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Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Unfortunately my office network went down some time *after* you sent your press, so when I sat down at my machine I could read but not write. . . You should have gotten one of the efforts I made at a response by now.
I hope it works out for you in the south. I can live with an A STP, as you say. We will have to look over our options. I would have liked more advance notice, but really if my office network hadn't been down you would have gotten my thoughts earlier in the day.
I will write more later. . .
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Remind me, what did I broadcast? was it maybe a broadcast to the observers
(where i forgot the TO G)????
I cant check my mail as it was sent via webmail. Going by my past experience
in the other game I may once again have done a booby ;-)
Let me know what I broadcasted. If I totally messed up then yes I was ment
to broadcast it.
Message from England to France and Italy
Andy -
I hope you do not mind me copying Erik here:
> That press that Tony sent, that looks like he meant to send
> it elsewhere and *accidentily* broadcast it. I a load of crap.
I agree. He suspects I'm working with Erik & is trying to split us.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I don't have much time but really wanted to get a message out to you.
> (Well, actually I don't want to send this, but I feel compelled to).
You did the right thing.
> Late yesterday Germany's press got much more desperate. At
> this point, he
> is threatening to attack me directly (via Pru or Sil) if I
> build in War
> instead of in StP. On the flip side, if I build in StP, he
> offers to help
> me against AT (in addition to offering you support to Swe).
> His messages
> have enough of a ring of truth that I believe that he is as
> desperate for
> an ally in the north as I am in the south. Unfortunately I
> didn't have time
> to check in with you about this yesterday (recall that Mon
> and Tues nights
> I'm usually unavailable). While I tend to doubt the threat, I
> am hoping
> that he would actually follow through with the support he's offered.
The chances of him following through with assistance to you are zero. He is
desperate *to you* because he knows he may be in trouble from me. If you
build in STP you will be destroyed by AT and he will never have to repay his
debt to you. He is not worried about promises to you - particularly this
one. Why would he keep his end of the bargain? Once you've done yours, GAL
is lost and everything else soon after.
> The result is that I would like to consider putting in an
> order to build A
> StP (NOT F StP). I feel like a total shit raising this idea,
> but hopefully
> you will take this message combined with my actually
> desperate situation as
> evidence of my sincerity when I say I'm NOT interested in RG
> vs. E. Also,
> if you check the timestamp on this you'll see it's earlier
> than any other
> message I've sent you -- I got up early to allow me to send
> it and give you a chance to respond.
I believe you but I think you are getting set up.
> The only purpose of A StP is to let Germany think I am on his
> side, which
> may buy me some time against AT. I have two potential plans for A StP
> should I build it, depending on how much risk you are willing
> to take. The
> first is to just move StP-Lvn and set up a defense. This
> would be best for
> you, but if Germany follows through on his "promised" to move
> a unit to
> help me support War in return for A StP, he'd still be able
> to hurt me,
> which I'm afraid he'll do in a suicide mode.
Tony is much too slick to go into suicide mode. If you build a WAR, which I
think is a *must*, the worst-case scenario for him is perfectly playable.
You do not have to sell your soul to work with him - why would he suicide on
account of A WAR?
> The second possibility is what I'd prefer, but a real risk
> for you. I could
> take Germany's offer to cut support from Nth and evict you
> from Nwy. If you
> move Nth-Hel and retreat to Ska, you could then take Swe and
> Nth in Fall
> which sets you up for and attack on Den in 03. I would use
> Nwy to support
> you to Swe, while moving StP-Lvn a season later. If France gets a
> sufficiently advanced position (so he can tap Kie) you can
> actually attack
> Den directly, and maybe I can get to hold Swe and get a build
> to help me in the south.
Let's table this discussion - I think it's premature.
> The ONLY reason I am asking you to consider this is that I
> really need an
> ally in the south that can help me break up AT. The real
> point is to get
> Germany to work with me long enough to try to shake up the
> southern situation.
He won't help you. If you build in STP he will never have to fear your
retribution.
> What's in it for you? Well, it's a lot riskier than me
> staying out of the
> way, but the advantage is that if Germany really does assume
> that you are
> under control, he may send units my way to help me. That
> would make your
> attack on him in the Fall a complete surprise, and more
> effective. Is it
> worth the risk? I don't know, it's hard for me to tell from my
> Russia-centric viewpoint whether or not it's a stupid thing
> to even ask
> this, but I can't see what else I can do. I will try to get
> AT fighting,
> but it's going to take a season or two for anything to come
> to fruition.
I think it's bad for you. How will he help you defend WAR and SEV?
> I doubt that you are going to like this message, and it's
> hard for me to
> tell from my Russia-centric viewpoint whether or not it's a
> stupid thing to
> even ask. As I said, at a minimum, I can move StP-Lvn and take up a
> defensive position. If I am being totally crazy, please point out the
> errors of my ways, which I'm sure are legion.
