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Message from France to Russia
Very well.
Message from Russia to France
> Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
>
> Very well.
Sorry, Roger, but you're at 15 Centers, if I let you set the terms for our
cooperation, you'll end up at 18. (You almost certainly will anyway, but
at least this way the Bolsheviks can't shoot me for treason.) You can
take Vie and Bud this year, and if you choose too, let me take Ankara.
If you move Boh and Tyl away from Mun, Ivy can keep Roberto from
taking Kiel, and we'll have him reduced to one Center, and then next
year, Ivy and I can eliminate him. It's a worthwhile goal, please consider
it.
Nick.
Message [from Russia] to all
Oh Joy, Oh Rapture! It's EoY Time, Again!
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
While I am taking Bud and Vie, how do I defend France and
all my other centers from you? I would need a workable
plan for Spring that allows all this to happen in the
fall. Unless your agreeing to surround all the Italian
retreats?
We will have plenty of time to reflect on it.
--King Roger XIII
Message from Russia to France
Roger,
>While I am taking Bud and Vie, how do I defend France and all my other
>centers from you?
If you need help defending France from me, you do
not belong in this game, Roger. ;^} Will you
lose a Center or two to me as you take Bud and
Vie? Probably. Will I lose a Center or two to
Italy? Almost certainly.
>I would need a workable plan for Spring that allows all this to happen in
>the fall.
Tyl S Boh-Vie, Tri S Rum-Bud, Alb-Ser, Ukr-Gal
destroys both Italian Armies.
Nick.
Message from Master to all
I'm moving deadline way out, since Italy is going under the knife
to get that pitching arm fixed once and for all. When he's ready to
type at full speed, he'll give me an email and I'll move the deadline
back in.
Until then, everyone just sit tight. Thanks!
Get well soon, Ken,
Doug
masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
for game 'titleist' to Sat Mar 09 2002 23:30:00 -0500.
Grace period deadline advanced to Tue Mar 12 2002 23:30:00 -0500.
Message from Russia to all
>Broadcast message from masseyd@btv.ibm.com
>I'm moving deadline way out, since Italy is going under the knife
>Get well soon, Ken,
Good luck. I hope the surgery is successful, and
without complications.
Eric.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>Tyl S Boh-Vie, Tri S Rum-Bud, Alb-Ser, Ukr-Gal
>destroys both Italian Armies.
Toss in Bul -> Ser and Ruh -> Kie and I would consider
it.
I expect that in the fall you would take one of Serbia or
Rumania. I want to end up with at least 16 centers
though. 17 is not necessary.
We can discuss this casually with Ivy while we wait or
just wait until Ken comes back. I leave that up to you.
--King Roger XIII
Message from France to England, Italy, and Russia
It is clear that no one is really enjoying this game
anymore. Therefore I am setting draw.
Regards,
Roger
Message from Russia to France
Roger,
> >Tyl S Boh-Vie, Tri S Rum-Bud, Alb-Ser, Ukr-Gal
> >destroys both Italian Armies.
>Toss in Bul -> Ser and Ruh -> Kie and I would consider
>it.
I'll consider Bul-Ser, but I'm not at liberty to
promise Ruh-Kie. Other than Ivy's expression of
displeasure over Vie S Gal-Bud, he has not raised
the Italian question (or written, for that matter).
>I expect that in the fall you would take one of Serbia or
>Rumania. I want to end up with at least 16 centers
>though. 17 is not necessary.
Given that I have no way to stop Smy S Bla-Ank, 16
seems certain unless I take Ser AND Rum.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I thought that you were insisting on taking Ankara?
I know that you cannot promise the move to Ruhr. But Ivy
would have to be convinced of it. That is the only way
to eliminate Italy in one year. He can cover Ruhr from
Belgium and Belgium from the North Sea.
It is a moot point I guess if you and Ivy vote for the
draw. The only one that I am not certain of is you.
--King Roger XIII
Message from England to France, Italy, and Russia
I have set draw.
Allen/Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Roger,
>I thought that you were insisting on taking Ankara?
Well, yeah, but short of Arm-Ank, Mos-Sev, Sev-Arm,
how would I defend it? New ideas, (destroying Vie
and Bud), change old plans.
>I know that you cannot promise the move to Ruhr. But Ivy
>would have to be convinced of it. That is the only way
>to eliminate Italy in one year. He can cover Ruhr from
>Belgium and Belgium from the North Sea.
