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Message from France to England
Should have listened to my gut. Bastard just hung us out to dry -- he
gets two builds, can let Russia into Sweden and play it off like he had
no idea what was going on. Meanwhile, we've got to deal with an angry
Russia and Italy. Even if I surround Mujnich, he can build A Mun and A
Ber, and I've got no hope of taking it. Jesus. Maybe you can at least
outguess him and bounch him in Holland or Bel. Ugh.
Interesting moves on the Turk's part, though. Did you have anything to do
with that?
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
Nice moves, bud. Guess the super sneak-attack Western triple is off now.
At least I can still grab Spain and Portugal. Assuming, off course, that
I can talk my way out of Mar - Pie. You must be having a nice little
chuckle over this prank.
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Hi Erik, well I am sure that if I opened as agreed upon then England would be
convoying into BEL by now. I was seriously concerned about an ER realtionship
and that England had informed Russia of my moves.
As it is I will bounce Ben in BEL & HOL. If I was anti French then I would have
moved on BUR. I would also have informed Italy that you were moving to PIE. I
told you of his problem in VEN. If I informed him of you moving to PIE then all
he would have had to have done is bounce you in PIE and he would have still
been able to protect VEN.
This would have made me his friend. I didnt tell him so this should mean
something to you. I appreciate and understand your initial reaction but look at
the facts. I didnt inform Italy, I didnt move on BUR. I do want an FG against
England. I can help you with Italy. I am anti english.
I will be pushing Russia to work together with me against England so please
join in.
I want you to grab two builds although I would prefer you grab one and move MAO
to ENG. I can help you against Italy by building in MUN and moving on TYR.
Keep PIE where it is. We can take on England and Italy.
I will be pushing for a fleet in KIE army in MUN. I hope you join me against
England.
Maybe you can convince Austria to support you into VEN. I want you as an ally,
once again look at the facts and the board. We can take on England and Italy. A
move to ENG will set us up fine. If not grab two and build a fleet in BRE.
Convince the englishman that you are upset with me and offer to attack me with
him. Just move on ENG instead. We will be in england by the end of next year.
Message from Germany to England and France
Sorry guys I got really paranoid about an ER alliance.
I saw Russia bouncing me in SIL or PRU and England convoying to BEL or HOL.
By next year I would have the pair of them bearing down on me. Following
that I expected them to bring France on board.
The damage is minimal as England can still move on BAR and convoy YOR to
NWY. I can still bounce Russia in SWE. In the spring we can take Sweden and in
the fall we can take STP.
Forgive me my trespasses, it was purely down to the jitters of a spring
move. I ran the most risk of a stab and paranoia got the upperhand.
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
You care to explain your opening moves? I'm glad
to see no one is attacking you; but why move
against Andy when I said I wasn't ready to?
Philippe
Message from Italy to France
Erik...
Metagaming is below you.
Im nou sure why you wasted your time attacking me, and gave the German 3
builds simultaniously but you did....so what is done is done.
So...why break our DMZ for no profit.
Andy
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
Part of a larger plan that, due to some last-minute, uncommunicated
changes on Tony's part, didn't happen. Let's just say he didn't move as
expected.
Anyway, here I am. Given the sudden change in circumstances, I had been
planning to make nice with Andy and pull back. On the other hand, we do
have two units bordering Venice, and with a little diplomacy, we might be
able to do something with that. It seems unlikely that Andy would order
anything other than A Apu S A Ven, but you never know.
In any case, I guess I have damage control to do with Italy, no matter
what. I'll start doing that now. If you'd like to take advantage of my
current position, please let me know. I'm open to supporting you into
Venice if it means grabbing Rome and Tunis down the road for me.
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
Okay, I can't say you didn't warn me. "Watch out for Tony, watch out for
Tony, watch out for Tony." At least I've learned my lesson early.
I'm dreadfully sorry for the move to Piedmont. I was convinced, thanks to
the efforts of a certain neighbor of ours, that you were headed west
toward Spain and Marseilles. The Austrian's cryptic and unhelpful press,
perhaps at Germany's urging, didn't help matters. I thought Mar - Pie
would bounce. I shouldn't have let him get into my head, but I did.
I suspect that Tony's pulled the same voodoo with England, as I think
they'd made a plan to attack Russia right off the bat -- and it looks like
Tony left Ben out to dry on that one, too. I definitely underestimated his
ability to manipulate people.
The good news is that I can't see this doing anything but bringing England
and I closer together and more resolved to take on Germany. The bad news,
of course, is that I'm in Piedmont, and that's rightfully got you a little
miffed.
I will most certainly move back to Marseilles and hope that you continue
on whatever course (anti-Turkish?) you were headed down.
I need to look at the map and think about where to go next. If you could
do whatever possible diplomatically to make sure that Russia and England
have an interest in seeing Germany go down, I'd appreciate it.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
> Hi Erik, well I am sure that if I opened as agreed upon then England
> would be
> convoying into BEL by now. I was seriously concerned about an ER
> realtionship
> and that England had informed Russia of my moves.
I can't blame you, but for the record, both England and I were quite
willing to see where this gambit took all of us. I don't know if he told
Russia anything about it, but based on the Russian opening, I would guess
not.
> As it is I will bounce Ben in BEL & HOL. If I was anti French then I
> would have
> moved on BUR. I would also have informed Italy that you were moving to
> PIE. I
> told you of his problem in VEN. If I informed him of you moving to PIE
> then all
> he would have had to have done is bounce you in PIE and he would have
> still
> been able to protect VEN.
No, I don't doubt that. I wasn't suggesting that you were being anti-
French, merely that you had deep sixed our opening plan, and thereby more
or less killed the point of the strategy -- that specific opening was
built around a quick, coordinated surprise attack of our neighbors, and
that's not so much possible anymore.
I was actually more worried that you'd take a different approach and
follow your broadcast orders to a T -- thereby ending up with you in
Burgundy as a result of our missed "bounce".
>
> I want you to grab two builds although I would prefer you grab one and
> move MAO
> to ENG. I can help you against Italy by building in MUN and moving on
> TYR.
> Keep PIE where it is. We can take on England and Italy.
I'm not sure that we can take on both at once. A lot of that will depend
on Austria, who, frankly, is stupified that I moved to Piedmont. If you
have some sway with him, though, maybe it's possible.
I will consider a move to Eng, but to be honest, at this point, it seems
wiser to go for the two safe builds and see what you do next.
> I will be pushing for a fleet in KIE army in MUN. I hope you join me
> against
> England.
As I said, I am considering it. In fact, I had thought that was the plan
for a few years down the road anyway; I didn't realize you preferred to go
after him earlier. I'm a little perturbed at your opening deception, but
what's done is done. Let me look at the map and get back to you. If you
have some success with Russia and/or Austria, let me know and that may
help convince me.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> Part of a larger plan that, due to some last-minute, uncommunicated
> changes on Tony's part, didn't happen. Let's just say he didn't move as
> expected.
I guess he didn't went for the western triple ;-( Could
you elaborate on the subject just so I know what I'm
dealing with here?
> Anyway, here I am. Given the sudden change in circumstances, I had been
> planning to make nice with Andy and pull back. On the other hand, we do
> have two units bordering Venice, and with a little diplomacy, we might be
> able to do something with that. It seems unlikely that Andy would order
> anything other than A Apu S A Ven, but you never know.
>
> In any case, I guess I have damage control to do with Italy, no matter
> what. I'll start doing that now. If you'd like to take advantage of my
> current position, please let me know. I'm open to supporting you into
> Venice if it means grabbing Rome and Tunis down the road for me.
In a way, I'm disturb that you were willing to go after
my potential saviour, even though I indicated I wasn't
up for it; but since there's no RT, I suppose it's worth
examining.
Philippe
Message from England to all
> :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
and find you?
Ben
Message from Italy to all
>
> > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
> Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
> and find you?
I am going to be at the North American Dip Championships til Monday.
starting tommorow morning
Message to all
> > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
>Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
>and find you?
I confess. It's me.
