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Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>I viewed your moves last fall as siding with EI because
>your feared my solo. But I do not pretend to know all
>the negotiations and the pressure that you were under.
Ah, no, I was confident that you wouldn't stab me,
and that your solo was, therefore, not an immediate
threat. I could not convince IE of this, however,
and they made it clear that my active cooperation
against you was required if I wanted to continue.
>I did not want you to betray me because you felt that you had to. Keep me
>informed about things
Understood. Last Fall was difficult because Italy
was silent until the day of the deadline, and it
was not clear to me that I HAD to change until
very late in the evening. I didn't have time to
bring you up to speed.
>If I give Turkey Bul, then I will want Budapest. Is there a scenario where
>I can get Budapest?
That depends on what Italy decides to do.
>What will stop Serbia -> Bul s by Con?
Hmmm, will Italy sacrifice Ser and Bud to retake
Bul? Strategically, it actually makes sense, but
will he think of it? Also, given that Gre S Bul,
Bul&Aeg S Bla-Con is the obvious FT move set, will
he even suspect that Con S Ser-Bul would work?
>Italy was never intending to hand me
>all his centers. If Italy feels he is going to be eliminated, he may try
>to throw the game to me.
He's already made the threat. Will he carry it out?
I have to assume he'd try, so I want a few extra
Units around to prevent that from happening, and I'd
like to see F + I at 17 or 18, rather than 20.
>But when you openly attack him, I am willing to promise to not take it.
That's a bit more Carebear than I'm inclined to
believe is likely from someone with your JDPR. ;^}
>I am willing to try and delay your attack
Thanks. Why don't you go ahead and retreat, and
we'll see what EI have to say.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Friends,
I don't know when the next actual deadline will be, but I do want to toss
out some tentative moves for us to chew on. And, of course, Turkey (Ali)
is most definitely on the menu.
In the southeast, perhaps Italy will wish to be satisfied with the trade of
Bulgaria for Ankara, a real bargain in my book. If so, what about
Galicia supp Ser->Budapest
Romania->Serbia
Ankara & Smyrna supp Constantinople
Armenia->Sevastopol.
This kills Turkey and prevents any advance by Venice and Trieste into
Budapest. It is certain that either Ser->Budapest or Romania Serbia will
bounce, so Romania will not be open for Turkey. Constantinople probably
needs double protection, because Turkey HAS written to France. We can
expect one last dying attempt at coordination of moves from Turkey.
---------------------
Don't you just love that Russian fleet in Belgium? Be defiant, Nick!
Here's how to save it. Just cut all four surrounding armies:
Channel->Picardy
Munich->Burgundy
Yorkshire-Nth-Holland
Kiel->Ruhr.
That certainly saves Belgium, but at what risk?
If France goes for Belgium(most likely), he fails and nothing much
happens. We gain Munich for the year.
If France tries Ruhr supp Holland->Kiel (less likely), he succeeds, but
loses Holland. We still net one gain for the year.
If France tries Burgundy supp Ruhr->Munich (very unlikely) he does succeed,
and Munich has to go back to Berlin. If so, no supply centers have changed
hands for the year. However we start out next year with armies in Ruhr,
Denmark and Silesia, which is much better positionally than at the
beginning of this year. I doubt that France will do this, though, because
Munich is so easily defended from Silesia. Instead, Silesia might go to
Bohemia, for example, to put pressure on Vienna.
As I say,chew on it.
Ivy
Message from Russia to all
>The next phase of 'titleist' will be Movement for Fall of 1910.
>The deadline for orders will be Thu Nov 22 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
I'll be available for roughly the next 24 hours. I'm
willing to try to come to an agreement with my allies
and submit moves before I leave. Think we can do it?
If not, the Fall moves propably will not process
before 11/27.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
No need to rush these delicate negotiations. Tomorrow is my wife's birthday
plus I got a million things to do before the holidays. I'll be around to
chat but I'll only have a few minutes here and there until the weekend. I'd
say something constructive about our position but I haven't really studied
the results other than just reading them.
Idalia
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
>Message from England to Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
>Turkey (Ali) is most definitely on the menu
*chuckle*
>Galicia supp Ser->Budapest
>Romania->Serbia
>Ankara & Smyrna supp Constantinople
>Armenia->Sevastopol.
While I suppose the odds of Bla-Rum are very small,
the idea of moving out of Rum before Turkey disbands
makes me nervous. My other concern is with Arm-Sev.
We need a Unit in Syr to keep Turkey secure, and
Arm-Sev is a move in the wrong direction. Arm-Sev,
Rum-Sev seems safer to me.
>It is certain that either Ser->Bud or Rum-Ser will
>bounce, so Romania will not be open for Turkey.
Yes, if we can count on France to do what we expect
him to do...
>Constantinople probably needs double protection,
Agreed.
>Don't you just love that Russian fleet in Belgium? Be defiant, Nick!
Hell, no! I want to see it in Portugal! ( You told
me to be defiant. ;^} )
>Here's how to save it. Just cut all four surrounding armies:
>
>Channel->Picardy
>Munich->Burgundy
>Yorkshire-Nth-Holland
>Kiel->Ruhr.
Whoops! France sent me a letter saying that by
retreating to Ruhr, he had a lock on Bel. I sent
him this move set to prove him wrong. *blush*
Of course, since I told him about it he won't
expect us to use it, will he? Hmmm...
>As I say, chew on it.
I'll bring a conference map to my In-Laws.
Nick.
Message from France to all
Prince Boar will be indisposed for a couple of days.
Somehow his favorite dogs got into the library and chewed up several
books. Then one of them got violently ill. To tell you the truth, I
can understand getting sick on that philosophy stuff. Prince Boar when
learning about it became deathly pale and fretful. Really, it is just
some books and dogs, although he is fond of the dogs.
