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Message from Germany to England
>I am not sure you will benefit from the wisdom of a person whose ambition
is
to survive as a one center puppet in STP.>
Thats's why you will be a 1 center puppet in PAR remember.
p.s. Did you receive my mail with suggestions?
Message from Germany to France
>When I'm one of three people in a position to grab and/or hold
your territory after this turn? Funny.>
That's what is was meant to be.
>I am concerned about Russia and
England, though, so I am, as always willing to talk. Iri is a great move,
particularly if I can be sure that the English won't get a build this
turn. Perhaps he would be willing to consider supporting you back into
Denmark just for the sake of denying the English build. He is worried
about them in Scandanvia, I believe.>
So too would I be if I were Russia. I have pressed him. I made it clear I wasnt happy with his moves but stated that this was diplomacy and I am open to suggestions. I havent heared back from him yet. If worst comes to the worst I have to decide whom I will make it difficult for to grab a german sc FE or R.
I hope there still is room for negotiations with you and or Russia. I am no threat to either and can be of good use.
Message from Germany to Russia
> You said something about it never being too late to make amends. I agree
with that philosophy, but I'm honestly at a loss for how we can do that
right now. If you have any specific ideas I'm open to suggestions.>
Well I have spoken to France, he is interested in moving on IRI. This would take some pressure off you.
He would consider the move a likely option if he was sure that England did not receive a build.
I always play the board as is, an enemy one day is an ally the next. I look for a win/win situation.
I can retake Denmark with your help. In return you receive an ally who is of no real threat.
With France in IRI and pushing SPA - MAO and building in BRE England will be forced to return and defend his home sc's. This gives you the break you need in Scandinavia.
If I get DEN back then I can help you. If you push Norway to Sweden and help support HEL to DEN and somehow convince England that you will support him to KIE (with help from NTH cutting HELand BAL supporting DEN - KIE) then his fleet in SKA can push for DEN. Offer him two builds off me. He ends up with none.
France gets to keep Holland, pushes for IRI (as you have convinced him that England wont get a build) and he builds a fleet in BRE. Your gain is that England doesnt go for Scandinavia and i cant hurt you and France is piling on the pressure in England. France will go for it if he is convinced England doesnt build. You dont lose Norway and England sdoesnt build two units. I suggest therefor SWE - NWY, SIL - PRU, BAL S HEL - DEN. This sets you up to convoy to Sweden next spring. I would also be willing to push DEN to SKA and let your fleet pass through Denmark in the spring so that we could get three fleets (EGR) on NTH for the fall move instead if need be.
Talk to France and let me know.
> I thought about using your password to submit favorable orders, but decided
> that was a bad idea. :) (That is completely a joke -- I would not do that even if I thought I could
> get away with it.)>
hahahahaha, I wasn't amazed I messed up in yahoo groups. It's the second time this month. I did the same in pinnacle-d. I have changed all passwords just to make sure. I always use the same one for all games (13 at the moment) so I had a lot of set passwords to submit. I trust the community fully and no one would indeed try it.
Funny though the mistakes that happen. The worst I hate most is getting the enbroadcast/broadcast wrong and powers receiving press they shouldnt. I now ensure I send seperate press to prevent this happening again.
Another blunder I make is sending to the wrong power. Playing 13 games where all press is usually sent around the same time is a little confusing sometimes.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I did get an excellent note from you yesterday. This was my response:
> Tony -
> Thanks for putting so much thought into your response. I'm
> still digging
> through it - busy day. I'll write tomorrow, if I get a chance.
>
> Ben
As promised - I will write later, if I get a chance. Busy day today, too,
and you gave me a lot to think about. We have time, for this deadline.
Ben
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Your suggestions sound fantastic to me. I could even imagine having you move
Ber-Sil with support so that I can disband A War (which I shouldn't have
built in the first place) and rebuild it as F StP/nc. Though that may be too
much to ask of you at this point, since then you might worry that I'd try to
walk into Ber. (I don't think that's in my best interests right now, but I
don't think there's any reason for you to trust me on that).
So I like your plan. Let me talk to England and see what I can find out from
him, too.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Germany
I have no idea what I am trying to achieve just yet. I hope it all falls
into place by the time the moves are due. The good thing is that EFR are all
taking to me. My situation is really bad, but as the song goes "always look
on the bright side of life". Who am I kidding I am toast. I will be lucky to
stay on 3 sc's. But where there is life there is hope. It will be
interesting to see how the press develops between EFGR.
I am just trying to survive the best I can. Any insight into any moves would
be very helpful right now. I will just talk to each powers greed.
Message from Germany to Russia
Good to hear. I am sure if you sell to England that you too are a little
worried abot France and that I may throw my SC's to him you will get
Englands attention. Say that you have offered to support HOL - KIE from BAL
and that you will cut support from BER. Tell him instead of supporting the
frenchman in you will support DEN - KIE. Ask him to cut support from HEL.
This means that he can safely move SKA - DEN thus getting two builds off me
without making you an enemy. I am sure he is more than willing to have you
as an ally. He must be worried of an FR alliance right now.
Dont forget to talk to France regarding the alliance against England. Make
it clear to him that England gaining two builds off you and me is as bad for
France as it is for you.
Message from Germany to France
I have a feeling that Russia will be willing to talk about England. I could
hit Holland with everything I got and hope that ER wont cut support from
RUH, KIE, HEL. A tall order for you to achieve as I am sure they are both
worried about what to do themselves without having to worry about you
keeping Holland.