;-)
Message from Germany to France
>>I can't blame you, but for the record, both England and I were quite
willing to see where this gambit took all of us. I don't know if he told
Russia anything about it, but based on the Russian opening, I would guess
not.>>
In hindsight I agree, I too would have liked to see where it ended up. But
could you inmagine my units being in PRU and SIL right now. Especially with
Russia under attack in the south. If I was England then I would convoy to
HOL or BEL.
Prefably HOL and then I would offer you BEL next year if you joined me. No,
I am glad I didnt go ahead with it. England would be laughing by now. Russia
on his side and Germany's back door wide open. I am sure that if I were in
PRU/SIL and you were playing England then you too would convoy to BEL or
HOL.
>>I'm not sure that we can take on both at once. A lot of that will depend
on Austria, who, frankly, is stupified that I moved to Piedmont. If you have
some sway with him, though, maybe it's possible.>>
Sure we can take them on, we like a good scrap. The move to PIE does look a
little weird on its own, but in context it fits perfectly. Italy is
beginnening to believe that you and Austria set him up. That would explain
the insistence of Austria on bouncing in VEN. I am sure if you and I push
him he will come on board. offer him VEN. Moving back to MAR is pointless.
Its obvious I am not after you. It also leaves MAR open for a build.
I will talk to Austria and see what I can do, but I am pretty sure he would
come onboard. I would. He must feel that Italy cant offer him any help in
any way.
>>I will consider a move to Eng, but to be honest, at this point, it seems
wiser to go for the two safe builds and see what you do next.>>
Your situation is safe. The east poses no threat and your fleet would be in
ENG. You could even afford to build an army in BRE to convoy in the spring.
If I was after you then I would not have screwed up the FEG alliance. That
would surely ensure that FE came after me. I made a decision for a partner
the moment you opened up the possibility of attack england in the near
future. All my moves are anti English (when considered in the EFG alliance).
Dont forget it was a spring move of 1901. Anything could have happened. I
could have had you two breathing down my neck with my units in PRU/SIL. I
just got lucky. But I did decide on an alliance with you when I decided to
break the EFG. Thats why I am not in BUR and you did not bounce with Italy
in PIE. England sounds to cautious, he has a sit back wait and see
mentality. Lets clean up there and nibble away at Italy. If you want to solo
you have to grab TUN anyway. Having a strong England and Germany wouldnt
help.
>>I'm a little perturbed at your opening deception, but what's done is
done>>
As I said it could have gone either way. With me in PRU/SIL then you and
england could now be in BUR and PIC.
BEL and HOL would have fallen and besides Russia I would have had you to to
contend with. Now FG have a chance to make a good start and grow.
Message from Germany to all
> Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500Will one of you confess to
being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come and find you?>
Well the 18th is my birthday and I was planning on spending all cash
donations on a shopping spree at Harrods in f1903m (in London for the
americans under you ;-). But if the offer is right then I will be willing to
hunt the AWOLér down
Message from Italy to France
Erik,
> Okay, I can't say you didn't warn me. "Watch out for Tony, watch out for
> Tony, watch out for Tony." At least I've learned my lesson early.
>
I hope so....you are wide open and he is going to hurt you if you dont do
something about it. Because he is going to get 3 unless Ben can find a way
to talk him into Belgium, which I doubt.
> I'm dreadfully sorry for the move to Piedmont. I was convinced, thanks to
> the efforts of a certain neighbor of ours, that you were headed west
> toward Spain and Marseilles.
Understood. And as soon as I saw it, I was pretty sure that was going on.
The Austrian's cryptic and unhelpful press,
> perhaps at Germany's urging, didn't help matters. I thought Mar - Pie
> would bounce. I shouldn't have let him get into my head, but I did.
I dont think so....Austria is giving me a firm line of *what the hell is
going on*, and I believe him to a point.
> I suspect that Tony's pulled the same voodoo with England, as I think
> they'd made a plan to attack Russia right off the bat -- and it looks like
> Tony left Ben out to dry on that one, too. I definitely underestimated his
> ability to manipulate people.
Did you just ignore me when I said that he was MUCH better than I am.
Much better than Tamas is.
Help me out here.
But there is no reason to beat a dead horse.
> The good news is that I can't see this doing anything but bringing England
> and I closer together and more resolved to take on Germany. The bad news,
> of course, is that I'm in Piedmont, and that's rightfully got you a little
> miffed.
Just get out of my backyard.
> I will most certainly move back to Marseilles and hope that you continue
> on whatever course (anti-Turkish?) you were headed down.
We shall see.
> I need to look at the map and think about where to go next. If you could
> do whatever possible diplomatically to make sure that Russia and England
> have an interest in seeing Germany go down, I'd appreciate it.
I will do my best.
Message from Germany to all
>>I am going to be at the North American Dip Championships til Monday.>>
Try and set a board up as we stand at this moment and ask 7 top players to
make fall move suggestions (backed up by the diploming that needs to be done
first).
p.s. Dont forget to share anything they say
Message to all
> > > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
> >Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to
come
> >and find you?
>
> I confess. It's me.
>
> ;-)
>
>
Tony, I am one of those expecting you to broadcast your fall moves!
Message from Germany to Austria and France
Interesting tactics guys, congratulations you had me fooled. Now I
understand the TRI - VEN bounce when seen in context with an unnatural move
to PIE if France was working alone.
As France is looking at two builds I am assuming that Austria will be
supported into VEN.
This doesnt ensure VEN as Italy can support with APU but I must admit it
will enable the two of you to wrap Italy up rather quick. Having seen the
spring moves then I am also making the assumption that Austria is working
with Turkey and will be heading for GRE whilst he supports BUL to RUM along
with Turkeys move on BLA and SEV (cutting support). No doubt the AF alliance
will eventually cost Turkey its head.
Message from Germany to France
OK, here goes I will press to you and Austria. I will make it up as I go
along ;-)
Message from Austria to France and Germany
> Interesting tactics guys, congratulations you had me fooled. Now I
> understand the TRI - VEN bounce when seen in context with an unnatural move
> to PIE if France was working alone.
> As France is looking at two builds I am assuming that Austria will be
> supported into VEN.
> This doesnt ensure VEN as Italy can support with APU but I must admit it
> will enable the two of you to wrap Italy up rather quick. Having seen the
> spring moves then I am also making the assumption that Austria is working
> with Turkey and will be heading for GRE whilst he supports BUL to RUM along
> with Turkeys move on BLA and SEV (cutting support). No doubt the AF alliance
> will eventually cost Turkey its head.
What's going on with you two? Are you just trying
to make things interesting for the observer or is
there a point behind this ;-)
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria and France
>>What's going on with you two? Are you just trying
to make things interesting for the observer or is
there a point behind this ;-)>>
Hahahaha so the pair of you still deny planning this all along. OK, i can
await the fall outcome.
If you two do decide to "let me in" then "let me know".
Message from Germany to all
Hey Jason, I think that it was only you and me who went it alone maybe we
should team up for a 2 way?!... or did you move in accordance with...... ;-)
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
> Hahahaha so the pair of you still deny planning this all along. OK, i can
> await the fall outcome.
> If you two do decide to "let me in" then "let me know".
I don't want to rush you, but I'm still waiting to hear
more about the source of all this. Joking about it is
entertaining, but it would be more fun if I knew what
this is all about.
Philippe
Message from France to Austria
>
> What's going on with you two? Are you just trying
> to make things interesting for the observer or is
> there a point behind this ;-)
>
I think the point is that Germany's off his rocker. I'll write a full
response to your previous message shortly.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
So the story is that it seems we were heading toward a western triple not
necessarily by concious design but as a result of German manipulation.
Germany scared me into making a strong attack against Italy out of fear
that Andy planned to open Ven - Pie and Nap - Tys. Your reluctance to work
with me against Andy reinforced that idea, as it seemed to me that an AI
partnership must have formed. When Andy started pushing for me to attack
Germany, it all started to point toward an Italian attack.
I suppose Germany did the same with England and Russia, hence the Northern
attack. England and I should have compared notes more -- we just agreed
not to attack one another, for the most part. Anyway, I expected some
German moves that didn't materialize. Germany claims that he rushed west
out of fear of an impending EF attack, but I think he just wanted England
and I out of the way so that he could get two or three guaranteed builds
to himself.
Clearly, I was wrong in my thinking, and now I'm stuck in Piedmony.
