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Message from France to England
Should have listened to my gut. Bastard just hung us out to dry -- he
gets two builds, can let Russia into Sweden and play it off like he had
no idea what was going on. Meanwhile, we've got to deal with an angry
Russia and Italy. Even if I surround Mujnich, he can build A Mun and A
Ber, and I've got no hope of taking it. Jesus. Maybe you can at least
outguess him and bounch him in Holland or Bel. Ugh.
Interesting moves on the Turk's part, though. Did you have anything to do
with that?
Erik
Message from Germany to England and France
Sorry guys I got really paranoid about an ER alliance.
I saw Russia bouncing me in SIL or PRU and England convoying to BEL or HOL.
By next year I would have the pair of them bearing down on me. Following
that I expected them to bring France on board.
The damage is minimal as England can still move on BAR and convoy YOR to
NWY. I can still bounce Russia in SWE. In the spring we can take Sweden and in
the fall we can take STP.
Forgive me my trespasses, it was purely down to the jitters of a spring
move. I ran the most risk of a stab and paranoia got the upperhand.
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
Good to see that we don't have to worry about an RT ;-)
What's your take on what's happening with Germany and
France? One thing is for sure, you have got to take
Belgium for yourself as 3 gains for Germany is a bit much.
Philippe
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
YOu can come attack France any time you want.
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> Good to see that we don't have to worry about an RT ;-)
True, true. Will you be going after Russia?
> What's your take on what's happening with Germany and
> France? One thing is for sure, you have got to take
> Belgium for yourself as 3 gains for Germany is a bit much.
Yeah, mostly good news. Weird business between G and F. I'll see what I
can do about HOL/BEL. I'll figure something out.
Ben
Message from England to England
Erik -
> Should have listened to my gut.
Both of us should have listened to your gut. He made us monkeys, for sure.
> Bastard just hung us out to dry -- he
> gets two builds, can let Russia into
> Sweden and play it off like he had
> no idea what was going on. Meanwhile,
> we've got to deal with an angry
> Russia and Italy.
Not so much an angry Russia. But an angry Italy, absolutely.
> Even if I surround Mujnich, he can build A Mun and A
> Ber, and I've got no hope of taking it. Jesus. Maybe you can at least
> outguess him and bounch him in Holland or Bel. Ugh.
There won't be any guessing involve - he'll be trying for both.
> Interesting moves on the Turk's part, though. Did you have
> anything to do with that?
Well I thought it was coming, but I didn't cause it. Good news.
We have to decide how stupid we should pretend to be (after the spring are
we pretending?) when we deal with Tony. Let me know if you've written him
already.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> True, true. Will you be going after Russia?
Probably, but I'm a bit worried of Germany.
> Yeah, mostly good news. Weird business between G and F. I'll see what I
> can do about HOL/BEL. I'll figure something out.
It's probably just a play on Germany's part to go after France;
but I would watch out in your place. If he's convinced France
will do anything he ask, he might to go for an FG alliance and
weasel himself into a position to take you out (Den-Ska,
Kie-Den & Ruh-Hol for example would put him in position to
work with a russian fleet in Sweden without looking too anti-
english). To prevent that, could you pressure Germany into
denying Sweden even though Russia hasn't threathened any
one?
Philippe
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> YOu can come attack France any time you want.
:)
Tony lied his butt off and Erik would much rather wring his neck than yours.
I would also rather see Erik attack Tony than you, and I also know Tony lied
his butt off, just like you said he would.
Could I attack France? Yes. Is that wise, considering Tony? I don't know.
But the F->G animosity is absolutely tremendous and I wonder if, for
instance, you could help get PIE into TYR. I don't know right now if that's
a good idea, but it gives you an idea of the kind of thing that might work.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
What of the Lowlands? You're not suggesting the Western Triple begins with
three builds for Germany and one each for France and England, are you?
Ben
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> It's probably just a play on Germany's part to go after France;
> but I would watch out in your place.
No kidding.
> If he's convinced France
> will do anything he ask, he might to go for an FG alliance and
> weasel himself into a position to take you out (Den-Ska,
> Kie-Den & Ruh-Hol for example would put him in position to
> work with a russian fleet in Sweden without looking too anti-
> english). To prevent that, could you pressure Germany into
> denying Sweden even though Russia hasn't threathened any
> one?
Germany's already told me he will deny Sweden to Russia. I have no
particular reason to believe he will do this, though. On the contrary, I
think you are probably right to warn me of a G/R.
Thanks for the advice. You and Turkey have things set up beautifully,
unless I miss my guess. Could we get no builds for Russia this year? I
can't believe he ordered Moscow to hold. I was closer than I thought with
my broadcast of MOS - WAR, WAR - MOS.
Ben
Message from England to England
Well, now I see the answer to some of my own questions, not the least of
which is, why would a Germany ever propose this wacky opening. Within a day
or two of the deadline, I thought to myself, why not in S'01 just order
something like French PAR - PIC, BRE - MAO, MAR - BUR, and go straight for
the jugular in the Spring. In retrospect clearly it's what we should have
done.
My thinking was, let the German units get as far out of position as
possible, into LVN and PRU, while we move in for a quick kill. After all
why would Tony accept this plan & not consult with me, if he wanted just to
sneak up on France? Of course Tony was a step ahead and has thrust France
into a diplomatic nightmare and made it impossible for EF to get a jump on
him.
Ben
Message from England to all
> :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
and find you?
Ben
Message from Italy to all
>
> > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
> Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
> and find you?
I am going to be at the North American Dip Championships til Monday.
starting tommorow morning
Message from England to Italy
D'oh! Of course. Good luck. Is anything happening on Monday or is it over
by then?
> > > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
> > Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to
> send Tony to come
> > and find you?
>
> I am going to be at the North American Dip Championships til Monday.
>
> starting tommorow morning
Message to all
> > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
>Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
>and find you?
I confess. It's me.
;-)
Message from Austria to England
> > It's probably just a play on Germany's part to go after France;
> > but I would watch out in your place.
> No kidding.
Sorry for stating the obvious ;-)
> Germany's already told me he will deny Sweden to Russia. I have no
> particular reason to believe he will do this, though. On the contrary, I
> think you are probably right to warn me of a G/R.
As far as I know, the plan was for Germany to deny
Sweden if Russia attacked me or Germany right away.
I don't think there ever was a plan to deny Sweden
whatever happened, but I might be wrong.
Since France's situation permit an EF as well as an EG
alliance, have you thought of forcing Germany's hand by
making Den-Swe a necessary step for an EG alliance
instead of simply asking politely? This might appear too
strong a step for you, I don't know, but it's not really
costing Germany anything and you would know how
to orient your diplomacy for next year.
Anyway, I won't pursue the subject more then that
because your relationship with Germany is for you to
define and my opinion on that subject might not be
welcome, even thought it's pretty evident why I might
want to see a strong England and weak Russia in the
coming years :-)
> Thanks for the advice. You and Turkey have things set up beautifully,
> unless I miss my guess. Could we get no builds for Russia this year? I
> can't believe he ordered Moscow to hold. I was closer than I thought with
> my broadcast of MOS - WAR, WAR - MOS.
Everything is in the card! It just depend on how they
are dealt.
Philippe
Message from Germany to England
No Ben, I am happy just to take HOL. It was a s1901 move. If you and France
really got together then I would now be in SIL/PRU. He would be in BUR and
in PIC. You would be convoying to HOL and he would pick up BEL and bounce me
in MUN. I would be left with egg on my face in PRU/SIL and just the one
build surrouned by three enemies.
What would you do if you were F or G in this situation as the board stands?
Would you join forces bounce england in BEL and HOL and go after him?
Or would you if you were germany feeling guilty because of your paranoid
spring moves just take HOL and try and get the EFG back on track?
Or would you as England try and talk Germany into giving you BEL instead of
bouncing so you can both go after France?
I am sure the three of us will continue to talk whilst bilateral talks take
place between all three. Remeber what I said, try and take control of your
own destiny. Dont rely on me or France. Hammer out the best deal you can and
go for it. If I offer you BEL take it and stab me next spring. Dont close
all doors up front. Good luck, always ready to talk.
Message from Germany to all
> Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500Will one of you confess to
being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come and find you?>
Well the 18th is my birthday and I was planning on spending all cash
donations on a shopping spree at Harrods in f1903m (in London for the
americans under you ;-). But if the offer is right then I will be willing to
hunt the AWOLér down
Message from Germany to all
>>I am going to be at the North American Dip Championships til Monday.>>
Try and set a board up as we stand at this moment and ask 7 top players to
make fall move suggestions (backed up by the diploming that needs to be done
first).
p.s. Dont forget to share anything they say
Message from Italy to England
What did Germany promise you
Message to all
> > > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
> >Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to
come
> >and find you?
>
> I confess. It's me.
>
> ;-)
>
>
Tony, I am one of those expecting you to broadcast your fall moves!
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> What did Germany promise you
I thought you might have figured it out by now.
A Western Triple. Erik & Tony had separately suggested trying one. If
Germany was now in SIL and PRU, and France and I were as we are now,
wouldn't there be doors open for Erik & me.
But it wasn't meant to be, at least in F'01. It was an easy call for me -
I'm not extended at all - but it sure messed up Erik's position. Anyway the
key is, I would like to keep the door open between you & France, & we are
now at the stage where I don't want you to make his head explode. Which
isn't to say that I *can't* move on him, I just want to put these cards on
the table & we can figure out the next step.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Could I attack France? Yes. Is that wise, considering Tony? I don't know.
> But the F->G animosity is absolutely tremendous and I wonder if, for
> instance, you could help get PIE into TYR. I don't know right now if that's
> a good idea, but it gives you an idea of the kind of thing that might work.
Work with France.....kill Tony.
Message from Germany to all
Hey Jason, I think that it was only you and me who went it alone maybe we
should team up for a 2 way?!... or did you move in accordance with...... ;-)
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Work with France.....kill Tony.
As I said - that's my first choice.
But my friggin plan is in the friggin toilet & looking back on it it was not
a good one.
Status right now is I'm trying to negotiate my way into BEL. It'll be a
long haul, with Erik's units where they are. Wish me luck & any suggestions
are welcome. I guess the long haul is good news for you, anyway. ;-)
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Erik -
> No Ben, I am happy just to take HOL. It was a s1901 move. If
> you and France
> really got together then I would now be in SIL/PRU. He would
> be in BUR and
> in PIC. You would be convoying to HOL and he would pick up
> BEL and bounce me
> in MUN. I would be left with egg on my face in PRU/SIL and
> just the one
> build surrouned by three enemies.
Wouldn't that have been clever. If I only had a brain. . .
> What would you do if you were F or G in this situation as the
> board stands?
I asked you a couple of times if you were serious about the triple. I'm not
sure I would have had the guts to try it, but you did & nearly got out of
the gate cleanly. . .
> Would you join forces bounce england in BEL and HOL and go after him?
> Or would you if you were germany feeling guilty because of
> your paranoid spring moves just take HOL and try and get the EFG back
> on track?
Guilt? I know I'd want to patch things up with at least one of EF, that's
for sure.
> Or would you as England try and talk Germany into giving you
> BEL instead of
> bouncing so you can both go after France?
Did my press to you - just you - not leave these doors open? Did my group
press not leave these doors open? I am asking for BEL. I am open to
suggestions.
