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Message from Italy to Austria
Good Afternoon.
I dont think we have ever had the pleasure of sharing a board before.
I am a firm believer in the idea that if Italy and Austria fight before
1904 and the Russian and Turk arent completely incompetant....we both die.
I suggest we find a way to help each other.
Have you heard from anyone else.
Andy
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
Greetings from distant England.
We have neighbors in common & I am sure much to discuss over time. Also
thinking pretty long-term E and A are natural allies, as England is a naval
western power & Austria an eastern army power.
Particularly with Italy - the dangerous Andy Bartalone - and Russia -
dangerous because it's Russia - we should be in touch often. That said I've
heard nothing from either so far.
Here we go!
Ben
Message to all
Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
ID Email Name JDPR Rating JDPR
Games JDPR Rank
1791 ericg (at) mac.com Eric Goodman 1349.00 5
288 8 0 8.00
What is Jason's JDPR? I couldnt find him.
This must be our Benjamin:
ID Email Name JDPR Rating JDPR Games JDPR Rank RR Games RR Resignations
RR Ratio
6887 benjamin.harris (at) mindspring.com Ben Harris 1012.00 4 3835 4 0
4.00
Message from Germany to all
Greetings all, Just thought that I would let you know that I wish to solo
and that I hope to have a good time whilst doing so.
I will have to make Belgium my 18th SC as England has desires for it. It is
negotiable according to England but hey
if he wants it then I will take Beligium last. It wont matter then.
Anyone else have any wishes. If not then all just vote me the winner and we
can move on.
I am easy, if two of you have the same solo wish then hey lets compromise
;-)
May you all live for as long as you want and never want for as long as you
live.
Tony
p.s. Its bedtime here in holland (Ben its 00:03 a.m. now), will get back to
A,T, R tomorrow.
Message from Master to all
Players,
The game has now started, powers have been assigned and the opening
salvos have been fired. I think we've got a great group of players in
this game, so I'm sure it will be a great experience for all of you
and for our commentators.
One of our players will be gone for a week from the 10th to the 18th.
I'm hoping that we can complete our first year before that hiatus.
Just to let you know, right now we've got over twenty commentators. I
expect that a few more will trickle in over the next few days.
Also, each Spring, as early as I can, I'm going to broadcast the
following message. After the first few years, I might cut back to once
every second year. I just want to make sure no one forgets about this.
------------
Players,
Please keep in mind that if you'd like to share your plans, strategy
and whatnot with the commentators, you can do that by sending press to
yourself. That way the commentators will see your comments, but other
players will not. If you send "press to o", anyone can see your
comments by requesting a history of the game. If you send "press to
m", I will see your comments but the commentators will not.
You are not required to share information with the commentators, but
you are encouraged to do so.
Greg, GM
C2
-------------
I'd like to wish everyone the best of luck in the game - have a great
game everyone.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Austria to Germany
Hi Tony,
My first letter goes to you as I have a great need of
my German brother. While we both sit in the middle
of, soon to be, war torn Europe, with all the inherent
dangers of such positions, I'm already under the threat
of invasion by italians armies sitting just the other side
of my border.
I will of course do my best to insure the safety of my
people, but if I were to fail, you would find yourself
surrounded by powers that might be hostile to you
whereas I don't have the luxury or the desire to (Our
most effective paths of expansion lies in opposite
directions and the list of contested sc would be limited
to three: Marseilles, Warsaw & Moscow. A very small
list compare to other countries; wich make potential
conflicts between us very easy to handle and quite
unprobable until late in the game).
Given the mutual benefit of seeing the other survive
to protect our backs, I'm hoping that you will accept
to provide me with some diplomatic cover toward
Italy & Russia. Specifically, I would like you to keep
an army in Munich this year, to help repel a possible
italian invasion, and send your fleet to Denmark, to
deny Sweden to Russia if he has proven himself
hostile to us.
Once Russia & Italy are made of aware of this, it is
doubtfull they would entertained any hostiles actions
toward us and it should be easier for us to deal with
them.
Hope to hear from you soon as the rest of my
diplomacy depend on your answer,
Philippe
Message from Austria to Austria
First thing first. I will make sure of the Anschluss.
Since Germany has a JDPR of 1327 and rated
himself expert, it shouldn't be too hard, provided
he doesn't have something special in mind; but I
will still explain what I want instead of simply
asking for the Anschluss by name. This way, I
get to remind him why this is a good idea.
Philippe
Message from Russia to all
>[Grey] Broadcast message in 'c2':
>Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
Da, dat's me, Tovarich. But watz wit' all the hush-hush secret
stuff? You messin' wit' me? Why doncha come out where's I can see ya,
huh?
--- Tzarface
Message from Russia to Austria
Greetings Archduke Philippe,
How go things in the south? Austria is one of my favorite countries
to play. Most people seem to be daunted by it, but for some reason I
find the stress of the position comforting.
I'm pretty flexible in terms of my openings. If you would like, we
can bounce in Gal, or we can declare it a DMZ. Unsurprisingly, I'm
going to focus on Rum initially.
Longer term RA can be a very effective alliance, so long as we make
sure you don't get hit by Italy in the early going, and we get a
decent jump on Turkey so he can't hold out too long. What are you
looking to do?
I haven't heard from Turkey yet, and only got a short message from
Andy in Italy. While I've never played with Andy before, he has a
strong reputation, so I think he's someone to watch out for. Going
purely by JDPR I'm someone to watch out for as well (which is the
point I think whoever did the grey broadcast was trying to get at) so
I don't know what you think of me. The Turk to the south is not
someone I'm at all familiar with.
More later,
--- Tzarface
Message from England to all
> This must be our Benjamin:
> Ben Harris 1012.00
I just want to point out, that my JDPR is within several percentage points
of Andy's, at 1085. Therefore I am pretty much as good as Andy Bartalone,
who is well known in some circles as a player who uses ellipses very
frequently. . .
Also I want to point out that Greg's JDPR of 1431 is highest of all of us,
and I think we should gang up on him and fix the game settings so we all
solo.
Finally I want Tony to know that Belgium is his, if he will but send me a
case of that weird fruit flavored beer they have there.
Thank you.
Ben
Message to all
> >[Grey] Broadcast message in 'c2':
> >Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
>
> Da, dat's me, Tovarich. But watz wit' all the hush-hush secret
> stuff? You messin' wit' me? Why doncha come out where's I can see ya,
> huh?
No.....Eric Hunter played Russia in the first game...not Eric Goodman...
But Eric is every bit as good as his namesake.
Message from Italy to all
>
> > This must be our Benjamin:
> > Ben Harris 1012.00
>
> I just want to point out, that my JDPR is within several percentage points
> of Andy's, at 1085. Therefore I am pretty much as good as Andy Bartalone,
> who is well known in some circles as a player who uses ellipses very
> frequently. . .
Be careful what you say.....everyone here knows that I suck at this game.
> Also I want to point out that Greg's JDPR of 1431 is highest of all of us,
> and I think we should gang up on him and fix the game settings so we all
> solo.
Ok....I dont want to be part of that.....see Greg...I am not a
mutineer...:-)
> Finally I want Tony to know that Belgium is his, if he will but send me a
> case of that weird fruit flavored beer they have there.
That would be Lambic.
Message from Turkey to all
Good to hear from everyone. I'm afraid I don't have a JDPR, although
it's not for lack of trying! All my games have completed since Jan 1 of
this year.
Looking forward to it....
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria
Greetings, fine Austria!
Since AT always have a touchy relationship, I thought it important to
get in touch with you immediately, so we can work out a solid agreement.
If we want, we can work well together, with you on land and me at sea
moving west across the continent.
Let me know what you think of this vision, and I'd be happy to discuss
it further.
jason
Message from Russia to all
> > >[Grey] Broadcast message in 'c2':
> > >Is this our Eric? playing Russia?
> >
> > Da, dat's me, Tovarich. But watz wit' all the hush-hush secret
> > stuff? You messin' wit' me? Why doncha come out where's I can see ya,
> > huh?
>
>No.....Eric Hunter played Russia in the first game...not Eric Goodman...
>
>But Eric is every bit as good as his namesake.
Lemme 'splain, 'cuz youse havin some trouble gettin' dem fax straight, see.
#1- I'm Eric. That other Eric, I'm his namesake. Just 'cuz he's been dippin
longer dan me an doin bedder dan me don't make him da original guy.
#2- Da first inkwyry was askin' if da' guy playin' Russia (dat's me,
comrade) is da same guy whatz got da ID dat he showed in da broadcast.
Since I'z da guy what used ta have da "@mac.com" moniker, he was inkwyrin'
about me, not dat udder Eric guy.
#3- Since I'z da one what said I'z da' guy what da udder guy was askin'
about, whatcha' doin' contradiktin' me in fronna' my whole family fer?
Alla dis disrepectin, an ya ain't even got da constatushun ta come out an
talk ta me face ta face. Sheesh! Watz da world comin' to, anyway?
--- Tzarface
Message from Germany to Austria
Hi Philippe,
>My first letter goes to you as I have a great need of my German brother. While we both sit in the middle
of, soon to be, war torn Europe, with all the inherent dangers of such positions, I'm already under the threat
of invasion by italians armies sitting just the other side of my border.>
Who informed you of my plans to attack europe, or did the open solo broadcast give me away ;-)
As for Italy, I have always found AI once they have found each other to be a very reliable force to be reckoned with. I am sure the Italian will be knocking at your door carrying an olive branch. I have already spoken to him and urged him (in my own interest) to not war with you. I am sure the two of you have enough to worry about, you dont want a juggernaut rolling your way. I am hoping that this may allow VEN to come to my aid should EF take a fancy to my country. Maybe you can stear the AI alliance in this direction of cooperation.
>I will of course do my best to insure the safety of my people, but if I were to fail, you would find yourself surrounded by powers that might be hostile to you whereas I don't have the luxury or the desire to (Our most effective paths of expansion lies in opposite directions and the list of contested sc would be limited to three: Marseilles, Warsaw & Moscow. A very small list compare to other countries; wich make potential
conflicts between us very easy to handle and quite unprobable until late in the game).>
I have no reason to believe that we will be in conflict now or in the near future.
> Given the mutual benefit of seeing the other survive to protect our backs, I'm hoping that you will accept
to provide me with some diplomatic cover toward Italy & Russia. Specifically, I would like you to keep
an army in Munich this year, to help repel a possible italian invasion, and send your fleet to Denmark, to
deny Sweden to Russia if he has proven himself hostile to us.>
Your suggestions have been noted, for now EFRIA have all made suggestions concerning my troop movements.
> Once Russia & Italy are made of aware of this, it is doubtfull they would entertained any hostiles actions
toward us and it should be easier for us to deal with them.>
As I said, make friends with Italy. I will send a press to you both expressing my desires for your union.
> Hope to hear from you soon as the rest of my diplomacy depend on your answer>
Lets do our rounds and get back to each other.
Tony
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
To AIG, a toast.....may our cooporation blossom. Together we form a strong centre with enough expansion possibilities without antagonising each other. Our backs are covered. Let us erect a shrine in TYR and may it never come crumbling down.
Message from Germany to all
> Finally I want Tony to know that Belgium is his, if he will but send me a
case of that weird fruit flavored beer they have there.<
Ah, you mean a case of the "forbidden drink", consider it done. Thank you for giving me BEL as my 18th center.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Hi again, I have spoken to all powers now and have received input back from them. Going by the first comment game though the spring moves were a surprise to most. I wonder if that will be the case in this game.
