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Message from England to France and Russia
Nick and the Prince,
I'm still here, but suddenly very, very busy. I'll ponder Nick's latest
suggestions, while contemplating the likelihood of Skag->Norway.
Ivy
Message from France to all
Sorry for my silence of late. I am in class W-F all day and only have
limited time at the computer. Last night I hurt my forearm/wrist area and
it was too painful to type. This morning, I cannot seem to get into my
usual e-mail. Hopefully that will be cleared up by tonight or even
possibly lunch time.
I will write when I can, meanwhile keep sending those love letters :-)
--Prince Boar
Message from Master to all
Extension at player request.
Doug
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
Neither of us made mention of it when the moves arrived, but I want to tell
you that by moving your rear fleet eastward you gave me great reassurance.
Thank you.
Nick asked you to comment on what we should do (meaning what should England
do) in Scandinavia. Please hold off replying if you will, for I am going
to prempt debate and simply announce my moves in a joint message to you and
Russia. I'll be the bad cop.
I am moving to both Sweden and Denmark. It denies Germany a refuge and
gives me a second build. If you take Rome, which I encourage, you too will
have a second build. While trying to remain even, I don't mind us being
one unit apart in strength.
Russia may, or may not, interpret my announcement as a sign of impending
attack. That is, in fact, what it is. I am fully committed to marching
west to east in tandom with you. I will make my announcement sound a
little defensive, noting that I need to be even with France. Also, I will
note that I will support Belgium with Holland, which has nothing better to
do. Whether Russia gets worried or not hardly seems to matter. What could
he do if I simply declared war?
It occurs to me that I have never seen a formal, public declaration of war
in Diplomacy. Do Diplomacy instructions still indicate that declaring war
is an option? I haven't seen a new boxed set in many years.
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
_________________________________________________________________
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Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
I was sorry to hear about your arm, and hope it
was nothing serious. Germany should end the year at
zero to two Centers, and will effectively cease to
being more than an annoyance once he disbands. This,
of course, raises the question of what happens next
year. Any ideas? Italy is obviously hoping that
England will attack you, and Ivy is somewhat
concerned that you might attack him, while I have to
be concerned that Ivy will come after me.
If you're willing to continue your attack on
Italy by moving Mun-Tyl next year, and allow Ivy to
move from Hol to Mun, and then on to Boh, we can
actually maintain this EFR alliance, and push
southeast to eliminate Italy and Turkey, I think.
Given their silence, it certainly seems an
appropriate course to me, but I am willing to
consider other options. Please write when you can,
and let me know what you're thinking.
Nick.
Message from France to Italy
Roberto:
I apologize for the delay in writing. I had a carpal
tunnel pain. It hurt to do anything and typing was out
of the question. But it is better today.
I am sorry that I cannot bounce with you in Venice. I
promised to hit Tyrolia and it is something that I cannot
back out of. I know that this doubles Germany's chance
to sneak into one of your centers. I apologize for that.
Given that Germany must worry that I might go for
Venice, that one is probably already safe from him.
If your request was also partially to defend Venice from
me, I will understand if that is the location that you
will choose to cover. All I can say is that I will not
move there, the rest is up to you. I of course do not
want to know which center you will choose to cover, just
in case you guess wrongly.
I could hint to Germany that I was going for Venice if
that would help you. But there is a chance that he would
then move there just to spite me. Whom do you think that
he wants to punish more? It is probably best that I just
say nothing to him; but if you disagree, please let me
know.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I am getting to some old messages.
I guess that if we had been working closely together from
the beginning it may have set off all sort of alarms.
The key would have been to disguise it as long as
possible and keep others guessing that at any time we
might side with Italy or Russia and stab the other. But
against really good players, I admit that would have been
difficult. But in theory you and I are really good
players, so we might have been able to pull it off ;-)
:-)
>Do you mean that you don't wake up screaming and
>sweating in the middle of the night because you dreamt
>that all your units have vanished?
