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Message from France to Germany
Tony:
Nice moves, bud. Guess the super sneak-attack Western triple is off now.
At least I can still grab Spain and Portugal. Assuming, off course, that
I can talk my way out of Mar - Pie. You must be having a nice little
chuckle over this prank.
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Hi Erik, well I am sure that if I opened as agreed upon then England would be
convoying into BEL by now. I was seriously concerned about an ER realtionship
and that England had informed Russia of my moves.
As it is I will bounce Ben in BEL & HOL. If I was anti French then I would have
moved on BUR. I would also have informed Italy that you were moving to PIE. I
told you of his problem in VEN. If I informed him of you moving to PIE then all
he would have had to have done is bounce you in PIE and he would have still
been able to protect VEN.
This would have made me his friend. I didnt tell him so this should mean
something to you. I appreciate and understand your initial reaction but look at
the facts. I didnt inform Italy, I didnt move on BUR. I do want an FG against
England. I can help you with Italy. I am anti english.
I will be pushing Russia to work together with me against England so please
join in.
I want you to grab two builds although I would prefer you grab one and move MAO
to ENG. I can help you against Italy by building in MUN and moving on TYR.
Keep PIE where it is. We can take on England and Italy.
I will be pushing for a fleet in KIE army in MUN. I hope you join me against
England.
Maybe you can convince Austria to support you into VEN. I want you as an ally,
once again look at the facts and the board. We can take on England and Italy. A
move to ENG will set us up fine. If not grab two and build a fleet in BRE.
Convince the englishman that you are upset with me and offer to attack me with
him. Just move on ENG instead. We will be in england by the end of next year.
Message from Germany to Italy
Well I did try to warn you about PIE and suggested that you move there. Maybe
he is reliving the game where you exterminated him. Lets talk soon. Do you
think that tri - ven was a setup between France & Austria? just as wel we
suggested moving to APU. I guess you have to have APU support VEN just in case.
Lets see how the Austrian reacts. I find it a little strange that France would
attack you on his own. Maybe this explains why Austria insisted on the bounce.
At least you get TUN. Turkey attacking Russ
ia in the way he did may also point towards an AT. Combine this with a FA
attack on VEN then things begin to add up. My good news is that FE at least
dont seem to be allied against me.
Message from Germany to Russia
Let me know your thoughts.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Well guys it seems that in general we are off to a good start. France attacking
Italy only aids us to stick together.
Are AR going to stick together? I suggest they do. Italy has his hands full
with France.
Let me know what you guys are thinking.
Message from Germany to Turkey
Daring indeed, I am assuming that in doing so you at least have an alliance with Austria.
No doubt you will be pushing Austria to attack VEN with France. The last thing you want is Austria supporting a convoy of APU to GRE and or supporting UKR into RUM .
Message from Germany to Germany
Well I am not unpleased with the outcome. I am now of course hoping that I can convince France to join me in an attack on England. I have nothing to worry about from Russia.
In fact I would probably be better of bouncing him just to ensure that England doesnt convince him to join in on attack of me in DEN.
I will await the replies from England and Russia before making any decisions.
By not informing Italy about the French move to PIE I hope to create a situation where FA join up or at least one where Italy will not trust France.
In theory the GAIR and EFG alliances can still work for now. It will be interesting to see how things develop.
I am glad I didnt opt for the attack on MUN. I am sure England would have then convoyed to BEL or HOL and pursuaded France to join in an attack on me next year.
I believe France realises that considering the situation he is better off teaming up with Austria and myself.
I am not yet sure of the impact of my deceat on FE, will they team up against me? I hope that I have manipulated the board that FG will be forced together along with FA.
Message from Germany to England and France
Sorry guys I got really paranoid about an ER alliance.
I saw Russia bouncing me in SIL or PRU and England convoying to BEL or HOL.
By next year I would have the pair of them bearing down on me. Following
that I expected them to bring France on board.
The damage is minimal as England can still move on BAR and convoy YOR to
NWY. I can still bounce Russia in SWE. In the spring we can take Sweden and in
the fall we can take STP.
Forgive me my trespasses, it was purely down to the jitters of a spring
move. I ran the most risk of a stab and paranoia got the upperhand.
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
>
> Well guys it seems that in general we are off to a good start. France
attacking Italy only aids us to stick together.
>
Are AR going to stick together? I suggest they do. Italy has his hands
full with France.
> Let me know what you guys are thinking.
>
I think that is more up to Austria than up to me.
Message from Italy to Germany
> Well I did try to warn you about PIE and suggested that you move there.
When you are my ally, and you know something.....SAY IT.
Dont suggest. You knew the history.
Maybe
> he is reliving the game where you exterminated him. Lets talk soon.
I eliminated him in the last Comments game also.....
Do you
> think that tri - ven was a setup between France & Austria?
Absolutely.
just as wel we
> suggested moving to APU. I guess you have to have APU support VEN just
in case.
Yeah...but I am going to have 3 enemy fleets in the med in the spring of
02.
> Lets see how the Austrian reacts. I find it a little strange that
France would attack you on his own. Maybe this explains why Austria
insisted on the bounce.
Im sure it was that way, he sent me a note claiming innocence but made no
other statements
> At least you get TUN. Turkey attacking Russ
> ia in the way he did may also point towards an AT. Combine this with a FA
> attack on VEN then things begin to add up. My good news is that FE at least
> dont seem to be allied against me.
Exactly.
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> > Well guys it seems that in general we are off to a good start. France
> attacking Italy only aids us to stick together.
> >
> Are AR going to stick together? I suggest they do. Italy has his hands
> full with France.
> > Let me know what you guys are thinking.
> >
>
> I think that is more up to Austria than up to me.
If Italy is unable to go after Turkey, Russia is the only one
left to assist against him; but don't we risk seeing him
become a bigger partner then we wanted?
Also, I would really like to know what is happening with
France? His moves and those of England fit with a western
triple, except that Tony's moves don't. Were they trick
into something that wasn't to be?
Philippe
Message from France to Germany
> Hi Erik, well I am sure that if I opened as agreed upon then England
> would be
> convoying into BEL by now. I was seriously concerned about an ER
> realtionship
> and that England had informed Russia of my moves.
I can't blame you, but for the record, both England and I were quite
willing to see where this gambit took all of us. I don't know if he told
Russia anything about it, but based on the Russian opening, I would guess
not.
> As it is I will bounce Ben in BEL & HOL. If I was anti French then I
> would have
> moved on BUR. I would also have informed Italy that you were moving to
> PIE. I
> told you of his problem in VEN. If I informed him of you moving to PIE
> then all
> he would have had to have done is bounce you in PIE and he would have
> still
> been able to protect VEN.
No, I don't doubt that. I wasn't suggesting that you were being anti-
French, merely that you had deep sixed our opening plan, and thereby more
or less killed the point of the strategy -- that specific opening was
built around a quick, coordinated surprise attack of our neighbors, and
that's not so much possible anymore.
I was actually more worried that you'd take a different approach and
follow your broadcast orders to a T -- thereby ending up with you in
Burgundy as a result of our missed "bounce".
>
> I want you to grab two builds although I would prefer you grab one and
> move MAO
> to ENG. I can help you against Italy by building in MUN and moving on
> TYR.
> Keep PIE where it is. We can take on England and Italy.
I'm not sure that we can take on both at once. A lot of that will depend
on Austria, who, frankly, is stupified that I moved to Piedmont. If you
have some sway with him, though, maybe it's possible.
I will consider a move to Eng, but to be honest, at this point, it seems
wiser to go for the two safe builds and see what you do next.
> I will be pushing for a fleet in KIE army in MUN. I hope you join me
> against
> England.
As I said, I am considering it. In fact, I had thought that was the plan
for a few years down the road anyway; I didn't realize you preferred to go
after him earlier. I'm a little perturbed at your opening deception, but
what's done is done. Let me look at the map and get back to you. If you
have some success with Russia and/or Austria, let me know and that may
help convince me.
Erik
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
What of the Lowlands? You're not suggesting the Western Triple begins with
three builds for Germany and one each for France and England, are you?
Ben
Message from England to all
> :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
and find you?
Ben
Message from Italy to all
>
> > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
> Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
> and find you?
I am going to be at the North American Dip Championships til Monday.
starting tommorow morning
Message from Germany to Italy
Well I am afraid I didnt know it, purely based on the history it seemned the
logical conclusion.
Dont forget my initial request was for you to move there in the AIG set up.
It wasnt until Austria started making demands that the request was no longer
made.
Maybe the english I used wasnt the best way of expressing the gut feeling
that ven - pie was the move to make.
It was based on the fact that GIA were to work together. Therefore we
expand. I did try one more time and asked for rom - ven and ven - pie. Alas
the Austria had an hidden agenda. I guess the fall will reveal all as to his
intentions, especially if for now he plays the innocent but doesnt offer any
concrete moves.
I just found the insistence of tri-ven very strange, usually parties just
insist on holding, the move to PIE sheds light on the situation. I will
build in MUN and try and keep RUH where it is. I should be able to get down
to help somehow.
