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Message from England to England
One other thing I wanted to get down in the journal.
I went on one phase too many discussing my moves with Andy. I should not
have discussed with him that I had drafted plans to move to the far corner
of the map. Not helpful to him, and therefore counterproductive for me.
Could be he tipped off Eric, though I doubt it mattered even if he did.
Ben
Message from England to France
Erik -
We'll be ok.
I would like to set up the line. I'll be a lot happier when that's done.
Sorry for being harsh before.
Ben
Message from Russia to Turkey
> I'm more than happy to worry about him, so we don't lose to EF, is you
> can give me some space.
Jason,
Ugh. I got busy and ended up sending absolutely no press in this game for 2
days before the move. When I read this message a few hours before the
deadline, I wasn't clear whether you were turning away, or offering to if
we talked more. Given that Andy offered the support to Bul, and we didn't
have a specific agreement, I took his help. I don't know where that leaves
us, but let me know what you'd like to do.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
Sorry again for the horrendous communication last season. The week got
suddenly very busy in meetings and after-work commitments. Still, I'm glad
we had the time earlier in the week to discuss the moves in such detail.
Obviously I should have gone ahead and covered Sev, because then Arm would
be perfectly safe. Not sure what your thinking is, but I was thinking Arm S
Bul-Bla, Ser-Bul (Gre/Rum support). There's a decent chance of grabbing Bla
with those moves.
I'm more worried about the north, where Ben is set up to convoy into Lvn or
Pru. Perhaps I should have taken your advice and walked into Ber, though
I'm not sure I could hold it if I did. As you say, I definitely need more
armies there.
I'm around a bit this weekend. I suspect Monday is going to be as hellish
as the last couple of days, so hopefully I won't annoy you too much with my
sporadic availability.
--- Eric
Message from Turkey to Russia
Well, I don't blame you for taking the support, but it looks like Andy
is clearly trying to throw the game to follow through on his threat.
Before Spring, I tried to send you a message telling yo uwhy you should
let me take out Andy, but unfortunately I choked on my own logic! :-)
Right now, though, England is breathing down your neck, and he'll
probably get more centers off you than you'll take from me over the next
few turns. So, my plan is thus: I'll head west against Andy while you
turn north, and we can prevent EF from running the table. Otherwise,
they'll be at 10-11 each against your 10, and I think you'll be
hard-pressed to hold a line.
jason
Message from Turkey to Turkey
Andy's strategy is really making no sense to me.
France could care less if Russia takes me out - it will probably be EFR,
regardless. With the way England's rolling, he might take out Russia,
anyway. The only real consequence of his strategy is taking me out along
with him. Thank your dad, kids! Thanks, Dad!
jason
Message from Turkey to England
Keep it going!
Andy is doing his best to throw the game, but the more you advance in
the north, the more Russia has to consider moving his forces back there.
Right now, I just hope I can secure enough units to hold some kind of
stalemate line, although I suspect that will be tough.
jason
Message from Turkey to France
Looks like Andy is doing his best to punish you for your advance. I'm
hoping that EF pressure on the north will thwart that. The more you guys
push him back in the north, the less he'll be able to work with Andy in
the south.
jason
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
> Sorry again for the horrendous communication last season. The week got
> suddenly very busy in meetings and after-work commitments. Still, I'm glad
> we had the time earlier in the week to discuss the moves in such detail.
No problem it happens to all of us.
I am going to ask for an extension while I am on travel, as its pretty
important that we speak regularly, and I wont have great connectivity.
> Obviously I should have gone ahead and covered Sev, because then Arm would
> be perfectly safe. Not sure what your thinking is, but I was thinking Arm S
> Bul-Bla, Ser-Bul (Gre/Rum support). There's a decent chance of grabbing Bla
> with those moves.
Moreso, you CANNOT crack Turkey without an army on the back side...ie in
Armenia.
I agree....and I think we should do it. Send UKR - SEV now.
> I'm more worried about the north, where Ben is set up to convoy into Lvn or
> Pru. Perhaps I should have taken your advice and walked into Ber, though
> I'm not sure I could hold it if I did. As you say, I definitely need more
> armies there.
if you think he is going to convoy to LVN you need to take Berlin and
cover Munich. If not, Tyrolia needs to support Venice.
But I need to know ahead of time because it drastically affects my moves.
> I'm around a bit this weekend. I suspect Monday is going to be as hellish
> as the last couple of days, so hopefully I won't annoy you too much with my
> sporadic availability.
I worked 103 hours last week. And this week looks worse since I am
travelling the following week.
I understand.
Andy
Message from Italy to Germany
Greg,
Can I get an extension from 2/17 - 2/24
I will be travelling with limited access.
thanks
Andy
Message from Russia to France
Erik,
Well, it's an interesting call. I'm certainly worried about Ben, as it
sounds like you are. He's actually in a decent position to move against
both of us. Actually, even if you get a build I'm not sure that's enough to
hold out against him. With a build in Lon, he can force both MAO and Eng
really quickly.
To be completely frank, the problem with moving against Andy is that Andy
is not just nicely not bothering me in the Balkans, he's keeping Jason
focused west as well. If I attack Andy, he probably retreats to Tyl, then
attacks me in coordination with Jason (as they were doing just two turns
ago). Hmm. The more I look at it the more Ben's position looks really good
to me.
So other than (or in addition to) getting you a build in the south, what
can we do to really put some pressure on Ben in the north?
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
What I have so far is a request from France to move Tyl-Tri and Ser-Gre to
pick up a quick build and try to sneak Gre, while getting him builds in the
north. That would indicate that he's thinking of Tys-Rom, and I'd guess Tun
S Lyo-Tys to cut support for Ven. If *that's* the case, then Ven S Tyl-Pie
might be interesting.
