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Message from Italy to Austria
> Andy,
>
> Any suggestion?
>
Question for you.
If you have to lose a dot, who would you prefer to lose it to,
Russia, Turkey or me.
I think that we MUST get Turkey and Russia fighting.
Offer Turkey Trieste if he will not support Budapest. Tell him you would
prefer he got your dots than the Russian. He seems to bite on things like
that.
Tell him I am supporting Vienna or playing with Munich or whatnot.
you order
Tri - Bud
Vie s Tri - Bud
Alb s Ion - Gre
Tyr - Tri
Ion - Gre
I will let the russian know that I am moving Ion...which he will relay to
the Turk and he will try to take Ion with Gre as the supporting unit.
I will also try to get Russia to tap Bul...on principle.
How does that sound.
Message from Italy to England
> > Now cut out his bloody heart.
> This sort of makes me want to play with the Pitkissers, and sort of makes me
> alittle nervous. ;o)
> Can you offer support for RUH - MUN?
Not sure. I may have a need for Tyrolia down south....why would I be
spporting Germany back into Munich...other than to slow the Russian down,
who is likely my only ally on the east side of the board.
Message from Italy to France
Erik,
Now that we have the customary, finger pointing out of the way.
How do we untangle from this mess.
Andy
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
> >> I know I'm getting to be a threat, but I don't
> >> know if I'm the lesser of the evils of "allies" that you face.
> >
> >I dont know what you mean here.
>
> I mean that I don't know if you're more worried about me and my position, or
> more angry with Philippe and Jason for continuing to pursue you. I suspect
> the former at this point.
Well....these are two different things, hitting Philippe is out of the
question til I have a couple more dots, hitting Jason is definitely
possible, but you seem to be propped up in bed with him....smoking.
What do I get out of attacking Philippe and/or Jason.
> >> So, if you know Philippe was vacating Tri, would you have moved there
> >> yourself?
> >
> >Probably not.
>
> Not surprising.
It wasnt fall.....if you are going to 1 dot someone, which I rarely advise
on doing, you do it in the fall.
> >So..what can you offer me.
>
> Well, it depends on what you want. There are certainly ways I could distract
> Turkey and perhaps help you regain Gre (though I doubt that could happen by
> Fall unless Philippe helps you). But would you be okay with gaining on Jason
> and Philippe in a way that also helps my position?
I might be able to get Philippe to help me.
As long as it gets us closer to being equals where I can be the fleet
power and you can be the army power and we eventually DMZ the turkish
home centers, I can work toward that.
> > Its going to take you a while to get another
> > army in position to force this situation.
>
> No doubt, and that's assuming I even hold the position I have.
>
> > How do you see the board right now....
>
> Well, if Boh-Mun had bounced as I thought it would, I'd probably offer you
> Vie (and by extension, Tri next year). But whatever our relationship, I don't
> want to see Jason get a free pass into Italy, so I'd like to see you get some
> units to slow him down. I don't know if that means stabbing him necessarily
> -- helping you acheives much of the same goal, I think.
Well...you are giving him one assuming you keep the pressure on Austria
and not attacking him .
> Philippe seem
> to have a really odd relationship. Is there some history there, or did you
> both just hit it off really badly in early negotiations?
>
The latter.
> > who do you stab and when??
>
> At this point I'm really not sure what I'm going to do next -- it's too early
> in the turn (you can see why I envy your FtF skills). I clearly don't need
> any more builds than I appear to have now; though I may need more dots, since
> I can't necessarily hold either I'm on right now.
Please tell me you are kidding....
Berlin works every day.
Well...I will be adding lots to my journal of *what I would do if I were
Russia and has this positioning*.
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
> How does that sound.
Sound like a good plan. I will check to see
if Turkey is biting and get back to you.
Message from Austria to Turkey
Well,
Can't say that I'm please with how things turn out, at least
Andy didn't stab me for once. You obviously didn't care
for my last offer, but what about the following? Let me get
back Bud and take Tri for yourself instead.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
> > How does that sound.
>
> Sound like a good plan. I will check to see
> if Turkey is biting and get back to you.
Thanks...
I think it helps us both.
Message from France to Italy
> Now that we have the customary, finger pointing out of the way.
>
> How do we untangle from this mess.
>
Yes, always good to get the squabbling out of the way so we can get down to
business.
The big problem, as I see it, is that Russia is about to run away with the
game, and Turkey is helping him do it. My obvious routes of expansion
right now are into you or into England, but weakening either of you hurts
your ability to prevent Russia and Turkey from getting out of control.
It's a pickle.
The best course of action might be to work with England to get him to
abandon the continent and focus on Scandanavia, allowing me to pour armies
through Kiel / Ruhr / Munich and into Russia. At the same time, I could
withdraw from the Med while leaving one Navy down there -- not enough to
threaten you, but enough to support your navies where needed against
Turkey.
Thoughts?
Erik
Message from Germany to Russia
Well my moves are in, BER - KIE, RUH S HOL. It would have been great if you
followed through last turn but with 3 builds you dont have nothing to worry
about. I could use RUH to help support BER - KIE but I think I do more harm
if I help support HOL. I need someone to solo in this game it may as well be
you ;-)
Keep me as a puppet and sparring partner ;-)
If I am out then so does everyone else have to be.
Message from Germany to France
I am sure you did everything possible to convince Ben that peace was in both
your interest.
You fleet build in MAR said enough. I was amazed to see him build in LVP and
even more amazed at his moves last fall where he attacked you. Russia will
walk all over him. My move to HOL was merely to cut support for support of
KIE. Russia was meant to support BER - KIE usuing BAL and move SWE - DEN and
SIL - BER.
He told me he was kicking himself for not doing so in hindsight.
I am up fronty when I say I will support HOL this fall. I am lost now
anyway. My advice to you for moves would be;
f mao - bre
f spa - por
f gol - spa
a bur s bel
a bel s hol
a ruh s hol
a ber - kie
This stops England from going anywhere quickly. At worst he takes HOL with
KIE supported by NTH & HEL but then I would enter KIE. If he tries any other
combination then all will bounce. Trust me on this one. I owe nothing to
Ben. My last press to you and him was a sincere effort to turn the game,
even with me out of it. he should have built in EDI and LON and trusted you
to move away as you did. Russia has him wrapped around his thumb. I am exit
this fall but I hate to see strategic bad decisions. I made loads this game
but you and england have a chance. I hope he hasnt blown it but I know he
has. He wont be able to move on Russia anymore and he seems bent on
attacking you. Russia gets three builds, he will build in STP. England is
lost. I predict a Russian solo. My move are in as mentioned. Good luck.
Message from Italy to France
Erik,
>
> Yes, always good to get the squabbling out of the way so we can get down to
> business.
Exactly.
> The big problem, as I see it, is that Russia is about to run away with the
> game, and Turkey is helping him do it. My obvious routes of expansion
> right now are into you or into England, but weakening either of you hurts
> your ability to prevent Russia and Turkey from getting out of control.
> It's a pickle.
Ok....I think that England wants to fight you, that is just my feeling.
I dont want to fight you, and I can hold off the Turk, and support
Austria for a time, as long as you dont attack me.
We need to get Turkey and Russia fighting, and if I can bottle up the
Turk, he wont have any choice in the matter, he will have to deal with the
Russian.
>
> The best course of action might be to work with England to get him to
> abandon the continent and focus on Scandanavia, allowing me to pour armies
> through Kiel / Ruhr / Munich and into Russia.
You will need to spend next year showing him that he cant overrun you.
Which he believes he can do, and without some sort of reason to stop
taking your dots, he wont.
Do you think you can get Tony to help you, in return for helping him.
Offer to support Ber- Kie in return for Ruh supporting Holland.
Support Belgium with Burgandy. So that even if Tony bails on you, you
protect one of your dots.....
Also....Spa - Por and Lyo - Spa will guarantee leverage on the Mao in the
Spring. Mao has to go to Bre in the fall.
At the same time, I could
> withdraw from the Med while leaving one Navy down there -- not enough to
> threaten you, but enough to support your navies where needed against
> Turkey.
I dont think you can afford to take on the English with only 2 fleets
until at the very earliest you can protect Bre with an army....
take care
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> > Can you offer support for RUH - MUN?
>
> Not sure. I may have a need for Tyrolia down south....why would I be
> spporting Germany back into Munich...other than to slow the
> Russian down,
> who is likely my only ally on the east side of the board.
Slowing the Russian down. Not even stopping - just slowing down. That's
the reason. If you can't you can't.
Ben
Message from Russia to Austria
> Come on, I was pretty clear about my intent and you knew
> I wasn't a threat for you. That's what made it easy for you to
> proceed without covering Gal.
I wasn't disiagreeing with the "not a threat" point. I agree, and I don't
think I said anything to contradict that in my message to you. My concern was
your plan to support Turkey to Rum in Fall -- that would mean a full year of
me holding in place, and unless I missed it we didn't talk about how we would
progress beyond that point. In that sense I'm disagreeing with the "pretty
clear about my [your] intent" statement. If you said something that you
thought made it clear how we would cooperate in Fall or next year, then I
missed it and I apologize -- I honestly did try to figure out what we would
do. What I thought I heard from you is that you would want to cooperate with
Turkey against me in Fall (making sure it was unsuccessful), and that you
were not interested in cooperative moves this year regardless of what
happened with the Spring moves.