At any rate, you will get the pleasure of dealing with me for a few
days.
LE DAUPHIN
Message from Russia to France
Le Dauphin, Prince Xavier Boar, and Josephine,
Italy says he will be busy tomorrow, so orders will not be finalized
before the 27th. I will be available this evening, and tomorrow morning,
but will then be out of town until the evening of 11/26.
The Tsarina, Alexi and I wish you and your family a safe and happy
Thanksgiving, if we do not speak again before I leave.
In Friendship and Alliance,
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
The Boars thank you for your kind thoughts. We wish you
and the Tsarina, as well as your entire family, a
wonderful holiday. I am sure that my brother would have
said something more eloquent.
LE DAUPHIN
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
My brother's illness gives us an opportunity to talk
tactics without his messing it up. If I could stand the
incessant chatting required to be a diplomat, I would
handle it myself and avoid the middle man.
My first assumption is that Italy wants to eliminate that
Fleet in the Black Sea, so he can then focus forward.
Smy&Ank s Con, Arm -> Sev are givens. Now how to
maximize his defense of other areas. I doubt that he
will waste Rum -> Sev, unless you insist, and even then
maybe not. So Rum will be involved in the area around
Budapest. He will want help from Galicia, so you will
hopefully know enough that we can try to get Turkey a
center without revealing your assistance. France also
absolutely needs a build to defend Picardy. If I
continue to guess correctly, you will be suspected.
Italy's best best is probably to forget about Bulgaria
and defend Budapest. The way to do this is: Gal -> Vie,
Ser -> Tri, Rum -> Bud, which he figures will bounce.
Turkey and I could order
Tri -> SEr, Vie s Rum -> Bud, Bla -> Bum.
If you can talk England and Turkey into Gal -> War, Lvn
-> StP, Swed hold (so you can reclaim your home centers
faster, or you insist on Rum -> Sev, then we have many
more options). This would certainly accelerate yourself
as a major power and allow us to finish off Italy
faster. You could prevent me from winning. (Since you
refuse to accept that I would not take it. I understand
your sceptism. I felt that I had to mention it, but the
only way to prove it is to do so in the given situation.
Hopefully, we can avoid it from being needed.)
A lot depend on what Italy agrees to do. Another example
would be allowing Ser -> Bud, Tri -> Ser and give Turkey
Bul. We may also let you take Bud if that is the risk
Italy is taking. I could always make the wrong guess
(like Tri -> Ser, Vie s Rum -> Bud, but allows you to
take it. I keeps up your cover. :-)
It looks like we can only take Italy down to 6 units:
Sev, Ank, Con, Smy, and two of Rum/Ser/Bud. I sure wish
that it were fewer, but without your open cooperation, 6
is the best we can do, and even that is not guaranteed.
In the north, I worry that England is going for Picardy.
If this occurs, my defense will crumble and I will go
into the accelerate the English Victory so we can end
this thing mode. So we want to avoid that at all costs.
If you know the English plan, then I can risk the right
thing and save Picardy (with a lucky guess). This does
require that you risk Munich, for them to take Picardy,
so we could avoid the entire crisis by your refusing to
order mun -> bur, bel -> pic. Again there are so many
options that it is hard to consider get into details
until you know the plan.
The other issues is that I need Holland or Belgium so I
can build an Army to defend Picardy myself. Ultimately,
a second build will be required to defend the entire
front myself without forcing you to come out in your own
favor.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to all
The French Royal family will be going hunting for the
next couple of days. We will be chasing our namesake:
the wild boar. We hope that the excitement will bring
Prince Boar back to his old self.
Enjoy your holiday, whatever you may be up to. Any
messages, not that France gets many, will be dealt with
upon our return.
LE DAUPHIN
Message from Russia to Master
Doug,
> You have set 'wait' status so orders will not be processed
> before Thu Nov 22 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
I've got orders in, but I'd REALLY appreciate a deadline extension until
11/27/01 23:30.
Thanks,
Russia.
Message from Master to all
Extension!
Doug
masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
for game 'titleist' to Tue Nov 27 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Grace period deadline advanced to Fri Nov 30 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Message [from France] to all
For those who are interested, the Boardgame Player's Association is
running a diplomacy tournament starting in Jan 2002. It will be run by
Manus Hand on the DPjudge. For more information visit:
http://devel.diplom.org/manus/bpa/
Roger
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> >Here's how to save it. Just cut all four surrounding armies:
...
>Whoops! France sent me a letter saying that by
>retreating to Ruhr, he had a lock on Bel. I sent
>him this move set to prove him wrong. *blush*
You are being serious, aren't you?
Our family is having a nice Holiday. I hope yours is as well.
Ivy
Message from England to France, Italy, and Russia
To my friends in strife.
It's been a very good holiday with our family all here together. I've been
lucky at "hearts" each of the past two evenings.
Tomorrow (Sunday) we will be visiting my in-laws in Elmira, New York. Then
back to work on Monday. And back to war too, I suppose.
I hope all is going well with each of you.
Ivy Wingo
Message from France to all
GLORIOUS!
What a glorious hunt. The boar was a big as a horse and
twice as angry as bees when their hive is disturbed. He
nearly gutted two courtiers before we could bring him
down. Our success was still in doubt when someone
mentioned that the boar reminded them of me, in his
relentlessness; then my brother came to life. He took
the boar down with an intensity that I have never seen
before. Perhaps he has more spunk than I thought. At
any rate it is good to see him back to himself. He
should be able to pick back up the negotiations soon.
We roast the boar and served a huge feast with stuffing,
cranberry sauce, gravy, potatoes of all sorts. It was
worry of making it a yearly tradition. Perhaps we shall.
I hope your holiday was equally enjoyable.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I hope that your holiday was enjoyable. Welcome back.
