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Message from Russia to England and Italy
> Movement results for Spring of 1911. (titleist.042)
> Russia: Army Warsaw -> Ukraine.
> Russia: Army Munich -> Tyrolia. (*bounce, dislodged*)
> Russia: Fleet Holland -> Belgium.
> Russia: Army Vienna -> Trieste. (*bounce*)
> Russia: Army Moscow -> Livonia.
>
> The following units were dislodged:
>
> The Russian Army in Munich with no valid retreats was destroyed.
Damn! I changed War-Gal from War-Ukr, because I was afraid that
Mun AND Vie would both be dislodged, and I'd only have Boh to
retreat to. I didn't consider not having a retreat for Mun... Damn,
Damn, Damn...
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Damn! I changed War-Gal from War-Ukr, because I was afraid that
> Mun AND Vie would both be dislodged, and I'd only have Boh to
> retreat to. I didn't consider not having a retreat for Mun... Damn,
> Damn, Damn...
>
This is either
a) you're not paying attention
b) you didn't read any of the messages sent by England or Italy
c) you don't understand what it means to have all possible supports cut
d) a load of crock
Idalia, who votes for 'd' since any half-wit would be able to figure out
that SIL-BOH would prevent any possible retreat to Bohemia.
ps: Ivy, I think you're going to need to ask for a raise to bribe the prison
guards.....
Message from Russia to England and Italy
> Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > Damn! I changed War-Gal from War-Ukr, because I was afraid that
> > Mun AND Vie would both be dislodged
> This is either
>
> a) you're not paying attention
> b) you didn't read any of the messages sent by England or Italy
> c) you don't understand what it means to have all possible supports cut
> d) a load of crock
>
> Idalia, who votes for 'd' since any half-wit would be able to figure out
> that SIL-BOH would prevent any possible retreat to Bohemia.
Forgive me, I typed Boh, when I meant Sil. (I'm the one who suggested
Sil-Tyl, remember? 8-) I was responding to the results without looking
at the map.
Nick.
Message from France to all
Headlines for the French Newspaper Le Monde read:
INSANE!
Has Le Dauphin gone insane?
Anonymous sources close to the royal family talk of in-
fighting between the two brothers. The Prince is disturb
at how much at risk the Dauphin put French soldiers and
territory, while the Dauphin states that the Prince's
total lack of diplomatic success has forced him to take
extreme measures.
The general sentiment in Paris is that the Dauphin took
unnecessary chances that only extreme good fortune
resulted in only near disastrous and not completely
catastrophic outcome in the spring. Unfortunately the
situation for the fall looks quite bleak. Some say that
he is trying to create an extreme crisis that will allow
him to declare a state of emergency and officially crown
himself King despite the fact that his father lingers in
poor health. One must wonder whether the people would
support him or his brother? A bleak military situation
might swing the pendulum to the Dauphin, which is perhaps
the reason for this craziness.
YGNACIO RAMANET
Message from Master to England and France
Ivy:
>>Farve. Ho-hum. Piece o' cake.
>Oops, make that "Favre"
Pronounced "Favvvv-ruh", ala "There's Something About Mary".
That scene slayed me.
Doug
Message from Italy to England and Russia
> >
> > > Damn! I changed War-Gal from War-Ukr, because I was afraid that
> > > Mun AND Vie would both be dislodged
>
>
> Forgive me, I typed Boh, when I meant Sil. (I'm the one who suggested
> Sil-Tyl, remember? 8-) I was responding to the results
> without looking
> at the map.
>
This still doesn't explain the fact that, given our agreed upon set of
moves, VIENNA COULD NOT BE DISLODGED!!!!!
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>So, from a hypothetical point of view. What would
>have to happen for us to begin working together again?
Oh, that's easy to answer. We need to be roughly comparable in size. I
can't tell yet if that's ever going to occur.
>I like Nick, but he can be frustrating to try and deal with.
Why didn't you list the other 14 reasons? Pity me; I've had to deal with
him the past two games (I think -- not quite certain).
>Roberto, I am happy to not have to deal with right now.
Right now, he is very easy for me to work with, but for a long time he
either didn't care or put on a great act.
>I do miss working with you, not that I would not be
>worried about that third betrayal? :-)
Hey, I am only one up on you. The last time our "betrayal" was mutual and
probably necessary.
>I would have been happy to have this thing end.
>But if it must go on, I would prefer it not be so
>excruciating boring.
I don't find it boring from a tactical point of view. Strategically, I see
no possibility of a solo for me. So my heart isn't into the effort
anymore. I do think my head is sufficiently engaged.
I'll be setting draw again.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Nick, Italy
> Damn,
>Damn, Damn...
Sorry, Nick, it takes four "Damns" to be convincing. I don't believe you.
I take the primary blame for Munich, for I thought it always had a
retreat. Vienna was completely safe, and we all know that.
I can just picture you, Nick, writing your moves. "W-a-r-s-a-w t-o
G-a-l-U-k-i-c-i-U-k-r-a-G-a-l-U-k-r-a-i-n-e" -- just like Dr.Strangelove's
right arm, you cannot quite control the urge. Sevastopol pulls like a magnet.