How are you two getting on? do you need any specific feedback from my round of talks?
For now I am sticking to my GIA as the best line of defence, we can watch each others back.
Message from Austria to Turkey
Hi Jason,
I look forward to working with you. My first priority
in the near future will be survival, but provided I can
achieve this, I should be available to further whatever
plan of yours that doesn't target me.
Afterall, collaboration with Turkey is alot safer then
with Italy or Russia since you are farther away (a new
Italian units will take one turn to reach my homeland
while a Russian one will need two and yours three).
The Balkan question will have to be resolve of course;
but since the natural gains of 1901 are Tunis for Italy,
Serbia for Austria, Bulgaria for Turkey & Sweden for
Russia, we are left with 2 sc to split between us. Russia
might consider Rumania to be his, but I don't see what
right a 4 sc power has of becoming a 6 sc power by
limiting at least one of us to only 4 sc.
Philippe.
P.-S. Having you sail west is fine by me, but I would
suggest making sure no surprise come out of Sevastopol
before that.
Message from Austria to Germany
Hi Tony,
Thank you for your kind words, but I was hoping for
something more concrete. Sweet talking Italy & Russia
into leaving me alone, and even work with me, sure is
something I have to do; but if they decide that taking
me out is their best option to solo, it's not going to stop
them from doing so; and neither are your own words if
they aren't backed by a capacity to actually do something
about it.
I understand that you prefer to keep your options open,
but can you at least give me Kie-Den to work with?
Whatever you decide for the rest of your units, this
would still give you a very flexible positionning.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
>
> To AIG, a toast.....may our cooporation blossom. Together we form a
strong centre with enough expansion possibilities without antagonising
each other. Our backs are covered. Let us erect a shrine in TYR and may
it never come crumbling down.
>
An excellent sentiment. I agree whole-heartedly.
Message from Turkey to Austria
Good to hear from you.
As you say, the 1901 gains are fairly standard. Hopefully, we can then
come to an understanding on Greece and Rumania. Of course, I'll be in a
much better position to consider Rumania if Italy doesn't try anything
silly. :-)
I'm talking with Russia, but I'll cover myself as well. I don't see any
reason to give him another advantage.
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
> As you say, the 1901 gains are fairly standard. Hopefully, we can then
> come to an understanding on Greece and Rumania. Of course, I'll be in a
> much better position to consider Rumania if Italy doesn't try anything
> silly. :-)
Of course, if Russia is quickly dealt with, who care what silly
moves Italy makes ;-) Without a two front war, Turkey is
quite safe from italian naval ambition.
> I'm talking with Russia, but I'll cover myself as well. I don't see any
> reason to give him another advantage.
Sure, no problem. I'm not going to push for anything here. I'm
just letting you know what is possible. When you feel that
attacking another is the thing to do, just let me know and I
will see what part I can play in your plan.
Philippe.
P.-S. In a split of Rumania and Greece, I have no preference.
Rumania can be a nice place from wich to launch an invasion
of Russia and Greece sure is a nice place to station a fleet.
Message from Germany to Austria
Hi Philippe,
I thought that we would make our rounds and then get back to each other with more concrete measures.
> I understand that you prefer to keep your options open,
but can you at least give me Kie-Den to work with? Whatever you decide for the rest of your units, this
would still give you a very flexible positionning.>
I am still in the middle of talks, even to the point where I am asking AR to work with you.
For now Russia and I are coming to terms regarding yours and his interacting in my eyes and my first impressions following a round of talks. As you know I have suggested to you and Italy that we work together.
A normal opening for germany would be to den, kie and BUR or RUH depending on negotiations and gut feelings.
If I feel all is going well with england then KIE to DEN will be the move to make. I wish things to go well with both E and F. All Russia has asked is that I dont bounce him in Sweden, I did point out to him that this has been suggested as a course of action if certain situations arise. We spoke openly about it. I did state that I would like to see TYR empty, this not only helps you but me too.
Message from Austria to Italy
Hi Andy,
Beside France, everyone has written to me allready and I
really need to get on with; but first thing first, congratulation
for being part of the final draw of the previous comments
games (haven't had the time to read about how you have
done it yet, but I will surely do so at the first opportunity)!
Now, it's too early for me to make any long term plans,
but I'm one of those who believe that long lasting AI
alliance are possible. So while I agree that peace in the
short term is a must for both of us, I also think that it's
quite manageable in the long term provided we take the
necessary steps to prevent stabs.
That being said, I do have to be warry of the quick
departure we sometime see Austria suffer from. My
favourite way of taking care of that is to send my fleet
to Ven. Of course, any claim I might make on Greece
won't be as strong as if I had moved my fleet to Alb;
but I prefer to make sure we will both concentrate
exclusively on purely constructive plan.
Now, let us see how we can best collaborate. Personaly,
I'm partial to the Lepanto, with Rom going to Ven, as
Turkey is a problem that need to be dealt with early or
tolerated in the long term.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> > To AIG, a toast.....may our cooporation blossom. Together we form a
> strong centre with enough expansion possibilities without antagonising
> each other. Our backs are covered. Let us erect a shrine in TYR and may
> it never come crumbling down.
> >
>
> An excellent sentiment. I agree whole-heartedly.
>
>
Then the construction of that shrine shall be initiated immediately
as I also agree. May no army ever violate the sanctity of that
sacred place!
Message from Austria to Russia
Greeting Tzarface,
> How go things in the south? Austria is one of my favorite countries
> to play. Most people seem to be daunted by it, but for some reason I
> find the stress of the position comforting.
I suppose that as long as you can survive the early years,
you do get to enjoy the same game as everyone :-)
> I'm pretty flexible in terms of my openings. If you would like, we
> can bounce in Gal, or we can declare it a DMZ. Unsurprisingly, I'm
> going to focus on Rum initially.
Personaly, I would prefer to declare it a DMZ and learn
as soon as possible whether you can be trusted or not,
wich is usefull to know if we are to be working together;
but I did take the precaution of asking Tony about
bouncing you in Sweden if things turn sour.
> Longer term RA can be a very effective alliance, so long as we make
> sure you don't get hit by Italy in the early going, and we get a
> decent jump on Turkey so he can't hold out too long. What are you
> looking to do?
>
> I haven't heard from Turkey yet, and only got a short message from
> Andy in Italy. While I've never played with Andy before, he has a
> strong reputation, so I think he's someone to watch out for. Going
> purely by JDPR I'm someone to watch out for as well (which is the
> point I think whoever did the grey broadcast was trying to get at) so
> I don't know what you think of me. The Turk to the south is not
> someone I'm at all familiar with.
I think it's too early for me to be making plans. A Lepanto
on Andy's part sure is something I look forward to, but I
will be sending my fleet to Ven to make sure his final choice
doesn't have anything to do with an early invasion of Austria.
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Austria to Germany
> I thought that we would make our rounds and then get back to each other with more concrete measures.
Of course, but the Galician question was presented to me
and I wanted to see if it was possible to go with the dmz
instead of the bounce. This way, I at least get some early
impression of how much I can trust Russia.
> I am still in the middle of talks, even to the point where I am asking AR to work with you.
> For now Russia and I are coming to terms regarding yours and his interacting in my eyes and my first impressions following a round
of talks. As you know I have suggested to you and Italy that we work together.
> A normal opening for germany would be to den, kie and BUR or RUH depending on negotiations and gut feelings.
> If I feel all is going well with england then KIE to DEN will be the move to make. I wish things to go well with both E and F. All
Russia has asked is that I dont bounce him in Sweden, I did point out to him that this has been suggested as a course of action if
certain situations arise. We spoke openly about it. I did state that I would like to see TYR empty, this not only helps you but me
too.
In the past, I have seen german players go for the three
builds with Ruh, Hol & Kie and knowing this possibility
exist make me nervous as Austria. It's a big gamble that
can be profitable for Germany, but wich leave Austria
vulnerable to a quick departure.
Anyway, I have gone with the dmz and mentioned the
question of the bounce of Sweden to Russia; but please
keep me appraise of the destination of your fleet so I
get the chance to change my mind if I'm getting bad vibe.
Good luck with England! I wouldn't mind dealing with
a Russia who doesn't have it too easy.
Philippe
Message from Austria to France
Greeting Erik,
Just wanted to say hi and let you know I'm available if
you wish to discuss anything. Not that we have much
to discuss at the moment, but there's always bits of
informations that one find usefull.
Best regards,
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
Greeting to you too Ben,
May you keep things interesting in the north while
I try to survive! If you hear anything of interest,
please let me know and I will do the same.
Best regards,
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
Hi Philippe,
> Beside France, everyone has written to me allready and I
> really need to get on with; but first thing first, congratulation
> for being part of the final draw of the previous comments
> games (haven't had the time to read about how you have
> done it yet, but I will surely do so at the first opportunity)!
Thank you. I came on as a replacement player in Austria.
> Now, it's too early for me to make any long term plans,
> but I'm one of those who believe that long lasting AI
> alliance are possible.
As am I.
So while I agree that peace in the
> short term is a must for both of us, I also think that it's
> quite manageable in the long term provided we take the
> necessary steps to prevent stabs.
I agree.
> That being said, I do have to be warry of the quick
> departure we sometime see Austria suffer from.
I would agree with that.
My
> favourite way of taking care of that is to send my fleet
> to Ven.
That is a good way to do it, but fairly counter-productive if we are going
to work on a central powers alliance.
Of course, any claim I might make on Greece
> won't be as strong as if I had moved my fleet to Alb;
> but I prefer to make sure we will both concentrate
> exclusively on purely constructive plan.
Assuming we are going with the Central powers ...its unneccesary.
> Now, let us see how we can best collaborate. Personaly,
> I'm partial to the Lepanto,
Would you be willing to do a Key. The Turk is very inexperienced and would
likely work like a charm.
> Turkey is a problem that need to be dealt with early or
> tolerated in the long term.
Agreed.
Message from Austria to Italy
> That is a good way to do it, but fairly counter-productive if we are going
> to work on a central powers alliance.
With Rom-Ven, we only lose one move and my fleet is
free to go to Alb in the fall, no big delay here.
> Assuming we are going with the Central powers ...its unneccesary.
It is, if everyone is on the same page; but if you aren't
there yet, expecting you to ask for more time while you
contemplate invading my country wouldn't be very
realistic to say the least.
> Would you be willing to do a Key. The Turk is very inexperienced and would
> likely work like a charm.
The Key Lepanto is something I really got to try some
day, as Italy; but I have yet to find an Austria willing to
go for it. Also, this being a press game with lots of time
to review options and drop hints to other players, I
would expect someone to point him to the right article
soon enough. FTF really seem to be the place to try
this kind of tactic.
Now, I don't want to give you the impression of being
inflexible, but Tri-Ven isn't something I'm willing to
negociate because survival is my first priority at the
start of the game as Austria. I won't have as strong a
start as I could have by taking more risk, but that's ok.
Philippe
Message from France to Austria
Greetings!
> Just wanted to say hi and let you know I'm available if
> you wish to discuss anything. Not that we have much
> to discuss at the moment, but there's always bits of
> informations that one find usefull.
>
There's always things to discuss, Phillipe. We've got plenty of common
neighbors, and I'm guessing we're already talking to both of them.
I don't really know Tony, who's playing Germany, too well, but I've faced
off against Andy a number of times and have a bit of a feel for how he
plays. The last game I played against him, I made a fatal error and left
an opening that he took great advantage of. Don't make the same mistake,
my friend.
