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Message from Italy to England
Interesting, very interesting.
Message from Master to all
No retreats; F1913M due the evening after Christmas. Have a happy
and safe holiday, everyone!
Doug
masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
for game 'titleist' to Wed Dec 26 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Grace period deadline advanced to Mon Dec 31 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Interesting, very interesting.
Nick has barely begun to explore ways to lose. I anticipated this
somewhat, but once again France has great opportunities.
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to France
King Roger,
How is that for a Christmas gift?
Is he that stupid or that gullible? To put it another way, were you able
to influence Nick's moves?
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to Russia
My, Nick, you certainly are adventurous. I could see it coming, but I
can't see the future easily. After we study the position, I suggest that
we calmly try to determine what might happen next and whether France, once
again, can be stopped.
Ivy
************
Eric,
I'll get back to you asap on the face-to-face. Lots of details need to be
worked out. If you can be the seventh, then the lack of a car shouldn't
stop us. The organizer (not me) is still working on #7.
Allen
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Nick never said boo to me all season. He knew my moves. I have no idea
whatsoever what just happened. I will have to draw a map and take it to
study. I did not ask him to do anything and he never discussed his
moves, future moves, or a future goal.
Were you betrayed by Nick? Are Italy and Russia joining forces? Were
we just declared war on? I am confused.
I will probably check again about 8 PM EST and then off to bed.
I will be back before Xmas and wish you happy holidays then.
When does your son arrive? Have you asked him to drive by my house and
check it out? Wait, you know that I will be out of town ... oops ...
everything will be here when I return? :-) :-) (I am very much
kidding!) We need to talk about optics when I return. I would like to
know more about what your son does. I am beginning to get involved in
making optical films. But I may not be able to mention specifics for a
while.
--King Roger XIII
Message from England to France
King Roger,
>Were you betrayed by Nick?
Yes. No. He acted in character, and I anticipated it. He's erratic and a
gambler.
>Are Italy and Russia joining forces?
When hell freezes over. It can never happen.
>I will be back before Xmas and wish you happy holidays then.
Everyone is coming to our house this year.
>When does your son arrive? Have you asked him to drive by my house and
>check it out?
He doesn't have a car and takes a bus when he comes down. Since we are
getting him a 19-inch monitor for Christmas, we will have to drive him back
after the holidays. Maybe we can touch base then.
Joanne and I are now racing off to see a movie.
Allen/Ivy
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> My, Nick, you certainly are adventurous. I could see it coming, but I
> can't see the future easily. After we study the position, I suggest that
> we calmly try to determine what might happen next and whether France,
> once again, can be stopped.
I expect that you won't believe this, but I looked at StP - Nwy, and
then discarded it as unproductive, and unnecessarily provocative. Your
repeated assurances that your "defensive" moves were "harmless",
however, convinced me that a "forward defense" of St. Petersburg was
needed. I didn't expect you to abandon your stalemate line against
France, just to "defend" against the possibility that I might trade Kiel and
Holland for Denmark and Norway. My concern was that if I moved
StP - Mos, as you moved Nth - Nwy, and then trusted you in the Fall,
you would have ended up owning StP again.
As for this Fall, I'd suggest Iri S Nwg-NAO, Nwy-Swe, at a minimum,
though I suppose Nwy-Fin, Den-Swe is possible as well. Nth S Bel,
Kiel S Mun-Ruh, Ber & Sil S Boh-Mun would also go a long way
toward shoring up our line. I'm sorry that the deadline came and past
while I was sick, but I assure you that I'm experienced enough to know
that going silent is not an effective way to hide a stab. 8-)
Nick.
> ************
> I'll get back to you asap on the face-to-face. Lots of details need to be
> worked out. If you can be the seventh, then the lack of a car shouldn't
> stop us. The organizer (not me) is still working on #7.
Ok, there's a bus from Harrisburg - Lewisburg every day, so if you give
me 24 hours notice, I can be there.
Eric.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>I expect that you won't believe this,
Correct.
Your sudden change of personality plus your general tendency toward bold
moves spelled danger.
> Your repeated assurances that your "defensive" moves were "harmless",
Which they were. Ruhr->Kiel (unsupported) would have bounced harmlessly
had you stayed put. Nao->Nwg threatened nothing of yours; it only enabled
me to recover Norway should you take it (which I expected). Had you
remained an ally, I could have supported Nwg back to Nao with no harm done.
>however, convinced me that a "forward defense" of St. Petersburg was needed.
The move to Silesia defends StP well also.
>I didn't expect you to abandon your stalemate line against France,
If I destroy a unit, it will be either Iri or the Channel. That will leave
only one of my fleets manning the Nao-Iri-Channel line.
>just to "defend" against the possibility that I might trade Kiel and
>Holland for Denmark and Norway.
I was defending against the attack which was coming. Give me a little
credit. Also, "trade" is inadequate. A good ally would have been offering
me one of your centers, probably Holland, to compensate for the gains you
make in the southeast. The lack of such an offer was the greatest tip-off.
>As for this Fall, I'd suggest Iri S Nwg-NAO, Nwy-Swe, at a minimum,
>though I suppose Nwy-Fin, Den-Swe is possible as well. Nth S Bel,
>Kiel S Mun-Ruh, Ber & Sil S Boh-Mun would also go a long way
>toward shoring up our line.
I don't trust you, and nothing you say will change that. We have a mess on
our hands. I haven't figured out just what to do yet, but Belgium->Holland
is certain, with France picking up Belgium. Nor can I afford to move Nwg
back to Nao yet.
Our best bet is you moving to Finland and Sweden as you suggest with me
picking up Kiel and Holland. With my loss of Belgium, I could still build
a fleet in Liverpool. That will be essential, because France will probable
have a forward fleet in Nao or Iri or the Channel and will be bringing up
other fleets.
>I'm sorry that the deadline came and past
>while I was sick, but I assure you that I'm experienced enough to know
>that going silent is not an effective way to hide a stab. 8-)
Right, it is not effective.
You sure are entertaining. Roger was rather depressed. Now he is excited
again.
Ivy
>> ************
>
>> I'll get back to you asap on the face-to-face. Lots of details need to be
>> worked out. If you can be the seventh, then the lack of a car shouldn't
>> stop us. The organizer (not me) is still working on #7.
>
>Ok, there's a bus from Harrisburg - Lewisburg every day, so if you give
>me 24 hours notice, I can be there.
>
>Eric.
You'll have much greater notice than that.
Allen
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> Your sudden change of personality plus your general tendency toward bold
> moves spelled danger.
My sudden change of personality? I'm not sure what you're referring to
here.
My silence? Or something else.
> > Your repeated assurances that your "defensive" moves were "harmless",
> Which they were. Ruhr->Kiel (unsupported) would have bounced harmlessly
> had you stayed put. Nao->Nwg threatened nothing of yours; it only enabled
> me to recover Norway should you take it (which I expected). Had you
> remained an ally, I could have supported Nwg back to Nao with no harm
done.
You were talking about exchanging Centers in the north to balance my gains
in
the south. That means Hol, Kie, and perhaps Swe. I pulled back from Kiel,
to make the exchange possible while getting my Fleet to Swe to hold that if
I felt
it was necessary. If you had wanted to bounce Ruh off RF Kiel, you should
have said so.
> >however, convinced me that a "forward defense" of St. Petersburg was
needed.
> The move to Silesia defends StP well also.
I'm not sure I understand this, either, but I suspect it's sarcasm. The
move to
Sil, defends War, defends Mun, and positions me to move to Boh if necessary
or possible. Yes, in combination with A Pru, it also threatens Berlin, but
to what
point? If I stab you, one of two things happens, I end up facing EFI, our I
end
up facing EI as F solos behind you.
> >I didn't expect you to abandon your stalemate line against France,
> >just to "defend" against the possibility that I might trade Kiel and
> >Holland for Denmark and Norway.
> I was defending against the attack which was coming. Give me a little
> credit. Also, "trade" is inadequate. A good ally would have been
offering
> me one of your centers, probably Holland, to compensate for the gains you
> make in the southeast. The lack of such an offer was the greatest
tip-off.
What attack?!?!? I take Nwy, Den, and Ber, you take Kie, and Hol, and
Italy turns on me like the rabid dog that he is? And again, I'm sorry that
I
got sick this weekend, and was home sick yesterday, and that my wife was
on the PC almost all day yesterday (at least when I was awake). I moved
Kie-Den, expecting you to move Ber-Kie, I'm sorry that we didn't have a
chance to discuss it. If I was attacking you, wouldn't I have attacked
Italy
at the same time to try to keep him from turning on me?
> I don't trust you, and nothing you say will change that. We have a mess
on
> our hands. I haven't figured out just what to do yet, but
Belgium->Holland
> is certain, with France picking up Belgium. Nor can I afford to move Nwg
> back to Nao yet.
*shrug* As I said to Italy, I can't keep you from throwing the game to
France, but it would be awfully ironic for you to do it when I'm not even
attacking you.
> Our best bet is you moving to Finland and Sweden as you suggest with me
> picking up Kiel and Holland. With my loss of Belgium, I could still build
> a fleet in Liverpool. That will be essential, because France will
probable
> have a forward fleet in Nao or Iri or the Channel and will be bringing up
> other fleets.
No, that's plain stupid. If I move to Fin and Swe, then there's no reason
for you to give Belgium to France, or not move back to NAO. Nth S Bel,
Iri S Nwg-NAO, Kie S Mun-Ruh, Sil S Boh-Mun, and ECh retreats to
Wal, build F Lon if France takes the Channel, otherwise, build A Lon,
and convoy it to Hol next Spring.
> >I'm sorry that the deadline came and past while I was sick,
> >but I assure you that I'm experienced enough to know
> >that going silent is not an effective way to hide a stab. 8-)
>
> Right, it is not effective.
Then, OBVIOUSLY, what I did was NOT a STAB!!! My JDPR might be
200 points lower than yours, but it's still above 1500, so don't react as if
I'm
some rank newbie, who says, "Oooh, look! I'm adjacent to two Centers
that I don't own! I'll move into them!" As I said, in my earlier letter,
I
looked at StP-Nwy right after builds, and rejected it because it would not
have advanced my position. I came back to it, only because your letters to
me were so clearly screaming, "I know you're going to stab me so I'm going
to move against you!" You moved Ruh-Kie expecting it to bounce, and I
moved StP-Nwy expecting it to bounce. Guess what? We were both
wrong. Does this mean we have to self-destruct in some pointless border
clash as Roger Yonkowski (JDPR 1818) cruises to yet another solo? I
hope not. I ask you to stop; listen to what I'm saying, and look at the
board. Do you see any way for me to win by stabbing you in S1913M?