As my other message will suggest, I will have limited
availability tonight. That may cause a problem if the
information is available at the last minute. I can catch
a couple hours sleep and then get back up to check my
mail just before the deadline (although it would be very
nice not to have to do that).
Anything you can do to speed the process up would be
appreciated.
For starters, if you insist on:
Rum -> Sev bouncing Arm -> Sev, and Sil&Kie s Mun hold
that would simplify things.
Let me know how things are progressing. I will be busy
during the day, but available off and on.
--Xavier
PS: England still is pushing me to give him the
lowlands. I pointed out that it is not all mine to give.
Message from France to Master, England, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Mes Amis:
I will likely not be available after dinner time tonight
because I must get up at 3AM tomorrow. I will then be
gone all day, so I ask Doug to extend the next deadline
by one day. If you want to send me any harassing or
obnoxious messages, please do so by dinner time tonight.
Otherwise I will not be able to enjoy them until late
Wednesday morning.
Thanks,
France
Message from Master to all
Extension untill Wednesday night.
Does *anyone* pronounce the "d" in Wednesday? I've only ever heard
it pronounced as "Wens-day" . . .
Doug
masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
for game 'titleist' to Wed Nov 28 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Grace period deadline advanced to Mon Dec 03 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
We better get our end of the line straightened out, because the Italian
moves are likely to be done at the last minute if past practice
holds. Also, anything we decide will affect Silesia.
I am willing to go along with cutting all four armies that surround Belguim
even though France knows about the possibility. On the other hand, I am
reluctant to move Channel->Picardy if we attempt Belgium->Holland, for I
fear that Channel->Picardy might actually succeed in that case. That
wouldn't be good.
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
> Message from France to Russia in 'titleist':
> For starters, if you insist on:
> Rum -> Sev bouncing Arm -> Sev, and Sil&Kie s Mun hold
> that would simplify things.
I'm certainly leaning toward these moves, but "insisting" is difficult
with Ivy, and nearly impossible with Roberto.
> Let me know how things are progressing. I will be busy
> during the day, but available off and on.
I just got back, and have two messages each from you and England
to respond to, and nothing from Italy.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Are you choosing to not write or are you taking advantage of the delay.
I guess that you could also be unavailable? I am guessing the second or
third, but do not like to make the wrong assumptions. I just want to
know where I stand. I shall not check again until Wed. Talk to you
then.
--Xavier
Message from Russia to France
> My first assumption is that Italy wants to eliminate that
> Fleet in the Black Sea, so he can then focus forward.
> Smy&Ank s Con, Arm -> Sev are givens.
Agreed.
> I doubt that he will waste Rum -> Sev, unless you insist,
It depends of how far forward he's thinking. He needs a
Unit in Syr to hold Smy, so bouncing Arm-Sev has strategic
value. I suggested the bounce in Sev early on for just this
reason. No response from Italy, yet.
> He will want help from Galicia, so you will hopefully
> know enough that we can try to get Turkey a center
> without revealing your assistance.
Yes, England suggested Gal S Ser-Bud, Rum-Ser, assuming
that you will attack Bud and/or Ser. I favor Gal-War, but
haven't suggested that, yet. 8-)
> A lot depend on what Italy agrees to do.
Yes, and his refusal to negotiate more than twelve hours
before the deadline makes planning difficult. 8-(
> In the north, I worry that England is going for Picardy.
> If this occurs, my defense will crumble and I will go
> into the accelerate the English Victory so we can end
> this thing mode. So we want to avoid that at all costs.
> If you know the English plan, then I can risk the right
> thing and save Picardy (with a lucky guess). This does
> require that you risk Munich, for them to take Picardy,
> so we could avoid the entire crisis by your refusing to
> order mun -> bur, bel -> pic. Again there are so many
> options that it is hard to consider get into details
> until you know the plan.
Yes, my inclination is certainly to hold in Mun, especially
since I can't be absolutely sure that England will move
Swe-Den as promised.
> The other issues is that I need Holland or Belgium so I
> can build an Army to defend Picardy myself.
It seems unlikely that Ivy and I will be able to defend Mun,
Kie, and Bel, and take Holland as well, so, this doesn't
seem like a problem.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> I am willing to go along with cutting all four armies that surround Bel
> even though France knows about the possibility. On the other hand,
> I am reluctant to move Channel->Picardy if we attempt Bel->Hol,
> for I fear that Channel->Picardy might actually succeed in that case.
France can attack Mun, Kie, or Bel, so I'm hesitant to order Mun-Bur,
Kie-Ruh, since Bur S Ruh-Mun, Hol-Kie would give him 15 Centers
and two builds. I think Sil S Mun, Mun S Kie, Kie & Nth S Bel-Hol
would be better.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>France can attack Mun, Kie, or Bel, so I'm hesitant to order Mun-Bur,
>Kie-Ruh, since Bur S Ruh-Mun, Hol-Kie would give him 15 Centers
>and two builds.
This describes the worst case scenerio, but this does not give France two
builds at all. With these moves I enter Holland from Yorkshire. For the
year then, France gets Kiel from me while I get Holland from him. You have
to retreat back to Berlin and France keeps Munich. No gain or loss of
centers for any of us. At least at the start of the next year we are in
Ruhr, Denmark, and Silesia, and now France has a mess on his hands.
>I think Sil S Mun, Mun S Kie, Kie & Nth S Bel-Hol
>would be better.
This time the worst case is France taking Belgium from Holland. Once again
the year is even, with you getting Munich from France and France getting
Belgium from you. Belgium, however, is destroyed. There is no retreat and
we lose a key unit. I think the aftermath leaves us in trouble. Assume
Piedmont->Tyrolia and look at the position.
I prefer the first worse-case situation to the second worst-case situation.