On Ser -- would you be willing to accept my support into Ser this Fall
(instead of vice-versa), and then have me vacate in Spring of next season?
There's more opportunity for your growth that way. It looks like Andy will be
leaving you alone for at least a season, so that should give you the
flexibility to retake Bud without pressure. This is not a demand, just a
request.
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> On Ser -- would you be willing to accept my support into Ser this Fall
> (instead of vice-versa), and then have me vacate in Spring of next season?
> There's more opportunity for your growth that way. It looks like Andy will be
> leaving you alone for at least a season, so that should give you the
> flexibility to retake Bud without pressure. This is not a demand, just a
> request.
I'm not interested as I wouldn't able to support myself.
Message from Russia to Germany
At this point I don't know if I'm serious, but what would you think about
something like this:
Ber-Bal-Den
Hol-Kie (Mun S)
I have no idea what France is up to, but even if he taps Mun, there's still a
good chance that you'll end up in Kie and Den. The question I haven't looked
at myself is whether that's good position for going forward. What's your
take?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Austria
I can see that (the concern about self support). So what do you think the
odds are that you can get Andy to support you to Gre? If you can and it
works, you could actually end up building one this Fall, with an open home
center in which to do it.
I'd be left with a unit that I can't support, but that's okay; I wouldn't be
looking to hold Ser for the purpose of getting a build or a unit anyway.
Assuming you get a build or move Vie-Bud, I would expect you to take Ser next
year anyway (unless you needed it to help you get you into Gre), and would
hand it over voluntarily.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > > Can you offer support for RUH - MUN?
> >
> > Not sure. I may have a need for Tyrolia down south....why would I be
> > spporting Germany back into Munich...other than to slow the
> > Russian down,
> > who is likely my only ally on the east side of the board.
> Slowing the Russian down. Not even stopping - just slowing down. That's
> the reason. If you can't you can't.
I am thinking the best way for you to slow down the Russian is be as
formidible as you can be, when the time comes.....
You are guaranteed one build, and should get 2 from the French.
That will give you the fleets to go play in Scandanavia.
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> I am thinking the best way for you to slow down the Russian is be as
> formidible as you can be, when the time comes.....
>
> You are guaranteed one build, and should get 2 from the French.
>
> That will give you the fleets to go play in Scandanavia.
I am proud to say, this is the plan I had already come up with. The problem
is if Russia gets three builds then I think I still end up getting squished.
*Unless* you can get Turkey to go after RUM, which I am mentioning to him as
well - turning Russian attention south. It seems a natural move. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > I am thinking the best way for you to slow down the Russian is be as
> > formidible as you can be, when the time comes.....
> >
> > You are guaranteed one build, and should get 2 from the French.
> >
> > That will give you the fleets to go play in Scandanavia.
> I am proud to say, this is the plan I had already come up with. The problem
> is if Russia gets three builds then I think I still end up getting squished.
My feeling is that he can get 3 builds and we may have no say at all in
it.
> *Unless* you can get Turkey to go after RUM, which I am mentioning to him as
> well - turning Russian attention south. It seems a natural move. . .
Im working on it.
Message from Austria to Russia
> I can see that (the concern about self support). So what do you think the
> odds are that you can get Andy to support you to Gre? If you can and it
> works, you could actually end up building one this Fall, with an open home
> center in which to do it.
I'm walking on eggs with Andy, so I don't really know.
> I'd be left with a unit that I can't support, but that's okay; I wouldn't be
> looking to hold Ser for the purpose of getting a build or a unit anyway.
> Assuming you get a build or move Vie-Bud, I would expect you to take Ser next
> year anyway (unless you needed it to help you get you into Gre), and would
> hand it over voluntarily.
Just so we're clear, you'r ok with getting Ser instead of Bud?
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
It appears I've badly miscalculated, in that I did not think Eric would wind
up in MUN, and now I do not know if there is a way to keep him from three
builds. Clearly he is not now in a position where any of us can contain
him. My question is, are you prepared to go to RUM this season. I do not
know when you would get another chance, in BLA with overwhelming force
against one of his sc's.
I don't need or want a commitment - but I want you to think about it long
and hard. With Andy entangled with Erik, you should end up with the lion's
share of the Balkans, and the Austrian home centers, and at least SEV from
Russia, with an easily defended border, and a chance to press either further
north, or into the Italian centers, or both, over time.
Anyway, whatever you choose, good luck & godspeed.
Ben
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason.
Where the love.
I could call you a rat bastard for taking Greece, but it was a pretty
forgone conclusion.
You know that I can keep you bottled up in the Med...right.?
I propose to you a something that can help both of us.
Have you thought about popping the fleet in RUM.
Something like
BUL - RUM
GRE - BUL
SER s BUL - RUM
BLa - SEV
It guarantees RUM, it give me back my dot, it gets the Russian fleet out
of your back yard and if he is trying to do something sneaky...like move
to Armenia...it punishes him for it.
Otherwise, he is going to build 3 this season, and start rolling the
board.
just my .02
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
> hitting Jason is definitely
> possible, but you seem to be propped up in bed with him....smoking.
LOL! But I don't smoke.
> What do I get out of attacking Philippe and/or Jason.
Pretty much what you say you'd need below. And no, I don't expect you to
attack Philippe now (Fall) that was more a longer-term question.
>> Well, it depends on what you want. There are certainly ways I could
distract
>> Turkey and perhaps help you regain Gre (though I doubt that could happen
by
>> Fall unless Philippe helps you). But would you be okay with gaining on
Jason
>> and Philippe in a way that also helps my position?
>
>I might be able to get Philippe to help me.
FWIW, I've suggested to him that he should. Don't know if he's really
listening to me at this point, though.
> As long as it gets us closer to being equals where I can be the fleet
> power and you can be the army power and we eventually DMZ the turkish
> home centers, I can work toward that.
Well, you cooperating with Philippe in Gre makes sense to me regardless of
what you agree to (or don't) with me. I can try to suggest moves to Jason
that make him vulnerable to an attack there. If he were to lose Gre and I
were honk him off, then I would think that would go a long way towards
getting you into that position. It would also make it safer for you to
operate against Philippe -- since that would probably create an AT alliance
that would keep me from seeing gains for a while.
> Well...you are giving him one assuming you keep the pressure on Austria
> and not attacking him.
True, but that's kind of the point of the above statement. If you and
Philippe manage to take Gre (and it kind of doesn't matter who ends up there
from my point of view) then that problem is averted. From my perspective (and
correct me if I'm wrong about this) you don't care if I say that I'm going to
help you do it or not, you'll only believe the actual moves, which will tell
you how I'm going to move for the next few seasons. So I'm not promising you
anything right now, because like last season you have no reason to believe
it. My point is that you and Philippe getting together on Gre is good for you
whether or not there is an RT. And if I know that there is cooperation there,
then I at least have the option to aid it.
>> Is there some history there, or did you
>> both just hit it off really badly in early negotiations?
>
> The latter.
Wow. That's an amazing amount of animosity to create in just pre-01 talks.
I'll be intersted to see what the story is in the press.
>> At this point I'm really not sure what I'm going to do next -- it's too
early
>> in the turn (you can see why I envy your FtF skills).
>
> Please tell me you are kidding....
>
> Berlin works every day.
Well, yes. But that doesn't answer the question of HOW to take it. So maybe
I'm misunderstanding your question. I mean "try to hold my gains and make
sure EF keep fighting" is also what I was thinking, but that doesn't make it
obvious to me how I would go about it, or who if anyone should be stabbed to
get there.
> Well...I will be adding lots to my journal of *what I would do if I were
> Russia and has this positioning*.
I do appreciate this. For me, the value of playing in this game is the
feedback I can get from people critiquing my play, not so much what other
people are going to "learn from me" by observing me. Almost like a
retroactive "teachme" game.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
> > hitting Jason is definitely
> > possible, but you seem to be propped up in bed with him....smoking.
>
> LOL! But I don't smoke.
Its good that you understand my statement.
> > What do I get out of attacking Philippe and/or Jason.
>
> Pretty much what you say you'd need below. And no, I don't expect you to
> attack Philippe now (Fall) that was more a longer-term question.
Ok.
> >> Well, it depends on what you want. There are certainly ways I could
> distract
> >> Turkey and perhaps help you regain Gre (though I doubt that could happen
> by
> >> Fall unless Philippe helps you). But would you be okay with gaining on
> Jason
> >> and Philippe in a way that also helps my position?
> >
> >I might be able to get Philippe to help me.
>
> FWIW, I've suggested to him that he should. Don't know if he's really
> listening to me at this point, though.
He has said that he will.
> > As long as it gets us closer to being equals where I can be the fleet
> > power and you can be the army power and we eventually DMZ the turkish
> > home centers, I can work toward that.
>
> Well, you cooperating with Philippe in Gre makes sense to me regardless of
> what you agree to (or don't) with me.
I agree.
I can try to suggest moves to Jason
> that make him vulnerable to an attack there. If he were to lose Gre and I
> were honk him off, then I would think that would go a long way towards
> getting you into that position.
