|
|
France: Removes 1 unit
Russia: Builds 2 units
Message from Italy to England and France
Jesus Erik..if you had told me you were pulling back I probably wouldnt
have attacked you at all.
But I will take some of the blame for this one, I was just being aggresive
and maybe I should have made it clearer that if you did back off me I
would not be attacking you.
I think you both should send Eric a note telling him that you are both
setting draw.
andy
Message from England to France and Italy
Andy -
Erik & I had discussed the plan privately beforehand. It was a conservaive play, that's all. We were not trying to shut you out and I don't think Erik will miss the unit - all in all I think it is time to set draw.
Eric won't be pushed into setting draw soon, but I will write him again letting him know I'm doing it & I imagine Erik will do the same.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Any lumber from Portland? So many trees. . .
Ben
Message from Russia to England
Interesting moves. Not sure what Ska-Swe was all about. I guess a peace
offering to Erik? I think we could still take him out if you want, but as
noted before, that might be somewhat boring.
It'll be interesting to see what Andy wants to do.
Anyway, nothing much to say, but I wanted to keep in touch.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
> Interesting moves. Not sure what Ska-Swe was all about. I guess a peace
> offering to Erik?
I hadn't remembered I'd done it until you reminded me just now. It did not have much of a point besides to persuade my various partners that I am not going a-whittlin.
> I think we could still take him out if you want, but as
> noted before, that might be somewhat boring.
Take out Erik? Or do you mean Andy?
> It'll be interesting to see what Andy wants to do.
Andy wants to be in the draw. Also Erik scored some big points by withdrawing from ROM.
> Anyway, nothing much to say, but I wanted to keep in touch.
I'm jealous of you going to DipCon. I'm not sure I'd have the nerve to jump into tourney Dip like that - I haven't played *any* ftf in years, probably two or three games total in my life. Congratulations on going swimming with the sharks!
I'm setting draw with this press.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
Ok, no surprises in the results. Hopefully we are downhill to the end. . .
Ben
Message from Russia to England and France
I had started writing this in response to Ben, but looking at it, I think
that it's appropriate to send to both of you.
The ONLY reason that I'm still pressing is because of Erik's misorder of
Bur-Mar instead of Bur-Mun three seasons ago, which opened the door to all of
this. If you look back, I ordered support for Erik to move Bur-Mun three
seasons ago, and had that succeeded, the three way would already be complete.
I had been working towards a three-way honestly. When I said that it was safe
for the three of us to eliminate Andy, it was.
With that in mind, I will repeat that as soon as it becomes clear that a solo
is not possible (which could well be this season), then I will make it *very*
easy to eliminate Andy. I can go into details of this, but it comes down to
the fact that Erik has enough units to hold the Med whoever ends up in Italy,
and I'm only a threat as long as I'm in German centers.
So my point is that I know that Ben is hesitant after this last push I've
made. And Erik, I don't know what your feeling is about me with my deception
to ensure I got to Apu -- you might think I've been trying to set you up or
am being unnecessarily aggressive. But once my push is stopped (and I think
that could come with this set of moves) and I make it safe, I hope you won't
leave Andy to live out of general gunshy-ness or worries over future
misorders. If we are in a situation where there are no real dangers to
eliminating Andy, I hope we can agree to do that. To make it more worth your
while I can say that I don't see myself setting draw until Andy is
eliminated, one way or the other.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
> I'm jealous of you going to DipCon. I'm not sure I'd have the nerve to
jump
> into tourney Dip like that - I haven't played *any* ftf in years, probably
two
> or three games total in my life. Congratulations on going swimming with
the
> sharks!
Well, as noted, it was my first experience ever in ftf.
My first game wasn't so bad. I was Russia and was part of a nominal F?R
alliance (I forget who was the third power). While my moves in that game were
okay, my builds sucked rocks. The way the system worked was that you had a
set amount of time to diplom -- typically 10-15 minutes per round. As soon as
the time ended, the time for the next round began. That meant that time spent
adjudicating, ordering retreats, and ordering builds came out of the next
round's diplomacy. The pressure to build quickly led me to make VERY
sub-optimal build choices. But the real problem was that France ended up
making an alliance with Germany that he refused to break. Facing a mostly
ineffective AT, I got into Ber and Kie, with England's help. But France
refused to take the easy path to removing Germany, so my position basically
crumbled.
The second game I was England, and was forced into a western triple because
Austria was played by someone who was in two games at once, leading to IRT
just dismbowling him. I made the mistake of being the first in EFG to stab
(trying to take out France) and FG dismantled me. I hung around for a long
time by making the right guesses (and getting Russia to keep stabbing Germany
in Scandinavia), but it was really a lost cause.
The third game was pretty funny and depressing. I was Austria, Jeff Dwornicki
(a very good ftf player) was Italy, Andy Marshall (another very good ftf
player) was Turkey and fearless leader Doug Massey was Russia. I knew I was
in for trouble when Jeff's initial negotiation with me was "if we can't do a
key lepanto [where I let him move to Tri and then to Ser] then I don't see
how we can work together". In Fall 01 I faced IA Ven, IA Tyl, GA Boh, RA Gal,
RA Rum, TA Bul and TF Aeg. It was *not* a pretty picture. Doug then moved
Gal-Sil and War-Pru, which gave me several years of life. But I was never
able to get IT or RT to break. In the end, I ended up being eliminated and
the game was called a 6 way draw! :o
The last game was my best. It was the first game in which I was actually able
to see the stab on the other side of the board that made the EF stab on me
inevitable and was able to prep for it. Basically, Austria was pressuring me
enough that EF couldn't afford to take me out, but Turkey had positioning on
Austria. I realized that if Turkey stabbed Austria, then EF would fall on me
while Austria was backing up. So I told Turkey that if he was going to stab
Austria, be sure to get to the line quickly, so I could get him across it. I
also told Italy that if he moved on France (as we had both agreed to do
eventually) that I'd help him take centers.