> I am sure the three of us will continue to talk whilst
> bilateral talks take
> place between all three. Remeber what I said, try and take
> control of your
> own destiny. Dont rely on me or France. Hammer out the best
> deal you can and
> go for it. If I offer you BEL take it and stab me next
> spring. Dont close
> all doors up front. Good luck, always ready to talk.
Certainly always ready to talk. You put France in a tough spot. You did
not put *me* in a tough spot. And if you want to give me BEL and then want
me to stab you next turn, I can do that. ;-)
Is it reasonable to think we might try for an EFG now? Considering your
push west? It's a small matter to me - I can try for NWY and BEL either way
- but for you & France, is it doable?
Ben
Message from Russia to all
Yo' -- dere's a lot mora dem grey broadcasts going around agin.
Ceppin' fer Jason "da Kid", we'z all done our five jobs fer Don
Masseyoni an' is made men. We deserve more respect dan dis.
An' tell Ben "da' Shark" dat he don' need ta' send "Snake Eyes" Tony
out on no jobs. I'z da won wat's gonna be dealin' wit family bizness
fer a bit.
--- Tzarface
END ORIGINAL MESSAGE
=================================================
The following translation is brought to you by The Counsel for Clear
Communication through Silly Broadcast Personas (C3-SBP):
"Ben, I'm the one who requested the absence. --- Eric"
Message from Russia to England
What an ugly looking opening for me! Turkey coming after me, Austria
an unknown, France hitting Italy (which would typically be the only
southern country with a vested interest in seeing me alive), and then
I have an absence upcoming. Oh well. I hope given my completely
inoffensive presence in the north that you will follow through with
the promise of fleet Nwy. I can only take so much disappointment! :)
So it looks like in the north I am going to be very reactionary. With
luck I'll get Swe, because unless I'm misreading things Rum is
unlikely to fall in my hands.
It looks like things with you and France are going okay, in the sense
that Eng was uncontested and he's focused south, so I think things
are looking good from your point of view.
What are your thoughts at this point?
--- Tzarface
Message from England to Russia
Mr. Face -
> What an ugly looking opening for me! Turkey coming after me, Austria
> an unknown, France hitting Italy (which would typically be the only
> southern country with a vested interest in seeing me alive), and then
> I have an absence upcoming. Oh well. I hope given my completely
> inoffensive presence in the north that you will follow through with
> the promise of fleet Nwy. I can only take so much disappointment! :)
Well I can assure you of F NWY. So I hope that is some good news.
> So it looks like in the north I am going to be very reactionary. With
> luck I'll get Swe, because unless I'm misreading things Rum is
> unlikely to fall in my hands.
I will support you into SWE in the spring after you are bounced out in the
fall, is my guess. Anyway *if* you are bounced this season I will take care
of it in the next.
> It looks like things with you and France are going okay, in the sense
> that Eng was uncontested and he's focused south, so I think things
> are looking good from your point of view.
Well I guess things are going ok for me. I was surprised at the G/F moves &
things may end up being pretty wild in the west. We'll see.
> What are your thoughts at this point?
I think you are probably right about an A/T. I wonder what the destiny of
Greece is.
Good luck in these troubled times.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
>>Wouldn't that have been clever. If I only had a brain. . .>>
Dont underestimate yourself, just diplome, diplome, diplome.
I am sure FE would have come up with it. You were just a little to "held
back, awaiting what will happen".
>>I asked you a couple of times if you were serious about the triple. I'm
not
sure I would have had the guts to try it, but you did & nearly got out of
the gate cleanly. . .>>
It was to gutsy for Germany even for me.
But on the otherhand I didnt get or go for "clean out of the gate" I was
just reducing risks.
knowingly break the tripple knowing your moves as I did ment that I knew you
could bounce me in BEL or HOL.
So there was never any chance of a clean get away.
Although I can easily pick up HOL or I can opt to try for both which will
pick me up one of them and bounce you in the other.
My motive was purely based on experience. The tripple suggested leaves
Germany very open to an EF attack in the spring.
If I were playing France or England I would have pushed for the PIC, BUR and
convoy to HOL and the taking of BEL option. Basically STAB germany straight
away.
The added bounus would have been Turkey attacking Russia as he did. This
ensured that Germany had three enemies and thus doomen.
>>You put France in a tough spot. You did
not put *me* in a tough spot. And if you want to give me BEL and then want
me to stab you next turn, I can do that. ;-)>>
Thats the spirit ;-), besides you were never in a tough spot. Your moves
were completely natural.
I didnt actually put France in a tough spot but in a challenging spot, which
in regard to my non compliance during a spring move ensured I built in an
escape for him.
I knew of the Austrian/Italian bounce in VEN. I even told France about it. A
very unusual situation. By following through on the move to PIE whilst
Austria remains in TRI clearly points to a FA alliance in Italys eyes. Maybe
France wanted this, maybe he has an alliance with Austria.
He knew they would bounce (if he believed me, which he did else he wouldnt
have gone for the EFG tripple).
It also opens up the door for an AFG. Just making it this far with this
result is worthwhile. But there are greater challenges ahead. Which brings
us to EG.
Ofcourse all could have blown up in my face. FE to PIC/BUR
AI to TYR/BOH. I just got lucky. Which to my experience you need in s1901. I
did make one mistake. If I had known that Turkey would attack Russia then I
would have opted for kie - hol, ber - kie, mun - ruh. This would have
ensured BEL/HOL. You would then have had the choice to bounce DEN or not. I
would have retreated kie rather than bounce to allow me to build two fleets.
But thas is now not the case, we have to look at the board and see what fits
us both best.
As regards to EG the following. You have a choice. Convince France to work
with you against me (I will ofcourse be doing the same). Alternatively
convoy to NWY and move on BAR and I bounce sweden.
Russia doesnt get a build up north. You net NWY and build a fleet in LON or
EDI. You net STP next year.
Sweden can be swapped for Belgium next year to even out our forces.
Even if I build two fleets I still couldnt move on England without Frances
help. This still leaves you plenty of time to see wether the EG is working.
The second choice is; bounce me in Belgium. I would then pick up Holland and
build a fleet in KIE. I would allow Russia into Sweden and he would build a
fleet north. He needs an ally now and germany would look stronger than
england. I help him into nwy by the end of the year.
The third choice is move NTH - ENG and YOR - WAL. Pick up NWY. I bounce
sweden.
You build a fleet in london. I build armies. I support NWY to Sweden in the
spring.
I also support your convoy from wales to PIC using belgium and we take it
from there.
The fourth choice is take Belgium. Now here I run a risk. If you convoy then
an army is dangerous for me. A fleet would be safer.
The good news is you couldnt hold Belgium in the spring (if you convoyed). I
cut support from NTH and attack belgium with two units (hol and ruh). You
would have to guess correctly. Dont forget in this scenario I also have a
fleet in KIE.
The fith choice is we get the EFG going again. I get 3 builds, france gets
two and you get one. Next year you get SWE and STP. I attack PRU/SIL/BAL to
help you. Then we continue on as planned.
I am sure there is a sith, seventh and eigth choice. Which do you prefer. As
I said there is always time to talk.
Do you have any concrete suggestions as to how to continue.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
A lot for me to bite off here. I'll write more later. But for now:
By "clean out of the gate," I meant, you nearly successfully got the triple
started with yourself as Germany. I did not mean, you nearly went west.
After all, /that/ you certainly did perfectly well. :)
More later.
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
> The damage is minimal as England can still move on BAR and
> convoy YOR to NWY. I can still bounce Russia in SWE. In the spring we can
> take Sweden and in the fall we can take STP.
> Forgive me my trespasses, it was purely down to the jitters
> of a spring move. I ran the most risk of a stab and paranoia
> got the upperhand.
Well there's no question you were the most vulnerable between the three of
us. But there is a change, in that the speed of our selected opening is
limited by the fact that you went west instead of east.
Still I have a modification to propose & I hope we will agree it is
reasonable. One of us - I forget whom - was circulating that I was to take
Belgium with a fleet. Why don't we just go ahead with that plan & I still
convoy the army to Norway. This way we can hopefully regain the element of
surprise when the new German armies go east rather than west. Tony, you
could support yourself into Holland *** Kiel supporting RUH - HOL so as to
avoid future jitters *** while Erik does what he can with Italy.
It may slow us down for the capture of STP but we will have the advantage of
having disguised our intentions a bit longer.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
What of this:
Proceed with the EFG but slow it down. Move the fall as follows: France
takes Iberia. You take HOL and DEN. I convoy to BEL & take NWY with a
fleet. Looks natural. The spring is set up as follows, for me: NWY - BAR,
BEL - NTH - NWY. This leaves NTH covered this season, which is nice because
then I don't have the risk of DEN - NTH.
Low risk for you because as you say BEL is not really secure. Low risk for
me because NTH is not compromised. And allows France to explode into the
Med., with surprise in our favor in '02. And even growth in '01. I could
swap out BEL for SWE in '02. You build armies.
Obviously off the top of my head - curious for your thoughts.
Also my fg press for which I just received the receipt was delayed a couple
of hours by the Judge. Hope this doesn't suffer the same fate.
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
Curious - my fg press was delayed a few hours by the judge.
> Still I have a modification to propose & I hope we will agree it is
> reasonable. One of us - I forget whom - was circulating that
> I was to take
> Belgium with a fleet. Why don't we just go ahead with that
> plan & I still convoy the army to Norway.
Oh aren't I silly. This does not work as my army is in YOR.
Anyway I do not think the EFG is broken & indeed I have the following
proposal:
Germany take HOL. France take Iberia. I take BEL *by convoy* and NWY with
a fleet. Natural looking moves. Then in the spring I can move NWY - BAR,
and BEL - NTH - NWY, and Germany can build armies and proceed east as
originally discussed, meanwhile France is poised to enter the Mediterranean
with authority. Within a year or two we should be able to balance out
builds, with some centers pretty obviously available for trade: BEL, SWE,
etc.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
What do you think of the revised EFG plan? I would be up for anything & my
first choice is attacking Tony. I'm game for pretty much anything but I
wanted to keep the EFG dialogue moving forward.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
>>I meant, you nearly successfully got the triple
started with yourself as Germany.>>
Aha, ok thats the DUTCH in me throwing me in the wrong direction.
But in defence I have to say my plans usually suck. So when you two went for
the EFG alliance as I suggested I then thought "wait a minute, that was to
easy. I am being set up for the slaughter" ;-)
Message from Germany to England and France
>>It may slow us down for the capture of STP but we will have the advantage
of
having disguised our intentions a bit longer.Thoughts?>>
Interesting. At least the powers that be wont think France has lost all
sense of reality it by moving to PIE ;-)
I could live with a fleet in BEL if it means I have been forgiven. I really
think the pair of you should have gone for PIC/BUR and taken BEL & HOL. But
I sure am glad you didnt, ok play wise I came out ok. Just luck. I could now
be sitting in SIL/PRU with you two in PIC/BUR and me commiting suicide in
white press ;-)
I like the idea of disguising our intentions.
Do you guys think that there is an AT in the making? Russia thinks that
there is, he is asking me for Sweden.
Message from Germany to England
I just got the big press suggesting the convoy to belgium along with the
plans for 02.
It would only mean trouble for me if you allowed france into the ENG.
We still have 11 days but all options are open. As the deadline comes nearer
we will come to an agreement.
At worst I will ask for a bounce in belgium. When I feel the pair of you are
not screaming for revenge then we shoul be able to hammer out a plan. I
understand your concern about the north. But leaving DEN to take the north
and only picking up one build (hol or bel) doesnt exactly help me if FE are
against me. So I dont think you run the risk of me moving on nth.