I tried to point out what I see as the weaknesses. Tony says lots and he
has a way with his tone - try to look at it from his point of view, too. Do
you really think he'll suicide if you build in WAR? He didn't get this good
by playing that badly. . .
> I'm going to repeat that I absolutely hate that I feel driven to this
> desperate move, but I really am desperate at this point.
> Again, I hope that
> giving you a heads up -- which gives you a chance to change
> your builds if
> you *really* don't like this message -- is evidence to my sincerity. I
> should have a chance to see any response you send before the
> deadline hits.
I hope you have time to reconsider. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
> I hope you do not mind me copying Erik here:
> > That press that Tony sent, that looks like he meant to send
> > it elsewhere and *accidentily* broadcast it. I a load of crap.
>
> I agree. He suspects I'm working with Erik & is trying to split us.
Thank you
Lets smack our opponents around now.
Message from Germany to England and France
OK, where do we go from here?
I am a little worried about animosity from EF towards me.
My gut feeling says beware of EF, something I am sure you can understand.
My situation isnt to bad and we should be able to diplome our way forward.
Ideas?
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
My office network has been on the fritz today - I've drafted you a note & it was eaten. Much worse - I drafted a note to Russia which I then couldn't send until it was too late, after the builds. I think (hope) despite the STP build, Russia can be persuaded to leave NWY English and instead either defend himself from AT or push Germany, depending on what becomes of AT.
Do you see AT lasting the year?
Concerning French plans: If I told you, don't be paranoid, would it help? I didn't think so.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to
Italy in 'c2':
>
> Andy -
> My office network has been on the fritz today - I've drafted you a note
& it was eaten. Much worse - I drafted a note to Russia which I then
couldn't send until it was too late, after the builds. I think (hope)
despite the STP build, Russia can be persuaded to leave NWY English and
instead either defend himself from AT or push Germany, depending on what
becomes of AT.
I think I can help with this. Russia just doesnt want you coming over the
top.
> Do you see AT lasting the year?
I hope not....getting him to build that Army was a big step towards it
falling apart.
> Concerning French plans: If I told you, don't be paranoid, would it
help? I didn't think so.
Now that I have seen the builds, I am MUCH more relieved.
Erik and I have a pretty significant history.
Message from Russia to England
I've now received two of your messages, one sent before and the other
sent after the moves processed. I will say that I'm not sure
In short, yes, I am well aware that Tony was unlikely to suicide
against me. What I was hoping for is that he might be willing to help
me against Austria. That is a slim hope, I realize, but I'm kind of
grasping at the moment. Without Tony's interference I can hold War
and Mos for another year. With his help, perhaps a little longer.
As I said, A StP was really a way to try to woo him to help me in the
south. I don't want him to do well, I just want to buy a season or
two of his assistance. If I'm not in any better position then, I'm
dead anyway, so RE or RG cooperation is moot at that point.
Again, this is the reason I'd like to talk about me taking Nwy in the
Spring -- I need one year of cooperation out of Tony. I can burn him
in the Fall of '02, because by then I will either have turned AT or
not. As I said, if I take Nwy I would support you to Swe (assuming
the retreat to Ska, or continued presence in Nth) if necessary in
Fall. Alternately, if I end up in Nwy and you decide you don't want
to trust me to support you to Sweden, I'd ask you to force the
retreat of Nwy. If that happens, I'll disband the fleet and build
another army. That removes some of the pressure we can bring on Tony,
but from my point of view serves the main defensive purpose for which
I'm trying to get Tony's help -- another army.
Obviously, you can also take the point of view that any "ally" that
is focused on taking one of your centers is no ally, and work with
Germany against me. I don't know that I'd blame you if that's the
path you take. I am not being moved by Tony's slickness, but trying
to take advantage of the fact that he thinks he's manipulating me. I
have no delusions that I can survive a three front war, so am hoping
the build and subsequent talk does not precipitate one. It should be
clear from the board that even if I were to work with Tony (I'm not
going to, but if) I am nowhere near the threat to you that he can be.
Yours,
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
>I've now received two of your messages, one sent before and the
>other sent after the moves processed. I will say that I'm not sure
Hmm. I wonder what I wasn't sure about. I don't remember what part I
deleted. My apologies.
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to England
Just wanted to check in with my alter-ego. Germany looks to be heading
west strongly. Are you guys going to be able to agree on Hol?
jason
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Just wanted to check in with my alter-ego. Germany looks to be heading
> west strongly. Are you guys going to be able to agree on Hol?
Tony is as slippery as an eel. So no, not yet.
Concerning your earlier question, it is my sense - and I think this much
you already know - you will pretty much have to choose between good
relations with Austria and good relations with Italy. I do not know
whether you are going to be stabbed by Austria.