Even if you didn't anticipate it? I understand that my silence worried you,
and that you reacted to it. And again, I am sorry for my silence, but I'm
talking now, and it's a new turn, so let's take the board position as it
stands, and do what is necessary to keep France from winning. That
has to be our primary goal, or we're going to be really embarrassed
every time someone goes to the Showcase section of the Pouch. 8-)
Come on, Ivy, I'm a challenge to work with, and I'm difficult to predict,
but I'm not stupid, and stabbing you would have been profoundly dumb.
Your Friend,
and Ally,
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Russia is poised to take 3 centers from Italy. I presume that you and
he are trading Hol/Kie for Den/Swe. Was that agreed to?
You do realize that after this turn Russia is likely to be at 11
centers. He will have a surplus of units in the Balkans, I will have
3. He can then proceed to take my 4 remaining units and is probably
poised to press for a victory run.
My question for you is what are we going to do about it?
--King Roger XIII
I am gone for 3-4 days now.
Message from England to France
King Roger,
>Russia is poised to take 3 centers from Italy. I presume that you and
>he are trading Hol/Kie for Den/Swe. Was that agreed to?
No, it was not agreed to. Russia is going for Scandinavia, Berlin,
etc. The works.
>You do realize that after this turn Russia is likely to be at 11
>centers. He will have a surplus of units in the Balkans, I will have
>3. He can then proceed to take my 4 remaining units and is probably
>poised to press for a victory run.
He probably thinks so, but you are still more dangerous than he
is. Besides, you are better.
>My question for you is what are we going to do about it?
I think "we" is mostly "you."
You have a choice. You can try to take advantage of my distraction by
attacking Belgium or Ruhr or Munich and trying to slip a fleet somewhere
into the Nao-Iri-Channel line. Or you can anticipate the need to head off
Russia's "victory run," as you put it. You could permit me to defend in
the north -- I certainly won't be attacking you -- and make moves such as
WesMed->Tyrhennian and Paris->Burgundy->Marseillles->Piedmont.
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>My sudden change of personality? I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
>My silence? Or something else.
Silence, followed by five messages on Tuesday none of which mentioned
specific moves. That was totally unlike you when we were cooperating.
>You were talking about exchanging Centers in the north to balance my gains
>in the south.
No so. I never suggested an exchange. Recheck the mail. I said,
"Remember, if you grow, I wish to grow in tandem. That's easily done." In
a later message I said, " ...nor has there been any reply to my strong hint
that you and I need to stay relatively equal in strength if your plan is
anti-Italy instead of anti-France."
>If I stab you, one of two things happens, I end up facing EFI, our I
>end up facing EI as F solos behind you.
If you haven't stabbed me, then by a terrible accident you have stumbled
into two of my supply centers and have advanced on Berlin. It can be
undone. We both know how to work with each other in spite of past differences.
>got sick this weekend, and was home sick yesterday, and that my wife was
>on the PC almost all day yesterday (at least when I was awake).
I know. However, I received five messages from you
yesterday. 1-2-3-4-5. Did any of them discuss moves or offer me
compensation for your gains against Italy?
>*shrug* As I said to Italy, I can't keep you from throwing the game to
>France, but it would be awfully ironic for you to do it when I'm not even
>attacking you.
Of course I will not throw the game to France if you change your mind about
attacking me. Move those units back to StP and Sweden and Warsaw and you
will have me back in your camp.
>No, that's plain stupid. If I move to Fin and Swe, then there's no reason
>for you to give Belgium to France, or not move back to NAO. Nth S Bel,
>Iri S Nwg-NAO, Kie S Mun-Ruh, Sil S Boh-Mun, and ECh retreats to
>Wal, build F Lon if France takes the Channel, otherwise, build A Lon,
>and convoy it to Hol next Spring.
I will only agree to wait a turn and watch your moves. Anyway, I have
absolutely no control over Italian units. Italy will wait to see whether
you stay in Sevastopol before even discussing anything.
> And again, I am sorry for my silence, but I'm
>talking now, and it's a new turn, so let's take the board position as it
>stands, and do what is necessary to keep France from winning.
Good. That's my kind of talk. We should be OK after the fall moves have
rectified the situation.
>Come on, Ivy, I'm a challenge to work with
I have never met a good player as difficult as you. I guess that's a
compliment of sorts.
>and stabbing you would have been profoundly dumb.
Let's put it this way. You did not stab me. You accidentally found
yourself in two of my supply centers and have advanced upon a third. You
did not do anything stupid, but unfortunately you need to back up a
little. I am requesting moves that gain me a unit this year to compensate
for your growth in the southeast.
Most cordially,
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Roberto, and Ivy,
Sil-Gal, Bud S Tri-Ser, Ukr S Bla-Rum would destroy
the French Army in Rum. If we combined that with
Vie-Tri, Boh-Vie, you wouldn't have to disband. I
guess the other possibility would be Tri S Bud-Ser,
Sev-Arm, Ukr-Gal(?), Ank S Bla-Con. That would not
destroy the French Army but would still leave you
at 5 or 6 Centers, and it would allow Kie S Mun-Ruh,
Sil S Boh-Mun to shore up the western defenses. We
have time to ponder and dicuss options, but I wanted
to offer my initial thoughts for discussion.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Nick and I appear to be having a private war of words. Sound
familiar? Perhaps you care to mediate? 8-) 8-)
His suggested moves don't seem to be crazy, but I have not analyzed whether
or not there is a way for him to take advantage of you if you do make those
moves. As for me, I need to see Russia pull back from Norway, Denmark, and
Silesia.
What are my odds?
Ivy
Message from Italy to England and Russia
> We have time to ponder and dicuss options, but I
> wanted to offer my initial thoughts for discussion.
>
Still reviewing Nick's suggestions. At first glance, they look like a good
starting point.
I am curious about the following however:
> Movement results for Spring of 1913. (titleist.050)
>
> England: Army Ruhr -> Kiel.
> Russia: Fleet Kiel -> Denmark.
> Russia: Army St Petersburg -> Norway.
Is there some kind of cooperation going on here that I was unaware of. Mind
you, I don't need to know how you want to deal with your northern units, but
were all of these moves expected? If the status quo remains thru the fall,
Ivy has to disband and I don't really see a viable English disband if we
expect to hold back France in the west.
Roberto
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>Silence, followed by five messages on Tuesday none of which mentioned
>specific moves. That was totally
>unlike you when we were cooperating.
I was late, you hadn't mentioned any specific moves,
there was no area where our forces were operating
together, I was replying to your mail, and I addressed
moves with Roberto. It sounds as though you believed
you were going to be stabbed, and interpreted what I
did and said from that perspective.
> >You were talking about exchanging Centers in the north >to balance my
>gains in the south.
>No so. I never suggested an exchange. Recheck the mail.
By "exchange" I meant you take my northern Centers as I
take southern Centers from France and/or Italy.
>If you haven't stabbed me, then by a terrible accident you have stumbled
>into two of my supply
>centers and have advanced on Berlin.
Kiel-Den is hardly an "advance" on your Centers.
Indeed, it was done to facilitate your taking my
German Centers as I advanced in the South. Moving
into your Centers in the Spring is not a "stab",
unless I intend to, and am capable of holding them
in the Fall. That's not my intention, and it's
beyond my capability.
>I received five messages from you yesterday. Did any of them discuss moves
>or offer me
>compensation for your gains against Italy?
I was late. Negotiating about moves while late is
against the House Rules. I broke that rule with
Italy to coordinate our Austrian moves, but since
you had offered no plans for the Spring, beyond your
stated intention to "harmlessly" defend, I didn't
feel it was appropriate to further hold up the turn
to discuss "compensation".
>Move those units back to StP and Sweden and Warsaw and you will have me
>back in your camp.
No. I will move to Fin and Swe, but I will not block
my Home Centers on a Fall move.
>I will only agree to wait a turn and watch your moves.
That's not good enough. France is STILL at 13 Centers,
(actually 15, if you count Rum and Bul), if you give
him Bel, and give him access to England, he could
solo next year.
>We should be OK after the fall moves have
>rectified the situation.
Not unless you defend Bel, and return to NAO.
> > stabbing you would have been profoundly dumb.
>You did not stab me. You accidentally found
>yourself in two of my supply centers and have
>advanced upon a third.
No! There is a third, and much more reasonable
explanation. I pulled back from Kiel so that
you could take it, and I moved StP-Nwy to keep
you from moving Nth-Nwy and threatening StP.
I moved War-Sil to help defend Munich from French
attack as you took Kiel, and to be in position to
support you into Mun, or move into Austria if and
when we decided to attack Italy. Keep in mind
that your Army in Berlin is further away from
your Home Centers than any Unit of mine is, so
it's exceedingly difficult for me to move away
from my Home Centers, without advancing on yours.
>I am requesting moves that gain me a unit this year to compensate for your
>growth in the southeast.
Kie HOLD (or S Mun-Ruh), Nth S Bel, Nwg-NAO, Den-Swe,
Swe-Fin, does just that without completely wrecking
(y)our line against France.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Roberto,
>Still reviewing Nick's suggestions. At first glance, they look like a good
>starting point.
>
>I am curious about the following however:
>
> > England: Army Ruhr -> Kiel.
> > Russia: Fleet Kiel -> Denmark.
> > Russia: Army St Petersburg -> Norway.
>
>Is there some kind of cooperation going on here that I was unaware of.
No cooperation. None of these moves were ever discussed in advance. I was
expecting a stab. I moved Ruhr->Kiel and Nao-Nwg, because I believed that
Nick was going to pull some funny stuff. Both moves were harmless if Nick
made selfless moves. Nick reassures me that there was no stab. His moves,
including Warsaw->Silesia, which threatens Berlin, were described as
"forward defense" -- his words.
Ok. So there was no stab, but Nick does find himself in two of my supply
centers, Norway and Denmark, and is accidentally bearing down on
Berlin. Perhaps, good Roberto, you can persuade him to move back again,
after which I will do my best to restore the defense line against France.
I too think he has made some interesting suggestions for moves.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to England and Russia in 'titleist':
>I am curious about the following however:
> > Movement results for Spring of 1913. (titleist.050)
> >
> > England: Army Ruhr -> Kiel.
