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France: Builds 3 units
Italy: Builds 1 unit
Turkey: Removes 1 unit
Message from Russia to Italy
Idalia,
> > Could you point me to what you consider to be my "deception"?
>I felt convinced you were not be completely
>forthright with me last spring. I was not thrilled to hear that you had
>discussed our talks about Sevastopol
>with France and then used his advice to finalize your decision to support
>me there under the guise of 'working together' to prevent French expansion.
Well, that's an interesting perspective. I decided
to support you into Sev because I felt it was the
only way I could get you to oppose France, and I
felt, and still feel, that you slowing France's
growth is important.
>if I had moved Gal-Vie and Ukr-Sev, are you going to tell me the
>following would not have occurred (or at least been attempted)?
>
>France->Turkey: France->Russia: Russia->Turkey:
When was the last time you heard from Turkey??? He
hasn't responded to any of my letters since before
he moved to Moscow. As near as I can tell he's just
been entering moves since 9/11. If you're working
with me to stop France, and eliminate Turkey, and
negotiating with me, I'd have to be a moron to try
to coordinate something with Turkey. Would France
have attempted it? Possibly. Would Turkey have
responded? I doubt it. Would I betray an ally
who was working with me, and did not pose a threat
to me? Hell, no! You can't build, you can't hold
the line against France and attack me. That makes
you a much better ally than Turkey, even if you
were both talking.
>It is my opinion that this Englishman has no
>intention of issuing a 'set draw' command unless he has the most units on
>the board and he certainly is not going to set a goal for himself of being
>a 4 unit power in a 4 way draw.
That's part of the reason I've been so hesitant to
let him take Kiel. From Kiel it's much easier for
him to stab me.
>In a normal game, sure, that would be an option. The point of this game is
>to win the tournament not to survive as a lesser power in a draw.
Yes, but it's still a JDPR rated game, and a Draw
against Roger Yonkoski is still better than a loss.
If I had been able to knock him down to four Centers
he'd be faced with a draw or lose choice. I don't
think he'd choose the loss.
If you work with me, do you face the threat of
elimination? Sure you do. If you work with me,
do you have a chance to share in a Draw? Yes,
you do. Will attacking me result in a French Solo?
Probably. I'm letting England into Kiel, against
my better judgment. I encourage you to order
Sev Hold, War-Sil. First we have to stop France.
Work with me, and we can sort out the endgame
together.
Sincerely,
Nick.
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Your moves suggest that you thought that I would betray you. The
results suggest that you betrayed yourself! I am sorry that you could
not trust me more. Perhaps you felt.... Well, I guess that I will just
wait to hear what you felt rather than speculate.
--Xavier
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> Yes, but it's still a JDPR rated game, and a Draw
> against Roger Yonkoski is still better than a loss.
>
Any talk of the JDPR or other rating system will fall on deaf ears here. I
could care less about how good or bad Doug's system rates me (or any other
rating system for that matter). I don't play the game for that purpose.
The only reason I even know who you are talking about when you refer to Mr.
Yonkoski (assuming, of course, that's not me) is because he coordinated
Doug's gift. Ask me who else is playing in this game and I couldn't tell
you without referring to a reference.
> If you work with me, do you have a chance to share
> in a Draw? Yes, you do.
Being blunt, I will only 'set draw' if I have the most units on the board.
Otherwise, this game will end in a solo victory or my elimination.
> First we have to stop France. Work with me, and we
> can sort out the endgame together.
>
I started writing this note before the results came in. Now that I've read
the results, I wish I had moved to Silesia. It would also appear that
Turkey was listening to somebody rather just entering orders. Unless France
had your permission, it would also appear that you were wrong about Holland.
Is it too late to stop France? I suppose the answer will depend on the next
round of ERI negotiations.
Idalia
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> Being blunt, I will only 'set draw' if I have the most units
> on the board.
> Otherwise, this game will end in a solo victory or my elimination.
