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Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
My apologies. It seems that I've been played for
a sucker, and I fell for it.
Nick.
Message from France to England, Italy, and Russia
I can't seem to get to my e-mail account. I am sending this note via
another route, but cannot get messages. I am not sure what is wrong and
when it will be fixed.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France, Italy, and Russia
OK, I'll bite. I am now setting draw.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>My apologies. It seems that I've been played for
>a sucker, and I fell for it.
Restrain. Restrain.
**********************
I was surprised a bit by your retreat orders. As I was opening them, I
rather expected to see three disbands to make France's victory easier. Is
the survival instinct still present?
I can support you into Munich, if you wish, with both Berlin and
Ruhr. Russia could cover Kiel (in exchange for Belgium). If I have to
retreat from Ruhr, I can then retreat to Holland. If we take Munich, then
France would have to come up with nine supply centers in the
southeast. That might not be so easy.
All this assumes that you feel you are willing to fight on.
I haven't written to Russia yet. It is possible that this is just one more
attempt to "cooperate" for the purpose of learning your moves.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> My apologies. It seems that I've been played for a sucker, and I fell
> for it.
Could you be a little more specific? What were you expecting this turn
that didn't happen?
If we take Munich, with Italian help, then France will need nine centers in
the southeast. That might not be so easy.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
See I told you that tactics was not my strength. I
thought I had the convoy to Belgium stopped. Like a
goofball I assumed that it was going through the North
Sea and support by the Channel. Nice job.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
>I have the Steelers Kicker on my team. Can you go talk to him and make
>certain that he stops missing so many FGs and for goodness sake, no
>missed extra points! :-)
Having Chris Brown has probably helped you a little. He has missed a lot,
but he has also made a lot. The Steelers are horrible in close and usually
have to settle for field goal attempts. Against the Jets, we were in
scoring range 7 times. One TD, 6 FG attempts.
>PS: I will be curious as to what gave my identity away?
I am only guessing and I could be wrong. I just matched your personality
with the personality of someone who did something thoughtful. Is that
vague enough to keep me out of jail and specific enough to answer your
question?
Ivy
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>See I told you that tactics was not my strength. I
>thought I had the convoy to Belgium stopped. Like a
>goofball I assumed that it was going through the North
>Sea and support by the Channel. Nice job.
It hardly matters much. Belgium was Russia's, of course.
Russia seems to be indicating that you did not move as you led him to
believe. Is that so?
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> > It seems that I've been played for a sucker, > and I fell for it.
>Could you be a little more specific? What were you expecting this turn
>that didn't happen?
Alb S Tri-Ser, Rum S Mos-Sev was agreed to and mo.
>If we take Munich, with Italian help, then France
>will need nine centers in the southeast. That
>might not be so easy.
What makes you think we'll get any Italian help?
Sil-Ber, Gal retreats to Boh, suggests that Roberto
is doing everything in his power to keep Mun French.
Gal-Bud, Ser-Gre would have been anti-French. Even
if Italy helps France this Fall, a French Solo is
not a sure thing, but I don't think we can count on
any Italian help in stopping him. Still offering
Ber S Sil-Mun can't hurt, I suppose.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>What makes you think we'll get any Italian help?
>Sil-Ber, Gal retreats to Boh, suggests that Roberto
>is doing everything in his power to keep Mun French.
Roberto wanted me to move Kiel->Ruhr & Berlin->Kiel along with his
Silesia->Berlin & Galicia->Bohemia, so we could make an all out assault on
Munich in the fall. I told him that I was indeed moving Kiel->Ruhr, but
that I could not promise Berlin->Kiel. As you know, you wanted Kiel open
for your Holland fleet. Also, I did not want to cross you, because you
were a more hopeful partner for the remainder of this increasingly weird game.
So I do believe that Roberto intended to take Munich, not protect it.
On the other hand, I have no idea if it will ever be possible for you and
Italy to work together again in titleist. Perhaps indirectly with me as a
go-between.
I wrote him and am waiting to hear from him. I have no idea how he will
respond to your "apology" -- with restraint? with mockery? with
kindness? This will be a test of his maturity.
Is Diplomacy a great game, or what?
Ivy
Message from Master to all
Unless I misunderstood a 'press to m' by someone, everyone agrees
to switch to non-anonymous. I'll reveal identities for all seven
players in a couple of hours (giving the four of you a chance to say
"wait, wait, that's not what I said!").
Glad to put identity-policing behind me,
Doug
Message from France to England, Italy, and Russia
Although I have access, my e-mail is extremely slow, 5
minutes or more per click of the mouse. I will probably
not be able to do much until tonight. Sorry.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to all
>Unless I misunderstood a 'press to m' by someone, everyone agrees
>to switch to non-anonymous. I'll reveal identities for all seven
>players in a couple of hours
Doug, please include addresses and times when players will be home alone.
Ivy Wingo (my real name)
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >What makes you think we'll get any Italian help?
> >Sil-Ber, Gal retreats to Boh, suggests that Roberto
> >is doing everything in his power to keep Mun French.
>Roberto wanted me to move Kiel->Ruhr & Berlin->Kiel along with his
>Silesia->Berlin & Galicia->Bohemia,
>so we could make an all out assault on Munich in the
>fall. I told him that I was indeed moving Kiel->Ruhr,
>but that I could not promise Berlin->Kiel. As you know, you wanted Kiel
>open for your Holland fleet.
Ah, ok. I didn't actually want Hol open for my Fleet.
I just saw that as the only way to block the French
retreat from Munich. Hmmm, it's funny how a little
information can completely change your interpretation
of a set of moves.
>I do believe that Roberto intended to take Munich,
>not protect it.
I hope you're more correct about Roberto than I was
about Xavier. 8-)
>I have no idea if it will ever be possible for you
>and Italy to work together again in titleist
I'm a realist. Stopping the French Solo is more
important than any animosity I have toward Italy.
If Italy moves Sil-Mun this Fall, I will be
thankful, and happy.
>I have no idea how he will respond to your "apology"
> -- with restraint? with mockery? with kindness? This will be a test of
>his maturity.
As long as he attacks France, he can be as immature
as he cares to be. 8-)
>Is Diplomacy a great game, or what?
Umm, can I wait until after the Fall moves to answer
that question? ;^}
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Nick, Roberto,
So here we are again. The three amigos. United once more. Or not.
I'm not sure we are capable of much. Our mistrust of each other is firmly
grounded in history and fully justified.
Given our miserable record, I offer a very limited goal. No more dreams of
pushing France back toward equality with subsequent, private hopes that
someone might then be eliminated. I suggest that we try to halt France in
any way possible and hope for a 4-way draw. Let him have his 14 or 15 or
16 units. We cannot reduce him without one or more of us feeling insecure.
If I can be trusted a little, I volunteer to help coordinate some tactics.
still Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> >My apologies. It seems that I've been played for
> >a sucker, and I fell for it.
>
> Restrain. Restrain.
>
He who laughs first rarely laughs last.
> **********************
>
> I was surprised a bit by your retreat orders. As I was
> opening them, I rather expected to see three disbands
> to make France's victory easier.