I also agree.
It would also make it safer for you to
> operate against Philippe -- since that would probably create an AT alliance
> that would keep me from seeing gains for a while.
Probably. But not assured.
> > Well...you are giving him one assuming you keep the pressure on Austria
> > and not attacking him.
>
> True, but that's kind of the point of the above statement. If you and
> Philippe manage to take Gre (and it kind of doesn't matter who ends up there
> from my point of view) then that problem is averted. From my perspective (and
> correct me if I'm wrong about this) you don't care if I say that I'm going to
> help you do it or not, you'll only believe the actual moves, which will tell
> you how I'm going to move for the next few seasons.
Yes, but not quite so thorough.
The moves play out the words, but dont always set in stone the next few
seasons, but certainly point you in the direction I can work with/or not.
So I'm not promising you
> anything right now, because like last season you have no reason to believe
> it. My point is that you and Philippe getting together on Gre is good for you
> whether or not there is an RT. And if I know that there is cooperation there,
> then I at least have the option to aid it.
You should assume cooperation there.
> >> Is there some history there, or did you
> >> both just hit it off really badly in early negotiations?
> >
> > The latter.
>
> Wow. That's an amazing amount of animosity to create in just pre-01 talks.
> I'll be intersted to see what the story is in the press.
The short form is that his opening style hit me all wrong, especially
considering the position I was playing and he defended well.
> >> At this point I'm really not sure what I'm going to do next -- it's too
> early
> >> in the turn (you can see why I envy your FtF skills).
> >
> > Please tell me you are kidding....
> >
> > Berlin works every day.
>
> Well, yes. But that doesn't answer the question of HOW to take it. So maybe
> I'm misunderstanding your question. I mean "try to hold my gains and make
> sure EF keep fighting" is also what I was thinking, but that doesn't make it
> obvious to me how I would go about it, or who if anyone should be stabbed to
> get there.
Who could take MUN or BUD from you?
SER will assuredly support BUD, and there are 2 friendly units on Munich.
Germany and France will never work together.
SIL - BER supported by Baltic
> > Russia and has this positioning*.
>
> I do appreciate this. For me, the value of playing in this game is the
> feedback I can get from people critiquing my play, not so much what other
> people are going to "learn from me" by observing me. Almost like a
> retroactive "teachme" game.
No problem....
And the one thing you keep mentioning is dead on true.
My FtF experience lets me look at the board and make an assesment in about
20 seconds.
Andy
Message from Germany to Russia
> Ber-Bal-Den
> Hol-Kie (Mun S)
I assume you mean ruh - kie.
> I have no idea what France is up to, but even if he taps Mun, there's
still a
good chance that you'll end up in Kie and Den. The question I haven't looked
at myself is whether that's good position for going forward. What's your
take?>
I am not sure BER - DEN would work. I think BER - KIE would. It all sounds
very fancy. Ben may use three units to take HOL but he only needs two. ENG
can cut BEL support whilst KIE and HEL take HOL. NTH could then cover DEN.
The NTH is not threatend so he has nothing to lose by mocing NTH to DEN,
there is only one unit (yours) on it. With a build he just builds a new
fleet. He then has TWO on BAL.
I believe BER - KIE supported by BAL and MUN has the best chance of working.
Even if England takes HOL (which he can only do from KIE to be sure then I
slip into KIE and you slip into BER. England gets no build. You have three.
I dont mind surviving as one unit, it will give me reason to diplome and
vent my thoughts.
As I said I prefer someone to solo than several to share a draw if I am not
in it. You can destroy me at your leasure.
I would like to see england denied a build. France wont PROD at MUN or RUH.
I have told him I will be supporting HOL. Anyway he needs BUR - PAR.
My moves are in, ber - kie ruh s hol. If BER - DEN had any chance then I
would have gone for it just for the show.
Tony
Message from Russia to Austria
> Just so we're clear, you'r ok with getting Ser instead of Bud?
Well, I'll be as explicit as I can in response. I honestly would prefer to
have Ser instead of Bud, because I think it would piss you off less. What is
that IA move -- the Blue something Lepanto, where Italy moves Ven-Tri-Ser and
continue to cooperate? That's what I'd like to do here.
However, to expose all of my selfishness and paranoia, Bud-Ser is a much more
dangerous move for me for all sorts of obvious reasons (tell me if they are
not obvious, I'm not trying to be cryptic). From a security point of view I
would *much* prefer to have Bud support you to Ser and then just have it as a
fait accompli that you are going to retake Bud next season There is
absolutely nothing I can do to stop you, and if I attacked Jason (directly or
by supporting you) I don't see that your army would be in any danger. You
don't think he'd accept my support of Bul-Ser right after I helped you
disband his army in Ser, do you?
So my strong request and large preference is that I support you to Ser, and
hand over Bud next season. I know it represents me taking advantage of your
moves, but it DOES allow us to work together, and allows us both some
assurance. Yes I could stab you and not support, but frankly, I don't need to
lie to you to do that. With RT forces, there's too few units to allow you to
take Bud back if Ser supports it, so Tri-Ser makes sense to try to cut
support for Gre in any case.
If we did this and you end up in Gre, you would be able to build in Tri, and
my army Bud can move out and help you (because again, resistance would be
futile). This is essentially the plan I argued for last season: I move
forward to help you bring pressure, but you get the gains in the Balkans over
both Andy and Jason. I just want to see some forward progress come out of the
AR cooperation.
Finally, as to Andy: I think you can cooperate with him in Fall. He claims
that at this point he will not attack you until he can be sure that RT is not
going to roll him over. I believe that will not attack you this Fall, because
that helps my position too much. I also believe that he will cooperate with
you against Turkey this Fall (though you two will have to work out who moves
and who supports if you try to take Gre).
Now I will be completely honest: his logic for asking me to attack Turkey is
to make him free to attack you (well, you AND Turkey). So my guess is he
gives you a free pass this season, then when he sees you and I attack Turkey,
he will probably think that he "controlled" us both and that he'll be able to
manipulate us into attacking each other next year. So I think we could take
Ser and still be in a position to take Andy by surprise next season.
I'm sure this is waaay too long, but I'm trying to be clear that what I am
arguing for now is completely consistent with what I was trying to negotiate
(and failed to acheive) in Spring: that we both press south, and keep Andy
stunted or get you centers from him as we cooperate against Jason. Even the
move to Bud is consistent with the arguments I made -- even though it was
definitely not pro-Austria -- given your stated intent to support Turkey for
show in Fall. I am not changing my desires on you, I am just trying to keep
things moving in the direction I've been arguing for all along.
Back to the original question of would I accept Ser instead of Bud? Well, the
move makes me much more nervous than giving you Bud, so I'd be much more
enthusiastic to support you there. Obviously, I'd rather convince you that it
makes more sense for you to take Ser (which I think is true). But if it comes
out that you are only willing to cooperate if I take Ser, then I'm not going
to try to force your hand because I just don't have the leverage. But you can
count on more messages trying to convince you that you taking Ser is the
right way to go if that happens.
--- Eric
Message from England to France
Erik -
What I am envisioning is that we arrange a dance wherein I capture HOL and BEL but IRI held harmlessly at bay - a bounce in MAO, I guess - in order that I can build in the winter the necessary units for going north. There is not a satisfactory move set for me right now to go north; by the time I arrived the northern Russian fleets would be well constructed and battle-ready. If on the other hand I could *build* a F EDI, that would be a big help.
So my thinking is, set up the fall to swap HOL and BEL to me, but otherwise not advance my position further into yours. This should withstand the loss of KIE, if that happens, so I could still build a F EDI. Meanwhile the loss to you would be those armies, which are not efficiently placed for further advancement anyway, trapped as they are behind my F KIE, etc.
It is just an idea, but I think it's a good one.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from Russia to Russia
[For later consumption]
> Who could take MUN or BUD from you?
Well, if I try to take Ber, you and France could. I expect that you see this,
but just in case I'm not replying to you directly.
> And the one thing you keep mentioning is dead on true.
>
> My FtF experience lets me look at the board and make an assesment in
> about 20 seconds.
My assessment is colored so much by diplomatic "threat levels" that I have
difficulty making the board reads. In no-press (and I've only played chaos)
it's a little easier, but if full press I can't assess the board until I know
things like: Will Turkey be willing to take Rum without support, allowing
Rum-Bul, Ser-Arm? That affects how I view the threat from AI. Will Germany be
pissed that I didn't support him to Kie? That affects whether I treat Ruh as
hostile, friendly or neutral. Same question for France and Bur. How does
Philippe react to Bud? Once I start to get a read on that, then I can get a
sense of what makes sense to me.
But that's just me.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
You are probably right. I appreciate the analysis. Yes, I did mean Ruh-Kie. I
will order in accordance with what you've suggested. Agreed, I could just
take Ber, but I think you are correct, that it's better positionally to have
an extra friendly army there (and I do appreciate your advice, too).
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
>I could just take Ber, but I think you are correct, that it's better
positionally to have
an extra friendly army there (and I do appreciate your advice, too).<
Good to hear, where there is life there is hope.
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Ok, I've begun to look at the map.
Good lord, you lucked right into MUN, didn't you.