I think the FRG has more potential. Ironic that England who suggested the
western alliance in the first place would be on the receiving end instead. I
think the move to IRI along with Russia helping me set up England and by
thus saving Scandinavia offers the best for all (except England). You and
Russia have done well so far, England hasnt made much of his opportunities.
I am also sure you dont want ER running off with all the German spoils. Talk
to Russia and let me know. You could if you wish get a three way press
going.
Message from Germany to England
OK Ben, look forward to hearing from you
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Thanks for all the advice in your last message. I have already started down
several of the paths you have suggested. Luckily, I had previously promised
England that I would support Den-Kie in Fall, so hopefully he'll still want
to go through with it.
I took a slightly different approach than you suggested in discussing moves:
I asked England which move he thinks we need to cover (Hel S Kie-Den, or Kie
S Hel-Den). I think we're okay in either case. As long as he moves Den then
Kie S Hel-Den, Bal S Hel-Den and Hel-Den would overwhelm Nth S Ska-Den (or
Ska S Nth-Den). But you are right, I probably should have suggested that he
tap Hel and see what he says.
I've also asked France to tip me off if he hears about England coming after
me. If that happens, I may ask you to tap Nth while I order Bal S Kie-Den.
That should still get you Den (unless he orders Ska S Den), and will either
keep England from building, or will get you Nth, either of which are big
advantages.
On the topic of misdirected press, I am ALWAYS paranoid about doing that.
I've been lucky so far, though I did send a message that I intended for
someone in this game to a player who had the same power in another game. Much
better than the other way around though: I know at least a couple of people
in my other games are observers of this one -- sending you press intended for
a Germany in one of those games would be essentially broadcasting it by
mistake! Every second or third letter I send I have that "Oh <bleep>! Did I
address that to the right player?" kind of panic.
--- Eric
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I will get this out quick - Thanksgiving weekend & a busy week before;
sorry for being brief & I hope it makes some sense.
> Well Russia is becoming very powerful.
Yes.
> I was a little sceptic of the AI press to join them Especially of Italy.
The
> build didn't tally either.
I had wanted an AI to fight RT but it wasn't meant to be.
> I pressed them stating I needed to know more and questioned if they were
> really together. Austria obviously didnt trust Italy fully but he was
hoping
> for an alliance to stop the RT onslaught.As long as Italy continues to
grow
> then he hasnt much to worry about. It doesnt look as yet that France will
be
> giving him any trouble.
Not soon enough.
> I dont think Russia will want Turkey to grow, once Austria falls then
Turkey
> will be squashed between IR.
This is what Andy thinks, I'm guessing. Eric can pick & choose between RI
and RT.
> I am also expecting RF to cooporate this fall move on MUN. I have a
feeling
> Russia will ask for MUN. He will no doubt approach you and offer help into
> Kiel, although he and France could go for that too. BEL pushes to HOL, HOL
> pushes to KIE supported by BAL in return for support into MUN. If they are
> coming after you next then they will have to make their move soon. MAO -
> IRI, MAR - SPA build in BRE. Build in STP. I think you, Austria and I will
> be BBQ.
I believe the American Thanksgiving holiday is dulling the press volume. I
have heard nothing firm from either one, though I have received some chatty
press from each. As I said - nothing firm, all anti-German.
> Thats the way I see things developing. It will be interesting to see what
> happens around Greece. The Turk may sell some story to Austria about
> supporting him to Serbia. At the same time he would support himself to
> Greece from BUL supported by AEG. I wouldnt be surprised to see an RT
> emerge. I think will be a crucial fall to see who the real allies are. The
> only main concern for Russia for a solo is to grab as much as he can in
the
> north/west, this means he has to grab less in the south. He will be
pushing
> you for eveything it is worth to stay allied. He will obviously push
France
> to set your mind at ease but I think he will offer France support into MUN
> and or KIE but take BER himself instead and push GAL - SIL. It will be an
> interesting fall. Once again I will pledge only not to attack DEN.
Feel free to tap it, if you think it will help. But I will count on no
supported attacks, even if the support comes from elsewhere. . .
> I am
> thinking hard what to do retake HOL or try and stop the Russian. If Russia
> grabs a build then I think we will see the RF vs E next year.
It's probably what I would do, if I were Russia. As France I'd be more
reluctant. . .
Ben
Message from Germany to England
> I believe the American Thanksgiving holiday is dulling the press volume.
I
> have heard nothing firm from either one, though I have received some
chatty
> press from each. As I said - nothing firm, all anti-German.
Well my good news is they are both speaking to me again and it definitely
isn't anti German.
Message from England to Germany
Tony
> Well my good news is they are both speaking to me again and it definitely
> isn't anti German.
I am pleased to hear it. Of course, what they write me isn't anti-English.
;-)
Ben
Message from Master to all
Players,
I'm extending the deadline by a week at a player's request.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Germany to France
I am not hearing much but here are my thoughts. If EFR do all attack me then
I personally prefer to let one of them get the most benefit. That would be
you. I am trying to work out how to let you keep holland and take mun.
I am expecting England to get KIE & DEN and for Russia to get BER. Soon all
3 of you will be head to head in Germany. I havent heared from you or Russia
since so I am guessing I have already been cut up ;-)
Message from Germany to England
>Of course, what they write me isn't anti-English.>
The gest of my press was that they were actually talking to me. France hasnt
since 1901, Russia didnt last year.
Anyway there is not much else to say, I have stated my case it's up to you.
All I can do is decide who to favour and who not to favour should I bow out.