On the otherhand if i agree to belgium with a fleet you could still convoy
in anyway, at least then I know i will be in trouble ;-)
Lets take our time and discuss matters further with input from France.
I am open to most scenarios, if i get screwed I only have myself to blame.
Message from England to France and Germany
> I could live with a fleet in BEL if it means I have been
> forgiven.
As I said in the subsequent e-mail - I can't really do this. But I think
the convoy works just as well, as I couldn't hold BEL even if I wanted to.
> I really think the pair of you should have gone for PIC/BUR and taken
> BEL & HOL. But I sure am glad you didnt, ok play wise I came out ok. Just
> luck. I could now be sitting in SIL/PRU with you two in PIC/BUR and me
> commiting suicide in white press ;-)
Could we do Spring '01 over again please?
> I like the idea of disguising our intentions.
> Do you guys think that there is an AT in the making? Russia
> thinks that there is, he is asking me for Sweden.
My thoughts from looking at the map - the AT is *made*. Russia will never
see RUM. If we are going to try for an EFG then I do not think you should
give him SWE. We have plenty of time to hash it out.
Ben
Message from England to England
> If you and France really got together then I would now be
> in SIL/PRU. He would be in BUR and in PIC. You would be
> convoying to HOL and he would pick up BEL and bounce me
> in MUN. I would be left with egg on my face in PRU/SIL and
> just the one build surrouned by three enemies.
Of course this plan is better than the one I had. My assessment of my own
play in the spring is, I think I did a good job of sorting out the field
position & developing & executing a plan. What I did wrong was, I made a
stupid plan.
Oh well. My position diplomatically & tactically is not really compromised.
On to the fall.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> I just got the big press suggesting the convoy to belgium
> along with the plans for 02.
> It would only mean trouble for me if you allowed france into the ENG.
Um, not likely. (a) France would have to give up a build and (b) I would
have to want a foreign fleet in the *English* Channel.
> At worst I will ask for a bounce in belgium. When I feel the
> pair of you are not screaming for revenge then we shoul be
> able to hammer out a plan.
For what am I seeking revenge? Gains for me are the same either way. I
agree a great deal will depend on France.
> I understand your concern about the north. But leaving DEN to take
> the north and only picking up one build (hol or bel) doesnt exactly
> help me if FE are against me. So I dont think you run the risk of me
> moving on nth.
We can come back to this but I think my proposal gets us on track in the
north beautifully in '02 with the convoy BEL - NWY. Unit efficiency.
> On the otherhand if i agree to belgium with a fleet you could
> still convoy
> in anyway, at least then I know i will be in trouble ;-)
> Lets take our time and discuss matters further with input from France.
> I am open to most scenarios, if i get screwed I only have
> myself to blame.
Tony when I negotiate I negotiate. Next time if you don't like a plan will
you just tell me please & we can find one that's acceptable.
Ok, let's wait for France.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
> Um, not likely. (a) France would have to give up a build and (b) I would
> have to want a foreign fleet in the *English* Channel.>
I ment next spring, but as you point out it does have its risks.
> For what am I seeking revenge? Gains for me are the same either way. I
> agree a great deal will depend on France.>
Agreed
> We can come back to this but I think my proposal gets us on track in the
> north beautifully in '02 with the convoy BEL - NWY. Unit efficiency.>
True....
> Tony when I negotiate I negotiate. Next time if you don't like a plan
will
> you just tell me please & we can find one that's acceptable.>
It was fine up to about 1 hr before the deadline.
Spring 1901 plans dont mean much so most dont make any, its the thought that
counts.
But when/if a stab really comes I will forget to say the plan is not
acceptable ;-)
> Ok, let's wait for France.>
Agreed...he is probably still trying to explain his move to PIE to the other
4 players ;-)
>
> Ben
Tony
Message from Russia to England
>I wonder what the destiny of Greece is.
I'd say that's 16K of the $64,000 question down here. I've asked a
couple of people, but no one's answered yet.
Hey, I never congratulated you on your ex-teams' fabulous (though
referee-aided) victory on Monday. While watching all my teams suck
rocks, it was kinda' fun to see the ex-Baltimore Colts with that
miraculous comeback. I know it's hard to understand why I would take
any pleasure in Tampa Bay's defense getting toasted big time, but
there you have it.
I appreciate the offer of support into Swe if needed. Since Rum is
unlikely, I'm likely to be cap-in-hand looking for dots in the short
term!
--- Tzarface
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> But when/if a stab really comes I will forget to say the plan is not
> acceptable ;-)
Heh. Thanks for the warning - I thought when you stab, you send smoke
signals first.
Ok, back to waiting.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Bye the way I hope you are explaining his move to PIE as signs of a possible
FA or FT or insanity?
Its always good to misuse known facts.
Message to all
WIDDLE WABBITS
Widdle Wabbits (A Thory To Warm Your Heart)
A precious little girl walks into a pet shop and asks in the
sweetest little lisp, "Excuthe me, mithter, do you keep widdle
wabbits?"
As the shopkeeper's heart melts, he gets down on his knees, so that
he's on her level, and asks, "Do you want a widdle white wabbit or a
thoft and fuwwy bwack wabbit or maybe one like that cute widdle bwown
wabbit overthere?"
She, in turn blushes, rocks on her heels, puts her hands on her
knees, leans forward and says in a quiet voice, "I don't fink my pet python
weally gives a thit."
JUGERNAUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Message from England to Germany
> Bye the way I hope you are explaining his move to PIE as signs of a possible
> FA or FT or insanity?
> Its always good to misuse known facts.
I am saying either (a) I am still trying to figure it out or (b) I think he was tricked by Germany. What are you saying?
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Mr. Face -
> Hey, I never congratulated you on your ex-teams' fabulous (though
> referee-aided) victory on Monday. While watching all my teams suck
> rocks, it was kinda' fun to see the ex-Baltimore Colts with that
> miraculous comeback. I know it's hard to understand why I would take
> any pleasure in Tampa Bay's defense getting toasted big time, but
> there you have it.
(a) We in Baltimore do not have any relationship to the Indianapolis Colts. It is just another team.
(b) Nobody likes Tampa Bay. This is because Warren Sapp is a loud-mouthed thug.
(c) Last year we lost a game when we had the same flag ("leverage"? Is that what it was?) thrown *two times* on *consecutive misses* of the *same damned kick.* So it's not like it's never happened, and it's also not like it's never happened when it counted. It's a rule and sometimes they throw that flag. Too bad for us last year. Too bad for Tampa this year, though I think everyone agrees they should *never* have been in overtime.
> I appreciate the offer of support into Swe if needed. Since Rum is
> unlikely, I'm likely to be cap-in-hand looking for dots in the short
> term!
Agreed.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
And thtill we wait......iths bed time...cya thoon
Message from Turkey to all
I only move in accordance with the voices in my head....
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Well, the war begins.
I'm a little surprised at the apparent FG coordination, especially
against Italy. From what I'm being told, that was Germany's idea. With
FG both getting two builds, do you think they might turn them on you, or
head east?
jason
Message from Germany to England
> I am saying either (a) I am still trying to figure it out or (b) I think he was tricked by Germany. What are you saying?>
A possible FA or FT or just plane insane ;-)
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Well, the war begins.
Here we go!
> I'm a little surprised at the apparent FG coordination, especially
> against Italy. From what I'm being told, that was Germany's idea. With
> FG both getting two builds, do you think they might turn them
> on you, or head east?
Hard to say. We will learn a great deal in the fall. I am trying to get
two builds myself; we will see how it goes.
I think the spring went very well for you. I am hopeful Germany will bounce
Russia in Sweden for you & I will try to find out his intentions. Right now
he is non-committal; I think he is waiting to figure out how he wants to
proceed in the west.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
It seem Tony is doing a hell of a job coming up with
rumours of all kind, one of wich is that there's an AF
alliance going.
Heard anything?
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> It seem Tony is doing a hell of a job coming up with
> rumours of all kind, one of wich is that there's an AF
> alliance going.
Yeah, Tony's a piece of work, isn't he. I feel like I need hip boots to get
through his press. I have no particular reason to think there is an AF &
the fact that Tony might be spreading the rumor doesn't make it more likely.
. .
I think your moves are explained by an AT, is my opinion. Fine with me, as
I've said all along; we will see what happens in the fall.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Right now my thinking is, get us each two builds in '01, and look at a stab
against Germany in '02 or soon after.
What do you think?
Ben
Message from France to England
>
> Erik -
> Right now my thinking is, get us each two builds in '01, and look at a
> stab
> against Germany in '02 or soon after.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ben
That's exactly what I'm thinking. Germany is encouraging me to keep going
after Italy, but I don't think that's wise. Even with Austria's help, I
don't have the firepower to win down there without leaving myself
vulnerable somewhere else.
What's more, I don't think Austria's even interested in helping -- he's
got some sort of scheme cooking, and wants to keep Italy on friendly terms
in case he needs a "saviour" (his words, not mine). I would think this
indicated a an AI alliance of sorts, but Italy's open and other info leads
me to believe this isn't the case.
I was mad busy at work yesterday afternoon and didn't have a chance to
respond to all the dialogue between you and Germany. I'll write more this
afternoon.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
I have one major concern right now. You should be aware of it.
Assuming F Mao - Por, Gas - Spa and Pie - Mar, what if I suddenly see:
A Ruhr - Bur
A Kiel - Hol
A Yor - Nth - Bel
Then I've got to be a little worried. Why would Germany cross into
Burgundy unless he'd already spoken about it with England? A lone attack
on France by Germany would be foolish, as England would certainly be
pulled in on one side or the other, and he wouldn't want to run the risk
of you choosing the other side.
So the only thing I can do then is build an army in Paris and a fleet in
Brest, and if I see Ruhr - Bur, that's exactly what I'll do. Then it gets
ugly. You'd take the channel, but I d hold onto Mao for a while. We'd butt
heads in Picardy; Germany and I would butt heads in Burgundy. I'd be okay
down south; Italy's too worried about Austria to head boldly West and
doesn't want to see Tony succeed anyway. Meanwhile, Russia's going to see
you abandon the North and think that maybe it's worthwhile to patch things
up with Turkey.
All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be wise of you to work with Germany
against me. You won't get very far very quickly, and if I have to give up
gains, you will be the last to get them; Tony's simply more likely to take
Paris and Marseilles, especially if he gets the jump on Burgundy. And,
frankly, he's probably the biggest beneficiary in any situation in which
you and I fight, especially when Russia shows no interest in dealing with
him early and Austria's almost a puppet.
I just wanted to point this out now, before Tony's spent too much time
trying to tempt you to the dark side. I'm sure he's offered an EG the same
way that he's brought up an FG since day one. He knows he needs to keep us
split up -- his first moves are evidence enough of that. We've got to take
him out at some point, the sooner the better. I'd like to think the
picture I just painted makes that clear, and if you'd like to provide the
same reasoning to keep me from succumbing to Tony's charms, I welcome it.
Let's finish what we started here.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> That's exactly what I'm thinking. Germany is encouraging me to keep going
> after Italy, but I don't think that's wise. Even with Austria's help, I
> don't have the firepower to win down there without leaving myself
> vulnerable somewhere else.
This is true. What I would like you to do is, support my proposal to
convoy to BEL & get two builds each this year. I think that is the only
way we will stay in striking distance of a position in which we can attack
Germany. We will be walking a fine line, though, not having a I/F war. I
will try to intercede with Andy to keep him from engaging you if you want;
if you don't care then I'll leave it be. Have you told him about our
lovely experience with Tony?