Germany would, of course, like to see my attack continue, and is probably
trying to encourage you to help me out.
That's the story. Hope it's been enlightening. Andy's mad, but seems to
accept my reasoning. The question is: what now?
Erik
Message from Russia to France
Interesting move to Pie. I assume that was coordinated with Austria.
To be honest, I don't like it (probably not a surprise to you, and
probably part of why you never mentioned anything about it), but
mainly because with the threat of an AT, I don't like the idea that
Italy may not be able to help distract one or the other of them.
I'm going to be away for a while (I'm the one with the absence) but I
hope we can continue to keep up the communications.
More later.
--- Tzarface
Message from Russia to all
Yo' -- dere's a lot mora dem grey broadcasts going around agin.
Ceppin' fer Jason "da Kid", we'z all done our five jobs fer Don
Masseyoni an' is made men. We deserve more respect dan dis.
An' tell Ben "da' Shark" dat he don' need ta' send "Snake Eyes" Tony
out on no jobs. I'z da won wat's gonna be dealin' wit family bizness
fer a bit.
--- Tzarface
END ORIGINAL MESSAGE
=================================================
The following translation is brought to you by The Counsel for Clear
Communication through Silly Broadcast Personas (C3-SBP):
"Ben, I'm the one who requested the absence. --- Eric"
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
> The damage is minimal as England can still move on BAR and
> convoy YOR to NWY. I can still bounce Russia in SWE. In the spring we can
> take Sweden and in the fall we can take STP.
> Forgive me my trespasses, it was purely down to the jitters
> of a spring move. I ran the most risk of a stab and paranoia
> got the upperhand.
Well there's no question you were the most vulnerable between the three of
us. But there is a change, in that the speed of our selected opening is
limited by the fact that you went west instead of east.
Still I have a modification to propose & I hope we will agree it is
reasonable. One of us - I forget whom - was circulating that I was to take
Belgium with a fleet. Why don't we just go ahead with that plan & I still
convoy the army to Norway. This way we can hopefully regain the element of
surprise when the new German armies go east rather than west. Tony, you
could support yourself into Holland *** Kiel supporting RUH - HOL so as to
avoid future jitters *** while Erik does what he can with Italy.
It may slow us down for the capture of STP but we will have the advantage of
having disguised our intentions a bit longer.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
Curious - my fg press was delayed a few hours by the judge.
> Still I have a modification to propose & I hope we will agree it is
> reasonable. One of us - I forget whom - was circulating that
> I was to take
> Belgium with a fleet. Why don't we just go ahead with that
> plan & I still convoy the army to Norway.
Oh aren't I silly. This does not work as my army is in YOR.
Anyway I do not think the EFG is broken & indeed I have the following
proposal:
Germany take HOL. France take Iberia. I take BEL *by convoy* and NWY with
a fleet. Natural looking moves. Then in the spring I can move NWY - BAR,
and BEL - NTH - NWY, and Germany can build armies and proceed east as
originally discussed, meanwhile France is poised to enter the Mediterranean
with authority. Within a year or two we should be able to balance out
builds, with some centers pretty obviously available for trade: BEL, SWE,
etc.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
What do you think of the revised EFG plan? I would be up for anything & my
first choice is attacking Tony. I'm game for pretty much anything but I
wanted to keep the EFG dialogue moving forward.
Ben
Message from Germany to England and France
>>It may slow us down for the capture of STP but we will have the advantage
of
having disguised our intentions a bit longer.Thoughts?>>
Interesting. At least the powers that be wont think France has lost all
sense of reality it by moving to PIE ;-)
I could live with a fleet in BEL if it means I have been forgiven. I really
think the pair of you should have gone for PIC/BUR and taken BEL & HOL. But
I sure am glad you didnt, ok play wise I came out ok. Just luck. I could now
be sitting in SIL/PRU with you two in PIC/BUR and me commiting suicide in
white press ;-)
I like the idea of disguising our intentions.
Do you guys think that there is an AT in the making? Russia thinks that
there is, he is asking me for Sweden.
Message from Germany to France
I am game which ever way we go, if you say we go for England then we go for
England. If you say EFG then we can give that a shot. Maybe the two of you
will repay me but hey thats diplomacy. Let me know. Any luck with Austria
yet?
Message from England to France and Germany
> I could live with a fleet in BEL if it means I have been
> forgiven.
As I said in the subsequent e-mail - I can't really do this. But I think
the convoy works just as well, as I couldn't hold BEL even if I wanted to.
> I really think the pair of you should have gone for PIC/BUR and taken
> BEL & HOL. But I sure am glad you didnt, ok play wise I came out ok. Just
> luck. I could now be sitting in SIL/PRU with you two in PIC/BUR and me
> commiting suicide in white press ;-)
Could we do Spring '01 over again please?
> I like the idea of disguising our intentions.
> Do you guys think that there is an AT in the making? Russia
> thinks that there is, he is asking me for Sweden.
My thoughts from looking at the map - the AT is *made*. Russia will never
see RUM. If we are going to try for an EFG then I do not think you should
give him SWE. We have plenty of time to hash it out.
Ben
Message to all
WIDDLE WABBITS
Widdle Wabbits (A Thory To Warm Your Heart)
A precious little girl walks into a pet shop and asks in the
sweetest little lisp, "Excuthe me, mithter, do you keep widdle
wabbits?"
As the shopkeeper's heart melts, he gets down on his knees, so that
he's on her level, and asks, "Do you want a widdle white wabbit or a
thoft and fuwwy bwack wabbit or maybe one like that cute widdle bwown
wabbit overthere?"
She, in turn blushes, rocks on her heels, puts her hands on her
knees, leans forward and says in a quiet voice, "I don't fink my pet python
weally gives a thit."
JUGERNAUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Message from Austria to France
> That's the story. Hope it's been enlightening. Andy's mad, but seems to
> accept my reasoning. The question is: what now?
Hard to know at the moment. Tony has been milking
this for all that it's worth and I have started hearing
about an AF alliance. This isn't necessarily bad for
us, but it doesn't look good either.
At a mininum, I would suggest you start thinking
about Gas-Bur as Ruh isn't necessarily going where
we think.
What does England think about all this by the way?
Philippe
Message from Turkey to all
I only move in accordance with the voices in my head....
jason
Message from England to France
Erik -
Right now my thinking is, get us each two builds in '01, and look at a stab
against Germany in '02 or soon after.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from France to England
>
> Erik -
> Right now my thinking is, get us each two builds in '01, and look at a
> stab
> against Germany in '02 or soon after.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ben
That's exactly what I'm thinking. Germany is encouraging me to keep going
after Italy, but I don't think that's wise. Even with Austria's help, I
don't have the firepower to win down there without leaving myself
vulnerable somewhere else.
What's more, I don't think Austria's even interested in helping -- he's
got some sort of scheme cooking, and wants to keep Italy on friendly terms
in case he needs a "saviour" (his words, not mine). I would think this
indicated a an AI alliance of sorts, but Italy's open and other info leads
me to believe this isn't the case.
I was mad busy at work yesterday afternoon and didn't have a chance to
respond to all the dialogue between you and Germany. I'll write more this
afternoon.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
>
> I am game which ever way we go, if you say we go for England then we go
> for
> England. If you say EFG then we can give that a shot. Maybe the two of
> you
> will repay me but hey thats diplomacy. Let me know. Any luck with
> Austria
> yet?
No, no luck with Austria yet. He seems to think that Italy is going to
save him from some future evil, and doesn't want to antagonize him. I
haven't been able to hammer away at him much, as I had a busy afternoon
yesterday (which is also why I'm late getting back to you).
I will get back to you with a detailed response on EFG vs FG in a couple
of hours. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
>
> At a mininum, I would suggest you start thinking
> about Gas-Bur as Ruh isn't necessarily going where
> we think.
What makes you say this? Conjecture? Or do you have reason to believe it's
happening?
> What does England think about all this by the way?
You should ask him. As far as I know, he's also irked at Germany, but his
plan to head north may still be intact. I belive, though, that he and
Germany are going to end up dividing up Belgium and Ruhr.