Of course, if we outguess France, we do better than either worst-case.
Please take one more look at this. Then I will happily go with whatever
you choose.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
I wrote to you this morning, but that letter has
not yet appeared, so I'm trying again to see if USIN
is down, or if the problem is with my home ISP. It
seems to me that France has to order Bre & Spa S MAO,
because he can't afford to lose MAO, and he can't
order Pic-Bel because he needs to control Pic to
hold MAO.
In the East, F Bul/SC can't Support Bla-Rum, so
an attack on Con seems likely. Idalia, how do you
want to handle the defense of Sev and Bud?
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> I prefer the first worse-case situation to the second worst-case
situation.
> Of course, if we outguess France, we do better than either worst-case.
Let's look at what we know:
1) If France doesn't order Bre & Spa S MAO, he risks losing MAO.
I don't think he can afford to take that risk, do you?
2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
3) His Army in Holland is somewhat isolated, and at risk.
4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel (assuming Ruh-Bel),
and Bur.
5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's hoping to
hold in the West and grow in the East. (Fleet Mar would have
locked down MAO.)
6) Italy doesn't write enough. (Sorry, had to be said. 8-)
Anything else that we know? Do you agree with 1-6? Based on what
we know, what should we do? I'll let this perk for a while, and get
back to you. Please let me know what you think.
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
I'm back, and ready to move forward. Idalia, we, or at least I, haven't
heard from you since the 20th. Have you had a chance to look at our
position, and the early ideas that Ivy and I suggested? What do you
think we should do in the Southeast?
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
I am in a brief interval between the evening meal and a journey to see
Harry Potter. I'll be back around 10:30 eastern and may have time for a
note then, but little time for analysis. Unfortunately, I still have some
work to do that I brought home with me.
As for Italy, expect the usual flurry of messages beginning the afternoon
prior to the deadline. Seems to be a pattern.
Ivy
>Let's look at what we know:
>
>1) If France doesn't order Bre & Spa S MAO, he risks losing MAO.
> I don't think he can afford to take that risk, do you?
>2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
>3) His Army in Holland is somewhat isolated, and at risk.
>4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel (assuming Ruh-Bel),
> and Bur.
>5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's hoping to
> hold in the West and grow in the East. (Fleet Mar would have
> locked down MAO.)
>6) Italy doesn't write enough. (Sorry, had to be said. 8-)
>
>Anything else that we know? Do you agree with 1-6? Based on what
>we know, what should we do? I'll let this perk for a while, and get
>back to you. Please let me know what you think.
>
>In Alliance,
>
>Nick.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
Still no word from Italy, and nothing meaningful from England. He's going
to see Harry Potter tonight, should be back by now, though.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
In addition to the 4-cut option, I could also go with
Nth supp Bel->Holland
Kiel supp Bel->Holland
Channel->Picardy
Silesia supp Munich
This has as its worst case the loss of Belgium and Kiel, which would be
offset by our gain of Holland and Munich for the year. I have to retreat
Kiel to Berlin. Nobody gains or loses net.
I worry about options that permit the permanent destruction of your fleet.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> In addition to the 4-cut option, I could also go with
>
> Nth supp Bel->Holland
> Kiel supp Bel->Holland
> Channel->Picardy
> Silesia supp Munich
>
> I worry about options that permit the permanent destruction of your fleet.
I think we need to decide on an approach and an objective in the West
and then make moves to accomplish that objective. As I see it we can
try to hold our position, perhaps trading Bel for Hol and Ruhr, and keep
France from advancing in the West while moving to lock down the
Eastern side of the stalemate line, or we can try to bring pressure against
France and move forward against him. Any set of moves we choose can
backfire on us and result in French gains, if France guesses what we have
planned.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I am back from my trip and ready to discuss the options.
Let me know what you think that we should do.
Now time to go read through the three dozen work e-mails.
Hopefully I can make frequent use of the delete button!
:-)
--Xavier
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>I am back from my trip and ready to discuss the options.
>Let me know what you think that we should do.
Still nothing from Italy, and England has floated
options, but hasn't come down in favor of anything.
I'm trying to get him to decide how he wants to
approach getting to the end-game (attacking you,
or defending our current holdings), but he seems
uninterested discussing anything beyond current
turn tactics.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>I think we need to decide on an approach and an objective in the West
>and then make moves to accomplish that objective. As I see it we can
>try to hold our position, perhaps trading Bel for Hol and Ruhr, and keep
>France from advancing in the West while moving to lock down the
>Eastern side of the stalemate line,
It's still dangerous if we get careless. I remain in the
stop-France-from-winning mode. Once we stalemate him, I think we will
discover that he has not stalemated us, and we will be able to begin taking
some units away from him. We all like France, but he is trying to win
outright. After he is 100% stopped, we can then think about how best to
end the game.
In line with what you said above, I hope we can get your fleet to Holland,
where it can be part of a solid defense line. First and foremost, that
requires saving the fleet.
> or we can try to bring pressure against
>France and move forward against him. Any set of moves we choose can
>backfire on us and result in French gains, if France guesses what we have
>planned.
He can gain on this fall move if he guesses correctly, but worst case
scenarios leave us unchanged for the year.
Can you think of any set of moves that are certain to save Belgium other
that the two that were last mentioned (cut all four armies; support
Belgium->Holland while cutting Picardy). Are we down to just those two
choices?
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
>1) If France doesn't order Bre & Spa S MAO, he risks losing MAO.
> I don't think he can afford to take that risk, do you?
>2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
>3) His Army in Holland is somewhat isolated, and at risk.
>4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel (assuming Ruh-Bel),
> and Bur.
>5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's hoping to
> hold in the West and grow in the East. (Fleet Mar would have
> locked down MAO.)