Personally I believe in letting one become as strong as possible. That would
have to be France. So I would let him keep Holland and Take MUN. My mind
isnt made up yet.
Russia mentioned you and him discussed HEL - DEN supported by KIE and vice
versa and how to counteract it.
Also that he would support you to KIE allowing for you to take KIE & DEN.
Personally I think your best bet is keep DEN and go for Norway. It may be
your last chance.
As you were not really forthcoming on that point I can only conclude that
you dont believe me. My French option is the one I am leaning to right now.
I will sit out the game as an observer and be joined by you shortly
thereafter.
I get the feeling from discussions that FR feel they have made the most of
the bye gone years. I feel a stab is coming. I would have been wuite happy
to let you keep DEN whilst I retook Holland. If ERG are all ganged up
against me then it doesnt really matter. All I can do once again is ensure
that only one gets maximum profit out of a three way attack on me.
The sooner all three powers collide and get entangled the better. One of
them will then be appointed the next target.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
You may receive this twice; I had to send it from web mail as my office network mail is acting hinky:
I sneaked into the office today & am away from your last press to me. So it is not duplicated here, and I am responding to a couple of points I remember, but no doubt I am overlooking some.
Concerning Russia's proposal to support me into KIE, he mentioned that option last phase. I do not know what his intentions are as of this writing.
Concerning why I have not been as forthcoming about my *intentions* as I had been earlier, I am trying to become a better player by being alittle /less/ forthright concerning my larger scale plan. It seems a pretty straightforward practice for me to write this way to you - you present me a couple of tactical/diplomatic options involving me setting up against other players. They seem to make alot of sense. Then you give me some portion of your own moves: this phase, that you will not attack DEN. You could of course be lying, and I of course could reject your advice. That is diplomacy, and it is also for now a working relationship.
Now I choose one or the other - either to attack you again in some way, or to take your advice and push against Russia. If I tell you I will attack Russia, the information is to you, useless, because I would tell you that either way. But I can tell you, I believe Russia's position in this game is right now stronger than anyone else's, ahead of France's even, because of Russia's proximity to the stalemate line and reasonably secure borders.
I will say also, I am trying to get better by observing your press, and I will be interested later to see whether you and the observers thought I was getting better or worse as the game went on.
Certainly this is the most challenging board I have ever "sat" at, and I expect my play will change even during the game as a result. I hope it is for the better. . .
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Hi Ben,
> Concerning Russia's proposal to support me into KIE, he mentioned that
option last phase. I do not know what his intentions are as of this
writing.>
OK, I hear you. He mentioned to me that the move to KIE was discusssed for
this turn. At the moment his moves suggetions to me are hel - nth and attack
sil so that he can disband and rebuild in STP. A strange rewuest indeed.
> You could of course be lying, and I of course could reject your advice.
That is diplomacy, and it is also for now a working relationship.
I understand. But my game style always involves looking beyond the current
year and gains. Russia is very strong right now. He and Turkey are doing
fine down south. He has no worrys there. He doesnt really want to see a
strong France or England. There is not much he can do about France and that
is where I can annoy him or drive him to despair by giving Holland and MUN
to France. Once Austria is gone Russia will be on nine, this leaves him 12
down south or 9 in Germany and England to gain his last nine from.
His main concern right now must be that France gets Holland and MUN and you
take DEN and NWY. Thats the fear I have to play on. I have told him I wont
take DEN and that would allow you to take Norway too. I also told him I
would not attack Holland or defend MUN but actually support BUR into MUN by
moving MUN to TYR.
In return I have asked him not to attack Berlin. There is not much I can
offer him, only threats.
As for France, I have pushed him to keep Holland, take MUN and push MAR -
SPA and MAO - IRI and build a fleet in BRE. He ofcourse is very interested.
This brings me to England. What can I offer. All I can offer is not to
attack DEN but go for Holland instead and defend Berlin. You pick up two
builds and I go back to four. Something I can live with. If worst comes to
the worst I have all units support KIE in some way or the other. hel - den,
ruh - hol, mun and ber support kie and kie s ber. That way I am sure to be
left with one sc. I would then keep the fleet and wee what happens next year
depending on who did what this year. I have also told Russia that I may even
just have kie, mun support ber. He would have to rely on you and france to
cut support and at the same time risk you attacking him instead. Its a
tricky situation but I have to play on Frances greed, russia's worries and
your choice of options.
I dont believe that EFR getting one german sc to be in your advantage. That
still leaves you between two stronger nations once I am gone. They know you
would have to attack one of them to get ahead once I am gone.Even if you
take DEN & KIE and France gets HOL & MUN and Russia gets BER then you are
still stuck in the middle with nowhere to go.
My best bet is an allyship for you because I believe it offers something to
both. Your easiest growth lies in the north. Yopu and France can always
finsih me later. You need to break out somewhere. I cant say much more on
the issue but I suggest the following moves. den - bal (bounce). I cut sil
and move ruh - mun supported by kie. This way I get to keep ber, kie,mun.
You get den, nwy. It also means that you can break out north. With Italy
getting a build I dont see France moving after Italy once I am gone. He
would surely team up with Russia and come after you.
> Certainly this is the most challenging board I have ever "sat" at, and I
expect my play will change even during the game as a result. I hope it is
for the better. . ..