> > Russia: Fleet Kiel -> Denmark.
> > Russia: Army St Petersburg -> Norway.
>Is there some kind of cooperation going on here that I was unaware of.
>Mind you, I don't need to know how you want to deal with your northern
>units, but
>were all of these moves expected? If the status quo remains thru the fall,
>Ivy has to disband and I don't really see a viable English disband if we
>expect to
>hold back France in the west.
Ivy was concerned about my silence, and told me that
he was submitting "harmless" defensive moves as a
precaution. I assumed that meant Nth-Nwy, and since
I did not want him adjacent to StP, I ordered StP-Nwy
to bounce it. Kie-Den was just pulling back on the
way to Swe. Ivy claims Ruh-Kie was supposed to bounce
off F Kiel (and cut Kiel S Pru-Ber, though he didn't
mention that part. 8-) This is one of those examples
of why communication is so important. It looks like
a full out war, when neither of us wanted that. We
are discussing ways to disengage. Care to mediate,
Roberto? ;^}
Nick.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from England to Italy and Russia in 'titleist':
>Nick reassures me that there was no stab. His moves,
>including Warsaw->Silesia, which threatens Berlin,
>were described as "forward defense" -- his words.
Again, a matter of perspective, the move to Sil was
intended to allow Sil S Mun, and free up Boh and Ber
to move to Tyl and Kie. I'm sorry that I didn't have
time to explain my thought processes to you both.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Roberto, Nick,
Since I am quite upset, and since Roger is out of town anyway, I am going
to take a couple of days to calm down. If Roberto has anything to say, I
should be able to respond to him.
Talk won't help much in situations like this anyway. Unilateral moves got
us into the situation and unilateral moves will extract us. It shouldn't
be hard.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Ivy, and Roberto,
Ivy Wrote >
>Since I am quite upset, I am going to take a couple
>of days to calm down. If Roberto has anything to say, I should be able to
>respond to him.
Ok, hopefully when you've calmed down you can
consider my proposed solution with an open mind.
I'm available to discuss options with Roberto,
if he'd care to mediate.
Nick.
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>Since I am quite upset ...
That is literally false. I just don't feel like listening to his blabber
for a few days.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Italy to England and Russia
Gentlemen,
I'm available to mediate, but I need some time to think. I don't want to
make any rash comments without exploring all sides and options. I don't
want to add fuel to the fire. Feel free to send more information publicly
or privately that you feel would help me in the mediation process.
I have been called to jury duty the week of Dec. 26th so I may ask that the
deadline be pushed back if necessary.
Roberto
Message from Italy to England
> Movement results for Fall of 1912.
> Russia: Army Livonia -> Prussia.
>
> Movement results for Spring of 1913. (titleist.050)
> Russia: Army Prussia SUPPORT Army Warsaw -> Silesia.
> Russia: Army Warsaw -> Silesia.
>
> Message from Russia to Italy and England in 'titleist':
>
> [snip] and since I did not want him adjacent to StP, [snip]
>
This is what rubs Roberto the wrong way about Nick. He doesn't want you
anywhere near the centers he owns but he doesn't see any problem if he moves
next to one of your centers and is even willing to use force to get there.
> Message from Russia to England and Italy in 'titleist':
>
> [snip] the move to Sil was intended to allow Sil S Mun,
> and free up Boh and Ber to move to Tyl and Kie. [snip]
>
Hmmm. Prussia-Silesia would have done the trick, no?
----------------------
I have no doubts his plan is/was to stay in NOR, DEN, SEV and take a shot at
BER, RUM, SER to become the dominant power. Perhaps even an unstoppable
power. Note his suggested southern moves were an attempt to get rid of the
French RUM army thus allowing him even more freedom for his growing armies.
The boy needs to be taught a lesson and I think I know just the two who can
teach him a lesson.
I think we ought to remain calm, accept his suggestions with perhaps slight
alteration so that it doesn't look like we're going on blind faith, and then
see how he reacts when we take HOL,NOR,VIE,TRI from him and he has to
disband.
France and I actually had a cordial conversation before he left town. I
think there is the possibility of mutual self-interest in stopping Russian
growth in the southeast so it's not out of the question that I couldn't
broker a deal with him again. In all honesty, if I'm to lose this
game/tournament, I'd much prefer losing to France than to Russia.
Roberto
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>I have no doubts his plan is/was to stay in NOR, DEN, SEV and take a shot at
>BER, RUM, SER to become the dominant power.
I think so.
>France and I actually had a cordial conversation before he left town.
Ditto. Roger is so much smoother than Nick. He has gotten himself into a
great position while maintaining respect and without making permanent enemies.
> In all honesty, if I'm to lose this game/tournament, I'd much prefer
> losing to France than to Russia.
Absolutely. If there is to be a solo, then let it be France. That's easy
to agree to.
Here's the hard part -- making sure there is no solo at all. Therefore,
when it comes to teaching the boy a lesson, I think we need to be very
careful. He is so temperamental that, if we come down too hard on him, he
could throw the game to France himself.
France's letter to me played up the possibility that now Russia could be
the solo threat. Actually, France overstated the immediate danger a bit,
but that's to be expected. The point of my response, which France probably
has not read yet, was that France should not now try to exploit possible
weakness at Ruhr, Belgium, and the ocean frontier if he needs me to fend
off Russia.
>Note his suggested southern moves were an attempt to get rid of the
>French RUM army thus allowing him even more freedom for his growing armies.
Yes, but some of Russia's proposed moves appeal to me a bit. I like moves
that deepen conflict between Russia and France, because each of them will
then need you and me more.
For example, Russia suggested
>Sil-Gal, Bud S Tri-Ser, Ukr S Bla-Rum would destroy
>the French Army in Rum. If we combined that with
>Vie-Tri, Boh-Vie, you wouldn't have to disband.
Notice, however, that Sevastopol is not mentioned in the above. I think
Russia is taking it, period.
The moves would give Sevastopol and Serbia to Russia and give Rumania to
you. If we can quietly ask France to take Trieste, then I think Russia
does not gain too much, and we may be able to count on French help in the
future. At the same time, the destruction of the French army in Rumania
leaves France weaker from an offensive (read "solo") point of view.
>I think we ought to remain calm, accept his suggestions with perhaps slight
>alteration so that it doesn't look like we're going on blind faith, and then
>see how he reacts when we take HOL,NOR,VIE,TRI from him and he has to
>disband.
Somehow, I hope that Nick feels chastened, but not provoked to
self-destructive retribution. I don't think I want him to disband. Right
now, I am leaning toward Belgium->Holland, and NorthSea supp Kiel->Denmark
with perhaps mutual support between Berlin and Munich.
Ivy
Message from Russia to England, France, and Italy
Gentlemen,
I'm taking tomorrow (12/21) off from work, in order to
do my Christmas shopping, (and to see Lord of the Rings),
and then I am taking my son to see Jimmy Neutron, Boy
Genius, on Saturday, and will let him pick out a gift
for his mother. The Governor has given State Employees
Monday, Christmas Eve, off, and of course, Christmas is
a holiday, as well, so I won't be back in the office
until the 26th. I will check mail most, if not all of
those days, and will respond, if anyone writes, but my
availability will be somewhat more limited than it
usually is. If I don't hear from you before then, I
hope that those of you who celebrate Christmas have a
very merry one.
Eric.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
By this time tomorrow there will be 16 people in our house, and it will
stay hectic for a few days after that. So, maybe I ought to get off a
message while I can.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, the best I can come up with is that
your last moves were, shall we say, deliberately flexible. Consistent with
goals of stopping France, or eliminating Italy, or going for glory.
You know that I have voted twice for draw. This was based on no chance for
solo plus the apparant achievement of the only resonable goal open to me,
stopping France.
Since the game continues, my only wish in continuing our partnership is
that we stay even. That means one of us is no more than one unit ahead of
the other. That's why your last moves were so scary to me. You know,
internally, what your goals are. If they include numerical superiority
over me, then it is certain that we will be at war. And I can't maintain
my standoff with France if I have to fight you. That became clear with my
last moves.
The upcoming moves will be critical in that they will reveal to all just
what you have in mind. I have to assume that you are staying in
Sevastopol. It's hard to believe otherwise. Going into this year you had
8 to my 7. If collectively we are to have 16 at the end of the year then I
want it to be 8 to 8. More likely it might be 9 to 8, since you have so
many opportunities.
I don't expect you to tell me your moves. It wouldn't do any good anyway.
I wish to see your moves, not hear about them. I will say that I do like
the plan of destroying the French army in Rumania.
Nor will I be able to tell you my moves. Indeed, I don't know what they
will be myself, and I don't have the time or stomach for debate. I just
know that we have to undo the mess from the spring, and I probably cannot
afford to be completely passive about it.
Seasons tidings,
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Ivy and Roberto,
> Message from England to Russia in 'titleist':
(I'm including Italy in this reply in hopes that he can moderate.)
> Giving you the benefit of the doubt, the best I can come up with is that
> your last moves were, shall we say, deliberately flexible. Consistent
with
> goals of stopping France, or eliminating Italy, or going for glory.
I was sick, I was late, I didn't analyze my moves beyond immediate tactical
goals, (defending my centers, opening my Home Centers for builds, moving
toward the front). I didn't stop to think, "What if Ivy DOESN'T order Nth
to Nwy? How will he react to StP-Nwy?" If I stab you, France Solos, if
I attack Italy instead of France, France wins tournament in a walk, if I
take
French Centers in the Med, I have a chance to have the most Centers in the
Draw, and the tournament victory. It seems like an obvious choice to me.
> You know that I have voted twice for draw. This was based on no
> chance for solo plus the apparent achievement of the only reasonable
> goal open to me, stopping France.
>
> Since the game continues, my only wish in continuing our partnership is
> that we stay even. That means one of us is no more than one unit ahead
> of the other. That's why your last moves were so scary to me. You
> know, internally, what your goals are. If they include numerical
> superiority over me, then it is certain that we will be at war. And I
can't
> maintain my standoff with France if I have to fight you. That became
> clear with my last moves.
If I fight you, France Solos, why would I want that? I understand your
desire to stay even, but as Italy and I take Med Centers from France, he'll
be forced to disband, and while he might disband Med Units, and let Italy
back into his Home Centers, it's also possible that he could disband in the
west, giving you growth opportunities greater than or equal to my own, so
I am hesitant to give you all of my northern Centers at a pace of your
choosing. Kie-Den was intended as a signal that I was ceding Kiel, and
Holland to you; StP-Nwy was intended to defend StP and Swe until we
know where France will disband.