So, what do we do? My principle, drawn from life, is to work from the
given situation and assume that other people will act admirably. Sometimes
I am disappointed, sometimes I disappoint myself, but it's a rewarding
principle.
Where are we? We lost Munich and gained Belgium. Belgium can be protected
and Munich regained. Even though we are not in Bohemia and Galicia (best
laid plans ...), France is in bad shape in Austria. We will certainly
cause him to lose one supply center this year; most likely two. We
probably get Belgium and Budapest from France this year.
In the southeast we have parity, but we must be careful. We cannot let the
fleet in Smyrna be driven back to Syria, because it can be destroyed
there. I think BlackSea supp Con->Bul & Smy->Con may be needed. This will
result in either a standoff or a trade. If France gets Smyrna he can do no
further damage from there, and the Italian fleet would be safe in
Constantinople. Once France has to begin destroying units, I think we will
see him weakening his southeastern forces. He will protect spaces nearer home.
We need to figure out how to handle Munich. I am sitting in Berlin, which
belongs to Nick. If I take Munich from Berlin, then Nick keeps
Berlin. Also, StP is still there if we need to balance the books.
Who has some time to suggest a set of moves?
Oh, yes, one more thing. What would happen if Nick moved to Sevastopol
this fall? I truly believe it would quickly end the game.
Your long-suffering ally,
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Oh, yes, one more thing. What would happen if Nick moved to Sevastopol
>this fall? I truly believe it would quickly end the game.
Yeah. I do believe that.
This doesn't change things I said before. Once we reduce France past the
point of danger, I think Italy will be very vulnerable. Right now, the
game is still in jeopardy if you, I, and Italy fall apart.
I don't know what to do with Berlin, Munich, StP so that the outcome is
fair. At a minimum you deserve two builds this year. Any suggestions?
Ivy
Message from England to Master
Doug,
> >Oops, make that "Favre"
>
>Pronounced "Favvvv-ruh", ala "There's Something About Mary".
>
>That scene slayed me.
Yes!
****************
I could STRANGLE Russia.
Allen
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Thank you VERY much for the note.
>Uh, that's easy to answer. We need to be roughly
>comparable in size.
We seem to be heading that way
>>I like Nick, but he can be frustrating to try and
>>deal with.
>Why didn't you list the other 14 reasons?
Now, now. I can't begin to come up with 14 reasons!
Unless you are refering to my 14 units?
>>Roberto, I am happy to not have to deal with right now.
>Right now, he is very easy for me to work with, but
>for a long time he either didn't care or put on a
>great act.
He only communicates when he has a need to do so, even
then sometimes minimimally. I believe that he can do a
better job when he puts his mind to it. But he does not
always care or is too busy to take the time. You
mentioned that your head is not in this, and I really
wanted the game to end because life is too busy. But
someone else probably feels that they can still win this
tournament. More power to them I guess. But I did
agree with your comments that they could have just said
so. I do not know what is gained by lying about it? I
am not bothering to set draw again unless I hear
convincing statements from everyone. We play on to the
next potential draw point.
>Hey, I am only one up on you. The last time our
>"betrayal" was mutual and probably necessary.
Understood. But Prince Boar did make that promise to the
people of France that you would not betray us again!
Then again, all politicians make promises.
>I don't find it boring from a tactical point of view.
Understood again. There are myriads of paths that can be
taken. But I do not care for nopress and tactics are not
my most favorite part of the game. So all I am left with
is a strategy to take, since right now diplomacy is
useless.
--Prince Boar
Message from Italy to England
>
> Who has some time to suggest a set of moves?
>
Even if I did, I wouldn't discuss them with Russia. I've made the mistake
of telling Russia my moves the last two turns and both times he and France
made the exact correct set of moves to cause me the most pain. I do not
believe that to be coincidence. Spare yourself some grief and don't spend
too much time on moves this turn.
I will say, Silesia will not support Berlin to Munich. I would consider
supporting Kiel to Munich.
Italy
Message from England to Italy
Italy
>Even if I did, I wouldn't discuss them with Russia.
Understood.
>I will say, Silesia will not support Berlin to Munich. I would consider
>supporting Kiel to Munich.
I'll think about this and get back to you.
I may have written too hastily about tactics in the southeast. The ideal
configuration for your three units down there would be army in Bulgaria and
fleets in Smyrna and Constantinople. It may be possible to get your army
into Bulgaria, the Black Sea into Constantinople, while permitting Smyrna
to be driven to Syria for a turn. Donno. Another consideration for both
you and france is the possible destruction of the French fleet in Bulgaria.
I'll let you know if Russia says anything interesting or useful in response
to my note.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Our end of the world suddenly is a bit more interesting.
At least from my end there are more than just one
possibility. I was pretty nervous about your ordering
Pic to Bre, but figured that you were not willing to lose
the fleet in the spring. It is too bad that I messed up
the south.
I actually had fallen asleep and got up an hour before
the deadline. I verified that my mailbox was empty and
then sat down bleery-eyed to try and figure out what to
do. Being generally sick of things and a bit drousy, I
decide to go the major risk route hoping that you all
would be conservative. I should have went for Galicia as
well, I thought about it for a long time but figured it
would get bounced.