Ben is a hard read -- especially hard because I haven't been communicating
with him much recently. I'll try to find out whether he plans to protect
Ber, since that drives the whole choice of defense, as you point out.
In the south, Jason is clearly suing for peace with me. His moves were
obviously meant to be non-threatening, and he even told me he wanted to
cooperate in advance. But since I was unavailable, and because his message
was poorly written (meaning, hard to understand) I think I can influence
his moves. All his press to me focuses on the EF threat. That might be an
indication he's just trying to point me elsewhere, but if he's really
worried about them, then he probably will not team up with France in the
short term, so a 3-strength attack on Ion is unlikely. I'll try to find out
more about his thinking if I can.
103 hours? Yuck. I don't count mine that carefully, but it was busy. In two
weeks it gets even more fun, as we have to move out of our house for 2-ish
weeks while we have some major work done. That probably means no network
access from home. Just what this game needs -- me even more unavailable. :(
I'll probably ask for an extension during that time, but see what I can do
to get orders in from the office before heading home.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Russia
Well, I'm pretty much an open book these days -- most of my thoughts are in
my presses. I think Ben really has excellent position, and may have a
better solo shot than I do at this point. Erik made a big mistake by
attacking Andy with ALL of his units. Ben moving to NAO and convoying to
Hol would be brutal, especially if I don't help Erik to a build.
I think my best shot at soloing remains other people getting pissed off.
I'll probably continue to press Turkey. I think one of two things will
happen in the north: EF will continue to cooperate, and Ben may even start
landing armies against me. In that case I may need to take centers from
Andy (agreed to by him or not) and help Erik. Or, Ben will attack Erik
(whether or not he attacks me) and I may be able to use that to get Erik's
help towards growth (e.g., Mun-Bur to support Erik may become necessary).
It's definitely interesting to hear Andy's and Tony's takes on the board.
I'm clearly much more disposed to hold back and wait than he is. I like to
wait and let other people get pissed off and look to help me rather than
forcing the issue, unless I know I have a clear upper hand (something that
probably works a lot better against lower ranked players). In this game I
think I've attacked or betrayed each of my neighbors before they did me
(excepting Jason's move to Arm in S01), but it appears I've still managed
to end up being the "best" friend each of them has by the end of their time
in the game. Unfortunately, that same slow pace may mean that I don't get
enough strength to hold my position.
The good news is that I'll be too busy to worry about it that much if
things do go bad for me. :)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
>I'm not going to spoil the surprise, Mr. Fat Cat JDPR. Look it up
>yourself, hot shot. ;o)
Hey, had a chance to look it back over. If Doug did the run just a month or
so earlier, I'dve been at 1688 (I soloe'd in my earliest-finishing VGFP
game, and was eliminated in the next two to knock off those 200 points).
Probably a good thing for my participation in future games that he didn't!
Also, I finally downloaded all of my mail and see that I missed your
message about Swe-Nwy with support. Sorry about that, though it probably
hurts me more than it does you (Nwy can still convoy to wherever Edi would
have been able to, but threatens me more). And as hinted, I'm not sure
whether you consider Mun/Sil to be "surrounding" Ber. From my point of
view, with Ber/Bal/Kie, I don't think it should. F Bal is quite nervous
making for me, especially with all those armies and fleets east of the Nth.
You wouldn't want to encourage me to help Erik pick up builds in the south,
would you? :)
For my part, as promised, I only have one army left in Scandinavia, and
I'll use it to protect StP. If you let Fin-StP succeed, then you can drop
all concern about me in Scandinavia. If I can try to dictate your moves,
I'd like to see Ska S Bal-Swe (so you know I'm not bouncing you),
Nwy-Nth-Hol, Nwg-NAO and Bar-Nwy. Kie can obviously support Nwy-Hol, but I
wouldn't expect you to tell me if you plan for it to. Completely secures
Scandinavia, and gives you a very strong position against Erik. While it
will take you two turns to actually hit Iberia, Erik will have no ability
to defend -- you'll be in MAO before he can get there. At that point, I
have every expectation that Andy will stop working with me (he's doing so
primarily to punish Erik at this point) and start trying to hold his
position. That should give you the time you need to set up for the other
side of a 2WD line, or even a solo shot of your own.
Let me know what you think.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to Italy
Andy,
>In the south, Jason is clearly suing for peace with me. His moves were
>obviously meant to be non-threatening, and he even told me he wanted to
>cooperate in advance. But since I was unavailable, and because his message
>was poorly written (meaning, hard to understand) I think I can influence
>his moves.
LOL! And then I write one just as confusing! I mean, he understood why I
made my attack despite him trying to sue for peace, so he's probably still
willing to cooperate (hence I can influence his moves).
--- Eric
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
It is marvelous to hear from you. I had quite despaired of anything but a RFE, based partly on your recent silence.
Yes, I would like to try for a 2WD, or, failing that, an English solo.
I will look over my options with your press in mind.
You are ordering FIN - STP sb MOS?
My concern about attacking France is, if you are too far advanced against Turkey, hmm. Anyway this fall I will still not be committed either way.
Ben
Message from England to Germany
Tony -
Curious you never wrote back - not like you.
What's going on? Is Turkey too weak for me to attack France, do you think?
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
> Right now, I just hope I can secure enough
> units to hold some kind of stalemate line,
> although I suspect that will be tough.
Good luck, my friend. For now, please do not order AEG - ION, though I
doubt you would.
In the long run, it will help your chances of survival - if France continues
to grow, you will serve no purpose in the endgame. Go ahead & try for BUL,
if you want.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
The Turkish centers are yours for the taking.
