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Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Unfortunately my office network went down some time *after* you sent your press, so when I sat down at my machine I could read but not write. . . You should have gotten one of the efforts I made at a response by now.
I hope it works out for you in the south. I can live with an A STP, as you say. We will have to look over our options. I would have liked more advance notice, but really if my office network hadn't been down you would have gotten my thoughts earlier in the day.
I will write more later. . .
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I don't have much time but really wanted to get a message out to you.
> (Well, actually I don't want to send this, but I feel compelled to).
You did the right thing.
> Late yesterday Germany's press got much more desperate. At
> this point, he
> is threatening to attack me directly (via Pru or Sil) if I
> build in War
> instead of in StP. On the flip side, if I build in StP, he
> offers to help
> me against AT (in addition to offering you support to Swe).
> His messages
> have enough of a ring of truth that I believe that he is as
> desperate for
> an ally in the north as I am in the south. Unfortunately I
> didn't have time
> to check in with you about this yesterday (recall that Mon
> and Tues nights
> I'm usually unavailable). While I tend to doubt the threat, I
> am hoping
> that he would actually follow through with the support he's offered.
The chances of him following through with assistance to you are zero. He is
desperate *to you* because he knows he may be in trouble from me. If you
build in STP you will be destroyed by AT and he will never have to repay his
debt to you. He is not worried about promises to you - particularly this
one. Why would he keep his end of the bargain? Once you've done yours, GAL
is lost and everything else soon after.
> The result is that I would like to consider putting in an
> order to build A
> StP (NOT F StP). I feel like a total shit raising this idea,
> but hopefully
> you will take this message combined with my actually
> desperate situation as
> evidence of my sincerity when I say I'm NOT interested in RG
> vs. E. Also,
> if you check the timestamp on this you'll see it's earlier
> than any other
> message I've sent you -- I got up early to allow me to send
> it and give you a chance to respond.
I believe you but I think you are getting set up.
> The only purpose of A StP is to let Germany think I am on his
> side, which
> may buy me some time against AT. I have two potential plans for A StP
> should I build it, depending on how much risk you are willing
> to take. The
> first is to just move StP-Lvn and set up a defense. This
> would be best for
> you, but if Germany follows through on his "promised" to move
> a unit to
> help me support War in return for A StP, he'd still be able
> to hurt me,
> which I'm afraid he'll do in a suicide mode.
Tony is much too slick to go into suicide mode. If you build a WAR, which I
think is a *must*, the worst-case scenario for him is perfectly playable.
You do not have to sell your soul to work with him - why would he suicide on
account of A WAR?
> The second possibility is what I'd prefer, but a real risk
> for you. I could
> take Germany's offer to cut support from Nth and evict you
> from Nwy. If you
> move Nth-Hel and retreat to Ska, you could then take Swe and
> Nth in Fall
> which sets you up for and attack on Den in 03. I would use
> Nwy to support
> you to Swe, while moving StP-Lvn a season later. If France gets a
> sufficiently advanced position (so he can tap Kie) you can
> actually attack
> Den directly, and maybe I can get to hold Swe and get a build
> to help me in the south.
Let's table this discussion - I think it's premature.
> The ONLY reason I am asking you to consider this is that I
> really need an
> ally in the south that can help me break up AT. The real
> point is to get
> Germany to work with me long enough to try to shake up the
> southern situation.
He won't help you. If you build in STP he will never have to fear your
retribution.
> What's in it for you? Well, it's a lot riskier than me
> staying out of the
> way, but the advantage is that if Germany really does assume
> that you are
> under control, he may send units my way to help me. That
> would make your
> attack on him in the Fall a complete surprise, and more
> effective. Is it
> worth the risk? I don't know, it's hard for me to tell from my
> Russia-centric viewpoint whether or not it's a stupid thing
> to even ask
> this, but I can't see what else I can do. I will try to get
> AT fighting,
> but it's going to take a season or two for anything to come
> to fruition.
I think it's bad for you. How will he help you defend WAR and SEV?
> I doubt that you are going to like this message, and it's
> hard for me to
> tell from my Russia-centric viewpoint whether or not it's a
> stupid thing to
> even ask. As I said, at a minimum, I can move StP-Lvn and take up a
> defensive position. If I am being totally crazy, please point out the
> errors of my ways, which I'm sure are legion.
I tried to point out what I see as the weaknesses. Tony says lots and he
has a way with his tone - try to look at it from his point of view, too. Do
you really think he'll suicide if you build in WAR? He didn't get this good
by playing that badly. . .
> I'm going to repeat that I absolutely hate that I feel driven to this
> desperate move, but I really am desperate at this point.
> Again, I hope that
> giving you a heads up -- which gives you a chance to change
> your builds if
> you *really* don't like this message -- is evidence to my sincerity. I
> should have a chance to see any response you send before the
> deadline hits.
I hope you have time to reconsider. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
You bring up a couple of very good points on me trusting you more.
> I don't see an obvious way for us to cooperate directly at the moment. I
> will certainly be moving north, unless AT break up. Don't get me wrong -- I
> was very happy to see you take Gre. All I was saying was had I known it was
> coming I would have bounced Bla, which would have given us both better
> negotiating leverage with Turkey against Philippe.
Well...I got the Turk to build an army rather than a fleet, so if I want
to move on him, I can.
> The point was to get you thinking that in the future it might actually be
> useful to coordinate planning, because there is still no incentive for me
> to do anything that would inhibit you from successfully attacking AT.
True......what are you thinking. I have a whole bunch of options here.
> What can I do (moves or negotiation) to help you be effective against one
> or the other of them? Unless France makes a surprise move, I won't be
> making any progress towards you on the board.
I think the French actually do want to smack around the German, which is a
good thing, because the English want to as well.
And having Tony boxed in tightly is a very good thing.
Andy
Message from Germany to Russia
Due to time delay or other circumstances I have now received the BUILDS just
after I sent my press to you.
Thank you for nog changing your mind.
You stateed you wernt to pleased when I opened up the 3way press wit AIR, I
respect that and it wont happen again.
As for the situation on the board I would like to say the following.
Please dont see it as anything else but a picture I had in mind to limit
damage control for both of us and at the same time comes through on promises
made.
I picture me cutting support from NTH and you supporting SWE - NWY from STP.
This nets you NWY and prevents any convoy to NWY. If he forsees this and
move NTH - NWG and moves or retreats NWY to BAR then I bounce with his
potential fleet move to NTH. This means that he only has two units on NWY
and cant retake it in the fall. This is your guranteed BUILD. Let me know if
you see any way he can retake it vene if he knew that you were going to
capture it. I think we have NWY in the bag.
As for the south I pictured;
all units support SEV, SEV itsself supports bul - rum just for fun and
confusion.
At worst they get one unit into GAL (which you cant prevent anyway).
In the fall you let SEV for what it is and selfbounce in WAR to keep GAL out
and you build an army there.
Any contingency plan should include you trying to get Turkey to turn on
Austria and offer him support into RUM. Thats why you support it anyway.
What else does SEV have to do.
With the build in WAR you have three units to hold UKR, they can only get
three units on it (GAL, RUM, SEV) unless Austria makes it to SIL. Something
I will prevent. Thats where my support comes in.
I have a good feeling about this. I hear that AI are not fully on one line,
take that with a pinch of salt.
How are negotiations going with AT or are you not really negotiating?
All the above are just thoughts, let me know what you are thinking about in
terms of moves and what you think of my suggestions. The main difference i
see should you have built in WAR is that it would have been a guessing game.