Well this game I have failed dramatically. Letting France into MUN for no
reason whatsoever was a disaster. I should have offered him the sealion in
s1901. I have made very poor moves. LORAX which you are gm-ing on the other
hand has been very draining to say the least. Tremendous diplomacy needed
and tactical moves. As you know I went from elimination to leading the board
for now. A challenging game to say the least. This one has been forced since
f1901. Bad diplomacy and moves on my part. I havent given it the attention
it needed. I hope to make up for that from this year on but it may be to
late.
All I say is look at the board, where do you go after I am gone and ERF get
their share of me?
You have no choice but to attack F or R. Russia is the best bet even then
but surely you know that the chances of RF joining up once I am gone is
greater than EF or ER joining up. At the moment my money is on Russia to
solo. As any scenario suggests that Russia is eventually your best target I
say take my friendship now. Keep DEN (I would rather regain Holland and an
ally that retake DEN and leave Holland in French hands) and push for Norway
now whilst you can. It will be your last chance this game. I will broadcast
an EFR just for fun but dont take it to seriously ;-)
Message from Germany to England, France, and Russia
OK guys this is how I stand following talks, suggestions and requests
following talks with all three of you.
My most likely moves are thus;
f hel - nth (cutting support for attack on Nwy)
a kie - den (cutting support for attack on swe)
a mun - tyr
a ruh s French army bur - mun
a ber - kie (if everyone is attacking me then I would like in on the action,
kiel will never suspect an attack from berlin)
The above scenario allows Russia to selfbounce in Sweden or attack and take
Berlin or SUpport ENgland into KIE.
It allows France to keep Holland and take MUN with my support or allows
Russia or France to support the other into MUN. England gets to keep Denmark
and I get to attack surprise attack myself.
Any request for alternative moves are welcome.
Message from Germany to Germany
I can only try and get England to see that no matter what happens he will be
next. It's my best chance of surviavl.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Once again you write a note I could take two days to ponder. . .
Let me start at the end & write more another time:
> Keep DEN (I would rather regain Holland and an
> ally that retake DEN and leave Holland in French hands) and push for
Norway
> now whilst you can. It will be your last chance this game. I will
broadcast
> an EFR just for fun but dont take it to seriously ;-)
Let me say, a quick elimination of *you* is as bad for *me*, as a quick
elimination of *me* is bad for *you*. Reading between the lines of your
press I think this is correct.
If you issue the orders you described in the group press & I decided to
attack NWY, as you recommended, it would be the end of me & the end of you.
I am telling you, I am considering your recommendation. If you screw me in
favor of Russia it will be your own undoing, I think. So when you say,
don't take your group press orders too seriously, what you mean is, you
will not actually be entering those orders, because they are anti-English,
and by leading to the end of England, they simplify the board and firm up
the FR, which is bad for you.
Do I understand you correctly? Will you indeed cut those supports as
indicated, making it impossible for me to work as the enemy of your
enemies?
Ben
Message from Germany to England
First of all let me apologise for the spelling, its not because I am dutch
but because I never go back and check what I write or how I spell it.
>So when you say, don't take your group press orders too seriously, what
you mean is, you
will not actually be entering those orders>
Correct
>because they are anti-English, and by leading to the end of England, they
simplify the board and firm up
the FR, which is bad for you.>
The FR is already on and thats bad for both of us.
> indicated, making it impossible for me to work as the enemy of your
enemies?>
I hope you are just that. I hope you see once I am gone then that leaves you
in the middle. Now you can escape into scandinavia. Your good fortune is my
good fortune right now. I will lose one SC anyway. I would rather lose DEN
to you than Holland and MUN to France and Berlin to Russia.
You are the only one who can not only save me but also yourself. That's my
good fortune. I really do believe this will be the last year you will be
able to attack Scandinavia. I dont for a minute believe France/Russia would
allow you to take two builds. I would, I wouldn't be concerned about you
keeping Denmark and taking Norway.
If you do decide to work with me then I ask that you bounce Russia in BAL.
He will use that to support SIL - BER.
He wont move it anywhere else so it is a safe bounce and stops him from
building.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I sneaked into the office today & am away from your last press to me. So it
is not duplicated here, and I am responding to a couple of points I
remember, but no doubt I am overlooking some.
Concerning Russia's proposal to support me into KIE, he mentioned that
option last phase. I do not know what his intentions are as of this
writing.
Concerning why I have not been as forthcoming about my *intentions* as I had
been earlier, I am trying to become a better player by being alittle /less/
forthright concerning my larger scale plan. It seems a pretty
straightforward practice for me to write this way to you - you present me a
couple of tactical/diplomatic options involving me setting up against other
players. They seem to make alot of sense. Then you give me some portion of
your own moves: this phase, that you will not attack DEN. You could of
course be lying, and I of course could reject your advice. That is
diplomacy, and it is also for now a working relationship.
Now I choose one or the other - either to attack you again in some way, or
to take your advice and push against Russia. If I tell you I will attack
Russia, the information is to you, useless, because I would tell you that
either way. But I can tell you, I believe Russia's position in this game is
right now stronger than anyone else's, ahead of France's even, because of
Russia's proximity to the stalemate line and reasonably secure borders.
I will say also, I am trying to get better by observing your press, and I
will be interested later to see whether you and the observers thought I was
getting better or worse as the game went on.
Certainly this is the most challenging board I have ever "sat" at, and I
expect my play will change even during the game as a result. I hope it is
for the better. . .
Ben
Message from France to all
Folks --
Sorry if I haven't been responding to press, but I was away for
Thanksgiving. My girlfriend's parents don't have dial-up, much less
broadband, so I was kind of in the stone ages for a few days there. I will
get back to you all later today.