It would help me if your capture of them went *very* slowly, if you know
what I mean. Even took a backward step, in BUL, if you think it's safe.
The more room I have, the better for both of us, long term.
If you're interested, I could pass along a tip to Turkey, however you want
to set it up. If you're not, I completely understand - I think we're on the
same page here, just struggling to plod forward in a way that's not too
boring for the observers.
Ben
Message from England to England
The convoy to HOL could work nicely ("Well, I wasn't sure if you'd *ever*
take RUH"), and I could still force STP when necessary down the line, with
BER wrapped up tight. . .
The stab will have to be soon, sooner than I'm letting on to Russia, of
course - probably this coming year, with France having no builds & fully
engaged in the south. The question will be, can Andy & Jason hold off
Russia while Erik tries to suicide on me.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
Protect yourself from Erik this year. Get Russian support if possible -
tell me if you don't think that support is coming.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Protect yourself from Erik this year. Get Russian support if possible -
> tell me if you don't think that support is coming.
I dont think that support is coming.
Eric has told me what France is offering him, and to use his own words
from most of the begining of the game.
"Its a sweetheart deal that I couldnt really say no to."
Even though he says he will support me, I dont really believe him.
Andy
Message from Observer to Observer
I'm trying to get into Ben's head at the moment (always a dangerous thing,
before you know it he has you composing limericks), and thankfully his
regular 'journal entries' help on this front.
I think he is working on the principle that his solo hopes are best served
by keeping as many powers alive as possible. With Germany and Austria having
both gone down recently, I guess Ben doesn't want to see Italy and Turkey
disappearing quickly too, since (to his view, anyway) that is likely to
result in a 3way draw position. From a diplomatic point of view, I wouldn't
disagree - in general keeping more powers alive is more likely to assist a
solo attempt than killing them off (cf. Eric with Austria in this game, at
least to the stage where the Austrian units were no longer offering any
advantage.)
However, as so often is the case, it comes down to where you are getting the
18th SC from. As Greg mentions, Scandinavia is Ben's for the taking, and
similarly an effective stab on Erik could see him make considerable gains in
the France/Iberia region. But obtaining those two plus Germany still only
gets the 17 - ah, majestic Switzerland! - so, where is no. 18? The most
obvious options are Mos and Tun, with War another option. Ven is probably
beyond hope unless he gets lots of assistance by a minor eastern power.
So, let's consider Mos/War first. The obvious route there is the one Greg
has outlined - convoy the army to Lvn, and hammer Russia before he can get
forces north. Whilst it might be difficult to hold against a concerted
attack, if Erik is making progress in the Med, Ben can hope to be able to
stab effectively for a victory before the opposition can retake Mos and/or
War. The current position for a stab of France is quie nice, which is of
course why Ben is considering it, but provided he can ensure that Erik
doesn't build anything in Bre, that position could persist for some time,
with Erik using gains in the south to build more fleets to send into the
Med. (If I was Erik, I'd be trying to place a fleet somewhere like WMS or
Spa(sc) quite soon, as some form of fleet defence.)
What about Tun? This assumes that Ben progresses no further than StP in the
north and Berlin/Munich in the centre.
So consider the scenario where Ben stabs Erik soon, perhaps in the next
season. He still has the units to pick up Swe and StP, so that side of
things is fairly secure. What are the other implications? As Ben himself
says, Erik will in all likelihood suicide against him (or at least throw a
lot of weight against him, suicide may be too strong a word). So that means
fleets heading north (though probably not in time to save MAO from the
English navy). Don't expect to see that Russian army in Mun going anywhere,
unless the direction is west to 'help' Erik. (This is probably why Ben
wanted Erik to go to Ruhr so much, get the Russian units out of the western
equation for a while).
Ben can make good progress against France, picking up Bre, maybe Por and Spa
or similar quite possibly. And certainly it would give Andy a lifeline, he'd
either look to pressurise Erik himself, or look to eliminate Jason quickly
and line up on the Tunis stalemate position. (Maybe he'd see it as important
to let Erik defend himself, make sure Ben couldn't get quickly to Tunis).
So this first scenario looks like it might be tough for Ben to get to Tun -
not impossible, but tough, especially if Erik/Andy defend Tunis well.
What alternative might there be? Well, he could continue to roll the EF
alliance, pressurising Russia. Maybe he'd pick up Mos or War, maybe not, but
if Erik continued to push into the Med, much of the fleet opposition in the
Med could be removed, Andy and Jason being squeezed out. The question then
would be whether Ben could stab quickly enough and hard enough to have a
chance at getting to Tunis - still a tough call, but perhaps more possible
if the only fleets in opposition were to be Erik's.
So options for Tunis - stab now, facing a large number of fleets arraigned
against him in the Med (3 French, 3 Italian, plus the Turkish fleet); or
push further into Russia, hoping that Erik will eliminate some of the naval
forces in the Med, and then going for the massive stab on Erik for victory.
Anyway, I've rambled along for a while now, but my view equates to being
much the same as Greg's - if Ben is looking for a solo, he needs to plunge
the knife into the Russian heart now. That option still leaves him the
possibility of still being able to get to Tunis, but opens up all the
possibilities of Mos and War, and every extra centre that he can get in the
north is one less he has to take off Erik for victory.
I guess that was a pretty long-winded way of saying "I agree, Greg".
Alastair
Message from Germany to Italy
As far as I am concerned you can have the break but it isnt my call :-) you
sent your request to me.
I have forwarded it to the GM.
Message from Germany to England
Hi Ben, sorry mate had to leave the country unannounced. Just got back ;-)
Nothing sinister. But I see I have 103 mails. Inclyding one abandonment.
Gonna try sort that out. Get back to you soon.
Tony
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
Sorry I have been so quiet.
