|
|
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>But we both could have
>betrayed each other last year. We can do so again.
I would not be insulted if you protected Brest or Paris or
both. Disappointed a wee bit, but not insulted. They do look terribly
exposed. Protecting one or both would slow down the offense.
Taking our time against Germany is no problem, but I hope that Italy
doesn't squirm out of his dilemma. By building an army, he has decided to
protect Piedmont himself and not rely on Germany. Thus he will be weakest
at sea. You may get Tunis, but he doesn't actually need Tunis to form a
defense line. He has greater problems in the north, even with his new
army. Once you are in both Marseilles and Lyon, he will have difficulty
holding both Piedmont and Tuscany.
>You know, I did not think about another choice for last
>year:
>Bel -> Ruh s by Bur
>Pic -> Bel s by Eng
>This would have protected Belgium and provided a better
>spot for your army. Of course hindsight! I only have
>two weeks to think of it, but I was not really thinking
>about the game much.
I am notoriously blind when it comes to basic tactics. I offered you
Belgium not even realizing that my army could be saved. When you pointed
out that Picardy could be a refuge I was delighted. I, too, never saw the
above maneuver that would have put my army in Ruhr.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
(Warning this is long.)
>Anyway, given your weird position this turn,
>I am ready to agree to anything that you propose.
Yes, I am feeling quite a bit exposed. I worry that I
will do the dirty work distracting Italy and basically
getting nowhere, while you will grab a couple quick
centers from Germany. Then you stab me. Suddenly you
look large. About the only thing that I have going for
me is that Russia, Germany and I together can still make
you vulnerable. And I can go back to defending against
only you. I hope that you will understand my concern.
Given that dangerous situation, I have been extremely
trusting of you, the decision to let you stay in Picardy
and the Channel is an example. I am placing a lot of
long term trust in you. Together I think that we can
take over more than half the board and both be better off
in the long run. I will continue to trust you, but will
try to exercise a little caution.
Having said that, I realize that I am long overdue on
saying something else:
Thank you!!!!
I appreciate your letting me have Belgium. Without it I
would look pretty shaky in the Mediterranean and Italy
might be able to make progress against both Turkey and I.
With this extra unit, I have a chance at getting
somewhere against Italy. In the short term, it would
likely only be Tunis. But as Turkey presses him, things
will open up. I do expect him to focus more on me than
Turkey, since he is angry with me.
Hence Turkey will get larger. So we need to prop up
Russia to give him something to worry about. Given
their history, it will just be a matter of time before
they are fighting. New builds that you help Russia take
can be placed in the south?
As for the moves for this year. I ask for Pic -> Hol.
The reason is that I want *my* army in Burgundy for the
fall. I want the option to cover Marseilles in the fall
with that Army. It also gives me more peace of mind to
not have you in both Bur and the Channel. I am also
probably not going to order Burgundy to Ruhr. I simple
cannot risk having Germany get into Burgundy. The
advantage of your getting another unit is not worth the
risk to me. Right now you really do not need that extra
unit, therefore the potential gain is small compared to
the risk. I will instead order it to Munich. This
should prevent Tyr -> Mun, which will help us in the long
run. Is all this acceptable to you? In other words, can
you live with it?
To answer some old comments and questions:
>That was one of the most rambling, incoherent discourses
Rambling! I am soooo insulted! OK, maybe it was
rambling, but no more so than my usual symposium. I have
my wity commentary, my State of the Union section, my
philosophy discourse, that I try to tie into the game.
What really surprised me is that you actually read enough
of it to have an opinion on whether it was rambling! I
just assume that everyone hit delete when they see the
title. Come on, was none of it humorous? Ever?
Actually they are getting too long, but I cannot figure
out how to shorten them. I will work on it.
>By amazing coincidence, I first heard the Descartes
>joke ("I think not") yesterday morning.
Yes that is amazing. First the Baloney connection, then
football obessions, now philosophy jokes. This is scary
:-) We need to meet in a bar when this game ends :-)
Watching football of course.
The joke is probably very old. I read it in the
philosophy book that I got from the library. Yes, I
actually do research on this stuff. What a royal geek!