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
Thanks for the clarification. As long as AI's not in the works, I'm happy.
jason
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Thanks for the clarification. As long as AI's not in the works, I'm happy.
My friend, I *never* said that. I do not know whether an AI is in the
works. But I stand by what I *did* say.
I'll keep you posted if I pick up anything else.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I wish I'd been able to get that last press to the net when I'd actually
written it. But what's done is done & I have heard there is some stress on
AT relations. *Not* incidentally having to do with Germany.
> I've now received two of your messages, one sent before and the other
> sent after the moves processed. I will say that I'm not sure
Yes? Can I help you? ;-)
> As I said, A StP was really a way to try to woo him to help me in the
> south. I don't want him to do well, I just want to buy a season or
> two of his assistance. If I'm not in any better position then, I'm
> dead anyway, so RE or RG cooperation is moot at that point.
Hopefully the build was all you'll need. I have a proposal for the spring
- see below.
> Again, this is the reason I'd like to talk about me taking Nwy in the
> Spring -- I need one year of cooperation out of Tony. I can burn him
> in the Fall of '02, because by then I will either have turned AT or
> not. As I said, if I take Nwy I would support you to Swe (assuming
> the retreat to Ska, or continued presence in Nth) if necessary in
> Fall. Alternately, if I end up in Nwy and you decide you don't want
> to trust me to support you to Sweden, I'd ask you to force the
> retreat of Nwy. If that happens, I'll disband the fleet and build
> another army. That removes some of the pressure we can bring on Tony,
> but from my point of view serves the main defensive purpose for which
> I'm trying to get Tony's help -- another army.
My thinking is, if you take NWY with the army, the army is useless to your
southern defenses, and if you take it with the fleet, it becomes
substantially less of a weapon against Germany. Either way you have taken
an active unit and pushed it further from the front we would both like to
see it on. It is true you have gained a dot but, by marginalizing one of
your other units, your gain is diminished.
Let me propose instead you go to LVN. This sets you up beautifully if you
(a) need it to defend the south, or, if AT come apart at the seam, (b) to
use in conjunction with F SWE in a quick strike against Germany. Tony can
hardly complain about the move, after all, it is a natural destination for
defense of your homeland.
If he insists you capture NWY then he is putting you in a position in which
you will feel like you must choose between an ER and a GR. He knows he is
putting you in this position. The question will be, which do you want. An
alliance with me, or an alliance with him. Three principle factors for you
to consider: the profit, the people and the powers.
Profit: Either you take NWY from me now, displacing a unit from your
current fronts, or you take BER from Germany in '02 or '03 at the latest,
with follow-up play pretty much wherever you want it.
Powers: R/E is a favorable alliance and can work well into and through an
endgame. G/R is notoriously unstable.
People: As far as the people go, I do not need to tell you the disadvantage
of working with Tony. After all the handwringing in S'01, he consents to
permit you into SWE in the fall. Now he treats you as if your soul is
forfeit. Is that the ally you want?
I think the stage we are at is, I want to work with you and you want to
work with me. So let's do it. STP - LVN is no act of war against Germany;
spin it however you want to him. Then in F'02 you get to decide all over
again whether you are ready to attack him.
I have no great sentimental attachment to this plan - it will not hurt my
feelings at all if you find a better one - but I do think it's a good one.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
Please keep in mind that if you'd like to share your plans, strategy
and whatnot with the commentators, you can do that by sending press to
yourself. That way the commentators will see your comments, but other
players will not. If you send "press to o", anyone can see your
comments by requesting a history of the game. If you send "press to
m", I will see your comments but the commentators will not.
You are not required to share information with the commentators, but
you are encouraged to do so.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Thanks for your message. You make very good points, and I'm starting to
think you are correct that the Army build is enough. I'm suddenly (since
your last message) getting strong signs of AT fracturing, so my desperation
is indeed fading. I was going to write a long response, but got interrupted
with a rather emotional family phone call (nothing serious) so I'm a little
drained at this point. I'm going to trail off and I'll get back to you soon....
--- Eric
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
This was the broadcast:
Yup, that was the press I was on about.
Well you are at a little crossroad. As we are sure France will be an army
then there is no pending threat for you. Usually when playing England its
always difficult to get the right amount of armies into play. Usually you
need fleets to keep pace with GER fleet build.
This is not the situation in this game. Not only would an army build make me
feel more comfortable ;-) but a move nwy - bar, yor - nwyand depending what
happens after that edi - nwy sets you up firm in northern russia. Usually to
get 2 armies up there is quite a challenge.
But if I were England at this point I too would go for a fleet, probably in
EDI but maybe for the show in London ;-)
I will be playing safe and I will be considering all neighbours as hostile
in the spring.