> What's more, I don't think Austria's even interested in helping -- he's
> got some sort of scheme cooking, and wants to keep Italy on friendly terms
> in case he needs a "saviour" (his words, not mine). I would think this
> indicated a an AI alliance of sorts, but Italy's open and other info leads
> me to believe this isn't the case.
I think you've summed up the situation correctly.
> I was mad busy at work yesterday afternoon and didn't have a chance to
> respond to all the dialogue between you and Germany. I'll write more this
> afternoon.
:-) Write when you can. Some days I'm away from my desk, some days I'm
not. No sweat.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I have one major concern right now. You should be aware of it.
>
> Assuming F Mao - Por, Gas - Spa and Pie - Mar, what if I suddenly see:
>
> A Ruhr - Bur
> A Kiel - Hol
> A Yor - Nth - Bel
Good question.
> Then I've got to be a little worried. Why would Germany cross into
> Burgundy unless he'd already spoken about it with England? A lone attack
> on France by Germany would be foolish, as England would certainly be
> pulled in on one side or the other, and he wouldn't want to run the risk
> of you choosing the other side.
Your question is good & it's not easy for me to answer, because I cannot
promise Tony won't order RUH - BUR. But I can tell you this. I would
rather have you for an ally than Tony. Look at the press you write & look
at the press he writes. Tony is (a) pompous, (b) untrustworthy, and (c)
irritating. I would *much* rather work with you than with him. There are
other reasons, besides Tony, which make you a better ally for me. If I
tried to ally with Tony I would be Mr. Unpopular on the map, beginning with
Andy but including pretty much everyone. Also if I tried to ally with Tony
it would not only be good for Tony but it would be good for Andy, too,
because a strong France limits Italian growth. Just what I need - our two
hobby luminaries being the strongest powers on the map, by my hand.
The thought of being allied with Tony gives me shivers, and I don't mean
the good kind. I mean nails on the chalkboard. And I've got a hunch that
you feel the same. So, on this map, could I try to attack you? I suppose.
But I don't want to, and I hope I've taken the steps necessary to show you
why not. For heaven's sake, if you still have questions or something's not
clear, let me know.
> So the only thing I can do then is build an army in Paris and a fleet in
> Brest, and if I see Ruhr - Bur, that's exactly what I'll do. Then it gets
> ugly. You'd take the channel, but I d hold onto Mao for a while. We'd butt
> heads in Picardy; Germany and I would butt heads in Burgundy. I'd be okay
> down south; Italy's too worried about Austria to head boldly West and
> doesn't want to see Tony succeed anyway. Meanwhile, Russia's going to see
> you abandon the North and think that maybe it's worthwhile to patch things
> up with Turkey.
Um, Erik, I have no idea what Germany will do. Please do not plan on
throwing away our alliance if Tony does something unexpected. After all,
he did something unexpected in the spring, too.
> All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be wise of you to work with Germany
> against me. You won't get very far very quickly, and if I have to give up
> gains, you will be the last to get them; Tony's simply more likely to take
> Paris and Marseilles, especially if he gets the jump on Burgundy. And,
> frankly, he's probably the biggest beneficiary in any situation in which
> you and I fight, especially when Russia shows no interest in dealing with
> him early and Austria's almost a puppet.
Your tactical analysis is excellent. I agree that I would get the short
end of the stick. I will go you one better: I think tactically your *best
defense* would be to deny me centers while Germany picked off one or two.
It would destabilize the EG alliance.
I don't mind giving you this advice. Because the scenario in which it
would be relevant - an EG against F - is not happening.
All I'm planning on right now is:
1. Belgium
2. the North
3. stab Germany with you when possible
Why would I attack you? This plan suits me just fine.
> I just wanted to point this out now, before Tony's spent too much time
> trying to tempt you to the dark side. I'm sure he's offered an EG the same
> way that he's brought up an FG since day one. He knows he needs to keep us
> split up -- his first moves are evidence enough of that. We've got to take
> him out at some point, the sooner the better. I'd like to think the
> picture I just painted makes that clear, and if you'd like to provide the
> same reasoning to keep me from succumbing to Tony's charms, I welcome it.
> Let's finish what we started here.
Of course he's written me about an EG. He's also written about an AF and
an AFG and an RT and an AT. I think he takes prescription medication
before he sits down to write press.
You and I see the same thing in Tony. Now is the time for you to trust
someone & I hope it will be me.
Ben
p.s. I see the receipt for the press I sent a couple of hours ago just
came back. So perhaps you just got the press. This one (I hope) is fresh
when you receive it.
Message from England to England
> Erik -
> > I have one major concern right now. You should be aware of it.
> >
> > Assuming F Mao - Por, Gas - Spa and Pie - Mar, what if I suddenly see:
> >
> > A Ruhr - Bur
> > A Kiel - Hol
> > A Yor - Nth - Bel
> Good question.
Most important press I've written so far. I hope it did the trick.
Ben
Message from France to England
> Um, Erik, I have no idea what Germany will do. Please do not plan on
> throwing away our alliance if Tony does something unexpected. After
> all,
> he did something unexpected in the spring, too.
Don't worry -- I'm sure he'll send a broadcast out with his plans.
Seriously, I agree with all you've said, but I think it helps keeps an
alliance in better shape if you identify and acknowledge the ways it can
go bad. Such analysis demonstrates some thought and energy on the part of
both parties, which is at least a sign that they've got a commitment to
it.
>
> All I'm planning on right now is:
> 1. Belgium
> 2. the North
> 3. stab Germany with you when possible
> Why would I attack you? This plan suits me just fine.
Agreed. I will go for two builds and, in all likelihood, pull back from
Piedmont to Marseilles. Austria is completely unwilling to attack Italy
right now, and having an army in Tyrolia just gives Andy an opening to
attack me without doing much good against Munich. We will have a more
difficult time getting into Germany now, to be sure, but it pays to be a
little conservative right now. We should start figuring out a plan of
attack, though.
If we're lucky, Germany will end up with A Ruhr, A Hol and F Den, building
A Mun and (probably) fleet Berlin, though perhaps we can convince him to
put an army there, too. I can build A Par and F/A Bre or A Mar. I would
prefer to see you build A Lon and F Edi, but that's without knowing what
you're planning.
Hmm. On further consideration, maybe I *should* move to Tyrolia. With a
build of A Par and A Mar, that gives me a lock on Burgundy in the S02 (A
Mar - Bur, A Par S A Mar - Bur, A Tyr - Mun breaks support for Mun S Ruhr -
Bur). Intriguing. Thoughts?
We really need some pressure from Russia when the time comes. Any idea
what the heck the Turk is up to? That move to Armenia, while a good sign
that we don't have to worry about a Juggernaut, throws a wrench into
things.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Seriously, I agree with all you've said, but I think it helps keeps an
> alliance in better shape if you identify and acknowledge the ways it can
> go bad. Such analysis demonstrates some thought and energy on the part of
> both parties, which is at least a sign that they've got a commitment to
> it.
Absolutely. And a commitment to paying attention to the game, too.
> > All I'm planning on right now is:
> > 1. Belgium
> > 2. the North
> > 3. stab Germany with you when possible
> > Why would I attack you? This plan suits me just fine.
>
> Agreed. I will go for two builds and, in all likelihood, pull back from
> Piedmont to Marseilles. Austria is completely unwilling to attack Italy
> right now, and having an army in Tyrolia just gives Andy an opening to
> attack me without doing much good against Munich. We will have a more
> difficult time getting into Germany now, to be sure, but it pays to be a
> little conservative right now. We should start figuring out a plan of
> attack, though.
About the army in PIE. Here's my thinking. If you go back to MAR then Erik will see that as an abandonment of your attack against Italy and thus an attack against him (or me). If you go to TUS Andy will consider it an attack against him and if you go to TYR Erik will see it as an attack against him. Which it would be. *But* if we wanted we could play that card in the spring, and develop a plan in the fall that will keep PIE in place. The answer to that question is I think VEN. Either PIE - VEN or PIE s TRI - VEN. If you like, you can do it seriously, but the other option is try to set it up so it will *not* succeed, it just leaves PIE where it is, while giving the illusion of action. What do you think of that?
> If we're lucky, Germany will end up with A Ruhr, A Hol and F Den, building
> A Mun and (probably) fleet Berlin, though perhaps we can convince him to
> put an army there, too. I can build A Par and F/A Bre or A Mar. I would
> prefer to see you build A Lon and F Edi, but that's without knowing what
> you're planning.
I don't see how F BRE fits in with anything we've discussed.
> Hmm. On further consideration, maybe I *should* move to Tyrolia. With a
> build of A Par and A Mar, that gives me a lock on Burgundy in the S02 (A
> Mar - Bur, A Par S A Mar - Bur, A Tyr - Mun breaks support for Mun S Ruhr -
> Bur). Intriguing. Thoughts?
Interesting. I will think about it & you should too. But off the top of my head, it looks very tempting.
> We really need some pressure from Russia when the time comes. Any idea
> what the heck the Turk is up to? That move to Armenia, while a good sign
> that we don't have to worry about a Juggernaut, throws a wrench into
> things.
Well, if we persuade Germany we still want a 3-way, then he will bounce Russia from Sweden, which will give us R/G conflict.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> About the army in PIE. Here's my thinking. If you go back
> to MAR then Erik will see
Obviously I meant Tony. But this whole paragraph can be ignored if we want
to go to TYR to set up a springtime seizure of BUR. It would mean we would
end up grinding it out against Tony, but that's ok with me. At least he
wouldn't be sneaking up on us again. . .
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony
I was turning over the position in my mind & I think I found an improvement
if we decide to go with the triple & I will head north. Observe, after the
convoy to BEL, S'02: BEL - NTH - NWY; NWY - STP. In the fall I claim SWE
and you (or France, however we decide) claims BEL. This of course depends
on my ability to sneak into STP in the spring.
Back to waiting. *snore*
Ben
Message from England to England
F 01 Impressions
New thoughts on some of the other players:
Italy: Andy is the dark horse on the map. I have no idea where his fifth
center might be. He can go after Austria but not too quickly if Turkey is
to be believed about the AT v. R, in which case Andy will be crippling his
ally's ally, which I doubt he wants. He can go after France but I'm sure
he'd like to see Tony on the ropes first, which is a long ways away, now.
My guess is, he's playing a waiting game through '01 & he'll see what
happens. He's probably coaxed an AI, and sooner or later he'll choose
between his AI and his TI, I guess.
Germany & France: I am having alot of trouble diploming with Tony. His
broadcasts in the spring were nerve-wracking and I do not want to go
through that again. On the other hand, contrary to what I wrote to Erik, I
actually enjoy receiving his press & am finding it helpful. Still my first
choice is to work with Erik, who I think plays with at least a shred of
sentimental attachment to his allies, whereas I do not get that feeling at
all from Tony. Though I will add - Erik & I do not put on much of a
tactical display, that's for sure.
I think Erik wants to work with me more than he wants to work with Tony.
So that should get me going pretty well in an EF v. G. *If* that works my
next *big* worry is about an RF, as I do not think Eric G. is likely
alienating Erik the way Tony probably is. So when I move against Russia it
will have to be without warning to Erik, unless it's part of the triple, in
which case I have no choice.
Austria: I am pleased at our correspondence to this point. I will try to
keep it up.