I guess Austria wont be convoying you to ALB. A fleet in ROM whilst Turkey
is busy with Russia whould give you enough breathing space for me to come to
help.
Will have a talk with a few powers and get back to you.
Message to all
> > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
>Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come
>and find you?
I confess. It's me.
;-)
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
Western tripple? You must explain it to me one day. All I see is England
doing a bog standard opening and France grabbing two builds and going for
Italy. Add to that the insistence on the bounce in VEN leaving two on VEN is
just as strange. The color of my units may be black but I am amazed how I
suddenly became the black sheep of the family.
Message from Germany to France
>>I can't blame you, but for the record, both England and I were quite
willing to see where this gambit took all of us. I don't know if he told
Russia anything about it, but based on the Russian opening, I would guess
not.>>
In hindsight I agree, I too would have liked to see where it ended up. But
could you inmagine my units being in PRU and SIL right now. Especially with
Russia under attack in the south. If I was England then I would convoy to
HOL or BEL.
Prefably HOL and then I would offer you BEL next year if you joined me. No,
I am glad I didnt go ahead with it. England would be laughing by now. Russia
on his side and Germany's back door wide open. I am sure that if I were in
PRU/SIL and you were playing England then you too would convoy to BEL or
HOL.
>>I'm not sure that we can take on both at once. A lot of that will depend
on Austria, who, frankly, is stupified that I moved to Piedmont. If you have
some sway with him, though, maybe it's possible.>>
Sure we can take them on, we like a good scrap. The move to PIE does look a
little weird on its own, but in context it fits perfectly. Italy is
beginnening to believe that you and Austria set him up. That would explain
the insistence of Austria on bouncing in VEN. I am sure if you and I push
him he will come on board. offer him VEN. Moving back to MAR is pointless.
Its obvious I am not after you. It also leaves MAR open for a build.
I will talk to Austria and see what I can do, but I am pretty sure he would
come onboard. I would. He must feel that Italy cant offer him any help in
any way.
>>I will consider a move to Eng, but to be honest, at this point, it seems
wiser to go for the two safe builds and see what you do next.>>
Your situation is safe. The east poses no threat and your fleet would be in
ENG. You could even afford to build an army in BRE to convoy in the spring.
If I was after you then I would not have screwed up the FEG alliance. That
would surely ensure that FE came after me. I made a decision for a partner
the moment you opened up the possibility of attack england in the near
future. All my moves are anti English (when considered in the EFG alliance).
Dont forget it was a spring move of 1901. Anything could have happened. I
could have had you two breathing down my neck with my units in PRU/SIL. I
just got lucky. But I did decide on an alliance with you when I decided to
break the EFG. Thats why I am not in BUR and you did not bounce with Italy
in PIE. England sounds to cautious, he has a sit back wait and see
mentality. Lets clean up there and nibble away at Italy. If you want to solo
you have to grab TUN anyway. Having a strong England and Germany wouldnt
help.
>>I'm a little perturbed at your opening deception, but what's done is
done>>
As I said it could have gone either way. With me in PRU/SIL then you and
england could now be in BUR and PIC.
BEL and HOL would have fallen and besides Russia I would have had you to to
contend with. Now FG have a chance to make a good start and grow.
Message from Germany to England
No Ben, I am happy just to take HOL. It was a s1901 move. If you and France
really got together then I would now be in SIL/PRU. He would be in BUR and
in PIC. You would be convoying to HOL and he would pick up BEL and bounce me
in MUN. I would be left with egg on my face in PRU/SIL and just the one
build surrouned by three enemies.
What would you do if you were F or G in this situation as the board stands?
Would you join forces bounce england in BEL and HOL and go after him?
Or would you if you were germany feeling guilty because of your paranoid
spring moves just take HOL and try and get the EFG back on track?
Or would you as England try and talk Germany into giving you BEL instead of
bouncing so you can both go after France?
I am sure the three of us will continue to talk whilst bilateral talks take
place between all three. Remeber what I said, try and take control of your
own destiny. Dont rely on me or France. Hammer out the best deal you can and
go for it. If I offer you BEL take it and stab me next spring. Dont close
all doors up front. Good luck, always ready to talk.
Message from Germany to all
> Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500Will one of you confess to
being away? Or will I have to send Tony to come and find you?>
Well the 18th is my birthday and I was planning on spending all cash
donations on a shopping spree at Harrods in f1903m (in London for the
americans under you ;-). But if the offer is right then I will be willing to
hunt the AWOLér down
Message from Germany to all
>>I am going to be at the North American Dip Championships til Monday.>>
Try and set a board up as we stand at this moment and ask 7 top players to
make fall move suggestions (backed up by the diploming that needs to be done
first).
p.s. Dont forget to share anything they say
Message to all
> > > :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
> >Will one of you confess to being away? Or will I have to send Tony to
come
> >and find you?
>
> I confess. It's me.
>
> ;-)
>
>
Tony, I am one of those expecting you to broadcast your fall moves!
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> Western tripple? You must explain it to me one day. All I see is England
> doing a bog standard opening and France grabbing two builds and going for
> Italy. Add to that the insistence on the bounce in VEN leaving two on VEN is
> just as strange. The color of my units may be black but I am amazed how I
> suddenly became the black sheep of the family.
No problem: http://devel.diplom.org/Zine/F1999R/Szykman/triple.html
I didn't say there was a western triple. I said France
might have been trick into thinking there was one,
completely different.
I would agree that France might not have been tricked
into anything and has plans of his own; but if he was,
I'm clearly not the one in position to profit from this.
It's been made quite clear since the start that Ven
would be safe in the fall.
Now, on a happier note, congratulation Tony for your
very good positionning. Are you actually aiming for 3
builds or just expecting England to bounce one of them?
Philippe
Message from Germany to Austria and France
Interesting tactics guys, congratulations you had me fooled. Now I
understand the TRI - VEN bounce when seen in context with an unnatural move
to PIE if France was working alone.
As France is looking at two builds I am assuming that Austria will be
supported into VEN.
This doesnt ensure VEN as Italy can support with APU but I must admit it
will enable the two of you to wrap Italy up rather quick. Having seen the
spring moves then I am also making the assumption that Austria is working
with Turkey and will be heading for GRE whilst he supports BUL to RUM along
with Turkeys move on BLA and SEV (cutting support). No doubt the AF alliance
will eventually cost Turkey its head.
Message from Germany to France
OK, here goes I will press to you and Austria. I will make it up as I go
along ;-)
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
OK, I have no idea what is going on so I have also pressed FA, FE, ER. If we
all are confused as I am then I dont see the move to PIE as any other than
that of an AIGR confirmation. APU gets convoyed to GRE and UKR gets
supported to RUM. Or was Italy ment to take TUN and Austria ment to get GRE
and SER?
The options are endless. My initial talks were of AIG, I am sticking to that
for now, my moves do not indicate any other alliance. If I were part of an
EFG then I wouldnt be putting a claim on BEL/HOL.
Strange you believe EFG can get a 3 way agreed and not AIG. I guess we will
all have to await the fall moves to see where the alliances are forming.
I do recall however that the last comments game consisted of three players
lieing to one power during the spring move.
Even to date this is an interesting game.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
>>Are you actually aiming for 3 builds or just expecting England to bounce
one of them?>>
Well as I am part of an AIG I thought we would all be going for maximum
builds.
As it is I expect him to bounce me in BEL or HOL. I guess I have to go for
them both.
I am assuming you dont want me to bounce in Sweden now.
If you want to turn the AIGR into an AIGT then I assume you want me to
bounce him.
On the other hand you offer to support the Turk into RUM but DONT. Instead
you support yourself into RUM from BUD. You suggest the Turk moves on BLA
and cuts support from SEV in exchange for helping him into RUM (which you
dont but him cutting support from SEV ensures that yuou get in).
As Italy at worst faces three fleets by fall next year he could convoy to
GRE.
If the pair of you are convinced that I am part of an EFG gone wrong then
VEN is not in trouble from TRI/VEN.
I guess thats something Italy has to decide. But there is still plenty of
potential for AIG.
Message from Austria to France and Germany
> Interesting tactics guys, congratulations you had me fooled. Now I
> understand the TRI - VEN bounce when seen in context with an unnatural move
> to PIE if France was working alone.
> As France is looking at two builds I am assuming that Austria will be
> supported into VEN.
> This doesnt ensure VEN as Italy can support with APU but I must admit it
> will enable the two of you to wrap Italy up rather quick. Having seen the
> spring moves then I am also making the assumption that Austria is working
> with Turkey and will be heading for GRE whilst he supports BUL to RUM along
> with Turkeys move on BLA and SEV (cutting support). No doubt the AF alliance
> will eventually cost Turkey its head.
What's going on with you two? Are you just trying
to make things interesting for the observer or is
there a point behind this ;-)
Philippe
Message from Austria to Germany and Italy
> As Italy at worst faces three fleets by fall next year he could convoy to
> GRE.
> If the pair of you are convinced that I am part of an EFG gone wrong then
> VEN is not in trouble from TRI/VEN.
> I guess thats something Italy has to decide. But there is still plenty of
> potential for AIG.
