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Message from England to Italy and Russia
Friends,
I don't know when the next actual deadline will be, but I do want to toss
out some tentative moves for us to chew on. And, of course, Turkey (Ali)
is most definitely on the menu.
In the southeast, perhaps Italy will wish to be satisfied with the trade of
Bulgaria for Ankara, a real bargain in my book. If so, what about
Galicia supp Ser->Budapest
Romania->Serbia
Ankara & Smyrna supp Constantinople
Armenia->Sevastopol.
This kills Turkey and prevents any advance by Venice and Trieste into
Budapest. It is certain that either Ser->Budapest or Romania Serbia will
bounce, so Romania will not be open for Turkey. Constantinople probably
needs double protection, because Turkey HAS written to France. We can
expect one last dying attempt at coordination of moves from Turkey.
---------------------
Don't you just love that Russian fleet in Belgium? Be defiant, Nick!
Here's how to save it. Just cut all four surrounding armies:
Channel->Picardy
Munich->Burgundy
Yorkshire-Nth-Holland
Kiel->Ruhr.
That certainly saves Belgium, but at what risk?
If France goes for Belgium(most likely), he fails and nothing much
happens. We gain Munich for the year.
If France tries Ruhr supp Holland->Kiel (less likely), he succeeds, but
loses Holland. We still net one gain for the year.
If France tries Burgundy supp Ruhr->Munich (very unlikely) he does succeed,
and Munich has to go back to Berlin. If so, no supply centers have changed
hands for the year. However we start out next year with armies in Ruhr,
Denmark and Silesia, which is much better positionally than at the
beginning of this year. I doubt that France will do this, though, because
Munich is so easily defended from Silesia. Instead, Silesia might go to
Bohemia, for example, to put pressure on Vienna.
As I say,chew on it.
Ivy
Message from Russia to all
>The next phase of 'titleist' will be Movement for Fall of 1910.
>The deadline for orders will be Thu Nov 22 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
I'll be available for roughly the next 24 hours. I'm
willing to try to come to an agreement with my allies
and submit moves before I leave. Think we can do it?
If not, the Fall moves propably will not process
before 11/27.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
No need to rush these delicate negotiations. Tomorrow is my wife's birthday
plus I got a million things to do before the holidays. I'll be around to
chat but I'll only have a few minutes here and there until the weekend. I'd
say something constructive about our position but I haven't really studied
the results other than just reading them.
Idalia
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
>Message from England to Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
>Turkey (Ali) is most definitely on the menu
*chuckle*
>Galicia supp Ser->Budapest
>Romania->Serbia
>Ankara & Smyrna supp Constantinople
>Armenia->Sevastopol.
While I suppose the odds of Bla-Rum are very small,
the idea of moving out of Rum before Turkey disbands
makes me nervous. My other concern is with Arm-Sev.
We need a Unit in Syr to keep Turkey secure, and
Arm-Sev is a move in the wrong direction. Arm-Sev,
Rum-Sev seems safer to me.
>It is certain that either Ser->Bud or Rum-Ser will
>bounce, so Romania will not be open for Turkey.
Yes, if we can count on France to do what we expect
him to do...
>Constantinople probably needs double protection,
Agreed.
>Don't you just love that Russian fleet in Belgium? Be defiant, Nick!
Hell, no! I want to see it in Portugal! ( You told
me to be defiant. ;^} )
>Here's how to save it. Just cut all four surrounding armies:
>
>Channel->Picardy
>Munich->Burgundy
>Yorkshire-Nth-Holland
>Kiel->Ruhr.
Whoops! France sent me a letter saying that by
retreating to Ruhr, he had a lock on Bel. I sent
him this move set to prove him wrong. *blush*
Of course, since I told him about it he won't
expect us to use it, will he? Hmmm...
>As I say, chew on it.
I'll bring a conference map to my In-Laws.
Nick.
Message from France to all
Prince Boar will be indisposed for a couple of days.
Somehow his favorite dogs got into the library and chewed up several
books. Then one of them got violently ill. To tell you the truth, I
can understand getting sick on that philosophy stuff. Prince Boar when
learning about it became deathly pale and fretful. Really, it is just
some books and dogs, although he is fond of the dogs.