The first thing I notice when I look at the map is, REF, working together,
could convoy your A NWY to NAF.
The second thing is, concerning your proposal for MUN - KIE. Let us listen
to Tony's threats/lies & try to pick out the truth. It's a tricky
situation, and I'd be loathe to look back on it and say, you shot an
innocent English dot when you were aiming at the evil German dot.
Ben
Message from France to England
>
> It is just an idea, but I think it's a good one.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ben
Frankly, I don't like it. I realize I'm not in a position to negotiate
much, but while I'm willing to concede Holland, I'd really rather not lose
two centers. That's going to put me in an exceptionally weak position
going forward while you're hanging off my coast with a huge Armada. I will
not be in a position to anything other than watch over my shoulder and
prepare to defend against your attack. Given that, it still doesn't make
any sense for me to do anything but fight you tooth and nail, and that's
going to give the Russian a big advantage.
What I think really makes more sense is for me to try to push through Kiel
/ Munich / Ruhr and try to get in a position where I can threaten Russian
holdings in Austria / Warsaw, while at the same time keeping a fleet or
two down south to both hold the Italian in check and perhaps give him
assistance against Turkey. Despite my sudden move toward him, he and I are
actually talking a lot more than we used to, and I don't think this is out
of the question.
Look, it's becoming clear that Russia is in a fantastic position right now,
and he's going to start having solo opportunities if we don't start doing
something about it now. But, all efforts to stop the leader aside, I still
have to do what I can to keep my own position strong, and losing both Hol
and Bel doesn't really make me feel like I'm doing that. You're not going
to lose Kiel this turn, so taking Holland will still give you that build
in Edi.
Erik
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Can you offer support for BUR - MUN?
Ben
Message from England to England
I am finding it very difficult to negotiate with Erik. This will be the
second movement phase in a row in which I presented a plan favorable to an
EF, which he shoots down because as far as I can tell, he is counting dots.
I am offering to go to war with another power and vacate ENG, while he loses
two units that weren't doing anything but defending each other anyway.
I will rummage through my trick bag and try to find a voice that he listens
to, though I'm running out of options.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
You present a bunch of things I want to think about & respond to, but I
don't have time right now. Let me just ask, what makes you think I won't
lose KIE?
I'll write more later.
Ben
Message from Observer to Observer
When Eric said he was looking forward to our analysis I realized I
should really write something from time to time. I'm a bit new to
the game but hopefully it will help getting the discussion back on
track. I'm doing an okay job at keeping up with the press.
It amazes me how Russia has such a free ride in the east. Probably
Turkey (and Italy) can be 'blamed for that. Last year, as another
commentator has already pointed out, Turkey had some excellent
arguments to let Italy have him Greece, but then suddenly said he
was prepared to wait until 1904 if Italy wouldn't use the resulting
build for a fleet. Andy proceeds to stab Jason, and Jason says that
a 6-4 I/T is a 'recipe for disaster' and Andy concedes him the
point. The final result: I/T relations are soured, Turkey builds
another fleet and Russia is the only benefactor. Of course (while I
like his style) Andy's one-liners may not be incredibly effective,
but Jason could've done everyone on the board a favour by just
negotiating his way into Greece.
Austria and Turkey seem to have the idea that Russia is their best
friend (I may be exagerrating a bit here but hey). Jason is putting
himself more and more in a position in which he is dependant on
Russia. As Andy says: he doesn't believe Russia because he thinks
Eric has no reason to work with him. If R/T start fighting Italy can
only help Russia and is probably willing to do so as it's his only
choice in the east and Russia will be sincere in his offers.
Philippe may not trust Russia but he has no alternative but to do as
as Bud can easily be held.. I must really commend Eric on how he has
achieved his position in the east, largely by convincing Jason to
come and stay at his side. Ever since spring of 1902, Jason has
tagged along with him, barely making suggestions himself and mostly
listening to Russia's. And if he continues to do
so he will soon find himself banging his head against an Italian
brick wall while Russia is making his gains in the north. The
opportunities to do something against Russia are becoming smaller
and smaller for Turkey, as Eric can easily plug the holes in his
defences with the large number of builds he will receive.
The situation in the north is not less interesting. I may have
overlooked something, but Ben told Eric he would build A Lpl, F Edi
in W1903A to help him defend the Isle and give him more leverage
against Russia if they would be able to put their differences aside.
A Lpl is inferior to F Lpl offensively when it comes to a war
against France, but it would really go a long way towards achieving
F/E peace (not extemely unlikely as Erik was left hanging out to dry
by Russia) and pressuring Russia long-term. Instead he builds a
fleet in Liverpool without telling France in advance (a bad decision
if you ask me - leverage against R definately was something worth
fighting for, and that at no cost defensively).. In the spring they
try to restore the peace (after France had shown his desire to do so
by building F Mar) and they end up arguing over Hol. From my
(hopefully) unbiased perspective, Ben's point regarding Hol wasn't
completely unreasonable. If he had moved against Russia full-force
he would have gained only Nwy in 1904 and with France gaining Mun
that would put E/F at 6/8. A nice solution would have been to
transer Hol to England in 1904 and give it back to France if it
would become apparant his Italian campaign wasn't going well.
However, a combination of Erik's stubbornness, his lack of
communication and Eric's persuasiveness made Ben push against France
full-force.
As a result of the course of action in both of the theatres Russia's
position is extremely good, and for a large part his diplomatic
skills achieved that, by playing nice with everyone, being
persuasive and getting E/F and I/T at war. The other part was caused
by I/T and E/F's inability to get their acts
together. I must say Andy's statement that Eric can already start
planning his solo is a bit overboard, but E/F in particular have to
realize Russia IS walking away with the game. They missed an
excellent opportunity in S04 to hit
Russia hard in Scandinavia - now they are in a lot worse position to
do something. This will be one of their last moments though. If E/F
dig in against each other, it might be too late to gain ground
against Russia for a very long time. If the game continues like this
I predict Russia will make his gains in Germany, shore up his
northen defense and concentrate on the south, where he has the
luxury to do anything he wants to (look how effective stabbing
Turkey would be right now). Ben isn't doing much to prevent that by
offering France to take both Hol and Bel and then work towards
Russia - his approach has a very big chance of invoking some kind
of 'if that's my alternative, I'd rather do battle' kind of
response. Leaving Bel in French hands in exchange for cooperation
would be an effective and perhaps necessary gesture to accomplish a
turnaround.
If I were Eric right now I think I'd stab Turkey. Keeping the peace
with him probably requires ceding Rum while you have a good
opportunity right now (supporting Austria to Ser, moving to Arm and
building a second southern fleet) which will probably not arise
again for a while. Italy and Austria will likely join at his side
but will probably not be able to form a decent opposition once
Turkey has been reduced in size significantly. If I could somehow
convince Turkey to let me keep Rum for another year I'd wait a few
seasons to get I and T more entangled with each other.
I think it's safe to say this game is very interesting and I'll try
to make some more comments from time to time (that is, if you don't
find this too messy)
- Thomas
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> Can you offer support for BUR - MUN?
No.
Not until I dont have french fleets in the Med.
But secondarily...not until I know what Tyrolia needs to do in the east.
But likely....NO
Message from Russia to Germany
Here's another question for you:
What do you think about the idea of me NOT taking Ber? That is, Ruh S Hol,
Ber-Kie, and maybe Sil S Mun or somesuch. That leaves you with two armies.
I'd ask you to push west with them (which would probably mean eventually
giving up Kie in exchange for Hol/Bel or somesuch), but A Ruh is much more
advanced than A Ber is which is good for me. And for you it's keeping two
units instead of being reduced to one. In Spring we could go with something
like Mun S Ruh-Bur. The only question for me is how likely you think it is
that Ruh is going to be disbanded. If you've truly offered to support Hol for
Erik, I can see that he might not go that route, but I'd like your take on
how likely that is.
Let me know what you think; you seem to have a good feel for the situation
there.
Have a good weekend.
--- Eric
Message from England to France
Erik -
Can you order BUR s BEL? If so then I can just order the attacks on HOL
and BEL, and to everyone else it will look like we're at war, but secretly
you'd just be giving me HOL and keeping BEL.
Will that work?
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
What I was asking (as I recall) was if you would *offer* the support. I
didn't ask if you would give it.
But the answer is the same, I suspect.
Ben
Message from Turkey to Russia
Hey Eric,
Glad to see the turn went well. The Rum plan sounds good. I'll probably
stay put in Aeg to cover the eastern Med - Andy's got his hands full in
the west.
jason
Message from Turkey to Austria
Bud for Tri? That sounds like a decent deal, but I'm a little skeptical.
Eric mentioned that you said something to him about me attacking Rum. If
you want to retain your homeland, spilling the beans like that won't help.
If I help you this turn, will you keep it to yourself?
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Don't worry - I've got Rum coming to me in the Fall (condition of my
helping him into Bud).
Good luck over there, yourself. With France expanding into the Med, you
could use some centers as well.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Andy,
I have and will be taking Rum this turn. Don't worry, I don't him
getting 3 builds, either.
