's promise not to move into
eastern waters if I built an army, nor his warning to me that Austria would
move to Aeg, in the same breath he asked for support for Tun-Gre. The
leponto threat was clearly there, so more fool me for believing any of it.
No, I'm not here to scold Roberto, but to congratulate him. Over the years
I've generally been able to tell when someone is being straight with me and
when they're yanking my chain. I can usually smell a lark a mile away, let
alone a bald-faced lie. But you had me fooled, hook line and sinker. My
hat's off to you for your uncanny ability to simulate sincerity.
And to the rest of you, yes at last the RT has been revealed! Lock up your
daughters and hide the vodka, the Juggernaut is about to sweep the land!
The noble Turks pray to Allah for vengeance as they send another generation
of brave lads off to die in battle.
Sincerely,
Ali Baba
Message from Observer to Observer
>A couple items in the latest moves completely confused me. Hoping some
>expert reading this can un-confuse a relative newbie.
>
> >France: Fleet Portugal HOLD.
>Was there any reason not to move to MAO?
Moving to Mao is more aggressive towards England and Italy then letting the
fleet rust. Perhaps France wanted to err on the passive side.
> >Germany: Army Holland SUPPORT Army Kiel -> Ruhr. (*void*)
> >Germany: Army Kiel SUPPORT Army Holland.
>A misorder???
Perhaps, or possibly Germany didn't have anything doing with the army in
Holland, and wants to suggest to France that his siding with England was a
hasty decision...
Simon Withers
_________________________________________________________________
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Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
I'll be writing you shortly with thoughts on the coming turn, but meanwhile
I have something for the KGB. This was sent to me from Austria, clearly
intended for Italy. If you have any false belief that you are part of an
IAR, I urge you to reconsider.
More to follow,
Ali Baba
----- Original Message -----
> Message from Austria to Turkey in 'titleist':
>
>
> > My orders are so pathetically easy this fall they are already ordered.
I
> > will indeed be convoying to Smyrna and would appreciate your support
from
> > the Aegean. We can't afford to allow Turkey a build this winter so I
> > think that's the best play. However, if you decide to make a different
> > move, and I can see where that is possible, please be so kind as to
inform
> > me so that I don't waste 3/4 of my military strength this fall.
>
> Order the convoy; I told you I'd make sure you gain an SC this year, and I
> meant it. Also, I *still* would like Tyr-Boh; that convoy back to
> Livonia was excellent defense by Russia, and he'll also get Sweden this
> fall, I think. We will need another army on Warsaw if my guess there is
> wrong, and maybe even if it's right. And that army is as useless where it
> is now as Russia's northern fleet; more, since Russia's northern fleet is
> about to pick up an SC for him.
>
> Of course, if your cooperation by not moving to Boh last turn gained any
> intelligence about Russian plans, I'd like to hear about it; but I can't
> imagine Russia telling you anything that lets me outguess him.
>
> Any thoughts about Turkey's next moves? The Archduke actually considered
> the convoy back before the builds, and completely missed it when creating
> the spring orders. So, if the Sultan relies on Russia, he can sit tight
on
> Rum, with Bul/Bla/Sev s Rum, and there's nothing I can do about it. But I
> don't expect him to do that, because Russia might be unreliable, and
because
> it has no upside; he either swaps Smyrna for Rumania, if Aeg supports you,
> or keeps Smy while losing Rum, if Aeg hits Bul to cut support.
>
> More likely, I think, is one of Bul-Gre, Rum-Bul, Bla s Sev-Rum; or Bul s
> Rum-Ser, Bla s Sev-Rum. What I'd like would be a move set that doesn't
lose
> an SC to either of these, and either gains one against at least one of
these
> or gives me a viable guess against Russia. Any suggestions?
>
>
> Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
>
Message from Observer to Observer
First off, I'm enjoying the dialogue between Diploman and Boy Gambit.
It's a refreshing break from Bike Race broadcasts.
Off to the 02 moves:
West:
I'm convinced England and France are at war, but Germany's moves are
ambiguous. The misorder I'll bet was intentional. Germany is
perhaps wisely keeping his options open while focusing on taking
Sweden this year. While normally that might risk an EF alliance, in
this particular game EF are already at odds, so Germany will likely
be permitted to hold off on a decision until winter 1902. If he
builds another fleet, we have FG. If he builds an army, it's
probably EG, but not necessarily so.
East:
Now that Italy's Lepento is in full gear, Turkey has little choice
but to side with Russia. Or does he? AI working together can force
Smyrna. However, if Turkey is really on the ball, perhaps he could
convince Italy to convoy his army to Greece instead, coupled with A
Tyr - Tri? And IT could be very interesting. Turkey already has his
fleet and armies in position and has probably generated at least some
trust with Russia to make an effective stab on Russia in 1903 if
Italy stabs Austria this fall.
Austria has to be counting on Italy. He already appears to have lied
to Russia and to Turkey. All of his eggs appear to be in one
basket. That's why I think it's very unlikely he'll cover Greece or
Trieste. Austria can deliver a center to Italy (Smy). What reason
does Italy have to stab? An Italian stab on Austria would be
unexpected.
But we have to ask what Austria has probably asked and then
dismissed: What reason does Italy have to stab? For starters, he
has an excellent shot at 2 centers instead of one sticking with
Austria. He also prevents his units from becoming too spread out.
This could be Italy's big break. An Italian military with momentum
and growth potential in 1903? You bet! With two builds, he could
send a harassing fleet to defend/attack France, depending upon what
course of action would most destabalize the West. The other build
would be an army in Venice, with the eventual aim of going to Pie,
but could also be used to attack Turkey in 1904 if Austria is
disposed of quickly enough, and if Russia is still intact, and if
there is no threat from the West.
But there is a serious danger to Italy in this course of action:
what if Turkey decides to side with Russia rather than Italy?
Normally this could be a deal killer. In this particular game,
however, Russia is hurting. Italy is in a much better position to be
able to assist Turkey into parts of Austria and the Balkans than is
Russia. And if Turkey does side with Russia in the long term (after
Italy has stabbed Austria), he'll eventually want his fair share of
centers, starting with Rumania. Where does that leave Turkey?
Slogging it out with Italy for control of the Ionian Sea. Where is
Turkey in a solid alliance with Italy? A land-based power pushing
his armies as quickly as possible toward the stalemate line.
And this isn't just wishful thinking by Italy. In addition to the
above, the advantage for Turkey in this arrangement is that he may
very well have an opportunity to stab Italy later, with assistance
from E or F.
AI is not certain, and neither is RT. A persuasive argument can be
made for IT vs. AR (with Austria attacked first, this fall, and then
Russia the following year. AR coordination probably would not occur
until Fall 1903). It would be devastating for AR.
Then again, it could be that Italy and Turkey don't like each other
personally. That fleet in Eastern Med certainly doesn't help.
Karlis
P.S. Brian asked why France held in Portugal. Good question. I'm
not sure myself.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Czar Nicholas,
> Oh, BTW, just so we're clear, if you do attack me this Fall, I will
> throw Centers to Austria. I REALLY don't want to, but it's the only
> lever I've got, and I am a guy who keeps his promises, unlike
> Austria.
This will not be an issue. I will not be attacking Russia at any time for
the remainder of the game.
> I don't know that Italy will tell me what he has planned, but I am
> going to write him and point out Austria's unreliability, and the fact
> that he's dependent on Austrian support to take a Turkish Center,
> while there is an Austrian Center of two available for the taking.
Please refer to the Austrian press to Italy that he sent to me by mistake.
I don't know about you, but that press was markedly different from anything
I've ever seen from Austria. I support any diplomatic efforts you choose to
make, but I urge you to be very careful and very suspicious, and to "play
dumb" regarding the solidity of AI alliance.
The Italian really did have me convinced he was going to attack Austria.
Hence, as you can imagine, my readiness to return to RT cooperation, which
an AI war would have made quite attractive. Instead AI have prevailed
strongly, and it is you and I who are on the ropes.
I think the Austrian press summed up my options pretty nicely. He even
threw in a few I hadn't thought of yet. My preference at this time is for
Bul S Rum-Ser, Bla S Sev-Rum. There is no way I can save Smyrna; I could
shore up the defense of my home centers, but only at the risk of seeing
Austria in Bul and/or Rum; or I could try for Greece or something, but that
doesn't really help anything in the long run even if it works.
In any case, I'm open for suggestion. My orders at present are Bul S
Rum-Ser, Bla S Sev-Rum, Smy Hold. Please write at your earliest convenience
if you can think of any alternative you prefer.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Austria
> I did notice the proffered support for Tun-Gre. I am curious how that came
> about, but I'm not particularly upset about it. If you really want to
stab
> me, you'll get better opportunities later :-).
Oh, certainly, I have no doubt I'll have untold opportunities to stab you.
Bit of sarcasm there. The truth is, I've suspected all along that your true
ally was Italy, fed by information from the Italian himself. Unfortunately
I also believed his talk of attacking you, which you probably knew about all
along anyway. You and Italy have done an admirable job of playing me and
Russia off against each other. I feel like I've been played like a violin.
I do not expect to survive long in this game. It certainly looks as if
we're headed into an AI & EG end game. My money's on you in the long run.
Just watch your back, old Roberto there can be very very convincing. I'm
sure from what I've seen already that you'll do a better job of protecting
yourself than I have.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
The congratulations I sent in my broadcast were genuine. You had me fooled
completely.
I do not expect to survive long in this game. I have no doubt that you and
Austria will take me and Russia apart. You've both done an admirable job
playing us against each other, although I still lay a significant amount of
the blame on Russia. In any case, I rolled the dice on an IT, and it came
up craps. However, I'm hoping you can still help me out in one way before I
go.
Specifically, I'd like to know if there was any way it might have worked. I
tried everything I could to secure your alliance. I was straight with you
from the start, my actions certainly did nothing to threaten you, and I was
genuinely on board for an IT. Instead of a Turkish ally that couldn't
threaten you, you chose an Austria that will quickly become a behemoth.
Why?
Is it that you simply couldn't conceive of an IT alliance working out, as
you said in your first press to me? Was there something I said or did that
made you believe I wasn't on the level? Did you guess who I am, and bear
some grudge from a past game? Did I set myself up as too easy a mark to
pass up? Is Austria really your long-lost brother? Was there anything that
I could have done differently to have secured Italy as an ally?
I can accept a humiliating defeat in a Dip game, this won't be my first
such. This isn't the first time I've been stabbed by a prospective ally.
But I would be sincerely grateful if you can help me understand where I went
wrong.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to France
Prince Boar,
> Well, I guess that you did the best that you could with
> the situation. It looks like Austria and Italy are very
> strong. Unfortunately I will not be able to deter them
> as I have my own problems. There goes our dreams :-)
It certainly appears that way, doesn't it? I must admit, the Italian had me
fooled completely. He played me along with anti-Austrian hints and outright
promises from the start, but it's clear to me now that he and Austria are
joined at the hip. Unfortunately this is bad news for both of us.
I will fight on as best I can, but I don't give myself very good odds. My
money's on Austria right now, though of course the game is young yet. But
whether Germany helps Russia or attacks him, Austria is going to get very
strong very fast, and while Italy won't be able to keep up, he will grow as
well.
Ah well, all that's left me is to try to defend my homeland as best I can
and support Russia any way possible. Who knows, perhaps things will turn
around. But frankly I just don't see any chinks in AI solidarity at
present. In any case, Turkish units will fight to the last man. If there
is anything I can do to server French interests in some puny way, please do
not hesitate to write.
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
It seems that I have chosen poorly in the south. I really believed
Roberto's promises to attack Austria. Indeed, I think Italian prospects
would have been better had he gone with me; as it is he'll likely have an
Austrian behemoth for a neighbor. I'm sure he knows what he's doing.
Obviously, any plans I might have had to attack Russia have been scrapped.
I will be fighting for survival, and I don't expect it to be a long fight.
In retrospect, I'm not sure what I really could have done differently, since
I still do not believe Russia would have gone along with an RT in '01.
Perhaps it is my abrasive personality. In any case I look forward to
reading the juicy details when the game is over.
I realize that England has its own priorities, and propping up Russia may
not be among them. Who knows, perhaps in an EG vs AI end game, you'll be in
good position to take out Germany and come out ahead. My money's on Austria
in that scenario, though. I'm sitting here trying to think of a compelling
reason why England ought to switch sides and support France, but to be
honest my real motivation is that I'd love it if France could hit the
Italian, and if Russia could gain English support for Sweden. Very
self-serving ends, those. Ah well, perhaps I just don't have the energy
today.
In any case, you're off to a strong start. Best of luck to you as things
unfold, and do stay in touch.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Oh, certainly, I have no doubt I'll have untold opportunities to stab you.
> Bit of sarcasm there. The truth is, I've suspected all along that your
> true ally was Italy, fed by information from the Italian himself.
> Unfortunately I also believed his talk of attacking you, which you
> probably knew about all along anyway. You and Italy have done an
> admirable job of playing me and Russia off against each other. I feel
> like I've been played like a violin.
I was not, and am not, lying about my propensity for complexity, for
wheels-within-wheels. When you built the army, I figured it was at Italy's
behest; as Turkey in another game, I did exactly the same thing in 1901
while trying to ally with that Italy. My second-string ally, Italy, got a
serious look, as I feared you were planning to abandon our nascent alliance.
> I do not expect to survive long in this game. It certainly looks as if
> we're headed into an AI & EG end game.
If you really feel that way, why hew to a unprofitable course? I was ready
to ride AT before. Why tie your own destiny to that of Russia? Stab
Russia, build a fleet, and talk to me. The geography of the situation
should tell you where my priorities lie. Perhaps you'll be eliminated more
quickly that way, but that seems your best chance of avoiding elimination.
> My money's on you in the long run.
Mine's not. I prefer to have the best of it when I gamble.
> Just watch your back, old Roberto there can be very very convincing. I'm
> sure from what I've seen already that you'll do a better job of protecting
> yourself than I have.
Intermediate players lock themselves into alliances, and ride them all the
way. You are good enough to do better than that.
Tamara, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Turkey to Germany
Freddy,
Well what can I say, I bought into Italy's proposals, and he's taken me to
the cleaners. More fool me, as I said in my broadcast. In any case, it is
clear now that AI are joined at the hip, and I think they're about to tear
me and Russia to pieces. I don't know if Germany priorities include
propping up Russia, but I fear that if you do not, Austria will become a
behemoth. Indeed, even with your help Russia would have a tough time of it.
I will fight on as best I can, but my prospects are certainly dim. Neither
Austria nor Italy has any strong opponents on the board, so realistically I
can't think of any way to prevail as long as they remain allies. I can only
hope that you and England will become strong enough to offset AI in the end
game.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Austria to England
> You and Italy appear to have a clear upper hand against RT. Selfishly, I
> hope you run into some modest difficulty, for goodness knows it will take
> quite a few moves before we can wrest a single center from France.
Actually, Italy and I will beat up Turkey, and when he is substantially
reduced, Italy will stab me in a move coordinated with Russia. The
elimination of Austria-Hungary and Turkey will free Italy to send his
fleets west to pick up the Iberian centers left available by France's
disintegration under the EG pressure. Russia won't have time to rebuild
his northern naval force, and will hit Germany with English help, and an
EIR draw will result. I just can't predict which of you will have the
most centers for the VG championship :-)
Actually, if it does end up as EG vs AI, you and I are the two powers
likely to have the least direct conflict.
Edna, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Italy to Turkey
Let me just first say that, you're not dead yet. No harm has been done to
your nation. Sure, positionally you've taken a hit but a lot hinges on what
happens this fall to determine how many you take off or add.
I can't get to Smyrna without Austrian support. If he fails to deliver, for
whatever reason, it all starts over at ground zero for me.
>
> I'd like to know if there was any way it might have worked. I
> tried everything I could to secure your alliance. I was
> straight with you from the start, my actions certainly did
> nothing to threaten you, and I was genuinely on board for an IT.
> Instead of a Turkish ally that couldn't threaten you, you chose
> an Austria that will quickly become a behemoth.
> Why?
>
Tough question. Yes, it could have worked and I was genuine in seeking your
friendship. I spent two hours last night staring at the map and moving
pieces, re-reading press until I came to the conclusion that stabbing
Austria would be for short-term gain only. He'd immediately move his armies
back and it would be difficult for me to make continued progress against
him. Believe me, I agonized over the decision. It was a very difficult
choice.