>
I almost disbanded the fleet but when I realized France didn't have enough
units to cover ANK,CON,SER,and BUL without risking BUD and RUM, I figured
the fleet could be of use in supporting RUM this fall. I fully intend to
disband the fleet during the winter.
> Is the survival instinct still present?
>
Not really, but at least I went down fighting.
>
> It is possible that this is just one more
> attempt to "cooperate" for the purpose of learning your moves.
>
Just a hint, if I tell you my moves, there is a 50-50 chance that I'm
totally lying to you. Still want to know?
Roberto
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> My apologies. It seems that I've been played for
> a sucker, and I fell for it.
>
No apologies necessary. You did what you thought was correct at the time.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Just a hint, if I tell you my moves, there is a 50-50 chance that I'm
>totally lying to you. Still want to know?
Oh sure.
I don't know what would do in your position. The choices aren't
great. You can play for a reasonable chance for a 4-way (big whoop!) or
get some satisfaction from Russia's fate (and alas, mine as well).
I think I now believe that it was Russia who didn't agree to the draw.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> If I can be trusted a little, I volunteer to help coordinate
> some tactics.
>
I will be honest. I will not publicly agree to any set of orders. I will
listen to what the two of you have to say. I will not suggest orders. I
will not debate the validity of orders. I do not guarantee that I would
abide by any agreed upon set of orders.
That is the way I feel today. Things have a weird way of changing in my
mind these days though as I get more and more sleep.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from England to Russia and Italy in 'titleist':
>So here we are again. The three amigos. United once more. Or not.
>I'm not sure we are capable of much. Our mistrust of each other is firmly
>grounded in history and fully justified.
At this level of play, we should be capable of
setting aside our past differences, in order to stop
a Solo bid.
>I volunteer to help coordinate some tactics.
I can agree to this.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England
Truth is, I really don't have a clue how I will move yet. I will listen to
what you and Russia have to say but I will also be coordinating with France
at the same time. It's a gamble both sides are going to have to take I
guess.
Roberto
ps: In this particular game, a 4-way draw with the fewest number of units on
the board equals a loss in my mind. No better or no worse than Austria,
Germany, or Turkey.
Message from England to Italy
>Truth is, I really don't have a clue how I will move yet. I will listen to
>what you and Russia have to say but I will also be coordinating with France
>at the same time. It's a gamble both sides are going to have to take I
>guess.
Fine by me. My expectations for titleist were lowered a long time ago.
>ps: In this particular game, a 4-way draw with the fewest number of units on
>the board equals a loss in my mind. No better or no worse than Austria,
>Germany, or Turkey.
I agree that a 4-way is pretty lousy. However, I would rather observers
see that I attempted to stop a solo than have them see that I assisted a solo.
Anyway, I have no idea when I might be able to recommend moves. I have a
major obligation this evening.
Que sera, and all of that.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I can live with Roberto's attitude for now. Let's give him a chance to
come around.
I did tell him that, although a 4-way is a lousy result, I would rather
observers see me attempt to stop a solo than see me assist a solo.
I have a major commitment this evening. I may not be available to discuss
moves until tomorrow.
still Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> However, I would rather observers see that I attempted
> to stop a solo than have them see that I assisted a solo.
>
Point taken. Another reason for the lack of disbands.
> Anyway, I have no idea when I might be able to recommend
> moves. I have a major obligation this evening.
>
No problem. Almost three full days before the next deadline. I'm in no
hurry.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>I will be honest. I will not publicly agree to any set of orders. I will
>listen to what the two of you have to say. I will not suggest orders. I
>will not debate the validity of orders. I do not guarantee that I would
>abide by any agreed upon set of orders.
Well, thank you for your honesty, and for agreeing to
listen to us, Roberto, but frankly, that does not seem
to give us a chance to stop France. Could you perhaps
discuss options with Ivy, come to an agreement and then
present just my moves to me? Mun, Ser, Bud, and Rum
are all possible targets for us, it seems to me, while
Tri, Vie, Bul, Sev, and Ank are all at risk.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
> Could you perhaps discuss options with Ivy,
>
That is certainly a distinct possibility. I have privately discussed
matters with Ivy this morning and I believe he understands my position.
Basically, all I am saying is that if, in my mind, France offers up a better
option, I will take it.
Since I'm a mathematical, odds player type of guy, I'd say there is a 40%
chance I would follow ER plans, a 40% chance I'd follow France's plans, and
a 20% chance I'll march to the beat of my own drummer. These numbers will
flucuate up and down as negotiations progress.
Last turn, I attacked all remaining powers and was attacked by all remaining
powers. I owe no favors and am owed no favors. The slate is clean. I urge
you to do your best to retain my services.
Roberto
Message from Master to all
Okay, here it is:
Austria: Randy Hudson
England: Allen Schweinsberg
France: Roger Yonkoski
Germany: Rich Olver
Italy: Ken Lofgren
Russia: Eric Hunter
Turkey: Jeff Stephens
Feel free to continue using your assumed names or address each other
by name.
FWIW, the observers to this game (primarily Karlis Povisils and Jim
Burgess, I think) have had Allen, Roger, and Eric picked out for
quite some time. Of course, they were actually *trying* to do so.
Doug
Message from Russia to all
>Broadcast message from Master in 'titleist':
>Okay, here it is:
>Austria: Randy Hudson
>England: Allen Schweinsberg
>France: Roger Yonkoski
>Germany: Rich Olver
>Italy: Ken Lofgren
>Russia: Eric Hunter
>Turkey: Jeff Stephens
Does this mean the semifinal results will finally be
revealed??? 8-)
Eric.
Message from England to Master
Doug,
After all that wait, this feels rather anticlimactic.
What about my semifinal? Is that information still off-limits?
Allen
>Austria: Randy Hudson
>England: Allen Schweinsberg
>France: Roger Yonkoski
>Germany: Rich Olver
>Italy: Ken Lofgren
>Russia: Eric Hunter
>Turkey: Jeff Stephens
Message from Master to all
In this era of glasnost, one or more players have requested that the
semi-final games be revealed. I'll do so, again, by unanimous private
vote only.
Doug
Message from England to Master
Fine by me.
Allen
>In this era of glasnost, one or more players have requested that the
>semi-final games be revealed. I'll do so, again, by unanimous private
>vote only.
>
>Doug
Message from Master to all
usin@thekleimans.com said:
>In this era of glasnost, one or more players have requested that the
>semi-final games be revealed. I'll do so, again, by unanimous private
>vote only.
Vetoed!
Doug
Message from Russia to England and Italy
> Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>
> Basically, all I am saying is that if, in my mind, France offers up a
better
> option, I will take it.
I'm not sure under what circumstances losing to a solo is better than
sharing
in a draw, but you're free to assign result values as you see fit.
> Since I'm a mathematical, odds player type of guy, I'd say there is a 40%
> chance I would follow ER plans, a 40% chance I'd follow France's plans,
> and a 20% chance I'll march to the beat of my own drummer.
I see this as a 60% chance of a French solo.
> I urge you to do your best to retain my services.
Work with us, you have a chance at a draw, work with France, or do your
own thing and France Solos. I can't do better than that, but perhaps Ivy
can.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>if, in my mind, France offers up a better
>option, I will take it.