> The upcoming moves will be critical in that they will reveal to all just
> what you have in mind. I have to assume that you are staying in
> Sevastopol. It's hard to believe otherwise. Going into this year you
> had 8 to my 7. If collectively we are to have 16 at the end of the year
> then I want it to be 8 to 8. More likely it might be 9 to 8, since you
> have so many opportunities.
I laid out my ideas for moves to you both. I'm willing to let Italy choose
moves for the Alliance, as you did last year.
> I don't expect you to tell me your moves. It wouldn't do any good
> anyway. I wish to see your moves, not hear about them. I will say
> that I do like the plan of destroying the French army in Rumania.
I'm comfortable with either option I laid out, or some variation on them.
> Nor will I be able to tell you my moves. Indeed, I don't know what
> they will be myself, and I don't have the time or stomach for debate.
> I just know that we have to undo the mess from the spring, and I
> probably cannot afford to be completely passive about it.
It seems to me that our first goal still has to be stopping the French Solo.
He's still at 13 Centers, and he's still Roger Yonkoski. Nwy-Fin,
Den-Swe, leaves you up a Center as long as you order Nth S Bel. I
urge you to discuss this with Roberto, and accept his advice.
In Alliance,
and Friendship,
Happy Holidays,
Nick/Eric.
Message from France to England
Allen:
I do not plan to take advantage of (as Russia puts it) your overreacting
to Russia's moves by stealing Belgium or try to slip fleets into your
backside. I am sure that you will be very happy with my moves (in the
short term). Ultimately I will have to decide what to do. On two or
three occasions Russia has suggested a two-way draw. I have always said
that it was impractical or that I was happy with the three-way. I guess
that he is taking matters into his own hands. I may have to eventually
consider it. I think that ultimately the game would end in a solo by
one of us. You will be the deciding factor in that. But I am getting
ahead of myself here. My goal right now is to prevent Russia from
running away with the solo and then we can talk about the appropriate
game ending.
I asked Roberto for two things: a unit in Armenia and to order Vienna to
Budapest. Both of these are important to prevent Russia from running
all over the Balkans and Turkey. The Balkans, Turkey, Austria, Russia,
and Scandinavia makes 17. One German or Italy center would be required
for the solo. Can you help me convince him to make these moves. I
promised him that as long as he was helping me against Russia, I would
not attack you.
Have a very Merry Christmas (if you celebrate it)
--King Roger XIII
PS: Let me know about your plans for traveling to Rochester.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>Besides, you are better.
Thanks for the sentiment, but I am not sure what you base this on. I
was given most of my centers, he tricked and fought his way to all of
his. I have squandered all of my opportunities for victory. He has
done more with less. Also, the power Russia is always the most
dangerous when it gets to medium size because it has access to so many
parts of Europe. I am not sure that there is a decent stalemate line,
if it came down to it.
>I think "we" is mostly "you."
Aye, but you have to do your part also. You will eventually have to
choose what you expose.
>You have a choice.
I will not attack you or Munich.
--King Roger XIII
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Roger gives me assurances that he will not attack Bulgaria or Munich or try
to slip fleets into my backsides. I believe him. That is, I believe that
he will not do it on this particular this turn.
He went on to say, "On two or three occasions Russia has suggested a
two-way draw. I have always said that it was impractical or that I was
happy with the three-way. I guess that he is taking matters into his own
hands. I may have to eventually consider it. I think that ultimately the
game would end in a solo by one of us. You will be the deciding factor in
that."
Then more: "I asked Roberto for two things: a unit in Armenia and to order
Vienna to Budapest. Both of these are important to prevent Russia from
running
all over the Balkans and Turkey. The Balkans, Turkey, Austria, Russia,
and Scandinavia makes 17."
But Russia is far from 17. Just because he has eight, and eight plus nine
equals 17, does not mean that Russia is on the brink of victory.
Nevertheless, Roger wants me to join with him in convincing you to work
against Russia.
With Roger at 13 and Nick at 8, I still believe that France is by far the
more dangerous of the two. That he is the more likeable of the two only
matters if and when you and I have to throw in the towel.
Where does this leave us? Here are some possible moves for me:
Nwg hold
Nth supp Bel
Kiel->Holland
Berlin->Kiel
Irish supp Channel
Channel supp Belgium
Belgium holds
France surely wants you to cut Budapest so he can take Trieste. I don't
mind so much if he takes Trieste, if he loses that dangerous army in
Rumania at the same time. What do you think would France's attitude toward
us would be if that happened?
I know that you are in a bind. I am not much better off. Right now I
think we have the best chance if France and Russia lose all trust in each
other.
I should be able to check e-mail fairly frequently through Wednesday, when
the moves are due. So it doesn't matter when you get back to me, even at
the last minute.
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to France
King Roger,
>Can you help me convince him to make these moves. I
>promised him that as long as he was helping me against Russia, I would
>not attack you.
I guess that gives me extra motivation to convince Italy!
With you at 13 and Russia at 8, anyone would still have to regard your
threat as the much greater threat. Nevertheless, Russia's last moves have
changed the game. Is Russia willing to discard the cooperation, such as it
was, that prevailed briefly? I will see what I can do with Roberto. I do
know that he was upset (again) with Russia after the last moves.
>Have a very Merry Christmas (if you celebrate it)
We do. I do miss the kind of Christmas that comes with the presence of
small children.
>PS: Let me know about your plans for traveling to Rochester.
OK, but we don't know ourselves yet.
Allen/Ivy
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>>Can you help me convince him to make these moves. I
>>promised him that as long as he was helping me against Russia, I would
>>not attack you.
>I guess that gives me extra motivation to convince Italy!
My reason is that I wish to save my army in Rumania and defend Serbia
and Greece. I just cannot get enough forces over there fast enough to
prevent Russia from taking control. If I lose another and Italy helps
Russia, then he will easily get to 15-17 centers, real fast.
Russia's basic story is that he was sick and you were "threatening him"
with "non-threatening defensive moves". A nice spin. Against a
collection of newbies it might even have worked. I saw right through
it, I assume that you did as well.
Russia admits that he needs to worry about my soloing but that he has a
very good chance at ending the game with the most units. Maybe he does.
As I ponder the game, I honestly think that you best option is to pick
one of us and let us be large. That keeps the other one in line. If
you end up with us even in strength, we can slowly whittle you down in a
safer fashion, with less risk of the other soloing. When one is large,
the other must behave or lose!
You have to think about which one of us you would least like to be
large. I do remind you that Russia can be difficult, unreasonable, and
stubborn. He also was very sneaky in playing his double agent for the
last 3-4 years. Meanwhile, I have proven myself to be a terrible
tactician. So the choice is obvious, you would rather have me be the
larger power :-)
Do what you can with Roberto. I think that he can survive in Munich and
Ankara for a long time. I know that he is unlikely to survive the
draw. Whereas I stated that I would never vote for the 4-way draw, I
ended up being more reasonable in a couple days. Nick on the other hand
is truly the player who will never vote for it, and likely no other draw
that does not give him the tournament win. He might not even settle for
the largest power in a draw, trying to get the glory of a solo in this
game.
--King Roger XIII
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Gentlemen,
Well, we have eighteen hours. Is there any chance we
can agree to keep France from winning one more time?
Nick.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
The deadline is tonight. Have your heard from Roberto?
Do you expect to hear from him?
--King Roger XIII
Message from England to France
>Russia's basic story is that he was sick and you were "threatening him"
>with "non-threatening defensive moves". A nice spin. Against a
>collection of newbies it might even have worked. I saw right through
>it, I assume that you did as well.
Russia'a basic story was worthless. A bit of an insult to one's
intelligence even. Of course he had to say something, and after the fact
what could he say?
>As I ponder the game, I honestly think that you best option is to pick
>one of us and let us be large. That keeps the other one in line. If
>you end up with us even in strength, we can slowly whittle you down in a
>safer fashion, with less risk of the other soloing. When one is large,
>the other must behave or lose!
I haven't thought much about this game in the past week, but the following
has occurred to me. What if I am small and Russia and England are reducing
me? Then I must announce to one of them that I will throw the game to the
other unless I get cooperation. A time-honored strategy. Do I tell Russia
that I will throw the game to England because I like England much better,
which I certainly do? Actually no. Russia is irrational and I cannot
reason with him. Better to tell England that I will throw the game to
Russia, because I can talk to England. He is reasonable and rational.
That maximizes my chance to survive.
>You have to think about which one of us you would least like to be
>large. I do remind you that Russia can be difficult, unreasonable, and
>stubborn.
Exactly. Better that he be large, so you and I can cooperate to stop him. No?
[I am just thinking out loud here and permitting you to listen in. But it
seems to make sense.]
***********
>The deadline is tonight. Have your heard from Roberto?
>Do you expect to hear from him?
No. Yes. He is supposed to coordinate the REI moves, since Russia and I
aren't exactly speaking. That's all a bit of fiction of course.
I will send Italy another messsage.
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to Italy and Russia
Nick, Roberto,
I hope you both have been enjoying the season.
> Is there any chance we can agree to keep France from winning one more time?
France's threat is not nearly so great as it was just one year ago. The
greatest likelihood of a French victory would present itself if Nick's
moves confirmed selfish ambition on his part, and Roberto and I were placed
in the position of having to choose a winner. The game could end quickly
if that happened.
In spite of the very serious differences that Nick and I are having, I
still like his strategy of destroying the French army in Rumania. That
reduces France's chances even more.
I am going to write to Roberto privately, and I assume Nick will do the
same. I hope that Roberto and I can agree on England's moves and that the
two of you can agree on moves for Russia.
Ivy/Allen
Message from France to England
Ivy:
>Exactly. Better that he be large, so you and I can
>cooperate to stop him. No?
This is of course your option. Is the irrational player
more dangerous with a risk of winning or the need for
cooperation? Do you want to risk his winning or my
winning? Tough choices.
You can count on my moves. I will behave and act as
promised up to the point where I can force a victory. I
will not risk acting sooner. What about Russia?
