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Message from Italy to France
Erik,
Now that we have the customary, finger pointing out of the way.
How do we untangle from this mess.
Andy
Message from France to Italy
> Now that we have the customary, finger pointing out of the way.
>
> How do we untangle from this mess.
>
Yes, always good to get the squabbling out of the way so we can get down to
business.
The big problem, as I see it, is that Russia is about to run away with the
game, and Turkey is helping him do it. My obvious routes of expansion
right now are into you or into England, but weakening either of you hurts
your ability to prevent Russia and Turkey from getting out of control.
It's a pickle.
The best course of action might be to work with England to get him to
abandon the continent and focus on Scandanavia, allowing me to pour armies
through Kiel / Ruhr / Munich and into Russia. At the same time, I could
withdraw from the Med while leaving one Navy down there -- not enough to
threaten you, but enough to support your navies where needed against
Turkey.
Thoughts?
Erik
Message from Germany to France
I am sure you did everything possible to convince Ben that peace was in both
your interest.
You fleet build in MAR said enough. I was amazed to see him build in LVP and
even more amazed at his moves last fall where he attacked you. Russia will
walk all over him. My move to HOL was merely to cut support for support of
KIE. Russia was meant to support BER - KIE usuing BAL and move SWE - DEN and
SIL - BER.
He told me he was kicking himself for not doing so in hindsight.
I am up fronty when I say I will support HOL this fall. I am lost now
anyway. My advice to you for moves would be;
f mao - bre
f spa - por
f gol - spa
a bur s bel
a bel s hol
a ruh s hol
a ber - kie
This stops England from going anywhere quickly. At worst he takes HOL with
KIE supported by NTH & HEL but then I would enter KIE. If he tries any other
combination then all will bounce. Trust me on this one. I owe nothing to
Ben. My last press to you and him was a sincere effort to turn the game,
even with me out of it. he should have built in EDI and LON and trusted you
to move away as you did. Russia has him wrapped around his thumb. I am exit
this fall but I hate to see strategic bad decisions. I made loads this game
but you and england have a chance. I hope he hasnt blown it but I know he
has. He wont be able to move on Russia anymore and he seems bent on
attacking you. Russia gets three builds, he will build in STP. England is
lost. I predict a Russian solo. My move are in as mentioned. Good luck.
Message from Italy to France
Erik,
>
> Yes, always good to get the squabbling out of the way so we can get down to
> business.
Exactly.
> The big problem, as I see it, is that Russia is about to run away with the
> game, and Turkey is helping him do it. My obvious routes of expansion
> right now are into you or into England, but weakening either of you hurts
> your ability to prevent Russia and Turkey from getting out of control.
> It's a pickle.
Ok....I think that England wants to fight you, that is just my feeling.
I dont want to fight you, and I can hold off the Turk, and support
Austria for a time, as long as you dont attack me.
We need to get Turkey and Russia fighting, and if I can bottle up the
Turk, he wont have any choice in the matter, he will have to deal with the
Russian.
>
> The best course of action might be to work with England to get him to
> abandon the continent and focus on Scandanavia, allowing me to pour armies
> through Kiel / Ruhr / Munich and into Russia.
You will need to spend next year showing him that he cant overrun you.
Which he believes he can do, and without some sort of reason to stop
taking your dots, he wont.
Do you think you can get Tony to help you, in return for helping him.
Offer to support Ber- Kie in return for Ruh supporting Holland.
Support Belgium with Burgandy. So that even if Tony bails on you, you
protect one of your dots.....
Also....Spa - Por and Lyo - Spa will guarantee leverage on the Mao in the
Spring. Mao has to go to Bre in the fall.
At the same time, I could
> withdraw from the Med while leaving one Navy down there -- not enough to
> threaten you, but enough to support your navies where needed against
> Turkey.
I dont think you can afford to take on the English with only 2 fleets
until at the very earliest you can protect Bre with an army....
take care
Andy
Message from England to France
Erik -
What I am envisioning is that we arrange a dance wherein I capture HOL and BEL but IRI held harmlessly at bay - a bounce in MAO, I guess - in order that I can build in the winter the necessary units for going north. There is not a satisfactory move set for me right now to go north; by the time I arrived the northern Russian fleets would be well constructed and battle-ready. If on the other hand I could *build* a F EDI, that would be a big help.
