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Message from Italy to Austria
> Andy,
>
> Any suggestion?
>
Question for you.
If you have to lose a dot, who would you prefer to lose it to,
Russia, Turkey or me.
I think that we MUST get Turkey and Russia fighting.
Offer Turkey Trieste if he will not support Budapest. Tell him you would
prefer he got your dots than the Russian. He seems to bite on things like
that.
Tell him I am supporting Vienna or playing with Munich or whatnot.
you order
Tri - Bud
Vie s Tri - Bud
Alb s Ion - Gre
Tyr - Tri
Ion - Gre
I will let the russian know that I am moving Ion...which he will relay to
the Turk and he will try to take Ion with Gre as the supporting unit.
I will also try to get Russia to tap Bul...on principle.
How does that sound.
Message from Italy to England
> > Now cut out his bloody heart.
> This sort of makes me want to play with the Pitkissers, and sort of makes me
> alittle nervous. ;o)
> Can you offer support for RUH - MUN?
Not sure. I may have a need for Tyrolia down south....why would I be
spporting Germany back into Munich...other than to slow the Russian down,
who is likely my only ally on the east side of the board.
Message from Italy to France
Erik,
Now that we have the customary, finger pointing out of the way.
How do we untangle from this mess.
Andy
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
> >> I know I'm getting to be a threat, but I don't
> >> know if I'm the lesser of the evils of "allies" that you face.
> >
> >I dont know what you mean here.
>
> I mean that I don't know if you're more worried about me and my position, or
> more angry with Philippe and Jason for continuing to pursue you. I suspect
> the former at this point.
Well....these are two different things, hitting Philippe is out of the
question til I have a couple more dots, hitting Jason is definitely
possible, but you seem to be propped up in bed with him....smoking.
What do I get out of attacking Philippe and/or Jason.
> >> So, if you know Philippe was vacating Tri, would you have moved there
> >> yourself?
> >
> >Probably not.
>
> Not surprising.
It wasnt fall.....if you are going to 1 dot someone, which I rarely advise
on doing, you do it in the fall.
> >So..what can you offer me.
>
> Well, it depends on what you want. There are certainly ways I could distract
> Turkey and perhaps help you regain Gre (though I doubt that could happen by
> Fall unless Philippe helps you). But would you be okay with gaining on Jason
> and Philippe in a way that also helps my position?
I might be able to get Philippe to help me.
As long as it gets us closer to being equals where I can be the fleet
power and you can be the army power and we eventually DMZ the turkish
home centers, I can work toward that.
> > Its going to take you a while to get another
> > army in position to force this situation.
>
> No doubt, and that's assuming I even hold the position I have.
>
> > How do you see the board right now....
>
> Well, if Boh-Mun had bounced as I thought it would, I'd probably offer you
> Vie (and by extension, Tri next year). But whatever our relationship, I don't
> want to see Jason get a free pass into Italy, so I'd like to see you get some
> units to slow him down. I don't know if that means stabbing him necessarily
> -- helping you acheives much of the same goal, I think.
Well...you are giving him one assuming you keep the pressure on Austria
and not attacking him .
> Philippe seem
> to have a really odd relationship. Is there some history there, or did you
> both just hit it off really badly in early negotiations?
>
The latter.
> > who do you stab and when??
>
> At this point I'm really not sure what I'm going to do next -- it's too early
> in the turn (you can see why I envy your FtF skills). I clearly don't need
> any more builds than I appear to have now; though I may need more dots, since
> I can't necessarily hold either I'm on right now.
Please tell me you are kidding....
Berlin works every day.
Well...I will be adding lots to my journal of *what I would do if I were
Russia and has this positioning*.
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
> How does that sound.
Sound like a good plan. I will check to see
if Turkey is biting and get back to you.
Message from Italy to Austria
> > How does that sound.
>
> Sound like a good plan. I will check to see
> if Turkey is biting and get back to you.
Thanks...
I think it helps us both.
Message from France to Italy
> Now that we have the customary, finger pointing out of the way.
>
> How do we untangle from this mess.
>
Yes, always good to get the squabbling out of the way so we can get down to
business.
The big problem, as I see it, is that Russia is about to run away with the
game, and Turkey is helping him do it. My obvious routes of expansion
right now are into you or into England, but weakening either of you hurts
your ability to prevent Russia and Turkey from getting out of control.
It's a pickle.
The best course of action might be to work with England to get him to
abandon the continent and focus on Scandanavia, allowing me to pour armies
through Kiel / Ruhr / Munich and into Russia. At the same time, I could
withdraw from the Med while leaving one Navy down there -- not enough to
threaten you, but enough to support your navies where needed against
Turkey.