I also could have walked into Picardy from Paris and kept
Belgium. But all and all, things went OK so I will not
complain. I did get rid of one Russian unit near the
front for you. You should send the Dauphin a thank you
note. Who knows, the second may go as well?
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy:
:-) This describes Italy to a tee! It was his reply
back to me.
> I will check in once a season just to say hi.
>
No need. If you don't have anything of substance to
say, I'd just assume
not waste the bandwidth or the time.
:-)
--Prince Boar
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
> > Damn, Damn, Damn...
> it takes four "Damns" to be convincing. I don't believe you.
You don't believe that I'm annoyed at the destruction of my Army in
Munich? That's what the "Damns" were for.
> Vienna was completely safe, and we all know that.
Yes, in reviewing your initial proposal, I see that Vienna was safe, but
as I looked at my moves yesterday morning, and knowing how little
Roberto trusts me, I worried that Vie could get destroyed. My instincts
were right; I was just worried about the wrong Army.
> Sevastopol pulls like a magnet.
Not really. I fully expect Roberto to try to throw the game to France if
I take Sev without his permission, and I've fought too long with too
little to throw it all away, now. The move to Ukr was to allow Vie to
retreat to Gal, if it was dislodged. (Even though it couldn't be, if Italy
moved according to plan.)
> We cannot let the fleet in Smyrna be driven back to Syria, because
> it can be destroyed there. I think Bla S Con->Bul & Smy->Con
> may be needed. This will result in either a standoff or a trade. If
> France gets Smyrna he can do no further damage from there, and
> the Italian fleet would be safe in Constantinople.
You ignore Tri-Alb. If he moves Alb-Gre, that Army is available
to Convoy to Turkey. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but
we need a fourth Unit in Turkey.
> We need to figure out how to handle Munich. I am sitting in Berlin,
> which belongs to Nick. If I take Munich from Berlin, then Nick
> keeps Berlin. Also, StP is still there if we need to balance the books.
The other alternative is Sil-Mun, Ukr-Sev/Rum.
> What would happen if Nick moved to Sevastopol
> this fall? I truly believe it would quickly end the game.
Only if Roberto chooses to view it as a deal breaker, which I grant you,
seems likely.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Yes, in reviewing your initial proposal, I see that Vienna
> was safe, but
> as I looked at my moves yesterday morning, and knowing how little
> Roberto trusts me, I worried that Vie could get destroyed.
> My instincts
> were right; I was just worried about the wrong Army.
>
You are missing a very important point. English and Italian moves are
dependent on your moves. If you choose to change your moves on a whim, then
our moves become invalid.
For example, had I known you were going to move Ukr-War last turn, I would
have defended Budapest in order to prevent my having to remove a unit and
thus kept that oh so important 4th unit in Turkey you keep referring to. I
was publicly assured however that was not in your plans.
If you were so damn worried about needing retreats for Mun and Vie, why not
agree to my suggestion of Sil-Gal; War-Sil? [Note, Munich would be in
Tyrolia rightt now with a walk into Venice this fall].
Bottom line is, one of three things happened this spring to make you order
War-Ukr:
1) you failed to adequately analyze the position
2) you suck rotten donkey eggs as a tactician
3) you have other motives
I fail to believe 1 or 2 to be true for somebody at this point in this game
so that leaves 3.
> The move to Ukr was to allow Vie to retreat to Gal, if it was dislodged.
Then why not War-Pru where it could be useful in conjunction with Ber-Mun;
Pru-Ber? What exactly does an army in the Ukraine provide us even if Vienna
is dislodged?
[Pardon me if you did talk to Ivy about this but it appears you didn't] Why
not broach the subject with England? You're worried about Italy not
following thru and you want to leave Galicia open for retreat. I'll give
odds on any bet Ivy's advice would not have included War-Ukr.
If you've read this far, you're po'd already so I might as well continue.
Nick, did you vote for the draw this spring? I could be wrong but I believe
Russia was the only one not to set draw this past season. I'm just curious
why.
Idalia, debates whether to hit the 'send' button but decides she'll feel so
much better getting this off her chest
Message from Russia to England and Italy
> Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> You are missing a very important point. English and Italian moves are
> dependent on your moves. If you choose to change your moves on a
> whim, then our moves become invalid.
> had I known you were going to move Ukr-War last turn, I would
> have defended Budapest in order to prevent my having to remove
> a unit and thus kept that oh so important 4th unit in Turkey you keep
> referring to. I was publicly assured however that was not in your plans.
Yes, and had I known that you were going to move Gal-War in S1909,
and then attack Moscow that Fall instead of moving to Sil as Ivy and I
both suggested, I would have moved differently, as well. I did mention
serveral hours before the deadline that I thought it made more sense for
me to take War, since it was closer to the front, and as Ivy and I were
finalizing our moves, I decided that taking War was better for Russia,
and EIR vs. F, and made the change. I did not tell you to avoid having
you order Sil-War, instead of Sil S Mun, since Sil-War would bounce
me, and it could have cost me Munich. Plus, given that you did not
announce your move to Warsaw, and it gave you an extra Center that
you could not build for, instead of my building two, I didn't see that I
was under any obligation to tell you I had decided to recapture it.