Look, I'm not in the position I planned to be in. In Diplomacy, are we
ever, really? I am, however, in a position in which you and I, if we
thought it possible, could actually take on Italy. It would mean dealing
with the possiblity of Germany and/or England attacking and me having to
deal with a two- or three-front war. Assuming I can prevent that, though,
we could feasibly do this.
It's ultimately up to you. If you're not into taking out a neighbor who
will eventually be an adversary, then I'm sure as heck not going to do it
on my own with England and Germany up in the air. However, if you want to
take advantage of my current position, I'm willing to work with you.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
I have one major concern right now. You should be aware of it.
Assuming F Mao - Por, Gas - Spa and Pie - Mar, what if I suddenly see:
A Ruhr - Bur
A Kiel - Hol
A Yor - Nth - Bel
Then I've got to be a little worried. Why would Germany cross into
Burgundy unless he'd already spoken about it with England? A lone attack
on France by Germany would be foolish, as England would certainly be
pulled in on one side or the other, and he wouldn't want to run the risk
of you choosing the other side.
So the only thing I can do then is build an army in Paris and a fleet in
Brest, and if I see Ruhr - Bur, that's exactly what I'll do. Then it gets
ugly. You'd take the channel, but I d hold onto Mao for a while. We'd butt
heads in Picardy; Germany and I would butt heads in Burgundy. I'd be okay
down south; Italy's too worried about Austria to head boldly West and
doesn't want to see Tony succeed anyway. Meanwhile, Russia's going to see
you abandon the North and think that maybe it's worthwhile to patch things
up with Turkey.
All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be wise of you to work with Germany
against me. You won't get very far very quickly, and if I have to give up
gains, you will be the last to get them; Tony's simply more likely to take
Paris and Marseilles, especially if he gets the jump on Burgundy. And,
frankly, he's probably the biggest beneficiary in any situation in which
you and I fight, especially when Russia shows no interest in dealing with
him early and Austria's almost a puppet.
I just wanted to point this out now, before Tony's spent too much time
trying to tempt you to the dark side. I'm sure he's offered an EG the same
way that he's brought up an FG since day one. He knows he needs to keep us
split up -- his first moves are evidence enough of that. We've got to take
him out at some point, the sooner the better. I'd like to think the
picture I just painted makes that clear, and if you'd like to provide the
same reasoning to keep me from succumbing to Tony's charms, I welcome it.
Let's finish what we started here.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> What makes you say this? Conjecture? Or do you have reason to believe it's
> happening?
Not specifically, it's just the way things seem to be going.
With Norway secure, England will be looking for a
second build, wich will probably be Belgium (Germany
can make sure of Holland and even though it could happen,
I don't see why he would deny England his second build).
No problem there yet, but if Germany get in Bur, you will
have a hard time getting him out of France and risk seeing
England joined in the attack sooner or later. What else is
he suppose to do anyway, fight Germany all alone?
> You should ask him. As far as I know, he's also irked at Germany, but his
> plan to head north may still be intact. I belive, though, that he and
> Germany are going to end up dividing up Belgium and Ruhr.
If England doesn't like Germany's style of play, this could
be good for you; but I wouldn't bet everything on it. At
least, with a block of Ruh-Bur or an army in Bur yourselves,
you have something to show up with in a discussion for an
EF alliance, even if your participation in an EF is limited to
supporting England while you have fun in Italy.
> Look, I'm not in the position I planned to be in. In Diplomacy, are we
> ever, really? I am, however, in a position in which you and I, if we
> thought it possible, could actually take on Italy. It would mean dealing
> with the possiblity of Germany and/or England attacking and me having to
> deal with a two- or three-front war. Assuming I can prevent that, though,
> we could feasibly do this.
Like I said previously, this is worth examining; but I must
tell you that an attack on Venice this fall is out of the
question because of the high percentage of failure. Anyway,
the best french attack of Italy would see you go for Gas-Spa,
Mao-Wes & Pie-Tus this fall.
> It's ultimately up to you. If you're not into taking out a neighbor who
> will eventually be an adversary, then I'm sure as heck not going to do it
> on my own with England and Germany up in the air. However, if you want to
> take advantage of my current position, I'm willing to work with you.
Just a precision, I'm willing to work with you whether we
go after Italy now or later. It's just a question of timing. As
a friend, I must tell you that things don't look good at the
moment and I feel that an invasion of Italy wouldn't last
long as you would make too tempting a target for EG; but
if you want, you can try having it both ways by going for
Pie-Tus, Gas-Bur & Mao-Spa(sc).
Think about it and I will do the same on my side,
Philippe.
P.-S. As always, if you hear anything else, please let me know.
Message from England to France
Erik -
> That's exactly what I'm thinking. Germany is encouraging me to keep going
> after Italy, but I don't think that's wise. Even with Austria's help, I
> don't have the firepower to win down there without leaving myself
> vulnerable somewhere else.
This is true. What I would like you to do is, support my proposal to
convoy to BEL & get two builds each this year. I think that is the only
way we will stay in striking distance of a position in which we can attack
Germany. We will be walking a fine line, though, not having a I/F war. I
will try to intercede with Andy to keep him from engaging you if you want;
if you don't care then I'll leave it be. Have you told him about our
lovely experience with Tony?
> What's more, I don't think Austria's even interested in helping -- he's
> got some sort of scheme cooking, and wants to keep Italy on friendly terms
> in case he needs a "saviour" (his words, not mine). I would think this
> indicated a an AI alliance of sorts, but Italy's open and other info leads
> me to believe this isn't the case.
I think you've summed up the situation correctly.
> I was mad busy at work yesterday afternoon and didn't have a chance to
> respond to all the dialogue between you and Germany. I'll write more this
> afternoon.
:-) Write when you can. Some days I'm away from my desk, some days I'm
not. No sweat.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I have one major concern right now. You should be aware of it.
>
> Assuming F Mao - Por, Gas - Spa and Pie - Mar, what if I suddenly see:
>
> A Ruhr - Bur
> A Kiel - Hol
> A Yor - Nth - Bel
Good question.
> Then I've got to be a little worried. Why would Germany cross into
> Burgundy unless he'd already spoken about it with England? A lone attack
> on France by Germany would be foolish, as England would certainly be
> pulled in on one side or the other, and he wouldn't want to run the risk
> of you choosing the other side.
Your question is good & it's not easy for me to answer, because I cannot
promise Tony won't order RUH - BUR. But I can tell you this. I would
rather have you for an ally than Tony. Look at the press you write & look
at the press he writes. Tony is (a) pompous, (b) untrustworthy, and (c)
irritating. I would *much* rather work with you than with him. There are
other reasons, besides Tony, which make you a better ally for me. If I
tried to ally with Tony I would be Mr. Unpopular on the map, beginning with
Andy but including pretty much everyone. Also if I tried to ally with Tony
it would not only be good for Tony but it would be good for Andy, too,
because a strong France limits Italian growth. Just what I need - our two
hobby luminaries being the strongest powers on the map, by my hand.
The thought of being allied with Tony gives me shivers, and I don't mean
the good kind. I mean nails on the chalkboard. And I've got a hunch that
you feel the same. So, on this map, could I try to attack you? I suppose.
But I don't want to, and I hope I've taken the steps necessary to show you
why not. For heaven's sake, if you still have questions or something's not
clear, let me know.
> So the only thing I can do then is build an army in Paris and a fleet in
> Brest, and if I see Ruhr - Bur, that's exactly what I'll do. Then it gets
> ugly. You'd take the channel, but I d hold onto Mao for a while. We'd butt
> heads in Picardy; Germany and I would butt heads in Burgundy. I'd be okay
> down south; Italy's too worried about Austria to head boldly West and
> doesn't want to see Tony succeed anyway. Meanwhile, Russia's going to see
> you abandon the North and think that maybe it's worthwhile to patch things
> up with Turkey.
Um, Erik, I have no idea what Germany will do. Please do not plan on
throwing away our alliance if Tony does something unexpected. After all,
he did something unexpected in the spring, too.
> All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be wise of you to work with Germany
> against me. You won't get very far very quickly, and if I have to give up
> gains, you will be the last to get them; Tony's simply more likely to take
> Paris and Marseilles, especially if he gets the jump on Burgundy. And,
> frankly, he's probably the biggest beneficiary in any situation in which
> you and I fight, especially when Russia shows no interest in dealing with
> him early and Austria's almost a puppet.
