|
|
Message from France to France
Well, this is ironic. No country bedeviled me and contributed to me demise
more than France last game, and my punishment for bad play appears to be
that I must follow in the footsteps of his excellent play. To add insult
to injury, I played a (very quick) game as France about a month ago where
I made an aggregious tactical error that allowed Andy Bartalone to
eviscerate me, and it looks like he's playing this game, too. Let's hope I
don't make the same mistakes twice.
As you may have gathered, I was Germany in the first comments game, and
while I think I showed flashes of excellent play, I was, for the most
part, outmatched. This game, we (you the spectators and I) shall see how
much I learned from reading the commentary from last game, and whether I
can bring my game to the next level and play with the big boys.
For a variety of reasons, I experimented with an unorthodox press style at
the beginning of the last game that didn't really pan out. This game, I
will be playing as voluminously as I can -- my goal is at least one press
to every player every movement phase. You heard it here first -- if I
fail, feel free to harangue me when I'm eliminated.
In addition, I will be doing as much as possible to tune my press style to
each individual player -- chatty players will get chatty e-mails, terse
players will get information more to the point. This doesn't mean mimcry,
just a little adaptation.
Okay, here we go.
Erik
(hereafter to be known as Mr. France)
Message from England to France
Erik -
I'm glad to see you wanted to give comments another shot & I hope the real life concerns that interfered with parts of your game last time spare you this time.
My thinking is right now get a lay of the land, diplomatically speaking, & see where we are. Meet Germany, meet Russia, etc. Of course I do not think we have to be introduced to Italy. :-O
After we've heard from one or two of our neighbors I'd like to start making some long term plans with you. E/F is as dangerous an alliance as R/T, after all, without the nasty nickname.
Also I promise not to be as difficult to work with as Tamas. No offense, Tamas, if you're out there.
Ben
Message from France to England
>
> After we've heard from one or two of our neighbors I'd like to start
> making some long term plans with you. E/F is as dangerous an alliance
> as R/T, after all, without the nasty nickname.
Yes, we can call it the NautJugger and completely confuse the rest of the
board!
Of course I'm giving it another shot. Gotta see if people can learn from
their mistakes, right? And the time constraints I was under last time
have, thankfully, dissipated -- note the prompt reply to your press.
Your approach sounds sensible. While it's good to know that I've got at
least one communicative neighbor, we should wait a day to get a feel for
the competition before we start making plans. On a side note, I actually
just finished a game with Andy, me playing France and him playing Italy,
where, quite frankly, he whipped my butt. I left myself wide open to an
early Italian attack, and he has taught me to never do that again. At
least he knows I'll be watching him this time.
I will get back to you as soon as I've heard some other introductions. For
now, though, I'd say that our early communication is a good sign for
future cooperation.
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
What is this, some kind of sick joke? Should I just hand Marseilles over
to you now and be done with it?
Seriously, dude, you finished me off nicely in sete -- just keep in mind
that I won't be making those mistakes twice. This is a comments game, now,
so I've got to play well to avenge my past failures.
Anyway, just wanted to drop a quick note before the Diplomacy kicks into
full gear. I would suggest a DMZ, but the last time I did that, it had
about as much authority as a deed for land on the surface of the moon.
When I have a better picture of our neighbors, though, I will certainly be
back with suggestions that are a bit more proactive. Hope you'll do the
same.
Cheers,
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> On a side note, I actually just finished a game with Andy,
> me playing France and him playing Italy, where, quite frankly,
> he whipped my butt. I left myself wide open to an early
> Italian attack, and he has taught me to never do that again. At
> least he knows I'll be watching him this time.
You know, I almost included in my note that he seemed like just the kind of
player to send Italy after France from the beginning. But I didn't, I just
sent you the :-O instead. Heh.
> I'd say that our early communication is a good sign for
> future cooperation.
There isn't as much fresh meat as there was in comments, I don't know if you
checked out the jdpr's, but Germany's was 13xx as I recall & Austria's in
that neighborhood too. And then there's Andy B. . . Anyway, I like your
early press & I agree it's a good sign.
Ben
Message from Italy to France
Erik.....
> What is this, some kind of sick joke? Should I just hand Marseilles over
> to you now and be done with it?
No....that wont be neccesary....hopefully, ever.
> Seriously, dude, you finished me off nicely in sete -- just keep in mind
> that I won't be making those mistakes twice. This is a comments game, now,
> so I've got to play well to avenge my past failures.
And I am ready to work with you to do that.
> Anyway, just wanted to drop a quick note before the Diplomacy kicks into
> full gear. I would suggest a DMZ, but the last time I did that, it had
> about as much authority as a deed for land on the surface of the moon.
Cmon now....it worked for a little while
And it will work for the balance of the game this time...
> When I have a better picture of our neighbors, though, I will certainly be
> back with suggestions that are a bit more proactive. Hope you'll do the
> same.
Well....Tony Vernon is Germany. And he is one of the best players in the
world....as least as good as Tamas.....
Ben Harris isnt a bad player in England....I think you have issues.
I dont know any of the eastern players.....and as you know...I suck at
this game, so I am probably in a world of hurt.
Talk to you soon.
Andy
Message from France to Germany
German leader:
Greetings and salutations. As your immediate neighbor, I didn't want to
waste any time introducing myself and establishing some kind of dialogue.
I'm still trying to get the lay of the land, so I don't have any specific
requests or suggestions right now, but there's obviously a lot of
potential for cooperation between the two of us. I know a few of the
players here in the West, and I'll be happy to share what a I know about
them, but the East is sort of a mystery.
Ben Harris, the English player, was a commentator in the last comments
game, in which I played Germany. He seems like a sharp guy with some good
insight into the game. Andy, the Italian player, just whipped me in
another game, so I'm quite familiar with his style of play (and hopefully,
I won't be making the same mistakes twice).
Let me know when you get your embassies cranking, and we can try to hash
out some sort of early plan. I assume you're headed for Holland and
Denmark; as far as I'm concerned, Belgium is open to discussion, and
something that should be resolved sooner rather than later.
Erik
Message from France to England
> There isn't as much fresh meat as there was in comments, I don't know if
> you
> checked out the jdpr's, but Germany's was 13xx as I recall & Austria's
> in
> that neighborhood too. And then there's Andy B. . . Anyway, I like
> your
> early press & I agree it's a good sign.
>
Word on the street is that Germany's a damned fine player. We mustn't let
him get the best of us. I'm writing him as soon as I'm done with this
message, but I think, given his skill, that it would be wise for us to
compare notes early and often. Of course, if we find ourselves all getting
along nicely early on, I'd be willing to entertain a Western Triple that
lets me head south.
I don't know much about the Eastern players. Eric G. was a commentator,
though, I remember that much.
Erik
Message to all
Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
ID Email Name JDPR Rating JDPR
Games JDPR Rank
1791 ericg (at) mac.com Eric Goodman 1349.00 5
288 8 0 8.00
What is Jason's JDPR? I couldnt find him.
This must be our Benjamin:
ID Email Name JDPR Rating JDPR Games JDPR Rank RR Games RR Resignations
RR Ratio
6887 benjamin.harris (at) mindspring.com Ben Harris 1012.00 4 3835 4 0
4.00
Message from Germany to France
Hello Eric, greetings to you to neighbour....
> I didn't want to waste any time introducing myself and establishing some
kind of dialogue>
I too agree that everyone has a right to your opinion
> I'm still trying to get the lay of the land>
Good to hear, watch out for rocks and lose dirt it can be dangerous out
there.
> so I don't have any specific requests or suggestions right now, but
there's obviously a lot of potential for cooperation between the two of us>
When I have some concrete details to discuss I wont hesitate to share them
with you. As you point out the potential is definitely there. Lets ask
around and make our plans more definitive.
>I know a few of the players here in the West, and I'll be happy to share
what a I know about them, but the East is sort of a mystery.>
By all means do, I tend to let the situation in the world (created by
everyones actions) dictate my strategy. Stab me once, stab me twice even a
3rd time and if the situation calls for it I will make you my trusty ally
and we will stab your enemy together.
> Ben Harris, the English player, was a commentator in the last comments>
We have just been intoduced. My final p.s. to him was ;
p.s. OK, I will not eliminate you before the end op '01 and I will take your
desire for Belgium to heart in negotiations with my neighbours. Should
France have the same desire regarding Belgium then I am more than willing to
act as a go between. The world is large enough for the three of us.
> Let me know when you get your embassies cranking, and we can try to hash
out some sort of early plan. I assume you're headed for Holland and
Denmark; as far as I'm concerned, Belgium is open to discussion, and
something that should be resolved sooner rather than later.>
For now I have only spoken to England he wants Belgium as you can see from
my p.s. to him, he did however add that it was open to negotiation. If you
and I take objection to this then we must discuss the matter further.
Dont judge me on your previous moves (when you played GErmany ;-),
I have no need to bounce in BUR unless you request me to do so nor will i go
there.
Once I have spoken to Italy, austria and the rest of the world I will give
you a run down of how I see things unfolding.
Lets keep in touch. For now I only have growth on my mind (1 or 2). I havent
yet decided where to grab this growth this year or spread it over next year
as well.
When I do I will let you know. My objective will be based on what I hear. In
the meantime let me know how you wish to discuss belgium. Do we bend over
and let England take it or just give him that impression.
Thanks for your insight into the other players, I will take it into account.
But once again the board usually dictates my actions and diplomacy.
Tony
Message from Germany to all
Greetings all, Just thought that I would let you know that I wish to solo
and that I hope to have a good time whilst doing so.
I will have to make Belgium my 18th SC as England has desires for it. It is
negotiable according to England but hey
if he wants it then I will take Beligium last. It wont matter then.
Anyone else have any wishes. If not then all just vote me the winner and we
can move on.
I am easy, if two of you have the same solo wish then hey lets compromise
;-)
May you all live for as long as you want and never want for as long as you
live.
Tony
p.s. Its bedtime here in holland (Ben its 00:03 a.m. now), will get back to
A,T, R tomorrow.
Message from Master to all
Players,
The game has now started, powers have been assigned and the opening
salvos have been fired. I think we've got a great group of players in
this game, so I'm sure it will be a great experience for all of you
and for our commentators.
One of our players will be gone for a week from the 10th to the 18th.
I'm hoping that we can complete our first year before that hiatus.
Just to let you know, right now we've got over twenty commentators. I
expect that a few more will trickle in over the next few days.
Also, each Spring, as early as I can, I'm going to broadcast the
following message. After the first few years, I might cut back to once
every second year. I just want to make sure no one forgets about this.
------------
Players,
Please keep in mind that if you'd like to share your plans, strategy
and whatnot with the commentators, you can do that by sending press to
yourself. That way the commentators will see your comments, but other
players will not. If you send "press to o", anyone can see your
comments by requesting a history of the game. If you send "press to
m", I will see your comments but the commentators will not.
You are not required to share information with the commentators, but
you are encouraged to do so.
Greg, GM
C2
-------------
I'd like to wish everyone the best of luck in the game - have a great
game everyone.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Russia to all
>[Grey] Broadcast message in 'c2':
>Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
Da, dat's me, Tovarich. But watz wit' all the hush-hush secret
stuff? You messin' wit' me? Why doncha come out where's I can see ya,
huh?
--- Tzarface
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
Great, now I'm in *two* games with players named Eri(c|k). Keeps
things nice and confusing. Think we can get EG to send us misdirected
press is we alternate how we sign our press. :)
I'm a talkative player and I like to keep in contact with people
across the board as well as nearby ones. I guess the good thing about
Russia is that it gives most players a reason to want to talk to me
-- whatever you plan to do, there's room for RF cooperation against
either E or G. Especially if either of us ends up on the wrong end of
EG cooperation, it will do us good to be able to make sure the other
doesn't get wiped out to keep those guys honest.
--- Tzarface
Message from England to all
> This must be our Benjamin:
> Ben Harris 1012.00
I just want to point out, that my JDPR is within several percentage points
of Andy's, at 1085. Therefore I am pretty much as good as Andy Bartalone,
who is well known in some circles as a player who uses ellipses very
frequently. . .
Also I want to point out that Greg's JDPR of 1431 is highest of all of us,
and I think we should gang up on him and fix the game settings so we all
solo.
Finally I want Tony to know that Belgium is his, if he will but send me a
case of that weird fruit flavored beer they have there.
Thank you.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Word on the street is that Germany's a damned fine player. We mustn't let
> him get the best of us. I'm writing him as soon as I'm done with this
> message, but I think, given his skill, that it would be wise for us to
> compare notes early and often.
I'm getting the sense Andy is nudging us toward an EF vs. G, and I'm
guessing the reason is, Andy wants to see the west resolve as slowly as
possible so he can focus on the East. He would like us to struggle as
allies against a superior Germany, I'm thinking, because if it were an EG
or FG he would have to worry (a) that the west is resolving too quickly and
(b) that the dangerous Tony Vernon is growing too quickly. I suspect if
our alliance structure were something other than EF we would find a stray
unit in, say, PIE or TYR, upsetting the balance to try to straighten things
out.
I frankly am leaning toward an EF myself, right now, having heard from
Germany. He's giving me the heebie jeebies. No concrete discussions, in
fact I think he studiously avoided them. You'll hear from him tomorrow I
imagine - let me know what you think.
> Of course, if we find ourselves all getting
> along nicely early on, I'd be willing to entertain a Western Triple that
> lets me head south.
The player most at risk in the western triple is Germany. So I am all in
favor of you suggesting it but I would not be surprised to see it shot down.
> I don't know much about the Eastern players. Eric G. was a commentator,
> though, I remember that much.
Yeah. I checked out his record. He's played a few games & soloed once as
Italy. A good player.
We'll write more tomorrow I'm sure. Now it's bedtime.
Ben
Message from France to Russia
>
> Great, now I'm in *two* games with players named Eri(c|k). Keeps
> things nice and confusing. Think we can get EG to send us misdirected
> press is we alternate how we sign our press. :)
Clearly, with names like ours, we're destined for greatness. The non-
Eric|ks of the game will crumble beneath our bisyllabic power.