>
I forgot to add:
That said, if somebody moves to eliminate me from the game because of this
policy, I would move to assist the power with the best chance at soloing.
Your "alliance" with France to prevent your elimination at the hands of
England is proof enough for me that you understand what I am talking about.
Message from Russia to Italy
Idalia,
> Being blunt, I will only 'set draw' if I have the most units
> on the board.
Fair enough, but that's an impossibilty unless you head west before France
solidifies his lines.
> That said, if somebody moves to eliminate me from the game because of this
> policy, I would move to assist the power with the best chance at soloing.
> Your "alliance" with France to prevent your elimination at the hands of
> England is proof enough for me that you understand what I am talking
about.
No, there's a difference. I'm not supporting France into English Centers,
and
up until I screwed up this Fall, I wasn't letting France walk into my
Centers.
I was keeping myself in the game, not throwing it to France.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
Gentlemen,
I am willing to try again. I think (hope) we understand each other's
position better. I take full responsibility for the results of the past
year. It was, and still is, a difficult time for me.
France is at 14. Personally, I don't see where the next four are coming
from.
Personally, for the time being, I would like to keep the southeast corner
(rum,bul,con,smy,ser,sev,ank (assuming I can get it)). That's 7. Warsaw
would be returned to Russia.
I'm not usually much for discussing movement details until seeing
adjustments, but for the sake of time am willing to adjust that policy as
long as we discuss both Turkish possibilities.
I'll start with War-Ukr, Sev-Arm, Rum s Ukr-Gal. I'm sure there are other
options.
Respectively,
Idalia (I will return to being Roberto if and when that last yellow thing is
removed from the board)
Message from Italy to Russia
>
> No, there's a difference. I'm not supporting France into
> English Centers, and up until I screwed up this Fall, I
> wasn't letting France walk into my Centers.
> I was keeping myself in the game, not throwing it to France.
>
And this difference is related to being a corner power or a middle power.
As Italy, I can't have two corner powers on either end of me who both want
me eliminated.
It is my belief (my style per se), that I had to throw all of my weight
against one of them at any cost and worry about the outcome later. Later
has arrived.
Message from Russia to France
Xavier, My Friend,
> Your moves suggest that you thought that I would betray you.
*chuckle* The one thing I am sure is that you will not betray me
unless it gives you a forced win, and perhaps not even then, if you
have other options open to you.
> The results suggest that you betrayed yourself!
Perhaps. The tactical picture favors my being eliminated by EI
now, but my accepting the English demand that I allow Den-Kie
alters the diplomatic landscape considerably.
> I am sorry that you could not trust me more.
It was not a lack of trust. I was trying to get Italy to vacate
War by agreeing to England's demands. The failure to bounce
you in Hol was an unfortunate oversight. I guess we'll see what
happens this Spring.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
I thought you should know what sort of "ally" we're dealing with here.
Nick.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
> > Yes, but it's still a JDPR rated game, and a Draw
> > against Roger Yonkoski is still better than a loss.
>
> Any talk of the JDPR or other rating system will fall on deaf ears here.
> I could care less about how good or bad Doug's system rates me (or
> any other rating system for that matter). I don't play the game for
> that purpose.
>
> > If you work with me, do you have a chance to share
> > in a Draw? Yes, you do.
>
> Being blunt, I will only 'set draw' if I have the most units on the board.
> Otherwise, this game will end in a solo victory or my elimination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find it ironic that he pays no attention to Ratings systems, but is
playing
the tournament rules meta-game...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > First we have to stop France. Work with me, and we
> > can sort out the endgame together.
>
> I started writing this note before the results came in. Now that I've
read
> the results, I wish I had moved to Silesia. It would also appear that
> Turkey was listening to somebody rather just entering orders. Unless
> France had your permission, it would also appear that you were wrong
> about Holland. Is it too late to stop France? I suppose the answer will
> depend on the next round of ERI negotiations.