From what I can tell right now, Italy sees Germany as a big long-term
threat, and would like to see him tied up in a squabble with as many
people as possible. He's certainly been goading England and I into early
animosity with him. Whether this is because Andy wants to head east and
needs the West off his back or because he wants to attack me and needs me
distracted I don't know, but I'll be keeping my eye on my southern centers
nevertheless.
Naturally, a better understanding of your relationship with Italy will
greatly improve my standings with him, so any information you can provide
me would be appreciated. I would suggest that, even if we're both friendly
with Italy, we agree now not to let him get control of the Mediterranean --
that spells trouble for both of us.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> Naturally, a better understanding of your relationship with Italy will
> greatly improve my standings with him, so any information you can provide
> me would be appreciated. I would suggest that, even if we're both friendly
> with Italy, we agree now not to let him get control of the Mediterranean --
> that spells trouble for both of us.
Agreed. At the moment, I'm on good term with Andy;
but have you ever seen Austria complain of Italy's
hostility in spring 1901 ;-)
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> > That is a good way to do it, but fairly counter-productive if we are going
> > to work on a central powers alliance.
>
> With Rom-Ven, we only lose one move and my fleet is
> free to go to Alb in the fall, no big delay here.
Its the difference between building 1 and 2 in W01', that sounds fairly
major to me.
> > Assuming we are going with the Central powers ...its unneccesary.
>
> It is, if everyone is on the same page; but if you aren't
> there yet, expecting you to ask for more time while you
> contemplate invading my country wouldn't be very
> realistic to say the least.
I am completely with the idea, but limiting my moves *just because* doesnt
sit very well with me.
You have two other fronts to deal with, why do you want to be so paranoid
on my front.
> > Would you be willing to do a Key. The Turk is very inexperienced and would
> > likely work like a charm.
>
> The Key Lepanto is something I really got to try some
> day, as Italy; but I have yet to find an Austria willing to
> go for it. Also, this being a press game with lots of time
> to review options and drop hints to other players, I
> would expect someone to point him to the right article
> soon enough. FTF really seem to be the place to try
> this kind of tactic.
Ive done it successfully as both powers both online and ftf.
> Now, I don't want to give you the impression of being
> inflexible, but Tri-Ven isn't something I'm willing to
> negociate because survival is my first priority at the
> start of the game as Austria. I won't have as strong a
> start as I could have by taking more risk, but that's ok.
Well...you are strongly re-enforcing the impression that you do not
wish to.
You are holding 2 of my units hostage and saying ...you will do this MY
way....and that is not the way to have an healthy relationship.
Andy
Message from Russia to Austria
>Personaly, I would prefer to declare it a DMZ and learn
>as soon as possible whether you can be trusted or not,
>wich is usefull to know if we are to be working together;
>but I did take the precaution of asking Tony about
>bouncing you in Sweden if things turn sour.
Fair enough. So for now let's plan on it being a DMZ. I also like the
opportunity to develop some trust early on. I do understand that a bounce
could be a resource strain if you are also looking to bounce with Ven.
We can confirm DMZ vs. bounce in a day or so after we've had a chance to
hear more from our neighbors. Sound good?
--- Tzarface
Message from Austria to Russia
> We can confirm DMZ vs. bounce in a day or so after we've had a chance to
> hear more from our neighbors. Sound good?
Yes, perfect. How are things going in the north?
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
I missed part of the conversation or am having trouble diluting who said
what.
Experience tells me that AI are made for each other.
The two of you state that you are on the same page as I am when it comes to
a central alliance.
What moves have been suggested?
The Turk has mentioned the KEY to me, he is aware of it. He also said that
he and Russia are not yet fully alligned.
I suggest Austria sort out a DMZ in GAL and offter an offensive against
Turkey to Russia. I am pushing the Russian for a northern opening. He wont
be able to go for GAL and a northern opening. He started off stating an
offensive in the south. This is bad news for me and Austria. By south he
could mean RT or RA. If its RA then no problem there for Austria.
If we combine it all then its also in Austria interest to have the Russian
open to the north. The DMZ in GAL plays an important part. WAR - UKR in an
RA alliance allows the GIA to get off to a good start. I can concentrate
west with Italy and the pair of you can concentrate east. It also opens up
the possibility of AG moving North East when the time arrives to do so.
I certainly dont see Italy invading Austria, this usually ends in dissatser
for Italy and Austria usually does a U-turn and ensures that both powers are
removed. Let me know if I can be of any help in move negotiations. From the
press I just received I cant make out what was said before it regarding
moves.
If neither of you have concrete plans with any other neighbour then now is
the time to work on an AI plan based on trust.
OK, its diplomacy but dont let paranoia set in in the spring of 1901. If all
goes foul use revenge and get even. The surrounding neighbours will be more
than willing to pounce. Lets set the GIA foundation in solid cement from the
word go. The sping of 1901 is usually a dice game anyway. All of us will be
tempted by all offers made but if we stick to sorting this out during the
coming days then I am sure we will succeed.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
(Just read Tony's reply as I was ready to send this. Seem my
style of play for Austria, is too conservative but will it be that
much of a problem? I assure you that my paranoia is very
limited and I'm not about to spend the rest of the game sitting
over my homeland to protect all my precious sc ;-) I would
normally agree with the revenge argument, but I don't think
Austria really has the time to get his revenge if he's stab right
away.)
Andy (with copy to Tony),
Maybe I'm being paranoid, but it's not limited to your front.
I have also asked Tony about bouncing Russia in Sweden if
he try to enter Galicia. I assure you that it has nothing to do
with you or anyone else. Without some tactical play, I don't
think Austria can ever prevent his quick elimination. You
may have all the right feeling and be sure of your diplomacy,
but a concerted attack by Italy & Russia will show you the
door before you can do anything about it, the perfect stab.
I may be wrong and will learn to change my mind about this
in time; but for the moment, this is how I feel. Of course, this
limit my diplomacy and prevent me from being as flexible as
you might want; but this is a short term occurence that does
not limit you that much.
The sending of my fleet to Venice doesn't preclude you from
attacking France or Turkey. A move to Pie is rarely followed
by a second when the first one succeed and it's not possible
to convoy two armies in 1901 with only one fleet. Whatever
is done, one italian armies always remain around Venice at the
end of 1901, unless it is roaming in Austria with or without
his permission.
My hope is that you will accept to open with a Lepanto, but
I don't expect you to do so simply because I'm suggesting it.
If an invasion of France is more appealing to you then moving
against Turkey, then I will have to see how I can change that
and it will be my loss if I can't.
Philippe.
P.-S. Regarding the lost of one build, I would point out that
with Turkey as a target, there ain't much place to move to for
armies going south and a delay of one move would still allow
my fleet to be in position to support Ion-Aeg from Greece in
the fall.
Message from Germany to Austria, Italy, and Russia
Hi guys, seperately we speak of having interest in a DMZ in GAL, TYR, SIL,
BOH, PRU. I feel we need reassuring that this is the case. As we are working
on plans for all 4 of us then maybe all of us should agree that if one of us
doesnt stick to a DMZ (GAL/SIL/PRU/BOH/TYR) then the remaining powers will
come to each others aid.
Its war and there are seven powers, we need to start hammering out a code of
conduct to ensure future colaboration.
We need to knock the number of powers down asap and ensure we have a broad
alliance to do so. So far GIA have been trying to coordinate plans. So has
Austria and Russia and Germany and Russia. With Russia on board then we can
at least build on a 4 some to start off with.
This leaves EFT as the targets. Something which should suit all of us as
they are in remote corners in relation to the 4 of us. With 3 of us pounding
Turkey, two of us pounding England, and two of us pounding France then we
run little risk.
A well coordinated 4 way alliance right now would minimize our risks. To
further enforce our strategy Russia and Germany need to make concrete plans
in the north. As does Germany Italy in the west. The three of you can easily
coordinate against biddy widdy Turkey in the corner.
Even the intention to work together and sticking to open communication is a
big step forward. Overcome paranoia and lets get this spring 1901 move off
to a good start for the 4 of us. Let me know guys. Press all 4 of us. The
more we talk openly the mopre we coordinate and can help each other overcome
initial reservations.
Tony
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> What moves have been suggested?
>
Philippe is insisting on moving TRI - VEN in S01'
This leaves me in a spot.
It pins down one or both of my armies for the entire first year of the
game.
He is also insisting that I Lepanto.....and using the logic that a Key
would be leaked to the Turk regardless.....
If your concern is that the Key will be leaked, the other powers will see
a Lepanto on the horizon and make plans to defend it.
There are meta-gaming issues with attacking France.
I am going to leave Venice in place for the whole year, that way I can
actually do something with my other army, or I can just attack Trieste in
defense and turn this into a much bigger mess than it needs to be.
Or maybe I am over-reacting....or maybe I just dont like to be told what
to do......or maybe I dont like to be told that my *ally* is attacking me
and its defensive and for my own good.
We are either allies or we arent, and if we are, then there is ABSOLUTELY
ZERO reason for the move, and if we arent then I just want to know ahead
of time.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Remember that GIA are the heart of the central alliance. Russia joining is
is purely cosmetic but does aid our cause.
If he remianed part of the central alliance then Austria would have nowhere
to go once Turkey falls.
We just need Russia to stick with Austria for the first year. He will no
doubt spot the flaw in the 4 way but we can rest assure him that there is
growth in scandinavia and england. We will just be expanding the central
powers borders when the time arrives.
Philippe, I understand your feeling but if Austria is ment to fall then it
will be at the hands of RIT. They usually slice you up. An italian push into
Austria (ven - tri, rom - ven) leaves plenty of space for retaliation. You
would still have 3 units if you bounce yourseff in GAL (vie & bud) to GAL
and move TRI - ALB. This leaves you 3 against his two. Russia would pick up
any advantage and Italy would be left without a build if he had to use ION
to cut support from ALB.
Its just to messy even with Russias help. I dont want to get into scenarios.
I am looking for a common trust amongst two or three powers (prefably 4) to
ensure a quick start. You havent expressed fears towards me and I would push
for TYR if Italy attacks you.
If you invite him in then thats another matter of course.
Moves wise we can always work out any deep concerns. If worst comes to the
worst just have ven hold and move nap - ion and rom - apu. I would attack
any austrian unit in TYR, I dont mind VEN not moving on PIE if it sorts out
the AI situation. My main aim is the basis for cooporation and the central
power alliance. If we have to wait till fall then so be it.
Lets see how the GAIR develops as well. Maybe more communication will ease
initial concerns.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> Maybe I'm being paranoid, but it's not limited to your front.
> I have also asked Tony about bouncing Russia in Sweden if
> he try to enter Galicia. I assure you that it has nothing to do
> with you or anyone else. Without some tactical play, I don't
> think Austria can ever prevent his quick elimination. You
> may have all the right feeling and be sure of your diplomacy,
> but a concerted attack by Italy & Russia will show you the
> door before you can do anything about it, the perfect stab.
You usually have to have 3 on board to eliminate Austria in the way you
describe.
>
> I may be wrong and will learn to change my mind about this
> in time; but for the moment, this is how I feel. Of course, this
> limit my diplomacy and prevent me from being as flexible as
> you might want; but this is a short term occurence that does
> not limit you that much.
I disagree....but will work with you on it.
> The sending of my fleet to Venice doesn't preclude you from
> attacking France or Turkey.
How so?
If I want to move to Piedmont, I cant, without leaving my armies in Rome
and Piedmont.