At any rate, you will get the pleasure of dealing with me for a few
days.
LE DAUPHIN
Message from France to England
Wingo:
It has been a long time, perhaps not long enough. I see
that you are still obsessed with French soil. I admit
that it a fine place and England is quite dismal. But
there are other nice places for vacation homes as well.
Go somewhere else!
Just to be clear, defense of the homeland, particularly
against England, has been and always will be my first
objective.
I am sure that my brother would want to wish you a happy
holiday, if he was feeling better.
LE DAUPHIN
Message from France to all
The French Royal family will be going hunting for the
next couple of days. We will be chasing our namesake:
the wild boar. We hope that the excitement will bring
Prince Boar back to his old self.
Enjoy your holiday, whatever you may be up to. Any
messages, not that France gets many, will be dealt with
upon our return.
LE DAUPHIN
Message from Master to all
Extension!
Doug
masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
for game 'titleist' to Tue Nov 27 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Grace period deadline advanced to Fri Nov 30 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Message [from France] to all
For those who are interested, the Boardgame Player's Association is
running a diplomacy tournament starting in Jan 2002. It will be run by
Manus Hand on the DPjudge. For more information visit:
http://devel.diplom.org/manus/bpa/
Roger
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> >Here's how to save it. Just cut all four surrounding armies:
...
>Whoops! France sent me a letter saying that by
>retreating to Ruhr, he had a lock on Bel. I sent
>him this move set to prove him wrong. *blush*
You are being serious, aren't you?
Our family is having a nice Holiday. I hope yours is as well.
Ivy
Message from England to France
>It has been a long time, perhaps not long enough. I see
>that you are still obsessed with French soil.
Good Lord! I've just been trying to stay alive.
>Go somewhere else!
>
>Just to be clear, defense of the homeland, particularly
>against England, has been and always will be my first
>objective.
Just to be serious for a moment, I have no illusions of taking French
soil. Nor need to, because there will never be an English solo in
titleist. We had dreams once.
I wouldn't mind retaking Belgium and Holland in the process of proceeding
toward a friendly draw. To my way of thinking, a friendly draw should
conclude with the participants all of roughly equal strength. It may be
that the only obstacle to a draw is acknowledgement on the part of France
(hey, that's you!) that there will be no French solo. Once that occurs,
France may wish to honorably cede some territory to her allies.
Ivy
Message from England to France, Italy, and Russia
To my friends in strife.
It's been a very good holiday with our family all here together. I've been
lucky at "hearts" each of the past two evenings.
Tomorrow (Sunday) we will be visiting my in-laws in Elmira, New York. Then
back to work on Monday. And back to war too, I suppose.
I hope all is going well with each of you.
Ivy Wingo
Message from France to all
GLORIOUS!
What a glorious hunt. The boar was a big as a horse and
twice as angry as bees when their hive is disturbed. He
nearly gutted two courtiers before we could bring him
down. Our success was still in doubt when someone
mentioned that the boar reminded them of me, in his
relentlessness; then my brother came to life. He took
the boar down with an intensity that I have never seen
before. Perhaps he has more spunk than I thought. At
any rate it is good to see him back to himself. He
should be able to pick back up the negotiations soon.
We roast the boar and served a huge feast with stuffing,
cranberry sauce, gravy, potatoes of all sorts. It was
worry of making it a yearly tradition. Perhaps we shall.
I hope your holiday was equally enjoyable.
Le DAUPHIN
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I am in a good mood after the hunt, so I will go easy on
you.
>I wouldn't mind retaking Belgium and Holland in the
>process of proceeding toward a friendly draw. To my
>way of thinking, a friendly draw should conclude with
> the participants all of roughly equal strength.
>It may be that the only obstacle to a draw is
>acknowledgement on the part of France (hey, that's
>you!) that there will be no French solo. Once that
>occurs, France may wish to honorably cede some
>territory to her allies.
What kind of fools do you take us for? OK, my brother
gives the impression of being a fool, but collectly we
are not crazy. We will not readily place our head in the
guillotine!
Unfortunately, we are not some soft corner country that
can survive by setting up a defense with a half dozen
units. Our size is our safety. If you wish to have some
centers, get out your tin cup and go knock on someone
else's door!
