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Message from England to France
Erik -
Please do not write to Andy right now.
I fear the worst - we have to deal with Andy to stop Russia, and the two of
you have been at each others' throats too long. I will keep you involved
*through me* but I fear it is time to start writing eog's, if you piss him
off right now. I will get back to you asap.
Ben
Message from England to all
Ok, I am setting draw.
If I were Eric, I would not set draw. If I were Andy or Erik, I would.
I am not playing with this fire any more. I have survived longer than I'd
hoped though I have carelessly imperiled the West, and as far as I am
concerned, a 4way is as good as it will get, for me.
Ben
Message from England to all
FWIW:
Movement orders for Fall of 1912. (c2.049)
England: Fleet Baltic Sea, No Order Processed.
England: Fleet Denmark, No Order Processed.
England: Fleet Skagerrak, No Order Processed.
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean, No Order Processed.
England: Fleet Barents Sea, No Order Processed.
England: Army Ruhr, No Order Processed.
England: Fleet North Sea, No Order Processed.
England: Army St Petersburg, No Order Processed.
England: Army Kiel, No Order Processed.
England: Army London, No Order Processed.
England: DRAW YES
No, I will not do this again, after I've written orders.
Ben
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
A half-hearted apology. Half-hearted because you obviously expected IR
cooperation, so I don't feel like I've "stabbed" so much as "misled" you.
We'll see what Andy's response to the situation is.
--- Eric
Message from England to France
Erik -
Ok, I think this is where we are.
We cannot any longer control the size of the draw. *Eric* can, but we
cannot. If, sometime down the road, he pulls off the German centers, then
we can capture BER/MUN, and have a 3 way.
But if you keep going after Andy now then it is game over. We can only
keep MUN/BER non-Russian with guesses, and as soon as we guess wrong,
that's it.
What I can suggest this means, on the board, is that we withdraw to minimal
lines, and pull our units as far from Andy's as reasonably possible. Also
I really *have* set draw, and I would encourage you to do the same, though
of course it is your decision.
I have not heard from Andy yet.
Ben
Message from England to all
Raise your hand if you requested the absence and are unavailable.
Thank you.
Ben
Message from Russia to all
>Raise your hand if you requested the absence and are unavailable.
I requested an absence, but should be available until tomorrow evening. So
I guess I shouldn't be saying anything.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to all
Folks,
Ive been without email for about 24 hours...anything that was sent to m e
should be re-sent.
thanks
Andy
Every normal man must be tempted, at times
to spit on his hands, hoist the skull and
crossbones, and begin slitting throats"
- H.L.Menken
Message from England to France
Erik -
Ok, I think Andy & I have an understanding about BER. He will not use the
unit - as he could - to throw the solo, though I think he may end up trying
to support Eric into MUN. As I see it this is not a big deal as long as
you hold TUN.
So I would recommend, concede the Italian centers - who cares, really - and
drop back to the line defending TUN. Leave it up to Eric to mop up
whatever he wants and then we set draw & be done.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from France to England
Ben:
I don't think Andy will throw the game as long as he's got a shot, no
matter how small, of staying in the draw. I won't feel secure, though,
until the only centers he owns are centers that could easily go Russian
without a Russian solo. Without a map in front of me, I can't do the math,
but will pulling out of the Italian centers leave us with enough for a
draw, or push Russia over the edge? Do we need to regain Ber and Mun?
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I don't think Andy will throw the game
> as long as he's got a shot, no matter
> how small, of staying in the draw.
Ok, good, because as I've said, he's sneaked into a position where he can
throw the game if he wants.
> I won't feel secure, though, until the
> only centers he owns are centers that
> could easily go Russian without a
> Russian solo.
Ah. I do not think we can do this any longer, as his occupation of BER is
extremely problematic. I can support it, with him in it, forever, and if he
holds, it cannot be taken by Russia. However, he can throw the game at any
time by moving, making his unit ineligible for receiving support, while it
is simultaneously attacked by MUN/SIL/PRU. So if he is hostile, in other
words, if he wants to throw, all he has to do is (a) arrange for Russian
occupation of MUN, which I do not think we can stop, and then (b) order BER
- KIE (or BER - MUN, or whatever - as long as he's moving). It's not
something we can really prevent, except by negotiation - I must order the
supports.
> Without a map in front of me, I can't do the math,
> but will pulling out of the Italian centers leave
> us with enough for a draw, or push Russia over the
> edge? Do we need to regain Ber and Mun?
We can't regain BER and MUN. This last phase, Andy took them from us, as I
said. We must control two of TUN/BER/MUN, which means we must control TUN
and work with Andy to keep BER.