I understand why you need Greece to hold off France, and frankly I don't
want France getting too far into the Med. I'll certainly take your plan
under advisement. Austria is wanting to get Bud back also, so perhaps we
can work something out in that area as well.
jason
Message from Germany to Russia
Well I explained to France why I cut support from HOL. I pointed out that it
wasnt anti-french. I explained that I thought that he and Ben were working
together and that he would support KIE. The moves obviously proved they
wernt working together.
I find it very unlikely that he will attack RUH. Ben is attacking him, even
if he doent believe that I will support him he surely will be hoping I do. I
just dont want Ben getting a build. This can be achievd in two way, I
support HOL (but he could still take HOL as BEL can be cut. Secondly I
ensure I take KIE, if Ben does get HOL then he loses KIE.
In other wors I could use RUH to support BER - KIE. This along with BAL
support will ensure I get KIE.
If you and Ben are on one line then you could convince him to go for HOL
using KIE and support from NTH and HEL.
This still allows me to take KIE and you could push BAL - DEN. But how did
he explain not accepting your support to KIE last turn? Let me know if I
have to support BER - KIE or help support HOL.
You not taking BER and leaving me with two units obviously has my
preference. My units could indeed be pushed forward and keep momentum going.
I can only once again wait and see. What do you think the chances are of Ben
ordering HEL s KIE, KIE s NTH - HOL?
Using BAL to support BER - KIE I believe gives us the best chance of
success.
Tony
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Don't worry - I've got Rum coming to me in the Fall (condition of my
> helping him into Bud).
I'll be curious to see whether you take with the army or the fleet. You
will be in an interesting position, if you capture with an army.
> Good luck over there, yourself. With France expanding into
> the Med, you could use some centers as well.
Thanks. I am particularly interested in what Andy is up to, if you've heard
anything interesting. He's asking me to attack France ("cut out his heart")
but of course that's what he'd say to *me* - I wonder what he's telling
others.
Ben
Message from Russia to Germany
> I find it very unlikely that he will attack RUH.
I tend to agree, but wanted your opinion.
> Ben is attacking him, even
> if he doent believe that I will support him he surely will be hoping I do.
> I just dont want Ben getting a build.
Understood.
> This can be achievd in two way, I
> support HOL (but he could still take HOL as BEL can be cut. Secondly I
> ensure I take KIE, if Ben does get HOL then he loses KIE.
I think this will be the outcome regardless. Given his Spring moves, he kind
of has to trust me for Fall, doesn't he? I wouldn't be surprised if he
requests Bal-Kie or Mun-Kie to try to hold Kie while gaining Hol.
The real question for us is whether it is better to have Bel/Hol both be
French, or be split F/E. If you are looking for me to do well, then I think
the latter is more important. It really depends on whether you want to punish
England or both of them.
> In other wors I could use RUH to support BER - KIE. This along with BAL
> support will ensure I get KIE.
This makes sense. Though I haven't heard from Erik yet, so can't comment on
what I'm hearing he'll do. But if we want Bel/Hol split, then obviuosly you
should not support Hol. We'll see.
> If you and Ben are on one line then you could convince him to go for HOL
> using KIE and support from NTH and HEL.
I already have suggested it. I just don't know if it's coming.
> This still allows me to take KIE and you could push BAL - DEN.
I thought about this. It's certainly safer than Ber-Bal-Den.
> But how did he explain not accepting your support to KIE last turn?
He didn't need to. I offered to support it because anything that got him out
of Den was a good thing. When the move went late he waffled (got very
uncertain) about what he was going to do, and I told him the support was
ordered and he could take it or not. Frankly, since I would have been happy
to see you take Kie, I didn't even ask why he chose that.
> Let me know if I have to support BER - KIE or help support HOL.
I'm leaning towards the former, but again, I want to know what you think is
better for us in Bel/Hol.
> You not taking BER and leaving me with two units obviously has my
> preference. My units could indeed be pushed forward and keep momentum
> going.
Not surprising! No promises at this point, but if I feel like I can leave you
Ber (meaning that I don't need the build myself) then I will most certainly
do it. I have no desire to see you lose units at this point.
> I can only once again wait and see. What do you think the chances are of
> Ben ordering HEL s KIE, KIE s NTH - HOL?
I would be stunned, especially because I told him right after the moves that
I expected you to move Ber-Kie again.
> Using BAL to support BER - KIE I believe gives us the best chance of
> success.
Probably. But I could also order Mun S Ber-Kie too. Isn't Ruh/Mun S Ber-Kie
pretty solid too? This of course assumes that Ben successfully takes Hol.
Last thing I want to do is retreat him to Bal! Ben goes down one, you would
stay even (Ber/Kie), and I'm in position to cut support for Hol in the
Spring, allowing Ruh-Hol with support.
Anyway, let me know what you think.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
Hi Erik, yes I keep forgetting about MUN. It cant move so if it does support
ber - kie along with ruh support then that is enough. That still leaves you
free to push at DEN!
You are guranteed two builds no matter what (MUN/BUD) so I am hoping you
leave me BER.
Anyway my moves are BER - KIE, RUH S BER - KIE. If MUN supports the efoort
then all should go well.
It will be interesting to see if BAL - DEN works. I hope you dont turn
paranoid and think that I will go for MUN using both units. I gurantee you I
am not. Ben is the one to suffer, rather a solo than a draw without me.
To bad you didnt go with me last time as it would have been devestating,
lets make up for it this turn.
tony
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
I've got to run, but wanted to drop a line. Tony is telling me (and Erik, in
joint press) that he's going to move Ber-Kie and support Hol with Ruh. If
that's the case, I should probably move Mun-Ruh to cut support and probably
move Bal-Kie to bounce Ber-Kie (this is assuming he's telling me the truth --
let me know if you don't want this). It also means that you'll need to move
Kie-Hol, Hel S Kie-Hol and Nth will have to support Hol or tap Bel if I've
got the right map in my head.
I cannot imagine that he will not tap Kie -- but even if he chooses Ruh S
Ber-Kie or Ber S Ruh-Kie I think my suggestions would still work. The only
thing that could go wrong is if he holds in Ber.
The other downside is that given that I'd be using Bal and Mun on your
behalf, I won't be able to get rid of Ber yet. But I think that only means
that next year I'll have to use at least one of Mun or Bal on that task
(while also keeping Kie yours). But with Hol gone that should be quite
doable.
Let me know what you think, but I'll be away, so don't expect an immediate
response.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Quick response -
Thanks for the information about the group press. I don't doubt it's what he'll do & your proposal looks a suitable response.
Good luck & have a good trip(?). We'll write more on your return.
Ben
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
Awesome. I'm hoping you'll also order support for Bud (Ser S Bud). I'm trying
to convince Philippe not to attack me because it's useless (since Ser can
support Bud), but I'd feel a lot more comfortable knowing that I'm guaranteed
to hold it through the Fall!
And on an another comment of yours -- you shouldn't be too surprised that I
had heard something from Philippe about your plans. Remember that the year
before he had also told me about supporting you to Ser. (And the year before
that, it sounded like he told Andy about your move to Gre, right?) Still, our
taking Bud may have changed how willing he is to talk -- for the moment at
least.
I'll be away for the weekend, so don't be surprised that you don't hear
anything more from me until late Sunday or Monday.
--- Eric
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Will you be in a position to press France in the south, after F1904B, best guess? Keep me apprised.
Ben
Message from Russia to all
The holiday season is upon me in about half an hour when I will be leaving
for this year's family get togethers.
The conditions in the gathering place are so primitive that neither a TiVo
nor a network connection is available, so unless someone wants to call me on
the phone (and there is no answering machine there either!) I will not be
available for negotiations until I return late Sunday or early Monday.
Happy (early) holidays everyone!
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Germany
> It will be interesting to see if BAL - DEN works. I hope you dont turn
> paranoid and think that I will go for MUN using both units.
I won't. First off, if EFG team up against me, I'm gone. Second, if Sil does
not tap Ber (which is still my leaning) it will probably support Mun anyway.
Not attacking Ben was not because I was worried about you. It just didn't
make sense to get him angry (by supporting you) when he was moving away from
me anyway.
--- Eric
Message from England to England
With Turkey taking RUM and Russia conceding BER I am sufficiently comforted that I can go on after Erik. This decision, along with others I've made recently, was an open question at the beginning of the phase, but the saber-rattling and dot-counting coming from Erik has pushed me toward the riskier course of attacking France.
Erik's proposal is a slow death for England - not growing quickly enough to be able to generate a southern stab; squished eventually between FR.
Eric's proposal is of course for a Russian solo, and he and I will have to race to the stab of the other. He will have opportunities for faster growth, but I can deploy to the theater faster and in greater force. Attacking France now & stabbing Russia soon is the risky course for me, as if I fail I will surely be eliminated.
Ben
Message from Germany to Russia
>>Second, if Sil does not tap Ber (which is still my leaning) it will
probably support Mun anyway>>
Then have it support MUN, else you will end up in BE if I make it to KIE.
Message from England to France
Erik -
Ok, to recap the last few presses I sent you:
I am currently proposing that you support BEL so I can attack BEL and HOL
but take only HOL, thus preserving the appearance of war between us. The
goal with this illusion is to secure favorable builds from Russia if
possible.
Also you mentioned that you did not think I would lose KIE and I asked you
whether you'd heard anything on that point.