Le DAUPHIN
PS: Please accept this gift of smoked boar's meat. It
is quite excellent. Feel free to have your food taster
test it, but it has not been tampered with. I would send
my brother to prove it, but he is scheduled to study
tactics in a turkish prison.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I hope that your day of cards and such with the relatives
was nice. I got caught up on Sat. and Sun., but was
dealing with sick kids. We still have not seen Harry
Potter as we are waiting for both of them to be healthy
enough at the same time to go.
I apologize for my brother's boorishness. He may deal in
tactics, but he lacks in tact. Obviously I agree with
his point, that if France willingly allows those powers
surrounding her to grow, that the likely next step is her
being squashed between them. Also, Belgium is not ours
to give, at least not right now; and Holland may not be
ours in the future. You did not mention Munich, but it
seems to fall under that same category. It may not be
ours to give either.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to Master, England, Italy, Russia, and Turkey
Mes Amis:
I will likely not be available after dinner time tonight
because I must get up at 3AM tomorrow. I will then be
gone all day, so I ask Doug to extend the next deadline
by one day. If you want to send me any harassing or
obnoxious messages, please do so by dinner time tonight.
Otherwise I will not be able to enjoy them until late
Wednesday morning.
Thanks,
France
Message from Master to all
Extension untill Wednesday night.
Does *anyone* pronounce the "d" in Wednesday? I've only ever heard
it pronounced as "Wens-day" . . .
Doug
masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
for game 'titleist' to Wed Nov 28 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Grace period deadline advanced to Mon Dec 03 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
We better get our end of the line straightened out, because the Italian
moves are likely to be done at the last minute if past practice
holds. Also, anything we decide will affect Silesia.
I am willing to go along with cutting all four armies that surround Belguim
even though France knows about the possibility. On the other hand, I am
reluctant to move Channel->Picardy if we attempt Belgium->Holland, for I
fear that Channel->Picardy might actually succeed in that case. That
wouldn't be good.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto/Idalia,
Deadline isn't until Wednesday, so we have a little more time.
You have several goals.
(1) Defend Constantinople.
(2) Retake Bulgaria.
(3) Finish off Turkey.
(4) Protect Serbia/Budapest
As you know, they are somewhat incompatible. My best shot was
Galicia supp Ser->Budapest
Romania->Serbia
Ankara & Smyrna supp Constantinople
Armenia->Sevastopol.
These moves take care of (1) and (4). They fail at (2). The only way you
could miss on (3) is if Turkey ordered BlackSea->Rumania AND France
attacked neither Budapest or Serbia.
Russia didn't seem to be too happy with Armenia-> Sevastopol, saying that
the Armenian army is needed to defend the corner. For my part, I see you
soon taking the offense against France by putting pressure on Bulgaria from
the north. I don't think France will have the luxury of anything like
Greece->Aegean->EasternMed. I could be wrong though.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> I am willing to go along with cutting all four armies that surround Bel
> even though France knows about the possibility. On the other hand,
> I am reluctant to move Channel->Picardy if we attempt Bel->Hol,
> for I fear that Channel->Picardy might actually succeed in that case.
France can attack Mun, Kie, or Bel, so I'm hesitant to order Mun-Bur,
Kie-Ruh, since Bur S Ruh-Mun, Hol-Kie would give him 15 Centers
and two builds. I think Sil S Mun, Mun S Kie, Kie & Nth S Bel-Hol
would be better.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>France can attack Mun, Kie, or Bel, so I'm hesitant to order Mun-Bur,
>Kie-Ruh, since Bur S Ruh-Mun, Hol-Kie would give him 15 Centers
>and two builds.
This describes the worst case scenerio, but this does not give France two
builds at all. With these moves I enter Holland from Yorkshire. For the
year then, France gets Kiel from me while I get Holland from him. You have
to retreat back to Berlin and France keeps Munich. No gain or loss of
centers for any of us. At least at the start of the next year we are in
Ruhr, Denmark, and Silesia, and now France has a mess on his hands.
>I think Sil S Mun, Mun S Kie, Kie & Nth S Bel-Hol
>would be better.