Erik
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
I got a kick out of that last message! I don't know if Ben believes it (and
I assume that was primarily for his benefit) but he still is asking for the
support we've talked about, so Hel-Den should still work, whether he thinks
you are telling the truth or lying.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
;-) there wasnt much else I could think of.
I will cut the NTH as discussed and move kie - den, so the broadcast wasnt that far off.
Message from Germany to England
Russia insists that you are still asking for the support of DEN - KIE.
All I am asking is that you cut support from BAL. Russia says he will be supporting KIE - DEN.
Something I doubt very much. We shall see. As stated my moves are not aimed at Denmark. But dont expect Russian support to kiel. I still believe it will be FR against you after I am gone.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Russia insists that you are still asking for the support of DEN - KIE.
> All I am asking is that you cut support from BAL. Russia says
> he will be supporting KIE - DEN.
> Something I doubt very much. We shall see. As stated my moves
> are not aimed at Denmark. But dont expect Russian support to
> kiel. I still believe it will be FR against you after I am gone.
Yeah, I finally heard from him again too. No doubt you are right about the
FR.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Ben, lie if you have to but say you will be cutting support from BAL.
I need something if only a lie to base my decions on.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Ben, lie if you have to but say you will be cutting support from BAL.
> I need something if only a lie to base my decions on.
Um, ok, I'll be cutting support from BAL, but I'm not sure what I'll be
doing with any of my *other* units. No rush, my friend, the deadline is
still a week away. . .
Ben
Message from Russia to Germany
> ;-) there wasnt much else I could think of.
> I will cut the NTH as discussed and move kie - den, so the broadcast
> wasnt that far off.
Sounds good. Do note that originally we talked about Hel-Den, so this
represents a change to what we had originally discussed. I'm not complaining
-- Kie-Den works as well as Hel-Den, and probably gives you a better
defensive position overall -- but I hope you were planning to mention this
change to me so I could deliver on the support!
I'll change my order to support Kie-Den.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
Well we hadnt really finalised any moves, we still have a week left. I am
still fishing for Englands and Frances moves.
Pushing the fleet to NTH does cut eventual support for DEN should Ben not
trust either of us.
How are you and France getting allong. If a three way press is there then by
all means get it going. I will finalise my moves a day or two before the
deadline. France hasnt said much and Ben is not going into details.
He is playing the trust me and see you have no other options routine. But as
stated there is still a good 6 days left.
We could also look at me supporting you to DEN. A blue unit or Grey unit
doesnt make that much difference to me.
Any puppet roll would do right now, that is why I am fishing with EFR. If
you know what France is up to with Holland then you know whether he will cut
support from KIE or not. I could have KIE support you in and cut NTH. You
cover SWE from NWY just in case. But there again me cutting NTH and DEN
helps you quite a bit too. I dont believe you will be helping Ben into Kiel.
If he gets two builds where is he to go??
He can only move against you or France once I am gone. He is stuck in the
middle. You do not benefit from him growing. I benefit from surviving for as
long as possible. You also dont want France getting out of control If he
wraps England up the you are also a target. Just some thoughts for now. I
have offered myself as a puppet to all 3 of you. But who do I trust ;-)
????????
Message from Germany to France
How are things going? If Russia sides with England and helps him into KIE
whilst England follows up to DNE then England gets two builds. How is the
relationship with ER right now? are you trying to get FR working against
ENgalnd with my help?
Message from Germany to Germany
It's a shame France is not saying much. I am not putting any effort into the
eastern negotiations with AIT.
I cannot influence that area just yet. Austria and Italy are to busy
fighting to come to my aid and I have nothing to offer them as they are not
working together.
Italy will be to worried about Greece to put any pressure on France. I am
still expecting the RT to take off.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
I am absolutely considering DEN - BAL, as you've requested, but I wonder what you think of DEN - SWE.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Two thoughts;
1 - If DEN is somehow to get dislodged then I am sure you would want to
retreat to Sweden
2 - If Norway is to fall then Russia surely knows that that the Norwegian
army cannot do anything else other than move to Sweden.
If I were him and in doubt as to your motives I would push Norway to Sweden
and go for Berlin with BAL and SIL.
If he in his wildest dreams believes that EG are working together then
NWY-SWE is a must. So you would only bounce.
He wouldnt want you taking Norway and pushing Denmark to Sweden with me
regaining Denmark.
I see no other move than Norway to Sweden (If Russia doesnt trust you).
Message from Russia to Germany
[Whoops! I wrote most of this message yesterday, but it's still sitting
unsent in my "outbox".]
I wasn't complaining about the "change". And I realize that we had not
committed to anything, because I was still trying to find out what England
was looking to do as well. I just wanted to make sure that you realized it
was a change.
I had not considered the idea of me taking Den. Looking at it I don't see how
it would make sense. We need two fleets between us, and if I took Den, you'd
be disbanding at least one unit. The advantage of me being in Den is that it
puts two units on Nth, but do you really thinkn you could afford to lose that
many units? In either case I agree that Ben has a chance of supporting
himself in Den if he's worried about us, so Hel-Nth is probably good whatever
else we decide.
I understand the idea that surviving as a puppet is better than not, but at
this point I think it's premature for you to talk about being a puppet -- at
least not being *my* puppet. If we are working together, we'd be about equal
strenth in the north. Granted I'm (currently) bigger overall, but it seems
far too early for you to really be a puppet. As to who you should trust,
obviously I'm not an unbiased observer here. I will say that I was serious
last season about trying to take Ska (whether you took it or I did). Without
that confirmation, and without another northern unit (and again, I admit that
was a mistake on my part), I didn't think I could afford to move against
England.