Depending on that outcome then anything can happen.
First we have to awit the interesting builds (Italy, Russia, France).
As for me, two armies it has to be. I dont see the point at this stage for a
fleet in BER to go after Sweden. If we so decide then either of us can pick
it up in the spring or leave it till fall.
It will be interesting to see what the realionship is between AIF.
Speak to you after the builds
Message from Germany to England
Well Ben I an not sure what happened there. I actually only received that
press this afternoon when I was in work.
It was actually inbedded in a press from the GM, I couldnt make heads or
tails of it.
I can only assume that somewhere along the line I or my webmail account
messed up.
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
Congratulation! Everyone in the north seem to want to be your friend.
So, is the fleet in London to attack France or make a strong bid for
Belgium? Either way, without a move to Ska or Nwg, you're at risk
of losing Nwy.
For my part, things are very confusing.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Congratulation! Everyone in the north seem to want to be your friend.
Thank you. I hope you are correct but I am not persuaded. . .
> So, is the fleet in London to attack France or make a strong bid for
> Belgium? Either way, without a move to Ska or Nwg, you're at risk
> of losing Nwy.
Yeah, I don't know what's going to become of NWY, or HOL, or BEL. I built in LON because it was the most flexible, but I still haven't made up my mind.
> For my part, things are very confusing.
What's confusing?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
I'm at work - I can't remember if I've responded to your last note. Where are we? I think I'd proposed YOR - NTH - BEL and LON - ENG, in conjunction with your PAR - PIC, BUR - RUH, TYR - MUN.
I think my move to BEL is necessary to keep Germany out of RUH and BUR. I think my move to ENG is the natural follow-up, to allow us to make a play on BEL in the fall.
Is that ok?
I am trying to bait Russia with the prospect of BER in '03 or so. If you want to follow up with him, feel free.
So, what do you think?
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> Yeah, I don't know what's going to become of NWY, or HOL, or BEL. I built in LON because it was the most flexible, but I still
haven't made up my mind.
Flexibility isn't necessarily a good thing. After what Tony
did, I would have expected you to send a clear message
to France. Anyway, how does he explained his decision
to keep you at 4?
> > For my part, things are very confusing.
> What's confusing?
Well, I had heard plenty of rumours wich I didn't really
believe, but an army in Con isn't what expected from T.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Well, I had heard plenty of rumours wich I didn't really
> believe, but an army in Con isn't what expected from T.
It is in the interest of Italy for you and Turkey to split up. It is in the
interest of Russia for you and Turkey to split up. I have not heard so many
rumors as you, nor do I know why Turkey built A CON.
Good luck & I'll let you know if I hear something.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> It is in the interest of Italy for you and Turkey to split up. It is in the
> interest of Russia for you and Turkey to split up. I have not heard so many
> rumors as you, nor do I know why Turkey built A CON.
I know what you mean, but if Turkey start believing them
and react by building units unconductive to collaboration
between AT, I have to pay attention to it.
> Good luck & I'll let you know if I hear something.
Thanks.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
>> It is in the interest of Italy for you and Turkey to split up. It is in the
>> interest of Russia for you and Turkey to split up. I have not heard so many
>> rumors as you, nor do I know why Turkey built A CON.
>
> I know what you mean, but if Turkey start believing them
> and react by building units unconductive to collaboration
> between AT, I have to pay attention to it.
Absolutely.
Let me know how I can help.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Well, I'm still running busy, but I wanted to follow up yesterday's note.
You've suggested we move south instead of rearranging Nwy/Swe. Following up
on that I wanted to suggest some specific moves (please forgive me if I'm
overlooking something you've suggested yourself).
I haven't really looked at the board, so this is all kind of "from the hip"
talk. I expect that Tony will move Den-Nth to cut support for Nth and allow
me to take Nwy (the point of building in StP was to make him think that's
what was going to happen). That should allow one of us to take Den. What
I'd like to see is some setup that has you take Den (Nth-Den) and move Nwy
to Nth, perhaps supporting with Lon, or using Lon to go to Eng if that
isn't a stab of Erik (or if it is, but you feel like attacking him -- seems
unlikely though). I'll move StP-Lvn as you have suggested.
This moves us both south, takes a dot off of Germany, demilitarizes
northern Scandinavia. I'd be trusting you not to take StP, and you'd be
trusting me not to take Nwy -- but realistically I think that either of us
doing those things would be counter productive: I can't hold Nwy and Swe
and it would just provoke an EG vs. R. Similarly, you taking StP would
devastate my position, but Germany, Austria and Turkey would be the ones to
benefit from it. Taking the logic even further -- we dislodge F Den,
Germany is likely to threaten Swe, so moving to Nwy in Fall would simply be
taking a center from Tony to give it to you. [I hope the detail isn't
bothersome, I recall you saying you don't like to worry too much about what
may come two or more seasons down the pike].