:-)
>The Steeler victory was OK, but they may have beaten
>the worst team in the NFL.
There is always the Washington Redskins.
>I'm not so sure that the Pack has been tested yet
>either. Still, 3-0 ain't bad against any opposition.
On the one hand, you can't blame them for their
opponent's weaknesses. On the other hand, they have not
played anyone tough enough to know. Next week, the
Buccaneers!
> I am telling them the truth.
I was not asking you to lie about it. I was wondering if
we wanted to just keep people guessing. OK. I can go
around explaining why I am so stupid to my neighbors who
have implied it. :-)
>I think you and I can stay at peace and work with
>Turkey and get the game down to three.
I am all for that. I am even comfortable with that
ending. But we may want to first try to bring the game
down to four (with Russia involved) and hope to exploit
the T-R history. There is no 2-way stalemate between us,
so all we could think about would be a 50-50 shot at the
victory. Well, I am getting ahead of myself.
I am sorry that this is so long. If I rambled, just be
polite and keep it to yourself ;-)
>Then why didn't you select it over France?
I did, but you selected England first and I had to settle
for my second choice! ;-)
--Prince Boar
Message from England to France
I just finished waching SF-Jets. The wife went to bed a couple of hours
ago, and I better head that way also. We usually get up around 6.
>>Anyway, given your weird position this turn,
>>I am ready to agree to anything that you propose.
>Yes, I am feeling quite a bit exposed.
I am far more trusting than good ol' Fredd, but I think you have me beat in
the trusting department.
>Thank you!!!!
No problem. I suppose, to take a dim view, that this decision like all
others in Diplomacy was ultimately selfish. Had Italy gotten his stalemate
line while crushing Turkey, then you, Germany, Russia and I would have been
left to divide up the crumbs. I didn't like my chances at all in that
scenerio, short term or long term.
> With this extra unit, I have a chance at getting
>somewhere against Italy. In the short term, it would
>likely only be Tunis.
It's going to be interesting. We will see how well Italy can defend. He
doesn't really need Tunis to set up a wall against you, but he does need
greater strength in the north. I think he desperately needs one more
center from Turkey and those prospects are 50-50 at best this year.
>As for the moves for this year. I ask for Pic -> Hol.
Done. Now I can enter my moves. The two fleets will convoy Picardy to
Holland and Norway bumps StP to help Russia. Of course, Belgium will be
supporting Pic->Holland. Right?
>Is all this acceptable to you?
Absolutely. We both will be far better off than we were one year ago.
>>By amazing coincidence, I first heard the Descartes
>>joke ("I think not") yesterday morning.
>Yes that is amazing. First the Baloney connection,
What was the Baloney connection? I don't remember.
> ... We need to meet in a bar when this game ends :-)
Ugh. I don't like beer. That's why I will never be a good face-to-face
player. Wine is OK, but for the most part I am rather square.
>>I think you and I can stay at peace and work with
>>Turkey and get the game down to three.
>I am all for that. I am even comfortable with that
>ending. But we may want to first try to bring the game
>down to four (with Russia involved) and hope to exploit
>the T-R history.
You and I will have to discuss this very carefully as Germany disappears.
As Italy has just learned, no one will be able to run away with this game.
It's musical chairs and I do hope that after Germany goes, either Russia or
Italy will be next.
>There is no 2-way stalemate between us,
Well, you could give me France and Iberia and shift your units east to take
the eastern 17. 8-)
Don't think about these things now. We both can improve our chances
considerably by working together. Besides, a 2-way doesn't have to be
along a stalemate line. I would like to say a little about my history, but
gunboat prohibits it.
>>Then why didn't you select it over France?
>I did, but you selected England first and I had to settle
>for my second choice! ;-)
Sure, sure. He smiles and winks.
Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy
>what was the Baloney connection? I don't remember.
The Dauphin's ditty, My balone has a first name ....
Your wife being named Mayer? :-)
I will of course be supporting Pic to Bel! No worries
about that mate.
--Prince Boar
PS: I will be unavailalbe all day, but should be around
late tonight.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
My moves are in. At France's insistence, I am convoying the army to
Holland instead of attacking Denmark.