>I'd say there is a 40% chance I would follow ER plans,
>a 40% chance I'd follow France's plans, and
>a 20% chance I'll march to the beat of my own drummer.
Worst-case Scenario: Franco-Italian Cooperation:
Sil S Mun-Ber, Boh S Bur-Mun (takes Ber, hold Mun, +1)
Tyl-Vie, Bud S Ser-Tri (takes Vie, Tri, loses Bud, +1)
Bla S Rum, Con-Ank, Aeg-Con) (takes Con, Ank, +2)
14 +1 +1 +2 = 18. French Victory, Italy survives with
3 or 4 Centers.
Best-Case Scenario: EIR Cooperation:
Sil S Ber-Mun, Boh-Tyl, Bel S Ruh-Bur, Hol-Kie (takes
Mun and probably destroys A Mun)
We hold Tri, Vie, Bul, Ank, and take Rum, Bud, while
France takes Ser, and Con. France lose one Center,
Italy loses three, you gain two, I gain one.
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>Russia seems to be indicating that you did not move as you led him to
>believe. Is that so?
Yes.
I moved as I originally told him that I was going to move. He of course
modified my plan. I argeed to it but kept my orders as originally
stated. It was easier than arguing with him.
I suspect that this season we will not have to argue at all as there
will be no discussion :-) I guess this is too bad, but I deserve it.
--Prince Boar
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Work with us, you have a chance at a draw, work with France,
> or do your own thing and France Solos.
>
And this is different than what EI have been telling you for several
turns how?
Can you provide me with one single solitary substantitive reason why I
should believe you now? Or is this just another part of your charade to
get Italy eliminated?
Face facts, you may have crossed a line you didn't want to cross. Lord
knows I've probably crossed several along the way which led to 'ukr supp
rum-bud' (which by the way is a fine example of working collaboratively
to prevent a French solo).
> I see this as a 60% chance of a French solo.
Actually, the odds are much higher since even if EIR tried to prevent a
French solo, the chances of us succeeding now are not 40%.
Part of what is driving my negotiations at this point is I'm quite
intrigued by how you planned to stop the French solo if Italy was eliminated
or attempted to throw the game. I would rather enjoy watching how that
would come about. It would be a fine exercise in tactics if you could
actually pull it off. Something I could learn from and use in future
contests.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Italy
> Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
> > Work with us, you have a chance at a draw, work with France,
> > or do your own thing and France Solos.
> And this is different than what EI have been telling you for several
> turns how?
It's different because the theoretical French Solo is now close to being
an unstoppable reality.
> Can you provide me with one single solitary substantitive reason why I
> should believe you now? Or is this just another part of your charade to
> get Italy eliminated?
Two reasons, actually. This Spring, France agreed to order Alb S Tri-Ser,
Rum S Mos-Sev. He ordered neither.
> Face facts, you may have crossed a line you didn't want to cross.
That would be the line where you stop playing rationally, correct?
> > I see this as a 60% chance of a French solo.
> Actually, the odds are much higher since even if EIR tried to prevent a
> French solo, the chances of us succeeding now are not 40%.
Nonsense. IF EIR cooperate, France will not Solo. Indeed, he's likely
to actually lose a Center this year. I will grant that the odds of EIR
actually
cooperating are not good, particularly given your attitude, but the tactics
of EIR vs. F are not that difficult, at this point.
> Part of what is driving my negotiations at this point is I'm quite
> intrigued by how you planned to stop the French solo if Italy was
eliminated
> or attempted to throw the game. I would rather enjoy watching how that
> would come about. It would be a fine exercise in tactics if you could
> actually pull it off. Something I could learn from and use in future
> contests.
I, somewhat foolishly, believed Roger when he said he was more interested
in seeing you eliminated than in soloing himself, at this point, and I
thought he
understood that I would accept a four-way before letting him win. It seems
I was wrong on both counts, so my "plans" for stopping the French solo, no
longer are at issue. Throwing this game to learn that I was wrong, seems
like one of the more foolish reasons for giving up and quitting that I have
ever heard of.
In Frustration,
Nick.
Message from France to England, Italy, and Russia
I again cannot get to my e-mail account! I am now
connected from yahoo. I should be able to get mail
there now. Anything sent last night or early this
morning, I have not seen. I am sorry for filling your
mailbox with problems concerning my e-mail.
France
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Nick, Roberto,
>Since I'm a mathematical, odds player type of guy
[Smile] I am a mathematics professor at Bucknell University in Lewisburg, PA.
> > > I see this as a 60% chance of a French solo.
>
> > Actually, the odds are much higher since even if EIR tried to prevent a
> > French solo, the chances of us succeeding now are not 40%.
>
>Nonsense. IF EIR cooperate, France will not Solo. Indeed, he's likely
>to actually lose a Center this year.
I am having considerable difficulty finding good moves in the southeast and
find myself thinking that it might be too late to stop France. If we take
and keep Munich, then France has the 5 natural French centers plus the 4
natural Italian centers and needs 9 in the southeast. If he gets all of
Turkey, plus Greece, Trieste, Bulgaria, and Serbia, then that's seven. We
would need to keep two of Vienna, Budapest, Rumania. That would seem to
give us a chance. Also, we can make it very difficult for France to get
Ankara.
But, when I look at details, the news is not so good. It is very tempting
to suggest Moscow->Sevastopol->Armenia, but that costs Roberto the loss of
Sevastopol and another unit (permanently). Perhaps we can delay that move
one turn if Roberto orders Black->Ankara. That may not be the best move
for other reasons, though. Even without losing Sevastopol, I worry that
Roberto is going to lose strength this year. I wish to support him into
Munich, where even with one unit he could last forever. But the southeast
boggles my poor mind. There is a huge amount of guesswork that will have
to go into moves down there.
As of this typing all I can promise is that I will look hard and long at
the position either this afternoon or this evening. In the meantime please
share ideas jointly or privately.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Best-Case Scenario: EIR Cooperation:
...
>Italy loses three, you gain two, I gain one.
[laugh] That's cooperation? Italy losing three?
Quite seriously, I think Italy will lose something no matter what we
do. And that will make him all the less willing to cooperate
afterwards. If you can suggest some moves, I would be grateful. I do
think that we need to take Munich with Silesia.
Also I fear that France will see that Munich is hopeless and that he will
order Burgundy supp Munich->Ruhr. If he gets Ruhr in the process of losing
Munich, we still have a struggle on our hands up there.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from England to Russia and Italy in 'titleist':
> >Since I'm a mathematical, odds player type of guy
>[Smile] I am a mathematics professor at Bucknell University
>in Lewisburg, PA.
(Geeze, I live in Harrisburg, and Rod Spade is just south
of me in Lancaster. (Anyone for a F2F game? 8-) )
> > > if EIR tried to prevent a French solo, > > the chances of us
>succeeding now are not 40%.
> > Nonsense. IF EIR cooperate, France will not Solo. > Indeed, he's likely
>to actually lose a Center this year.
>I find myself thinking that it might be too late to
>stop France. If we take and keep Munich, then France
>has the 5 natural French centers plus the 4 natural
>Italian centers and needs 9 in the southeast.