Obviously I'm interested in having an advantageous position, but I don't
believe in deals that are "too good" for me, and we'd need to work together
for either of us to do well in the north. If you want to support me to Den we
can talk about it, but we should only do that if it makes real sense to get
you in a good position. But if I focus on building in the North and pull back
from Sil while you take Den, that would allow us to work together well as
allies -- not with you as a puppet.
As to Erik, I haven't heard anything from him for several days. Surprisingly,
he had not asked me for support to Mun (though it's still early in the
season, so who knows what may come later) so he may be serious about turning
on Ben and working with you.
Short version is that I tend to think I should support you to Den, but won't
complain if you decide that me taking it makes more sense. If you take it
we've got some logistics about how to get my fleet back to Swe afterwards,
but we can probably work out those details after the moves. If Erik really
does move to Iri, then the EF problems will give you new life and make me
pressing against England more realistic. But again, for that to work, you
need to be strong enough to be a real threat to France.
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Russia
>I had not considered the idea of me taking Den. Looking at it I don't see how
it would make sense.>
It only makes sense for me. Lets be honest, either you, england or france is lying to me. In the worst case all three of you are lying. I am basically selling my soul to whoever wants it. Thats why I stated that it doesnt matter to me if DEN is english or Russian. I would ofcourse prefer it to be german.
> We need two fleets between us, and if I took Den, you'd be disbanding at least one unit. The advantage of me being in Den is that it puts two units on Nth, but do you really thinkn you could afford to lose that
many units?>
I dont want to lose any, I am offering anything to anyone to stay alive. I am sure one of the three will take up the offer.
> In either case I agree that Ben has a chance of supporting himself in Den if he's worried about us, so Hel-Nth is probably good whatever else we decide.>
Agreed, it cuts support for HOL and DEN.
> I understand the idea that surviving as a puppet is better than not, but at this point I think it's premature for you to talk about being a puppet>
I have never used the ploy before as it has never been needed so please excuse my ignorance in this matter ;-)
> -- at least not being *my* puppet. If we are working together, we'd be about equal
strenth in the north. Granted I'm (currently) bigger overall, but it seems
far too early for you to really be a puppet. As to who you should trust,
obviously I'm not an unbiased observer here. I will say that I was serious
last season about trying to take Ska (whether you took it or I did). Without
that confirmation, and without another northern unit (and again, I admit that
was a mistake on my part), I didn't think I could afford to move against
England.>
We live and learn.
>Obviously I'm interested in having an advantageous position, but I don't
believe in deals that are "too good" for me, and we'd need to work together
for either of us to do well in the north. If you want to support me to Den we
can talk about it, but we should only do that if it makes real sense to get
you in a good position. But if I focus on building in the North and pull back
from Sil while you take Den, that would allow us to work together well as
allies -- not with you as a puppet.>
This for obvious reasons has my preference.
> As to Erik, I haven't heard anything from him for several days. Surprisingly,
he had not asked me for support to Mun (though it's still early in the
season, so who knows what may come later) so he may be serious about turning
on Ben and working with you.>
I hope so.
> Short version is that I tend to think I should support you to Den, but won't
complain if you decide that me taking it makes more sense. If you take it
we've got some logistics about how to get my fleet back to Swe afterwards,
but we can probably work out those details after the moves. If Erik really
does move to Iri, then the EF problems will give you new life and make me
pressing against England more realistic. But again, for that to work, you
need to be strong enough to be a real threat to France.>
Agreed, but I am sure you dont want england getting two builds, so I am sure you will not be helping him into Kiel. This makes it more clear that I should keep Denmark so that we can both take on England. A joint GR would also convince France to join in. That is why I am hoping either you or France will get a 3 way press going.
tony
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Two thoughts;
> 1 - If DEN is somehow to get dislodged then I am sure you
> would want to
> retreat to Sweden
>
> 2 - If Norway is to fall then Russia surely knows that that
> the Norwegian army cannot do anything else other than move to Sweden.
You make a strong case. Forget I asked.
Ben
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
My silence is only indicative of a severe workload and a really nasty flu.
I am back online now and feeling much better.
Your "carve me up" broadcast was amusing. While I appreciate your
generosity in your firesale, I'm not looking to see you gone, not with
Russia looking as strong as he is. Did anything come of my suggestion that
you and he negotiate his assistance in expelling Ben from Denmark.
I am willing to move to Iri, but only if I'm sure England won't be gaining
a build. Otherwise, I'm better off keeping Mao around to guard against
Italy.
Erik
Message from Germany to France
Hello Erik, good to hear from. Yes, Russia has tsated that he will support
me into Denmark.
I am having a little bit of trouble believing him, especially as I mentioned
your concern to him.
On the other hand I find it hard to believe that he will help ENgland to two
builds. England states that RUssia is supporting DEN - KIE to allow SKA to
enter DEN thus gaining two builds for England.
I would have thought that you and Russia would be communicating. I have
asked Russia to start up a 3 way conversation, maybe you should otherwise.
I may just have to go for the carve me up option ;-)
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Any last minute thoughts?
Ben
Message from France to Germany
Tony:
>
> Hello Erik, good to hear from. Yes, Russia has tsated that he will
> support
> me into Denmark.
>
> I am having a little bit of trouble believing him, especially as I
> mentioned
> your concern to him.