Seriously, I'm glad to see that we're on the same page with EG. I've
always felt that FR have a tremendous ability to keep their neighbors
caged in and playing off one another, and I've done and seen it happen in
game after game. We're obviously not dealing with novices in this game,
but I'd really like to make a concerted effort to work with you to
maintain some leverage against these two.
I've already heard from both of them; Tony's style seems to rub Ben a
little wrong, which I think is an excellent sign. Let's hope that Belgium
broadcast, while clearly made in jest, gave Ben at least little case of
the heebie-jeebies.
I can't say I know much about the rest of your neighbors, though I'm very
familiar with Andy. I'm hoping to hear from the rest of them soon.
Erik
(note the correct spelling)
Message from France to England
> I suspect if
> our alliance structure were something other than EF we would find a
> stray
> unit in, say, PIE or TYR, upsetting the balance to try to straighten
> things
> out.
I concur. If he sees a lot of imbalance in the area, we can count on a
play against Germany or I. While that's probably not bad for you in the
short run, the last thing you want is Andy B. with the run of the
Mediterranean. We will all be better off if I'm still around down there
to keep him in line.
>
> I frankly am leaning toward an EF myself, right now, having heard from
> Germany. He's giving me the heebie jeebies. No concrete discussions,
> in
> fact I think he studiously avoided them. You'll hear from him tomorrow
> I
> imagine - let me know what you think.
Already heard from him. It took a little time to sort out the dry wit
from the serious statements; those broadcasts threw me for a little loop
briefly.
He's gunning to stir up trouble over Belgium, I think, which he's
probably got plans on (like all of us, I guess). The only concrete
information that he passed along is that you have interest in the space --
a piece of news so obvious, you have to wonder why he even points it
out, right? In any case, without having spent a lot of time conversing
with him, I can tell you right now that you seem a much easier person to
work with. As soon as we've got a sense of the Russian's early thoughts,
I think we should begin discussing some specifics.
>
> > Of course, if we find ourselves all getting
> > along nicely early on, I'd be willing to entertain a Western Triple
> that
> > lets me head south.
> The player most at risk in the western triple is Germany. So I am all
> in
> favor of you suggesting it but I would not be surprised to see it shot
> down.
Sure, why not? At least the rumor will get out there and keep Russia and
Italy on their toes. I'll suggest it to Tony in my next message. If you'd
like to make the same suggestion, please do so -- as you said, Germany's
usually the fall guy in the end of those deals.
>
> > I don't know much about the Eastern players. Eric G. was a
> commentator,
> > though, I remember that much.
> Yeah. I checked out his record. He's played a few games & soloed once
> as
> Italy. A good player.
Well, my record's awful, but I'm on the mend, I hope.
>
> We'll write more tomorrow I'm sure. Now it's bedtime.
>
I hear you. Talk to you in the morning.
Erik
Message to all
> >[Grey] Broadcast message in 'c2':
> >Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
>
> Da, dat's me, Tovarich. But watz wit' all the hush-hush secret
> stuff? You messin' wit' me? Why doncha come out where's I can see ya,
> huh?
No.....Eric Hunter played Russia in the first game...not Eric Goodman...
But Eric is every bit as good as his namesake.
Message from Italy to all
>
> > This must be our Benjamin:
> > Ben Harris 1012.00
>
> I just want to point out, that my JDPR is within several percentage points
> of Andy's, at 1085. Therefore I am pretty much as good as Andy Bartalone,
> who is well known in some circles as a player who uses ellipses very
> frequently. . .
Be careful what you say.....everyone here knows that I suck at this game.
> Also I want to point out that Greg's JDPR of 1431 is highest of all of us,
> and I think we should gang up on him and fix the game settings so we all
> solo.
Ok....I dont want to be part of that.....see Greg...I am not a
mutineer...:-)
> Finally I want Tony to know that Belgium is his, if he will but send me a
> case of that weird fruit flavored beer they have there.
That would be Lambic.
Message from Italy to England and France
Tony is already asking me to attack you both, so I suggest working
together.
Seriously.
Message from Turkey to all
Good to hear from everyone. I'm afraid I don't have a JDPR, although
it's not for lack of trying! All my games have completed since Jan 1 of
this year.
Looking forward to it....
jason
Message from Russia to all
> > >[Grey] Broadcast message in 'c2':
> > >Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
> >
> > Da, dat's me, Tovarich. But watz wit' all the hush-hush secret
> > stuff? You messin' wit' me? Why doncha come out where's I can see ya,
> > huh?
>
>No.....Eric Hunter played Russia in the first game...not Eric Goodman...
>
>But Eric is every bit as good as his namesake.
Lemme 'splain, 'cuz youse havin some trouble gettin' dem fax straight, see.
#1- I'm Eric. That other Eric, I'm his namesake. Just 'cuz he's been dippin
longer dan me an doin bedder dan me don't make him da original guy.
#2- Da first inkwyry was askin' if da' guy playin' Russia (dat's me,
comrade) is da same guy whatz got da ID dat he showed in da broadcast.
Since I'z da guy what used ta have da "@mac.com" moniker, he was inkwyrin'
about me, not dat udder Eric guy.
#3- Since I'z da one what said I'z da' guy what da udder guy was askin'
about, whatcha' doin' contradiktin' me in fronna' my whole family fer?
Alla dis disrepectin, an ya ain't even got da constatushun ta come out an
talk ta me face ta face. Sheesh! Watz da world comin' to, anyway?
--- Tzarface
Message from Russia to France
Hmm. I've only heard from England unless you count the German broadcast.
That doesn't seem like a good thing!
Do you want to approach EG with any particular strategy, or just play it by
ear for now?
Sorry, I was going to write more, but I'm being told I'm staying up too
late! More later.
--- Tzarface
Message from Germany to France
Well I have spoken to all my neighbours now, only Turkey left.
So far I have concluded that the Englishman will want Belgium. To do this he may go for the ENG and NTH. I have informed it that if anything only a fleet of his would be welcome. To ensure this he has to go for ENG. Just thought I would let you know. Italy seems friendly with Austria as does Russia with Turkey but I have yet to speak to the Turk. RA also seem reasonably friendly judging by the seperate press I received and after putting two and two together. This leads me to believe that Russia may open to the north. This may leave open up an opportunity for you and me in the west. AI will no doubt go after Turkey unless Italy has been convinced that GIT against France is a reasonable alternative for his VEN army if he is frinedly with Austria.
An english fleet in Belgium spells trouble for you, an english army in bel spells trouble for me as does a french army. I say cut the red tape and take POR and SPA using your armys. I will cover BEL if need be from RUH and push my fleet into holland and an army into denmark as you did last game. Only this time we will finish england off and not stop until we do so. Let me know what you think and what you have found out.
Message from Germany to all
> Finally I want Tony to know that Belgium is his, if he will but send me a
case of that weird fruit flavored beer they have there.<
Ah, you mean a case of the "forbidden drink", consider it done. Thank you for giving me BEL as my 18th center.
Message from Turkey to France
Good France,
I wanted to make sure to send you a note, if only to cover all my bases.
Of course, your stance toward Italy also interests me, but then again
a full French attack on Italy is so rare.
Let me know how EFG is doing, and I'll try to keep you up to date on
ART. So far, of course, things are only getting ramped up over here.
jason
Message from England to France and Italy
> Tony is already asking me to attack you both, so I suggest working
> together.
Based on what I hear from him - I don't doubt it. Thanks for the tip.
Ben
Message from Austria to France
Greeting Erik,
Just wanted to say hi and let you know I'm available if
you wish to discuss anything. Not that we have much
to discuss at the moment, but there's always bits of
informations that one find usefull.
Best regards,
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Already heard from him. It took a little time to sort out the dry wit
> from the serious statements; those broadcasts threw me for a
> little loop briefly.
Yeah. You call it dry wit, I call it making fun of me. I'm not sure what
purpose it's supposed to be serving.
> He's gunning to stir up trouble over Belgium, I think, which he's
> probably got plans on (like all of us, I guess). The only concrete
> information that he passed along is that you have interest in
> the space --
> a piece of news so obvious, you have to wonder why he even points it
> out, right? In any case, without having spent a lot of time conversing
> with him, I can tell you right now that you seem a much
> easier person to
> work with. As soon as we've got a sense of the Russian's
> early thoughts,
> I think we should begin discussing some specifics.
Absolutely. What I told him was that I was interested in Belgium but it was
negotiable. It was not a big deal - still isn't - but from that he has
extracted the broadcasts & apparently his press to you. Plus his recent
press to me included "Belgium" or "BEL" eight times in the whole two
paragraph press. Weird.
> Italy on their toes. I'll suggest it to Tony in my next
> message. If you'd like to make the same suggestion, please
> do so -- as you said, Germany's usually the fall guy in
> the end of those deals.
If we both propose it I think he would guess we were in cahoots.
> Well, my record's awful, but I'm on the mend, I hope.
We are all on the mend. ;o)
I will look over our tactical options later & hope you do the same. I am no
tactical genius & count on discussion to make plans.
Ben
Message from France to England
> > Tony is already asking me to attack you both, so I suggest working
> > together.
> Based on what I hear from him - I don't doubt it. Thanks for the tip.
>
> Ben
>
Good read on Andy, by the way. How much do you buy this? And what has Tony
said to you so far?
Wait, just got the second e-mail from you. You just answered my questions.
So, here's my take: we have a clearly volatile, experienced and ambitious
player in the form of Germany. Italy sees him as the largest threat in the
West; I'm fairly sure Andy is writing me off, and sees you as a midgame
problem to be dealt with later. Andy will probably keep an exploratory
unit hanging in the west, and if he sees an opening in the south, he'll
take it. Otherwise, he wants us tying up Tony until he can get sort things
out with ATR.
In the interest of parity, I'm willing to support you into Belgium, if I
can. I don't have an exact opening planned out, so that may not even be
feasible, but I'd certainly rather see you there than Germany. And, of
course, I'd feel much safer seeing a fleet there than an army, but if you
can provide a convincing argument for the latter, I'm willing to consider
it.
The big wild card here is Russia. I've done the opening salvos with him,
but I don't have anything concrete. After we've exchanged a few more
messages with him, we should confer and decide if he seems to be opening
more southerly or more northerly. At that point, I think we can get into
some tactical specifics.
I'll still write and suggest the triple to Tony, just to see what he says,
if nothing else.
Sound good?
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Greetings!
> Just wanted to say hi and let you know I'm available if
> you wish to discuss anything. Not that we have much
> to discuss at the moment, but there's always bits of
> informations that one find usefull.
>
There's always things to discuss, Phillipe. We've got plenty of common
neighbors, and I'm guessing we're already talking to both of them.
I don't really know Tony, who's playing Germany, too well, but I've faced
off against Andy a number of times and have a bit of a feel for how he
plays. The last game I played against him, I made a fatal error and left
an opening that he took great advantage of. Don't make the same mistake,
my friend.
From what I can tell right now, Italy sees Germany as a big long-term
threat, and would like to see him tied up in a squabble with as many
people as possible. He's certainly been goading England and I into early
animosity with him. Whether this is because Andy wants to head east and
needs the West off his back or because he wants to attack me and needs me
distracted I don't know, but I'll be keeping my eye on my southern centers
nevertheless.
Naturally, a better understanding of your relationship with Italy will
greatly improve my standings with him, so any information you can provide
me would be appreciated. I would suggest that, even if we're both friendly
with Italy, we agree now not to let him get control of the Mediterranean --
that spells trouble for both of us.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> Naturally, a better understanding of your relationship with Italy will
> greatly improve my standings with him, so any information you can provide
> me would be appreciated. I would suggest that, even if we're both friendly
> with Italy, we agree now not to let him get control of the Mediterranean --
> that spells trouble for both of us.
Agreed. At the moment, I'm on good term with Andy;
but have you ever seen Austria complain of Italy's
hostility in spring 1901 ;-)
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
> So, here's my take: we have a clearly volatile, experienced
> and ambitious
> player in the form of Germany. Italy sees him as the largest
> threat in the West; I'm fairly sure Andy is writing me off,
> and sees you as a midgame problem to be dealt with later.
> Andy will probably keep an exploratory unit hanging in the
> west, and if he sees an opening in the south, he'll take it.
> Otherwise, he wants us tying up Tony until he can get sort
> things out with ATR.
I could not agree more. I think you hit the nail on the head.
> In the interest of parity, I'm willing to support you into
> Belgium, if I can. I don't have an exact opening planned
> out, so that may not even be feasible, but I'd certainly
> rather see you there than Germany.
Thanks. Off the top of my head, there is the Maginot: MAR s PAR - BUR, BRE
- MAO. Sets you up to support me into BEL, from BUR, and still pick up
Iberia.
> And, of course, I'd feel much safer seeing a fleet
> there than an army, but if you can provide a convincing
> argument for the latter, I'm willing to consider it.
Food for thought, then:
If our plan is to attack Germany, are we not better situated if I have a F
NTH and A BEL? Rather than a A LVP (or NWY, or whatever) and F BEL? Seems
much more natural to me, as then Germany will be limited to at most two
builds and if we succeed in landing the army then so much the better.
> The big wild card here is Russia. I've done the opening
> salvos with him, but I don't have anything concrete. After
> we've exchanged a few more messages with him, we should
> confer and decide if he seems to be opening more southerly
> or more northerly. At that point, I think we can get into
> some tactical specifics.
In our favor I hope is your loquacious neighbor to the East. I bet Andy
will write to Russia pretty much what he wrote to us about Germany. Russia
can be promised a couple of dots in exchange for some cooperation, though
his involvement can and should be pretty limited.
> I'll still write and suggest the triple to Tony, just to see
> what he says, if nothing else.
Sure. He wrote me earlier vaguely suggesting an EG. I imagine he's vaguely
suggested an FG to you. . .
Let me know what you hear from Russia.
> Sound good?
Sounds excellent.
Ben
Message from France to Germany
>
> Well I have spoken to all my neighbours now, only Turkey left.
Yes, everyone seems present and accounted for, which is a good sign.
Nothing worse than a game with people missing from the start.
> So far I have concluded that the Englishman will want Belgium. To do
> this he may go for the ENG and NTH. I have informed it that if anything
> only a fleet of his would be welcome.