Yes, but seven of His Units and two of his Home Centers
are locked down defending France. He lacks the forces
and the growth potential to take and hold 9 Centers in
the Southeast, if we cooperate against him.
>It is very tempting to suggest Moscow->Sevastopol->Armenia,
>but that costs Roberto the loss of Sevastopol and another
>unit (permanently). Perhaps we can delay that move
>one turn if Roberto orders Black->Ankara. That may not be
>the best move for other reasons, though. Even without
>losing Sevastopol, I worry that Roberto is going to lose
>strength this year.
Stopping France is more important than trying to keep
Roberto from losing Units, in my opinion.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Stopping France is more important than trying to keep
>Roberto from losing Units, in my opinion.
Another wonderful laugh. Nick is all heart.
He also carries grudges for a long time. He will be upset with France for
the rest of this game.
I really don't know if France can be stopped. We'll see. I'll let you
know if I have any moves to recommend. If so, do as you think best.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >Best-Case Scenario: EIR Cooperation:
...
>>Italy loses three, you gain two, I gain one.
>[laugh] That's cooperation? Italy losing three?
*chuckle* Well, since France loses a Center as well,
yes, I would call that cooperation. You'll forgive
me if I don't view maintaining Italy's Center Count
as an important goal of Russian Foreign Policy.
Realistically, Rum is the easiest French Center for
us to take in the South, and F Bla is better off
defending Ank or taking Con, than it is covering
Sev, so that means Mos-Sev is likely to give me
Sev. From an alliance perspective, it's a gain,
rather than a loss, if for no other reason than it
allows us to deny France Turkey over the next couple
of years.
>If you can suggest some moves, I would be grateful.
I'll see what I can come up with.
>I do think that we need to take Munich with Silesia.
That's fine. It exposes us to an FI stab, but I don't
see Roberto actively throwing the game at this point.
>I fear that France will see that Munich is hopeless
>and that he will order Burgundy supp Munich->Ruhr.
Ber S Sil-Mun, Boh-Tyl, Nth S ECh-Bel, Ruh S Bel-Bur,
Hol-Kie seems foolproof.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> Stopping France is more important than trying to keep
> Roberto from losing Units, in my opinion.
>
I am not of the mind to participate in a stop France campaign if the outcome
of the game would then be an EFR 3-way draw. Earlier in the game, yes; but
not now.
If you want my cooperation Nick, and I firmly believe that you do, you're
going to have to find it in your heart to figure out a way where I don't
disband this turn. That probably means you're going to have to give
something up.
I have a suggested set of moves from France. I await the ER entry in the
What-will-Italy-do-this-turn contest.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy and Russia
>If you want my cooperation Nick, and I firmly believe that you do, you're
>going to have to find it in your heart to figure out a way where I don't
>disband this turn. That probably means you're going to have to give
>something up.
I promise to do my best to try to come up with Italian moves, but
unfortunately the southeast situation is such a mess that it is impossible
to *guarantee* that you won't have t disband. The northeast is
easy. Silesia can take Munich.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> I promise to do my best to try to come up with Italian moves, but
> unfortunately the southeast situation is such a mess that it
> is impossible to *guarantee* that you won't have to disband.
> The northeast is easy. Silesia can take Munich.
>
If there's a will, there's a way.
sil-war
boh-mun
bul-rum
Budapest can be held.
There are other combinations available as well. When doing the moves, take
into account 3 out of 4 of SER,BUL,CON,ANK lost with the 4th lost next year.
That means I would need BUD plus two more this turn.
I think it might be worthwhile to attempt to dislodge RUM without giving it
a retreat even at the expense of losing ANK.
Depending on the board, I may not request a replacement for the 4th center
next year and may be willing to disband in 1913 (doubtful, but it's
possible).
The goal is to once again put me in a position where the loss of a single
Italian unit gives France a forced win. This pretty much means Russia
cannot build again and probably means he's going to have to accept a disband
or two.
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
>
> I think it might be worthwhile to attempt to dislodge RUM
> without giving it a retreat
>
Same goes for Munich.
He can't rebuild them all.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Roberto Wrote >
> > Stopping France is more important than trying to keep > Roberto from
>losing Units, in my opinion.
>I am not of the mind to participate in a stop France campaign if the >
>outcome of the game would then be an EFR 3-way draw.
I understand that. I'm not proposing that you
sacrifice Centers for that good of the cause, only
that we choose the "best orders" for stopping France,
rather than crafting our orders to protect your
Center-count first, and harm France second.
>you're going to have to find it in your heart to figure out a way where I
>don't disband this turn. That probably means you're going
>to have to give something up.
I did not support France into your Centers this Spring,
nor did I suggest the moves you and France made that
has you down a Center at the moment. My responsibility
is not to save you from your own mistakes; it is to stop
France from winning the game.
>I have a suggested set of moves from France. I await
>the ER entry in the What-will-Italy-do-this-turn contest.
Given that you are suggesting moves to France, why
don't you suggest a set to us? Why should we share
any information with you at all, when it seems you
are working more closely with France than you are
with us? If you want a share of the draw, then
work to make it happen, otherwise stop wasting my
time with this, "I'll throw the game to France, if
you're not nice to me!", nonsense.
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> I understand that. I'm not proposing that you
> sacrifice Centers for that good of the cause, only
> that we choose the "best orders" for stopping France,
> rather than crafting our orders to protect your
> Center-count first, and harm France second.
>
This I can agree to.
Roberto
--------------------------------------------------------
>
> I did not support France into your Centers this Spring,
> nor did I suggest the moves you and France made that
> has you down a Center at the moment.
>
Than I am asking for my center back that you took from me in Fall 1911. You
remember, the season you did support France into one of my centers. You
have the center back I took from you in Spring 1909. I'm just asking for
equality.
> My responsibility is not to save you from your own mistakes;
> it is to stop France from winning the game.
And this included defending Vienna this spring correct?
I'm still awaiting a thank you from Russia for actually defending HIS center
for him.
My mistakes? Let's see. If I stop France from getting CON then I lose SEV.
I lost Serbia but gained Budapest. Hmmmm, you got a set of moves in your
bag that I could have made this spring to do better than what I did?
You have been reminding me of my mistakes for several years now. Allow me
to remind you that the brunt of my disbands the last few years are a direct
result of a series of lies from your fingertips. Thus, my responsibility is
not to save you from your lies; it is to punish you for them.
> >I have a suggested set of moves from France. I await
> >the ER entry in the What-will-Italy-do-this-turn contest.
>
> Given that you are suggesting moves to France, why
> don't you suggest a set to us?
>
Re-read what I wrote. I have a suggested set of moves FROM France. I am
not suggesting moves to him.
> Why should we share
> any information with you at all, when it seems you
> are working more closely with France than you are
> with us?
>
Do you want a draw or not? If yes, you have no choice but to deal with me,
my attitude, and the crazed irrational Idalia.
Other than that, France's set of moves HAS OPTIONS. Without information
from ER, how can I make sure France selects the correct option (or incorrect
option depending on which side of the fence you are on)?
Idalia
Message from Italy to England
Is it just me or is Nick not only a liar but also a hypocrite?