Turkey: What a blessing to have such a compatible correspondent so far
away. I do not want to press him too much but I ought to write him soon.
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
Sounds good. I've got a message in to Germany as well. Hopefully the two
of us can establish footholds in the corners to expand from.
jason
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
I hope I am successfully negotiating with Erik but any words of
encouragement you throw his way will be appreciated.
I hope the tournament treated you well.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
I see you have still not sent out a group press to eg. Is there something
you're waiting for from me?
No rush, I just wanted to make sure I didn't overlook something.
I want to be clear with you that the convoy to BEL is strictly optional.
Say the word & I will capture with a fleet. . . Just keep in mind how you
would envision it fitting in with our larger plan.
Anyway I hope you had a nice weekend.
Ben
Message from Italy to all
Good Morning...
I owe almost all of you press. Sorry about that, i was without access all
weekend.
It will be coming out shortly.
Andy
Message from Italy to England
>
> Andy -
> I hope I am successfully negotiating with Erik but any words of
> encouragement you throw his way will be appreciated.
I just did, and I hope he works with you
> I hope the tournament treated you well.
Mostly
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
>> I hope I am successfully negotiating with Erik but any words of
>> encouragement you throw his way will be appreciated.
>
> I just did, and I hope he works with you
Thank you.
>> I hope the tournament treated you well.
>
>Mostly
Strange, I didn't see anything about it in the Baltimore Sun.
:)
I will try to make a plan this time that works. Suggestions are always welcome.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
>
> >> I hope the tournament treated you well.
> >
> >Mostly
> Strange, I didn't see anything about it in the Baltimore Sun.
It wont get any press....not even in DC.
> I will try to make a plan this time that works. Suggestions are always
welcome.
>
NWG - NWY
NTH - BEL
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> NWG - NWY
> NTH - BEL
Thanks. Getting into BEL will be the hard part - I am getting zero read on Tony.
Ben
Message from Italy to England and France
> Andy -
> > NWG - NWY
> > NTH - BEL
> Thanks. Getting into BEL will be the hard part - I am getting zero
read on Tony.
Tell Tony that it is a condition of continuing to work with him and move
north.
And if he gives it to you, you attack him, and if he doesnt, you attack
him.
Getting it is just a bonus. I dont expect him to give it to you
Andy
Message from England to France
Erik -
Well, now that we have Andy's input, I wonder what you're hearing from Tony.
Ben
Message from France to England
Ben:
I think my e-mail was a little messed up on Sunday. I sent a response but
don't see judge confirmation or anything in my sent mail. Weird.
I said we should continue the triple attempt, with you going for Belgium
and Germany going for Holland. You'll see, I'll re-send it from what I
remember writing.
Italy is not willing to support me into Tyrolia, but I don't know if that
means he'd oppose a move there. I was having identical thoughts to yours
regarding a fake support of Austria to maintain the FI hostility ruse; if
Italy cooperates, I think it's not a bad plan. A Tyr, A Par, A Mar and A
Bel gives us a formidable force to work with. If we can get the Russian to
apply some heat to the other front, I think we can begin to crack Germany
within a couple of turns.
Can you suggest the same Tyrolia plan to Italy? Perhaps it will seem less
like a ruse if it comes from both of us.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I think my e-mail was a little messed up on Sunday. I sent a response but
> don't see judge confirmation or anything in my sent mail. Weird.
I never got anything. Curious.
> I said we should continue the triple attempt, with you going for Belgium
> and Germany going for Holland. You'll see, I'll re-send it from what I
> remember writing.
Ok. In the end I think I may get bounced from BEL but that will be ok. As long as you get your 2 builds. And who knows, he may actually *do it* after we followed through in the spring.
> Italy is not willing to support me into Tyrolia, but I don't know if that
> means he'd oppose a move there. I was having identical thoughts to yours
> regarding a fake support of Austria to maintain the FI hostility ruse; if
> Italy cooperates, I think it's not a bad plan. A Tyr, A Par, A Mar and A
> Bel gives us a formidable force to work with. If we can get the Russian to
> apply some heat to the other front, I think we can begin to crack Germany
> within a couple of turns.
I agree with your analysis 100%. The problem with my suggestion for PIE s TRI - VEN is it puts Andy in a tough spot if he knows about it. He might respond by freaking out. Because if he knows you will be ordering it, the only thing he has left to decide is wheter (a) Austria knows & (b) Austria will take advantage. Tough call, for him, though of course he can support from APU if he was not intending to convoy to TUN. Anyway I like the move to TYR if we can pull it off. If it fails & I do not get into BEL then that will be rough. But there are always risks. . .
> Can you suggest the same Tyrolia plan to Italy? Perhaps it will seem less
> like a ruse if it comes from both of us.
Yeah, I'll bounce it off him. I'll let you know what he says.
How did you explain the move to PIE? Did you tell him that it was part of an "Triple" stab of Germany? I'd like to know before I write him. . .
Hope you had a nice weekend.
Ben
Message from France to England and Germany
Gentlemen:
Apologies for the delay in responding -- I had some outgoing e-mail
issues. I sent an e-mail similar to this one on Saturday, but it appears
not to have gone out. So, from memory, I'll try to reproduce what I said.
I'm in Piedmont, so I might as well press forward, right? Austria is being
fickle about moving on Italy, but I may be able to swing him around in the
next five days. Meanwhile, I can grab two builds or swing down to Wes; I'm
leaning toward the more conservative approach, simply due to the
uncertainty of all this, but F Wes certainly has its advantages.
I would suggest you two decide on an amicable Bel / Hol division.
Obviously, I'd also like to see an English fleet in Belgium, but I'm
willing to listen to arguments for an army.
Where do you two proceed next turn? Germany, will you bounce Russia from
Sweden? What kind of builds can we expect?
Erik
Message from Germany to England and France
Well we are all back at our keyboards. I will support myself to HOL. I know
England wishes to get an army in BEL to convoy north next spring. Its a
matter of trust. But BEL will be a little isolated as I can dislodge it in
the spring if need be so it is worth the gamble.
I will build armies as mentioned before and push these east or maybe push
one to MUN if need be.
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
> Well we are all back at our keyboards. I will support myself to HOL. I
know
> England wishes to get an army in BEL to convoy north next spring. Its a
> matter of trust. But BEL will be a little isolated as I can dislodge it in
> the spring if need be so it is worth the gamble.
If everyone is agreed then I will do it. I think it is more elegant,
tactically, but I would not do it if I thought I would be alienating one or
the other of you, so just let me know if either of you gets cold feet & I
will use the fleet instead.
> I will build armies as mentioned before and push these east or maybe push
> one to MUN if need be.
I imagine I will build a F EDI and an A LVP/LON, though frankly I haven't
begun to think about it yet.
Ok, orders are going in.
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
One other thing - does this mean Tony that you are going to bounce Russia
from Sweden? It would make S'02 go more smoothly if the Russian fleet were
in BOT, that's for sure.
Ben
Message from Germany to England and France
Yes it would mean me bouncing Sweden. I will wait to hear from France.
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> According to Buz Eddy:
>
> 1. Edward Hawthorne
> 2. Lisa Foster
> 3. David Hood
> 4. Andy Bartalone
> the rest has been subject to conflicting reports.
Congratulations. Outstanding!
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > According to Buz Eddy:
> >
> > 1. Edward Hawthorne
> > 2. Lisa Foster
> > 3. David Hood
> > 4. Andy Bartalone
> > the rest has been subject to conflicting reports.
>
> Congratulations. Outstanding!
>
thank you....
If you only knew how close I was to winning....
I had to sit out a round due to having an odd # of people and bieng a PTKS
boardmember.
If the sunday round was unlimited, rather than timed......I would have
solo'd and won the tourney.
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> If you only knew how close I was to winning....
>
> I had to sit out a round due to having an odd # of people and
> bieng a PTKS
> boardmember.
>
> If the sunday round was unlimited, rather than timed......I would have
> solo'd and won the tourney.
Good lord you are the Cubs. Congratulations & that's too bad about sitting
out a round. If you place 4th, do you get a plaque? Trophy? How many were
competing?
In c2 - Erik tells me you will not support PIE - TYR. I must confess I am
stunned - stunned I tell you! - by this announcement. ;-)
But I think it is in your best interest for his army to get to TYR to work
against Germany, & I think you will be happy to see PIE - TYR succeed. So
will you use your influence/units to help out that cause? Of course you
will not support him. But this is a different question. . .
Congrats again on the tourney. I feel some pain for you not winning - but
mostly just congratulations.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Andy -
> > If you only knew how close I was to winning....
> >
> > I had to sit out a round due to having an odd # of people and
> > bieng a PTKS
> > boardmember.
> >
> > If the sunday round was unlimited, rather than timed......I would have
> > solo'd and won the tourney.
> Good lord you are the Cubs. Congratulations & that's too bad about sitting
> out a round. If you place 4th, do you get a plaque? Trophy? How many were
> competing?
Yeah....plaque, won the team round, got best Austria, won the Eastern
Swing. I carried home alot of lumber.
> In c2 - Erik tells me you will not support PIE - TYR. I must confess I am
> stunned - stunned I tell you! - by this announcement. ;-)
>
ROFL.
> But I think it is in your best interest for his army to get to TYR to work
> against Germany, & I think you will be happy to see PIE - TYR succeed. So
> will you use your influence/units to help out that cause? Of course you
> will not support him. But this is a different question. . .
So do I.....this should be a very intresting round.
> Congrats again on the tourney. I feel some pain for you not winning - but
> mostly just congratulations.
Thank you
take care
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Yeah....plaque, won the team round, got best Austria, won the Eastern
> Swing. I carried home alot of lumber.
This sounds great! You must be some world class sneak to be so successful
at Diplomacy! :o)
> > In c2 - Erik tells me you will not support PIE - TYR. I must confess I
am
> > stunned - stunned I tell you! - by this announcement. ;-)
> >
> ROFL.
>
> > But I think it is in your best interest for his army to get to TYR to
work
> > against Germany, & I think you will be happy to see PIE - TYR succeed.
So
> > will you use your influence/units to help out that cause? Of course you
> > will not support him. But this is a different question. . .
>
> So do I.....this should be a very intresting round.
I'm not trying to be thickheaded, I'm just trying to get a sense of the
board, so forgive me for asking, does this mean you won't interfere with
PIE - TYR?
Not wanting to be a bother. . .
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> I'm not trying to be thickheaded, I'm just trying to get a sense of the
> board, so forgive me for asking, does this mean you won't interfere with
> PIE - TYR?
>
Yes.
Message from Austria to England
Hi Ben,
It's been a while since we last talked and I was
wondering how you were doing on your side?
Philippe
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
The Judge is acting oddly so I'm sending this off-Judge & on the Judge as
well.
I want to make sure we are all on board. Did you still want to hear
something from France? I didn't want to ask him again if you don't need
it. . .
Ben
Message from Austria to England
(second copy, sorry if first one was received)
Hi Ben,
It's been a while since we last talked and I was
wondering how you were doing on your side?
Philippe
Message from Russia to all
Greetings all,
While I'm still technically on vacation, I'm back with net access again. I
have a few minutes to write press before we're out to run errands, so I
might not get to send all the press I'd like, but I'm generally available
again. Sorry for the delay.
--- Tzarface
Message from England to Austria
Phillipe -
> It's been a while since we last talked and I was
> wondering how you were doing on your side?
Well supposedly Tony will let me into Belgium, which is nice.