>6) Italy doesn't write enough. (Sorry, had to be said. 8-)
>
>Anything else that we know? Do you agree with 1-6?
I agree with all but #5. That army in Piedmont may be headed for Tyrolia,
where it can be used against Munich on the western front. If we make bad
moves (or just very bad guesses) we could lose your fleet and Munich. Then
France might be able to overrun the west with all those armies.
I reach the same conclusion. Let's not do anything to risk the fleet. We
can either save it in it's current position or try to get it to
Holland. We actually could afford the loss of Munich if we had a solid
line Holland-Kiel-Berlin-Silesia.
Ivy
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
We should come up with our best plan as if Italy was
going to never communicate. Then we can discuss further.
I think that this plan would be Liv -> Was s by Gal,
since his silence makes your nervous. Then we should
have Turkey go to Rumania and I will either support
Rumania to Budapest, or support myself there. It depends
on what our intuition tells us that Italy might do:
* ser -> bud s by rum
* ser -> tri, rum -> bud
* ser -> bud, rum -> bud
* ser/rum -> bul s by rum/ser&con
Hopefully Italy will request something from you
concerning Galicia. This would make it easier. But in
the mean time, we need a default plan. Right now Turkey
is ordered to Con. If we want to change that, we need to
give him some time.
--Xavier
Message from Italy to England and Russia
> What do you think we should do in the Southeast?
>
After some careful thought, I think the proper move to defend Bud/Ser is
Gal-Vie. I'll handle the rest.
I do have two questions that haven't been mentioned yet.
1) What am I supposed to do with Silesia?
2) I assume Lvn will move to Warsaw. Correct? That decision does effect my
moves.
Sorry for my delay in response. It's been busy (once again) around these
parts.
Idalia
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>I think that this plan would be Liv -> Was s by Gal,
>since his silence makes your nervous.
His silence frustrates me, but it doesn't really
make me nervous. My default orders are Lvn-StP,
Gal-War, and I expect them both to succeed.
>we should have Turkey go to Rumania
Certainly his best chance for survival, I think.
>I will either support Rumania to Budapest, or support myself there.
Vie S Rum-Bud, Tri S Rum-Ser, combined with Bla-Rum
has potential, I think. It looks like you're trying
to save Turkey, and it should work, too. 8-)
>* ser -> bud s by rum
>* ser -> tri, rum -> bud
>* ser -> bud, rum -> bud
>* ser/rum -> bul s by rum/ser&con
Gal S Ser-Bud, Rum-Ser was England's suggestion
before Thanksgiving, and it was a good one. Italy
hasn't responded, yet.
>Hopefully Italy will request something from you
>concerning Galicia. This would make it easier.
Yes, I'll let you know if I hear anything. I have
a couple of letters from England that I need to
respond to, but there's no firm ER plan, yet.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > What do you think we should do in the Southeast?
>I think the proper move to defend Bud/Ser is
>Gal-Vie. I'll handle the rest.
Gotta love the level of trust... Your defense affects
of the corner is crucial to the success of EIR. I'd
appreciate it if you'd at least discuss it with Ivy,
if you don't trust me.
>I do have two questions that haven't been mentioned yet.
>1) What am I supposed to do with Silesia?
Sil S Mun, or Mun S Sil-Tyl seem like the most
reasonable alternatives.
>2) I assume Lvn will move to Warsaw. Correct? That decision does effect
>my moves.
That wasn't my plan, but unless you're willing to
tell me how my order for Lvn affect your moves, I
don't see much reason to share my plans with you. 8-)
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Gotta love the level of trust...
>
My apologies if you interpreted my message as mistrust. That was not its
intention. I simply don't have a ton of time to write a dissertation on the
myriad of combinations possible.
Assuming Warsaw was still to be Italian and the deadline were in 5 minutes,
here are the moves I would make. Luckily, the deadline isn't in 5 minutes.
:)
ser - bul
rum s ser - bul
con s ser - bul
smy - aeg
ank - bla
arm - ank (although I may chicken out and order to SEV)
sil ????? (please TELL me what to order, I promise I won't question your
decision)
> Mun S Sil-Tyl
(I assume you meant 'mun s sil-BOH' although I'd sure love to order Sil-Tyl
this turn)
The thinking with the above moves is, if Turkey moves to SEV (highly highly
unlikely I'm thinking), we destroy the fleet next spring. France can only
get at most a 1 center gain from Bud/Ser. He can't get to Serbia unless I
get to Bul. He can't get to both Bud and Ser unless Russia gets to Vie
(assumes Gal->Vie is ordered). If he takes Budapest, we should be able to
kick him out next year as Rumania won't have to worry about the Turkish
fleet. I actually don't double support CON but I break all the possible
supports in a way that also prevents (for the time being) aeg-eas, gre-aeg.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
>My apologies if you interpreted my message as mistrust.
Sorry, I should have eaten then replied, I get grumpy
when I'm hungry. ;^}
> > Mun S Sil-Tyl
>(I assume you meant 'mun s sil-BOH'
Whoops, sorry, shoulda looked at the map. Sil S Mun
makes more sense than Sil-Boh, I think. Especially
given the possibility of Hol-Kie, Bur S Ruh-Mun.
(Nick goes to eat...)
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >1) France has to order Bre & Spa S MAO.
> >2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
> >3) His Army in Holland is at risk.
> >4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel and Bur.
> >5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's > hoping grow
>in the East.
>That army in Piedmont may be headed for Tyrolia,
>where it can be used against Munich on the western front. If we make bad
>moves (or just very bad guesses) we could
>lose your fleet and Munich. Then France might be able to overrun the west
>with all those armies.
True.
>Let's not do anything to risk the fleet.
I would certainly like to keep the Fleet, but I'm not
sure it's more important than say keeping France out
of ECh.