He doesn't quite say it so boldly, but he is concerned by my proximity to
Brest and Paris. I can't imagine why. 8-) Anyway, the convoy does get me
out of his hair. He admits that this provides a weaker attack on Germany
than we might have had, but I do understand his concern for his own safety.
You have Norway->StP from me. One complication could occur if Germany
tried the shift StP->Bothnia & Livonia->Stp. You might have to do some
guessing next fall. Nevertheless, I don't see better options. Other moves
leave Moscow or Warsaw vulnerable.
France is also a bit nervous about the aftermath. If you project far
enough into the future everyone is a potential enemy, though. The trick is
not to let that kind of thinking spoil good moves for the present. We all
improve our lot greatly by removing Germany.
I can't really see the future. Will Italy still be a big threat? Will
Italy stumble while fighting France and Turkey become a monster
again? Will you and France team up against me? I just know that five
remaining players is an improvement over six, which is better than seven.
Suppose I actually have a choice of what to do after Germany is gone. It
could be counterproductive to attack France if Italy is still powerful. It
could be counterproductive to attack you if it is Turkey who will really
benefit. Dare I sit on my hands and watch and wait? Yes, I've done that
before, too.
This I do know. There is nothing in our history that suggests that you and
I shouldn't work together. Given the opportunity I could well be happy
with both of us working to the south.
Anyway, let's both enjoy the German feast while we have it. We are still,
after all, the weakest two powers.
Ivy
Message from Master to all
I'd like to encourage End-Of-Year statements from all the players (in
"press to m" format) and from any interested observers as well (in
posts to the vgfp_titleist Yahoogroup.
Doug
Message from Russia to England and France
>Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
>
>At France's insistence, I am convoying the army to
>Holland instead of attacking Denmark.
>but he is concerned [I think] by my proximity to
>Brest and Paris. He admits that this provides a weaker attack on Germany
>than we might have had, but I do understand his concern for his own safety.
>From my perspective, ECh S Pic-Bel, Bur S Bel-Ruh,
Swe S Nth-Den still get you out of his hair, and is
far superior, but I can't force you two to listen
to me. Prince Boar, what problem do you see with
taking Ruhr this Spring?
Your Friend,
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
I hope you don't mind my including France in the
first part of my reply.
>France is also a bit nervous about the aftermath.
Yes, realistically you'll have to attack me or
him once Germany is gone, though I suppose you could
build Armies and head for Italy through Germany.
>This I do know. There is nothing in our history that suggests that you and
>I shouldn't work together.
It seems unlikely that I'll be able to ignore IT once
Germany is gone, so I see no problem in our continuing
to remain friendly.
Nick.
Message from England to France
Prince Boar,
>Message from Russia to England and France in 'titleist':
>
> >Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
> >
> >At France's insistence, I am convoying the army to
> >Holland instead of attacking Denmark.
> >but he is concerned [I think] by my proximity to
> >Brest and Paris. He admits that this provides a weaker attack on Germany
> >than we might have had, but I do understand his concern for his own safety.
I will be asking Nick, as politely as I can, to avoid quoting me to a third
party. I won't say "never," but I am sure you understand the principle
involved. Had I been writing to you, I hope I would not have used the word
"insistence." Our agreement on the moves was reached painlessly. As I
said to Nick (in a fuller context that he did not quote), I DO understand
your concern on this turn in particular. The exposed centers in Paris and
Brest are so obvious -- the "elephant" in the conversation, as they say.
> >From my perspective, ECh S Pic-Bel, Bur S Bel-Ruh,
>Swe S Nth-Den still get you out of his hair, and is
>far superior, but I can't force you two to listen
>to me. Prince Boar, what problem do you see with
>taking Ruhr this Spring?
I really had to smile when I read this. There was a player in my semifinal
who was never content with my suggestions when we were allied. He always
had something better and would argue his point endlessly. May be the same
person. Nick drove me crazy when he was trying to dictate my moves after
he went Moscow->StP at the beginning of the game. No matter. I will be
able to work with Nick, at least until Germany disappears.
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
> I hope you don't mind my including France in the
>first part of my reply.