So my thinking is, set up the fall to swap HOL and BEL to me, but otherwise not advance my position further into yours. This should withstand the loss of KIE, if that happens, so I could still build a F EDI. Meanwhile the loss to you would be those armies, which are not efficiently placed for further advancement anyway, trapped as they are behind my F KIE, etc.
It is just an idea, but I think it's a good one.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from France to England
>
> It is just an idea, but I think it's a good one.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ben
Frankly, I don't like it. I realize I'm not in a position to negotiate
much, but while I'm willing to concede Holland, I'd really rather not lose
two centers. That's going to put me in an exceptionally weak position
going forward while you're hanging off my coast with a huge Armada. I will
not be in a position to anything other than watch over my shoulder and
prepare to defend against your attack. Given that, it still doesn't make
any sense for me to do anything but fight you tooth and nail, and that's
going to give the Russian a big advantage.
What I think really makes more sense is for me to try to push through Kiel
/ Munich / Ruhr and try to get in a position where I can threaten Russian
holdings in Austria / Warsaw, while at the same time keeping a fleet or
two down south to both hold the Italian in check and perhaps give him
assistance against Turkey. Despite my sudden move toward him, he and I are
actually talking a lot more than we used to, and I don't think this is out
of the question.
Look, it's becoming clear that Russia is in a fantastic position right now,
and he's going to start having solo opportunities if we don't start doing
something about it now. But, all efforts to stop the leader aside, I still
have to do what I can to keep my own position strong, and losing both Hol
and Bel doesn't really make me feel like I'm doing that. You're not going
to lose Kiel this turn, so taking Holland will still give you that build
in Edi.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
You present a bunch of things I want to think about & respond to, but I
don't have time right now. Let me just ask, what makes you think I won't
lose KIE?
I'll write more later.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Can you order BUR s BEL? If so then I can just order the attacks on HOL
and BEL, and to everyone else it will look like we're at war, but secretly
you'd just be giving me HOL and keeping BEL.
Will that work?
Ben
Message from Russia to all
The holiday season is upon me in about half an hour when I will be leaving
for this year's family get togethers.
The conditions in the gathering place are so primitive that neither a TiVo
nor a network connection is available, so unless someone wants to call me on
the phone (and there is no answering machine there either!) I will not be
available for negotiations until I return late Sunday or early Monday.
Happy (early) holidays everyone!
--- Eric
Message from England to France
Erik -
Ok, to recap the last few presses I sent you:
I am currently proposing that you support BEL so I can attack BEL and HOL
but take only HOL, thus preserving the appearance of war between us. The
goal with this illusion is to secure favorable builds from Russia if
possible.
Also you mentioned that you did not think I would lose KIE and I asked you
whether you'd heard anything on that point.
I know you are busy - get back to me when you can.
Ben
Message from France to England
> Erik -
> Ok, to recap the last few presses I sent you:
> I am currently proposing that you support BEL so I can attack BEL and
> HOL
> but take only HOL, thus preserving the appearance of war between us.
> The
> goal with this illusion is to secure favorable builds from Russia if
> possible.
That's acceptable. The question is, how can I best contribute to a defense
against Russia? Is it worthwhile to plow through Munich, or should I just
keep heading toward the Med?
>
> Also you mentioned that you did not think I would lose KIE and I asked
> you
> whether you'd heard anything on that point.
>
> I know you are busy - get back to me when you can.
>
Instead of taking Holland, you could take Belgium, leaving Holland to
*support* Kiel. If Hel supports Kiel also, you can keep it no matter what.
I think I can get German support into Munich, purely out of spite, and
that keeps me at the same center count while you take Bel from Eng. It
sounds a little crazy, but it may make sense.
What do you think?
I know time is short, but I'll be around all day tomorrow.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
Obviously, I'd be very grateful for assistance into Munich, if that's how
you'd like to go out. I think I may be able to get England off-balance
enough to throw off his offensive, but my main concern is minimizing
Russian growth. I'd really rather not see him solo so quickly.
Will you support Bur - Mun?