Your tactical analysis is excellent. I agree that I would get the short
end of the stick. I will go you one better: I think tactically your *best
defense* would be to deny me centers while Germany picked off one or two.
It would destabilize the EG alliance.
I don't mind giving you this advice. Because the scenario in which it
would be relevant - an EG against F - is not happening.
All I'm planning on right now is:
1. Belgium
2. the North
3. stab Germany with you when possible
Why would I attack you? This plan suits me just fine.
> I just wanted to point this out now, before Tony's spent too much time
> trying to tempt you to the dark side. I'm sure he's offered an EG the same
> way that he's brought up an FG since day one. He knows he needs to keep us
> split up -- his first moves are evidence enough of that. We've got to take
> him out at some point, the sooner the better. I'd like to think the
> picture I just painted makes that clear, and if you'd like to provide the
> same reasoning to keep me from succumbing to Tony's charms, I welcome it.
> Let's finish what we started here.
Of course he's written me about an EG. He's also written about an AF and
an AFG and an RT and an AT. I think he takes prescription medication
before he sits down to write press.
You and I see the same thing in Tony. Now is the time for you to trust
someone & I hope it will be me.
Ben
p.s. I see the receipt for the press I sent a couple of hours ago just
came back. So perhaps you just got the press. This one (I hope) is fresh
when you receive it.
Message from France to England
> Um, Erik, I have no idea what Germany will do. Please do not plan on
> throwing away our alliance if Tony does something unexpected. After
> all,
> he did something unexpected in the spring, too.
Don't worry -- I'm sure he'll send a broadcast out with his plans.
Seriously, I agree with all you've said, but I think it helps keeps an
alliance in better shape if you identify and acknowledge the ways it can
go bad. Such analysis demonstrates some thought and energy on the part of
both parties, which is at least a sign that they've got a commitment to
it.
>
> All I'm planning on right now is:
> 1. Belgium
> 2. the North
> 3. stab Germany with you when possible
> Why would I attack you? This plan suits me just fine.
Agreed. I will go for two builds and, in all likelihood, pull back from
Piedmont to Marseilles. Austria is completely unwilling to attack Italy
right now, and having an army in Tyrolia just gives Andy an opening to
attack me without doing much good against Munich. We will have a more
difficult time getting into Germany now, to be sure, but it pays to be a
little conservative right now. We should start figuring out a plan of
attack, though.
If we're lucky, Germany will end up with A Ruhr, A Hol and F Den, building
A Mun and (probably) fleet Berlin, though perhaps we can convince him to
put an army there, too. I can build A Par and F/A Bre or A Mar. I would
prefer to see you build A Lon and F Edi, but that's without knowing what
you're planning.
Hmm. On further consideration, maybe I *should* move to Tyrolia. With a
build of A Par and A Mar, that gives me a lock on Burgundy in the S02 (A
Mar - Bur, A Par S A Mar - Bur, A Tyr - Mun breaks support for Mun S Ruhr -
Bur). Intriguing. Thoughts?
We really need some pressure from Russia when the time comes. Any idea
what the heck the Turk is up to? That move to Armenia, while a good sign
that we don't have to worry about a Juggernaut, throws a wrench into
things.
Erik
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
What you say makes complete sense. I know you're just as interested in
keeping Italy under control as I am, I don't doubt that for a minute.
Indeed, I don't think I'm primed for a fight with him right now, but given
my position, I wanted to lay the option out there.
I will plan on withdrawing to Marseilles for now to protect against
Germany. I'll also try to talk with England a bit more (though at this
point, it's too early to say what will happen in the west -- we could
still see EG, EF, FG or a triple, in theory ;)). When the time comes to
deal with Italy, we'll talk further.
On an unrelated note, do you have any idea what Turkey's move to Armenia
was all about? That was not what I expected, I can tell you that much. Do
you have any kind of relationship with him? Does anybody?
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
Bold opening. You must have some wacky voices in your head. What are you
planning on doing with that army in Armenia now? Pulling it back, like I
have to do with A Pie ;)?
Erik
Message from France to Italy
Andy:
Thanks for at least understanding my mistake. I can assure you that I will
not be seeking further gains in the Italian peninsula (right now ;) ).
England and I are both very concerned about Tony, and Tony and I are
concerned about England, and I'm sure Tony and England are concerned about
me. Not the best time for a Franco-Italian war.
I have not set any plans in motion yet, but I am considering an intriguing
option in which A Pie moves to Tyrolia. Would you be willing to consider
or even support such a move?
And do you have any idea what the story with the Turk's move to Armenia
was?
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> What you say makes complete sense. I know you're just as interested in
> keeping Italy under control as I am, I don't doubt that for a minute.
> Indeed, I don't think I'm primed for a fight with him right now, but given
> my position, I wanted to lay the option out there.
>
> I will plan on withdrawing to Marseilles for now to protect against
> Germany. I'll also try to talk with England a bit more (though at this
> point, it's too early to say what will happen in the west -- we could
> still see EG, EF, FG or a triple, in theory ;)). When the time comes to
> deal with Italy, we'll talk further.
OK. I'm at your disposal.
> On an unrelated note, do you have any idea what Turkey's move to Armenia
> was all about? That was not what I expected, I can tell you that much. Do
> you have any kind of relationship with him? Does anybody?
In order. He's attacking Russia. I was worried about an RT
myself. I try staying on friendly term with him so he wouldn't
go for an RT alliance. I presume that he is in relation with
others, but I couldn't tell you the extent of it.
I suppose you were hoping for more then that, but I spent
most of my time trying to insure I wouldn't make a quick
exit, so my ability to know what others are thinking is pretty
limited. A good example of that is that I misread you last
turn. While I thought I was open with you and that an attack
on Italy would have to wait until I knew there were no RT,
wich doesn't seem to be a problem anymore, you surprised
me by attacking Italy all by yourself. If I had been more
aware of your own situation, then maybe I could have
express myself better.
Philippe
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Seriously, I agree with all you've said, but I think it helps keeps an
> alliance in better shape if you identify and acknowledge the ways it can
> go bad. Such analysis demonstrates some thought and energy on the part of
> both parties, which is at least a sign that they've got a commitment to
> it.
Absolutely. And a commitment to paying attention to the game, too.
> > All I'm planning on right now is:
> > 1. Belgium
> > 2. the North
> > 3. stab Germany with you when possible
> > Why would I attack you? This plan suits me just fine.
>
> Agreed. I will go for two builds and, in all likelihood, pull back from
> Piedmont to Marseilles. Austria is completely unwilling to attack Italy
> right now, and having an army in Tyrolia just gives Andy an opening to
> attack me without doing much good against Munich. We will have a more
> difficult time getting into Germany now, to be sure, but it pays to be a
> little conservative right now. We should start figuring out a plan of
> attack, though.
About the army in PIE. Here's my thinking. If you go back to MAR then Erik will see that as an abandonment of your attack against Italy and thus an attack against him (or me). If you go to TUS Andy will consider it an attack against him and if you go to TYR Erik will see it as an attack against him. Which it would be. *But* if we wanted we could play that card in the spring, and develop a plan in the fall that will keep PIE in place. The answer to that question is I think VEN. Either PIE - VEN or PIE s TRI - VEN. If you like, you can do it seriously, but the other option is try to set it up so it will *not* succeed, it just leaves PIE where it is, while giving the illusion of action. What do you think of that?
> If we're lucky, Germany will end up with A Ruhr, A Hol and F Den, building
> A Mun and (probably) fleet Berlin, though perhaps we can convince him to
> put an army there, too. I can build A Par and F/A Bre or A Mar. I would
> prefer to see you build A Lon and F Edi, but that's without knowing what
> you're planning.
I don't see how F BRE fits in with anything we've discussed.
> Hmm. On further consideration, maybe I *should* move to Tyrolia. With a
> build of A Par and A Mar, that gives me a lock on Burgundy in the S02 (A
> Mar - Bur, A Par S A Mar - Bur, A Tyr - Mun breaks support for Mun S Ruhr -
> Bur). Intriguing. Thoughts?