Support SEV with 3 and let them into GAL or force two on GAL and hope they
dont use 3 to force GAL
I think the net result in cooporating in this way with me ensures no matter
what happens WAR is safe and you get a build to compensate for SEV. And you
have an ally in Germany.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Message from Russia to England
I've now received two of your messages, one sent before and the other
sent after the moves processed. I will say that I'm not sure
In short, yes, I am well aware that Tony was unlikely to suicide
against me. What I was hoping for is that he might be willing to help
me against Austria. That is a slim hope, I realize, but I'm kind of
grasping at the moment. Without Tony's interference I can hold War
and Mos for another year. With his help, perhaps a little longer.
As I said, A StP was really a way to try to woo him to help me in the
south. I don't want him to do well, I just want to buy a season or
two of his assistance. If I'm not in any better position then, I'm
dead anyway, so RE or RG cooperation is moot at that point.
Again, this is the reason I'd like to talk about me taking Nwy in the
Spring -- I need one year of cooperation out of Tony. I can burn him
in the Fall of '02, because by then I will either have turned AT or
not. As I said, if I take Nwy I would support you to Swe (assuming
the retreat to Ska, or continued presence in Nth) if necessary in
Fall. Alternately, if I end up in Nwy and you decide you don't want
to trust me to support you to Sweden, I'd ask you to force the
retreat of Nwy. If that happens, I'll disband the fleet and build
another army. That removes some of the pressure we can bring on Tony,
but from my point of view serves the main defensive purpose for which
I'm trying to get Tony's help -- another army.
Obviously, you can also take the point of view that any "ally" that
is focused on taking one of your centers is no ally, and work with
Germany against me. I don't know that I'd blame you if that's the
path you take. I am not being moved by Tony's slickness, but trying
to take advantage of the fact that he thinks he's manipulating me. I
have no delusions that I can survive a three front war, so am hoping
the build and subsequent talk does not precipitate one. It should be
clear from the board that even if I were to work with Tony (I'm not
going to, but if) I am nowhere near the threat to you that he can be.
Yours,
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
>I've now received two of your messages, one sent before and the
>other sent after the moves processed. I will say that I'm not sure
Hmm. I wonder what I wasn't sure about. I don't remember what part I
deleted. My apologies.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
>Well...I got the Turk to build an army rather than a fleet, so if I want
>to move on him, I can.
Yes. Very impressive!
> > The point was to get you thinking that in the future it might actually be
> > useful to coordinate planning, because there is still no incentive for me
> > to do anything that would inhibit you from successfully attacking AT.
>
>True......what are you thinking. I have a whole bunch of options here.
I'm thinking that you have a bunch of options. My favorites involve A
or T losing centers. Just reading the board, given the position it
would be best for me personally if you either got Turkey to attack
Austria with you, or if that fails if you attacked Turkey straight
out.
>I think the French actually do want to smack around the German, which is a
>good thing, because the English want to as well.
>
>And having Tony boxed in tightly is a very good thing.
Well, I imagine my build may distract him some, but I'm hoping not
too much. A StP makes me a better target for Austria, but hopefully
that will make Jason see trying to split my dots with Austria as less
tempting.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Interesting builds. Putting a lot of faith in Andy, huh?
At this point I'd like to repeat my comments about Austria and Italy
both preferring to see Turkey dead in a typical situation, especially
with Russia out of the picture. You have no defensible centers, and
you can't take Sev without support from Philippe, who is unlikely to
want to help you destroy a Russian unit that poses him no threat (F
Sev) on the eve of the Russian downfall.
I have already received the suggestion -- as I imagine you have as
well -- that I support you to Rum from Bul. That would be nice, but
if you took it it would mean that you had no units left to defend
your homeland. Instead, I would suggest that you consider
Arm-Bla-Rum. It's virtually guaranteed to succeed, since Philippe
will probably use Bud to take or support himself to Gal. It would
give you two armies on Philippe, hurts your strongest neighbor,
leaves an army to defend Smy if that's where Andy shoots for it, and
puts you in a dominant negotiating position.
I don't have a copy of my earlier message, which talked about
allowing you to take Sev. I should have clarified that I won't leave
Sev undefended, so in that sense I didn't mean that I will "let" you
take Sev. I was simply stating that if you get to the point where you
can attack Sev, and if Philippe assists you (a requirement for a
successful attack) then I would prefer to see you take it with a
fleet.
I hope this makes sense. Things could get very ugly very quickly for
the two of us if you let Andy and Philippe combine against us,
especially since I've given Philippe a clear path to one of my
centers!
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Greetings,
Sorry to have been out of contact. I don't intend for my build to
interfere with your assault on Germany, though I am concerned it
might have that effect. It was a sop to try and get him to help me
against Austria should I need it. I'm not sure whether you will find
the potentially tension causing move as bad (because it could
distract Ben) or good (because it could distract Ben).
I may want to ask for your help from Mun once you are enthroned there
to give me some support in the area around War. We'll see whether
that's in your best interests when the time comes.
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to Russia
Sorry for not responding earlier. I did get your messages, but I wanted
to wait until after the builds.
And yes, I have more faith in Andy than I do in Austria. :-)
I'm willing to make a deal: I'll take Sev in the spring, and hold it as
insurance for RT. I won't take Mos, and will run the Juggernaut. In the
fall, I'll attack Austria with you. You protect War from Austria, and we
roll west.
Obviously, if you try to protect Sev, you just lose War and hose us
both. You've stated plenty of scenarios before where we both lose. In
this one, I think we can both win.
jason
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I wish I'd been able to get that last press to the net when I'd actually
written it. But what's done is done & I have heard there is some stress on
AT relations. *Not* incidentally having to do with Germany.
> I've now received two of your messages, one sent before and the other
> sent after the moves processed. I will say that I'm not sure
Yes? Can I help you? ;-)
> As I said, A StP was really a way to try to woo him to help me in the
> south. I don't want him to do well, I just want to buy a season or
> two of his assistance. If I'm not in any better position then, I'm
> dead anyway, so RE or RG cooperation is moot at that point.
Hopefully the build was all you'll need. I have a proposal for the spring
- see below.
> Again, this is the reason I'd like to talk about me taking Nwy in the
> Spring -- I need one year of cooperation out of Tony. I can burn him
> in the Fall of '02, because by then I will either have turned AT or
> not. As I said, if I take Nwy I would support you to Swe (assuming
> the retreat to Ska, or continued presence in Nth) if necessary in
> Fall. Alternately, if I end up in Nwy and you decide you don't want
> to trust me to support you to Sweden, I'd ask you to force the
> retreat of Nwy. If that happens, I'll disband the fleet and build
> another army. That removes some of the pressure we can bring on Tony,
> but from my point of view serves the main defensive purpose for which
> I'm trying to get Tony's help -- another army.
My thinking is, if you take NWY with the army, the army is useless to your
southern defenses, and if you take it with the fleet, it becomes
substantially less of a weapon against Germany. Either way you have taken
an active unit and pushed it further from the front we would both like to
see it on. It is true you have gained a dot but, by marginalizing one of
your other units, your gain is diminished.
Let me propose instead you go to LVN. This sets you up beautifully if you
(a) need it to defend the south, or, if AT come apart at the seam, (b) to
use in conjunction with F SWE in a quick strike against Germany. Tony can
hardly complain about the move, after all, it is a natural destination for
defense of your homeland.
If he insists you capture NWY then he is putting you in a position in which
you will feel like you must choose between an ER and a GR. He knows he is
putting you in this position. The question will be, which do you want. An
alliance with me, or an alliance with him. Three principle factors for you
to consider: the profit, the people and the powers.
Profit: Either you take NWY from me now, displacing a unit from your
current fronts, or you take BER from Germany in '02 or '03 at the latest,
with follow-up play pretty much wherever you want it.
Powers: R/E is a favorable alliance and can work well into and through an
endgame. G/R is notoriously unstable.