> If you were so damn worried about needing retreats for Mun and Vie, > why
not agree to my suggestion of Sil-Gal; War-Sil? [Note, Munich
> would be in Tyrolia right now with a walk into Venice this fall].
The worry about retreats was a last minute development. I vetoed
Sil-Gal because I would prefer that you not be adjacent to my Home
Centers, and you claimed to have kept Sil to move it to Ven.
> Bottom line is, one of three things happened this spring to make you
> order War-Ukr:
>
> 1) you failed to adequately analyze the position
> 2) you suck rotten donkey eggs as a tactician
> 3) you have other motives
>
> I fail to believe 1 or 2 to be true for somebody at this point in this
game
> so that leaves 3.
I, obviously, have no control over what you choose to believe. I have
been distracted by RL events for the last couple of weeks, and since my
point of view in EIR decisions carries so little weight, I have left the
lion's
share of the analysis and planning to Ivy. Additionally, of course,
we ALL have other motives. We each, theoretically, want to win the
Tournament, solo if possible, or draw if a solo is unattainable. Some, or
all, of us might also value a smaller draw over a larger one, or want to
play king-maker to the eventual soloist, or survive if a solo happens, or
see a draw that includes only the people whom we feel have played
"well", or to have people who read the "Showcase" article on this game
admire some feature of our play. Diplomacy is, in my view, more a
matter of balancing those sometimes conflicting motives within yourself,
and discerning what it is that most motivates the other players.
> What exactly does an army in the Ukraine provide us even if Vienna
> is dislodged?
It wasn't a carefully analyzed, fully thought-out decision, I looked at a
worst-case scenario of France dislodging Mun and Vie, and switched
to War-Ukr, because it could support Rum, or move to Rum if Rum
took Bud/Bul, or move to Sev and Arm, if that became necessary.
> Why not broach the subject with England?
I was not able to spend time on the game that evening.
> Nick, did you vote for the draw this spring?
Yes, and I announced it. It should be in your files, somewhere.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
> Additionally, of course,
>we ALL have other motives. We each, theoretically, want to win the
>Tournament, solo if possible, or draw if a solo is unattainable. Some, or
>all, of us might also value a smaller draw over a larger one, or want to
>play king-maker to the eventual soloist, or ...
Yes, fair enough. I, for one, do not want to blow this game. Playing at
this level, with this position, being watched by an audience of veterans
who would kill to have participated (but got killed, instead), I do not
want to blow this game.
Any half-decent player could coordinate our three forces and do the job.
It is infinitely more challenging to make it work with three different
personalities with possibly hidden agendas.
I am almost at a loss. I will write to Nick, and I think we can coordinate
the west. I will write to Italy, as well, to see if I can be of service,
although his moves do not necessarily need to be coordinated with anyone.
It gets a little dicey around Rumania/Budapest/Vienna. I am not sure what
can be done there, but I will inquire.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >What would happen if Nick moved to Sevastopol this fall? Yeah. I do
>believe that.
An equally valid question though, is what happens if
France gets an Army to Syr, or a Fleet in Con? Italy
has consistently shown that he's not interested in
protecting the corner, and theoretically, that is his
first responsibility.
>I don't know what to do with Berlin, Munich, StP so that the outcome is
>fair. At a minimum you deserve two builds this year. Any suggestions?
To get two builds, I think Ber-Mun, Lvn-StP would
be necessary, unless Italy was willing to consider
Ser S Rum-Bud, Ukr-Rum.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> It gets a little dicey around Rumania/Budapest/Vienna. I am
> not sure what can be done there, but I will inquire.
>
I will give Russia one last chance to salvage this game.
vie supp ser-tri
ukr - gal
If I see any other moves for these two units in the fall results, game over.
Period.
Idalia
Message from Italy to England
>
> or to have people who read the "Showcase" article on this game
> admire some feature of our play.
>
In Russia's case, it's how poorly he can lie in a critical stage of the
game.
Roberto
ps: who do you think didn't set draw this spring?
Message from Italy to England
>
> If I see any other moves for these two units in the fall
> results, game over.
>
Having provided this ultimatum, I would be willing to support either army
into Munich.
Roberto
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>>I don't know what to do with Berlin, Munich, StP so that the outcome is
>>fair. At a minimum you deserve two builds this year. Any suggestions?
>
>To get two builds, I think Ber-Mun, Lvn-StP would
>be necessary, unless Italy was willing to consider
>Ser S Rum-Bud, Ukr-Rum.
Right now, you own Holland, Belgium, Moscow, Warsaw, Sweden, and Vienna and
would build two units if nothing happened. If Ber-Mun and Lvn-Stp as you
suggest, you would retain Berlin and gain StP. That would be 8 centers and
4 builds, of which you could use 2. I would be down to six centers with
the loss of Stp and would have to destroy a unit.
Am I counting correctly?
I expect that Italy might indeed attack Budapest, but I am not sure that he
will tell me. He may, after he calms down a little. As for
Ukraine->Rumania, I don't know. Let's get our accounting straight first
(see above).
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>ps: who do you think didn't set draw this spring?
France. I think.
Just to amuse you, here is part of an exchange this evening between Russia
and me:
Russia:
>>To get two builds, I think Ber-Mun, Lvn-StP would
>>be necessary, unless Italy was willing to consider
>>Ser S Rum-Bud, Ukr-Rum.