Whatcha think? This is all strawman stuff -- as I said, I haven't really
looked at the board yet, but this seems a way for us to move forward and
give us both some comfort that we're not just sitting waiting to jump on
the other.
You sounded like you might have an idea for a less offensive, more subtle
Spring moveset, which would suit me fine if there's it might gain me a
season's support from Tony. You had also talked about getting into Ber by
'02/'03. I'm not sure what I've outlined leads to that, so I'd like to hear
your plan that gets that to happen.
I'm going to repeat that I appreciate your responses to my recent desperate
messages. I realize that they contained volatile suggestions. I generally
operate under the opinion that it's better to talk about such things rather
than the just taking unilateral action. Sometimes people appreciate it,
sometimes they crucify me for it.
Finally, on trivialities: thank you guys for defeating Denver last weekend.
As a Raiders fan, that is always a welcome thing to see.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to England
Am I to be worried about a nth - hel, nth - ska, nth - hol, yor - hol move?
or are you looking at lon - eng?
Neither you nor France are talking much to me which has me a little worried.
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I'm at work & haven't much time. Your suggestion of supporting me into DEN
in conjunction with going to LVN is a good one. We could follow up by
putting you in BAL and BER is pretty much assured in '03.
> Finally, on trivialities: thank you guys for defeating Denver
> last weekend.
> As a Raiders fan, that is always a welcome thing to see.
We own the Raiders, for some weird reason. It's just worked out that way -
like clockwork.
I haven't looked at the map either - we will correspond more over the
weekend?
Happy Halloween.
Tell me whether you've discussed your proposal with Erik; I'm trying to work
him against Tony.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I am considering LON - ENG but I do not know what I'll be doing. I don't
hink I've heard from Erik in a couple of days, but I'd have to check.
Hopefully later I'll have a few moments for Dip - I'm at work now & don't
have the time.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
What do you think of me focussing on DEN instead of tapping BEL? This would
mean I would not need ENG, for now.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from France to all
Players:
I just moved, and Verizon messed up my DSL move order (big surprise), so
I'm without reliable internet access outside of work for the next two
weeks. I will be offline more or less all weekend this weekend and will
get back to everyone Monday morning (EST).
Erik
Message from Master to all
Players,
I'm extending the deadline due to lack of internet access by one of
your brethren.
Greg, GM
C2
p.s. Boo!
Message from Austria to all
Hi,
I would also like everyone to know that I'm leaving for
the week-end in a few hours and that I will reply to
messages when I get back,
Take care,
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
> Let me know how I can help.
Don't know how you could, but you are welcome to try by
talking with him. Instead of trying to explain himself and
work something out, Turkey prefer to switch the blame on
me.
Will see if he keep this up, but it sound like he's made a deal
with Italy or Russia, my guess would be Italy.
Philippe
Message from England to England
The sudden collapse of AT is bad news for me. Suddenly it looks like
Russia will get to choose a target - not what I wanted. Still I hope I
gave him reason enough to choose Germany. The key will be getting Andy to
favor an IT over an IR and an IE over all else. . .
I do not think it would have served any purpose for me to lie to AT and
tell them I heard X and they should therefore stay together.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I've totally been in over my head these last few days. Did you write back
after I said I was interested in DEN?
Ben
Message from England to all
Greetings all.
I have been swamped at work & at home these last few days. If any of you
feels I owe you a press, or I haven't responded to something, please let me
know.
Apologies all around.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I forgot to mention - that was no way to come off the bye week. Now 2-6,
with severe locker room problems and a third string qb to boot - if you
like, you can root for the Ravens with me. There's always next year.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Well I think I am stil awaiting a proposal.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Well I think I am stil awaiting a proposal.
Hmm. My tactical skill is not so great. Would you consider BEL - PIC, in
conjunction with LON - ENG and YOR - NTH - BEL? Or perhaps YOR - LON & look
around in the fall? I would like a second dot but there's no need to pick
it in the spring. . .
Ben
Message from Germany to England
> Hmm. My tactical skill is not so great. Would you consider BEL - PIC, in
> conjunction with LON - ENG and YOR - NTH - BEL? Or perhaps YOR - LON &
look
> around in the fall? I would like a second dot but there's no need to pick
> it in the spring. . .>
Anything to get you on board, France I havent heared from but I think he is
away.
Arent you a little worried about Russia?
bel - pic seems a good bet anyway even if you dont work with me. At worst I
can retreat it to HOL.
I dont mind swapping BEL for HOL.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Arent you a little worried about Russia?
Yes. I am also worried about France. And also Italy, you, Austria, and
Turkey.
Is there something I should know?