I imagine you will be taking GRE? An excellent '01 for you, if you do.
Good luck!
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Hi there, I am still waiting to hear from France. I am assuming that all
will go well.
Remind me again, yor - bel and in the fall nwg - bar and bel to nwy along
with a fleet build in edi which will move on nwg? What will your second
build be? I am a little worried about two fleets, this would allow NTH to
move on HEL or SKA backed up by a supported move to NTH. With a hostile
Russia this would spell trouble for Germany. I am thinking along the lines
of one build for you. With two army builds I pose no threat. If you stick to
the plan amd convoy yor - nwy next year then I can let you into BEL. Just
thoughts. My main fear is me bouncing Russia and having France/England
picking up two and moving on me. Do you understand the fears?
As you know I prefer to negotiate from a position where I have an upperhand
(even if only slight).
Message from England to France
Erik -
Forgive me writing off-Judge but the Judge is acting weird & I wanted to
get this to you. I will also send a copy via press & we will see if it
gets through.
Anyway Tony is claiming he still wants "confirmation" from you, though I'm
not sure exactly what you are supposed to be confirming that you haven't
confirmed already. Please when you get a chance send him a press, or an eg
group press, confirming your dedication to the efg triple, or something
like that.
Clearly part of his game is to ask for a neverending series of
"confirmations" so it can be your fault when he stabs you.
Looking forward to the Judge working again -
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
It's been a while between turns, so I wanted to check in. Everything
good to go on that half of the board?
jason
Message from France to England and Germany
Gentlemen:
My apologies for being quiet, but the break made me a little lazy.
I am going to go for the two builds and see if I can get something going
with Austria against Italy. He's still reluctant, but perhaps I can force
his hand.
So, to confirm, I'll be going for my two and expect both of you too, as
well.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
Sorry, I got lax over the break. I will send a confirmation shortly to
you and Germany.
Big question: do I do the Tyrolia move or not? We need to decide soon.
Your move is clear, but I am still not sure if Pie - Tyr or Pie - Mar is
better. Any thoughts now that we've had time for reflection? I need to
study the map. Maybe go for the two builds and support Tri - Pie.
Erik
Message from Germany to England
Sorry Ben but I will negotiate from a power perspective. I am to paranoid
right now. I will bounce you in holland and belgium. As a consession I am
willing to bounce russia in sweden if you convoy to Norway and push for BAR.
The russian is in trouble down south, denying him a build in sweden will
make him easy pray for us.
I can support you into Sweden in the spring, you build an army in EDI this
year and convoy that to NWY. This will leave you with two units on STP in
the fall. I will build a fleet in BER to push for BAL. This will ensure you
pick up sweden and STP next year whilst I push for WAR with the armies. You
said to let you know if i dont like something rather than lie to you. I hope
this offer is enough. With France picking up two and you I wouldnt feel
safe.
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Big question: do I do the Tyrolia move or not? We need to decide soon.
> Your move is clear, but I am still not sure if Pie - Tyr or Pie - Mar is
> better. Any thoughts now that we've had time for reflection? I need to
> study the map. Maybe go for the two builds and support Tri - Pie.
For now let's say go to TYR. I just got a notice from Tony that he will be
bouncing me in BEL.
Not much we can do about it - I'll try to make it work.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Sorry Ben but I will negotiate from a power perspective. I am to paranoid
> right now. I will bounce you in holland and belgium. As a consession I am
> willing to bounce russia in sweden if you convoy to Norway and push for
BAR.
> The russian is in trouble down south, denying him a build in sweden will
> make him easy pray for us.
Ok. Bounce him in SWE. I am less than thrilled but you do get points for
telling me first.
> I can support you into Sweden in the spring, you build an army in EDI this
> year and convoy that to NWY. This will leave you with two units on STP in
> the fall. I will build a fleet in BER to push for BAL. This will ensure
you
> pick up sweden and STP next year whilst I push for WAR with the armies.
You
> said to let you know if i dont like something rather than lie to you. I
hope
> this offer is enough. With France picking up two and you I wouldnt feel
> safe.
Ok, as I said, I understand.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Hold on a sec. I can't convoy to Norway and bounce you in BEL. My army is
in YOR.
For me to take NWY I either convoy through NTH, or capture from NTH or NWG.
There is no convoy through NWG and bounce in BEL.
So. I will order convoy to BEL. If you want to bounce me in BEL, that's
fine; I think we will still have good options in the North in '02, along
the lines of my proposals before - F NWY - STP (or BAR), convoy to NWY,
etc. Obviously it would be much more difficult if you do not bounce Russia
in SWE.
Tell me if this compromise is acceptable.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
bounce me if you have to but my suggestion was to convoy to NWY and push NWG to BAR, build an army in EDI and convoy that in the spring to NWY. NWY could move to FIN or be supported into STP by BAR.
Message from Germany to England
** you can bounce me and take NWY. Fleet takes NWY and fleet or army bounces me in BEL **
Ben, I forgot to mention I dont fancy bouncing Russia if you are not moving to
NWY with the army and the fleet to BAR. Bouncing him would only be worthwhile
if I knew you were in NWY and BAR. By letting him build he will no doubt build
in the south and I wont have an enemy until next year. The builds I get from
BEL/HOL would be used for armies in MUN and KIE to move on russia in the spring
in a coordinated attack with you from NWY and BAR. The fleet in BER would be
used to attack BAL (with or without support from DEN).
Once again no hard feelings if you bounce with me in BEL but I
would be stupid to bounce Russia and have him team up with you next year. You
could support him to Sweden and team up with France. This would leave me with
three enemies.
I would rather play it safe and not bounce him and maybe just end up with two
enemies if worst comes to the worst. At least this way I could call on Russia
whom I could promis NWY.
Tony
Message from France to England
> For now let's say go to TYR. I just got a notice from Tony that he will
> be
> bouncing me in BEL.
>
Why did he tell you that he's bouncing you in Belgium? He's certainly been
looking for me to move to Nth in conjunction with that move, but I didn't
think he'd decided on it yet.
Erik
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I just got my receipt for this. I wrote it hours ago & received your note
since.
I will write you later but this note was sent *before* your last one to me.
Ben
> -----Original Message-----
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge [mailto:ustx@spencersoft.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 8:16 AM
> To: benjamin.harris@mindspring.com; bharris@stattorney.org
> Subject: Re: USTX:c2 - F1901M germany
>
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> :: Judge: USTX Game: C2 Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
>
> Message sent to Germany:
>
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to
> Germany in 'c2':
>
> Tony -
> Hold on a sec. I can't convoy to Norway and bounce you in
> BEL. My army is
> in YOR.
etc.
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Why did he tell you that he's bouncing you in Belgium? He's
> certainly been
> looking for me to move to Nth in conjunction with that move,
> but I didn't
> think he'd decided on it yet.
He told me ahead of time because there's nothing I can do about it. If he
tells me ahead of time, at least he doesn't seem like such a jerk.
Erik, will you go to TYR and seize BUR as you'd proposed? It was a good
plan & I didn't forget it. . . Let me know if you would like to try
something else.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> It's been a while between turns, so I
> wanted to check in. Everything good
> to go on that half of the board?
Ups and downs. I had been promised BEL but now I am learning I will be
bounced out; that's the way it goes.
How are things with you? Will Russia be getting RUM, do you think?
Ben
Message from Austria to England
(second copy, sorry if you ever receive the first one)
> Well supposedly Tony will let me into Belgium, which is nice.
What about Sweden? Do you think he will bounce it?
> I imagine you will be taking GRE? An excellent '01 for you, if you do.
Where did you hear that from? I know I wasn't very clear
with some of the others, but going for Gre would imply I
let Turkey fight Russia alone.
Philippe
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I have some good news, which is that Tony will probably not be bouncing you
out of Sweden. He could be lying but I do not know why he would.
He has also been pushing hard to convince me to convoy the army into Norway.
I have told him no. Just something to bear in mind in your dealings with
him.
Ben
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
> > Well supposedly Tony will let me into Belgium, which is nice.
Actually now he says he will be bouncing me in BEL, which is not so nice.
> What about Sweden? Do you think he will bounce it?
No. I invite you to change his mind, if you can.
> > I imagine you will be taking GRE? An excellent '01 for
> you, if you do.
>
> Where did you hear that from? I know I wasn't very clear
> with some of the others, but going for Gre would imply I
> let Turkey fight Russia alone.
I was just guessing. Nobody said anything to me about GRE.
As I've said all along, I would like to see you working alongside Turkey.
Good luck, my friend.
Ben
Message from England to England
I need AT to stick together as my guess is Tony will put Eric in Norway as
fast as he can. What I am hearing from Tony is that he is pretty much not
interested in GE working together & if I am correct I will be interested
later to see why. Still I will try to accommodate; no need to start a fire
if there isn't one going already. Also I received a new kind of errant
press - in Tony's game I'm gm'ing he sent a "press to e" in /that/ game that
he clearly meant to send to me in /this/ game. I let him know, in that
game.
Overall my confidence is fading, mostly because of my frustration trying to
deal with Tony.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> Actually now he says he will be bouncing me in BEL, which is not so nice.
In short, he's ready to declare war on you. Have you thought
of convoying to Nwy & move to Bar? At least this way you
make sure of another gain soon and 3 gains in 1901 for Tony
is bound to make other jalous ;-)
> No. I invite you to change his mind, if you can.
It's pointless. If I try to press the issue, I'm sure he won't
bounce Sweden. That's why I suggested you try to convince
him.
> I was just guessing. Nobody said anything to me about GRE.
>
> As I've said all along, I would like to see you working alongside Turkey.
OK. I was just trying to figure out where this was coming from.
> Good luck, my friend.
Good luck to you too! Hopefully, France will do the right thing
and joined you instead of letting Tony take over the world.
Philippe
Message from England to Austria
Philippe -
>> Actually now he says he will be bouncing me in BEL, which is not so nice.
> In short, he's ready to declare war on you. Have you thought
> of convoying to Nwy & move to Bar? At least this way you
> make sure of another gain soon and 3 gains in 1901 for Tony
> is bound to make other jalous ;-)
I have thought about that. On balance the disadvantages - three German builds to my one, out of position in the event of an FG, the extra enemy - seem to outweigh the advantages. On the other hand, I do not think I will be in a bad position to follow up against Russia in the North, should I manage some peaceful time on the EG front.
>> No. I invite you to change his mind, if you can.
>
> It's pointless. If I try to press the issue, I'm sure he won't
> bounce Sweden. That's why I suggested you try to convince
> him.
:-) It was pointless.
>> Good luck, my friend.
>
> Good luck to you too! Hopefully, France will do the right thing
> and joined you instead of letting Tony take over the world.
Tony might be good, but he's difficult to work with and something of a bully, so hopefully I will be able to have a French ally. If not, then I will have the excellent opportunity to observe you all from the Yahoo group. Not really my goal - I did that last time. ;o)
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
For the gallery I post here the press you sent to E in the other game. . .
***************
Message from tvernon@chello.nl as Turkey to England in 'lorax':
Ben, I forgot to mention I dont fancy bouncing Russia if you are not moving to NWY
with the army and the fleet to BAR. Bouncing him would only be worthwhile if I knew
you were in NWY and BAR. By letting him build he will no doubt build in the south
and I wont have an eney until next year. The builds I get from BEL/HOL would be
used for armies in MUN and KIE to move on russia in the spring in a coordinated
attack with you from NWY and BAR. The fleet in BER would be used to attack BAL (with
or without supp
ort from DEN). Once again no hard feelings if you bounce with me in BEL but I would
be stupid to bounce Russia and have him team up with you next year. You could support
him to Sweden and team up with France. This would leave me with three enemies.