England:
>Right now, you own Holland, Belgium, Moscow, Warsaw, Sweden, and Vienna and
>would build two units if nothing happened. If Ber-Mun and Lvn-Stp as you
>suggest, you would retain Berlin and gain StP. That would be 8 centers and
>4 builds, of which you could use 2. I would be down to six centers with
>the loss of Stp and would have to destroy a unit.
>
>Am I counting correctly?
I am, right?
Ivy
Message from Russia to England, France, and Italy
> Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> > It gets a little dicey around Rumania/Budapest/Vienna. I am
> > not sure what can be done there, but I will inquire.
> >
>
> I will give Russia one last chance to salvage this game.
>
> [Moves Deleted]
> [Moves Deleted]
>
> If I see any other moves for these two units in the fall results, game
over.
> Period.
I will, due to the importance of this game, bite my tongue, and not
fire off the response that leaps to mind, but do not threaten me
again.
Sincerely,
Czar Nicholas II.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
>vie supp ser-tri
>ukr - gal
There are lots of ways to cooperate, and those two moves are reaonable enough.
Just to sweeten the offer, I propose that Kiel and Silesia support
Berlin->Munich. This is a pro-Russian move, of course, since it attempts
to leave Berlin in Russian hands.
If all this is agreeable, I request that Russia move Livonia->Prussia
instead of Livonia->StP. I really don't think it helps if I have to
disband.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
Assuming the following:
nth supp bel
silesia does not move to warsaw
he is guaranteed 5 centers and 1 build. Throw in lvn-stp, and he gets two
builds and you don't lose one.
Yes, you are counting correctly.
----------------------------------------
Just read Russia's broadcast. I think I have his undivided attention.
Roberto
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>> If I see any other moves for these two units in the fall
>>results, game over. Period.
>I will, due to the importance of this game, bite my tongue,
>and not fire off the response that leaps to mind, but do
>not threaten me again.
It seems like once again I am missing all the fun. You mentioned a
couple game years ago that I was missing some good press. (Any chance to
summarize it now that it is old?). I imagine that I am missing some.
--Prince Boar
PS: 9 and 2! Who would have thunk? But can you win with the Bus on the
sidelines? The Jets have this way of winning games that they do not
deserve. I do think that the Steelers will pull it out. In the
Superbowl, Packers and Steelers! We almost would have to meet half way
and watch the game, although I suspect that you would have plenty of
options right at home.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>To get two builds, I think Ber-Mun, Lvn-StP would
>be necessary, unless Italy was willing to consider
>Ser S Rum-Bud, Ukr-Rum.
>you own Hol, Bel, Mos, War, Swe, and Vie and would build two units if
>nothing happened. If Ber-Mun and
>Lvn-Stp as you suggest, you would retain Berlin and
>gain StP. That would be 8 centers and 4 builds, of which you could use 2.
Yes, though the likelihood of my holding Vie, and you
taking Mun from France is by no means certain.
(Vie-Tyl is required to gaurentee the attack on Mun.)
>I would be down to six centers with the loss of Stp and would have to
>destroy a unit. Am I counting correctly?
Umm, no. You will gain either Berlin or Munich, and
remain at seven. Indeed the likely result is Ber-Mun
(*bounce*), leaving us both at 7 Centers, with me
building two of three.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from England to Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
>I propose that Kiel and Silesia support Ber->Mun. This is a pro-Russian
>move, of course, since it
>attempts to leave Berlin in Russian hands.
It would be more effective with Vie-Tyl to cut
support.
>I request that Russia move Livonia->Prussia instead
>of Livonia->StP. I really don't think it helps if
>I have to disband.
You will take either Berlin, or Munich from me.
You won't have to disband. The time has come
for Mother Russia to regain her capital.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Umm, no. You will gain either Berlin or Munich, and
>remain at seven. Indeed the likely result is Ber-Mun
>(*bounce*), leaving us both at 7 Centers, with me
>building two of three.
You are right. I forgot that you keep Berlin only if I get Munich.
From a tactical standpoint, what hurt us most was the loss of your army in
Munich. I didn't see it coming, didn't think it was possible, and I am sorry.
Question #1. Can you live with Lvn->StP, Ukr->Gal, Bel hold, Vie supp
Ser->Trieste? You would end up with 6-8 centers and would build two. If I
had to place odds, I would guess 7 centers, with 8 more likely than 6.
Question #2. Dare we risk Channel supp Belgium &
London->NorthSea->Denmark. With the loss of your Munich army and Livonia
headed for StP, we are again short of armies in the northwest.
Question #3. France may assume that Munich is lost and try for Ruhr. In
the spring he will have three armies on you fleet, and/or three against
Munich. Dare we try Kiel->Ruhr & Silesia supp Berlin->Munich?
Question #1 is the most important.
Nick, I am so weary. Do you think we have any chance of ERI staying
together, or is this game over?
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
I am trying to get Russia to agree on a set of moves that includes your
request concerning Vienna and Ukraine. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Ivy [I am so weary]
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >Umm, no. You will gain either Berlin or Munich, and
> >remain at seven. Indeed the likely result is Ber-Mun
> >(*bounce*), leaving us both at 7 Centers, with me
> >building two of three.