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
>
> Message from France to Italy in 'titleist':
>
> Roberto:
>
> Recent discussions with Russia may make it possible
> for one of our bets for #18 to pay off. He bascially
> wants me to focus on eliminating your units and let
> him have most of your centers. If he moved as I would
> guess based on what he asks me to do, we may get that
> #18 (with my proposed orders).
>
What do you think to odds are that France is pulling my chain?
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
I have had trouble responding today. I've been working on this message for
5 hours -- 60 seconds at a time. Sort of. I am giving a final exam
tomorrow from 8-11 a.m. and am holding office hours today from 1 to 5. I
have had a constant stream of students in my office and I am getting
nothing else done. So this is written in fragments.
>Is it just me or is Nick not only a liar but also a hypocrite?
I don't know. He is so emotional, and therefore it is very difficult for
me to understand him. Working with him has been very draining. It is very
frustrating to exert so much effort only to see failure approaching.
*****************
> If yes, you have no choice but to deal with me, my attitude, and the
> crazed irrational Idalia.
I've thought about this in previous turns. That is, I have thought about
walking away from my role, whatever that is, and request that you and
Russia decide what to do. Just you and Russia. It's sort of a "sink or
swim, I don't care anymore" approach, but I can't take much more mediation.
What do you think?
******************************
>What do you think to odds are that France is pulling my chain?
I think France is trying get #18, if that is what you mean.
************
>If there's a will, there's a way.
>
>sil-war
>boh-mun
>bul-rum
>
>Budapest can be held.
Whew. Silesia->Warsaw may be a deal breaker. If you must go for a Russian
center, maybe Budapest supp Bohemia->Vienna. That pulls your units to the
south. The catch is that Tyrolia would have to be cut from Trieste instead
of Bohemia so that Munich will fall, and Russia probably won't want to do this.
I do know that we can destroy the army in Munich unless France actually
retreats Burgundy or Tyrolia. By the same token I wouldn't be surprised if
he attempts to destroy your fleet in Bulgaria.
I expect to be available tomorrow afternoon and evening.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I have not heard from you? I hope that you are doing well.
See you on the otherside of tonight.
--Prince Boar
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>Your suggestion of how to save Ruhr while taking
>Munich risks the Channel, but I think it is worth it
I considered that, but figured that as France has
to defend Bur and Pic against possible attacks, a
supported attack on ECh was unlikely.
>I am thinking about stepping aside and asking you
>and Italy to work out your differences. What do you think?
I was actually planning to respond to the latest
Italian missive by saying that I would offer my
ideas to you, and listen favorabley to whatever
you reccommend. His passive-agressive attitude
is too frustrating for me to deal with, anymore.
Perhaps you could ask him what France suggested,
and use that in planning.
>Harrisburg, huh!
Yup. Small world, aye?
Nick.
Message from Italy to England
>
> I've thought about this in previous turns. That is, I have
> thought about walking away from my role, whatever that is,
> and request that you and Russia decide what to do. Just
> you and Russia. It's sort of a "sink or swim, I don't care
> anymore" approach, but I can't take much more mediation.
>
> What do you think?
>
I think you've done a fine job in the role of mediator. It would have
worked, except apparently Nick was reading the wrong page, in the wrong
chapter, in the wrong book.
I also think you should reduce your role as mediator and spend some time
with your family and friends during the holiday season. No reasonable man
should have this hanging over his head.
>
> Whew. Silesia->Warsaw may be a deal breaker.
>
Didn't mean it that way. Sorry. Those were just examples of how not to
force an Italian disband. I would not and am not advocating for Silesia to
Warsaw.
> By the same token I wouldn't be surprised if he attempts to
> destroy your fleet in Bulgaria.
>
How much are you willing to gamble this turn? Sounds like a stupid
question, but I'm serious.
France and I have agreed to a set of orders. My orders are entered without
wait. The moves are a virtual lock to give France 18. I can come up with a
set of orders that would counter these moves quite nicely. They require
Nick to fully and completely obey to the letter.
The counter moves are as follows:
hol - kie
tri - vie
gal - rum
mos - sev
ukr - sev
lvn hold (next year lvn-mos-sev)
Assure him that he will still own 6 centers and have 1 build. You can even
add that you would advocate for Mos-Sev-Arm next year. Most likely I would
want VIE or TRI in return but we can bang our heads against the wall next
spring if we make it that far.
I would also suggest to you the following:
ruh - bur
ber - kie
There are no counter moves for you to make progress in the west. Yes, I am
not asking for support into Munich.
You'd bounce Russia in Kiel but I'd rather have you building in England
proper than another Russian unit in STP. [note, Russia would still get a
build]
All of this is predicated on the hope that France will do as he has said he
will. I have very little choice but to believe him.
It is absolutely imperative for my survival, and alas your fate, that I not
disband this turn. If Russia supports himself to either SEV or RUM this
turn, it is for sure that I will have to remove a unit. The fewer units I
have, the less opportunity I have to assist. The less opportunity I have to
assist, the more likely a French solo becomes. Regardless of what Nick
thinks, he cannot replace the loss of my units fast enough.
I have spent virtually the last 24 hours diploming and studying the map.
These suggestions are not off the cuff. They are very well thought out.
I intentionally left out my troop movements. I apologize in advance for
that.
One last thought. If I betray France this turn, I am fairly confident I
will be eliminated. My only glimmer of hope would be that you would not
assist in the dislodgement of Italian army Munich. I only consider
betraying France out of respect for your play throughout the game.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
> > I'm proposing that we choose the "best orders" for > stopping France,
>rather than crafting our orders > to protect your Center-count first, [or
>my Center
> > count, for that matter.
>This I can agree to.
Thank you.
>I'm still awaiting a thank you from Russia for actually defending HIS
>center for him.
Since I didn't ask you to do it, I interpreted it as
an attack, which the French move from Tyl-Ven was
defending against, at my request.
>If I stopped France from getting CON then I'd lose SEV.
Perhaps. Given France's betrayal, I could have moved
on to Arm to help you retake Smy, or you could have
supported Smy-Rum, and destroyed the French Army there.
>my responsibility is not to save you from your lies;
>it is to punish you for them.
You're free to try to throw the game to France, or you
can work with Ivy and I to stop France, and stand a
decent chance to share of a four-way draw, but you have
to decide which makes more sense at this point. For
the mathmatically minded, the choice seems obvious.
>I have a suggested set of moves FROM France.
Sorry, I would write this as, "France has suggested
moves to me." Would you care to share France's
suggestions with Ivy, so that he can use them in his
planning? It would make our response more effective.
>Do you want a draw or not? If yes, you have no
>choice but to deal with me, my attitude,
Oh, I'd be willing to bet that France would delay his
solo long enough to see you eliminated, and your
attitude tempts me to propose just that to him. The
question is do YOU want a draw or not? If you do,
then make a contribution toward accomplishing it.
>France's set of moves HAS OPTIONS. Without information
>from ER, how can I make sure France selects the correct
>option (or incorrect option depending on which side of
>the fence you are on)?
You could act like an ally, and share that information
with Ivy, so that he could craft the most effective
response. Then you'd actually get useful information
from ER. How about it, care to work toward the goal?