The result was that Turkey stabbed Austria (as expected). Then EF moved on me
(as expected) while Turkey made a bee-line for the stalemate line and Italy
pushed towards Iberia (as hoped). That plus two turns of good guesses on
defense for me forced EF to back off -- France couldn't hold the Atlantic and
England couldn't hold the Mos-War-Sil-Mun stalemate line if they fought me.
Whew!
Anyway, more detail than you were asking for, but it *was* a neat experience.
--- Eric
Message from France to England and Russia
With the way our units were set out, there was no way for me to hold or
gain the Italian peninsula; there was also no way to guarantee Munich for
the Western powers. As such, we had to assume you would use Andy's ire
towards us to push for a solo, which you did. Our only rational response
was to firmly establish defensible stalemate lines and make it clear to
Andy that we had no intention of eliminating him -- otherwise, we faced a
possible throw (Berlin taking a walk).
In order to successfully draw without giving you a solo, we need full
control of Germany or full control of Italy, and we need to eliminate
Andy's ability to throw to you. Otherwise, we'll continue to maintain the
status quo.
Erik
Message from Russia to England and France
> As such, we had to assume you would use Andy's ire
> towards us to push for a solo, which you did.
Agreed. I felt like I had to make the attempt.
> Our only rational response
> was to firmly establish defensible stalemate lines and make it clear to
> Andy that we had no intention of eliminating him -- otherwise, we faced a
> possible throw (Berlin taking a walk).
Agreed as well. I think you played the last turn very well.
> In order to successfully draw without giving you a solo, we need full
> control of Germany or full control of Italy, and we need to eliminate
> Andy's ability to throw to you. Otherwise, we'll continue to maintain the
> status quo.
Agreed again. I have to make the first move to back out and make it safe
before it is rational for the two of you to do anything at all towards Andy.
My point was simply that once I do meet all of those conditions, that you
won't insist on the 4WD.
--- Eric
Message from England to France and Russia
> My point was simply that once I do meet all of those conditions, that you
> won't insist on the 4WD.
We will cross that bridge when we come to it.
Ben
Message from Russia to England and France
>> My point was simply that once I do meet all of those conditions, that you
>> won't insist on the 4WD.
[That should have said, "that I hope you won't insist"]
>We will cross that bridge when we come to it.
Agreed yet one more time. I don't expect either of you to tell me what your
commitment is, or even to make a commitment at this point. In many ways I was
just saying "here's what I'm thinking about how this will all go down". There
really isn't a need on my part for you two to respond, or to promise
anything.
The purpose of writing was to ensure that you are both aware that I am
looking at the three-way draw, that I am willing to make it safe (forceable)
on your side, and in fact I did -- by ordering support for Bur-Mun -- make it
forceable earlier. I was afraid that me being silent might imply that I
wasn't interested in the three way, or that my previous attempt at getting to
the three way was somehow disingenuous.
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
You get an A in my book, and I don't doubt that if Erik had taken MUN, we
would not now be wondering whether I will pop BER. I don't know whether
you've noticed - can't remember if you've participated in these discussions
- I'm not a huge fan of draw whittling. Not that I won't do it; it's just
a game-by-game decision.
And I challenge anyone in this game or any of my others, to call me a
carebear. ;-) "Stabby stabby," I've been called, but never "carebear."
Ben
Message from Russia to England
> Eric -
> You get an A in my book, and I don't doubt that if Erik had taken MUN, we
> would not now be wondering whether I will pop BER. I don't know whether
> you've noticed - can't remember if you've participated in these discussions
> - I'm not a huge fan of draw whittling. Not that I won't do it; it's just
> a game-by-game decision.
I agree in general. It seems silly to me to spend lots of time to whittle
someone if it takes any real effort. The issue for me is that it is likely
that as long as Andy is not eliminated, there's a chance that I might be able
to sway him to support me to a solo. As long as that's the case, it'll be
hard for me to justify sett(l)ing for a draw. If I back off and you two
eliminate him, we can get this thing over with sooner.
> And I challenge anyone in this game or any of my others, to call me a
> carebear. ;-) "Stabby stabby," I've been called, but never "carebear."
Again, it's not so much about you as about me. I felt obliged to try for the
solo when it was there. As long as there's still a legitimate shot I'll
probably feel like I should try for it. To not try to take a solo is *me*
being a carebear, not you. Whittling for the sake of whittling is not as
important to me, though as noted above, there are times -- like this one --
when it makes more sense to me.
Anyway, we'll see where it goes. This may be a lot of talk for no real reason
depending on how the moves turn out.
Also, FWIW, my builds are in without wait.
--- Eric
France: REMOVE Army Paris
Russia: BUILD Fleet Sevastopol
Russia: BUILD Army Warsaw
Centers
England: 10
France: 6
Italy: 3
Russia: 15
|