My nightmares usually consist of massive amounts of
foreign armies wandering around France. :-)
>Neither of us made mention of it when the moves arrived,
>but I want to tell you that by moving your rear fleet
>eastward you gave me great reassurance.
>Thank you.
You are welcome. I admit that I debated holding one
fleet back as defense. But I decided that I have come
this far with blind trust, why not cover both eyes and
rush headlong into the fire. :-)
>simply announce my moves in a joint message
I did not see this. Is it still in process or did
something go wrong?
I will simply tell Nick that I will not get involved in
the discussion, wishing to stay neutral.
>Do Diplomacy instructions still indicate that declaring
>war is an option?
The wonderful thing about this game is that you can do
whatever you like, even broadcast discussions on
philosophy, if you so choose. :-) Of course if I saw
someone make such a public declaration, I would immediate
wonder if it was just a ruse. I have seen them in anger,
and I have seen them trying to hide and alliance
(especially RT).
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>I would welcome the Dauphin's (theoretically)
>disinterested opinion.
I think that it is best to stay out of it openly. There
is too much going on between you and Ivy jockeying for
the future.
If you think that Fredd is smart enough to see Skag ->
Norway, then you might want to let him know that you see
it too, as does Ivy. He is less likely to try it if he
knows he will not be tricking anyone. It will just be a
1-in-3 chance (England can cover two of Swe, Den, Nor).
But if he has not seen it, you hurt yourself by putting
it into his head.
You can promise him something for next year if he does
bounce England from Den or Swe? But is he more inclined
to want to help you or spite you? He could also let it
get back to Ivy? It is all very tricky and I trust that
you will figure something out. I think that I would
prefer that you not mention this conversation to Ivy, by
the way. I want to appear as neutral as possible. But I
*do* want you to get a build! If you end up with one
stored for the future, that is even better.
>I was sorry to hear about your arm, and hope it
>was nothing serious.
It was a carpal tunnel pain. It hurt to do anything and
typing was out of the question. Luckily it is gone now.
Thank you for asking.
>This, of course, raises the question of what happens
>next year. Any ideas?
A very provocative question. But an important one
nonetheless. Obviously ERF cannot stick together
indefinitely. Sure, we could get England into Germany
(probably giving you more of Scandinavia) and keep things
going for a while. But that probably will not last long.
We both need to be very careful.
>Italy is obviously hoping that
>England will attack you, and Ivy is somewhat
>concerned that you might attack him, while I have to
>be concerned that Ivy will come after me.
All real possibilities. England and I are not really set
up to attack one another. It could happen, but it would
be very long and slow. I would say that the only way
that I would take on this task is if he was at war with
you and you were a viable threat to him.
What are your thoughts and plans for the future? Are
they as fuzzy as mine are?
--Xavier
Message from France to Turkey
Ali:
I will do as much as I can this year. Next year I will
be able to do even more, as I will not need to walk so
carefully.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> But in theory you and I are really good
>players, so we might have been able to pull it off ;-)
>:-)
Yes, I see the wink and smile. In all seriousness, I doubt that we are any
better than the others in this game, with perhaps one or two
exceptions. In any one game so much luck is involved. Had not a certain
chance event occurred in an early round, I probably would not have been
here. And in another game I saw a truly first-rate player eliminated
because he happened to be on the wrong side of the continent.
> >simply announce my moves in a joint message
>I did not see this. Is it still in process or did
>something go wrong?
No, nothing went wrong. When I saw the postponement of the deadline, I
simply took a Diplomacy breather. After 9:00 this morning I should be able
to get out the message to you and Nick.
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
> >I would welcome the Dauphin's (theoretically)
> >disinterested opinion.
>I think that it is best to stay out of it openly.
I understand that, but I would still welcome the
Dauphin's sense of what Fredd (and Ivy) will do.
>is he more inclined to want to help you or spite you?
I expect that his most likely action will be to
spite me. From the moment I ordered Mos-StP in S'01,
he seemed too focus entirely too much attention on me.