>You are right. I forgot that you keep Berlin only if I get Munich.
And, of course, if Italy orders Sil-War, ...
>From a tactical standpoint, what hurt us most was
>the loss of your army in Munich. I didn't see it
>coming, didn't think it was possible, and I am sorry.
Care to point that out to Roberto? Even the best of
us, and I'm not one of them, overlook or forget about
things. If I had been stabbing Italy, I would have
moved War-Ukr, Mos-Sev, not Mos-Lvn.
>Can you live with Lvn->StP, Ukr->Gal, Bel hold, Vie S Ser->Trieste?
Can we trust Roberto to order Sil S Ber-Mun and not
Sil-War?
>Dare we risk Channel supp Belgium &
London->North Sea->Denmark.
I would think Bel S Lon-Pic would be a better move
if we're going to take a risk.
>France may assume that Munich is lost and try for Ruhr. Dare we try
>Kiel->Ruhr & Silesia supp Berlin->Munich?
Sil S Ber-Mun without Kie S Ber-Mun, seems pointless.
Sil-Boh would make as much, if not more sense.
>Nick, I am so weary. Do you think we have any
>chance of ERI staying together, or is this
>game over?
The game isn't over, but Italy's attitude and (not
entirely unjustified) paranoia, are challenges.
*Nick ponders the situation for a moment, and poses
a hypothetical question.*
How would you feel about my agreeing to France's
requests that I stab Italy and offering him
misinformation in the West that would get us
Ruhr and A Lon-Pic? Could we offset France's
eastern gains in the west, or force him to pull
back so that I can eliminate Italy? I haven't
looked at this possibility, yet, but perhaps we
should consider it.
Nick.
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>Now, now. I can't begin to come up with 14 reasons!
>Unless you are refering to my 14 units?
No, 14 was an arbitrary number. "Infinity" would have sufficed just as well.
> >> If I see any other moves for these two units in the fall
> >>results, game over. Period.
>
> >I will, due to the importance of this game, bite my tongue,
> >and not fire off the response that leaps to mind, but do
> >not threaten me again.
>It seems like once again I am missing all the fun. You mentioned a
>couple game years ago that I was missing some good press. (Any chance to
>summarize it now that it is old?). I imagine that I am missing some.
If you only knew what I have been living through. Doug knows, of
course. When I am dead and gone, perhaps someone will sprinkle a few
purple hearts over my grave. Or the Legion of Merit, or whatever you
French types give out to the honored dead.
I am so weary. Sorry I have not been much of a correspondent.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> >Can you live with Lvn->StP, Ukr->Gal, Bel hold, Vie S Ser->Trieste?
>
>Can we trust Roberto to order Sil S Ber-Mun and not
>Sil-War?
Yes, I do trust him to order Sil S ber-Mun, if I am in a position to offer
him some reassuring words.
> >Dare we risk Channel supp Belgium &
>London->North Sea->Denmark.
>
>I would think Bel S Lon-Pic would be a better move
>if we're going to take a risk.
That's a fine idea, and there is no risk. Nth supp Bel; Bel supp Lon->Pic;
Channel convoys Lon to Pic; Irish supp Channel. It's likely to fail, but
there is always that small chance. So unless I am overlooking something
major, please support London->Picardy.
> >France may assume that Munich is lost and try for Ruhr. Dare we try
> >Kiel->Ruhr & Silesia supp Berlin->Munich?
>
>Sil S Ber-Mun without Kie S Ber-Mun, seems pointless.
>Sil-Boh would make as much, if not more sense.
Yeah, I guess you are right. We will just have to live with the Frenchman
in Ruhr next spring.
> >Nick, I am so weary. Do you think we have any
> >chance of ERI staying together, or is this
> >game over?
>
>The game isn't over, but Italy's attitude and (not
>entirely unjustified) paranoia, are challenges.
You and Italy have each harmed the other. I've lost track of when it
started. It may have been with Italy's move to Warsaw a while ago, or it
may have been earlier. It is so hard to pull out of these situations.
>*Nick ponders the situation for a moment, and poses
>a hypothetical question.*
>How would you feel about my agreeing to France's
>requests that I stab Italy and offering him
>misinformation in the West that would get us
>Ruhr and A Lon-Pic?
I take hypothetical questions to be real questions!
Maybe I am not flexible enough, but I fear that leads to a quick French
victory. It's hard for me to go in that direction now, when I see that we
can stop France with just minimal cooperation between the three of us. If
we get Budapest and Munich this turn, then France has to destroy two
units. Probably Paris & Wes. That won't hurt him much, but the next one
will. Italy is incapable of getting stronger as France gets a little
weaker. You and I have to be beneficiaries.
I think we get Munich just by using Kiel and Silesia, and we get Budapest
if you support Italy's move. So many good things can happen if you, I, and
Italy make fully cooperative moves just one time.
The future doesn't change, though. I think there will come a time, not too
long from now, when taking out Italy will be very safe.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> I am trying to get Russia to agree on a set of moves that
> includes your request concerning Vienna and Ukraine.
>
The 'threat' is non-negotiable. I don't expect to have to repeat myself.