England usually wants Belgium, so this isn't much of a surprise, but I
appreciate the information. I can tell you from my plan that he's been
fairly aggressive about making deals with me, though he's not too strong
with specific tactical suggestions. I get the feeling that he'd really
like to get an army on the continent. I have also informed him that I'd
prefer to see a fleet in Bel.
I think his concern over taking Belgium is a possible sign that he's
headed south -- he and Russia are both rather talkative, so there's no
telling what's gone on between them. I'm largely guessing, but I think
they've done some early planning, and while that's not good for either of
us, it's particularly bad for you. I know you think Russia's opening
North; maybe my interpretation of the situation is wrong. Maybe I'm just
paraoid ;).
In any case, I'm agreed: it's better to keep English armies out of
Belgium. Obviously, I'd rather not see him go to Eng, but at least I can
prepare for it.
> RA also seem reasonably friendly judging by the seperate press I
> received and after putting two and two together. This leads me to
> believe that Russia may open to the north. This may leave open up an
> opportunity for you and me in the west. AI will no doubt go after Turkey
> unless Italy has been convinced that GIT against France is a reasonable
> alternative for his VEN army if he is frinedly with Austria.
>
So you think RAI against Turkey, eh? Sometimes that's not the best for
France -- Italy usually gets bored and heads west. I will have to keep an
eye on him. Any heads up you can give me about his movements would be
appreciated.
Italy also seems to be very wary of you -- just thought I'd let you know.
I don't know if you've played against him before, but I get the feeling
that he sees you as a serious long-term threat. Maybe I'm wrong. And
doesn't a friendly RAI mean problems for you down the road, too?
I like your opening plans. I need to study the map a little more, but I
can tell you that the opening you talked about worked out for me last
game. If you're proposing keeping England out of Belgium, where would you
like to head after we succeed in keeping him contained?
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Thanks for the heads up, Andy. What's up with you and Tony? Do you have
some kind of history together?
I hear you're making friends in the east. I hope this doesn't mean that
you'll be making any non-friendly visits to Marseilles any time soon. I'd
hate to spend the first few years hanging around down there just to cover
my butt. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to your plans and relieve some
nagging paranoia, all assurances otherwise aside. Austria seems to think
you're pretty friendly, for what that's worth, but I haven't heard the
same from Turkey.
If you're *really* worried about Tony, I'd be willing to consider trying
the same tactic we tried last game, but without me going wishy-washy and
doubling back on England this time. I think Ben might be on board for that
sort of thing.
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Hi Erik, good to hear from you.
>I get the feeling that he'd really like to get an army on the continent.>
I have made it clear to him that I would not accept an army in Belgium.
>Maybe I'm just paraoid ;).>
I think we all are.
>Italy usually gets bored and heads west. I will have to keep an
eye on him. Any heads up you can give me about his movements would be
appreciated.> I will answer to this in a moment.
>GIT against France is a reasonable alternative for his VEN army if he is
friendly with Austria.>
I ment to say GIE against France, not GIT against france.
By this I ment that unless England mentioned he had spoken to Italy to you
then he kept it secret. If I tie this to your statement about england moving
south because he seems friendly with Russia then keeping his talks with
Italy secret
fits in. Speaking of paranoia ;-)
On the other hand he may be cooperating with england and move VEN - TYR to
help solve englands need for Belgium.
>Italy usually gets bored and heads west. I will have to keep an
eye on him. Any heads up you can give me about his movements would be
appreciated.>
I will come to that after your next line of text.
>Italy also seems to be very wary of you -- just thought I'd let you know.
I don't know if you've played against him before, but I get the feeling
that he sees you as a serious long-term threat. Maybe I'm wrong. And
doesn't a friendly RAI mean problems for you down the road, too?>
Now for answers to both the above. Italy is I believe still trying to sort
out an agreement with Austria.
I havent played against him before, I guess we are all long term threats to
each other.
Yes a friendly RAI would spell trouble for me at some time or another as it
would to England and you.
That brings me back to my initial EFG comments I made during day 1.
I get the feeling though that England will sit out the spring and see what
happens.
You too can afford to do so as can I.
>>I like your opening plans. I need to study the map a little more, but I
can tell you that the opening you talked about worked out for me last
game. If you're proposing keeping England out of Belgium, where would you
like to head after we succeed in keeping him contained?>>
To england ofcourse. First clean up our backyard. If we cant get him onboard
then we should ensure that Russia doesnt get him onboard first. With an army
each in the UK we could take EDI and LVP and use LON as a share SC given to
the one who needs it most at the time. But no more that an army each in the
UK.
We help each other around PIE/TYR. If the situation allows it then you
passing through MUN is also a possibility.
Its hard to hold anyway. We could swap LON for MUN when the ocassion calls
for it and swap back once you leave MUN.
I have more growth potential than you unless I let you pass through MUN at
some time or another.
Especially if we have a strong Italy.
Just thoughts on a long term strategy. But first we have to sort out the
EFG. Do we sit back in the spring and await what happens or do we all 3 join
forces now. I dont think he will come on board. He wont commit until next
year.
Or shall me and you come out all guns blazing and make his mind up for him?
Let me know.
Turkey is the quiet one, he hasnt said much as far as I know.
Message from Germany to England and France
Well France just sent me a press. Either all three of us sit back and wait
or we start an EFG press going to kill time and see what develops. Any
preference? or will you two be paying me a visit ;-)
Message from Italy to France
> Thanks for the heads up, Andy. What's up with you and Tony? Do you have
> some kind of history together?
No....he is just a VERY good player.
> I hear you're making friends in the east. I hope this doesn't mean that
> you'll be making any non-friendly visits to Marseilles any time soon. I'd
> hate to spend the first few years hanging around down there just to cover
> my butt. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to your plans and relieve some
> nagging paranoia, all assurances otherwise aside. Austria seems to think
> you're pretty friendly, for what that's worth, but I haven't heard the
> same from Turkey.
I assure you that no unauthorized visits to the south of France are
scheduled.
> If you're *really* worried about Tony, I'd be willing to consider trying
> the same tactic we tried last game, but without me going wishy-washy and
> doubling back on England this time. I think Ben might be on board for that
> sort of thing.
I need ot worry about a couple of other things, Tony is just a good enough
player that I had to make you well aware of it...and you and Ben should be
ok until I get this stuff sorted out.
Andy
Message from England to France and Germany
Oops! Didn't realize this was sent to France too. I'll send it again:
******
Seriously, about an EFG. First of all I had read that it is Germany who
takes the risk. Second, I do not think it will affect my S'01, except I
guess would resolve the Channel, but my opening would remain the standard
one you suggested before. So I don't know how much it affects me.
Are you prepared to order BER - SIL? Or do you have something else in mind?
> Well France just sent me a press. Either all three of us sit back and wait
> or we start an EFG press going to kill time and see what develops. Any
> preference? or will you two be paying me a visit ;-)
Sorry - I was waiting for you to open up the three-way discussion.
Ben
******
Message from Germany to England and France
> Oops! Didn't realize this was sent to France too. I'll send it again:
>
> ******>
It wasnt was it? anyway it is now. But nothing secret as can be seen
Unless you ment to say "Didnt realize this wasn't sent to France too".
> Seriously, about an EFG. First of all I had read that it is Germany who
> takes the risk. Second, I do not think it will affect my S'01, except I
> guess would resolve the Channel, but my opening would remain the standard
> one you suggested before. So I don't know how much it affects me.
>
> Are you prepared to order BER - SIL? Or do you have something else in
mind?
>
> > Well France just sent me a press. Either all three of us sit back and
wait
> > or we start an EFG press going to kill time and see what develops. Any
> > preference? or will you two be paying me a visit ;-)
> Sorry - I was waiting for you to open up the three-way discussion.
>
> Ben
> ******
>
Well as stated in my reply. I would have to be very sure of an EFG to order
that move.
Lets start talking. Get the press going. I havent eaten yet so you two talk
and count me in the press. I will reply later this evening.
Message from England to France
Erik -
The standard opening moves for the Western Triple are pretty safe for us -
LON - NTH, EDI - NWG for me, BRE - MAO, PAR - BUR, MAR - SPA for you.
Germany, though, orders to RUH, DEN, and SIL(!) & I've received private
press from Germany proposing, if we were to carry it out, orders to SIL,
DEN, and BOH! Can't hurt to listen to him, though frankly my instinct right
now is just to look for an opportunity for us to take advantage of the
armies out of position by dropping the hammer as hard as we can.
I don't trust him any further than I can throw him, but who knows where this
dialogue will lead. Let me know what you think. One option will be you
trying for MUN in the fall, which according to the Western Triple formula
will be available.
Play along with him & see where it goes, if you don't mind. Could be good,
and if we maneuver ourselves into a position where G gets crushed quickly
then we will be able to push that much quicker to our next objectives. . .
Ben
Message from France to France
[n.b. Slow day at work, so I'm unusually chatty. Don't expect this much
commentary to the peanut gallery the whole game, though I will try to
check in regularly. ]
Here's the story of the board, as I will tell it:
Italy's got a serious beef with Germany for unknown personal reasons
relating to fear, long-held grudges and simple competitiveness.
Germany's not reciprocating Italy's beef, but is instead keen on
eliminating England early and quickly. He has no worries about Russia or
Austria.
Russia and England are in cahoots, and are sizing up Germany for a quick
kill.
Turkey is the odd man out. He needs to reach out to all his neighbors if
he's going to survive. RAI are all ganging up on him.
Italy is not as friendly with Austria as Austria thinks.
Now, I know that some, if not all, of this is untrue, but I am going to
act as if this is common, background knowledge and see how far I can
spread the belief. I'm hoping to avoid as much "hey, I heard so and so is
after you" talk as possible and lean instead on the "this is so obvious,
we can just chat about it like it's old hat" technique.
I am also getting the sense that my neighbors see me as the weakest of the
bunch. While this is true, I'm hoping a little "aw, shucks" talk on my
part can keep them underestimating me without all deciding to eliminate me
early. The key to this is to keep them focused on the "strongest player"
threats of the game, which essentially means each of them, depending on
who I'm talking to. I think that's the key to my survival.
I'd like to see an EFIR attack on Germany and his quick elimination. While
I'm willing to play fluidly, I think I've been a little too fluid in the
past, and I'd really like to put this plan together and stick to it.
I'm also going to work with Russia to plan England's demise as soon after
Germany's as possible. I think there's a real shot there, depending on how
the east falls out.
It is also absolutely crucial that Italy and/or Austria attack one
another, and soon. That may be impossible to make happen, but who knows?
I've got to try.
Hmm. Just got all this business about the EFG triple. Intriguing, because
I never mentioned the idea to Germany -- hadn't gotten around to it.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
> The standard opening moves for the Western Triple are pretty safe for us
> -
> LON - NTH, EDI - NWG for me, BRE - MAO, PAR - BUR, MAR - SPA for you.
> Germany, though, orders to RUH, DEN, and SIL(!) & I've received private
> press from Germany proposing, if we were to carry it out, orders to SIL,
> DEN, and BOH! Can't hurt to listen to him, though frankly my instinct
> right
> now is just to look for an opportunity for us to take advantage of the
> armies out of position by dropping the hammer as hard as we can.
Wow, that's nuts. I can't believe he'd leave himself that open that early.
Either he's sincere or he's got something big cooking, and there hasn't
been enough time for the latter. I'm also still inclined to rush in and
take advantage of the good position.
Perhaps he's working to make sure that a.) you've got Russian headaches
and b.) I've got Italian headaches to ensure that we stick to the plan. We
should investigate that possiblity. I can tell you that Italy's repeated
warnings about Tony sound a tad fishy, though as we've both said, he's
probably just stirring up trouble.
>
> I don't trust him any further than I can throw him, but who knows where
> this
> dialogue will lead. Let me know what you think. One option will be you
> trying for MUN in the fall, which according to the Western Triple
> formula
> will be available.
I think we should go ahead with it. As you said, not much risk to us, and
I could end up in Bur within a season with every German army rushing
toward Russia. Let's roll with this, keep it quiet, and bring Russia into
the fold if we decide to reverse course and attack Germany after the first
season.
Of course, we've still got a few days of diplomacy, so this could change.
At least we're both on the same page -- triple if it really looks
promising (and we face threats from Russia and Italy), fake triple / EF
attack on Germany with possible Russian assistance otherwise. Can we agree
to that medium-term plan?
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
>
> Well as stated in my reply. I would have to be very sure of an EFG to
> order
> that move.
> Lets start talking. Get the press going.
Couldn't agree more. If you're both amenable to a Western Triple, then I
think it's a good idea, too. Seems to me like RAI are getting pretty
friendly, and that's bad news for us -- after Turkey is dispatched, Italy
heads west, Russia heads north, and Austria bites into his German
neighbor. If we attack jointly early, we can take care of them while
they're still focusing on Turkey. With Italy being as cagey as he is
toward Germany and I, I think this is a very smart move.
So what are we each going to do specifically? I can open BRE - MAO, Mar -
SPA, Par - Bur, which is pretty standard western triple stuff. Or, we
could take this approach ...
http://devel.diplom.org/Zine/F1999R/Szykman/triple.html
Much more ambitious and with a better possible long-term reward, but it
only gets us one build each after the first year. Please take a look and
let me know what you think.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
My only specific plan right now is to make absolutely certain that an EG
alliance doesn't form. Since EG is bad news for you, too, I'd only ask
that you do everything in your diplomatic power to discourage it.
I think the early alliance structure will pan out shortly over here; at
this point, I'm favoring England, but I can say for certain in the next
couple of days. In any case, I would want to discuss getting you in place
to work against the survivor of the opening between those two. If there's
a quick war here in the west early, you've got time to resolve the south,
grow a bit, and be ready to swoop in and take on the surviving E or G with
me.
Of course, you may be interested in an anti-German or anti-English
opening off the bat, and that could change my plans completely. Please let
me know, if possible, if you're headed in that direction.
Austria and Italy seem cozy, but that's about all I have to offer. Any
info you can pass my way would be appreciated.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
Glad to know you're getting along with Andy. He tore me up last game, so
maybe I'm just feeling a little wary toward him. The cryptic references he
and Germany are making to one another probably aren't helping.