Busy and long weekend.
How are you approaching the north...
I know how I would do it, and in the past you have said that you will
gladly take tactical advice, I didnt know if that was still open since
the dynamics have changed...
As a sidenote...
Oh....Erik must really have it out for me...or he is just pissed at me
about other games...
have you ever heard of the backseat varient?
Message from Italy to Russia
> What I have so far is a request from France to move Tyl-Tri and Ser-Gre to
> pick up a quick build and try to sneak Gre, while getting him builds in the
> north. That would indicate that he's thinking of Tys-Rom, and I'd guess Tun
> S Lyo-Tys to cut support for Ven. If *that's* the case, then Ven S Tyl-Pie
> might be interesting.
No...if he is attacking from Piedmont I lose Venice and he bounces with
you in as he moves Mar - Pie
If you arent moving it to Munich, Tyrolia should support Venice.
> Ben is a hard read -- especially hard because I haven't been communicating
> with him much recently. I'll try to find out whether he plans to protect
> Ber, since that drives the whole choice of defense, as you point out.
Yes.
> In the south, Jason is clearly suing for peace with me. His moves were
> obviously meant to be non-threatening, and he even told me he wanted to
> cooperate in advance. But since I was unavailable, and because his message
> was poorly written (meaning, hard to understand) I think I can influence
> his moves. All his press to me focuses on the EF threat. That might be an
> indication he's just trying to point me elsewhere, but if he's really
> worried about them, then he probably will not team up with France in the
> short term, so a 3-strength attack on Ion is unlikely. I'll try to find out
> more about his thinking if I can.
I like the idea about getting to BLA and moving SER - BUL
but lets revisit it.
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> Sorry I have been so quiet.
It's fine, I think it's going around. The gallery must be annoyed at us.
> Busy and long weekend.
Mine's not over. . . Just got to work. ;-)
> How are you approaching the north...
Tough diplomatically - I'm contemplating convoying to HOL, as Erik has twice
sat in BEL instead of going to RUH.
> I know how I would do it, and in the past
> you have said that you will gladly take
> tactical advice, I didnt know if that was
> still open since the dynamics have changed...
I am *always* glad for advice.
> As a sidenote...
>
> Oh....Erik must really have it out for
> me...or he is just pissed at me about
> other games...
>
> have you ever heard of the backseat varient?
I laughed out loud when the players/coaches were revealed. I know *nothing*
about the performace of Italy in that game, except to say that as long as I
could remember, Italy had been (a) gone or (b) a non-factor. I didn't want
to write you about it until I'd actually looked it up.
Yes, I have heard of the backseat variant. ;-)
Right now I think Eric needs me to stab Erik more than he needs anything
else barring French intervention to get him into BER. So right now I have
something Eric wants, & my thinking is, use a springtime support for VEN as
leverage for my consideration of stabbing Erik. We'll see how it plays out.
But I can't have you collapse in a spray of glass if I attack Erik - how do
you see that playing out? Also, how do you see Jason fitting into that
equation?
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
> > Sorry I have been so quiet.
> It's fine, I think it's going around. The gallery must be annoyed at us.
>
They are.....but they are commentators...all the have is to be annoyed or
amused by us.
> > Busy and long weekend.
> Mine's not over. . . Just got to work. ;-)
I figured that...hence the mail.
> > How are you approaching the north...
> Tough diplomatically - I'm contemplating convoying to HOL, as Erik has twice
> sat in BEL instead of going to RUH.
Well...if you think that Erik is going to mess with you....
This is THE time to stab him.
He is 2 moves from the MAO and I can guarantee him no builds without
Eric's help and Eric has no reason to help him.
Yes...it eases off of Eric, but he isnt making headway in the north
ANYTIME soon. And if you can get Erik off of me, I can make the Russians
life a living hell.
NWG - NAO
NTH - ENG
BAR - NWY
NWY - SWE supported by SKA
KIE - HOL
BAL s BER
BER hold
The odds on him moving to Kiel are almost nothing, its his least likely
move on the board.
You get a build and are guaranteed at least one more in BRE. Especially if
you convoy the newly built army London there in spring and take the MAO in
the fall with NAO and ENG support.
> I am *always* glad for advice.
That is why I am giving it.
> > As a sidenote...
> >
> > Oh....Erik must really have it out for
> > me...or he is just pissed at me about
> > other games...
> >
> > have you ever heard of the backseat varient?
> I laughed out loud when the players/coaches were revealed. I know *nothing*
> about the performace of Italy in that game, except to say that as long as I
> could remember, Italy had been (a) gone or (b) a non-factor. I didn't want
> to write you about it until I'd actually looked it up.
Did you read my EOG??
>
> Right now I think Eric needs me to stab Erik more than he needs anything
> else barring French intervention to get him into BER.
But if you are attacking France, he will leave you alone. He wont even go
for Berlin....he has no reason to and I will make sure I convince him of
that.
So right now I have
> something Eric wants, & my thinking is, use a springtime support for VEN as
> leverage for my consideration of stabbing Erik.
I will work for that. You ask him to do the same.
We'll see how it plays out.
> But I can't have you collapse in a spray of glass if I attack Erik - how do
> you see that playing out?
Oh...if you do what I said above...I think we can work this.
Also, how do you see Jason fitting into that
> equation?
Jason is dead. I am hoping to get as much of him as I can, but he is
Eric's diversion while you kill Erik.
I would suggest that now is the time to strike.
Andy
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> > > Busy and long weekend.
> > Mine's not over. . . Just got to work. ;-)
>
> I figured that...hence the mail.
Yeah - on days I'm not working I have more steady access, unless I'm
sleeping.
> This is THE time to stab him.