Personaly, I don't see any problem with AIG.
If there had actually been a western triple, it
would have created problems of allegiance;
but since it's not the case.
As for bouncing Sweden, Russia is a minor
partner of AGI that is needed to take down
Turkey. Since the goal isn't to see him get
strong out of it, I'm ok with seeing him get
bounced in Sweden if it doesn't interfere with
the southern plan. Your call.
Philippe.
P.-S. What's with the GFA press?
Message from Germany to Germany
If you cant convince them confuse them.
It will be interesting to see if FA see eye to eye on VEN and an eventual
alliance.
Austria has several options. I am looking forward to hearing from Russia.
The EFG alliance had me worried, I was concerned that my units were in
SIL/PRU and that behind my back FE were planning a big stab. I also would
not have been surprised if Russia had moved on SIL.
Although no communications between EFG hinted that they would do anything
other than that agreed upon was not compelling enough reason to actually go
ahead with it.
I think that the situation achieved is a reasonable result for Germany which
I hate to play. I have had bad experiences with Germany. Or I can only
remember the bad experiences.
It will now all come down to real diplomacy. I should get two builds. I just
have to use the alloted time to at least get France on my side. I am not to
worried about Russia, I may or may not bounce him. This all depends on how
well negotiations go with Russia and England. I would rather have Sweden
empty than a possible English ally docking there.
Evaluation so far: I believe Turkey acted alone. Austrian moves prove this.
No doubt Austria suggested a non agression pact and stated that he would
await the outcome before commiting himself.
Italy could have done more if there was serious talk of an AIG alliance.
Maybe Frances warning that Italy didnt trust me as far as he can throw me
explains his actions.
Russia and Austria obviously agreed on the DMZ. Just a little amazed that
once that decision was made Russia never attempted to diplome on deploying
his Moscow army to the north or west with me or any other power.
I guess most powers didnt put to much into diploming during the spring
thinking that anything could happen anyway.
It will be interesting to see just how many actually tried to make hard
plans that required commitment.
I know I did, I also know that I didnt stick to that agreed upon. What is
worse? time will tell. I only actually lied to EF. One of them I hope will
become the next victim. So actually only deceiving 1 out of 6 who turns into
an ally isnt a bad result.
Message from Germany to Austria and France
>>What's going on with you two? Are you just trying
to make things interesting for the observer or is
there a point behind this ;-)>>
Hahahaha so the pair of you still deny planning this all along. OK, i can
await the fall outcome.
If you two do decide to "let me in" then "let me know".
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
>> P.-S. What's with the GFA press?>>
As stated I pressed EF, FA, ER. I have no idea what is going on and by fall
i hope that my eyes will be opened.
Maybe Turkey and me who went it alone are the only sane ones here ;-)
I am anxiously awaiting the fall move, I hate being left out
Maybe I should try a GIT or any other 3 letter combination broadcast ;-).
Message from Germany to all
Hey Jason, I think that it was only you and me who went it alone maybe we
should team up for a 2 way?!... or did you move in accordance with...... ;-)
Message from Italy to Austria and Germany
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Message from tvernon@chello.nl as Germany to Austria and Italy in 'c2':
>
> Western tripple? You must explain it to me one day.
Tony.....please....you know what a western triple is.....
All I see is England
> doing a bog standard opening and France grabbing two builds and going for
> Italy.
Which is a standard Western Triple.....hell, France didnt come near you.
Add to that the insistence on the bounce in VEN leaving two on VEN is
> just as strange. The color of my units may be black but I am amazed how I
> suddenly became the black sheep of the family.
You arent, but dont insult me.
Message from Germany to Austria and Italy
>>Tony.....please....you know what a western triple is.....>>
Well I can understand it as in a threesome like IAG but not with some actual
moves attached as in the moves of FE with G moves gone wrong.
>>All I see is England doing a bog standard opening and France grabbing two
builds and going for
> > Italy. Which is a standard Western Triple.....hell, France didnt come
near you.>>
I know he didnt. We had an agreement we wouldnt just as I had with Russia,
Austria had one with Russia. I assume you had one with France. One I assume
Russia had with Turkey and vice versa.
England had an "I wont move on you and I hope you wont move on me approach "
which was fine with me. I went solo like Turkey only less agressive as
Turkey whilst I awaited the outcome of the AI affair in VEN.
If I would have moved on England then KIE would be in HOL.
> > The color of my units may be black but I am amazed how I
> > suddenly became the black sheep of the family.
>
> You arent, but dont insult me.
Its an insult to myself, before I saw the link I had never heared of a
"western tripple" opening combined with moves.
Only a western tripple in the sense of an alliance as in a central alliance
or eastern alliance. I couldnt even tell you the moves to a lepanto. I
always try to make alliances early and I play every round according to the
situation on the board.
Looking at it it still spells GAI.
Message from England to Germany
Erik -
> No Ben, I am happy just to take HOL. It was a s1901 move. If
> you and France
> really got together then I would now be in SIL/PRU. He would
> be in BUR and
> in PIC. You would be convoying to HOL and he would pick up
> BEL and bounce me
> in MUN. I would be left with egg on my face in PRU/SIL and
> just the one
> build surrouned by three enemies.
Wouldn't that have been clever. If I only had a brain. . .
> What would you do if you were F or G in this situation as the
> board stands?
I asked you a couple of times if you were serious about the triple. I'm not
sure I would have had the guts to try it, but you did & nearly got out of
the gate cleanly. . .
> Would you join forces bounce england in BEL and HOL and go after him?
> Or would you if you were germany feeling guilty because of
> your paranoid spring moves just take HOL and try and get the EFG back
> on track?
Guilt? I know I'd want to patch things up with at least one of EF, that's
for sure.
> Or would you as England try and talk Germany into giving you
> BEL instead of
> bouncing so you can both go after France?
Did my press to you - just you - not leave these doors open? Did my group
press not leave these doors open? I am asking for BEL. I am open to
suggestions.
> I am sure the three of us will continue to talk whilst
> bilateral talks take
> place between all three. Remeber what I said, try and take
> control of your
> own destiny. Dont rely on me or France. Hammer out the best
> deal you can and
> go for it. If I offer you BEL take it and stab me next
> spring. Dont close
> all doors up front. Good luck, always ready to talk.
Certainly always ready to talk. You put France in a tough spot. You did
not put *me* in a tough spot. And if you want to give me BEL and then want
me to stab you next turn, I can do that. ;-)
Is it reasonable to think we might try for an EFG now? Considering your
push west? It's a small matter to me - I can try for NWY and BEL either way
- but for you & France, is it doable?
Ben
Message from Russia to all
Yo' -- dere's a lot mora dem grey broadcasts going around agin.
Ceppin' fer Jason "da Kid", we'z all done our five jobs fer Don
Masseyoni an' is made men. We deserve more respect dan dis.
An' tell Ben "da' Shark" dat he don' need ta' send "Snake Eyes" Tony
out on no jobs. I'z da won wat's gonna be dealin' wit family bizness
fer a bit.
--- Tzarface
END ORIGINAL MESSAGE
=================================================
The following translation is brought to you by The Counsel for Clear
Communication through Silly Broadcast Personas (C3-SBP):
"Ben, I'm the one who requested the absence. --- Eric"
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
>Let me know your thoughts.
Thought #1 is that I would very much like Sweden! France's move to
Pie is a complete surprise to me, and I can see it meaning a few
things, but none that are good for me. In any case, I assume that I'm
seeing AT cooperation, and am just hoping that Austria is going for
Gre and Ser and not planning to support Turkey to Rum. I haven't
heard from Philippe yet, so don't have any info there. The good news
is that he did not violate the DMZ of Gal, so maybe he wasn't in on
it.
In the north EF are being very trustful of one another, so that's not
good for you. On the chance that I'm seeing an AT formed against me,
and that you may not want to see Austria get big real fast (Italy and
I could fall quickly) I wouldn't mind seeing you pick up three builds
and send an army my way (Mun-Tys/Mun-Boh) if things go really badly
for me. It's a little early to ask for that, but I'd like to discuss
it now to get a sense of whether it's a possibility in your mind
should an AT get rolling quickly.
That's it for now.
--- Tzarface
Message from Germany to England
>>Wouldn't that have been clever. If I only had a brain. . .>>
Dont underestimate yourself, just diplome, diplome, diplome.
I am sure FE would have come up with it. You were just a little to "held
back, awaiting what will happen".
>>I asked you a couple of times if you were serious about the triple. I'm
not
sure I would have had the guts to try it, but you did & nearly got out of
the gate cleanly. . .>>
It was to gutsy for Germany even for me.
But on the otherhand I didnt get or go for "clean out of the gate" I was
just reducing risks.
knowingly break the tripple knowing your moves as I did ment that I knew you
could bounce me in BEL or HOL.
So there was never any chance of a clean get away.
Although I can easily pick up HOL or I can opt to try for both which will
pick me up one of them and bounce you in the other.
My motive was purely based on experience. The tripple suggested leaves
Germany very open to an EF attack in the spring.
If I were playing France or England I would have pushed for the PIC, BUR and
convoy to HOL and the taking of BEL option. Basically STAB germany straight
away.