Ultimately, I think the weakness of Russia played against you. With Russia
weak, Austria and I can have somewhat separate paths for growth
opportunities. Had Russia gotten a build last winter, Austria would not
have been so eager to continue north and so eager to help me against you.
> Is it that you simply couldn't conceive of an IT alliance
> working out, as you said in your first press to me?
No. I hate sending opening press along the lines of, "Hi, I'm Italy and I
want to be your friend". I try to send everybody a unique opening message.
I'll admit to playing a little dumb in my opening message to you. I'm quite
familiar with the IT alliance but unfortunately I chose another path this
game.
> Was there something I said or did that
> made you believe I wasn't on the level?
>
No, I believed you were on the level. I truly expected you to enter the
support order. Of course, there's always a little suspicion, but in this
case it was negligible.
> Did you guess who I am, and bear
> some grudge from a past game?
No and no. I haven't a clue who you are.
> Did I set myself up as too easy a mark to pass up?
This is probably true. It was difficult to turn down the EMS move.
> Is Austria really your long-lost brother?
God, I hope not. Funny you say this, because I kinda do have a long lost
brother.
> Was there anything that
> I could have done differently to have secured Italy as an ally?
>
I don't think so. I came very close to issuing the pro-Turkish orders but
in the end chose a different route.
> But I would be sincerely grateful if you can help me
> understand where I went wrong.
>
It's quite possible that in the EoG statements you'll be writing, "I told
you so Italy". I made the bed and now I have to sleep in it.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Austria
Tamara,
> I was not, and am not, lying about my propensity for complexity, for
> wheels-within-wheels. When you built the army, I figured it was at
Italy's
> behest; as Turkey in another game, I did exactly the same thing in 1901
> while trying to ally with that Italy. My second-string ally, Italy, got a
> serious look, as I feared you were planning to abandon our nascent
alliance.
I started this game as I always do, by searching for an ally among my
neighbors. Russia never seemed sincere about an RT, and his moves bore that
out. You did not seem sincere either, really, but you at least agreed to
coordinate moves with me, so I had some hope. Italy seemed the most
promising of the bunch, with genuine-seeming talk of alliance, and
genuine-seeming intelligence about your "real" intentions. So I rolled the
dice, and it came up craps. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and all
that.
> If you really feel that way, why hew to a unprofitable course? I was
ready
> to ride AT before. Why tie your own destiny to that of Russia? Stab
> Russia, build a fleet, and talk to me. The geography of the situation
> should tell you where my priorities lie. Perhaps you'll be eliminated
more
> quickly that way, but that seems your best chance of avoiding elimination.
I can't honestly say I think my best chances of survival lie in continuing
to attack Russia. Certainly, if an AT were to pan out, I would support your
advances and make my own attacks against him. But to do so while under
heavy pressure from an apparently rock-solid AI flies in the face of reason.
If I did attack Russia, I would still be unable to build, since I'm sure to
lose Smyrna, or possibly Bulgaria, and likely will not hold onto Rumania.
Perhaps my best chance for survival might be as an Austrian puppet. It
would be easy for me to launch a futile attack on Serbia, resulting in my
army staying in Rumania. If you chose not to support Italy's attack on
Smyrna, I would happily build a fleet or whatever else you wanted me to do.
I could agree to play it out as an Austrian proxy, but I can't do so while
you're supporting Italy against me.
> Intermediate players lock themselves into alliances, and ride them all the
> way. You are good enough to do better than that.
Well thanks for the compliment. Indeed, I seem to have done nothing but
switch alliances so far this game; in the first turn pro-Russian, in the
second pro-Austrian and in the third pro-Italian. Maybe that's my problem.
In any case, I wouldn't say it's served me well.
The bottom line is, I don't care if Russia lives or dies. I do care if
Turkey lives or dies, and Turkey cannot survive the current AI forces
arrayed against it. If you choose not to support Italy's attack, then I'll
do whatever you ask. If not, I won't be around long to help or hinder you
either way.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Austria to Italy
Despite his broadcast congratulations to you, Turkey seems to be a bit
annoyed with you :-) He is also congratulating me on how well I helped
set him up, apparently hoping to learn just how much I did know about
the setup. I haven't answered him, really; it's embarassing to admit
how little I did know about it.
Is there anything you'd like to feed him?
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Italy to Austria
> So I will not quote Italy's promise not to move into
> eastern waters if I built an army, nor his warning to
> me that Austria would move to Aeg, in the same breath
> he asked for support for Tun-Gre.
>
Just so you know, the first two parts are true. I agreed not to move to the
EMS if he build an army and I did leak to him the probability of you moving
to the Aegean. However, he offered the support after realizing that, if you
were indeed moving your fleet, the convoy would be successful. I suspect he
was looking for a way to create AI conflict.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Austria to Turkey
> I started this game as I always do, by searching for an ally among my
> neighbors. Russia never seemed sincere about an RT, and his moves bore
> that out. You did not seem sincere either, really, but you at least
> agreed to coordinate moves with me, so I had some hope.
You had more than hope, but that's water over the dam.
> I can't honestly say I think my best chances of survival lie in continuing
> to attack Russia. Certainly, if an AT were to pan out, I would support
> your advances and make my own attacks against him. But to do so while
> under heavy pressure from an apparently rock-solid AI flies in the face of
> reason. If I did attack Russia, I would still be unable to build, since
> I'm sure to lose Smyrna, or possibly Bulgaria, and likely will not hold
> onto Rumania.
I can't discuss my own moves, but if you evinced an interest in this and
trusted me enough to disclose your own moves, I might be able to find a
response that was safe if you were lying and didn't weaken you much if you
were telling the truth.
As for builds, if you order Bla s Rum-Sev, Bul H, Smy H, the worst that
could happen would be that Smy is disbanded in retreat and you get a fleet
build in Con. I was careless in my original suggestion in not pointing out
that you might need to disband a retreated army to get the build.
More later, got to run...
Tamara, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
> Let me just first say that, you're not dead yet. No harm has been done to
> your nation. Sure, positionally you've taken a hit but a lot hinges on
what
> happens this fall to determine how many you take off or add.
>
> I can't get to Smyrna without Austrian support. If he fails to deliver,
for
> whatever reason, it all starts over at ground zero for me.
I appreciate your candor, but I have to confess it's not very reassuring.
No harm has technically been done yet, but once you're in Smyrna it's only a
matter of time. I suppose I can hope that Austria somehow betrays you, but
I think you and I both know chances of that are slim. My expectation is
that I'll be lucky to hold onto 4 units this year.
> Tough question. Yes, it could have worked and I was genuine in seeking
your
> friendship. I spent two hours last night staring at the map and moving
> pieces, re-reading press until I came to the conclusion that stabbing
> Austria would be for short-term gain only. He'd immediately move his
armies
> back and it would be difficult for me to make continued progress against
> him. Believe me, I agonized over the decision. It was a very difficult
> choice.
Hm, well I suppose you know what you're doing. I would have thought that,
as you once said yourself, a strong land-based Turkey would be better for
Italy in the long run than a strong land-based Austria. And whatever
happens, Austria is sure to come out of this very very strong. Had things
gone as I had hoped, Russia would have been able to apply enough
anti-Austrian pressure that I think he'd have collapsed in short order. But
it's all academic at this point.
Ironic that my enthusiasm for the IT came from what I perceived as long-term
advantages, but you saw only short-term gain in it for Italy.
> Ultimately, I think the weakness of Russia played against you. With
Russia
> weak, Austria and I can have somewhat separate paths for growth
> opportunities. Had Russia gotten a build last winter, Austria would not
> have been so eager to continue north and so eager to help me against you.
Interesting conjecture. I would rather have believed that had I helped
Russia, it would have strengthened AI solidarity. Certainly, I would not
have expected you to join an IT had left the Black Sea DMZ, as Russia
wanted, or had I built a fleet in Smyrna, as Austria wanted.
> No, I believed you were on the level. I truly expected you to enter the
> support order. Of course, there's always a little suspicion, but in this
> case it was negligible.
I find this most fascinating. I often choose an ally by who I think is
being the most straightforward with me, and who I believe the most. A naive
approach, perhaps, but one that's served me well until now. I honestly
thought in this case that was you. This serves as a reminder of the old
mistake of assuming others will respond the way I would.
> > Did I set myself up as too easy a mark to pass up?
>
> This is probably true. It was difficult to turn down the EMS move.
Well, my bad then. Although I have to say, this seems to contradict the
assertion that you attacked me due to long-term considerations. I usually
see the "easy mark" as a short-term gain primarily. I'm not trying to argue
with you, and I definitely appreciate your answering my questions, I'm just
still trying to understand.
> > Was there anything that
> > I could have done differently to have secured Italy as an ally?
>
> I don't think so. I came very close to issuing the pro-Turkish orders but
> in the end chose a different route.
Heh heh. Well at least I have that, then.
> It's quite possible that in the EoG statements you'll be writing, "I told
> you so Italy". I made the bed and now I have to sleep in it.
I think you'll be sleeping comfortably, though you may have to dodge
Austria's elbows now and again.
It seems from your press that you've chosen to stick with Austria as an
ally, at least until Russia and I are out of it. If I assume that Austria
does stick with AI (and I must certainly assume that at this point), then
there is little I can do. If, however, you decide at some point that
Austria is not the ally you really want long-term, then I'm the kind of
player that is ready and willing to let bygones be bygones and start fresh.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Turkey to Germany
Frederick,
By the way, one thing you should know. Austria accidentally sent a press to
me that was clearly intended for Italy. He is urging Italy to order
Tyr-Boh. Since you may have some feelings in the matter, I thought you
should be aware of it.
Regards,
Ali Baba
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> Despite his broadcast congratulations to you, Turkey seems to be a bit
> annoyed with you :-)
>
No, really? I'm shocked.
>
> Is there anything you'd like to feed him?
>
Not really. Feel free to tell him the truth. I have nothing to hide.
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
>
> Amusing! But I think you know that I would like nothing more
> than your participation in southern France. You even have a
> spare army in Tyrolia.
>
I'll get there as fast as I can. I've got a little Turkey gravy that
spilled that I have to mop up first though.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Germany
Gentlemen,
I, obviously, realize that Germany can take Sweden, if he so chooses,
but I ask you both to consider whether doing so at this point makes the
most sense. While the broadcasts proclaim the Juggernaut, the RT
alliance is clearly one of desperation, which will need a fair measure of
luck this Fall to hold its own against AI. Allowing me to take Swe has
several advantages for you both. If I guess correctly in the south, it will
give me a build to throw at Austria, which will likely stagnate the East,
and give you the time you need to eliminate France. It will also limit
your common front, and reduce the possibility of a stab, while giving
France a reason to remain in contact with me, which may allow me to
provide you with useful intelligence. I hope you will consider the wisdom
of this course.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Italy to Russia
Once again, Austria is not divulging his moves. Just vague references to
what he might do. He has agreed to support Tun-Smy and he made mention of
trying to outguess you. So, if I had to guess, I'd say he'll try for either
War or Mos. I know, not much to go on but that's all I've got so far.
Turkey didn't go for the assertion that our treaty didn't extend into 1902.
:)
Looks like I was wrong out west. For what it's worth, I think it will take
some time for EG to take out France so hopefully there will be ample time
for the east to settle before we head west.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> Extend my wishes to your wife.
Thanks, I will.
> one year ago I took my wife, my mother, and my father to
> the emergency room (*separately*!) all within one 24 hour period.
Hmm, I seem to recall hearing this story... (Of course, I don't
remember
who from...8-)
> You can imagine how reieved I was when I was permitted to remain
> neutral in Scandinavia.
The Austrian Ambassador continued to lie (badly) to me, so it became
clear that the Convoy to Lvn was necessary to defend Mos/War.
> Norway must now drift out to sea. Germany, obviously, is going to take
> Sweden. StP is safe from me. In fact, I think your best move is to put
the
> fleet in StP and negiotate with Germany for peace in Scandinavia. I can
> help with this.
I urge to support, at least verbally, my claim to Sweden. GF Den,
GF Swe, is not healthy for England, particularly if EF Nwy is headed
for the North Atlantic, and I do need the build more than Germany
does. You can always claim you'd feel better keeping the alliance
balanced in terms of Centers if possible. Of course, down the road
RF Swe would be available to assist when the time comes to stab
Germany. 8-)
Your hopeful friend,
Nicky.
Message from Russia to all
> Broadcast message from Turkey in 'titleist':
> I usually have to chuckle when someone broadcasts a sad lament of
betrayal,
> as if betrayal isn't a part of Diplomacy, generally including a quote from
> some private press which proves the dastardliness of the traitor beyond a
> shadow of doubt. So I will not quote Italy's promise not to move into
> eastern waters if I built an army, nor his warning to me that Austria
would
> move to Aeg, in the same breath he asked for support for Tun-Gre. The
> leponto threat was clearly there, so more fool me for believing any of it.
> No, I'm not here to scold Roberto, but to congratulate him.
While this might be interpreted as criticizm of the St. Petersburg
Pravda's
report of Archduke Ferdinand's breaking of the Galician DMZ, let me assure
the leaders of Europe that after intense questioning, the Foreign Ministry
official who leaked the treaty to "Pravda" indicated that he did so, not
because
he was distressed by Austria-Hungary's betrayal of trust, but rather because
he was disgusted by the lame and obviously insincere manner in which the
Austrian Ambassador attempted to claim that move was necessary for
Austrian self-defense.
> And to the rest of you, yes at last the RT has been revealed! Lock up
your
> daughters and hide the vodka, the Juggernaut is about to sweep the land!
Could somebody hand me a broom? 8-)
Nick.
Message from Russia to Turkey
My Dear Ali,
> This was sent to me from Austria, clearly intended for Italy.
Hmmm, or could it have been an intentional plant, intended to deceive?
It does sound genuine, though. Now the question is, does he realize
what he's done, and if so, how will that change his plans?
> If you have any false belief that you are part of an IAR
Roberto's true intentions are somewhat harder to judge, but it is
clear that Austria and Russia are enemies.
In Alliance,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to Turkey
My Dear Ali,
> I will not be attacking Russia at any time for the remainder of the game.
I really didn't think there was any question, but I was concerned that
Roberto may have abided by your agreement, and suggested that you
take Sev to set up IT vs. A vs. R.
> Please refer to the Austrian press to Italy that he sent to me by mistake.
> I don't know about you, but that press was markedly different from
> anything I've ever seen from Austria. I support any diplomatic efforts
> you choose to make, but I urge you to be very careful and very
> suspicious, and to "play dumb" regarding the solidity of AI alliance.
I am considering sending Roberto a note asking how Idalia is enjoying
Rome, just to see what sort of response it generates. Anything that
emphasizes Austria's unreliability has to help us, I think. AI is
inherently
unstable, and Italy is clearly the one who's going to stab. It's just a
question of when.
> I think the Austrian press summed up my options pretty nicely. He even
> threw in a few I hadn't thought of yet. My preference at this time is for
> Bul S Rum-Ser, Bla S Sev-Rum. There is no way I can save Smyrna;
> I could shore up the defense of my home centers, but only at the risk of
> seeing Austria in Bul and/or Rum; or I could try for Greece or something,
> but that doesn't really help anything in the long run even if it works.
I haven't had an opportunity to realy consider tactics, yet, but the one
thing that concerns me is Aeg-Con. I'd much rather see Italy build than
Austria.
> In any case, I'm open for suggestion. My orders at present are Bul S
> Rum-Ser, Bla S Sev-Rum, Smy Hold. Please write at your earliest
> convenience if you can think of any alternative you prefer.
I'll think about it and get back to you later tonight, or early
tomorrow.
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto, My Friend,
> He has agreed to support Tun-Smy and he made mention of
> trying to outguess you.
Are you sure you can trust him to support you? He has to worry
about Bul-Gre and Bul S Rum-Ser, and must be tempted by Aeg-Con.
> So, if I had to guess, I'd say he'll try for either War or Mos.
Gee, do you think so? 8-) Based on what I've said and done so far,
which Center do you think I'll defend? Would you care to share that
opinion with Idalia, (you might wonder how I know her name...) and
mention that if you were Austria you'd try for the other? You could
offer similar opinions regarding Gre/Ser/Rum as a "good ally", and be
truly distressed when it turns out that RT went the other way.