Also keep in mind that to allow Russia to get larger, you
will be removing the forces that I have in the east,
necessary to prevent his solo. I have promised Roberto
not to attack you if he is working with me against
Russia. If he does take advantage of me instead, I will
likely be forced to attack you in order to maintain my
position. I would have to settle for the FR
two-way possibilities knowing that Russia will eventually
get all of the Balkans and Turkey and my only hope is
England. I really do not want to go down this road, so I
am arguing for the other one.
--King Roger XIII
PS: You must be getting into your other game as France
because you referred to me as England (not France)
throughout your last message while thinking out loud :-)
:-)
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
Earlier I wrote:
>Here are some possible moves for me:
>
>Nwg hold
>Nth supp Bel
>Kiel->Holland
>Berlin->Kiel
>Irish supp Channel
>Channel supp Belgium
>Belgium holds
I have another set of moves that I now prefer.
Nth supp Nwg->Norway
Berlin holds
Kiel->Holland
Irish supp Channel
Channel supp Belgium
Belgium holds
This leaves Kiel in Russian hands, so that I do not take two Russian
centers if he actually vacates Norway and Denmark voluntarily. If I do net
one unit from Russia by this (Holland), then I can build a fleet in
Liverpool.
If Russia is madly aggressive and tries to hold his ground in Norway and
Denmark and attack Berlin at the same time, then Berlin can retreat to Kiel
and take it. In the meantime I have Norway.
Allen/Ivy
Message from Russia to England and Italy
Ivy, and Roberto,
Ivy Wrote >
>France's threat is not nearly so great as it was The greatest likelihood of
>a French victory would
>present itself if Nick's moves confirmed selfish
>ambition on his part, and Roberto and I were placed in the position of
>having to choose a winner. The game could end quickly
I tire of explaining why I moved as I did this Spring,
so I'll just refer you to my earlier letters. 8-) Yes,
France will win quickly if you and Roberto attack me,
but I fear that you underestimate his very real
chances if you fail to cover Ruhr and NAO this Fall,
in an attempt to hedge your bets. The best we can
hope for in the east is to destroy FA Rum, and to
take Ser in trade for Bul, and hope he doesn't
support himself into Tri. With your retreat from
Ruhr, he can open Mar for a build, and if he moves
into Ruhr and/or NAO, all of those Units currently
tied down defending France will be able to go on
the attack, and roll over England, the Lowlands,
and western Germany, giving him the victory.
>I am going to write to Roberto privately, and I assume
>Nick will do the same. I hope that Roberto and I can
>agree on England's moves and that the two of you can
>agree on moves for Russia.
I'm basically waiting for Roberto to get back to me.
I'm willing to go with a variation of either set of
moves I offered earlier, and have no strong feeling
in favor of either, but it is important for Roberto
and I to be on the same page. I've ordered Nwy-Fin,
Den-Swe, and am waiting for instructions in the East.
Nick.
Message from Italy to Master, England, France, and Russia
Gentlemen,
The holiday season was busier for me than expected - more travel and
visiting than anticipated. Now, a sore throat is travelling thru the family
and I don't feel so hot. To boot, I got called into jury duty.
Although I hate to ask for a deadline extension, I think I need one. Doug,
can you extend the deadline to Friday (hopefully that will be enough time).
Italy
Message from France to England, Italy, and Russia
Ken:
>Now, a sore throat is travelling thru the family
>and I don't feel so hot. To boot, I got called into
>jury duty.
If the sore throat etc. gets you out of Jury duty, it
just might be worth it :-) Take care of yourself and
your public duty. The game can wait.
Roger
Message from Russia to Master, England, France, and Italy
>Message from France to Italy, England and Russia in 'titleist':
>If the sore throat etc. gets you out of Jury duty, it
>just might be worth it :-) Take care of yourself and
>your public duty. The game can wait.
But, I was planning on soloing by New Year's Eve!
(*Did I just say that out-loud?* ;^}
Seriously though, Ken, take the time you need.
It's bad enough that this Spring's moves were
the result of rushed, under-the-weather
thinking, without doing the same this Fall.
Happy Kwanzaa/Boxing Day, Everyone,
Eric.
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Questions for you? Do you feel that there is a correct way for a
diplomacy game to end? Should the people who played the best be in the
draw? How do you define "played the best"? Good and attentive
communication? Paying attention and not negotiating at the last
minute? Fighting and clawing one's way to the top, despite the odds and
who gets stomped on? Should a jerk win or draw just because he was
needed at the right times and people had to put up with him? These are
questions that I often wrestle with. I am wondering what you think
about them. I do not wish to imply that any of us fit any of the
descriptions, we can each categorize privately as we see fit.
Other times I wonder if a draw is a draw or if a player can be
eliminated he should be? I have eliminated powers not necessary for the
draw, just because I felt it was the way the game was supposed to be
played. I have settled for a carebear two-way, just because it felt
right. I have stabbed for a victory, because I felt it was the way the
game should be played. Perhaps there is no correct way, it depends on
the particular game and people.
What might the right way be in this game?
On a second topic, for a whim I thought about what FEI would do to
eliminate Russia. I know it could probably never occur, but it was fun
to think about it. What would you think of these moves:
Ank -> Arm
Bul -> Gre
Bls s Ank -> Arm
Rum -> Bud
Vie s Rum -> Bud
Ven -> Tri
Boh -> Gal
Try s Ven -> Tri
Mun s Ber
Nth -> Den
Kie s Nth -> Den
Bel -> Hol
Nwg -> Bar
Iri -> NAO
MAO -> Wes
England: + Hol +Kie - Nor = 8
France: -Ser +Tri +Rum/Bud? = 13/14
Italy: -Rum -Bud +Vie -Sev = 4
That leaves Russia at 8/9. We would need to get you into Scandinavia
and Russia. Italy would hole up in the Balkans, keeping me in line. In
the end that would leave you and I large and Italy small. We can
discuss the future then, but I suspect that neither of us would be
daring enough to go for the solo. A two-way draw also seems unlikely,
since it would be too carebearish.
I do not think that I trust Italy enough and I doubt you trust me
enough. But it was fun to ponder. If you have time tell me what
flaws there are, besides the obvious ones of lack of trust.
--King Roger XIII
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
I'm a little surprised that the deadline was not extended. It is possible
that Doug was out of town and did not get Roberto's appeal, or perhaps he
felt that the late period was sufficient to cover Roberto's needs. It is
not the same though, since one is not supposed to diplome during a late
period without having submitted moves. That makes Italy's position a
little difficult.
I've submitted moves so that my messages to you and Italy are
"legal." There is one item I wish to bring to your attention.
Roger, the never exhausted diplomat, has sent yet another proposal my
way. He suggests that perhaps there is a way that England, France, and
Italy can work to eliminate Russia. This "for a whim" idea was even
accompanied by a detailed set of moves for each of us -- France, Russia,
and Italy. You don't have to worry about me; I can still count. French
supply centers = 13; Russian supply centers = 8. Although I have slightly
greater affection for France than Russia (there, there, don't take it so
hard), I still have a logical mind. France is still the greater danger by
far, and I have no intention of even showing the slightest interest in his
plan.
It's Italy that I am worried about. Has Roger floated the same or similar
ideas to Roberto? Roberto is still capable of screwing up the defense
against France if he gets upset with us or becomes infatuated with some
crazy anti-Russian scheme cooked up by France with the purpose of setting
off more conflict between ERI.
I will send another message to Italy recommending solidarity. In
particular, in case Italy finds himself in no position to coordinate moves
with you because of late-period ethics, I will recommend to him your moves
that eliminate Rumania. Once Rumania is gone, the French threat will be
greatly reduced (and yours enhanced, alas). Afterwards it will be much
more difficult for Italy to assist France should he ever have the
inclination again.
To be precise, I am recommending your suggestion "Sil-Gal, Bud S Tri-Ser,
Ukr S Bla-Rum [that] would destroy
the French Army in Rum." Once that army is gone, I think you will be able
to be more aggressive toward Italy without much danger. Since
Silisia->Galicia might succeed, you may also wish to consider Prussia->Silesia.
One last item. I know that you have suggested to France on more than one
occasion that you and he finish the game in a 2-way. Lot's of
propositions get bandied about, eg the crazy EFI against R mentioned
above. That's fine by me. All's fair and all of that. Let good diplomacy
prevail.
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
I'm a little surprised that the deadline was not extended. It is possible
that Doug was out of town and did not get your appeal, or perhaps he felt
that the late period was sufficient to cover your needs. It is not the
same though, since one is not supposed to diplome during a late period
without having submitted moves. That makes this situation a little difficult.
I've submitted the moves that I most recently suggested so that my messages
to you and Russia are "legal." In case you feel that you must issue moves
without additional communication because we are in a late period, I have
taken the precaution of recommending to Russia the moves he suggested
earlier, "Sil-Gal, Bud S Tri-Ser, Ukr S Bla-Rum [which] would destroy
the French Army in Rum." For your other moves, I am not sure which is
best. Bohemia Supp Munich? Bohemia supp Vienna? Actually I believe France
when he says he will not attack Munich, and I really doubt that Vienna is
in any trouble. France has never promised to stay out of Ruhr though, so
even Bohemia->Munich->Ruhr has some merit. Tough choice.
France hints that he will attack me if you do not help him against
Russia. Please don't give in to that threat on my behalf. I can think of
nothing worse for me, for us actually, than for France once again to be at
the doorstep of victory. I know I am repeating myself here, but I think
you and I are best off if there is Russia/French conflict. France has been
in a drawish mood before, and I am hoping he will be that way again if he
loses his Rumanian army.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>I'm surprised that the deadline was not extended.
I imagine Doug was not online yesterday. I can't
see him refusing to extend the deadline, given
Roger's situation, the holidays, and Ken's Jury
Duty. Even if Doug was the sort to demand a "valid
excuse", we have several in this situation.
>Roger, the never exhausted diplomat, has sent yet
>another proposal my way. He suggests that perhaps
>there is a way that England, France, and Italy can
>work to eliminate Russia.
Not surprising, really, though a bit impractical
unless the plan calls for Roberto to retake Venice.
>You don't have to worry about me; I can still count. French supply centers
>= 13; Russian supply centers = 8.
As can I. I looked for the stab you were so worried
about, and the best I can see, assuming EVERYTHING
breaks my way, is for Russia to gain 5 Centers and
3 Units, while France remains even. So, that's 13-13
on Centers, with Roger having a two Unit advantage.
Even given my superior position in the East, that
still looks like a French Solo to me.