This time the worst case is France taking Belgium from Holland. Once again
the year is even, with you getting Munich from France and France getting
Belgium from you. Belgium, however, is destroyed. There is no retreat and
we lose a key unit. I think the aftermath leaves us in trouble. Assume
Piedmont->Tyrolia and look at the position.
I prefer the first worse-case situation to the second worst-case situation.
Of course, if we outguess France, we do better than either worst-case.
Please take one more look at this. Then I will happily go with whatever
you choose.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
I wrote to you this morning, but that letter has
not yet appeared, so I'm trying again to see if USIN
is down, or if the problem is with my home ISP. It
seems to me that France has to order Bre & Spa S MAO,
because he can't afford to lose MAO, and he can't
order Pic-Bel because he needs to control Pic to
hold MAO.
In the East, F Bul/SC can't Support Bla-Rum, so
an attack on Con seems likely. Idalia, how do you
want to handle the defense of Sev and Bud?
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> I prefer the first worse-case situation to the second worst-case
situation.
> Of course, if we outguess France, we do better than either worst-case.
Let's look at what we know:
1) If France doesn't order Bre & Spa S MAO, he risks losing MAO.
I don't think he can afford to take that risk, do you?
2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
3) His Army in Holland is somewhat isolated, and at risk.
4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel (assuming Ruh-Bel),
and Bur.
5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's hoping to
hold in the West and grow in the East. (Fleet Mar would have
locked down MAO.)
6) Italy doesn't write enough. (Sorry, had to be said. 8-)
Anything else that we know? Do you agree with 1-6? Based on what
we know, what should we do? I'll let this perk for a while, and get
back to you. Please let me know what you think.
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
I'm back, and ready to move forward. Idalia, we, or at least I, haven't
heard from you since the 20th. Have you had a chance to look at our
position, and the early ideas that Ivy and I suggested? What do you
think we should do in the Southeast?
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
I am in a brief interval between the evening meal and a journey to see
Harry Potter. I'll be back around 10:30 eastern and may have time for a
note then, but little time for analysis. Unfortunately, I still have some
work to do that I brought home with me.
As for Italy, expect the usual flurry of messages beginning the afternoon
prior to the deadline. Seems to be a pattern.
Ivy
>Let's look at what we know:
>
>1) If France doesn't order Bre & Spa S MAO, he risks losing MAO.
> I don't think he can afford to take that risk, do you?
>2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
>3) His Army in Holland is somewhat isolated, and at risk.
>4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel (assuming Ruh-Bel),
> and Bur.
>5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's hoping to
> hold in the West and grow in the East. (Fleet Mar would have
> locked down MAO.)
>6) Italy doesn't write enough. (Sorry, had to be said. 8-)
>
>Anything else that we know? Do you agree with 1-6? Based on what
>we know, what should we do? I'll let this perk for a while, and get
>back to you. Please let me know what you think.
>
>In Alliance,
>
>Nick.
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
We just got back from seeing Harry Potter. I can't remember if you have
seen it or not. I think it is rather dark and scary for, say, a 7-year
old. My wife says it depends on what the 7-year old has already been
exposed to. Well, it scared me. 8-)
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
In addition to the 4-cut option, I could also go with
Nth supp Bel->Holland
Kiel supp Bel->Holland
Channel->Picardy
Silesia supp Munich
This has as its worst case the loss of Belgium and Kiel, which would be
offset by our gain of Holland and Munich for the year. I have to retreat
Kiel to Berlin. Nobody gains or loses net.
I worry about options that permit the permanent destruction of your fleet.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> In addition to the 4-cut option, I could also go with
>
> Nth supp Bel->Holland
> Kiel supp Bel->Holland
> Channel->Picardy
> Silesia supp Munich
>
> I worry about options that permit the permanent destruction of your fleet.
I think we need to decide on an approach and an objective in the West
and then make moves to accomplish that objective. As I see it we can
try to hold our position, perhaps trading Bel for Hol and Ruhr, and keep
France from advancing in the West while moving to lock down the
Eastern side of the stalemate line, or we can try to bring pressure against
France and move forward against him. Any set of moves we choose can
backfire on us and result in French gains, if France guesses what we have
planned.
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Thanks for the update on Harry Potter. We will probably
end up taking them. They have read/listened to all the
books.