The added bounus would have been Turkey attacking Russia as he did. This
ensured that Germany had three enemies and thus doomen.
>>You put France in a tough spot. You did
not put *me* in a tough spot. And if you want to give me BEL and then want
me to stab you next turn, I can do that. ;-)>>
Thats the spirit ;-), besides you were never in a tough spot. Your moves
were completely natural.
I didnt actually put France in a tough spot but in a challenging spot, which
in regard to my non compliance during a spring move ensured I built in an
escape for him.
I knew of the Austrian/Italian bounce in VEN. I even told France about it. A
very unusual situation. By following through on the move to PIE whilst
Austria remains in TRI clearly points to a FA alliance in Italys eyes. Maybe
France wanted this, maybe he has an alliance with Austria.
He knew they would bounce (if he believed me, which he did else he wouldnt
have gone for the EFG tripple).
It also opens up the door for an AFG. Just making it this far with this
result is worthwhile. But there are greater challenges ahead. Which brings
us to EG.
Ofcourse all could have blown up in my face. FE to PIC/BUR
AI to TYR/BOH. I just got lucky. Which to my experience you need in s1901. I
did make one mistake. If I had known that Turkey would attack Russia then I
would have opted for kie - hol, ber - kie, mun - ruh. This would have
ensured BEL/HOL. You would then have had the choice to bounce DEN or not. I
would have retreated kie rather than bounce to allow me to build two fleets.
But thas is now not the case, we have to look at the board and see what fits
us both best.
As regards to EG the following. You have a choice. Convince France to work
with you against me (I will ofcourse be doing the same). Alternatively
convoy to NWY and move on BAR and I bounce sweden.
Russia doesnt get a build up north. You net NWY and build a fleet in LON or
EDI. You net STP next year.
Sweden can be swapped for Belgium next year to even out our forces.
Even if I build two fleets I still couldnt move on England without Frances
help. This still leaves you plenty of time to see wether the EG is working.
The second choice is; bounce me in Belgium. I would then pick up Holland and
build a fleet in KIE. I would allow Russia into Sweden and he would build a
fleet north. He needs an ally now and germany would look stronger than
england. I help him into nwy by the end of the year.
The third choice is move NTH - ENG and YOR - WAL. Pick up NWY. I bounce
sweden.
You build a fleet in london. I build armies. I support NWY to Sweden in the
spring.
I also support your convoy from wales to PIC using belgium and we take it
from there.
The fourth choice is take Belgium. Now here I run a risk. If you convoy then
an army is dangerous for me. A fleet would be safer.
The good news is you couldnt hold Belgium in the spring (if you convoyed). I
cut support from NTH and attack belgium with two units (hol and ruh). You
would have to guess correctly. Dont forget in this scenario I also have a
fleet in KIE.
The fith choice is we get the EFG going again. I get 3 builds, france gets
two and you get one. Next year you get SWE and STP. I attack PRU/SIL/BAL to
help you. Then we continue on as planned.
I am sure there is a sith, seventh and eigth choice. Which do you prefer. As
I said there is always time to talk.
Do you have any concrete suggestions as to how to continue.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
A lot for me to bite off here. I'll write more later. But for now:
By "clean out of the gate," I meant, you nearly successfully got the triple
started with yourself as Germany. I did not mean, you nearly went west.
After all, /that/ you certainly did perfectly well. :)
More later.
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
> The damage is minimal as England can still move on BAR and
> convoy YOR to NWY. I can still bounce Russia in SWE. In the spring we can
> take Sweden and in the fall we can take STP.
> Forgive me my trespasses, it was purely down to the jitters
> of a spring move. I ran the most risk of a stab and paranoia
> got the upperhand.
Well there's no question you were the most vulnerable between the three of
us. But there is a change, in that the speed of our selected opening is
limited by the fact that you went west instead of east.
Still I have a modification to propose & I hope we will agree it is
reasonable. One of us - I forget whom - was circulating that I was to take
Belgium with a fleet. Why don't we just go ahead with that plan & I still
convoy the army to Norway. This way we can hopefully regain the element of
surprise when the new German armies go east rather than west. Tony, you
could support yourself into Holland *** Kiel supporting RUH - HOL so as to
avoid future jitters *** while Erik does what he can with Italy.
It may slow us down for the capture of STP but we will have the advantage of
having disguised our intentions a bit longer.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from Germany to Russia
Hello TzarFace,
> Thought #1 is that I would very much like Sweden!>
I can follow and understand that thought.
>France's move to Pie is a complete surprise to me>
I think it was for France too in hindsight.
>I can see it meaning a few things, but none that are good for me. In any
case, I assume that I'm
> seeing AT cooperation>
I am assuming I see an FA (this would explain PIE) and possible AT
cooperation.
But if AT is the case then why didnt Austria move on GAL? Or was he unsure
of Turkey's alliance?
If he would have moved on GAL then you would really be in trouble.
> and am just hoping that Austria is going for Gre and Ser and not planning
to support Turkey to Rum.>
Thats what it looks like (bul - rum).
Probably accompanied with a move to GAL. He may allow Italy to convoy to GRE
(if he doesnt have a pact with France. But then how do we explain PIE)
Turkey can move on BLA and use ARM to cut SEV support, this would allow
Turkey to take RUM. If you order sev - rum supported by ukr and bounce arm -
sev then he at least gets the BLA. EIther way you are in trouble thre if AT
are working together.
Austria obviously didnt trust Italy to the full hence the bounce in VEN.
He may even have an alliance with France. That would explain the move to
PIE. They have two units on VEN. coincidence? Maybe Philippe was playing
safe and waiting to see if France and Turkay came through.
>I haven't heard from Philippe yet, so don't have any info there. The good
news is that he did not violate the DMZ of Gal, so maybe he wasn't in on
it.>
See above, maybe we was just awaiting the outcome of the spring and to see
if the agreements he had with FT came about. He wouldnt want to attack you
without being sure he had Turkey on his side.
> In the north EF are being very trustful of one another, so that's not
> good for you.>
Well I had a DMZ agreement with France which he kept. England had än "I will
wait and see attitude".
But I admit it doesnt look good for me.
France is to pick up Two builds, England may convoy to NWY or bounce me in
HOL or BEL.
>On the chance that I'm seeing an AT formed against me, and that you may
not want to see Austria get big real fast (Italy and I could fall quickly)
I wouldn't mind seeing you pick up three builds and send an army my way
(Mun-Tys/Mun-Boh) if things go really badly for me.>
I will be going for 3 seen as the situation calls for it, I only expect to
pick up one of them.
> It's a little early to ask for that, but I'd like to discuss it now to get
a sense of whether it's a possibility in your mind
should an AT get rolling quickly.>
Its certainly possible. I would also like to look at me being able to
support you to Norway. I could go to SKA next spring to help achieve this.
> That's it for now.>
I would like to ask one thing. If you are facing AT (i would find it very
strange if Turkey moved on his own).
What will you be doing with MOS? if AT are against you then you wont be
picking up RUM.
This leaves UKR to cover WAR should Austria move to GAL. You pick up sweden
so get a build (WAR).
MOS could move to STP in support of me for next year and for your next
build.
With you in sweden then this ensures two units on NWY for next year. I can
cut support from the NTH.
When I get to SKA there will be three against two so you will take NWY.
I fear I may be facing an EF alliance next spring. I would have enough units
to help out in the WAR area if need be.
Let me know.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
What of this:
Proceed with the EFG but slow it down. Move the fall as follows: France
takes Iberia. You take HOL and DEN. I convoy to BEL & take NWY with a
fleet. Looks natural. The spring is set up as follows, for me: NWY - BAR,
BEL - NTH - NWY. This leaves NTH covered this season, which is nice because
then I don't have the risk of DEN - NTH.
Low risk for you because as you say BEL is not really secure. Low risk for
me because NTH is not compromised. And allows France to explode into the
Med., with surprise in our favor in '02. And even growth in '01. I could
swap out BEL for SWE in '02. You build armies.
Obviously off the top of my head - curious for your thoughts.
Also my fg press for which I just received the receipt was delayed a couple
of hours by the Judge. Hope this doesn't suffer the same fate.
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
Curious - my fg press was delayed a few hours by the judge.
> Still I have a modification to propose & I hope we will agree it is
> reasonable. One of us - I forget whom - was circulating that
> I was to take
> Belgium with a fleet. Why don't we just go ahead with that
> plan & I still convoy the army to Norway.
Oh aren't I silly. This does not work as my army is in YOR.
Anyway I do not think the EFG is broken & indeed I have the following
proposal:
Germany take HOL. France take Iberia. I take BEL *by convoy* and NWY with
a fleet. Natural looking moves. Then in the spring I can move NWY - BAR,
and BEL - NTH - NWY, and Germany can build armies and proceed east as
originally discussed, meanwhile France is poised to enter the Mediterranean
with authority. Within a year or two we should be able to balance out
builds, with some centers pretty obviously available for trade: BEL, SWE,
etc.
Thoughts?