This phase, last phase was tempting, it's always tempting; like I told you,
we should beat him like a drum.
> > I am *always* glad for advice.
>
> That is why I am giving it.
Could I make a reservation to play with you in my next game, too, please?
> Did you read my EOG??
I have not had the time/energy to push through the bkseat5 press - most has
been deleted. If I'd seen it was your eog, you better believe I'd have read
it. Can you shoot me a copy?
> Oh...if you do what I said above...I think
> we can work this.
Can you expand on how you will do this? I know it's important to *you* that
I believe you can hold off Eric, and I can *absolutely* be persuaded, but I
need to be persuaded.
> Jason is dead. I am hoping to get as much
> of him as I can, but he is Eric's diversion
> while you kill Erik.
Hmm - I will need armies - do you envision throwing an A PIE in Erik's
direction in the foreseeable future?
> I would suggest that now is the time to strike.
As the gallery knows - I've been chomping at the bit. Indeed, one
thoughtful member of the gallery told the whole VG - perhaps you had the
restraint not to read. Indeed I'd decided not to read it myself, until I
later got a press a day or two later from Eric suggesting he'd seen it &
read it. Tough choice, but I couldn't risk others having read it &
presumably seen my private thoughts & not being prepared to defend myself.
Ben
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
Ok, this summary is where my thoughts are right now. I think this covers &
pretty much replaces the last couple of notes I've sent you:
In order for me to go after France, which presumably you *want*, I will have
to move soon, if I am going to do it, so what I'm asking you to do this
phase will in all likelihood decide whether I take that step ever in this
game.
1. Order FIN - STP. You've already said you would. I would *prefer* it be
supported, but I won't ask you to tell me in advance.
2. Support VEN to hold. This is *the* *key*. If VEN falls to France then
forget it - it is EFR all the way. I will not be able to attack France, but
I will be able to build enough to make it impossible for him to attack me.
It will be boring with a capital B. I won't ask you to commit to me ahead
of time on this point - but if you don't do it, there will not be EF
conflict.
3. If you cough up BUL to Turkey it won't hurt. This one is not as
important as the other two.
Those are my thoughts right now.
You may have noticed by now - I will write bits and pieces of complete
thoughts - I worry if I wait until I have a cogent, articulable thought in
my brain, noone would ever hear from me. . .
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
I hope this is not too late -
I am writing Eric that I am *considering* attacking Erik but in all
likelihood it will never happen if he does not support you in VEN.
I think you would not tell him a stab may be as early as this phase, but I
write this note to discourage you, if you were planning on approaching him
that way.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Ben,
> > This is THE time to stab him.
> This phase, last phase was tempting, it's always tempting; like I told you,
> we should beat him like a drum.
I couldnt say it better.
> > > I am *always* glad for advice.
> > That is why I am giving it.
> Could I make a reservation to play with you in my next game, too,
please?
We can talk about that. But this far in advance that is meta-gaming and I
wont do it.
> > Did you read my EOG??
> I have not had the time/energy to push through the bkseat5 press - most has
> been deleted. If I'd seen it was your eog, you better believe I'd have read
> it. Can you shoot me a copy?
I will forward you a copy of the original and the followup...they are
short.
> > Oh...if you do what I said above...I think
> > we can work this.
> Can you expand on how you will do this? I know it's important to *you* that
> I believe you can hold off Eric, and I can *absolutely* be persuaded, but I
> need to be persuaded.
With the assumption that Eric supports me in Venice as he has promised.
VEN s ROM
ROM s VEN
NAP s ROM
ION - TYS
He cant take anything from me, he can force the ION if I dont use greece
to support it, but that just puts him farther from you.
Next spring, SKA - NTH, SWE - DEN and convoyed to BEL with HOL support.
> > Jason is dead. I am hoping to get as much
> > of him as I can, but he is Eric's diversion
> > while you kill Erik.
> Hmm - I will need armies - do you envision throwing an A PIE in Erik's
> direction in the foreseeable future?
Not a problem.
> > I would suggest that now is the time to strike.
> As the gallery knows - I've been chomping at the bit. Indeed, one
> thoughtful member of the gallery told the whole VG - perhaps you had the
> restraint not to read. Indeed I'd decided not to read it myself, until I
> later got a press a day or two later from Eric suggesting he'd seen it &
> read it. Tough choice, but I couldn't risk others having read it &
> presumably seen my private thoughts & not being prepared to defend myself.
>
I saw it and didnt read it.
Andy
Message from Italy to Russia
Ben...
> I hope this is not too late -
> I am writing Eric that I am *considering* attacking Erik but in all
> likelihood it will never happen if he does not support you in VEN.
>
This is excellent. I will tell him that he should support FIN - STP and
that will keep Sweden safe next year.
> I think you would not tell him a stab may be as early as this phase, but I
> write this note to discourage you, if you were planning on approaching him
> that way.
Not a chance, but its good to start thinking that way. Other people would
tell him.
Andy
Message from Italy to Russia
Well...I guess you know that I am talking to England, and that I am
trying to convince him to move on France.
I still think the move of Fin - Stp with support is the best move, just
in case he is lying to me.
Andy
Message from Italy to England
Ben...
This was my response to you.....that I accidently sent to Russia. I just
did it.....I want to shoot myself.
I can get Russia in line. You just stab the hell out of France, and I
will take care of it.
Ok.
> I hope this is not too late -
> I am writing Eric that I am *considering* attacking Erik but in all
> likelihood it will never happen if he does not support you in VEN.
This is excellent. I will tell him that he should support FIN - STP and
that will keep Sweden safe next year.
> I think you would not tell him a stab may be as early as this phase, but I
> write this note to discourage you, if you were planning on approaching him
> that way.