Prince Boar
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>I think we need to decide on an approach and an objective in the West
>and then make moves to accomplish that objective. As I see it we can
>try to hold our position, perhaps trading Bel for Hol and Ruhr, and keep
>France from advancing in the West while moving to lock down the
>Eastern side of the stalemate line,
It's still dangerous if we get careless. I remain in the
stop-France-from-winning mode. Once we stalemate him, I think we will
discover that he has not stalemated us, and we will be able to begin taking
some units away from him. We all like France, but he is trying to win
outright. After he is 100% stopped, we can then think about how best to
end the game.
In line with what you said above, I hope we can get your fleet to Holland,
where it can be part of a solid defense line. First and foremost, that
requires saving the fleet.
> or we can try to bring pressure against
>France and move forward against him. Any set of moves we choose can
>backfire on us and result in French gains, if France guesses what we have
>planned.
He can gain on this fall move if he guesses correctly, but worst case
scenarios leave us unchanged for the year.
Can you think of any set of moves that are certain to save Belgium other
that the two that were last mentioned (cut all four armies; support
Belgium->Holland while cutting Picardy). Are we down to just those two
choices?
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
>1) If France doesn't order Bre & Spa S MAO, he risks losing MAO.
> I don't think he can afford to take that risk, do you?
>2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
>3) His Army in Holland is somewhat isolated, and at risk.
>4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel (assuming Ruh-Bel),
> and Bur.
>5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's hoping to
> hold in the West and grow in the East. (Fleet Mar would have
> locked down MAO.)
>6) Italy doesn't write enough. (Sorry, had to be said. 8-)
>
>Anything else that we know? Do you agree with 1-6?
I agree with all but #5. That army in Piedmont may be headed for Tyrolia,
where it can be used against Munich on the western front. If we make bad
moves (or just very bad guesses) we could lose your fleet and Munich. Then
France might be able to overrun the west with all those armies.
I reach the same conclusion. Let's not do anything to risk the fleet. We
can either save it in it's current position or try to get it to
Holland. We actually could afford the loss of Munich if we had a solid
line Holland-Kiel-Berlin-Silesia.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Russia
> What do you think we should do in the Southeast?
>
After some careful thought, I think the proper move to defend Bud/Ser is
Gal-Vie. I'll handle the rest.
I do have two questions that haven't been mentioned yet.
1) What am I supposed to do with Silesia?
2) I assume Lvn will move to Warsaw. Correct? That decision does effect my
moves.
Sorry for my delay in response. It's been busy (once again) around these
parts.
Idalia
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > What do you think we should do in the Southeast?
>I think the proper move to defend Bud/Ser is
>Gal-Vie. I'll handle the rest.
Gotta love the level of trust... Your defense affects
of the corner is crucial to the success of EIR. I'd
appreciate it if you'd at least discuss it with Ivy,
if you don't trust me.
>I do have two questions that haven't been mentioned yet.
>1) What am I supposed to do with Silesia?
Sil S Mun, or Mun S Sil-Tyl seem like the most
reasonable alternatives.
>2) I assume Lvn will move to Warsaw. Correct? That decision does effect
>my moves.
That wasn't my plan, but unless you're willing to
tell me how my order for Lvn affect your moves, I
don't see much reason to share my plans with you. 8-)
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Gotta love the level of trust...
>
My apologies if you interpreted my message as mistrust. That was not its
intention. I simply don't have a ton of time to write a dissertation on the
myriad of combinations possible.
Assuming Warsaw was still to be Italian and the deadline were in 5 minutes,
here are the moves I would make. Luckily, the deadline isn't in 5 minutes.
:)
ser - bul
rum s ser - bul
con s ser - bul
smy - aeg
ank - bla
arm - ank (although I may chicken out and order to SEV)
sil ????? (please TELL me what to order, I promise I won't question your
decision)
> Mun S Sil-Tyl
(I assume you meant 'mun s sil-BOH' although I'd sure love to order Sil-Tyl
this turn)
The thinking with the above moves is, if Turkey moves to SEV (highly highly
unlikely I'm thinking), we destroy the fleet next spring. France can only
get at most a 1 center gain from Bud/Ser. He can't get to Serbia unless I
get to Bul. He can't get to both Bud and Ser unless Russia gets to Vie
(assumes Gal->Vie is ordered). If he takes Budapest, we should be able to
kick him out next year as Rumania won't have to worry about the Turkish
fleet. I actually don't double support CON but I break all the possible
supports in a way that also prevents (for the time being) aeg-eas, gre-aeg.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
>My apologies if you interpreted my message as mistrust.