People: As far as the people go, I do not need to tell you the disadvantage
of working with Tony. After all the handwringing in S'01, he consents to
permit you into SWE in the fall. Now he treats you as if your soul is
forfeit. Is that the ally you want?
I think the stage we are at is, I want to work with you and you want to
work with me. So let's do it. STP - LVN is no act of war against Germany;
spin it however you want to him. Then in F'02 you get to decide all over
again whether you are ready to attack him.
I have no great sentimental attachment to this plan - it will not hurt my
feelings at all if you find a better one - but I do think it's a good one.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
I understand you would like to see me make the moves you suggest, but I
don't think it's rational. I cannot protect Gal from being occupied in
Spring, whether or not I save Sev in Spring. So sacrificing Sev in spring
makes no sense. I will order Sev S Arm-Con. If you really want to cooperate
against Austria, take that support. Since you can also support with Bul,
that should be successful, unless Austria does not attack me and supports
himself. And if Austria does not attack me, then he's attacking you, so
it's moot that you're moving on him.
I will not willingly give up Sev. Given the choice -- which I'll have as
long as Austria doesn't help you into Sev -- I'll support Sev in preference
to defending War. The point about taking Sev with a fleet assumes that
Austria is helping you take it, in which case I can't stop you.
--- Eric
Message from Master to all
Players,
Please keep in mind that if you'd like to share your plans, strategy
and whatnot with the commentators, you can do that by sending press to
yourself. That way the commentators will see your comments, but other
players will not. If you send "press to o", anyone can see your
comments by requesting a history of the game. If you send "press to
m", I will see your comments but the commentators will not.
You are not required to share information with the commentators, but
you are encouraged to do so.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Thanks for your message. You make very good points, and I'm starting to
think you are correct that the Army build is enough. I'm suddenly (since
your last message) getting strong signs of AT fracturing, so my desperation
is indeed fading. I was going to write a long response, but got interrupted
with a rather emotional family phone call (nothing serious) so I'm a little
drained at this point. I'm going to trail off and I'll get back to you soon....
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> Well, if you are coming after me, it's in my best interests to see Andy
> attack you. I'm not clear what I can do to convince you that working with
> me is a good idea. The best I can say is that Jason knew A Gre was coming
> and didn't tell you, so he's probably looking to use you for a quick build
> in Sev, get your units embroiled against me, and then turn on you. If you
> are worried about this (I would be in your case) the I'm hoping we can work
> something out. For instance, you could take Bul (I doubt Jason will be
> defending it) and Gre this year. I could complete my capture of Rum with a
> fleet, and line up against Jason. You end up with a new build, and lots of
> leverage over both me and Turkey.
Well, an army in Con complicate things as Bul can't easily
be taken; but your plan of Sev-Rum to build another fleet
still seem the best hope of Austro-Russian cooperation.
Of course, it would have to wait until the fall given the
situation.
> It's largely dependent on how seriously you take the threat from Andy in
> Gre, and his ability to influence Jason.
I take it very seriously, don't worry.
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
> > For instance, you could take Bul (I doubt Jason will be
> > defending it) and Gre this year. I could complete my capture of Rum with a
> > fleet, and line up against Jason. You end up with a new build, and lots of
> > leverage over both me and Turkey.
>
>Well, an army in Con complicate things as Bul can't easily
>be taken; but your plan of Sev-Rum to build another fleet
>still seem the best hope of Austro-Russian cooperation.
>Of course, it would have to wait until the fall given the
>situation.
I appreciate your response, and I agree that you are in an awkward
situation down there. Jason could support himself against you, but he
could just as easily use the expectation that you will be using your
force against me to hit you. Note that even if you try using Rum to
support Ser, that support is easily cut. In fact, as long as you are
coming after me, I might be tempted to cut it's support, even if
Jason is attacking me at the same time.
You can also see that unless Germany helps you directly -- which
would seem to be unlikely at the moment, given the northern situation
-- that even a full scale attack from you cannot guarantee seeing any
profit from my centers for at least four seasons. During that time
you would be vulnerable to I, T or both, while I will be motivated to
offer continued support for Jason against you. Especially starting
Fall of this season, you will be in a position where AT can guarantee
success against you, because your key defensive (and counter
offensive) armies will be stranded too far north trying to take my
centers.
I do want to say I am very pleased that you are engaging in this
conversation, and I'm feeling like I may have gone overboard on the
doom-and-gloom forecasting here. I would like to continue this
conversation. At the same time your press has that same
"hypothetical" quality that led me to be concerned that you were
going to attack Rum last season. From how I read my press you are
currently planning to continue to press me and hope that IT breaks
your way. Because of that I'm just being honest about my assessment
of your position and how I'm likely to respond should that happen.
And assuming you continue to hear messages from Andy about how I'm
planning your downfall with him, please remember that he's very good
at making that stuff up. If nothing else, maybe this press will make
it clear that when I see a danger that I think might distract you
from attacking me, I will tell you about it directly.
So what can I do to help you consider going south sooner than Fall?
--- Tzarface
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
I don't have your last press with me so don't remember how we left
things. Looking at the board, it is clear that if you can convince
Jason to move A Bul (whether that is on Ser or on Rum) it's got to be
good for both of us.
It would mean that he is attacking Austria, which benefits you by
likely freeing up my units to better hold off Turkey from gaining
builds, as well as making RI possible down the road. The benefit I
draw from that is similarly obvious.
I have every faith that you have seen this point and are already
working to take advantage of it. :) However, it occurs to me that
there are several moves I can offer to Jason that could make a
Turkish assault on Austria more attractive and likely to succeed. As
long as Austria's coming at me, it's in my best interests to offer
such things.
So if you can get past your reticence to discuss plans with me, you
could let me know what assistance I could offer to Jason that might
make him more likely to attack Philippe. As noted in my last message,
in the short term, anything that sows AT discord is in our mutual
best interests. Sharing the fact that you are giving me such
information is only going to make an AT more likely by increasing
fears about an RI, so you can count on that happening. You can trust
I will also not be transparent with information you give me. "Hey
Jason, tells me you might want support for Bul-Rum" is not going to
be how I approach him, unless we agree it makes sense.
At the same time, I'd like to request that you be similarly
restrained. While I can see that it was to your benefit to tell
Philippe that I suggested taking Gre (good manipulation of him, by
the way) to get him to attack me, such continued leaks will really
hurt RI cooperation down the line. Obviously, if you are hoping I get
eliminated by AT, that's not an issue for you, but I'm trusting you
want to see me hang around for a little bit, at least.
Sorry for being long-winded.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
I dont trust the judge to must right now, did you receive my press?
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
> I don't have your last press with me so don't remember how we left
> things. Looking at the board, it is clear that if you can convince
> Jason to move A Bul (whether that is on Ser or on Rum) it's got to be
> good for both of us.
I think there is a better plan.
I think you should offer to support ARM - RUM
An olive branch of sorts.
>
> It would mean that he is attacking Austria, which benefits you by
> likely freeing up my units to better hold off Turkey from gaining
> builds, as well as making RI possible down the road. The benefit I
> draw from that is similarly obvious.
I am also offering the Austrian Bulgaria....not that I would support him
in but I have the Turk scared of an AR, if I can get him to attack Turkey,
he is done.
> I have every faith that you have seen this point and are already
> working to take advantage of it. :) However, it occurs to me that
> there are several moves I can offer to Jason that could make a
> Turkish assault on Austria more attractive and likely to succeed. As
> long as Austria's coming at me, it's in my best interests to offer
> such things.
>
> So if you can get past your reticence to discuss plans with me, you
> could let me know what assistance I could offer to Jason that might
> make him more likely to attack Philippe.
I am past my reticence.
I was just doing a very high risk plan last season and the board hadnt
totally revealed itself yet.
