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Message from France to England
I set draw, I assume you did, and I assume Andy did. Eric appears to want
to try to whittle; the move off the German line and allowing me to take
Munich are indicative of this.
Looking at board, it is possible for you to safely eliminate Andy now; F
Bal - Ber with support from a Russian army does that. Note that Kiel and
Ruhr must now support Munich indefinitely. If Bal - Ber succeeds, you'd
also need Den - Bal, Nth - Den to ensure support of Ber next round.
After that, Ber is held in place by Bel; Mun is held in place by Kiel and
Ruhr. Looks stalemated.
The choice, though, is yours. I didn't think Munich would succeed; I did it
somewhat on a lark. I'm all settled in in the South.
Erik
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
I take that as a sign that you'd like us to eliminate Andy. FYI, I've gone
about as far as I can go; I do see the potential for a clean elimination
in Berlin, but it would require you to support Ben in, and that's a
discussion between the two of you.
Erik
Message from Russia to France
It's really not my call whether Andy is eliminated or not. Eliminating Andy
doesn't really help me, since I lost the solo once Andy decided to believe
Ben. I'm really just curious to see if Ben will really keep him around when
he doesn't need to. If this were a FtF game, I'd probably have set draw by
now.
I'll back off a bit more from Ben -- I don't expect him to take my support
regardless. With me out of Sil, no trust is involved. I'm not really
negotiating with him at the moment, because the moves are more important.
I'm putting in orders pretty quickly these days without wait. Once it's clear
(one way or the other) what Ben's real plan is, I'll set draw, be it for a 3
way or a 4 way.
--- Eric
Message from Observer to Observer
Erik wrote (to Ben):
*****
I set draw, I assume you did, and I assume Andy did. Eric appears to want
to try to whittle; the move off the German line and allowing me to take
Munich are indicative of this.
*****
Greg, out of interest, did Erik set draw? His moves went in too late to be
picked up by your clever automatic moves and draw reporter.
Just curious really - if he didn't, I can't think of a reason why he would
then lie about it in this message.
For what it's worth, I'd be surprised if Ben does eliminate Andy, but then
he is full of surprises ...
Alastair
Message from England to France
Erik -
> I set draw, I assume you did, and I assume Andy did. Eric appears to want
> to try to whittle; the move off the German line and allowing me to take
> Munich are indicative of this.
Yes, I'm sure they are.
> Looking at board, it is possible for you to safely eliminate Andy now; F
> Bal - Ber with support from a Russian army does that. Note that Kiel and
> Ruhr must now support Munich indefinitely. If Bal - Ber succeeds, you'd
> also need Den - Bal, Nth - Den to ensure support of Ber next round.
I suspect Eric would back off even further, if I asked him.
> After that, Ber is held in place by Bel; Mun is held in place by Kiel and
> Ruhr. Looks stalemated.
You are correct, tactically speaking. Nevertheless, I am not inclined to
eliminate Andy just for the sake of eliminating a fourth power.
> The choice, though, is yours. I didn't think Munich would succeed; I did
it
> somewhat on a lark. I'm all settled in in the South.
Yes, I see. I guess if I'd given it much thought I would have anticipated
you succeeding to MUN, after all, you keep going there, and Eric was
telling me he'd be backing off.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> in all seriousness....be careful on your drive home....when it happens...I
> think its about 7 minutes away.
My house? More than that. Probably 15, without traffic, which it is, on
the drive home.
These are things I've done on my way home, no doubt related to exhaustion:
1. Make a determined effort to get in my car with the key via the rear
driver side passenger door, which naturally does not have a keyhole.
2. Making a quick pitstop to return a rental video, stopped the car,
leaving the engine running, putting on the emergency brake, and hopping out
with video in hand, only to realize I'd left the car in drive.
I try to be careful. Wise words.
Ben
Message from France to England
> You are correct, tactically speaking. Nevertheless, I am not inclined
> to
> eliminate Andy just for the sake of eliminating a fourth power.
As I said, it's your choice, at this point. I'm not going to haggle over a
draw-whittling; we'll leave it to the commentators to debate the merits of
a 3WD vs a 4WD. There is a small part of me that would like to kill him
off purely for historical vengence, but I suppose I can supress that
instinct ;).