Ben
Message from Russia to England
>I've totally been in over my head these last few days. Did you write back
>after I said I was interested in DEN?
I don't have any of my past press from here, so don't recall. My last
suggestion was that you move Nth-Den, Nwy-Nth, to both get you
position on Tony and to move towards DMZing Scandinavia.
As to the other point, I'm sad to say that I didn't even get
frustrated with the loss. The Raiders are just *so* bad in virtually
every facet of the game (play calling, running, passing, run defense,
pass defense, kick coverage), that it's hard to get too emotionally
involved in their games. On defense I blame it on youth leading to
failed assignments -- I cannot count the number of blown coverages
I've seen. On offense, Gannon's been poor, and the O-line has been
basically obliterated by injury.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ska is almost as good as Nth as far as I'm concerned. I was really
just looking to get Nwy emptied out prior to '03.
>Anyway I have no favorites in the AFC
>West, so if it makes you feel better, I'll root for Oakland.
Only if it improves their play. When I do better on my game console
than they do in real life, you know things are bad for them!
>I'm not wearing the gear,
That's getting more and more typical of Raiders fans this year, so
you'd blend right in.
>I'm not part of the Raider Nation, and I'm not going to
>start throwing batteries at the opposing players (Or was that Philly? Not
>sure.). But I'll root for Oakland.
:) I've never been a fan of such things. I imagine that things really
are as bad in some places as the image suggests. But I've seen pretty
good fan behavior myself. Of course, so far I've only been at games
they won, so that could be a mitigating factor.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> Ska is almost as good as Nth as far as I'm concerned. I was really
> just looking to get Nwy emptied out prior to '03.
Happy to oblige. This combination should grease the wheels for you to get BER soon after. So you are ordering the support to DEN?
What do you hear of AT?
Ben
Message from Russia to England
>So you are ordering the support to DEN?
I could swear I've already sent you a commitment, but I understand
the desire to ask again. :)
Yes. I decided that was my move order shortly after your first
message came in response to the builds. Managing the backlash that
I'll get from Tony when it happens will be a challenge, but if I can
survive AT (and we have yet to prove that I can!) then I should be
able to handle that, too.
Of course, if I can't survive AT, then what happens in the north
doesn't matter for me at all. Here's hoping that I have the problem
that matters to deal with come Fall!
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I could swear I've already sent you a commitment, but I understand
> the desire to ask again. :)
It was a pathetic attempt to squeeze another press from you. Sorry! ;-)
> Of course, if I can't survive AT, then what happens in the north
> doesn't matter for me at all. Here's hoping that I have the problem
> that matters to deal with come Fall!
I have asked my scout to put his ear to the ground, and he hears the distant
rumbling of the collapse of AT. Though I should point out, he's been wrong
before and frequently indulges in gin fizzies. So I had hoped you might
have heard something firm, but I guess not.
Anyway, good luck.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Keeping you up to date on my thinking:
I have now submitted orders involving an attack against DEN, so I will leave
ENG open at your request.
I think there is a good chance for BEL - PIC, which means it will not be
necessary for me to tap BEL anyway.
I think your original move-set is good - by the end of the year I hope to
have HEL and DEN - we should be rolling through the German dots as of this
time next year.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
>>Is there something I should know?>>
You should know that I am very concerned about an EF against me, but you
know this.
You should also know that I believe France to be my worst enemy right now
with 3 of his units facing me.
And last but not least I find it puzzling that you havent mentioned the
Russian build, it must have you a little worried.
As I am unable to commuicate with France I wil have to consider him hostile.
No need to have him say "well I couldnt warn you as I was out of town".
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> And last but not least I find it puzzling that you havent
> mentioned the Russian build, it must have you a little worried.
Of course I am worried about the Russian build. Did you not offer me SWE?
He whispers nice things to me; we will see what he does.
I was quite surprised when he did not build A WAR, though.
> As I am unable to commuicate with France I wil have to
> consider him hostile.
> No need to have him say "well I couldnt warn you as I was out
> of town".
Agreed.
Ben
Message from England to England
As to alliance structures. I strongly prefer Erik to Tony. I do not see
Tony - this is based more on my press with him than on Andy's recommendation
- having any compunction about stabbing me down the road. Erik comes off as
someone with whom I can have a more stable relationship. I'm not looking
for a carebear - I'm just looking for someone who will not actively recruit
our mutual neighbors against me, as Tony is doing.
I think Eric will stick with me for awhile but I have to be careful. I am
worried about an I/R emerging and that would be bad for me. My guess is,
Andy will court a Turkish stab of Russia as soon as he thinks he will be
able to roll into Turkey soon after. I hope I am correct - if it becomes a
Russian stab of Turkey then Russia will be too strong for me.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
If AT really is falling apart, and you are planning on working with Russia.