Ben
Message from Germany to England
>>I meant, you nearly successfully got the triple
started with yourself as Germany.>>
Aha, ok thats the DUTCH in me throwing me in the wrong direction.
But in defence I have to say my plans usually suck. So when you two went for
the EFG alliance as I suggested I then thought "wait a minute, that was to
easy. I am being set up for the slaughter" ;-)
Message from Germany to England and France
>>It may slow us down for the capture of STP but we will have the advantage
of
having disguised our intentions a bit longer.Thoughts?>>
Interesting. At least the powers that be wont think France has lost all
sense of reality it by moving to PIE ;-)
I could live with a fleet in BEL if it means I have been forgiven. I really
think the pair of you should have gone for PIC/BUR and taken BEL & HOL. But
I sure am glad you didnt, ok play wise I came out ok. Just luck. I could now
be sitting in SIL/PRU with you two in PIC/BUR and me commiting suicide in
white press ;-)
I like the idea of disguising our intentions.
Do you guys think that there is an AT in the making? Russia thinks that
there is, he is asking me for Sweden.
Message from Germany to France
I am game which ever way we go, if you say we go for England then we go for
England. If you say EFG then we can give that a shot. Maybe the two of you
will repay me but hey thats diplomacy. Let me know. Any luck with Austria
yet?
Message from Germany to England
I just got the big press suggesting the convoy to belgium along with the
plans for 02.
It would only mean trouble for me if you allowed france into the ENG.
We still have 11 days but all options are open. As the deadline comes nearer
we will come to an agreement.
At worst I will ask for a bounce in belgium. When I feel the pair of you are
not screaming for revenge then we shoul be able to hammer out a plan. I
understand your concern about the north. But leaving DEN to take the north
and only picking up one build (hol or bel) doesnt exactly help me if FE are
against me. So I dont think you run the risk of me moving on nth.
On the otherhand if i agree to belgium with a fleet you could still convoy
in anyway, at least then I know i will be in trouble ;-)
Lets take our time and discuss matters further with input from France.
I am open to most scenarios, if i get screwed I only have myself to blame.
Message from England to France and Germany
> I could live with a fleet in BEL if it means I have been
> forgiven.
As I said in the subsequent e-mail - I can't really do this. But I think
the convoy works just as well, as I couldn't hold BEL even if I wanted to.
> I really think the pair of you should have gone for PIC/BUR and taken
> BEL & HOL. But I sure am glad you didnt, ok play wise I came out ok. Just
> luck. I could now be sitting in SIL/PRU with you two in PIC/BUR and me
> commiting suicide in white press ;-)
Could we do Spring '01 over again please?
> I like the idea of disguising our intentions.
> Do you guys think that there is an AT in the making? Russia
> thinks that there is, he is asking me for Sweden.
My thoughts from looking at the map - the AT is *made*. Russia will never
see RUM. If we are going to try for an EFG then I do not think you should
give him SWE. We have plenty of time to hash it out.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> I just got the big press suggesting the convoy to belgium
> along with the plans for 02.
> It would only mean trouble for me if you allowed france into the ENG.
Um, not likely. (a) France would have to give up a build and (b) I would
have to want a foreign fleet in the *English* Channel.
> At worst I will ask for a bounce in belgium. When I feel the
> pair of you are not screaming for revenge then we shoul be
> able to hammer out a plan.
For what am I seeking revenge? Gains for me are the same either way. I
agree a great deal will depend on France.
> I understand your concern about the north. But leaving DEN to take
> the north and only picking up one build (hol or bel) doesnt exactly
> help me if FE are against me. So I dont think you run the risk of me
> moving on nth.
We can come back to this but I think my proposal gets us on track in the
north beautifully in '02 with the convoy BEL - NWY. Unit efficiency.
> On the otherhand if i agree to belgium with a fleet you could
> still convoy
> in anyway, at least then I know i will be in trouble ;-)
> Lets take our time and discuss matters further with input from France.
> I am open to most scenarios, if i get screwed I only have
> myself to blame.
Tony when I negotiate I negotiate. Next time if you don't like a plan will
you just tell me please & we can find one that's acceptable.
Ok, let's wait for France.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
> Um, not likely. (a) France would have to give up a build and (b) I would
> have to want a foreign fleet in the *English* Channel.>
I ment next spring, but as you point out it does have its risks.
> For what am I seeking revenge? Gains for me are the same either way. I
> agree a great deal will depend on France.>
Agreed
> We can come back to this but I think my proposal gets us on track in the
> north beautifully in '02 with the convoy BEL - NWY. Unit efficiency.>
True....
> Tony when I negotiate I negotiate. Next time if you don't like a plan
will
> you just tell me please & we can find one that's acceptable.>
It was fine up to about 1 hr before the deadline.
Spring 1901 plans dont mean much so most dont make any, its the thought that
counts.
But when/if a stab really comes I will forget to say the plan is not
acceptable ;-)
> Ok, let's wait for France.>
Agreed...he is probably still trying to explain his move to PIE to the other
4 players ;-)
>
> Ben
Tony
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> But when/if a stab really comes I will forget to say the plan is not
> acceptable ;-)
Heh. Thanks for the warning - I thought when you stab, you send smoke
signals first.
Ok, back to waiting.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Bye the way I hope you are explaining his move to PIE as signs of a possible
FA or FT or insanity?
Its always good to misuse known facts.
Message to all
WIDDLE WABBITS
Widdle Wabbits (A Thory To Warm Your Heart)
A precious little girl walks into a pet shop and asks in the
sweetest little lisp, "Excuthe me, mithter, do you keep widdle
wabbits?"
As the shopkeeper's heart melts, he gets down on his knees, so that
he's on her level, and asks, "Do you want a widdle white wabbit or a
thoft and fuwwy bwack wabbit or maybe one like that cute widdle bwown
wabbit overthere?"
She, in turn blushes, rocks on her heels, puts her hands on her
knees, leans forward and says in a quiet voice, "I don't fink my pet python
weally gives a thit."
JUGERNAUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Message from Russia to Germany
> >France's move to Pie is a complete surprise to me
>
>I think it was for France too in hindsight.
:) Austria says he didn't push for it. I told him that whether he did
or not, people are going to expect that he did.
>>I can see it meaning a few things, but none that are good for me. In any
>>case, I assume that I'm seeing AT cooperation
>
>I am assuming I see an FA (this would explain PIE) and possible AT
>cooperation.
I agree. I also think that Philippe has done a good job of making
himself the non-aggressive partner in each pairing. There's still
hope that I can work with Austria, so I haven't given up yet.
>But if AT is the case then why didnt Austria move on GAL? Or was he unsure
>of Turkey's alliance? If he would have moved on GAL then you would
>really be in trouble.
My thinking is that:
1) He wanted to see Turkey commit.
2) It gives him the flexibility to choose between R and T as allies
3) He's more worried about getting established than immediately
attacking me. If he went to Gal, he would get only one build. Had
France not hit Italy, Austria'd be sure to create an RI in that case.
>Either way you are in trouble thre if AT are working together.
We're in agreement there.
>[Austria] may even have an alliance with France. That would explain
>the move to PIE. They have two units on VEN. coincidence? Maybe
>Philippe was playing safe and waiting to see if France and Turkay
>came through.
As noted above, I think the board picture points to all of these things.
>France is to pick up Two builds, England may convoy to NWY or bounce me in
>HOL or BEL.
Or both!
>I will be going for 3 seen as the situation calls for it, I only expect to
>pick up one of them.
>
>Its [Mun going south] certainly possible. I would also like to look
>at me being able to support you to Norway. I could go to SKA next
>spring to help achieve this.
And then I could help you into the Nth, which in the end helps both of us.
>I would like to ask one thing. If you are facing AT (i would find it very
>strange if Turkey moved on his own). What will you be doing with
>MOS? if AT are against you then you wont be picking up RUM. This
>leaves UKR to cover WAR should Austria move to GAL. You pick up
>sweden so get a build (WAR).MOS could move to STP in support of me
>for next year and for your next build.
I am considering this, but I will be honest with you: I am very
concerned about leaving my southern front too wide open. What I am
really thinking is that I will use Mos to backup Sev. If I don't get
Rum, then with Arm and Bla, I need Mos in order to hold Sev against
Turkey (since A Gal can cut support from Ukr. So I will probably keep
Mos in the south. If I get one build, it will probably go into War,
as you suggest. If I get two, I would put one in War to protect Gal,
and one in StP to work with you.
Basically it comes down to this: I can live with losing StP to an
English fleet (if we attack Swe-Nwy) and still have a presence in
this game, but I don't know that I can lose Sev to an AT alliance and
still survive.
>When I get to SKA there will be three against two so you will take NWY.
>I fear I may be facing an EF alliance next spring. I would have enough units
>to help out in the WAR area if need be.
Ah. That is a good point. I will still expect to keep Mos in the
south for now, but if you get enough units to help me with War, then
I can at least consider building in StP instead of in War.
>Let me know.
It will be largely dependent on what AT say and do. As noted, I'm not
likely to move to StP, but I will consider putting the build from Swe
into StP. The best thing you could do is convince Austria to side
with me, in which case I can take Rum, put a unit in StP to get you
the Nth, and still have influence in the south.