I've submitted orders and set draw. Mun isn't doing anything; if you'd like
me to support you into Ber or support Andy in Ber, let me know.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> There is a small part of me that would like to kill him
> off purely for historical vengence, but I suppose I can supress that
> instinct ;).
Heh. You know, I put off discussing this with you as long as I could, because you sometimes wear this instinct on your sleeve. ;-)
> I've submitted orders and set draw. Mun isn't doing anything; if you'd like
> me to support you into Ber or support Andy in Ber, let me know.
It can sit tight. No support of anything is necessary; I suppose the gesture of a support of BER might help us wrap up faster.
The commentators are probably beating me up pretty well, as I recall, this debate is pretty one-sided. Contrary to *play*, even in quite competitive games, with skilled players, the debate is one sided. I have played in and observed games in which the smaller power could easily have been eliminated but was not. I would not say it should always be done, but in a game by game decision, the players sort it out for themselves.
I will face the music when the time comes. :-)
Ben
Message from Observer to Observer
Ben wrote:
*****
The commentators are probably beating me up pretty well, as I recall, this
debate is pretty one-sided. Contrary to *play*, even in quite competitive
games, with skilled players, the debate is one sided. I have played in and
observed games in which the smaller power could easily have been eliminated
but was not. I would not say it should always be done, but in a game by
game decision, the players sort it out for themselves.
I will face the music when the time comes. :-)
*****
Can't really call this level of debate a 'beating-up' ;)
Having come across Ben's attitude on these things previously, I'm just
interested to know what reasons he has for leaving Andy in the draw in this
particular game. Ben's philosophy on this issue appears to be considering
the situation on a game by game basis - which is fine by me - so I'm keen to
know which criteria he feels Andy has met during this game that mean that
Ben feels he merits inclusion in the draw.
I suspect it will be level of enjoyable press etc (which Ben alluded to
earlier in a press to self referring to the strategy he pursued in the
teachme3 game) but it will be good to hear it 'from the horse's mouth'.
Maybe sometime in November 2005 Ben will have got through the archive to
read this message and I might get an answer then, if he hasn't lost the will
to live...
Alastair
Message from Observer to Observer
Alastair Tomlinson wrote:
> Erik wrote (to Ben):
>
> *****
> I set draw, I assume you did, and I assume Andy did. Eric appears to want
> to try to whittle; the move off the German line and allowing me to take
> Munich are indicative of this.
> *****
>
> Greg, out of interest, did Erik set draw? His moves went in too late to be
> picked up by your clever automatic moves and draw reporter.
Yes.
Greg
England: Fleet Baltic Sea SUPPORT Italian Army Berlin
England: Fleet Barents Sea SUPPORT Army St Petersburg
England: Fleet Denmark SUPPORT Army Kiel
England: Fleet Gulf of Bothnia SUPPORT Army St Petersburg
England: Army Kiel SUPPORT Italian Army Berlin
England: Fleet North Atlantic Ocean HOLD
England: Fleet North Sea CONVOY Army Norway → Edinburgh
England: Army Norway → North Sea → Edinburgh
England: Army Ruhr SUPPORT French Army Munich
England: Army St Petersburg HOLD
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon SUPPORT Fleet Marseilles
France: Fleet Marseilles SUPPORT Fleet Gulf of Lyon (*cut*)
France: Army Munich HOLD
France: Army North Africa SUPPORT Fleet Tunis
France: Fleet Tunis SUPPORT Fleet Western Mediterranean
France: Fleet Western Mediterranean SUPPORT Fleet Gulf of Lyon
Italy: Army Berlin SUPPORT French Army Munich
Russia: Fleet Aegean Sea → Ionian Sea
Russia: Army Apulia → Venice (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Bohemia → Vienna
Russia: Army Galicia SUPPORT Army Warsaw
Russia: Fleet Ionian Sea → Tyrrhenian Sea
Russia: Army Moscow HOLD
Russia: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Tyrrhenian Sea
Russia: Army Piedmont → Marseilles (*bounce*)
Russia: Fleet Rome SUPPORT Fleet Ionian Sea → Tyrrhenian Sea
Russia: Army Sevastopol SUPPORT Army Moscow
Russia: Army Silesia → Bohemia
Russia: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Army Venice → Piedmont
Russia: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Army Silesia → Bohemia
Russia: Army Ukraine SUPPORT Army Warsaw
Russia: Army Venice → Piedmont (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Warsaw HOLD
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