Sorry, I should have eaten then replied, I get grumpy
when I'm hungry. ;^}
> > Mun S Sil-Tyl
>(I assume you meant 'mun s sil-BOH'
Whoops, sorry, shoulda looked at the map. Sil S Mun
makes more sense than Sil-Boh, I think. Especially
given the possibility of Hol-Kie, Bur S Ruh-Mun.
(Nick goes to eat...)
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >1) France has to order Bre & Spa S MAO.
> >2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
> >3) His Army in Holland is at risk.
> >4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel and Bur.
> >5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's > hoping grow
>in the East.
>That army in Piedmont may be headed for Tyrolia,
>where it can be used against Munich on the western front. If we make bad
>moves (or just very bad guesses) we could
>lose your fleet and Munich. Then France might be able to overrun the west
>with all those armies.
True.
>Let's not do anything to risk the fleet.
I would certainly like to keep the Fleet, but I'm not
sure it's more important than say keeping France out
of ECh.
>save it in it's current position or try to get it to
>Holland.
My gut says Holland.
>It's still dangerous if we get careless. I remain in the
>stop-France-from-winning mode.
Obviously, but do you think we should attack or defend
to do it? ECh S Bel-Pic is a possibility here, if we
want to be aggressive, while Bel-Hol is more
defensively oriented. (I doubt France will order
Hol-Bel, it's at best a trade while Ruh-Bel gives
him a shot at growth.)
>[Will] any set of moves save Belgium other than the two that were last
>mentioned (cut all four armies;
>support Belgium->Holland while cutting Picardy). Are we down to those two
>choices?
The only other possibility I see is ECh S Bel-Pic,
Kie S Yor-Hel, Sil S Mun??? We'd probably lose
Bel, but we'd probably gain Pic.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>(I doubt France will order
>Hol-Bel, it's at best a trade while Ruh-Bel gives
>him a shot at growth.)
It's Picardy->Holland that I fear most, because I don't want to
accidentally succeed with Channel->Picardy. I just want to cut Picardy.
I have grown accustomed to deferring to your tactical decisions unless I
have a very firm objection. This time I still don't have your decision,
and time grows late. Soooo ...
Fortunately, I think we are converging on Belgium->Holland with the support
of Kiel and North Sea. Should we toss in Channel->Picardy? Perhaps. Given
the late hour, I propose that we settle on this. If you counter with
another suggestion, then I will (almost certainly) go with that without any
objection.
We need to tell Italy that Silesia supp Munich is final then.
One more thing. Since you say you are not inclined to move
Livonia->Warsaw, I assume you have Livonia->StP in mind. I can't
object. StP is yours whenever you want it. This means that I may have to
destroy a unit, most likely the army in Denmark or the one in
England. That's probably better than Italy having to destroy a unit, which
would be remotely possible with Livinia->Warsaw.
We also need to tell Italy that he will keep Warsaw for another year.
Ivy
> > >1) France has to order Bre & Spa S MAO.
> > >2) If he loses Picardy, he loses MAO.
> > >3) His Army in Holland is at risk.
> > >4) Allowing us into Ruhr would expose Hol, Bel and Bur.
> > >5) Build A Mar, followed by Mar-Pie, suggests that he's > hoping grow
> >in the East.
>
> >That army in Piedmont may be headed for Tyrolia,
> >where it can be used against Munich on the western front. If we make bad
> >moves (or just very bad guesses) we could
> >lose your fleet and Munich. Then France might be able to overrun the west
> >with all those armies.
>
>True.
>
> >Let's not do anything to risk the fleet.
>
>I would certainly like to keep the Fleet, but I'm not
>sure it's more important than say keeping France out
>of ECh.
>
> >save it in it's current position or try to get it to
> >Holland.
>
>My gut says Holland.
>
> >It's still dangerous if we get careless. I remain in the
> >stop-France-from-winning mode.