> Turkey didn't go for the assertion that our treaty didn't extend into
> 1902. :)
I didn't think he would, but it was a better explanation than, "You
might have ordered Ukr-Rum, I had to defend myself!' 8-)
> Life is Beautiful,
For you, maybe... ;^)
Nick.
Message from France to all
Tour de France Stage 16 Results:
German Jens Voight outmuscled and outdueled Australian
Brad McGee for a win today, adding a stage win to Credit
Agricole's excellent Tour so far. It looks like I picked
the wrong French team. Morceau (the winner of the
prologue) had dropped out. No one receives points in our
game.
The overall standings near the top did not change. There
was a late crash in the pack that knocked five riders out
of the race with injuries. How disappointing to make it
so far and then not finish due to an injury. They can
sit at the side lines and dream of what could have been.
It looks like Armstrong will win the Tour. Therefore it
seems almost certain that England will win our little
game. The Dauphin is currently planning where to take
his sister. His first priority, get some decent food in
her. She must be tired of that English rot. Then some
wine. Then some more wine .....
Is this English win in our game a prelude to a bigger
win? Time will tell.
Official Tally:
Austria (Domo-Farm Frites): 0 points
England (USPS): 30 points
France (Festina): 10 points
Germany (Telekom): 20 points
Italy (Fassa Bortolo): 10 points
Russia (Robobank): 20 points
Turkey (CSC): 20 points
Doug (O.N.C.E.): 0 points
Selected Standings:
1. Lance Armstrong (USP)
2. Jan Ullrich (TEL) @ 5:05
3. Andrei Kivilev (COF) @ 5:13
4. Joseba Beloki (ONC)@ 6:33
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to France
Prince Boar,
My how the mighty have fallen. Do you suppose it was France and
Russia's record of success, or do you think it's personal? I imagine your
defense will
keep EG occupied for some time, and I hope to be able to convince EG that
if they take Swe and particularly StP from me, that will just mean that the
East
will resolve more quickly. Ivy's bright enough to know that that would not
be
a good thing.
Cordially,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
Just one more thing that occurred to me regarding Swe. If you move
Hol-Ruh,
Den-Hel, Bal-Den, and then Hel-Hol, you'll be better positioned to defend
against
an English stab, and my Fleet in Swe will be available to you should you
need it.
Nick.
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
>Partly why I'm in Tyrolia right now. It will keep him
>on his toes. I won't consider any moves that will
>jeopardize his trust in me though until you're
>at least in Burgundy in which case Tyrolia might be
>useful.
Thank you. But if you were to hit Munich that might
increase my odds of being in Burgundy. I am sure that
you can argue it away to Germany. Just tell him that it
is not in your best interest to see me fall so quickly.
What is he going to do, open another front?
What if I said pretty please? Got down on my knees and
begged? I realize that I am asking a lot. But if I do
not ask there is no chance, right?
>You can be safe in knowing though that Germany will not
>be able to pull the old end-around
>to get to Piedmont via Tyrolia.
For that much I thank you.
>If there is anything I can do for you, just let me know.
See above :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to all
Ali:
>No, I'm not here to scold Roberto, but to congratulate
>him. You had me fooled, hook line and sinker. My
>hat's off to you for your uncanny ability to simulate
>sincerity.
I feel your pain. Ivy can give him a run for his money
in that department. Perhaps they can form a club. Then
they can play Turkey and France next game and we can all
gang up on them :-)
>the Juggernaut is about to sweep the land!
Don't you mean the JuggerNOT. :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
>In any case, Turkish units will fight to the last man.
>If there is anything I can do to server French interests
>in some puny way, please do
>not hesitate to write.
I wish you the best of luck. The only thing I ask for
myself is that you fight well and anything you can do to
keep Russia alive would be helpful. His presence may
help keep some of the wolves off us both.
I fully expect England and Germany to attack Russia.
They have nothing to gain by helping him and Russia could
not be so gullible to believe them, even if they promised
it??? Well if he is, straighten him out! :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
I am sorry for my numerous messages. But while I do not
hear from you I assume that there is hope.
I want to share some thoughts with you. As you know I
started this game wanting an FG alliance. We had some
interesting discussions and I thought we could come to an
agreement on how to safely take out England. Russia
badly wanted FGR against England. You and I had the bike
conversations and the Tour de France in common.
Everything seemed set for a great match.
Yet somehow Ivy was able to turn me against you, despite
all that. The reasons is that he is very very good. He
builds relationship that people believe in. As you now
know I was complete surprised by his moves. He had me
very fooled.
When I am gone, he will have the upper hand on you
because I believe that he will have excellent
relationships with those on the other side of you. I
know he has a great one with Italy. Russia is obviously
an admirer. Even though I think that you have a good
approach, I like many of the honest things that you said,
I believe that he will win out with the others. I do not
think that I would stand a chance against him unless
there were strategic and tactical reasons for someone to
side with me, like his being between Russia and I. You
have none of those tactical advantages over him. In fact
you will have many tactical disadvantages, as we have
spoken at great length.
Can you afford to keep him around?
Also consider that a 6 center Germany and a 5 center
England will have a tough time against a 5 center France.
You will win out, but can you afford the time it will
take. But a 6 center Germany and a 6 Center France can
much more easily beat a 4 center England. Even though
his island is a great defense, it has many spread out
approaches. France is compact enough that I can more
easily defend it. It will not take Italy and Austria
long to clean Turkey's clock.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicholas:
Yes Ivy is bright enough to know that you are slowing
down the east. But he is also smart enough to know that
he needs another fleet to fight me. He will have a hole
that I can exploit. He will probably take St. Petes if
you do not stop him. I think that there is a 100% chance
that Germany will take Sweden.
I hope that you do what you have to do. I wish you the
best of luck with your guess. I see it a 50-50 shot to
keep both Warsaw and Moscow.
Please do not take big gambles and fall hard and fast. I
am working on trying to turn Germany on England. Perhaps
you can try the same approach. Giving up on Sweden, when
you have almost no shot at it, could be a nice olive
branch to Germany.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
It has become obvious to France that we have no
diplomatic opportunities with England. Our situation has
been revealed as a purely military one. Therefore
Prince Boar has been discharged as the Ambassador to
England. His services are no longer useful. If the
situation changes at some future date, you may request
his reinstatement.
If you have communications with France, you will direct
them to me.
Because my brother is sentimental and he is kin, I have
allowed him a short note to you (enclosed below).
Le DAUPHIN
======================
Ivy:
I regret the decision made by my brother. I can argue
with him, but ultimately he holds the mantle of power, so
he must be obeyed. I hope for a time when we may
continue our conversations.
I do wish you the best personally, although I am deeply
disappointed with the choices made by your country.
Your friend,
Xavier
================================
Personal note.
In regard to your decision to go after the strongest ally
right at the beginning. I do not know if you were just
feeding me a line to justify your actions and make me
feel a little better. It is good diplomacy and obviously
you are a very good player. On the chance that you were
being sincere about your choice to never side with the
strongest opponent, I truly recommend that you try it
some time. In my previous game I had such an alliance
that lasted for more than half the game. I so enjoyed
working with a competent ally in a true spirit of
cooperation. Sure we were careful; it was not a carebear
relationship. But together we accomplished so much more
than we each could have done alone. It was nice not to
have to do everything yourself. Your ally could be
counted on to mold situations as well. It was probably
one, if not the, most enjoyable situations I have found
in this game of diplomacy. Give it some thought for the
future. It is obvious a dead issue for this game.
Regards,
The person behind Prince Boar.
Message from Germany to England, France, Italy, and Russia
Gentlemen:
Please excuse my silence yesterday and today. There are 38 new
emails waiting for me today. And I haven't answered yesterday's yet.
But have no fear I'll be up to date shortly, and I'll respond to
everyone.
The good news is that I'm putting events that have been taking up my
time behind me continuously, and nothing is being added to the front
end. Last night was our big quarterly ski club meeting. Since I'm the
president, it's probably a good thing that I go. And of course I have
to socialize with the members afterwards. Wouldn't be right not to.
(No more ski club trouble for 3 months now)
BTW being in a ski club doesn't give away anything in a gunboat game.
I've heard that the biggest ski clubs are in Miami and Houston. Maybe
that's where I am.
Fredd
Message from Russia to France
Prince Boar,
> Yes Ivy is bright enough to know that you are slowing
> down the east. But he is also smart enough to know that
> he needs another fleet to fight me. He will have a hole
> that I can exploit. He will probably take St. Petes if
> you do not stop him. I think that there is a 100% chance
> that Germany will take Sweden. I am working on trying to
> turn Germany on England. Perhaps you can try the same
> approach. Giving up on Sweden, when you have almost
> no shot at it, could be a nice olive branch to Germany.
I've written to both offering my support against the other
if they let me have Sweden, and if I get Swe, Ivy can move
Nwy-Nwg-NAO, and plug that hole without a build. As I
see it, I can't afford to give up on Swe. Without a build, it's
just a matter of time before I fall to Austria. If England takes
StP, that will just occur that much faster.
> I hope that you do what you have to do. I wish you the
> best of luck with your guess. I see it a 50-50 shot to
> keep both Warsaw and Moscow.
I'm hoping to shift those odds in my favor, somewhat, but I
haven't worked out the details, yet.
> Please do not take big gambles and fall hard and fast.
You couldn't have told me this BEFORE S1901M? 8-)
Nick.
Message from Austria to Turkey
Continuing where I left off...
> Perhaps my best chance for survival might be as an Austrian puppet. It
> would be easy for me to launch a futile attack on Serbia, resulting in my
> army staying in Rumania. If you chose not to support Italy's attack on
> Smyrna, I would happily build a fleet or whatever else you wanted me to do.
> I could agree to play it out as an Austrian proxy, but I can't do so while
> you're supporting Italy against me.
You're also too good a player to be a permanent puppet. Right now I believe
AI has a slight advantage against RT, and I can't ease off without losing
that advantage. My suggestions, that you grab Sev, and dump that extra army
and turn it into a fleet, would reduce my risk and allow me more
flexibility. That flexibility may be what we need to rearrange alliances
next year.
Furthermore, both changing an army to a fleet and getting rid of the
Russian fleet behind you are sound defensive moves anyway. Against the two
fleets attacking you, a single fleet is pretty helpless. And the Russian
fleet behind you can't really help much, and is always a threat to stab if
you begin to succeed against AI. I doubt the Russian has forgotten the
Fall 1901 Bul-Rum that hurt him so badly; while he may be allied with you
because it's better than nothing, I don't think he's very happy about doing
so.
> Well thanks for the compliment. Indeed, I seem to have done nothing but
> switch alliances so far this game; in the first turn pro-Russian, in the
> second pro-Austrian and in the third pro-Italian. Maybe that's my problem.
> In any case, I wouldn't say it's served me well.
The first switch was fine. The second one wasn't; you walked into a trap,
there was no alliance for you to switch into.
> The bottom line is, I don't care if Russia lives or dies. I do care if
> Turkey lives or dies, and Turkey cannot survive the current AI forces
> arrayed against it. If you choose not to support Italy's attack, then I'll
> do whatever you ask. If not, I won't be around long to help or hinder you
> either way.
Turkey is pretty tough. If you want an alternative to the slow
dismemberment that will probably result from your RT participation, I
suggest cannibalism :-). Take a chomp out of Russia; he can't bite back
anyway, and I still prefer AT to AI, especially when it's AT vs I rather
than AT versus IR.
Tamara, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Austria to Italy
> Not really. Feel free to tell him the truth. I have nothing to hide.
I'm telling him a mix of truth and spin. No interesting response yet, I'm
afraid.
Did I miss a response about Tyrolia? I had asked for Tyr-Boh.
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
What do you think Austria is likely to do? I see a possibility to be
clever,
but I want to double-check my thoughts about what I think he'll try.
Nick.
Message from Observer to Observer
On Wed 25 Jul 2001 at 06:47:59PM -0000, in <9jn48v+bmpb@e...>,
povisils@y... wrote:
> First off, I'm enjoying the dialogue between Diploman and Boy Gambit.
> It's a refreshing break from Bike Race broadcasts.
:) Agreed on that!
> Off to the 02 moves:
> West:
> I'm convinced England and France are at war, but Germany's moves are
> ambiguous. The misorder I'll bet was intentional.
Yeah. There's no good reason for A Kie->Ruh right now other than a grab at
Belgium... And this way, he can explain to both sides that he was
actually trying to going the other way... Maybe. :)
I suspect that he's ostensibly working with England, but that move
keeps England on his toes... "Don't betray me, or look, I can grab
Belgium off you."
> Germany is
> perhaps wisely keeping his options open while focusing on taking
> Sweden this year. While normally that might risk an EF alliance, in
> this particular game EF are already at odds, so Germany will likely
> be permitted to hold off on a decision until winter 1902. If he
> builds another fleet, we have FG. If he builds an army, it's
> probably EG, but not necessarily so.
*nodnod* Think I'm mostly agreed on that... but I think there *is* a
bluesky possibility of EFR vs G... but it's very low probability. See
further down.
> East:
> Now that Italy's Lepento is in full gear, Turkey has little choice
> but to side with Russia. Or does he? AI working together can force
> Smyrna. However, if Turkey is really on the ball, perhaps he could
> convince Italy to convoy his army to Greece instead, coupled with A
> Tyr - Tri? And IT could be very interesting. Turkey already has his
> fleet and armies in position and has probably generated at least some
> trust with Russia to make an effective stab on Russia in 1903 if
> Italy stabs Austria this fall.
I'd lay odds on it. It's just too sweet a deal... Italy needs to grow
fast, if he can do it without risking an early STL... but I don't
think there's any likelihood of an early STL.
England is reasonably clearly hitting France, or if not, Germany...
either way, he's not a concern to Italy of any kind.
France is clearly busy (unless EF are playing a deeper game than is
obvious, but even then, F will still be busy vs G) to the north.
Russia is waiting to be carved up, so no issue there.
Germany is busybusy northwards.
Turkey has a lot of pressure coming at him from all sides, and would
be very happy for some of that pressure to turn out to be imaginary.
Austria... hrm. If R is smart, he should be pointing out to A that
Rum is a *much* better target for Austria... and IMO, A should be
grabbing at Rum. R is now in position to at least put up at 50/50
fight for Mos/War... where A could guarantee Rum, if he wanted to.
However, as you say, Austria, I think has burned his bridges vs R and
T, and is unlikely to be trusted by either party.
The interesting tactical question around there too is... "What about
Greece?"
[snippage]
> AI is not certain, and neither is RT. A persuasive argument can be
> made for IT vs. AR (with Austria attacked first, this fall, and then
> Russia the following year. AR coordination probably would not occur
> until Fall 1903). It would be devastating for AR.
Very very agreed on that. And, I think *R* should be arguing hard for
AR... And I suspect that grey press commentary about the JuggerNOT may
well turn out to be correct.
> Then again, it could be that Italy and Turkey don't like each other
> personally. That fleet in Eastern Med certainly doesn't help.
No, it doesn't, but F Ion->Gre, F EME->Ion, A Tyr->Tri would fix all
of that in one stroke.
> P.S. Brian asked why France held in Portugal. Good question. I'm
> not sure myself.
No idea... unless, again, maybe EF *is* actually on the cards, or at
least, F either thinks it could be, or is trying to encourage it.
F MAO in fall is *far* less threatening to E than F MAO in Spring...
F MAO->NAO->Lvp, after all, is reasonably nasty, whilst F Por->MAO
isn't anywhere near as nasty, and gives E a serious chance to move
against Germany *now*...
F Nth->Hel, F Lon->Nth, A Bel->Ruh, F Nwy S F Bot->Swe, F Eng->Bel...
Not that I think it's *likely*, but it's certainly an option I'd be
talking *very* hard to England and Russia about in France's position.
And importantly, F Por now, means that France can talk England into
*doing* the above moveset *without* England having to risk France
stabbing him in a fatal fashion. F Bre->Eng is nowhere near as bad as
F Bre->Eng, F MAO->NAO would be, with the above moveset.
Ook,
Thorf
--
<a href="http://tertius.net.au/~thorfinn">thorfinn@t...</a>
"Just because something's true doesn't mean it should be quoted."
-- Hobbes@v... redux
Message from Italy to Austria
> Did I miss a response about Tyrolia? I had asked for Tyr-Boh.
Yes. I will re-send tomorrow when I have access to my 'Sent Items'.