I know you are busy - get back to me when you can.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> Will you be in a position to press France in the south, after F1904B,
best guess? Keep me apprised.
If need be...yeah.
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> What I was asking (as I recall) was if you would *offer* the support. I
> didn't ask if you would give it.
I could offer it, but it should certainly make Erik suspicious as he
should never come to expect it after he has just attacked me
I could do it, but it will likely make him more suspicious than need be.
Message from Italy to Austria
Philippe,
What are you talks with Turkey consisting of, he just sent me a note as if
he had spoken to you, but wouldnt commit to anything concrete.
What did you tell him about us.
Andy
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason,
> I have and will be taking Rum this turn. Don't worry, I don't him
> getting 3 builds, either.
Good.
> I understand why you need Greece to hold off France, and frankly I don't
> want France getting too far into the Med. I'll certainly take your plan
> under advisement. Austria is wanting to get Bud back also, so perhaps we
> can work something out in that area as well.
Well....to force Rum, you need all of your units (SER, BUL and BLA),
If I know that I am not disbanding, I am prepared to move west in force as
long as you and I can leave the ION empty.
Is that fair?
Andy
Message from Turkey to England
Agreed on A Rum - it would give me a nice advantage.
I've talked with Andy a little - he'll head west against France if I
give him Gre back. I'm leaning toward doing that, since I can't afford
France breaking through and taking me out. I'd say work with him on
France, since he's likely to back you up.
jason
Message from Turkey to Italy
Russia is supposed to be giving me Rum voluntarialy, but we'll see. He
might hose me over it.
I'll go along with the Gre plan - I'll back out and let you keep the
center to avoid the disband.
jason
Message from Turkey to Russia
Sounds good, then. No change over here.
jason
Message from France to England
> Erik -
> Ok, to recap the last few presses I sent you:
> I am currently proposing that you support BEL so I can attack BEL and
> HOL
> but take only HOL, thus preserving the appearance of war between us.
> The
> goal with this illusion is to secure favorable builds from Russia if
> possible.
That's acceptable. The question is, how can I best contribute to a defense
against Russia? Is it worthwhile to plow through Munich, or should I just
keep heading toward the Med?
>
> Also you mentioned that you did not think I would lose KIE and I asked
> you
> whether you'd heard anything on that point.
>
> I know you are busy - get back to me when you can.
>
Instead of taking Holland, you could take Belgium, leaving Holland to
*support* Kiel. If Hel supports Kiel also, you can keep it no matter what.
I think I can get German support into Munich, purely out of spite, and
that keeps me at the same center count while you take Bel from Eng. It
sounds a little crazy, but it may make sense.
What do you think?
I know time is short, but I'll be around all day tomorrow.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
Obviously, I'd be very grateful for assistance into Munich, if that's how
you'd like to go out. I think I may be able to get England off-balance
enough to throw off his offensive, but my main concern is minimizing
Russian growth. I'd really rather not see him solo so quickly.
Will you support Bur - Mun?
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
I've been trying my hardest to get England to back down a bit, but I'm not
sure what he's really going to do. Obviously, I'd be extremely grateful if
you could find a way to get me into Munich and / or put some pressure on
him through Scandanavia.
Meanwhile, down south, what do you think is going to happen? Italy was
hopping mad with me, but if Turkey's going to keep coming at him, that's
not so much a concern.
I'll be around all day tomorrow. Please write when you get a chance.
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Jason:
I need to know what your plans are in the Med. I've got a serious problem
with England here, but if you're still planning on heading West, I'd be
happy to leave some units to help you with Andy. Just give me some kind of
indication so I don't leave a fleet down there in vain -- give my new
situation, I can't fight him alone.
Erik
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Russia is supposed to be giving me Rum voluntarialy, but we'll see. He
> might hose me over it.
It certainly wouldnt surprise me.
>
> I'll go along with the Gre plan - I'll back out and let you keep the
> center to avoid the disband.
May I ask how....I suspect GRE - AEG, AEG - EAS/SMY/CON
btw...thanks, I appreciate it.
take care
Andy
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Agreed on A Rum - it would give me a nice advantage.
You do what the environment will permit - good luck.
> I've talked with Andy a little - he'll head west against France if I
> give him Gre back. I'm leaning toward doing that, since I can't afford
> France breaking through and taking me out. I'd say work with him on
> France, since he's likely to back you up.
This sounds like a good plan for you. It also answers some important
questions for me - you are a good ally and I hope to be able to return the
favor soon - keep me apprised on what you would like to see from me.
Ben
Message from Italy to Austria
Philippe,
What is Jason telling you he is doing?
thanks
Andy
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
Keep the faith - it was comforting to see Andy supporting you in VIE. Try
for BUD, who knows what might happen.
Good luck.
Ben
Message from Turkey to Italy
Right, that's the plan: Gre - Aeg, Aeg - Eas.
That should leave me covered while not interfering with you.
BTW: Just got a note from France. He wants to know if he should head
against England or help me fight you. I'll try to make him split his
forces so the two of you can handle him.
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Sounds good. France is trying to figure out who he should fight, so I'm
trying to keep him busy in both directions.
For now, just gain some ground on France and Russia. I need to take out
Russia at some point in the future or he'll take me. If you and I can
get into good position in the endgame, ET can be quite powerful.
jason
Message from Turkey to France
Thanks for the note.
I probably could use some help in the Med, but obviously I've got my
hands full with AR. I can't promise anything, but I'd hate for him to
stage a breakout in either direction.
jason
Message from Germany to France
Hi Erik, well as I will be exiting then obviously I would prefer someone to
solo. It's better that 6 go dwon with me than that 3 or 4 share in a draw.
I believ Russia will solo. Ben should have moved north last year. Him
attacking you when he could have built a fleet in EDI and LON was his last
chance. You believed in the press I sent else you wouldnt have built fleet
MAR.
Thats why I am willing to support HOL to deny BEN a build. Sorry I cant
support you into MUN.
Message from Austria to Turkey
> Bud for Tri? That sounds like a decent deal, but I'm a little skeptical.
> Eric mentioned that you said something to him about me attacking Rum. If
> you want to retain your homeland, spilling the beans like that won't help.
>
> If I help you this turn, will you keep it to yourself?
What kind of question is this! Seriously, do I look
like someone who can afford to screw people off?
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
Eric,
I haven't had much time, but I can assure you
that I'm not going to try for Ser himself. So,
let's go with my suggestion instead. As for
Andy, I still have to check with him regarding
his fleets movements.
Philippe
Message from Austria to Italy
> What are you talks with Turkey consisting of, he just sent me a note as if
> he had spoken to you, but wouldnt commit to anything concrete.
>
> What did you tell him about us.
All I said was that I was happy to see you didn't
attack me and asked him if he wanted to go for
Tri and let me get Bud back.
I'm still unsure of what he wants to do.
Philippe
Message from Austria to England
> Keep the faith - it was comforting to see Andy supporting you in VIE. Try
> for BUD, who knows what might happen.
Must I understand from this that you are working
with Andy against France and that Russia can wait?
I hope not as this would mean that Russia is free to
do as he please with me
Message from Austria to all
Hi all,
I don't know for the rest of you, but I'm not going to be
available from the december 24 to sometime after
january first because of the holydays, so an extension of
the next dl to january 6 would be appreciated.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in advance,
Philippe
Message from Austria to Russia
> I haven't had much time, but I can assure you
> that I'm not going to try for Ser himself. So,
wrote this too quickly, should read: try for Ser
"myself" instead. Must really be getting tired!
Message from Italy to Austria
> > What are you talks with Turkey consisting of, he just sent me a note as if
> > he had spoken to you, but wouldnt commit to anything concrete.
> >
> > What did you tell him about us.
>
> All I said was that I was happy to see you didn't
> attack me and asked him if he wanted to go for
> Tri and let me get Bud back.
>
> I'm still unsure of what he wants to do.
He tells me that he is going to back out and give me Greece, I dont
neccesarily beleive him.
Do I still have Albania's support to Greece?
And do you want me to go to Trieste with Tyrolia or something
else....basically the units is yours to order.
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
> He tells me that he is going to back out and give me Greece, I dont
> neccesarily beleive him.
>
> Do I still have Albania's support to Greece?
Yes, or anything else you might like me to order for
this fleet by the way.
> And do you want me to go to Trieste with Tyrolia or something
> else....basically the units is yours to order.
For the moment yes as I'm still hoping that Jason
will go for it; but just in case it appear not to be
likely, it would be a good thing to check what
Tony's plans are.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
> > He tells me that he is going to back out and give me Greece, I dont
> > neccesarily beleive him.
> >
> > Do I still have Albania's support to Greece?
>
> Yes, or anything else you might like me to order for
> this fleet by the way.
Thank you
>
> > And do you want me to go to Trieste with Tyrolia or something
> > else....basically the units is yours to order.
>
> For the moment yes as I'm still hoping that Jason
> will go for it; but just in case it appear not to be
> likely, it would be a good thing to check what
> Tony's plans are.
I will put in my orders as this, and set wait while I wait for Tony to
return the note I will send him.
Andy
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
Is there anything you might want Tyrolia to do.
Other than support France to dots.