As noted in my last message,
> in the short term, anything that sows AT discord is in our mutual
> best interests. Sharing the fact that you are giving me such
> information is only going to make an AT more likely by increasing
> fears about an RI, so you can count on that happening. You can trust
> I will also not be transparent with information you give me. "Hey
> Jason, tells me you might want support for Bul-Rum" is not going to
> be how I approach him, unless we agree it makes sense.
>
Eric...you are a very good player. I trust your judgemnt on how to
approach people, but I am always willing to give an opinion.
And I agree, we need to sow as much discord as possible, in a covert way.
> At the same time, I'd like to request that you be similarly
> restrained. While I can see that it was to your benefit to tell
> Philippe that I suggested taking Gre (good manipulation of him, by
> the way) to get him to attack me, such continued leaks will really
> hurt RI cooperation down the line. Obviously, if you are hoping I get
> eliminated by AT, that's not an issue for you, but I'm trusting you
> want to see me hang around for a little bit, at least.
I didnt tell him you suggested taking Greece.
But I agree. We need to control that.
Andy
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
Evidently the thing that sold the Turk on the fact that you and the
Austrian were working together, ie...getting him to build an army
Was that neither of you have gone to Galacia ever.
Make sure your DMZ with Austria in in place. I can get him to attack
Austria in the fall, assuming Galacia has never been fought over.
Andy
Message from Turkey to Russia
Very well, I need to make the offer, at least.
I'll accept support into Rum from Arm in the spring.
jason
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Sorry, I did get your press and thought I responded. I've been having a few
judge oddities myself, but I think it might be my ISP. I have gotten a few
duplicates from you as well.
In any case, I appreciated your advice around AT. I have been so focused on
trying to stabilize the south that I haven't spared much attention in the
north. Bad thing I know.
Up here, things look pretty straightforward. I'm planning to deal with
England's Nwy fleet if you are going to come through on cutting support for
it. I'm not sure at this point that I need your help in the south. Things
there are looking a little better at the moment. I'll get back to you if I
need assistance, though I always appreciate any tips you want to provide or
anything you can tell me about A or T!
My build has not surprisingly caused a lot of press to come in from
England. I have not heard from France in a while. His moves are clearly
anti-G, but is he saying much to you at this point?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Well, I'm still running busy, but I wanted to follow up yesterday's note.
You've suggested we move south instead of rearranging Nwy/Swe. Following up
on that I wanted to suggest some specific moves (please forgive me if I'm
overlooking something you've suggested yourself).
I haven't really looked at the board, so this is all kind of "from the hip"
talk. I expect that Tony will move Den-Nth to cut support for Nth and allow
me to take Nwy (the point of building in StP was to make him think that's
what was going to happen). That should allow one of us to take Den. What
I'd like to see is some setup that has you take Den (Nth-Den) and move Nwy
to Nth, perhaps supporting with Lon, or using Lon to go to Eng if that
isn't a stab of Erik (or if it is, but you feel like attacking him -- seems
unlikely though). I'll move StP-Lvn as you have suggested.
This moves us both south, takes a dot off of Germany, demilitarizes
northern Scandinavia. I'd be trusting you not to take StP, and you'd be
trusting me not to take Nwy -- but realistically I think that either of us
doing those things would be counter productive: I can't hold Nwy and Swe
and it would just provoke an EG vs. R. Similarly, you taking StP would
devastate my position, but Germany, Austria and Turkey would be the ones to
benefit from it. Taking the logic even further -- we dislodge F Den,
Germany is likely to threaten Swe, so moving to Nwy in Fall would simply be
taking a center from Tony to give it to you. [I hope the detail isn't
bothersome, I recall you saying you don't like to worry too much about what
may come two or more seasons down the pike].
Whatcha think? This is all strawman stuff -- as I said, I haven't really
looked at the board yet, but this seems a way for us to move forward and
give us both some comfort that we're not just sitting waiting to jump on
the other.
You sounded like you might have an idea for a less offensive, more subtle
Spring moveset, which would suit me fine if there's it might gain me a
season's support from Tony. You had also talked about getting into Ber by
'02/'03. I'm not sure what I've outlined leads to that, so I'd like to hear
your plan that gets that to happen.
I'm going to repeat that I appreciate your responses to my recent desperate
messages. I realize that they contained volatile suggestions. I generally
operate under the opinion that it's better to talk about such things rather
than the just taking unilateral action. Sometimes people appreciate it,
sometimes they crucify me for it.
Finally, on trivialities: thank you guys for defeating Denver last weekend.
As a Raiders fan, that is always a welcome thing to see.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
> > I don't have your last press with me so don't remember how we left
> > things. Looking at the board, it is clear that if you can convince
> > Jason to move A Bul (whether that is on Ser or on Rum) it's got to be
> > good for both of us.
>
>I think there is a better plan.
>
>I think you should offer to support ARM - RUM
I have already offered that, but from the way Jason has responded to me so
far, I don't think he's going to take me up on it. I'll keep pressing,
trust me. Depending on how things go with Austria, I may order the support
anyway -- but your input on who needs the most shaking up may sway me on
that point. I was thinking that if he thinks he can hit Sev and Ser at the
same time, he might just be greedy enough to try it.
>I am also offering the Austrian Bulgaria....not that I would support him
>in but I have the Turk scared of an AR, if I can get him to attack Turkey,
>he is done.
Ah. Well that really needs to be done carefully. If we want to see Turkey
go down, then Bul moving fits well with that move. Otherwise, it's better
if Jason supports Bul in place.
>Eric...you are a very good player. I trust your judgemnt on how to
>approach people, but I am always willing to give an opinion.
I appreciate the compliment, though I don't see how can you possibly know
whether or not that's true! :)
> > While I can see that it was to your benefit to tell
> > Philippe that I suggested taking Gre (good manipulation of him, by
> > the way) to get him to attack me, such continued leaks will really
> > hurt RI cooperation down the line.
>
>I didnt tell him you suggested taking Greece.
Well, he could have made that up, but you were the only one I talked to
about Gre, so it seemed a reasonable statement. And I could believe you'd
tell him I'd suggested it as a way to throw him off the trail.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
Just checking in. Haven't heard from you in a while. Everything okay?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Just reread my last press to you. Did I really say I'd support Arm-Con?
Duh! How embarrassing, and in front of all those witnesses too. At least
the judge won't process such an absurd command!
This is just to confirm that I will be ordering support for Arm-Rum. I
think taking that support will work well for you. I'm not yet convinced
that I'll end up in great shape (since it'll take me several years just to
get to Austria's borders through all those damned armies!), but it's better
than having you attacking me. And it puts us in good position for RT
cooperation that should leave you very comfortable that I won't be taking
advantage of you, since there's not much I could do against you even if I
wanted to!
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Russia
Very interesting press the last day or so. I'm dying to know what's really
going on with the other players. Playing Diplomacy makes me feel like I'm a
manic depressive. I was completely certain I was toast through Fall and the
builds. The build of A StP was probably the most difficult choice I made
all game, in terms of how much I anguished over it, and I thought that it
might decide my fate going forward. I'm now back thinking that maybe I've
got some negotiating leverage, but that feeling will probably only last
until the moves process.
While from Ben's tone the build in StP is not the end of the road for us,
I'm still concerned that the my messages and build have completely undercut
our relationship. That's one of those very risky messages to send, but I'm
hoping we have enough rapport that it will actually end up strengthening
our relationship. Even if we do work together, I am concerned about leaving
only one unit to defend Scandinavia. My best bet is to hope that I can
convince him that France is the best next target (and the bigger threat).