And MAO-ECh, Bur S Pic-Bel takes Bel for you. I
don't see Ivy agreeing to it, and I don't see that
it is necessary, either. You and I can destroy
Italy's Austrian Armies this year, and England and
I can destroy A Ber next year without undue risk.
>It is a moot point I guess if you and Ivy vote for the
>draw. The only one that I am not certain of is you.
I haven't heard Ivy's, opinion, yet. From an
academic perspective, it seems a shame to call the
game a four-way, when four turns will give us a
three-way, but the fatigue is outweighing academic
considerations, at this point.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
What's your opinion of Roger's draw proposal?
Sincere? Or, an effort to paint me as the bad guy,
and get Italy to throw France the game? Roger and
I have developed a fairly low-risk plan that
destroys both Italian Armies in Austria this Spring,
and you and I ought to be able to dislodge A Ber
in 1915, if you're interested. I can forward you
the plan, if you're interested. I haven't carefully
analyzed the, 'What if Roger does something else?'
possibilities of the plan, yet, but it does seem
pretty safe.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>What's your opinion of Roger's draw proposal?
>Sincere? Or, an effort to paint me as the bad guy,
>and get Italy to throw France the game?
I just entered "set draw" when I got your message. I had been looking
forward to several weeks of respite from titleist, but it looks like we
still have business to do.
I think the proposal is probably sincere. Roger almost certainly knows,
from my e-mail if from nowhere else, that it is impossible to make the ERI
situation any worse than it already is. You and I have both pointed out
that, even if Roger doesn't have a winning "position" (he actually may
now), he does have winning circumstances.
> Roger and
>I have developed a fairly low-risk plan that
>destroys both Italian Armies in Austria this Spring,
I didn't expect this. Who gets Ankara, Vienna, and Budapest?
What will England's position be like afterwards?
>and you and I ought to be able to dislodge A Ber
>in 1915, if you're interested.
This means abandoning the defense line against France. Munich would be his.
> I can forward you
>the plan, if you're interested.
I'm interested and worried. How can this be safe?
I'm also wondering how this proposal is compatible with Roger's draw offer.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>I think the proposal is probably sincere.
It seems odd that he would exchange a likely solo for
a four-way.
> >Roger and
> >I have developed a fairly low-risk plan that
> >destroys both Italian Armies in Austria this Spring,
>I didn't expect this. Who gets Ankara, Vienna, and Budapest?
Boh-Vie, Rum-Bud, Alb-Ser, Bla-Ank, Ukr-Gal, in the
Spring destroys both Italian Armies. I'd take Rum in
the Fall to leave France at 16.
>What will England's position be like afterwards?
Not much different from what it is now.
> >and you and I ought to be able to dislodge A Ber
> >in 1915, if you're interested.
>This means abandoning the defense line against France. Munich would > be
>his.
Nwy-Swe-Den, Fin-GoB-Bal in 1914, Mun S Bal-Ber,
Den-Kiel in the 1915 doesn't expose Munich very much.
There is some risk of Ber S Bur-Mun, but we may be
able to detail the plan to avoid that, if you're
interested in trying it.
>I'm interested and worried. How can this be safe?
As I say, I haven't looked at, "How can Roger use
this against us.", extensively, but if we trust
Roger to order according to plan, it seems achievable.
>I'm also wondering how this proposal is compatible with Roger's draw >
>offer.
Yes, he could be lying about setting draw, and planning
to forward this plan to Ken with the assertion that I'm
the hold out, trying to get Ken to support his solo.
That seems like a stretch, though.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
You wrote:
And MAO-ECh, Bur S Pic-Bel takes Bel for you. I
don't see Ivy agreeing to it, and I don't see that
it is necessary, either. You and I can destroy
Italy's Austrian Armies this year, and England and
I can destroy A Ber next year without undue risk.
I understand that. But I do not know if he will risk Ruh
or Belgium, or the Channel for that matter. On the other
hand, Ruh -> Bur s Bel&Mun takes Burgundy from me. There
would have to be some level of trust on both our sides
(E&F). I am sure that Allen and I could come up with
something reasonable. If we were going to do this, I
would want to just do it and get it over with.
Feel free to chat with Ivy about it. Include me if you
wish to do so.
--King Roger XIII
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I probably don't have time this evening to check out details of the
plan. If in the meantime you wish to call Roger's bluff and set draw and
say so publicly, that's OK with me.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England
Allen,
> I probably don't have time this evening to check out details of the
> plan. If in the meantime you wish to call Roger's bluff and set draw and
> say so publicly, that's OK with me.