Paraphrasing is safer. I used the word "insistence" in the note to you,
but would not have used that word in writing to France. In fact, I used
the word carelessly. France didn't have to insist. He suggested and I
agreed. I agreed without debate, because France is in a messy position
until I get Picardy out of there. Picardy->Holland does the job.
> >France is also a bit nervous about the aftermath.
>
> Yes, realistically you'll have to attack me or
>him once Germany is gone, though I suppose you could
>build Armies and head for Italy through Germany.
As I indicated earlier, I am wary of doing either if I think that Italy or
Turkey will be the real beneficiary. It will be a delicate situation that
may call for more foresight than I actually have. What often happens in
such a situation, though, is that someone will make the decision for me by
attacking me first. Or maybe Italy or Turkey or France or Russia will be
so strong that there will be a consensus among other powers that will
dictate my action -- just as my moves in 1905 (and France's too, I dare
say) were almost totally dictated by Italy's power.
Ivy
Message from England to Master
Doug,
Here are my comments on 1905.
*************************
1905 from the English perspective.
I barely remember the beginning of 1905. With both the tornado cleanup in
my yard and the sickening front-page news stories, this game barely seemed
to register in my consciousness for a long time.
So much has changed within "titleist" too.
A. Germany and I had a mutual falling out.
B. France and I cooperated.
While my relationship with Germany had been failing for a long time -- I
bear major responsibility -- it was the Italian success that provided the
jolt that made me change strategy completely. And I dare say that it was
Italy that altered France's thinking also.
Had Italy remained undisturbed any longer, he would have easily crushed
Turkey and would have been able to use the gain to build a defense line
against France. Even without total victory, he was very close to obtaining
a stalemate line of 13 or 14 units. Very close. I saw no future in the
game for me if that happened. France, England, Russia, and Germany would
have had to fight for crumbs. Short term and long term looked bad.
So I offered Belgium to France. France accepted and suggested the convoy
as a way of saving my army. This took courage on France's part as
well. Although he got to build a fleet in Marseilles and has Italy in his
sights, he also has my units next to vacant centers in Brest and Paris. I
believe that France trusts me (for now) out of necessity. Just as I
sacrificed Belgium in order to stop Italy, France is risking my betrayal to
do the same. It's what the situation calls for. No one, read "Italy,"
should be permitted to walk away with victory with ease.
The ideal future for me looks like this. [It'll never work this way;
something always happens.] France, Russia, and I eliminate Germany. With
Turkey's help in the rear, both Italy and Russia get squeezed. It comes
down to France, England, and Turkey. Then, then, ... . The crystal ball
is clouding. Please deposit another quarter.
Allen
Message from France to England and Russia
Nick, Ivy:
I am a bit uncomfortable walking out of a center that
England will fill, given my extreme amount of exposure.
There would be no guarantee of my taking a center to
replace it and I cannot afford to have only 1 center
guarding my entire homeland. The move to Holland takes
one Germany center. St. Petes will also fall this year.
There is less of a chance to take a third German center
this year, but either way 3 were probably not guaranteed.
The bottom line is that I have my hands full with Italy
and I do not mind Germany taking a bit of time to
eliminate. I also feel more comfortable disentangling
England and my forces.
I hope that Nick can bear with us. I have a lot of
Italian units to deal with down here. It is more
important to prevent his getting even larger than
crushing Germany in record time. Savor the steady
crushing of Germany Nick, savor it.
--Prince Boar
Message from France to England
Ivy
I did raise my eyebrows at the insistence when I first
read Nick's note. But I shrugged it off as just the
normal diplomatic pictures that we paint to different
parties. I urged politely, you agreed graciously. My
reasons were for more than just separating our forces.
There were as much for the more flexible attack against
Italy. But I choose not to mention that to Nick. I
trust that you are not doing so as well.