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
I've been trying my hardest to get England to back down a bit, but I'm not
sure what he's really going to do. Obviously, I'd be extremely grateful if
you could find a way to get me into Munich and / or put some pressure on
him through Scandanavia.
Meanwhile, down south, what do you think is going to happen? Italy was
hopping mad with me, but if Turkey's going to keep coming at him, that's
not so much a concern.
I'll be around all day tomorrow. Please write when you get a chance.
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
I need to know what your plans are in the Med. I've got a serious problem
with England here, but if you're still planning on heading West, I'd be
happy to leave some units to help you with Andy. Just give me some kind of
indication so I don't leave a fleet down there in vain -- give my new
situation, I can't fight him alone.
Erik
Message from Turkey to France
Thanks for the note.
I probably could use some help in the Med, but obviously I've got my
hands full with AR. I can't promise anything, but I'd hate for him to
stage a breakout in either direction.
jason
Message from Germany to France
Hi Erik, well as I will be exiting then obviously I would prefer someone to
solo. It's better that 6 go dwon with me than that 3 or 4 share in a draw.
I believ Russia will solo. Ben should have moved north last year. Him
attacking you when he could have built a fleet in EDI and LON was his last
chance. You believed in the press I sent else you wouldnt have built fleet
MAR.
Thats why I am willing to support HOL to deny BEN a build. Sorry I cant
support you into MUN.
Message from Austria to all
Hi all,
I don't know for the rest of you, but I'm not going to be
available from the december 24 to sometime after
january first because of the holydays, so an extension of
the next dl to january 6 would be appreciated.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in advance,
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
> > Ok, to recap the last few presses I sent you:
> > I am currently proposing that you support BEL so I can
> attack BEL and
> > HOL
> > but take only HOL, thus preserving the appearance of war between us.
> > The
> > goal with this illusion is to secure favorable builds from Russia if
> > possible.
>
> That's acceptable. The question is, how can I best contribute
> to a defense
> against Russia? Is it worthwhile to plow through Munich, or
> should I just
> keep heading toward the Med?
Definitely MUN will have to be French, but I do not see that happening in
the coming year. Perhaps you can use private channels to prop up Germany
for a time? As to the Med, I certainly do not need navel assistance (sp?
;-)). So I would encourage you to maximize the value of your fleets by
pressing Andy. TUN once captured is easily held and you will hopefully have
a good chance at the Italian home centers, if Andy continues to press East.
If not, you will have to grind them out, but you should still be able to
squeeze him with assistance from Jason (until he's stabbed by Russia).
> > Also you mentioned that you did not think I would lose KIE
> and I asked
> > you
> > whether you'd heard anything on that point.
> >
> > I know you are busy - get back to me when you can.
> >
>
> Instead of taking Holland, you could take Belgium, leaving Holland to
> *support* Kiel. If Hel supports Kiel also, you can keep it no
> matter what.
> I think I can get German support into Munich, purely out of spite, and
> that keeps me at the same center count while you take Bel from Eng. It
> sounds a little crazy, but it may make sense.
>
> What do you think?
It looks consistent with my plan - I will proceed as we've discussed.
> I know time is short, but I'll be around all day tomorrow.
What would you like me to do with IRI?
Ben
Message from France to England
> What would you like me to do with IRI?
>
> Ben
>
I'd prefer to see it head north, and if I'm supporting you anyway, there's
no need to keep the "we're fighting" ruse going. You've got more than
enough fleet power to dominate Scandanavia regardless of the Russians
building F StP (Nc), and he'll probably do that anyway. I would encourage
you to send as much firepower his way as possible.
You're right, Munich probably won't be mine, but I think I can handle the
loss of Belgium alone this turn, and with luck, I'll be able to gain
enough to cover that and Holland in the next year.
So I'll support Kiel from Holland and ensure that you keep it, and you'll
take Bel from Eng (and head north from Iri?), thereby easing my anxiety.
Does that sound like a deal?
Jason is definitely worried about a Russian stab (and for obvious good
reasons). We should encourage that paranoia -- even though it means less
help against Andy, it's better for all of us in the long run to see RT
cooperation come to an end.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> > What would you like me to do with IRI?