Anyway, there's not much new to report in the west. England, Germany and I
are working out the details of Belgium occupation; I suspect it will end
up English in the interests of at least temporary peace. I get the
impression that everyone is worried about Tony (Germany), so that
certainly helps my chances. As long as there's no EG, I'm home free, right?
Any word from Russia or Turkey?
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
Good to hear from you. Cross-board talk is always welcome; I'll try to
stay in touch as much as I can.
Gotta tell you, though, that early signs for you look bad. I could be
completely misinformed, but I think there's already talk of RAI
cooperation. Austria thinks that he and Italy are on good terms, and
Russia hasn't expressed much interest in heading north. You need to find a
regional friend fast. I have been trying to provoke animosity between AI,
but don't know if I've been successful. RAI is pretty bad for me, too,
because it usually means an early attack from Italy.
As for me -- my stance toward Italy is one of caution, given the history
I've got with Andy so far. You're right -- the early attack is rare, and
for good reason. Depending on how things shake out with EG, though, I
might be able to apply some pressure there if you need it. I should know
how things are shaking down here shortly -- just lots of Belgium-related
talk so far.
Just let me know how your negotiations are going, and I'll keep feeding
you whatever I hear. I'd hate to see you go down early.
Erik
Message from Germany to England and France
I like the look of it. Its a lot better than your suggested PAR - BUR ;-)
I would be willing to give it a try, only my moves can be considered really
agressive along with mar - pie.
France and I need to be pretty certain that england will join in and follow
through.
Lets see what england thinks.
Message from France to England
Ben:
On hindsight, I should have gone over that proposal with you first, but
what's done is done. I didn't think he'd ultimately go for the Par - Bur
opening, and his response confirms it.
In any case, a WT, even if we let it go longer than a couple of seasons,
still leaves us at an advantage. It's hard for Germany to build fleets and
justify them in this situation, and that's good for us.
Let me know what you think.
Erik
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
I have out of town company & will get back to you probably Sunday. I see
you have a proposal(s) on the table & I wish I had time to look at it but I
don't - sorry.
Ben
Message from Turkey to France
Good to hear from you, and I appreciate the warning.
So far, AIR all seem individually friendly, but of course that can
change in an instant. I don't think they're planning on coming after me
together, but they might draw that conclusion separately.
Good luck out there in the west. I'll try and keep in touch.
jason
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
>Since EG is bad news for you, too, I'd only ask
>that you do everything in your diplomatic power to discourage it.
EG doesn't sound likely so far, but I'll keep stoking whatever fires I can.
>Of course, you may be interested in an anti-German or anti-English
>opening off the bat, and that could change my plans completely. Please let
>me know, if possible, if you're headed in that direction.
I don't have any immediate anti-E or anti-G plans (as in, War-Sil, or
Mos-StP). I have the distinct impression that there has been some
significant central triple discussion going on, and in that sense, I
wouldn't be disappointed to see Germany fall fairly quickly, however.
By turns I hear that AI are bosom buddies and then that they are completely
at each others' throats (either of which is pretty impressive for so early
in the game!) FWIW, from what I hear Andy/Italy will be leaving you alone
and focusing east. If true, that should give you flexibility to be fairly
bold vis-a-vis Germany or England.
--- Tzarface
Message from England to France and Germany
> So what are we each going to do specifically? I can open BRE - MAO, Mar -
> SPA, Par - Bur, which is pretty standard western triple stuff. Or, we
> could take this approach ...
>
> http://devel.diplom.org/Zine/F1999R/Szykman/triple.html
>
> Much more ambitious and with a better possible long-term reward, but it
> only gets us one build each after the first year. Please take a look and
> let me know what you think.
This looks like a blast. I'm in.
Ben
p.s. I grabbed 30 seconds to look at the site & send this - if this is not
the proposal I should be looking at let me know.
Message from England to all
Gentlemen -
I have out of town company this weekend & will not likely be available
until about 36 hour from now. Which is roughly a day and a half, in Tony's
time.
Thank you for your patience.
Ben
Message from Austria to France
> impression that everyone is worried about Tony (Germany), so that
> certainly helps my chances. As long as there's no EG, I'm home free, right?
Given Tony's caliber, I doubt he would enter into a very restrictive
EG alliance with provision against the building of german fleets; but
this doesn't mean you aren't at risk of being attack by him anyway.
It's just that his game probably won't be limited to attacking you if
he does start that way.
> Any word from Russia or Turkey?
Talked to both, but haven't made my mind about them yet. What's
your first impression of them?
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
> On hindsight, I should have gone over that proposal with you first, but
> what's done is done. I didn't think he'd ultimately go for the Par - Bur
> opening, and his response confirms it.
That's ok. Next time we can discuss it together but really I think this
suggestion was outstanding. See below.
> In any case, a WT, even if we let it go longer than a couple of seasons,
> still leaves us at an advantage. It's hard for Germany to build fleets and
> justify them in this situation, and that's good for us.
I suppose. My concern is that soon after S'02, I will have filled NWY,
SWE, and STP, and you will be trying to grind out dots against Andy, and
Tony will have his choice of either the southern Russian centers, or the
Austrian centers, to be followed soon enough by the other. I just think,
after this opening has gotten out of the gate, it favors Germany. So long
term I do not know how well this works for us, though if we decide to try
to make it work I will work harder at justifying it to myself. ;-) Also
you do not want to find yourself between Tony & the remnants of Andy. But
see below.
> Let me know what you think.
Two things. First of all Tony has not actually committed yet. He said he
wanted to see what I thought, & I said I was in, but he has not said he
would do it yet. Not that we should harp on it; I'm just pointing that out.
Second. Because of the drawbacks for us as we push into '02 and beyond,
let me point out an alternate set of orders for Fall '01:
England
EDI - NTH - HOL
NWG - NWY
France
GAS - BUR
PIE - TYR
MAO - SPA/sc
This would restrict you to one build but if successful would give you *two*
units against an undefended MUN in S '02, and Germany would only be getting
one build as well. We would crush him. By the end of '02 we should have
two to three builds each with open lanes to the east in front of us.
The key would be getting Andy not to freak out as you passed from PIE -
TYR. I think we could do it, diplomatically, & I would try to exert some
influence there too to help you out. Perhaps rather than involve him now,
just try to smooth things over in the fall after you've entered PIE in the
spring. I'll leave it to you - you know him better than I do.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from France to Austria
>
> Talked to both, but haven't made my mind about them yet.
> What's your first impression of them?
Not much yet. Russia's been friendly, but Turkey hasn't offered a whole
lot that I can go with. My impression is the Eric is still getting a
feel for the situation, while Turkey doesn't see the point in spending
too much time talking to me. Still early, though.
Erik
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
I have put my moves in with wait set, for the Western Triple opening we
discussed.
Are we all in?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I can tell you that Italy's repeated
> warnings about Tony sound a tad fishy,
> though as we've both said, he's
> probably just stirring up trouble.
I do not know whether Tony is indeed one of the best in the world or whether
Andy's expression that he is was sincere. But it is clear from my & our
correspondence with him that he is a big time player. And I would not be
surprised later to learn that Andy was sincere in his description, as for
his purposes there would have been little difference between "one of the
best in the world" and "one of the best I've played" or even "a total
cutthroat lying cretin." I do not think he lightly chose the words, one of
the best in the world. I think he meant it. Though he was probably
referring to ftf.
Ben
Message from Germany to England and France
Count me in, I like the look of it. I like unusual openings. Its the only
decent proposal so far.
I run the most risk as I have to full frontal on Russia.
It will be interesting to see their faces in the fall. But I will want to
see frances approval
Message from England to all
Greetings one and all. Company's gone & the house is quiet, but tomorrow
will probably be pretty busy, so forgive me if response time lags.
Ben
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
>Of course, you may be interested in an anti-German or anti-English
>opening off the bat, and that could change my plans completely. Please let
>me know, if possible, if you're headed in that direction.
Okay, at this point I'm still looking at an innocuous opening, but I would
probably be happier with an anti-G move from you if I get a vote. I don't
really care from a board setup point of view, but I think Germany is much
more dangerous of a player and has more of an alliance structure setup with
IA, so would be more difficult to take out later.
But since I'm not planning to be obvious about helping you right away
(War-Sil is a pretty insane opening move in my mind!) that's not by any
means an ultimatum.
--- Tzarface
Message from France to England
Ben:
> I do not know whether Tony is indeed one of the best in the
> world or whether Andy's expression that he is was sincere.
> But it is clear from my & our correspondence with him that he
> is a big time player.
I've heard rumblings from another source that there's some sort of GAI
agreement in the works, or at least that there's been a lot of talk of
it. This is consistent with the picture I'm getting from Austria and
Italy, though not Germany. Tony may be playing both sides, hoping that
Italy runs head first into me while you help him with Russia.
I think that as interesting as this triple might be, we may not be able
to trust Tony enought to pull it off. Are you getting the same sense?
In any case, I suppose the first two turns will probably work, and Tony,
even if he's working with AI, will probably play ball for a little
while. It's in his interest to keep us off his back while he dispatches
Russia. Still, we should plan now to lower the boom within a few
seasons.
Let me look at the map and the proposal that I sent out and get back to
you with specifics. Just wanted to get this message out before it got
too late.
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
>
> Count me in, I like the look of it. I like unusual openings.
> Its the only decent proposal so far. I run the most risk as I
> have to full frontal on Russia. It will be interesting to see
> their faces in the fall. But I will want to see frances approval
Of course you have my approval -- I suggested it. I'm glad to know that
we all find this interesting and worthwhile. I think we could make some
lightning gains from it.
Okay, given that we're all on board, I think we need to review our
information about other powers to maximize our chances of success. I can
tell what little I know: Austria and Italy seem to be friendly, Italy is
wary of Germany, Turkey is probably the odd man out in the east but
doesn't realize it.
Can you guys share anything you've learned? Tony, what's your
relationship with Austria like? Any indication where he's opening?
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
Haven't heard from you in a while (which, frankly, makes me a little
nervous). The situation in the west is resolving a little bit; everyone
is being very amicable, and we may have worked out a plan for Belgium,
but I could be facing an EG for all I know. I'll just have to play
conservatively and hope that they haven't been speaking too much behind
my back.
Given my nerves over EG, I'd like to hope that my southern front is
reasonably secure; can we at least agree to a DMZ in Pie, Lyo, Wes and
Tys? I certainly don't plan on leaving any major holes down south this
time, but if we can agree to that plan and stick to it for a couple of
seasons, I'll feel a lot better about the south and be better equiped to
deal with Tony.
How are your discussions on the east?
Erik
Message from France to Russia
>
> Okay, at this point I'm still looking at an innocuous
> opening, but I would probably be happier with an anti-G move
> from you if I get a vote. I don't really care from a board
> setup point of view, but I think Germany is much more
> dangerous of a player and has more of an alliance structure
> setup with IA, so would be more difficult to take out later.
As it stands, I'm leaning toward cementing an immediate EF, especially
if GAI is in place. Do you know the extent of their relationship? Is the
central alliance definite at this point? AI are being very cagey, so I
certainly wouldn't find that hard to believe.
I will do what I can to figure out Germany's opening. If he's cozy with
AI and thinks that he doesn't have any trouble coming from me (he's
suggested working against England, of course, but is probably just happy
leaving me to swing in the breeze), you could be in trouble. I'll keep
an eye out for a sign of attack against you.
Do you have any idea what's happening between AIT?
Erik
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
>if GAI is in place. Do you know the extent of their relationship? Is the
>central alliance definite at this point? AI are being very cagey, so I
>certainly wouldn't find that hard to believe.
I'm convinced that there has been shared GAI press. But obviously if
there's a central alliance, I wouldn't know about it!
>I will do what I can to figure out Germany's opening. If he's cozy with
>AI and thinks that he doesn't have any trouble coming from me (he's
>suggested working against England, of course, but is probably just happy
>leaving me to swing in the breeze), you could be in trouble. I'll keep
>an eye out for a sign of attack against you.
This is my biggest concern at the moment. It's the kind of gamble I've had
particularly bad luck with recently (betting when someone is coming after
me vs. when they are going to work with me). So I have a bad feeling I'm
going to see my first Mun-Sil, Ber-Pru, Vie-Gal, Smy-Arm opening.
>Do you have any idea what's happening between AIT?
Turkey tells me he's taking a wait-and-see approach, which basically means
nothing to me except that he's not ready to agree to an alliance with me.
I know that's not really much information, but for now that's the best I've
got.
--- Tzarface
Message from Germany to England and France
My picture is the same. AI friendly and Turkey the odd man out. Although I must admit I know very little about Russia.
Message from Italy to France
>
> Haven't heard from you in a while (which, frankly, makes me a little
> nervous). The situation in the west is resolving a little bit; everyone
> is being very amicable, and we may have worked out a plan for Belgium,
Which is?
> but I could be facing an EG for all I know. I'll just have to play
> conservatively and hope that they haven't been speaking too much behind
> my back.
You and Ben should be talking alot. You need to get on the same page.
> Given my nerves over EG, I'd like to hope that my southern front is
> reasonably secure; can we at least agree to a DMZ in Pie, Lyo, Wes and
> Tys?
I will agree to everything but TYS.....it borders two of my home centers
and none of yours....sorry.
I certainly don't plan on leaving any major holes down south this
> time, but if we can agree to that plan and stick to it for a couple of
> seasons, I'll feel a lot better about the south and be better equiped to
> deal with Tony.
I have no intention of attacking you.
> How are your discussions on the east?
a pain in the ass.
The austrian player makes the Turk from the 1st game possatively trusting.
Andy
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I've heard rumblings from another source that there's some sort of GAI
> agreement in the works, or at least that there's been a lot of talk of
> it. This is consistent with the picture I'm getting from Austria and
> Italy, though not Germany. Tony may be playing both sides, hoping that
> Italy runs head first into me while you help him with Russia.
Hopefully the AI will be turning east toward Turkey. Keep in mind Tony is
as nervous about Andy as Andy is about Tony, so I do not think Tony would
warn Andy that you will be coming. At least I hope so.