Eric has 13. The 3 Italian centers will give him 16. That will leave
TUN/BER/MUN. We need two of those, but as I said, we can't fool around. So
I will be supporting BER and I expect MUN to go Russian. As I said in my
broadcast - I've been playing with this fire long enough. It is too risky
for the two of us to try to retake one of BER/MUN without Italian
cooperation - the whole shooting match is on the line, and Andy will not
give up if he thinks I am supporting him.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from France to England
Zoiks. Not a good situation for us. My move on Italy may have been a bit
premature, but I had to do something before Russia got into a position to
pounce. If only I hadn't flubbed the attack on Munich.
Have you spoken with Andy?
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Zoiks. Not a good situation for us. My move on Italy may have been a bit
> premature, but I had to do something before Russia got into a position to
> pounce. If only I hadn't flubbed the attack on Munich.
Well, heaven knows every game has some missent press or goofed order from
me. I don't think it's a huge deal, in the sense that:
> Have you spoken with Andy?
Yes, his fate is in our hands, he knows, but he also knows the game is in
his. So I will support him in BER and he will not throw the game. I
suspect part of the penalty we will be paying is a Russian MUN, but that is
ok, as long as there is a French TUN. Please go over the math & tactics
and let me know your thoughts, but that's where I think we are.
Ben
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
You appear to have Ben and I by the short and curlies. Are you intent on
throwing the game, or are you ready to start talking 4-way draw?
Erik
Message from Italy to France
>
> You appear to have Ben and I by the short and curlies. Are you intent on
> throwing the game, or are you ready to start talking 4-way draw?
I am always willing to talk 4 way.
Message from Italy to England and France
Erik and Ben.
I am holding in Berlin.
Erik, I would like you to move Tuscany to Piedmont with Support from
Marsaille and For Tyrrenean Sea to not attack me. TYS - ION supported by
Tunis might be your best move.
Is this acceptable to you.
Andy
Message from England to France and Italy
> I am holding in Berlin.
Good! It's better than losing!
> Erik, I would like you to move Tuscany to Piedmont with Support from
> Marsaille and For Tyrrenean Sea to not attack me. TYS - ION supported by
> Tunis might be your best move.
>
> Is this acceptable to you.
For what it's worth, it's fine with me.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
I believe your safest moves are ROM - TYS sb TUN, with TYS - WES and TUS -
LYO.
This gets us ready for having your fleets in MAR/LYO/WES, which *all* must
be fleets, with units in TUN and NAF as well. If we prepare for it now -
perhaps with a convoy of MAR - LYO - TYS - TUN - then we won't have to
worry down the road about collapse in the Med.
I would firmly recommend you set up the line now and not, for instance,
stay in your forward position, as Andy would have you do. If for instance
ROM is destroyed, you will not get to rebuild it, and one of your fleets
will be forever gone. The contortions of rebuilding it would be quite
difficult. Of course, what this will mean is - greater dependence on Andy.
Let's avoid that, if we can.
Let Andy do whatever he wants with his southern centers. I think
eventually Eric will take them - so what.
Please let's be open about our moves - let me know what you're thinking and
why, so we can discuss it.
Ben
Message from France to England
Ben:
I concur with your suggestions, with the caveat that I'd like to convoy
Mar - Naf next turn. That will definitely help secure the line. Can I
move Mar - Pie, Bur - Mar, or do we need Bur for something? I assumed
that we'd written Munich off, but I'm open to giving Bur - Mun one last
shot (unless we think that will cause an Andy throw).
Can he dislodge Andy from Berlin now, or are we safe there?
Erik
Message from France to England and Italy
Andy:
Tys will not be attacking you, nor Rome nor Tus. I can't promise Tus -
Pie; I can offer Mar - Pie, though that might make you uneasy. We do
need to try to prevent Tyr - Pie, though, and unless you support that
move, Mar - Pie will block it (and put me in position to support Ven).
It's up to you. If I don't hear back, I'll assume that's not acceptable.
Erik
Message from Italy to England and France
> Tys will not be attacking you, nor Rome nor Tus.
But will they be supporting any attacks on me.
I can't promise Tus - Pie; I can offer Mar - Pie, though that might make
you uneasy.
I dont want that.
We do
> need to try to prevent Tyr - Pie, though, and unless you support that
> move, Mar - Pie will block it (and put me in position to support Ven).
> It's up to you. If I don't hear back, I'll assume that's not acceptable.
Its not acceptable.
If you would just back the hell off me....and stop 1 dotting me, I could
have actually defended myself.
And to be perfectly honest I dont beleive for a second that you wont try
to eliminate me Erik.
Andy
Message from France to England and Italy
>
> And to be perfectly honest I dont beleive for a second that you wont try
> to eliminate me Erik.
>
> Andy
Well, I would if I could, just as you would do the same in my place. Let's
not forget what we're playing.