Thoughts?
Erik
Message from Italy to France
Erik,
>
> Yes, always good to get the squabbling out of the way so we can get down to
> business.
Exactly.
> The big problem, as I see it, is that Russia is about to run away with the
> game, and Turkey is helping him do it. My obvious routes of expansion
> right now are into you or into England, but weakening either of you hurts
> your ability to prevent Russia and Turkey from getting out of control.
> It's a pickle.
Ok....I think that England wants to fight you, that is just my feeling.
I dont want to fight you, and I can hold off the Turk, and support
Austria for a time, as long as you dont attack me.
We need to get Turkey and Russia fighting, and if I can bottle up the
Turk, he wont have any choice in the matter, he will have to deal with the
Russian.
>
> The best course of action might be to work with England to get him to
> abandon the continent and focus on Scandanavia, allowing me to pour armies
> through Kiel / Ruhr / Munich and into Russia.
You will need to spend next year showing him that he cant overrun you.
Which he believes he can do, and without some sort of reason to stop
taking your dots, he wont.
Do you think you can get Tony to help you, in return for helping him.
Offer to support Ber- Kie in return for Ruh supporting Holland.
Support Belgium with Burgandy. So that even if Tony bails on you, you
protect one of your dots.....
Also....Spa - Por and Lyo - Spa will guarantee leverage on the Mao in the
Spring. Mao has to go to Bre in the fall.
At the same time, I could
> withdraw from the Med while leaving one Navy down there -- not enough to
> threaten you, but enough to support your navies where needed against
> Turkey.
I dont think you can afford to take on the English with only 2 fleets
until at the very earliest you can protect Bre with an army....
take care
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> > Can you offer support for RUH - MUN?
>
> Not sure. I may have a need for Tyrolia down south....why would I be
> spporting Germany back into Munich...other than to slow the
> Russian down,
> who is likely my only ally on the east side of the board.
Slowing the Russian down. Not even stopping - just slowing down. That's
the reason. If you can't you can't.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > > Can you offer support for RUH - MUN?
> >
> > Not sure. I may have a need for Tyrolia down south....why would I be
> > spporting Germany back into Munich...other than to slow the
> > Russian down,
> > who is likely my only ally on the east side of the board.
> Slowing the Russian down. Not even stopping - just slowing down. That's
> the reason. If you can't you can't.
I am thinking the best way for you to slow down the Russian is be as
formidible as you can be, when the time comes.....
You are guaranteed one build, and should get 2 from the French.
That will give you the fleets to go play in Scandanavia.
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> I am thinking the best way for you to slow down the Russian is be as
> formidible as you can be, when the time comes.....
>
> You are guaranteed one build, and should get 2 from the French.
>
> That will give you the fleets to go play in Scandanavia.
I am proud to say, this is the plan I had already come up with. The problem
is if Russia gets three builds then I think I still end up getting squished.
*Unless* you can get Turkey to go after RUM, which I am mentioning to him as
well - turning Russian attention south. It seems a natural move. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > I am thinking the best way for you to slow down the Russian is be as
> > formidible as you can be, when the time comes.....
> >
> > You are guaranteed one build, and should get 2 from the French.
> >
> > That will give you the fleets to go play in Scandanavia.
> I am proud to say, this is the plan I had already come up with. The problem
> is if Russia gets three builds then I think I still end up getting squished.
My feeling is that he can get 3 builds and we may have no say at all in
it.
> *Unless* you can get Turkey to go after RUM, which I am mentioning to him as
> well - turning Russian attention south. It seems a natural move. . .
Im working on it.
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason.
Where the love.
I could call you a rat bastard for taking Greece, but it was a pretty
forgone conclusion.
You know that I can keep you bottled up in the Med...right.?
I propose to you a something that can help both of us.
Have you thought about popping the fleet in RUM.
Something like
BUL - RUM
GRE - BUL
SER s BUL - RUM
BLa - SEV
It guarantees RUM, it give me back my dot, it gets the Russian fleet out
of your back yard and if he is trying to do something sneaky...like move
to Armenia...it punishes him for it.
Otherwise, he is going to build 3 this season, and start rolling the
board.
just my .02
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
> hitting Jason is definitely
> possible, but you seem to be propped up in bed with him....smoking.
LOL! But I don't smoke.
> What do I get out of attacking Philippe and/or Jason.
Pretty much what you say you'd need below. And no, I don't expect you to
attack Philippe now (Fall) that was more a longer-term question.