>save it in it's current position or try to get it to
>Holland.
My gut says Holland.
>It's still dangerous if we get careless. I remain in the
>stop-France-from-winning mode.
Obviously, but do you think we should attack or defend
to do it? ECh S Bel-Pic is a possibility here, if we
want to be aggressive, while Bel-Hol is more
defensively oriented. (I doubt France will order
Hol-Bel, it's at best a trade while Ruh-Bel gives
him a shot at growth.)
>[Will] any set of moves save Belgium other than the two that were last
>mentioned (cut all four armies;
>support Belgium->Holland while cutting Picardy). Are we down to those two
>choices?
The only other possibility I see is ECh S Bel-Pic,
Kie S Yor-Hel, Sil S Mun??? We'd probably lose
Bel, but we'd probably gain Pic.
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
FYI
Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>Gotta love the level of trust...
My apologies if you interpreted my message as mistrust. That was not its
intention. I simply don't have a ton of time to write a dissertation on the
myriad of combinations possible.
Assuming Warsaw was still to be Italian and the deadline were in 5 minutes,
here are the moves I would make. Luckily, the deadline isn't in 5 minutes.
:)
ser - bul
rum s ser - bul
con s ser - bul
smy - aeg
ank - bla
arm - ank (although I may chicken out and order to SEV)
sil ????? (please TELL me what to order, I promise I won't question your
decision)
>Mun S Sil-Tyl
(I assume you meant 'mun s sil-BOH' although I'd sure love to order Sil-Tyl
this turn)
The thinking with the above moves is, if Turkey moves to SEV (highly highly
unlikely I'm thinking), we destroy the fleet next spring. France can only
get at most a 1 center gain from Bud/Ser. He can't get to Serbia unless I
get to Bul. He can't get to both Bud and Ser unless Russia gets to Vie
(assumes Gal->Vie is ordered). If he takes Budapest, we should be able to
kick him out next year as Rumania won't have to worry about the Turkish
fleet. I actually don't double support CON but I break all the possible
supports in a way that also prevents (for the time being) aeg-eas, gre-aeg.
Message from France to Russia and Turkey
Ali:
Order BlS to Rum, that seems like our best shot at
getting you a center. If Italy is not ordering the
appropriate orders, then it will do the damage. Let's
hope that we can arrange for the fleet to make it to
port. It also is the best chance that does not require
your last minute attention (i.e. a change at the
deadline).
Thanks and do please confirm this change.
--Prince Boar
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, and Le Dauphin,
If you had to submit orders in the West right now,
what would you do? I'll try to guide England into
an order set that bounces or exchanges off it, and
attempt to let you know if he insists on something
else. (I really hate being forced to delay
negotiations until right before the deadline.)
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Thanks for the southern info. We should be able to bring
him down to 6 units. But saving Turkey looks unlikely
given Italy's idea. The best we could do is take Bud &
War and keep Bul.
In the North, my gut tells me that I should do the
following:
Pic -> Bel s by Hol & Bur, ruh s Hol
My other options are:
Hol -> kie s by Ruh, Bur -> Mun, Pic -> Bel
or
Ruhr -> Mun s by Bur, Hol -> Kie, Pic -> Bel
I was surprised that you would suggest for Italy to not
support Munich. It is your only way to guarantee keeping
it.
My taking Munich and giving up Holland is always another
option. It would be OK if you were taking StP and War.
Let me know.
--Xavier
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>(I doubt France will order
>Hol-Bel, it's at best a trade while Ruh-Bel gives
>him a shot at growth.)
It's Picardy->Holland that I fear most, because I don't want to
accidentally succeed with Channel->Picardy. I just want to cut Picardy.
I have grown accustomed to deferring to your tactical decisions unless I
have a very firm objection. This time I still don't have your decision,
and time grows late. Soooo ...
Fortunately, I think we are converging on Belgium->Holland with the support
of Kiel and North Sea. Should we toss in Channel->Picardy? Perhaps. Given
the late hour, I propose that we settle on this. If you counter with
another suggestion, then I will (almost certainly) go with that without any
objection.
We need to tell Italy that Silesia supp Munich is final then.
One more thing. Since you say you are not inclined to move
Livonia->Warsaw, I assume you have Livonia->StP in mind. I can't
object. StP is yours whenever you want it. This means that I may have to
destroy a unit, most likely the army in Denmark or the one in
England. That's probably better than Italy having to destroy a unit, which
would be remotely possible with Livinia->Warsaw.
We also need to tell Italy that he will keep Warsaw for another year.
Ivy
> > >1) France has to order Bre & Spa S MAO.
> > >2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
> > >3) His Army in Holland is at risk.
> > >4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel and Bur.
> > >5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's > hoping grow
> >in the East.
>
> >That army in Piedmont may be headed for Tyrolia,
> >where it can be used against Munich on the western front. If we make bad
> >moves (or just very bad guesses) we could
> >lose your fleet and Munich. Then France might be able to overrun the west
> >with all those armies.
>
>True.
>
> >Let's not do anything to risk the fleet.
>
>I would certainly like to keep the Fleet, but I'm not
>sure it's more important than say keeping France out
>of ECh.
>
> >save it in it's current position or try to get it to
> >Holland.
>
>My gut says Holland.
>
> >It's still dangerous if we get careless. I remain in the
> >stop-France-from-winning mode.
>
>Obviously, but do you think we should attack or defend
>to do it? ECh S Bel-Pic is a possibility here, if we
>want to be aggressive, while Bel-Hol is more
>defensively oriented. (I doubt France will order
>Hol-Bel, it's at best a trade while Ruh-Bel gives
>him a shot at growth.)
>
> >[Will] any set of moves save Belgium other than the two that were last
> >mentioned (cut all four armies;
> >support Belgium->Holland while cutting Picardy). Are we down to those two
> >choices?