>
>Obviously, but do you think we should attack or defend
>to do it? ECh S Bel-Pic is a possibility here, if we
>want to be aggressive, while Bel-Hol is more
>defensively oriented. (I doubt France will order
>Hol-Bel, it's at best a trade while Ruh-Bel gives
>him a shot at growth.)
>
> >[Will] any set of moves save Belgium other than the two that were last
> >mentioned (cut all four armies;
> >support Belgium->Holland while cutting Picardy). Are we down to those two
> >choices?
>
>The only other possibility I see is ECh S Bel-Pic,
>Kie S Yor-Hel, Sil S Mun??? We'd probably lose
>Bel, but we'd probably gain Pic.
>
>Nick.
Message from England to Italy
> > Gotta love the level of trust...
> >
>
>My apologies if you interpreted my message as mistrust.
An apology when none is needed. Admirable. Wouldn't you rather just
strangle people sometimes?
Message from England to Italy and Russia
It seems to be clear that Silesia supports Munich and that Warsaw remains
in Italian hands for another year.
>ser - bul
>rum s ser - bul
>con s ser - bul
>smy - aeg
>ank - bla
>arm - ank (although I may chicken out and order to SEV)
>sil ????? (please TELL me what to order, I promise I won't question your
>decision)
Isn't Armenia->Sevastopol superior to Armenia->Ankara in that it makes
certain the instant death of Turkey?
[I'll make a prediction for French moves: Trieste->Serbia;
Aegean->Constantinople; BlackSea->Rumania, to cut all supports for any
attack on Bulgaria, plus Vienna->Budapest.]
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> Isn't Armenia->Sevastopol superior to Armenia->Ankara in that it makes
> certain the instant death of Turkey?
>
Nothing is certain in this game:
ank-bla
arm-sev
BLA-ARM
and Ankara remains Turkish. I know, I know. What are the odds?
I'll most likely order the 'superior' move.
Idalia
Message from England to Italy
>Nothing is certain in this game:
My poor tactical ability seems certain.
>ank-bla
>arm-sev
>BLA-ARM
>and Ankara remains Turkish.
Yup.
> I know, I know. What are the odds?
Truly slim, because France/Turkey will not expect Ankara->BlackSea
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
> Message from England to Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> It seems to be clear that Silesia supports Munich and that Warsaw remains
> in Italian hands for another year.
Actually my "if I don't get any mail before the deadline" moves were
Lvn-StP,
Gal-War. 8-) Taking War probably makes more sense in terms of being
able to build near the front next year, but if it's too late to change that,
I'll
leave Warsaw Italian this year.
>ser - bul
>rum s ser - bul
>con s ser - bul
>smy - aeg
>ank - bla
>arm - ank (although I may chicken out and order to SEV)
>sil - war
> Isn't Armenia->Sevastopol superior to Armenia->Ankara in that it makes
> certain the instant death of Turkey?
Yes, but we need an Italian Unit in Syr much more than we do in Sev. I
think Idalia is right that Bla-Sev is unlikely. I'd assume that France will
try
to coordinate move with Ali, and Bla-Sev doesn't help France, even if it
succeeds.
> [ I'll make a prediction for French moves: Trieste->Serbia;
> Aegean->Constantinople; BlackSea->Rumania, to cut all
> supports for any attack on Bulgaria, plus Vienna->Budapest.]
Sounds clever enough.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> It's Picardy->Holland that I fear most, because I don't want to
> accidentally succeed with Channel->Picardy. I just want to cut Picardy.
Actually, ECh-Pic, Pic-Bel, Bel retreats to ECh lets us take MAO next
Spring... I suppose it would be bad if Bel-Hol worked, though.
> I have grown accustomed to deferring to your tactical decisions unless
> I have a very firm objection. This time I still don't have your decision,
> and time grows late. Soooo ...
It has been pointed out to me that once I devise a plan, it's nearly
impossible to get me to change my mind, and that tends to annoy people.
So,I've been striving to allow my allies to formulate the plans, and then
offer alternatives. ;^} It doesn't seem to be working, though... 8-)
> Fortunately, I think we are converging on Belgium->Holland with the
support
> of Kiel and North Sea.