A move to Pie is rarely followed
> by a second when the first one succeed and it's not possible
> to convoy two armies in 1901 with only one fleet. Whatever
> is done, one italian armies always remain around Venice at the
> end of 1901, unless it is roaming in Austria with or without
> his permission.
No....I could be in an Alpine Chicken.
> My hope is that you will accept to open with a Lepanto, but
> I don't expect you to do so simply because I'm suggesting it.
> If an invasion of France is more appealing to you then moving
> against Turkey, then I will have to see how I can change that
> and it will be my loss if I can't.
I will do the lepanto....I dont particurally like it, but I will do it.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> Remember that GIA are the heart of the central alliance. Russia joining is
> is purely cosmetic but does aid our cause.
Correct.
> If he remianed part of the central alliance then Austria would have nowhere
> to go once Turkey falls.
Correct.
> We just need Russia to stick with Austria for the first year. He will no
> doubt spot the flaw in the 4 way but we can rest assure him that there is
> growth in scandinavia and england. We will just be expanding the central
> powers borders when the time arrives.
That works.
> Philippe, I understand your feeling but if Austria is ment to fall then it
> will be at the hands of RIT. They usually slice you up. An italian push into
> Austria (ven - tri, rom - ven) leaves plenty of space for retaliation.
Its really easy to kick me out....and we both die.
You
> would still have 3 units if you bounce yourseff in GAL (vie & bud) to GAL
> and move TRI - ALB. This leaves you 3 against his two. Russia would pick up
> any advantage and Italy would be left without a build if he had to use ION
> to cut support from ALB.
Well....it you are going to relagate yourself to one build anyway....do
the full hedgehog....
Tri - Ven
Vie and Bud bounce in Galacia, you still get Serbia in the fall
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
(I just read the follow up on this crisis and I wish to thank
Andy for agreeing to the Lepanto, but I don't want him to
feel compel to. I assure you that I'm willing to discuss the
problem created by Tri-Ven and see what can be done
about it. As for the Alpine Chicken being a possibility that
is blocked by Tri-Ven, I agree; but having used it to hide
an attack on Austria in the past, I won't pretend to be sorry
to see it blocked.)
The only thing I'm insisting on is Tri-Ven and it is a defensive
move done for my own peace of mind with no accusation of
any actual intent on Andy's part. If you think this is an attack,
explain to me what it is achieving offensive wise?
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
OK, we seem to be getting somewhere. If TRI - VEN is a definite then at
least it holds no surprises.
Can we work from here?
rom - ven, tri - ven bounce
nap - ion or tys (convoy nap to tun)
ven - pie
or
ven hold
rom - apu
nap - ion
Any move will do as long as you two are in agreement. Its not the basis for
a trustworthy start but Italy cant ignore the tri - ven move.
Are we going to continue down this avenue or are all bets off between ai?
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> Can we work from here?
yes...
>
> Any move will do as long as you two are in agreement. Its not the basis for
> a trustworthy start but Italy cant ignore the tri - ven move.
And since the Alpine Chicken is always the subterfuge to attack Austria
with, I wont do that either.
> Are we going to continue down this avenue or are all bets off between ai?
I am doing a plain, boring lepanto.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> I am doing a plain, boring lepanto.
Do you mean:
Sprin -Rom-Ven (bounce), Ven-Apu & Nap-Ion
Fall -Rom-Ven (succeed), Apu-Ion-Tun & Ion c Apu-Tun
or
Spring -Ven hold or Ven-Tri, Rom-Apu & Nap-Ion
Fal l-Ven hold or Ven-Tri, Apu-ion-Tun & Ion c Apu-tun
I'm ok with both and will go with Andy's choice. With the
first, I'm free to send my fleet to Alb in the fall. With the
second, for what it's worth, we can simulate a conflict.
Philippe.
P.-S. Any news from Russia?
Message from Austria to Austria
I was about to comment on the sheer stupidity of GIAR
for me when I got Germany's follow up for GIA. Glad
to see he doesn't take me for a fool, at least not to my
face.
My plan, other then the strong desire to survive that I
have been repeating ad nauseam, is to attack Russia
with Turkey and Turkey with Italy.
If Turkey isn't taken out, I have no chance to solo. An
AT can give me a strong position, but not one strong
enough to go after a good Turkey without help.
On the other hand, if I limit myself to taking Turkey out
with the help of Russia & Italy, geography will dictate
who's the next to fall :-(
Ideally, I would wish to see Russia involved in the north
so I don't have to wait too long before also moving
against Turkey, but I'm not too hopefull given the level
of play in this game.
While I probably shouldn't even consider it anymore
following Andy's reaction to Tri-Ven, I'm still tempted
to go along with the dmz in Gal. With Vie-Bud to go
with Bud-Ser, I still have a shot at two builds. If I'm
able to get Turkey to open with a full attack on Russia,
I can go for Rum with Turkey's support in exchange for
supporting him in Sev next year. If he doesn't, then I
can go for Greece and see who denies it to me.
Now, what to do if Turkey doesn't come up with the
attack on Russia? I really want him to open to Bla &
Arm, but since he seem competent, pushing for it only
make it less probable. Suppose I will have to wait for
him to get back to me to figure this out.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
this isnt helping the whole *trust* thing at all.
>
> Spring -Ven hold or Ven-Tri, Rom-Apu & Nap-Ion
> Fal l-Ven hold or Ven-Tri, Apu-ion-Tun & Ion c Apu-tun
I will be holding unless I see something in Tyrolia.
>
> I'm ok with both and will go with Andy's choice. With the
> first, I'm free to send my fleet to Alb in the fall. With the
> second, for what it's worth, we can simulate a conflict.
And I reserve the right to just take Tunis with the fleet if I dont like
what I see.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> I will be holding unless I see something in Tyrolia.
> And I reserve the right to just take Tunis with the fleet if I dont like
> what I see.
Understood. Suggesting we simulate a conflict might
not have been appropriate given the context, but I
was only spelling out options (if my fleet is sitting in
Trieste this fall, she's available to support Ven, hold
or repeat Tri-Ven, but I will simply hold). I assure
you I had no ulterior motive here and I apologize if
I gave you that impression.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Italy
Andy,
Does it make sense to you that I trust you and believe
we can work together for our mutual benefit; but that
at the same time, I don't trust Italy in 1901?
I will of course accept that it's hard to return distrust
with anything but distrust; but I assure you this is only
short term and not aimed at you personaly but at the
power you are playing.
In the mean time, I will take whatever you have to give
and hope for better times,
Philippe
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
Glad to know you're getting along with Andy. He tore me up last game, so
maybe I'm just feeling a little wary toward him. The cryptic references he
and Germany are making to one another probably aren't helping.
Anyway, there's not much new to report in the west. England, Germany and I
are working out the details of Belgium occupation; I suspect it will end
up English in the interests of at least temporary peace. I get the
impression that everyone is worried about Tony (Germany), so that
certainly helps my chances. As long as there's no EG, I'm home free, right?
Any word from Russia or Turkey?
Erik
Message from Italy to Austria
> In the mean time, I will take whatever you have to give
> and hope for better times,
Philippe,
I have understood completely from the beginning.
And you have proven to me that you are as good a player as your reputation
speaks.
I think we are going to get along for a good long time.
take care
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
> I have understood completely from the beginning.
Doesn't hurt to make sure ;-)
> And you have proven to me that you are as good a player as your reputation
> speaks.
I allready have a reputation? I just started playing
diplomacy on the internet last year and I wasn't
under the impression I had a reputation yet.
> I think we are going to get along for a good long time.
Looking forward to it,
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
>How are things going in the north?
Things in the north are going fine, but in my experience things are always
fine before moves are made.
What do you think of Germany's suggestion? In principle I'm very happy to
promise all three of you (GIA) that I will not go to Gal, Pru or Sil if
that's what our final agreements are (you and I may still decide to bounce
in Gal). But I don't know Germany or Italy so well to know if it makes
sense to tie all of our actions together. Do you think we need a four way
agreement to be able to cooperate?
Just trying to figure out whether this is something that is Germany's idea,
or something that GIA all support.
Thanks,
--- Tzarface
Message from Austria to Russia
> Things in the north are going fine, but in my experience things are always
> fine before moves are made.
Same feeling in regard of Italy. Also, while I much prefer to
see you go for Sev-Bla & Mos-Sev if you can get away
with it, I'm fine with seeing you take care of your northern
interest with Mos-Sev; but in the long run, I do expect you
to actively cooperate with me in the south and not simply
use me to contain Turkey ;-) Not that I believe this would
actually happen, but better safe then sorry.
> What do you think of Germany's suggestion? In principle I'm very happy to
> promise all three of you (GIA) that I will not go to Gal, Pru or Sil if
> that's what our final agreements are (you and I may still decide to bounce
> in Gal). But I don't know Germany or Italy so well to know if it makes
> sense to tie all of our actions together. Do you think we need a four way
> agreement to be able to cooperate?
No I don't; but since it's there I will take it.
> Just trying to figure out whether this is something that is Germany's idea,
> or something that GIA all support.
It's Germany's idea and I will go along with it. If GIA allow
me to work with you without having to worry about my
back, I'm not about to complain; but I'm not about to limit
RA's collaboration to what GIAR think is appropriate.
Since we are talking of Germany, what do you think of
France and England? Tony is obviously an expert diplomat
and I was wondering about Ben and Erik. Will they be up
to the task or should I be warry of having to deal with a
strong Germany at my back soon?
Philippe
Message from Austria to Turkey
Hi Jason,
So, how's you negociation been going? Has Russia
professed his intent to leave the Black Sea alone
and sung the joy of the Juggernaut alliance yet ;-)
For my part, I think I was able to insure I wasn't
going to fall early, so our discussions aren't going to
be a big waste of time for you.
Best regards,
Philippe
Message from England to all
Gentlemen -
I have out of town company this weekend & will not likely be available
until about 36 hour from now. Which is roughly a day and a half, in Tony's
time.
Thank you for your patience.
Ben
Message from Austria to France
> impression that everyone is worried about Tony (Germany), so that
> certainly helps my chances. As long as there's no EG, I'm home free, right?
Given Tony's caliber, I doubt he would enter into a very restrictive
EG alliance with provision against the building of german fleets; but
this doesn't mean you aren't at risk of being attack by him anyway.
It's just that his game probably won't be limited to attacking you if
he does start that way.
> Any word from Russia or Turkey?
Talked to both, but haven't made my mind about them yet. What's
your first impression of them?
Philippe
Message from Turkey to Austria
Good to hear from you.
Russia has been friendly, but I'm being cautious, as I should. RT is
more myth than fact, anyway.
Glad to hear that you've secured your future. Where that does leave you
free to turn?
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Russia has been friendly, but I'm being cautious, as I should. RT is
> more myth than fact, anyway.
It sometime work for Russia, rarely for Turkey.
> Glad to hear that you've secured your future. Where that does leave you
> free to turn?
Anywhere. I made sure I would have a future, not that
it would be a prosperous one. Once I see that my
efforts to prevent my quick elimination have paid up,
then I will be free to improve my lot.
In the mean time, I would appreciate your letting me
know more about your own position. For example,
we have discussed Rumania & Greece, but your
position is still unclear. I told you I have no preference
between either of them, but if Rumania is not open
because it's not going to be constested to Russia, then
I would hope to get Greece without risking a conflict
with you.
At the moment, we are far from the "solid agreement"
you talked about and I hope it's not because it's been
made with someone else ;-)
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Turkey to Austria
> In the mean time, I would appreciate your letting me
> know more about your own position.