> I think that as interesting as this triple might be, we may not be able
> to trust Tony enought to pull it off. Are you getting the same sense?
Absolutely. I sent you a press a few days ago on this point, including a
way to turn the Western Triple to our advantage in F'01. I attached that
press at the bottom of this one.
> In any case, I suppose the first two turns will probably work, and Tony,
> even if he's working with AI, will probably play ball for a little
> while. It's in his interest to keep us off his back while he dispatches
> Russia. Still, we should plan now to lower the boom within a few
> seasons.
I think we should lower the boom in F'01. After F'01 it becomes much more
tricky.
> Let me look at the map and the proposal that I sent out and get back to
> you with specifics. Just wanted to get this message out before it got
> too late.
We have time, though as promised I am busy today.
Ben
attachment:
Erik -
> On hindsight, I should have gone over that proposal with you first, but
> what's done is done. I didn't think he'd ultimately go for the Par - Bur
> opening, and his response confirms it.
That's ok. Next time we can discuss it together but really I think this
suggestion was outstanding. See below.
> In any case, a WT, even if we let it go longer than a couple of seasons,
> still leaves us at an advantage. It's hard for Germany to build fleets and
> justify them in this situation, and that's good for us.
I suppose. My concern is that soon after S'02, I will have filled NWY,
SWE, and STP, and you will be trying to grind out dots against Andy, and
Tony will have his choice of either the southern Russian centers, or the
Austrian centers, to be followed soon enough by the other. I just think,
after this opening has gotten out of the gate, it favors Germany. So long
term I do not know how well this works for us, though if we decide to try
to make it work I will work harder at justifying it to myself. ;-) Also
you do not want to find yourself between Tony & the remnants of Andy. But
see below.
> Let me know what you think.
Two things. First of all Tony has not actually committed yet. He said he
wanted to see what I thought, & I said I was in, but he has not said he
would do it yet. Not that we should harp on it; I'm just pointing that out.
Second. Because of the drawbacks for us as we push into '02 and beyond,
let me point out an alternate set of orders for Fall '01:
England
EDI - NTH - HOL
NWG - NWY
France
GAS - BUR
PIE - TYR
MAO - SPA/sc
This would restrict you to one build but if successful would give you *two*
units against an undefended MUN in S '02, and Germany would only be getting
one build as well. We would crush him. By the end of '02 we should have
two to three builds each with open lanes to the east in front of us.
The key would be getting Andy not to freak out as you passed from PIE -
TYR. I think we could do it, diplomatically, & I would try to exert some
influence there too to help you out. Perhaps rather than involve him now,
just try to smooth things over in the fall after you've entered PIE in the
spring. I'll leave it to you - you know him better than I do.
Thoughts?
Ben
End of message.
Message from England to France and Germany
> My picture is the same. AI friendly and Turkey the odd man out.
> Although I must admit I know very little about Russia.
I can contribute that I expect a bounce in the Black Sea. For what it's
worth.
Ben
Message from Germany to England and France
I do now understand that AI are having a little disagreement on the spring moves concerning VEN.
Austria wants to move TRI - VEN no matter what. This is only good news for us as this limits Italys orders.
This also means that he cant move to PIE which fits our plan fine. But there again I couldnt see him moving there anyway. I have a DMZ agreement on TYR for what its worth in S1901M.
I also hear that Russia and Austria are fine tuning details on GAL. Maybe no bounce or agreed bounce.
If its no bounce then thats either bad news for Turkey or England. Either way it still doesnt interfere with our plan. My moves are in too with set wait.
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
I know you've said things are just fine with Andy, but since he's a mutual
problem, I really think we need to be as open with each other about our
plans and relationship with him as we can. Even if one or both of us is
working with him right off the bat in '01, Italy generally becomes a
headache for both of us at some point.
If you and Italy have agreed to team up and head in opposite directions,
do you really want to see Italy succeed wildly in his attack against me
and suddenly jump to five or six centers in the first couple of years? I
think not. It's in your interest for me to be prepared.
I can tell you this much about my plans: I'm not going to attack Andy
unless I really think he's planning to head west. I've got enough
headaches sorting out Germany and England's various demands over Belgium
(they both want it, but England will probably end up with it) while making
sure they don't get too cozy. If I have to protect against an Italian
attack, it's going to leave a door open for the two of them to work
together.
As far as Andy's press to me goes -- well, he's not the most talkative of
neighbors, as I'm sure you know. He's promised me over and over that I
don't have to worry about an attack from him, and he's agreed to a few
DMZs. If he's being honest, that leaves two options -- you and Turkey. So,
unless you're coordinating an attack on Turkey with him, I wouldn't leave
Trieste too wide open.
Please help me with whatever information you can about his opening. It's
in both our interests to have an eye on both sides of him. I'll let you
know anything I might find out about his plans, as well.
Erik
Message from France to England
> Hopefully the AI will be turning east toward Turkey. Keep in mind Tony
> is
> as nervous about Andy as Andy is about Tony, so I do not think Tony
> would
> warn Andy that you will be coming. At least I hope so.
Hopefully. Assuming Tony and Andy aren't playing their mutual concern for
one another up in an attempt to create a smokescreen, we can perhaps use
it to our advantage. I'm going to play the move to Piedmont off as a step
taken out of Tony's constant warnings to me of an impending attack from
Italy. If you should happen to chat with Italy, it might be a good idea to
mention that Tony is asking you to convince me to attack Andy, just so the
story has some weight when I tell it later.
> Absolutely. I sent you a press a few days ago on this point, including
> a
> way to turn the Western Triple to our advantage in F'01. I attached
> that
> press at the bottom of this one.
Yes, I saw and read through this after I'd sent this mail. I'll respond
down below.
> I think we should lower the boom in F'01. After F'01 it becomes much
> more
> tricky.
If, however, we see that Tony is following through and we've got some shot
at northern / southern gains, we might want to consider letting it go
longer. I know it gets trickier, but I think we should at least be willing
to be flexible. I will look at that article more today and try to find
another, later point in the strategy to go for a German attack.
In general, though, I think you're right. Given Tony's rep, we should plan
on using this as a set-up for his fall.
> Two things. First of all Tony has not actually committed yet. He said he
> wanted to see what I thought, & I said I was in, but he has not said he
> would do it yet. Not that we should harp on it; I'm just pointing that
> out.
I think he's pretty clearly in now. Has he confirmed his moves with us yet?
>
> Second. Because of the drawbacks for us as we push into '02 and beyond,
> let me point out an alternate set of orders for Fall '01:
> England
> EDI - NTH - HOL
> NWG - NWY
> France
> GAS - BUR
> PIE - TYR
> MAO - SPA/sc
This sounds tentatively good, but let me look at the map before I commit
to it. In any case, our orders for '01 are set.
Once you get two builds, what are you going to do with them? A Lon and F
Edi? And where do we proceed once we've stabbed? I'll take a stab at
Munich while you press on for Kiel and Denmark; I can also build A Par and
head for an easy grab of Bel in Fall of 02. With Nth - Hel, Hol - Kiel and
Lon - Nth, you should be in a position to grab one of Kiel or Denmark in
02. This is all planning a little far in advance, but it's good to have an
idea of where we're heading.
We need to make sure that Russia has two units in or around Warsaw after
S01 to prevent Germany from taking it, but I think I can do that without
tipping our hand too much -- I've got a decent rapport with Russia, and I
can just warn him to watch for a German assault, which I think he's
concerned about anyway.
> The key would be getting Andy not to freak out as you passed from PIE -
> TYR. I think we could do it, diplomatically, & I would try to exert some
> influence there too to help you out. Perhaps rather than involve him
> now,
> just try to smooth things over in the fall after you've entered PIE in
> the
> spring. I'll leave it to you - you know him better than I do.
>
As I said before, I think Andy and I have enough of a history that,
combined with accusations of German meddling, I can probably explain it
away and get access to Tyr. The only thing that could upset this plan, as
I said, is if Andy and Tony are, in fact, in cahoots and using the "fear
of each other" factor purely deceptively. I'm not really concerned about
that, though. I think the mutual wariness is real.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
FYI, I'm writing a press to Germany in which I talk about how England is
always the better-off party in the Western Triple, and about he and I are
going to need to keep an eye on you starting in '02. I want him to think
there's a little animosity brewing between us so that there's less
potential suspicion that he's being set up for a fall.
Just wanted you to be aware of this in case it gets back to you through
him or another source.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
(note that England has been excluded from this press)
Tony:
> Austria wants to move TRI - VEN no matter what. This is only good news
> for us as this limits Italys orders.
How do you know this? Austria's been exceptionally vague in his messages
to me, so I'm surprised he would be so blunt with you. You must have had
better luck cultivating a relationship with him. In any case, it's good to
know. Andy has been adamant in his claims that he's not interested in
attacking me, so knowing that there's going to be some Austrian pressure
definitely helps.
> I also hear that Russia and Austria are fine tuning details on GAL.
> Maybe no bounce or agreed bounce.
As far as I know, Russia's playing a conservative opening, but doesn't
suspect an attack from you. I didn't know about the bounce. You may not
take Warsaw in '01, but the bounce in Sweden and the fall '01 move to
Livonia and Prussia should guarantee you the center in '02.
> If its no bounce then thats either bad news for Turkey or England.
> Either way it still doesnt interfere with our plan. My moves are in too
> with set wait.
>
Excellent, mine too. I'll send out a confirmation e-mail of what our moves
should be to both you and England in a second, but I wanted to chat with
you first about where to head after '02. England is typically the prime
beneficiary of a Western Triple, given his ability to stab while you're
fighting Russia and I'm off in the Mediterranean. I'm hoping this
variation will lessen that advantage to some degree. We need to be
prepared to switch direction after '02 and take him on. Any idea how you
can justify a fleet build in Kiel when we start reaping the benefits from
the triple attack? I'm not sure that a lone fleet in Brest will be enough
to handle an England with a fleet in London and Nth and another fleet up
north somewhere.
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Erik, well I have been thinking about it too. His opening compared to mine
and yours is fairly standard.
You on the otherhand move on Italy and I move on Russia. You also have to
push your fleet through to the med. This does indeed leave you with a single
fleet in BRE.
This does leave him free to join forces with IR after the spring move
leaving us in a bad light by saying "hey GF obviously have something going,
let the 3 of us gang up on them".
As you pointed out he will be very strong with all his fleets amd a major
threat to you. Especially if Italy joins him and builds fleet too. I would
be to busy fighting off Russia.
Do you think England would do all that? the only problem we have is that our
moves are attacking moves on our neighbours. His arent and he can change
sides for the fall, we cant as we have committed ourselves.
Do you want to move on him in the spring? Maybe we should discuss this
further. Let me know.
Message from France to England and Germany
So let me just confirm the moves for S01:
England:
F Edi - Nwg
F Lon - Nth
A Lvp - Yor (or are you heading to Edi instead?)
France:
F Bre - Mao
A Par - Gas
A Mar - Pie
Germany:
F Kiel - Den
A Ber - Pru
A Mun - Sil
I should also note that I've been telling other powers that the extent of
our negotiations has been a deal surrounding the disposition of Belgium:
if anyone asks, we should all stick to the story that we've agreed to let
England take Belgium with a fleet. Details beyond that are up to each of
you. I'm also telling people that I've had friendly and lengthy but
ultimately non-commital discussions with both of you.
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
First, let me thank you for giving me your impression of RT.
Even if it didn't give me much to go on, I still appreciated it.
Now for your questions:
> I know you've said things are just fine with Andy, but since he's a mutual
> problem, I really think we need to be as open with each other about our
> plans and relationship with him as we can. Even if one or both of us is
> working with him right off the bat in '01, Italy generally becomes a
> headache for both of us at some point.
Since I told you so, things have become more tense between
Andy and I. It still look allright, but he seem frustated that I
wasn't ready to trust him as much as he wanted. Will see what
happen, but we are on the same page regarding Italy.
> If you and Italy have agreed to team up and head in opposite directions,
> do you really want to see Italy succeed wildly in his attack against me
> and suddenly jump to five or six centers in the first couple of years? I
> think not. It's in your interest for me to be prepared.
If I hear anything, I will be sure to let you know; but I doubt
he would let me in on a plan to invade France at the moment.
> I can tell you this much about my plans: I'm not going to attack Andy
> unless I really think he's planning to head west. I've got enough
> headaches sorting out Germany and England's various demands over Belgium
> (they both want it, but England will probably end up with it) while making
> sure they don't get too cozy. If I have to protect against an Italian
> attack, it's going to leave a door open for the two of them to work
> together.
That's perfectly normal. I don't think anyone expect France to
go after Italy right off the bat.
> As far as Andy's press to me goes -- well, he's not the most talkative of
> neighbors, as I'm sure you know. He's promised me over and over that I
> don't have to worry about an attack from him, and he's agreed to a few
> DMZs. If he's being honest, that leaves two options -- you and Turkey. So,
> unless you're coordinating an attack on Turkey with him, I wouldn't leave
> Trieste too wide open.
Don't worry, I'm not taking any chances and that's probably
why he's disappointed.
> Please help me with whatever information you can about his opening. It's
> in both our interests to have an eye on both sides of him. I'll let you
> know anything I might find out about his plans, as well.
My feeling is that he isn't opening with an attack on France,
but please don't bet the farm on what I think Andy will do. I
don't want to be responsible for your faring badly.
In fact, I would suggest keeping your options open. In your
place, I would open with Bre-Mao, Mar-Bur & Par-Pic or
Gas. With an organize bounce in Bur, you keep an army in
Mar to take Spain or react to surprises coming from Andy.
Best regards,
Philippe
Message from France to Germany
>
> Do you think England would do all that? the only problem we have is that
> our
> moves are attacking moves on our neighbours. His arent and he can change
> sides for the fall, we cant as we have committed ourselves.
Interesting dimension -- I was thinking tactically that he had an
advantage, but he's also got a bit of a diplomatic advantage, too.
I suppose much of this hinges on what Turkey and Austria are planning. If
Austria is going after Italy in the first year, then Italy's in a world of
trouble. Even if he and England start working together, he may not be able
to field enough of an offense to be a problem for me.