>
>The only other possibility I see is ECh S Bel-Pic,
>Kie S Yor-Hel, Sil S Mun??? We'd probably lose
>Bel, but we'd probably gain Pic.
>
>Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
It seems to be clear that Silesia supports Munich and that Warsaw remains
in Italian hands for another year.
>ser - bul
>rum s ser - bul
>con s ser - bul
>smy - aeg
>ank - bla
>arm - ank (although I may chicken out and order to SEV)
>sil ????? (please TELL me what to order, I promise I won't question your
>decision)
Isn't Armenia->Sevastopol superior to Armenia->Ankara in that it makes
certain the instant death of Turkey?
[I'll make a prediction for French moves: Trieste->Serbia;
Aegean->Constantinople; BlackSea->Rumania, to cut all supports for any
attack on Bulgaria, plus Vienna->Budapest.]
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
> Message from England to Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> It seems to be clear that Silesia supports Munich and that Warsaw remains
> in Italian hands for another year.
Actually my "if I don't get any mail before the deadline" moves were
Lvn-StP,
Gal-War. 8-) Taking War probably makes more sense in terms of being
able to build near the front next year, but if it's too late to change that,
I'll
leave Warsaw Italian this year.
>ser - bul
>rum s ser - bul
>con s ser - bul
>smy - aeg
>ank - bla
>arm - ank (although I may chicken out and order to SEV)
>sil - war
> Isn't Armenia->Sevastopol superior to Armenia->Ankara in that it makes
> certain the instant death of Turkey?
Yes, but we need an Italian Unit in Syr much more than we do in Sev. I
think Idalia is right that Bla-Sev is unlikely. I'd assume that France will
try
to coordinate move with Ali, and Bla-Sev doesn't help France, even if it
succeeds.
> [ I'll make a prediction for French moves: Trieste->Serbia;
> Aegean->Constantinople; BlackSea->Rumania, to cut all
> supports for any attack on Bulgaria, plus Vienna->Budapest.]
Sounds clever enough.
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
An Okhrana operative in Paris slips you this note:
Ivy Wrote >
> [I'll make a prediction for French moves: Trieste->Serbia;
> Aegean->Constantinople; BlackSea->Rumania, to cut all
> supports for any attack on Bulgaria, plus Vienna->Budapest.]
Not bad. If you order Vie HOLD instead, Turkey has a fair shot
at Rum.
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Thanks for the information. I will be checking off and on all night.
In order for Turkey to get Rumania, Italy must order Rum to Bud. If he
does not, then not only does Turkey lose his fleet, but Italy loses
nothing. In order for you to get in position for a major and decisive
stab of Italy, one that essentially eliminates him from the game and
sets you up as the third party in a draw, we need for him to slowly
dwindle, without making look like it is your doing.
I am surprised that he is not asking for help from Galicia. What are
they expecting from it? Or are they accepting that you will take Warsaw
with it. Does Ivy OK your taking St. Petes? That might cost him a
unit, althought he could lose one without losing his stalemate line.
Italy will probably not tell you the movements of all his units. That
is how he brutally stabbed Austria and Turkey twice. But if you can
find out a bit of what he is doing, we can use it to cause him to drop
to 6 units, in a way that does not reveal that I had help. I may just
be going what England predicted.
Did you have any comments on my proposed moves for the North. As long
as you are not making a move on Picardy, I should be OK to set up my own
defense and take the pressure off you.
--Xavier
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> It's Picardy->Holland that I fear most, because I don't want to
> accidentally succeed with Channel->Picardy. I just want to cut Picardy.
Actually, ECh-Pic, Pic-Bel, Bel retreats to ECh lets us take MAO next
Spring... I suppose it would be bad if Bel-Hol worked, though.
> I have grown accustomed to deferring to your tactical decisions unless
> I have a very firm objection. This time I still don't have your decision,
> and time grows late. Soooo ...
It has been pointed out to me that once I devise a plan, it's nearly
impossible to get me to change my mind, and that tends to annoy people.
So,I've been striving to allow my allies to formulate the plans, and then
offer alternatives. ;^} It doesn't seem to be working, though... 8-)
> Fortunately, I think we are converging on Belgium->Holland with the
support
> of Kiel and North Sea.
Agreed.
> Should we toss in Channel->Picardy? Perhaps. Given
> the late hour, I propose that we settle on this.
I don't object to ECh-Pic, but given that Pic will either move to Bel, or
Suppport a move to Bel, it seems to make sense only if you hope to move
to Pic.
> I assume you have Livonia->StP in mind.
I left for Thanksgiving before Doug extended the deadline so I put in
default
orders of Lvn-StP and Gal-War. I assumed one or both would change, if we
ever got a chance to negotiate.
> That's probably better than Italy having to destroy a unit, which
> would be remotely possible with Livinia->Warsaw.
Actually Italy has one more Center than he has Units, so I could take War
without him disbanding, assuming he doesn't lose another Center to France
or Turkey. I'll change to Lvn-War with this letter.
Nick.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
> In the North, my gut tells me that I should do the
> following:
> Pic -> Bel s by Hol & Bur, ruh s Hol
You're willing to leave Pic open? I'm surprised. That should
work for us (Us being FR), though.
> I was surprised that you would suggest for Italy to not
> support Munich. It is your only way to guarantee keeping it.
It was a low blood-sugar moment before lunch, I was thinking
Sil could block Pie - Tyl. Sil is supporting Mun now.
> I am surprised that he is not asking for help from Galicia.
He wants Gal-Vie to cut Vie S Tri-Bud, or take Vie if you order
Tri S Vie-Bud.
> Does Ivy OK your taking St. Petes? That might cost him a
> unit, althought he could lose one without losing his stalemate line.