> >This, of course, raises the question of what happens
> >next year. Any ideas?
>A very provocative question. But an important one
>nonetheless. Obviously ERF cannot stick together
>indefinitely. Sure, we could get England into Germany and keep things
>going for a while. But that probably will not last long.
I don't know. Ivy's behavior so far has
suggested powerful care-bear tendencies. (I'm not
a stabber by nature, but realistically, Ivy should
have stabbed Fredd much earlier than he did.) So,
if you give him a path to continued growth, (Ruh,
Mun) we could have a decent shot at eliminating
Italy and Turkey before trying to get down to a
Solo or 2-way.
> We both need to be very careful.
Definitely.
>What are your thoughts and plans for the future? Are they as fuzzy as mine
>are?
Assuming I don't get stabbed this Fall, or in '08-'09,
I will have built three Armies, and perhaps one Fleet,
so attacking England isn't really a practical option.
My hope is to hold the EFR coalition together and grow
to be the dominant Power in the East. It still seems
unlikely that I'll manage to do that, though.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to France and Russia
Gentlemen and fellow Hunaphobes,
Sorry for the 24 hour silence, but I took some time off when I saw the
deadline extension. Also, I've been worrying a little. Please don't take
offense at my worrying. It's not personal, and I am sure that we all go
through the exercise of asking ourselves, "what could go wrong?"
What if the Prince takes Belgium instead of Munich? Then I build
zero. What if the Prince takes Rome, in addition to Naples and presumably
Munich? Then he builds two units and goes two up on me. He could even try
for Belgium, Venice, Rome and Naples -- all four -- and build three to my
zero.
This situation is different from that of 1905 when I willingly gave
Belgium to my enemy France and when, shortly thereafter, the Prince left
both Paris and Brest undefended next to my units. Back then we took great
risks in order to save the game from Italy.
This time, I just don't see any need to take a risk. For starters,
Holland will defend Belgium. It has nothing better to do anyway. Also,
I've decided to block Germany from both Sweden and Denmark. As indicated
earlier, this dooms Germany if he makes expected moves. Yes, it also gives
me a second build -- at Germany's expense. But France will get one or two
builds, and this permits me to keep pace. That's important to me.
The only risk whatsoever is that Germany might try Skag->Norway. This
would definitely hurt Nick, but I really, really, really think this has
almost no chance of occurring. Skag->Norway would be pointedly
anti-Russian, and Fredd has given every indication of favoring Russia as he
goes down. He hasn't even written to me in a long time. I'll put money on
Skag->Swe.
Cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
I found it hard to strike the right tone in that joint message. Everything
was intended to mask and/or justify my moves to Sweden and Denmark, one of
which will succeed. What I fear is not Russian objections, but endless
messages from Nick that try to persuade me to change my mind. He is a very
determined negotiator.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and France
Gentlemen,
>Message from England to Russia and France in 'titleist':
>
>I've been worrying a little. What if the Prince takes Belgium instead of
>Munich? Then I build zero.
Yes, but we'd also be left with a two or
three Center Germany, and France would be firmly
established as a target for all of us. It seems
foolish and therefore unlikely. The three of us
are working well together, and it would be unwise
to dissolve that partnership while Italy and Turkey
are able to regroup.
>This time, I just don't see any need to take a risk. Holland will defend
>Belgium.
That's your choice to make, of course, but
Hol-Ruh does position you to push toward Italy if
we continue to cooperate.
>I've decided to block Germany from both Sweden and Denmark. As indicated
>earlier, this dooms Germany if he makes expected moves. Yes, it also gives
>me a second build -- at Germany's expense.
Umm, no, it's at MY expense, and it could easily
become three builds for you, and none for me. Don't
try to set up a stab of me as defense against France,
Ivy, we're all to accomplished to fall for it. If you
want to play safe in Belgium, that's your concern, but
moving to Sweden and Denmark without my permission is
NOT the act of an ally!