I'm going to offer my best guess moves to Ivy, and let
him synthesize a set of orders from them and his ideas,
and anything you'd care to contribute to the alliance,
and let him propose moves. Beyond that, I'm going to
step back, because my anger is not helping this
situation any.
Nick.
Message from France to England, Italy, and Russia
My orders are in without wait. Feel free to do the same when you can
(no pressure). Tomorrow is my son's birthday, so I will likely be
available during the day and then not until very late.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Italy
>I also think you should reduce your role as mediator and spend some time
>with your family and friends during the holiday season.
You don't have to worry about that. I will have a wonderful holiday.
>No reasonable man
>should have this hanging over his head.
This experience has been frustrating only within the carefully walled-off
world of Diplomacy. Again, don't worry.
>How much are you willing to gamble this turn? Sounds like a stupid
>question, but I'm serious.
Sure, why not?
>I would also suggest to you the following:
>
>ruh - bur
>ber - kie
>
>There are no counter moves for you to make progress in the west. Yes, I am
>not asking for support into Munich.
But you are moving Silesia->Munich anyway?
>My only glimmer of hope would be that you would not
>assist in the dislodgement of Italian army Munich
So, apparently you do plan to slip into Munich.
Are the following moves consistent with your plans?:
Holland->Kiel
Berlin & Ruhr supp Silesia->Munich
North Sea supp Channel->Belgium (to protect Belgium)
Belgium->Burgundy (to prevent Munich from taking Ruhr)
The intent is to destroy the French army in Munich and replace it with Silesia.
The Channel is vulnerable, but losing it would not be fatal. I doubt that
France will go for it. That's a gamble I was already going to take. [If
you really are helping France, feel free to inform him 8-) ]
We can count on Holland->Kiel to block a retreat of Munich to the north,
because Holland->Kiel also gets Russia Kiel (in exchange for Belgium which
he voluntarily handed to me).
Your suggestion of Berlin to Kiel would bounce Holland->Kiel and result in
my taking a center from Russia (Belgium without compensation). That could
result in a diplomatic problem that I would like to avoid if necessary. If
your intent was only to block France from retreating to Kiel, then
Holland->Kiel suffices.
I vow to support your presence in Munich as long as I have breath.
What I really want to know is whether the the moves that I have described
would mess up your plans. I am not asking for your plans or France's
plans.
Ivy
Message from England to France
>I have not heard from you?
But I did write. It was mostly a social note mentioning my son at the
University of Rochester. Did you not get it?
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>>Your suggestion of how to save Ruhr while taking
>>Munich risks the Channel, but I think it is worth it
>
>I considered that, but figured that as France has
>to defend Bur and Pic against possible attacks, a
>supported attack on ECh was unlikely.
Yes, we agree.
>>I am thinking about stepping aside and asking you
>>and Italy to work out your differences. What do you think?
>
>I was actually planning to respond to the latest
>Italian missive by saying that I would offer my
>ideas to you, and listen favorabley to whatever
>you reccommend. His passive-agressive attitude
>is too frustrating for me to deal with, anymore.
>Perhaps you could ask him what France suggested,
>and use that in planning.
I'll do my best. I wasn't in the greatest of moods when I wrote the
"stepping aside" note. I'll get back to you.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> But you are moving Silesia->Munich anyway?
>
Yes.
>
> What I really want to know is whether the the moves that I
> have described would mess up your plans?
>
No.
I have not changed my orders yet but I have entered wait. I await your
broadcast of suggested moves and can only hope that they and the results are
vaguely similar to my suggestions.
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
I've feeling a bit guilty about keeping my EIR moves a secret from you.
Also, if you could spare a moment to make sure I didn't miss anything. :)
I respectfully request that you keep this information as confidential as
possible.
These moves assume full cooperation from Russia as outlined in my previous
message.
bla supp bul/ec - con
boh supp sil - mun
bud - ser
France is expecting:
bla supp rum - sev
sil supp mun - ber
boh supp tyr - vie
ser supp bud - tri
bul/ec - rum
Any comments? I don't believe fleet Bulgaria can be destroyed. Munich is
toast.
Roberto
ps: I still don't trust Nick and probably never will.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>I've feeling a bit guilty about keeping my EIR moves a secret from you.
>Also, if you could spare a moment to make sure I didn't miss anything. :)
>
>I respectfully request that you keep this information as confidential as
>possible.
Now you've done it. If things go awry with the French moves, how will you
know whom to blame, me or Nick?
I hope I can get by with revealing as little as possible to Nick,
preferably nothing. Also, I'd like to disappear until tomorrow afternoon.
There should be plenty of time to sort this out with Nick then, for better
or worse.
I'll look at your moves carefully by then. They seem good to me.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I have some renewed optimism that Italy will come around. It's bedtime for
me now, and I have a 3-hour final exam to administer tomorrow. I'll be
back in touch in the afternoon.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>But I did write. It was mostly a social note mentioning my son at the
>University of Rochester. Did you not get it?
I missed it and accidentally filed it with my other mail. I was not
able to get to my normal mail all day and was sending judge mail via a
new yahoo account. At home I download all my message for the day (that
I normally would have read via a web page). I confused it with the list
of messages that I was sending to both accounts.
You will have to let me know when you come to Rochester. I realize that
your time up here will be short and you will want to see your son, but
perhaps we can get together for lunch or something. Who knows, the
Steelers might be on TV? :-)
I hope that Titleist will be over by then. If not we can just agree to
not talk about it. We could talk about optics instead! By the way,
when I am not trying to conquer Europe, I am a Coating Development
Engineer at Kodak.
Time for bed.
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
> By the way, when I am not trying to conquer Europe, I am a Coating
> Development Engineer at Kodak.
Ah, yes, Rochester/Kodak!
I am a mathematics professor at Bucknell University in Lewisburg, PA
I'm now racing off to give a 3-hour final exam this morning.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Here is my "best guess":
Russia:
A UKRAINE S Bul/EC-Rum
F HOLLAND-Kie
A TRIESTE-Ser
A GALICIA S Bul/EC-Rum
A MOSCOW-Sev
Italy:
F BLACK SEA-Ank
A SILESIA-Mun
A BOHEMIA-Vie
F BULGARIA/EC-Rum
A BUDAPEST S Tri-Ser
Italy gains three and loses three or four, depending on
whether France attacks Bul. Bul/EC S Bla-Rum is another
possibility, but that risks losing Ank. I don't see how
Italy can do better in terms of Center-count. Boh-Tyl is
actually a better move, since it cuts Tyl S Mun, or moves
adjacent to Venice, but Boh-Vie is probably more likely
to meet with Italian approval.
Nick.
Message from Master to England and France
> By the way, when I am not trying to conquer Europe, I am a Coating
> Development Engineer at Kodak.
Trivia: the Rochester, NY area is #1 in the nation in patents-per-
resident, due largely to Kodak. Burlington, VT, is #5, due to my
employer, IBM. Do you have any personally, Roger? I have none,
despite my management and co-workers efforts to get me to do the
work involved in taking a good idea to the patent office.
Back to your regularly scheduled conquest . . .
Doug
Message from France to Master and England
Doug:
>Trivia: the Rochester, NY area is #1 in the nation
>in patents-per-resident, due largely to Kodak.