>Nick drove me crazy when he was trying to dictate my
>moves …
Germany had similar comments a couple of seasons ago. I
smile because I had the same troubles when you were
attacking me. He is very stubborn and refuses to ever
see something that you feel is obvious. I prefer working
with someone who is willing to consider all options and
compromise to find the best one. But I agree, we can
work with Nick. You have the challenges not me. :-) At
least this may help keep us united, preferring to work
with each other than with Russia. ;-)
--Prince Boar
Message from Russia to England and France
> I hope that Nick can bear with us. I have a lot of
> Italian units to deal with down here. It is more
> important to prevent his getting even larger than
> crushing Germany in record time. Savor the steady
> crushing of Germany Nick, savor it.
Obviously, I'm not in a position to insist on anything,
but those Italian Units are fully engaged with Turkey,
while I have to worry about GT cooperation, so I view
rapid German destruction as a plus. ;^} Speaking of
GIT, has anyone heard from them since the game
started again?
Nick.
Message from England to France and Russia
> Speaking of
>GIT, has anyone heard from them since the game
>started again?
Germany, no.
Turkey, yes, but it wasn't his best effort. He simply asked if I were at
war once again with France. I would have expected him to be delighted with
events and to resume diplomacy with renewed vigor. His prospects are now
much brighter. Even though he doesn't need to coordinate any moves, he
should be constantly cultivating friends.
Italy, yes. Immediately after the moves, which surely took him by
surprise, he wrote me. Surely, he said, you [England] are not going to
let France and Germany and Turkey grow at the expense of Italy. In my
response I told him that Germany would not be growing at the expense of
Italy. 8-) I said that I hoped that balance would soon be restored to the
game -- an obvious reference to Italy's threatened dominance. I thought
my note was polite. He hasn't written back. In his position I would find
lots to say.
Ivy
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
My moves are in. I have been encouraging France to hit Italy with all he
can. It's a little tricky, because France has to worry some about my
intentions. There is no way I would harm France now, and I hope the logic
of the situation is clear to him. Italy must not be permitted to set up an
impenetrable defense line against France, behind which he could still
dismantle you. I think that France knows that I know this and that
everything will turn out OK.
You should be able to recover fully, after which you will, once again, have
a wonderful position. As this becomes apparent, you and I need to consider
longer range strategy. I am confident that Germany is about to be
eliminated. Russia and France and I will pick up the pieces. I will most
definitely want your advice on what to do after that.
Ivy
Message from England to Germany
Fredd,
It's me, your old friend Ivy. My moves are in and, once again, I am doing
what France requests. I do this under the assumption that France will
continue his all out assault on Italy. If he does, then I believe that
Italy will not be able to get his stalemate line. That has been my goal
for the past two turns.
Once it is clear that Italy's strength will be limited and that no one else
is about to run away with the game, then I will be prepared to reconsider
everything.
Ivy
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
My moves are in and, once again, I am doing what France requests. My goal
is not the destruction of Italy, but I really didn't want you to get that
stalemate line. You were so close.
Once it is clear that the game is balanced again, then I will be prepared
to reconsider everything. So please remember me in your plans.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
I certainly share your hope that France goes after Italy full-force. As you
can imagine, I was quite delighted to see F Marseilles. Hopefully, Italy will
soon start to crumble with pressure from both sides. I owe you a great debt
for making it all possible, especially your sacrifice of Bel. I have of
course been encouraging Russia to support you to Denmark. Germany will not
stand long in the face of F/E/R pressure.
In terms of long-range planning, I have to confess I've not got a clear
picture of what the game will look like. The immediate goal of paring down
Italy will take some time, and it's hard to say how it will come about. Italy
might throw all his efforts against either me or France, leaving the other to
reap the rewards; or he might defend equally against both, in which case gains
will continue to be difficult. I am pleased to see you and Russia working
together, but at the same time I fear what Russia will do once he's stronger.
I have no doubt that he still bears me some grudges for my earlier
transgressions.
Roberto wrote to me just after the move result, asking me to disband F Smy and
promising to throw everything against France if I did. Naturally, I declined
his generous offer. He then wrote to say his offer of support was withdrawn
and would be offered to "another power". The most likely candidate is
probably Germany. Active cooperation between Italy and Germany would, of
course, not be good for any of us. But in the long run, I can't see how they
could possibly prevail against the rest of us -- as long as E/F/T/R continue
to work together, that is.