--- Tzarface
Message from England to Germany
> Bye the way I hope you are explaining his move to PIE as signs of a possible
> FA or FT or insanity?
> Its always good to misuse known facts.
I am saying either (a) I am still trying to figure it out or (b) I think he was tricked by Germany. What are you saying?
Ben
Message from Germany to England
And thtill we wait......iths bed time...cya thoon
Message from Turkey to all
I only move in accordance with the voices in my head....
jason
Message from Turkey to Germany
Good to hear from you. Enjoying your broadcasts. ;-)
I appreciate your concern. It looks like you and France have a solid
agreement up there!
So, what are your thoughts on Sweden?
jason
Message from Germany to England
> I am saying either (a) I am still trying to figure it out or (b) I think he was tricked by Germany. What are you saying?>
A possible FA or FT or just plane insane ;-)
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
>
> I am game which ever way we go, if you say we go for England then we go
> for
> England. If you say EFG then we can give that a shot. Maybe the two of
> you
> will repay me but hey thats diplomacy. Let me know. Any luck with
> Austria
> yet?
No, no luck with Austria yet. He seems to think that Italy is going to
save him from some future evil, and doesn't want to antagonize him. I
haven't been able to hammer away at him much, as I had a busy afternoon
yesterday (which is also why I'm late getting back to you).
I will get back to you with a detailed response on EFG vs FG in a couple
of hours. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you.
Erik
Message from England to Germany
Tony
I was turning over the position in my mind & I think I found an improvement
if we decide to go with the triple & I will head north. Observe, after the
convoy to BEL, S'02: BEL - NTH - NWY; NWY - STP. In the fall I claim SWE
and you (or France, however we decide) claims BEL. This of course depends
on my ability to sneak into STP in the spring.
Back to waiting. *snore*
Ben
Message from Italy to all
Good Morning...
I owe almost all of you press. Sorry about that, i was without access all
weekend.
It will be coming out shortly.
Andy
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
My apologies for being so quiet over the weekend, but I appear to have had
some issues with my outgoing e-mail. I am resending everything today.
To be frank, I don't think it's a good idea for me to head after England
and Italy at the same time. As much as I appreciate the aggressive
approach you're suggesting, it's one that's just going to get me in
trouble, especially given how wishy-washy Austria is being. I don't think
I can fight a war on two fronts and reap benefits from both.
Mao - Eng has some obvious tactical advantages, but it still puts me at a
small loss due to England's guaranteed build in Lon and a potential second
build elsewhere. He's already got F Nth, so if get a build in Bre, my
fleet in Eng still won't have much backup, especially if he's got an
additional fleet in Edinburgh to bring down.
Now, if you were able to bounce him out of Belgium, my chances might
improve significantly. He'd still build a fleet in London, but that gives
him F Nth, F Lon and F Nrg versus our F Bre, F Eng and F Kiel. Nrg is too
far to make a difference, so we're looking at potentially taking the North
Sea within a year, three seasons tops. If we can bring Russia into Norway,
that further ups our chances.
So I think it's either-or: if Austria relents and decides that he wants to
go after Italy, I can attack there and let England stretch himself thin up
in Scandanavia. If Austria's too stubborn, I think Mao - Eng and a bounce
in Bel might be our best bet. Thoughts?
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
Gentlemen:
Apologies for the delay in responding -- I had some outgoing e-mail
issues. I sent an e-mail similar to this one on Saturday, but it appears
not to have gone out. So, from memory, I'll try to reproduce what I said.
I'm in Piedmont, so I might as well press forward, right? Austria is being
fickle about moving on Italy, but I may be able to swing him around in the
next five days. Meanwhile, I can grab two builds or swing down to Wes; I'm
leaning toward the more conservative approach, simply due to the
uncertainty of all this, but F Wes certainly has its advantages.
I would suggest you two decide on an amicable Bel / Hol division.
Obviously, I'd also like to see an English fleet in Belgium, but I'm
willing to listen to arguments for an army.
Where do you two proceed next turn? Germany, will you bounce Russia from
Sweden? What kind of builds can we expect?
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Hi Erik, good to hear from you again. Well if you will go after England then
I will surely bounce him in BEL. I either then pick up BEL or HOL. I would
then also build a fleet in KIE.
Russia is willing to help out against Englad and he is willing to move on
NWY fi I dont bounce him. He has his hands full down south.
You can pick up BEL next spring. Build and army and a fleet and I will
support you in. I dont fancy england in Belgium either. If its you at least
we have an alliance. Let me know how you get on with Austria.
Italy is weakened so he may as well join in with you to attack italy. I dont
see his problem, either he is with Turkey or not. I am guessing Turkey didnt
go it alone.
If you stay in PIE then I will also build in MUN and move on TYR if you
wish. England only gets one build, we will directly have two units on NTH
and KIE will be in SKA. He cant do both. So by fall we should be in ENG. You
may even be able to convoy to Wales. But if we go for him then I will
invlove russia (at least for norway). England cant fight all three of us.
I will prees EF as in EFG and play along until you make a definite decision.
Message from Germany to England and France
Well we are all back at our keyboards. I will support myself to HOL. I know
England wishes to get an army in BEL to convoy north next spring. Its a
matter of trust. But BEL will be a little isolated as I can dislodge it in
the spring if need be so it is worth the gamble.
I will build armies as mentioned before and push these east or maybe push
one to MUN if need be.
Message from England to France and Germany
Gentlemen -
> Well we are all back at our keyboards. I will support myself to HOL. I
know
> England wishes to get an army in BEL to convoy north next spring. Its a
> matter of trust. But BEL will be a little isolated as I can dislodge it in
> the spring if need be so it is worth the gamble.
If everyone is agreed then I will do it. I think it is more elegant,
tactically, but I would not do it if I thought I would be alienating one or
the other of you, so just let me know if either of you gets cold feet & I
will use the fleet instead.
> I will build armies as mentioned before and push these east or maybe push
> one to MUN if need be.
I imagine I will build a F EDI and an A LVP/LON, though frankly I haven't
begun to think about it yet.
Ok, orders are going in.
Ben
Message from England to France and Germany
One other thing - does this mean Tony that you are going to bounce Russia
from Sweden? It would make S'02 go more smoothly if the Russian fleet were
in BOT, that's for sure.
Ben
Message from Germany to France
If you want anti english moves agree to his press and mail me seperately.
If you want a fleet there (i do) then best you tell him it will look more
natural ;-)
Message from Germany to England and France
Yes it would mean me bouncing Sweden. I will wait to hear from France.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
The Judge is acting oddly so I'm sending this off-Judge & on the Judge as
well.
I want to make sure we are all on board. Did you still want to hear
something from France? I didn't want to ask him again if you don't need
it. . .
Ben
Message from Russia to all
Greetings all,
While I'm still technically on vacation, I'm back with net access again. I
have a few minutes to write press before we're out to run errands, so I
might not get to send all the press I'd like, but I'm generally available
again. Sorry for the delay.
--- Tzarface
Message from Germany to France
Any news yet? are we going after England? or are we going to try for the
EFG.
Do we really want england getting two builds? He will no doubt build fleets
and eventual;ly you will clash. I strongly suggest mao - eng. I will bounce
him in Holland and Belgium, one of which will bounce.
If you want to play really safe just take the two builds and build a fleet
in BRE, I will build one in KIE. By 1903 we will be in england. Let me know.
Message from Germany to England
Hi there, I am still waiting to hear from France. I am assuming that all
will go well.
Remind me again, yor - bel and in the fall nwg - bar and bel to nwy along
with a fleet build in edi which will move on nwg? What will your second
build be? I am a little worried about two fleets, this would allow NTH to
move on HEL or SKA backed up by a supported move to NTH. With a hostile
Russia this would spell trouble for Germany. I am thinking along the lines
of one build for you. With two army builds I pose no threat. If you stick to
the plan amd convoy yor - nwy next year then I can let you into BEL. Just
thoughts. My main fear is me bouncing Russia and having France/England
picking up two and moving on me. Do you understand the fears?
As you know I prefer to negotiate from a position where I have an upperhand
(even if only slight).
Message from France to England and Germany
Gentlemen:
My apologies for being quiet, but the break made me a little lazy.
I am going to go for the two builds and see if I can get something going
with Austria against Italy. He's still reluctant, but perhaps I can force
his hand.
So, to confirm, I'll be going for my two and expect both of you too, as
well.
Erik
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
Sorry about the delay, as I said in the message to you and England. I
think Mao - Nth has merit, especially if you're willing to bounce him out
of Belgium and Holland. I think I may need to pull back from Italy,
though.
How does that sound?
Erik
Message from Germany to France
No problem, I will bounce him in BEL and Holland. As for pulling back from
PIE that is obviously your choice. As I will be getting two builds (fleet
and an army in MUN) then I could move to TYR next spring (leaving you to
build a fleet in MAR). But the choice is yours. For now I am quite happy
just going after england with you. With your fleet in ENG and an army build
in BRE you can convoy to wales in the spring. So pulling pressure off Italy
is understandable unless ofcourse you can sway Austria.Lets go for it.