I think that Xerox also plays a very big part in that.
These two companies are typically in the top 10 in
patents most years. That may change with Xerox having
it's problems and selling/spinning it's Research
portion.
> Do you have any personally, Roger?
About 5. I am working 2-3 more. Taking an idea from
experiments to a patent is sort of like visiting the
dentist. It can be tedious and painful, but is often
necessary. We do it because it is the right thing to
do :-)
With that glowing endorsement, I am sure that you will
rush out and try to get involved in the process!:-)
Back to work now. :-)
Roger
__________________________________________________
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Message from England to Italy and Russia
Nick & Roberto,
I have found recent correspondence to be most illuminating, and I have
great confidence in the upcoming turn. I will be sending each of you a set
of moves. I was going to say a "suggested" set, but I fear the
consequences of debate. What the three of us need most is the experience
of successful coordination. Once we have that, each turn thereafter will
be increasingly easy.
I don't think I have ever asked either of you to trust me blindly, but I am
asking that now. Just for this one turn. The moves I will request are not
those suggested by either of you, nor are they foolproof, but for various
reasons I truly believe they are the "right" moves. First and foremost
they are designed to stop France.
I am on my knees and begging. The message I wish to get back from each of
you is, "yes, I will do as you request, but if anything goes wrong you will
pay dearly." That would be fair; it's all I ask. Frankly,if we fail, we
all pay dearly.
I cannot tell you how important this mission is. You know that believers
in our cause are watching. What I can promise is this. If you make these
moves for the greater good of the mission, then you shall have the glory of
eternity in paradise, and there you will have the companionship of 50
specially selected virgins. Deviate from these moves and you will meet
your fate in a cold, dark cave.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
"The moves I will request are not those suggested by either of you" --
that's a lie, of course. The moves are precisely your moves, based on your
knowledge of what France probably intends. I wrote that in an attempt to
placate Russia, who suggested other moves.
I will be surprised if Nick doesn't ask for more detail or if he doesn't at
least ask why I don't trust him with the detail.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
Russia sent me his set of suggestions this morning. I just read them. They
actually don't interfere with the plans. I wouldn't support him to Serbia
but rather bounce France in Vienna. I may not take the support into
Rumania, but if it meant no retreat for the French army I'd be hard pressed
not to accept it.
If you haven't sent the moves yet, let's talk first.
Roberto
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
Here goes:
Holland->Kiel
Trieste->Vienna
Galicia->Rumania
Moscow->Sevastopol (bounce)
Ukraine->Sevastopol (bounce)
Livonia hold
Next year, I anticipate Mos->Sev->Arm and quite possibly
Livonia->Moscow->Sevastopol
I've put a lot if time into this, and if you ask me tomorrow why I have
selected these moves, then I expect to be able to give you a complete
response. I have suppressed detail, mostly because I am trying to avoid
rancorous debate. There are other reasons.
For heavens sake, please don't even suggest to France that a major effort
is being made to stop him. I think he thinks that we are in complete disarray.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Nick, Roberto,
Hold the presses. There may have to be an adjustment. Please be patient.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
>If you haven't sent the moves yet, let's talk first.
I just sent them, but followed with a "hold the presses" message.
Here is what Russia sent me. Are these the moves that Russia sent you?
Note Moscow->Sevastopol.
Russia:
A UKRAINE S Bul/EC-Rum
F HOLLAND-Kie
A TRIESTE-Ser
A GALICIA S Bul/EC-Rum
A MOSCOW-Sev
Italy:
F BLACK SEA-Ank
A SILESIA-Mun
A BOHEMIA-Vie
F BULGARIA/EC-Rum
A BUDAPEST S Tri-Ser
I will get back to e-mail after lunch.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
>For heavens sake, please don't even suggest to France that a major effort
>is being made to stop
>him. I think he thinks that we are in complete
>disarray.
You mean we're not??? 8-)
Nick.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Ivy and Roberto,
>Message from England to Russia and Italy in 'titleist':
>The message I wish to get back from each of you is, "yes, I will do as you
>request, but if anything
>goes wrong you will pay dearly." That would be fair; it's all I ask.
>Frankly, if we fail, we all pay dearly.
The best I can do is to promise to do as you request,
IF AND ONLY IF Italy agrees to do so, as well. I may
not be as mathematically-minded as either one of you, 8-)
but I do have three semesters of Formal Logic, and a
Bachelors degree in Computer Science, so I use that
construct with full knowledge of its meaning.
>If you make these moves for the greater good of
>the mission, then you shall have the glory of
>eternity in paradise, and there you will have
>the companionship of 50 specially selected virgins. Deviate from these
>moves and you will meet your fate
>in a cold, dark cave.
I'm not sure that eternity with 50 virgins meets my
definition of "Paradise", but I understand the
cultural reference. ;^}
Nick.
Message from Italy to England and Russia
>
> The best I can do is to promise to do as you request,
> IF AND ONLY IF Italy agrees to do so, as well. I may
> not be as mathematically-minded as either one of you, 8-)
> but I do have three semesters of Formal Logic, and a
> Bachelors degree in Computer Science, so I use that
> construct with full knowledge of its meaning.
>
Only two semesters of logic, a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science, and
14+ years experience as a programmer. (Me thinks Ivy probably has us both
beat on the education front though)
Italy_Flag = Null
Select Case Russia_Flag
"Y": Italy_Flag = "Y"
End Select
I am quite familiar with the IIF construct and understand its meaning.
My grammar, on the other hand, can sometimes use some work. :)
Roberto
--------------------------
Nick, what say we communicate in programming language from now on. Perhaps
a common bond will help strengthen our relationship?
Message from Italy to England
>
> Note Moscow->Sevastopol.
>
I know. That's the one that bothers me the most since if FR are still in
cohoots and France doesn't move there, I lose SEV without the ability to be
mad at Russia.
> Russia:
> A UKRAINE S Bul/EC-Rum
> F HOLLAND-Kie
> A TRIESTE-Ser
> A GALICIA S Bul/EC-Rum
> A MOSCOW-Sev
>
> Italy:
> F BLACK SEA-Ank
> A SILESIA-Mun
> A BOHEMIA-Vie
> F BULGARIA/EC-Rum
> A BUDAPEST S Tri-Ser
>
Exactly.
I would modify Russia's orders just slightly.
a tri - vie
The rest would be his suggestions. I would order bud-ser. He risks losing
Trieste but he's going to lose that next year most likely anyway when pie
gets to venice.
So, my suggestions for your suggestions :) feel free to massage particulars
(ie: Trieste and Budapest can be mixed and matched)
Russia:
ukr s bul/ec - rum
hol - kie
tri - vie
gal s bul/ec - rum
mos - sev
Italy:
bla - ank
sil - mun
boh s sil - mun (have to assure the destruction of Munich)
bul/ec - rum
bud - ser
>From my count, Russia has the following centers:
hol,kie,swe,stp,war,mos,(vie or tri) That's two builds. I don't think he
can ask for more. He'd also have a chance at SEV. I hope not but it's
possible. However, next year he could probably get SEV and/or RUM.