>> Well, it depends on what you want. There are certainly ways I could
distract
>> Turkey and perhaps help you regain Gre (though I doubt that could happen
by
>> Fall unless Philippe helps you). But would you be okay with gaining on
Jason
>> and Philippe in a way that also helps my position?
>
>I might be able to get Philippe to help me.
FWIW, I've suggested to him that he should. Don't know if he's really
listening to me at this point, though.
> As long as it gets us closer to being equals where I can be the fleet
> power and you can be the army power and we eventually DMZ the turkish
> home centers, I can work toward that.
Well, you cooperating with Philippe in Gre makes sense to me regardless of
what you agree to (or don't) with me. I can try to suggest moves to Jason
that make him vulnerable to an attack there. If he were to lose Gre and I
were honk him off, then I would think that would go a long way towards
getting you into that position. It would also make it safer for you to
operate against Philippe -- since that would probably create an AT alliance
that would keep me from seeing gains for a while.
> Well...you are giving him one assuming you keep the pressure on Austria
> and not attacking him.
True, but that's kind of the point of the above statement. If you and
Philippe manage to take Gre (and it kind of doesn't matter who ends up there
from my point of view) then that problem is averted. From my perspective (and
correct me if I'm wrong about this) you don't care if I say that I'm going to
help you do it or not, you'll only believe the actual moves, which will tell
you how I'm going to move for the next few seasons. So I'm not promising you
anything right now, because like last season you have no reason to believe
it. My point is that you and Philippe getting together on Gre is good for you
whether or not there is an RT. And if I know that there is cooperation there,
then I at least have the option to aid it.
>> Is there some history there, or did you
>> both just hit it off really badly in early negotiations?
>
> The latter.
Wow. That's an amazing amount of animosity to create in just pre-01 talks.
I'll be intersted to see what the story is in the press.
>> At this point I'm really not sure what I'm going to do next -- it's too
early
>> in the turn (you can see why I envy your FtF skills).
>
> Please tell me you are kidding....
>
> Berlin works every day.
Well, yes. But that doesn't answer the question of HOW to take it. So maybe
I'm misunderstanding your question. I mean "try to hold my gains and make
sure EF keep fighting" is also what I was thinking, but that doesn't make it
obvious to me how I would go about it, or who if anyone should be stabbed to
get there.
> Well...I will be adding lots to my journal of *what I would do if I were
> Russia and has this positioning*.
I do appreciate this. For me, the value of playing in this game is the
feedback I can get from people critiquing my play, not so much what other
people are going to "learn from me" by observing me. Almost like a
retroactive "teachme" game.
--- Eric
Message from Italy to Russia
> > hitting Jason is definitely
> > possible, but you seem to be propped up in bed with him....smoking.
>
> LOL! But I don't smoke.
Its good that you understand my statement.
> > What do I get out of attacking Philippe and/or Jason.
>
> Pretty much what you say you'd need below. And no, I don't expect you to
> attack Philippe now (Fall) that was more a longer-term question.
Ok.
> >> Well, it depends on what you want. There are certainly ways I could
> distract
> >> Turkey and perhaps help you regain Gre (though I doubt that could happen
> by
> >> Fall unless Philippe helps you). But would you be okay with gaining on
> Jason
> >> and Philippe in a way that also helps my position?
> >
> >I might be able to get Philippe to help me.
>
> FWIW, I've suggested to him that he should. Don't know if he's really
> listening to me at this point, though.
He has said that he will.
> > As long as it gets us closer to being equals where I can be the fleet
> > power and you can be the army power and we eventually DMZ the turkish
> > home centers, I can work toward that.
>
> Well, you cooperating with Philippe in Gre makes sense to me regardless of
> what you agree to (or don't) with me.
I agree.
I can try to suggest moves to Jason
> that make him vulnerable to an attack there. If he were to lose Gre and I
> were honk him off, then I would think that would go a long way towards
> getting you into that position.
I also agree.
It would also make it safer for you to
> operate against Philippe -- since that would probably create an AT alliance
> that would keep me from seeing gains for a while.
Probably. But not assured.
> > Well...you are giving him one assuming you keep the pressure on Austria
> > and not attacking him.
>
> True, but that's kind of the point of the above statement. If you and
> Philippe manage to take Gre (and it kind of doesn't matter who ends up there
> from my point of view) then that problem is averted. From my perspective (and
> correct me if I'm wrong about this) you don't care if I say that I'm going to
> help you do it or not, you'll only believe the actual moves, which will tell
> you how I'm going to move for the next few seasons.
Yes, but not quite so thorough.
The moves play out the words, but dont always set in stone the next few
seasons, but certainly point you in the direction I can work with/or not.