My concern?
In any case, I think he may be telling the truth about Den -- he doesn't
want to see any more English growth, as you've pointed out. If he does
proceed with supporting you back into Den, I will make a grab for Iri and
you'll have another shot at getting back on your feet.
Erik
Message from Germany to England
None whatsoever Ben, I am flying blind on this one. I have no idea who or what to believe. I have no coordinated moves with anyone.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> None whatsoever Ben, I am flying blind on this one. I have no
> idea who or what to believe. I have no coordinated moves with anyone.
Ok, this is fine, because as I understand your recommendations to me, I
don't really need your help for anything, except that you don't cut my
supports. If you do, well, we are both in trouble.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Well Ben that does leave me with a problem, one I would obviously share.
That is if I dont cut the support from NTH then NTH could for example be
used to help France keep Holland.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Well Ben that does leave me with a problem, one I would
> obviously share.
> That is if I dont cut the support from NTH then NTH could for
> example be used to help France keep Holland.
Oh. I misunderstood you before.
Ok, as I understand it, all prior discussions are off the table. NTH will
have to be occupied, of course; you will cut that support if you must,
though I think you will regret it when you see the results.
Ben
Message from Russia to Germany
Tony,
Sorry for the long delay, but I was offline for the weekend and didn't hear
from France until last night. From what I'm hearing, Erik sounds like he's
willing to go along with everything you and I have discussed. In fact, he's
enthusiastic enough that he specifically asked that I support you Hel-Den for
what I think are obvious and selfish reasons (he wants to make sure that Hel
is not available to attack Hol). I'm not as worried about making sure he
keeps Hol :), so I'm still happy to support either Kie-Den.
I haven't sent a three way FGR message just because I've been trying to touch
base with everyone. If you want to kick off a three way message between us,
I'm fine with that.
And when I looked over your messages I noticed several references to concern
about me supporting Den-Kie. Trust me, I am not interested in seeing Ben get
a secure footing with all of those units he has threatening Scandinavia!
--- Eric
Message from Germany to Germany
Well no commitement of anybody so far. I have no idea if any seed of doubt
has been sown amongst EFR.
I find that Russia hasn't really offered to support me to Denmark, unless I
missed a press somewhere. He has been to vague. I will just have to play the
moves as though all three were hostile. The fact that RF haven't started a 3
way press must mean something.
Message from Germany to England
>>Ok, as I understand it, all prior discussions are off the table>>
I wish there were discussions on the table. The only commitment I have in
word is that of Russia, for wha't it's worth.
I have asked that you cut BAL. I have asked that you dont help France. I
have asked that you attack Norway.
You havent commited to any suggestion just left me in the dark. At the
moment my moves I hope reflect the best possible defence taking into account
that all three of you will be hostile.
Message from Germany to France and Russia
So what is happening guys. It's a little late to start a 3 way press but
here goes.
I am quite happy to lose Holland to France. I am hoping Erik sends a signle
for France to look at MAO - IRI.
I am ordering kie - den supported by hel. If bal supports this effort then I
hope it succeeds.
I am assuming that this means nwy - swe to prevent any retreat to sweden. If
ER are against me then all I can hope for would be Holland. I think it is
worth the risk. If England grows with two units then he has to eventually
attack france or russia.
let me know and I will send in orders, I would prefer to hear from both.
Message from Germany to Germany
Well a last minute press from Russia may make me change my mind. The moves I
had ordered were hel - hol supported by kie and ruh - bel to cut support. I
am now considering kie - den supported by hel.
I still think that i will be screwed by RF and maybe even E. Ben hasnt
commited to any move and has just left me with a trust me message. Thats a
shame. I would rather be attacking holland and defending berlin. I will give
it one more shot. Maybe time for a miscommunication, it may just work ;-)
Message from Germany to England
Ben, this is how I would like to see the move come about but I doubt they
will.
I cant live on "trust me, I am the ruler of england messages".
You take norway and keep denmark and build two. Denmark does cut
support from BAL and I cut support from SIL. This to keep Berlin mine. At
the same time I try to
retake Holland.
Message from Germany to England
We still have ten hours left, I dont think you have to worry about me
informing Russia of any moves.
broadcast to g
Well as you guys can see I am still trying to get Ben onto my side. I would
much rather be saving Berlin and retaking Holland than praying for help from
France or Russia. I believe EG is the only way forward for both of us.
They have both indicated as I have pointed out that Ben has nowhere to go if
he takes two builds but to attack one of them pretty soon.
I was hoping to use this to get Ben onboard but he has to see it himself. I
dont believe France or Russia when they say Ben is pushing to be helped into
Kiel it just doesnt make sense. I dont think Russia would ever do that. It's
just a shame that Ben wont commit to anything and asks me to trust him.
The last minute press from Russia hasn't convinced me but my moves are not
made up. I still have a few hours left.
The moves I have ordered with wait status are ruh - hol supported by hel and
kie, mun support ber.
I still think that i will be screwed by RF and so will Ben.
Ben hasnt commited to any move and has just left me with a trust me message.
Thats a
shame. I would rather be attacking holland and defending berlin with some
help. I will give
it one more shot as you can see from my last press to Ben.
Message from Germany to Germany
LOL, well my miscommunication went badly wrong. I ended up receving a get
package from the judge.
I think my renewed message to Ben was a little obvious regarding the so
called error.
I didnt have anything to say to him, I must practice the error message more
intensely.