Agreed.
> Should we toss in Channel->Picardy? Perhaps. Given
> the late hour, I propose that we settle on this.
I don't object to ECh-Pic, but given that Pic will either move to Bel, or
Suppport a move to Bel, it seems to make sense only if you hope to move
to Pic.
> I assume you have Livonia->StP in mind.
I left for Thanksgiving before Doug extended the deadline so I put in
default
orders of Lvn-StP and Gal-War. I assumed one or both would change, if we
ever got a chance to negotiate.
> That's probably better than Italy having to destroy a unit, which
> would be remotely possible with Livinia->Warsaw.
Actually Italy has one more Center than he has Units, so I could take War
without him disbanding, assuming he doesn't lose another Center to France
or Turkey. I'll change to Lvn-War with this letter.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
>> Isn't Armenia->Sevastopol superior to Armenia->Ankara in that it makes
>> certain the instant death of Turkey?
>
>Yes, but we need an Italian Unit in Syr much more than we do in Sev.
I think that Nick and I disagree (respectfully) on this one. An army in
Syria is needed only if France manages to occupy Bulgaria, Aegean, and
EasMed. But he cannot advance Greece & Aegean to Aegean & EasMed without
losing Bulgaria. In that case, fleets in Aegean and EasMed don't help him
anymore. If Armenia does manage to go to Sevastopol, it can continue on to
Rumania, because the current army in Rumania will push on to Bulgaria or
Budapest. Probably. 8-)
>Actually my "if I don't get any mail before the deadline" moves were
>Lvn-StP,
>Gal-War. 8-) Taking War probably makes more sense in terms of being
>able to build near the front next year, but if it's too late to change that,
>I'll
>leave Warsaw Italian this year.
I am very worried that there is going to be an accidental misunderstanding
between the two of you on what is happening or not happening in Warsaw this
turn. I say that, because I myself do not know what is going to happen
there. I hope you can straighten this out, even at this late hour.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>It has been pointed out to me that once I devise a plan, it's nearly
>impossible to get me to change my mind, and that tends to annoy people.
>So,I've been striving to allow my allies to formulate the plans, and then
>offer alternatives. ;^} It doesn't seem to be working, though... 8-)
Isn't this how marriages break up? "You're not the person I married."
>> Fortunately, I think we are converging on Belgium->Holland with the
>support
>> of Kiel and North Sea.
>
>Agreed.
Ok. Agreed.
>> Should we toss in Channel->Picardy? Perhaps. Given
>> the late hour, I propose that we settle on this.
>
>I don't object to ECh-Pic, but given that Pic will either move to Bel, or
>Suppport a move to Bel, it seems to make sense only if you hope to move
>to Pic.
Ugh. I don't hope to move to Picardy. I just want your fleet to survive
and I worry about Picardy contributing support for Holland to Belgium.
I think I a going to try Channel->Picardy
**********
> I'll change to Lvn-War with this letter.
Gulp! That's fine with me, but please let's not surprise Italy with this.
Does he know?
Ivy
England: Fleet English Channel → Picardy
England: Fleet Irish Sea SUPPORT Fleet North Atlantic Ocean → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
England: Army Kiel SUPPORT Russian Fleet Belgium → Holland
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean → Mid-Atlantic Ocean (*bounce*)
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Russian Fleet Belgium → Holland
England: Army Sweden → Denmark
England: Army Yorkshire → Wales
France: Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*cut*)
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Fleet Bulgaria (south coast)
France: Army Holland SUPPORT Army Picardy → Belgium (*destroyed*)
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Russian Fleet Belgium → English Channel (*void*)
France: Army Picardy → Belgium
France: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia
France: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Holland
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Trieste SUPPORT Army Vienna → Budapest
France: Army Vienna → Budapest
Italy: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Armenia → Ankara (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*cut*)
Italy: Army Rumania SUPPORT Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*cut*)
Italy: Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Silesia SUPPORT Russian Army Munich
Italy: Fleet Smyrna → Aegean Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Belgium → Holland
Russia: Army Galicia → Vienna
Russia: Army Livonia → Warsaw
Russia: Army Munich SUPPORT English Army Kiel → Ruhr (*void*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea → Rumania (*bounce*)
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