>Although I have slightly greater affection for France than Russia (there,
>there, don't take it so hard), I still have a logical mind.
That's ok, I like France more than I like England,
(or Russia, for that matter ;^), too. That's why
Roger's JDPR is as high as it is, he makes you like
him even as he's stabbing you. 8-)
>It's Italy that I am worried about. Roberto is still capable of screwing
>up the defense
>against France if he gets upset with us
Fortunately, it is difficult for France to make gains
in the Med without doing Italy much greater harm than
can be done to Russia. My concern about Roberto's
state of mind played a large role in my offering him
the decision on our Med moves.
>I will recommend to him your moves that eliminate Rumania. To be precise,
>I am recommending your suggestion "Sil-Gal, Bud S Tri-Ser, Ukr S Bla-Rum
>[that] would destroy the French Army in Rum."
Given your repeated endoresments of that move, it
was the set I chose as my default orders. I'll
confirm that to Roberto as well, with an offer to
change if he'd rather see something else.
>I know that you have suggested to France on more than one occasion that you
>and he finish the game in a 2-way.
France is the only Power that has not occupied a
Russian Home Center, so from a "storyline"
perspective, the FR 2-way makes sense. Also,
Roger and I battled our way to a stalemated IR
2-way in vgfp0013, (I was Italy), so there is
the 'working relationship/mutual respect' aspect
to it as well. I don't believe that we've
mentioned the 2-way since France failed to
support me into Ser and Sev in S1912M, though,
and the discussions of an FR 2-way were always
in a "in a perfect world", "what I'd like to see",
frame of reference, rather than a, "you know, if
you do X, and I do Y, we could end up in a 2-way".
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>France is the only Power that has not occupied a
>Russian Home Center, so from a "storyline"
>perspective, the FR 2-way makes sense.
Goodness knows we have had our differences, but this wasn't one of
them. My move to StP was encouraged by you in order to bounce an expected
German move to StP. Remember? When Germany didn't make that move I
unexpectedly owned StP. I moved out, and it was understood and encouraged
that you should move in yourself as soon as you could afford to. This was
long before the first friction between us.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Master to all
My mistake; I saw the requests for the extension but failed to grant
them. Moves are due tomorrow night.
I've got six guests coming over Saturday for Dip (including Jim
Burgess, Melissa Nicholson, and Tim Goodwin) and will proudly be
showing off my Titleist sweatshirt.
Doug
masseyd@btv.ibm.com as Master set the deadline
for game 'titleist' to Fri Dec 28 2001 23:30:00 -0500.
Message from Russia to England
Allen,
> >France is the only Power that has not occupied a
> >Russian Home Center, so from a "storyline"
> >perspective, the FR 2-way makes sense.
>Goodness knows we have had our differences, but this wasn't one of
>them. My move to StP was encouraged by you in order to bounce an expected
>German move to StP. Remember? When Germany didn't make that move I
>unexpectedly owned StP. I moved out, and it was >understood and encouraged
>that you should move in yourself as soon
>as you could afford to. This was long before the first friction between
>us.
Yes, I (Eric) understand and remember that, but I was a
Theatre Major before switching to a CS/Theatre Double,
and finally graduating with a CS Major/Theatre Minor,
and I played years of role-playing games before I
started playing Avalon Hill war games, so "storyline",
and "world history" within the game play a bigger
role for me than they do for you. My attempts to
develop the European Economic Union, and my newspaper
articles were an outgrowth of that, and the "Russian
people" are somewhat jingoistically defensive of
"their country", so it would be easier for Czar
Nicholas II to convince the Russian people to accept
a peace treaty that split Europe between France and
Russia, than any other draw would be. It was never
a realistic tactical goal for me as a Diplomacy
player, but as a "story point" it made sense.
Eric.
Message from England to France
King Roger,
Second things first:
>On a second topic, for a whim I thought about what FEI would do to
>eliminate Russia. I know it could probably never occur, but it was fun
>to think about it.
The effort meter puts you and Nick far ahead of Roberto. However on the
fondness scale, I rate you and Roberto ahead of Nick. Logic has the final
say. Eliminating Russia while preserving Italy is a tactical mess, and it
has the added risk of giving you increased chances of victory. Surely you
know how Russia would react if Italy and I turned on him. While I might
trust you not to take advantage of the situation, the risk just isn't
necessary.
>Questions for you? Do you feel that there is a correct way for a
>diplomacy game to end?
My reply is more or less the textbook reply. Generally individuals should
strive to solo, and should that prove infeasible try to be part of the
smallest possible draw. I have violated this myself in the past. In
black2, I (France) shared a 2-way with England even though I had an easy
solo if I wanted it. Lately, affected by this ratings business, I have
wondered how much this decision affect my standing in Doug's list.
There are practical considerations as well. In titleist I voted for a
4-way draw, even though a 3-way could be achieved fairly easily. I did
this partly out of exhaustion, partly out of respect for the other players,
all of whom are deserving, and partly because I felt a milestone had been
reached when IRE stopped a near French victory. Now, however, I predict
that titleist will have at most three survivors.
> Should the people who played the best be in the draw?
Sure. But the race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the
strong. Time and chance happeneth. There really is a lot of luck in any
one game. In one of the earlier games in this tournament, my partners and
I eliminated a vastly superior player. He did nothing wrong. His
diplomatic efforts to break our alliance were admirable. Had he been on my
side of the board I expect that he and I would have been partners. I felt
I lost vgfp0012 in similar fashion, and I won vgfp0005 on a 50-50 guess.
>What might the right way be in this game?
Depending on the results of this turn, I expect to offer a
proposal. Depending.
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to Russia
>Yes, I (Eric) understand and remember that, but I was a
>Theatre Major before switching to a CS/Theatre Double,
>and finally graduating with a CS Major/Theatre Minor,
I see this so often in my profession. We have many double majors --
mathematics plus theatre is indeed one example. I always suspect that the
other major is the student's true love and that mathematics is added with
employment in mind.
Do you ever act on the side, in local theatre for example, or does
Diplomacy provide a sufficient outlet?
Also, have you ever wondered which style is more effective in Diplomacy,
your theatrical style or Roger's straight-arrow style.
Also, did you see the movie L.A. Confidential with its straight-arrow
protagonist played by Guy Pearce? Great movie.
[Straight-Arrow was a boyhood hero of mine. That really dates me.]
Allen
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Thank you for the long reply. I was in a philosophical
mood last night. :-)
I do not mind Nick. He can be very exasperating at times
and a bit, shall we say extremely confident. But I do
prefer dealing with him to Roberto, whom I never really
clicked with. It may be more of a matter of style I
guess. Perhaps since Roberto had to interact with you to
survive, you were able to get to know him. I got only
utilitarian messages. But I am definitely not at the
point where I want him eliminated based on personalities.
In the end I felt that he earned a spot in the draw, even
though he betrayed me.
But it does not matter because I believe that Russia will
keep stirring the pot until he gets the situation he
wants. So we will be stuck with that.
>.....Depending.
Why does this sound almost like a threat ;-) Whom it
may depend on is Roberto this turn. We shall see.
--King Roger XIII
Message from France to England
Ivy:
We appear to have some time on our hands. Care to share
your *potential* proposal? If I knew what you were
looking for and why, I may be more likely to help it
happen. Of course it might be something that you do not
want to happen and only have a proposal if it does so you
do not want to help it happen. :-)
My worry is that it is that if I get totally squashed
this year, you will offer me a two-way draw? :-) That
means that I am about to get totally squashed!
What I cannot understand is that if Italy despises Russia
so much, why he continually helps him grow (perhaps not
directly, but as a result). Yes he continues to survive,
but he must know that in the end he will not and Russia
will be the big gainer in his efforts. Of course there
is the high probability that Roberto despise me as well,
so he is probably stuck between two distasteful choices.
:-)
Perhaps I should just try to hasten Italy's end, even if
that helps to further accelerate Russia's growth. At
least it moves things along. I still hope to set up a
situation where he ends up in Armenia and I am forces to
leave Ankara alone so he blocks Russia. But I cannot
negotiate that at the 11th hour.
--King Roger XIII
PS: You must be on break? Time to focus on the research
projects? Do you have many graduate students working for
you or do you focus primarily on teaching?
Message from Russia to England
Allen,
>We have many double majors -- mathematics plus theatre is indeed one
>example. I always suspect that the other major is the student's true love
>and that mathematics is added [for] employment
Well, the standard line in our Theatre Dept. was,
"If you can be happy doing ANYTHING else, do it
instead of theatre. If you HAVE to do theatre,
keep in mind that the unemployment rate for actors
and stagehands in New York is 85%, so if you have
any skill anywhere else, take courses in it as well,
so that you can put food on the table while pursuing
your dream." In my case, I had always loved math
and science, but fell in love with theatre in
high school. My dream was to work for Industrial
Light & Magic doing computer-generated special
effects. 8-)
>Do you ever act on the side, in local theatre for
>example, or does Diplomacy provide a sufficient outlet?
I was actually more of a tech person, though I did
do some acting and directing. Time, money and
family responsibilities have kept me from getting
involved in community theatre, but I still think
about it from time to time.
>have you ever wondered which style is more effective
>in Diplomacy, your theatrical style or Roger's
>straight-arrow style.
*chuckle* Well, our JDPRs would suggest Roger's,
but I agree with Jim-Bob Burgess that Diplomacy is
not about playing the pieces, it's about playing
the people. I can't help bringing a certain
role-playing sensibility to the table since it
fits my Romantic nature, and gives me the
opportunity to "shape the debate" and "define the
terms" of negotiations and even "victory" in ways
that hopefully advance my cause.
>did you see the movie L.A. Confidential with its straight-arrow protagonist
>played by Guy Pearce?
No, it did sound interesting, but I haven't had
a chance to rent it or catch it on cable, yet.
Eric.
Message from England to France
Roger XIII,
>>.....Depending.
>Why does this sound almost like a threat ;-) Whom it
>may depend on is Roberto this turn. We shall see.
If it sounded like a threat, it wasn't supposed to.
>We appear to have some time on our hands. Care to share
>your *potential* proposal?
I guess I spoke out of turn. Precisely because I had time on my hands, I
suppose. I am just trying to think of what could happen down the road and
how I might encourage it. Let's wait a little.
By the way, I am willing to take credit/blame for various happenings in
titleist, but I am not especially responsible for the upcoming moves.