My last message to him, while containing actual moves I am likely willing
to follow through on, was also an attempt to show that I really have been
won back into his camp. Which I probably have been, but I can never tell
with me. :)
Tony is still hard for me to deal with. He's seems to be setting himself up
to take Sil and be in position to control the fate of War. That was why I
asked him not to help me at this point. I also thought that if he's in
contact with AT, it might lead him to tell them that I'm comfortable, and
that in itself may help sway AR and RT relations.
I am VERY happy to see Andy in Gre. Regardless of my not hitting Gal, that
is the best thing that happened this entire season. Puts very important
pressure on both A and T, and the fact that it's Andy putting that pressure
on them can only be good for me. RI cooperation seems like a must for now,
even though I feel like Andy's got all the cards.
Still waiting to hear back from Philippe. I think my analysis of the
situation to him is accurate. Assuming I triple support Sev, or tap Rum
while supporting Sev, I should have Mos and Ukr on War after Philippe takes
Gal or even Gal and Sil, sacrificing Sev to hurt him. By that time, Jason
will have all of me that he can take, and will have to start being
concerned about Austria and AI cooperation. With A Lvn (which is still very
likely) I can play guessing games for a while even if AT don't break up.
It's an ugly position to try holding on to, but it's possible.
With Jason I think I've also accurately spelled out the threats to him.
Hopefully that convinced him to make the apparent acceptance of Arm-Rum is
great. I do have trouble trusting those one line "okay, I'm your ally now"
kinds of messages, so I won't be surprised if it's just to make me feel
good and perhaps stop negotiating with Austria. But I will probably order
the support (pending what Philippe has to say), as clearing out Arm is
worth a lot to me in the short term, if nothing else to keep him from
taking revenge for not supporting the move by supporting Philippe into Sev
later.
Clearly I'm not talking enough with Erik, which is a problem. I'm going to
need good communication with him later on (assuming I'm still alive) to
make sure he's more worried about Andy than me.
Gads, much too much time on Diplomacy tonight! I don't understand how
people can be in many games at once, between this and my one other one, I'm
swamped. Probably because I put too much effort into it. I'm one of those
people that re-reads and re-edits even the simplest message (which is
ironic when I still end up sending things like "I'll order Sev S Arm-Con".
Something about Bul/Rum and Con, when I talk about them I get way too many
typos. I'm just south-east-Balkan-dyslexic or something. I laugh when I
read stuff on VT-group saying the commentators need to remember to comment
more. I assume no one is talking about me!
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
[I apologize if this is a duplicate, I sent it to you earlier today, but I
don't see a judge confirmation.]
Philippe,
> > For instance, you could take Bul (I doubt Jason will be
> > defending it) and Gre this year. I could complete my capture of Rum
with a
> > fleet, and line up against Jason. You end up with a new build, and
lots of
> > leverage over both me and Turkey.
>
>Well, an army in Con complicate things as Bul can't easily
>be taken; but your plan of Sev-Rum to build another fleet
>still seem the best hope of Austro-Russian cooperation.
>Of course, it would have to wait until the fall given the
>situation.
I appreciate your response, and I agree that you are in an awkward
situation down there. Jason could support himself against you, but he
could just as easily use the expectation that you will be using your
force against me to hit you. Note that even if you try using Rum to
support Ser, that support is easily cut. In fact, as long as you are
coming after me, I might be tempted to cut it's support, even if
Jason is attacking me at the same time.
You can also see that unless Germany helps you directly -- which
would seem to be unlikely at the moment, given the northern situation
-- that even a full scale attack from you cannot guarantee seeing any
profit from my centers for at least four seasons. During that time
you would be vulnerable to I, T or both, while I will be motivated to
offer continued support for Jason against you. Especially starting
Fall of this season, you will be in a position where IT can guarantee
success against you, because your key defensive (and counter
offensive) armies will be stranded too far north trying to take my
centers.
I do want to say I am very pleased that you are engaging in this
conversation, and I'm feeling like I may have gone overboard on the
doom-and-gloom forecasting here. I would like to continue this
conversation. At the same time your press has that same
"hypothetical" quality that led me to be concerned that you were
going to attack Rum last season. From how I read my press you are
currently planning to continue to press me and hope that IT breaks
your way. Because of that I'm just being honest about my assessment
of your position and how I'm likely to respond should you pursue AT.
And assuming you continue to hear messages from Andy about how I'm
planning your downfall with him, please remember that he's very good
at making that stuff up. If nothing else, maybe this press will make
it clear that when I see a danger that I think might distract you
from attacking me, I will tell you about it directly.
So what else can I do to help you decide to go south sooner than Fall?
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
Yes the Judge/ISP does seem to be having fun with our press.
I will ofcouse cut support from NTH. As stated I consider us allies.
My press to England stating he should go for you with my support was to set
him up for your build in STP and his build in LOD. This should have the
frenchman a little worried. I couldnt say to him that I was working with you
to take NWY off him so I ofcourse had to decieve him. I have to break the EF
alliance and you were therfore my obvious ally.
Together we can ensure your northern scene is safe.
Yes France does look anti german (thats because I am the cause that he
looked a little out of place in PIE after the spring move).
EFG were meant to go for the tripple alliance, I was ment to open to
PRU/SIL, France was menat to go after Italy and England was ment to go for
BAR and you. As you saw in s1901 I backed out of the tripple alliance. This
no doubt upset France and to a little less extent England. That I continued
to stick with you has hopefully proven that I wish to be your ally. NWY is
yours this spring. I will go for defecne this fall against an EF attack. I
should be able to at least stay on the same number of SC's that I have now.
I may now even be able to convince ENgland to go after france with me, at
least for the spring. If I am working with england then sweden is lost
anyway and he could convoy to NWY to bounce you. Hang on in there for the
spring and you will see that you get NWY. I will be ordering den - nth and
not den s nwy - swe.
Hopefully this will gain your full friendship, you can concentrate in the
south and we can jointly keep an eye in the north.
If all goes well I will be heading for france. He hasnt spoken to me since
the fall move, I have sent him press twice already but heared nothing in
reply. I will keep out of SIL until you ask that I go there then just as you
request.
The good news is Austria hasnt sent me any press on cooporation, if he does
I will let you know..
Turkey hasnt spoken since the opening. I have no Idea what the AI
relationship is nor the FI relationship.
Message from Italy to Russia
> I have already offered that, but from the way Jason has responded to me so
> far, I don't think he's going to take me up on it. I'll keep pressing,
> trust me.
I think that would be a good thing. Just keep emphasizing the fact that
you and he will untangle and if you dont make the supports, he is still in
this very good position on you. Why wouldnt you make the supports.
Depending on how things go with Austria, I may order the support
> anyway -- but your input on who needs the most shaking up may sway me on
> that point. I was thinking that if he thinks he can hit Sev and Ser at the
> same time, he might just be greedy enough to try it.
Well...Im not sure how easy it is to shake up Philippe. He plays what
seems like a very conservative game. I could be wrong.
I will talk to the Turk about Serbia.
> >I am also offering the Austrian Bulgaria....not that I would support him
> >in but I have the Turk scared of an AR, if I can get him to attack Turkey,
> >he is done.
>
> Ah. Well that really needs to be done carefully. If we want to see Turkey
> go down, then Bul moving fits well with that move. Otherwise, it's better
> if Jason supports Bul in place.
True. But if we support Jason right now. Where does my next dot come from?
> >Eric...you are a very good player. I trust your judgemnt on how to
> >approach people, but I am always willing to give an opinion.
>
> I appreciate the compliment, though I don't see how can you possibly know
> whether or not that's true! :)
We have several connections of the Kevin Bacon variety, and they all speak
well of you.
> > > While I can see that it was to your benefit to tell
> > > Philippe that I suggested taking Gre (good manipulation of him, by
> > > the way) to get him to attack me, such continued leaks will really
> > > hurt RI cooperation down the line.
> >
> >I didnt tell him you suggested taking Greece.