France is requesting Tyr-Mun to help him reach Burgundy (or prevent Germany
from getting there). I'm currently considering that move as well.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia
> Are you sure you can trust him to support you? He has to worry
> about Bul-Gre and Bul S Rum-Ser, and must be tempted by Aeg-Con.
I don't trust him as far as I can throw him but what choice do I have now?
One thing I have going for me is it's a guarantee to succeed. And, if he
fails to order the support and covers Greece instead, there is a decent
chance Turkey would get a build.
> Based on what I've said and done so far, which Center do you think I'll
> defend?
Not sure, but I think he'll go for Moscow. I don't think he can afford not
to move Gal-Rum.
> Would you care to share that opinion with Idalia,
> (you might wonder how I know her name...)
Now that you mention it, yes, I do wonder how you know.
> and mention that if you were Austria you'd try for the other?
Let me think about it and see if I can figure out which province you'd be
more likely to defend. But, if I think it's best that he try for Moscow and
use Galicia for Rumania, then it would be difficult for me to argue any
other way.
I truly don't know what Austria will order. I do think he made less than
optimal orders in the spring and thus his current position is full of
guesses. He seems over paranoid about the possibility of Tyr-Tri. If it
weren't for the fact that it's tactically better for me to eliminate Turkey
first, I'd stab him immediately.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto, My Friend,
> I don't trust him as far as I can throw him but what choice do
> I have now? One thing I have going for me is it's a guarantee
> to succeed. And, if he fails to order the support and covers
> Greece instead, there is a decent chance Turkey would get a
> build.
It's guaranteed ONLY if Austria orders Aeg S Tun-Smy,
though, and I have a set of orders available to me that gives
me two builds and forces him to disband one, if Austria guesses
wrong. Is he THAT concern about Turkey building a Fleet and
slowing your growth?
> > Would you care to share that opinion with Idalia,
> > (you might wonder how I know her name...)
>
> Now that you mention it, yes, I do wonder how you know.
Let's just say that you should be less than certain about her
loyalty to you, and the privacy of the communications channels
between Vienna and Rome.
> I truly don't know what Austria will order. I do think he made
> less than optimal orders in the spring and thus his current position
> is full of guesses. He seems over paranoid about the possibility
> of Tyr-Tri. If it weren't for the fact that it's tactically better for
> me to eliminate Turkey first, I'd stab him immediately.
Let's look at the worst-case scenario for a moment. Austria
guesses right, takes Mos or War, Rum, and Con, and builds
three. Are you sure that a 5-Center Turkey with 3 Armies and
a Fleet in Bla is more threatening to you than that?
Your Concerned Friend,
Nicky.
Message from England to Italy
Good Roberto,
>I'll get there as fast as I can. I've got a little Turkey gravy that
>spilled that I have to mop up first though.
Ah, yes.
Do give some thought to long range strategic considerations. Once any
Austria has a head of steam its solo opportunities are tremendous. So many
centers lie within easy reach. For starters, I assume you have made it
clear that Austria must never build a fleet.
The other problem with the Italian side of an AI alliance is that Italy is
so strung out across the Mediterranean. You will have to defend your
Turkish territory and your homeland while trying to pick up French centers
in the west. This is a nightmare. Austria, however, remains very compact.
The good news for you is that AI will progress faster than EG. But please,
be very careful with Austria. Never let him get the upper hand.
There is always the possibility of Tyr-Trieste, Ion-adr, & eas-ion !! Give
all those spectators some first-rate entertainment.
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>While the broadcasts proclaim the Juggernaut, the RT
>alliance is clearly one of desperation, which will need a fair measure of
>luck this Fall to hold its own against AI.
This is clear. In this instance the world has more to fear from AI than
from RT.
>Allowing me to take Swe has
>several advantages for you both.
For me, yes. For Germany? I will see what I can do, but I am not overly
optimistic.
>If I guess correctly in the south, it will
>give me a build to throw at Austria, which will likely stagnate the East,
>and give you the time you need to eliminate France.
It is going to be difficult to persuade Germany that you have room to throw
three armies at Austria. Where would you put the third army? In Moscow?
Then what would Livonia do?
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Master and Russia
Nick,
>> Extend my wishes to your wife.
>
> Thanks, I will.
>
>> one year ago I took my wife, my mother, and my father to
>> the emergency room (*separately*!) all within one 24 hour period.
>
> Hmm, I seem to recall hearing this story... (Of course, I don't
>remember
>who from...8-)
A slip. I apologize to you and to the master. Actually, I can't even
figure out in which of my three prior games I might have said this. I
don't doubt that I did, since it was a rather traumatic time for me.
Ivy
Message from England to France
Mr. Dolphin
You seem to be a leaner, meaner, fishier version of your good brother.
Please give him my regards.
Mr. Wingo
>================================
>Personal note.
>
>In regard to your decision to go after the strongest ally
>right at the beginning.
Less than a decision. I made it my first option. And I failed. Just read
the Italian/German/English correspondence when this is all over.
[Since even EOG statements are often self-serving and less than honest, I
can't wait to read the actual press this time. Or maybe there will be too
much.]
Then I tried to give the possibilities EF & EG equal weight, but the early
German correspondence was hopeless. I resigned myself to an EF alliance
even though I was afraid of you.
>On the chance that you were
>being sincere about your choice to never side with the
>strongest opponent, I truly recommend that you try it
>some time.
Oh, I certaily have, and with good results. If I used the word "never,"
that was simply a mistake. I have used all kinds of stategies in all kinds
of games.
As recently as Saturday morning I was still moving my wooden pieces around
trying to see how the EF campaign would go. Last minute correspondence
received from Germany, Italy, and Russia gave me pause (omitting lots of
details here). Finally I changed my mind.
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>It seems that I have chosen poorly in the south. I really believed
>Roberto's promises to attack Austria.
There is always Tyr-vie; ion-adr, eas-ion possible for Italy this turn.
How one gets him to do this is another matter. I think I will point out to
him the weakness of Italy with respect to Austria when it comes to solo
possibilities.
>I realize that England has its own priorities, and propping up Russia may
>not be among them. Who knows, perhaps in an EG vs AI end game, you'll be in
>good position to take out Germany and come out ahead. My money's on Austria
>in that scenario, though.
Mine too.
>I'm sitting here trying to think of a compelling
>reason why England ought to switch sides and support France
No, there is no good reason at present.
>In any case, you're off to a strong start. Best of luck to you as things
>unfold, and do stay in touch.
Thanks,
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >If I guess correctly in the south, it will
> >give me a build to throw at Austria,
>It is going to be difficult to persuade Germany that
>you have room to throw three armies at Austria. Where would you put the
>third army? In Moscow?
>Then what would Livonia do?
Sev-Arm, Bla S Mos-StP, Lvn-Mos, or Rum & War S Mos-Ukr,
Lvn-Mos both come to mind.
Nick.
Message from England to Germany
Good Freddy,
I have had a chance to look at the position, and I think our moves are
fairly simple.
I intend
Nwy->Nwg
Eng->Iri
Lon s Nth->Eng
Bel s Mun->Bur
This time, though, we cannot prevent France from getting to Burgundy.
I assume you will try something like
Bal s Den->Swe
Hol s Kie->Ruh
Mun->Bur
Let me know if you would rather try something a little different.
Using Denmark to take Sweden has several huge advantages. It keeps Russia
out of the Baltic. It would be nasty if he got there. In conjunction with
my vacating of the North Sea it creates a large neutral zone between
us. It better positions you for an attack on StP.
I now fear Austria most of all. He is in a wonderful position to have a
shot at a solo down the road. But as much as I would like to see a
stronger Russia to help Turkey, I would much rather see you with a new army
to strengthen your rear. Also, if we let Russia Sweden, what is going to
protect the empty Norway?
Your ally,
Ivy
p.s. I have received SIX or SEVEN e-mails from France. You too, I
suppose. Give him credit for trying, but I cannot be sweet-talked into a
grave error.
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicholas:
I understand your desire to improve your situation. But
I sincerely believe that going for Sweden is just
hastening your doom. Germany *will not* give it up. I
am basing this on conversations that I have had with him.
If Ivy makes you believe that he will help you, I have to
warn you that he is unbelievably good at getting you to
believe that he is your friend. I was so fooled that I
cannot begin to describe it. Usually I am nervous, last
spring I was not. I was shocked to see him side with
Germany. If he tells you that he will support you to
Sweden it is because he will be taking St. Petes. Trust
me, he is very good.
The best way to turn Germany on England is by putting up
such a strong defense that it seems like a hopeless
battle against me. The next option is to make England
grow quickly. That is less desirable because it will be
very hard to deal with him then and maybe be too late for
both of us.
I implore you to cover St. Petes.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
I realize that you have many messages to deal with.
However I am hoping to at least have a chance to argue my
fate with you before my doom is sealed. I would think
that you would want the same.
If you prefer to talk only strategy and tire of my
philosophical and softer approach. The Dauphin is
willing to deal with your directly. He is very much more
direct. He has already taken over negotiations with
England.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Please do not waste my time with useless messages calling
me a fish or making jokes. If you have business to
attend to, I am more than willing to make the necessary
time. Otherwise, save yourself for the night clubs.
I suggest that you desist from attacking France. Holland
is much easier to take and coupled with Belgium you will
be near the point where you will almost certainly be
impossible to eliminate. Collect Scandinavia and a 8
center England will be in the end game. Any fool can see
that this is your best course of action.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Observer to Observer
Thorf, thanks for the commentary. Some comments
on your comments on my original comments :) :
[talking about Germany's intentions, EG or FG]
> *nodnod* Think I'm mostly agreed on that... but
> I think there *is* a
> bluesky possibility of EFR vs G... but it's
> very low probability. See
> further down.
Ahh, I like it! And I agree it's a possibility.
With the German "misorder" and the French hold in
Por, France might be able to persuade England to
pursue EF. More on this below.
[talking about an IT alliance, and an Italian
stab on Austria this fall in Greece and Tri]
> I'd lay odds on it. It's just too sweet a
> deal... Italy needs to grow
> fast, if he can do it without risking an early
> STL... but I don't
> think there's any likelihood of an early STL.
Agreed.
> England is reasonably clearly hitting France,
> or if not, Germany...
> either way, he's not a concern to Italy of any
> kind.
Agreed.
> France is clearly busy (unless EF are playing a
> deeper game than is
> obvious, but even then, F will still be busy vs
> G) to the north.
Agreed again. There is uncertainty in the West,
which is great news for Italy.
> Russia is waiting to be carved up, so no issue
> there.
Once again we are in agreement.
> Germany is busybusy northwards.
Yet again, agreed, for the reason of uncertainty
in the West. And insofar as Austria AND Russia
will be negatively affected if IT ally, Germany
probably doesn't mind Italy stabbing Austria.
He'll probably support the move, especially since
it gives Italy's A Tyr something to do other than
lurk adjacent to Munich.
> Turkey has a lot of pressure coming at him from
> all sides, and would
> be very happy for some of that pressure to turn
> out to be imaginary.
Yes, and he's in a much better position to side
with Italy than with Austria. In fact he's in no
position to move against Italy right now, with no
southern fleets and his armies in prime
anti-Austrian position in Rum/Bul.
Geographically RT is an easier alliance to hold
together than IT, but in this particular game at
this particular time, Russia is not the ideal
ally for Turkey.
> Austria... hrm. If R is smart, he should be
> pointing out to A that
> Rum is a *much* better target for Austria...
I agree. For anything positive to occur, Russia
needs Austria out of Ukr and Gal to, if possible.
That would give Russia some breathing room to
plot his next move. Right now, his only option
is to defend his home centers.
> and IMO, A should be
> grabbing at Rum. R is now in position to at
> least put up at 50/50
> fight for Mos/War... where A could guarantee
> Rum, if he wanted to.
I agree this makes sense. Hold off on Russia for
now. Austria cannot afford to have two enemies
AND leave his entire backside open to Italy.
> However, as you say, Austria, I think has
> burned his bridges vs R and
> T, and is unlikely to be trusted by either
> party.
True, but if Austria voluntarily retreats from
Russia's terf, and the Italy stabs Austria and
Russia can ascertain that Italy and Turkey will
ally, trust will be secondary to necessity. If
Austria is not in Russia's backyard, it won't
matter as much if R trusts A.
> The interesting tactical question around there
> too is... "What about
> Greece?"
I'd say Italy convoys the army in Tunis to
Greece. However, as you point out below, Turkey
might insist on F Eas - Ion, F Ion - Gre to
bolster IT trust.
> [snippage]
> > AI is not certain, and neither is RT. A
> persuasive argument can be
> > made for IT vs. AR (with Austria attacked
> first, this fall, and then
> > Russia the following year. AR coordination
> probably would not occur
> > until Fall 1903). It would be devastating
> for AR.
>
> Very very agreed on that. And, I think *R*
> should be arguing hard for
> AR... And I suspect that grey press commentary
> about the JuggerNOT may
> well turn out to be correct.
Russia should be arguing hard for AR, but keeping
the options open for RT. Right now he has to
convince AT that going after his [Russia's] home
centers is not the best strategy. He has to walk
the tightrope of appearing to weak to be a threat
but strong enough to be a useful ally to either A
or T.
> > Then again, it could be that Italy and Turkey
> don't like each other
> > personally. That fleet in Eastern Med
> certainly doesn't help.
>
> No, it doesn't, but F Ion->Gre, F EME->Ion, A
> Tyr->Tri would fix all
> of that in one stroke.
True, but then Italy's army remains stranded in
Tunis. I suppose if I were Turkey I'd be arguing
that the army can be easily convoyed the
following spring, to Albania, with support from
the fleet in Greece and without losing any
momentum on the attack.
[F Por HOLD]
> No idea... unless, again, maybe EF *is*
> actually on the cards, or at
> least, F either thinks it could be, or is
> trying to encourage it.
Good point.
> F MAO in fall is *far* less threatening to E
> than F MAO in Spring...
> F MAO->NAO->Lvp, after all, is reasonably
> nasty, whilst F Por->MAO
> isn't anywhere near as nasty, and gives E a
> serious chance to move
> against Germany *now*...
Excellent observation. Makes sense.
> F Nth->Hel, F Lon->Nth, A Bel->Ruh, F Nwy S F
> Bot->Swe, F Eng->Bel...
>
> Not that I think it's *likely*, but it's
> certainly an option I'd be
> talking *very* hard to England and Russia about
> in France's position.
>
> And importantly, F Por now, means that France
> can talk England into
> *doing* the above moveset *without* England
> having to risk France
> stabbing him in a fatal fashion. F Bre->Eng is
> nowhere near as bad as
> F Bre->Eng, F MAO->NAO would be, with the above
> moveset.
Agreed.
Anyone else want to chime in? There have to be
other plausible allinace pairings, right?
Which power will be eliminated first? I had said
Turkey in the beginning, and that's still
possible, but if Thorf and I are correct about
the IT, then the first player out will be
Austria. Certainly what we've seen of his moves
suggest he's caused serious harm to his
reputation in the eyes of Russia and Turkey, and
Italy knows he's done this.
Karlis
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Message from England to France
I sincerely apologize. I did not mean to offend.
Ivy Wingo
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> Your Concerned Friend,
>
I'm getting confused. What exactly are you asking me to do.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Austria
Here is a copy of a message I previously sent you prior to the spring
adjudication.
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: RE: Diplomacy notice: titleist
>
> :: Judge: USIN Game: Titleist Variant: Standard Gunboat
> :: Deadline: S1902M Tue Jul 24 2001 23:30:00 -0500
>
> Message sent to Austria:
>
> Message from Italy to Austria in 'titleist':
>
> > But I would still prefer the army to move to Boh, so that I don't
> > have to consider my vulnerability to a stab which includes Tyr-Tri
> > in the fall.
>
> Russia has told me flat out that if I move to Bohemia, any
> deal involving
> AIR against Turkey would be out of the question. I'd prefer
> to hold in
> Tyrolia until progress has been made on Turkey.
>
> I have no doubts that taking Warsaw from Russia will be a
> simple exercise in
> tactics whenever we decide to make that move.
>
> I'll be much more comfortable moving the army north once I
> have another
> fleet in hand to defend against anything France might have in
> mind and we're
> well on our way to finishing off Turkey.
>
> I understand your analysis and definitely reconsidered the
> move but I think
> it best for Italy to hold Tyrolia at this point. I'm glad to
> hear that it
> will not jeapordize our alliance because I think we have the
> best shot at
> making progress than anybody else. I might be proven wrong
> here shortly,
> but that's what I would think as a side observer just looking at
> the map for the
> first time.