Andy
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
>> Keep the faith - it was comforting to see Andy supporting you in VIE. Try
>> for BUD, who knows what might happen.
>
> Must I understand from this that you are working
> with Andy against France and that Russia can wait?
> I hope not as this would mean that Russia is free to
> do as he please with me
I'm not sure how you draw this conclusion - I was trying to send alittle holiday cheer & not meaning to say much. I just hadn't heard from you in awhile.
Andy is as usual vague about his intentions and I have no plans with him right now.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Is there anything you might want Tyrolia to do.
> Other than support France to dots.
Heh. What I wanted was for BUR not to be supporting BEL. But if you don't think there'd be a point in offering the support - in other words, if you don't think he'd take the bait - don't bother.
If Turkey is taking RUM with an army and you think TR war is on the horizon - go to PIE. Defend yourself, for god's sake. Even if TR is not splitting up, if you are not prepared to go against Russia, go to PIE.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> I'm not sure how you draw this conclusion - I was trying to send alittle holiday cheer & not meaning to say much. I just hadn't
heard from you in awhile.
>
> Andy is as usual vague about his intentions and I have no plans with him right now.
Sorry, but I was disappointed not to see you move
against Russia last turn. I suppose that you couldn't
be sure of France at the time, but with your hello
that didn't mention anything regarding a move on
Russia, I got worried.
Regards,
Philippe
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
Thanks for the clarification. Your first message had me mystified. :)
Can you explain why you moving to Ser is unacceptable? I understand that you
don't want to lose a home SC, and I can believe that you don't really trust
me to give it back, (though as I've noted, I'm not going to have a choice in
that), but I'd like to understand your thinking.
I've got to run to a meeting, so I'm going to keep this message short. I'll
be back this afternoon.
--- Eric
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Sounds good. France is trying to figure out who he should
> fight, so I'm
> trying to keep him busy in both directions.
Jason, if he goes against *Italy* then Andy will be pinned down and fully
occupied while you deal with A/R.
If on the other hand Erik is trying to fight on two fronts then (a) Andy
will be stronger and (b) I will be weaker, which I would not have thought
would be your goal. This is important because if F MAO goes *south* this
phase then things will be very good for us, as you will have access to
Andy's flank and I will have access to Erik's.
Please consider advising Erik accordingly.
> For now, just gain some ground on France and Russia. I need
> to take out
> Russia at some point in the future or he'll take me. If you and I can
> get into good position in the endgame, ET can be quite powerful.
I agree. My only 2WD was an ET.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> > Ok, to recap the last few presses I sent you:
> > I am currently proposing that you support BEL so I can
> attack BEL and
> > HOL
> > but take only HOL, thus preserving the appearance of war between us.
> > The
> > goal with this illusion is to secure favorable builds from Russia if
> > possible.
>
> That's acceptable. The question is, how can I best contribute
> to a defense
> against Russia? Is it worthwhile to plow through Munich, or
> should I just
> keep heading toward the Med?
Definitely MUN will have to be French, but I do not see that happening in
the coming year. Perhaps you can use private channels to prop up Germany
for a time? As to the Med, I certainly do not need navel assistance (sp?
;-)). So I would encourage you to maximize the value of your fleets by
pressing Andy. TUN once captured is easily held and you will hopefully have
a good chance at the Italian home centers, if Andy continues to press East.
If not, you will have to grind them out, but you should still be able to
squeeze him with assistance from Jason (until he's stabbed by Russia).
> > Also you mentioned that you did not think I would lose KIE
> and I asked
> > you
> > whether you'd heard anything on that point.
> >
> > I know you are busy - get back to me when you can.
> >
>
> Instead of taking Holland, you could take Belgium, leaving Holland to
> *support* Kiel. If Hel supports Kiel also, you can keep it no
> matter what.
> I think I can get German support into Munich, purely out of spite, and
> that keeps me at the same center count while you take Bel from Eng. It
> sounds a little crazy, but it may make sense.
>
> What do you think?
It looks consistent with my plan - I will proceed as we've discussed.
> I know time is short, but I'll be around all day tomorrow.
What would you like me to do with IRI?
Ben
Message from Russia to Turkey
Jason,
I told you I've been trying to convince Philippe not to attack Bud. One of
the possibilities he raised is trying to attack Ser. One of the things he's
talked to me about is using Bud to attack Ser. If I remember right, you said
you are not going to be moving F Aeg. If that's true, what do you think about
you ordering Aeg S Gre and Bul S Ser? If you do that, I can "attack" Ser and
we'll know it won't work. We could also say that me moving out of Rum was to
let me get A Sev there (Sev-Ukr-Rum) and you taking it is a stab. That would
make it look like we were fighting, which might make it easier for one or the
other of us to get information about how AI are going to move.
I can't tell if this is too complicated or not, but I wanted to get your take
on. When Austria raised the idea, I thought maybe it was a chance to keep our
moves from getting him too pissed off at us because of the Spring moves. :)
And you have also ordered Ser S Bud, right? (I saw all of your messages, but
they say "sounds good", but it's not 100% clear what you were saying sounds
good!
Let me know. I won't order anything "nasty" with Bud until/unless I hear from
you that it's okay.
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> Can you explain why you moving to Ser is unacceptable? I understand that you
> don't want to lose a home SC, and I can believe that you don't really trust
> me to give it back, (though as I've noted, I'm not going to have a choice in
> that), but I'd like to understand your thinking.
My concern are even more short term. Tri-Ser exposed
me too much to try it after having been dislodged from
Bud.
Message from France to England
> What would you like me to do with IRI?
>
> Ben
>
I'd prefer to see it head north, and if I'm supporting you anyway, there's
no need to keep the "we're fighting" ruse going. You've got more than
enough fleet power to dominate Scandanavia regardless of the Russians
building F StP (Nc), and he'll probably do that anyway. I would encourage
you to send as much firepower his way as possible.
You're right, Munich probably won't be mine, but I think I can handle the
loss of Belgium alone this turn, and with luck, I'll be able to gain
enough to cover that and Holland in the next year.
So I'll support Kiel from Holland and ensure that you keep it, and you'll
take Bel from Eng (and head north from Iri?), thereby easing my anxiety.
Does that sound like a deal?
Jason is definitely worried about a Russian stab (and for obvious good
reasons). We should encourage that paranoia -- even though it means less
help against Andy, it's better for all of us in the long run to see RT
cooperation come to an end.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> > What would you like me to do with IRI?
> I'd prefer to see it head north, and if I'm supporting you
> anyway, there's
> no need to keep the "we're fighting" ruse going.
Doh! You are correct, of course.
> So I'll support Kiel from Holland and ensure that you keep
> it, and you'll
> take Bel from Eng (and head north from Iri?), thereby easing
> my anxiety.
> Does that sound like a deal?
I can commit to heading north from IRI if you can commit to heading south
from MAO, which I imagine you were doing anyway.
> Jason is definitely worried about a Russian stab (and for obvious good
> reasons). We should encourage that paranoia -- even though it
> means less
> help against Andy, it's better for all of us in the long run to see RT
> cooperation come to an end.
Absolutely. The worse the chaos in the East, the better for us. Also
Turkish pressure against Eric would be a good thing.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Welcome back.
Let me know if you have a sense of the destination of F MAO.
Ben
Message from Russia to Austria
Philippe,
I really do understand your concern, since it's basically the same as mine.
If you move, then your unit is in danger from RI or RT cooperation. If I
move, then Tri and Vie can coordinate to oust me. And you justly feel that
since I was the one that violated your trust, I should be the one to take the
risk. The thing that makes it difficult for me is that if we don't come to
any agreement, then in theory I do as well as if we do (it's one center for
me either way). That's why I was hoping you'd be willing to risk being the
mover, and why I'm being unusually pushy about asking for it.
Again, my thinking with Tri-Ser is that next year you would be able to press
to Bul and possibly Gre. But let's assume that I am the mover. If I move
Bud-Ser in Fall, how would you want to cooperate next year? With me in Ser
and you in Tri/Vie, how would we press forward?
As I've said several times now, and you are probably sick of hearing by now,
I really want to cooperate with you. I just want to be sure that what we're
doing is actually leading to cooperation that can be ongoing.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
MAO? There's a fleet in MAO? :)
I've just heard very briefly from France, and it's all been about whether or
not I can loan him Mun. If I hear anything I will let you know, but I'm a
little worried about asking about it straight out -- it might seem a little
suspicious.
BTW, the football gods seem to have smiled on you this weekend. Your team is
again in control of their own destiny, which is always a good thing.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
> I've been trying my hardest to get England to back down a bit, but I'm not
> sure what he's really going to do.
Well, clearly he's telling me that he's going after you, since what else
would he say. My guess, though, is that he's telling the truth, since his
moves last season more or less require him to follow through with the attack
for at least one more season.
> Obviously, I'd be extremely grateful if
> you could find a way to get me into Munich and / or put some pressure on
> him through Scandanavia.
Well, in talking with Tony I'm a little more worried about the former
(getting you into Mun). What's he telling you he's going to be doing with
Ruh? I know he said in shared press that he was supporting Hol, but I'm
wondering if maybe he's going to try to retake Mun. That would allow England
to expand against you (which is good for him) and would rid him of an army
that you have threatening him. So I'm afraid that even if I try to get you
into Mun that we may just end up helping him (with a 2-2 bounce, he'd hold
the center). However, I should be able to put pressure on Ben in Scandinavia.