I understand your concern. Briefly, I don't have any solid agreements
right now, just a bunch of we'll-see's and hope-so's. Russia and I are
bouncing in BLA, so he won't be taking Rum in the spring. If you want to
try for it in the fall, I'm more than happy for you to have it and I
take Greece.
Obviously, if Russia gets Rum and you get Ser and Gre, that leaves me at
somewhat of a disadvantage. I'd prefer to avoid that.
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
> I understand your concern. Briefly, I don't have any solid agreements
> right now, just a bunch of we'll-see's and hope-so's. Russia and I are
> bouncing in BLA, so he won't be taking Rum in the spring. If you want to
> try for it in the fall, I'm more than happy for you to have it and I
> take Greece.
Thing is, without a commitment to war against Russia
on your part, I don't see myself contesting Rumania.
> Obviously, if Russia gets Rum and you get Ser and Gre, that leaves me at
> somewhat of a disadvantage. I'd prefer to avoid that.
I would also prefer we both get 2 builds, but without
some kind of plan for Rumania, it's not going to happen.
So, what are you suggesting? Would you prefer we both
get to be 4 sc power while Russia goes from 4 to 6?
Philippe
Message from Turkey to Austria
There's no plan for Rumania that I can see that will guarantee us both 2
builds. Even if you move to Bud and Ser, Russia can bounce you with Sev
and Ukr. If I support you from Bul, I don't get Gre.
Obviously, we can do the reverse (you get Gre, I get Rum) if you move
Tri to Alb. That also assumes you aren't bouncing Russia in Gal.
Without knowing how you and Russia will move in the spring, it's hard to
plan.
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
I'm afraid you're right about us getting two build each this
year being unprobable. When I wrote it, I forgot that it
implied your getting in the Black Sea, sorry about that. At
most, we can hope to balance things out within a few years.
Still, what do we do? If we only play the wait and see game,
handling Russia won't get easier. He will expand faster then
us, or at least one of us, and be able to count on Italy.
I kind of see three possibilities:
-One of us get Greece and the other hope the build is going
to be use against Russia instead of himself.
-We make sure of remaining on equal footing for the moment
by bouncing over Greece.
-We agree right away on an anti-russian strategy that would
block his expansion and allow us to make gains at his expense.
In case you wonder, I would be ok with your getting Sev & Gre
while I get Rum and your assistance to pursue into Russia.
Philippe
Message from Turkey to Austria
If you're ok giving me Sev and Gre, I'm more than happy to work with you
on Rum and beyond. I'll certainly make sure to put my builds to good use.
jason
Message from France to Austria
>
> Talked to both, but haven't made my mind about them yet.
> What's your first impression of them?
Not much yet. Russia's been friendly, but Turkey hasn't offered a whole
lot that I can go with. My impression is the Eric is still getting a
feel for the situation, while Turkey doesn't see the point in spending
too much time talking to me. Still early, though.
Erik
Message from Austria to Turkey
> If you're ok giving me Sev and Gre, I'm more than happy to work with you
> on Rum and beyond. I'll certainly make sure to put my builds to good use.
Then we go anti-russian right away. You open to arm and position
yourselves for getting Sev next year and we work on Rumania this
year. Next year, Greece and Sev are taken by you, balancing the
fact I may get one more sc then you in 1901, and the years after
you support me in Moscow, balancing things out yet again.
Is that the way you were seeing it or do you have a better plan?
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> May you keep things interesting in the north while
> I try to survive!
Thanks. I've always had trouble playing Austria. I hope I'll learn
something from you.
> If you hear anything of interest,
> please let me know and I will do the same.
I certainly will. What do you hear from Germany?
Good luck.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> Thanks. I've always had trouble playing Austria. I hope I'll learn
> something from you.
Austria isn't my cup of tea either, so don't hesitate
to make suggestions.
> I certainly will. What do you hear from Germany?
Not much for the moment, but he did say he was in
good term with you. Is this how you would
characterize your relationsip?
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Austria isn't my cup of tea either, so don't hesitate
> to make suggestions.
Diplomacy diplomacy diplomacy. Look at your Turk, your German, your
Russian, your Italian. Work against the one who you trust the least & pray
the others do not jump on you. I tell you this because I read it. So far,
as Austria, nothing works for me. :-)
> > I certainly will. What do you hear from Germany?
>
> Not much for the moment, but he did say he was in
> good term with you. Is this how you would
> characterize your relationsip?
Yes I agree. I'm pleased to hear he said it - hopefully it means he won't
be jumping on me right out of the gate. He seems pretty experienced & has
offered some good advice.
In your theater, I believe there will be a bounce in the Black Sea.
Good luck!
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> Diplomacy diplomacy diplomacy. Look at your Turk, your German, your
> Russian, your Italian. Work against the one who you trust the least & pray
> the others do not jump on you. I tell you this because I read it. So far,
> as Austria, nothing works for me. :-)
Thanks, let's hope things go well for me in this game.
> Yes I agree. I'm pleased to hear he said it - hopefully it means he won't
> be jumping on me right out of the gate. He seems pretty experienced & has
> offered some good advice.
>
> In your theater, I believe there will be a bounce in the Black Sea.
What do you make of that bounce in the Black Sea?
If an RT alliance is in the making, I would like to know
about it as soon as possible, not that expect them to let
you in on it as it would also hurt you; but if you are
getting bad vibes about it, then don't hesitate to share.
I might not do anything about it right away, but it can
help put things in perspective. Also, since it's going well
between you and Germany, can I expect you to take
care of Russia in the north if needs be?
Philippe
Message from Turkey to Austria
Hmmm, interesting plan.
I had though more of opening to Bul, Bla and Con, and in the fall,
supporting you into Rum while going for Bla. Either you get Rum or I get
Bla, and my builds let me go after Russia. Opening to Arm seems very
obvious. We might not want to let Russia know what's on immediately.
jason
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> > In your theater, I believe there will be a bounce in the Black Sea.
>
> What do you make of that bounce in the Black Sea?
> If an RT alliance is in the making, I would like to know
> about it as soon as possible, not that expect them to let
> you in on it as it would also hurt you; but if you are
> getting bad vibes about it, then don't hesitate to share.
I don't have any particularly strong feelings about alliance structure in
the East, except for this: I /do not want/ an RT. You and I would be the
first victims - you are their target in common, and the RT calls for Russia
to become an Atlantic power - very bad news for me.
I do not think - yet - that Turkey has decided what he wants. He did
mention you were asking for cooperation against Russia & I encouraged him to
work with you. But I do not know what he will do. At this stage I think
(hope) that the bounce in Black Sea is just them trying to keep their
options open & protect themselves.
> I might not do anything about it right away, but it can
> help put things in perspective. Also, since it's going well
> between you and Germany, can I expect you to take
> care of Russia in the north if needs be?
Oh yes.
Ben
Message from Austria to Turkey
> I had though more of opening to Bul, Bla and Con, and in the fall,
> supporting you into Rum while going for Bla. Either you get Rum or I get
> Bla, and my builds let me go after Russia. Opening to Arm seems very
> obvious. We might not want to let Russia know what's on immediately.
I don't think there's any element of surprise to lose here. With
or without a move to Arm, Russia usually support himself to
Rumania and cooperation is needed to blocked it.
Also, if you only go with the moves to Bul & Con, it will be
hard for me to risk attacking Russia when you can simply
ditch me and go for Gre & Bul. Remember, I'm not the one
with the strong defensive position here.
Getting back to tactics, there's also good reasons for going to
Arm instead of Con. Once Russia see the attack, the move to
Arm won't be a sure thing anymore and will probably need to
be supported to succeed, delaying your expansion. Also, your
presence in Arm this spring will complicate Russia's defence,
wich make sure of the Black Sea and give us a very good
chance of getting Rumania (compare to only hoping for one or
the other). Lastly, there's not much use for the move to Con,
except to give you the option of ditching me. I don't see how
an army in Greece can be of assistance in your invasion the
Med. and a fleet in Sev sure won't be able to support my
progress in Russia.
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
Thanks Ben,
It's good to know I can count on you.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
> It's good to know I can count on you.
You bet. Try to figure out Austria for the both of us & grow. I'm looking
forward to working with you.
Ben
Message from Turkey to Austria
Very well then, A Smy - Arm is ordered.
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Very well then, A Smy - Arm is ordered.
OK. If there's anything else you wish to discuss, let me know.
Philippe.
P.-S. Heard anything interesting regarding the rest of the board?
Message from Turkey to Austria
I've heard from everyone else a little bit, but nothing too surprising.
EFG seem somewhat divided, so I'm not sure who's going after whom. Italy
has talked some, but nothing in-depth. Russia, of course, has been
asking me to work with him.
So, you do seem secure for the first few turns, at least.
jason
Message from Austria to Turkey
> I've heard from everyone else a little bit, but nothing too surprising.
> EFG seem somewhat divided, so I'm not sure who's going after whom. Italy
> has talked some, but nothing in-depth. Russia, of course, has been
> asking me to work with him.
>
> So, you do seem secure for the first few turns, at least.
Glad to hear it :-) England did say he might be able to go
after Russia; but I suppose it all depend on what happen
west.
Philippe
Message from England to all
Greetings one and all. Company's gone & the house is quiet, but tomorrow
will probably be pretty busy, so forgive me if response time lags.
Ben
Message from Russia to Austria
>Also, while I much prefer to
>see you go for Sev-Bla & Mos-Sev if you can get away
>with it
Sev-Bla for sure. But it's virtually guaranteed to bounce, so I haven't
decided about Mos yet.
>in the long run, I do expect you
>to actively cooperate with me in the south and not simply
>use me to contain Turkey ;-) Not that I believe this would
>actually happen, but better safe then sorry.
No worries there, I'm much more worried about having you around to contain
Andy. :)
Seriously, I can understand that this could be a worry of yours. I'm much
more interested in seeing us both get established in the south and moving
*away* from each other than sitting around embroiled in the south while
Andy and Tony stabilize the west and come after us.
>>Do you think we need a four way agreement to be able to cooperate?
>
>No I don't; but since it's there I will take it.
>[...]
>It's Germany's idea and I will go along with it. If GIA allow
>me to work with you without having to worry about my
>back, I'm not about to complain; but I'm not about to limit
>RA's collaboration to what GIAR think is appropriate.
Gotcha. The thing that was confusing to me is that both you and I agreed in
our last exchange that we would revisit later whether we both wanted a DMZ
or a bounce. Having the decision "made" by a third party was surprising to
me, and I wondered if it was a sign that you have some serious reservation
about me that made you go to him to negotiate instead of coming to me.
To be clear, I don't have a problem with the GRIA "pact", I was just
worried that it indicated that you were uncomfortable negotiating with me.
Shall I take this as a sign that you really want the DMZ and not the bounce?
>Since we are talking of Germany, what do you think of
>France and England? Tony is obviously an expert diplomat
>and I was wondering about Ben and Erik. Will they be up
>to the task or should I be warry of having to deal with a
>strong Germany at my back soon?
I can't tell. I think both England and France are being flexible. My
concern is that, yes, Germany may be able to take advantage of their casual
attitudes. Though frankly I'm more worried about having a strong Germany at
*my* back than I am about having him at *your* back. For you, I'd be more
worried about Andy, but I think Andy and Tony have the ability to
coordinate such things, and as such would see either of them doing well as
a concern for both of us.