Take care that you get the jump on him before he gets it on you - I am not
likely going to be much help to you unless you get the intiative, so keep
your eyes & ears open.
What's the status of those talks?
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Yes I did, thats why I was a little worried you never mentioned sweden or
the build in stp.
As stated my main problem is France being incomunicado. I can keep two on
MUN and keep him out of RUH. I cant be sure to make it to PIC and may
bounbce there with him.
At worst all bounces.
Message from Turkey to England
Right now, AT is off. Austria basically freaked when I built A Con. He
saw it as a direct threat. He then proceeded to tell Italy to support
him into Bul, or else. As much as I'd like to get Sev first, it's RT for
now.
Don't worry, I'll watch my back. Good luck over there.
jason
Message from England to Italy
Andy
There is an RT. If I was France I wouldn't mind. But it's bad news for
you & bad news for me - we are in the way.
What can/should we do?
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Right now, AT is off. Austria basically freaked when I built A Con. He
> saw it as a direct threat. He then proceeded to tell Italy to support
> him into Bul, or else. As much as I'd like to get Sev first, it's RT for
> now.
That's fine. Keep me apprised, ok? RT means at some point I will have to
deal with Russia. It's no use to you if I am overrun, so keep me posted.
> Don't worry, I'll watch my back. Good luck over there.
Thanks. You too.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
> There is an RT. If I was France I wouldn't mind. But it's bad news for
> you & bad news for me - we are in the way.
>
> What can/should we do?
What makes you say this.
Message from England to England
Well, RT is pretty bad news. Sooner or later it means I will have to
battle Russia with him more or less facing me and reasonably strong.
I know some people plan on their 18th center from the beginning. I do not,
as I would keep having to shuffle it around. If the RT remains stable, and
I am reasonably confident it will not, with Andy in Italy, then eventually
Andy may get severely weakened. In which case I may be able to penetrate
the Med. and take off MAR.
If Andy grows, then my best 18th may be in MOS. I'm not much good at this
exercise - could be the absence of solos.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> What makes you say this.
Turkey. Who also I think feels close with you. So I'm asking with the
hope that sooner or later you can push some buttons over there.
Am I wrong?
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > What makes you say this.
> Turkey. Who also I think feels close with you. So I'm asking with the
> hope that sooner or later you can push some buttons over there.
>
> Am I wrong?
Im fairly tight with Turkey.
But he hasnt told me that he is very tight with Russia.
He has told me mostly thhe opposite and his moves beget that.
But I know the Austrian was all over him about he Army build, so it could
be.
I think you should kill the German even faster.
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> I think you should kill the German even faster.
I'm working on it. Don't let Turkey get too far away from you.
I can't believe you're up this late playing Diplomacy. At least *I'm*
doing something constructive. Reading the @#$#'ing press archive of
Teachme3, which is clearly a file too big for my browser, scrolling slower
than a fish flopping up a hill. Now /that's/ time well spent.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> > I think you should kill the German even faster.
> I'm working on it. Don't let Turkey get too far away from you.
>
Have no fear.
> I can't believe you're up this late playing Diplomacy. At least *I'm*
> doing something constructive. Reading the @#$#'ing press archive of
> Teachme3, which is clearly a file too big for my browser, scrolling slower
> than a fish flopping up a hill. Now /that's/ time well spent.
I am actually packing for a buisness trip that starts tommorow night.
Message from England to England
Another word about why I am not inclined to try to work with Tony for now,
as I sort out the answer to this question for myself.
I don't think he responds even alittle to my style of press. If I wanted to
get through to him in a way he would respect or appreciate, I would write
like Andy B. Which is not, probably due to inexperience, a style I wear
well. With FRITA I feel like I've made some headway, established some
rhythm, but with Tony, I feel like I'm getting nowhere.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
> I am actually packing for a buisness trip that starts tommorow night.
Have a good trip. I hope it's somewhere warm & with good food.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
>
> > I am actually packing for a buisness trip that starts tommorow night.
> Have a good trip. I hope it's somewhere warm & with good food.
Thanks
Its not likely warm. And I havent been there in years, so the food
quetsions is up in the air.
take care
Andy
Message from France to England
Ben:
Sorry, just getting back into communication. Yes, the attack on Den makes
sense, and Russia indicated to me independently that he was supporting
such a move from Sweden.
Germany is either playing dumb or has some odd info, because he's acting
like there's nothing going on in his press to me -- he wonders what
my "strange moves" were all about, but that's about it. Odd.
So, Bur S Tyr - Mun, Par - Pic and Tyr - Mun. Can I assume Nth - Den with
support from Swe, Nwy - Ska, and Lon - Nth? Or did you have another plan?