Has Ken Set Draw? Granted it seems unlikely that he would refuse, but
I haven't seen an announcement from him, and I'd hate to Set Draw, have
it not go through, and have us come to the conclusion that Roger was
bluffing when in fact Ken was just offline.
Eric.
Message from Russia to France
Roger,
> There would have to be some level of trust on both our
> sides (E&F). I am sure that Allen and I could come up
> with something reasonable. If we were going to do this,
> I would want to just do it and get it over with.
I appreciate that, but I am hesitant to endorse opening an
18th Center to you, and trusting that you won't take it. 8-)
> Feel free to chat with Ivy about it. Include me if you
> wish to do so.
I ran the idea past Ivy, he's going to consider it when he
has a chance.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England, France, and Italy
> Message from France to England, Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
> It is clear that no one is really enjoying this game
> anymore. Therefore I am setting draw.
> Message from England to Russia, Italy and France in 'titleist':
> I have set draw.
I will set draw if I get confirmation that Italy has also done so.
Nick/Eric.
Message from England to France, Italy, and Russia
Friends,
I've decided that I would feel better if I didn't negotiate in
"titleist" until Ken returns and tell us that he active again.
Feel free to use my personal e-mail if you have unrelated matters
to discuss -- for example, the Steelers, or why the sea is boiling hot and
whether pigs have wings.
Ivy/Allen
Message from France to England, Italy, and Russia
OK, I can live with Ivy's suggestion/decision. Anything
discussed now is only idle chatter anyway. It would all
have to be redone.
Until we meet again.
--King Roger XIII
Message from Russia to England and France
Note: This Reply does NOT include Italy:
> Message from England to France, Russia and Italy in 'titleist':
>
> I've decided that I would feel better if I didn't negotiate in
> "titleist" until Ken returns and tell us that he active again.
Just two points: 8-)
1) Ken rarely begins negotiation more than twelve hour before the
deadline, so this seems like an unreasonable restriction to place
yourself under.
2) Since we're planning his elimination, he's unlikely to contribute
anything useful to the discussion, even if he was available to reply.
Eric.
Message from England to France and Russia
>1) Ken rarely begins negotiation more than twelve hour before the
>deadline, so this seems like an unreasonable restriction to place
>yourself under.
Doug will know when Ken gets back, and he will set a new time limit that
permits ample time for negotiations. That will suffice, I'm sure.
Message from Russia to England, France, and Italy
I'm Setting Draw with this message.
Message from Russia to England and France
>Message from England to France and Russia in 'titleist':
>Doug will know when Ken gets back, and he will set
>a new time limit that permits ample time for negotiations. That will
>suffice, I'm sure.
Ok. It makes more sense to me to devote an hour a
day or so over that next however many days tuning
the plan, if we're going to use it, rather than
waiting and doing it at the last minute, but I've
become accustomed to people not understanding my
perspective in this game.
Eric.
Message [from Russia] to all
> Game 'titleist' has been declared a draw between
> England, France, Italy and Russia.
> Congratulations on a game well-played.
I will not comment on the irony of this last sentence.
Message from France to all
End of Game Summary
>Game 'titleist' has been declared a draw between
>England, France, Italy and
>Russia. Congratulations on a game well-played.
Congratulations to everyone.
I realize that observers may question me for setting
draw. I did it because no one was enjoying the game
anymore.
Yes, I could have won by trying to take advantage of the
personality conflicts. It was definitely a reasonable
possibility. I really didn't care enough about winning
to continue down that path. I won the second round game
partially that way (personality conflicts). It is not
really very enjoyable. There was also the chance that I
could have gotten beaten back down and someone else could
have won. The odds were not as high on that, but
Russian-Italian cooperation could have taken all of my
Balkan centers and I was one unit short on a stalemated
defense in France. But that was not the main reason for
my setting draw.
I guess that I won the tournament by being the largest
power in the draw, but that was not a motivation.
Besides everyone could have made a case to deserve to be
in the draw. Eric for his recovery from near death. Ken
for hanging on so long without any home centers. Allen
for managing, desperately and repeatedly, to piece
together enough of a pseudo-peace to deny me the victory.
I congratulate you all. I also liked and get along with
everyone. I am glad that I had a chance to get to know,
even it with Ken it was at the very end.
This is an unusual EOG statement for me. I usually write
very long ones. But I have written plenty of end of year
statements, so I will not go into all the details. I may
respond to other statements.
I wish everyone well and again thank Doug for running
both the game and the tournament.