In any case, nothing has changed my belief that what is good for England, is
good for Turkey, and vice-versa. I hope you will be able to build a strong
position out of Germany's demise, while I eventually get an opportunity to pay
Italy back. After that... well, it's too difficult for me to predict what the
game will look like. But as long as we can keep our forces viable, and as
long as we continue to maintain strong ties, then I'm sure we'll both be able
to benefit from whatever opportunities present themselves.
Best of luck to you in the result, and if there's anything I can do, please
let me know.
Best regards,
Ali
Message from Turkey to England and France
Gentlemen,
I'm just writing to express my sincere thanks and continued support for your
renewed spirit of cooperation. I hope and expect that as events unfold, the
two of you will enjoy a strong and mutually beneficial alliance. I recall the
situation just a year ago, when I first wrote to encourage your cease-fire.
The board I see before me now is more promising than I had dared hope. Italy
remains a real threat, and he won't be easy to take down. But the odds are on
our side, and the situation is far, far more promising now. Again, thank you.
Best regards to you both,
Ali
Message from Italy to England
>
> My moves are in and, once again, I am doing what France
> requests.
>
Good, nothing more I'd like to see than France prosper.
> My goal is not the destruction of Italy,
>
Odd since that is my goal. I offered up my centers to Turkey but he refused
so now I've offered them up to France. We'll see if he accepts or not.
> Once it is clear that the game is balanced again,
>
I really don't see how the game will ever become balanced again. Once the
balance of power shifts over to France with a weak or non-existant Germany,
whom do you expect to stop France? It won't be Italy. I'd just assume this
game be over. It might be bad sportsmanship but quite honestly I'm not in
the mood to play this game anymore. Here's hoping France takes me up on my
offer.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
> quite honestly I'm not in the mood to play this game anymore.
This is more than understandable, given all that has transpired.
>It might be bad sportsmanship but ...
I am not convinced that we are about to witness any bad sportsmanship; we
all have too much respect for each other. So I must conclude that you are
trying to influence my stance. Why not?
I don't believe you expect me to attack France in order to preserve Italian
superiority. I do believe that you should expect me to attack France to
prevent French superiority and to preserve an Italy who could help me do it.
> Once the balance of power shifts over to France ...
I don't want France to have a dominant position any more than I wanted
Italy to have a dominant position. Perhaps I may misjudge what it takes to
control France or when to do it, but I will be watching and thinking. You
might ask how I expect you to help against France if you are weakened and
besieged by Turkey in the rear. For starters, I talk to Turkey and request
that he desist any attack against you. Am I naive? I don't think so. Not
with the players in this particular game. Not with this Turkey.
I was about to be squashed by France and Germany when the world realized
that something had to be done about Italy. The same should happen if
something needs to be done about France.
Hang tough.
Most courteously,
Ivy
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
Interesting message from Italy. I am going to break one of my own
principles and give you his message in full and my response in full.
************
First Italy's message:
Message from Italy to England in 'titleist':
>
> My moves are in and, once again, I am doing what France
> requests. [That was me (Ivy) talking]
>
Good, nothing more I'd like to see than France prosper. (Roberto replying)
> My goal is not the destruction of Italy,
Odd since that is my goal. I offered up my centers to Turkey but he refused
so now I've offered them up to France. We'll see if he accepts or not.
> Once it is clear that the game is balanced again,
I really don't see how the game will ever become balanced again. Once the
balance of power shifts over to France with a weak or non-existant Germany,
whom do you expect to stop France? It won't be Italy. I'd just assume this
game be over. It might be bad sportsmanship but quite honestly I'm not in
the mood to play this game anymore. Here's hoping France takes me up on my
offer.
Roberto
**************
Here was my reply:
Roberto,
> quite honestly I'm not in the mood to play this game anymore.
This is more than understandable, given all that has transpired.
>It might be bad sportsmanship but ...
I am not convinced that we are about to witness any bad sportsmanship; we
all have too much respect for each other. So I must conclude that you are
trying to influence my stance. Why not?
I don't believe you expect me to attack France in order to preserve Italian
superiority. I do believe that you should expect me to attack France to
prevent French superiority and to preserve an Italy who could help me do it.