>
> Life is Beautiful,
>
> Roberto
>
> End of message.
>
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
>What exactly are you asking me to do.
My apologies, it was not my intention to confuse
you. Aeg has 3 reasonable moves this Fall.
1) Aeg S Tun-Smy - This takes a Center from Turkey,
a good thing, and gives you a build, not necessarily
a good thing from Austria's perspective.
2) Aeg-Gre - This blocks Bul-Gre (or Tun-Gre), but
is counter-productive unless he's sure one of those
moves will occur.
3) Aeg-Con - This is almost certain to take Con,
since TF Bla has more important things to do and
Smy-Con is unlikely.
Will he take the sure thing (#1), and give you a
build that you may use against him? Or will he choose
option 2 or 3?
Tyl-Tri/Vie, Tun-Gre gives you one or, most
likely, two builds, without relying on Austrian
support for only one build, at the cost of possibly
giving Turkey a build, if Austria doesn't take Rum.
Given your stated opinion of Austria's reliability,
the choice seems like an easy one to make. If he
gets lucky and takes Con, Rum and Mos, do you really
want him building three?
Nicky.
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> It's guaranteed ONLY if Austria orders Aeg S Tun-Smy,
>
Of course, that is what I meant.
> though, and I have a set of orders available to me that gives
> me two builds and forces him to disband one, if Austria guesses
> wrong.
Which can only mean you have an agreement with EG to take Sweden presumably
to build an army and then they take Sweden from you the following year and
you disband the northern fleet. Sounds like a good plan for everybody in
the north.
The second build would come via Sev-Rum support from BLA with Rum-Ser
support from Bul succeeding. I could live with that. Yet, these same set
of moves leave you with the possibility of having only a single center come
the winter if you are betrayed. Can't blame you for taking some risks at
this point though.
> Is he THAT concern about Turkey building a Fleet and
> slowing your growth?
>
Probably not, but if he wants my support in the future, he should be.
>
> Let's just say that you should be less than certain about her
> loyalty to you, and the privacy of the communications channels
> between Vienna and Rome.
>
A little too vague. Got anything more specific?
>
> Let's look at the worst-case scenario for a moment. Austria
> guesses right, takes Mos or War, Rum, and Con, and builds
> three. Are you sure that a 5-Center Turkey with 3 Armies and
> a Fleet in Bla is more threatening to you than that?
>
The worst case scenario you describe should not come to fruition since
Turkey should not issue Smy to hold. Austria has essentially three options
for the Aegean fleet (he can't use it to support an action in Bulgaria since
he can't prevent the retreat to Greece): 1) support Tun-Smy, 2) order
Aeg-Con, or 3) order Aeg-Gre. Near as I can tell, option #3 is extremely
doubtful which leaves either 1 or 2. Turkey should order Smy-Con since if
Austria orders option #1, Turkey would end up in Con anyway after the
retreat and if Austria orders option #2, it would be a bounce. There should
be no guess work involved in Constantinople the fall.
[just read your latest message] continuing....please note the difference in
opinion in the Smyrna order. Perhaps Turkey has told you otherwise.
Given the above moves that you alluded to and that I specified, the only way
for Austria to take Rum AND War/Mos is if you don't defend Mos. To take
Warsaw requires two units; to take Rumania requires two units. He can't do
both if there is an equal attack on Rumania or Rumania simply receives a
support.
At best, Austria should only gain one; at worst, he could take one off
(unless I intervene in which case he could lose up to three).
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Austria
Just so you know, everybody but FG are asking me to stab you (and I suspect
England speaks for Germany as well - I wouldn't expect Germany to directly
ask me to stab you). To calm any fears you may have, it's not going to
happen. I could write a novel as to why but that would simply be wasting my
time to write it and your time to read it.
I do want to make it clear though that I fully expect Tun-Smy to succeed
this fall. My shipbuilders have been hard at work this past year and they
tell me the newest fleet is ready to be commissioned. They are preparing a
big party. And you know how unruly and irrational Italians can get when
their anticipated party is delayed.
In addition, Russia has queried me as to Austrian intentions this fall. Of
course, I don't know anything so I can't tell him anything unless, of
course, you'd like me to pass along some 'juicy information' that may or may
not be accurate.
Needless to say, RT intentions are a state secret. They do appear to have
several options at their disposal. Let me know if you care to discuss
possible moves and counter-moves.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Germany
France has requested Tyr-Mun. I'm assuming this will screw up your plans,
but, if it doesn't, perhaps I can fool France into thinking I might be on
his side. Of course, I will not make the order without your explicit
written instructions.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to France
>
> What if I said pretty please? Got down on my knees and
> begged?
>
Can I have a date with the Dauphin's sister? That way, when Armstrong wins
the Tour, Ivy would just get the 'sloppy seconds'. :)
Seriously, I'll give it some thought but it's unlikely at this time.
Roberto
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
>Can I have a date with the Dauphin's sister? That way,
>when Armstrong wins the Tour, Ivy would just get the
>'sloppy seconds'. :)
We have no sisters that we know of. However many Kings
do have illegitamate children. If we discovery any, we
will let you know.
I do thank you for considering my request on Munich. I
understand why you do not wish to attack it. But let me
give you some incentive. Your attacking Munich will
guarantee that I get to Burgundy, which in turn will put
me in position to work with you on taking Munich.
There is no reason that Italy and France can not be more
active allies. Even if you decline this season, since it
is a fall turn. I hope that you would consider building
and army in Venice and then moving to Bohemia and
Tyrolia. Munich could be yours in a way that you could
keep.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Italy to France
>
> >Can I have a date with the Dauphin's sister? That way,
> >when Armstrong wins the Tour, Ivy would just get the
> >'sloppy seconds'. :)
> We have no sisters that we know of. However many Kings
> do have illegitamate children. If we discovery any, we
> will let you know.
>
I'll admit to being slightly confused in the Tour prize as the Dauphin gets
a date with Ivy's sister, not the other way around, but I do recall
something about a 90-year old chamber maid being the assistant to your
sister. I understand you wanting to protect your sister from the 'Great
Roberto', but, if you want a favor in Munich, you're going to have to cough
her up. :)
> Even if you decline this season, since it
> is a fall turn. I hope that you would consider building
> and army in Venice and then moving to Bohemia and
> Tyrolia. Munich could be yours in a way that you could
> keep.
>
I will most definitely keep this in mind. In return, would it be possible
for you to send good word to Austria about the importance of supporting my
convoy to Tunis?
Roberto
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
Even if you will not consider betraying England this
year, I think that you should deny him a build. That
keeps your options open for next year.
I expect that Ivy will be bamboozling Russia into leaving
St. Petes open. All you have to do is let Russia know
that you will be taking Sweden without a doubt and he
will therefore resign himself to protecting St. Petes.
This would prevent England from getting a build without
it looking like you had a hand in it.
I do hope that will put some thought to turning on his
this year. The sooner the better in terms of the time
available to finish him off before IA come a calling.
Specifically, you make sure that Russia knows that you
will be supporting yourself to Sweden and inform him that
England will be going for St. Petes, which you encourage
England to do. This allows you to walk right into Sweden
and allows Denmark to attack the North Sea. It might
even make it in. At a minimum it breaks support for
Belgium and you could support Picardy to Belgium.
I am sure that you could arrange the situation
differently so that Belgium could fall and you could
still support yourself to Sweden. I am obviously not
privy to all the details that you and England worked out.
If you do not stab him soon, he will be impossible to
eliminate.
Just let me know.
-- Prince Boar
PS: Please tell Ivy that there is no need for him to
apologize for insulting the Dauphin. The Dauphin has
thick skin and things do not bother him. At the same
time he probably will not take the time to respond since
it is not necessary to his military operation. I hoped
to pass this message through you to Ivy. (Thanks)
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
> > I have a set of orders available to me that gives
> > me two builds and forces him to disband one,
>Which can only mean you have an agreement with EG to take Sweden presumably
>to build an army and
>then they take Sweden from you the following year and you disband the
>northern fleet.
It does sound like a good plan, but I don't
have the agreement, unfortuantely. France maintains
that Ivy's going to StP for the quick build, and
Germany is taking Swe. Germany has yet to respond
to my proposal.
>The second build would come via Sev-Rum support from BLA with Rum-Ser
>support from Bul succeeding.
Yes, and that seems unlikely to me, frankly.
>Is he THAT concerned about Turkey building a Fleet and slowing your growth?
>Probably not, but if he wants my support in the
>future, he should be.
Yes, but he hasn't shown any real vision of
the future up until now, has he?
> > you should be less certain about the privacy of
> > the communications channels between Vienna and Rome.
>A little too vague. Got anything more specific?
France expects Nwy-StP, Bal-Swe, but Austria
seems certain that EG will let me take Swe.
>The worst case scenario you describe should not
>come to fruition since Turkey should not issue
>Smy to hold.
I agree, but Ali seems to expect Aeg-Gre, which
lets Smy HOLD deny you the build.
>At best, Austria should only gain one; at worst,
>he could take one off (unless I intervene in which
>case he could lose up to three).
Hmmm, your characterization of best-case,
worst-case differs from mine considerably. I wish you
well with your Austrian ally, but will just point out
that stabbing Austria now gives you two builds almost
certainly, while relying on his support gives you one,
if and only if Austria remains faithful.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Italy to England and Germany
My reporters are out and about collecting nominations for the 1902 Titleist
awards. They've uncovered some noteworthy nominations including 'Nwy-Stp'
and 'Bal s Den-Swe'. Exactly how accurate are these nominations?
Van Lingle Mungo
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I did have a sister. But she was an Ivy supporter and
when he betrayed us, the Dauphin had her beheaded.
(Acutally I hid her in a Nunnery and the chambermaid was
sent to the guillotine. If I can sneak her out of the
country I will send her your way.)
>In return, would it be possible for you to send good
>word to Austria about the importance of supporting my
>convoy to Tunis?
Why do you want to convoy to Tunis? You are already
there? I am guessing you mean the convoy from Tunis to
Smyrna. I will mention it when I write to Ms. Felicia.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to France
Prince Boar,
>I understand your desire to improve your situation. But Germany *will not*
>give [Sweden] up.
I will be rather surprised if I get Swe, myself.
Ivy has not offered more than verbal support, and I
don't expect him to, but I believe that between the
two of us, we might be able to convince Fredd of the
wisdom of letting me take Swe. If they don't, Germany
is likely to be facing Austrian Armies before EG
have eliminated you, and he certainly will be if
England takes StP.
>I implore you to cover St. Petes.
I understand and acknowledge your concern, but
I believe that Ivy sees that the short-term advantage
of taking StP is outweighed by the mid-term
consequences.
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Italy to France
> Why do you want to convoy to Tunis? You are already
> there? I am guessing you mean the convoy from Tunis to
> Smyrna. I will mention it when I write to Ms. Felicia.
>
I hate it when I type too fast for my brain. Smyrna indeed. A convoy to
Tunis at this point would be a really bad move.
Roberto
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> France expects Nwy-StP, Bal-Swe, but Austria
> seems certain that EG will let me take Swe.
>
I've sent my nominations crew to EG to uncover the truth.
>
> I wish you well with your Austrian ally, but will
> just point out that stabbing Austria now gives you
> two builds almost certainly, while relying on his
> support gives you one, if and only if Austria remains
> faithful.
>
I'm getting the impression that you see IR relations deteriorating. I
thought you wanted me to move to EMS to relieve pressure on Sev. Once that
occurred, I don't see the advantage to Italy to upset yet another neighbor.
I'm still hopeful that the IR alliance will eventually work but in my mind
Turkey must be eliminated first.
If there is a set of moves to prevent both Austria AND Turkey from gaining a
build, I'm all for executing those moves. Barring that, my preference is to
continue against Turkey (whom I've already clearly upset) rather than taking
on another front against Austria at this time.
Roberto
Message from France to Russia
Czar Nicholas:
>I understand and acknowledge your concern, but
>I believe that Ivy sees that the short-term advantage
>of taking StP is outweighed by the mid-term
>consequences.
I am sorry that I am being so push about this. You see
that it is my fate that is also tied up in this and I am
of course more focussed on that. The choice is
ultimately yours. I gave you my opinion and will leave
it alone now. We in France pray that we will not be
saying that we told you so. Good luck.
Germany knows that I want to work with him, although he
has yet to acknowledge my messages. He knows that you
want to work with him as well. Tell him that 3 on 1 is
better than 2 on 2.
I have stopped bothering to negotiate with Ivy. I do not
need to hear hollow assurances and weak excuses.
Bonne Chance
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto,
>I thought you wanted me to move to EMS to relieve
>pressure on Sev.
Yes, I did, and it has, though I did drop you
a note saying you didn't have to move to EMed as
Turkey spoke up, and it became increasingly clear
how insincere Austria was and is.
>I'm still hopeful that the IR alliance will
>eventually work but in my mind Turkey must be
>eliminated first.
I would welcome IR, but I suspect that by the
time Turkey is eliminated, Austria will be so large,
and I will be so small, that IR vs. A will not be
practical. I could gain two this year, if I order
Sev-Rum, GoB-Swe, and properly defend War/Mos/Sev,
but I suspect the most likely result is a 50-50
chance of staying even, or losing one.
>my preference is to continue against Turkey (whom
>I've already clearly upset) rather than taking
>on another front against Austria at this time.
I understand that, but in my view, even if
Turkey builds F Con, he's still not a threat to
you, especially if you build two from Austrian
Centers. Ali is likely to cooperate with IRT
vs. A, in the hope of following up with RT vs. I,
and I think that you risk having Austria grow too
large if you don't stab now. If you continue to
work with Austria, I'll continue to talk to you,
and hope to survive long enough to work with you,
but I'm not optomistic.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
Austria is still trying to convince me that my best bet would be to tell him
all my moves and attack you. So he's certainly not telling me anything
useful. I do believe, though, that Austria's misdirected press was genuine,
so I think it gives us an insight into what he's thinking. He hasn't given
me any indication that he's realized his mistake, and I certainly haven't
mentioned it to anyone but you, though we should assume he's figured it out
by now. I was particularly interested in this part:
> More likely, I think, is one of Bul-Gre, Rum-Bul, Bla s Sev-Rum; or Bul s
> Rum-Ser, Bla s Sev-Rum. What I'd like would be a move set that doesn't
lose
> an SC to either of these, and either gains one against at least one of
these
> or gives me a viable guess against Russia.
Now, I'm sure he's promised Italy a center, and it's a promise he has to
keep to maintain Italy as an ally. If he supports the convoy to Smy,
though, there's no way he can sumultaneously defend against Bul-Gre and Bul
S Rum-Ser. At least, not that I've seen. Covering Greece would mean
Ser-Gre, which would imply Bud-Ser, Gal-Bud to cover those as well, but
that's very unlikely and doesn't protect against Bul S Rum-Ser. He can
protect Ser with Bud S Ser, leaving Gal free to attack Rum or Warsaw, but
that doesn't cover Greece.
So, I can't see a combination that does what he wants. Since he's promised
a center to Italy, and since he can't protect himself if Aeg S Tun-Smy, then
he may have Italy attack Greece instead of Smy, but only if he can be
assured of an offsetting center. That may mean something like Tun-Gre,
Aeg-Bul, Ser/Bud S Gal-Rum, Ukr-Mos. But that's just a wild guess on my
part. In any case, this still doesn't guarantee Italy a center, since I
might bounce him in Gre. Even if he supports from Ser, that support could
be cut. If we stay along this line of thinking, the alternative would be to
give him Vie or Tri, but I think that's getting pretty far-fetched.
So, the bottom line is, I don't see any way he can get Italy a build without
some risk that he'll lose something himself. If he comes to this
realization, he'll probably do one of two things: (a) renig on his promise
to Italy, or (b) pick the attack he thinks is mose likely and defend against
it. Option (a) would be a godsend, and I'm not expecting it. Option (b)
means he has a 50/50 chance at holding Gre or Ser, and a 50/50 chance of
gaining War or Mos, meaning at least some chance of losing a unit. He might
figure he's better off risking either Ser or Gre, if he can ensure he gains
a center, but the only thing he can really guarnatee is Rumania. However,
if he puts 3 units on Rum, then he must forego any attack on you at all.