Interesting. I will think about it & you should too. But off the top of my head, it looks very tempting.
> We really need some pressure from Russia when the time comes. Any idea
> what the heck the Turk is up to? That move to Armenia, while a good sign
> that we don't have to worry about a Juggernaut, throws a wrench into
> things.
Well, if we persuade Germany we still want a 3-way, then he will bounce Russia from Sweden, which will give us R/G conflict.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> About the army in PIE. Here's my thinking. If you go back
> to MAR then Erik will see
Obviously I meant Tony. But this whole paragraph can be ignored if we want
to go to TYR to set up a springtime seizure of BUR. It would mean we would
end up grinding it out against Tony, but that's ok with me. At least he
wouldn't be sneaking up on us again. . .
Ben
Message from Turkey to France
You know those voices, never can tell what they'll say next. :-)
jason
Message from England to France
Erik -
I see you have still not sent out a group press to eg. Is there something
you're waiting for from me?
No rush, I just wanted to make sure I didn't overlook something.
I want to be clear with you that the convoy to BEL is strictly optional.
Say the word & I will capture with a fleet. . . Just keep in mind how you
would envision it fitting in with our larger plan.
Anyway I hope you had a nice weekend.
Ben
Message from Italy to all
Good Morning...
I owe almost all of you press. Sorry about that, i was without access all
weekend.
It will be coming out shortly.
Andy
Message from Italy to France
> Thanks for at least understanding my mistake. I can assure you that I will
> not be seeking further gains in the Italian peninsula (right now ;) ).
> England and I are both very concerned about Tony, and Tony and I are
> concerned about England, and I'm sure Tony and England are concerned about
> me. Not the best time for a Franco-Italian war.
The english are very concerned about Tony, and he really wants to work
with on it. But I get the impression that he isnt sure of you wanting to
work with him.
I recommend it, work with him.
> I have not set any plans in motion yet, but I am considering an intriguing
> option in which A Pie moves to Tyrolia. Would you be willing to consider
> or even support such a move?
No. I know it doesnt leave me alot of options, but NO...that would get
both Germany and Austria to attack me.
> And do you have any idea what the story with the Turk's move to Armenia
> was?
Tony convinced him to attack Russia, the way he convinced you to attack
me.
Message from Italy to England and France
> Andy -
> > NWG - NWY
> > NTH - BEL
> Thanks. Getting into BEL will be the hard part - I am getting zero
read on Tony.
Tell Tony that it is a condition of continuing to work with him and move
north.
And if he gives it to you, you attack him, and if he doesnt, you attack
him.
Getting it is just a bonus. I dont expect him to give it to you
Andy
Message from England to France
Erik -
Well, now that we have Andy's input, I wonder what you're hearing from Tony.
Ben
Message from France to Italy
>
> > I have not set any plans in motion yet, but I am considering an
> intriguing
> > option in which A Pie moves to Tyrolia. Would you be willing to
> consider
> > or even support such a move?
>
> No. I know it doesnt leave me alot of options, but NO...that would get
> both Germany and Austria to attack me.
What if you didn't support it, but simply didn't do anything to block it?
Would you be willing to consider that? It would help Ben and I against
Tony significantly, and your involvement would have plausible deniability.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
I think my e-mail was a little messed up on Sunday. I sent a response but
don't see judge confirmation or anything in my sent mail. Weird.
I said we should continue the triple attempt, with you going for Belgium
and Germany going for Holland. You'll see, I'll re-send it from what I
remember writing.
Italy is not willing to support me into Tyrolia, but I don't know if that
means he'd oppose a move there. I was having identical thoughts to yours
regarding a fake support of Austria to maintain the FI hostility ruse; if
Italy cooperates, I think it's not a bad plan. A Tyr, A Par, A Mar and A
Bel gives us a formidable force to work with. If we can get the Russian to
apply some heat to the other front, I think we can begin to crack Germany
within a couple of turns.
Can you suggest the same Tyrolia plan to Italy? Perhaps it will seem less
like a ruse if it comes from both of us.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I think my e-mail was a little messed up on Sunday. I sent a response but
> don't see judge confirmation or anything in my sent mail. Weird.
I never got anything. Curious.
> I said we should continue the triple attempt, with you going for Belgium
> and Germany going for Holland. You'll see, I'll re-send it from what I
> remember writing.
Ok. In the end I think I may get bounced from BEL but that will be ok. As long as you get your 2 builds. And who knows, he may actually *do it* after we followed through in the spring.
> Italy is not willing to support me into Tyrolia, but I don't know if that
> means he'd oppose a move there. I was having identical thoughts to yours
> regarding a fake support of Austria to maintain the FI hostility ruse; if
> Italy cooperates, I think it's not a bad plan. A Tyr, A Par, A Mar and A
> Bel gives us a formidable force to work with. If we can get the Russian to
> apply some heat to the other front, I think we can begin to crack Germany
> within a couple of turns.
I agree with your analysis 100%. The problem with my suggestion for PIE s TRI - VEN is it puts Andy in a tough spot if he knows about it. He might respond by freaking out. Because if he knows you will be ordering it, the only thing he has left to decide is wheter (a) Austria knows & (b) Austria will take advantage. Tough call, for him, though of course he can support from APU if he was not intending to convoy to TUN. Anyway I like the move to TYR if we can pull it off. If it fails & I do not get into BEL then that will be rough. But there are always risks. . .
> Can you suggest the same Tyrolia plan to Italy? Perhaps it will seem less
> like a ruse if it comes from both of us.
Yeah, I'll bounce it off him. I'll let you know what he says.
How did you explain the move to PIE? Did you tell him that it was part of an "Triple" stab of Germany? I'd like to know before I write him. . .
Hope you had a nice weekend.
Ben
Message from Italy to France
> >
> > > I have not set any plans in motion yet, but I am considering an
> > intriguing
> > > option in which A Pie moves to Tyrolia. Would you be willing to
> > consider
> > > or even support such a move?
> >
> > No. I know it doesnt leave me alot of options, but NO...that would get
> > both Germany and Austria to attack me.
>
> What if you didn't support it, but simply didn't do anything to block it?
> Would you be willing to consider that? It would help Ben and I against
> Tony significantly, and your involvement would have plausible deniability.
>
Do it.
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
My apologies for being so quiet over the weekend, but I appear to have had
some issues with my outgoing e-mail. I am resending everything today.
To be frank, I don't think it's a good idea for me to head after England
and Italy at the same time. As much as I appreciate the aggressive
approach you're suggesting, it's one that's just going to get me in
trouble, especially given how wishy-washy Austria is being. I don't think
I can fight a war on two fronts and reap benefits from both.
Mao - Eng has some obvious tactical advantages, but it still puts me at a
small loss due to England's guaranteed build in Lon and a potential second
build elsewhere. He's already got F Nth, so if get a build in Bre, my
fleet in Eng still won't have much backup, especially if he's got an
additional fleet in Edinburgh to bring down.
Now, if you were able to bounce him out of Belgium, my chances might
improve significantly. He'd still build a fleet in London, but that gives
him F Nth, F Lon and F Nrg versus our F Bre, F Eng and F Kiel. Nrg is too
far to make a difference, so we're looking at potentially taking the North
Sea within a year, three seasons tops. If we can bring Russia into Norway,
that further ups our chances.
So I think it's either-or: if Austria relents and decides that he wants to
go after Italy, I can attack there and let England stretch himself thin up
in Scandanavia. If Austria's too stubborn, I think Mao - Eng and a bounce
in Bel might be our best bet. Thoughts?
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
Gentlemen:
Apologies for the delay in responding -- I had some outgoing e-mail
issues. I sent an e-mail similar to this one on Saturday, but it appears
not to have gone out. So, from memory, I'll try to reproduce what I said.
I'm in Piedmont, so I might as well press forward, right? Austria is being
fickle about moving on Italy, but I may be able to swing him around in the
next five days. Meanwhile, I can grab two builds or swing down to Wes; I'm
leaning toward the more conservative approach, simply due to the
uncertainty of all this, but F Wes certainly has its advantages.
I would suggest you two decide on an amicable Bel / Hol division.