I would rather play it safe and not bounce him and maybe just end up with two enemies
if worst comes to the worst. At least this way I could call on Russia whom I could
promis NWY.
Tony
****************
As I recall I responded to a similar note but I may not have.
Ok, as I see it, we are in a position in which you will be claiming DEN and HOL and I will be claiming NWY and bouncing you in BEL. I think this is a nice stable opening in which we have each claimed a modest piece of real estate and we are each in a good position to go against Russia next year, if we still want to. I do not know why we wouldn't, as I said, I have a nice attack in the North and you can proceed as you like in the east/south.
Ben
Message from France to England
I don't think there's an issue that we need Bur and Tyr -- that's pretty
clear now. The big question is simply, do I fake an additional attack
against Italy, get two builds, and head for Tyr / Bur in the spring, or do
we go for Tyr / Bur now?
Erik
Message from France to England
Tony:
Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
out now, screaming bloody murder.
Erik
Message from Russia to England
I don't know if I owe you press at this point. My apologies for the
silence. After my broadcast, I've been away, and am only now grabbing
a few minutes on the lunch break.
As things are going it looks like discussing the sporting events of
the last week would be more enjoyable than going over move options,
but don't have much time for either.
Anything we need to talk about? I'm still counting on that F Nwy and
the army going into the lower country so I can work with you!
--- Eric
Message from Germany to England
I have just mentioned the error in the other game to the commentors.
I am sure I had sent the origional message in this game too but anyway you
received it.
I would like to point out for the record (which we may have already done)
that neither Ben nor I noticed that he was
gm-ing a game I am playing in. Just goes to show that a good GM in a good
game can be completely invisible and forgotten. In fact I may not have
joined this game if I did notice the connection. As GM Ben can ofcourse
follow all press in the other game. Something which I dont believe he does.
That way he would see what a lying, decieving, backstabbing neighbour I can
be ;-)
OK, back to this game.
Ben, I know allowing me into BEL and HOL whilst you take NWY and push at BAR
requires a lot of trust but it would put you in a better position to attack
Russia next year. As stated I have no problem with you bouncing me in BEL
but realize then that I wont bounce Russia in Sweden. No need to upset a
neighbour when there is no need to do so.
I wouldnt want EFR ganging up on me. For now I will play safe, accept the
bounce in Belgium but not bounce Sweden.
I may need his help ;-) This should pick me up a few more honesty-up-front
points Ben. Moves are in.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I asked Greg for a deadline extension because of the Judge acting up. But
it seems ok now & I am guessing you & I are caught up with communications.
> bounce me if you have to but my suggestion was to convoy to
> NWY and push NWG to BAR, build an army in EDI and convoy that
> in the spring to NWY. NWY could move to FIN or be supported
> into STP by BAR.
My thinking was in the fall, as I said, take NWY with a fleet which then in
the spring could go to BAR or to STP while I follow through with the convoy
to NWY. This could be done with me taking BEL, as we'd discussed earlier,
or with us bouncing in BEL, as you now say you'd like. Either way you could
support me into SWE in the fall while you pick up BEL.
I am frankly reluctant to push all the way to BAR if I am only getting one
build, as I would be pretty far out of position should a FG emerge. Also
the convoy to NWY as you know is pretty much a declaration of war against
Russia which I would eschew, if I can delay it by a season.
If you do not want to bounce Russia in SWE that is fine, as I think you
rightly point out the dot will probably be used for a southern build.
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
Since mail to and from the judge has been running extremely slow over
the past several days, I'm extending the deadline.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from France to England
I think it's best to go for Tyr and Bur now. If I get two builds, I'll
have to build A Par and A Mar, and that's a sure tip-off anyway. Better to
get the position now.
Given that, can you bounce Germany in Holland and let him take Bel? Better
to have Ruhr unoccupied and unable to support Munich - Bur. I can then
move A Par - Pic and support you into Bel, forcing him into a guessing
game.
Also, maybe you should let Russia know that he's not in danger of a
northern assault right now. We might need F Swe for our cause.
Erik
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Hi there, I am still waiting to hear from France. I am assuming that all
> will go well.
Good, good. My guess is he doesn't realize you are waiting - I will write
him a note.
> Remind me again, yor - bel and in the fall nwg - bar and bel to nwy
or NWY - STP, BEL - NWY, depending.
> along
> with a fleet build in edi which will move on nwg? What will your second
> build be? I am a little worried about two fleets, this would allow NTH to
> move on HEL or SKA backed up by a supported move to NTH. With a hostile
> Russia this would spell trouble for Germany. I am thinking along the lines
> of one build for you. With two army builds I pose no threat. If you stick
to
> the plan amd convoy yor - nwy next year then I can let you into BEL. Just
> thoughts. My main fear is me bouncing Russia and having France/England
> picking up two and moving on me. Do you understand the fears?
> As you know I prefer to negotiate from a position where I have an
upperhand
> (even if only slight).
As I recall I sent a press saying my second build would be an army. I
understand your fears completely.
In the near future, if all goes well, the army would only be to garrison
the home front. You are not the only one with reasonable fears, after all.
. .
> He who dares wins ;-)
I couldn't have said it better myself. Are we going to do it, or what?
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Please send (another) confirmation as a group press. Tony claims to be
waiting for it.
I'll write more later - family business right now.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Did you still want to hear some kind of confirmation from France or are we
set?
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Mr. Face -
Welcome back from your vacation.
I will be landing in Norway with a fleet, as promised.
I am exceedingly curious to know what you've been hearing from Andy. As
far as I can tell, he's on good terms with *all* his neighbors, so
something will have to give. . .
Anyway, welcome back.
Ben
Message from England to Austria
Phillipe -
> (second copy, sorry if first one was received)
The judge is acting up. I just got your press last night - I don't know
when you sent it - and this is a second copy of the reply I already sent:
Phillipe -
> It's been a while since we last talked and I was
> wondering how you were doing on your side?
Well supposedly Tony will let me into Belgium, which is nice.
I imagine you will be taking GRE? An excellent '01 for you, if you do.
Good luck!
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
> Message from erik@spamcop.net as France to England in 'c2':
>
> Tony:
>
> Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
> out now, screaming bloody murder.
>
> Erik
Tut, tut. I am perfectly content to bounce him & I do not mind at all
getting one build as England in '01. Screaming bloody murder? Surely you
are being unfair. . .
On to the more important stuff:
> I think it's best to go for Tyr and Bur now. If I get two builds, I'll
> have to build A Par and A Mar, and that's a sure tip-off anyway. Better to
> get the position now.
I agree with this 100%.
> Given that, can you bounce Germany in Holland and let him take Bel? Better
> to have Ruhr unoccupied and unable to support Munich - Bur. I can then
> move A Par - Pic and support you into Bel, forcing him into a guessing
> game.
With the deadline extended I have time to think about this. I will get
back to you - I will do one or the other, probably bounce HOL as you
suggest.
> Also, maybe you should let Russia know that he's not in danger of a
> northern assault right now. We might need F Swe for our cause.
I am trying to cultivate Russia as an ally for us. We'll see how it goes.
What are you hearing from him?
Ben
Message from Italy to all
Folks....we have had more than enough time to put these bloody orders
in....
If you have wait set....get rid of it.
If you havent put your orders in yet......get with the program, its taken
19 days to play 1 season...and its been 13 days since Spring 01 processed,
this is not rocket science...noone has more than 4 units on the board.
rant off.
Message from Germany to England
Hi Ben, that was an old message which seems to have been shuffeled in by the
judge.
For now I understand we are bouncing in BEL, I am not bouncing Russia.
I would ofcourse prefer you convoy to NWY and push for BAR. You have stated
the problems with that scenario which I can understand.
Message from Germany to England
We are set
Message from England to France and Germany
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to
> Germany in 'c2':
>
> Tony -
> Did you still want to hear some kind of confirmation from
> France or are we
> set?
>
> Ben
>
> End of message.
This is from a few days ago. Please disregard.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> I have thought about that. On balance the disadvantages - three German builds to my one, out of position in the event of an FG,
the extra enemy - seem to outweigh the advantages. On the other hand, I do not think I will be in a bad position to follow up
against Russia in the North, should I manage some peaceful time on the EG front.
Well, there's no way to be sure of France's reaction, but if
you had to choose between a british who's clearly not
moving against you and a very strong Germany, who would
you side with?
> Tony might be good, but he's difficult to work with and something of a bully, so hopefully I will be able to have a French ally.
If not, then I will have the excellent opportunity to observe you all from the Yahoo group. Not really my goal - I did that last
time. ;o)
No no, I'm sure you aren't leaving us soon!
Philippe.
P.-S. I have just received your copy of the reply you sent
me before, thanks for sending it just in case.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
You're the player who had a baby, aren't you! It just came back to me. I
hope you're sleeping through the nights by now. . .
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> I have just mentioned the error in the other game to the commentors.
> I am sure I had sent the origional message in this game too but anyway you
> received it.
Yeah, I was discussing it with the gallery too.
> I would like to point out for the record (which we may have already done)
> that neither Ben nor I noticed that he was
> gm-ing a game I am playing in. Just goes to show that a good GM in a good
> game can be completely invisible and forgotten. In fact I may not have
> joined this game if I did notice the connection. As GM Ben can ofcourse
> follow all press in the other game. Something which I dont believe he
does.
> That way he would see what a lying, decieving, backstabbing neighbour I
can
> be ;-)
In my games in which luminaries such as yourself play, I follow the partial
press alittle more. In all games I gm I try to look at broadcasts &
oddities, such as multiple presses from one power to another without
responses. If I recall correctly, in the other game you had back to back
presses from T to E, so I checked. I wish I had *more* time to read the
partial press in some of the games I gm, but I do not have the time or
energy.
> OK, back to this game.
> Ben, I know allowing me into BEL and HOL whilst you take NWY and push at
BAR
> requires a lot of trust but it would put you in a better position to
attack
> Russia next year. As stated I have no problem with you bouncing me in BEL
> but realize then that I wont bounce Russia in Sweden. No need to upset a
> neighbour when there is no need to do so.
> I wouldnt want EFR ganging up on me. For now I will play safe, accept the
> bounce in Belgium but not bounce Sweden.
> I may need his help ;-) This should pick me up a few more honesty-up-front
> points Ben. Moves are in.
Ok, I think we are on the same page here. I don't mind the decision not to
bounce in SWE, in fact if Russia builds in the south it could work to our
benefit.
One thing bugging me - I got an errant press from France, meant for you, in
which he tells you I'm screaming my head off, or words to that effect, over
Belgium. I can see why as France he would want to stimulate friction
between E and G but there is no truth to that - I am pretty easy-going and
I am not going to have my boat rocked by getting one build as England in
'01.
Moves are in for myself as well.
Ben
Message from France to England
> Tut, tut. I am perfectly content to bounce him & I do not mind at all
> getting one build as England in '01. Screaming bloody murder? Surely
> you
> are being unfair. . .
Whoopsie. I was fishing for a reaction from Germany. I figured it was
safer to say that than "Are you really planning on bouncing England? He's
perfectly okay with that." I wasn't sure what your approach was going to
be with him on that issue.
> > Also, maybe you should let Russia know that he's not in danger of a
> > northern assault right now. We might need F Swe for our cause.