>The only risk is that Germany might try Ska->Nwy. but I think this has
>almost no chance of occurring. Fredd has given every indication of
>favoring Russia as he goes down. He hasn't even written to me in a long
>time. I'll put money on Skag->Swe.
I told Fredd that I wouldn't support an attack
on Kiel if he disbanded War and GoB, and while I
don't know if that influenced his disbands, I doubt
that he's pleased that I took Kiel, and will take
Berlin this Fall. Given that I could well end up
taking War, Kie, and Ber from him this year, he has
little, if any, reason to favor me. Indeed, his
actions throughout this game have been largely
anti-Russian. You're welcome to put money on
Ska-Swe, but don't bet my Centers, Ivy. ;^)
Will Fredd come up with Ska-Nwy, Sil-Boh on
his own? That's hard to say, but he has made some
clever moves in the past, and even if he doesn't
think of it himself, someone could leak those moves
to him. I'm sure you'd apologize, but I'd rather
have the builds than your apologies. 8-)
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> Don't try to set up a stab of me as defense against France,
>Ivy, we're all to accomplished to fall for it.
Gee, it worked in other games. 8-(
In fairness to Nick, he also sent a private note in which he indicated that
the moves to Sweden and Denmark would be OK as long as they were
accompanied by a stab of France: Hol->Bel, Bel->Channel, etc. That would
be a puny stab compared to what was available earlier.
I am attacking Sweden and Denmark, as I indicated to you, followed by more
eastward movement next year.
Have you decided what you will do with Rome? I have not heard from Roberto
in ages.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I will attempt to catch up.
>endless messages from Nick that try to persuade me to
>change my mind.
So how has that been going? I was going to tease you
that I would write him and egg him on. But I am sure
that there is no need for that. And I am sure that part
of his persuasive technique is to try to direct you
towards France. So in any notes to him I will just wish
him luck, basically stay out of it. I will try to sick
him on Germany. If he wastes his time trying to trick
Germany into doing what he wants, that gives you a
breather. At a minimum, it annoys Fredd :-)
>Gee, it worked in other games. 8-(
Yes, I have found in this tournament that trying to be
tricky and cute can be very dangerous. The players are
less likely to fall for it. I am sure that you will calm
him down.
>In fairness to Nick, he also sent a private note in
>which he indicated that the moves to Sweden and Denmark
>would be OK as long as they were accompanied by a stab
>of France: Hol->Bel, Bel->Channel, etc. That would
>be a puny stab compared to what was available earlier.
Yes, pretty weak stab. This is the beauty of our current
position. A stab would be so fruitless that it makes it
not worth trying. Hence, we have a more stable alliance.
But of course you know that the effectiveness of the stab
is not what matters to Nick. It is the fact that you
will have betrayed me. This will cause a war between us
which will draw many of your resources. He may not like
that this helps Italy grow, but he would like that you
would may leave him alone or have your backside exposed
to him.
>I am attacking Sweden and Denmark, as I indicated to you
Good. But you did not mention the fact that you will
not be moving to the Channel. Can you confirm that you
will not? It is good to get these things out in the open
and not assume. :-)
>Have you decided what you will do with Rome?
I have to take it so that Roberto will not build. But I
will only gain two centers, just like you. I know that I
have one more unit. But look how far away from home most
of my units are. Paul Windsor would say that is good. I
say that is also dangerous :-)
--Prince Boar
PS: My orders have been in since Friday morning, without
wait.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
> That was a pretty bold statement made by England! How
> are you taking it? Not much you can do about it but try
> to talk him out of it and hope for the best. It does add
> strength to my suggestion that we both be careful. My
> plans involve being prepared. Perhaps yours should as
> well.
Well, I did suggest that move right after the Spring Results
came through, as a way to eliminate Germany this year, but
further thought made it seem unnecessarily risky. Ivy accepted
my admonition that moving Nth-Den, Nwy-Swe without my
consent was not the act of an ally, and I've since made it clear
to him that I think I have more cause to worry about Germany,
than he does about you.