Message from Germany to Russia
Good luck down south. I hope from the build in sweden you will consider a
fleet up north. I hope to be supporting you into NWY next year.
Message from Germany to England
Sorry Ben but I will negotiate from a power perspective. I am to paranoid
right now. I will bounce you in holland and belgium. As a consession I am
willing to bounce russia in sweden if you convoy to Norway and push for BAR.
The russian is in trouble down south, denying him a build in sweden will
make him easy pray for us.
I can support you into Sweden in the spring, you build an army in EDI this
year and convoy that to NWY. This will leave you with two units on STP in
the fall. I will build a fleet in BER to push for BAL. This will ensure you
pick up sweden and STP next year whilst I push for WAR with the armies. You
said to let you know if i dont like something rather than lie to you. I hope
this offer is enough. With France picking up two and you I wouldnt feel
safe.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Sorry Ben but I will negotiate from a power perspective. I am to paranoid
> right now. I will bounce you in holland and belgium. As a consession I am
> willing to bounce russia in sweden if you convoy to Norway and push for
BAR.
> The russian is in trouble down south, denying him a build in sweden will
> make him easy pray for us.
Ok. Bounce him in SWE. I am less than thrilled but you do get points for
telling me first.
> I can support you into Sweden in the spring, you build an army in EDI this
> year and convoy that to NWY. This will leave you with two units on STP in
> the fall. I will build a fleet in BER to push for BAL. This will ensure
you
> pick up sweden and STP next year whilst I push for WAR with the armies.
You
> said to let you know if i dont like something rather than lie to you. I
hope
> this offer is enough. With France picking up two and you I wouldnt feel
> safe.
Ok, as I said, I understand.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Hold on a sec. I can't convoy to Norway and bounce you in BEL. My army is
in YOR.
For me to take NWY I either convoy through NTH, or capture from NTH or NWG.
There is no convoy through NWG and bounce in BEL.
So. I will order convoy to BEL. If you want to bounce me in BEL, that's
fine; I think we will still have good options in the North in '02, along
the lines of my proposals before - F NWY - STP (or BAR), convoy to NWY,
etc. Obviously it would be much more difficult if you do not bounce Russia
in SWE.
Tell me if this compromise is acceptable.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
bounce me if you have to but my suggestion was to convoy to NWY and push NWG to BAR, build an army in EDI and convoy that in the spring to NWY. NWY could move to FIN or be supported into STP by BAR.
Message from Germany to England
** you can bounce me and take NWY. Fleet takes NWY and fleet or army bounces me in BEL **
Ben, I forgot to mention I dont fancy bouncing Russia if you are not moving to
NWY with the army and the fleet to BAR. Bouncing him would only be worthwhile
if I knew you were in NWY and BAR. By letting him build he will no doubt build
in the south and I wont have an enemy until next year. The builds I get from
BEL/HOL would be used for armies in MUN and KIE to move on russia in the spring
in a coordinated attack with you from NWY and BAR. The fleet in BER would be
used to attack BAL (with or without support from DEN).
Once again no hard feelings if you bounce with me in BEL but I
would be stupid to bounce Russia and have him team up with you next year. You
could support him to Sweden and team up with France. This would leave me with
three enemies.
I would rather play it safe and not bounce him and maybe just end up with two
enemies if worst comes to the worst. At least this way I could call on Russia
whom I could promis NWY.
Tony
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I just got my receipt for this. I wrote it hours ago & received your note
since.
I will write you later but this note was sent *before* your last one to me.
Ben
> -----Original Message-----
> From: USTX Diplomacy Judge [mailto:ustx@spencersoft.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 8:16 AM
> To: benjamin.harris@mindspring.com; bharris@stattorney.org
> Subject: Re: USTX:c2 - F1901M germany
>
>
> USTX Diplomacy Judge
>
> now running njudge 1.4.0
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Please report judge problems to judgekeeper@spencersoft.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> :: Judge: USTX Game: C2 Variant: Standard
> :: Deadline: F1901M Mon Oct 20 2003 23:30:00 -0500
>
> Message sent to Germany:
>
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to
> Germany in 'c2':
>
> Tony -
> Hold on a sec. I can't convoy to Norway and bounce you in
> BEL. My army is
> in YOR.
etc.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
For the gallery I post here the press you sent to E in the other game. . .
***************
Message from tvernon@chello.nl as Turkey to England in 'lorax':
Ben, I forgot to mention I dont fancy bouncing Russia if you are not moving to NWY
with the army and the fleet to BAR. Bouncing him would only be worthwhile if I knew
you were in NWY and BAR. By letting him build he will no doubt build in the south
and I wont have an eney until next year. The builds I get from BEL/HOL would be
used for armies in MUN and KIE to move on russia in the spring in a coordinated
attack with you from NWY and BAR. The fleet in BER would be used to attack BAL (with
or without supp
ort from DEN). Once again no hard feelings if you bounce with me in BEL but I would
be stupid to bounce Russia and have him team up with you next year. You could support
him to Sweden and team up with France. This would leave me with three enemies.
I would rather play it safe and not bounce him and maybe just end up with two enemies
if worst comes to the worst. At least this way I could call on Russia whom I could
promis NWY.
Tony
****************
As I recall I responded to a similar note but I may not have.
Ok, as I see it, we are in a position in which you will be claiming DEN and HOL and I will be claiming NWY and bouncing you in BEL. I think this is a nice stable opening in which we have each claimed a modest piece of real estate and we are each in a good position to go against Russia next year, if we still want to. I do not know why we wouldn't, as I said, I have a nice attack in the North and you can proceed as you like in the east/south.
Ben
Message from Germany to Germany
I indeed sent a reply to Ben only I did this in another game where he is GM.
The England in that game assumed it was for another game (as he isnt called
Ben and my moves didnt make sense ;-) and informed me of the error. At
roughly the same time Ben in formed me as master of the error. Neither
England in that game or in this game seemed to have received the press I
sent to both mentioning the error before they spotted it. hahahaha it can
get very confusing reply press in serveral games at once.
Message from Germany to England
I have just mentioned the error in the other game to the commentors.
I am sure I had sent the origional message in this game too but anyway you
received it.
I would like to point out for the record (which we may have already done)
that neither Ben nor I noticed that he was
gm-ing a game I am playing in. Just goes to show that a good GM in a good
game can be completely invisible and forgotten. In fact I may not have
joined this game if I did notice the connection. As GM Ben can ofcourse
follow all press in the other game. Something which I dont believe he does.
That way he would see what a lying, decieving, backstabbing neighbour I can
be ;-)
OK, back to this game.
Ben, I know allowing me into BEL and HOL whilst you take NWY and push at BAR
requires a lot of trust but it would put you in a better position to attack
Russia next year. As stated I have no problem with you bouncing me in BEL
but realize then that I wont bounce Russia in Sweden. No need to upset a
neighbour when there is no need to do so.
I wouldnt want EFR ganging up on me. For now I will play safe, accept the
bounce in Belgium but not bounce Sweden.
I may need his help ;-) This should pick me up a few more honesty-up-front
points Ben. Moves are in.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I asked Greg for a deadline extension because of the Judge acting up. But
it seems ok now & I am guessing you & I are caught up with communications.
> bounce me if you have to but my suggestion was to convoy to
> NWY and push NWG to BAR, build an army in EDI and convoy that
> in the spring to NWY. NWY could move to FIN or be supported
> into STP by BAR.
My thinking was in the fall, as I said, take NWY with a fleet which then in
the spring could go to BAR or to STP while I follow through with the convoy
to NWY. This could be done with me taking BEL, as we'd discussed earlier,
or with us bouncing in BEL, as you now say you'd like. Either way you could
support me into SWE in the fall while you pick up BEL.
I am frankly reluctant to push all the way to BAR if I am only getting one
build, as I would be pretty far out of position should a FG emerge. Also
the convoy to NWY as you know is pretty much a declaration of war against
Russia which I would eschew, if I can delay it by a season.
If you do not want to bounce Russia in SWE that is fine, as I think you
rightly point out the dot will probably be used for a southern build.
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
Since mail to and from the judge has been running extremely slow over
the past several days, I'm extending the deadline.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Hi there, I am still waiting to hear from France. I am assuming that all
> will go well.
Good, good. My guess is he doesn't realize you are waiting - I will write
him a note.
> Remind me again, yor - bel and in the fall nwg - bar and bel to nwy
or NWY - STP, BEL - NWY, depending.
> along
> with a fleet build in edi which will move on nwg? What will your second
> build be? I am a little worried about two fleets, this would allow NTH to
> move on HEL or SKA backed up by a supported move to NTH. With a hostile
> Russia this would spell trouble for Germany. I am thinking along the lines
> of one build for you. With two army builds I pose no threat. If you stick
to
> the plan amd convoy yor - nwy next year then I can let you into BEL. Just
> thoughts. My main fear is me bouncing Russia and having France/England
> picking up two and moving on me. Do you understand the fears?
> As you know I prefer to negotiate from a position where I have an
upperhand
> (even if only slight).
As I recall I sent a press saying my second build would be an army. I
understand your fears completely.