>
> Well, he could have made that up, but you were the only one I talked to
> about Gre, so it seemed a reasonable statement. And I could believe you'd
> tell him I'd suggested it as a way to throw him off the trail.
I went to him and basically said that I was scared to death of the AT, and
thought I was next on the menu.
Andy
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I'm at work & haven't much time. Your suggestion of supporting me into DEN
in conjunction with going to LVN is a good one. We could follow up by
putting you in BAL and BER is pretty much assured in '03.
> Finally, on trivialities: thank you guys for defeating Denver
> last weekend.
> As a Raiders fan, that is always a welcome thing to see.
We own the Raiders, for some weird reason. It's just worked out that way -
like clockwork.
I haven't looked at the map either - we will correspond more over the
weekend?
Happy Halloween.
Tell me whether you've discussed your proposal with Erik; I'm trying to work
him against Tony.
Ben
Message from France to Russia
>
>
> Erik,
>
> Just checking in. Haven't heard from you in a while. Everything okay?
>
> --- Eric
>
I sent you a long note the other day. Did you not get it? I'll try to dig
it out of sent mail, but my internet access is spotty right now.
Erik
Message from France to all
Players:
I just moved, and Verizon messed up my DSL move order (big surprise), so
I'm without reliable internet access outside of work for the next two
weeks. I will be offline more or less all weekend this weekend and will
get back to everyone Monday morning (EST).
Erik
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
> > >I am also offering the Austrian Bulgaria....not that I would support him
> > >in but I have the Turk scared of an AR, if I can get him to attack Turkey,
> > >he is done.
> >
> > Ah. Well that really needs to be done carefully. If we want to see Turkey
> > go down, then Bul moving fits well with that move. Otherwise, it's better
> > if Jason supports Bul in place.
>
>True. But if we support Jason right now. Where does my next dot come from?
I just meant that him moving is good, and offering support is a good
way to make that happen. Not that the support needs to be given. But
thinking on it further, us simultaneously getting Philippe and Jason
attacking each other may be a bad idea. If Jason stabs Austria and is
not stabbed himself, we'd stand a good chance of seeing an RA vs. IT
or an RT vs AI, which could be very effective for both of us with
properly shared information.
My preference would be to see an RA vs IT, with Turkey getting the
initial spoils off of Austria. Both twosomes are less stable, and so
less likely to lead to nastiness for either of us (since RT or AI
could easily be parlayed into something that is bad for R or I). But
I can be flexible.
>We have several connections of the Kevin Bacon variety, and they all speak
>well of you.
Yeah, while beating me into the ground. With my first VGFP tourney
and in the Vermont "class-based" games, I have recently played with
several notable good players. Most have said good things about me,
but so far I've only survived one of those games. They may be
mistaking "nice guy" for "good player". :)
I've actually gained more respect for those players through playing
with them. While I was initially awed by their reputations (in
particular, ending up in a game with Roger Y. and Allen S. in it in
the 2nd round of the VGFP), seeing some of these players in action
gives me a lot more respect for them. In many cases they play exactly
the way I *think* I play. But given the results so far, it's clear
that they actually play the way I *want* to play, not the way I *do*
play. Subtle but important distinction.
--- Eric
Message from Master to all
Players,
I'm extending the deadline due to lack of internet access by one of
your brethren.
Greg, GM
C2
p.s. Boo!
Message from Austria to all
Hi,
I would also like everyone to know that I'm leaving for
the week-end in a few hours and that I will reply to
messages when I get back,
Take care,
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
> [I apologize if this is a duplicate, I sent it to you earlier today, but I
> don't see a judge confirmation.]
> So what else can I do to help you decide to go south sooner than Fall?
I would also like to apologize for not responding sooner and even
then, for not giving you a more complete response to your messages.
Just so you know, I did receive both copies; but given the situation
with the judge, please don't hesitate to send copies when you aren't
sure of as I wouldn't want to miss some of your press.
Since my betrayal in Rum, you're the one who sent me the most
meaningfull press and I intend to give them the attention they merit.
As for your question, would you accept to attack Bla this spring,
Sev would still be safe with Ukr & Mos as I wouldn't be supporting
Turkey against you?
Philippe
Message from Italy to Russia
> I just meant that him moving is good, and offering support is a good
> way to make that happen. Not that the support needs to be given. But
> thinking on it further, us simultaneously getting Philippe and Jason
> attacking each other may be a bad idea. If Jason stabs Austria and is
> not stabbed himself, we'd stand a good chance of seeing an RA vs. IT
> or an RT vs AI, which could be very effective for both of us with
> properly shared information.
That would take something considering his position on you right now.
What do you want to do...
Has the Turk told you anything??
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I've totally been in over my head these last few days. Did you write back
after I said I was interested in DEN?
Ben
Message from England to all
Greetings all.
I have been swamped at work & at home these last few days. If any of you
feels I owe you a press, or I haven't responded to something, please let me
know.
Apologies all around.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I forgot to mention - that was no way to come off the bye week. Now 2-6,
with severe locker room problems and a third string qb to boot - if you
like, you can root for the Ravens with me. There's always next year.
Ben
Message from Germany to Russia
OK are we on? I will cut support from NTH. You may consider taking NWY from
STP anyway. Else he may just retreat to SKA and threaten SWE. By taking it
from STP supported by SWE you avoid this. Just a thought. WAR will stil be
safe.
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Here's the message I sent you last week (on the 28th):
Looks like you're staring down the barrel of an AT alliance. Not pretty.
On the plus side, you won't have to worry about Germany for a little
while. England and I (as the moves have demonstrated) are making a run at
taking him down, though I suspect it's going to be a protracted fight.
Do you have any idea what Italy's position is right now via-a-vis AT? Most
of his messages to me have been along the lines of "please don't attack",
but I don't actually know much about what he's planning. I'd love to see
him provide you with a little relief, because I definitely don't want to
see you get chewed up by AT.
I know you probably can't afford to make an enemy of G right now, but if
you can spare F Swe for a support move against Tony, it would be very
helpful to me. I'm doing everything I can to keep England out of the north
while you get your southern border taken care of, and as long as Ben and I
are working together against Germany, I think I can do that. If you could
lend a hand, it would probably help me argue to keep English fleets from
venturing further than they've already gone into Scandanavia.
Not much to add since then; I've been out of it moving.
Erik
Message from Russia to England
>I've totally been in over my head these last few days. Did you write back
>after I said I was interested in DEN?
I don't have any of my past press from here, so don't recall. My last
suggestion was that you move Nth-Den, Nwy-Nth, to both get you
position on Tony and to move towards DMZing Scandinavia.
As to the other point, I'm sad to say that I didn't even get
frustrated with the loss. The Raiders are just *so* bad in virtually
every facet of the game (play calling, running, passing, run defense,
pass defense, kick coverage), that it's hard to get too emotionally
involved in their games. On defense I blame it on youth leading to
failed assignments -- I cannot count the number of blown coverages
I've seen. On offense, Gannon's been poor, and the O-line has been
basically obliterated by injury.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
You are correct. I did get that message. It just came during a time
of such southern-looking angst that I got the "hold in there" part
but failed to realize it was the first half of a conversation I
didn't finish.
>Do you have any idea what Italy's position is right now via-a-vis AT? Most
>of his messages to me have been along the lines of "please don't attack",
>but I don't actually know much about what he's planning.
Well, all of Andy's press has been encouraging, and him being in Gre
has got to be a good thing in terms of sowing AT disharmony. But he
and I aren't close enough to directly support one another yet. All in
all, he seems to like playing it close to the vest, but I'm hopeful.
>I'd love to see
>him provide you with a little relief, because I definitely don't want to
>see you get chewed up by AT.
There is no one that agrees with that sentiment more than me!