I really doubt Turkey is attacking Russia early, but once he sees you and
England headed in for the kill, he might be easily convinced to join in
the fray. In fact, I suspect that's exactly the sort of wait-and-see plan
that he's using.
So, our ability to deal with England long-term depends on our ability to
pull Austria and Turkey into conflict with each of our targets. Tell you
what: we move as we're planning right now. If it's clear that AI are
allied and that T isn't going to hit Russia, then we can still back out:
neither of us is overcommited, Russia won't be too miffed because you
won't have bounced him in Sweden yet, and while Italy will still be a
problem for me, I can get the two builds from Por and Spa and be able to
field a fleet in Brest while holding off Italy if diplomacy fails.
If Italy and Russia are being attacked from multiple sides, though, then I
think this triple has a real benefit for all of us, even if England has
some minor advantage in the end. In that event, we continue on
through '02, pick up our additional builds, finish off Russia, and
encourage Turkey and what's left of Italy to squeeze out Austria while we
build fleets, double back and take on England. S03 a long way away, of
course, but at least this gives us a roadmap. If things really change, we
adjust and deal with them.
For now, though, we really need to pile on the press and get Austria and
Turkey working towards Italy and Russia. Agreed?
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
> Which is?
The plan, at least as far as I know, is for England to occupy Belgium with
a fleet. Tony may be planning to block this, but I'm not.
>
> You and Ben should be talking alot. You need to get on the same page.
>
I am doing what I can. Ben is being friendly and talkative but non-
commital. I think he wants to see if I'll let him into Belgium first. I
wish he'd recognize the danger in Tony's abilities a little more readily.
I think those early German broadcasts rubbed Ben the wrong way, but who
knows? They could already be working together. My hope is to open
conservatively, not committing anywhere too boldly, and the continue to
develop my relationship with Ben and get him moving with me against
Germany.
If you could continue to encourage Ben to work with me, I'd really
appreciate it.
> I will agree to everything but TYS.....it borders two of my home centers
> and none of yours....sorry.
Okay, that's reasonable enough. I had to ask, though.
> The austrian player makes the Turk from the 1st game possatively
> trusting.
>
Yikes. Sorry to hear that. Wish I could offer you some insight into his
plans, but he's been incredibly vague. I heard from another source that
he's planning to move Trieste - Venice, but I have no idea how reliable
that information is, and given that I'm probably telling it to you fourth-
hand, I wouldn't put a lot of trust in it. Thought I'd pass it along just
in case, though.
Erik
Message from France to France
Peanut gallery:
What you're seeing in my press to E is pretty much the straight story. Ben
may be setting me up for a fall, but after surveying the lay of the land,
he seems like he's being the most honest with me and is the most committed
to working with me. I don't see much in the way of signs of duplicity
involving England, so I'm going to assume we're working as partners and
run with it. If he is tricking me, he's doing a good job of it.
I am pretty certain that GAI have been having some discussions, and that
Germany had no long-term (2+ years) interest in working with Ben or I. His
lack of private press to me during the triple suggestions, contrasted
against the volume of private press from Ben, suggests this, though I
suppose he could be talking with Ben on the side and I'm the real one in
danger. Nevertheless, I suspect that Tony is honestly going to open hard
against Russia, possibly with Austria's help, and wants to deal with the
two of us later.
The big question for me is what Tony and Andy are going to each other: is
Tony going to let Andy know that I'm attacking him, in hopes of slowing me
down, or is he going to let me attack Andy without warning in hopes of
slowing Andy down? It's hard to figure out, and I probably never will. In
any case, if Ben and I go to work against Germany, it may be a moot point.
Enough yammering. I have to respond to Germany's latest message.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Tzarface:
>
> I'm convinced that there has been shared GAI press. But obviously if
> there's a central alliance, I wouldn't know about it!
Good point.
> So I have a bad feeling I'm
> going to see my first Mun-Sil, Ber-Pru, Vie-Gal, Smy-Arm opening.
I wish I could say otherwise, but I have to tell you that signs are
pointing to a German attack against you early. Even if that's not correct
and you're not looking to risk get into a fight with him in the first
turn, I'd keep an army around your front with him just in case.
As I said, I'm leaning toward an EF attack against Germany, simply because
the threat of a central alliance and the supposed quality of Tony's play
suggests that course of action. I hope to have everything cemented by the
end of S01; once the alliance is set in place over here, I'll go over the
details with you and we can decide the best way to work against EG down
the road. If Germany opens strong against you, England and I can probably
move in quickly on him from Holland / Denmark / Munich.
While you'll need to keep Warsaw intact, I'm hoping England's eventual
attack on Germany will give you a chance to move a little bit of force up
north to help push England back and give you a shot at Scandanavia. Too
early for those specifics, I suppose, but I can't help thinking ahead.
>
> >Do you have any idea what's happening between AIT?
>
> Turkey tells me he's taking a wait-and-see approach, which basically
> means
> nothing to me except that he's not ready to agree to an alliance with
> me.
>
> I know that's not really much information, but for now that's the best
> I've
> got.
Pretty much jives with what he's told me, which is "hey, thanks for
writing, but let's see what happens in '01." Not the best approach for a
Turkish player, if you ask me ... Are you two bouncing in Bla?
So what's the story with Tzarface? Role-playing that you decided to
abandon, or just your broadcast persona?
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
The word on the street is that you're taking a wait-and-see approach to
the first turn. While I can understand this, I think you out to consider
being a little more proactive with your neighbors. In the past couple of
days, I've heard various accounts of GI cooperation, AI cooperation, IR
cooperation, and even talk of a central alliance. The only thing I know
for sure is that there's been a lot of press between Germany, Austria and
Italy.
Frankly, I don't want to see you eliminated early by some combination of
AIRT. If Austria and Italy are working together, Italy's main target is
going to be me as soon as you're gone. You're the only other power on the
board other than me who can keep Italy from becoming a major Mediterranean
power, and I'd hate to have to take him on without any chance of support
from you. It's in my interest to see you survive -- we can be of great use
to each other later on.
Maybe I'm completely wrong here and you've been actively negotiating all
sorts of deals, but if I'm not, please think about what I've said and get
on the horn with your neighbors. I've sent plenty of press to all of them,
so if there's a particular angle your pushing for, I can certainly try to
help you out. Just let me know.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
>
> If I hear anything, I will be sure to let you know; but I doubt
> he would let me in on a plan to invade France at the moment.
>
Of course not. But you never know -- people slip up.
>
> In fact, I would suggest keeping your options open. In your
> place, I would open with Bre-Mao, Mar-Bur & Par-Pic or
> Gas. With an organize bounce in Bur, you keep an army in
> Mar to take Spain or react to surprises coming from Andy.
That's pretty close to my actual plans. I'm not too worried, even if he
does attack.
Do you *want* me to attack Andy? If you're attacking, too, I'm willing to
consider it. I can probably do something to keep EG off my back for a
little while, and we're both interested in a quick attack on Italy, we
might as well not beat around the bush. I'm certainly open to it if you're
interested, but given how little I know of your dealings with RT right
now, I hadn't really been planning for it.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> Do you *want* me to attack Andy? If you're attacking, too, I'm willing to
> consider it. I can probably do something to keep EG off my back for a
> little while, and we're both interested in a quick attack on Italy, we
> might as well not beat around the bush. I'm certainly open to it if you're
> interested, but given how little I know of your dealings with RT right
> now, I hadn't really been planning for it.
Might have been interesting, but without knowing for sure
what RT is up to, it's too risky for my taste. Can't start
attacking my potential saviour can I ;-)
Philippe
Message from England to France
> We need to make sure that Russia has two units in or around Warsaw after
> S01 to prevent Germany from taking it, but I think I can do that without
> tipping our hand too much -- I've got a decent rapport with Russia, and I
> can just warn him to watch for a German assault, which I think he's
> concerned about anyway.
***Don't do this if you haven't****
I've already pushed that envelope as far as I can & i don't want to alert
the east to an '01 WT. I hope it's not too late.
Will write more soon.
Ben
Message from France to Austria
>
> Might have been interesting, but without knowing for sure
> what RT is up to, it's too risky for my taste. Can't start
> attacking my potential saviour can I ;-)
>
Okay. Let me know if you change your mind. I'll have to secure the Western
Med area at some point in the future, and it makes sense to do so when
you're coming at him from the other side. And, of course, if he comes
after you first, I will try, if possible, to open a second front and take
some pressure off you. I'd like to think you might be willing to do the
same for me.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> after you first, I will try, if possible, to open a second front and take
> some pressure off you. I'd like to think you might be willing to do the
> same for me.
Of course.
Philippe
Message from France to England
>
> I've already pushed that envelope as far as I can & i don't want to
> alert
> the east to an '01 WT. I hope it's not too late.
>
I haven't said anything specific. Russia's worried about a central
alliance. I commented that such an alliance seemed possible, and
recommended that he keep a unit in or around Warsaw to defend against it.
I didn't realize you were doing the same thing. I won't push the issue.
I am beginning to think that Tony's actually managed to become part of a
GAI *and* a Western Triple. They're not necessarily incompatible, and they
put him in an excellent position. As such, I think the only people who
might be concerned about a Western triple are Russia and Turkey. Turkey's
being too passive, as far as I can tell, for an RT alliance to pop up. I'm
hoping that GAI is the focus of Russia's concern.
Should one of us switch gears and downplay the German threat? May not be
such a good idea. Let's just drop it and hope for the best. I think
Russia's already planning conservative play.
Erik
Message from Germany to England and France
Thats what it says on the site, and the site is easy to follow. So yes I can
cofirm them. Set wait has also been done.
Message from Russia to France
>I wish I could say otherwise, but I have to tell you that signs are
>pointing to a German attack against you early. Even if that's not correct
>and you're not looking to risk get into a fight with him in the first
>turn, I'd keep an army around your front with him just in case.
Well, I just wrote a long comment to the list (i.e., press to self)
that talked about what I see as the pros and cons of risking an early
GAT vs. R attack. Results in this game will probably affect the way I
approach games in the future!
>While you'll need to keep Warsaw intact, I'm hoping England's eventual
>attack on Germany will give you a chance to move a little bit of force up
>north to help push England back and give you a shot at Scandanavia. Too
>early for those specifics, I suppose, but I can't help thinking ahead.
I don't mind this kind of hypothetical discussion at all, though I
agree that specifics are fluid at this point.
>Pretty much jives with what he's told me, which is "hey, thanks for
>writing, but let's see what happens in '01." Not the best approach for a
>Turkish player, if you ask me ... Are you two bouncing in Bla?
If not, I'll be very surprised. :)
>So what's the story with Tzarface? Role-playing that you decided to
>abandon, or just your broadcast persona?
I wanted to respond to the grey broadcast, and I figured role-playing
the angry response was more effective than trying to be defensive or
leaving it unanswered. So it's really just the broadcast persona.
I leave my messages signed as "Tzarface" because I like to have a
different name in different games. It just helps me to remember the
game and game history when I'm composing a message. Also, I usually
edit an old message rather than composing from scratch to avoid
retyping the whole "signon...." stuff, so it keeps me from grabbing
the wrong template and sending press to someone in a different game.
--- Eric/Tzarface
Message from England to France and Germany
> So let me just confirm the moves for S01:
>
> England:
> F Edi - Nwg
> F Lon - Nth
> A Lvp - Yor (or are you heading to Edi instead?)
I'd set EDI, but YOR makes more sense, so I'll switch it.
>
> France:
> F Bre - Mao
> A Par - Gas
> A Mar - Pie
>
> Germany:
> F Kiel - Den
> A Ber - Pru
> A Mun - Sil
>
> I should also note that I've been telling other powers that the extent of
> our negotiations has been a deal surrounding the disposition of Belgium:
> if anyone asks, we should all stick to the story that we've agreed to let
> England take Belgium with a fleet. Details beyond that are up to each of
> you. I'm also telling people that I've had friendly and lengthy but
> ultimately non-commital discussions with both of you.
Ok, my orders are in. I am setting no wait.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I haven't said anything specific. Russia's worried about a central
> alliance. I commented that such an alliance seemed possible, and
> recommended that he keep a unit in or around Warsaw to defend against it.
> I didn't realize you were doing the same thing. I won't push the issue.
Ok. It sounds like we're on cruise control for the spring, then.
> I am beginning to think that Tony's actually managed to become part of a
> GAI *and* a Western Triple. They're not necessarily incompatible, and they
> put him in an excellent position. As such, I think the only people who
> might be concerned about a Western triple are Russia and Turkey. Turkey's
> being too passive, as far as I can tell, for an RT alliance to pop up. I'm
> hoping that GAI is the focus of Russia's concern.
This is what I think. Austria is in Germany's hip pocket. I infer this
from a couple of things, not the least of which is Germany's comment that
Austria is insisting on TRI - VEN. I am guessing if Tony did not suggest
that himself he certainly did nothing to discourage it. No doubt Tony and
Andy each figure that with the other gone, the rest of us are chopped
liver. Other factors too but that's a big one.
If Austria is in Germany's hip pocket then you can bet that there will be
an Austrian attack against Russia: move to GAL, etc.
> Should one of us switch gears and downplay the German threat? May not be
> such a good idea. Let's just drop it and hope for the best. I think
> Russia's already planning conservative play.
I've pretty much dropped everything & am waiting for the moves to process.
Italy will not want a two front war. My guess is, with Austria pissing him
off, he will want to head east just to stay in position to deal with
Austria, even if he's starting after Turkey. Who knows. His spring is
constrained by TRI - VEN.
Andy is not really an alliance player. I think a GAI is pretty much the
same as a GA, with Andy using it to his profit for as long as it serves him.
Finally, I want to point out that the DMZ TYR and TRI - VEN are godsends
for our effort to sneak MAR around to TYR.
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
Gentlemen,
I cannot express strongly enough the need for the 2 of you to work
together against Germany. He is extremely strong, and has at least on
other power in his pocket.
I have Russia good with the idea that Germany must be hemmed also,
so you should be in decent shape there.
Get a plan together and then take him down.