> I'd prefer to see it head north, and if I'm supporting you
> anyway, there's
> no need to keep the "we're fighting" ruse going.
Doh! You are correct, of course.
> So I'll support Kiel from Holland and ensure that you keep
> it, and you'll
> take Bel from Eng (and head north from Iri?), thereby easing
> my anxiety.
> Does that sound like a deal?
I can commit to heading north from IRI if you can commit to heading south
from MAO, which I imagine you were doing anyway.
> Jason is definitely worried about a Russian stab (and for obvious good
> reasons). We should encourage that paranoia -- even though it
> means less
> help against Andy, it's better for all of us in the long run to see RT
> cooperation come to an end.
Absolutely. The worse the chaos in the East, the better for us. Also
Turkish pressure against Eric would be a good thing.
Ben
Message from Russia to France
> I've been trying my hardest to get England to back down a bit, but I'm not
> sure what he's really going to do.
Well, clearly he's telling me that he's going after you, since what else
would he say. My guess, though, is that he's telling the truth, since his
moves last season more or less require him to follow through with the attack
for at least one more season.
> Obviously, I'd be extremely grateful if
> you could find a way to get me into Munich and / or put some pressure on
> him through Scandanavia.
Well, in talking with Tony I'm a little more worried about the former
(getting you into Mun). What's he telling you he's going to be doing with
Ruh? I know he said in shared press that he was supporting Hol, but I'm
wondering if maybe he's going to try to retake Mun. That would allow England
to expand against you (which is good for him) and would rid him of an army
that you have threatening him. So I'm afraid that even if I try to get you
into Mun that we may just end up helping him (with a 2-2 bounce, he'd hold
the center). However, I should be able to put pressure on Ben in Scandinavia.
If I'dve known he was really going after you, I could have kept A Swe, but I
didn't think I could risk letting a fleet into Nwy with no units covering
StP!
> Meanwhile, down south, what do you think is going to happen? Italy was
> hopping mad with me, but if Turkey's going to keep coming at him, that's
> not so much a concern.
I think that AI are really poorly matched personalities that have trouble
getting along. The cooperation that I've had with Jason are making them
seriously consider cooperation -- which would mean Andy being free to head
west. (Andy has already dropped hints to me that this is his plan.) So
anything you can do with Philippe to get him more nervous about Andy and keep
an AI from forming is going to be good for both of us.
I think this (keeping AI from cooling their differences) is the biggest thing
we can do. I can distract Ben in the north fairly easily, but I can't
distract Andy directly -- I have to do that through Philippe and Jason.
Clearly I've peeved off Philippe, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to
mend that fence. I will try to ensure that Jason keeps pressing Andy. Do you
have any conversations with Jason? Do you have any reason to believe he's
*not* going to press Andy further?
> I'll be around all day tomorrow. Please write when you get a chance.
Sorry it took so long!
--- Eric
Austria: Fleet Albania SUPPORT Italian Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Austria: Army Trieste → Budapest (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna SUPPORT Army Trieste → Budapest
England: Fleet English Channel → Belgium
England: Fleet Helgoland Bight SUPPORT Fleet Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet Irish Sea → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
England: Fleet Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Fleet English Channel → Belgium
France: Army Belgium SUPPORT Army Holland (*cut, dislodged*)
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Western Mediterranean (*bounce*)
France: Army Holland SUPPORT English Fleet Kiel (*void, destroyed*)
France: Army Marseilles → Piedmont
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Brest
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Western Mediterranean
Germany: Army Berlin → Kiel
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Berlin → Kiel
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Army Rome → Tuscany
Italy: Fleet Tunis → Western Mediterranean (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Tyrolia → Trieste (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tunis → Western Mediterranean
Russia: Fleet Baltic Sea → Denmark
Russia: Army Budapest HOLD
Russia: Army Munich SUPPORT German Army Berlin → Kiel (*cut*)
Russia: Army Norway → Sweden
Russia: Fleet Rumania → Sevastopol
Russia: Army Sevastopol → Ukraine
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Munich
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea → Eastern Mediterranean
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Greece → Aegean Sea
Turkey: Army Serbia SUPPORT Russian Army Budapest
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