>I know you probably can't afford to make an enemy of G right now, but if
>you can spare F Swe for a support move against Tony, it would be very
>helpful to me. I'm doing everything I can to keep England out of the north
>while you get your southern border taken care of, and as long as Ben and I
>are working together against Germany, I think I can do that. If you could
>lend a hand, it would probably help me argue to keep English fleets from
>venturing further than they've already gone into Scandanavia.
There is no doubt that I can spare the fleet. From a high level, my
concern is that with Ben having lots of fleets, and holding Den and
Nwy, there's not a lot I can do to maintain a presence in the north.
That's an issue for both of us, because if I'm not there to balance
him, he will inevitably move against you down the line. Or if you
move against him first, there won't be anyone on this side to
distract him from responding to you.
But that's all long-term concerns. For the short term, I'm still
looking at supporting Ben from Swe. I'm just trying to figure out how
I can parlay that into decent position in the long term. (I have to
assume that I survive AT in terms of planning, because if I don't the
other planning is not helpful).
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ska is almost as good as Nth as far as I'm concerned. I was really
just looking to get Nwy emptied out prior to '03.
>Anyway I have no favorites in the AFC
>West, so if it makes you feel better, I'll root for Oakland.
Only if it improves their play. When I do better on my game console
than they do in real life, you know things are bad for them!
>I'm not wearing the gear,
That's getting more and more typical of Raiders fans this year, so
you'd blend right in.
>I'm not part of the Raider Nation, and I'm not going to
>start throwing batteries at the opposing players (Or was that Philly? Not
>sure.). But I'll root for Oakland.
:) I've never been a fan of such things. I imagine that things really
are as bad in some places as the image suggests. But I've seen pretty
good fan behavior myself. Of course, so far I've only been at games
they won, so that could be a mitigating factor.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> Ska is almost as good as Nth as far as I'm concerned. I was really
> just looking to get Nwy emptied out prior to '03.
Happy to oblige. This combination should grease the wheels for you to get BER soon after. So you are ordering the support to DEN?
What do you hear of AT?
Ben
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
>OK are we on? I will cut support from NTH. You may consider taking NWY from
>STP anyway. Else he may just retreat to SKA and threaten SWE. By taking it
>from STP supported by SWE you avoid this. Just a thought. WAR will stil be
>safe.
I've been trying to figure out what I prefer out of him. StP-Nwy
encourages him to retreat to Bar, Swe-Nwy encourages Nwy-Ska. In the
latter case we end up with a guessing game about how to defend. So
StP-Nwy is a possibility.
Do you have a sense of what you want to accomplish come Fall? The
only problem with StP-Nwy for going forward is that it doesn't put
any pressure on Nth. What we are looking to do in Fall may well
affect how I choose to move wrt Nwy in Spring. Do you expect to want
support into Nth? I think we're likely to be defensive in the Fall,
and wait to see what England disbands, as each of us hopefully picks
up a center (Hol for you, Nwy for me) and build, so F Nwy doesn't
seem as important to me the short term.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
I did hear from Jason, and I think he's seriously considering
Arm-Rum. (That means he told me he is, but I don't know whether or
not to believe him). I'm actually more interested in what he's
telling you than what he's telling me.
From what Philippe has said to me, I infer that he is considering
taking you up on your offer of support to Bul. (I don't know this for
a fact, and he hasn't revealed that you offered it -- I'm just saying
this based on what he's talked about as possible moves). What have
you been hearing from him?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Did I ever reply to your last message? I think I did, but I don't
have historical records here. Sev S Arm-Rum is indeed ordered, and I
hope it will be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Assuming the move is successful -- which it should be -- then I will
probably ask for your support either defending Gal, or getting an
army into the northern Balkans, depending on the situation. Sound
good?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Sev-Bla, huh? Odds are that Bla will either be used against me in
Sev, or against you in Rum. I would think supporting Con is a way
distant third choice.
If Jason's attacking Sev, then I'm in trouble, and moving or not
moving on Bla is kind of pointless (not bad, just doesn't gain
anything).
If Jason is defending Bul with Con and Bla, then if I tap Bla, you
still would need Andy's support to take Bul. Do you think you have
this?
Finally, if Jason is using Bla to attack Rum, directly or via support
then you need actively need my support. If you think that's the case,
I'd want a lot more of a guarantee from you that you are moving in my
best interests -- which would include not taking Gal, not supporting
Jason to Sev, etc. As long as you are looking hostile it is in my
best interests to see Jason attack you, so I wouldn't want to make a
move that might jeopardize his ability to attack without gaining
something more firm than you "considering" moving south (which is as
far as we've gotten so far) in return.
I am not trying to be difficult with this response, but the bottom
line is that that Sev-Bla is a move that seems unlikely to be
helpful, and if it is, it looks like it can only be helpful to you. I
am more than happy to be helpful to you -- really, I would love to
see us put an AR together -- but I would like to do so in a way that
has something in it for me. If there's some reason that you haven't
shared why you think Sev-Bla is important I am happy to continue the
discussion further. But from where we stand right now, if you are
looking for a gesture from me, I would prefer to come up with
something other than Sev-Bla.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
>So you are ordering the support to DEN?
I could swear I've already sent you a commitment, but I understand
the desire to ask again. :)
Yes. I decided that was my move order shortly after your first
message came in response to the builds. Managing the backlash that
I'll get from Tony when it happens will be a challenge, but if I can
survive AT (and we have yet to prove that I can!) then I should be
able to handle that, too.
Of course, if I can't survive AT, then what happens in the north
doesn't matter for me at all. Here's hoping that I have the problem
that matters to deal with come Fall!
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I could swear I've already sent you a commitment, but I understand
> the desire to ask again. :)
It was a pathetic attempt to squeeze another press from you. Sorry! ;-)
> Of course, if I can't survive AT, then what happens in the north
> doesn't matter for me at all. Here's hoping that I have the problem
> that matters to deal with come Fall!
I have asked my scout to put his ear to the ground, and he hears the distant
rumbling of the collapse of AT. Though I should point out, he's been wrong
before and frequently indulges in gin fizzies. So I had hoped you might
have heard something firm, but I guess not.
Anyway, good luck.
Ben
Message from Italy to Russia
> I did hear from Jason, and I think he's seriously considering
> Arm-Rum. (That means he told me he is, but I don't know whether or
> not to believe him). I'm actually more interested in what he's
> telling you than what he's telling me.
That is what he told me he is doing. Jason has been sortof talkative,
mostly talking about how the Austrian is threatening him.
> From what Philippe has said to me, I infer that he is considering
> taking you up on your offer of support to Bul. (I don't know this for
> a fact, and he hasn't revealed that you offered it -- I'm just saying
> this based on what he's talked about as possible moves). What have
> you been hearing from him?
I havent heard a word from him. But he was away for the weekend.
Message from Germany to Russia
Just getting back to SEV, maybe hold with 3 is best for spring. This would
allow the threat of MOS on STP which may deter england retreating to BAR.
SKA seems the most likely, although HEL may be interesting depending on how
HOL/BEL works out. As you stated I think the fall will be mainly defensive.
He has asked for support into sweden in exchange for moving LON - ENG. I
agreed ofcourse, although the move to ENG threatens me more than France. I
dont trust him but he doesnt have much else to do with Norway. I am
expecting NTH - HEL and a retreat to SKA. I may lose MUN but I should be
able to keep HOL as a retreat or retake.
I will just cut NTH and leave the choice up to you wether you take it with
STP or SWE. In a sense the fleet is interesting as it does enable an attack
on NTH sooner or later. But the threat of SKA is just as great if Sweden is
empty. I think STP would be better, we can always move SWE to SKA when
needed next year.