I don't know if any of this train of thought is helpful or not. I guess I
expect him to put most of his energy in the south, to attack Rum. This may
mean at most a potshot at Moscow. His promise to support Italy to Smyrna
puts a strain on his southern position, so I guess a supported attack on
Warsaw seems less likely. Of course this is speculation, but that's all
I've got to go on.
Unfortunately it doesn't help much with what we can do to respond. Bul S
Rum-Ser, Bla S Sev-Rum is reasonably strong, except that it's one of the
specific attacks he's planning to defend against. Another idea would be a
sort of scatter-gun approach, along the lines of Lvn-Mos, War-Gal, Rum-Gal,
Bul-Gre, Bla-Con. This would cut Gal's support for either War or Rum, but
it has a much weaker chance that I'll either gain something from Austria or
hold onto Rum. But, it might provide a reasonable defense.
For lack of anything better, here are the orders I'm entering now with Wait
set: Rum-Gal, Bla S Sev-Rum, Bul-Gre, Smy Hold. This leaves Con open, but I
think Austria is more likely to either support Tun-Smy or attack Bul to cut
support. Please write as soon as you can with your thoughts, since the
deadline is tonight. Especially, please write at once if you're not
ordering Sev-Rum, so I can do something else with Bla.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to Italy
Roberto,
>From the tone of your press, it seems you feel your course is set. However,
I would be remiss if I didn't make a last-ditch appeal to you. As you
pointed out, no blood has been shed between us yet. I think I can safely
say, you'll never have a better opportunity to stab Austria than you do
right now. You can waltz into either Vie or Tri, and Greece is still yours
if you want it.
In the short term, you'll be stronger with two builds than the one that
you'd gain in Smyrna. In the long term, you would be better off by virtue
of your ownership of Austrian centers, giving you a strong central position,
and you'd have a land-based Turkey who would basically do whatever you want
in gratitude for your friendship. Russia is unlikely to gain anything this
turn, meaning he'd still be weak, but strong enough to apply the pressure
needed to make Austria collapse quickly. There is no downside; you'll still
have unquestioned supremacy in the Mediterranean waters, and you'll have a
stronger position going into the mid-game.
Alternatively, if you stick with Austria, then he will grow more quickly
than you. At present, there is no way to retaliate against Italy; all my
attacks are against Austria. However, if it becomes evident that I'm headed
for a hasty exit, I'll probably throw my support to the Austrian in the end.
If you stick with me, you can have whatever Austrian or Baltic centers you
want. If you stick with Austria, you'd need to gain Greece and all of
Turkey to make it worthwhile; and I don't see Austria agreeing to all of
that. A/R conflict is firmly established, and the time has never been
better for us to cooperate instead of fighting each other.
I hope you will consider the above. It's not too late to turn things
around.
Ali Baba
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
> For lack of anything better, here are the orders I'm entering
> now with Wait set: Rum-Gal, Bla S Sev-Rum, Bul-Gre, Smy Hold.
> This leaves Con open, but I think Austria is more likely to
> either support Tun-Smy or attack Bul to cut support.
I worry about Austria going for the gusto with Ukr-Mos,
Gal & Bud S Ser-Rum, Aeg-Con, and building 3 if they all work.
If he orders Aeg S Tun-Smy, though, you won't build and there
will be an Italian Army in Smy, which will prove a major
distraction, so that seems most likely to me. You might order
Smy-Con, though, to bounce Aeg-Con, or to perhaps shift into
Bul if we make progress in the Balkans.
I've pointed out to Italy that Tyl-Tri, Tun-Gre gains
him two without relying on Austria, while Tun-Smy gets him
one, if and only if Austria supports him. How late will you
be available tonight? I favor Bla S Sev-Rum at this point,
since a build would help me a lot, but sort of lean toward
Bul-Gre, Rum-Bul as being a bit more likely to work. (Wouldn't
it be ironic if Bul-Gre bounced of Tun-Gre, though? 8-)
Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Mr. Mungo,
Now that I have an official partner, I must be more careful about comments
on policy. State secrets, ya know.
However, it just so happens that I have not heard from Germany since the
last moves, so there are no state secrets! Thats right, Germany has not
written. I should have known what I was getting into.
So, I will say this. It is unlikely that I will attempt Norway-StP. Can
you tell me why I should consider this? Doesn't it just make Austria's job
easier?
As for Sweden, I fully expect German to take Sweden.
I am very serious, Roberto (now I address Roberto, not Mungo), when I say
that Austria is in a very commanding position and as his ally you have the
primary responsibility of keeping him in check.
Ivy Wingo
>
>Message from Italy to England and Germany in 'titleist':
>
>My reporters are out and about collecting nominations for the 1902 Titleist
>awards. They've uncovered some noteworthy nominations including 'Nwy-Stp'
>and 'Bal s Den-Swe'. Exactly how accurate are these nominations?
>
>Van Lingle Mungo
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
> I worry about Austria going for the gusto with Ukr-Mos,
> Gal & Bud S Ser-Rum, Aeg-Con, and building 3 if they all work.
If he does that, where will Italy get a build? If Italy doesn't get a
build, he'll be royally pissed, and Austria surely knows it. Recall Italy's
expressed concern that 3/4 of his units would be useless without Austria's
support.
> If he orders Aeg S Tun-Smy, though, you won't build and there
> will be an Italian Army in Smy, which will prove a major
> distraction, so that seems most likely to me.
Me too. I think if I were in his shoes, the tactical advantage of an army
in Smy would be an important factor.
> You might order
> Smy-Con, though, to bounce Aeg-Con, or to perhaps shift into
> Bul if we make progress in the Balkans.
I guess my thinking was that if Austria orders Aeg-Bul, then I want to be
sure Italy doesn't build as a result. I'd hate to simply move aside and let
the Italian army in unopposed. I'd rather ensure that if Smy is lost, then
the unit is dislodged so it can retreat to Ankara.
> I've pointed out to Italy that Tyl-Tri, Tun-Gre gains
> him two without relying on Austria, while Tun-Smy gets him
> one, if and only if Austria supports him.
I've written him with the same argument, although the one press I've got
from him since the result seems to indicate that he's pretty well made up
his mind. Still, no harm trying.
> How late will you
> be available tonight?
I'll be leaving in a few hours and will not be back until about 10:30 PM
Pacific time. I believe that's after the deadline unfortunately. However,
we've at least got the next few hours if you're online.
> I favor Bla S Sev-Rum at this point,
> since a build would help me a lot, but sort of lean toward
> Bul-Gre, Rum-Bul as being a bit more likely to work. (Wouldn't
> it be ironic if Bul-Gre bounced of Tun-Gre, though? 8-)
It would be, at that. The main reason for Rum-Gal was to cut any support
for Warsaw; but if you don't feel it's helpful then I'll do something else
with Rum. Bla S Sev-Rum has been ordered, and I'll leave that unchanged.
I didn't really consider Austria ordering Ser-Rum. It might work,
especially if he supports from Aeg, but then we're back to the question of
where will Italy build. I was thinking that if Bul moved to Gre, the
highest risk of losing Bul is from Aeg-Bul, and that fleet being in Bul/sc
would really diminish its effectiveness.
For some reason the combination of Ser S Tun-Gre, Aeg-Bul, with Bud, Gal and
Ukr all working on Rum, is starting to seem viable. At least, I think
that's their best way of getting Italy a build while ensuring that Austria
doesn't lose anything to me. Unfortunately, there's no way to counter that
without War attacking Gal, and you didn't seem too enthusiastic about that.
The best defense I see against that attack would be Bul-Gre, Rum-Ser. This
would not protect Rum, but it would keep Italy out of Greece.
Is this too far-fetched though? The obvious move is Aeg S Tun-Smy, in which
case I will have an opportunity in Gre or Ser if I guess right. I guess if
you don't want to do a mutual support-cut of either Gal or Ukr, then I'll
either order Bul S Rum-Ser or Bul-Gre, Rum-Bul. Still not really happy with
any of these so far, but I'll keep looking. Meanwhile, let's keep talking,
I think it's helpful. If you're satisfied that I'm on your side, you might
give some hint of what you're planning with Lvn/War, that might affect how
best to utilize Rum.
Just for the record, I consider you and me to be squarely in the same boat.
I believe we will either fail or prevail together, and we've got a better
chance of getting through this if we move as one force.
Regards,
Ali
Message from Austria to Italy
> In addition, Russia has queried me as to Austrian intentions this fall.
> Of course, I don't know anything so I can't tell him anything unless, of
> course, you'd like me to pass along some 'juicy information' that may or
> may not be accurate.
I can't think of anything to pass on.
If I were sure of Bla s Sev-Rum, I could get cute, with Bud s Sev-Rum.
Unwanted support that does more than ruin a self-bounce.
Do you have any suggestions or particular moves you'd like, besides Aeg s
Tun-Smy?
Idalia, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
Quickly because I'm about to leave work, I'm not ruling
out Rum-Ukr, I actually toyed with War S Rum-Ukr, Lvn-Mos to
destroy A Ukr if Austria orders Ukr-Mos, but my first thought
was for you to try to take Gre or Ser. I'll think about it
on the bus ride home, and write again. The War/Lvn choice is
tough because it's an, "If you're right you're safe, if you're
wrong you lose a Center." choice.
Nick.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
I'm starting to think that the best thing to do is attack Serbia. It seems
that if Gal/Ukr are both used on Warsaw, then Serbia may be under-defended.
So, if he takes Warsaw, there's a good chance that Rum-Ser might succeed,
and you'd gain Rum to offset it. If my attack fails, then it's probably
because Gal was used against Rum, meaning you wouldn't gain Rum but would
keep Warsaw. Does this make any sense?
In any case I've changed my orders to Bul S Rum-Ser. Still some time to
think it over. Let me know what you think.
Ali
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ukr S Gal-War uses two Units to give a 50% chance of one Center.
Ukr-Mos gives the same return at only a one Unit cost, and leaves
Gal available to influence Rum, so I'm going to assume that Austria
will order Ukr-Mos, and order Lvn-Mos to bounce it. Gal-Bud,
Bud-Ser, Ser-Gre uses three Units to defend one Center and risks
the loss of Rum, so I doubt that will happen. So, we should see
either Bud S Ser, Ser S Gal-Rum, or two Supports for an attack on
Rum. If I'm correct, Bla S Sev-Rum will at best bounce, so Sev S Rum,
Bla S Rum, Bul-Gre, makes more sense, I think. What do you think?
Nick.
Message from Italy to England
> It is unlikely that I will attempt Norway-StP. Can
> you tell me why I should consider this? Doesn't it just make
> Austria's job easier?
>
No and yes respectively. I would encourage you not to take STP this fall.
> As for Sweden, I fully expect German to take Sweden.
>
As do I. I see no reason why Germany would not. The question is, which
unit moves and which supports?
However, if you and Germany were interested in slowly down Austria, letting
Russia into Sweden (and not taking STP) would be a good thing, no?
> I am very serious, Roberto (now I address Roberto, not
> Mungo), when I say that Austria is in a very commanding
> position and as his ally you have the
> primary responsibility of keeping him in check.
>
I understand and realize that you will keep reminding me of this fact. I
will do my best to fulfill your wishes and keep Austria in check.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Italy to Austria
>
> I can't think of anything to pass on.
>
Didn't think so. Like he'd believe me anyway.
> If I were sure of Bla s Sev-Rum, I could get cute, with Bud s Sev-Rum.
> Unwanted support that does more than ruin a self-bounce.
>
That would be an interesting situation although I would think the above move
would be accompanied by Bul s Rum-Ser in which case Serbia would be
dislodged.
> Do you have any suggestions or particular moves you'd like,
> besides Aeg s Tun-Smy?
>
I can't see one set of moves that is better than another. There are a lot
of possibilities and it's a matter of 'out-guessing' the opponent. I wish
you luck my friend.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
> Ukr S Gal-War uses two Units to give a 50% chance of one Center.
> Ukr-Mos gives the same return at only a one Unit cost, and leaves
> Gal available to influence Rum, so I'm going to assume that Austria
> will order Ukr-Mos, and order Lvn-Mos to bounce it. Gal-Bud,
> Bud-Ser, Ser-Gre uses three Units to defend one Center and risks
> the loss of Rum, so I doubt that will happen. So, we should see
> either Bud S Ser, Ser S Gal-Rum, or two Supports for an attack on
> Rum. If I'm correct, Bla S Sev-Rum will at best bounce, so Sev S Rum,
> Bla S Rum, Bul-Gre, makes more sense, I think. What do you think?
This makes sense to me. Ok, I've adjusted my orders to Bul-Gre, Bla S Rum.
I'm ordering Rum S War-Gal for lack of anything better to do with it.
Hopefully next year I can move Rum to Ser or Bul, and you can take Rum.
Either way, though, we should ensure Austria doesn't get it.
I'll probably be out of e-mail contact for the rest of the day. Perhaps
someone will be late and we'll have a chance to diplome further if anything
comes up. My orders are in as described above. I'll try to check my mail
again some time before the deadline; please write when you can, I may be
able to reply but can't guarantee it.
Anyway, best of luck in the result!
Ali
Message from Turkey to Russia
Nick,
I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but Rum S War-Gal is a good
way to defeat Ukr S Gal-War, as long as Rum isn't attacked. It leaves the
risk, though, of your moving to Gal and allowing Ukr-War. In any case you
may have other intentions for War. If you'd rather I not order the support,
please let me know and I'll change it to a hold if I can.
Ali
Message from Russia to Turkey
>Rum S War-Gal is a good way to defeat Ukr S Gal-War,
>as long as Rum isn't attacked.
The support is fine.
N.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Any word from Fredd, or the East?
Nick.
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto, My Friend,
Do you remain committed to Tun-Gre? If so adding Tyl-Vie/Tri would
keep Austria and Turkey from building... (You asked for a way to do it. 8-)
It would make you the dominant Power in the East, (something Italy rarely
accomplishes in 1902, and should even give you a two-unit advantage over
any one of ART. I would do my best to keep Turkey focused on Austria,
and pressure Ferdinand from the Northeast, so holding your gains, and
continuing to grow shouldn't be a problem.
Just an Idea,
Nicky.
Message from Russia to Germany
Freddy,
It's been some time since I've heard from you, so I thought I'd ask
again that you allow me to take Sweden this year, while you advance
on France. Next year, if you need the build, you can take it, and I'll
disband the Fleet, but right now, I need a third Army to retake Ukr,
and hold off Austria. Keeping the East stalemated will give you the
time you need to conquer France, and without another Army, Austria
only needs one lucky guess to force me to collapse. Please consider
the wisdom of my request.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to France
And so, we wait for the axe to fall... Hearing anything interesting
from
the East? I've selected my moves, and I'm trying desperately to not start
erasing answers on the multiple-choice form. Still no word from Germany.
The weasel could at least tell me, 'No, I'm taking Sweden!' *grumble* Is
it 23:30, yet?
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
8:30 Thursday evening. No word from Freddy since the moves. The person I
selected for my ally.
What have I done?
The Boar is quite upset with me and he is probably right.
Ivy
>Ivy,
>
> Any word from Fredd, or the East?
>
>Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
> > As for Sweden, I fully expect German to take Sweden.
> >
>
>As do I. I see no reason why Germany would not. The question is, which
>unit moves and which supports?
If I were Germany I would never enter Sweden from Baltic. A Russian fleet
in the Baltic would be a huge headache. Why take the chance?
>However, if you and Germany were interested in slowly down Austria, letting
>Russia into Sweden (and not taking STP) would be a good thing, no?
This is probably too much to ask of Freddy.
Yeah, Freddy. The one I selected for my ally. He has not written since
the last moves. Unthinkable. What have I done?
The Boar is quite upset with me and he is probably right.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fred,
I don't expect to be able to check my e-mail again this evening.
I miss your friendly voice. Hope all is well with you.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> 8:30 Thursday evening. No word from Freddy since the moves.
>The person I selected for my ally.
If it's any consolation, I haven't heard from him either, though
Boar claims he's said that he has claimed Swe. (I suspect that's
to encourage me to retreat to StP, though.)
> What have I done?
Umm, made a mistake?
> The Boar is quite upset with me and he is probably right.
Well, there is the Nwy S GoB-Swe, Nth S Bel-Hol, Eng-Bel,
followed by much groveling option. You've done France no real
harm, so he's likely to accept the upturn in his fortunes with good
graces. I'll certainly lobby on your behalf.