If everybody moves as they've said, I'd end up with six centers
(ank,bul,rum,sev,bud,mun) so I have a cushion. If France doesn't move to
SEV and goes for BUL instead, I end up with four. I can live with that.
> I just sent them, but followed with a "hold the presses" message.
I got the 'hold the presses' message but not the moves message. Did you
only send them to Russia?
Thanks for your efforts,
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
I just received the following from France:
>
> Either Russia is really ticked off with you or else he is
> trying to con me into not making the best moves. Perhaps
> a bit of both. He expressed a strong desire to eliminate
> you (but told me no details about your conversation).
>
Russia's suggestions of supporting me to Rumania make me nervous.
I need time to think.
I'll answer France and get back to you.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Roberto and Ivy,
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
R > The best I can do is to promise to do as you request,
R > IF AND ONLY IF Italy agrees to do so, as well.
I > (Me thinks Ivy probably has us both
I > beat on the education front though)
No doubt. 8-)
I > Italy_Flag = Null
I > Select Case Russia_Flag
I > "Y": Italy_Flag = "Y"
I > End Select
I > Nick, what say we communicate in programming
I > language from now on. Perhaps a common bond
I > will help strengthen our relationship?
Oh, dear, I work in State Government, you really
don't wanna speak COBOL, do you? ;^}
Italy_Agrees Pic X(3).
Russia_Agrees Pic X(3) Value "Yes".
[...]
IF Italy_Agrees NOT = "Yes"
MOVE "No" TO Russia_Agrees.
I suggest that you reinitialize your Flag, or we'll
have a problem... 8-)
Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>I got the 'hold the presses' message but not the moves message. Did you
>only send them to Russia?
Right. You already knew the moves. I sent you a message as follows:
>"The moves I will request are not those suggested by either of you" --
>that's a lie, of course. The moves are precisely your moves, based on your
>knowledge of what France probably intends. I wrote that in an attempt to
>placate Russia, who suggested other moves.
**************
>I know. That's the one that bothers me the most since if FR are still in
>cohoots
I keep saying things like, "if FR are in cahoots, we are dead anyway" or
"if FI are in cahoots we are dead anyway." Yet here we are, still alive,
somehow.
>So, my suggestions for your suggestions :) feel free to massage particulars
>(ie: Trieste and Budapest can be mixed and matched)
>
>Russia:
>ukr s bul/ec - rum
>hol - kie
>tri - vie
>gal s bul/ec - rum
>mos - sev
>
>Italy:
>bla - ank
>sil - mun
>boh s sil - mun (have to assure the destruction of Munich)
>bul/ec - rum
>bud - ser
OK, you have your moves, and I will e-mail Russia with the changes.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
Here are the revised moves that follow my "hold the presses" message. They
follow your suggestions more closely:
Ukraine supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
Galicia supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
Holland->Kiel
Trieste->Vienna
Moscow->Sevastopol
Comments: You may or may not get Sevastopol, but France most definitely
will not. Next year we surely must send your armies in that direction,
with support if necessary.
I expect Trieste->Vienna to bounce France.
Next year I fear that France will take Trieste, but if I am right we will
certainly have compensation for you.
I hope you can send me a message that says, "OK, provided that Italy agrees
to his moves."
**********************
> >For heavens sake, please don't even suggest to France that a major effort
> >is being made to stop
> >him. I think he thinks that we are in complete
> >disarray.
>
>You mean we're not??? 8-)
Not quite, in spite of our best attempts.
**************
Say, Nick, if you are from Harrisburg, why do so many of your messages seem
to be sent around 5 a.m. Up early? Up late?
Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>Here are the revised moves:
>Ukraine supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
>Galicia supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
>Holland->Kiel
>Trieste->Vienna
>Moscow->Sevastopol
>I expect Trieste->Vienna to bounce France.
Ok, but it leaves Serbia as French.
>I hope you can send me a message that says, "OK, provided that Italy agrees
>to his moves."
OK, provided that Italy agrees to his moves. 8-)
**********************
> > > I think he thinks that we are in complete
> > >disarray.
> >You mean we're not??? 8-)
>Not quite, in spite of our best attempts.
I've actually been emphasizing all of the sniping
Italy and I have been doing in my letters to France.
It allows me to vent my very real frustration with
Ken's attitude, and makes Roger think a coordinated
defense is unlikely.
>if you are from Harrisburg, why do so many of your messages seem
>to be sent around 5 a.m. Up early? Up late?
Up early. Three computer users in the house, but
only one PC, so I'm only on a couple of evenings a
week, normally. I get up early, and have a cup
of tea, and respond to email, and try to get fully
awake.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> >Here are the revised moves:
>
> >Ukraine supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
> >Galicia supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
> >Holland->Kiel
> >Trieste->Vienna
> >Moscow->Sevastopol
>
> >I expect Trieste->Vienna to bounce France.
>
>Ok, but it leaves Serbia as French.
Something has to stay French.
> >I hope you can send me a message that says, "OK, provided that Italy agrees
> >to his moves."
>
>OK, provided that Italy agrees to his moves. 8-)
Thank you.
I'm certain that Italy will agree. I am entering moves now and I will
forward your "OK" to Italy.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Nick says OK to these moves.
> >Ukraine supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
> >Galicia supp Bulgaria(ec)->Rumania
> >Holland->Kiel
> >Trieste->Vienna
> >Moscow->Sevastopol
I am entering my moves now.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England, France, and Russia
My moves are in without wait......
Roberto
Message from England to Italy and Russia
>Message from Italy to England, France and Russia in 'titleist':
>
>My moves are in without wait...
As are mine. France's too,supposedly.
I even have "set draw" in. Hah, hah. Maybe France will be more interested
after this move.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
I have to tell you, my gut tells me that Russia will double support himself
to SEV and BUD. It actually won't get me upset because I expect it to
happen.
England: Army Belgium → Burgundy (*bounce*)
England: Army Berlin SUPPORT Italian Army Silesia → Munich
England: Fleet English Channel → Belgium (*bounce*)
England: Fleet Irish Sea → English Channel (*bounce*)
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Fleet English Channel → Belgium
England: Army Ruhr SUPPORT Italian Army Silesia → Munich
France: Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Brest SUPPORT Army Picardy
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Constantinople → Ankara (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean HOLD
France: Army Munich → Berlin (*bounce, destroyed*)
France: Army Paris → Burgundy (*bounce*)
France: Army Picardy SUPPORT Army Paris → Burgundy
France: Army Piedmont → Venice
France: Army Rumania → Sevastopol (*bounce, destroyed*)
France: Army Serbia SUPPORT Italian Army Budapest → Trieste (*void*)
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Tyrolia → Vienna (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean
Italy: Fleet Black Sea → Ankara (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Bohemia SUPPORT Army Silesia → Munich
Italy: Army Budapest → Serbia (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Bulgaria (east coast) → Rumania
Italy: Army Silesia → Munich
Russia: Army Galicia SUPPORT Italian Fleet Bulgaria (east coast) → Rumania
Russia: Fleet Holland → Kiel
Russia: Army Livonia → Prussia
Russia: Army Moscow → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Trieste → Vienna (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Italian Fleet Bulgaria (east coast) → Rumania
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