But that's neither here nor there -- as of right now, we can't eliminate
you without giving Russia a solo. So, you've worked your way into a
crucial position on the line, and we are acknowledging that fact.
You don't want me in Piedmont -- fine. I don't need to be there. At this
point, though, I hope you recognize that your southern and home centers
are close to becoming toast. Russia will occupy all of them shortly. If he
tells you otherwise, he's full of it. I can hold a stalemate line just to
the west of Italy, but he's more or less gotten where he needs to be to
take out the rest of that peninsula.
Right now, what's keeping you in the draw is Berlin. Once Russia takes
Munich, we can't take Berlin; we can only support you there indefinitely.
As for Ven / Nap / Rome ... they're already starting to speak Russian.
He'll have 17 when he gobbles up Munich and Italy and hits my
Mediterranean stalemate line; Berlin *would* be 18, but you've lodged
yourself in there nicely.
So, I repeat: despite my attempts to eliminate you, you appear to be here
to stay, if you so choose.
Erik
Message from Italy to England and France
>
> So, I repeat: despite my attempts to eliminate you, you appear to be here
> to stay, if you so choose.
Fair enough.
Message from Russia to all
Hi all,
Sorry for the silence, I was away at DipCon over the weekend, and as usual,
Monday was too busy for Dip.
DipCon was quite an event. Very well run. My first face to face experience,
and man, Dip is a *very* different game face to face. Because I have very
little from the weekend to prop up my ego, I'll say I was very proud that I
only failed to order one unit in four rounds of play (the tourney used "drop
dead" timing, where when the timer said zero, whatever you had written were
your orders.) I misordered frequently, and ordered correctly but badly many,
many times, but only that one time went unintentionally NMR for a unit.
Now I've been eliminated by some of the best of them, and by Doug Massey,
too. :) I can salvage some esteem from the fact that in my one game in which
I made the draw I managed to hold out as Germany despite Edward Hawthorne in
France trying to engineer my demise with England and Turkey (and for a while
Austria as well). I can also say that my Russian loss (surviving at six
centers in a 2-way not including me) lasted a lot longer than Andy's Russian
loss, but I'll let him talk about that one. :)
All in all, a blast of an event.
Back to the game, I apologize for the holdup in getting my orders in. I
intended to enter them before starting play in Portland. I'll send them in
with this message, though I'm available for responding to press if anyone
needs me.
--- Eric
Message from France to England
I'm moving
tys - wes
tus - lyo
rom - tys
tun s rom - tys
bur - mun (just in case)
Next turn I'll convoy a Mar - Naf, turn after that I'll drop back from Lyo
- Mar and pull the fourth fleet into Lyo. That establishes that stalemate.
I've also run my mind over the north; I think we're okay as long as Andy
sits in Berlin. He can't break your support from Bar, he can't retake St.
P, he can't get a fleet build up north, he can't take Berlin while we have
Kiel and Mun.
Next turn I say we approach him about the state of things and give him the
opportunity to move off the line and whittle the draw. We'd need me to
take Italy all the way up to Venice to have a secure draw.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
Your convoy is a good plan. Your tactical assessment is correct.
Ben
Message from England to France and Italy
Gentlemen -
It looks like we are all on the same page. My apologies for being quiet
today - home with a sick kid.
Ben
England: Fleet Baltic Sea SUPPORT Italian Army Berlin
England: Fleet Barents Sea SUPPORT Army St Petersburg
England: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT Army Kiel
England: Army Kiel SUPPORT Italian Army Berlin
England: Army London → North Sea → Edinburgh
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army London → Edinburgh
England: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Kiel
England: Fleet Skagerrak → Sweden
England: Army St Petersburg HOLD
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Army Marseilles HOLD
France: Army Paris → Burgundy (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Rome → Tyrrhenian Sea
France: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT Fleet Rome → Tyrrhenian Sea
France: Fleet Tuscany → Gulf of Lyon
France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Western Mediterranean
Italy: Army Berlin SUPPORT Russian Army Bohemia → Munich (*void*)
Italy: Fleet Naples → Rome
Italy: Army Venice → Tuscany
Russia: Army Apulia SUPPORT Italian Fleet Naples → Rome
Russia: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Silesia → Munich
Russia: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Ionian Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Ionian Sea
Russia: Fleet Ionian Sea → Tyrrhenian Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Livonia SUPPORT Army Prussia
Russia: Army Moscow SUPPORT Army Livonia
Russia: Army Prussia SUPPORT Italian Army Berlin
Russia: Army Silesia → Munich
Russia: Army Trieste → Venice
Russia: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Army Silesia → Munich
Russia: Army Vienna → Trieste
Russia: Army Warsaw → Silesia
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