> Once the balance of power shifts over to France ...
I don't want France to have a dominant position any more than I wanted
Italy to have a dominant position. Perhaps I may misjudge what it takes to
control France or when to do it, but I will be watching and thinking. You
might ask how I expect you to help against France if you are weakened and
besieged by Turkey in the rear. For starters, I talk to Turkey and request
that he desist any attack against you. Am I naive? I don't think so. Not
with the players in this particular game. Not with this Turkey.
I was about to be squashed by France and Germany when the world realized
that something had to be done about Italy. The same should happen if
something needs to be done about France.
Hang tough.
Most courteously,
Ivy
*******************
Nick, the reason I forward all of this to you is that there remains the
possibility that Italy will indeed throw centers to France, not out of bad
sportsmanship, but as a ploy to get the world to react. If this does
happen, then you and I need to be very wary of whether or not France tries
to take advantage of the situation. France admits that the current moves
are designed to "go slower" in Germany and we know that is already to
France's advantage.
Ivy
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
Interesting message from Italy. I am going to break one of my own
principles and give you his message in full and my response in full.
************
First Italy's message:
Message from Italy to England in 'titleist':
>
> My moves are in and, once again, I am doing what France
> requests. [That was me (Ivy) talking]
>
Good, nothing more I'd like to see than France prosper. [Roberto replying]
> My goal is not the destruction of Italy,
Odd since that is my goal. I offered up my centers to Turkey but he refused
so now I've offered them up to France. We'll see if he accepts or not.
> Once it is clear that the game is balanced again,
I really don't see how the game will ever become balanced again. Once the
balance of power shifts over to France with a weak or non-existant Germany,
whom do you expect to stop France? It won't be Italy. I'd just assume this
game be over. It might be bad sportsmanship but quite honestly I'm not in
the mood to play this game anymore. Here's hoping France takes me up on my
offer.
Roberto
**************
Here was my reply:
Roberto,
> quite honestly I'm not in the mood to play this game anymore.
This is more than understandable, given all that has transpired.
>It might be bad sportsmanship but ...
I am not convinced that we are about to witness any bad sportsmanship; we
all have too much respect for each other. So I must conclude that you are
trying to influence my stance. Why not?
I don't believe you expect me to attack France in order to preserve Italian
superiority. I do believe that you should expect me to attack France to
prevent French superiority and to preserve an Italy who could help me do it.
> Once the balance of power shifts over to France ...
I don't want France to have a dominant position any more than I wanted
Italy to have a dominant position. Perhaps I may misjudge what it takes to
control France or when to do it, but I will be watching and thinking. You
might ask how I expect you to help against France if you are weakened and
besieged by Turkey in the rear. For starters, I talk to Turkey and request
that he desist any attack against you. Am I naive? I don't think so. Not
with the players in this particular game. Not with this Turkey.
I was about to be squashed by France and Germany when the world realized
that something had to be done about Italy. The same should happen if
something needs to be done about France.
Hang tough.
Most courteously,
Ivy
***************
Who knows, Ali, what Italy will really do, but we do need to be alert to
the possibility that France could prosper disproportionately. So we watch.
Ivy
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
Interesting information from Italy. He certainly seems pretty disenchanted.
I have written again to Roberto to try and get some kind of discussion going
(without, of course, giving any indication that I was aware of your exchange).
Why he is so hung up on whether or not I disbanded the fleet, I do not
understand. Certainly my lone fleet doesn't provide nearly the threat to him
that France's 4 fleets do. He can hardly blame me for our conflict, since he
was the one who attacked me. Twice.
In any case, we will have to keep an eye on events. Even if Italy throws
centers to France, ultimately Italy will become so weakened that I'll have
some opportunities of my own; but we don't want an unstoppable France any more
than an unstoppable Italy. Of course, the Italian press could just be a
diplomatic maneuver, and may not be true; but my gut reaction in reading it
was that he means what he said.
Long-term, the prospect of France getting overheated makes Russia that much
more of a factor. If Italy stays 100% against me, then Russian intentions
could really make or break my position. Likewise, France and Russia both
being strong does not work well for England.