> I am trying to cultivate Russia as an ally for us. We'll see how it
> goes.
> What are you hearing from him?
He's still worried that you're heading north. He's way behind, but I think
everybody's correspondence is a little out of whack from the judge delays.
He has no idea what's going with Turkey, so we can expect him to at least
cover south.
Erik
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> I don't know if I owe you press at this point. My apologies for the
> silence. After my broadcast, I've been away, and am only now grabbing
> a few minutes on the lunch break.
I suspect you've gotten my press since you sent this one, but perhaps not.
Confounded Judge!
> As things are going it looks like discussing the sporting events of
> the last week would be more enjoyable than going over move options,
> but don't have much time for either.
Raiders are giving the Chiefs almost all they can handle, right now. 10-3
Chiefs with 8 minutes to go in the 4th.
> Anything we need to talk about? I'm still counting on that F Nwy and
> the army going into the lower country so I can work with you!
The army in the low country will probably be bounced by Germany, who is
reneging on earlier negotiations. No great loss for me, and an important
lesson to bear in mind for future negotiations.
He has been promising the world to me if only I will go to BAR and convoy
to NWY, which I told him I would not do.
Anyway, perhaps the Raiders will pull off the upset. Teams with perfect
records are boring.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Buchanon just let the punt through his fingers. First & goal Chiefs. I'm
going to sleep.
Ben
Message from Austria to England
> Well supposedly Tony will let me into Belgium, which is nice.
What about Sweden? Do you think he will bounce it?
> I imagine you will be taking GRE? An excellent '01 for you, if you do.
Where did you hear that from? I know I wasn't very clear
with some of the others, but going for Gre would imply I
let Turkey fight Russia alone.
Philippe
Message from Turkey to England
Hey Ben,
No, I don't figure Russia will get Rum - Austria's pretty gung-ho about
it. I guess he could cross me up, but he's been fairly adamant.
Just wish the turn would move on....
jason
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I know we are all set - my orders are in.
No particular reason to think this will reach you. . .
Ben
Message from France to England and Germany
Gents:
I'm going for two builds and holding onto Piedmont in an attempt to coerce
Turkey into assisting me. Just wanted to confirm with both of you. The
timing of press coming out of this judge has confused things a little, so
I think it might be best if you guys could drop a quick line outlining the
plans for next season, while you're at it.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
Okay, Tyr and Bur it is. Keep your fingers crossed. We'll both be down a
build compared to Germany, but I think we'll be in a good position -- and
maybe we can even get some help from Austria or Russia next season if they
Germany as a target of opportunity.
This game has already started to drag a little. Time to pick it back up.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
Woohoo! The Judge is back up!
> Okay, Tyr and Bur it is. Keep your fingers crossed.
Ok. :-I
Here's hoping.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I am extremely disappointed the Judge swallowed the press I sent you about
the end of the Raiders game Monday night, which I sent right after that
kick returner let the punt slip through his fingers.
As I recall it did not have anything Dip-related.
Yes I will capture NWY with a fleet. Between RUM and SWE I think you have
a fair chance of getting one of them.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> No, I don't figure Russia will get Rum - Austria's pretty gung-ho about
> it. I guess he could cross me up, but he's been fairly adamant.
The longer you can ride that horse the better for you, my friend. The T/A
will favor you as long as Andy is in Italy and your growth is comparable to
Austria's.
> Just wish the turn would move on....
Now that the Judge is up it shouldn't be long.
Ben
Message from England to England
Thanks to Greg for taking care of the Judge.
Ok, predictions for the fall, in order from most likely to craziest guess:
England:
YOR - NTH - HOL
NWG - NWY
France:
MAO - POR
GAS - BUR
PIE - TYR
I was actually not expecting this - I thought he would be ordering GAS -
SPA, MAO - POR, & building in MAR and PAR. But this is what he sent & I
won't ask him not to. . . Also one thing about his missent press irked me
- it suggested he was aware of the possibility of the bounce in BEL but he
hadn't said anything to me. He being an alliance player I'd have hoped to
have heard, but my best guess is he will keep the faith.
Turkey:
BUL - RUM
ANK - BLA
ARM - SEV
Austria:
TRI - ALB (wild guess)
SER s BUL - RUM
BUD - GAL
Italy:
VEN h
APU - ION - TUN
Keeps his options open & should not worry Jason too much, given the
diplomatic relationship in place there.
Germany:
RUH - BEL
KIE - HOL
DEN s BOT - SWE
I don't really think he's going to do this. I have no idea what DEN will
do.
Russia:
I saved this for last because it is the most painful.
UKR - GAL
SEV - BLA
MOS - UKR
BOT - SWE
This could easily be wishful thinking on my part. MOS - STP would be a
natural explanation for why MOS held in the spring. On the other hand, if
he's been colluding with Germany for a spring '02 capture of NWY, then he
could just as easily have moved south & built in STP. So like with France
I will continue to hope for the best.
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
Sorry about the long delay here. It seems that a few days ago,
everything that could go wrong did. Fortunately, I think that I've got
it all straightened out and the judge should be running better than
ever now. However, just to be sure, I'd like each of you to submit
press saying that you're not having any more trouble with the judge.
Once I see that from each of you, I'll remove wait and let the turn,
finally, process. The deadline is currently set for this Monday, so
it'll process then at the latest.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
I have heard from one of the other eastern powers that Germany is
pressuring you to engage me in the North.
I think it's kind of bizarre that I'd be hearing this from a third party to
the conversation, but if it happens to be true, please bear in mind (a)
Tony will as we've discussed say anything to anybody and (b) noone wants to
be in a war on two fronts at the same time. Garrison, as we'd discussed;
that's fine, but I hope if you are hearing foolishness from Germany - or
anyone else for that matter - you will disregard it & we will proceed with
NWY & STP unmolested by each other.
Anyway I think I am probably telling you things you already know, but after
I just got this odd press, I thought I'd write you.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Ben, here is press number two I received.
> One thing bugging me - I got an errant press from France, meant for you,
in
which he tells you I'm screaming my head off, or words to that effect, over
Belgium.>
I did not and still have not received any such press from France, maybe he
never noiced that you received it instead of me
Message from Germany to England
> No particular reason to think this will reach you. . .>
Well it did B en, I also received the on from France where he stated that
you were ranting and raving about BEl/Hol.
I have another 3 mails in the inbox, including one from the GM.
Message from Germany to England and France
Good to hear some news. As for next year, depending on the outcome of this
year I hope to be moving against Russia up north with England.
Down south I hope to be moving against Italy with France.
Message from Germany to England
> You're the player who had a baby, aren't you! It just came back to me. I
hope you're sleeping through the nights by now. . .>
Hi Ben just received a ton of press from you, maybe some press the judge had
lying around
No, no kids for me. My 3 are 13, 15 and 17.
Message from Russia to England
The whole week I was away wan an amazing sequence of sporting events that
all went exactly as I didn't want them to. But fun to watch nonetheless.
>I think it's kind of bizarre that I'd be hearing this from a third party to
>the conversation, but if it happens to be true, please bear in mind (a)
>Tony will as we've discussed say anything to anybody and (b) noone wants to
>be in a war on two fronts at the same time. Garrison, as we'd discussed;
>that's fine, but I hope if you are hearing foolishness from Germany - or
>anyone else for that matter - you will disregard it & we will proceed with
>NWY & STP unmolested by each other.
I've had numerous requests that I move to StP or build in StP in return for
being granted Swe. It was even suggested that if I only get one build that
I should build F StP/nc because I won't be making any progress in the south
if AT cooperate. Somehow, I don't get the idea he's really got my best
interests at heart in suggesting northern builds. I've given up on
responding to those requests directly, and just respond with appreciation
for the oft-repeated promises not to bounce me in Swe. I haven't been
warning you about any ongoing requests because, frankly, they are old news
at this point and I get the impression you've got a clear sense of Tony's
style and don't need me playing chicken little over here.
I think it would be more useful to you if I let you know if Tony ever asks
me NOT to setup to attack you, as that would give you a sense of whether he
ever gets serious about working with you rather than stirring up trouble.
But I will try to remember to keep you up to date on what the general tenor
of conversations is with Tony.
--- Tzarface
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> The whole week I was away wan an amazing sequence of sporting events that
> all went exactly as I didn't want them to. But fun to watch nonetheless.
You are a good-natured fan. Another surprise from a member of the Raider
Nation! ;o)
> >I think it's kind of bizarre that I'd be hearing this from a third party
to
> >the conversation, but if it happens to be true, please bear in mind (a)
> >Tony will as we've discussed say anything to anybody and (b) noone wants
to
> >be in a war on two fronts at the same time. Garrison, as we'd discussed;
> >that's fine, but I hope if you are hearing foolishness from Germany - or
> >anyone else for that matter - you will disregard it & we will proceed
with
> >NWY & STP unmolested by each other.
>
> I've had numerous requests that I move to StP or build in StP in return
for
> being granted Swe. It was even suggested that if I only get one build that
> I should build F StP/nc because I won't be making any progress in the
south
> if AT cooperate. Somehow, I don't get the idea he's really got my best
> interests at heart in suggesting northern builds.
:-o
> I've given up on
> responding to those requests directly, and just respond with appreciation
> for the oft-repeated promises not to bounce me in Swe. I haven't been
> warning you about any ongoing requests because, frankly, they are old news
> at this point and I get the impression you've got a clear sense of Tony's
> style and don't need me playing chicken little over here.
You hit the nail on the head. I feel alittle sheepish for even having
bothered you about it, but it's always nice to get your press, anyway.
> I think it would be more useful to you if I let you know if Tony ever asks
> me NOT to setup to attack you, as that would give you a sense of whether
he
> ever gets serious about working with you rather than stirring up trouble.
> But I will try to remember to keep you up to date on what the general
tenor
> of conversations is with Tony.
Thank you. Not really necessary beyond what you've been doing, as I said.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> > You're the player who had a baby, aren't you! It just came back to me.
I
> hope you're sleeping through the nights by now. . .>
>
> Hi Ben just received a ton of press from you, maybe some press the judge
had
> lying around
> No, no kids for me. My 3 are 13, 15 and 17.
Old press I suppose; I don't think I've written more than one press since
the Judge came back up.
I must have been thinking of another game; some Turkey somewhere with a new
child. . .
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> > No particular reason to think this will reach you. . .>
>
> Well it did B en, I also received the on from France where he stated that
> you were ranting and raving about BEl/Hol.
> I have another 3 mails in the inbox, including one from the GM.
As you may have guessed this was sent several days ago.
Waiting for the moves to process. *snore*
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
I've removed wait, since all seven players seem to be able to access
the judge. If any of you have wait set, please remove it, and maybe
we'll finally get this turn processed.
Greg, GM
C2
Austria: Army Budapest → Rumania
Austria: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Budapest → Rumania
Austria: Fleet Trieste SUPPORT Italian Army Apulia → Venice (*void*)
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Yorkshire → Holland
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea → Norway
England: Army Yorkshire → North Sea → Holland (*bounce*)
France: Army Gascony → Burgundy
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Spain (south coast)
France: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia
Germany: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT Russian Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → Sweden
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr → Belgium
Italy: Army Apulia → Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea CONVOY Army Apulia → Greece
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → Sweden
Russia: Army Moscow → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Rumania (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Fleet Sevastopol → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea
Turkey: Army Armenia → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Austrian Army Budapest → Rumania
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