Idalia
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> You will take either Berlin, or Munich from me.
> You won't have to disband. The time has come
> for Mother Russia to regain her capital.
>
This is an accurate analysis and a reasonable conclusion.
>
> It would be more effective with Vie-Tyl to cut
> support.
>
No comment.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>Yes, I do trust him to order Sil S Ber-Mun,
Ok, I hope you're right. I'll order Vie S Ser-Tri,
Gal-Ukr as long as you understand that if Italy
orders Sil-War, I will throw the game to France.
>please support London->Picardy.
Agreed.
>You and Italy have each harmed the other. I've
>lost track of when it started. It may have been
>with Italy's move to Warsaw a while ago,
I believe that it was. 8-)
>I take hypothetical questions to be real questions!
Well, I suppose it was a real question, but a
hypothetical move set.
>Maybe I am not flexible enough, but I fear that leads to a quick French
>victory.
Fair enough. I didn't look at it in detail, but
I figured I'd run it up the flagpole, and see if
anyone saluted.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Gentlemen, we are in agreement. A piece of cake. We certainly are a
well-oiled machine, a model for all alliances. Excuse me while I go shoot
myself.
Just kidding. We ARE set.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Just kidding. We ARE set.
>
I assume these means that Silesia is supporting Berlin to Munich. Please
notify me ASAP if this is not correct.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Just to be sure, it is Silesia supp Berlin->Munich. No need to reply.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from England to Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
>Gentlemen, we are in agreement.
Just to be crystal clear. I will order Ukr-Gal,
Vie S Ser-Tri. If Italy orders Sil-War, rather
than Sil S Ber-Mun, however, I will spend the
remainder of the game attacking Italian Units
and Centers, and supporting French attacks on
Italian Units and Centers, until either Italy
is eliminated, or France solos.
Czar Nicholas II.
(Nick sets down his chainsaw...)
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Just to be crystal clear. I will order Ukr-Gal,
> Vie S Ser-Tri. If Italy orders Sil-War, rather
> than Sil S Ber-Mun, however, I will spend the
> remainder of the game attacking Italian Units
> and Centers, and supporting French attacks on
> Italian Units and Centers, until either Italy
> is eliminated, or France solos.
>
I hope we are even on threats now and able to move forward in a productive
fashion in future seasons.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Were you able to get Roberto to agree to Smy-Con,
Bla S Con-Bul? I don't want to see France
destroying Italian Fleets.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Were you able to get Roberto to agree to Smy-Con,
>Bla S Con-Bul? I don't want to see France
>destroying Italian Fleets.
Several different good possibilities were discussed, and we agreed that he
would make a final decision by himself.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >Were you able to get Roberto to agree to Smy-Con,
> >Bla S Con-Bul? I don't want to see France
> >destroying Italian Fleets.
>Several different good possibilities were discussed,
>and we agreed that he would make a final decision by himself.
And you agreed to this because he's made so many good
decisions in the past??? (Sorry, I just have severe
doubts about Roberto's commitment to stopping France.)
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>And you agreed to this because he's made so many good
>decisions in the past???
I agreed, because I wanted to demonstrate confidence in him.
> (Sorry, I just have severe
>doubts about Roberto's commitment to stopping France.)
He feels the same way about you. 8-) What we need (whether by luck or
fabulous cooperation) is a couple of good seasons. Will it happen?
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
My Okhrana agents in Paris have reported an Intelligence coup of some
significance, please contact me before the deadline if at all possible!
In Alliance,
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
I'm here for about another 15 minutes (7:15 Eastern).
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Reliable sources indicate that France is ordering
Tyl & Bur S Mun, so I reccomend changing to Sil-Boh,
Kie-Ruh, Ber-Kie, Nth S Lon-Bel.
Nick.
Message from France to all
My orders are in without wait,
do your worse
< maniacal laughter >
Le Dauphin
-------
PS: One things that has impressed me about this game
is how few late messages there have been. I compliment
each of us. If nothing else, that is a nice legacy for a
"showcase" game.
In appreciation,
France
Message from Italy to England and Russia
> Reliable sources indicate that France is ordering
> Tyl & Bur S Mun,
I'm a bit skeptical that France would divulge such reliable details of his
moves this turn.....to anybody. He's tried to get me to talk about moves
and ways to untangle our mess in Turkey. I, of course, have avoided
discussing troop movements of any kind with him.
> so I reccomend changing to Sil-Boh,
> Kie-Ruh, Ber-Kie, Nth S Lon-Bel.
I'm a bit confused with the order 'Nth s Lon-Bel'. You're not considering
retreating from Belgium are you? France can bounce the convoy in any number
of ways so keeping Belgium non-French this year would seem to be a priority.
If you meant Holland, then some of what I'm going to type later may not
apply.
The other moves, if indeed France was playing defensively this turn, are
quite powerful. We would not be able to dislodge Munich next year though
without first covering the retreats to Berlin and Silesia. [Admittedly, I'm
a bit torn by allowing him to retreat to Bohemia/Ruhr this turn if we are
successful in dislodging him]
If agreed to, Livonia could not go to STP to avoid England having to
disband. Moving to Prussia would be the correct move then to be in line for
Berlin next year so we could dislodge the French Munich.