Obviously, I'd also like to see an English fleet in Belgium, but I'm
willing to listen to arguments for an army.
Where do you two proceed next turn? Germany, will you bounce Russia from
Sweden? What kind of builds can we expect?
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Hi Erik, good to hear from you again. Well if you will go after England then
I will surely bounce him in BEL. I either then pick up BEL or HOL. I would
then also build a fleet in KIE.
Russia is willing to help out against Englad and he is willing to move on
NWY fi I dont bounce him. He has his hands full down south.
You can pick up BEL next spring. Build and army and a fleet and I will
support you in. I dont fancy england in Belgium either. If its you at least
we have an alliance. Let me know how you get on with Austria.
Italy is weakened so he may as well join in with you to attack italy. I dont
see his problem, either he is with Turkey or not. I am guessing Turkey didnt
go it alone.
If you stay in PIE then I will also build in MUN and move on TYR if you
wish. England only gets one build, we will directly have two units on NTH
and KIE will be in SKA. He cant do both. So by fall we should be in ENG. You
may even be able to convoy to Wales. But if we go for him then I will
invlove russia (at least for norway). England cant fight all three of us.
I will prees EF as in EFG and play along until you make a definite decision.
Message from Germany to England and France
Well we are all back at our keyboards. I will support myself to HOL. I know
England wishes to get an army in BEL to convoy north next spring. Its a
matter of trust. But BEL will be a little isolated as I can dislodge it in
the spring if need be so it is worth the gamble.
I will build armies as mentioned before and push these east or maybe push
one to MUN if need be.
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
> Well we are all back at our keyboards. I will support myself to HOL. I
know
> England wishes to get an army in BEL to convoy north next spring. Its a
> matter of trust. But BEL will be a little isolated as I can dislodge it in
> the spring if need be so it is worth the gamble.
If everyone is agreed then I will do it. I think it is more elegant,
tactically, but I would not do it if I thought I would be alienating one or
the other of you, so just let me know if either of you gets cold feet & I
will use the fleet instead.
> I will build armies as mentioned before and push these east or maybe push
> one to MUN if need be.
I imagine I will build a F EDI and an A LVP/LON, though frankly I haven't
begun to think about it yet.
Ok, orders are going in.
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
One other thing - does this mean Tony that you are going to bounce Russia
from Sweden? It would make S'02 go more smoothly if the Russian fleet were
in BOT, that's for sure.
Ben
Message from Germany to France
If you want anti english moves agree to his press and mail me seperately.
If you want a fleet there (i do) then best you tell him it will look more
natural ;-)
Message from Germany to England and France
Yes it would mean me bouncing Sweden. I will wait to hear from France.
Message from Russia to all
Greetings all,
While I'm still technically on vacation, I'm back with net access again. I
have a few minutes to write press before we're out to run errands, so I
might not get to send all the press I'd like, but I'm generally available
again. Sorry for the delay.
--- Tzarface
Message from Germany to France
Any news yet? are we going after England? or are we going to try for the
EFG.
Do we really want england getting two builds? He will no doubt build fleets
and eventual;ly you will clash. I strongly suggest mao - eng. I will bounce
him in Holland and Belgium, one of which will bounce.
If you want to play really safe just take the two builds and build a fleet
in BRE, I will build one in KIE. By 1903 we will be in england. Let me know.
Message from England to France
Erik -
Forgive me writing off-Judge but the Judge is acting weird & I wanted to
get this to you. I will also send a copy via press & we will see if it
gets through.
Anyway Tony is claiming he still wants "confirmation" from you, though I'm
not sure exactly what you are supposed to be confirming that you haven't
confirmed already. Please when you get a chance send him a press, or an eg
group press, confirming your dedication to the efg triple, or something
like that.
Clearly part of his game is to ask for a neverending series of
"confirmations" so it can be your fault when he stabs you.
Looking forward to the Judge working again -
Ben
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
My apologies for not writing earlier, but I knew you were out of town and
thought I'd just get back to you on your return.
Here's the story: the move to Piedmont was part of a larger plan that,
for a variety of reasons, didn't materialize. Germany was supposed to
open strongly against you, and when it did so, England and I were
prepared to take advantage of his overextension and swoop in for the
kill. I couldn't tell you during the opening negotiations because we
needed Germany to push far enough in your direction to get him
overextended, and defensive moves on your part might have spoiled that.
There was no coordination with Austria; in fact, he was skeptical of
taking any action against Italy. If anything, I had suspected the Italy
would be coming west toward me as part of an AI alliance. As it turns
out, they're not in cahoots, but they also don't trust each other one
lick.
So now England and I are trying to figure out what to do about Germany,
who opened in the least expected (but also most likely, in retrospect)
way. I wouldn't worry too much about England headed north; that opening,
like mine to Italy, was a red herring. He may have already informed you
of this, for all I know. If we're really lucky, England and Germany will
bump heads in Holland or Belgium now and leave you and I in a situation
of advantage.
I have no idea what the move to Armenia was all about. I've asked Turkey,
but he doesn't like to reply with more than a sentence at a time.
Drop me a line when you get this and let me know where you're at. I'd
like to see if we can get on the same page with EG before I make final
plans with them.
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
Gentlemen:
My apologies for being quiet, but the break made me a little lazy.
I am going to go for the two builds and see if I can get something going
with Austria against Italy. He's still reluctant, but perhaps I can force
his hand.
So, to confirm, I'll be going for my two and expect both of you too, as
well.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
Sorry, I got lax over the break. I will send a confirmation shortly to
you and Germany.
Big question: do I do the Tyrolia move or not? We need to decide soon.
Your move is clear, but I am still not sure if Pie - Tyr or Pie - Mar is
better. Any thoughts now that we've had time for reflection? I need to
study the map. Maybe go for the two builds and support Tri - Pie.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
Sorry about the delay, as I said in the message to you and England. I
think Mao - Nth has merit, especially if you're willing to bounce him out
of Belgium and Holland. I think I may need to pull back from Italy,
though.
How does that sound?
Erik
Message from Germany to France
No problem, I will bounce him in BEL and Holland. As for pulling back from
PIE that is obviously your choice. As I will be getting two builds (fleet
and an army in MUN) then I could move to TYR next spring (leaving you to
build a fleet in MAR). But the choice is yours. For now I am quite happy
just going after england with you. With your fleet in ENG and an army build
in BRE you can convoy to wales in the spring. So pulling pressure off Italy
is understandable unless ofcourse you can sway Austria.Lets go for it.
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Big question: do I do the Tyrolia move or not? We need to decide soon.
> Your move is clear, but I am still not sure if Pie - Tyr or Pie - Mar is
> better. Any thoughts now that we've had time for reflection? I need to
> study the map. Maybe go for the two builds and support Tri - Pie.
For now let's say go to TYR. I just got a notice from Tony that he will be
bouncing me in BEL.
Not much we can do about it - I'll try to make it work.
Ben
Message from France to England
> For now let's say go to TYR. I just got a notice from Tony that he will
> be
> bouncing me in BEL.
>
Why did he tell you that he's bouncing you in Belgium? He's certainly been
looking for me to move to Nth in conjunction with that move, but I didn't
think he'd decided on it yet.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Why did he tell you that he's bouncing you in Belgium? He's
> certainly been
> looking for me to move to Nth in conjunction with that move,
> but I didn't
> think he'd decided on it yet.
He told me ahead of time because there's nothing I can do about it. If he
tells me ahead of time, at least he doesn't seem like such a jerk.
Erik, will you go to TYR and seize BUR as you'd proposed? It was a good
plan & I didn't forget it. . . Let me know if you would like to try
something else.
Ben
Message from France to England
I don't think there's an issue that we need Bur and Tyr -- that's pretty
clear now. The big question is simply, do I fake an additional attack
against Italy, get two builds, and head for Tyr / Bur in the spring, or do
we go for Tyr / Bur now?
Erik
Message from France to England
Tony:
Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
out now, screaming bloody murder.
Erik
Message from Russia to France
Thanks for the followup. As it turns out, I lied in my broadcast. I
was subsequently unavailable all weekend, and only just now got a
chance to check my mail.