Certainly I am trying to exert some influence, but it is hard to talk to
Russia when all he does is constantly defend his last moves, and it is hard
to talk to Italy when he is not available.
>My worry is that it is that if I get totally squashed this year, ...
Totally squashed? How is that possible? Everything you own is totally
secure with the exception of Rumania. Even if you lose Rumania you likely
have Trieste. Only close Italy/Russia cooperation could prevent that.
Which brings us to ...
>What I cannot understand is that if Italy despises Russia
>so much, why he continually helps him grow (perhaps not
>directly, but as a result).
Hitler and Stalin cooperated briefly, I suppose.
>PS: You must be on break? Time to focus on the research
>projects?
Between semesters. Classes don't start until mid-January. I am still
moderately busy, though, as chair of our hiring committee. We have abut
230 applicants for a tenure-track position and we just whittled the pile
down to 33. That was a lot of reading. We need an ordered list of about
10 in a few days.
>Do you have many graduate students working for you
No, our department has a dormant masters program. Bucknell is essentially
an undergraduate institution. We have about 3500 students. Our closest
competitors are Colgate and Lafayette.
>or do you focus primarily on teaching?
I do, with just an occasional publication every few years. My scholarship
is rather modest. I am teaching this year for the first time in three
years. Last year was a sabbatical year -- great for Diplomacy -- and the
year before that I had quite an adventure as the (interim) Dean of
Students. That was an experience of a lifetime.
Ivy
*********
Joanne and I tentatively expect to take Jason and Aaron plus their
Christmas presents (two very large monitors) back to New York on January 2.
We probably will drop Aaron off at Rochester before bringing Jason down to
his apartment at Cornell. Then we may see Joanne's folks in Elmira before
heading home. It will probably be a two-day excursion. I suppose January
2 is a work day for you. Do you work in the City? Do you have a lunch
hour? If we don't get a chance for a brief meeting this time, I am sure
that other occasions will present themselves. Aaron's PHD program has
about four more years to go if he sticks it out.
Allen
Message from France to England
Ivy:
> If it sounded like a threat, it wasn't supposed to.
I was suggesting that it could be interpreted as: If you behave, ... :-) Hence
my inquiry about what you were expecting me to do.
> I guess I spoke out of turn.
OK, we will wait.
> By the way, I am willing to take credit/blame for various happenings in
> titleist, but I am not especially responsible for the upcoming moves.
Of course. I realize that you do not have control of Nick (no one does) and
you cannot force Roberto to do anything, although you do have influence over
him. My point was that if I do not like what I hear from Roberto, I may have
to act accordingly.
> Totally squashed? How is that possible? Everything you own is totally
> secure with the exception of Rumania. Even if you lose Rumania you likely
> have Trieste. Only close Italy/Russia cooperation could prevent that.
Well, I could lose Rumania and Serbia and not gain Trieste. But the biggest
risk is that I lose significant position in the east (thereby quickly losing
Serbia and Greece, etc.) and risk you gaining position to break my stalemated
situation in the North. I know I will not lose too many net centers, but my
position is more critical. I am likely to be very conservative.
I do not have Nick's confidence that I can talk my way out of any situation :-)
>
>
> Hitler and Stalin cooperated briefly, I suppose.
>
Yes, but even when Roberto does not cooperate with Nick, his actions greatly
help him, which is the one thing he claims to not want to happen.
--King Roger XIII
> Between semesters. Classes don't start until mid-January. I am still
> moderately busy, though, as chair of our hiring committee. We have abut
> 230 applicants for a tenure-track position and we just whittled the pile
> down to 33. That was a lot of reading. We need an ordered list of about
> 10 in a few days.
How fun! How do you choose between them if their primary role is to teach and
you have little knowledge of that. You cannot choose based on your estimate of
their research strengths. Bright people do not necessarily make the best
teachers.
In many Universities and Programs, the ability to teach is not necessarily a
key component for choosing a tenure track candidate, at least it appears that
way to me. Many excellent researchers are also excellent teachers, but they
were chosen for their ability to attract research dollars. It must be nice to
be able to focus purely on the ability to teach and mold young minds.
Is my assessment of both your program and that of research universities
(primarily based on engineering field) completely inaccurate?
> That was an experience of a lifetime.
>
You certainly have an interesting life :-) I love Universities and always drag
my wife and not my family by them wherever we travel. My wife always tells me
that I should become a Professor; but I am not sure that I want to get into the
game of continually looking for research money. Was my assessment above
completely warped?
> I suppose January
> 2 is a work day for you. Do you work in the City? Do you have a lunch
> hour?
Rochester, Ithaca, and Elmira, quite a tour :-)
I do work on Jan 2, but have a flexible schedule. Providing that I currently
have no meetings scheduled, I could easily make some time. If you have always
told your wife that these Diplomacy folks are really normal people, you now run
the risk of making yourself out to be a liar :-) :-)
I hope that things work out, but realize that you do have a second son to
deliver and will have limited time. We can talk about it more later.
Roger
Message from Italy to England
>
> I have another set of moves that I now prefer.
>
> Nth supp Nwg->Norway
> Berlin holds
> Kiel->Holland
> Irish supp Channel
> Channel supp Belgium
> Belgium holds
>
Okay, I like these as well.
I still need to talk with Nick. For what it's worth, I'm not too keen on
his default orders. A lone fleet in Rumania surrounded by, get this, five
Russian armies is not my idea of funsville. I can think of better things to
do with my time.
To increase Russa-Franco conflict I think it would be best if Nick took
Rumania himself. What can be done to stop Ukr/Sev supp Bud->Rum? Not much
and I don't even have to lift a finger. Throw in Bla->Bul and Ank->Con and
Rumania is annihilated.
Let me know if your default orders change.
Roberto
Message from France to England
Allen:
My schedule for Jan 2 is as follows:
9:30-10:30 at School #41.
Some Kodak people volunteer to help children in the local
school learn to write better. I really do not want to
miss this as the children really enjoy having us visit.
Luckily they do not read my diplomacy messages as an
example of "how not to write". :-) I tend to rush
through them and not proof read enough.
Other than this commitment, I am available at any time
during the day.
Roger
Send me a note with possible plans, if you feel it will
work out. I work in Kodak park (at Lake & Ridge), but
can drive to anywhere.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
Evidently, Roberto is suggesting another way to destroy Rumania in which
you take it, possibly from Budapest. My advice is to humor Roberto and do
what ever it takes to get rid of that French army. Afterwards it will be
much easier to deal with Italy, because France's threat will be greatly
diminished. By "deal with" I include elmination, if that is your wish.
Am I correct in asserting that, after the loss of the Rumanian army, you
and I alone can control France, even if Italy begins to help him again?
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to Italy
Roberto,
>To increase Russa-Franco conflict I think it would be best if Nick took
>Rumania himself. What can be done to stop Ukr/Sev supp Bud->Rum? Not much
>and I don't even have to lift a finger. Throw in Bla->Bul and Ank->Con and
>Rumania is annihilated.
Fine by me.
There is only one circumstance in which I need to hear from you again.
Please let me know if France becomes unhappy with you today. I believe he
threatens to attack me if you do not cooperate with him. It may not be so
bad if he attacks me *after* tonight's move, but I don't want him to attack
me tonight.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
>Roberto is suggesting another way to destroy Rumania
>in which you take it, possibly from Budapest.
Hopefully he'll suggest it to me... ;-)
>My advice is to humor Roberto and do
>what ever it takes to get rid of that French army.
I'm willing to do whatever Roberto asks as long as
it isn't obviously an attempt to gut me, and it
weakens France.
>Am I correct in asserting that, after the loss of
>the Rumanian army, you and I alone can control France, even if Italy begins
>to help him again?
If you order Nwg-NAO, Iri S ECh, Nth S Bel, and
some Army to Ruhr, (Mun-Ruh, Ber S Boh-Mun,
Kie-Ruh perhaps?), France remains stalemated in
the west. If France takes Ruhr, Belgium or NAO,
we have a problem, though.
Depending on how things play out in the Balkans,
France will end 1913 with 13 or 14 Centers, and
12 or 13 Units (he can afford to move Mar to Gas
or Pie, to open it for a build). Given the
whole-hearted support of three to five Italian
Units, France could still solo in 1914, so I
would recommend not even thinking about stabbing
Italy before 1915.
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>If France takes Ruhr, Belgium or NAO,
>we have a problem, though.
I am quite confident that Roger will not even attempt any of those. He's
thinking down the road and is trying to line up friends for the future.
>I would recommend not even thinking about stabbing Italy before 1915.
That's interesting. Assuming that Rumania disappears, it is hard for me to
imagine anything you could do next year that is anti-France. With Rumania
gone, your only neighbors will be me and Italy.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >I would recommend not even thinking about stabbing Italy before 1915.
>Assuming that Rumania disappears, it is hard for me to
>imagine anything you could do next year that is anti-France. With Rumania
>gone, your only neighbors will be me and Italy.
Paranoia is fine, but take a look at the map.
Bulgaria will become French this year, leaving Smy,
Con, Bul, and Gre, French in 1914. Sev-Arm, Ukr-Sev,
Bla & Ser S Rum-Bul in S1914M, followed by Arm-Smy,
Sev-Arm, Rum S Ser-Gre, Bla S Ank-Con in the Fall,
and we take the four remaining eastern French Centers.
Is that anti-French enough for you???
Nick.
Message from England to France
Roger,
> We have abut
> > 230 applicants for a tenure-track position and we just whittled the pile
> > down to 33. That was a lot of reading. We need an ordered list of about
> > 10 in a few days.
>
>How fun! How do you choose between them if their primary role is to teach and
>you have little knowledge of that. You cannot choose based on your
>estimate of
>their research strengths. Bright people do not necessarily make the best
>teachers.
Clarification is needed. We are neither a research university nor a
teaching college. The best liberal arts colleges fill a strange niche in
between. At Bucknell, faculty are evaluated in the areas of teaching,
scholarship, and service with weights of 5, 4, and 2 respectively. So,
research strength is quite important. However, you are right in that
research aptitude is easier to judge than teaching interest and
ability. Letters of recommendation that remark on a candidate's teaching
ability are ridiculously inflated. One initially relies on these letters
plus the candidates own written statement on teaching. You can tell so
much more during interviews though. By observing their blackboard
presentations and just spending time with them one gets a feel for the
candidate. We still make hiring mistakes, unfortunately.