>
> Idalia
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I understand my moves. I understand your moves. I even understand Italy's
moves, although we failed to persuade him to do otherwise.
However, can you explain France to me? What was the deal with Holland?
Was anything like that expected?
Nor can I understand what France did in the southeast. By helping Italy
destroy Turkey, he gives Italy a chance to turn and defend himself against
France. Surely, France knew that Italy's singleminded strategy for years
has been to sieze the corner for himself. With a functioning Turkey at
Italy's back France has been constantly able to take advantage of Italy.
Is he throwing away that advantage?
As for your own prospects, you can still have StP. Apparently you can get
Warsaw as well. The tactical position with respect to stopping a French
solo seems to have improved. The diplomatic position may have opened up as
well. Your apology, coupled with the Italian takeover in Constantinople is
probably improving Roberto's temperment.
In the midst of the furious exchange between you and me and Italy before
the move, Italy sent me a short, buy nice, note thanking me for my efforts
at coalition building. He thanked me, but did not yield to my suggestions.
Nevertheless I think we have a better chance this turn.
First things first. What is the situation between you and France.
[I thought of recommending Belgium->Holland last turn to make our forces
more compact, but didn't bother with the idea. I regret it now.]
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
Our electrons probably crossed in e-land.
>> Being blunt, I will only 'set draw' if I have the most units on the board.
>> Otherwise, this game will end in a solo victory or my elimination.
I can respect this attitutide, but I don't know if it is genuine. Italy
has made rigid, uncompromising statements before. Heck, if we can stop
France, maybe we can grant Italy his wish and eliminate him.
>> I started writing this note before the results came in. Now that I've
>> read the results, I wish I had moved to Silesia.
I find this statement hopeful. Italy may become more reasonabl now that
his position is improving. Sometimes players are most irascible when they
believe that they have little chance.
Let's sleep on this, Nick.
Ivy
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
I agree that you may have traded your existence for a
chance to prevent my solo. It is really up to Ivy now.
He has the dagger at your throat now, not me. But you
have continued to survive despite the odds, so we shall
see.
I am not certain that I want to be in Holland actually.
But I am here and will have to see what comes of it.
There is always the option of eliminating Italy, but you
probably will not go for it as you worry about my
victory. Then again if you don't go for it, you might be
the one eliminated.
I should have taken your advice and gone for Bulgaria.
:-) Now it may be too late.
Well, I best let the dust settle a bit and reflect before
I get too carried away.
--Xavier
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
> I agree that you may have traded your existence for a
> chance to prevent my solo. It is really up to Ivy now.
> He has the dagger at your throat now, not me. But you
> have continued to survive despite the odds, so we shall
> see.
I suspect what I've traded is a shot at EFR for the liklihood
of EFI. Unfortunately, given the diplomatic pressure I was
under, I felt that handing the knife to Ivy was my only chance
to keep him from siding with Italy as Italy worked to eliminate
me. I can't be eliminated this year without your cooperation,
and that's not in your best interest, I suspect, so I should have
another year to try to talk my way above four Units, though.
Italy claims he won't Set Draw unless he has the most Units /
Centers in the draw, so I suspect we're both going to have
problems with him.
> I am not certain that I want to be in Holland actually.
> But I am here and will have to see what comes of it.
Yes, it does make your position more problematic, doesn't it?
That move has caused all sorts of questions from everyone,
though. (Well, not from the Turkey, but everyone else.) Have
you told anyone why you moved there? (I'm trying to think if
I can use the move to my diplomatic advantage, but I'm not
much of a liar, and I'm not sure what sort of story I should
spin about it...)
> There is always the option of eliminating Italy, but you
> probably will not go for it as you worry about my
> victory. Then again if you don't go for it, you might be
> the one eliminated.