Regards,
Roger Yonkoski
Aka Prince Xavier Boar and at times Le Dauphin
Message from Master to all
And so it ends!
Congratulations to Roger, Allen, Eric, and Ken.
And in particular, congratulations to Roger Yonkoski, who by rule takes
the crown as 2000-2002 Vermont Group Full Press Tournament Champion.
A special thank you to all seven players for their play and their
demeanor. The quality of this game was almost as high as I expected --
things seemed to deteriorate at the end a bit, but that shouldn't take
away from the overall quality that was displayed in the game.
A few game notes from your GM:
I was sure that Roger was toast early in the game. In reading his
partial press (which I'll make available as quickly as time permits),
I was amazed to see him wriggle off the hook. Ken grew quickly
while Roger held off Allen in the west.
I was sure by 1905 that, with Randy's elimination and Jeff's position
in the east, that Ken was going to be able to cruise to largest power.
I thought that the north would resolve itself into two larger powers
and Ken would be able to secure the largest spot and the title of
champion.
I was sure that in the endgame, Allen, Ken, and Eric would settle
their differences and beat Roger back, creating a longer battle for
supremacy amongst the four.
I was wrong, wrong, wrong. I've learned a *lot* by reading along and
I hope that others will do so as well. You've done two things well
in this game, if nothing else:
(1) Shown how to stop a leader (Italy)
(2) Shown how not to stop a leader (France)
I won't join into the debate of who did what and how things might
have been different and what was handed to whom -- others will do
so, I'm sure. I hope that this game will be the basis for much
discussion amongst the Diplomacy community as a whole, which was always
part of the point of the Tournament.
I suppose I should start thinking about the second tournament now.
I hope that the seven of you will be ready to cross swords again!
Doug
Message from France to all
>And in particular, congratulations to Roger Yonkoski,
>who by rule takes the crown as 2000-2002 Vermont Group
>Full Press Tournament Champion.
Thanks. When will my Trouphy arrive? I hope it is a big
one! How much space should I make available?
>(2) Shown how not to stop a leader (France)
I disagree a bit here. They managed to prevent my
soloing many times, despite their differences. It was
more of a an example of doing enough to prevent a
victory, while at the same time trying to improve one's
own relative position within the group. This type of
alliance is played out in real life all the time.
Roger
Message from Russia to all
Russian EoG in 'titleist':
What a frustrating game this has been. I was stabbed
by Austria and Turkey in F1901M and kept from building,
reduced to three Centers in 1902, attacked by Germany
in 1903, reduced to two Home Centers in 1905, and by
the end of 1906, I only had one Home Center left,
though I had managed to hang on to three Centers. I
finally got back to four Centers in 1907, but was
stabbed by Turkey so that I was left with one Home
Center and nowhere to build. The turnaround continued
in 1908 as I reached, two Home Centers, four Units,
and six Centers, but I lost those two unused builds in
1909. In 1910, I returned to my 1908 levels, but it
was not until 1911 that I managed to field more Units
than I started the game with, and regain a third Home
Center. By the end of 1912, I actually had eight
Units and Centers, and I began to consider the
possibility that I might actually be able to win the
tournament, and possibly even solo. Then, of course,
things went to hell, again. 8-) I was ill between
1912 Builds and the S1913M deadline, and was unable
to focus on planning moves or sending my normal volume
of Press, and England took my silence to mean I was
planning to stab, and sent me several letters saying
he was going to make "harmless" defensive moves, as a
result. I pulled back from Kiel-Den because he had
said he wanted to remain close in Center count, and
my pulling back opened Kiel and Holland to him, and I
moved my St. Petersburg Army to Norway to bounce the
move I thought he would make, and keep him from being
adjacent to StP. England was convinced this was a
stab, and nothing I said could convince him otherwise,
so I looked at the move as a possible stab to see if
there was more potential in those moves than I had
seen. I concluded that stabbing England at that
point was a losing proposition, and pulled back in
the Fall. By this point, my relationship with Italy
and England was so strained that one or both of them
seemed bound to take offense at something I had done
or said every turn, so when France proposed a
four-way, I reluctantly agreed even though with
minimal cooperation we could have eliminated Italy.
My thanks to Doug, for running this tournament, and
my congratulations to Roger, Allen, and Ken, for
surviving this hard-fought struggle, and especially
to Roger for winning the Tournament.
Eric Hunter/Czar Nicholas II of Russia in 'titleist'/
(Chancellor Hans-Peter Gurkun of Germany in 'splinter')
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