>If you have always told your wife that these Diplomacy folks are really
>normal people, you now run
>the risk of making yourself out to be a liar
I tell her that the most successful diplomats are really nice people. The
lying, stabbing aspects of Diplomacy that make it such a fascinating game
to describe are not the key to success in the game. I suspect you will agree.
*************************************
When I know more about the details of our trip to Rochester and whether we
have a window of time, I will let you know.
Here's another opportunity, although one that I doubt could work for
you. We are having a face-to-face Diplomacy game at our house on Saturday,
January 12. And Karlis Povisils is coming from New Jersey!!! He has never
played FTF. We have room for one more!
Cordially,
Allen
p.s. Did I mention titleist anywhere in the above? Hmmm, guess not.
Message from England to Russia
>Paranoia is fine, but take a look at the map.
>Bulgaria will become French this year, leaving Smy,
>Con, Bul, and Gre, French in 1914. Sev-Arm, Ukr-Sev,
>Bla & Ser S Rum-Bul in S1914M, followed by Arm-Smy,
>Sev-Arm, Rum S Ser-Gre, Bla S Ank-Con in the Fall,
>and we take the four remaining eastern French Centers.
>Is that anti-French enough for you???
Yeah, that's anti-French enough for me. It also raises many questions. We
could have some interesting discussions after tonight's move. Let's first
see if everyone does what they are expected to do.
Allen
Message from France to England
Ivy:
Just for the official record. I will not attack Belgium
or any of the sea zones around your Island.
--King Roger XIII
Message from Russia to England
Allen,
> >If France takes Ruhr, Belgium or NAO,
> >we have a problem, though.
>I am quite confident that Roger will not even attempt any of those. He's
>thinking down the
>road and is trying to line up friends for the future.
*Eric walks down the hall at work, uses the
facilities, walks back up the hall, stops
to get a Diet Pepsi, and returns to his PC,
hoping to remain calm, and not insult you
as he replies to this.*
Roger Yonkoski (JDPR 1818, more than 300 points
higher than mine, and more than 100 points
higher than yours), is "trying to line up friends
for the future"??? What future? The one where
I stab you and Ken and make a Solo run? Please,
Allen, look at the map. I have 8 Centers, Roger
has 13. Even if you and Ken move as I recommend,
and I stab mercilessly, the best I can do is 13
Centers, and 11 Units. I know this because I
spent several days looking for the stab you were
so worried about. If I stab you and Ken, one, or
both of you will disband so as to favor Roger,
Ken is likely to actively support his solo bid.
The result? A French Solo. Why would I stab
you, if it means I lose the game?
Roger, however, (whose JDPR is based largely on
his ability to establish friendly relationships
with everyone on the board), plays up you fear of
a Russian Solo bid, and assures you that he
needs you strong to stop me, so he won't attack
NAO, Bel or Ruhr. Now, why would he do that?
Perhaps he does fear my solo potential, but
what's the most effective way to stop someone
else's Solo? To ally with the others on the
board to stalemate the coming solo attempt, or
to solo yourself before the other guy can?
Roger assures you that you can defend against
my "stab", and then takes Ruhr and/or Belgium,
and NAO, and solos easily. Think about it from
a NoPress standpoint. If I stab, France solos;
if you don't defend and France attacks, France
solos. If you defend, and France doesn't stab,
you stalemate France again, unless I stab, in
which case, France solos. I certainly don't
trust Roger to not take the Solo if it's
possible, and you shouldn't either, no matter
how honeyed his reassurances are.
Eric.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>*Eric walks down the hall at work, uses the
>facilities, walks back up the hall, stops
>to get a Diet Pepsi, and returns to his PC,
>hoping to remain calm, and not insult you
>as he replies to this.*
[7328 words omitted]
>Eric.
Wow, what did I say that brought this on? I was just making polite
conversation.
Moving on ... have you heard from Italy yet?
Allen/Ivy
Message from England to England
King Roger,
>Just for the official record. I will not attack Belgium
>or any of the sea zones around your Island.
Official?! It even had the royal seal. This is a little scary. I don't
think I ever received an official message from any of France's diplomats
before. What does it mean?
Previous, less official, messages also mentioned Munich. Should Italy now
be worried? Has he indicated that he might not cooperate with you? In all
seriousness, I have received exactly one message from Roberto in which gave
no indication of his moves. I know that both you and Nick are vying for
Roberto's help. For once I am a bit on the fence and have told him so. It
is Nick's upcoming moves that most concern me (answering an earlier
question of yours, I suppose).
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England
Allen,
> >*Eric walks down the hall at work, uses the
> >facilities, walks back up the hall, stops
> >to get a Diet Pepsi, and returns to his PC,
> >hoping to remain calm, and not insult you
> >as he replies to this.*
[7329 words omitted]
>Wow, what did I say that brought this on? I was just making polite
>conversation.
No, you said that you were confident that Roger
would not attack the holes in your defensive line,
implying that you saw no need to defend them. I
felt I should make obvious what would happen if
you did not. Keep in mind that Roger earlier
convinced me that he just wanted to help me
eliminate Italy, and if you hadn't brought
Ken around to stopping Roger, Roger would have
soloed, then. I urge you to not make the
mistake of trusting Roger when he can see the
Solo.
>Moving on ... have you heard from Italy yet?
Yes, he does want Bud-Rum. I haven't had a chance
to look at the details, yet.
Eric.
Message from Russia to England and Italy
>Message from Italy to Russia in 'titleist':
>The only sure fire way to annihilate the Rumanian army is as follows:
>bud-rum
>sev s bud-rum
>ukr s bud-rum (or supp sev)
>sil-gal
>tri-ser
>bla-bul/ec
>ank-con
Well, Sev S Ukr-Rum, Bud S Tri-Ser also destroys Rum,
and prevents Rum-Ser from defending Serbia.
>Anything else, and all France has to do is move Bul/sc to give him a
>retreat.
True, but why would he move out of Bulgaria, when
that risks losing Con to Bla S Ank-Con?
>I'm really not interested in moving my Black Sea fleet to
>Rumania this turn.
That's fine. If we take Rum and Ser this year,
Ank and Bla will be able to retake Con next year.
>Sorry for the rushed note but I got to go.
Please respond to this if you get the chance.
Thanks,
Nick.
Message from England to Russia
Nick,
>Well, Sev S Ukr-Rum, Bud S Tri-Ser also destroys Rum,
>and prevents Rum-Ser from defending Serbia.
Is it my imagination, or do these moves leave only Ankara and Munich in
Italian hands? He loses Budapest, Sevastopol, and Rumania to you, while
losing Bulgaria to France. Right?
Even Budapest->Rumania saves only one additional center for Italy. What is
Italy up to? Is he on the up and up with you?
Ivy/Allen
Message from France to England
Ivy:
I have chosen to sit tight all around and neither try to betray Italy
(or you, although I already told you that) nor try to work with Italy.
I have told this to Italy as well, so he may be upset with me. I
basically do not want to be betrayed again.
--King Roger XIII
Message from England to England
King Roger,
>I have chosen to sit tight all around and neither try to betray Italy
>(or you, although I already told you that) nor try to work with Italy.
>I have told this to Italy as well, so he may be upset with me. I
>basically do not want to be betrayed again.
Thank you.
I suspect that Russia may be taking several units from Italy this fall. I
honestly do not know what he will do against me. Your sitting tight gives
me some options. Certainly, I will not take any agressive action against
England. I couldn't even if I wanted to.
Ivy/Allen
Message from England to France
King Roger,
>I have chosen to sit tight all around and neither try to betray Italy
>(or you, although I already told you that) nor try to work with Italy.
>I have told this to Italy as well, so he may be upset with me. I
>basically do not want to be betrayed again.
Thank you.
I suspect that Russia may be taking several units from Italy this fall. He
probably will get Rumania also. I honestly do not know what he will do
against me. Your sitting tight gives me some options. Certainly, I will
not take any agressive action against England. I couldn't even if I wanted
to.
Ivy/Allen
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
> >Well, Sev S Ukr-Rum, Bud S Tri-Ser also destroys Rum,
> >and prevents Rum-Ser from defending Serbia.
>do these moves leave only Ankara and Munich in
>Italian hands? He loses Budapest, Sevastopol, and Rumania to you, while
>losing Bulgaria to France. Right?
Yes, but he gains Vie from me, and potentially Tri as
well, if he orders Vie-Tri, Boh-Vie, and doesn't get
bounced by Ven/Tyl.
>What is Italy up to? Is he on the up and up with you?
*shrug* You'd be a better judge of that than I am.
Realistically, if he gains Tri and Vie, losing a Center
is probably a good deal for him. Tri, Vie, and Mun take
Tyl, and threaten Venice in 1914. Plus, I'm not sure
that he has any way to avoid disbanding a Unit or two,
at this point, so he may have accepted that as well.
Nick.
Message from Russia to England
Ivy,
Are you going to cover Ruhr and NAO, and defend Belgium? Given
Sil-Gal, Pru-Sil, Bel S Kie-Ruh, Ber-Kie has potential, I think.
Nick.
England: Army Belgium → Ruhr
England: Army Berlin → Kiel (*bounce*)
England: Fleet English Channel HOLD
England: Fleet Irish Sea SUPPORT Fleet English Channel
England: Army Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Fleet Norwegian Sea → Norway
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea → Norway
France: Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Fleet Bulgaria (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Constantinople
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Italian Army Munich (*void*)
France: Fleet Constantinople SUPPORT Fleet Bulgaria (south coast)
France: Army Marseilles → Piedmont
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Western Mediterranean
France: Army Paris → Brest (*bounce*)
France: Army Picardy → Brest (*bounce*)
France: Army Rumania → Serbia (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Spain (south coast) SUPPORT Fleet Brest → Mid-Atlantic Ocean
France: Army Tyrolia → Trieste
France: Army Venice SUPPORT Army Tyrolia → Trieste
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean → Tunis
Italy: Fleet Ankara → Armenia
Italy: Fleet Black Sea → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Bohemia → Vienna (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Munich → Kiel (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Vienna → Budapest (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Budapest SUPPORT Army Trieste → Serbia (*cut*)
Russia: Fleet Denmark → Sweden
Russia: Army Norway → Finland
Russia: Army Prussia → Silesia
Russia: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Ukraine → Rumania (*cut*)
Russia: Army Silesia → Galicia
Russia: Army Trieste → Serbia (*bounce, dislodged*)
Russia: Army Ukraine → Rumania (*bounce*)
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