--- Tzarface
Message from Austria to Russia
> Gotcha. The thing that was confusing to me is that both you and I agreed in
> our last exchange that we would revisit later whether we both wanted a DMZ
> or a bounce. Having the decision "made" by a third party was surprising to
> me, and I wondered if it was a sign that you have some serious reservation
> about me that made you go to him to negotiate instead of coming to me.
>
> To be clear, I don't have a problem with the GRIA "pact", I was just
> worried that it indicated that you were uncomfortable negotiating with me.
>
> Shall I take this as a sign that you really want the DMZ and not the bounce?
I should probably have been more clear. I'm still waiting for you
to get back to me about Galicia. I really don't see a problem
with an organize bounce over a dmz and I don't think Germany's
statement was against it either.
So please don't let someone else interfere with our relationship,
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
>I should probably have been more clear. I'm still waiting for you
>to get back to me about Galicia. I really don't see a problem
>with an organize bounce over a dmz and I don't think Germany's
>statement was against it either.
Gotcha. I'm fine with a DMZ there. And since it does allow us to establish
some trust that's a bonus as well.
>So please don't let someone else interfere with our relationship,
Thanks, I appreciate the clarification(s).
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Germany
Hi Tony,
Unless you heard something else from Andy, I think that while
tense because of my insistence on Tri-Ven, GIA is going to
work out. As for Russia, he seem to be going along with it, but
I will be more confortable once you confirm Kie-Den to me.
On your side, how are things going?
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria
I have spoken to Russia, he informed me that the pair of you were still working on the GAL situation (to bounce or not to bounce).
Apart from that I am still awaiting some communication to confirm the cooporation between all 4 of us else AIG go it alone and await Russia's spring moves.
I am still in negotiations with Russia, he ofcourse is insisting that I dont bounce him in Sweden. I said that I would not as long as I had no reason to do so. I also coupled the AR coming to agreemnt on GAL as part of this agreement. So if he does doubble cross you then you can count on me.
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
I know you've said things are just fine with Andy, but since he's a mutual
problem, I really think we need to be as open with each other about our
plans and relationship with him as we can. Even if one or both of us is
working with him right off the bat in '01, Italy generally becomes a
headache for both of us at some point.
If you and Italy have agreed to team up and head in opposite directions,
do you really want to see Italy succeed wildly in his attack against me
and suddenly jump to five or six centers in the first couple of years? I
think not. It's in your interest for me to be prepared.
I can tell you this much about my plans: I'm not going to attack Andy
unless I really think he's planning to head west. I've got enough
headaches sorting out Germany and England's various demands over Belgium
(they both want it, but England will probably end up with it) while making
sure they don't get too cozy. If I have to protect against an Italian
attack, it's going to leave a door open for the two of them to work
together.
As far as Andy's press to me goes -- well, he's not the most talkative of
neighbors, as I'm sure you know. He's promised me over and over that I
don't have to worry about an attack from him, and he's agreed to a few
DMZs. If he's being honest, that leaves two options -- you and Turkey. So,
unless you're coordinating an attack on Turkey with him, I wouldn't leave
Trieste too wide open.
Please help me with whatever information you can about his opening. It's
in both our interests to have an eye on both sides of him. I'll let you
know anything I might find out about his plans, as well.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
First, let me thank you for giving me your impression of RT.
Even if it didn't give me much to go on, I still appreciated it.
Now for your questions:
> I know you've said things are just fine with Andy, but since he's a mutual
> problem, I really think we need to be as open with each other about our
> plans and relationship with him as we can. Even if one or both of us is
> working with him right off the bat in '01, Italy generally becomes a
> headache for both of us at some point.
Since I told you so, things have become more tense between
Andy and I. It still look allright, but he seem frustated that I
wasn't ready to trust him as much as he wanted. Will see what
happen, but we are on the same page regarding Italy.
> If you and Italy have agreed to team up and head in opposite directions,
> do you really want to see Italy succeed wildly in his attack against me
> and suddenly jump to five or six centers in the first couple of years? I
> think not. It's in your interest for me to be prepared.
If I hear anything, I will be sure to let you know; but I doubt
he would let me in on a plan to invade France at the moment.
> I can tell you this much about my plans: I'm not going to attack Andy
> unless I really think he's planning to head west. I've got enough
> headaches sorting out Germany and England's various demands over Belgium
> (they both want it, but England will probably end up with it) while making
> sure they don't get too cozy. If I have to protect against an Italian
> attack, it's going to leave a door open for the two of them to work
> together.
That's perfectly normal. I don't think anyone expect France to
go after Italy right off the bat.
> As far as Andy's press to me goes -- well, he's not the most talkative of
> neighbors, as I'm sure you know. He's promised me over and over that I
> don't have to worry about an attack from him, and he's agreed to a few
> DMZs. If he's being honest, that leaves two options -- you and Turkey. So,
> unless you're coordinating an attack on Turkey with him, I wouldn't leave
> Trieste too wide open.
Don't worry, I'm not taking any chances and that's probably
why he's disappointed.
> Please help me with whatever information you can about his opening. It's
> in both our interests to have an eye on both sides of him. I'll let you
> know anything I might find out about his plans, as well.
My feeling is that he isn't opening with an attack on France,
but please don't bet the farm on what I think Andy will do. I
don't want to be responsible for your faring badly.
In fact, I would suggest keeping your options open. In your
place, I would open with Bre-Mao, Mar-Bur & Par-Pic or
Gas. With an organize bounce in Bur, you keep an army in
Mar to take Spain or react to surprises coming from Andy.
Best regards,
Philippe
Message from France to Austria
>
> If I hear anything, I will be sure to let you know; but I doubt
> he would let me in on a plan to invade France at the moment.
>
Of course not. But you never know -- people slip up.
>
> In fact, I would suggest keeping your options open. In your
> place, I would open with Bre-Mao, Mar-Bur & Par-Pic or
> Gas. With an organize bounce in Bur, you keep an army in
> Mar to take Spain or react to surprises coming from Andy.
That's pretty close to my actual plans. I'm not too worried, even if he
does attack.
Do you *want* me to attack Andy? If you're attacking, too, I'm willing to
consider it. I can probably do something to keep EG off my back for a
little while, and we're both interested in a quick attack on Italy, we
might as well not beat around the bush. I'm certainly open to it if you're
interested, but given how little I know of your dealings with RT right
now, I hadn't really been planning for it.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> Do you *want* me to attack Andy? If you're attacking, too, I'm willing to
> consider it. I can probably do something to keep EG off my back for a
> little while, and we're both interested in a quick attack on Italy, we
> might as well not beat around the bush. I'm certainly open to it if you're
> interested, but given how little I know of your dealings with RT right
> now, I hadn't really been planning for it.
Might have been interesting, but without knowing for sure
what RT is up to, it's too risky for my taste. Can't start
attacking my potential saviour can I ;-)
Philippe
Message from France to Austria
>
> Might have been interesting, but without knowing for sure
> what RT is up to, it's too risky for my taste. Can't start
> attacking my potential saviour can I ;-)
>
Okay. Let me know if you change your mind. I'll have to secure the Western
Med area at some point in the future, and it makes sense to do so when
you're coming at him from the other side. And, of course, if he comes
after you first, I will try, if possible, to open a second front and take
some pressure off you. I'd like to think you might be willing to do the
same for me.
Erik
Message from Austria to Austria
OK. I will use the opportunity France provided me to sum up my progress.
France:
I was waiting for the right moment to send a grey press to incite
him to protect Bur with an arrange bounce with Germany, but his
latest press gave me the opportunity to present this idea without
coming off anti-german and the grey press is no longer necessary.
Obviously, I don't want France to leave himself open to a stab by
Germany or Italy, but a german army in Munich this fall is what
I'm looking for and Tony doesn't seem to want to waste the unit
just to insure my safety.
England:
I don't actually expect him to go after Russia in strength, but I
wanted to make sure he would be ready to act if I was actually
stuck with an RT (compare to what happened in the previous
comments game, wich I'm not finish reading by the way). My
guess is that he's hoping to see an AT vs R alliance that would
take Russia out of the equation in the north. His statement also
provided me with some bargaining chip with Turkey.
Germany:
Given the choice between a very competent players and one
that is easier to influence, I prefer the expert to play Germany
when I'm Austria. At least, this way I don't have to be afraid
someone else will be able to talked him into attacking me when
it's not in his interest. Anyway, I can always hope to influence
him through his western neighbours with friendly advices. Not
that I will be the only one doing it seem from France's statement:
"From what I can tell right now, Italy sees Germany as a big long-term
threat, and would like to see him tied up in a squabble with as many
people as possible. He's certainly been goading England and I into early
animosity with him. Whether this is because Andy wants to head east and
needs the West off his back or because he wants to attack me and needs me
distracted I don't know, but I'll be keeping my eye on my southern centers
nevertheless."
Anyway, if Andy is allready taking care of the "let's attack the
expert" press, I can sit back and enjoy the show without risking
words getting back to Tony.
Italy:
I insisted on my strong defence and indicated I didn't mind taking
it slow. Neither sit very well with Italy and I will be taking flaks
for it in the short term. Just got to be patient and hope I was clear
enough about my desire to work with him.
Turkey:
I try to be as subtle as I could about influencing him to open with
the russian attack, but I doubt I was. If anyone know of a way
to make sure of Smy-Arm that is more discreet, I will be glad to
read about it after the game.
Now, as it paid up? I will only know for sure once I see the spring's
results; but I did try my best to make sure I wasn't being bullshitted.
I even used England's willingness to attack Russia as an extra
argument not to side with Russia after he confirmed the move to Arm.
Russia:
I was disappointed with his lack of communication with me; but
since it seem to be related with Germany's efforts toward the GIAR,
I don't mind. I try addressing his concerns, be they be real or not,
and indicated that I would be a valid ally and not some german puppet.
By letting him decide about Galicia, I also went fishing for information.
He wasn't straightforward about his arranged bounce in Bla, contrarily
to Turkey, and I welcome the chance to learn a bit more about him.
This was risky as I had told him of Tri-Ven and fearing for Rumania,
he might have prefered the bounce to keep me in Vie; but since he
didn't, Mos is probably going north to deal with hostiles or ambivalents
neighbours (Stp-Bot, Mos-Sev, War-Ukr & Sev-Bla).
If I'm not reading too much into this, I'm well positioned for the stab
on Russia. Without gains and an army going the wrong way, I should
be able to prevail against him in the south and work my way to a corner
position. Leaving me with the hard task of eliminating Turkey in alliance
with Italy.
Of course, this might all be a trap. IRT ganging up without caring for
whatever measure I took to protect myself. Turkey might not believe
England is going to attack his russian ally forcing him to defend instead
of pursueing a serious offensive. Italy might not believe I will actually
open with Tri-Ven or believe it without thinking it would be effective
enough. Russia might believe he's going to be denied Sweden whatever
happen and prefer to take his chances with an austrian invasion.
Let's hope it's not the case and I will get my two builds, the second
one being Rumania or Greece depending on how exposed Russia is,
Philippe
Message from Austria to France
> after you first, I will try, if possible, to open a second front and take
> some pressure off you. I'd like to think you might be willing to do the
> same for me.
Of course.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
> Gotcha. I'm fine with a DMZ there. And since it does allow us to establish
> some trust that's a bonus as well.
Then it's settle, we leave Galicia alone and rely on the dmz.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Germany
> I have spoken to Russia, he informed me that the pair of you were still working on the GAL situation (to bounce or not to bounce).
It's been settle. We will not bounce in Gal.
> Apart from that I am still awaiting some communication to confirm the cooporation between all 4 of us else AIG go it alone and
await Russia's spring moves.