Wish I could talk more about overall board issues, but I'm running a
little low on info right now. Austria's being awfully friendly to me,
which makes me think that he's going to want the use of A Tyr some time
soon if it's available. I think AT is rapidly becoming a dominant force
on the board. Perhaps we can at least enlist Austrian help against
Germany if Russia proves ineffectual.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Sorry, just getting back into communication. Yes, the attack on Den makes
> sense, and Russia indicated to me independently that he was supporting
> such a move from Sweden.
Good. It's a good sign that he'll actually *do* it.
> Germany is either playing dumb or has some odd info, because he's acting
> like there's nothing going on in his press to me -- he wonders what
> my "strange moves" were all about, but that's about it. Odd.
I've put on a smiley face for him. Who knows, maybe he doesn't see the
writing on the wall.
> So, Bur S Tyr - Mun, Par - Pic and Tyr - Mun. Can I assume Nth - Den with
> support from Swe, Nwy - Ska, and Lon - Nth? Or did you have another plan?
You nailed it.
> Wish I could talk more about overall board issues, but I'm running a
> little low on info right now. Austria's being awfully friendly to me,
> which makes me think that he's going to want the use of A Tyr some time
> soon if it's available. I think AT is rapidly becoming a dominant force
> on the board. Perhaps we can at least enlist Austrian help against
> Germany if Russia proves ineffectual.
As it is AT is done. My guess is we are about to see a RTI sandwich with
Austria playing the part of the bologna. The army in TYR may become
important indeed, though for now I am sure you have the sense to keep it on
track. In fact, if the East resolves into a (god forbid) Juggernaut, then
you and I will have to be wiping the German blood from our swords while
they are still fiddling with Austria, or they could grow too quickly for
us.
You know, I almost overlooked your press amid the torrent of proposals for
the VG tournament format. So much e-mail, so little time.
Ben
Message from France to England
Okay, looks like we're on the same page. Good to hear.
What makes you think AT are finished? Every indication I've had -- and
granted, I've been away a bit -- are that they're still working together.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> What makes you think AT are finished? Every indication I've had -- and
> granted, I've been away a bit -- are that they're still working together.
Separate paranoid notes from each, wondering about treachery from the other. A /very/ bad sign.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
I have pressed France several times, no reply. Coming to think of it no
reply from you either since my last press.
I hope you and France are not taking long hot showers together and
forgetting little old germany.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> I have pressed France several times, no reply. Coming to think of it no
> reply from you either since my last press.
> I hope you and France are not taking long hot showers together and
> forgetting little old germany.
But it's cold!
Seriously, he's written me once since he's been back and discussed his
plans. I think it's fair to say you freaked him out alittle bit. Curious
to see what he'll do. . .
The wires have been very quiet. I was just assuming there's still some
business in the East, or perhaps Erik is figuring out what he wants.
Ben
Message from England to England
One more time:
England:
NTH - DEN
NWY - SKA
LON - NTH
YOR H
France:
PAR - PIC
BUR - MUN sb TYR
SPA - MAO
Germany:
BER s MUN
KIE - RUH
BEL - PIC
DEN s NWY - SWE
Russia:
SWE s NTH - DEN
STP - LVN
UKR - GAL
MOS - WAR (or MOS s SEV)
SEV s ARM - RUM
Turkey:
ARM - BLA - RUM
BUL s ARM - RUM
BLA c ARM - RUM
CON s BUL
Italy:
ION - ADR
NAP - ION
GRE - SER
VEN - TRI
Austria:
SER s RUM
BUD s RUM
TRI - VEN
VIE - GAL
I am not satisfied with my press this past phase - I worry I've been losing
touch alittle bit with the eastern powers. I suspect it was quiet all
around, besides the tactical coordination of the attack against Austria.
Ben
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Rumania → Serbia
Austria: Army Rumania → Serbia (*bounce, destroyed*)
Austria: Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*bounce*)
Austria: Fleet Trieste → Adriatic Sea (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna → Trieste (*bounce*)
England: Fleet London → North Sea (*bounce*)
England: Fleet North Sea → Denmark (*bounce*)
England: Fleet Norway → Skagerrak
England: Army Yorkshire HOLD
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Tyrolia → Munich
France: Army Paris → Picardy
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Tyrolia → Munich
Germany: Army Belgium → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Berlin → Munich (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Denmark → North Sea (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Munich → Ruhr
Italy: Army Greece SUPPORT Turkish Army Bulgaria
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Adriatic Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Naples → Ionian Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Venice HOLD
Russia: Army Moscow → Ukraine
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol SUPPORT Turkish Army Armenia → Rumania
Russia: Army St Petersburg → Norway
Russia: Fleet Sweden SUPPORT Army St Petersburg → Norway
Russia: Army Ukraine → Galicia
Turkey: Army Armenia → Black Sea → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea CONVOY Army Armenia → Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Army Armenia → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
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