So I'm not promising you
> anything right now, because like last season you have no reason to believe
> it. My point is that you and Philippe getting together on Gre is good for you
> whether or not there is an RT. And if I know that there is cooperation there,
> then I at least have the option to aid it.
You should assume cooperation there.
> >> Is there some history there, or did you
> >> both just hit it off really badly in early negotiations?
> >
> > The latter.
>
> Wow. That's an amazing amount of animosity to create in just pre-01 talks.
> I'll be intersted to see what the story is in the press.
The short form is that his opening style hit me all wrong, especially
considering the position I was playing and he defended well.
> >> At this point I'm really not sure what I'm going to do next -- it's too
> early
> >> in the turn (you can see why I envy your FtF skills).
> >
> > Please tell me you are kidding....
> >
> > Berlin works every day.
>
> Well, yes. But that doesn't answer the question of HOW to take it. So maybe
> I'm misunderstanding your question. I mean "try to hold my gains and make
> sure EF keep fighting" is also what I was thinking, but that doesn't make it
> obvious to me how I would go about it, or who if anyone should be stabbed to
> get there.
Who could take MUN or BUD from you?
SER will assuredly support BUD, and there are 2 friendly units on Munich.
Germany and France will never work together.
SIL - BER supported by Baltic
> > Russia and has this positioning*.
>
> I do appreciate this. For me, the value of playing in this game is the
> feedback I can get from people critiquing my play, not so much what other
> people are going to "learn from me" by observing me. Almost like a
> retroactive "teachme" game.
No problem....
And the one thing you keep mentioning is dead on true.
My FtF experience lets me look at the board and make an assesment in about
20 seconds.
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Can you offer support for BUR - MUN?
Ben
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> Can you offer support for BUR - MUN?
No.
Not until I dont have french fleets in the Med.
But secondarily...not until I know what Tyrolia needs to do in the east.
But likely....NO
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
What I was asking (as I recall) was if you would *offer* the support. I
didn't ask if you would give it.
But the answer is the same, I suspect.
Ben
Message from Turkey to Italy
Andy,
I have and will be taking Rum this turn. Don't worry, I don't him
getting 3 builds, either.
I understand why you need Greece to hold off France, and frankly I don't
want France getting too far into the Med. I'll certainly take your plan
under advisement. Austria is wanting to get Bud back also, so perhaps we
can work something out in that area as well.
jason
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Will you be in a position to press France in the south, after F1904B, best guess? Keep me apprised.
Ben
Message from Russia to all
The holiday season is upon me in about half an hour when I will be leaving
for this year's family get togethers.
The conditions in the gathering place are so primitive that neither a TiVo
nor a network connection is available, so unless someone wants to call me on
the phone (and there is no answering machine there either!) I will not be
available for negotiations until I return late Sunday or early Monday.
Happy (early) holidays everyone!
--- Eric
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> Will you be in a position to press France in the south, after F1904B,
best guess? Keep me apprised.
If need be...yeah.
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> What I was asking (as I recall) was if you would *offer* the support. I
> didn't ask if you would give it.
I could offer it, but it should certainly make Erik suspicious as he
should never come to expect it after he has just attacked me
I could do it, but it will likely make him more suspicious than need be.
Message from Italy to Austria
Philippe,
What are you talks with Turkey consisting of, he just sent me a note as if
he had spoken to you, but wouldnt commit to anything concrete.
What did you tell him about us.
Andy
Message from Italy to Turkey
Jason,
> I have and will be taking Rum this turn. Don't worry, I don't him
> getting 3 builds, either.
Good.
> I understand why you need Greece to hold off France, and frankly I don't
> want France getting too far into the Med. I'll certainly take your plan
> under advisement. Austria is wanting to get Bud back also, so perhaps we
> can work something out in that area as well.
Well....to force Rum, you need all of your units (SER, BUL and BLA),
If I know that I am not disbanding, I am prepared to move west in force as
long as you and I can leave the ION empty.
Is that fair?
Andy
Message from Turkey to Italy
Russia is supposed to be giving me Rum voluntarialy, but we'll see. He
might hose me over it.
I'll go along with the Gre plan - I'll back out and let you keep the
center to avoid the disband.
jason
Message from Italy to Turkey
> Russia is supposed to be giving me Rum voluntarialy, but we'll see. He
> might hose me over it.
It certainly wouldnt surprise me.
>
> I'll go along with the Gre plan - I'll back out and let you keep the
> center to avoid the disband.