In the near future, if all goes well, the army would only be to garrison
the home front. You are not the only one with reasonable fears, after all.
. .
> He who dares wins ;-)
I couldn't have said it better myself. Are we going to do it, or what?
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Did you still want to hear some kind of confirmation from France or are we
set?
Ben
Message from Italy to all
Folks....we have had more than enough time to put these bloody orders
in....
If you have wait set....get rid of it.
If you havent put your orders in yet......get with the program, its taken
19 days to play 1 season...and its been 13 days since Spring 01 processed,
this is not rocket science...noone has more than 4 units on the board.
rant off.
Message from Germany to England
Hi Ben, that was an old message which seems to have been shuffeled in by the
judge.
For now I understand we are bouncing in BEL, I am not bouncing Russia.
I would ofcourse prefer you convoy to NWY and push for BAR. You have stated
the problems with that scenario which I can understand.
Message from Germany to England
We are set
Message from England to France and Germany
> Message from benjamin.harris@mindspring.com as England to
> Germany in 'c2':
>
> Tony -
> Did you still want to hear some kind of confirmation from
> France or are we
> set?
>
> Ben
>
> End of message.
This is from a few days ago. Please disregard.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
You're the player who had a baby, aren't you! It just came back to me. I
hope you're sleeping through the nights by now. . .
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> I have just mentioned the error in the other game to the commentors.
> I am sure I had sent the origional message in this game too but anyway you
> received it.
Yeah, I was discussing it with the gallery too.
> I would like to point out for the record (which we may have already done)
> that neither Ben nor I noticed that he was
> gm-ing a game I am playing in. Just goes to show that a good GM in a good
> game can be completely invisible and forgotten. In fact I may not have
> joined this game if I did notice the connection. As GM Ben can ofcourse
> follow all press in the other game. Something which I dont believe he
does.
> That way he would see what a lying, decieving, backstabbing neighbour I
can
> be ;-)
In my games in which luminaries such as yourself play, I follow the partial
press alittle more. In all games I gm I try to look at broadcasts &
oddities, such as multiple presses from one power to another without
responses. If I recall correctly, in the other game you had back to back
presses from T to E, so I checked. I wish I had *more* time to read the
partial press in some of the games I gm, but I do not have the time or
energy.
> OK, back to this game.
> Ben, I know allowing me into BEL and HOL whilst you take NWY and push at
BAR
> requires a lot of trust but it would put you in a better position to
attack
> Russia next year. As stated I have no problem with you bouncing me in BEL
> but realize then that I wont bounce Russia in Sweden. No need to upset a
> neighbour when there is no need to do so.
> I wouldnt want EFR ganging up on me. For now I will play safe, accept the
> bounce in Belgium but not bounce Sweden.
> I may need his help ;-) This should pick me up a few more honesty-up-front
> points Ben. Moves are in.
Ok, I think we are on the same page here. I don't mind the decision not to
bounce in SWE, in fact if Russia builds in the south it could work to our
benefit.
One thing bugging me - I got an errant press from France, meant for you, in
which he tells you I'm screaming my head off, or words to that effect, over
Belgium. I can see why as France he would want to stimulate friction
between E and G but there is no truth to that - I am pretty easy-going and
I am not going to have my boat rocked by getting one build as England in
'01.
Moves are in for myself as well.
Ben
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
This judge has been a little funky. I'm not sure everything has made its
way between us.
Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
out now, screaming bloody murder.
In any case, F Eng seems like the best plan. I can live with one build for
now. A Pie has to come back, given Austria's reticence.
Are we still pretending like we've got a triple, now that you've announced
your intention to deny England a build?
Erik
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I know we are all set - my orders are in.
No particular reason to think this will reach you. . .
Ben
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
You there? Haven't heard much in a couple of days -- I think these
extended breaks have been grinding this game down a bit.
Given that, I will definitely be pulling back from Italy to focus on
England. Austria just isn't giving me the support that you are, so it
makes sense to work where I've got some help. MAO - Eng it is.
Of course, you'll have two builds to my one, but I think I can live with
the imparity for a season, especially given your block of England and the
advantage that fleet will give us.
You'd said that Russia had offered help against England -- given Turkey's
moves, do you really think this is likely?
Erik
Message from France to England and Germany
Gents:
I'm going for two builds and holding onto Piedmont in an attempt to coerce
Turkey into assisting me. Just wanted to confirm with both of you. The
timing of press coming out of this judge has confused things a little, so
I think it might be best if you guys could drop a quick line outlining the
plans for next season, while you're at it.
Erik
Message from Master to all
Players,
Sorry about the long delay here. It seems that a few days ago,
everything that could go wrong did. Fortunately, I think that I've got
it all straightened out and the judge should be running better than
ever now. However, just to be sure, I'd like each of you to submit
press saying that you're not having any more trouble with the judge.
Once I see that from each of you, I'll remove wait and let the turn,
finally, process. The deadline is currently set for this Monday, so
it'll process then at the latest.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Germany to England
Ben, here is press number two I received.
> One thing bugging me - I got an errant press from France, meant for you,
in
which he tells you I'm screaming my head off, or words to that effect, over
Belgium.>
I did not and still have not received any such press from France, maybe he
never noiced that you received it instead of me
Message from Germany to France
> This judge has been a little funky. I'm not sure everything has made its
way between us>
Hi Erik, this is the first time I have received anything from you for some
time. If you have sent more then I havent received it.
> Did you tell England that you're bouncing him in Bel/Hol? He's freaking
out now, screaming bloody murder.>
Well I told both of you in a joint press that I would be moving to Bel/Hol.
> In any case, F Eng seems like the best plan. I can live with one build for
now. A Pie has to come back, given Austria's reticence.>
I agree on the F ENG. It would give us the best chance for next year.
> Are we still pretending like we've got a triple, now that you've announced
your intention to deny England a build?>
Yes, he did seem to accept this. As you say the judge does seem to be a
little lost.
England is still convinced we are on a tripple, thats why the move to ENG
wil freak him out.
Message from Germany to England
> No particular reason to think this will reach you. . .>
Well it did B en, I also received the on from France where he stated that
you were ranting and raving about BEl/Hol.
I have another 3 mails in the inbox, including one from the GM.
Message from Germany to France
Yes its been very quiet. I also think people havent been sending in press as
it doesnt seem to be going anywhere.
I have just received a bucket load in my in-box.
Good to hear you are onboard for the fight against England.
I will be bouncing him in Bel/Hol. No doubt he will go for Hol to bloack a
fleet build in KIE, I would. But i cant risk it so I will be moving on
Hol/Bel. He then only gets one build.
Russia is willing to help out where he can. If things work out well he will
build in STP(nc). He definitely doesnt want me to bounce him in Sweden.
Something I wont be doing, if he is unable to build in the north then he is
willing to move on NWY next year.
Message from Germany to England and France
Good to hear some news. As for next year, depending on the outcome of this
year I hope to be moving against Russia up north with England.
Down south I hope to be moving against Italy with France.
Message from Germany to England
> You're the player who had a baby, aren't you! It just came back to me. I
hope you're sleeping through the nights by now. . .>
Hi Ben just received a ton of press from you, maybe some press the judge had
lying around
No, no kids for me. My 3 are 13, 15 and 17.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> > You're the player who had a baby, aren't you! It just came back to me.
I
> hope you're sleeping through the nights by now. . .>
>
> Hi Ben just received a ton of press from you, maybe some press the judge
had
> lying around
> No, no kids for me. My 3 are 13, 15 and 17.
Old press I suppose; I don't think I've written more than one press since
the Judge came back up.
I must have been thinking of another game; some Turkey somewhere with a new
child. . .
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> > No particular reason to think this will reach you. . .>
>
> Well it did B en, I also received the on from France where he stated that
> you were ranting and raving about BEl/Hol.
> I have another 3 mails in the inbox, including one from the GM.
As you may have guessed this was sent several days ago.
Waiting for the moves to process. *snore*
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
I've removed wait, since all seven players seem to be able to access
the judge. If any of you have wait set, please remove it, and maybe
we'll finally get this turn processed.
Greg, GM
C2
Austria: Army Budapest → Rumania
Austria: Army Serbia SUPPORT Army Budapest → Rumania
Austria: Fleet Trieste SUPPORT Italian Army Apulia → Venice (*void*)
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Yorkshire → Holland
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea → Norway
England: Army Yorkshire → North Sea → Holland (*bounce*)
France: Army Gascony → Burgundy
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Spain (south coast)
France: Army Piedmont → Tyrolia
Germany: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT Russian Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → Sweden
Germany: Army Kiel → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr → Belgium
Italy: Army Apulia → Ionian Sea → Greece
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea CONVOY Army Apulia → Greece
Italy: Army Venice → Trieste (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia → Sweden
Russia: Army Moscow → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Sevastopol → Rumania (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Fleet Sevastopol → Rumania
Turkey: Fleet Ankara → Black Sea
Turkey: Army Armenia → Sevastopol (*bounce*)
Turkey: Army Bulgaria SUPPORT Austrian Army Budapest → Rumania
|