I understand your logic about the opening. If you can get Germany to
open against me, especially with a friendly England, I can see how
that can't be passed up.
I haven't heard the warm fuzzies you've shared about England. FWIW,
Turkey is convinced he is going to put the army into Nwy and come
after me.
I'm on a short deadline here, without much time to respond to press,
so will keep this brief. I'll try to be online right before the
deadline if there's anything critical you want to pass along. (It's
not looking like I'm going to have much to pass along myself.)
--- Tzarface
Message from Master to all
Players,
Since mail to and from the judge has been running extremely slow over
the past several days, I'm extending the deadline.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from France to England
I think it's best to go for Tyr and Bur now. If I get two builds, I'll
have to build A Par and A Mar, and that's a sure tip-off anyway. Better to
get the position now.
Given that, can you bounce Germany in Holland and let him take Bel? Better
to have Ruhr unoccupied and unable to support Munich - Bur. I can then
move A Par - Pic and support you into Bel, forcing him into a guessing
game.
Also, maybe you should let Russia know that he's not in danger of a
northern assault right now. We might need F Swe for our cause.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
Please send (another) confirmation as a group press. Tony claims to be
waiting for it.
I'll write more later - family business right now.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Message from erik@spamcop.net as France to England in 'c2':
>
> Tony:
>
> Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
> out now, screaming bloody murder.
>
> Erik
Tut, tut. I am perfectly content to bounce him & I do not mind at all
getting one build as England in '01. Screaming bloody murder? Surely you
are being unfair. . .
On to the more important stuff:
> I think it's best to go for Tyr and Bur now. If I get two builds, I'll
> have to build A Par and A Mar, and that's a sure tip-off anyway. Better to
> get the position now.
I agree with this 100%.
> Given that, can you bounce Germany in Holland and let him take Bel? Better
> to have Ruhr unoccupied and unable to support Munich - Bur. I can then
> move A Par - Pic and support you into Bel, forcing him into a guessing
> game.
With the deadline extended I have time to think about this. I will get
back to you - I will do one or the other, probably bounce HOL as you
suggest.
> Also, maybe you should let Russia know that he's not in danger of a
> northern assault right now. We might need F Swe for our cause.
I am trying to cultivate Russia as an ally for us. We'll see how it goes.
What are you hearing from him?
Ben
Message from Italy to all
Folks....we have had more than enough time to put these bloody orders
in....
If you have wait set....get rid of it.
If you havent put your orders in yet......get with the program, its taken
19 days to play 1 season...and its been 13 days since Spring 01 processed,
this is not rocket science...noone has more than 4 units on the board.
rant off.
Message from England to France and Germany
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to
> Germany in 'c2':
>
> Tony -
> Did you still want to hear some kind of confirmation from
> France or are we
> set?
>
> Ben
>
> End of message.
This is from a few days ago. Please disregard.
Ben
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
This judge has been a little funky. I'm not sure everything has made its
way between us.
Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
out now, screaming bloody murder.
In any case, F Eng seems like the best plan. I can live with one build for
now. A Pie has to come back, given Austria's reticence.
Are we still pretending like we've got a triple, now that you've announced
your intention to deny England a build?
Erik
Message from France to England
> Tut, tut. I am perfectly content to bounce him & I do not mind at all
> getting one build as England in '01. Screaming bloody murder? Surely
> you
> are being unfair. . .
Whoopsie. I was fishing for a reaction from Germany. I figured it was
safer to say that than "Are you really planning on bouncing England? He's
perfectly okay with that." I wasn't sure what your approach was going to
be with him on that issue.
> > Also, maybe you should let Russia know that he's not in danger of a
> > northern assault right now. We might need F Swe for our cause.
> I am trying to cultivate Russia as an ally for us. We'll see how it
> goes.
> What are you hearing from him?
He's still worried that you're heading north. He's way behind, but I think
everybody's correspondence is a little out of whack from the judge delays.
He has no idea what's going with Turkey, so we can expect him to at least
cover south.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Thanks for the reply. Looks like we've got a little more time to catch up
here.
I am doing what I can to ensure that England doesn't come north after you.
I need him firmly entrenched against Tony, and I need Tony butting heads
with him.
Did Tony talk to you about going after England last week? I'm trying to
figure how much bull he's slinging in his mail to me.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
You there? Haven't heard much in a couple of days -- I think these
extended breaks have been grinding this game down a bit.
Given that, I will definitely be pulling back from Italy to focus on
England. Austria just isn't giving me the support that you are, so it
makes sense to work where I've got some help. MAO - Eng it is.
Of course, you'll have two builds to my one, but I think I can live with
the imparity for a season, especially given your block of England and the
advantage that fleet will give us.
You'd said that Russia had offered help against England -- given Turkey's
moves, do you really think this is likely?
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
Gents:
I'm going for two builds and holding onto Piedmont in an attempt to coerce
Turkey into assisting me. Just wanted to confirm with both of you. The
timing of press coming out of this judge has confused things a little, so
I think it might be best if you guys could drop a quick line outlining the
plans for next season, while you're at it.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
Okay, Tyr and Bur it is. Keep your fingers crossed. We'll both be down a
build compared to Germany, but I think we'll be in a good position -- and
maybe we can even get some help from Austria or Russia next season if they
Germany as a target of opportunity.
This game has already started to drag a little. Time to pick it back up.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
Woohoo! The Judge is back up!
> Okay, Tyr and Bur it is. Keep your fingers crossed.
Ok. :-I
Here's hoping.
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
Sorry about the long delay here. It seems that a few days ago,
everything that could go wrong did. Fortunately, I think that I've got
it all straightened out and the judge should be running better than
ever now. However, just to be sure, I'd like each of you to submit
press saying that you're not having any more trouble with the judge.
Once I see that from each of you, I'll remove wait and let the turn,
finally, process. The deadline is currently set for this Monday, so
it'll process then at the latest.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Germany to France
> This judge has been a little funky. I'm not sure everything has made its
way between us>
Hi Erik, this is the first time I have received anything from you for some
time. If you have sent more then I havent received it.
> Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
out now, screaming bloody murder.>
Well I told both of you in a joint press that I would be moving to Bel/Hol.
> In any case, F Eng seems like the best plan. I can live with one build for
now. A Pie has to come back, given Austria's reticence.>
I agree on the F ENG. It would give us the best chance for next year.
> Are we still pretending like we've got a triple, now that you've announced
your intention to deny England a build?>
Yes, he did seem to accept this. As you say the judge does seem to be a
little lost.
England is still convinced we are on a tripple, thats why the move to ENG
wil freak him out.
Message from Germany to France
Yes its been very quiet. I also think people havent been sending in press as
it doesnt seem to be going anywhere.
I have just received a bucket load in my in-box.
Good to hear you are onboard for the fight against England.
I will be bouncing him in Bel/Hol. No doubt he will go for Hol to bloack a
fleet build in KIE, I would. But i cant risk it so I will be moving on
Hol/Bel. He then only gets one build.
Russia is willing to help out where he can. If things work out well he will
build in STP(nc). He definitely doesnt want me to bounce him in Sweden.
Something I wont be doing, if he is unable to build in the north then he is
willing to move on NWY next year.
Message from Germany to England and France
Good to hear some news. As for next year, depending on the outcome of this
year I hope to be moving against Russia up north with England.
Down south I hope to be moving against Italy with France.
Message from Master to all
Players,
I've removed wait, since all seven players seem to be able to access
the judge. If any of you have wait set, please remove it, and maybe
we'll finally get this turn processed.
Greg, GM
C2
Austria: Army Budapest → Rumania
Austria: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Budapest → Rumania
Austria: Fleet Trieste SUPPORT Italian Army Apulia → Venice (*void*)
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Yorkshire → Holland
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea → Norway
England: Army Yorkshire → North Sea → Holland (*bounce*)
France: Army Gascony → Burgundy
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Spain (south coast)
France: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia
Germany: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT Russian Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → Sweden
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr → Belgium
Italy: Army Apulia → Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea CONVOY Army Apulia → Greece
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → Sweden
Russia: Army Moscow → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Rumania (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Fleet Sevastopol → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea
Turkey: Army Armenia → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Austrian Army Budapest → Rumania
|