Not a chance, but its good to start thinking that way. Other people would
tell him.
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
>> Could I make a reservation to play with you in my next game, too,
>> please?
> We can talk about that. But this far in advance that is meta-gaming
> and I wont do it.
As much as I might actually like such a game - I was not serious. Still,
you were right to treat it seriously. . .
I will get to the rest of your notes after I read them. I wanted to get
this out post haste.
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
> This was my response to you.....that I accidently sent to Russia. I
> just did it.....I want to shoot myself.
It happens. I'm being tested by the Diplomacy Gods. I don't think it's too
bad - the information content is lower than you might have thought, the
instant after you pulled the trigger. . .
Read it again - I don't think it tells him much he didn't know already (e.g.
I'm considering attacking France, perhaps soon).
Incidentally, the reason I asked you not to tell him, is it would give him
reason to put France in VEN, which I don't want.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
> Read it again - I don't think it tells him much he didn't know already (e.g.
> I'm considering attacking France, perhaps soon).
I know and I have already sent him a followup note telling him that I was
serious about FIN and STP because I dont know if you are telling me the
truth.
> Incidentally, the reason I asked you not to tell him, is it would give him
> reason to put France in VEN, which I don't want.
Actually having me be alittle less pressured is a good thing for him. We
arent in a position to hurt each other. It would take me forever to get to
him right now.....3 turns from now when he is waist deep in Turkey...thats
a different story.
Andy
Message from England to England
Andy sent me his bkseat5 eog Pt. 2 off-Judge.
For those of you - like myself - not following bkseat5, this is the subject
eog, with Andy as the "piece pusher" and Erik as the advisor:
broadcast
From Italy's piece pusher....
> Italy / Eric D
> What the hell were you trying to do? Confuse your way to the solo? I
> don't recall ever getting anything from you that I could use to
> ameliorate the war that the Italian piece pusher started. So, it was
> a fight to the death.
I made a statement earlier about feeling abandoned by my advisor.
I would like to amend that....after fall of 01', I felt like the diplomacy
out of my corner was so weak and so inconsistant in its arrival and
quantity that he wanted plausible deniability at the end of the game.
> Piece Pushers:
> Italy / Andy -
> An unprovoked attack in Fall 01. And a failed one, no less. It had
> to be punished.
No argument at all....and if my advisor has just re-enforced all those
concerns you had about TRAde, I probably could have gotten out of it.
It sort of set the tone of the game for me, actually.
> Attack me, and I snot you. It wasn't that I really wanted to keep the
> attack going after spring 02, when you headed for France, but with
> Russia and Turkey being so chummy, the TRA was the only way to stay
> alive, and I had diplomatic justification for continuing to attack
> you.
As I said previously....I dont fault you at all, its what I would have
done, if you observed in bkseat4, I was Prop-Guy, and during the late
mid-game Tom Fleming did a great job of just continuing to talk about
how we didnt want to expand, just have some security while I took all the
Italian dots, in Turkey, on the boot.....everywhere. But I couldnt get
anyone else to bite, I was at 13 or 14 and knew that without one of them
fighting they would come down on me like a house of stone if I continued
my aggresive ways.
Fall 02, when I took Venice, and Turkey and I combined perfectly
> to get him into Ionian, just sealed the deal, as far as I was
> concerned. I wanted to get that Turkish fleet separated from the rest
> of his pieces without him getting a build.
>
> Why did you support France into Tunis in Spring '05? I understood the
> support for Naples in the Fall. (It was annoying, but understandable)
To be honest.....I dont remember.
take care
Andy
Message from England to England
The dawning of a new day - hope from Italy, a reasonable press from Russia.
Meanwhile I have my trophy in BER and STP under my thumb. A solo still
seems unlikely, but I feel better about it being worthwile attacking France.
And if I unload on France, I should reasonably expect fair and good tactical
advice from Andy for awhile. . .
Ben
Message from England to Italy
Andy -
If there's something urgent you would like see Turkey do, let me know.
Ben
Message from Italy to England
Since Russia has been so quiet for the last 24 hours...
The last thing he and I talked about was dislodging BLA.
But I am not sure how he would do it......
So...supporting BLA from ANK would be his best bet.
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric,
I think I have the English moving away from you. You will lose Sweden, but
we knew that already, I think that STP is safe, but if I were you I would
support FIN - STP just to be safe.
I also think he will support BER in place, so if you could confirm you are
supporting VEN from TYR for me i would very much appreciate it. At least
for one turn to see if the English are blowing smoke up my ass.
So...Can I count on your support.
You have my support from SER - BUL
Andy
Message from France to Russia
Eric:
I can certainly appreciate your desire to keep Andy around; in your
position, I'd do the same, and at least you're being honest with me.
Better to have him occupying Jason (and, while you obviously can't admit
this, me) then collpasing and leaving Jason and I with more centers.
Nevertheless, I really need a build to do anything against Ben, so even if
you could be so bold as to not lend support to Venice, I'd appreciate it.
Otherwise, things could start getting real stagnant real soon -- Ben and I
will both be holding the line and unable to move off of it.
I've been trying to build a fleet in Bre for years but unable to justify
it. Ben's going to get Sweden this turn, but his growth will slow after
that, and he's going to have to keep himself extended to deal with you
effectively. If I can get one build and reduce Italy enough to pull other
fleets away from down South, maybe I can finally make a grab for Hol /
Lon.
Otherwise, I'd say your best bet is to defend St. Petersburg and deal with
Turkey sooner rather than later.
Erik
Message from France to England
Ben:
So given that you're relatively relaxed, what do you think about moves for
this turn? I guess we don't need a whole lot of coordination. I've been
chatting with Eric, trying to convince him to focus on Turkey, not support
Ven, and imply some lingering dischored between us.