I'm certainly not proposing any change in course, far from it. But I hope
that as you and Russia cooperate against Germany, that you can use your
diplomatic prowess to keep Russia somewhat in line.
Thanks again for the information.
Ali
Message from England to Turkey
Ali,
>I'm certainly not proposing any change in course, far from it. But I hope
>that as you and Russia cooperate against Germany, that you can use your
>diplomatic prowess to keep Russia somewhat in line.
Meaning that I should encourage him to attack me after Germany is dead,
rather than attack you?
[Just joking.]
I've been hoping that you and I could hit Russia as Germany was dying or
dead, before Russia decides to team with France against me or Italy against
you.
All this speculation is probably futile. We just need to await actual
developments.
I do admit that I was not fond of Italy's tone.
Ivy
Message from Italy to England
>
> I was about to be squashed by France and Germany when the
> world realized that something had to be done about Italy.
> The same should happen if something needs to be done about
> France.
>
And the key word here is "should". Of course, there is a major hole in your
argument. It assumes a sane Italy who will give up his war against Turkey
and look to stop France from victory. At this point in time, I wouldn't
make that assumption if I were you. You'd be sadly disappointed when it
didn't transpire.
Roberto
Message from Turkey to England
Ivy,
> Meaning that I should encourage him to attack me after Germany is dead,
> rather than attack you?
> [Just joking.]
Heh heh, not at all. I was thinking more in terms of directing him toward
Austria and focusing on the center... rather than on regaining Sev and
focusing to the south.
I've been thinking about what Italian centers make the most sense for me to
attack, if and when the time comes that I might gain anything at all. I've
been thinking more in terms of Gre/Ser than Austria proper -- precisely for
this reason.
> I've been hoping that you and I could hit Russia as Germany was dying or
> dead, before Russia decides to team with France against me or Italy against
> you.
This certainly sounds good to me... let's hope it works out that way.
> All this speculation is probably futile. We just need to await actual
> developments.
All too true, unfortunately.
> I do admit that I was not fond of Italy's tone.
It was interesting, wasn't it? What do you make of it? Any speculation about
what potential causes might be?
Ali
Message from France to England and Russia
I had only heard from Germany and Italy, but just heard
from Turkey today.
I tried to send a note earlier, but it failed.
good luck tonight
--Prince Boar
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
I do take your messages seriously and I have looked at the position again.
I can't conclude that a 4-center England immediately needs to attack a
6-center France to save a 9-center Italy from hardship.
You may wish to create a crisis; it may even be the smartest thing to do in
your situation, but that crisis is not here yet. If and when it does
occur, I think I will be better prepared to attack France than I am at
this instant. I expect to get a couple of German centers fairly quickly.
Ivy
England: Fleet English Channel CONVOY Army Picardy → Holland
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Picardy → Holland
England: Fleet Norway → St Petersburg (north coast)
England: Army Picardy → English Channel → North Sea → Holland
France: Army Belgium SUPPORT English Army Picardy → Holland
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Marseilles → Gulf of Lyon
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → North Africa
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) → Western Mediterranean
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Tunis
Germany: Fleet Denmark → North Sea (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Holland SUPPORT French Army Belgium (*cut, dislodged*)
Germany: Army Livonia → Prussia
Germany: Army Munich → Silesia
Germany: Fleet St Petersburg (south coast) → Gulf of Bothnia
Germany: Army Tyrolia → Munich (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Aegean Sea → Constantinople (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Apulia → Ionian Sea
Italy: Army Budapest → Galicia (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Greece → Bulgaria (south coast) (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Serbia SUPPORT Fleet Greece → Bulgaria (south coast)
Italy: Army Trieste → Vienna
Italy: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea → Rome
Italy: Army Venice → Tyrolia (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Vienna → Bohemia
Russia: Army Moscow → Livonia
Russia: Fleet Sweden → Denmark (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw SUPPORT Army Moscow → Livonia
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Constantinople SUPPORT Army Bulgaria (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Sevastopol → Rumania (*cut*)
Turkey: Army Sevastopol → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Smyrna → Aegean Sea (*bounce*)
|