Andy
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
Who does Tony have "in his pocket?" And if Tony's a major threat, are you
planning to move to Tyrolia, or are you counting on Russia, England and I
to deal with him so you can carry on without worrying about him?
Just curious why you're so obsessed with our working together against him.
Erik
Message from France to France
I have a few issues I'm mulling over right now.
1.) England is absolutely in the best position with the opening as it's
structured now. Given that the triple will fall apart after a season (or
two, at best), he's going to end up with two builds and me potentially at
the mercy of Italy. I don't like this, not one bit. Should I change course
completely and try to work the double-cross with Germany against England?
2.) The problem with this double-cross is the assumption on my part that
Germany's got friends in Austria and/or Italy. Maybe this isn't actually a
problem, but it seems like Tony will, at that point, be essentially
without many enemies. He could make gains in England and in Russia and
become quite formidable. Of course, the FG is usually better than EF for
France in the long run.
So what do I do? Tell Russia about the "triple" opening to ensure that
he'll leave Warsaw occupied and Livonia unoccupied? Ask Andy to bounce
with me in Piedmont so I can prevent myself from being overextended if I
decide to come after England instead of Germany?
Erik
Message from Italy to England and France
> Who does Tony have "in his pocket?" And if Tony's a major threat, are you
> planning to move to Tyrolia, or are you counting on Russia, England and I
> to deal with him so you can carry on without worrying about him?
Erik....you ask some lovely questions....
the person in his pocket is Austria. And no I dont expect the 3 of you to
carry the load, but I have this issue with Austria. Germany has already
said that if anyone moves to Tyrolia he will attack them.
> Just curious why you're so obsessed with our working together against him.
Because he is the best player at the board, and if not kept in check he
will have the 2 of you fighting in about 20 seconds, he already has at
least one guy in his pocket and I have no clue if Turkey is as well.
And you 2 have much better access to him.....If the Austrian and the
Turk attack me out of the gate, I want the Russian on my side.
He needs to go away, and since I am not in direct contact with him, I cant
do it.
Andy
Message from France to Germany
Okay, looks like everything's set. Looking at the plan, I think we're in
good shape. We can switch courses very quickly, either in F01 or S02.
England's attack against Russia can do nothing but help you spread out the
Russian defense, and F MAO can go to Iri as easily as Wes. When I double
back, England will be forced to build and move to cover me, and in the
process, will leave a hole open for your build of F Kiel.
And hey -- if the first season goes well and other players move
accordingly, we may have reason to continue with the triple until S02.
The biggest potential problems I see are:
1.) A friendly R/T or R/A, which would let Russia focus on you and
potentially partner with England against us. If T or A or both are hostile
or neutral, Russia will be more than willing to let you pull back and
attack England while he deals with the south.
2.) An AI alliance. I'd heard plenty of initial reports of AI getting
along swimmingly, and Austria has been vague when I've probed him about
attacking Italy. Are you at all worried about this, even with your belief
that A Trieste is headed for Venice and the DMZ in Tyrolia?
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Well if AI are having problems negotiating then maybe we should help them
along ;-)
As you pointed out the Italian is a little concerned about me anyway.
The turk has been very quiet. Maybe you can inquire as to how the
relationship AT is going.
I too will poke around a little and get back to you
Message from Germany to England and France
I have told Austria that France and I are to bounce in BUR, he wanted to
know if my unit was remaining in MUN.
So if he decides somehow to verify it with either of you in a roundabout way
then you can confirm it.
Message from Germany to France
Yes quite secure. The east seems to be tied down with paranoia. They are all
insisting om bounces. The only risk I run
is TYR but seen as VEN is ment to bounce then VEN wont move to TYR or PIE. I
dont see Italy bouncing ROM in VEN just to get to TYR or PIE.
Message from Germany to England and France
I am trying to find out the relationship between austria and Russia and to
some extent Turkey and Italy.
I have told the austrian that I am trying to get the russian go north, just
to see if this filters back somehow. If russia approaches england then we
know where austria stands.
Message from France to England and Italy
>
> Erik....you ask some lovely questions....
>
And you provide some lovely answers. I have to say, there's certainly been
some evidence of a GA relationship, but not to the extent that you've
stated. You must have a line on some info that I don't have.
> the person in his pocket is Austria. And no I dont expect the 3 of you
> to
> carry the load, but I have this issue with Austria.
What is the issue? Are you expecting an attack? Are you being forced to
bounce? If it's a bounce, what's the big deal?
>
> And you 2 have much better access to him.....If the Austrian and the
> Turk attack me out of the gate, I want the Russian on my side.
>
I wish I could give you more info on the Turk, but he hasn't exactly been
talkative, even to somebody as far from his sphere of influence as me. I
think England's had the same experience.
> He needs to go away, and since I am not in direct contact with him, I
> cant
> do it.
Understood. Thanks for providing the info you've provided so far. I'm sure
England and I will discuss in more detail. We're both aware of Tony's
strength as a player.
Erik
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
Russia indeed told me he was being "pressured" to open north.
Anyway I've now set nowait. Let's get it on!
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
> And you provide some lovely answers. I have to say, there's certainly been
> some evidence of a GA relationship, but not to the extent that you've
> stated. You must have a line on some info that I don't have.
Well....they want me to be thier ally, but dont want to give me any
latitude to do anything.
> > the person in his pocket is Austria. And no I dont expect the 3 of you
> > to
> > carry the load, but I have this issue with Austria.
>
> What is the issue? Are you expecting an attack? Are you being forced to
> bounce? If it's a bounce, what's the big deal?
For defensive reasons Austria is attacking Venice...just in case I thought
about moving on him, his ally.
He claims to trust me completely, but insists on moving Tri - Ven in S01'
> Understood. Thanks for providing the info you've provided so far. I'm sure
> England and I will discuss in more detail. We're both aware of Tony's
> strength as a player.
>
No problem. I will help whereever I can.
Message from France to England
Did that "northern push" comment truly make its way back to you through
Russia? If so, what do you make of it? Do you think Tony instructed
Austria to leak the info to Russia?
I'm not entirely convinced that Austria is as entirely in Germany's employ
as Andy thinks. I am fairly certain, however, that Austria is making
Andy's life difficult, and that the move to Pie will succeed and then be
able to move to Tyr, as you pointed out. This looks good.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
Another quick question for you, since we seem to have this channel open.
Do you have any idea which way Russia is headed? He's been awfully
non-commital with me, which suggests that he's worried about me tipping
of Germany or England. My ability to effectively defend against / work
with Germany and England depends heavily on Russia's plans, and it
frustrates me that he's not more forthcoming. If you have *any* idea
what his plans might be, I'd appreciate the heads up.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Andy's been sending a lot of dire warnings to England and I about Tony
-- lots of "you've got to work together, he'll chop you to pieces, run
for the hills," etc. etc. Given Andy's penchant for sending press that
only relates to his immediate future (at least, as far as I've noticed),
I'm trying to sort out the angle on this one.
My suspicion is that Germany's managed to exert a lot of influence over
the paranoid Austrian and dash a lot of Italian plans, and a frustrated
Andy is taking his revenge. Am I missing something about Tony? He hasn't
particularly impressed me so far, but you also noted that you'd like to
see him go down sooner rather than later.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Did that "northern push" comment truly make its way back to you through
> Russia? If so, what do you make of it? Do you think Tony instructed
> Austria to leak the info to Russia?
Heh. What actually happened was, Russia told me *Germany* was pushing to
get him to open North. Who knows what to believe, anyway. Russia's been
alittle annoying too, lately.
> I'm not entirely convinced that Austria is as entirely in Germany's employ
> as Andy thinks. I am fairly certain, however, that Austria is making
> Andy's life difficult, and that the move to Pie will succeed and then be
> able to move to Tyr, as you pointed out. This looks good.
I'm not worried about Italy, tactically. I think a move to PIE is
seriously unlikely. I'm inclined to believe the TRI - VEN thing, it's
making me laugh, I also think Austria is feeling the influence of Germany.
That said, it looks like Germany may be keeping his anti-Russian opening a
*secret* from Austria, which I hadn't really expected, which is fine too.
I am very pleased overall with the way our diplomacy has gone this spring.
Ben
Message from England to France and Italy
Gentlemen -
For what it's worth I think Austria may be firmly under German control.
It would certainly explain his insistence on the A/I alliance beginning
with the - ahem - novelty TRI - VEN. Kind of reminds me of C1, actually,
Andy.
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
>
> Gentlemen -
> For what it's worth I think Austria may be firmly under German control.
>
> It would certainly explain his insistence on the A/I alliance beginning
> with the - ahem - novelty TRI - VEN. Kind of reminds me of C1, actually,
> Andy.
>
Ben, were you in C1
Message from England to France and Italy
> > It would certainly explain his insistence on the A/I alliance beginning
> > with the - ahem - novelty TRI - VEN. Kind of reminds me of C1,
actually,
> > Andy.
> >
> Ben, were you in C1
I was observing. You played an outstanding game.
Message from Italy to England and France
> > > It would certainly explain his insistence on the A/I alliance beginning
> > > with the - ahem - novelty TRI - VEN. Kind of reminds me of C1,
> actually,
> > > Andy.
> > >
> > Ben, were you in C1
>
> I was observing. You played an outstanding game.
>
Thank you..
Message from Russia to France
>My suspicion is that Germany's managed to exert a lot of influence over
>the paranoid Austrian and dash a lot of Italian plans, and a frustrated
>Andy is taking his revenge. Am I missing something about Tony? He hasn't
>particularly impressed me so far, but you also noted that you'd like to
>see him go down sooner rather than later.
That's exactly what I was getting at when I said that I get different
senses about GAI cooperation. I believe that Austria is afraid of Italy,
but Germany's done a lot to keep Italy from being able to attack Austria,
and Andy's press has gotten more "sensitive" to Austria over time.
So I could believe two things: (1) That Andy wants revenge on Germany or
(2) that Andy wants Germany sufficiently engaged that he can break the
central triple. Both come from the same point of view. I tend to think it's
the latter, and that if Germany does well (means, allies with any of us in
the north) that Andy will settle for a triple he'd rather not be a part of.
This is of course speculation on my part, but it fits with what I've been
hearing from each of GAI.
--- Tzarface
Message from Turkey to France
Interesting word on the street, but don't worry, I've been doing some
talking of my own. Just keep them busy between themselves, and I'll keep
on the horn over here.
Thanks for keeping me in the loop.
jason
Message from France to England
> Heh. What actually happened was, Russia told me *Germany*
> was pushing to get him to open North. Who knows what to
> believe, anyway. Russia's been alittle annoying too, lately.
>
Yes. I'm sure Germany would like to see your path as hampered as much as
he'd like to see Italy hamper mine. Good thing Austria is throwing a
wrench into that plan.
I think Russia is very worried about a hostile GAI. He will certainly be
frightened by the moves this season, but if we play it right, we can
hopefully calm him down, get him working against Germany, and still keep
Turkey from getting too friendly with him.
> I'm not worried about Italy, tactically. I think a move to
> PIE is seriously unlikely. I'm inclined to believe the TRI -
> VEN thing, it's making me laugh, I also think Austria is
> feeling the influence of Germany. That said, it looks like
> Germany may be keeping his anti-Russian opening a
> *secret* from Austria, which I hadn't really expected, which
> is fine too.
I think Germany's keeping it secret while doing everything possible to
ensure that Austria unwittingly cooperates. I'll bet we see two separate
Austrian bounces, thereby wasting the time of two of Germany's neighbors
-- Austria and Russia -- and keeping Italy from doing much of an
opening. Clever.
> I am very pleased overall with the way our diplomacy has gone
> this spring.
>
As am I. I'm hoping that Germany feels very confident in his ability to
play both sides of the board. We've got to make sure those feelings of
confidence continue.
More tomorrow. Let me know if you hear anything unexpected.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
>
> So I could believe two things: (1) That Andy wants revenge on
> Germany or
> (2) that Andy wants Germany sufficiently engaged that he can
> break the central triple. Both come from the same point of
> view. I tend to think it's the latter, and that if Germany
> does well (means, allies with any of us in the north) that
> Andy will settle for a triple he'd rather not be a part of.
>
Interesting take on the situation, and probably pretty accurate. So, as
long as Germany's isolated, the central triple will fail to form.
Have you tried to pry Austria out of Germany's tricky little grasp? I
don't think he's commited to an AG alliance, just manipulated. I get the
impression that the Germans are essentially stoking his paranoia.
What kind of things has Germany been saying to you? He sends the
occasional anti-English press to me, but I get the feeling that he's not
terribly concerned with me, maybe sees me as a situation to deal with
later.
Erik
Message from Russia to France
Honestly, I haven't been giving Austria enough of my attention. Germany's
manipulations distracted me. (Not a good excuse, but the truth
nonetheless). I've just started stepping up my press to Austria to try to
rectify this situation.
As far as Germany, he's been telling me not to attack Austria, and has
tried to get me to promise not to publicly (to A and I). Not terribly
surprising that he wants to help Austria, but he's really working hard to
make Austria feel comfortable. He's been very active in negotiating down
here, so if he's not active up there, it probably means he's distracted.
--- Tzarface
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
Sorry, but I can't provide what I don't have :-(
You will have to trust your instinct on that one.
Philippe
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
Since Austria seems to have a relationship with Russia, as your e-mail
bait demonstrated, are you worried about the effectiveness of your initial
attack? Even if they're not committed to mutual defense, it's obviously
better for you (and the triple) if Austria's willing to at least look the
other way while you attack Russia.
Austria's been hesitant to get involved in any kind of joint attack
against Italy; I guess he and and Russia must be planning an attack on
Turkey. Given Turkey's non-communication, this isn't particularly
surprising. Still, I wish Austria could be more involved in helping out
our immediate attacks. If you've got any sort of relationship with him,
maybe you can get him out of Russia's camp and into ours.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
>
> Honestly, I haven't been giving Austria enough of my attention.
> Germany's
> manipulations distracted me. (Not a good excuse, but the truth
> nonetheless). I've just started stepping up my press to Austria to try
> to
> rectify this situation.