> If you cannot convince Ivy, then you may have to attempt
> to talk or trick Germany into moving to Sweden or
> Denmark.
Ska-Swe is actually his most likely move, I think, but I'd
rather see me get two builds, and have to save one for next
year, than see Ivy get two.
Nick.
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>So how has that been going?
I owe Nick a note, but will probably delay until this evening or early
morning. This is the part of Diplomacy that is no fun whatsoever -- being
required to lie to someone you respect. I know the likelihood is small,
but what if Russia and Germany combined at this stage? That would be most
inconvenient. They could keep me out of Sweden/Denmark and you out of
Germany. So in response to Russia's inquiry I will say that I am not
aiming for Sweden/Denmark. I will also say that I am not attacking you,
for with a Germany that is still alive I will have something else to keep
me busy next year. I think that will be more believable than telling
Russia that I am following his wishes and am attacking you with an attack
that anyone can see would be weak and nonproductive.
> >I am attacking Sweden and Denmark, as I indicated to you
>Good. But you did not mention the fact that you will
>not be moving to the Channel. Can you confirm that you
>will not? It is good to get these things out in the open
>and not assume. :-)
I am not moving to the Cahnnel. Hmmm. Neither am I moving to the Channel.
We should have 17 units after this year. That's a milestone worth noting.
The Steelers play Tampa Bay today, then Tennessee and Baltimore. We will
soon know if they are any good at all.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from England to France and Russia
Gentlemen,
Envoys from the tsarist realm have made a persuasive case for letting the
German live, albeit barely, for one more year. Germany can have his choice
of Denmark or Sweden with Nick guaranteed to keep the other. Thus, Norway
will hold, but I will order North Sea->Skag to follow on the heels of the
German fleet. We can sink it next year.
Ivy Wingo
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
It occurred to me yesterday morning (note the timing) that I should propose
the following to you. When we are at the point of, say, 15 units each, we
agree that the winner should be you if the Packers have a better record
than the Steelers and me if the Steelers have the better record. Cute
perhaps, but
I knew that would be a rather stupid agreement on my part.
Now I am not so sure.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and France
Ivy Wrote, >
>Envoys from the tsarist realm have made a persuasive case for letting the
>German live, albeit barely, Thus, Norway will hold, but I will order North
>Sea->Skag to follow on the heels of the
>German fleet. We can sink it next year.
My thanks. I would, of course, welcome the
end of German military strength, but I do not feel
that I can afford to sacrifice Russian growth at
this point to accomplish that worthwhile goal.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
Whew, one crisis averted. I can't see Ivy
agreeing not order attack Swe and Den, and then
doing so. It would gain him nothing, so I am
confident he will issue the stated orders.
If I might ask, what are your plans in the
Med? We have the potential to actively work
together there as early as next year, if things
go as planned.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I agree that we have a chance to work together next year
in the Mediterranean. I prefer to wait until then before
talking too much about my plans. Bascially I am going
slow to keep Ivy (and perhaps you) happy.
After this fall, and when we find out for sure if both of
us has averted our potential crisis with Ivy, we can
begin to really discuss the future.
I am anxious to do so, but feel that it is best to keep
my cards close to the vest this season.
I do wish you luck and truly hope that you do get that
build!
--Xavier
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I would have jumped at your Packer-Steeler bet. I am
glad that I had not choice to do so. :-) Of course the
Packers have had a rough 3 games. TB, Bal, Min (IN MIN).
Things should get more reasonable from here. I think
that you mentioned that Pit has things challenging for a
while. So in 3 more weeks we will see who has the best
records. GB has their bye this week.
As for the game, I am just waiting for the ineviatable
late message and then the delay until the orders process.
:-) I am sure that Nick was happy with your message.
Unfortunately it was necessary. I may have to deliver a
similar one to Italy next year. Although he has not
written in a long while, so maybe it will not be
required.