Message from Turkey to Russia
Yes, I did get your note, thanks. Everything's set to go. I should be
able to help you with Gal, no problem.
jason
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
Feel free to proceed as you wish in the south as I remove
my request for Sev- Bla. I thought it would be usefull since
you can defend Sev with only Ukr & Mos, but as long as
you don't move against me this turn, I will be happy.
For my part, since it's become clear that Turkey is up to
something, probably with Italy, I will play it safe and watch
what happen. I might be wrong and soon realise that you
are the one I should be warry of, but it's more likely that
Italy & Turkey are having fun at my expense while I went
agains the one who could help.
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Your response to my last press leads me to believe that I came across
more belligerently than intended. If that is the case, I apologize.
Not to be too distrusting or anything, but moving Sev opens me up to
the potential that you could support Turkey into Sev from Rum. Given
that you didn't suggest anything other than the request, I didn't
feel comfortable agreeing to the move on that basis.
If you are happy just waiting to see what happens, that's fine. I
just want it to be clear that I wasn't trying to shut off
negotiations, just make it clear that Sev-Bla seemed to carry a lot
of risk for no gain that was obvious to me.
>For my part, since it's become clear that Turkey is up to
>something, probably with Italy,
I believe this is true as well, but since I clearly have ulterior
motives for wanting you to think that is the case, I doubt this is
useful information for you.
Good luck.
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> Your response to my last press leads me to believe that I came across
> more belligerently than intended. If that is the case, I apologize.
> Not to be too distrusting or anything, but moving Sev opens me up to
> the potential that you could support Turkey into Sev from Rum. Given
> that you didn't suggest anything other than the request, I didn't
> feel comfortable agreeing to the move on that basis.
>
> If you are happy just waiting to see what happens, that's fine. I
> just want it to be clear that I wasn't trying to shut off
> negotiations, just make it clear that Sev-Bla seemed to carry a lot
> of risk for no gain that was obvious to me.
>
> >For my part, since it's become clear that Turkey is up to
> >something, probably with Italy,
>
> I believe this is true as well, but since I clearly have ulterior
> motives for wanting you to think that is the case, I doubt this is
> useful information for you.
No need to apologize. Given the limited goal of the request,
I understand that you prefer to play it safe, especially after
what happened in 1901.
Philippe
Message from Russia to Russia
Well, I'm a foot-dragger (meaning I don't have moves entered yet),
but it certainly seems there's enough info in to make my decisions at
this point.
Philippe's reply to my message about Sev-Bla was hugely
under-whelming. On the plus side, it did not provide any reason why I
shouldn't be aggressive against him, since he said, basically, "I'm
going to sit back and see if Turkey attacks me, but don't you help
him if he does." Kind of gives me a better sense of why I've been
ending up as the target of lots of alliances recently. I have the
same tendency towards neutrality that Philippe is showing. (Daniel,
Karlis, are you reading this? Maybe I'm learning something here.) In
this context, I don't know if it matters whether or not he's being
truthful, but he's leaving the door wide open for Turkey and Italy to
come work with me.
So in the south, I'm now thinking I should be aggressive: Ukr-Gal,
Mos-Ukr, Sev S Arm-Rum. If Jason and Philippe attack me, I lose Sev,
but that's not much worse than I originally expected, and I should
still be able to hold War and Mos for Fall, and who knows what might
happen in that time.
The north is what has me the most concerned. I really want to work
with Ben, but I'm having trouble seeing how it makes sense. Plus, if
I assume that I'm successful in creating IRT vs. A, the last thing I
want is Germany working to turn that into an AGE vs. R.
With a unit in StP, I can get a build that will be much needed if AT
comes to pass, and if AT break, it means the possibility of two
builds (Rum or Bud are possibilities), which would allow me to put a
fleet in the north while still fortifying the troops in the south.
(Though I don't know that building two is a good idea in terms of
early-leader-syndrome).
My concerns about working with Ben are for 1903 and beyond. Tony
would no doubt offer Bal S Ska-Swe if I help Ben into Den, which Ben
might even be willing to take in F02. Even if Ben does cooperate with
me, I stand to gain only one build out of Germany (Ber) before Ben
needs to make his call to either take on the weak Russian Northern
Fleet or start hitting France. I don't know which way he'd jump on
that.
The last question I have to think about is whether or not to respond
to Tony's comment about Ben having requested Nwy-Swe. It seems
obvious that Ben would also request Swe S Nth-Den, so I feel like I
should say something, but I don't really want to give him an excuse
to not cut Nth's potential support for Nwy. (Not because I think I
need it to succeed, but because I want to see him make overtly
anti-English moves.)
--- Eric
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
Your assistance to England is appreciated. I hear what you're saying
about his presence in Scandanavia, but as you said, that's a concern for
a few turns from now. I am trying, in the next year, to work in an
accepted fleet build in Bre, but that will be tough.
England seems to think that AT aren't going to last too long, which may
be good for you, but I have no reason to think he's correct.
Erik
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
>He has asked for support into sweden in exchange for moving LON -
>ENG. I agreed ofcourse, although the move to ENG threatens me more
>than France. I dont trust him but he doesnt have much else to do
>with Norway. I am expecting NTH - HEL and a retreat to SKA. I may
>lose MUN but I should be able to keep HOL as a retreat or retake.
Not surprising that he would ask you for support to Swe. As you have
probably guessed, he asked me for Swe S Nth-Den, in exchange for
granting me Berlin down the line.
I'm not sure what he'll be doing with Lon. I asked him about it, and
specifically prodded at Eng, and he didn't respond one way or the
other. So it'll all be one big surprise for me.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
>As you have probably guessed, he asked me for Swe S Nth-Den, in exchange
for
granting me Berlin down the line.>
Hardly worth a guess, I am betting he forgot to mention that you could only
keep BEr for as long as it took EF to get to you. EF are definitely an item.
I believe we made the right decision to combine forces. We do seem to be the
odd ones out. Have you decided on which way to take NWY?
> I'm not sure what he'll be doing with Lon. I asked him about it, and
specifically prodded at Eng, and he didn't respond one way or the
other. So it'll all be one big surprise for me.>
Well France hasnt approached me , but as I stated some time ago my choice to
move on ENG to cut support was twofold. One of which being the fact that I
will then probably bounce with London in NTH. He may support it in from NWY
but that will be cut by your attack. My cutting of NTH ensures your build.
We both profit. Hopefully better that a promise of BER down the line, when
the time comes, if all goes well etc. etc. etc.
This will be a decisive spring, no matter what happens I will be in some
trouble. I am banking on you seeing that EF are in it for the long run. It
doesnt matter to them what color the units are in germany (black or grey)
when the time comes they will be removed. How are you getting on down south?
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
What exactly do you want from me...
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Rumania → Serbia
Austria: Army Rumania → Serbia (*bounce, destroyed*)
Austria: Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*bounce*)
Austria: Fleet Trieste → Adriatic Sea (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna → Trieste (*bounce*)
England: Fleet London → North Sea (*bounce*)
England: Fleet North Sea → Denmark (*bounce*)
England: Fleet Norway → Skagerrak
England: Army Yorkshire HOLD
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Tyrolia → Munich
France: Army Paris → Picardy
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Tyrolia → Munich
Germany: Army Belgium → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Berlin → Munich (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Denmark → North Sea (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Munich → Ruhr
Italy: Army Greece SUPPORT Turkish Army Bulgaria
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Adriatic Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Naples → Ionian Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Venice HOLD
Russia: Army Moscow → Ukraine
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol SUPPORT Turkish Army Armenia → Rumania
Russia: Army St Petersburg → Norway
Russia: Fleet Sweden SUPPORT Army St Petersburg → Norway
Russia: Army Ukraine → Galicia
Turkey: Army Armenia → Black Sea → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea CONVOY Army Armenia → Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Army Armenia → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
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