Oh yeah, my one real hope remains that you hit Italy full
force. Otherwise, I'm toast. That's why I suggested
Aeg-Bul. The prospect of your solo doesn't frighten me
in the least, you've played a great game, and you deserve
it. I'll try to stop you if I can, but I see no reason to get
eliminated so that EI can stop you. ;^}
> Well, I best let the dust settle a bit and reflect before
> I get too carried away.
I'm here to bounce ideas off of.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to Turkey
Ali,
My thanks for the support into Sev. At the last minute, I thought I had a
chance to knock Italy out of War, and changed my orders. Oops. In
the long term, your disband probably does not matter, but keeping F Bla
makes Italy's life much more complicated. ;^} You might even be able
to work a deal with France for support into Bul/EC or Con.
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from France to all
I have an experiment all day today and will have little
time for diplomacy. I will most likely respond to any
mail tonight.
Have a great day.
France
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
The more I think about it the more I think that you are
and I are about to get screwed over. Italy and England
can eliminate you, then I will not be able to hold both
fronts and will slowly get squashed between them. France
is a natural stalemate line.
I made some major mistakes last turn.
Are you willing to work with me, rather than get used by
them? Our goal would be to hold Ivy at bay and eliminate
Italy. Then we end this thing with a three-way draw. I
figure it is better to have a EFR than a EI.
--Xavier
Message from France to Russia
Nick:
Almost forgot, I told Ivy that you were supposed to
bounce me in Holland. I did not want you to spin
something that he knew was false.
I also wrote Ivy last night telling him that he would
decide if the game would end in EIRF or EIF, suggesting
that I would help him eliminate you. I wanted you to
know that. I have since changed my mind.
It is funny that Italy told you that he would not set
draw. He told me the opposite :-)
--Xavier
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>The more I think about it the more I think that you are
>and I are about to get screwed over. Italy and England
>can eliminate you, then I will not be able to hold both
>fronts and will slowly get squashed between them.
Yes, I see that danger as well.
>I made some major mistakes last turn.
I was surprised to see you support Italy into Con.
I didn't think you want him to be able to back
into the corner. What do you see as your mistakes?
Mine were certainly legion. 8-(
>Are you willing to work with me, rather than get used by them? Our goal
>would be to hold Ivy at bay and eliminate Italy. Then we end this thing
>with a three-way draw. I figure it is better to have a EFR than a EI.
I think I have to play cautiously this year, to
avoid losing Moscow, but yes, eliminating Italy
seems like a worthy goal, if for no other reason
than to ensure that every Power which attacked
Russia gets eliminated. 8-)
In Alliance,
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
France now suggests that his winning chances are gone and that I might like
to participate in the elimination of Russia and accept a 3-way with him and
Italy.
No thanks. His winning chances are not gone, and the three of us have work
to do.
Sure, elimination of Russia might be discussable down the road. Or
England, or Italy, or even France. Not now. First I wish to see France
brought back from the cusp of victory. Way back. If we think the job is
done and renew the fight amongst ourselves, we only give France a second
chance.
If the three of us are going to argue, let's argue over the best strategy
to finish France's victory chances beyond doubt. Let's argue over how many
units he has to lose or surrender before we celebrate.
I am still motivated by France's reference to "my victory" [i.e., France's
victory] some time back. That was a bit premature.
Ivy
Message from Russia to France
Xavier,
>Almost forgot, I told Ivy that you were supposed to
>bounce me in Holland. I did not want you to spin
>something that he knew was false.
Thanks. Given that the move leaves a hole in your
line, I may suggest that it was an intentional
effort to isolate Munich, and expose Ruhr.
Especially since that's less embarassing than
admitting that I screwed up. ;^}
>I also wrote Ivy last night telling him that he would
>decide if the game would end in EIRF or EIF, suggesting
>that I would help him eliminate you. I wanted you to
>know that.
Ouch. Not the best news I've had today.