> I am still in negotiations with Russia, he ofcourse is insisting that I dont bounce him in Sweden. I said that I would not as long
as I had no reason to do so. I also coupled the AR coming to agreemnt on GAL as part of this agreement. So if he does doubble cross
you then you can count on me.
>
What's left to discuss exactly? Also, do you intend to keep a
unit in Munich just in case or do you trust Andy completely?
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria
Well I am still trying to find out if he can spae a unit north. WIth you and
him beating up on austria then he has enough units south. MOS could head
north but he seems relucttant to do so.
Well france wants to bounce in BUR so MUN will remain where it is after the
bounce.
Message from Germany to Austria
*** darn my fat fingers and rushing, here is the correct text including a
better spelling ***
Well I am still trying to find out if he can spare a unit north. With you
and
him beating up on Turkey then he has enough units south. MOS could head
north but he seems reluctant to do so. Well france wants to bounce in BUR so
MUN will remain where it is after the
bounce.
Message from France to Austria
Phillipe:
Another quick question for you, since we seem to have this channel open.
Do you have any idea which way Russia is headed? He's been awfully
non-commital with me, which suggests that he's worried about me tipping
of Germany or England. My ability to effectively defend against / work
with Germany and England depends heavily on Russia's plans, and it
frustrates me that he's not more forthcoming. If you have *any* idea
what his plans might be, I'd appreciate the heads up.
Erik
Message from Russia to Austria
>Then it's settle, we leave Galicia alone and rely on the dmz.
Yes. I will also be moving to Bla, but as noted, expect that to bounce.
Come Fall I expect we'll both be looking for our "standard" neutrals -- is
that a reasonable assumption?
In Spring '02 we can look to really coordinate southwards.
Earlier you mentioned that you were hoping Andy was going to Lepanto. Any
sense whether that's going to actually happen? In the early going I would
have guessed that he was going to be defensive (which makes sense given
that you did tell me you were planning to move Tri-Ven) but he hasn't said
much about it since an early message.
I have no idea how things are going to go down in the north. GEF are all
friendly sounding, but none of them have made any commitments that indicate
which way they are leaning. Germany has offered Sweden if we work out Gal
(as you suggested to him and you and I have agreed we will). But I get no
sense of what their longer term leanings are. I get the sense that Germany
is more willing than the rest to be a longer term ally -- given his
"coordination efforts" -- but still don't know which way he's planning to
jump. Maybe everyone is just playing "wait and see".
Anything else we should discuss or coordinate? Early on you said you didn't
want to get into details just yet, and with that and my concern about
Germany's message, I think I haven't spent enough time actually talking
with you about us (rather than about Germany). We've still got some time
before the turn, and I'm happy to discuss anything that needs attention.
--- Tzarface
Message from Austria to Russia
> Yes. I will also be moving to Bla, but as noted, expect that to bounce.
> Come Fall I expect we'll both be looking for our "standard" neutrals -- is
> that a reasonable assumption?
Yes, unless you have something special in mind?
> In Spring '02 we can look to really coordinate southwards.
>
> Earlier you mentioned that you were hoping Andy was going to Lepanto. Any
> sense whether that's going to actually happen? In the early going I would
> have guessed that he was going to be defensive (which makes sense given
> that you did tell me you were planning to move Tri-Ven) but he hasn't said
> much about it since an early message.
In a way, the Lepanto is a defensive maneuver,
so I guess he will open with one.
> I have no idea how things are going to go down in the north. GEF are all
> friendly sounding, but none of them have made any commitments that indicate
> which way they are leaning. Germany has offered Sweden if we work out Gal
> (as you suggested to him and you and I have agreed we will). But I get no
> sense of what their longer term leanings are. I get the sense that Germany
> is more willing than the rest to be a longer term ally -- given his
> "coordination efforts" -- but still don't know which way he's planning to
> jump. Maybe everyone is just playing "wait and see".
That's my guess as well. Everyone is playing it
safe and we may have to wait until 1902 to
really know what's happening.
> Anything else we should discuss or coordinate? Early on you said you didn't
> want to get into details just yet, and with that and my concern about
> Germany's message, I think I haven't spent enough time actually talking
> with you about us (rather than about Germany). We've still got some time
> before the turn, and I'm happy to discuss anything that needs attention.
I assure you that I don't feel you have neglected
me. Contrarily to me, you also have to think
about the north and with good relations between
us, this became your priority. Like I said
previously, I have no problem with your taking
care of the north, as long as you're also available
to take care of the south.
For the moment, I can't think of anything else to
discuss that isn't based on conjecture, so go
ahead and take all the time you need to improve
your position in the north. Anyway, once Turkey
is taken care of, the north will have to be your
path of expansion as part of the RA.
Philippe
Message from Austria to France
Hi Erik,
Sorry, but I can't provide what I don't have :-(
You will have to trust your instinct on that one.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Germany
OK. Thanks for the heads up.
Philippe
Message from France to Austria
>
> Sorry, but I can't provide what I don't have :-(
> You will have to trust your instinct on that one.
>
Good point. I guess at this point, there's just no telling what people are
up to, is there? Better to play a conservative, defensive approach for the
first turn and see where things end up in the fall. Also, when we're stuck
between Tony and Andy, and both of us are, we can pretty much assume that
one of them's got a trick up his sleeve, right?
Good luck with your opening moves. I'll let you know if I hear anything
else pertinent to your position.
Erik
Message from Austria to France
> Good point. I guess at this point, there's just no telling what people are
> up to, is there? Better to play a conservative, defensive approach for the
> first turn and see where things end up in the fall. Also, when we're stuck
> between Tony and Andy, and both of us are, we can pretty much assume that
> one of them's got a trick up his sleeve, right?
Actually, let's be positive and assume we have them surrounded instead ;-)
> Good luck with your opening moves. I'll let you know if I hear anything
> else pertinent to your position.
Thanks,
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria
Hmmm your name has popped up a few times, be careful. You heared anything
new?
Message from Austria to Germany
> Hmmm your name has popped up a few times, be careful. You heared anything
> new?
I haven't heard anything special nor have I done anything special,
so could you enlighthen me? I would really appreciate knowing
what this name dropping is all about.
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria
Well I have heared that turkey and russia are talking and that that spelt
trouble for you. I wasnt worried as this still means that aig are looking
strong if we stick together. I do find it a little strange that russia hasnt
got back to aig in one press.
There again maybe the RT was only dropped to cause confusion. How is it
between you and russia?
How is the relationship with Italy? The three of us havent spoken.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
What are you guys hearing. I am hearing RT and ER. I also hear that AI are
doing ok. The last one is good news but have you heared rumors? How come we
havent heared from Russia in a global press to us? do we count him out?
We probably wont be getting down to businees in the spring due to the VEN
bounce but hopefully by fall we will all be on board.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
>
> What are you guys hearing. I am hearing RT and ER. I also hear that AI are
> doing ok.
We are ok.
The last one is good news but have you heared rumors? How come we
> havent heared from Russia in a global press to us?
The rumours I have heard center around France and Austria jumping me.
I know they cant be true because of my relationship with GA.
do we count him out?
I think you should ask him.
> We probably wont be getting down to businees in the spring due to the VEN
> bounce but hopefully by fall we will all be on board.
Exactly.
Andy
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> > What are you guys hearing. I am hearing RT and ER. I also hear that AI are
> > doing ok.
>
> We are ok.
>
> The last one is good news but have you heared rumors? How come we
> > havent heared from Russia in a global press to us?
>
> The rumours I have heard center around France and Austria jumping me.
>
> I know they cant be true because of my relationship with GA.
There's no need to worry on my account. I'm committed to AGI
and even if I weren't, I can't see the point of attacking Italy right
off the bat.
> do we count him out?
>
> I think you should ask him.
I think Russia was a bit put off by the joint press, but even after,
I still got a good feeling from his press. Of course, if there's
rumours of RT, it could all just be a setup and I would need you
to bounce Sweden like we said.
> > We probably wont be getting down to businees in the spring due to the VEN
> > bounce but hopefully by fall we will all be on board.
>
> Exactly.
Yes, I look forward to finally know what's really happening
around the board.
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
I'm hearing rumours of RT, and even ER.
Do you know what this is all about?
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> > The rumours I have heard center around France and Austria jumping me.
> >
> > I know they cant be true because of my relationship with GA.
>
> There's no need to worry on my account. I'm committed to AGI
> and even if I weren't, I can't see the point of attacking Italy right
> off the bat.
Well....thats what you are doing.
And the specific rumour I have heard is that France is moving MAR - PIE
> Yes, I look forward to finally know what's really happening
> around the board.
As do I.
Andy
Message from Germany to all
OK, so here it is. MUN - BUR (agreed bounce with France), KIE - DEN (on
request), BER - KIE. Pretty standard opening I would say. Anyone else like
to share?
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
Philippe,
I am having one of those really bad gut feelings about this first turn...
how about if we bounce in Tyrolia and Venice.
Is that ok with you??
Andy
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> I am having one of those really bad gut feelings about this first turn...
>
> how about if we bounce in Tyrolia and Venice.
>
> Is that ok with you??
To be frank, I would rather not but will feel obligated to if
you insist. We are allies and I will do what I can to ease
your worries; but with the threat of getting bounced in
Sweden, I believe Russia will abstain from moving against
me right away and this give me the opportunity of going for
Vie-Bud-ser & Bud-Ser-gre for a shot at two builds or at
least make sure Turkey won't.
Philippe.
P.-S. In case you wonder, no I don't trust Russia more then
Italy in 1901; but contrarily to Italy, he can be denied a build
for even attempting to attack Austria. That's why I'm still
going with Tri-Ven.
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> I'm hearing rumours of RT, and even ER.
> Do you know what this is all about?
Well, I think you would know more about RT then I would. As you know I
encouraged Turkey to work with you against Russia. Earlier I sent him a
note asking what he decided but he has not responded yet. I had hoped for
an AT and I still do, but I have no special knowledge one way or the other.
As to an ER, we have made the usual arrangements for the northern
provinces, and we have discussed Germany alittle bit. Nothing exciting - I
have found our Russian to be a tight-lipped fellow.
What of GAL? If you are indeed worried about an RT then I imagine you will
be going there, whether you tell Russia ahead of time or not. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
>
> > I am having one of those really bad gut feelings about this first turn...
> >
> > how about if we bounce in Tyrolia and Venice.
> >
> > Is that ok with you??
>
> To be frank,
to be frank, I dont see any reason for you to need to hedgehog, but you
are.
I would rather not but will feel obligated to if
> you insist. We are allies and I will do what I can to ease
> your worries; but with the threat of getting bounced in
> Sweden, I believe Russia will abstain from moving against
> me right away and this give me the opportunity of going for
> Vie-Bud-ser & Bud-Ser-gre for a shot at two builds or at
> least make sure Turkey won't.
No.....no need to....I have to trust you at some level.
thanks for the quick response.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Austria
Hey,
Germany just sent me a note basically saying that I'm dead meat. I
assume he thinks AIR (or some portion) are coming for me. Any reason he
might think that?
jason
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
I just heard you are ordering TRI - VEN. I want to urge you to think twice
about this, if it's true. I have already written the Observers that I
think there is a Juggernaut forming & now I'm warning you. If I am right
then you will very much need a good Italian ally. If I am wrong - which I
doubt - then you will have gained an Italian ally at no cost to yourself.
You know, you have told Andy you will be moving TRI - VEN. It doesn't mean
you now have to *do* it, whether you tell him in advance or not.