If I'dve known he was really going after you, I could have kept A Swe, but I
didn't think I could risk letting a fleet into Nwy with no units covering
StP!
> Meanwhile, down south, what do you think is going to happen? Italy was
> hopping mad with me, but if Turkey's going to keep coming at him, that's
> not so much a concern.
I think that AI are really poorly matched personalities that have trouble
getting along. The cooperation that I've had with Jason are making them
seriously consider cooperation -- which would mean Andy being free to head
west. (Andy has already dropped hints to me that this is his plan.) So
anything you can do with Philippe to get him more nervous about Andy and keep
an AI from forming is going to be good for both of us.
I think this (keeping AI from cooling their differences) is the biggest thing
we can do. I can distract Ben in the north fairly easily, but I can't
distract Andy directly -- I have to do that through Philippe and Jason.
Clearly I've peeved off Philippe, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to
mend that fence. I will try to ensure that Jason keeps pressing Andy. Do you
have any conversations with Jason? Do you have any reason to believe he's
*not* going to press Andy further?
> I'll be around all day tomorrow. Please write when you get a chance.
Sorry it took so long!
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> MAO? There's a fleet in MAO? :)
:-o
> I've just heard very briefly from France, and it's all been
> about whether or
> not I can loan him Mun. If I hear anything I will let you
> know, but I'm a
> little worried about asking about it straight out -- it might
> seem a little suspicious.
I need to know whether you will be loaning him MUN. I am guessing you are
not, but please confirm. I would be pleased to see BUR - MUN, though.
No of course you should not ask him outright.
> BTW, the football gods seem to have smiled on you this
> weekend. Your team is
> again in control of their own destiny, which is always a good thing.
:-) We shot ourselves in the foot a few times this season, most notably
against the fine Raiders of Oakland, in which game we gave up 10 points to
the Raiders on exactly one (1) yard of offense to begin the contest. Peeyu.
But that (a) we should beat the snot out of Cleveland while (b) Cincinnati
loses away against a tough St. Louis team, is hardly a smile from the
football gods, it's just the tail end of the season's schedule playing
pretty much the way we expected. Our schedule wound down easier than
theirs. Big game Sunday night vs. Pittsburgh coming up.
Ben
Message from Russia to England
> I need to know whether you will be loaning him MUN. I am guessing you
> are not, but please confirm. I would be pleased to see BUR - MUN,
> though.
I was thinking that Munich looks nice in grey. It's much truer to it's
original color of black than the French light blue units. So no, I was not
planning on giving up Mun, though seeing France move Bur-Mun is not out of
the question either. If I'm not mistaken you still want me to move Mun-Ruh,
so realistically I cannot guarantee that I'll hold Mun if Tony and Erik team
up, but that seems unlikely. Outside of that, I'd have a hard time actually
giving up Mun to Erik, since I can't help dislodge my own unit in Mun, and
there's really nowhere for that unit to go voluntarily!
And my apologies if I insulted you by indicating that there was some sort of
providence involved with the Ravens beating the Browns. But then again, it is
not clear that any team that loses to Raiders isn't getting some divine
intervention when they win. :)
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> > I need to know whether you will be loaning him MUN. I am guessing you
> > are not, but please confirm. I would be pleased to see BUR - MUN,
> > though.
>
> I was thinking that Munich looks nice in grey. It's much truer to it's
> original color of black than the French light blue units. So no, I was not
> planning on giving up Mun, though seeing France move Bur-Mun is not out of
> the question either. If I'm not mistaken you still want me to move
Mun-Ruh,
> so realistically I cannot guarantee that I'll hold Mun if Tony and Erik
team
> up, but that seems unlikely. Outside of that, I'd have a hard time
actually
> giving up Mun to Erik, since I can't help dislodge my own unit in Mun, and
> there's really nowhere for that unit to go voluntarily!
Ok. This is pretty much what I'd thought.
> And my apologies if I insulted you by indicating that there was some sort
of
> providence involved with the Ravens beating the Browns. But then again,
it is
> not clear that any team that loses to Raiders isn't getting some divine
> intervention when they win. :)
Don't be too modest! I see them giving Green Bay all they can handle! Oh,
nevermind, my mistake. That was Brett Favre. I'd thought it was Rick
Mirer.
Ben
Message from Turkey to Russia
Sorry for not being specific. Ser will support Bud this turn. If you
want to bounce Austria in Ser, that's fine, but Gre needs to move, so
Bul won't be available.
jason
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Follow up on a point I wanted to be clear:
> > the question either. If I'm not mistaken you still want me to move
> Mun-Ruh,
Yes I do.
Good luck.
Ben
Message from England to England
Tough call, how to proceed tactically. My hope is for MAO - BRE. I
considered moving to PIC, but once again am choosing the risky play - for
BEL and HOL both - if it fails and I bounce in MAO then further progress
against France will be difficult.
Ben
Message from Russia to Russia
Well, I'm still unsure what I want to do. Oddly, I while I really do expect
to see an AIT against me, I am a lot less worried about the moves than I have
been the last few turns. Maybe it's the vacation upcoming at work!
As much as I want to move against Turkey, I don't think I can afford to. As I
see it, that would cement a whole-board alliance against me. I can move
against Ben and if Turkey is still strong, it should keep Erik onside,
especially if he accepts that I can't give him Mun. So I think it looks like
actually handing over Rum (Damn! The whole "you can have Rum" story was on
the assumption I'd never actually give it up!) to Jason, and hoping to keep
IT fighting, attacking Ben (sorry Ben! I really don't want to, but with Tony
apparently working for me, I don't see how I can't), and trying to keep Bud
from Philippe. Too bad. I had really hoped to work with Philippe, but what I
said to him was true -- I'm not willing to hold off on attacking him
(Philippe) if it's not going to advance my position somewhere else.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Russia
I should also note that Philippe and I not working together is clearly all my
fault. I knew that pressing him on Ser vs. Bud was unlikely to be successful,
but I tried anyway. He has not shown a propensity to discuss moves in the
detail I was pressing for, and he has not shown an interest in switching from
his first choice of moves. If I really wanted to be daring, I'd have agreed
to take his support for Bud-Ser, and would have added Rum-Bul, Sev-Arm. I may
be being too conservative by not risking it.
Thoughts from the observers?
--- Eric
Message from Austria to Russia
> Again, my thinking with Tri-Ser is that next year you would be able to press
> to Bul and possibly Gre. But let's assume that I am the mover. If I move
> Bud-Ser in Fall, how would you want to cooperate next year? With me in Ser
> and you in Tri/Vie, how would we press forward?
>
> As I've said several times now, and you are probably sick of hearing by now,
> I really want to cooperate with you. I just want to be sure that what we're
> doing is actually leading to cooperation that can be ongoing.
I don't have much time and I don't care to elaborate game
long strategy with someone who just took over part of my
homeland. If you really want to work with me, I'm sure a
way can be found to make it happen, the most obvious
being attacking Turkey in the Balkans and at home while
Italy is ousted of Venice with Munich's help.
Anyway, I guess Bud will tell me how much you want to
work with me.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Italy
Has France been on time for any turn of this game??
Message from Russia to Austria
Clearly I'm annoying you and I'm sorry about that. My understanding from last
season was that you were unwilling to talk about attacking Turkey if it had a
chance of giving Andy room to grow. As I've tried to explain, that was the
only reason I moved as I did.
I'm not trying to get you to divulge your gamelong plan, I'm just trying to
understand how we'd cooperate if you were not willing to work against Turkey.
Your last message implies that you are not averse to working against Turkey,
which is a lot of what I have been trying to figure out. Remember it was you
that pointed out how odd it would be for me to figure out your goals given
that you are aiding RT.
So does this mean you are ordering Tri S Bud-Ser?
--- Eric
Austria: Fleet Albania SUPPORT Italian Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Austria: Army Trieste → Budapest (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna SUPPORT Army Trieste → Budapest
England: Fleet English Channel → Belgium
England: Fleet Helgoland Bight SUPPORT Fleet Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet Irish Sea → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
England: Fleet Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Fleet English Channel → Belgium
France: Army Belgium SUPPORT Army Holland (*cut, dislodged*)
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Western Mediterranean (*bounce*)
France: Army Holland SUPPORT English Fleet Kiel (*void, destroyed*)
France: Army Marseilles → Piedmont
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Brest
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Western Mediterranean
Germany: Army Berlin → Kiel
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Berlin → Kiel
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Army Rome → Tuscany
Italy: Fleet Tunis → Western Mediterranean (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Tyrolia → Trieste (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tunis → Western Mediterranean
Russia: Fleet Baltic Sea → Denmark
Russia: Army Budapest HOLD
Russia: Army Munich SUPPORT German Army Berlin → Kiel (*cut*)
Russia: Army Norway → Sweden
Russia: Fleet Rumania → Sevastopol
Russia: Army Sevastopol → Ukraine
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Munich
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea → Eastern Mediterranean
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Greece → Aegean Sea
Turkey: Army Serbia SUPPORT Russian Army Budapest
|