Your Friend,
Nicky.
Message from Germany to Italy
> > After further investigation, the following appears to be true.
> > England didn't know about MOS-STP.
>
> I'm not too sure about this. Shortly after the S1901 moves came in, I got a
> message from England. It was a "lots of conservative moves", just staying
> in touch type message. At the end, he says "just wondering if you knew why
> Russia moved to *FIN*" [emphasis mine]. Mind you, this was after the spring
> moves and Russia had only moved to STP. It was a slip and one I don't even
> think he knows he did. But, it makes me tend to think he knew about the
> move to STP and that it would be going to Finland.
Russia and England have said that Russia told England that the army in
STP would move to FIN right after the moves processed. This is probably
why he wrote FIN.
More to follow as I read down my long list of mail.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Master
Doug: Can I have a day extension? The reason is that I'm not ready. A
shitty reason, but there it is.
Germany
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Lots to talk about.
#1 would be my lack of being timely with my mail. I would imagine that
it's disturbing. I know there have been times when the shoe is on the
other foot that it's gotten under my skin. Well hopefully the amount of
mail will diminish now. Previous to our making the moves that we said
we would, it was best to keep on everyone's good side. Now I can
concentrate on a little more.
BG> Unless Italy has to fight in the East! Wow, Diploman, this game >is
really complicated! So England and
>Germany are promoting the RT alliance so they don't have to share the >spoils in France?
Actually no. I expect you to pick up the spoils of France. And I will
be attacking Sweden this turn. From the Baltic. I'll build an army if
I get it.
I asked Doug for a day extension. If he doesn't give it, then I'll be
late. I'll enter orders about 18 hours after the current deadline. I'll
be checking my mail twice between now and then.
I've read all the emails. Now it's time to reply. I too have 6 or 7
emails from France. No wonder I'm slow in responding.
I think that I'll hold Munich this time. Make sure Italy isn't being
cute. Like you said it won't work anyway.
BAL - SWE as stated above.
KIE will either support HOL or move to RUH. ;-)
HOL will support BEL or KIE - RUH
I see your point about moving DEN away from the NTH. But I don't think
that we have that level of trust yet between us where I'll leave a
center open to you on a fall move. If everything goes as planned I'll
move SWE - BOT and DEN - BAL next spring and commence an attack on STP.
Course there will be a Russian fleet to contend with.
I see our relationship as being built successfully. We're moving step by
step now. I can get a build this turn. You can thwart that. But I do
promise to build an army with it. In Berlin. then that army will move
east. I don't think that you'll feel threatened by that. I can't see
myself building again next year. But perhaps the year after. We have to
work on getting you some builds.
Looking over the board, France will be a tough nut to crack. You'll
need three fleets to break into the MAO. I see that you can't do that
until next fall. We really won't be able to push through on land. But
we'll have to take Burgundy. And since you only have one army I'll have
to take it.
All in all we need to discuss balancing our builds better. I can
see that I'm going to be out in front of you. I don't want to do that
as it'll unbalance our alliance. I'm going to have two fleets and an
army on Russia soon. With that I can break through. At the same time
you'll be slugging it out with France, while I'm the one who will be
leading the charge into France. MAR will be exposed to me for sure.
What would you like to happen in the next two years? It'll be that
long before you can take Brest. I'm thinking that maybe we shouldn't
push into BUR. I don't like the idea of me being in BUR and threatening
to start taking French units. I think that will make you very
suspicious, and the chances of you attacking me go way up. All before
France loses a piece. That's a recipe for disaster.
Fredd
Message from France to Russia
>And so, we wait for the axe to fall... Hearing anything
>interesting from the East?
Only that Turkey is aligned with you. Italy does not
seem 100% confident of Austria, but he often says things
just to try and confuse me.
>I've selected my moves, and I'm trying desperately to
>not start erasing answers on the multiple-choice form.
I hope you choose the safe thing.
>Still no word from Germany.
>The weasel could at least tell me, 'No, I'm taking
>Sweden!'
He does not have to lie to you if he does not write. I
hear little from his as well.
I have a dilemma my friend. If I have to choose where to
concentrate my defenses where do I slack off. On one
had I have the master betrayer who I believe made the
wrong choice and shamelessly lied to me. I do not want
him
to succeed because I want him to eventually realize that
he made the wrong choice. But then on the other I have
the weasel who does not have the decency to answer my
messages either. :-) I want to punish them both, but
will
have to choose! :-)
>Is it 23:30, yet?
Patience! :-)
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Wingo:
There is no need to apologize. Your insults mean nothing
to me really. I know whom and what I am.
I do not want you to think that France refuses to
communicate with you. However, you have made it very
clear
that you will not consider siding with France. I will
show you that you made the wrong choice. By the way,
some
ally that you got there. It is just a matter of time
before he lets you down. A moment that I will cherish.
Perhaps I waste my breath, but there is still time for
you to take Holland. Yes, France will be set back from
where
we could have been. But we would still choose to
cautiously work with you. If a very slow elimination and
the
eventual transfer of much of our territory to Italy is
our other option, then why wouldn't we.
If it is Prince Boar that causes your cowardly heart so
much fear, I would be happy to lock him in the Bastille
and
throw away the key. I would handle all the negotiations
in the same manner which I deal with you. Do not worry
about him, he would glad sacrifice his freedom for the
good of France.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Germany
Frederick:
I am truly disappointed that you did not bother to answer
any of my messages. Perhaps you were busy. But would
a simple "I am considering it" or a "I can't do that
right now, but hang on and an opportunity might come up
soon" be
so much trouble. If England betrays you, you might need
me.
At this point my orders will not change. Just do
something similar to what I asked and we can work from
there.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Austria
Ms. Felicia:
Italy wanted to me to ask you to support his convoy to
Smyrna. I suspect he was joking in that I could either
have
any influence over you or that you would consider doing
otherwise.
I actually would not mind Italy building. I may need
help defending my homeland and an extra fleet would be
handy.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Turkey
Ali Baba:
I have been desperately trying to talk Russia into
protecting St. Petes. He thinks that he has may have a
shot at
Sweden. I see 0% chance at that happening. I do not
want him to weaken by losing St. Petes. I also do not
want
England to build another fleet.
Anything you can do to influence him, please do. But
since I sent so many messages to him about it, I ask you
not to
mention to him that I asked you to do this. Thanks.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to Austria and Italy
Ms. Felicia and Roberto
CC: Austrian Ambassador to Italy
I would like to formally apply to join your alliance. It
seems the best thing going around here. Here are my
qualifications:
* I am a lot of fun
* I communicate often
* I am reliable
* I am willing to discuss and work out agreed upon plans,
not try to force my own
* I happen to have access to the other side of both
stalemate lines you need to cross in Germany and into the
Atlantic
* I am the thing that is holding back your rival
alliance in England and Germany
My only request is that you keep me alive and that you
allow me the satisfaction of extracting revenge.
I realize that we will need to wait until after this move
to finalize an agreement. I just want to submit this
application
as soon as possible.
I really look forward to working with you guys. I hear
that A&I is a great place to work and grow a career as a
puppet and vigilante.
-- Prince Boar
Message from France to all
Tour de France Stage 17 Results:
Aside from a stab by the Germans (Jan Ullrich's team runs
over lance Armstong) it is apparent that England will win
out TdF game. Barring injury, Lance Armstrong will
certainly hold on to the Yellow Jersey. The only
interesting
battle is for the Green Jersey (sprinters points).
O'Grady leads Zabel by 11 points, but has lost a point
each day.
They are awarded based on the first so many riders to
cross the finish line and at some intermediate places.
That
race may come down to the final sprint into Paris.
Serge Baguet won today's stage. No points were awarded
in our game.
Official Tally:
Austria (Domo-Farm Frites): 0 points
England (USPS): 30 points
France (Festina): 10 points
Germany (Telekom): 20 points
Italy (Fassa Bortolo): 10 points
Russia (Robobank): 20 points
Turkey (CSC): 20 points
Doug (O.N.C.E.): 0 points
Selected Standings:
1. Lance Armstrong (USP)
2. Jan Ullrich (TEL) @ 5:05
3. Andrei Kivilev (COF) @ 5:13
4. Joseba Beloki (ONC)@ 6:33
-- Prince Boar
Message from Observer to Observer
> > P.S. Brian asked why France held in Portugal. Good question. I'm
> > not sure myself.
<snip>
>F MAO in fall is *far* less threatening to E than F MAO in Spring...
>F MAO->NAO->Lvp, after all, is reasonably nasty, whilst F Por->MAO
>isn't anywhere near as nasty, and gives E a serious chance to move
>against Germany *now*...
<snip>
>And importantly, F Por now, means that France can talk England into
>*doing* the above moveset *without* England having to risk France
>stabbing him in a fatal fashion
Aha! France makes a "poor" tactical move, because it gives him (or rather,
England) more strategic choices -- the alternative being a slow death againt
an EG attack. It also means that France probably is not getting any
promises of help from the east.
My thanks for the comments -- exactly why I'm watching this game and trying
to understand. Very interested to see if IT alliance happens this turn as
discussed.
Brian.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Message from Germany to France
Prince Boar:
Hope you don't think that I've been ignoring you because we bounced you
in BUR again. And it looks all the world like EG are taking you on.
I've just been busy the last two days. I've asked for an extension
because my mail is so back up. In fact I just sent my first piece off
to England as well. You can use that to drive a wedge between us.
Saying that it's not good to have an ally who responds erratically. But
then I'm sure you're already using that angle. (I have lots of respect
for you, my friend)
Austria certainly does look menacing doesn't he. I wonder what that
Italian army in TYR will do? What an opportunity for a stab.
I wouldn't plan your funeral yet. I notice that England is certainly
moving in your direction, but this is the fall. What a perfect time to
reverse direction. Don't forget, my theory is that alliances will
shift often. England will need three fleets to crack you open. While at
the same time we can't really push into your eastern border very
effectively. It's going to be two years before England can take Brest.
Will he wait that long? Tough call. I'm certain that you're pointing
all this out to him. I'd better get back on the stick email wise. (or
perhaps it's working in my favor - not sending out much mail. I can't
say the wrong thing that way)
France wrote:
>Yet somehow Ivy was able to turn me against you, despite
>all that. The reasons is that he is very very good. He
>builds relationship that people believe in. As you now
>know I was complete surprised by his moves. He had me
>very fooled.
Why is it that so many of the other powers in the games I've played in
think that I'm a dupe? This is not the first time that I've read this
kind of message. I made it to this round. Perhaps I'm the one pulling
the strings. On the other hand, maybe it's good that people think they
control me. Being underestimated makes me less threatening in the early
rounds. People WANT to ally with me. I think because they think they can
control me. Perhaps that is why I'm not currently being threatened
back. ;-)
I'm enjoying our conversations, and wish to continue them. Even if we're
at war. What's going on with AI and RT could be a most stimulating
conversation. Russia wants Sweden. Naturally to fight A. Should I give
it to him? I'd like to hear your thoughts. But I doubt if I get a
response back before the moves process on Friday.
Oops I see that there was one more message where you addressed exactly
this. I do like the idea of having Russia move back to STP.
Here's a topic. Put yourself in my shoes. There is a danger in the
east, growing. How would you handle it?
Fred VCEW (twice)
Message from Germany to France
Patience my friend. I was writting my last message to you while you
were writing this to me. It takes awhile to get through all that you
said. I have already been on email for close to 3 hours tonight, and I
have Italy, Turkey and Russia to get to yet.
Good thing Austria never writes.
Fred
>
> Message from France to Germany in 'titleist':
>
> Frederick:
>
> I am truly disappointed that you did not bother to answer
> any of my messages. Perhaps you were busy. But would
> a simple "I am considering it" or a "I can't do that
> right now, but hang on and an opportunity might come up
> soon" be
> so much trouble. If England betrays you, you might need
> me.
>
> At this point my orders will not change. Just do
> something similar to what I asked and we can work from
> there.
>
> -- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to France
>Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> >Still no word from Germany.
>
>I have a dilemma my friend. If I have to choose where to
>concentrate my defenses where do I slack off. On one
>had I have the master betrayer who I believe made the
>wrong choice and shamelessly lied to me. I do not want
>him to succeed because I want him to eventually realize
>that he made the wrong choice. But then on the other I
>have the weasel who does not have the decency to answer
>my messages either. :-) I want to punish them both, but will have to
>choose! :-)
For what it's worth, I got this from Ivy a bit ago.
:: 8:30 Thursday evening. No word from Freddy since
:: the moves. The person I selected for my ally.
:: What have I done?
:: The Boar is quite upset with me and he is probably right.
I suggested that he take Hol, support me into Swe,
and grovel to you. 8-) I also told him that if he did
so, I'd speak to you on his behalf. There may be the
potential here for you to be magnanimous, and ally with
him against the silent one.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Germany to Turkey
> And to the rest of you, yes at last the RT has been revealed! Lock up your
> daughters and hide the vodka, the Juggernaut is about to sweep the land!
Ah Ha. I figured that Russia was heading north for a reason. It's why
he's not in Sweden.
I have a tough choice in the next few hours. Let Russia have Sweden so
he can fight more effectively in the south, or take it myself, and build
my own army to fight in the south. It will be interesting.
Thanks for the info on the TYR-BOH move. Italy has said that army is to
be used against Russia. I would suspect that IA would like me to stay
out of there way until they polish you and Russia off. Then they'll
turn toward me.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Russia
Nic:
I don't look at the board for two days, and everything changes. I've
been on email tonight for about 3 hours. Not all of it Dip, but a lot.
France is the press king.
When I started this tonight, I was certain that I would take SWE. My
worry was that England and you might bounce me out. That's probably not
going to happen.
I've read your messages and I've given this a lot of thought. Yes you
do need help against AI. In fact I'm pretty sure that the Italian army
in TYR is heading in your direction. Unfortunately I believe the Swedish
build will only slow things down. AI are looking too strong. Turkey
will crumble like a house of cards, and then you'll be next. Then I'll
be next.
I need to send troops to my southern border ASAP. Therefore, I'm going
to take SWE (providing you and England don't bounce me out) I'll be
building an army. It's first move will be to SIL. I suspect at that
point I'll be supporting you. I hope you're still there.
Sorry I can't help you yet again.
Fredd
Message from Germany to Italy
Roberto:
I've been slow in my press, and now I must pay. Hours of reading and
writing. I did ask for a day extension. I might not get it as I don't
have a good excuse. But I'm not going to turn my orders in until
tomorrow anyway.
I really hadn't looked at the board since the last moves processed.
You and Austria have been busy. You've got Turkey by the throat. I
must admit that I saw it coming.
Why would you go TYR-MUN this turn? That should never go. Perhaps
France will support me to BUR? I'd like that, providing that you DON'T
go to MUN.
For a titleist award, I can't speak for England. But DEN - SWE? Being
the suspicious type I won't leave a center open for England to walk
right in in 1902.
So what's the Italian plan for world domination? You have an excellent
chance to stab Austria this turn. I doubt if you'll take it though. You
guys have a good thing going. Turkey will fall, then Russia. At that
point you guys should be huge. I wonder how EFG will look at that
time. If I were a betting man, I'd say that neither you nor Austria
will mess with me until Turkey and Russia are almost gone. Then it'll
be time to head north, or to stab each other.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
So what's the time gap between the first message that I sent tonight
and this one? I'm sending something to you first and last. Without
getting up. No wonder I take days off.
Now I know everything. When I responded before I hadn't really looked
at the board, or read all the other press.
My plans have changed. Although not much. There is a huge threat in
the southeast. AI have Turkey by the balls. Italy could stab Austria
this turn, but I'm betting against it. He could never count on Turkey to
let him keep SMY. Nope it looks like Turkey is done for. Then
Russia. And this should all move quickly. In fact I'd say that we'll
see an Italian fleet move west after the next build. He won't need it in
the east.
It means that we have to move quickly, plus a few other things. When I
was writing my last letter I was planning on running over Russia as soon
as possible. I see myself as working to help him out now. (after I take
SWE) At least for a year. Then I'll grab STP. It does mean that I'll be
slowed in taking centers in the east. That'll be good for our balance.
I see things shaping up like this. We can't stop AI from taking out
Turkey. I can slow them down from overrunning Russia. (I think that
I'll have to send two armies east.) The trouble is if they get too
powerful too fast. We'll never recover.
We have to get through France soon.