>It is funny that Italy told you that he would not set
>draw. He told me the opposite :-)
This is why I try to avoid lying. People compare
notes, and stop trusting you. His declared position
didn't make much sense to me, but does that mean it's
a lie, or just that his point of view is radically
different from mine?
Nick.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>France is at 14. I don't see where the next four are coming from.
Bel, Kie, Ber, Bud, Ser, Bul, Con/Smy (with Turkish
help). Will it be easy for him? No. Are his
tactics as good as diploming? Let's hope not. 8-)
Is it possible? Certainly. I do not see Prince
Boar setting draw any time soon, even if he is in
the lead.
>I would like to keep the southeast corner
>(rum,bul,con,smy,ser,sev,ank (assuming I can get it)). That's 7. Warsaw
>would be returned to Russia.
Serbia cannot be held, and I'm not sure that Rum
and Bul can hold without Fleets in EMed and Aeg.
I will take Warsaw back, though, thanks. 8-)
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>I understand my moves. I understand your moves. I even understand Italy's
>moves,
The only question is, how soon will he try to
eliminate me, or try to convince you and France
to eliminate me?
>What was the deal with Holland?
>Was anything like that expected?
We were supposed to bounce Kie and Ruh in Hol. I
figured that letting him move to Hol broke up his
line, opening Ruh for Kie-Ruh, While exposing A Hol
to destruction and Mun to capture. It would have
been much more effective with War-Sil, though. I
knew France would be taking two from Italy, and
that he would not be able to build in Bre, and
that I would build at most one, so it seemed like
a reasonable sacrifice.
>Nor can I understand what France did in the southeast. Is he throwing away
>that advantage?
That puzzled me as well, but perhaps he feels he can
manipulate Italy, while Turkey's silence gives him no
options.
>As for your own prospects, you can still have StP. Apparently you can get
>Warsaw as well.
I'll believe it when I see it.
>What is the situation between you and France.
He's greatly offended that I didn't trust him, and
finds it amusing that my lack of trust cost me Kie
and Hol.
>[I thought of recommending Belgium->Holland I regret it now.]
F Hol would have been pretty useless, though.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >>I will only 'set draw' if I have the most units on the board.
> >>Otherwise, this game will end in a solo victory or my elimination.
>
>I can respect this attitude, but I don't know if it is genuine.
It seems odd for someone who claims to place no value
on rating systems to meta-game the tournament rules
this way, though. Especially when it's extremely
unlikely that he'll ever be able to build. In a
follow-up letter he also threatened to throw the game
to France if he was threatened with elimination. It
amounts to saying he'll throw the game to France, no
matter what. If we assume he doesn't mean it, why
tell me this, then. It amounts to a declaration that
he won't let me into the draw, the way I read it.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>It seems odd for someone who claims to place no value
>on rating systems to meta-game the tournament rules
>this way, though.
I would ignore all such remarks and concentrate on the moves at hand. If
we draw him into a debate about long-range matters, he may be more
difficult to deal with.
I haven't had time to think of overall tactics, but one easy sequence of
moves has occurred to me. Nwy->Swe->Den provides support for Kiel while
leaving Sweden in your hands. Assuming that you take StP this year, I will
destroy my homeland army.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>I would ignore all such remarks and concentrate on the moves at hand.
He who focuses on the safety of his next step, is
likely to wander from the path, and fail to reach
his destination.
>Nwy->Swe->Den provides support for Kiel while
>leaving Sweden in your hands.
My first inclination would be Nth C Nwy-Hol, but
I haven't really looked at the possibilities, yet.
Nick.
Message from France to all
Sorry, I thought that I had 23 hours, which should have
been tonight sometime? Oh well, my orders are in.
France
France: BUILD Army Marseilles
France: BUILD Army Paris
France: WAIVE
Italy: WAIVE
Turkey: REMOVE Army Ankara
Centers
England: 7
France: 14
Italy: 8
Russia: 4
Turkey: 1
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