Erik
Message from France to Turkey
Yes, I kind of figured Andy would come charging out. In any case, I'm sorry
that it had the net effect of losing you Bulgaria. At this point, I'd
recommend one of two things:
1.) Use everything to try to get Bulgaria back (he could slip up or assume
you've given up on it)
2.) Support Arm or Ukr to Sev, under the assumption that he might try to
bounce himself to leave that space open for a build (which he could get if
he grabbed Trieste).
Erik
Message from France to England
It's a longshot, but can you support Bur - Mun just in case?
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> So given that you're relatively relaxed, what do you think about moves for
> this turn? I guess we don't need a whole lot of coordination. I've been
> chatting with Eric, trying to convince him to focus on Turkey, not support
> Ven, and imply some lingering dischored between us.
Hm. I don't suppose Eric dropped any clues about STP - as you said, a
guessing game.
I'd been planning some kind of guess for STP; it's only a matter of time,
if I guess wrong.
What are you hearing from Eric about VEN? He claims he's not angry at me &
is pleasant enough in his press - I could write him about it. I won't
unless I hear from you.
Sorry I hadn't written more - I was working all weekend & hadn't given my
moves much thought.
I decided not to mention RUH in this press, because if I did, I'd be
beating a dead horse; no doubt you are as aware as I am that you need to
*go there* finally. So I'm not mentioning it in this press.
Ben
Message from England to France
> It's a longshot but can you support Bur - Mun just in case?
Sure.
Ben
Message from France to England
> Hm. I don't suppose Eric dropped any clues about STP - as you said, a
> guessing game.
Nothing. Eric's been very good about keeping us all in the dark this game
without being offensive ("no, I won't tell you anything about my moves,
jerk") about it. He was at least honest enough to tell me that he'll be
using Andy for everything he's worth. This means he may not attack
Trieste, which may mean no build for Russia. Or maybe he didn't want to
give me a tool to bait Andy into reconsidering his planned suicide.
As I said, I think Nwy - StP with support from Barents is the best plan. If
he bounces you, it's because he ordered some combination of Fin / Mos to
StP with support from the other, and that means Moscow doesn't move to
Livonia. As long as Ukr doesn't move to War, we'll have more time to shore
up the Mun / Ber line.
> What are you hearing from Eric about VEN? He claims he's not angry at
> me &
> is pleasant enough in his press - I could write him about it. I won't
> unless I hear from you.
Yes, he's always pleasant. Nothing specific to Venice, though I haven't
heard back from my last plea to let me take it (the justification being
that I need a build in Bre to defend against you).
I told Jason he should either try to take Bulgaria back or else support Ukr
or Arm into Sev, given that Eric might try to self-bounce there to leave
it open for a build.
>
> I decided not to mention RUH in this press, because if I did, I'd be
> beating a dead horse; no doubt you are as aware as I am that you need to
> *go there* finally. So I'm not mentioning it in this press.
Thank you for not mentioning it. I am indeed aware, but if you had reminded
me, I might have gotten paranoid and decided you were up to something.
Erik
Message from England to France
Erik -
> He was at least honest enough to tell me that he'll be
> using Andy for everything he's worth.
This means to me, he will be supporting VEN so you can fight Italy while he
extinguishes Turkey.
> As I said, I think Nwy - StP with support from Barents is the best plan.
If
> he bounces you, it's because he ordered some combination of Fin / Mos to
> StP with support from the other, and that means Moscow doesn't move to
> Livonia. As long as Ukr doesn't move to War, we'll have more time to shore
> up the Mun / Ber line.
I was leaning toward the supported attack on STP. It can't hurt.
> > What are you hearing from Eric about VEN? He claims he's not angry at
> > me &
> > is pleasant enough in his press - I could write him about it. I won't
> > unless I hear from you.
>
> Yes, he's always pleasant. Nothing specific to Venice, though I haven't
> heard back from my last plea to let me take it (the justification being
> that I need a build in Bre to defend against you).
Ok, I'll just keep quiet.
> I told Jason he should either try to take Bulgaria back or else support
Ukr
> or Arm into Sev, given that Eric might try to self-bounce there to leave
> it open for a build.
Or use UKR to cover SEV while reclaiming BLA.
> > I decided not to mention RUH in this press, because if I did, I'd be
> > beating a dead horse; no doubt you are as aware as I am that you need to
> > *go there* finally. So I'm not mentioning it in this press.
>
> Thank you for not mentioning it. I am indeed aware, but if you had
reminded
> me, I might have gotten paranoid and decided you were up to something.
Hm. It's for the best that I didn't say anything then.
Ben
Message from England to Turkey
Jason -
I have third hand information that Russia will be attacking BLA, which
makes a lot of sense to me. It's probably what I would do.
So if you're guessing, consider guessing that.
Ben
Message from Turkey to England
Gotcha, thanks for the info.
jason
Message from Master to all
Players,
I'm extending the deadline due to a player's request.
Greg, GM
C2
Message from Germany to all
> I'm extending the deadline due to a player's request.>
This wasn't me. The last request I made was to have
the game reset to S1901M and it was refused.
I therefor no longer submit requests ;-)
Message from Italy to Russia
Eric...
Are you even going to talk to me at this point.
Andy
Message from Russia to Italy
> [paraphrase] Are you even going to talk to me this turn?
It doesn't look like it, does it? :(
I'm assuming that the deadline did get extended -- I don't see the
confirmation of a deadline change, nor a message that I'm late. Just Greg's
message that he was going to, so I assume I'm not late.
Just like last season, I dropped off the face of the earth.