In my experience, the Austrian's been a bit of a pain to work with. He has
certainly been less engaging that I would expect an Austrian player to be
of France. I'm hoping it's just first-turn paranoia. I have been driving
home the "sheesh, sure is rough to be stuck between Andy and Tony" point
to him in hopes that he'll start to re-think any trust that he's built for
those two. If GAI hasn't coallesced by now, we don't ever want it to.
> As far as Germany, he's been telling me not to attack Austria, and has
> tried to get me to promise not to publicly (to A and I). Not terribly
> surprising that he wants to help Austria, but he's really working hard
> to
> make Austria feel comfortable. He's been very active in negotiating down
> here, so if he's not active up there, it probably means he's distracted.
Good to hear. The less Germany worries about England and I, the better. I
know you've got a bounce planned with Turkey; do you have one planned with
Austria, too (sorry if you've told me before -- don't have my saved
messages here)? I thought I'd heard that bandied about earlier, but I'm
not sure if it was just a proposal or conjecture or rumor.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
>
> Sorry, but I can't provide what I don't have :-(
> You will have to trust your instinct on that one.
>
Good point. I guess at this point, there's just no telling what people are
up to, is there? Better to play a conservative, defensive approach for the
first turn and see where things end up in the fall. Also, when we're stuck
between Tony and Andy, and both of us are, we can pretty much assume that
one of them's got a trick up his sleeve, right?
Good luck with your opening moves. I'll let you know if I hear anything
else pertinent to your position.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> Good point. I guess at this point, there's just no telling what people are
> up to, is there? Better to play a conservative, defensive approach for the
> first turn and see where things end up in the fall. Also, when we're stuck
> between Tony and Andy, and both of us are, we can pretty much assume that
> one of them's got a trick up his sleeve, right?
Actually, let's be positive and assume we have them surrounded instead ;-)
> Good luck with your opening moves. I'll let you know if I hear anything
> else pertinent to your position.
Thanks,
Philippe
Message from Germany to France
Will look into it. I was initially involed long ago in talking with AI but
they couldnt sort out the VEN bounce.
I havent spoken to him since. Will see whats happening.
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
I'm risking a DMZ in Gal rather than a bounce. I'm not sure it's the
right way to go, but that's the current plan.
How about Bur? Do you have a bounce planned there? I should have
asked this earlier, because if you do it'd be an easier call to leave
Gal DMZed.
--- Tzarface
Message from France to Russia
> How about Bur? Do you have a bounce planned there? I should have
> asked this earlier, because if you do it'd be an easier call to leave
> Gal DMZed.
It's been discussed. Germany's into it and I think assumes it's a go, but
I'd rather use the unit for actual movement. Austria's bouncing Italy, so
it stands to reason that he'd be fine with DMZ, too. In any case, if I
were you, I might cover with Mos - Ukr just to be safe. If Austria's
bouncing with Italy, it stands to reason that he's either headed for you
or for Turkey, and you might want to be prepared for either alternative.
Just my $.02, though.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
Russia asked me point blank if Germany and I were bouncing in Burgundy. I
didn't want to lie, as we'll need Russia to go after Germany and apply
pressure when we attack from the west. I told him that Germany and I had
discussed it and that Germany was heavily in favor of it, but that I'd
rather not and was trying to talk Germany out of it. I also tried to steer
the discussion toward a defense against Austria, which I think would be
perfect for our plans -- Germany can still push up into Lvn and leave
Munich exposed, but Russia's not completely blindsided and still maintains
some trust in us.
That's the story if he comes around confirming it.
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
Sure enough, Germany came asking about the bounce in Burgundy. All of your
information bait is catching fish, Tony. I think our assault will go
splendidly.
Wish we knew what Turkey was up to, though.
Erik
Message from England to France and Germany
Tony -
> Sure enough, Germany came asking about the bounce in
> Burgundy. All of your
> information bait is catching fish, Tony. I think our assault will go
> splendidly.
Would you remind me again what we learn from all this, Tony?
> Wish we knew what Turkey was up to, though.
I have a press in to him & will let you guys know what he has in mind, when
I hear from him.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Russia asked me point blank if Germany and I were bouncing in
> Burgundy. I didn't want to lie, as we'll need Russia to go
> after Germany and apply pressure when we attack from the west.
I agree with your analysis.
> I told him that Germany and I had discussed it and that Germany
> was heavily in favor of it, but that I'd rather not and was
> trying to talk Germany out of it. I also tried to steer the
> discussion toward a defense against Austria, which I think
> would be perfect for our plans -- Germany can still push up
> into Lvn and leave Munich exposed, but Russia's not completely
> blindsided and still maintains some trust in us.
I think your answer was excellent & serves our purpose. Of course I do not
think we need a *strong* Russia, with whom we would need to share dots.
Really all we need is a Russia who does not collapse like a house of cards.
. .
> That's the story if he comes around confirming it.
Thanks. I am alittle surprised noone's asked me about BEL, but that's the
truth of it.
Ben
Message from Germany to England and France
Well I am not sure who erik meant when he said germany came asking about the
bounce in BUR.
I am assuming he means austria or italy.
Italy thinks AF are after him. I think we are the only ones who seem to have
a solid agreement.
The only thing I dont hear of is the ER relation. Maybe you are buttering
him up ;-)
Message from France to England and Germany
> Well I am not sure who erik meant when he said germany came asking about
> the
> bounce in BUR.
> I am assuming he means austria or italy.
Sorry, typo. It was actually *Russia* that asked.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
As I said, I'm looking more at working with England over Germany in the
near term, but when it comes time to change courses, a lot will hinge on
the situation between you and him. What has your relationship been like
with him to date?
If Germany's the eventual target, I don't think you have to worry about
him attack you up north, but I haven't really been privvy to any
discussions between you, whether through you or him. I know you've been
talking, though. Can I assume that you're building a strong enough rapport
with him that he will leave Scandanavia exposed to you at some point?
I know that's all a little vague, but I'm trying to peer a few years into
the future.
Erik
Message from Germany to England and France
Well if it was Russia then that may point to a possible Russian move on me
or england. That would at worst make me bounce in either sil or pru. I will
still be able to bounce him in Sweden so we would still come out on top.
Its not that Russia is hoping for a GR against England which would be the
case if I was against france. So I wonder what and more important with whom
he will share this information.
An anti English or anti german opening by russia does not effect our plans.
If at worst he pushes mos to stp then england is still strong enough to take
norway with 2 units.
I will mention this inquiry into BUR to Russia to see how he reacts ;-)
Message from Germany to France
Hmmm if it was Russia then this may point to an RE alliance. What do you
think? I will inform russia that i will open kie -den (request of austria),
mun - bur (to an agreed bounce) and ber - kie. A pretty standard opening.
Message from Germany to all
OK, so here it is. MUN - BUR (agreed bounce with France), KIE - DEN (on
request), BER - KIE. Pretty standard opening I would say. Anyone else like
to share?
Message from France to Germany
>
> Hmmm if it was Russia then this may point to an RE alliance. What do you
> think? I will inform russia that i will open kie -den (request of
> austria),
> mun - bur (to an agreed bounce) and ber - kie. A pretty standard
> opening.
>
I don't doubt that RE are on good speaking terms, but I can't imagine that
England would jeopardize his against against Russia that early. He's
probably just laying the groundwork for a later turn.
I wouldn't ask Russia about that Burgundy inquiry, if I were you. It will
tell him that we're sharing that kind of information (who asked whom
about) very quickly, and certainly put him on alert. It would be wiser to
let sleeping dogs lie.
Erik
Message from France to England
What's up with that broadcast? Is he a.) essentially allowing himself to
be viewed as a liar by every person on the board or b.) really planning
that set of moves and setting us up as patsies (and with an army in
Burgundy, to boot)? This doesn't bode well. We need to decide whether or
not to reverse course and order an all-out assault in the first turn.
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Russia just contacted me. He is a little weary of an AT alliance. Something
I doubt as Turkey hardly speaks. I have broadcasted my moves ;-) just to see
what happens.
Englans is safe anyway as long as you dont go to ENG. As you said we can
always double back if need be in the fall. The opening does allow the
covering of all home sc's.
Message from France to Germany
> I doubt as Turkey hardly speaks. I have broadcasted my moves ;-) just to
> see
> what happens.
Yes, I noticed. Kind of shreds your credibility after this opening though,
doesn't it? If we need to double back on England, say, aren't you worried
about a lack of trust on A/I/R's part?
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Nahhhh. It never was to be. Just have to sow some doubt in their minds. I
usually findt that when I play a listed names game then I usually find all 6
coming after me. The real diplomacy wont start until the fall.
As for shreading credibility I recall the last comment game. All three
neighbours of england lied remember ;-)
We tend to talk the most so hopefully EG are set for a long relation. Thats
more than anyone can hope for after the spring of 1901.
IA are a little worried about each other, so is rusia regarding AT. That
just leaves the three of us to work things out which we have. I may have it
all wrong but as I said the real diplomacy wont start until the fall.
Initially I asked Italy to move on you and Russia to move on ENgland, just
standard diplomacy reducing any risk of an EF against me. In the meantime I
try to make friends with at least one of you. Its england I have the most
worries about. He seems new and fresh but the ER is a little worrying.
Personally I think Russia will come after me with or without austrias or
italys help.
If worst comes to the worst let two strong neighbours bearing down on you
come to a head to head around you then play one out against the other. There
is always one greedier than the other.
I have gone back down to one sc many times and still survived into a draw
;-)
Announce some moves or at least the bounce in BUR just to see what happens.
Full open press sometimes leads to interesting developments, especially near
a deadline !
Message from Germany to France
>We tend to talk the most so hopefully EG are set for a long relation.>
Hmm fat fingers and nearing bed time, that was ment to be FG ;-)>
Message from England to France
Erik -
> What's up with that broadcast? Is he a.) essentially allowing himself to
> be viewed as a liar by every person on the board or b.) really planning
> that set of moves and setting us up as patsies (and with an army in
> Burgundy, to boot)? This doesn't bode well. We need to decide whether or
> not to reverse course and order an all-out assault in the first turn.
Good questions. I can only assume he is lying to everyone else. Because
if he was planning on attacking you, he would want my help, and he hasn't
said anything to me. Take a deep breath - things are still going well.
Even if he were to attack you, your position would be solid, defensively,
and god knows I don't want him around, so he'd have both of us as enemies
and nothing to show for it, positionally.
I'm setting wait again. I will write back soon - I'm going fishing for
information. Be patient. ;-)
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
Russian move on Germany or me says one thing to me, and that begins with a
J and rhymes with puggernaut.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
I've been fishing & I'm satisfied everything is in order. I've
corresponded with some of the eastern powers - received recent notes from
Austria, Turkey, & Italy - & I like what I'm hearing. Let's stick with
Plan A - Western Triple S'01, Germany stab F'01.
Ok?
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
From what I hear from Italy, I'm guessing MAR - PIE will succeed.
Ben
Message from France to England
> I've been fishing & I'm satisfied everything is in order. I've
> corresponded with some of the eastern powers - received recent notes
> from
> Austria, Turkey, & Italy - & I like what I'm hearing. Let's stick with
> Plan A - Western Triple S'01, Germany stab F'01.
>
I agree. Just wanted to pose an alternative scenario so we're not rushing
into this. All signs point to a successful invasion of Piedmont. Besides,
I get the impression that Tony already assumes that nobody trusts him.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
> Nahhhh. It never was to be. Just have to sow some doubt in their minds.
> I
> usually findt that when I play a listed names game then I usually find
> all 6
> coming after me. The real diplomacy wont start until the fall.
> As for shreading credibility I recall the last comment game. All three
> neighbours of england lied remember ;-)
Hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't lie. Just want to make sure what you're
doing. I think, as you do, that there's enough suspicion in this game
between the eastern powers that a bold broadcast lie isn't going to make
much of a difference in the long run.
> Its england I have the
> most
> worries about. He seems new and fresh but the ER is a little worrying.
> Personally I think Russia will come after me with or without austrias or
> italys help.
Once again, Austria and Turkey are the key to preventing any kind of
threat from ER. As long as Russia has other headaches to deal with, he'll
be less inclined to lift much of a finger to help England, especially
once you've called off or halted your attack (after taking Warsaw, of
course). I'm not too worried about ER, though we clearly want to keep an
eye out for it.
I think a German move on you signals confidence in his relationship with
England, but if England moves north as planned, how long will that
confidence last? I see a lot of eastern powers getting very flustered by
our opening.
Erik
Message to all
> OK, so here it is. MUN - BUR (agreed bounce with France), KIE - DEN (on
> request), BER - KIE. Pretty standard opening I would say. Anyone else like
> to share?
Can we expect you to keep this up?
Message from Germany to all
<Can we expect you to keep this up?>
Who are 'we'? some of you can some of you cant. Those that expect will
receive ;-)
So, no one else willing to lie.. I mean share their opening moves?
Turkey; just to save on press and answer in this one, the answer is NO.
I will not be asking France and Italy to convoy me to SMY nor will I aid in
any EFI convoy of a Russian unit from STP to CON.
Message from England to all
> I will not be asking France and Italy to convoy me to SMY nor
> will I aid in any EFI convoy of a Russian unit from STP to CON.
My suggestion was for a convoy of a Russian army from NAF to STP, via the
Eastern Med. Please read your press more carefully.
My opening moves are:
F STP/sc - BOT
A MOS - WAR
A WAR - MOS
F SEV - ION
This way I maximize my defensive posture and bounce Italy from the Ionian.
Ben
Austria: Army Budapest → Serbia
Austria: Fleet Trieste → Venice (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna → Budapest
England: Fleet Edinburgh → Norwegian Sea
England: Army Liverpool → Yorkshire
England: Fleet London → North Sea
France: Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Marseilles → Piedmont
France: Army Paris → Gascony
Germany: Army Berlin → Kiel
Germany: Fleet Kiel → Denmark
Germany: Army Munich → Ruhr
Italy: Fleet Naples → Ionian Sea
Italy: Army Rome → Apulia
Italy: Army Venice HOLD
Russia: Army Moscow HOLD
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Gulf of Bothnia
Russia: Army Warsaw → Ukraine
Turkey: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Smyrna → Armenia
|