Your call.
Ben
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
Now I just got *another* note - this one from Turkey - & I'm not so sure
about the RT. I just can't get a fix on Russia, I guess. Anyway Turkey
told me awhile ago that you were pressing him to get an AT going against
Russia, & he still seems uncertain about Russia, so I hope you can persuade
him to work with you.
Good luck.
Ben
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Germany just sent me a note basically saying that I'm dead meat. I
> assume he thinks AIR (or some portion) are coming for me. Any reason he
> might think that?
I think he's having fun with us. He told me of rumours of Juggernaut.
For what it's worth, I didn't tell anyone about our plan and if you
didn't, then the rest of the board is in for a big surprise (I know that
you told England a bit about us, but I'm hoping you didn't share too
much).
I'm glad that you did ask though, because I was going to ask you
about the Juggernaut after having ask what other heard; and if you
don't mind I would appreciate your forwarding what Germany sent
you.
If others are trying to play mind game with us, I suggest we take
notice and prepare ourselves to return the favor down the road ;-)
I'm sure an opportunity to do so will present itselft.
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
> note asking what he decided but he has not responded yet. I had hoped for
> an AT and I still do, but I have no special knowledge one way or the other.
> about this, if it's true. I have already written the Observers that I
> think there is a Juggernaut forming & now I'm warning you. If I am right
> Now I just got *another* note - this one from Turkey - & I'm not so sure
> about the RT. I just can't get a fix on Russia, I guess. Anyway Turkey
> told me awhile ago that you were pressing him to get an AT going against
> Russia, & he still seems uncertain about Russia, so I hope you can persuade
> him to work with you.
Don't take it the wrong way, but you sent me 3 messages with
three different take on the situation. What's up with that? Your
first message indicate you have no way of knowing one way
or the other, the second one you're sure of the Juggernaut and
the last one you think there's a chance of AT.
Now, would it be possible to know your source(s) and what
they told you? This way, I would be in a better position to read
the situation.
Thanks,
Philippe
Message from Turkey to Austria
Good to hear from you. I mentioned a little bit to England, but our main
plan is safe.
Don't worry, there's no juggernaut. RT works well for R, not so much for
T. All Germany said to me was "it was nice knowing you." Not exactly
insightful. :-)
jason
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
I 100% understand your question. I got a bunch of press one after the
other & I will be glad to lay it out for you.
First of all I kept getting mysterious press from Russia that vaguely
suggested that he was planning on opening North. And I hadn't heard from
Turkey for several days & when he'd last written he seemed pretty unsure of
his intentions. So, I took a guess that there was an RT forming. It was
based pretty much on Turkish silence and those odd messages from Russia,
absolutely nothing firm.
That was my situation when I first wrote you this evening (my time):
> Well, I think you would know more about RT then I would.
I was not sure, but I was worried enough to encourage you to go to GAL:
> What of GAL? If you are indeed worried about an RT then I imagine you will
> be going there, whether you tell Russia ahead of time or not. . .
Then later I received a press from Italy, telling me you had told him you'd
ordered TRI - VEN. At this point I guessed that if this was getting around
then an RT was much *more* likely, as conflict between Austria and Italy is
an incentive for an RT alliance, so my earlier guess was reinfoced:
> I just heard you are ordering TRI - VEN. I want to urge you to think twice
> about this, if it's true. I have already written the Observers that I
> think there is a Juggernaut forming & now I'm warning you.
Though I was still not 100% sure:
> If I am wrong - which I doubt - then you will have gained an Italian ally
> at no cost to yourself.
*Then* I got a press from Turkey which seemed to show some distrust of
Russia. I think he was being sincere, though as usual I could be wrong.
So I regretted my earlier messages & tried to straighten it out with that
last one:
> Now I just got *another* note - this one from Turkey - & I'm not so sure
> about the RT. I just can't get a fix on Russia, I guess.
Looking back at my reasoning, I think I put too much stock in the messages
I'd been getting from Russia, saying things like, he will want to build
fleets in STP, and so forth, which I should not have worried about so much.
Which leads me back to where I am now, which is my original position (yes
I've gone in one big circle) which is just to try to get you what you
originally wanted, which is an AT. So I hope it is still possible but I
leave it in your hands.
I am so sorry about all the presses, one after the other, but I kept
hearing from this power & that power, and I thought you should know.
Anyway I hope I answered all your questions but please let me know if I did
not.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> I am so sorry about all the presses, one after the other, but I kept
> hearing from this power & that power, and I thought you should know.
No don't be, I'm really gratefull that you took the time to
keep me updated. It's just that I needed more info to
make sense of everything you said.
> Anyway I hope I answered all your questions but please let me know if I did
> not.
Yes you did and I thank you.
Philippe.
P.-S. If it doesn't interfere with your plan, could you open
with Edi-Nwg, Lon-Nth & Lvp-Yor? This way, you not
only make sure of Norway, but you will be in position to
convoy to it if necessary.
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Good to hear from you. I mentioned a little bit to England, but our main
> plan is safe.
Good to hear.
> Don't worry, there's no juggernaut. RT works well for R, not so much for
> T. All Germany said to me was "it was nice knowing you." Not exactly
> insightful. :-)
OK. Let him have is fun, we will have ours later on ;-)
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> > Anyway I hope I answered all your questions but please let me know if I
did
> > not.
>
> Yes you did and I thank you.
You are kind.
> P.-S. If it doesn't interfere with your plan, could you open
> with Edi-Nwg, Lon-Nth & Lvp-Yor? This way, you not
> only make sure of Norway, but you will be in position to
> convoy to it if necessary.
It warms the marrow of my bones to hear you ask this question.
I will open as you wish. And noone will know you asked.
Ben
Message from Austria to Austria
Well, it seem people have too much time on their hand
and I wish they would simply turned in their order so
we can be done with it. I'm more the straightforward
type of guy and playing mind game isn't my forte. Now
that I have done all I wanted for the moment, the longer
we wait the more chances that everything I'm trying to
achieve will get screwed up by others.
Wich bring me to something I have a hard time believing.
From what I'm getting, I seem to have a better
relationship with Erik, Ben & Jason then either Andy,
Tony or Eric with a c do with them. Can this really be true?
If it is, it will make dealing with the pro alot easier.
I should also mention the incident with Andy. When
Erik suggested attacking Andy right away, I could have
told Andy but I didn't because I was afraid this would
be use against me. Also, if Erik is still a bit angry with
Andy for what happened in the previous game, I was ok
with Andy being kept in the dark about it until it could be
made to work for me. Unfortunately, Erik's animosity
wasn't kept secret for long and this as forced me to be
more open about my upcoming moves. I'm sure Andy
and Eric with a c are comparing note and not knowing
where Vie was going must have been a problem for
them. Eric subtlely mention going for our "normal" neutral
while Andy requested a bounce over Tyr. Now that I told
Andy about trying for Greece, both of them should feel
more at ease; but doing so was risky as they now know
all my moves. If they want me out, their job is going to be
alot easier now that they know that Ven-Tyr-Vie
supported from Gal will work.
Message from Russia to Austria
> > Yes. I will also be moving to Bla, but as noted, expect that to bounce.
> > Come Fall I expect we'll both be looking for our "standard" neutrals -- is
> > that a reasonable assumption?
>
>Yes, unless you have something special in mind?
No, but I wanted to make it clear I'm still available. Especially given
that I thought that I hadn't been adequately focused on RA issues.
>I assure you that I don't feel you have neglected
>me.
Very good to hear.
>For the moment, I can't think of anything else to
>discuss that isn't based on conjecture, so go
>ahead and take all the time you need to improve
>your position in the north. Anyway, once Turkey
>is taken care of, the north will have to be your
>path of expansion as part of the RA.
Yup. And that is indeed what I'm hoping to settle quickly. If what I'm
hearing about AI relations (much of which is from you directly) I expect
that you are anxious to get established and turn on Italy too. I think the
biggest challenge will be taking out Turkey and still leaving us a unit
blend that (1) allows us to cooperate with a comfort zone to turn in
opposite directions and (2) allows you enough fleets to really press Italy
(though I guess you could get help on that from from France). But as you
say, at this point trying to solve the problem would be conjecture. We'll
discuss in more detail as we go along.
>Philippe
Uh-oh. I just realized I owe you apologies for another reason: I've been
referring to you as "Phillipe". I will make a point of getting the spelling
correct in the future!
--- Tzarface
Message from Austria to Austria
Addendum:
I did a quick check of 'comments' to find out the source
of Erik's animosity toward Andy and there's none. He
was eliminated because he didn't have enough time to
play the game, something to remember, and his comments
as an observer weren't against Andy. I probably just read
too much into it and he's only warry of a good player.
That being said, my quick scan paid up. I came upon a
small discussion about press forwarding wich included
Erik and Andy. Erik doesn't do it and doesn't trust the
content of forwarded press; while Andy does and will
trust press forwarded to him if the content look genuine.
That's VERY good to know as I'm going with Andy as
a long term ally (unless and until I can become a naval
power).
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> thanks for the quick response.
No problem, when I can I do; but it's not
always possible given my internet access.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
> Uh-oh. I just realized I owe you apologies for another reason: I've been
> referring to you as "Phillipe". I will make a point of getting the spelling
> correct in the future!
No problem, it's not the worst that I saw. Once, in highschool,
someone wrote fillipe on the black board, and it really was a
mistake! Can't think of a way to spell it worst then that ;-)
Philippe
Message to all
> OK, so here it is. MUN - BUR (agreed bounce with France), KIE - DEN (on
> request), BER - KIE. Pretty standard opening I would say. Anyone else like
> to share?
Can we expect you to keep this up?
Message from Germany to all
<Can we expect you to keep this up?>
Who are 'we'? some of you can some of you cant. Those that expect will
receive ;-)
So, no one else willing to lie.. I mean share their opening moves?
Turkey; just to save on press and answer in this one, the answer is NO.
I will not be asking France and Italy to convoy me to SMY nor will I aid in
any EFI convoy of a Russian unit from STP to CON.
Message from Russia to Austria
>No problem, it's not the worst that I saw. Once, in highschool,
>someone wrote fillipe on the black board, and it really was a
>mistake! Can't think of a way to spell it worst then that ;-)
Well, I considered this in some detail. After much deliberation I
think the absolute worst I can come up with is "Fylleap". :)
--- Tzarface the Ever Helpful
Message from England to all
> I will not be asking France and Italy to convoy me to SMY nor
> will I aid in any EFI convoy of a Russian unit from STP to CON.
My suggestion was for a convoy of a Russian army from NAF to STP, via the
Eastern Med. Please read your press more carefully.
My opening moves are:
F STP/sc - BOT
A MOS - WAR
A WAR - MOS
F SEV - ION
This way I maximize my defensive posture and bounce Italy from the Ionian.
Ben
Austria: Army Budapest → Serbia
Austria: Fleet Trieste → Venice (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna → Budapest
England: Fleet Edinburgh → Norwegian Sea
England: Army Liverpool → Yorkshire
England: Fleet London → North Sea
France: Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Marseilles → Piedmont
France: Army Paris → Gascony
Germany: Army Berlin → Kiel
Germany: Fleet Kiel → Denmark
Germany: Army Munich → Ruhr
Italy: Fleet Naples → Ionian Sea
Italy: Army Rome → Apulia
Italy: Army Venice HOLD
Russia: Army Moscow HOLD
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Gulf of Bothnia
Russia: Army Warsaw → Ukraine
Turkey: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Smyrna → Armenia
|