Anyway, in skimming my mailbox for c2-related messages, I don't see anything
that would cause me to change what we were discussing. I'm entering orders to
support Ven, and the whole Bul-Bla, Ser-Bul move set we discussed earlier.
Let me know if there's a reason not to do so. I'll probably also order a "for
show" attack on Ber, while backing off to defend StP. I'm hoping that Ben
does go after Erik, but I'm not sure if it was Erik with a K or Eric with a C
that he was referring to in his message to you. :)
Again, apologies for the delay. Orders will be in shortly after sending this
message.
--- Eric
Message from Russia to England
Ben,
Now I'm the one that no one hears from until the last minute. :( The
extension was at my request, as no doubt guessed. I sent in the request
Monday, didn't get a chance to see if it was granted until this AM.
I'm rushing to get something out as I put in orders. From what I see from the
posts of yours I've skimmed, we're on the same page -- especially if you
actually attack Erik. :)
<Insert clever banter here.> :)
--- Eric
Message from Russia to France
Hey Erik,
I'm way behind on press -- the extension is on my behalf.
I've only had a chance to scan over the press, so I hope I'm not missing
anything. I think for this season I need to keep Andy happy. Next year I
don't see any reason why I can't jump him, but even going down two, if he and
Jason combine, I'm not seeing how I can hold any line, north or south.
I may well be overlooking something, as this assessment comes from about 2
minutes of scanning the board.
Sorry to be both so terse and so unhelpful.
--- Eric
Message from France to Russia
> I'm way behind on press -- the extension is on my behalf.
Hey, I understand. Believe me.
> I've only had a chance to scan over the press, so I hope I'm not missing
> anything. I think for this season I need to keep Andy happy. Next year I
> don't see any reason why I can't jump him, but even going down two, if
> he and
> Jason combine, I'm not seeing how I can hold any line, north or south.
>
I'm not asking you to jump him. I'm just asking you to let me jump him, in
Venice. All you have to do is use Tyrolia for something, anything, other
than supporting Venice. He's going to do your bidding regardless; he's too
hell-bent on proving a point to me to do otherwise. Letting me take Venice
won't cost you anything, and will give me a better shot at dealing with
Ben when the time comes.
Erik
Message from Italy to Russia
> It doesn't look like it, does it? :(
I just call them like I see them.
> I'm assuming that the deadline did get extended -- I don't see the
> confirmation of a deadline change, nor a message that I'm late. Just Greg's
> message that he was going to, so I assume I'm not late.
it did.
> Anyway, in skimming my mailbox for c2-related messages, I don't see anything
> that would cause me to change what we were discussing. I'm entering orders to
> support Ven, and the whole Bul-Bla, Ser-Bul move set we discussed earlier.
> Let me know if there's a reason not to do so. I'll probably also order a "for
> show" attack on Ber, while backing off to defend StP. I'm hoping that Ben
> does go after Erik, but I'm not sure if it was Erik with a K or Eric with a C
> that he was referring to in his message to you. :)
>
I am hoping I did a decent convincing job...but who knows...
Andy
Message from England to Russia
Eric -
My computer's been in the shop a day and a half - the timing of your
extension request was perfect.
> we're on the same page -- especially if you
> actually attack Erik. :)
If VEN falls to Erik, forget it. I hope you are giving the support. If you
are inclined permit the fall of VEN, let me know, so I can try harder to
persuade you.
> <Insert clever banter here.> :)
<Insert clever response.>
Ben
Message from England to all
Greetings all.
My computer's been at the shop for two days. I thought I'd be able to get
my orders in tonight at work but I haven't been able to do it yet. I will
take care of it in a few hours but it will surely be after the deadline.
I will gladly consider any correspondence I get *before* the deadline.
Mea culpa.
Ben
England: Fleet Baltic Sea SUPPORT Fleet Berlin
England: Fleet Barents Sea → Norway
England: Fleet Berlin HOLD
England: Army Kiel → Holland
England: Fleet North Sea → English Channel
England: Army Norway → Sweden
England: Fleet Norwegian Sea → North Atlantic Ocean
England: Fleet Skagerrak SUPPORT Army Norway → Sweden
France: Army Belgium → Ruhr
France: Army Burgundy → Munich (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Gulf of Lyon SUPPORT Army Tuscany
France: Army Piedmont → Venice (*bounce*)
France: Fleet Tunis → Ionian Sea
France: Army Tuscany SUPPORT Army Piedmont → Venice
France: Fleet Tyrrhenian Sea SUPPORT Fleet Tunis → Ionian Sea
Italy: Fleet Greece SUPPORT Russian Army Serbia → Bulgaria
Italy: Fleet Ionian Sea → Tunis (*bounce, dislodged*)
Italy: Fleet Naples SUPPORT Army Rome
Italy: Army Rome SUPPORT Army Venice
Italy: Army Venice SUPPORT Army Rome (*cut*)
Russia: Fleet Armenia SUPPORT Fleet Bulgaria (east coast) → Black Sea
Russia: Fleet Bulgaria (east coast) → Black Sea (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Finland → St Petersburg
Russia: Army Moscow SUPPORT Army Finland → St Petersburg
Russia: Army Munich → Berlin (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Rumania SUPPORT Army Serbia → Bulgaria
Russia: Army Serbia → Bulgaria (*bounce*)
Russia: Army Silesia SUPPORT Army Munich → Berlin
Russia: Army Tyrolia SUPPORT Italian Army Venice
Russia: Army Ukraine → Sevastopol
Turkey: Fleet Aegean Sea SUPPORT Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Turkey: Fleet Ankara SUPPORT Fleet Black Sea
Turkey: Fleet Black Sea SUPPORT Army Constantinople → Bulgaria
Turkey: Army Constantinople → Bulgaria (*bounce*)
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