May I ask how....I suspect GRE - AEG, AEG - EAS/SMY/CON
btw...thanks, I appreciate it.
take care
Andy
Message from Italy to Austria
Philippe,
What is Jason telling you he is doing?
thanks
Andy
Message from Turkey to Italy
Right, that's the plan: Gre - Aeg, Aeg - Eas.
That should leave me covered while not interfering with you.
BTW: Just got a note from France. He wants to know if he should head
against England or help me fight you. I'll try to make him split his
forces so the two of you can handle him.
jason
Message from Austria to Italy
> What are you talks with Turkey consisting of, he just sent me a note as if
> he had spoken to you, but wouldnt commit to anything concrete.
>
> What did you tell him about us.
All I said was that I was happy to see you didn't
attack me and asked him if he wanted to go for
Tri and let me get Bud back.
I'm still unsure of what he wants to do.
Philippe
Message from Austria to all
Hi all,
I don't know for the rest of you, but I'm not going to be
available from the december 24 to sometime after
january first because of the holydays, so an extension of
the next dl to january 6 would be appreciated.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in advance,
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
> > What are you talks with Turkey consisting of, he just sent me a note as if
> > he had spoken to you, but wouldnt commit to anything concrete.
> >
> > What did you tell him about us.
>
> All I said was that I was happy to see you didn't
> attack me and asked him if he wanted to go for
> Tri and let me get Bud back.
>
> I'm still unsure of what he wants to do.
He tells me that he is going to back out and give me Greece, I dont
neccesarily beleive him.
Do I still have Albania's support to Greece?
And do you want me to go to Trieste with Tyrolia or something
else....basically the units is yours to order.
Andy
Message from Austria to Italy
> He tells me that he is going to back out and give me Greece, I dont
> neccesarily beleive him.
>
> Do I still have Albania's support to Greece?
Yes, or anything else you might like me to order for
this fleet by the way.
> And do you want me to go to Trieste with Tyrolia or something
> else....basically the units is yours to order.
For the moment yes as I'm still hoping that Jason
will go for it; but just in case it appear not to be
likely, it would be a good thing to check what
Tony's plans are.
Philippe
Message from Italy to Austria
> > He tells me that he is going to back out and give me Greece, I dont
> > neccesarily beleive him.
> >
> > Do I still have Albania's support to Greece?
>
> Yes, or anything else you might like me to order for
> this fleet by the way.
Thank you
>
> > And do you want me to go to Trieste with Tyrolia or something
> > else....basically the units is yours to order.
>
> For the moment yes as I'm still hoping that Jason
> will go for it; but just in case it appear not to be
> likely, it would be a good thing to check what
> Tony's plans are.
I will put in my orders as this, and set wait while I wait for Tony to
return the note I will send him.
Andy
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
Is there anything you might want Tyrolia to do.
Other than support France to dots.
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Is there anything you might want Tyrolia to do.
> Other than support France to dots.
Heh. What I wanted was for BUR not to be supporting BEL. But if you don't think there'd be a point in offering the support - in other words, if you don't think he'd take the bait - don't bother.
If Turkey is taking RUM with an army and you think TR war is on the horizon - go to PIE. Defend yourself, for god's sake. Even if TR is not splitting up, if you are not prepared to go against Russia, go to PIE.
Ben
Message from Italy to Italy
Has France been on time for any turn of this game??
Austria: Fleet Albania SUPPORT Italian Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Austria: Army Trieste → Budapest (*bounce*)
Austria: Army Vienna SUPPORT Army Trieste → Budapest
England: Fleet English Channel → Belgium
England: Fleet Helgoland Bight SUPPORT Fleet Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet Irish Sea → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
England: Fleet Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Fleet English Channel → Belgium
France: Army Belgium SUPPORT Army Holland (*cut, dislodged*)
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Western Mediterranean (*bounce*)
France: Army Holland SUPPORT English Fleet Kiel (*void, destroyed*)
France: Army Marseilles → Piedmont
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Brest
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Gulf of Lyon → Western Mediterranean
Germany: Army Berlin → Kiel
Germany: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Army Berlin → Kiel
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Army Rome → Tuscany
Italy: Fleet Tunis → Western Mediterranean (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Tyrolia → Trieste (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tunis → Western Mediterranean
Russia: Fleet Baltic Sea → Denmark
Russia: Army Budapest HOLD
Russia: Army Munich SUPPORT German Army Berlin → Kiel (*cut*)
Russia: Army Norway → Sweden
Russia: Fleet Rumania → Sevastopol
Russia: Army Sevastopol → Ukraine
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Munich
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea → Eastern Mediterranean
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Greece → Aegean Sea
Turkey: Army Serbia SUPPORT Russian Army Budapest
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