--Prince Boar
Our motto: 17!
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>I agree that we have a chance to work together next year
>in the Mediterranean. I prefer to wait until then before
>talking too much about my plans. Bascially I am going
>slow to keep Ivy (and perhaps you) happy.
Understood. I think that going slow in terms of growth,
is probably best. Nap-Apu, TyS-Ion, Ion-Adr, Tus-Rom
has potential, though... ;^}
>I do wish you luck and truly hope that you do get that
>build!
Any word from Fredd, Roberto, or Ali?
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>Any word from Fredd, Roberto, or Ali?
No, No, and No. :-)
Roger
Message from Russia to Master and France
Doug, and Roger,
I don't know how you want to handle this, but I
figured that I should bring it to your attention.
( I also don't know how I've managed to avoid it
so far. ;^} )
Russia in 'titleist'
---------------------------------------------------
>Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>Nick:
>
> >Any word from Fredd, Roberto, or Ali?
>No, No, and No. :-)
>
>Roger
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> I am sure that Nick was happy with your message.
>Unfortunately it was necessary. I may have to deliver a
>similar one to Italy next year.
Uh, you mean that Roberto hasn't gotten a wee bit suspicious of you yet?
>Our motto: 17!
After all that I have put into this tournament, two long years now, I would
be more than happy with a 17-17 handshake.
Ivy.
Message from Master to France and Russia
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>Doug, and Roger,
>I don't know how you want to handle this, but I figured that I should
>bring it to your attention. ( I also don't know how I've managed to
>avoid it so far. ;^} )
Play on. Keep all communication through the Judge (even in the event
of a Judge outage).
I hate "anonymous" games. :-)
Doug
Message from Russia to Master and France
>Message from Master to France and Russia in 'titleist':
>
>I hate "anonymous" games. :-)
Which Power insisted on Gunboat? We could eliminate him,
if we haven't already, and then make it non-gunboat. ;^}
Nick. (Nick, keep signing them "Nick"!)
Message from France to Master and Russia
>>Roger
Ack ack ack! Darn it!
I have almost done that dozens of times and then caught
it and changed the name. I was in too much of a hurry.
There is a good chance that you already suspected;
although I have tried very hard to hide it.
Sorry for messing up.
France
Message from Russia to France
>Message from France to Master and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> >>Roger
>Ack ack ack! Darn it!
>
>There is a good chance that you already suspected;
>although I have tried very hard to hide it.
Nick nods, 'Yes, it was pretty clear to me that you
were playing England or France.'
>Sorry for messing up.
It's nearly impossible to avoid. On a couple of
occasions, I've either sent a message too fast, and
left off the "Endpress/Signoff", or mis-typed them,
and sent out ISP/Email program info that could have
revealed me to whomever I sent the message to.
(stop and think... 8-)
Nick.
England: Fleet Belgium HOLD
England: Fleet Edinburgh → Norwegian Sea
England: Army Holland SUPPORT Fleet Belgium
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Yorkshire → Denmark
England: Fleet Norway → Sweden (*bounce*)
England: Army Yorkshire → North Sea → Denmark
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Ruhr → Munich
France: Fleet Ionian Sea → Adriatic Sea
France: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea
France: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia (*bounce*)
France: Army Ruhr → Munich
France: Fleet Tuscany → Rome
France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Ionian Sea
Germany: Army Berlin → Prussia (*bounce, destroyed*)
Germany: Army Silesia → Warsaw (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Skagerrak → Sweden (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Italian Army Trieste → Venice (*void*)
Italy: Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Galicia → Rumania
Italy: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Smyrna (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Galicia → Rumania
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Rumania → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Trieste → Vienna
Russia: Fleet Kiel SUPPORT Army Prussia → Berlin
Russia: Army Prussia → Berlin
Russia: Army Warsaw → Silesia (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Ankara SUPPORT Fleet Smyrna
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Bulgaria HOLD (*destroyed*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Sevastopol → Moscow
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna HOLD
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