I believe that it's time that I trusted you totally. (At least for a
turn or two. ;-) We have to get moving. If the North Sea is open and
unthreatened we can do all sorts of things. Therefore I'm going to
take your advice and support DEN - SWE. And I'm going to go to RUHR.
This will leave me open to a stab from you in HOL or DEN, but not both.
Plus I'll definitely get SWE, so even if you stab I won't have to
disband.
After this turn, since you won't have anything in the North Sea, I can
swing HOL to RUH, and two of my armies can go to fight the Hun. (or am
I the Hun? Shouldn't the Hun be in Hungary?)
What do you think?
Fredd
Message from Italy to Germany
> But I'm not going to turn my orders in until tomorrow anyway.
This will not make our esteemed moderator happy but what he's going to do,
kick you out?
> Why would you go TYR-MUN this turn?
I would only do that if it was not going to interfere with your plans. The
idea being, it might fool France into thinking I will help me. Sounds like
you're planning on using Munich so I will hold. Just thought I'd ask. The
more France thinks I'm willing to help, the more information I can divulge
from him.
> For a titleist award, I can't speak for England. But DEN - SWE?
> Being the suspicious type I won't leave a center open for England
> to walk right in in 1902.
Interesting, since England responded that Germany shouldn't move Baltic ->
Sweden because of the risk of a Russia fleet moving into the Baltic. Sounds
like there may be a difference of opinion. Any chance you would allow
Russia access to Finland? Ok, dumb question.
> So what's the Italian plan for world domination?
<blush> I don't have one. I'm just trying to survive. I've upset the Turk
so it's the consensus of the Italian military that he must be eliminated.
After that, I will reconsider all options.
Life is Beautiful,
Roberto
Message [from Austria] to all
While I was one of those who received a "late" notice, my orders are in.
If I have an error flag, this message is to clear it.
Message from Russia to Germany
Fredd,
> When I started this tonight, I was certain that I would take SWE.
> My worry was that England and you might bounce me out.
> That's probably not going to happen.
Not based on what I've heard from England. He's well aware of
how much press you're getting from France, and he isn't looking to
give you any reason to change allies.
> Yes, you do need help against AI. Unfortunately I believe the Swedish
> build will only slow things down. AI are looking too strong.
That's exactly my point. The Swedish build should slow things
down enough for you to make progress against France.
> I need to send troops to my southern border ASAP.
If you make it clear to AI that you will not tolerate them crossing the
German border, that should slow them down. They're already fighting
a two-front war, they won't want bring you into the mix as well.
> I'm going to take SWE I'll be building an army. It's first move will
> be to SIL. I suspect at that point I'll be supporting you.
It would be better for both of us if you let me take Swe this year and
build a third Army, and then took Swe next year and let me disband the
Fleet. Then your one Eastern Army could effectively support me, and
slowly turn the tide on Austria. One German Army in Sil in 1903 will
not be positioned to effectively support my operations, and will not be
strong enough to share in the ensuing feeding frenzy. I beg you to
reconsider the wisdom of allowing me to take Sweden this year.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicolas II.
Message from Master to Germany
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>Doug: Can I have a day extension? The reason is that I'm not ready.
>A shitty reason, but there it is.
and
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>I asked Doug for a day extension. If he doesn't give it, then I'll be
>late. I'll enter orders about 18 hours after the current deadline.
Hmm. You're right, it's not a very good reason. You sent your request
after I left work for the day and we're already past the deadline.
Just submit orders when you get the chance.
Doug
Message from France to England
Wingo:
Hmm, someone is late. I wonder who that could possibly
be? Perhaps that ally that you need to count on?
Since there is currently no reason to discuss alliances,
I will spend the time doing what I love, talking tactics.
Image what would have happened if you had stayed with our
plan. We would have had the following:
Armies in Ruhr, Picardy, Burdungy, and Paris.
Fleets in the Bight, North Sea, London, Norway and the
Channel. (as well as a Russian one in GoB)
Germany would have had a Fleets in Denmark and Baltic,
armies in Munich, Holland, and Kiel.
We would have had so many options. Certainly there would
have been a guessing game between Kiel, Munich, and
Holland. But Germany could not have covered them all and
unless he guessed perfectly he would have lost one. I
even liked an option where you took Holland by Fleet and
moved London to the North Sea. Kiel would have fallen
even quicker with fleets in Hel, Hol, and Nth, as well as
an army in Ruhr. But there were also other options.
The Fleet in the Channel could have moved out this
turn and not waited. Russia would have likely been in
Sweden this turn to help you with Denmark and been very
grateful.
Now you are stuck trying to guess right just to make
progress, not take any center. And you have to worry
about my invading your homeland if you mess up.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Germany
Fred:
I suspect that you are late and cannot write back, but
that does not mean that I cannot write to you. Let me
say some things.
First, I am patient. That is why I continue to write to
you.
Second, I did not say that you were a dupe. I was the
one duped remember. I said that I believe that England
had better relationships than you and is better
positioned for the future. I base this not just on my
interactions with the two of you but on my conversations
with everyone else. A big and likeable England at your
back is a dangerous thing. That is my point.
As for England, I spent a little time trying to tell him
that he made a mistake, certainly. But I have basically
given up talking to him about anything substantial. For
the reasons that I outlined to you above, I feel that
England must go. I do not want a strong and likeable
England at my back. Therefore my only choice for the
future is to try and change your mind. There is no
chance of me siding with England over you, unless I
became very desperate for survival. But that is a *long*
way off.
I am being purposely obnoxious to England to give you
some confidence that an EF could never materialize.
As for the South, I do not have any advice what to do
about it. There is little that can be done. Austria and
Italy will clean up Turkey and Russia very quickly. They
will look North. If you and England are still joined
against me, I will be forced to welcome them with open
arms and hope for the best.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Germany to Russia
> It would be better for both of us if you let me take Swe this year and
> build a third Army, and then took Swe next year and let me disband the
> Fleet. Then your one Eastern Army could effectively support me, and
> slowly turn the tide on Austria. One German Army in Sil in 1903 will
> not be positioned to effectively support my operations, and will not be
> strong enough to share in the ensuing feeding frenzy. I beg you to
> reconsider the wisdom of allowing me to take Sweden this year.
I'm in negotiations with England to pull back from our borders. If this
happens that I can send two armies to the southeast.
I'm still planning on taking SWE.
I hope we can continue to talk even though I take SWE. I expect that
it'll be in both of our best interests to work together after this move.
Fredd
Message from Germany to France
Yes, I am late. I'm planning on turning in my orders sometime this
evening. I'll have the opportunity to read one more message from you
just before I turn in the orders.
Bye I'm off to work.
Fredd
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
Yes that's me who is late. I'm off to work. I'm planning on turning
my orders in later tonight. So if there's anything that you'd like to
discuss I can read one message before turning in my orders. And if I
really need to reply I'll be late another day. I imagine that I have
sufficient points to survive.
My orders are still similar to the below
MUN hold
KIE - RUH
DEN - SWE
Fredd
Message from Russia to Germany
>Message from Germany to Russia in 'titleist':
>I'm in negotiations with England to pull back from our borders. If this
>happens that I can send two armies to the southeast.
How can you do this and make any progress against
France? It sounds as though Ivy is setting you up for
a stab.
>I hope we can continue to talk even though I take SWE.
If you take Swe, I am unlikely to be around long
enough to talk to. Even if you order Mun-Boh, Ber-Sil,
that does nothing to solve my problem with the Austrian
Army in Ukr. To stop Austria, I NEED the third Army.
Please consider whether the rapid collapse of RT is a
good thing or a bad thing for you, and whether Germany
gaining one Army this year is worth causing that
collapse. To survive and prosper as Germany you have
to take the longer view, and look beyond the current
turn. It should be obvious to you that granting me
access to Sweden this year does not endanger you in
any way, and actually improves your security in a
number of ways. Please reconsider your position, and
mine.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from France to England
Wingo:
So Germany is late and is admittedly
waiting to turn in orders until he is ready.
If there was any chance at an alliance
with you I would proposed banding
together to punish such behavior.
What a spot to be in, having two
powers needing to work with you so much
that you can be obnoxious and get
away with it.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from Russia to England and France
Gentlemen,
Well, the good news is that Fredd is finally
talking. The bad news is that he seems to lack the
foresight to realize that if he takes Sweden,
instead of letting me have it, the RT defense
against AI is likely to rapidly collapse, and the
extra Army will do him no good, even if he sends
it East. I've laid it out for him in every way I
can think of, but he still seems determined to take
Swe. Ah well, I wish you both luck.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
I suppose that Nwy S GoB-Swe, Nth-Den would
still get me Sweden, but I can't envision you
issuing those orders.
Nick.
Message from Russia to Italy
Roberto, My Friend,
I wonder who we're waiting for? Did you come to
a decision regarding the Turkish Attack vs. the Austrian
Attack vs. taking one from each of them? Care to share
that decision with me? 8-) My orders are in and won't
be changing; we'll have to see how well I second-guessed
Austria. I finally heard from Germany, half an hour
before the deadline, again. Does he really expect to
succeed at this level without negotiating?
An Impatient,
Nick.
Message from Russia to Turkey
My Good Ali,
I wonder who we're waiting on? After a night's
sleep, I still think the set of orders we settled on
makes the most sense, but I keep vacilating about
War-Gal. I'm sticking with it since it protects War
against Ukr S Gal-War, but I worry about the unlikely
chance of it succeeding, and Austria retreating to
Sil. All things considered though, it seem unlikely
that Austria will not attack Rum, so I suspect the
retreat is a remote chance at best.
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from Russia to Austria
Ralassa,
What's the matter, Ferdie decide which Centres
to attack and which to defend? It's pretty much a
coin-toss, really, don't you think?
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to Master
Although Germany is my ally (some choice I made), I wonder if it is
appropriate for you to make some comment about the propriety of diploming
after the deadline when one doesn't have orders in.
Allen
Message from Master to Germany
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>Yes that's me who is late. I'm off to work. I'm planning on turning
>my orders in later tonight. So if there's anything that you'd like to
>discuss I can read one message before turning in my orders. And if I
>really need to reply I'll be late another day. I imagine that I have
>sufficient points to survive.
Rich, this is unacceptable. I don't mind you pushing the deadline
for one day because I wasn't around to extend the deadline for you.
I don't even mind continuing negotiations after the deadline and without
submitted orders, for the same reason.
However, I won't tolerate ignoring deadlines just so you can get more
diplomacy time. Please submit your orders today. If your statement
above was simply a diplomatic ploy for England and not really your
intention, then ignore this note and submit your orders today as
planned.
Thanks,
Doug
Message from Austria to Russia
It's nice to hear from you again. I hope your family is much improved.
I do not doubt we will be talking more after the turn processes.
Ralassa, for Austria-Hungary, by the grace of Archduke Ferdinand
Message from England to France
Dauphin,
>There is no need to apologize. Your insults mean nothing
>to me really.
But I did not intend to insult. The humor was lame and, under the
circumstances, inappropriate.
>However, you have made it very clear
>that you will not consider siding with France.
Yeah, that's where we are right now.
I try to maintain the possibility of reversing course if circumstances
change. Especially if some third party threatens to run away from a game.
Once I proxied all my units to my game-long enemy so that he could stop
someone else from winning.
>By the way, some ally that you got there.
I think you will get some satisfaction from knowing that Germany did not
send me any note after the last set of moves until after 11pm last night.
8-)
Concerning your second note on what could have been:
>Russia would have likely been in
>Sweden this turn to help you with Denmark and been very
>grateful.
That was SO important to me! Russia refused! I had asked you about
Norway->StP, and you asked me not to do it. I accepted that, even though I
worried about your motivation for keeping Russia strong. I accepted that.
But when I offered to help Russia into Sweden in exchange for him helping
me into Denmark, he declined. He said he thought he should have Denmark
also. I couldn't believe it.
Water over the dam. I am going to try sticking with Germany and see how it
goes.
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Russia
> I suppose that Nwy S GoB-Swe, Nth-Den would
>still get me Sweden,
Not if Germany attacks Sweden from Denmark. Then it would bounce.
Before the spring move, I offered you Sweden in the spring in exchange for
Denmark in the fall. You declined, saying that you would prefer to have
Denmark also, and that had a gigantic effect on my decision to go with
Germany as an ally.
I know you were in a tricky situation at the time. Accepting my offer would
have meant that you could not have convoyed the army to Livonia. Tough
choice. Consequently, I was left with a tough choice also.
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to Germany
Freddy,
I have changed back again. Once again it is Lon s North Sea->Channel. We
can talk about this later. If together we think the army in Holland is
needed in the east, at that time we can move London->Nth Sea to do the job.
With this change, and with North sea now open, I sure hope you can get Kiel
into Ruhr.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fred,
Fast note. 3:30 pm.
I got up at 5am glanced at the e-mail and had to dash out of the house
(long story). When I got back this afternoon, I had internet trouble for
two hours.
I changed one move. London-Channel instead of North Sea to Channel. I
will change again if you ask me to. North Sea can support Belgium, freeing
your Holland army to do anything. I wouldn't dare grab one of your centers
with North Sea, because France would pee his pants with glee and I would
get crushed between the two of you. Anyway, Channel->Irish Sea is proof
enough that I am at deep war with France. He will be in Mao, but my fleet
from Norway will be in Norwegian Sea and in another turn I will have three
on two in the Atlantic.
Again, if you prefer I do it the other way, let me know.
I'll have more time after 4pm and will write again.
Ivy Wingo
>Ivy:
> Yes that's me who is late. I'm off to work. I'm planning on turning
>my orders in later tonight. So if there's anything that you'd like to
>discuss I can read one message before turning in my orders. And if I
>really need to reply I'll be late another day. I imagine that I have
>sufficient points to survive.
>
>My orders are still similar to the below
>MUN hold
>KIE - RUH
>DEN - SWE
>
>
>Fredd
Message from France to Germany
Fredd:
I said all that I had to say. You know my arguments and reasoning. I
also do not know if it would be appropriate to say more as it borders on
negotiating after the deadline.
I hope you do the right thing. I am ready and anxious to follow through
with you.
-- Prince Boar
Message from Russia to Master
Doug,
You Wrote >
> Anecdotal evidence says that the former is definitely true,
> nearly to the point of being a PbEM Diplomacy axiom. Send
> more press, do better in the game.
Hmmm, are France and Russia doing well in 'titleist'? 8-)
They're near, if not at, the top of the Press frequency
measures for 'titleist' and seem to be fighting for their
lives. I think that we may have said too much, in fact, and
painted targets on ourselves. I guess we'll see soon enough,
(assuming F1902M ever processes).
Eric.
Message from Germany to England
Ivy:
I would prefer that you move Nth - ENG. I don't want to leave DEN open
if you're in the North Sea. Plus I can move Holland down to Ruhr if
it's open.
Strategically I believe it would be a bad idea for you to attack me
now. But stranger things have happened.
If we disengage on this front both of us can go on to bigger better
things.
What do you think about the threat in the east? AI
Fredd
Austria: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Italian Army Tunis → Smyrna
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Serbia
Austria: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Ukraine → Warsaw (*dislodged*)
Austria: Army Serbia HOLD
Austria: Army Ukraine → Warsaw
England: Army Belgium SUPPORT German Army Munich → Burgundy (*void*)
England: Fleet English Channel → Irish Sea
England: Fleet London SUPPORT Fleet North Sea → English Channel
England: Fleet North Sea → English Channel
England: Fleet Norway → Norwegian Sea
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Fleet Portugal → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Gascony SUPPORT Army Paris → Burgundy
France: Army Paris → Burgundy
France: Army Picardy → Belgium (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Portugal → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Germany: Fleet Baltic Sea SUPPORT Fleet Denmark → Sweden
Germany: Fleet Denmark → Sweden
Germany: Army Holland → Ruhr
Germany: Army Kiel → Munich
Germany: Army Munich → Bohemia
Italy: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean CONVOY Army Tunis → Smyrna
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea CONVOY Army Tunis → Smyrna
Italy: Army Tunis → Ionian Sea → Eastern Mediterranean → Smyrna
Italy: Army Tyrolia HOLD
Russia: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → Sweden (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Livonia → Moscow
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol SUPPORT Turkish Army Rumania
Russia: Army Warsaw → Galicia
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Greece
Turkey: Army Rumania SUPPORT Russian Army Warsaw → Galicia
Turkey: Army Smyrna HOLD (*dislodged*)
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