Since I have only a single unit involved and I promised myself not to
second-guess your decisions in this area of the map, I will defer the
decision to Ivy. Currently, I have sil sup ber-mun. I will check my
messages approximately 15 minutes prior to the deadline and will change them
accordingly if given the go-ahead.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
> > Reliable sources indicate that France is ordering
> > Tyl & Bur S Mun,
>I'm a bit skeptical that France would divulge such
>reliable details of his moves this turn.....to anybody.
We've maintained a fairly constant conversation since
we were both struggling for survival in '02-'05. He
didn't tell me his orders, but he did say that he was
going to try to hold onto Mun, and Tyl & Bur S Mun is
the only way to do that. Could he be lying? Sure,
but it seems like an odd thing to lie about.
> > so I recommend changing to Sil-Boh,
> > Kie-Ruh, Ber-Kie, Nth S Lon-Bel.
>I'm a bit confused with the order 'Nth s Lon-Bel'. You're not considering
>retreating from Belgium are you? France can bounce the convoy in any
>number
>of ways
ECh C Lon-Bel, Nth S Lon-Bel, Iri S ECh, Lon-ECh-Bel,
can be bounced only by Bur & Pic -> Bel, in which case
I hold in Bel as a Beleaguered Garrison, otherwise, Lon
takes Bel, and I retreat to Hol.
>We would not be able to dislodge Munich next year though
>without first covering the retreats to Berlin and Silesia.
War-Pru, Gal-Sil next Spring, and we destroy FA Mun
in the Fall.
>If agreed to, Livonia could not go to STP to avoid England having to
>disband.
Bel should compensate for StP.
>I will defer the decision to Ivy.
Hopefully, he'll check mail before the deadline.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
We might wish to consider two things.
(1) Russia asked me (again) today if we should betray you this year.
(2) Later, he asked me if I knew your moves around the Black Sea.
This wonderful inside information is highly suspect. The proposed moves
would enable Russia to keep Berlin, would enable France to keep Munich, and
would enable Tyrolia to cover Trieste.
I think I can find French/Russian moves that would cause me to disband 1
and you to disband 2 units.
I suspect the odds are at least 50-50 that this is a set-up.
**************
But, what do we have to lose? If Russia is betraying us, then we were dead
anyway. This would just hasten the conclusion. Besides, can't we still
throw the game to France if this happens?
Isn't this a situation in which we have nothing to lose and something to gain?
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> (1) Russia asked me (again) today if we should betray you this year.
>
Not a surprise. He wants me eliminated in the worst way. Unforunately for
him, and unforunately for you, my elimination means French solo.
> (2) Later, he asked me if I knew your moves around the Black Sea.
Again, not a surprise. He's been too cozy with France for too long.
> This wonderful inside information is highly suspect.
Agreed. I don't believe them for an instant.
Quick prediction: Russia and France bounce in Galicia.
> The proposed moves would enable Russia to keep Berlin, would
> enable France to keep Munich, and would enable Tyrolia to cover Trieste.
Russia's suggested moves the past upteen years have only had his interests
in mind. These last minute changes are no different.
> I suspect the odds are at least 50-50 that this is a set-up.
You would make a poor Vegas odds maker (IMHO)
**************
> Isn't this a situation in which we have nothing to lose and something to
> gain?
Unbelievably, yes.
My Silesia order hasn't changed. Russia's orders shouldn't change because
of this. Write me privately in the next few minutes if you want me to
change it. I don't think we need to inform Russia of the change.
Might even be better to tell him that we didn't change and then change
anyway.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
>> Isn't this a situation in which we have nothing to lose and something to
>> gain?
>
>Unbelievably, yes.
Sad, that it comes down to this.
Make the change. Move Silesia->Bohemia.
There is a small chance we might gain by this. If not, we should be able
to get the troops home by Christmas. My conscience is clear. I've licked
no boots.
Ivy
England: Army Berlin → Munich (*bounce*)
England: Fleet English Channel CONVOY Army London → Picardy
England: Fleet Irish Sea SUPPORT Fleet English Channel
England: Army Kiel SUPPORT Army Berlin → Munich
England: Army London → English Channel → Picardy (*bounce*)
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Russian Fleet Belgium
France: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Smyrna
France: Army Albania SUPPORT Russian Army Vienna → Trieste
France: Fleet Brest → English Channel (*bounce*)
France: Army Budapest → Rumania
France: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) → Constantinople (*bounce, dislodged*)
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Munich
France: Fleet Eastern Mediterranean → Smyrna
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean SUPPORT Fleet Brest → English Channel
France: Army Munich SUPPORT Italian Army Silesia (*cut*)
France: Army Paris SUPPORT Army Picardy
France: Army Picardy HOLD
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Army Munich
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Italy: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Italy: Army Rumania → Budapest (*bounce, dislodged*)
Italy: Army Serbia → Trieste (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Silesia SUPPORT English Army Berlin → Munich
Italy: Fleet Smyrna → Constantinople
Russia: Fleet Belgium SUPPORT English Army London → Picardy
Russia: Army Livonia → St Petersburg
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT French Army Budapest → Rumania
Russia: Army Vienna → Trieste
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