Lvn is still trying to decide which way to go.
Nick
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
>He wants Gal-Vie to cut Vie S Tri-Bud, or take Vie if you order
>Tri S Vie-Bud.
I strong suggest Gal -> War (and Lvn -> StP). You get stronger.
What are they going to do about it? Neither of them would be willing to
throw the game. They need you to prevent my solo, especially if I
manage to stay large. In fact, the larger I am, the more they need
you. So you could get away with something this turn.
I say that you take War & Lvn and help me keep Hol, Bul, and either my
take Bud or Turkey take Rum (preferred). Then next year, I somehow lose
Holland in the fall, as I take another Italian center. This keeps me at
bay, but still a threat. And my losing Holland keeps our working
together secret.
So, I need to be clear. What are your and England's orders in the
North. I want us to agree to a set of orders that meets our objectives:
I keep one of Hol, Bel, Mun and our working together is not obvious.
Is Kie & Sil supporting Mun, Nth -> Hol s by Bel, Eng -> Bel? Will you
be able to protect Bel?
Note that I do not want to keep Picardy open. I want to stay there and
not get to Belgium. It is critical that you neither support Eng to Pic
or order Bel to Pic.
Let me go through it so I know that it is correct:
Pic -> Bel (bounce)
Hol s Pic -> Bel (break)
Bur s Pic -> Bel
Bel s Nth -> Hol (break)
Eng s Bel
Ruh s Hol
Kie s Mun
Sil s Mun
Mun s Kie
Is this correct.
What is Ser doing? Going to Tri or Bud? What is Rum doing? If you can
only find out those two, I can do the rest.
--Xavier
Message from England to Italy and Russia
>> Isn't Armenia->Sevastopol superior to Armenia->Ankara in that it makes
>> certain the instant death of Turkey?
>
>Yes, but we need an Italian Unit in Syr much more than we do in Sev.
I think that Nick and I disagree (respectfully) on this one. An army in
Syria is needed only if France manages to occupy Bulgaria, Aegean, and
EasMed. But he cannot advance Greece & Aegean to Aegean & EasMed without
losing Bulgaria. In that case, fleets in Aegean and EasMed don't help him
anymore. If Armenia does manage to go to Sevastopol, it can continue on to
Rumania, because the current army in Rumania will push on to Bulgaria or
Budapest. Probably. 8-)
>Actually my "if I don't get any mail before the deadline" moves were
>Lvn-StP,
>Gal-War. 8-) Taking War probably makes more sense in terms of being
>able to build near the front next year, but if it's too late to change that,
>I'll
>leave Warsaw Italian this year.
I am very worried that there is going to be an accidental misunderstanding
between the two of you on what is happening or not happening in Warsaw this
turn. I say that, because I myself do not know what is going to happen
there. I hope you can straighten this out, even at this late hour.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>It has been pointed out to me that once I devise a plan, it's nearly
>impossible to get me to change my mind, and that tends to annoy people.
>So,I've been striving to allow my allies to formulate the plans, and then
>offer alternatives. ;^} It doesn't seem to be working, though... 8-)
Isn't this how marriages break up? "You're not the person I married."
>> Fortunately, I think we are converging on Belgium->Holland with the
>support
>> of Kiel and North Sea.
>
>Agreed.
Ok. Agreed.
>> Should we toss in Channel->Picardy? Perhaps. Given
>> the late hour, I propose that we settle on this.
>
>I don't object to ECh-Pic, but given that Pic will either move to Bel, or
>Suppport a move to Bel, it seems to make sense only if you hope to move
>to Pic.
Ugh. I don't hope to move to Picardy. I just want your fleet to survive
and I worry about Picardy contributing support for Holland to Belgium.
I think I a going to try Channel->Picardy
**********
> I'll change to Lvn-War with this letter.
Gulp! That's fine with me, but please let's not surprise Italy with this.
Does he know?
Ivy
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Are you still negotiating with I&E? Should I check back as the deadline
approaches?
It would be a shame for all our hard work to go for naught this year. I
will keep checking if you let me know. I can always sleep at work
tomorrow. Althought it would be a bad day to do that because we find
out if we will lose our jobs tomorrow. The holiday season is so
wonderful! :-)
--Xavier
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
In case it was not clear, it is critical that you take Warsaw. I prefer
that you take it from Galicia. But you must take it from somewhere.
And we need to either take Budapest or get Turkey into Rumania. In an
ideal world we could get Turkey Sev and take Bud, but that is probably
hoping for too much.
The orders are set to process in 30 minutes. Perhaps you felt that I
had everything that I need to know, or else you are busy with real life
:-) I am just waiting nervously and worrying that I do not know what I
need to know. :-)
--Xavier
England: Fleet English Channel → Picardy
England: Fleet Irish Sea SUPPORT Fleet North Atlantic Ocean → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
England: Army Kiel SUPPORT Russian Fleet Belgium → Holland
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean → Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*bounce*)
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Russian Fleet Belgium → Holland
England: Army Sweden → Denmark
England: Army Yorkshire → Wales
France: Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*cut*)
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Bulgaria (south coast)
France: Army Holland SUPPORT Army Picardy → Belgium (*destroyed*)
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Russian Fleet Belgium → English Channel (*void*)
France: Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia
France: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Holland
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Vienna → Budapest
France: Army Vienna → Budapest
Italy: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Armenia → Ankara (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*cut*)
Italy: Army Rumania SUPPORT Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*cut*)
Italy: Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Silesia SUPPORT Russian Army Munich
Italy: Fleet Smyrna → Aegean Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Belgium → Holland
Russia: Army Galicia → Vienna
Russia: Army Livonia → Warsaw
Russia: Army Munich SUPPORT English Army Kiel → Ruhr (*void*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea → Rumania (*bounce*)
|