There is not much else I can do now, I will wait and see if FR respond to
the press. But unless Ben comes up with some kind of commitment I will have
to either trust Russia or just consider all powers hostile and guess the
best I can.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Ben, this is how I would like to see the move come about but
> I doubt they will.
> I cant live on "trust me, I am the ruler of england messages".
Sorry. I was reluctant to give you my specific moves. But based on your
move to SIL, taking care of my last reservation, here they are.
> You take norway and keep denmark and build two. Denmark does cut
> support from BAL and I cut support from SIL. This to keep
> Berlin mine. At the same time I try to retake Holland.
I intended all along to take Norway. I had been reluctant to order DEN -
BAL because of the possibility of BAL - BER, though if you will be cutting
SIL then I will not worry about it anymore.
Done.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
I had a last minute message from Russia stating that he would be supporting
me to Denmark with BAL. So this means that if he isn't lying then DEN - BAL
is safe. As you also pointed out with me cutting support from SIL then BAL -
BER supported by SIL also wont work. That's why I need BAL cut to ensure
SIL - BER supported by BAL doeesnt work either. Giving up Denmark but
gaining an ally is worth the price.
I myself and expecting him to support himself to Berlin. Probably using SIL
supported by BAL. I will definitely be cutting SIL support and going for
Holland. My definite orders are now in, wait status removed. Good luck to us
both.
Message from Germany to Germany
Well the error press may or may not have helped, Bens words sounded genuine.
I will trust my gut on this one. Who knows, Russia may be telling the truth.
I could misuse it and attack DEN anyway. This means that I would regain
Denamrk if Russia was telling the truth. The problem with this is that I
would lose England as an ally (if I gain him).
I cant attack DEN, protect SIL and retake HOL all at once. I will trust Ben
on this one.
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
> Good luck to us both.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Here we go.
Ben
Message from Germany to England
Batter down, lock and load. I am going in.
Message from France to Germany and Russia
Okay, Tony, I think we're on board for your plan. I will head for Iri and
Russia should be supporting you into Den. I'll keep Holland for now but
won't think anything ill of you if you reclaim it later.
Erik
Message from Germany to France and Russia
Good to hear. I will order hel - nth and kie - den as mentioned and spoken
of with russia.
I lose HOL or DEN or maybe both. At least this way I only lose one and gain
allies.
I just hope the pair of you leave MUN alone.
I will have ber and mun and ruh support each other. Other than that there is
not much I can do.
I did say kie - den supported by hel and hopefully bal but if RFG is
happening then hel - nth would be better for russia.
I will submit the change of orders with this press. Good luck to us all and
death to my nemisis.
Message from Germany to Germany
Well, what do you make of that. If there is anyone there then you guys have
the big picture.
I believe FR will stick it to me and engalnd this round. I have placed my
bet and its on BEn coming through.
I am sure FR have made a deal over MUN and or BER. If all goes according to
plan I should have kie, ber, mun ,hol.
I think my fake error message to Ben may have swung it. I am lost without
BEN anyway as EFR can easily finish me off. I havent played well this game
so I deserve a kick in my complacency. As long as DEN or BAL dont go for KIE
I may be ok for another few rounds. Sorry about grammar and spelling but
english isnt my strongest language. Its also close to bed time and I have 14
games to check and one to gm ;-)
I wouldnt be surprised to see GAL push for BOH. Russia may believe he will
get a build and decide to put the pressure on me even further. Let it be
noted that Russia's offer was never taken seriously. Why help me when he
doesnt have to. He can just have me believe he will help me. He would be
better off getting France to attack MUN and England to attack Denmark and
grabbing Berlin for himself. Thats what I would have done.
I also still believe Turkey will go for GRE and that the juggernaut will
evolve.
Message from Germany to Germany
>>He would be
better off getting France to attack MUN and England to attack Denmark and
grabbing Berlin for himself. Thats what I would have done.>>
Should have read, England to attack KIE.
Austria: Fleet Adriatic Sea → Trieste
Austria: Army Budapest SUPPORT Turkish Army Bulgaria → Serbia
Austria: Army Vienna SUPPORT Fleet Adriatic Sea → Trieste
England: Fleet Denmark → Kiel
England: Fleet North Sea SUPPORT Fleet Skagerrak → Denmark
England: Fleet Skagerrak → Denmark
France: Army Belgium SUPPORT Army Holland (*cut*)
France: Army Burgundy SUPPORT Army Belgium
France: Army Holland SUPPORT Army Belgium (*cut*)
France: Fleet Marseilles → Spain (south coast)
France: Fleet Mid-Atlantic Ocean → Irish Sea
France: Army Paris → Gascony
Germany: Army Berlin → Silesia (*bounce*)
Germany: Fleet Helgoland Bight → Holland (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Kiel SUPPORT Fleet Helgoland Bight → Holland (*cut, destroyed*)
Germany: Army Munich → Silesia (*bounce*)
Germany: Army Ruhr → Belgium (*bounce*)
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Rome → Venice
Italy: Army Serbia SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Greece (*cut, dislodged*)
Italy: Fleet Tunis → Ionian Sea (*bounce*)
Italy: Army Venice → Tyrolia
Russia: Fleet Baltic Sea SUPPORT English Fleet Denmark → Kiel
Russia: Army Galicia → Bohemia
Russia: Army Norway → Sweden
Russia: Fleet Rumania HOLD
Russia: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Fleet Rumania
Russia: Army Silesia → Berlin (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Ukraine → Galicia
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea → Greece (*bounce*)
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Bulgaria → Serbia
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
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